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| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
DeathWarrior
   |
Posted - 2006.04.04 15:02:00 -
[481]
HIGH-SLOTS :
~~~~~~~~~~~~
> [ 145 | 27] Heavy Ion Blaster II
> [ 145 | 27] Heavy Ion Blaster II
> [ 145 | 27] Heavy Ion Blaster II
> [ 145 | 27] Heavy Ion Blaster II
> [ 145 | 27] Heavy Ion Blaster II
> [ 9 | 15] Small Diminishing Power System Drain I
MED-SLOTS :
~~~~~~~~~~~
> [ 150 | 50] Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
> [ 1 | 22] Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
> [ 1 | 24] Faint Epsilon Warp Prohibitor I
LOW-SLOTS :
~~~~~~~~~~~
> [ 173 | 28] Medium Armor Repairer II
> [ 2 | 30] Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
> [ 2 | 30] Energized Reactive Membrane II
> [ 1 | 30] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
> [ 1 | 30] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
> [ 0 | 2] Local Power Plant Manager: Capacity Power Relay I
This setup gives you a decent tank + damage .. you may not be able to tank for long but it balances out between damage/tank ability.
I use Null and it seems to work fine.
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MOS DEF
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Posted - 2006.04.04 15:10:00 -
[482]
Pretty funny that the cheapest deimos on market is 165 mill right now.
If the ship would onlybe half as ****ty as the constant whining in here makes one think i'd buy one for 80 mill now and be one happy camper.
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Theron Gyrow
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Posted - 2006.04.04 17:45:00 -
[483]
 Originally by: MOS DEF
Pretty funny that the cheapest deimos on market is 165 mill right now.
If the ship would onlybe half as ****ty as the constant whining in here makes one think i'd buy one for 80 mill now and be one happy camper.
The bonuses do look nifty and people don't often crunch the numbers. 
--
Gradient's forum |
Harper04
|
Posted - 2006.04.04 18:59:00 -
[484]
Originally by: Asurix
Originally by: DeathWarrior
HIGH-SLOTS :
~~~~~~~~~~~~
> [ 145 | 27] Heavy Ion Blaster II
> [ 145 | 27] Heavy Ion Blaster II
> [ 145 | 27] Heavy Ion Blaster II
> [ 145 | 27] Heavy Ion Blaster II
> [ 145 | 27] Heavy Ion Blaster II
> [ 9 | 15] Small Diminishing Power System Drain I
MED-SLOTS :
~~~~~~~~~~~
> [ 150 | 50] Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
> [ 1 | 22] Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
> [ 1 | 24] Faint Epsilon Warp Prohibitor I
LOW-SLOTS :
~~~~~~~~~~~
> [ 173 | 28] Medium Armor Repairer II
> [ 2 | 30] Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
> [ 2 | 30] Energized Reactive Membrane II
> [ 1 | 30] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
> [ 1 | 30] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
> [ 0 | 2] Local Power Plant Manager: Capacity Power Relay I
This setup gives you a decent tank + damage .. you may not be able to tank for long but it balances out between damage/tank ability.
I use Null and it seems to work fine.
I have the same but switched 1 mag stab for a 2nd nano II, tank is so fragile....
Almost exactly my setup, cept I swap the cap relay for another nano instead. Mine has some faction mods to keep the cpu usage down. Gotta finish fights fast though to make sure cap isn't as much of an issue.
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2006.04.04 20:56:00 -
[485]
Originally by: DeathWarrior
HIGH-SLOTS :
~~~~~~~~~~~~
> [ 145 | 27] Heavy Ion Blaster II
> [ 145 | 27] Heavy Ion Blaster II
> [ 145 | 27] Heavy Ion Blaster II
> [ 145 | 27] Heavy Ion Blaster II
> [ 145 | 27] Heavy Ion Blaster II
> [ 9 | 15] Small Diminishing Power System Drain I
MED-SLOTS :
~~~~~~~~~~~
> [ 150 | 50] Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
> [ 1 | 22] Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
> [ 1 | 24] Faint Epsilon Warp Prohibitor I
LOW-SLOTS :
~~~~~~~~~~~
> [ 173 | 28] Medium Armor Repairer II
> [ 2 | 30] Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
> [ 2 | 30] Energized Reactive Membrane II
> [ 1 | 30] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
> [ 1 | 30] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
> [ 0 | 2] Local Power Plant Manager: Capacity Power Relay I
This setup gives you a decent tank + damage .. you may not be able to tank for long but it balances out between damage/tank ability.
I use Null and it seems to work fine.
Just a note, RCU+med nos, if you can get it to fit cpu wise, is a better choice. over the relay and small nos IMHO.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Gariuys
|
Posted - 2006.04.04 21:03:00 -
[486]
Originally by: MOS DEF
Pretty funny that the cheapest deimos on market is 165 mill right now.
If the ship would onlybe half as ****ty as the constant whining in here makes one think i'd buy one for 80 mill now and be one happy camper.
There are a lot of cruiser pilots that appreciate the thorax, cause it's a good ship for it's class, and even though it lost it's main selling point. It's still recommended a lot. Deimos is the natural progression from the thorax.
Other point is the quite true fact that finding a platform that is equally mobile or more so then a deimos with the same dps is gonna be a challenge.
It's not like it doesn't have it's uses, it most certainly does. But it's quite limited, and it's not as superior at close combat as you would expect a gallente cruiser to be. ( translation it gets ass wooped by every other short range HAC setup there is )
And yes there is the isthar ( saw someone else comment on it ) But I don't want an ishtar, not that I'm not effective in one quite the contrary but I want my close range knife fighting blaster totting baby to be more lethal then high dps isk sink ( for my wallet anyway ) that gets blown to pieces before it even fires a shot, or runs out of cap long before the enemies tank breaks.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Dreez
|
Posted - 2006.04.05 17:01:00 -
[487]
Im concidering to buy a Diemos or Ishtar soon. But how come
that the Diemos which is built for CQC just as much as the
Vagabond, is SO much slower  .
I obviosly have no experience from flying HACs as stated above,
so i cant really tell if the Vaga handles "like a figate" and
are that much faster. But if that is the case, why is it so ?.
If you (the shipcontructors) make plans for a new t2ship, and
you "know" it will be used mainly with blasters, why wont you
make efforts in making in fast and agile enough to make up
for the shortrange. IŠve seen Vagas in action, and they are
infact, like greased lighting, compared to other ships their
size. IŠve seen Vagas warp out from JIP-Camp with combatfittings
before the friggs could scramble it.
And i cant really tell about the problems with fittings, but
its obvious that the speed needs a boost.
Current Location: After chasing TomB for 2 years,
at the pub, getting a cold beer.
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Sarmaul 2
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Posted - 2006.04.06 12:31:00 -
[488]
while your at it, make the muninn easier to fit too. it's impossible to fit 5 720mm IIs on a ship designed for sniping (it has an optimal range bonus, which is usless for autocannons).
720mm II x 5 with maxed skills: 1377.5pg
Muninn with maxed skills: 1187.5pg. With guns, -190pg left
Muninn with one RCU II: 1365.63. With guns, +128.13 left
So you need to fit 2 RCU IIs in order to fit a cruiser rep on the thing, leaving you with bugger all powergrid for everything else (2 highs, 3 mids and 2 lows to fill with approx 150pg).
sort it out ccp!
___________________________________
Account Cancelled |
Gary Goat
|
Posted - 2006.04.08 00:25:00 -
[489]
bump. Dev's! Where art thou
Devs please read |
twit brent
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Posted - 2006.04.08 01:49:00 -
[490]
Its amazing how devs can reply to a 1-2 page thread and just completely ignore a 17 page thread thats been arround for ages.
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Dash Ripcock
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Posted - 2006.04.08 02:14:00 -
[491]
Edited by: Dash Ripcock on 08/04/2006 02:14:33
Originally by: twit brent
Its amazing how devs can reply to a 1-2 page thread and just completely ignore a 17 page thread thats been arround for ages.
What's even more worrying is that Tuxford recently said in another thread that he wasn't aware that the Deimos needs looking into. This thread is now approaching four months in age, nearly five-hundred replies and seventeen pages. I guess I can see how he missed it...
Save The Deimos |
Mr rooflez
|
Posted - 2006.04.08 05:50:00 -
[492]
I think it's most obvious when you compare it to the brutix.
assuming max skills:
damage:
with a full rack of t2 ions the deimos does 301 dps and the brutix does 331 dps, dronebay is the same.
round one to the brutix.
durability:
the deimos resistance bonuses from being a hac equals fitting 2 50% hardeners on kinetic and 1 on thermal. the brutix 37,5% rep bonus is roughly like fitting 4 37,5% hardeners. if you add up the percentages they're both 150%, so roughly equal. The deimos also has a resistance bonus to its shields, but the brutix has close to twice the shields, armor, and structure. So far you can argue it's a tie, but the deimos is given a slight edge by having a lower sig.
round two to the deimos.
cap:
the deimos both has a better cap recharge and a bonus to mwd, which is essential on both ships for fitting blasters. however the brutix has a 4th mid slot where you can fit a cap injector, which is arguably more valuable than higher base recharge.
round three to the brutix
economy:
round four to the brutix
So all in all it seems the brutix is the (much, much)better ship to use in pvp. The deimos wins in NPCing by having a good cap recharge, low sig, and higher agility.
If you were to compare the deimos to the astarte, which currently is about the same price-wise, you would end up with s on all rounds.
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Dreez
|
Posted - 2006.04.08 09:06:00 -
[493]
Dash. There is a diffrense between not seeing and ignoring.
I dont know about the fittingproblem, but i do hope they sort
out the problem with the speed. I took a look at the stats of
the Vaga and Diemos, and it turned out that the Vaga is 100m/s
faster then the diemos.
Just like its big brother, the blasterthron, its way to slow
to be effective as a CQCship.(3-4bursts with Quad Lif FTL).
Current Location: After chasing TomB for 2 years,
at the pub, getting a cold beer.
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Mather Maelstrom
|
Posted - 2006.04.08 09:17:00 -
[494]
With the subsystem targeting coming up it will all balance out. You will be able to target the *web* or mwd and this will disable any opposing force to the deimos.
(Or was it the other way around =/ )
//No Pro Gallente RP, no Coreli & Cyrene anymore\\ |
Audrea
|
Posted - 2006.04.08 17:49:00 -
[495]
Originally by: twit brent
Its amazing how devs can reply to a 1-2 page thread and just completely ignore a 17 page thread thats been arround for ages.
We dont give up! quality thread, bump! 
From a soon to be HAC pilot, hoping for dev responce before I have to decide wether buy Ishtar or Deimos
----------------------------------------------
All my posts are my own opinions and dont not represent any organization until stated otherwise. |
Durethia
|
Posted - 2006.04.09 11:50:00 -
[496]
While everyone, in favor of fixing the Diemos, has good points... (granted I have yet to read EVERY post), but of the few I have read, one blatant point wasn't addressed.
Why have Neutron Blasters, if you can't fit them? On ANY Gallente ship no less. It's most ghetto to have a mix of weapons, and you can NOT populate a full rack of Neutron Blasters on any given ship with any hope of populating all other mid/low slots that might be available. You throw a MWD on a Thorax, you'll need Advanced Weapons Upgrades lvl 3 before you can fit four Neutrons without a RCU or PDU. It's no wonder, in most markets that T2 Neutron Blasters are cheaper than T2 Ion Blasters... you can't run them. This is extended even for frigate turrets, I can NOT slap four T2 Neutron Blasters on my Enyo or Ishkur, with my current skills, and have anything respectable in the other slots. Most importantly, if you do use Blasters, you MUST have NOS and MUST have MWD, if you can't dictate range, and have close range defense measures (NOS et al), you're using an improper fit. So, most T2 pilots, are sitting on T2 Ion Blasters if they choose to run Blasters... and, yet, something better exists but CCP refuses to make them feasible to use at all. It's not even a dangling carrot, becuase I've talked to pilots who have level 5s in all relevant skills who still can't mount the Neutron Blasters respectably.
While I certainly agree, or speculate as I don't yet fly HAC, that the Diemos might need extra umph... I think the real problem is the power grid requirements for Blasters and MWDs. They do go hand in hand. They need to be lowered, and lowered a lot to be honest. Becuase as it is now, Neutron Blasters are effectively worthless as noone can properly fit them regardless of skills, regardless of ship; to speak nothing of those Gallente ships that are designed to be blaster boats like the Thorax and Diemos....
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2006.04.09 11:53:00 -
[497]
Still no reply? -_-
Well.. This is my hangar right now. Notice no deimos. I guess it'll stay like that unless it gets some love.
Not an attempt to brag, just was too lazy to crop down the whole hangar and just show the gallente heavy assault ship list.
Originally by: KilROCK
I make sigs, evemail me if interested.
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twit brent
|
Posted - 2006.04.09 13:25:00 -
[498]
Originally by: KilROCK
Still no reply? -_-
Well.. This is my hangar right now. Notice no deimos. I guess it'll stay like that unless it gets some love.
Not an attempt to brag, just was too lazy to crop down the whole hangar and just show the gallente heavy assault ship list.
I found my gallente shuttle can actualy make a decent tackler if u get a faction disruptor and orbit at 26km out of nos range and hit drones with rockets and 75 rails.
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Audrea
|
Posted - 2006.04.09 13:30:00 -
[499]
Originally by: KilROCK
Still no reply? -_-
Well.. This is my hangar right now. Notice no deimos. I guess it'll stay like that unless it gets some love.
Not an attempt to brag, just was too lazy to crop down the whole hangar and just show the gallente heavy assault ship list.
nevertheless, nice collection :)
all insured? or u insure only when need to use, as to prevent expiring insurances?
Also would be nice if you shared your ship naming methodology with us 
ps: bump! reply already, devs 
----------------------------------------------
All my posts are my own opinions and dont not represent any organization until stated otherwise. |
KilROCK
|
Posted - 2006.04.09 13:39:00 -
[500]
Edited by: KilROCK on 09/04/2006 13:40:33
Originally by: twit brent
Originally by: KilROCK
Still no reply? -_-
Well.. This is my hangar right now. Notice no deimos. I guess it'll stay like that unless it gets some love.
Not an attempt to brag, just was too lazy to crop down the whole hangar and just show the gallente heavy assault ship list.
I found my gallente shuttle can actualy make a decent tackler if u get a faction disruptor and orbit at 26km out of nos range and hit drones with rockets and 75 rails.
Can do the same with a taranis....
Originally by: Audrea
Also would be nice if you shared your ship naming methodology with us
Errr.. It's hard to explain 
the 3 ishtar need new names because i can't remember what's on them without the special 'names'...
Originally by: KilROCK
I make sigs, evemail me if interested.
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Kunming
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Posted - 2006.04.10 00:18:00 -
[501]
Shameless bump...
Seriously a dev checking out the figures Dash Ripcock presented would be enough, but please give us an answer, we promis to leave you alone... until the next patch
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Lonectzn
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Posted - 2006.04.10 00:52:00 -
[502]
Originally by: KilROCK
Still no reply? -_-
Well.. This is my hangar right now. Notice no deimos. I guess it'll stay like that unless it gets some love.
Not an attempt to brag, just was too lazy to crop down the whole hangar and just show the gallente heavy assault ship list.
I was like 'so w/ever' at that whole list till I spotted the 3 Vagas.
But in effort to stay on topic, I'll sign this thread =)
Deimos does need a little Tender Loving Care (no TLC doesn't stand for Tender Love and Care, so quit it)
-----------------
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Jorund Bork
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Posted - 2006.04.10 00:56:00 -
[503]
Been meaning to sign this for a while now. The Deimos could do with a look at considering how slow it is, and how it handles, for a close range ship. Particularly when compared to other HACS.
We're still waiting for blasters to be looked at as well.....
Dev response would be nice
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Durethia
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Posted - 2006.04.10 01:58:00 -
[504]
Another bump... becuase the PG requirements for Blasters and MWD are out of touch with reality.
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Necrologic
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Posted - 2006.04.10 02:30:00 -
[505]
I'm close to going 35 days out of my way to train for a vaga and t2 proj just so i can find a useful hac to fly.
Please don't make me do this devs. Give us an answer!
*clap* |
master omegadoom
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Posted - 2006.04.10 02:57:00 -
[506]
Bump
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Flipidy Floo
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Posted - 2006.04.10 03:36:00 -
[507]
Lower sig, lower mass are the only things this ship really needs.... but I'd like to see the changes to blasters recently posted before I decide whether it needs more love.
Makes no sense that galante can't fit neutrons when all other races can fit their highest damage close range guns.
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Dash Ripcock
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Posted - 2006.04.10 17:44:00 -
[508]
Here are examples of two ships that fill similar roles: fast and close-range.
Ships
Deimos
PG: 860
CPU: 330
Capacitor: 1100 (1100 with MWD)
Speed: 170ms
Mass: 12MKg
Vagabond
PG: 855
CPU: 395
Capacitor: 850 (637.5 with MWD)
Speed: 242ms
Mass: 10MKg
PG Difference: 5 MW (Deimos has 0.58% more)
CPU Difference: 65 tf (Vaga has 19.7% more)
Capacitor Difference: Deimos has a capacitor 1.73 times the size of a Vaga
Speed Difference: Vaga is 42.4% faster than a Deimos
Mass: Deimos is 20% heavier than a Vaga
Close-Range Weapons
Heavy Ion Blaster II:
PG: 155
CPU: 39
DPS: 0.75
Cap Usage per Second: 1.48
Optimal: 3,000m
Falloff: 4,000m
425MM Autocannon II:
PG: 154
CPU: 25
DPS: 0.616
Cap Usage per Second: 0.267
Optimal: 2,400m
Falloff: 8,000m
PG Difference: 1 MW (Ion uses 0.645% more)
CPU Difference: 14 tf (Ion uses 56% more)
Cap Use Difference: Ions use 5.54 times as much capacitor as Autos
I have highlighted the major differences in italics.
So, the Deimos has quite a lot less CPU than a Vagabond, but its weapons use 56% more CPU to fit than a Vagabond's weapons do. The Deimos has nearly double the capacitor of a Vagabond when fitted with an MWD, yet its guns use up over five times as much capacitor as a Vagabond's do. So from this we can see that the Deimos is not only tougher to fit, but harder to keep going due to higher capacitor needs on the guns...
...which brings me onto the velocity and mass differences. The Deimos has to burn an MWD far more than a Vagabond does due to being far slower and heavier. This means that her capacitor has taken a beating before she even begins to fight, at which point her heavy capacitor weapons use up what's left.
Yes, this is more about blasters than the Deimos. However, I think it highlights why the Deimos suffers in both fitting and agility.
Save The Deimos |
alty mcaltalot
|
Posted - 2006.04.10 17:46:00 -
[509]
Originally by: Dash Ripcock
stuff
if you get the vaga nerfed, I will hire BA to kill you 
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Dash Ripcock
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Posted - 2006.04.10 17:50:00 -
[510]
Originally by: alty mcaltalot
Originally by: Dash Ripcock
stuff
if you get the vaga nerfed, I will hire BA to kill you
I do not want the Vagabond nerfed! I think she's a fantastic ship, stands out amongst the HACs as one of the decent Tech 2 upgrades over the original. What I do want is the Deimos boosted!
Save The Deimos |
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