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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Dash Ripcock
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Posted - 2006.01.29 16:54:00 -
[271]
I think the slot-layout on the Deimos is perfectly fine. One more high, one more low. Other than that she's the same as the Thorax - born and bred blasters. Well, she's supposed to be!
As for those saying Deimos pilots are selfish - how are we supposed to argue the case of ships we don't fly? If I fly a Deimos and think she needs some adjustment I have every right to say so. If you fly a Muninn (something that my skills will never take me towards) then you have every right to raise a topic concerning her.
The Firing Range |
danneh
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Posted - 2006.01.29 16:57:00 -
[272]
150 more powergrid.
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Dash Ripcock
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Posted - 2006.01.29 17:05:00 -
[273]
She needs more CPU as well, perhaps 30 units or so.
The Firing Range |
Asurix
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Posted - 2006.01.29 17:08:00 -
[274]
Originally by: Ante As a radical suggestion, what if the Deimos received some extra grid (for arguments sake around 200), received a new mid slot but lost a low slot?
I realise it changes the ship a lot but it might be a welcome change.
slots is fine, 150 more grid ftw and +20m/s
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Kai Lae
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Posted - 2006.01.29 19:52:00 -
[275]
The deimos's problem is that it's grid is too low to support even the smallest medium weapons with anything that would be considered a standard setup; for instance:
5x electron II, M Nos II 10mn MWD II, web, med cap booster MAR II, 3x energized adaptive II, 2x MFS II
That won't fit w/ AWU 4 because you don't have enough grid. Nothing about this setup is uber or unusual, but it won't fit - what does that tell you?
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Asurix
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Posted - 2006.01.29 20:08:00 -
[276]
change one of those MFS II's to a PDU II and u can do that setup with ions =)
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Kai Lae
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Posted - 2006.01.29 20:13:00 -
[277]
Not my point, the point is the grid is too low to support even the smallest medium weapons without a grid module.
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Dash Ripcock
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Posted - 2006.01.29 20:35:00 -
[278]
Exactly.
The difference between the Thorax and Deimos in fitting requirements is miniscule compared with the other HACs and their T1 counter-parts. 30 CPU and 40 Powergrid. Think about it - that's for a high-slot weapon module and a low-slot module. She is limited almost exclusively to Electron setups or Electron/Ion/Power Unit setups if she wants to have a MAR II, M Nosferatu and a MWD (she'd built for these remember) fitted at the same time. It's absurd.
Secondly, she's only one of two HACs that are slower than their T1 counterpart. The Cerberus is 2ms slower than a Caracal, but the Deimos is a whopping 10ms slower than a Thorax. This is a ship designed to get in close as fast as it can to score hits with her low-range, high-damage guns. It makes no sense to make her slower and limited to low-end blasters when she's a Tech 2 ship - a supposed specialist in her field.
I still believe she wasn't given the attention she needed due to her undoubtedly being the initial favourite HAC, hence the glossy paint job and custom engine trail.
The Firing Range |
ChalSto
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Posted - 2006.02.26 21:55:00 -
[279]
the problem isnŠt the deimos.........it is her pimery weapons........the BLASTERS! DPS is superp.......tank is absolutly crap...even with THE WORST BLASTERS TO FIT!!!!!! BLASTERS need a fix ......YESTERDAY CCP!!!!!!!!!!! The problem is known VERY LONG now........
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HUGO DRAX
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Posted - 2006.02.26 23:38:00 -
[280]
IF the deimos is so bad why is is more expensive than the Ishtar? Dont just complain, do something. Channel macrointel meet with likeminded folks, spottings,intel |
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ThunderGodThor
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Posted - 2006.02.27 00:00:00 -
[281]
Originally by: HUGO DRAX IF the deimos is so bad why is is more expensive than the Ishtar?
Thats cause the supply on them hasnt come up from all the back orders. That and after the RMR patch changing the tanking made all this problems come out.
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CptEagle
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Posted - 2006.02.27 00:14:00 -
[282]
Signed.
Originally by: HUGO DRAX IF the deimos is so bad why is is more expensive than the Ishtar?
Its a very cool ship. But you can't fit it decently so it pops, so price goes up.
FatBalls > CCP just checked their logs and no lag ever came from EvE |
Dash Ripcock
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Posted - 2006.03.05 11:21:00 -
[283]
Original Post has been edited and updated. Please take the time to read it through.
Save The Deimos |
Bazman
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Posted - 2006.03.05 11:33:00 -
[284]
Only 10 pages so far, 6 more are needed before a dev reads it :P
TBH, what would make me the happiest person ever, would be if they gave it a little more grid, and remodelled the Heavy Ion Blaster II's so that they looked like a Med Gun version of the Ion Blaster Cannon II's. Those turrets and firing animations are absolutely badass on the Ion Cannons, if they were like that on the Deimos, i would never fly another ship again. Ever :P -----
Hi TomB! All out Do or Die Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks. |
Spartan239
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Posted - 2006.03.05 11:56:00 -
[285]
just out of curiosity, excluding those funny eagle setups what other cruiser is meant to fit heavy neutrons ii's?
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twit brent
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Posted - 2006.03.05 13:45:00 -
[286]
Given up on my deioms, Istar 4tw!
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Dash Ripcock
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Posted - 2006.03.05 17:39:00 -
[287]
Originally by: Spartan239 just out of curiosity, excluding those funny eagle setups what other cruiser is meant to fit heavy neutrons ii's?
The only other HACs with a Medium Hybrid bonus are the Deimos and the Ishtar. Given their fitting screen, good luck with both.
One of the statements often put forward in this topic is:
"I can fit Ion Blasters to my Deimos fine, just put a Small Nosferatu in the high-slots...
They have a point, but it's also entirely the point. In order to fit the medium-range blaster people have to make large sacrifices due to fitting. Now, using my rather impressive drawing skills I shall demonstrate what I mean:
Deimos Now:
[ELECTRONS]----><----[IONS]---------[NEUTRONS]
Deimos How It Should Be:
[ELECTRONS]--------->[IONS]<---------[NEUTRONS]
Basically the Deimos is stuck between Electrons and Ions. Electrons if you want to have a decent setup elsewhere, Ions if you want decent damage albeit with sacrifices. Ideally, the Deimos should be able to do the following: Electrons - It should be able to use low-end Blasters and a decent tank, perhaps not with a 1600mm plate (bad idea with current agility anyway) but certainly a 800mm plate. I can use Focused Medium Pulse IIs, a monstrous tank and an AB/MWD on my Zealot - why not the Deimos?
Ions - Decent damage with a decent tank (MARP II with 1/2 hardeners), MWD and Medium Nos with no power modifications needed. Potentially the most popular since it gives you the damage you need after the approach, and allows you to hit near the webbing threshold.
Neutrons - Currently impossible due to fitting, you should be able to use her like a Megathron (that said, the Megathron is a T1 ship whilst the Deimos is T2). Maximum damage, light tank or plated and perhaps an AB or MWD. Could be used with Covert Ops.
The Deimos essentially needs more flexibility, and her one-trick needs to pay off.
Save The Deimos |
EL TITAN
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Posted - 2006.03.05 18:43:00 -
[288]
diemos is fine just the way it is.
alot of ships have grid problems not just the diemos, deal with it ;o _________________________________________________ <3 hi |
Dash Ripcock
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Posted - 2006.03.05 18:59:00 -
[289]
Originally by: EL TITAN diemos is fine just the way it is.
alot of ships have grid problems not just the diemos, deal with it ;o
It's all relative.
Did you read the original post? Did you notice that the Deimos has a 3.6% Power Grid boost over the Thorax - the lowest of any HAC bar the Ishtar, or that compared with other T2 blaster ships like the Astarte she is criminally underpowered?
I fly my ship, you fly yours. I have a right to champion a cause to have her fixed.
Save The Deimos |
Miklas Laces
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Posted - 2006.03.06 15:44:00 -
[290]
Speed: Deimos: 170, Zaelot: 215, Cerberus: 185
Radius: Deimos: 160, Zealot: 125, Cerberus: 135
Power upgrade from T1 Thorax (820) -> Deimos (860) = +40 powergrid Omen (730) -> Zealot (1090) = +360 powergrid Caracal (530) -> Cerberus (635) = +105 powergrid
Med Nos: With standard setups all above mentioned hacs can fit a Med Nos without problems. Deimos have to either fit a small Nos or waste a low slot on a RCU.
pros: - most damaging of all - better tracking than Zealot - can use mwd with no cap penalty
cons: - lowest speed of all - bigger radius of all - only hac that can't fit a med nos - most cap hungry of all - lowest range of all - difficult to fit rep+ions+mwd
Personally I think that Deimos as it is now it's not that bad, it just need some more powergrid to be in line with other hacs.
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Lartfor
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Posted - 2006.03.06 16:51:00 -
[291]
I find it rather strange that the ships designed to field the closest range weapons in the game are far less agile and more sluggish than their counterparts.
I think the Deimos needs a sig reduction to about 140, a mass reduction to about 11k, and a speed increase to around 190 m/s.
The only thing to be carefull about when rebalancing the ship is the powergrid increase. If the blaster rework does infact decrease the powergrid rq on blasters maybee that will solve the problem in itself (be good to use Tomb).
Yes the Deimos is capable of higher dps than many of the other Hacs but you have to understand that this comes at great costs and in my minds eye the risk is not worth the reward atm. People are better off flying the Ishtar in almost every situation this needs to change.
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Dash Ripcock
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Posted - 2006.03.06 18:05:00 -
[292]
Thanks for the numbers guys, I think they add weight to the argument. What has been mentioned is pretty much the crux of it: the Deimos does high damage, but this damage can only be used under five kilometres with Electrons. Granted she has an MWD capacitor bonus, but that doesn't exclude the fact that she is the slowest, least agile and most signature heavy of all the HACs - a triple blow against a blaster boat. Tactically and balance-wise it makes no sense, especially considering my Zealot with a 1600mm plate is still faster and more agile than my Deimos without one.
Let's make the juice worth the squeeze.
Save The Deimos |
Zysco
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Posted - 2006.03.06 18:21:00 -
[293]
Originally by: Dash Ripcock
Let's make the juice worth the squeeze.
Girl next door quote?
callon > I don't like traveling much, i think its cause my father used to beat me with a globe.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=300438New vid: "we're back |
Dash Ripcock
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Posted - 2006.03.06 18:24:00 -
[294]
Originally by: Zysco
Originally by: Dash Ripcock
Let's make the juice worth the squeeze.
Girl next door quote?
Just a general quote, but yes - it has been used in that film!
Ahem, stay on topic
Save The Deimos |
Techyon
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Posted - 2006.03.06 18:26:00 -
[295]
Nothing to add to Dash's campaign to get the deimos fixed.. except that I support it fully, he's spot on. ------
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Crellion
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Posted - 2006.03.06 18:55:00 -
[296]
Edited by: Crellion on 06/03/2006 18:55:25 OP signed
Look also at what Lartfor is saying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is the very essence of the problem.
Range should be: blasters > pulses > autocannons or speed / agility should be Deimos > Zealot > vagabond. The current system is silly and suicidal. Slowest boat with clumsiest guns? why?
The mwd bonus does not compensate... (due to blasters cap usage)
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MellaRinn
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Posted - 2006.03.06 20:58:00 -
[297]
OP signed!
I was a bit scared when I saw my friend's Deimos the first time and looked at its fitting stats...
I hope blasters overhaul will solve many problems :) +=
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Kuro Hayashi
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Posted - 2006.03.07 19:40:00 -
[298]
Out of curiosity...
Is there some sort of proposed blaster overhaul in the works? Or just the raving of lunatics?
A practicioner of Unsensical thought. |
Lando PimpRissian
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Posted - 2006.03.07 19:59:00 -
[299]
Now that I can fly a Deimos I must say that if nothing else is done to it then at the least it can get a speed boost or at least acceleration boost. Acceleration is being overlooked I think in comparison to top speed. If they could reduce the mass and increase the acceleration, I think it would be OK.
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Dash Ripcock
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Posted - 2006.03.07 20:20:00 -
[300]
Originally by: Kuro Hayashi Out of curiosity...
Is there some sort of proposed blaster overhaul in the works? Or just the raving of lunatics?
It's been mentioned by TomB, but no numbers or anything concrete yet and it might just effect large blasters.
Save The Deimos |
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