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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |

baltec1
Bat Country
7190
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 00:15:00 -
[451] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:baltec1 wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:Bolow Santosi wrote:I hear not flying around with a cargo full of stuff worth 4 times more than your ship is worth is a really good place to start to avoid things like this. I think any ship you undock is not safe. I just also think that there's a point to excess. This excess being several dosen dead freighters out of hundreds of thousands of freighter trips every month? I don't understand the relevance of your question. Are you trying to say that the hundreds of freighters killed took an hour each time?
No I am saying that out of hundreds of thousands of freighter trips a month only a few dozen end in a gank. |

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
74
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 00:17:00 -
[452] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:You're looking at this the complete wrong way - logging off shouldn't be an encouraged outcome for any scenario.
Can you think of any other scenario that would be impacted? Because I think I can live with a freighter being able to log after 10-20 minutes of being bumped.
Though, I can't say I'd have any qualms with diminishing returns on bumping or bumping's effect on warping. The latter would actually be kinda nice for when you get stuck on a stray invisible collidable. |

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3839
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 00:18:00 -
[453] - Quote
Another option could be for Pend Insurance to refuse to issue rookie ships to criminals. At least the potential criminal will have to engage in the activity of collecting rookie ships in preparation for a crime.
While I don't like the logoffski tactic, there is something wrong with the situation where a player loses control of their character for an hour at the whim of some other player.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
74
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 00:20:00 -
[454] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:But actually ... with adequate data-mining we can say with a very small margin of error whether this disconnect is pure coincidence or is statistically likely to be motivated by the aggression flag.
You're cute when you're butthurt. |

Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1933
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 00:21:00 -
[455] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Khanh'rhh wrote:You're looking at this the complete wrong way - logging off shouldn't be an encouraged outcome for any scenario. Can you think of any other scenario that would be impacted? Because I think I can live with a freighter being able to log after 10-20 minutes of being bumped. The bumping didn't in any way hamper the logoff. If you instead mean the aggression timer - well it impacts the logoff conditions of every ship in space. That is to say, everyone at all times.
It's pretty significant. "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930 |

Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1933
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 00:22:00 -
[456] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Khanh'rhh wrote:But actually ... with adequate data-mining we can say with a very small margin of error whether this disconnect is pure coincidence or is statistically likely to be motivated by the aggression flag. You're cute when you're butthurt. Yeah, I thought you'd opt out of arguing against your own argument. "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930 |

Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
364
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 00:23:00 -
[457] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:S Byerley wrote:Khanh'rhh wrote:But actually ... with adequate data-mining we can say with a very small margin of error whether this disconnect is pure coincidence or is statistically likely to be motivated by the aggression flag. You're cute when you're butthurt. Yeah, I thought you'd opt out of arguing against your own argument.
He usually does. I find it's a common tactic when faced with something irrefutable. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
74
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 00:24:00 -
[458] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:S Byerley wrote:Khanh'rhh wrote:You're looking at this the complete wrong way - logging off shouldn't be an encouraged outcome for any scenario. Can you think of any other scenario that would be impacted? Because I think I can live with a freighter being able to log after 10-20 minutes of being bumped. The bumping didn't in any way hamper the logoff. If you instead mean the aggression timer - well it impacts the logoff conditions of every ship in space. That is to say, everyone at all times. It's pretty significant.
It's only the combination of bumping + suicide timer + high sec that would ever make it advantageous; unless you can think of something I haven't. |

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
74
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 00:27:00 -
[459] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Khanh'rhh wrote:S Byerley wrote:Khanh'rhh wrote:But actually ... with adequate data-mining we can say with a very small margin of error whether this disconnect is pure coincidence or is statistically likely to be motivated by the aggression flag. You're cute when you're butthurt. Yeah, I thought you'd opt out of arguing against your own argument. He usually does. I find it's a common tactic when faced with something irrefutable.
Implying my original argument was irrefutable? K.
|

Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1933
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 00:27:00 -
[460] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Another option could be for Pend Insurance to refuse to issue rookie ships to criminals. At least the potential criminal will have to engage in the activity of collecting rookie ships in preparation for a crime.
While I don't like the logoffski tactic, there is something wrong with the situation where a player loses control of their character for an hour at the whim of some other player.
Can you list the controls unavailable to him? "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930 |
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
364
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 00:32:00 -
[461] - Quote
Quote:Implying my original argument was irrefutable? K.
You infer incorrectly, and you are aware therof.
You are faced with several points that you cannot refute, and thus you dissemble. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
74
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 00:38:00 -
[462] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: You infer incorrectly, and you are aware therof.
You spell and grammar incorrectly. I can hardly be faulted for misinterpreting the thought process behind your broken English.
Quote:You are faced with several points that you cannot refute, and thus you dissemble.
I'm not sure what points you mean, nor what you think I'm trying to conceal.
If you're referring to my unwillingness to teach someone whose only desire is to talk in circles, well... every masochist has his breaking point. |

Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1933
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 00:42:00 -
[463] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:If you're referring to my unwillingness to teach someone whose only desire is to talk in circles, well... every masochist has his breaking point. Yeah, but the whole thread saw me asking you the exact same question over, and over, and over again - with new and exciting ways of not answering the question doled out by forums poster S Byerley.
You can't just wait for a few pages to go by and then pretend that didn't happen. "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930 |

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
74
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 00:46:00 -
[464] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:You can't just wait for a few pages to go by and then pretend that didn't happen.
I wasn't aware I had tried. Your question was invalid and you refused to let me teach you why so there wasn't anything left to be said.
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klikit
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 00:46:00 -
[465] - Quote
I now understand the reasoning behind putting in the aggression timer in the first place. It was put in place to keep capitals (I am assuming it was with combat capitals the timer was targeting) from logging out when aggressed. If that is indeed the case then just take the timer out of high sec space (unless of course you shoot back). Problem solved.
Now with that being said, I understand why all the pro-aggression timer folks don't want see the timer go away and its ok you guys can admit you don't want to see your cash cow dry up. Its ok to feel that way its human nature but to try and gloss over it as something else is just plain silly.
CCP put in a feature, players figured a way to turn into something that I really don't think it was intended for. Now its just a matter of how CCP is going to handle it. If it is intended I don't think it was a very good business decision to disenfranchise a large chunk of your player base. |

Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1933
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 00:49:00 -
[466] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Khanh'rhh wrote:You can't just wait for a few pages to go by and then pretend that didn't happen. I wasn't aware I had tried. Your question was invalid and you refused to let me teach you why so there wasn't anything left to be said. I ... I did what? I refused?
I literally asked you over and over and over and over again to show me why I was wrong but you claimed you were unwilling.
Here's you doing it: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3289894#post3289894
Do you actually think just saying things that are provably untrue over and over makes them true? "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930 |

Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
364
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 00:53:00 -
[467] - Quote
Quote:You spell and grammar incorrectly. I can hardly be faulted for misinterpreting the thought process behind your broken English.
Hilariously, it is not I who is in possession of broken English, colonial heathen.
Although I must confess myself to be in possession of a fondness for inordinately large posteriors, and I cannot prevaricate. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |

baltec1
Bat Country
7192
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 00:53:00 -
[468] - Quote
klikit wrote:I now understand the reasoning behind putting in the aggression timer in the first place. It was put in place to keep capitals (I am assuming it was with combat capitals the timer was targeting) from logging out when aggressed. If that is indeed the case then just take the timer out of high sec space (unless of course you shoot back). Problem solved.
Now with that being said, I understand why all the pro-aggression timer folks don't want see the timer go away and its ok you guys can admit you don't want to see your cash cow dry up. Its ok to feel that way its human nature but to try and gloss over it as something else is just plain silly.
CCP put in a feature, players figured a way to turn into something that I really don't think it was intended for. Now its just a matter of how CCP is going to handle it. If it is intended I don't think it was a very good business decision to disenfranchise a large chunk of your player base.
Why do you people think ganking bads in empire is something new? |

Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
364
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 01:01:00 -
[469] - Quote
Quote:You asked me to spoon feed you literature you aren't qualified to read. It would have been irresponsible of me to acquiesce
Foul dissembler! I shall heretoforth set myself a terrible burden, to pierce and penetrate the opacity of thine obfuscation! Forthwith I shall endeavor towards the defeat and unraveling of thine web, so opposed to gentle and immaculate speech as to fair Arachne! Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |

Callyuk
Thundercats The Initiative.
6
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 01:03:00 -
[470] - Quote
Ganking is accepted all of eve knows this. And most of us agree with it. But the aggression timer initiated on a bumped freightor by a ganker so that he can fail as many times as needed to acheive his goal is just bullshit How Freighters are ganked with new flagging system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdq5in9fR-Y |
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klikit
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 01:04:00 -
[471] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:klikit wrote:I now understand the reasoning behind putting in the aggression timer in the first place. It was put in place to keep capitals (I am assuming it was with combat capitals the timer was targeting) from logging out when aggressed. If that is indeed the case then just take the timer out of high sec space (unless of course you shoot back). Problem solved.
Now with that being said, I understand why all the pro-aggression timer folks don't want see the timer go away and its ok you guys can admit you don't want to see your cash cow dry up. Its ok to feel that way its human nature but to try and gloss over it as something else is just plain silly.
CCP put in a feature, players figured a way to turn into something that I really don't think it was intended for. Now its just a matter of how CCP is going to handle it. If it is intended I don't think it was a very good business decision to disenfranchise a large chunk of your player base. Why do you people think ganking bads in empire is something new? I never said it was anything new, but the aggression timer is and the way its being utilized does not seem to be what it was intended for. It also seems since I quite playing back in 2010 and coming back 3 years later the rate of hi sec ganks seems to be much higher then it used to be and the targets have become a lot bigger.
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Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1933
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 01:04:00 -
[472] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Khanh'rhh wrote:I ... I did what? I refused? Yes.
Quote it, please. Surely my small mind can read my own posts.
Quote:You asked me to spoon feed you literature you aren't qualified to read I asked you to demonstrate it's existence, the content of it is really irrelevent to the point I was making.
Again friend, I'm not sure you realise how juvenile "I know the answer but can't tell you" appears to be.
The real irony of the whole thing, is that should you actually prove I know nothing in the area, you will have shown yourself proven wrong by a layman.
The central tenet of your argument was sunk on ... page 80, 100? And every post since has you been trying to disguise the fact you have absolutely no way of proving your wild statement.
You're also fundamentally flawed in knowing your audience - you can say "but you can't understand it" when you should be concerned with the other readers of the thread who might, you know, think it really weird you would rather spend, by now, nearly 5000 words telling someone why they can't take 30 seconds pasting a URL. "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930 |

Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
364
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 01:05:00 -
[473] - Quote
Callyuk wrote:Ganking is accepted all of eve knows this. And most of us agree with it. But the aggression timer initiated on a bumped freightor by a ganker so that he can fail as many times as needed to acheive his goal is just bullshit
Nope.
Bumping does not initiate an aggression timer. Shooting him does.
By his own admission, he had about forty minutes to attempt a logoffski before he was actually shot at. The OP is just a dumbass, and got what he deserved. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |

Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1933
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 01:08:00 -
[474] - Quote
klikit wrote:I never said it was anything new, but the aggression timer is and the way its being utilized does not seem to be what it was intended for. It also seems since I quite playing back in 2010 and coming back 3 years later the rate of hi sec ganks seems to be much higher then it used to be and the targets have become a lot bigger.
The aggression flag is to prevent people logging off when aggressed. It is being used to prevent people from logging off by aggressing them.
It's been rather confusing for the past 100 posts or so as to why this simple fact eludes people supporting the OP. "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930 |

baltec1
Bat Country
7192
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 01:11:00 -
[475] - Quote
klikit wrote:
I never said it was anything new, but the aggression timer is and the way its being utilized does not seem to be what it was intended for. It also seems since I quite playing back in 2010 and coming back 3 years later the rate of hi sec ganks seems to be much higher then it used to be and the targets have become a lot bigger.
Its working exactly as intended and ganking is at a near record low. |

Callyuk
Thundercats The Initiative.
6
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 01:18:00 -
[476] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:klikit wrote:
I never said it was anything new, but the aggression timer is and the way its being utilized does not seem to be what it was intended for. It also seems since I quite playing back in 2010 and coming back 3 years later the rate of hi sec ganks seems to be much higher then it used to be and the targets have become a lot bigger.
Its working exactly as intended and ganking is at a near record low.
LAWL
How Freighters are ganked with new flagging system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdq5in9fR-Y |

Istyn
Freight Club Whores in space
220
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 01:24:00 -
[477] - Quote
I can only presume Khanh'rhh and Baltec both have the patience of a saint or masochistically enjoy the debating equivalent of banging your head against a wall frequently described by its peers as 'slow', because, holy crap this thread is just getting worse as time goes by. |

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
74
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 01:34:00 -
[478] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:Again friend, I'm not sure you realise how juvenile "I know the answer but can't tell you" appears to be.
But I did tell you the answer; you wouldn't take my word for it. While that would ordinarily be admirable, combined with your lack of basic knowledge and insistence on trying to sound smart at the expense of learning, it becomes the worst kind of ignorance.
Quote:readers of the thread who might, you know, think it really weird you would rather spend, by now, nearly 5000 words telling someone why they can't take 30 seconds pasting a URL.
I'm a bad teacher.
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S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
74
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 01:35:00 -
[479] - Quote
Istyn wrote:banging your head against a wall frequently described by its peers as 'slow'
Bumpers! No wonder we can't get anywhere.
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3839
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 01:56:00 -
[480] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:Another option could be for Pend Insurance to refuse to issue rookie ships to criminals. At least the potential criminal will have to engage in the activity of collecting rookie ships in preparation for a crime.
While I don't like the logoffski tactic, there is something wrong with the situation where a player loses control of their character for an hour at the whim of some other player.
Can you list the controls unavailable to him?
Lack of control does not infer inability to access the controls.
You can have your hands on the steering wheel while your car is sliding over ice: you are at the controls and actively manipulating them, but you have no control.
My concern isn't the lack of control, it is the hour long deprivation of control. Bumping is fine, when you are buying a minute or three for the gank fleet to arrive. Bumping for an hour while maintaining the aggression timer with suicide shots is bot-aspirant levels of absurd. If the gank fleet can't get their acts together in fifteen minutes, they really didn't deserve that gank.
But please do keep pushing the limits of credulity until CCP is forced to take action simply to reduce the petition load  Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
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