Figure that has to be a key comment, with the Rate of Fire increasing its got to be a must to reduce the size, as well as the mineral requirements for building them. It shouldnt become more expensive (albeit slightly) to kill a target as a result of these changes, it should remain identical.

these changes with the new typhoon... cruise nano phoon anyone?
the new bonus of the phoon sure helps with the dmg application.
maybe not as a main doctrine but a complementary wing?

pfbt, do you care to back up that assertion, at all, in any way? Who ever promised you that your ammo costs would never go up?

Besides, with a **25% damage buff** your isk/damage costs are going to go _down_ substatially anyway

Seems like a very big buff and a significant step towards making cruises viable weapons outside of L4 missions

I do already have some concerns over the relative strength of the turtle-tanking Golem teams that have been used very frequently in the past alliance tournaments and the SCL, but if we can see people start to use fleet comps like ravens or navy scorpions in "real EVE" the benefits far outweigh a change in the AT meta

The most flown T3 is the Loki, followed by Proteus > Legion > Tengu.

The most flown BC is the Naga, the most flown combat BC is the Cane.

Wat

If you could notice I spoke of of money making and PVE. Those ways you cover loses not PVP itself. Yes, loki and proteus are very liked but Tengu, gives superior range, and very good dps to any NPC type. Yes it not perfect to every but really good.

There is WAY more to PVE than Level 4 missions and blasters are far from useless for PVE. Likewise, while these missiles will be most likely used for PVE activity, they are finally not totally laughable for PVP.

Capless weapons system with decent damage... Isn't the Geddon getting missile slots? Not to mention the Typhoon, Raven, Navy Scorpion, and Rattlesnake.

Yeah, I think that when all is said and done the Typhoon is the main ship that will leverage Cruise missiles the best. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, is done to make Torps more viable on the Raven (and Geddon).

Its true that PVE is easier to be balanced. But seeing these changes that take place I am afraid that PVE balance is forgotten. And yes, missiles do need buff in PVP.

Geddon will not be a missile boat, yes it gets launcher slots but the main damage system will be drones. You do not get enough bonuses nor slots to make it missile boat. Typhoon perhaps.. Rest are caldari boats that don't count.

right now i can not image a situation where the raven will be hands down better than the phoon. In PvP that is.
with the 5th mid slot you even can tank the phoon on shield. maybe raven can have a bigger buffer but phoon is just so much smaller and agile. way better for long range fighting.
Torps don't need much to be "fixed" maybe a little help with application of oomph and they get scary. could make the phoon way overpowered very quickly.

Terrible change. Can't hit anything with cruise missiles before and now it's even harder.

ffs

So wait, buffing cruises and slightly changing them so they don't become anti-frigate death machines in the process makes them terrible?

not sure what missiles you using for these numbers. but cn missiles have a base of 345, fury 420, precision 300.
granted its been a good year since I sat in or even looked at a raven with out thinking its gonna die fast, so please go slowly for me.

Each missile had a maximum engine range of about four hundred thousand kilometers, after which its main thrusters would exhaust the onboard fuel. Once that happened the missile would continue on its last trajectory until it ranged in on its target. If it survived to reach tactical range, its tactical thrusters would attempt to make adjustments in order to get as close as possible to an evading enemy before detonating.

These changes look extremely promising, but I have to confess that my excitement level spiked high enough that it rang the "may be OP" bell in my head.

-Liang

So it's not just me. I was mooting that the 15% mentioned in other threads risked being OTT (in PvE).

30%....on a properly fit CNR is going to be nothing short of hilarious.


I'm not sure it enough for PvP, but certainly for PvE the raven pilots are going to be laughing their way to the bank.

Edit: Don't get me wrong I like it but....damnit, it's a BIG boost.

I suppose to compensate they could take away your drone bay.

ok seems cruise are now fixed (though firewall still seems to be a problem)

now for torps...

i am thinking instead of velocity they need more flight time

as they should not be able to catch up with faster ships...

also they need thier explosion radius reduced and velocity increased so that they can hit ships bc and up...

and then cuss you just boosted torps you need to reduce the bonus on stleath bombers or else they would be uber op.

Done bay is really good for pushing EFT warrior numbers up

We're not going to ignore the effect this has on the AT meta, don't worry.

Please don't balance the game around the artificial AT environment, the AT rules can be adjusted to control the AT.

I was thinking more about the forum comedy that would generate.

"Great, now my Raven rocks in missions... unless there are frigates and cruisers... which eat me alive and there isn't a thing I can do about them."