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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
HUGO DRAX
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Posted - 2006.03.07 21:01:00 -
[301]
The striking thing I notice about the Deimos is how laggard if feels vs the thorax. I dont like that one bit, why gimp the Deimos in that way actually making it worse than the T1 Thorax.
Dont just complain, do something. Channel macrointel meet with likeminded folks, spottings,intel |
Max Hardcase
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Posted - 2006.03.07 21:24:00 -
[302]
Fly vigilant, its cheaperthan a deimos it gets :
- fixed 25% damage bonus - better cap giving bonus with MWD; 10%/lvl - tracking bonus ;5%/lvl - better agility than thorax - 4th medium slot - free 600 extra armor.
---------------------------------------------- Max Hardcase > yawn-o-rama Max Hardcase > is this typical of RA warfare ? FreaKsh0 > yes boredom fitted in all their high slots |
Kunming
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Posted - 2006.03.07 22:16:00 -
[303]
I think the arguements are crystal clear so fix the ship pls..
A blaster ship is a close combat fighter, it needs to have all the armor, agility and speed it can get to survive, yet the deimos has none, and not even enough PG to compensate this.
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Dash Ripcock
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Posted - 2006.03.08 10:56:00 -
[304]
Originally by: HUGO DRAX The striking thing I notice about the Deimos is how laggard if feels vs the thorax. I dont like that one bit, why gimp the Deimos in that way actually making it worse than the T1 Thorax.
Yup, I have been flying my Thorax with a 1600mm plate recently and she's fast and just as nimble. It just makes getting into blaster range a chore rather than what it should be - exciting.
Save The Deimos |
madaluap
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Posted - 2006.03.08 11:18:00 -
[305]
Originally by: Dash Ripcock
Originally by: HUGO DRAX The striking thing I notice about the Deimos is how laggard if feels vs the thorax. I dont like that one bit, why gimp the Deimos in that way actually making it worse than the T1 Thorax.
Yup, I have been flying my Thorax with a 1600mm plate recently and she's fast and just as nimble. It just makes getting into blaster range a chore rather than what it should be - exciting.
lol ill whope that thorax ass anyday small guns dont cut it anymore, electron 2 and ion 2 do ^^ _________________________________________________
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2006.03.08 11:22:00 -
[306]
atm, deimos is no better than thorax, except when it comes to killing thorax...
Apart from that, everything that deimos does, can be done with thorax for like 10% of the price.
Originally by: Commander Nikolas People like Lukec are the problem and they know it. Shin Ra's Raven has 4x WCS, Lukec's Dominix has 5x WCS & Ishtar has 2x WCS.
Antipiracy is causing brain damage |
Dash Ripcock
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Posted - 2006.03.08 11:46:00 -
[307]
Edited by: Dash Ripcock on 08/03/2006 11:46:20
Originally by: madaluap
Originally by: Dash Ripcock
Originally by: HUGO DRAX The striking thing I notice about the Deimos is how laggard if feels vs the thorax. I dont like that one bit, why gimp the Deimos in that way actually making it worse than the T1 Thorax.
Yup, I have been flying my Thorax with a 1600mm plate recently and she's fast and just as nimble. It just makes getting into blaster range a chore rather than what it should be - exciting.
lol ill whope that thorax ass anyday small guns dont cut it anymore, electron 2 and ion 2 do ^^
Two words: Frigate Killer.
Save The Deimos |
HUGO DRAX
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Posted - 2006.03.08 16:59:00 -
[308]
Just give me the agility boost, maybe 30% over the rax and a smaller sig radius [10% less]. I Will be happy with just that. Dont just complain, do something. Channel macrointel meet with likeminded folks, spottings,intel |
Zembla
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Posted - 2006.03.08 22:04:00 -
[309]
Shameless bump.
It's about time the Deimos got some extra grid, 'n maybe a tad more CPU for those two additional slots. That's without mentioning the gimped agility & speed.
<Z>
Spread the Z |
Yarek Balear
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Posted - 2006.03.08 22:21:00 -
[310]
/signed...
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Harper04
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Posted - 2006.03.09 20:39:00 -
[311]
150 more grid, a tad bit more cpu (I run faction mods on my pvp setup cause that's the only way to have enough to run a halfway decent fitting without cpu issues), and at least the same base speed as the thorax pls.
This is the gallente blasterboat, it should be able to rip apart short range ships and eat them for breakfast at it's optimal...and I'm not even gonna talk about the cap issues...
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Beowulf Scheafer
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Posted - 2006.03.09 21:06:00 -
[312]
Originally by: Chronus26 Edited by: Chronus26 on 01/12/2005 14:49:37 I was shocked when I came to try and invent a fitting for a Deimos in ship fitter, with my skills, which aren't poor but admittendly not top notch either, I could't fill all of the slots. Ther just wasn't enough Grid and CPU to get the job done. I understand that you shouldn't be able to fit every ship in the game with whatever the hell you want, but shouldn't what is supposed to be THE ultimate blaster ship be able to fit at least a full rack of Ion blasters? and a simple tank of an EXP hardner and a repairer... And you also pretty much NEED a MWD. I agree with what Dash says, along with comments other have added, the Deimos could do with a little adjustment, CPU and Grid wise at the least. Nobody's calling into question the damage the Deimos can put out, what is being questioned however is the Deimos' ability to use this high damage output effectivly in combat.
EDIT: Spelling correction, my appologies..
i have topskills, nearly everything that afflicts it on 5. the deimos is one hell of a ***** to fit. and for that reason one of the weakest HAC's ingame. if i have the wtfpwnbbq dmgdealer i have ions and then my cpu gets low really fast. even with electronblasters ( and comparabily weak damge) i have to use shadow serpentis gear to fit something you might want to name tank in there. it looks pretty well, and as long as you have ecm support its a great ship and dmgdealer no. 1. on your own you are hack to maybe all other HAC's ( if their pilot is able to fit them).
http://www.wonderlands.org/file/test1.jpg
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Mark Collins
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Posted - 2006.03.09 23:05:00 -
[313]
Just a bit of info... happened last night: One Deimos vs One Dominix, One Brutix, One Thorax... 60sec later Rax is running and two pods are warping away from the Deimos...
granted our skills are not up to speed (and I now believe you need to be READY to fly a BS or BC into 0.3 space) but he was dealing some scary damage (saw on the obituary for my Brutix that it was with HEAVY ION T2...)
respect the Deimos - I do from now on...
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2006.03.09 23:15:00 -
[314]
Originally by: Mark Collins
granted our skills are not up to speed
This is hardly an arguement to change the ship
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Harper04
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Posted - 2006.03.09 23:16:00 -
[315]
Originally by: Mark Collins Just a bit of info... happened last night: One Deimos vs One Dominix, One Brutix, One Thorax... 60sec later Rax is running and two pods are warping away from the Deimos...
granted our skills are not up to speed (and I now believe you need to be READY to fly a BS or BC into 0.3 space) but he was dealing some scary damage (saw on the obituary for my Brutix that it was with HEAVY ION T2...)
respect the Deimos - I do from now on...
Yes...I'm guessing you were in the group with the domi, brutix, and rax. Deimos is a nice ship, but you guys shoulda pwnt him . Next time tell the domi to carry at least 2 large nos, and invite the deimos back . I use t2 ions, and there's no way even the rax should die before the deimos will against those 3 ships.
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Manyara
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Posted - 2006.03.10 01:26:00 -
[316]
Sorry guys but I have to disagree with this whole thread. A deimos kicks the tish out of a thorax any day of the week for one simple reason: damage. Train your skills for a deimos and you can knock the stuffing out of a bs with ease (I know, I've done it).
I dont care what you put on your rax. My deimos will take it to bits. Granted the rax is cheaper, but the omen is cheaper than the zealot, you dont hear ppl complaining about that.
With regard to the plate debate, you can fit ions and no plate, or electrons and a plate. Or if you're clever/rich/both, ions and a smaller plate.
Deimos > rax. Simple. Want drones? fly a vexor or an ishtar. Or even a domi. Turret damage more your bag? rax and deimos are your friends.
My thoughts are simply this: Stop whining. The deimos is uber. The player flying it might not be. The only win button in game atm is the titan, and the only ppl that have a titan are ASCN. Can't wait for the whinefest that starts when they unleash it... ----------------
How would you like your ass? |
Dash Ripcock
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Posted - 2006.03.10 02:11:00 -
[317]
Originally by: Manyara Sorry guys but I have to disagree with this whole thread. A deimos kicks the tish out of a thorax any day of the week for one simple reason: damage. Train your skills for a deimos and you can knock the stuffing out of a bs with ease (I know, I've done it).
I dont care what you put on your rax. My deimos will take it to bits. Granted the rax is cheaper, but the omen is cheaper than the zealot, you dont hear ppl complaining about that.
With regard to the plate debate, you can fit ions and no plate, or electrons and a plate. Or if you're clever/rich/both, ions and a smaller plate.
Deimos > rax. Simple. Want drones? fly a vexor or an ishtar. Or even a domi. Turret damage more your bag? rax and deimos are your friends.
My thoughts are simply this: Stop whining. The deimos is uber. The player flying it might not be. The only win button in game atm is the titan, and the only ppl that have a titan are ASCN. Can't wait for the whinefest that starts when they unleash it...
You disagree with the whole thread, or just the posts immediately above?
Please read the original post to see why the Deimos at the moment simply doesn't live up to her potential. Yes of course she can kill ships, but you can kill anything in anything. This thread is about redressing the Deimos so she is in-line with the other blaster ships, and to finally make her able to field Ion blasters and get into range as quickly as she should. You mention you can fit Ions and no plate. The entire point is you can't fit Ions at all without losing a slot to a frigate module or power module. This does not make sense, not in a Tech 2 blaster boat.
I bought my Deimos about 15 months ago. I can count the number of times I have picked it over my other HACs on one hand.
Save The Deimos |
Kin'Tarr
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Posted - 2006.03.10 02:36:00 -
[318]
Just got hold of a deimos the other day, decided to fit it out and test it vs a corp mate in a zealot.
Firstly - lack of pg/cpu, almost identical setup as my vigilant/thorax. Secondly the mass/agility of the ship is abysmal to say the least and this is my major concern.
Dueling my corp mates zealot was just too funny, at one point i had a little run up, mwd on going max speed (1400-1500 m/s) and as soon as i hit the zealots web range (10km/90%) my inertia just barely carries me 4km putting me 6km from the target who is also webbed and moving away from me (he was using a 10mn Ab), thus my blasters having sod all effect.
I understand that its best to start most deimos fights up close but that situation clearly shows the ship is too heavy and slow to function as a get in close from distance using mwd (ship bonus) and kill.
I have no problem with webbers btw
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Toshiro Khan
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Posted - 2006.03.10 02:41:00 -
[319]
Originally by: Manyara Sorry guys but I have to disagree with this whole thread. A deimos kicks the tish out of a thorax any day of the week for one simple reason: damage. Train your skills for a deimos and you can knock the stuffing out of a bs with ease (I know, I've done it).
I dont care what you put on your rax. My deimos will take it to bits. Granted the rax is cheaper, but the omen is cheaper than the zealot, you dont hear ppl complaining about that.
With regard to the plate debate, you can fit ions and no plate, or electrons and a plate. Or if you're clever/rich/both, ions and a smaller plate.
Deimos > rax. Simple. Want drones? fly a vexor or an ishtar. Or even a domi. Turret damage more your bag? rax and deimos are your friends.
My thoughts are simply this: Stop whining. The deimos is uber. The player flying it might not be. The only win button in game atm is the titan, and the only ppl that have a titan are ASCN. Can't wait for the whinefest that starts when they unleash it...
I find it interesting that you disagree with the 'whole' thread... being as when it started you still had the heavy drone, 1600 plate rax as the major flavor of the month that could tear a deimos a new one. This leads me to belive you didn't read the whole thread, and that you don't grasp the concept that the deimos is an over rated gimped ship that fails to live upto the idea its supposed to be the ultimate close range cruiser.
also the reason people don't complain about the zealot is that it does live upto its promise, and then some, it has a great damage output plus it can field a massive tank at the same time and is still faster then a deimos with a heavy tank.. the deimos can't it can either fit for damage.. or it can fit some gimped tank that kills off its damage output and for a close range ship is slow and about as agile as a hamster thats been nailed to its wheel.
And since when did ASCN have a titan? (and their not an I-win button judging by the ones that was killed on the test server. )
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Sadist
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Posted - 2006.03.10 05:31:00 -
[320]
/signed.
I've made numerous posts about this outrageous imbalance, but so far they have fallen on deaf ears.
Un-nerf deimos now, CCP. +140 PG plz, kthx. --------------- VIP member of the [23]
Quote: - Numbers alone do not win a battle - No, but I bet they help.
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Miklas Laces
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Posted - 2006.03.13 16:12:00 -
[321]
IMO:
a little more powergrid (+50) small reduction in radius (-15)
would be cool and balanced
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Harper04
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Posted - 2006.03.13 18:53:00 -
[322]
Anyone who thinks the deimos is fine doesn't know what they're talking about IMHO...the only way to get a comparable setup to say, a zealot, is to use faction mods at 2-3x the price. Yes, I would know, the last zealot I killed was completely t2 fitted, pulses, plate, heatsinks...the works. If it wasn't for the fact that my setup I was using was worth well over a bil, he woulda bbq'd me. And that's with me landing 11km from him!
Right now, to use a deimos effectively you gotta have the great skills and a fat wallet...much more so than other HAC's it seems .
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Chuu Mei
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Posted - 2006.03.13 19:04:00 -
[323]
Originally by: HUGO DRAX Just give me the agility boost, maybe 30% over the rax and a smaller sig radius [10% less]. I Will be happy with just that.
Indeed, increase agility/acceleration and that is all that she needs, honestly.
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Crellion
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Posted - 2006.03.13 19:29:00 -
[324]
Originally by: Chuu Mei
Originally by: HUGO DRAX Just give me the agility boost, maybe 30% over the rax and a smaller sig radius [10% less]. I Will be happy with just that.
Indeed, increase agility/acceleration and that is all that she needs, honestly.
Obvious really ... blasterboats deal the most dmg at point blank range and negligible dmg if kept at distance... obviously they would have been made the fastest ships (not in top speed pf course but in agility more than anything) of their respective classes...
Making the mattari fastest and giving them more range (despite their less dps) makes no sense. There is a basic flawed design... which devs attempt to redress with the mwd bonus. Unfortunately the recent buffs to tank mean that mwd kills you anyway. Even if at lvl 5% you had 0% cap penalty it would still not be enough... The issue is NOT the cap penalty but the cap usage from the mwd that will invariably kill the tanking ability of the Deimos ... Add to that the cap usage of blasters and the FITTING REQS of mwd (-v- AB or sensor booster II that other HACs put there) and you have the whole issue there ...
The solutions could be:
(1) Giving grid and cpu to Deimos: I dont like it because it would enable abusive set ups. (2) Increase drone bay so that it packs 5 heavies (with no bonuses oc) giving it the advantage the rax had pre RMR... I dont like it either... smells of uber... (3) Substantially decrease the mass-agility of the Deimos (30-40%)... It will still have same base speed so Vaga is still much faster but Deimos comes close behind. Thats the correct approach. It will allow quick approach (ergo no reason to complain for the lack of tank) and commando ops.
[atm you can warp Cerb Eagle Munnin Ishtar Zealot Sacri at range against heavy enemies or against a BS stay out of scram range and run if needed. Vaga can go in close and still run if needed as it is faster webbed than an AB BS for example. Deimos is ******. It has to kill everything if it engages or it will die. For a ship selling at 170 mill this is idiocy. Making it faster, will enable hit and run (slower than Vaga but more powerful) for Deimos and thus make it a much more viable ship in competitive pvp.]
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Harper04
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Posted - 2006.03.13 19:33:00 -
[325]
Originally by: Chuu Mei
Originally by: HUGO DRAX Just give me the agility boost, maybe 30% over the rax and a smaller sig radius [10% less]. I Will be happy with just that.
Indeed, increase agility/acceleration and that is all that she needs, honestly.
Please go mwd just 10-15km, shoot at something, while running even an extremely gimped tank, and watch your cap. After you have done this come back and say that again kthx?
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Harper04
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Posted - 2006.03.13 19:44:00 -
[326]
If you're gonna talk about cap, realize that it's the tank and running the blasters non-stop that are what REALLY hurt you. A good deimos pilot will rarely mwd very far unless it's completely necessary (or against an easy kill) anyways, cause your tank will fail as you hit your target..before you even do that uber dps.
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Kaeten
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Posted - 2006.03.13 19:54:00 -
[327]
I'm glad dash is fighting as the deimos does really suck atm.
ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=259621 |
Asurix
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Posted - 2006.03.13 20:08:00 -
[328]
Deimos better get some love! More cap, more CPU, more grid, more speed, everything, it's so cool to fly yet it sux so badly =)
and ASCN doesn't have a titan, whoever told you that should be killed, along with his brother
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Chuu Mei
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Posted - 2006.03.13 20:14:00 -
[329]
Is it just me, or would anyone else rather take out a Blaster Brutix than a Deimos Blaster boat? I mean damn, the Brutix isn't that far behind in speed and maneuvarability and there is something seriously wrong with that.
Plus, you can pack 7 ions, mwd, ew mods and a descent tank without stairing at your fitting screen for like an hour trying to make things fit. Brutix > Deimos atm.
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Dash Ripcock
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Posted - 2006.03.13 20:16:00 -
[330]
Originally by: Crellion
Originally by: Chuu Mei
Originally by: HUGO DRAX Just give me the agility boost, maybe 30% over the rax and a smaller sig radius [10% less]. I Will be happy with just that.
Indeed, increase agility/acceleration and that is all that she needs, honestly.
Obvious really ... blasterboats deal the most dmg at point blank range and negligible dmg if kept at distance... obviously they would have been made the fastest ships (not in top speed pf course but in agility more than anything) of their respective classes...
Making the mattari fastest and giving them more range (despite their less dps) makes no sense. There is a basic flawed design... which devs attempt to redress with the mwd bonus. Unfortunately the recent buffs to tank mean that mwd kills you anyway. Even if at lvl 5% you had 0% cap penalty it would still not be enough... The issue is NOT the cap penalty but the cap usage from the mwd that will invariably kill the tanking ability of the Deimos ... Add to that the cap usage of blasters and the FITTING REQS of mwd (-v- AB or sensor booster II that other HACs put there) and you have the whole issue there ...
The solutions could be:
(1) Giving grid and cpu to Deimos: I dont like it because it would enable abusive set ups. (2) Increase drone bay so that it packs 5 heavies (with no bonuses oc) giving it the advantage the rax had pre RMR... I dont like it either... smells of uber... (3) Substantially decrease the mass-agility of the Deimos (30-40%)... It will still have same base speed so Vaga is still much faster but Deimos comes close behind. Thats the correct approach. It will allow quick approach (ergo no reason to complain for the lack of tank) and commando ops.
[atm you can warp Cerb Eagle Munnin Ishtar Zealot Sacri at range against heavy enemies or against a BS stay out of scram range and run if needed. Vaga can go in close and still run if needed as it is faster webbed than an AB BS for example. Deimos is ******. It has to kill everything if it engages or it will die. For a ship selling at 170 mill this is idiocy. Making it faster, will enable hit and run (slower than Vaga but more powerful) for Deimos and thus make it a much more viable ship in competitive pvp.]
Some strong points there.
Personally, I think it's plain wrong to have a Tech 2 blaster ship that cannot user Ion Blasters. It simply makes no sense compared with every single other blaster ship in EVE. It wouldn't take much, a bit of PG here and some CPU there. Just enough to make an Ion setup the bread and butter setup but preventing people from flying around in Neutron-fits or heavy tanks.
The point concerning agility is a good one. If the Deimos were able to get to her optimal that much quicker, then the DPS she does now would certainly do the job. One example is the classic Deimos Vs Zealot engagement. As it stands, unless they start at fairly close range, the Deimos is picked apart by the Zealot simply because it can't get under its guns in time - especially if the Zealot is moving away. Considering the roles they have the Deimos should be one of the fastest HACs, not one of the most cumbersome.
Granted she is nearly always fitted with an MWD, but coupled with a high signature radius, low agility and low top speed (for a MWD-fitted HAC) it doesn't really add up. The idea of blasters is risk vs reward. With a Deimos you are comitting to the fight - one-hundred percent. You're in webbing, scrambling and nosfering range. It's about time the reward was worth the price you pay.
Save The Deimos |
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