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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |

Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
374
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 03:51:00 -
[121] - Quote
I personally think bumping mechanic was designed for different purpose than ganking freighters or bumping scrubs of a station they play in(very useful btw).
I watched many times freight/orca get bumped to oblivion just for fun of some ppl passing by... to me it looked like harassment right there from that pilot perspective at least and fun from those scrubs perspective.
Now in this non ganking scenario pilot is simply trying to warp of while bunch of dudes are preventing him to do that by numbers and no risk to them using collision mechanic(that is straight out insult to any space simulation) as a way to accomplish what they want.
Exploit? of course it is hard to fix i assume
Also if CCP isn't doing anything about it it doesn't mean it isn't exploit ,and is it "broken" gameplay is only one of factors included in decision.
So yeah tough luck freighters are game liked it or not rightly or not. http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KTjFEt6.jpg I dont always fly stabber but when i do...
|

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15325
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 04:04:00 -
[122] - Quote
Mina Sebiestar wrote:Also if CCP isn't doing anything about it it doesn't mean it isn't exploit True enough. Devs stating outright that it isn't an exploit, on the other hand, means it isn't an exploit.
GǪoh, and the code to GǣfixGǥ this non-issue already exists in the game. So no, it wouldn't be particularly hard.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |

Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
94
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 04:12:00 -
[123] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Diomedes Calypso wrote:I'm also unclear.. if he does nothing, when he eventually gets attacked concord will kill the attackers even if the attackers kill him first .. right?
Does the bumping just give more time to bring in more firepower from other systems to make sure the job gets done? The bumping serves two purposes. The most important one is that it creates a controlled environment where the gankers can delay and monitor the CONCORD response. You shoot the target once as he exits gate cloak to give him a PvP timer, which ensures that the ship will stay in space for another 15 minutes, no matter what, so logging off no longer saves the victim. This is obviously a criminal act so CONCORD shows up and kills the flagging alt. To counter this, you take advantage of the 15 minute timer to use a neutral alt (or two) to bump the victim at last 150km away from where CONCORD is sitting. The bumping both ensures that the victim can't just warp off willy-nilly, and that the victim is out of reach from immediate CONCORD response. Being this far away causes the CONCORD mechanics to consider the target (and, more importantly, the awaiting gankers) GÇ£out of rangeGÇ¥ for the purpose of responding to their actions, which in turn yields the same effect as delaying CONCORD by spawning them somewhere else in the system. When responding to a crime that's this far away, the CONCORD ships first have to despawn from the first crime scene before they can show up at a new one, which delays the response by half a dozen seconds or so. You sacrifice the loss of a newbship with civvy guns for being able to execute the gank with maybe 20GÇô50% fewer actual attack ships. You can also keep a close eye on CONCORD while doing all of this, which means you have more control over the timers. The second benefit is that the gank now happens maybe 200km off the gate, rather than 15km away from it. As a result, loot thieves will not get as much of a chance to get to the goods, and white knights stand less of a chance counter-killing the looting ships (which will go suspect in the process). If it's a freighter gank, you're likely to need a freighter to loot the wreck, and you definitely want to keep those away from the normal traffic lanes when they go blinky.
Thanks.
I had no idea that there weren't Infinite concord guys or that you could divert them causing a fracas elsewhere in the system! That's kind of a cool .. less "computer spawn" concept. (although given the huge number of real players ready to "hot drop" into any big battle anywhere in EVE , perhaps a bit underpowered compared to some alliances).
I think all the bouncing makes sense .
How safe "high sec" should be is entirely CCP's creative discretion. It is a war game..... just safer and less safe places that require different sorts of steps players should take to _minimize_ not eliminate risk. Like whether or not you get mugged in NYC has large parts precaution, some parts bad luck so it is in EVE.
So, if I read the situation right, a pilot should work hard enough at it to delay and make the gankers keep doing a good job at it. Then might call in alts and corp mates to make the whole thing less fun for the gankers.
Would jettisoning a can every time the timer is up help give the other would be looters a place to warp to near you?
How about getting and alt in a noob ship to attack the gankers and bring concord in. ?
Would having concord right next to you like that help obstruct the bumping?
It sounds like its worth thinking about a possible response that could muddle things up a bit and give a greater chance to gloriously hang on from what looked like certain death.
( IF (if!) they wanted to make it safer while still getting rid of the lame logofski tactics.. a lame part in 'heroic' battles ... They could let player purchase a "road-side assistance" program... especially frieghters. You call the tow truck ...give them a Tag in payment and Concord towing rushes you off to the nearest service station safefly...
... of course.. like any towing service you'd need to wait for the driver to show up. Gankers could still have 5 to 10 minutes to get their job done or not. Of course, the towing service would only be for industrial ships.. war ships would be presumed to be big enough boys and be viewed as expendable in motion or something.)
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Cannibal Kane
Temple of Kane
1956
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 06:25:00 -
[124] - Quote
Something completely unrelated.
1998 called. They want their computer back.. or whatever machine was used to record that vid on. My god man... do people play on machines that slow? "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. -áHe flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. -áHis hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. -áIt was truly majestic. -áAnd while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off.-áBecause I am like that." --áNEONOVUS |

Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
335
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 06:33:00 -
[125] - Quote
Mina Sebiestar wrote:I personally think bumping mechanic was designed for different purpose than ganking freighters or bumping scrubs of a station they play in(very useful btw).
It wasn't designed by the devs. It's gameplay that players figured out. It's left into the game for interest, but also because it ties into annoying mechanics that is difficult to fix with Havok physics (I hate it, things bounce all over. Items on shelves bounce off just walking past deal [seen in F.E.A.R. and even Oblivion, for example]). "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15326
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 06:38:00 -
[126] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:It wasn't designed by the devs. It's gameplay that players figured out. Bumping was very much designed by the devs. Bumping for the explicit purpose of moving people out of the way and/or keep them from aligning were just great side-effects of that basic tool, and since they didn't break the design, they were incorporated as a legitimate part of it to the point where they explicitly are not exploits.
Oh, and EVE does not use Havok physics so it's not tied into that or difficult to fix because of it. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |

Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
335
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 07:03:00 -
[127] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Bumping was very much designed by the devs..
No it wasn't. That's player made.
Much like CCP changing ship names to jive with what players called them.
It's a tactic left in the game for interest, but not specifically designed by devs themselves, just like with ship names. They create it, and players find the exploits and use it.
It's like the concept of ninjaing in WoW. Blizzard doesn't see ninjaing as what players see it (they'll even put the term in parentheses as it's not an internal term). Players do though and react to it that way independent of Blizzard. Same things happen with CCP, they make things and view things differently than players do. How players use the environment depends on how it effects the game itself. The ban on warp to 0 was Blizzard closing a loophole they felt damaged gameplay and fixed it. Bumping in itself is seen as a mechanic that evolved from the game physics alone. It's left in the game as something interesting to do.
But it's still a exploit.
You're fighting the wrong thing, Tippia. The red meat isn't me, it's you trained to attack anything that threatens your comfort zone. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
|

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15328
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 07:13:00 -
[128] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:No it wasn't. That's player made. GǪwhich is how the devs designed the game. They designed bumping. The players took that tool and started hammering away at the nails with it, as intended. Since no unwanted effects or exploits arose, it was all working as intended and as designed.
Quote:It's a tactic left in the game for interest, but not specifically designed by devs themselves, just like with ship names. They create it, and players find the exploits and use it. GǪexcept that they're not exploits, and that they're not GÇ£left in the gameGÇ¥ but part of a concept built around providing a toolset rather than a ruleset. That's the root of your problem GÇö you are stuck in a design school based around rules. EVE is not that kind of game.
Quote:But it's still a exploit. Nope. So sayeth the devs, and they are the only ones who can say whether it is one or not. And their answer is GÇ£notGÇ¥ GÇö explicitly GÇ£notGÇ¥, so not even implicitly by leaving it unmentioned or unregulated.
You can keep repeating your quaint lie to yourself as often as you like, but it doesn't change this simple fact. You are of course free to reject this reality and substitute your own, but that road only really leads to disappointment and medication. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |

KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
379
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 07:35:00 -
[129] - Quote
Bumping to avoid gate guns is an exploit.
CCP Punkturis-á "I want to get in on the goodposter circle jerk!"
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Liafcipe9000
Smeghead Empire
6805
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 07:47:00 -
[130] - Quote
because I got high You may gain the knowledge, but you will lose your belief, with all its mystery and comfort. If there was proof, absolute and certain, there is an afterlife, why not quit this life, and be done with it? Ponder about these things all your life, and you're a philosopher. Compress these ponderings into a couple of pages, and you'll go mad. |

Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
335
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 07:52:00 -
[131] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Quote:The red meat isn't me, it's you trained to attack anything that threatens your comfort zone. If by my GÇ£comfort zoneGÇ¥ you mean reality, then yes GÇö I do indeed attack people who spout counter-factual nonsense. That means that until you start accepting reality for what it is, you are very much my target. All you have to do to avoid it is to accept facts as they are and not make up your own.
No, it's your pet interests in the game. You're protecting your comfort zone. That's why you zeroed in on this issue. It concerns you (and/or your special interests).
I don't have any special interests (I don't represent any special interest, but to improve gaming itself...as I'm a consumer and want the best bang for the buck). I didn't descend on EvE to make it WoW, for example. I explain it by using WoW examples as the industry watches Blizzard for ease to explain things.
You're fighting a ghost of your own fears (and it's not me!). "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
|

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15329
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 08:02:00 -
[132] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:No, it's your pet interests in the game. What? Invention? What does it have to do with bumping and ganking? You're not making any sense.
So no. I'm not protecting my comfort zone. I'm protecting facts from being mixed up with the kind of counter-factual nonsense that you keep inventing. For instance, you are desperately trying failing to change the simple fact that bumping is not an exploit, GÇö a fact that has been clearly, explicitly, and definitely stated by the devs.
When you try to muddy the reality of this fact, you harm the entire community. This is bad of you. I will keep beating on you for it.
Quote:I don't have any special interests GǪaside from continually suggesting that it be made worse by replicating gameplay in a way that has never been done successfully, rather than continue down its current road to success.
Quote:I explain it by using WoW examples as the industry watches Blizzard for ease to explain things. GǪand you really need to stop doing that since WoW doesn't exemplify or explain anything that goes on in EVE since they're two completely different games. It only ever manages to illustrate that you don't really understand how EVE works. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |

Thar Saal
Sorry About Your Face Catastrophic Uprising
26
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 08:02:00 -
[133] - Quote
And clicking on this thread becomes worth it. |

Azrael Dinn
The 20th Legion Mildly Sober
139
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 08:03:00 -
[134] - Quote
I always wondered why I started to spoke against ganking and now I remember.
CCP please add more protection to high sec. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15329
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 08:04:00 -
[135] - Quote
Azrael Dinn wrote:I always wondered why I started to spoke against ganking and now I remember.
CCP please add more protection to high sec. Why should they? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |

Epikurus
New Eden Advanced Development
5
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 08:20:00 -
[136] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Diomedes Calypso wrote:I'm also unclear.. if he does nothing, when he eventually gets attacked concord will kill the attackers even if the attackers kill him first .. right?
Does the bumping just give more time to bring in more firepower from other systems to make sure the job gets done? The bumping serves two purposes. The most important one is that it creates a controlled environment where the gankers can delay and monitor the CONCORD response. You shoot the target once as he exits gate cloak to give him a PvP timer, which ensures that the ship will stay in space for another 15 minutes, no matter what, so logging off no longer saves the victim. This is obviously a criminal act so CONCORD shows up and kills the flagging alt. To counter this, you take advantage of the 15 minute timer to use a neutral alt (or two) to bump the victim at last 150km away from where CONCORD is sitting. The bumping both ensures that the victim can't just warp off willy-nilly, and that the victim is out of reach from immediate CONCORD response. Being this far away causes the CONCORD mechanics to consider the target (and, more importantly, the awaiting gankers) GÇ£out of rangeGÇ¥ for the purpose of responding to their actions, which in turn yields the same effect as delaying CONCORD by spawning them somewhere else in the system. When responding to a crime that's this far away, the CONCORD ships first have to despawn from the first crime scene before they can show up at a new one, which delays the response by half a dozen seconds or so. You sacrifice the loss of a newbship with civvy guns for being able to execute the gank with maybe 20GÇô50% fewer actual attack ships. You can also keep a close eye on CONCORD while doing all of this, which means you have more control over the timers. The second benefit is that the gank now happens maybe 200km off the gate, rather than 15km away from it. As a result, loot thieves will not get as much of a chance to get to the goods, and white knights stand less of a chance counter-killing the looting ships (which will go suspect in the process). If it's a freighter gank, you're likely to need a freighter to loot the wreck, and you definitely want to keep those away from the normal traffic lanes when they go blinky.
I'm not familiar with the mechanics of this but the big question seems to be whether there is any effective counter. Is there anything at all that a solo freighter pilot can do in this situation to avoid being killed or is death a foregone conclusion the moment the attack is initiated? |

Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
354
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 08:30:00 -
[137] - Quote
Quote:I'm not familiar with the mechanics of this but the big question seems to be whether there is any effective counter. Is there anything at all that a solo freighter pilot can do in this situation to avoid being killed or is death a foregone conclusion the moment the attack is initiated?
Not being afk and not auto piloting helps. Much harder to get you then.
And not carrying enough in your cargohold that it makes you attractive to gank. I wouldn't go above 1.5b, that seems to be the magic number. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15329
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 08:37:00 -
[138] - Quote
Epikurus wrote:I'm not familiar with the mechanics of this but the big question seems to be whether there is any effective counter. Is there anything at all that a solo freighter pilot can do in this situation to avoid being killed or is death a foregone conclusion the moment the attack is initiated? If it's executed flawlessly and without outside interruption, the victim is pretty much dead, as he should be. As illustrated, it's a fairly complex set of actions that need to be taken in a co-ordinated fashion between a number of people GÇö as with most such things, a single player's main option is to try to not find himself in such a situation to begin with. With freighters, in particular, this is best done by not being a worth-while target.
There are more direct counters; most of them include having support in some form such as scouts, counter-ganks, web-warpers, gang boosts (some implants may be a soloist variation here), logistics, etc. For some reason, the most slow-turning hunk of junk allowed in highsec, flown solo, has problems dealing with a co-ordinated, multi-tiered, multi-prong attack from a dozen playersGǪ fancy that.  GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
52
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 08:39:00 -
[139] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Not being afk and not auto piloting helps. Much harder to get you then.
Bumping a freighter while they're aligning for next warp is trivial. |

Epikurus
New Eden Advanced Development
5
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 08:43:00 -
[140] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Epikurus wrote:I'm not familiar with the mechanics of this but the big question seems to be whether there is any effective counter. Is there anything at all that a solo freighter pilot can do in this situation to avoid being killed or is death a foregone conclusion the moment the attack is initiated? If it's executed flawlessly and without outside interruption, the victim is pretty much dead, as he should be. As illustrated, it's a fairly complex set of actions that need to be taken in a co-ordinated fashion between a number of people GÇö as with most such things, a single player's main option is to try to not find himself in such a situation to begin with. With freighters, in particular, this is best done by not being a worth-while target.
Well, that does seem broken. It doesn't matter if it takes a fairly complex set of coordinated actions to pull off, if there is literally nothing one can do once picked for death, and if that death can be caused at almost no cost to the attackers, then there is a problem. Would even warping to zero not help the freighter pilot here? |

Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
354
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 08:44:00 -
[141] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Not being afk and not auto piloting helps. Much harder to get you then. Bumping a freighter while they're aligning for next warp is trivial.
Not as easy as you think, no. It's pretty tricky, but if pulled off correctly, then they basically got all their ducks in a row, so yeah, they deserve the kill.
And if we want to depart from the whole "solo" nonsense, if you double web a freighter, they align MUCH faster.
Also, use an Orca because it has better tank, for small(er) m3 amounts. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |

Maika Mabata
State War Academy Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 08:48:00 -
[142] - Quote
You do know that crossposting the same thing over and over is forbidden in forum rules. Time to report all of your whining threads.
Bumping is allowed, deal with it. |

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
52
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 08:54:00 -
[143] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:S Byerley wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Not being afk and not auto piloting helps. Much harder to get you then. Bumping a freighter while they're aligning for next warp is trivial. Not as easy as you think, no. It's pretty tricky, but if pulled off correctly, then they basically got all their ducks in a row, so yeah, they deserve the kill. And if we want to depart from the whole "solo" nonsense, if you double web a freighter, they align MUCH faster. Also, use an Orca because it has better tank, for small(er) m3 amounts.
Do tell how burning a Mach (max speed is what? 1.5k?) at a freighter that takes 20-30s to align is tricky. You don't even have to do it reliably.
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
354
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 08:57:00 -
[144] - Quote
Quote:Do tell how burning a Mach (max speed is what? 1.5k?) at a freighter that takes 20-30s to align is tricky. You don't even have to do it reliably.
I'll go ahead and quote Tippia here for you.
Quote:If it's executed flawlessly and without outside interruption, the victim is pretty much dead, as he should be. As illustrated, it's a fairly complex set of actions that need to be taken in a co-ordinated fashion between a number of people GÇö as with most such things, a single player's main option is to try to not find himself in such a situation to begin with. With freighters, in particular, this is best done by not being a worth-while target.
There are more direct counters; most of them include having support in some form such as scouts, counter-ganks, web-warpers, gang boosts (some implants may be a soloist variation here), logistics, etc. For some reason, the most slow-turning hunk of junk allowed in highsec, flown solo, has problems dealing with a co-ordinated, multi-tiered, multi-prong attack from a dozen playersGǪ fancy that.
Is there anything there that you have an issue with, or what?
I'm curious what you think the problem is... Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |

baltec1
Bat Country
7074
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 08:59:00 -
[145] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:S Byerley wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Not being afk and not auto piloting helps. Much harder to get you then. Bumping a freighter while they're aligning for next warp is trivial. Not as easy as you think, no. It's pretty tricky, but if pulled off correctly, then they basically got all their ducks in a row, so yeah, they deserve the kill. And if we want to depart from the whole "solo" nonsense, if you double web a freighter, they align MUCH faster. Also, use an Orca because it has better tank, for small(er) m3 amounts. Do tell how burning a Mach (max speed is what? 1.5k?) at a freighter that takes 20-30s to align is tricky. You don't even have to do it reliably.
Its amazing how many times mach pilots miss supers. |

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
52
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 09:02:00 -
[146] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:I'm curious what you think the problem is...
I'm just curious why you think bumping during align as opposed to autopilot approach is so hard. Then again, you think gate camping is hard so I guess my standards might be too high.
|

baltec1
Bat Country
7074
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 09:13:00 -
[147] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:I'm curious what you think the problem is... I'm just curious why you think bumping during align as opposed to autopilot approach is so hard. Then again, you think gate camping is hard so I guess my standards might be too high.
Honestly, how hard is it to not put 20 billion in the hold to start with?
The stupid are everywhere. |

Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
354
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 09:13:00 -
[148] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:I'm curious what you think the problem is... I'm just curious why you think bumping during align as opposed to autopilot approach is so hard. Then again, you think gate camping is hard so I guess my standards might be too high.
When did I ever say gatecamping was hard? What I said was, that it requires coordination and planning and preparedness, and that those are rewarded in EVE, which is why they get kills and are working as intended. I also said it was hilariously easy to avoid most gatecamps, and that someone would have to be rather ignorant of how the game works to claim otherwise.
Now, as to your question.
Bumping something trying to autopilot, is easier, because the autopilot has a pretty decent delay. They also warp to 15km on a gate, so you don't even need to bump them on arrival.
So, basically, as anyone who has played the game right would know, using autopilot is a good way to get ganked.
Also, as mentioned, it's more than possible to just outright miss the bump anyway. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
52
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 09:24:00 -
[149] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:S Byerley wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:I'm curious what you think the problem is... I'm just curious why you think bumping during align as opposed to autopilot approach is so hard. Then again, you think gate camping is hard so I guess my standards might be too high. Honestly, how hard is it to not put 20 billion in the hold to start with? The stupid are everywhere.
Well... you're off by at least a factor of 5 in this case. Similarly, killboard indicates that even empty freighters aren't a significant deterrent.
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=18502230 http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=18499970 http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=18499236 http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=18497615 ect.
So.... there's that. |

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
52
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 09:27:00 -
[150] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:[tl;dr: ganking is so haaaaaaaaard]
You're not fooling anyone; do you just get a kick out of forcing other people to correct you? Perhaps you're just legitimately bad at the game?
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