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S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
78
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 18:15:00 -
[511] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:The brain is not a digital computer. At least, not in the traditional sense. There's quite a bit of evidence that suggests that the human brain (and indeed that of many or even most animals that have a central nervous system) is more analogous to a quantum computer.
There's evidence of quantum interaction (which is hardly surprising since the information density of DNA, ect. requires a scale where quantum effects are inevitably a factor), but no evidence that it plays a significant role in the computations.
It's also extremely unlikely that quantum computing is beneficial for general purpose algorithms; all evidence suggests that it offers no exponential complexity benefits over the Turing machine model outside a very narrow range of problems.
In any case, we (humans) have made steady progress on quantum computing hardware (though no one can agree on which model to run with).
TL;DR - quantum mind is not a widely accepted theory. |

Callyuk
Thundercats The Initiative.
6
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 18:29:00 -
[512] - Quote
My brain tells me that game mechanics were working correctly but not working as intended How Goons Gank Freighters with the new flagging system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdq5in9fR-Y
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=254193&p=25
Theres a gear at the bottom right in every YOUTUBE video use it |

Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
316
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 18:30:00 -
[513] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Diomedes Calypso wrote:I'm also unclear.. if he does nothing, when he eventually gets attacked concord will kill the attackers even if the attackers kill him first .. right?
Does the bumping just give more time to bring in more firepower from other systems to make sure the job gets done? The bumping serves two purposes. The most important one is that it creates a controlled environment where the gankers can delay and monitor the CONCORD response. You shoot the target once as he exits gate cloak to give him a PvP timer, which ensures that the ship will stay in space for another 15 minutes, no matter what, so logging off no longer saves the victim. This is obviously a criminal act so CONCORD shows up and kills the flagging alt. To counter this, you take advantage of the 15 minute timer to use a neutral alt (or two) to bump the victim at last 150km away from where CONCORD is sitting. The bumping both ensures that the victim can't just warp off willy-nilly, and that the victim is out of reach from immediate CONCORD response. Being this far away causes the CONCORD mechanics to consider the target (and, more importantly, the awaiting gankers) GÇ£out of rangeGÇ¥ for the purpose of responding to their actions, which in turn yields the same effect as delaying CONCORD by spawning them somewhere else in the system. When responding to a crime that's this far away, the CONCORD ships first have to despawn from the first crime scene before they can show up at a new one, which delays the response by half a dozen seconds or so. You sacrifice the loss of a newbship with civvy guns for being able to execute the gank with maybe 20GÇô50% fewer actual attack ships. You can also keep a close eye on CONCORD while doing all of this, which means you have more control over the timers. The second benefit is that the gank now happens maybe 200km off the gate, rather than 15km away from it. As a result, loot thieves will not get as much of a chance to get to the goods, and white knights stand less of a chance counter-killing the looting ships (which will go suspect in the process). If it's a freighter gank, you're likely to need a freighter to loot the wreck, and you definitely want to keep those away from the normal traffic lanes when they go blinky. Which, none of this matters if you are able to A.) alpha the ship or B.) able to draw concord away by attacking other ships in the system. Honestly, the ability to keep someone in space until DT just by shooting it with a rookie ship is a dumb mechanic and should be considered an exploit. Or log off and PvP timers should not renew once the pilot is logged off. You want that kill, bring enough people to do it in 15 minutes.... Oh wait, all the nullbears complained that they couldn't kill ships before they logged off, while at the same time told high sec dwellers to HTFU. The hypocrisy in this game is astounding. SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN!! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schalac |

Elizabeth Aideron
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
54
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 18:57:00 -
[514] - Quote
Schalac wrote:Tippia wrote:Diomedes Calypso wrote:I'm also unclear.. if he does nothing, when he eventually gets attacked concord will kill the attackers even if the attackers kill him first .. right?
Does the bumping just give more time to bring in more firepower from other systems to make sure the job gets done? The bumping serves two purposes. The most important one is that it creates a controlled environment where the gankers can delay and monitor the CONCORD response. You shoot the target once as he exits gate cloak to give him a PvP timer, which ensures that the ship will stay in space for another 15 minutes, no matter what, so logging off no longer saves the victim. This is obviously a criminal act so CONCORD shows up and kills the flagging alt. To counter this, you take advantage of the 15 minute timer to use a neutral alt (or two) to bump the victim at last 150km away from where CONCORD is sitting. The bumping both ensures that the victim can't just warp off willy-nilly, and that the victim is out of reach from immediate CONCORD response. Being this far away causes the CONCORD mechanics to consider the target (and, more importantly, the awaiting gankers) GÇ£out of rangeGÇ¥ for the purpose of responding to their actions, which in turn yields the same effect as delaying CONCORD by spawning them somewhere else in the system. When responding to a crime that's this far away, the CONCORD ships first have to despawn from the first crime scene before they can show up at a new one, which delays the response by half a dozen seconds or so. You sacrifice the loss of a newbship with civvy guns for being able to execute the gank with maybe 20GÇô50% fewer actual attack ships. You can also keep a close eye on CONCORD while doing all of this, which means you have more control over the timers. The second benefit is that the gank now happens maybe 200km off the gate, rather than 15km away from it. As a result, loot thieves will not get as much of a chance to get to the goods, and white knights stand less of a chance counter-killing the looting ships (which will go suspect in the process). If it's a freighter gank, you're likely to need a freighter to loot the wreck, and you definitely want to keep those away from the normal traffic lanes when they go blinky. Which, none of this matters if you are able to A.) alpha the ship or B.) able to draw concord away by attacking other ships in the system. Honestly, the ability to keep someone in space until DT just by shooting it with a rookie ship is a dumb mechanic and should be considered an exploit. Or log off and PvP timers should not renew once the pilot is logged off. You want that kill, bring enough people to do it in 15 minutes.... Oh wait, all the nullbears complained that they couldn't kill ships before they logged off, while at the same time told high sec dwellers to HTFU. The hypocrisy in this game is astounding.
yes the honourable highseccers logging off to avoid combat versus the cowardly nullbears losing multiple waves of ships for a single kill |

RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3583
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 18:59:00 -
[515] - Quote
Schalac wrote:Which, none of this matters if you are able to A.) alpha the ship or B.) able to draw concord away by attacking other ships in the system. Honestly, the ability to keep someone in space until DT just by shooting it with a rookie ship is a dumb mechanic and should be considered an exploit. Or log off and PvP timers should not renew once the pilot is logged off. You want that kill, bring enough people to do it in 15 minutes.... Oh wait, all the nullbears complained that they couldn't kill ships before they logged off, while at the same time told high sec dwellers to HTFU. The hypocrisy in this game is astounding.
Why shouldn't you have all the time in the world to kill an unmanned ship? Why should "alt+F4" be an effective means of escape for anyone? This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |

baltec1
Bat Country
7201
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 19:09:00 -
[516] - Quote
Schalac wrote:
Which, none of this matters if you are able to A.) alpha the ship or B.) able to draw concord away by attacking other ships in the system. Honestly, the ability to keep someone in space until DT just by shooting it with a rookie ship is a dumb mechanic and should be considered an exploit. Or log off and PvP timers should not renew once the pilot is logged off. You want that kill, bring enough people to do it in 15 minutes.... Oh wait, all the nullbears complained that they couldn't kill ships before they logged off, while at the same time told high sec dwellers to HTFU. The hypocrisy in this game is astounding.
Why do you chose to always be a victim? |

Typherian
Macabre Votum Northern Coalition.
44
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 19:19:00 -
[517] - Quote
Hey wait a minute. OP didn't call in help for his freighter but he did call in help to cry on the forums about it. I find this quite funny. |

Callyuk
Thundercats The Initiative.
6
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 19:23:00 -
[518] - Quote
This is how it went down. 2 machs bumped the freighter for 10 minutes or so (to get out of range of gate guns) and agressed with a rookie toon before goons showed up. Goons got there regrouped got concord in sys off grid that took em another 5-10 minutes (agressed with another rookie toon) then they warped in i went global just after they landed. Concord came in as they fired on the freighter and Concord insta popped em so they got off one or two volleys the first round (they failed), Then they bumped (just 1 Machariel now) and agressed freighter 2 more times before they came in sys (1more time after they were in sys) with rookie toons to keep timer on it for 30 more minutes while they deaggressed global and reshipped then they came back in sys for another 5-10 minutes then finished it. How Goons Gank Freighters with the new flagging system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdq5in9fR-Y
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=254193&p=25
Theres a gear at the bottom right in every YOUTUBE video use it |

Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1939
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 19:27:00 -
[519] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:What semantics? It doesn't matter if he was trying to make ISK or to actually harass the guy because the only person who can make that distinction is him (and even then it's subjective and largely philosophical). Honestly, I think the problem is you just don't understand the rule. That the player claims to feel harassed does not make the actions that led to him making that claim harassment. If that were true, people would game the system by claiming harassment. Therefore, CCP look at the facts and try to make a determination of the players intent - was he intending to make ISK or satisfy any tangible in-game goals doing this, or was he doing it just to harass the person?
And yet you bleat on and on that you don't need to show intent - you could not be more wrong because CCP judge intent. CCP have stated they judge intent. I really have no idea why you keep saying the literal opposite to what the facts are. It's either wilful belligerence or you lack the intellect to realise that you are looking at a fact. [quote[In which case,
A. The GM can't tell the difference
or
B. The GM uses contextual information to distinguish between them
In the case of B, the algorithm will have the same contextual information and it's reasonable to assume that some trend/relation (no, I can't tell you which without the data because finding them is the whole point of data mining) can be used to predict the GM's ruling[/quote] Well OK, now we're getting to the nuts and bolts of it - the discussion I asked to have with you countless posts ago.
You're claiming that "there will be some data that can show the player intended to harass the other player with no ulterior motive" -- well, unfortunately you can't simply state something is true, you need to demonstrate it is. Alternately, you can demonstrate similar techniques used in very similar applications and argue they can be applied. Both/either of which I have asked you to demonstrate for a very, very long time now.
The problem with your ascertion that "the logs will show something" is I have demonstrated that scenarios can exist where identical server logs can lead to different judgement-based outcomes, based on contextual information that the server doesn't log.
The video in the OP might be ruled harassment, for instance, if the player could show evidence he was targeted for, say, relgious reasons or because he was friends with someone. Contents of eve-mails, wallet transactions, conversations .. and the more nebulous idea that humans will make judgement calls on a level that is far greater than raw data can measure.
Now, if you're going to support your wild claims by claiming other wild claims (like "but the chat logs will be data-mined, too, so will support it!") then you're going to have to demonstrate the ability of a machine to accurately read a written language (lets not even look at typos, grammatical errors, or otherwise to confuse it) because otherwise you're just claiming something is true because you know it's true. "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930 |

Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1939
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 19:30:00 -
[520] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Elizabeth Aideron wrote:contextual information in this case is generally going to be chatlogs. feel free to show how you can datamine harassment from those Appropriately enough, that field is called text mining. No such attempt at text-mining has been able to show intent, though. The field is much, much more juvenile than whatever pamphlet you swallowed has led you to believe.
You must have shares in some tech company somewhere who have fed you a load of pie in the sky bullshit. No way you can be this invested in believing in technological make-believe otherwise. "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930 |

Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1939
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 19:31:00 -
[521] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:S Byerley wrote:That's just your flesh sack pride talking.
To put things in perspective: A full simulation of the human brain takes about an exaflop (+/- an order subject to debate). We're currently in the tens of petaflops and the exaflop projections are for ~2020. Keep in mind, that's a full simulation, fundamentally more powerful. The brain is not a digital computer. At least, not in the traditional sense. There's quite a bit of evidence that suggests that the human brain (and indeed that of many or even most animals that have a central nervous system) is more analogous to a quantum computer. Yeah, don't try to make this point. He will wail for ~2000 words that you can't prove this needs quantum computing (despite the fact digital computers cannot do it). "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930 |

baltec1
Bat Country
7201
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 19:33:00 -
[522] - Quote
Callyuk wrote:This is how it went down. 2 machs bumped the freighter for 10 minutes or so (to get out of range of gate guns) and agressed with a rookie toon before goons showed up. Goons got there regrouped got concord in sys off grid that took em another 5-10 minutes (agressed with another rookie toon) then they warped in i went global just after they landed. Concord came in as they fired on the freighter and Concord insta popped em so they got off one or two volleys the first round (they failed), Then they bumped (just 1 Machariel now) and agressed freighter 2 more times before they came in sys (1more time after they were in sys) with rookie toons to keep timer on it for 30 more minutes (15+15) (60 or so minutes in total) while they deaggressed global and reshipped then they came back in sys for another 5-10 minutes then finished it.
So where were your friends? |

Callyuk
Thundercats The Initiative.
6
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 19:35:00 -
[523] - Quote
i dont care about algorithyms me i just want ccp to look at the video and logs in my case and determine if this is am intended use of game mechanics. How Goons Gank Freighters with the new flagging system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdq5in9fR-Y
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=254193&p=25
Theres a gear at the bottom right in every YOUTUBE video use it |

baltec1
Bat Country
7201
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 19:49:00 -
[524] - Quote
Callyuk wrote:i don't care about algorithms me i just want CCP to look at the video and logs in my case and determine if this is an intended use of game mechanics.
Yes it is. |

Callyuk
Thundercats The Initiative.
6
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 19:51:00 -
[525] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Callyuk wrote:i don't care about algorithms me i just want CCP to look at the video and logs in my case and determine if this is an intended use of game mechanics. Yes it is.
of course it is for you :) How Goons Gank Freighters with the new flagging system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdq5in9fR-Y
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=254193&p=25
Theres a gear at the bottom right in every YOUTUBE video use it |

baltec1
Bat Country
7201
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 20:00:00 -
[526] - Quote
Callyuk wrote:
of course it is for you :)
The day you catch a war target in a freighter while flying a frigate solo you will understand |

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
78
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 20:10:00 -
[527] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:That the player claims to feel harassed does not make the actions that led to him making that claim harassment.
Of course not; there's always a murky but conventional threshold that defines when the objective actions cumulatively start to constitute harassment, as observed by a third party. The feelings of the victim can factor into borderline cases, but the goal of the aggressor (assuming the actions were conscious and the negative effects understood) not so much.
Quote:Therefore, CCP look at the facts and try to make a determination of the players intent - was he intending to make ISK or satisfy any tangible in-game goals doing this, or was he doing it just to harass the person?
You'll have to support this somehow because according to the only reference under consideration, CCP didn't give a flying **** that the offending miner bumpers did so under the guise of trying to collect a ransom. Why? Because the difference was philosophical and impossible to judge without giving the aggressor a gaping loophole.
Quote:Well OK, now we're getting to the nuts and bolts of it - the discussion I asked to have with you countless posts ago.
We really aren't. |

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
78
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 20:11:00 -
[528] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:Alternately, you can demonstrate similar techniques used in very similar applications and argue they can be applied.
Of harassment detection in text logs? That's easy: http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=2187995
It's not fundamentally different from the common examples I already gave and I imagine you're going to make a lame counter-argument with the exact experimental results (not understanding the sampling methods or trade-offs), but there's more supplemental knowledge than I can really hope to address.
An example perhaps more on your level of understand is the LoL tribunal. Lots of people have played with that data set (though not in an academic context afaik) and hit 90-95+% accuracy rates with naive methods.
Quote:I have demonstrated that scenarios can exist where identical server logs can lead to different judgement-based outcomes, based on contextual information that the server doesn't log.
You haven't; giving information to the human and not the algorithm is obviously not a fair comparison and invalidates your "thought experiment".
Quote: you're going to have to demonstrate the ability of a machine to accurately read a written language.
Even you must be familiar with Watson? |

Callyuk
Thundercats The Initiative.
6
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 20:20:00 -
[529] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Callyuk wrote:
of course it is for you :)
The day you catch a war target in a freighter while flying a frigate solo you will understand
Key word is War Target . How Goons Gank Freighters with the new flagging system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdq5in9fR-Y
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=254193&p=25
Theres a gear at the bottom right in every YOUTUBE video use it |

Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1939
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 21:23:00 -
[530] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Of course not; there's always a murky but conventional threshold that defines when the objective actions cumulatively start to constitute harassment, as observed by a third party. The feelings of the victim can factor into borderline cases, but the goal of the aggressor (assuming the actions were conscious and the negative effects understood) not so much And this is where you fall down, because identical actions are performed whether the intent is to harass or make gains from it. I know you understand this by now. I know you don't want to admit you failed to see this when you made your original statement, but it's long past time you stop stating falsehoods as truths to try to support your claims.
Quote:You'll have to support this somehow because according to the only reference under consideration, CCP didn't give a flying **** that the offending miner bumpers did so under the guise of trying to collect a ransom. Why? Because the difference was philosophical and impossible to judge without giving the aggressor a gaping loophole OK, so here you've admitted you don't know the rules. This is at least a start, I guess. I'll offer a hint: CCP have said that certain actions can be against the rules - how is that determined? More importantly (really, much more importantly) why is it done in this way instead of stating a limit on the number of times someone can be bumped? C'mon buddy, do it. You're nearly there! You're almost at the point of understanding why classification and case-by-case judgement are different concepts.
You're selectively quoting from a passage where I say computer analysis can't show intent to disguise the fact you can't demonstrate this.
If this is "easy" in the same way everything else you say is "easy" - then what you really mean is "yeah, there's kinda some research in the area, it's being improved on but is yet to reach statistical significance" ... then I think we've proven that when you say something is "easy" what you mean is "potentially possible in the future" and I think we can leave it there. My issue was with your original post
S Byerley wrote:Incidentally, data mining would mimic human judgement with an extremely high degree of accuracy in a scenario like this. Computers are smart; people are bad at utilizing them. Which is still demonstrably untrue, now even more so since you have proven several elements of any such data-mining task would be unable to achieve statistical significance. You can't very well use chat-logs to determine whether identical actions are harassment or not, if the machine is flipping a coin on it.
On a very basic level, the stated usage case of such an analysis technique (more developed than currently available) would be to raise flags for moderators to pass judgement on. They are not stating it can determine, for itself, whether the material qualifies - it is simply spitting out a number stating how close it fits the accuracy of its (not well refined) model. In EvE, players raise petitions when something like this happens, so there is no need to have a massive data analysis tool running around and repeating that task.
"I imagine you're going to make a lame counter-argument with the exact experimental results" Well yes, it might be quite boorish of me to insist that we discuss matters of provable fact when we're questioning fact, but dem's the breaks. "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930 |

Callyuk
Thundercats The Initiative.
6
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 21:25:00 -
[531] - Quote
Release the Logs CCP so i can post them :) How Goons Gank Freighters with the new flagging system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdq5in9fR-Y
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=254193&p=25
Theres a gear at the bottom right in every YOUTUBE video use it |

Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1939
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 21:29:00 -
[532] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Even you must be familiar with Watson? Yes, but this is just you (once again) seemingly clinging onto the dream of what might be and (for some reason) claiming it would be trivial to implement.
Just two years ago, one of the world's leading tech companies, with a massive budget, produced a highly specific algorithm, running on a supercomputer, for answering knowledge-based questions in a clear unbroken and expected format. The reason you know about it, the reason I know about it, is because it is/was a computing breakthrough.
You claimed that going WAY beyond the scope of Watson was possible 30-40 years ago.
Do you have any idea why you are being pointed and laughed at? "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930 |

Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1939
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 21:33:00 -
[533] - Quote
I mean, there are potential cures for cancer that have trialed way higher than the **** you're pulling out here, and no one is saying "curing cancer is easy" because they're able to, you know, see facts as facts, and not something that is true if you close your eyes and wish really hard. "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930 |

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
78
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 21:47:00 -
[534] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:This is at least a start, I guess. I'll offer a hint: CCP have said that certain actions can be against the rules - how is that determined?
I already gave you my understanding, as well as how it's done in virtually every other context. If you disagree, perhaps you should put a citation where you mouth is.
Quote:If this is "easy" in the same way everything else you say is "easy" - then what you really mean is "yeah, there's kinda some research in the area, it's being improved on but is yet to reach statistical significance" ... then I think we've proven that when you say something is "easy" what you mean is "potentially possible in the future" and I think we can leave it there.
Naw, man up mate. You said it was impossible despite there being a good decade+ of productive/useful research in the field. Read the paper; read some other stuff in the field; then we can have a two-way discussion.
Quote:Which is still demonstrably untrue, now even more so since you have proven several elements of any such data-mining task would be unable to achieve statistical significance.
Oh jeez, I hate teaching statistics. Do me a favor and either take my word for it(the authors wouldn't have published statistically insignificant results without saying so) or do your own reading?
Quote:In EvE, players raise petitions when something like this happens, so there is no need to have a massive data analysis tool running around and repeating that task.
If you'll recall, I made the disclaimer several times that this obviously wasn't something appropriate for the problem. I'm strictly indulging your tangent in the hopes that you'll learn something despite yourself. |

Callyuk
Thundercats The Initiative.
6
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 21:56:00 -
[535] - Quote
Facts are facts but its opinion that matters Not yours or mine but the devs How Goons Gank Freighters with the new flagging system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdq5in9fR-Y
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=254193&p=25
Theres a gear at the bottom right in every YOUTUBE video use it |

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
78
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 22:10:00 -
[536] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:Yes, but this is just you (once again) seemingly clinging onto the dream of what might be and (for some reason) claiming it would be trivial to implement.
I don't recall saying it would be trivial to implement. Data mining techniques can take quite a lot of manual effort to fit the data set.
Quote:Just two years ago, one of the world's leading tech companies, with a massive budget, produced a highly specific algorithm, running on a supercomputer, for answering knowledge-based questions in a clear unbroken and expected format. The reason you know about it, the reason I know about it, is because it is/was a computing breakthrough.
It beat the most adept humans in the world at a fairly complex task (notably harder than what we're talking about mind you). It only required a supercomputer to meet the latency requirements of the show (and not a particularly high-end supercomputer); you can run the development version on an ordinary desktop. The system itself allows for very general application; some are pretty neat, I suggest you read up on them. Annnd, it wasn't a breakthrough, more of a highly publicized milestone.
Quote:You claimed that going WAY beyond the scope of Watson was possible 30-40 years ago.
Text analysis can be challenging to do properly, but what I had in mind were decision trees (which popped up in the 70's if memory serves). Lots of the techniques used for cutting edge stuff (Neural networks, ect.) were conceived ages ago and it's getting the necessary hardware/optimizing them for it that's hard.
Quote:Do you have any idea why you are being pointed and laughed at?
By you? I don't really care to conjecture on issues of psychoanalysis. You do remind me a lot of college freshmen though. |

Jonah Gravenstein
Balius and Xanthus Traditional Gunsmiths
9480
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 22:17:00 -
[537] - Quote
Callyuk wrote:Facts are facts but its opinion that matters Not yours or mine but the devs And the current consensus of opinion amongst Devs is that bumping for the purposes of a gank is not an exploit. If anyone wishes to challenge that consensus then they'll need to raise a petition regarding this threads particular scenario.
In Eve you're a god, why have morals? |

Elizabeth Aideron
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
54
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 22:21:00 -
[538] - Quote
Callyuk wrote:Facts are facts but its opinion that matters Not yours or mine but the devs
* PVP flags CAN be created and further extended after log-off even if the owner did not have a PVP flag at the time of disconnect.. If Char A logs off in space (with or without a PVP flag), and then char B attacks A, then A will get a PVP flag. Char A's ship will then remain in space for as long as that PVP flag exists. These changes should ensure that unavoidable disconnects (eg caused by network problems) aren't massively penalising, whilst ensuring that manually killing the client to avoid PVP is never a viable strategy.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2079573#post2079573 |

Callyuk
Thundercats The Initiative.
6
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 22:21:00 -
[539] - Quote
Yea but ganks never take an hour maybe the devs will add a stipulation to the finding ? How Goons Gank Freighters with the new flagging system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdq5in9fR-Y
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=254193&p=25
Theres a gear at the bottom right in every YOUTUBE video use it |

Jonah Gravenstein
Balius and Xanthus Traditional Gunsmiths
9480
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 22:23:00 -
[540] - Quote
Callyuk wrote:Yea but ganks never take an hour maybe the devs will add a stipulation to the finding ? I doubt it, the devs don't have a history of catering to special snowflakes.
In Eve you're a god, why have morals? |
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