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Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2005.12.01 11:14:00 - [1] IÆve spent a few hours on the RMR server, and it suddenly dawned on me why the Deimos is getting handed its ass in nearly every HAC and BC fight. ItÆs for two reasons: 1) She cannot dictate range 2) She cannot fit either shield or armour extenders without using up fitting space needed for the MWD and guns LetÆs have a look at the other HACs out there: Ishtar: Plate, can be used at range and packs ECM Eagle: Extender, can easily dictate range, tough shields Cerberus: Extender, can dictate range, selective damage Zealot: Plate, can dictate range Sacrilege: Who needs plates? Muninn: Extender/Plate, can dictate range Vagabond: Extender, fast enough to dictate range or engagement If we include the Deimos like this, she can neither dictate range nor fit an extender. But she has an MWD I hear you cry! Correct, but sheÆs still slower than most of the other HACs who fit one, and she has to get close-in anyway to be effective. The extender is where it really hurts however; there were so many occasions whereby a few more hit-points would have gone a long, long way. Whilst a Battlecruiser is similarly priced build-wise, the skill requirement difference is vast and a Deimos shouldnÆt be so susceptible to them every single time. I donÆt have a problem with having to get in close, but it puts the Deimos in the firing line every time. Stop whining? Yeah sure, thatÆs why I fly my Ishtar and Zealot all the time but leave my Deimos at home. I have adapted, I use something else, but there shouldnÆt be a reason why I and many like me refuse to take their multi-million isk blaster ships out on patrol. TheyÆre simply not balanced, and there is a reason why I hardly ever see another Deimos these days. The upcoming RMR patch, which makes the Battlecruisers ever more powerful and boosts the previous weak link in the chainû the Caldari HACs û makes the situation even worse for our camouflaged, phallic friend. So, what to do? I personally feel a little powergrid would help dividends. The difference between the powergrid on a Deimos and a Thorax? 40. The difference between the powergrid on a Zealot and an Omen? 360 û And that is for two extra low slots i.e. a hardener, a heat sink or perhaps a plate. The Deimos has to fill up another high-slot and a low slot. That means weapons, and as it stands a Deimos cannot fit an MWD with Ions and have something remotely useful in her 6th high-slot. The extra powergrid would make her able to choose her fitting: more damage or more defence. At the moment, sheÆs lumped with the former and itÆs evidently not enough. The numbers I leave to you, but something needs to be done. The Firing Range
Kurenin	Posted - 2005.12.01 11:16:00 - [2] Edited by: Kurenin on 01/12/2005 11:19:24 Absolute rubbish. No one HAC is better than another, it all comes down to setups. Though with this said, there is a worst HAC - the Sacrilege. Also, this thread is mainly about Plates. Plates imbalance all setups, and saying stupid things like "Deimos can't fit plate, mwd and decent guns" is a stupid stupid misguided thing to say. You cannot fit a plate, mwd, and decent guns to ANY HAC. This is totally besides the point that plates are incredibly imbalanced. ----- Interestingly, other people know me better than I know myself.
Ortu Konsinni	Posted - 2005.12.01 11:20:00 - [3] Wasn't RMR supposed to destroy the plate/extender argument that other HACs have going for them, though? What about the mass or sig penalty incurred by fitting a plate resp. extender? Was it scrapped after all? --- Ortu Konsinni Chief diplomat - French Force Alliance --- EVE Player Ship Gallery
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2005.12.01 11:21:00 - [4] Originally by: Kurenin Absolute rubbish. No one HAC is better than another, it all comes down to setups. Though with this said, there is a worst HAC - the Sacrilege. Do you fly a Deimos? Exactly what setup would you recommend with crippled powergrid, hardly any drones and no ECM? A 200mm setup? Fly a Zealot. A blaster setup? I have been flying the Deimos with blasters for nearly 11 months, and she is worse off than ever before. Everybody will be fitting for a tank when the RMR patch arrives, tanks that can break a Deimos before she can take them down. You mention that no HAC is better than another. Then why oh why did CCP adjust the Caldari HACs? Regardless - saying the Sacrilege is the worst immediately indicates that balance isn't always guaranteed, making your opening statement rather shaky. The Firing Range
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2005.12.01 11:22:00 - [5] Originally by: Ortu Konsinni Wasn't RMR supposed to destroy the plate/extender argument that other HACs have going for them, though? What about the mass or sig penalty incurred by fitting a plate resp. extender? Was it scrapped after all? You can still easily fit a 1600mm plate to a HAC - they're a little slower, that's about it. The signature penalty isn't worth crying over on the shield extenders. The Deimos can't fit either; guess which HAC gets slapped around consistently on Singularity these days? The Firing Range
Ortu Konsinni	Posted - 2005.12.01 11:25:00 - [6] I didn't test anything plate-related, so thanks for the info. I was worried the time of my Ishtar with 5600 armor HP was over. --- Ortu Konsinni Chief diplomat - French Force Alliance --- EVE Player Ship Gallery
Kurenin	Posted - 2005.12.01 11:30:00 - [7] Originally by: Dash Ripcock Do you fly a Deimos? Yes. Originally by: Dash Ripcock Exactly what setup would you recommend with crippled powergrid, hardly any drones and no ECM? A 200mm setup? Fly a Zealot. You don't need plates or ecm to play eve. You can fit a very viable 250mm setup, or, actually fit blasters as it is designed. I also do fly a Zealot, and I often notice the fact that it has 0 drone bay. 0. Originally by: Dash Ripcock A blaster setup? I have been flying the Deimos with blasters for nearly 11 months, and she is worse off than ever before. Everybody will be fitting for a tank when the RMR patch arrives, tanks that can break a Deimos before she can take them down. ... which is why it is the most damaging HAC. You haven't explained why everyone will be tanking, you haven't explained why the Deimos is "worse off". Originally by: Dash Ripcock You mention that no HAC is better than another. Then why oh why did CCP adjust the Caldari HACs? Regardless - saying the Sacrilege is the worst immediately indicates that balance isn't always guaranteed, making your opening statement rather shaky. The Cerberus is getting changed, the Eagle is not. The Cerberus does poor damage, but is more versatile than any other HAC, sans Ishtar. I would guess that it is being boosted mainly due to public demand. ----- Interestingly, other people know me better than I know myself.
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2005.12.01 11:32:00 - [8] Originally by: Kurenin Also, this thread is mainly about Plates. Plates imbalance all setups, and saying stupid things like "Deimos can't fit plate, mwd and decent guns" is a stupid stupid misguided thing to say. You cannot fit a plate, mwd, and decent guns to ANY HAC. This is totally besides the point that plates are incredibly imbalanced. The Zealot can fit a plate and use Focused lasers, why can't a Deimos at least have a usable setup with a 1600mm plate? Why is there such a small divide between the Deimos and the Thorax when it comes to powergrid? I am not arguing for the Deimos to have big guns, and MWD, and a plate. I am arguing that she should be able to choose to do so, and if she decides to go all out damage, allow her to fill her high-slots with decent weaponry without needing powergrid upgrades in the lows. The Firing Range
Meridius	Posted - 2005.12.01 11:32:00 - [9] Edited by: Meridius on 01/12/2005 11:33:50 You guys have the Ishtar. Until everyone else gets 2 good HAC's i really don't hope to see any Deimos improvements. The Deimos is good and is certainly better then the Muninn and Sacrilege. The Gallente have the best pair of HACs you can fly, skill point for skill point. ________________________________________________________
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.12.01 11:36:00 - [10] I never fit a 1600mm on a deimos anyway. It gimps the ship to no end, utterly useless ship once you fit that. I use an 800mm II plate, or none at all. Then again, the 800mm II fits with 5 heavy ions and an ABII quite decently. Once you need the mwd you're screwed. An mwd setup means no plate, unless you go for electron II's and an 800mm plate. Yes that means deimos is maybe one of the weakest hac's in hac v hac or hac v bc, generally speaking. But how strange is that ? Tell me, what ship can be designed for short range, yet be cap hungry with a low cap, have low hitpoint total, and be grid poor and still function as a short range beast ? None can, it's that easy. Of course, this only gets most ibvious in 1v1, in 3v1 a blasterthron for example still works pretty fine, as does a deimos. Sometimes, in 1v1 it'll work fine too, for example when youve got a tracking disruptor on that mega and end up at 7km from a geddon with pulses. In general however, blasterboats are too weak to really function well. Which is why I'm glad to to see the damage bonus of the deimos work on rails as well. _______________________________________________ Power to the players !

Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2005.12.01 11:42:00 - [11] Originally by: Kurenin Originally by: Dash Ripcock Exactly what setup would you recommend with crippled powergrid, hardly any drones and no ECM? A 200mm setup? Fly a Zealot. You don't need plates or ecm to play eve. You can fit a very viable 250mm setup, or, actually fit blasters as it is designed. I also do fly a Zealot, and I often notice the fact that it has 0 drone bay. 0. A 250mm setup on a Deimos? With her powergrid - are you kidding? No ECM? Are we playing the same game here? I'd like to see what you can kill when your opponent either has a tracking disruptor (which a lot of people use) and/or keeps his range because you simply cannot dictate it. You'll have support? Well, I am talking about solo engagements. And yes, I am talking about blasters setups here. You move in for the kill, get webbed and/or nossed and you can't chew through their tank before they get to you first. As for the Zealot, she can dictate range more easily than a Deimos or use a plate. The Deimos doesn't live in such a world of choice. That said, the Zealot on RMR is seriously hurting at the moment due to the stacking penalty on damage mods, but I will leave that for Istvaan or Meridius to discuss. Originally by: Kurenin Originally by: Dash Ripcock A blaster setup? I have been flying the Deimos with blasters for nearly 11 months, and she is worse off than ever before. Everybody will be fitting for a tank when the RMR patch arrives, tanks that can break a Deimos before she can take them down. ... which is why it is the most damaging HAC. You haven't explained why everyone will be tanking, you haven't explained why the Deimos is "worse off". Let's see - improved hitpoints, damage controls, more than three damage mods makes little to no difference so people are fitting tanks in their low-slots, capacitor booster charges take less space so people can keep their tank running for longer, Battlecruisers with more slots - the list goes on. Originally by: Kurenin Originally by: Dash Ripcock You mention that no HAC is better than another. Then why oh why did CCP adjust the Caldari HACs? Regardless - saying the Sacrilege is the worst immediately indicates that balance isn't always guaranteed, making your opening statement rather shaky. The Cerberus is getting changed, the Eagle is not. The Cerberus does poor damage, but is more versatile than any other HAC,EVE Online \| EVE Insider \| Forums
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2005.12.01 11:42:00 - [12] Originally by: Kurenin Originally by: Dash Ripcock Exactly what setup would you recommend with crippled powergrid, hardly any drones and no ECM? A 200mm setup? Fly a Zealot. You don't need plates or ecm to play eve. You can fit a very viable 250mm setup, or, actually fit blasters as it is designed. I also do fly a Zealot, and I often notice the fact that it has 0 drone bay. 0. A 250mm setup on a Deimos? With her powergrid - are you kidding? No ECM? Are we playing the same game here? I'd like to see what you can kill when your opponent either has a tracking disruptor (which a lot of people use) and/or keeps his range because you simply cannot dictate it. You'll have support? Well, I am talking about solo engagements. And yes, I am talking about blasters setups here. You move in for the kill, get webbed and/or nossed and you can't chew through their tank before they get to you first. As for the Zealot, she can dictate range more easily than a Deimos or use a plate. The Deimos doesn't live in such a world of choice. That said, the Zealot on RMR is seriously hurting at the moment due to the stacking penalty on damage mods, but I will leave that for Istvaan or Meridius to discuss. Originally by: Kurenin Originally by: Dash Ripcock A blaster setup? I have been flying the Deimos with blasters for nearly 11 months, and she is worse off than ever before. Everybody will be fitting for a tank when the RMR patch arrives, tanks that can break a Deimos before she can take them down. ... which is why it is the most damaging HAC. You haven't explained why everyone will be tanking, you haven't explained why the Deimos is "worse off". Let's see - improved hitpoints, damage controls, more than three damage mods makes little to no difference so people are fitting tanks in their low-slots, capacitor booster charges take less space so people can keep their tank running for longer, Battlecruisers with more slots - the list goes on. Originally by: Kurenin Originally by: Dash Ripcock You mention that no HAC is better than another. Then why oh why did CCP adjust the Caldari HACs? Regardless - saying the Sacrilege is the worst immediately indicates that balance isn't always guaranteed, making your opening statement rather shaky. The Cerberus is getting changed, the Eagle is not. The Cerberus does poor damage, but is more versatile than any other HAC, sans Ishtar. I would guess that it is being boosted mainly due to public demand. The Eagle is getting the Moa's new shield resistance bonus. Once again, tank. The Firing Range
Lomong	Posted - 2005.12.01 11:42:00 - [13] Dash: Yeah, I've been saying for quite a while that the Deimos does have problems(problems that the RMR Thorax will have too), because it has such a hard time dictating range(Doesn't help that a lot of noobs always go "it's got a MWD bonus....."). The problem is, even without a plate, the Deimos is slow and has crappy agility and high mass, with just a smidgen more armour than the Muninn, and quite a bit less armour than the Zealot. My suggestion is to maybe increase both Thorax and Deimos velocity, but definitely to decrease the mass down to 11 500 000 kg, maybe even down to 11M straight. Another approach would be to give it more armour befitting its mass, give it a bit more cap and then leave the rest as it now.
Lomong	Posted - 2005.12.01 11:42:00 - [14] Dash: Yeah, I've been saying for quite a while that the Deimos does have problems(problems that the RMR Thorax will have too), because it has such a hard time dictating range(Doesn't help that a lot of noobs always go "it's got a MWD bonus....."). The problem is, even without a plate, the Deimos is slow and has crappy agility and high mass, with just a smidgen more armour than the Muninn, and quite a bit less armour than the Zealot. My suggestion is to maybe increase both Thorax and Deimos velocity, but definitely to decrease the mass down to 11 500 000 kg, maybe even down to 11M straight. Another approach would be to give it more armour befitting its mass, give it a bit more cap and then leave the rest as it now.
Tyrande	Posted - 2005.12.01 11:56:00 - [15] People running around like headless chickens amuses me. I guess this sig is sort of out of date now huh?
Kunming	Posted - 2005.12.01 12:10:00 - [16] I dont have a deimos on TQ (damn price) but I tested different setups on SiSi lately. As a conclusion I agree with Dash here, first thing that catched my eye was its powergrid, if I wanted to fit full Ion IIs, an MWD and an armor rep I often ended up with fitting PDUs, RCUs or even both at the same time (I have adv weapons upgrades lvl 4 fyi), which is kinda dissapointing compared to a zealot for example. Sure the amarr ship should have less of a problem with PG, but if I always have to fit a PG mod on my deimos there IS a problem IMO. On a different note I always had cap problems, half my cap was already empty cause of the MWD when I got in range so I felt the urge to fit a med NOS (not really to suck the cap of my target, but to keep mine from drying empty) which caused even more PG problems. I dont have a problem with fitting short range (most fun pvp is short range imo); this ship is meant to be a blaster boat but it lacks alot of things to fit its role properly. It has already alot of disadvantages, the high mass -> lack of agility and speed (like the vagabond), low PG -> lack of fitting a tank or full weapons rack. I tried fitting an ECM jammer or remote dampner (instead of the web/scrambler) to give me some time to close on my enemy without getting to half armor already, but its kind of a pointless quest to use this ship as its meant to be.. the ultimate blaster boat. I'm gonna try rail fittings next, which means I will ignore one of its major bonus'. But why fit rails on a deimos when we have an eagle which is many times better with rails than the deimos. I believe first of all the deimos needs more PG and maybe a reduction in mass. I ask everyone who disagrees, what the deimos has better compared to a vagabond or zealot (similar kind of design)? Website Killboard
Alex Harumichi	Posted - 2005.12.01 12:17:00 - [17] Originally by: Kunming I believe first of all the deimos needs more PG and maybe a reduction in mass. Totally agree.
Jizzy B	Posted - 2005.12.01 12:18:00 - [18] Edited by: **y B on 01/12/2005 12:19:37 Actually i agree up to a point. Deimos will probably lose in a 1on1 with any HAC, even a Cerb can tank a Deimos in the right tank it long enough to kill it quite easily with a certain setup. and it looks like a Muninn setup for shortrange eats a Deimos up. Because it too slow with an mwd to get into the right range it fails against faster HACS or even cruisers, but then again a 200/250mm rail setup is nice in some of those cases The Deimos is also quite vulnerable to for example a Ferox Though in my experience the minmatar HAC's are even more so. (ferox kills vaga or long range muninn..) However against battleships that do not fit nosferatus or guns that can hit at that range the Deimos does have an advantage, it can currently kill an npc-ing apoc tank for example which isn't so bad. But still, i must say that i like the Thorax much better than the Deimos currently and would infact much rather have liked the Deimos to get bonuses to small hybrids, even with the dronebay nerf though that sucks as well. That would allow the Deimos to fit a 1600plate, a bit longer time to use the cap etc. The Deimos isn't as cap stable as the other HACs simply and it's PG isn't nearly good enough for medium sized blasters.
LUKEC	Posted - 2005.12.01 12:19:00 - [19] Originally by: Meridius Edited by: Meridius on 01/12/2005 11:33:50 You guys have the Ishtar. Until everyone else gets 2 good HAC's i really don't hope to see any Deimos improvements. The Deimos is good and is certainly better then the Muninn and Sacrilege. The Gallente have the best pair of HACs you can fly, skill point for skill point. Well, munin with dual 1800mm ACs or 220mm acs and 1600mm plate is definitely tough bite for deimos. It has ~3x more hp, and resists are not much worse in the end. It is slower with AB than deimos with mwd, but who cares, 8km falloff is more than ions have :) Oh and those acs track better than any blasters, especially on munin. Originally by: WildCard "NOW Flyzone" before after Be back in a year or so
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.12.01 12:59:00 - [20] Deimos has been the weakest hac since they where released, and can be killed by well any other HAC really, besides the Eagle, kin/therm+range doesn't break a deimos anytime soon. Cerberus can't either, when using kinetic missiles. Sacrilige ain't weak, just misunderstood, and muninn is a powerhouse, just not used to full potential by most ( there isn't a HAC I haven't blown up in a Muninn ) ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool

Scalor Valentis	Posted - 2005.12.01 13:19:00 - [21] Edited by: Scalor Valentis on 01/12/2005 13:22:36 Deimos: Can dish out formitable damage, but run out of cap just when it reach enemy strukture. After what it dies to drones. Originally by: **y B However against battleships that do not fit nosferatus or guns ... you mean, miner BS? As soon as RMR hits, 2 nos is mandatory must-have**, and 4 nos is recomendable on any engadements that take plase inside 20 to 40km.
Meeko Gloom	Posted - 2005.12.01 13:23:00 - [22] Edited by: Meeko Gloom on 01/12/2005 13:23:26 Originally by: Gariuys Deimos has been the weakest hac since they where released, and can be killed by well any other HAC really, besides the Eagle, kin/therm+range doesn't break a deimos anytime soon. Cerberus can't either, when using kinetic missiles. Sacrilige ain't weak, just misunderstood, and muninn is a powerhouse, just not used to full potential by most ( there isn't a HAC I haven't blown up in a Muninn ) If its the weakest then y is the demand so high??? ________________________________________________ Pls Dont Flame Me Cuz I DONT Give A **** Demons of Razgis
Scalor Valentis	Posted - 2005.12.01 13:27:00 - [23] Originally by: Meeko Gloom If its the weakest then y is the demand so high??? It is higly over-rated due the dual damage bonus. I have actualy never seen a sucsesseful deimos preformance in any PVP situation, apart of my own personal experiments with the ship. oh but ive seen tonns of zelots and ishtars
Meeko Gloom	Posted - 2005.12.01 13:30:00 - [24] Edited by: Meeko Gloom on 01/12/2005 13:31:31 Originally by: Scalor Valentis Originally by: Meeko Gloom If its the weakest then y is the demand so high??? It is higly over-rated due the dual damage bonus. I have actualy never seen a sucsesseful deimos preformance in any PVP situation, apart of my own personal experiments with the ship. oh but ive seen tonns of zelots and ishtars Ive seen one deimos pwn three raven with cruises at the same time in jita I quess they were fitted in a gank setup with no nos ________________________________________________ Pls Dont Flame Me Cuz I DONT Give A **** Demons of Razgis
Eyeshadow	Posted - 2005.12.01 13:31:00 - [25] Originally by: Scalor Valentis It is higly over-rated due the dual damage bonus. I have actualy never seen a sucsesseful deimos preformance in any PVP situation, apart of my own personal experiments with the ship. oh but ive seen tonns of zelots and ishtars You need to go watch one of my vids: Linky Though it must be said, most of the combat is against Imperium & FA, but it is possible to do some damage with a deimos when your solo And yes, the deimos does suck as a solopwnmobile. In a small gang though it is great as a damage dealer. And it is over rated aswell I agree with Dash though, it needs more grid and a mass reduction so its more agile. ATM, a rax is superior with its 8 hvy drones. It needs more grid + more speed. A zealot with a plate is faster than a deimos without one. Thats meh imo My Latest Vid (16/11/05)
Scalor Valentis	Posted - 2005.12.01 13:31:00 - [26] Originally by: Meeko Gloom Originally by: Scalor Valentis Originally by: Meeko Gloom If its the weakest then y is the demand so high??? It is higly over-rated due the dual damage bonus. I have actualy never seen a sucsesseful deimos preformance in any PVP situation, apart of my own personal experiments with the ship. oh but ive seen tonns of zelots and ishtars Ive seen one deimos pwn three raven with cruises at the same time in jita ive pwned Raven, Tempest and typhoon 1 vs 3 in my AC tempest. what are you trying to say?
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.12.01 13:34:00 - [27] Edited by: Gariuys on 01/12/2005 13:36:19 Originally by: Meeko Gloom Edited by: Meeko Gloom on 01/12/2005 13:23:26 Originally by: Gariuys Deimos has been the weakest hac since they where released, and can be killed by well any other HAC really, besides the Eagle, kin/therm+range doesn't break a deimos anytime soon. Cerberus can't either, when using kinetic missiles. Sacrilige ain't weak, just misunderstood, and muninn is a powerhouse, just not used to full potential by most ( there isn't a HAC I haven't blown up in a Muninn ) If its the weakest then y is the demand so high??? My god people are stupid, demand is high cause it's overhyped and based on the rax ( but the ishtar has the heavy drones, not the deimos, and a rax without heavies is deadweight ) Beyond that, it's based on one of two cruisers that where usefull back in the days before the HACs, so people where used to the hull and the skills etc... And cause it's the most damaging cruiser by far, 2 mag fields get me including drones over 600 raw dps... That's a full gankalot but with a tank... people are impressed by that, and damage is king ( for now still anyways ), but that doesn't mean it's enough to make it a competitive hac compaired to the other HACs. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
ThunderGodThor	Posted - 2005.12.01 13:37:00 - [28] I have to agree with most of what has been said here. Been saying for a while about the rax pg and the deimos pg after the patch is a joke. I agree that it is to slow and lumbering for a blaster boat. And when you fit a mwd say bye bye to that cap. And of course after the patch every one can fit at least a partal tank because of the stacking changes. Over all the Deimos becomes stupidly weak compaired to what it is now. Pg should be increased, increase cap, make it faster more agil. 2 of those things need to be done and also I agree fully that the sac cerberis and eagle need to be looked into as they are also on the weak side.
pk blinder	Posted - 2005.12.01 13:49:00 - [29] Folks have always had issues with the Thorax, especially its cripplingly low PG, and the Deimos is just a big brother with the same issues. Every time CCP have been requested to adjust Thorax, they have pointed to its huge drone bay and 8 Heavy Drones = balanced. The principle has always been to MWD into close range, scramble and web your opponent (tough to do that in most other medium or long range Cruiser / HAC set ups)then unleash the drones. So a focus on speed and tank, which the 1600mm plate and MWD set up exemplified. Fitting 150mm railguns gave reasonable damage. With the coming drone changes, there may be reason to re-evaluate. I would certainly prefer to see the Deimos a bit quicker considering it's close range design. But I expect CCP will uphold the principle of not being able to fit full rack of medium blasters. And yes, I know Zealot (and others) can outdamage Deimos, but only if it can track. It has no drone bay or missiles, so is a 1 trick pony. PK
Crusari	Posted - 2005.12.01 13:53:00 - [30] Used to fly the deimos aswell a lot, but I had to fit electrons to get a decent setup (imo you need ions to do what the deimos was intended to do, pure damage). I've switched over to an ishtar, because it's so much more versatile and faster. The deimos being slow and sluggish does not fit in getting close fast and do damage which was the reason I've lost enough fights with a deimos already. Even in fast assault gangs I'm usually one of the slowest ships and that's just crap when I'm still trying to get close to my enemy 30km away while the rest is already there for ages. So now I'm using a railsetup when I'm bigger gangs, because getting close in bigger fights means a lot of times half into armor before I even get there.

Denrace	Posted - 2005.12.01 13:54:00 - [31] For heavens sake, why are you complaining about the most damaging cruiser in the game? Hell, the Deimos can throw out more raw DPS than most battleships. Get over it! ____________________________________________
Lomong	Posted - 2005.12.01 13:57:00 - [32] Originally by: Denrace For heavens sake, why are you complaining about the most damaging cruiser in the game? Hell, the Deimos can throw out more raw DPS than most battleships. Get over it! Raw DPS is useless paper statistics. What matters is the ability to bring that to bear on a target. Which is what the complaints are about.
Eyeshadow	Posted - 2005.12.01 14:06:00 - [33] Originally by: Denrace For heavens sake, why are you complaining about the most damaging cruiser in the game? Hell, the Deimos can throw out more raw DPS than most battleships. Get over it! Its not the damage output that is in question My Latest Vid (16/11/05)
Chronus26	Posted - 2005.12.01 14:48:00 - [34] Edited by: Chronus26 on 01/12/2005 14:49:37 I was shocked when I came to try and invent a fitting for a Deimos in ship fitter, with my skills, which aren't poor but admittendly not top notch either, I could't fill all of the slots. Ther just wasn't enough Grid and CPU to get the job done. I understand that you shouldn't be able to fit every ship in the game with whatever the hell you want, but shouldn't what is supposed to be THE ultimate blaster ship be able to fit at least a full rack of Ion blasters? and a simple tank of an EXP hardner and a repairer... And you also pretty much NEED a MWD. I agree with what Dash says, along with comments other have added, the Deimos could do with a little adjustment, CPU and Grid wise at the least. Nobody's calling into question the damage the Deimos can put out, what is being questioned however is the Deimos' ability to use this high damage output effectivly in combat. EDIT: Spelling correction, my appologies.. -----
LUKEC	Posted - 2005.12.01 15:13:00 - [35] deimos would need ~200more pg and 30more cpu, because atm... your versatility is limited to ion blasters or electrons + 800mm plate and pick of drone type. Anyway: more pg, more cpu, more CAP... especially the last one. Damage is ok, but still not good enough when compared to vagabond with 220mm acs, 10+km falloff and 5dmg mods. Oh and they are also able to fit nosf on vaga... along with large shield extender... Bleh... i guess it is not only the ship but also guns, which have a bit too high fitting reqs. And just another thing: demand... hi dps and good kin/th tank makes it ultimate npc ship for 50% 0.0 space. Originally by: WildCard "NOW Flyzone" before after Be back in a year or so
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2005.12.01 16:15:00 - [36] Edited by: Dash Ripcock on 01/12/2005 16:16:23 Here are some numbers concerning the difference in ship fittings (PG/CPU): Zealot/Omen: 360/65 Sacrilege/Maller: 100/40 Deimos/Thorax: 40/30 Ishtar/Vexor: 25/15 Muninn/Rupture: 90/30 Vagabond/Stabber: 155/95 Eagle/Moa: 95/78 Cerberus/Caracal: 105/90 By simply looking at those simple numbers, we can see that the Deimos (Ishtar aside) benefits the least fitting-wise from all of the other HACs. Great, we get an extra 40 powergrid and 30 CPU units to fill a high-slot and a low-slot. No wonder you see countless pilots struggling to fit the mid-range gun (Ions) onto their Tech 2 ship. With regards to the Ishtar, her lack of fitting is made up for with an absolutely enormous drone bay, as well as being an ECM/Tank platform rather than a fist fighter. The Deimos has the same drone bay as the Thorax in this respect. Considering that the Megathron, a Tech 1 ship, can fit a rack of Ion IIs without a hiccup whereby the Deimos a Tech 2 ship can't without power upgrades speaks for itself. This is supposed to be the deadliest cruiser under 5Km - let's make her that way. This has obviously struck a chord with disgruntled Deimos pilots - you have Eyeshadow and Gariuys, both established Deimos veterans agreeing that she needs more powercore, CPU and agility. The Firing Range
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.12.01 16:20:00 - [37] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 01/12/2005 16:24:10 I doubt that simple comparisons like this are really meaningful, as you have to take extra slots (in particular highslots) into account. Some hac get an extra turret hardpoint for instance (muninn) and others do not but have an utility slot instead (zealot, cerberus)... Or, maybe did you take that into account already? Edit: i'm not challenging your point, just the method. Med blasters are a pain to fit Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. --- Spreadsheet - Damage @ range.
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2005.12.01 16:29:00 - [38] Originally by: Naughty Boy Edited by: Naughty Boy on 01/12/2005 16:24:10 I doubt that simple comparisons like this are really meaningful, as you have to take extra slots (in particular highslots) into account. Some hac get an extra turret hardpoint for instance (muninn) and others do not but have an utility slot instead (zealot, cerberus)... Or, maybe did you take that into account already? Edit: i'm not challenging your point, just the method. Med blasters are a pain to fit Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. Regarding slots - it's simple. The Deimos has a 6th high-slot and low slot, ideally for another gun and a damage modification (in order to live up to the blaster boat ideal). The gun (even an Electron II) uses up more than that extra powergrid straight away, as well as the CPU. Now - what do you do with that extra low slot? Simply put - she's a bugger to fit. The Firing Range
Hllaxiu	Posted - 2005.12.01 16:39:00 - [39] Edited by: Hllaxiu on 01/12/2005 16:40:22 Originally by: Naughty Boy Edited by: Naughty Boy on 01/12/2005 16:24:10 I doubt that simple comparisons like this are really meaningful, as you have to take extra slots (in particular highslots) into account. Some hac get an extra turret hardpoint for instance (muninn) and others do not but have an utility slot instead (zealot, cerberus)... Or, maybe did you take that into account already? Edit: i'm not challenging your point, just the method. Med blasters are a pain to fit Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. I haven't used 6 high slots on my deimos in months! It might as well have 5, you can't fit anything! The funny thing about gallente HACs is that the Deimos is a good ganksquad member and a poor solo pwnmobile and the Ishtar is the exact opposite. PS, Ishtar isn't going to be the solopwnmobile after RMR, the Curse has 5 heavy drones, drone damage bonus, resists, and bonuses to both tracking disruptors and nosferatus/neutralizers. That thing will eat ALL HACs for a light snack.
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.12.01 16:39:00 - [40] Originally by: Dash Ripcock Regarding slots - it's simple. The Deimos has a 6th high-slot and low slot, ideally for another gun and a damage modification (in order to live up to the blaster boat ideal). The gun (even an Electron II) uses up more than that extra powergrid straight away, as well as the CPU. Now - what do you do with that extra low slot? Simply put - she's a bugger to fit. Yeah, i know that. What i was trying to say is that you have to account in your comparison, for every hac, the additional number of slots (and their nature, and the requirement of stuffs "supposed" to be fitted there) along with the increase in powergrid and cpu. That might not have been clear in my post though. I'll try looking at it by myself and post what i get. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. --- Spreadsheet - Damage @ range.

Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2005.12.01 16:47:00 - [41] Edited by: Dash Ripcock on 01/12/2005 16:48:01 Originally by: Naughty Boy Originally by: Dash Ripcock Regarding slots - it's simple. The Deimos has a 6th high-slot and low slot, ideally for another gun and a damage modification (in order to live up to the blaster boat ideal). The gun (even an Electron II) uses up more than that extra powergrid straight away, as well as the CPU. Now - what do you do with that extra low slot? Simply put - she's a bugger to fit. Yeah, i know that. What i was trying to say is that you have to account in your comparison, for every hac, the additional number of slots (and their nature, and the requirement of stuffs "supposed" to be fitted there) along with the increase in powergrid and cpu. That might not have been clear in my post though. I'll try looking at it by myself and post what i get. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. I could, but the other HACs all benefit from a fairly standard boost. The only noticeable exception is the Zealot and the Ishtar, high and low respectively. The former because it does what the Amarr do best - lasers and armour with no considering for silly things like ECM or drones. The Ishtar I have already mentioned. As it stands, the Deimos stands out amongst all of the other HACs for having a very small boost, whereas the others are all (roughly) similar. Considering she's a gunboat that requires an MWD, this makes very little sense at all. The Firing Range
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.12.01 16:52:00 - [42] Originally by: Dash Ripcock I could, but the other HACs all benefit from a fairly standard boost. Makes sense to me, but i'll do it anyway. The idea is that sometimes CCP adds a gun (crusader/muninn style) instead of a damage bonus, so the comparison "should" be a bit deeper than that to show exactly what's going on. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. --- Spreadsheet - Damage @ range.
Edhel	Posted - 2005.12.01 16:55:00 - [43] Originally by: Denrace For heavens sake, why are you complaining about the most damaging cruiser in the game? Hell, the Deimos can throw out more raw DPS than most battleships. Get over it! Any ship with better range will hit the deimos many times before it gets within range.. so the raw dps isn't that damaging.
Eyeshadow	Posted - 2005.12.01 16:59:00 - [44] The problem is, the rax is already the weakest tier 3 cruiser. It has the least amount of slots, and the lowest grid. This was made up for on the rax by its drone bay. The deimos doesnt have the drone bay, and it was boosted to HAC form by more or less the same as the other HACs, except that it was already sub par, and is even more so in the HAC department. The fact that a Deimos is SLOWER than a thorax is just ghey Once RMR hits, the deimos will have 40 extra grid, with which to fill a high and a low. Why bother with it when u can get a ship for 7mil instead of 150? A zealot, muninn and vagabond all do the close range thing better than a deimos, and the deimos is supposed to be THE best up close cruiser. Whether the problem is with the boat, or the weapons, is up for debate (going by the fact that blasterthron's suck too, id say its blasters) but something needs to be done to it My Latest Vid (16/11/05)
Capitan Harlock	Posted - 2005.12.01 17:00:00 - [45] Originally by: ***y B Edited by: ***y B on 01/12/2005 12:19:37 Actually i agree up to a point. Deimos will probably lose in a 1on1 with any HAC, even a Cerb can tank a Deimos in the right tank it long enough to kill it quite easily with a certain setup. and it looks like a Muninn setup for shortrange eats a Deimos up. Well this is not true. I was testing my deimos with 5x ions 6x dmg mod, vs a cerberus with gist x large shield booster and 2 hardener if i remember well (remember cerb have good resist vs deimos damage) the fight was made 5 time, first from 10km, than 20 than 30, than 40, than 50, and well, everytime i stopped my drones + guns at the end of cerb armor, unlukly the 5th time i blowed up the cerb. The damage a deimos can dish out is not only the raw dps, remember the tracking difference from a gankageddon and a deimos, 700dps is about 1400dmg every shot of all guns, and it is about every 2 sec.... 1400dmg every 2 sec is not so bad. Btw, the deimos still need more powergrid, a zealot is way more balanced and simpler to fly and fit, the speed is at same stupid just beacause one thing: The deimos is the slower hac just beacause it have mwd bonus, otherwise would be overpowered. This is stupid, how damn a engeneer would plan a ship with mwd bonus but heavyer and slower than the counterpart? would be totaly stupid. And 40 grid difference from rax to deimos is ridicolous.
Megadon	Posted - 2005.12.01 17:02:00 - [46] Well, if you've trained up to fly Gallente HACS and then were silly enough to fall for the looks and hype of the Deimos and not fly an Ishtar...... If you ask me, it's Darwin at work here and we all need to step aside and let nature take its course.
Megadon	Posted - 2005.12.01 17:04:00 - [47] Originally by: Eyeshadow The problem is, the rax is already the weakest tier 3 cruiser. It has the least amount of slots, and the lowest grid. This was made up for on the rax by its drone bay. You are nuts and have no idea what you're talking about.
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2005.12.01 17:08:00 - [48] Originally by: Megadon Originally by: Eyeshadow The problem is, the rax is already the weakest tier 3 cruiser. It has the least amount of slots, and the lowest grid. This was made up for on the rax by its drone bay. You are nuts and have no idea what you're talking about. Whilst not meaning to pull rank, do you actually know who you're talking to? Never mind. The simple fact of the matter is that every single Deimos pilot who has posted in here is unanimous - the Deimos is suffering already. Come the RMR patch, they'll be a dying breed, an endangered bird of prey that was once feared across space -lanes and was mortally wounded through lack of foresight. The Firing Range
Bracius	Posted - 2005.12.01 17:12:00 - [49] Originally by: Megadon Originally by: Eyeshadow The problem is, the rax is already the weakest tier 3 cruiser. It has the least amount of slots, and the lowest grid. This was made up for on the rax by its drone bay. You are nuts and have no idea what you're talking about. Excuse me... but rax itself is pretty crappy choice. Rax + drones = deadly, because you don't relay on guns at all... i remember popular setup was 5x small nosferatus :) Plate + drones = thorax... now take the plate away and drones away... bleh :) I just contributed 0 to this topic :)
Megadon	Posted - 2005.12.01 17:27:00 - [50] Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: Megadon Originally by: Eyeshadow The problem is, the rax is already the weakest tier 3 cruiser. It has the least amount of slots, and the lowest grid. This was made up for on the rax by its drone bay. You are nuts and have no idea what you're talking about. Whilst not meaning to pull rank, do you actually know who you're talking to? Never mind. The simple fact of the matter is that every single Deimos pilot who has posted in here is unanimous - the Deimos is suffering already. Come the RMR patch, they'll be a dying breed, an endangered bird of prey that was once feared across space -lanes and was mortally wounded through lack of foresight. Come on... I'm not disagreeing completely, but to say it is the weakest tier 3 cruiser is a bit over the top don't you think? Didn't mean to sound so much like a troll.

Eyeshadow	Posted - 2005.12.01 17:30:00 - [51] Of course im nuts and i have no idea what im talking about The rax, as it is NOW, is a good ship because it has the drone bay. Once RMR hits, its gonna suffer the same problems as the deimos. It will be outclassed by the rupture, the maller and the moa. It cant tank very well unless you plate it, and then your only gonna get frig guns on it due to its crap grid. Its range is about 5km max with electrons, 7km or so with ions, its fat and slow and even then, medium blasters arent THAT good for their dmg output My Latest Vid (16/11/05)
Kaeten	Posted - 2005.12.01 17:30:00 - [52] I've been flying the deimos for abit now and I'm actully ashamed of it's fitting req, so I have ot agree with Dash here. Latest Movie: Defusun Incident
El Yatta	Posted - 2005.12.01 17:31:00 - [53] Already tiring of Deimos lack of versatility on TQ, but still enjoying the raw damage I did in groups, I popped onto SiSi, to find that any BC t1 could walk all over the ship, even when they were already in close. It's a crying shame that this ship is going to waste because it cant bring its firepower to bear, nor tank long enough to break an enemy's tank. It's brutal, buts its also fat, slow, and made of tissue paper. 200 more grid, 30-60 more CPU, and +5%-10% agility, would solve this. Please consider it, even if it cant make it for RMR - which, as balance changes aren't done yet, it could! ---:::---
Foomanshoe	Posted - 2005.12.01 18:09:00 - [54] Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: Ortu Konsinni Wasn't RMR supposed to destroy the plate/extender argument that other HACs have going for them, though? What about the mass or sig penalty incurred by fitting a plate resp. extender? Was it scrapped after all? You can still easily fit a 1600mm plate to a HAC - they're a little slower, that's about it. The signature penalty isn't worth crying over on the shield extenders. The Deimos can't fit either; guess which HAC gets slapped around consistently on Singularity these days? Uh, i cant fit a 1600mm plate on my zealot 1012 grid used by guns, 1362.5 grid total. So unless i say f'k it and go with small guns or the crappy med guns like focused medium beams, i cant fit a plate. If your loosing duels in a deimos or hunting the same person over and over and they keep kicking your ass, its probably cause they know your a blaster deimos and they know all they gotta do is keep you outta range and your useless. Try changing (OMG) your setup to either a rail platform, or fight with a wingman. A blackbird with 6 sensor damps will make your life heaven in a deimos, because the only way a enemy will even beable to target you is to get within your optimal and they will be dead before they finish the lock. Diemos is undoubtably the highest damage HAC in the game, more so after RMR, and because of this they became tremendously popular and people had to start fitting counter diemos setups (web web web) because of this. Adapt. _______________________________________________ Originally by: Oveur To the nerfmobile!
LUKEC	Posted - 2005.12.01 18:30:00 - [55] I think that zealot with 7HSII and 4x heavy pulsesII comes very close to deimos full of ions and dmg mods. But while zealot might have use for pure gank, deimos doesn't have. Oh and another thing, you can decently fit zealot with 800mm t2 plate and heavy pulses... try 800mm plate, mar and t2 ions... then neutrons :) Originally by: WildCard "NOW Flyzone" before after Be back in a year or so
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2005.12.01 19:08:00 - [56] Originally by: Foomanshoe Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: Ortu Konsinni Wasn't RMR supposed to destroy the plate/extender argument that other HACs have going for them, though? What about the mass or sig penalty incurred by fitting a plate resp. extender? Was it scrapped after all? You can still easily fit a 1600mm plate to a HAC - they're a little slower, that's about it. The signature penalty isn't worth crying over on the shield extenders. The Deimos can't fit either; guess which HAC gets slapped around consistently on Singularity these days? Uh, i cant fit a 1600mm plate on my zealot 1012 grid used by guns, 1362.5 grid total. So unless i say f'k it and go with small guns or the crappy med guns like focused medium beams, i cant fit a plate. If your loosing duels in a deimos or hunting the same person over and over and they keep kicking your ass, its probably cause they know your a blaster deimos and they know all they gotta do is keep you outta range and your useless. Try changing (OMG) your setup to either a rail platform, or fight with a wingman. A blackbird with 6 sensor damps will make your life heaven in a deimos, because the only way a enemy will even beable to target you is to get within your optimal and they will be dead before they finish the lock. Diemos is undoubtably the highest damage HAC in the game, more so after RMR, and because of this they became tremendously popular and people had to start fitting counter diemos setups (web web web) because of this. Adapt. Focused Medium Pulse IIs with a 1600mm plate? Certainly fits on my Zealot that's for sure, and you can't dismiss them out of hand as worthless. Ever attempted to fight a Zealot setup like the above in a Deimos when they're using a webifier? You won't be going home with orange rocket trails I'll guarantee you that. Considering you're so stubborn regarding you Zealot, how can you possible accuse me of the same thing when it comes to using blasters on a Deimos? You can't tell someone to adapt when you're not willing to do it yourself. Why should I have to fit rails, why should I need a wingman? Why can't I fit her with blasters, as the description in Ship Info implies, and proceed to hunt targets down on my own? All this talk of damage - so what if the Deimos has high DPS on the guns, she has to get their first. Aha, first problem - she's one of the slowest (if no the slowest) HACs out there. Your signature radius is enormous as well so your tank better hold on the way in. Second problem, it won't. Alright, I'll fit for damage so that I can at least kill them when I finally limp into webifying range. Third and final problem - with the RMR patch you simply can't do enough damage in a Deimos to drop your prey, since they'll tank your Electron fire. Now, if you could only fit Electrons and a tank, or a standard Ion rig, or a gank-fitted Neutron setup... The Firing Range
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.12.01 19:23:00 - [57] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 01/12/2005 19:24:24 So here it goes. Fittings of HAC. It'd be nice if when you find something wrong (which is completely possible) you say it in a friendly way, because "errare humanum est" and all. I tried to include a armor rep for armor tanking hac, and a large shield booster for shield tanking hac. Same goes for ab or mwd. I didn't include nos in fittings, only heavy launchers and turrets. Edit: this is with max fitting skills. I had to check for the large shield booster, whether the powergrid requirement is affect by the shield upgrade skill, and apparently it is not. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. --- Spreadsheet - Damage @ range.
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2005.12.01 19:28:00 - [58] Originally by: Naughty Boy Edited by: Naughty Boy on 01/12/2005 19:24:24 So here it goes. Fittings of HAC. It'd be nice if when you find something wrong (which is completely possible) you say it in a friendly way, because "errare humanum est" and all. I tried to include a armor rep for armor tanking hac, and a large shield booster for shield tanking hac. Same goes for ab or mwd. I didn't include nos in fittings, only heavy launchers and turrets. Edit: this is with max fitting skills. I had to check for the large shield booster, whether the powergrid requirement is affect by the shield upgrade skill, and apparently it is not. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. Interesting, and I notice that despite struggling for powergrid, the Deimos still has another high-slot to fill in the majority of those setups. Regarding the Muninn (which crops up rather a lot), don't people fit shield boosters and extenders on those - using up CPU rather than powergrid? The Firing Range
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.12.01 19:32:00 - [59] Originally by: Eyeshadow The rax, as it is NOW, is a good ship because it has the drone bay. Once RMR hits, its gonna suffer the same problems as the deimos. It will be outclassed by the rupture, the maller and the moa. It cant tank very well unless you plate it, and then your only gonna get frig guns on it due to its crap grid. Its range is about 5km max with electrons, 7km or so with ions, its fat and slow and even then, medium blasters arent THAT good for their dmg output It's been discussed a bit in the mk2 thread and unfortunately, despite some evidence of the mk2 thorax being somewhat weaker than the mk2 rupture, nothing was changed. Cap is really too tight to travel, fire the guns and tank, and cpu is a bit lacking aswel. Though, moa is really worse than thorax in about any role, and similarly to the maller suffers in the damage output side because of the defensive bonus (hindering a second offensive bonus). I'd not dismiss the thorax all that fast, though the mk2 rupture will probably outclass it in close range combat. Thorax need some more cap, mwd related bonus could be upped a bit. [/Hijack] Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. --- Spreadsheet - Damage @ range.
Tribunal	Posted - 2005.12.01 19:35:00 - [60] I think that the real problem are blasters, but maybe that's just me .

KilROCK	Posted - 2005.12.01 19:41:00 - [61] Originally by: Naughty Boy Edited by: Naughty Boy on 01/12/2005 19:24:24 So here it goes. Fittings of HAC. Oh my god , you have so much time on your hands to do these graphics LOL
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.12.01 19:51:00 - [62] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 01/12/2005 19:50:55 Originally by: Dash Ripcock Interesting, and I notice that despite struggling for powergrid, the Deimos still has another high-slot to fill in the majority of those setups. Yep, that's what you said all along Originally by: Dash Ripcock Regarding the Muninn (which crops up rather a lot), don't people fit shield boosters and extenders on those - using up CPU rather than powergrid? I have no idea, could be that devs think that you can shield tank all right with 3 mids so maybe... Originally by: KilROCK Oh my god , you have so much time on your hands to do these graphics LOL Most graphs I post take at most 1 minute to create and host, i just type the ship type and weapons types, sig radius and transversal velocity and it's all magic. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. --- Spreadsheet - Damage @ range.
Amos Sommers	Posted - 2005.12.01 19:58:00 - [63] In respone to the original post: Not mentioning the fact that because of the mwd signature radius you get insta-wtf-pwnt-bbq-zapped by anything thats same size or bigger. This goes for Megathron aswel.. LOL U IS PWNED
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2005.12.01 20:00:00 - [64] Originally by: Naughty Boy Originally by: Dash Ripcock Regarding the Muninn (which crops up rather a lot), don't people fit shield boosters and extenders on those - using up CPU rather than powergrid? I have no idea, could be that devs think that you can shield tank all right with 3 mids so maybe... Slight derailment - I was under the impression people fit lots of gank, a slight shield tank and big guns on a Muninn, but then I don't fly one. As for the topic at hand, thank you for backing it up with cold hard numbers! The Firing Range
LUKEC	Posted - 2005.12.01 20:00:00 - [65] Originally by: Amos Sommers In respone to the original post: Not mentioning the fact that because of the mwd signature radius you get insta-wtf-pwnt-bbq-zapped by anything thats same size or bigger. This goes for Megathron aswel.. Yp, another great attribute of deimos... Originally by: WildCard "NOW Flyzone" before after Be back in a year or so
Meridius	Posted - 2005.12.01 20:26:00 - [66] Originally by: LUKEC I think that zealot with 7HSII and 4x heavy pulsesII comes very close to deimos full of ions and dmg mods. That doesn't exist in RMR. ________________________________________________________
Marko Debreault	Posted - 2005.12.01 20:29:00 - [67] I will not fly the deimos. For the isk it is not versatile enough and it is far too vulnerable.
Ugluuk	Posted - 2005.12.01 22:09:00 - [68] Deimos pwn.. It`s all in the fitting..If you dont go with the obvious fitting you can do miracles.. I dont think it`s a bad ship.. http://bydi.digilo.net/forum/ Edited, Ugluuk rox my boxxor -Dyvim
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2005.12.01 22:35:00 - [69] Originally by: Ugluuk Deimos pwn.. It`s all in the fitting..If you dont go with the obvious fitting you can do miracles.. I dont think it`s a bad ship.. That shouldn't happen. The description says it is the ultimate cruiser blaster boat. As a result, it should at least be able to mount its mid-tier blasters without having to compromise its setup or lose out on a slot. Also, considering it 'shares tactical elements with smaller vessels' surely that means that she's fast and agile, ducking under enemy guns to deliver a killer blow? Instead she's one of the slowest Heavy Assaults there is, further crippled by the signature penalty. I can live the penalty, but everything else just makes her take up shelf space. The Firing Range
ThunderGodThor	Posted - 2005.12.01 23:23:00 - [70] Originally by: Ugluuk Deimos pwn.. It`s all in the fitting..If you dont go with the obvious fitting you can do miracles.. I dont think it`s a bad ship.. ???? I guess you dont fly the diemos at all do you. How would you recomend fitting it rails??? YOu cant fit 250's with out a rcu or 3 depending on skills. Use 200's??? they need more pg than ions so those out of the question. Guess that leaves the electrons and dual 150's. Both have the shortest range and damage for hybrids just so it is possible to fit a possible tank. Wish i had what you are smoking.

ThunderGodThor	Posted - 2005.12.01 23:31:00 - [71] Originally by: Dash Ripcock Edited by: Dash Ripcock on 01/12/2005 16:16:23 Here are some numbers concerning the difference in ship fittings (PG/CPU): Zealot/Omen: 360/65 Sacrilege/Maller: 100/40 Deimos/Thorax: 40/30 Ishtar/Vexor: 25/15 Muninn/Rupture: 90/30 Vagabond/Stabber: 155/95 Eagle/Moa: 95/78 Cerberus/Caracal: 105/90 By simply looking at those simple numbers, we can see that the Deimos (Ishtar aside) benefits the least fitting-wise from all of the other HACs. Great, we get an extra 40 powergrid and 30 CPU units to fill a high-slot and a low-slot. No wonder you see countless pilots struggling to fit the mid-range gun (Ions) onto their Tech 2 ship. With regards to the Ishtar, her lack of fitting is made up for with an absolutely enormous drone bay, as well as being an ECM/Tank platform rather than a fist fighter. The Deimos has the same drone bay as the Thorax in this respect. Considering that the Megathron, a Tech 1 ship, can fit a rack of Ion IIs without a hiccup whereby the Deimos a Tech 2 ship can't without power upgrades speaks for itself. This is supposed to be the deadliest cruiser under 5Km - let's make her that way. This has obviously struck a chord with disgruntled Deimos pilots - you have Eyeshadow and Gariuys, both established Deimos veterans agreeing that she needs more powercore, CPU and agility. I said that all in the MK2 work bout the rax and Deimos as soon as i saw it. Posted it in 10 or so posts. Before on the early idea for the rax it was 20 or 15 pg. With RMR the rax will be flown by all us diemos pilots as you can fit it all out with what you use on a diemos now.
Gary Goat	Posted - 2005.12.01 23:40:00 - [72] Edited by: Gary Goat on 01/12/2005 23:41:23 I agree totally. I have to sacrifice my utility hi slot to fit ions (which are MID range guns), a mwd and a tank. Oh and by tank i really mean 1 rep and 1 50% hardner so its not really much of a tank. Somebody mentioned that they cant fit a plate on there zealot after guns? I take it your using the HI end guns? WITH ADVANCED WEAPONS UPGRADES 4 THE DEIMOS CANNOT FIT 5x NEUTRONS! Thats right with all other slots empty it cant fit 5 neutrons. Now i understand you need to sacrifice for that extra damage but a pg mod just to fit the damn guns is a bit excessive.
KilROCK	Posted - 2005.12.01 23:46:00 - [73] It's quite funny when someone talks about the deimos, someone will say 'oh you have the ishtar, you can't have two UBER hac in 1 race'. Most are Zealot pilots whining about their sac, When in reality when RMR hits, they'll have the curse, which does the same damage with 5 heavy drones as a Ishtar but it can suck you freaking dry at 37.5km. So yea. Fix the deimos a bit
Meridius	Posted - 2005.12.02 00:09:00 - [74] Originally by: KilROCK It's quite funny when someone talks about the deimos, someone will say 'oh you have the ishtar, you can't have two UBER hac in 1 race'. Most are Zealot pilots whining about their sac, When in reality when RMR hits, they'll have the curse, which does the same damage with 5 heavy drones as a Ishtar but it can suck you freaking dry at 37.5km. So yea. Fix the deimos a bit Curse isn't a HAC. It has lower resists, less tanking ability, lower hp, is heavier, slower and has a fraction of the Ishtar's drone bay. Like with all Amarr ships, everyone seems to point at the good stuff first while completely ignoring the rest The Ishtar and Deimos in there current condition are the best pair of HAC's hands down. In RMR they will be even better with the drone rehaul. ________________________________________________________
KilROCK	Posted - 2005.12.02 00:14:00 - [75] I never compared their tank, i said: Ability to suck dry better than the ishtar Same damage output with 5 heavy drones
Arti K	Posted - 2005.12.02 00:22:00 - [76] Edited by: Arti K on 02/12/2005 00:22:53 Can we go back to march and april when people were complaining that the deimos was overpowered and cost twice as much as the ishtar, and the ishtar was useless? Those were funny months
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2005.12.02 01:25:00 - [77] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: KilROCK It's quite funny when someone talks about the deimos, someone will say 'oh you have the ishtar, you can't have two UBER hac in 1 race'. Most are Zealot pilots whining about their sac, When in reality when RMR hits, they'll have the curse, which does the same damage with 5 heavy drones as a Ishtar but it can suck you freaking dry at 37.5km. So yea. Fix the deimos a bit Curse isn't a HAC. It has lower resists, less tanking ability, lower hp, is heavier, slower and has a fraction of the Ishtar's drone bay. Like with all Amarr ships, everyone seems to point at the good stuff first while completely ignoring the rest The Ishtar and Deimos in there current condition are the best pair of HAC's hands down. In RMR they will be even better with the drone rehaul. I'd say the Minmatar are good contenders, and after the RMR patch who knows - maybe the Caldari twosome will prove popular. However, arguing against balancing a ship because æthe others are rubbishÆ doesn't hold water - especially since this statement is far from true with the changes coming in. Wave the flag; get the others seen to as well. I pumped my skillpoints into gunnery and drones, and I want to see them pay off in the Deimos. That's my interest. The Amarr are yours. The Firing Range
Ugluuk	Posted - 2005.12.02 03:43:00 - [78] Edited by: Ugluuk on 02/12/2005 03:44:13 Originally by: ThunderGodThor Originally by: Ugluuk Deimos pwn.. It`s all in the fitting..If you dont go with the obvious fitting you can do miracles.. I dont think it`s a bad ship.. ???? I guess you dont fly the diemos at all do you. How would you recomend fitting it rails??? YOu cant fit 250's with out a rcu or 3 depending on skills. Use 200's??? they need more pg than ions so those out of the question. Guess that leaves the electrons and dual 150's. Both have the shortest range and damage for hybrids just so it is possible to fit a possible tank. Wish i had what you are smoking. I flew Deimos until i tried the Ishtar.. Where did i say 250 rails? Where did i say rails at all? I said something people wont expect when they meet you.. Your lack of imagination is the reason you think this ship sucks.. It would be pretty stupid of me to sit here and tell everyone what setup i run..But when i get a new one i will show my enemies instead.. http://bydi.digilo.net/forum/ Edited, Ugluuk rox my boxxor -Dyvim
Weirda	Posted - 2005.12.02 03:48:00 - [79] Originally by: Arti K Edited by: Arti K on 02/12/2005 00:22:53 Can we go back to march and april when people were complaining that the deimos was overpowered and cost twice as much as the ishtar, and the ishtar was useless? Those were funny months qft funny thing is ishtar probably the exact same now as it was then - only the cookie cutter nos was revealed to the sheep... -- Thread Killer (attempt to train verbosity from 4 back down to 1 -- failed) <END TRANSMISSION>
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2005.12.02 09:41:00 - [80] Originally by: Ugluuk Edited by: Ugluuk on 02/12/2005 03:44:13 Originally by: ThunderGodThor Originally by: Ugluuk Deimos pwn.. It`s all in the fitting..If you dont go with the obvious fitting you can do miracles.. I dont think it`s a bad ship.. ???? I guess you dont fly the diemos at all do you. How would you recomend fitting it rails??? YOu cant fit 250's with out a rcu or 3 depending on skills. Use 200's??? they need more pg than ions so those out of the question. Guess that leaves the electrons and dual 150's. Both have the shortest range and damage for hybrids just so it is possible to fit a possible tank. Wish i had what you are smoking. I flew Deimos until i tried the Ishtar.. Where did i say 250 rails? Where did i say rails at all? I said something people wont expect when they meet you.. Your lack of imagination is the reason you think this ship sucks.. It would be pretty stupid of me to sit here and tell everyone what setup i run..But when i get a new one i will show my enemies instead.. You can't expect your 'holier than thou' attitude to cut it do you? Saying that your setup works when countless others are having issues with fitting the ship the way she should be fitted does not mean that this ship does not need balancing. Of course there is always room for innovation, but as it stands she is a blaster ship, meant to fit blasters, and the only way she can do that and retain a useable setup that doesn't neglect slots is by using the smallest class of blasters available - on a Tech 2 ship. It's got nothing to do with imagination; it's got everything to do with making a ship fulfil her basic requirements. CCP changed the Moa, and in turn changed the Eagle. Now they've changed the Thorax; surely the Deimos requires a re-address as a result? The numbers are there, it's obvious she doesn't have enough powergrid. You have established Deimos pilots posting in here saying that she needs to be looked at, and that theyÆve switched to something else as a result. Exactly what more do you need? The Firing Range

ThunderGodThor	Posted - 2005.12.02 09:45:00 - [81] Originally by: Ugluuk Edited by: Ugluuk on 02/12/2005 03:44:13 Originally by: ThunderGodThor Originally by: Ugluuk Deimos pwn.. It`s all in the fitting..If you dont go with the obvious fitting you can do miracles.. I dont think it`s a bad ship.. ???? I guess you dont fly the diemos at all do you. How would you recomend fitting it rails??? YOu cant fit 250's with out a rcu or 3 depending on skills. Use 200's??? they need more pg than ions so those out of the question. Guess that leaves the electrons and dual 150's. Both have the shortest range and damage for hybrids just so it is possible to fit a possible tank. Wish i had what you are smoking. I flew Deimos until i tried the Ishtar.. Where did i say 250 rails? Where did i say rails at all? I said something people wont expect when they meet you.. Your lack of imagination is the reason you think this ship sucks.. It would be pretty stupid of me to sit here and tell everyone what setup i run..But when i get a new one i will show my enemies instead.. So what are u saying use lasers or something on it??? Small hybrid??? Fill the lows with pdu or rcu??? YOu do know that its bouses are to med hybrid right? Any thing else is a waste. What is wrong with having the pg and cpu to use ions and say a med nos on the last slot. If you have a setup by all means enlighten this poor noob. Be a little more informative than "If you dont go with the obvious fitting you can do miracles".
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.12.02 09:56:00 - [82] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 02/12/2005 09:59:56 Originally by: Dash Ripcock Of course there is always room for innovation, but as it stands she is a blaster ship, meant to fit blasters, and the only way she can do that and retain a useable setup that doesn't neglect slots is by using the smallest class of blasters available - on a Tech 2 ship. At least, you can use ions and still have a semi-decent setup. Granted, the utility slot can't fit a medium nos without some ducttape, but there's really worse than that out there. I ain't saying that it's all right though. I suppose it's the same as damage controls and the like being useless for a really long time. Or, heavy neutron blasters out of sanity fitting requirements, or 800mm - 425mm autocannons total suckyness, or why the heck is it so damn hard to stick medium t2 artilleries on muninn (the only ship designed to fit them), or god damn why did the sacrilege need that much shields. Nobody understand out of which magic hat CCP pulled the funky numbers... yet the wizard said that it's right Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. --- Spreadsheet - Damage @ range.
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.12.02 10:18:00 - [83] The only way to get a semi decent setup with IONs is using loads of faction stuff, and a RCU. I just wanna be able to drop that RCU, keep my IONs and fit a DCU... And I sure as hell wouldn't mind some less mass, more agility, more speed too. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Liam Fremen	Posted - 2005.12.02 10:20:00 - [84] Well, i fly my deimos from a lot of time, both pvp and ratting, unlukly there is a big problem about Electrons blaster. The real difference from deimos and rax is thath diemos not only have more dmg output, but the 10% falloff is what make the REAL difference, remember thath with ions u can hit very often at 10km with HAC lvl4, with hac5 u would hit sometime more far, and this is DAMN good vs frigates, just beacause a tackler who want web you must come inside 10km, if u are fitted with electorn and him stay at 9.5 km u just sux, if u have ions and good gunnery skills he will find a nice surprise! The same is for everything, with ions ur range is less than 5km, with ions u begin hiting ur enemy at 10km, and this give another big advantage, if you are moving to a enemy, and he is able to web you and **** up ur trajectory or anything else and u end at 7km from him, webbed, if u have electrons u can just hope to waste all ur cap in mwd for reaching the foe, if u have ions u can start hitting him and than going near, is sure BETTER. Neutrons would be cool i think, the range would be more and the damage too, well u will lose a bit of tracking, but if u can hit at 15km well, u can waste a bit of it... And btw, i confirm a damn deimos fitting with ions is DAMN tight, without adv weapon upgrade u have trouble fitting a med t2 repper... and the CPU is damn tight too, very often u must fit named stuff for fitting mwd+web+scrambler.... I love t2 fitting on t2 ships, so i prefer having everything tech2, seems just more right, and repleaceable, ok with 200 millions worth modules u can do bettr, but wtf, is the cost of the ship + fitting.... Pls, increase at least grid and cpu.... the agility is bad, it is very damn heavy... with next patch, or we will be able to STRIKE fast on our target with VERY hight damage, or we will be deads.
Ithildin	Posted - 2005.12.02 10:28:00 - [85] I get better performance from my Deimos when it's fitted with Flak Cannons (Dual 150mm) and one or two 200mm, than I do with any blaster setup. Over all, blasters need looking at, and generally I keep glancing towards autocannons. Not in terms of cap usage, falloff or anything like that - I glance in terms of the fortsight in fitting requirements, which are generally about half of the fitting requirements of blasters CPU-wise and slightly lower in powergrid (Gallente and Minmatar have very similar powergrid and CPU). CPU is where the shoe's tight for all blaster setups. As an illustration, the RMR change to Thorax makes my cruiser blaster setup Thorax change thus: instead of 10-20 powergrid free I'll have about 200 free, and still no CPU to fit anything. This is with Electron IIs. So. When are these forums going live in game?
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2005.12.02 11:20:00 - [86] Originally by: Ithildin I get better performance from my Deimos when it's fitted with Flak Cannons (Dual 150mm) and one or two 200mm, than I do with any blaster setup. Over all, blasters need looking at, and generally I keep glancing towards autocannons. Not in terms of cap usage, falloff or anything like that - I glance in terms of the fortsight in fitting requirements, which are generally about half of the fitting requirements of blasters CPU-wise and slightly lower in powergrid (Gallente and Minmatar have very similar powergrid and CPU). CPU is where the shoe's tight for all blaster setups. As an illustration, the RMR change to Thorax makes my cruiser blaster setup Thorax change thus: instead of 10-20 powergrid free I'll have about 200 free, and still no CPU to fit anything. This is with Electron IIs. It's the same old, same old. It was always the case with the Megathron, people complained and CCP made them far easier to fit. Now it's the same issue with the cruisers and Heavy Assaults - let's hope CCP will listen one more time. The Firing Range
Bracius	Posted - 2005.12.02 11:35:00 - [87] let's see... last time i used deimos in pvp was in july... after that, i rather have thorax. :) Cheaper and almost better, because price allows more Leeeeeeeeroy tactic :) I just contributed 0 to this topic :)
Hobblin I	Posted - 2005.12.02 11:44:00 - [88] Boost the Zealot too.. it blows in sisi :/ I want another hi turret slot.
Hobblin I	Posted - 2005.12.02 11:48:00 - [89] For the Deimos, my suggestion is this Lower dmg of electrons and grid/cpu Lower dmg of ions and grid/cpu to level of current electrons Lower dmg grid/cpu of neutrons to that of current ions Give it a slight agility boost. Now you can get good dps while having plates
Gary Goat	Posted - 2005.12.02 13:40:00 - [90] What would that achieve hobgoblin? Everything would be exactly the same as now but you'd have more agility and no option to fit hi end guns cos they simply wouldnt exsist as the neutrons would be equivilent to other races mid range guns. Damage on medium blasters is fine at the moment, its just the insane fitting requirments for them.

Mr Raine	Posted - 2005.12.02 14:02:00 - [91] omg any one that says the sacralidge is crap. is st000pid, i cant believe it when i hear such rubbish, its suposed to have an uber tank, thats its job. not to deal dmg, we use them all the time in pvp. rubish,
Hobblin I	Posted - 2005.12.02 15:00:00 - [92] Originally by: Gary Goat Edited by: Gary Goat on 02/12/2005 13:46:45 What would that achieve hobgoblin? In essence you want to remove neutrons, rename ions to neutrons, rename electrons to ions and then add a lower type of gun and call that electrons? So all other races get there hi range, mid range and low range guns for each class and us gallente get med range, low range and extra low range? Damage on medium blasters is fine at the moment, its just the insane fitting requirments for them. Thats exactly the purpose of the changes I'm recommending. However you forgot to read the part... The falloff is not changed. The falloff of neutrons is the same as is the optimal. Only grid/cpu/dmg is reduced to the level of ions. Currently neutrons are impossible to fit. If they are made easy to fit, the Deimos dmg wise will be unbeatable in HACs by a HUGE margin The Amarr have Heavy Pulse lasers and Focused pulse lasers... Heavy beams and focused beams. We dont have 3 types of close range pulses. So you are wrong. We have 1 quad beam laser which has similar range to a focused pulse with lower dmg and lower fitting.. but limited use at best. Ion setups on a Deimos outdmg the Zealot easily, electron setups do the same dmg or sometimes more dmg than Heavy pulse lasers on a Zealot.
Hobblin I	Posted - 2005.12.02 15:05:00 - [93] Originally by: Mr Raine omg any one that says the sacralidge is crap. is st000pid, i cant believe it when i hear such rubbish, its suposed to have an uber tank, thats its job. not to deal dmg, we use them all the time in pvp. rubish, Ahh so we have 1 HAC whose purpose is.. BAIT. Thanks but no thanks. I would much rather have it be more useful. Not everyone flys in 10 man gangs.
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.12.02 15:30:00 - [94] Amarr, got megatank, and awesomegank. The 2 strong points of the amarr. Gallente, got megadronage, and weak ass blasterboat. The 2 gallente things. Caldari, missile mayhem and shieldtank/railer. 2 of the 3 caldari strongs. And minnies get, megaspeed, and megaflexibiliy. the 2 minnie things. Whether people like to fly a megatank instead of a awesomegank, that's up to you, not a problem with the ship. ( And sacrilige can do some pretty nice damage if you drop the I NEEEEEEEEEEED armor and Nossies idea ) Oh, and the damage difference between electrons and ions and neutrons are quite small, the difference is in range. So just lower fitting requirements. Or rather, gimme more grid.... cause grid is more flexible then lower fitting, and blaster grid is only half of the grid usage on my deimos (mwd/rep/nos take the rest) ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Ugluuk	Posted - 2005.12.02 15:39:00 - [95] Edited by: Ugluuk on 02/12/2005 15:40:25 2x med knave 4x dual 180mm 2...(emp 3dmg types) mwd web scram med rep 800 plate2 Rcu2 2xenergized adaptive2 armor explo hardner 10 valkyrie2 Since i prolly never buy a Deimos again cause i get 2,5 eagle at the same price i can put an example of what i have..Need the right parts to fit.. No one says you HAVE to use the bonus.. dual 180`s have less cap usage..With 2 nos you have better cap.. The dmg aint as good as electrons but not far away when you do 3 dmg types..(if we say hac vs hac) not everyone use 10 drones ofc but they do more dmg than people think.. You have a nice armor, good resistance..Just be smart and pick your fights.. If you land 40km from a muninn ofc you dont attack cause you`d be wasted anyway.. Many will probably laugh at the setup as they laugh at most setup`s i run.. but hey, works for me.. And when you fly HAC you dont try to be cheap with your setup.. Go for the best stuff and you get results.. http://bydi.digilo.net/forum/ Edited, Ugluuk rox my boxxor -Dyvim
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.12.02 15:41:00 - [96] Edited by: Gariuys on 02/12/2005 15:43:17 Not far off, you bloody moron, that's ignoring a 2x 25% damage bonus........ not far off. freaking idiots that go around telling people who do have a clue how to... oh nvm... No not nvm, god you are stupid beyond believe.... there isn't a HAC, even flown by a complete moron like you that couldn't instantely vaporize a deimos fitted like that. And a vagabond would do that like 20 times better... the nerve to tell people that know the deimos inside out, that it owns, and then coming up with that.... ARRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHH ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.12.02 15:45:00 - [97] Originally by: Gariuys And minnies get, megaspeed, and wtf-factor. the 2 minnie things. Corrected. Sincerly Yours, The Naugthy Boy. --- Spreadsheet - Damage @ range.
Eyeshadow	Posted - 2005.12.02 15:49:00 - [98] Quote: The Amarr have Heavy Pulse lasers and Focused pulse lasers... Heavy beams and focused beams. We dont have 3 types of close range pulses. So you are wrong. We have 1 quad beam laser which has similar range to a focused pulse with lower dmg and lower fitting.. but limited use at best. Ion setups on a Deimos outdmg the Zealot easily, electron setups do the same dmg or sometimes more dmg than Heavy pulse lasers on a Zealot. IIRC, amarr have the quad light pulse and quad light beam, so yes you do have 3 gun types aswell. Whether they are any use or not is another thing Ion setup deimos outdmgs a pulse zealot? I should bloody hope so too. Your optimal is 10km, with a max range of about 30km. An Ion deimos has an optimal of 3km with a 7km falloff. Of course we outdamage you, but it isnt by a lot tbh Not to mention the fact you can shove 4 heavy beams on a zealot, still tank, still fit an AB and outdmg any rail deimos setup that doesnt use numerous grid modules The zealot does suffer in RMR a bit as it works best as a pure gank boat. The deimos does more damage using less dmg mods so its not so bad in that department. As for that setup posted by Ugluuk. Shut up, please. That is a horrible HORRIBLE setup. What do you expect to do with that setup? You have similar range as an ion deimos (due to falloff bonus) but are losing potentially 50% dmg. wth? The best deimos setup i ever came up with is: 3 electrons 2 ions medium nos mwd web scramble medium rep explosive hard pdu 3 dmg mods Its the best mix of dmg/tank you can get without totally gimping your damage output or your tanking ability. The only think is, you have to pray you can get in range quickly, and in a deimos, thats fairly unlikely My Latest Vid (16/11/05)
Parallax Error	Posted - 2005.12.02 15:53:00 - [99] Amarr only have 2 Pulse lasers in the Medium Energy class.
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.12.02 15:57:00 - [100] Originally by: Parallax Error Amarr only have 2 Pulse lasers in the Medium Energy class. True, effect on points made, zero! ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool

Ugluuk	Posted - 2005.12.02 15:59:00 - [101] Originally by: Gariuys Edited by: Gariuys on 02/12/2005 15:48:17 Edited by: Gariuys on 02/12/2005 15:43:17 Not far off, you bloody moron, that's ignoring a 2x 25% damage bonus........ not far off. freaking idiots that go around telling people who do have a clue how to... oh nvm... Edit1:No not nvm, god you are stupid beyond believe.... there isn't a HAC, even flown by a complete moron like you that couldn't instantely vaporize a deimos fitted like that. And a vagabond would do that like 20 times better... the nerve to tell people that know the deimos inside out, that it owns, and then coming up with that.... ARRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHH Edit:Double ARRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHH, you're worse then Detaurus and without being funny. If you have such clue, then why would my Deimos setup poon your blaster bonus Deimos? Why would my Deimos be a bigger threath to the Caldari hac`s? Your ignorance and "follow the book" attitude is why you dont make a name for yourself.. Every movie i make i hear..Omgwtf that setup was wierd..And why did it end up in a movie? cause i killed em.. My armor repairing Harpy that won vs prophecy and vengeance.. Omg that setup sucks ugly..When i killed them it was omg that setup owns.. Tell me how stupid i am..Tell me how i suck..And look at my Deimos when you sit in your pod after 1vs1 with it.. http://bydi.digilo.net/forum/ Edited, Ugluuk rox my boxxor -Dyvim
Parallax Error	Posted - 2005.12.02 16:00:00 - [102] Originally by: Gariuys Originally by: Parallax Error Amarr only have 2 Pulse lasers in the Medium Energy class. True, effect on points made, zero! Did I even mention anything other than correcting the point on Pulse lasers? No I did not, take your attitude somewhere else.
Ugluuk	Posted - 2005.12.02 16:03:00 - [103] Edited by: Ugluuk on 02/12/2005 16:04:01 Originally by: Eyeshadow As for that setup posted by Ugluuk. Shut up, please. That is a horrible HORRIBLE setup. What do you expect to do with that setup? You have similar range as an ion deimos (due to falloff bonus) but are losing potentially 50% dmg. wth? The best deimos setup i ever came up with is: 3 electrons 2 ions medium nos mwd web scramble medium rep explosive hard pdu 3 dmg mods Wouldn`t that setup run out of cap faster than mine? Doesn`t that setup have worse tank and more cap usage than mine? Like you said about my Moa Eye..IT SUCKS..Then why did i have a really close fight 1vs1 with a MC sacriledge.. It`s not all about dmg..You wont outdamage my Deimos with the tank i have.. You will run out of cap and i do 3 dmg types while you do the 2 i have best tank on.. http://bydi.digilo.net/forum/ Edited, Ugluuk rox my boxxor -Dyvim
Drunkeh	Posted - 2005.12.02 16:04:00 - [104] Edited by: Drunkeh on 02/12/2005 16:04:32 Originally by: Gariuys And minnies get, megaspeed, and megaflexibiliy. the 2 minnie things. So you are saying the muninn is "megaflexible"? With 3 mids, and 0 extra mids/lows? My Rupture is as flexible as my muninn. PS LOL @ whining deimos pilots.
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.12.02 16:05:00 - [105] Originally by: Eyeshadow Ion setup deimos outdmgs a pulse zealot? I should bloody hope so too. Your optimal is 10km, with a max range of about 30km. An Ion deimos has an optimal of 3km with a 7km falloff. Of course we outdamage you, but it isnt by a lot tbh Linky 1. Linky 2. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. --- Spreadsheet - Damage @ range.
without	Posted - 2005.12.02 16:18:00 - [106] Originally by: Ugluuk Edited by: Ugluuk on 02/12/2005 16:04:01 Originally by: Eyeshadow As for that setup posted by Ugluuk. Shut up, please. That is a horrible HORRIBLE setup. What do you expect to do with that setup? You have similar range as an ion deimos (due to falloff bonus) but are losing potentially 50% dmg. wth? The best deimos setup i ever came up with is: 3 electrons 2 ions medium nos mwd web scramble medium rep explosive hard pdu 3 dmg mods Wouldn`t that setup run out of cap faster than mine? Doesn`t that setup have worse tank and more cap usage than mine? Like you said about my Moa Eye..IT SUCKS..Then why did i have a really close fight 1vs1 with a MC sacriledge.. It`s not all about dmg..You wont outdamage my Deimos with the tank i have.. You will run out of cap and i do 3 dmg types while you do the 2 i have best tank on.. ur setup might or might not win, who gives a ****, the point is, if u have to fit a galante hac with 2 hybrid bonous with projectile guns then THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG deimos is a good ratting ship, in pvp it isnt good u need to get really close useing mwd 1000sig rad FTW, then u need to stay close until target is dead. no option to allign and shoot and warp out if needed which most otehr hacs can do
Gronsak	Posted - 2005.12.02 16:25:00 - [107] imo needs the ability to fit 5 ions t2, t2 mwd, t2 rep, t2 med nos in high without any PG or cpu mods maybe change the mwd cap bonous to a sig bonous, so that a mwd causes no sig penality with hac5??? then its not so deadly when trying to get into range the number or deimos we have killed in pvp is retarded, they mwd towards you and u do full dmg to them with torps and large guns. and u cant really tell it to orbit at 15km, then at 10km then at 5km then at 2,5km cos thats gona take a good min to do, if u take that time into account, worst dps ship in game imo change the mwd cap to sig bonous. needs to be faster please and more agile but most importantly the fitting needs to be looked at, same problem with large blasters too.
Ithildin	Posted - 2005.12.02 16:32:00 - [108] Originally by: Ugluuk Wouldn`t that setup run out of cap faster than mine? Doesn`t that setup have worse tank and more cap usage than mine? Like you said about my Moa Eye..IT SUCKS..Then why did i have a really close fight 1vs1 with a MC sacriledge.. It`s not all about dmg..You wont outdamage my Deimos with the tank i have.. You will run out of cap and i do 3 dmg types while you do the 2 i have best tank on.. Let's make an assumption: you are correct and have found the best way to set up a Deimos. The direct effect from that assumption is: Deimos suck on all points and need to be redone. If it cannot fit a setup with tripple turret boni compared to a setup without any turret boni and only a single MWD bonus, then something is wrong in the most fundamental aspect of the ship As to address the actual text you wrote, then you should perhaps examine the setup a bit closer. Note the three damage mods, wheras your suggestion had none? Eyeshadow attempted to do a damage and tank hybrid setup, not a tank setup. In actuality, Eyeshadow's setup is logically a damage setup with a less than mediocre tank, though when compared to the sacrifices you need to make on all Thorax hulls in order to get cruiser weapons on with decent damage, the tank is astonishing (omg, it's a cruiser sized rep!) The setup Eyeshadow posted doesn't suck. It's pretty fair to say your setup suck in several aspects, however. Especially when it comes to damage, you'll find yourself at least 40% less raw damage per second. I won't get into any stupid "this ship is better than that cause in this situation it's kick the crap out of that ship" comparison. You don't do 1v1 on a comparable ship. P.S. why on earth do you assume that you're going to need an over-redundant capacitor? So. When are these forums going live in game?
LUKEC	Posted - 2005.12.02 16:38:00 - [109] possibly best way to setup deimos atm is: 5x t2 electrons mwd, web, scram med. repper, 800mm t2 plate, 3x dmg mods, cap relay It is almost pure gank, but it has ~4k armor and maybe does enough dmg b4 you run out of cap etc. I was also wondering if you could fit 1600mm plate and small repper... but you cannot without using rcu... Originally by: WildCard "NOW Flyzone" before after Be back in a year or so
Eyeshadow	Posted - 2005.12.02 16:39:00 - [110] Ugluuk, you can be a complete **** sometimes Yes, if i wanted to fit a deimos specifically for deimos v deimos i would fit 3/4 NOS, couple of guns, a plate and a rep. Everything thing else is secondary. Its easy to do that for anything. If i wanted to fit a ship to take on an ishtar 1on1 id fit 3-4 smartbombs, a gallente jammer or 2 etc etc. The point is, your setup blows for anything other than 1on1 HAC v HAC, which i might add, hardly ever happens. Nearly every single setup you use is for 1v1 or you v a few lesser opponents. I dont do 1on1s very often, and certainly not in my deimos. You are a moron sometimes Ugluuk. You are a smart guy and a good pilot, but your self proclamation about owning everything is irrelevant. You dock and refit before a fight usually so you know what to fit Projectiles on an every day deimos setup, that gets 3 bonuses to medium hybrids, is retarded My Latest Vid (16/11/05)

Hllaxiu	Posted - 2005.12.02 16:43:00 - [111] Originally by: without deimos is a good ratting ship, in pvp it isnt good Its an ok member of a group of small fast attack craft. Very bad 1vs1 craft though, especially compared to say, the Ishtar, Zealot, Vagabond and RMR Cerberus (very nice ship from what I've heard/seen). I was using Eyeshadow's setup for quite a while on my Deimos, works well, but I switched to a more "bomber" role for gangs by removing the t2 med nos, using straight ion2s and swapping the PDU down to a CPR (no longer need the PDU). RMR Brutix will be better than the Deimos, assuming you can fly a deimos in the first place (ie, med blater spec, all support at 5, etc.). Can sustain 5 ions, 2 electrons, MWD, web, disruptor, injector and tank. Only flies at 1km/s instead of 1.4km/s though. Oh well.
Glassback	Posted - 2005.12.02 16:46:00 - [112] I'd love a boost to the Deimos. However, I've had lots of success with this ship and have only lost them to overwhelming odds. I use an Ion setup with a 400 plate and 2 damage mods, been playing with this on SISI and still seems ok. Fight at close range, I allways found it an excellent gate keeper, run from long range ie anything over day 10km and use piloting skills to get back at your range not theirs. Sometimes, when I'm alone..
Ethan Tomlinson	Posted - 2005.12.02 16:56:00 - [113] omg you guys are retarted....someone said a couple pages back that the diemos has been the weakest hac since release... this astounds me.... for the longest time people did nothing but praise the diemos for its ability to deal massive ammounts of dmg. so it is a little gimped as a solo ship. its still great to have a gang member in one. get a cerb and diemos hunting together and its a pretty nasty pair. use the cerb as EW platform and support while the diemos does the up close work and their are no problems.... just cause the diemos cant fit a full rack of neutrons and a tank doesn't mean its gimped just means u must try another direction with it. please dont get me wrong it could use a little more powergrid but before and after patch it will still be the same badass ship it was.... fit some energized adaptive nano's and a medium armor rep 2 and u will tank pretty good. it could prob use a agility boost or mass reduction tho
Hobblin I	Posted - 2005.12.02 19:40:00 - [114] I am astounded by the idiocy of some people in this game. Mega tank? Zealot needs 1 thermic hardner, 1 med rep and 2 cap relays to run that tank even for a remotely small amount of time. All this time, with 3 HS II and 4 of the heaviest guns we have.. We do about 120 less dps than a Deimos with ion blasters. A Deimos can fit the same setup as a Zealot only with electron IIs and mwd and does still more dps than a heavy pulse Zealot. After patch, the Deimos will have drones to mess with, Zealot nothing. THERE ARE NO QUAD LIGHT PULSES.... The Mega tank of the game the Sacrilege cannot kill an already half dead chicken if it wanted to. Unless you luck out and engage at a belt or safespot, your enemy as long as its got a decent tank and is cruiser sized or better. Will just yawn and unaggro before jumping out while laughing his arse off at your 100 dps.
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2005.12.02 20:08:00 - [115] Let's not turn this into a flame-fest guys. Also, can people reply with posts that don't assume that those who have already posted in here are idiots? If people who fly these HACs all the time in PvP voice their opinion, people should listen. Nobody here wants to fit a rack of Neutrons and have all of the trimmings. What we'd like is a Tech 2 ship that can fit its mid-range weaponry without having to make sacrifices straight off the bat. Ever noticed how nearly every full-Ion setup has a slot missing in the highs? That shouldn't be happening - full stop. I fly the Zealot, Sacrilege, Ishtar and Deimos. I have never run into a problem fitting the first two, the third is a little tight but I don't mind due to her drone-power. This morning I had another play with the Deimos. Within about twenty seconds I had run out of powergrid and CPU, and I had only fitted the guns, the MWD and the repairer. These weren't even the 'gank' class of weaponry (Neutrons) but Ions, the equivalent of Ions or 350mms on the Megathron. I can fit a Megathron with a tank, Nosferatus and medium range weaponry no problem and she's a Tech 1 ship. The Deimos is a high-risk, high-reward ship. You have to patiently wait whilst you glide into optimal, you're vulnerable to every form of ECM or HAC-killing module going and your capacitor and shields have taken a beating before you're even there. Of course your damage should be higher than ships like the Zealot which can happily cruise within 15-20Km, safe in the knowledge she can get out when she wants to. But wait, you can't actually fit anything bigger than Electrons without making large sacrifices, and considering the RMR changes you can't break their tank before they swat you away like an angry bee. The Firing Range
Hobblin I	Posted - 2005.12.02 20:18:00 - [116] Edited by: Hobblin I on 02/12/2005 20:20:55 Originally by: Dash Ripcock Let's not turn this into a flame-fest guys. Also, can people reply with posts that don't assume that those who have already posted in here are idiots? If people who fly these HACs all the time in PvP voice their opinion, people should listen. Nobody here wants to fit a rack of Neutrons and have all of the trimmings. What we'd like is a Tech 2 ship that can fit its mid-range weaponry without having to make sacrifices straight off the bat. Ever noticed how nearly every full-Ion setup has a slot missing in the highs? That shouldn't be happening - full stop. I fly the Zealot, Sacrilege, Ishtar and Deimos. I have never run into a problem fitting the first two, the third is a little tight but I don't mind due to her drone-power. This morning I had another play with the Deimos. Within about twenty seconds I had run out of powergrid and CPU, and I had only fitted the guns, the MWD and the repairer. These weren't even the 'gank' class of weaponry (Neutrons) but Ions, the equivalent of Ions or 350mms on the Megathron. I can fit a Megathron with a tank, Nosferatus and medium range weaponry no problem and she's a Tech 1 ship. The Deimos is a high-risk, high-reward ship. You have to patiently wait whilst you glide into optimal, you're vulnerable to every form of ECM or HAC-killing module going and your capacitor and shields have taken a beating before you're even there. Of course your damage should be higher than ships like the Zealot which can happily cruise within 15-20Km, safe in the knowledge she can get out when she wants to. But wait, you can't actually fit anything bigger than Electrons without making large sacrifices, and considering the RMR changes you can't break their tank before they swat you away like an angry bee. I have flown both types of ships and the only reason I didnt fly the Deimos was cuz it was expensive and the Ishtar is just THAT much better a hac. Now, I made some suggestions about fitting/dmg on ions. IONS are gank by every means of the word gank. They do more dmg than ANY other gun *****ble on ANY other HAC in game. Some 120-140 more thn the heaviest u can fit on a Zealot. You can fit 5 electrons, mwd, web scram, med rep, tech II hardner, 3 mag stabs and a 800 plate II easy... Giving a boost to grid, will allow neutrons to be fitted.. boosting the dmg on the Deimos by a HUGE margin... All the Deimos needs is a slight boost to agility and changing the neutrons to ions with same falloff/optimal. Giving it a better range.. but same dps.
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2005.12.02 20:30:00 - [117] Edited by: Dash Ripcock on 02/12/2005 20:30:13 Originally by: Hobblin I Edited by: Hobblin I on 02/12/2005 20:20:55 Originally by: Dash Ripcock Let's not turn this into a flame-fest guys. Also, can people reply with posts that don't assume that those who have already posted in here are idiots? If people who fly these HACs all the time in PvP voice their opinion, people should listen. Nobody here wants to fit a rack of Neutrons and have all of the trimmings. What we'd like is a Tech 2 ship that can fit its mid-range weaponry without having to make sacrifices straight off the bat. Ever noticed how nearly every full-Ion setup has a slot missing in the highs? That shouldn't be happening - full stop. I fly the Zealot, Sacrilege, Ishtar and Deimos. I have never run into a problem fitting the first two, the third is a little tight but I don't mind due to her drone-power. This morning I had another play with the Deimos. Within about twenty seconds I had run out of powergrid and CPU, and I had only fitted the guns, the MWD and the repairer. These weren't even the 'gank' class of weaponry (Neutrons) but Ions, the equivalent of Ions or 350mms on the Megathron. I can fit a Megathron with a tank, Nosferatus and medium range weaponry no problem and she's a Tech 1 ship. The Deimos is a high-risk, high-reward ship. You have to patiently wait whilst you glide into optimal, you're vulnerable to every form of ECM or HAC-killing module going and your capacitor and shields have taken a beating before you're even there. Of course your damage should be higher than ships like the Zealot which can happily cruise within 15-20Km, safe in the knowledge she can get out when she wants to. But wait, you can't actually fit anything bigger than Electrons without making large sacrifices, and considering the RMR changes you can't break their tank before they swat you away like an angry bee. I have flown both types of ships and the only reason I didnt fly the Deimos was cuz it was expensive and the Ishtar is just THAT much better a hac. Now, I made some suggestions about fitting/dmg on ions. IONS are gank by every means of the word gank. They do more dmg than ANY other gun *****ble on ANY other HAC in game. Some 120-140 more thn the heaviest u can fit on a Zealot. You can fit 5 electrons, mwd, web scram, med rep, tech II hardner, 3 mag stabs and a 800 plate II easy... Giving a boost to grid, will allow neutrons to be fitted.. boosting the dmg on the Deimos by a HUGE margin... All the Deimos needs is a slight boost to agility and changing the neutrons to ions with same falloff/optimal. Giving it a better range.. but same dps. Neutrons use vast amounts of powergrid, and if the Deimos were to receive an upgraded powercore it wouldn't be to the extent that a full rack would be feasible with all of the other trimmings. It would be something more akin to a gank-fitted Megathron, which often have an MWD, a plate and the aforementioned 'big guns'. Note that your 'Electron + Tank' setup is missing a high-slot. Ions a gank gun? I can do as much damage in my Zealot, but I can also keep a good distance from my enemy. Ions only do as much damage-over-time as Electrons with a Magnetic Stabiliser II, but the falloff can count for a lot - especially if you're webbed. Being able to use these would make her much more survivable to a point of acceptibility. As it stands, flying a Deimos is an incredibly dangerous thing to do. Fine, as long as the reward is worth once you've run the gauntlet. As it stands, and with the RMR changes (please note this is my primary concern) it's not. The Firing Range
Daiken	Posted - 2005.12.02 20:32:00 - [118] Originally by: Ugluuk Originally by: Gariuys Edited by: Gariuys on 02/12/2005 15:48:17 Edited by: Gariuys on 02/12/2005 15:43:17 Not far off, you bloody moron, that's ignoring a 2x 25% damage bonus........ not far off. freaking idiots that go around telling people who do have a clue how to... oh nvm... Edit1:No not nvm, god you are stupid beyond believe.... there isn't a HAC, even flown by a complete moron like you that couldn't instantely vaporize a deimos fitted like that. And a vagabond would do that like 20 times better... the nerve to tell people that know the deimos inside out, that it owns, and then coming up with that.... ARRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHH Edit:Double ARRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHH, you're worse then Detaurus and without being funny. If you have such clue, then why would my Deimos setup poon your blaster bonus Deimos? Why would my Deimos be a bigger threath to the Caldari hac`s? Your ignorance and "follow the book" attitude is why you dont make a name for yourself.. Every movie i make i hear..Omgwtf that setup was wierd..And why did it end up in a movie? cause i killed em.. My armor repairing Harpy that won vs prophecy and vengeance.. Omg that setup sucks ugly..When i killed them it was omg that setup owns.. Tell me how stupid i am..Tell me how i suck..And look at my Deimos when you sit in your pod after 1vs1 with it.. Wasn't it the other way arround? I remember that I had some fights against you and your buddys.. most of them something arround 2on1 or 3on1 and I always won... until a few days later you guys finally managed to come up with a 4on1, against me in my hac, everyone in a full nosferatu setup.. 2 days later I found myself in one of your videos, getting owned by "you" (and some people that you couldn't really see because they were removed from your scanner). ---------------------
Bazman	Posted - 2005.12.02 20:38:00 - [119] Hi. I'm Bazman and i wasted a month or 2 specialising tech 2 blasters and Gallente HACs, thank god for the Ishtar. Deimos was nice, for a while, but then it started sucking badly, maybe it was because everyone knows how to beat it, maybe its because its a lardy bastard, i dunno. All i know is that when you go into a 1vs1 vs a Thorax, pure damage, and lose, you get ****ed off. I could make a case for the deimos being underpowered, but its really just a case of that particular thorax being overpowered, never the less, for its job description, the Deimos is pretty damn crap. Whoopee, i can do 350dps with an average setup before drones, shame i can't get in range before i'm half dead. Not to worry, I have an Ishtar. I was messing around with the Deimos on sisi for a while, and in this new age of supertanking and all round electronic warfare, the time of a Deimos as a solopwnmobile is long over. Couldn't even compete with a frikken Cerberus of Eagle coz they just jam you. Moral of the story - Get freinds to go in first so the enemy shoots them. Nothing like a good meatshield. p.s. There, added my whine. While i don't particularly care about how it performs compared to a Zealot, i'd just love to fly a ship that is fast and powerful without being a bloody minmatar. woot
Daiken	Posted - 2005.12.02 20:43:00 - [120] Oh and here's a setup I like for the deimos: 5x t2 electons, 1x small nos 1x mwd, 1x 90% web, 1x warp disr 1x t2 med armor rep, 1x explo hardner, 1x t2 nano membran, 1x t2 800 plating, 2x CPR You will end up with almost 4000 armor, nice resis and still decent damage. ---------------------

Hobblin I	Posted - 2005.12.02 20:43:00 - [121] Originally by: Dash Ripcock Edited by: Dash Ripcock on 02/12/2005 20:30:13 Originally by: Hobblin I Edited by: Hobblin I on 02/12/2005 20:20:55 Originally by: Dash Ripcock Let's not turn this into a flame-fest guys. Also, can people reply with posts that don't assume that those who have already posted in here are idiots? If people who fly these HACs all the time in PvP voice their opinion, people should listen. Nobody here wants to fit a rack of Neutrons and have all of the trimmings. What we'd like is a Tech 2 ship that can fit its mid-range weaponry without having to make sacrifices straight off the bat. Ever noticed how nearly every full-Ion setup has a slot missing in the highs? That shouldn't be happening - full stop. I fly the Zealot, Sacrilege, Ishtar and Deimos. I have never run into a problem fitting the first two, the third is a little tight but I don't mind due to her drone-power. This morning I had another play with the Deimos. Within about twenty seconds I had run out of powergrid and CPU, and I had only fitted the guns, the MWD and the repairer. These weren't even the 'gank' class of weaponry (Neutrons) but Ions, the equivalent of Ions or 350mms on the Megathron. I can fit a Megathron with a tank, Nosferatus and medium range weaponry no problem and she's a Tech 1 ship. The Deimos is a high-risk, high-reward ship. You have to patiently wait whilst you glide into optimal, you're vulnerable to every form of ECM or HAC-killing module going and your capacitor and shields have taken a beating before you're even there. Of course your damage should be higher than ships like the Zealot which can happily cruise within 15-20Km, safe in the knowledge she can get out when she wants to. But wait, you can't actually fit anything bigger than Electrons without making large sacrifices, and considering the RMR changes you can't break their tank before they swat you away like an angry bee. I have flown both types of ships and the only reason I didnt fly the Deimos was cuz it was expensive and the Ishtar is just THAT much better a hac. Now, I made some suggestions about fitting/dmg on ions. IONS are gank by every means of the word gank. They do more dmg than ANY other gun *****ble on ANY other HAC in game. Some 120-140 more thn the heaviest u can fit on a Zealot. You can fit 5 electrons, mwd, web scram, med rep, tech II hardner, 3 mag stabs and a 800 plate II easy... Giving a boost to grid, will allow neutrons to be fitted.. boosting the dmg on the Deimos by a HUGE margin... All the Deimos needs is a slight boost to agility and changing the neutrons to ions with same falloff/optimal. Giving it a better range.. but same dps. Neutrons use vast amounts of powergrid, and if the Deimos were to receive an upgraded powercore it wouldn't be to the extent that a full rack would be feasible with all of the other trimmings. It would be something more akin to a gank-fitted Megathron, which often have an MWD, a plate and the aforementioned 'big guns'. Note that your 'Electron + Tank' setup is missing a high-slot. Ions a gank gun? I can do as much damage in my Zealot, but I can also keep a good distance from my enemy. Ions only do as much damage-over-time as Electrons with a Magnetic Stabiliser II, but the falloff can count for a lot - especially if you're webbed. Being able to use these would make her much more survivable to a point of acceptibility. As it stands, flying a Deimos is an incredibly dangerous thing to do. Fine, as long as the reward is worth once you've run the gauntlet. As it stands, and with the RMR changes (please note this is my primary concern) it's not. You can do as much dmg on heavy pulse IIs on a Zealot as Ions on a Deimos? How many HS does that take? and will that be feasible after patch? Plz clue me in, because mine came up about 100+ dps short :) Thats a big big difference. And I have pointed out what will help the Deimos.. grid is fine.
Meridius	Posted - 2005.12.02 20:48:00 - [122] Originally by: Gariuys Amarr, got megatank, and awesomegank. The 2 strong points of the amarr. Funny how both the Deimos and Ishtar outdamage the Zealot. The Ishtar of course does it with 0 pg/cpu/slots while being able to hold an awesome tank that leaves mids free for EW. Amarr have been able to gank at the expense of tanking and EW and still people ***** and moaned about it. Now the Gallente have gank/tank/ew and it's all balanced right? ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.12.02 20:48:00 - [123] Originally by: Gariuys Amarr, got megatank, and awesomegank. The 2 strong points of the amarr. Funny how both the Deimos and Ishtar outdamage the Zealot. The Ishtar of course does it with 0 pg/cpu/slots while being able to hold an awesome tank that leaves mids free for EW. Amarr have been able to gank at the expense of tanking and EW and still people ***** and moaned about it. Now the Gallente have gank/tank/ew and it's all balanced right? ________________________________________________________
Hobblin I	Posted - 2005.12.02 20:50:00 - [124] EVE Online \| EVE Insider \| Forums
Hobblin I	Posted - 2005.12.02 20:50:00 - [125] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Gariuys Amarr, got megatank, and awesomegank. The 2 strong points of the amarr. Funny how both the Deimos and Ishtar outdamage the Zealot. The Ishtar of course does it with 0 pg/cpu/slots while being able to hold an awesome tank that leaves mids free for EW. Amarr have been able to gank at the expense of tanking and EW and still people ***** and moaned about it. Now the Gallente have gank/tank/ew and it's all balanced right? You forgot to mention that for Amarr to gank you needed a minimum of 5 HS II to make dmg on Zealot at par with a deimos.. and the Arma is just another BS now... with almost NO purpose in game. Train Caldari or Gallente Meri.. you know you have to.
Bazman	Posted - 2005.12.02 21:00:00 - [126] Edited by: Bazman on 02/12/2005 21:00:10 The Zealot is simply a better gunboat than the Deimos, who cares if the Deimos does more damage, with a bunch of heatsinks and a mild tank, and given the standard 15km start range of fights, a zealot will toast a deimos every single time simply by moving away and turning on its guns and AB/MWD. I'm fine with that btw, so don't start screaming about it. The Ishtar on the other hand, has CPU problems, you can either NOS and tank, or EWAR and Tank, or EWAR and guns, but you can't do it all at the same time. Don't get me wrong, the Ishtar is awesome, but one smartbomb and it will have to run away like a little *****.
Hobblin I	Posted - 2005.12.02 21:02:00 - [127] Originally by: Bazman Edited by: Bazman on 02/12/2005 21:00:10 The Zealot is simply a better gunboat than the Deimos, who cares if the Deimos does more damage, with a bunch of heatsinks and a mild tank, and given the standard 15km start range of fights, a zealot will toast a deimos every single time simply by moving away and turning on its guns and AB/MWD. I'm fine with that btw, so don't start screaming about it. The Ishtar on the other hand, has CPU problems, you can either NOS and tank, or EWAR and Tank, or EWAR and guns, but you can't do it all at the same time. Don't get me wrong, the Ishtar is awesome, but one smartbomb and it will have to run away like a little *****. Smartbombs don't work in empire :) Baz
Bazman	Posted - 2005.12.02 21:05:00 - [128] Originally by: Hobblin I Originally by: Bazman Edited by: Bazman on 02/12/2005 21:00:10 The Zealot is simply a better gunboat than the Deimos, who cares if the Deimos does more damage, with a bunch of heatsinks and a mild tank, and given the standard 15km start range of fights, a zealot will toast a deimos every single time simply by moving away and turning on its guns and AB/MWD. I'm fine with that btw, so don't start screaming about it. The Ishtar on the other hand, has CPU problems, you can either NOS and tank, or EWAR and Tank, or EWAR and guns, but you can't do it all at the same time. Don't get me wrong, the Ishtar is awesome, but one smartbomb and it will have to run away like a little *****. Smartbombs don't work in empire :) Baz Well, you got me there, but i'm not much of an Empire fighter :P
Ugluuk	Posted - 2005.12.02 21:08:00 - [129] Originally by: Eyeshadow Ugluuk, you can be a complete **** sometimes Yes, if i wanted to fit a deimos specifically for deimos v deimos i would fit 3/4 NOS, couple of guns, a plate and a rep. Everything thing else is secondary. Its easy to do that for anything. If i wanted to fit a ship to take on an ishtar 1on1 id fit 3-4 smartbombs, a gallente jammer or 2 etc etc. The point is, your setup blows for anything other than 1on1 HAC v HAC, which i might add, hardly ever happens. Nearly every single setup you use is for 1v1 or you v a few lesser opponents. I dont do 1on1s very often, and certainly not in my deimos. You are a moron sometimes Ugluuk. You are a smart guy and a good pilot, but your self proclamation about owning everything is irrelevant. You dock and refit before a fight usually so you know what to fit Projectiles on an every day deimos setup, that gets 3 bonuses to medium hybrids, is retarded Where did i say that i fit for 1vs1 deimos? the hac thing was an example.. I would attack anything in my setup if i feel it`s right.. Yes i dont use the ship bonus..I dont use the ship bonus on most ships i fly..THat is also why i have pulled off some great fights cause people dont expect to meet a Deimos that aint using the ship bonus.. They expect rails or blasters..I flew ishtar a while when everyone said Deimos pwned.. But now people know what they get from a Ishtar so i dont fly it anymore.. I never say i own everything..I say that when you try 70 times you might get that 1 fight that people remember.. i am looking for THAT 1 fight all the time.. Im not playing Eve to be one of those guys..I am playing Eve to be different and maybe be remembered by other than my corp mates for the next week after i quit.. As for the setup.. Why does it suck against anything other than Hac`s? I usually meet these ships on the battlefield.. AF, Cruiser,BC,Ceptor,BS How does this setup suck when meeting 5 AF compared to yours.. You can call me a m o r o n..Call me t w a t.. A Deimos is a ship like all others..I dont care if i loose it when i believe i can win the fight im engaging in.. http://bydi.digilo.net/forum/ Edited, Ugluuk rox my boxxor -Dyvim
Hobblin I	Posted - 2005.12.02 21:14:00 - [130] Originally by: Ugluuk Originally by: Eyeshadow Ugluuk, you can be a complete **** sometimes Yes, if i wanted to fit a deimos specifically for deimos v deimos i would fit 3/4 NOS, couple of guns, a plate and a rep. Everything thing else is secondary. Its easy to do that for anything. If i wanted to fit a ship to take on an ishtar 1on1 id fit 3-4 smartbombs, a gallente jammer or 2 etc etc. The point is, your setup blows for anything other than 1on1 HAC v HAC, which i might add, hardly ever happens. Nearly every single setup you use is for 1v1 or you v a few lesser opponents. I dont do 1on1s very often, and certainly not in my deimos. You are a moron sometimes Ugluuk. You are a smart guy and a good pilot, but your self proclamation about owning everything is irrelevant. You dock and refit before a fight usually so you know what to fit Projectiles on an every day deimos setup, that gets 3 bonuses to medium hybrids, is retarded Where did i say that i fit for 1vs1 deimos? the hac thing was an example.. I would attack anything in my setup if i feel it`s right.. Yes i dont use the ship bonus..I dont use the ship bonus on most ships i fly..THat is also why i have pulled off some great fights cause people dont expect to meet a Deimos that aint using the ship bonus.. They expect rails or blasters..I flew ishtar a while when everyone said Deimos pwned.. But now people know what they get from a Ishtar so i dont fly it anymore.. I never say i own everything..I say that when you try 70 times you might get that 1 fight that people remember.. i am looking for THAT 1 fight all the time.. Im not playing Eve to be one of those guys..I am playing Eve to be different and maybe be remembered by other than my corp mates for the next week after i quit.. As for the setup.. Why does it suck against anything other than Hac`s? I usually meet these ships on the battlefield.. AF, Cruiser,BC,Ceptor,BS How does this setup suck when meeting 5 AF compared to yours.. You can call me a m o r o n..Call me t w a t.. A Deimos is a ship like all others..I dont care if i loose it when i believe i can win the fight im engaging in.. Good atitude Ugluuk The Deimos does need tweaking, not a boost. Slight agility.. changing guns. Not more dps, just slightly higher versatility.. as in more range for ions (namely making neutrons ions in terms of dmg/fitting/cap)

Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2005.12.02 22:05:00 - [131] Originally by: Hobblin I Originally by: Ugluuk Originally by: Eyeshadow Ugluuk, you can be a complete **** sometimes Yes, if i wanted to fit a deimos specifically for deimos v deimos i would fit 3/4 NOS, couple of guns, a plate and a rep. Everything thing else is secondary. Its easy to do that for anything. If i wanted to fit a ship to take on an ishtar 1on1 id fit 3-4 smartbombs, a gallente jammer or 2 etc etc. The point is, your setup blows for anything other than 1on1 HAC v HAC, which i might add, hardly ever happens. Nearly every single setup you use is for 1v1 or you v a few lesser opponents. I dont do 1on1s very often, and certainly not in my deimos. You are a moron sometimes Ugluuk. You are a smart guy and a good pilot, but your self proclamation about owning everything is irrelevant. You dock and refit before a fight usually so you know what to fit Projectiles on an every day deimos setup, that gets 3 bonuses to medium hybrids, is retarded Where did i say that i fit for 1vs1 deimos? the hac thing was an example.. I would attack anything in my setup if i feel it`s right.. Yes i dont use the ship bonus..I dont use the ship bonus on most ships i fly..THat is also why i have pulled off some great fights cause people dont expect to meet a Deimos that aint using the ship bonus.. They expect rails or blasters..I flew ishtar a while when everyone said Deimos pwned.. But now people know what they get from a Ishtar so i dont fly it anymore.. I never say i own everything..I say that when you try 70 times you might get that 1 fight that people remember.. i am looking for THAT 1 fight all the time.. Im not playing Eve to be one of those guys..I am playing Eve to be different and maybe be remembered by other than my corp mates for the next week after i quit.. As for the setup.. Why does it suck against anything other than Hac`s? I usually meet these ships on the battlefield.. AF, Cruiser,BC,Ceptor,BS How does this setup suck when meeting 5 AF compared to yours.. You can call me a m o r o n..Call me t w a t.. A Deimos is a ship like all others..I dont care if i loose it when i believe i can win the fight im engaging in.. Good atitude Ugluuk The Deimos does need tweaking, not a boost. Slight agility.. changing guns. Not more dps, just slightly higher versatility.. as in more range for ions (namely making neutrons ions in terms of dmg/fitting/cap) Hobblin I - get on the Test server, try out RMR and come back and tell me that the DPS on Electrons is fine and that Ions are too powerful. The Battlecruisers are tougher, ships have more HP, everyone is using extenders and plates. That is a lot of hitpoints to chew through before your slight defences finally fail. The emphasis is very much on 'tank' than 'gank', and high-damage ships that can't adopt (the Deimos is a case in point) are struggling more than ever before. For example, a few days back I had a fight with a Cerberus using Assault Launchers - an ideal setup for something that wanted to kill smaller craft, but not ideal for something like a HAC. Using the setup Eyeshadow has posted above, and starting at 10Km, I just beat him. With nigh-on full skills, no need for an MWD burst and kicking out as much damage as I could, he went down with my ship in flames with barely a solid surface to walk on. In nearly every fight I had with something fitted out to kill a HAC, my Deimos simply couldn't make it. That's including fights against Battlecruisers. You keep placing emphasis on the fact that she does enough DPS already, but have you tried her out on the test server? It's a completely different ballgame. As for Ugluuk's setup - surprising an enemy is one thing, but missing out on 3/4s of your ship bonuses is most definitely not something to recommend. Considering the pitiful DPS, you might as well swap your drones for different damage types than your guns. The Firing Range
ThunderGodThor	Posted - 2005.12.02 22:18:00 - [132] Well said. Get on the test server then tell us. With the RMR changes the Deimos needs some looking into. Right now they arnt to bad. After patch they suck and you can almost do the same thing with a rax at 1/15 the cost.
Hobblin I	Posted - 2005.12.02 22:26:00 - [133] Edited by: Hobblin I on 02/12/2005 22:29:11 I have been on the Test server for the last 3 weeks now. Where I can still use my Gallente specialised alt (which I sold for lots of ISK) and my Amarr spec one. Why do you think I chose to go for Caldari HACs? I have already started caldari cruiser 5. The Amarr HAC get beaten by the Caldari and Gallente ones too easily. I am expecting the Ishtar to get nerfed soon.. which is why I havent gone for the gallente route.. though I am tempted to. I lost my Zealot to a Cyclone, to a Brutix and to a Prophecy.. the Prophecy was the closest and I almost won. The Brurix kicked arse and the Cyclone had a tracking disruptor on me and was doing lots of dmg while sucking my cap. Couldnt run my rep at all or my guns would have stopped firing. So your concerns with Deimos against Bcruisers are concerns for Zealot with Bcruisers too.. not a valid point.
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2005.12.02 22:35:00 - [134] Originally by: Hobblin I Edited by: Hobblin I on 02/12/2005 22:29:11 I have been on the Test server for the last 3 weeks now. Where I can still use my Gallente specialised alt (which I sold for lots of ISK) and my Amarr spec one. Why do you think I chose to go for Caldari HACs? I have already started caldari cruiser 5. The Amarr HAC get beaten by the Caldari and Gallente ones too easily. I am expecting the Ishtar to get nerfed soon.. which is why I havent gone for the gallente route.. though I am tempted to. I lost my Zealot to a Cyclone, to a Brutix and to a Prophecy.. the Prophecy was the closest and I almost won. The Brurix kicked arse and the Cyclone had a tracking disruptor on me and was doing lots of dmg while sucking my cap. Couldnt run my rep at all or my guns would have stopped firing. So your concerns with Deimos against Bcruisers are concerns for Zealot with Bcruisers too.. not a valid point. Well, it's not a case of my point isn't valid, it's more a case of the high-damage HACs coming up short because everybody can defend against their attacks. There have been numerous threads concerning the Zealot, but this thread is about the Deimos! The Firing Range
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.12.03 01:58:00 - [135] Originally by: Parallax Error Originally by: Gariuys Originally by: Parallax Error Amarr only have 2 Pulse lasers in the Medium Energy class. True, effect on points made, zero! Did I even mention anything other than correcting the point on Pulse lasers? No I did not, take your attitude somewhere else. Yeah, sorry, Ugluuk got me a bit cranky to say the least. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.12.03 02:02:00 - [136] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Gariuys Amarr, got megatank, and awesomegank. The 2 strong points of the amarr. Funny how both the Deimos and Ishtar outdamage the Zealot. The Ishtar of course does it with 0 pg/cpu/slots while being able to hold an awesome tank that leaves mids free for EW. Amarr have been able to gank at the expense of tanking and EW and still people ***** and moaned about it. Now the Gallente have gank/tank/ew and it's all balanced right? Did I say that? NO But I don't fly a ishtar, I fly a deimos. Personally I think with the drone changes, removing all heavy drones from cruisers wouldn't be such a bad idea. Just make the drone carriers the only ones to be able to field 10. Something like that. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.12.03 02:03:00 - [137] Originally by: Hobblin I Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Gariuys Amarr, got megatank, and awesomegank. The 2 strong points of the amarr. Funny how both the Deimos and Ishtar outdamage the Zealot. The Ishtar of course does it with 0 pg/cpu/slots while being able to hold an awesome tank that leaves mids free for EW. Amarr have been able to gank at the expense of tanking and EW and still people ***** and moaned about it. Now the Gallente have gank/tank/ew and it's all balanced right? You forgot to mention that for Amarr to gank you needed a minimum of 5 HS II to make dmg on Zealot at par with a deimos.. and the Arma is just another BS now... with almost NO purpose in game. Train Caldari or Gallente Meri.. you know you have to. Wonder how many mods it would take to get the range of a zealot on a deimos. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.12.03 02:05:00 - [138] Originally by: Drunkeh Edited by: Drunkeh on 02/12/2005 16:04:32 Originally by: Gariuys And minnies get, megaspeed, and megaflexibiliy. the 2 minnie things. So you are saying the muninn is "megaflexible"? With 3 mids, and 0 extra mids/lows? My Rupture is as flexible as my muninn. PS LOL @ whining deimos pilots. Yes it is, arties/autocannons+missiles+drones. Only thing that's not a option is EW. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.12.03 02:09:00 - [139] Originally by: Ugluuk Originally by: Gariuys Edited by: Gariuys on 02/12/2005 15:48:17 Edited by: Gariuys on 02/12/2005 15:43:17 Not far off, you bloody moron, that's ignoring a 2x 25% damage bonus........ not far off. freaking idiots that go around telling people who do have a clue how to... oh nvm... Edit1:No not nvm, god you are stupid beyond believe.... there isn't a HAC, even flown by a complete moron like you that couldn't instantely vaporize a deimos fitted like that. And a vagabond would do that like 20 times better... the nerve to tell people that know the deimos inside out, that it owns, and then coming up with that.... ARRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHH Edit:Double ARRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHH, you're worse then Detaurus and without being funny. If you have such clue, then why would my Deimos setup poon your blaster bonus Deimos? Why would my Deimos be a bigger threath to the Caldari hac`s? Your ignorance and "follow the book" attitude is why you dont make a name for yourself.. Every movie i make i hear..Omgwtf that setup was wierd..And why did it end up in a movie? cause i killed em.. My armor repairing Harpy that won vs prophecy and vengeance.. Omg that setup sucks ugly..When i killed them it was omg that setup owns.. Tell me how stupid i am..Tell me how i suck..And look at my Deimos when you sit in your pod after 1vs1 with it.. Yes that setup would defeat my blasterdeimos, and yes it's a bigger threat to caldari hacs... 2 reasons, cap usage of guns ( blasters take sick amounts of it, and resistances. Got nothing to do with your setup being a "better" all purpose setup. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Hobblin I	Posted - 2005.12.03 02:46:00 - [140] Originally by: Gariuys Originally by: Hobblin I Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Gariuys Amarr, got megatank, and awesomegank. The 2 strong points of the amarr. Funny how both the Deimos and Ishtar outdamage the Zealot. The Ishtar of course does it with 0 pg/cpu/slots while being able to hold an awesome tank that leaves mids free for EW. Amarr have been able to gank at the expense of tanking and EW and still people ***** and moaned about it. Now the Gallente have gank/tank/ew and it's all balanced right? You forgot to mention that for Amarr to gank you needed a minimum of 5 HS II to make dmg on Zealot at par with a deimos.. and the Arma is just another BS now... with almost NO purpose in game. Train Caldari or Gallente Meri.. you know you have to. Wonder how many mods it would take to get the range of a zealot on a deimos. I don't know. They do max dmg at about the same range... which is ~10K. If my Zealot could do same dmg as your Deimos.. I wouldnt mind you having same range. When that isnt the case.. by a huge margin.. I don't really care. Zealot does crap dmg at 30K FYI.. doesnt matter if it can hit stuff.. and wont kill any hac at that range.

Hllaxiu	Posted - 2005.12.03 02:51:00 - [141] Originally by: Hobblin I I don't know. They do max dmg at about the same range... which is ~10K. Deimos does max damage at 1km, it does 50% damage at 10km (HAC5/Trajectory analysis 5).
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2005.12.03 08:31:00 - [142] Originally by: Hobblin I Originally by: Gariuys Originally by: Hobblin I Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Gariuys Amarr, got megatank, and awesomegank. The 2 strong points of the amarr. Funny how both the Deimos and Ishtar outdamage the Zealot. The Ishtar of course does it with 0 pg/cpu/slots while being able to hold an awesome tank that leaves mids free for EW. Amarr have been able to gank at the expense of tanking and EW and still people ***** and moaned about it. Now the Gallente have gank/tank/ew and it's all balanced right? You forgot to mention that for Amarr to gank you needed a minimum of 5 HS II to make dmg on Zealot at par with a deimos.. and the Arma is just another BS now... with almost NO purpose in game. Train Caldari or Gallente Meri.. you know you have to. Wonder how many mods it would take to get the range of a zealot on a deimos. I don't know. They do max dmg at about the same range... which is ~10K. If my Zealot could do same dmg as your Deimos.. I wouldnt mind you having same range. When that isnt the case.. by a huge margin.. I don't really care. Zealot does crap dmg at 30K FYI.. doesnt matter if it can hit stuff.. and wont kill any hac at that range. Hobblin, that is a ludicrous statement. The Zealot can hit from almost point blank right out to 40Km, the Deimos can hit from point blank right out to 10Km. Of course her overall DPS should be higher - she needs it to survive. The Zealot can just keep her distance (further enhanced by having a base speed that's 40ms higher before skills, and that's not even counting her mass). The problem is, with RMR, her DPS isn't enough. The Firing Range
Hobblin I	Posted - 2005.12.03 08:37:00 - [143] Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: Hobblin I Originally by: Gariuys Originally by: Hobblin I Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Gariuys Amarr, got megatank, and awesomegank. The 2 strong points of the amarr. Funny how both the Deimos and Ishtar outdamage the Zealot. The Ishtar of course does it with 0 pg/cpu/slots while being able to hold an awesome tank that leaves mids free for EW. Amarr have been able to gank at the expense of tanking and EW and still people ***** and moaned about it. Now the Gallente have gank/tank/ew and it's all balanced right? You forgot to mention that for Amarr to gank you needed a minimum of 5 HS II to make dmg on Zealot at par with a deimos.. and the Arma is just another BS now... with almost NO purpose in game. Train Caldari or Gallente Meri.. you know you have to. Wonder how many mods it would take to get the range of a zealot on a deimos. I don't know. They do max dmg at about the same range... which is ~10K. If my Zealot could do same dmg as your Deimos.. I wouldnt mind you having same range. When that isnt the case.. by a huge margin.. I don't really care. Zealot does crap dmg at 30K FYI.. doesnt matter if it can hit stuff.. and wont kill any hac at that range. Hobblin, that is a ludicrous statement. The Zealot can hit from almost point blank right out to 40Km, the Deimos can hit from point blank right out to 10Km. Of course her overall DPS should be higher - she needs it to survive. The Zealot can just keep her distance (further enhanced by having a base speed that's 40ms higher before skills, and that's not even counting her mass). The problem is, with RMR, her DPS isn't enough. Yes at 40K, a Zealot does exactly how much dmg? The Zealots niche lies under 20K.. beyond that it is nothing. At 20K, it outdmges a deimos.. OFcourse.. at under 10K.. the Deimos outdmgs the Zealot. Seems fair.
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2005.12.03 09:53:00 - [144] Originally by: Hobblin I Edited by: Hobblin I on 03/12/2005 08:45:32 Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: Hobblin I Originally by: Gariuys Originally by: Hobblin I Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Gariuys Amarr, got megatank, and awesomegank. The 2 strong points of the amarr. Funny how both the Deimos and Ishtar outdamage the Zealot. The Ishtar of course does it with 0 pg/cpu/slots while being able to hold an awesome tank that leaves mids free for EW. Amarr have been able to gank at the expense of tanking and EW and still people ***** and moaned about it. Now the Gallente have gank/tank/ew and it's all balanced right? You forgot to mention that for Amarr to gank you needed a minimum of 5 HS II to make dmg on Zealot at par with a deimos.. and the Arma is just another BS now... with almost NO purpose in game. Train Caldari or Gallente Meri.. you know you have to. Wonder how many mods it would take to get the range of a zealot on a deimos. I don't know. They do max dmg at about the same range... which is ~10K. If my Zealot could do same dmg as your Deimos.. I wouldnt mind you having same range. When that isnt the case.. by a huge margin.. I don't really care. Zealot does crap dmg at 30K FYI.. doesnt matter if it can hit stuff.. and wont kill any hac at that range. Hobblin, that is a ludicrous statement. The Zealot can hit from almost point blank right out to 40Km, the Deimos can hit from point blank right out to 10Km. Of course her overall DPS should be higher - she needs it to survive. The Zealot can just keep her distance (further enhanced by having a base speed that's 40ms higher before skills, and that's not even counting her mass). The problem is, with RMR, her DPS isn't enough. Yes at 40K, a Zealot does exactly how much dmg? The Zealots niche lies under 20K.. beyond that it is nothing. At 20K, it outdmges a deimos.. OFcourse.. at under 10K.. the Deimos outdmgs the Zealot. Seems fair. BTW, I have flown the Deimos and I have already admitted that it needs tweaking and have offered some suggestions for that tweak. I must very soon make a thread regarding some SERIOUS nerfing to the ISthar though. You're being pedantic! But seriously, both the Deimos and Zealot need some love with the new changes. Both rely on killing their opponent before they have time to defend themselves. The problem is they can defend themselves, rather well it would appear. The Firing Range
Sadist	Posted - 2005.12.03 11:06:00 - [145] Quote: The Zealots niche lies under 20K.. beyond that it is nothing. At 20K, it outdmges a deimos.. OFcourse.. at under 10K.. the Deimos outdmgs the Zealot. Seems fair. Excuse me here for jumping into the middle of your conversation. Seems fair? NO, its not. If 1 ship outdamages another at a closer range, but the situation is reversed at some point in distance, is it fair? NO, Its not. Dictating range is actually a part of combat most people overlook. This is the underlying problem with _all_ gallente ships. Arguments like: "well, they really wtfpwn stuff at close range" make me laugh. They dont even do more damage than others anymore. Thermal being the worst damage, the dps after taking resistances into account seems rather laughable for "kings of up-close-and-personal" combat. Yet, the problem of the aforementioned HAC isnt even that. It _does_ outdamage every other HAC up close and would do so by a considerable margin, if it had decent fit stats. It simply doesn't. Yes, it is tolerable in this current build, but when in RMR, some tech 1 cruisers will out-PG what's supposed to be one of the best HACs, the situation will change drastically. More hit points and nerfes to damage mods would simply mean that any advantage that Deimos DID have before, is lost. It is now limited in its damage by a reasonable degree, and not even the 25% bonus will make the difference. The alternative would be to make it a ship that dictates range, hence fit railguns, like on a brutix, which further reduces dps. With such a low PG, we're not even given the option of upgrading to 250mm's without further gimping our setup by an RCU. Simply said, 860 PG for a HAC in RMR is laughable, considering _every_ other cruiser and BC is getting a boost to its stats. This will only aggravate the problem of tech 1 and tech 2 differentiation, considering the insane prices on HAC's at the moment and the inability of the current system to deliver them at a price they are really worth. P.S. boost PG by 90 at the least, or decrease hybrid fittings further, like it was done for the battleship sized ones. --------------- VIP member of the [23] Sadist - harsh to the idiots, kind to the smart
Hobblin I	Posted - 2005.12.03 11:10:00 - [146] Originally by: Sadist Quote: The Zealots niche lies under 20K.. beyond that it is nothing. At 20K, it outdmges a deimos.. OFcourse.. at under 10K.. the Deimos outdmgs the Zealot. Seems fair. Excuse me here for jumping into the middle of your conversation. Seems fair? NO, its not. If 1 ship outdamages another at a closer range, but the situation is reversed at some point in distance, is it fair? NO, Its not. Dictating range is actually a part of combat most people overlook. This is the underlying problem with _all_ gallente ships. Arguments like: "well, they really wtfpwn stuff at close range" make me laugh. They dont even do more damage than others anymore. Thermal being the worst damage, the dps after taking resistances into account seems rather laughable for "kings of up-close-and-personal" combat. Yet, the problem of the aforementioned HAC isnt even that. It _does_ outdamage every other HAC up close and would do so by a considerable margin, if it had decent fit stats. It simply doesn't. Yes, it is tolerable in this current build, but when in RMR, some tech 1 cruisers will out-PG what's supposed to be one of the best HACs, the situation will change drastically. More hit points and nerfes to damage mods would simply mean that any advantage that Deimos DID have before, is lost. It is now limited in its damage by a reasonable degree, and not even the 25% bonus will make the difference. The alternative would be to make it a ship that dictates range, hence fit railguns, like on a brutix, which further reduces dps. With such a low PG, we're not even given the option of upgrading to 250mm's without further gimping our setup by an RCU. Simply said, 860 PG for a HAC in RMR is laughable, considering _every_ other cruiser and BC is getting a boost to its stats. This will only aggravate the problem of tech 1 and tech 2 differentiation, considering the insane prices on HAC's at the moment and the inability of the current system to deliver them at a price they are really worth. P.S. boost PG by 90 at the least, or decrease hybrid fittings further, like it was done for the battleship sized ones. Not going to repeat what I have said several times over in this thread already.
Sadist	Posted - 2005.12.03 11:23:00 - [147] Originally by: Hobblin I Not going to repeat what I have said several times over in this thread already. You didnt say that much in this thread anyways. People, please do not compare blaster deimos DPS and Zealot Pulse. For once, try comparing something that not also _fits_, but also gives you at least _some_ maneuverability in range and positioning, like 5x200mm's. It's like saying a tractor is faster than a porsche, because the first 5 feet it accelerates faster. Im pretty sure the DPS(range) graph would look pretty similar in shape to that of heavy pulses on a zealot. And then take into account that deimos has a worse tank, and no ability to fit any of these modules, after its standard setup (med nos, 2nd med armor rep, remote med armor rep, 800mm plate). Devs, please take a look at this. --------------- VIP member of the [23] Sadist - harsh to the idiots, kind to the smart
Kcel Chim	Posted - 2005.12.03 11:45:00 - [148] this thread is some funny stuff. first of all, blasters are in their current form broken. So before crying for a shipboost they should fix the guns. If they boost the ship and fix the guns we will have double effect and everyone will be "omghax overpowered imbalanced buhu". Having said that i honestly dont get what all the tears are about. You got a solopwnmobile and a group support ship, both undisputedly doing a very good job in their role. Yes the deimos might have not been designed to be a solopwnmobile, doh shock! How many other races have 2 very valid and often used Hac ? Caldari: prepatch eagle was just snipers, cerb. was not actually used much? minmatar: vagabond was uber solopwn, munin wasnt used much ? amarr: zealot was uber solopwn, sacri wasnt used much ? The issue is alway the same, one is the ugly duckling and the other is the chief. Only exception is galleante really which have 2 very widely used HAC. P.S. why do ppl always complain about a ship beeing the worst ? you have 2 HAC anyways. On the otherhand if your ship is not the worst, someone elses is. There is always 1 last place in every statistic, get used to it that it sometimes might happen to you no matter what uber potential you would like to see in your ships. Typhoon anyone ?
Grut	Posted - 2005.12.03 12:53:00 - [149] simple answer... train an eagle you can fit a full rack of neutrons and an ubertank on rmr. Kinsy > deadman you there? Kinsy > are either of us in pods, becase we dont know... Mostly harmless
ThunderGodThor	Posted - 2005.12.03 22:21:00 - [150] 90 pg is probably bout what it should be bumbed up by. But with that i could use just a little cpu mabe 20 or 30 as to fit harders or a med nos takes a little bit of cpu.

Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2005.12.04 10:46:00 - [151] It wouldn't take much, a bit of powergrid and CPU here and there to make Ions fit-able. Neutrons should still be 'The Big Gun', but at the moment they are 'The Big Gun Nobody Will Ever Use'. Electrons should have the ability to be used with a light tank, Ions the mid-range setup and Neutrons for full firepower and no defence. I feel this would go a long way to bringing the Deimos in-line with the other HACs and BCs in RMR. Oh, and let's not forget that the Ishtar plated goes faster than my Deimos. The Firing Range
ThunderGodThor	Posted - 2005.12.04 11:51:00 - [152] Yes she is one slow beast.
Xavier Zyrae	Posted - 2005.12.04 14:34:00 - [153] As a 9-month Deimos pilot myself, I agree with the majority of views posted in this thread. As the Deimos is on TQ atm, she's inflexible but still a feasible combat ship in certain situations. When RMR hits with the Mk II and tanking changes though, there won't be much point in flying one, as others have pointed out throughout this thread. The changes it needs are most definitely a powergrid boost, just a tad more CPU and either a base speed increase or a mass reduction.
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2005.12.04 20:48:00 - [154] Using my, ahem, amazing graphical skills let me show the current situation: Deimos Now: Electrons-----^-----Ions-----------Neutrons *Deimos (How it should* be):** Electrons-----------Io^ns-----------Neutrons As it stands, Neutrons aren't feasible, Ions a pain in the ass and Electrons the only thing one is able to fit with no power core mods. Electrons should be like Focused Beams on the Zealot - a low-grade weapon that can still kill, but allows you to fit a decent tank. Ions should be a middle-range weapon; I shouldn't have to fit upgrades to use them, especially with the RMR patch. I am getting tired of repeating myself really, every single Deimos pilot who has posted here has nodded their head in agreement. It would be nice if this (and the seven page thread about the Zealot) was deemed important enough to get some response from someone official. The Firing Range
Sadist	Posted - 2005.12.04 20:56:00 - [155] Yes, PG boost by 100-120 plz. kthxbye. --------------- VIP member of the [23] Sadist - harsh to the idiots, kind to the smart
Neon Genesis	Posted - 2005.12.04 23:23:00 - [156] Originally by: Dash Ripcock Ishtar: Plate, can be used at range and packs ECM fair enuff Eagle: Extender, can easily dictate range, tough shields CRAP damage Cerberus: Extender, can dictate range, selective damage CRAP damage Zealot: Plate, can dictate range No plate if you want ANY damage Sacrilege: Who needs plates? Crap Damage Muninn: Extender/Plate, can dictate range ?? Same as zealot, if you want to make use of the ship's bonus, where the dmaage comes from, you cant fit a plate. Vagabond: Extender, fast enough to dictate range or engagement I've edited this summary to reflect my opinions, which are underlined. There, i just contributed nothing to your thread
ThunderGodThor	Posted - 2005.12.05 00:24:00 - [157] Originally by: Neon Genesis Originally by: Dash Ripcock Ishtar: Plate, can be used at range and packs ECM fair enuff Eagle: Extender, can easily dictate range, tough shields CRAP damage Cerberus: Extender, can dictate range, selective damage CRAP damage Zealot: Plate, can dictate range No plate if you want ANY damage Sacrilege: Who needs plates? Crap Damage Muninn: Extender/Plate, can dictate range ?? Same as zealot, if you want to make use of the ship's bonus, where the dmaage comes from, you cant fit a plate. Vagabond: Extender, fast enough to dictate range or engagement I've edited this summary to reflect my opinions, which are underlined. LOL. PLZ GET THIS IT IS AFTER THE RMR PATCH THAT DEIMOS REALLY HAS A PROB. Now cerb has crap damage now yes after patch get back to me on that it owns now missles have been fixed. Oh and the new tech 2 missles make it so it can kill intys. Most things about how set up will change after RMR. These changes leave the Diemos underpowered. Oh of all the funny things the brutix HAS THE CPU and PG to easyly fit a FULL set of IONS.That and any thing else too. Oh and might I add it looks like the TECH 2 ver Will easyly be able to fit NEUTRONS. SO i ask the question a tech 1 ship the brutix with 7 guns can fit a full set of ions is there a prob??? The thorax a tech 1 ship Can do the same set up most diemos pilots run with now . I ASK IS DOES THIS LOOK A LITTLE ODD???
Sochin	Posted - 2005.12.05 01:19:00 - [158] I've only been flying a Deimos for a week or so, so I'm not an expert on the subject. I think it would be better to decrease the ship's mass quite abit and prehaps bump up the base speed a little. Nemo me impune lacessit
Lorth	Posted - 2005.12.05 08:18:00 - [159] The deimos suffers from the same problems that everyother short range gallente ship does. Simply put, blasters suck. The blasterthron is a thing of the past and for good reason. The Deimos's day in the sun is vanishing. Even the taranis works better with rails, despite its high speed, and agility. Its the old story, you have to get in close, and once there, the benifits of useing blasters don't make up for the sacrifices that you made to get there in the first place. Nowadays, I fly the ishtar, as a matter of fact, its been months since I've killed anything in a serious fight in a deimos. The ishtar start doing damage to a target far sooner then a deimos can, and with out any fitting troubles at all. The same can be said for other HAC's as well, no special fittings needed really, at least not in comparision to what your typical blaster ship needs. Adding to the troubles are the poor stats of the ship its self. While it has that nice MWD bonus, there's hardly one other thing about the ship that makes you think close range. Its a brick, both in agillity and speed. The fitting screen will make you want to pull your hair out.... Its only real saving grace is that some decent set ups can be done using rails. Not 250's or even 200's, cause those don't fit, but dual 150's. Though when fitting a ship out in this style, the deimos is the last ship I would think of. In the 15-30km range it does ok, but there are plenty of other ships that out class it in this department. I had hoped that with the new drones, the deimos would be helped. But your really still on the same footing as everyother ship with a drone bay. And with tanking becoming the norm, as well as extra hit points, I think the demios ends up as a worse ship overall.
Eyeshadow	Posted - 2005.12.05 11:23:00 - [160] Originally by: Lorth The deimos suffers from the same problems that everyother short range gallente ship does. Simply put, blasters suck. The blasterthron is a thing of the past and for good reason. The Deimos's day in the sun is vanishing. Even the taranis works better with rails, despite its high speed, and agility. Its the old story, you have to get in close, and once there, the benifits of useing blasters don't make up for the sacrifices that you made to get there in the first place. Nowadays, I fly the ishtar, as a matter of fact, its been months since I've killed anything in a serious fight in a deimos. The ishtar start doing damage to a target far sooner then a deimos can, and with out any fitting troubles at all. The same can be said for other HAC's as well, no special fittings needed really, at least not in comparision to what your typical blaster ship needs. Adding to the troubles are the poor stats of the ship its self. While it has that nice MWD bonus, there's hardly one other thing about the ship that makes you think close range. Its a brick, both in agillity and speed. The fitting screen will make you want to pull your hair out.... Its only real saving grace is that some decent set ups can be done using rails. Not 250's or even 200's, cause those don't fit, but dual 150's. Though when fitting a ship out in this style, the deimos is the last ship I would think of. In the 15-30km range it does ok, but there are plenty of other ships that out class it in this department. I had hoped that with the new drones, the deimos would be helped. But your really still on the same footing as everyother ship with a drone bay. And with tanking becoming the norm, as well as extra hit points, I think the demios ends up as a worse ship overall. Quoted for truth My Latest Vid (16/11/05)

Sforza	Posted - 2005.12.05 11:34:00 - [161] Originally by: Lorth Its the old story, you have to get in close, and once there, the benifits of using blasters don't make up for the sacrifices that you made to get there in the first place. Sorry to re-quote something the poster above me quoted, but that one sentence absolutely NAILS what is wrong with blasters. Sforza
Sadist	Posted - 2005.12.05 17:41:00 - [162] Originally by: Lorth Its the old story, you have to get in close, and once there, the benifits of using blasters don't make up for the sacrifices that you made to get there in the first place. It underlines the current problems of all blaster-based gallente ships, namely mega/deimos/thorax. The dps dealt just doesn't cut it, even with all the bonuses included. Not even mentioning the inability to choose damage types :-/ Close range? Pfft. Minmatar have been the kings of close range for quite some time, it amazes me that people have only begun to see this now (myself included). --------------- VIP member of the [23] Sadist - harsh to the idiots, kind to the smart
KilROCK	Posted - 2005.12.05 20:30:00 - [163] /me hugs his 220mm II on his vagabond, dual 650mm II, Gank 800mm II tempest. Seriously I don't think the deimos will get better by just adding powergrid to fit some plate or better weapons, it will still struggle to get in range (even with a speed boost)....
Hanns	Posted - 2005.12.05 22:51:00 - [164] Everyone is complaining about the Deimos speed? isnt that part of the challenge of flying one? if every gallante ship was faster than any other race then they would alwyas get into blaster range, and always win the fight, like the old saying, you cant have your cake and eat it. The deimos is like a rouge class in a fantasy MMO, it packs a punch but is fairly fragile, you need skills and tactics to get into your sweet spot, you use friends to help you do this i.e the tank e.g Sac goes in first and takes the aggro (tho Sac is hardly as good tank as it should be), then you come in, zip in close range and deal the deadly blow! I think the demos speed, and gallante ships speed are fine IMO, but i do see there is a slight problem that you cant fit the most damaging weapons on a viable setup, i wouldnt mind seeing a PG boost on the deimos, but i think the Ishtar needs a serious look at by CCP, imho its just got way to much going for it in comparison to any other ship. i think its due its turn under the nerfbat.
Felxia	Posted - 2005.12.06 12:28:00 - [165] ya, boost the pg ffs
R'adeh	Posted - 2005.12.06 13:55:00 - [166] Originally by: Hobblin I I am expecting the Ishtar to get nerfed soon.. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "blah blah blah, we killed you, blah blah blah, they killed us, blah blah blah, some more smack, blah blah blah killboard ina..."
Crellion	Posted - 2005.12.06 13:56:00 - [167] K a few points first: 1) Deimos will certainly be useless in its current form in a Universe where tank beats gang every time. 2) Eagle is getting better cause of the bonus they say: I say It loses the repair bonus so there is almost no difference. 3) Brutix is ridiculously slow to use blasters. 4) Rails will probably be unable to kill anything post RMR in the time it will take for the other guy to close the distance to where rails dont track. RESULT: Its not the Gallente or the Caldari that will be broken after RMR. Caldari with missles (Cerberus) and Gallente with drones (Ishtar) will be just fine thank you. IT IS THE HYBRID USERS THAT WILL BE BROKEN. Combat in Eve is for those who can hit 0-30kms. Hybrids work either 0-8/10 or 15-100. They can both be countered very easily by anybody who is faster than them an guess what: Deimos aint fast enough to make the gank power post RMR count and Eagle aint fast enough to do any serious dmg b4 every man and his dog get below the Eagle's guns. The assistance Deimos gets from drones is small and the one Eagle gets from missles is ~0. This is the real issue here peeps. One can train 5mill SP in hybrid gunnery and STILL be unable to take any HAC - BC or even top-of-the-line tech I cruisers in a HAC... and thats broken. I think a thread for all hybrids might be in order. As the main gun applicable to two races they should be a treasure to have trained but there is nothing (at least at HAC lvl) than lasers or proj dont do better. (pls dont reply with the usual "gallente have drones - caldari have missles" garbage.Gallente gunboats dont have too many drones no more and Caldari gunboats have like extra 14 dps from missles pffftt)
TuRtLe HeAd	Posted - 2005.12.06 14:30:00 - [168] Edited by: TuRtLe HeAd on 06/12/2005 14:33:12 out of the diemos, vagabond, ishtar and eagle that i own, guess which i fly the most. Yep, the diemos. I love all of them don't get me wrong The diemos is awesome. Theres a multitude of setups you can use on the Diemos, and plating is a very good one. I'd love to see an increase to the cap bonus for the MWD, because it still rapes your capacitor.
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2005.12.07 00:58:00 - [169] So, the Brutix has recently received a powergrid boost. She can now carry seven Ion Blasters with an MWD and M Armour Rep without any power upgrades. Meanwhile, the Deimos can't even fit five. So, are we going to get any kind of response on this issue before the Deimos is left completely in the dust? The Firing Range
Istvaan Shogaatsu	Posted - 2005.12.07 02:49:00 - [170] As a celebrity, and someone who doesn't even fly Deimos, I fully endorse a boost of this fine ship in the hopes that it will initiate similar boosts on ships that also need it.

Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2005.12.07 08:45:00 - [171] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu As a celebrity, and someone who doesn't even fly Deimos, I fully endorse a boost of this fine ship in the hopes that it will initiate similar boosts on ships that also need it. Oh my God! Can I have your autograph? (P.S. Istvaan is a stubborn old Amarr-flying goat, if he feels that the Deimos needs a boost then by golly she certainly does) The Firing Range
Beringe	Posted - 2005.12.07 08:57:00 - [172] Just boost blasters. That should fix any/all problems with deimos and blasterthron. ------------------------------------------- Sometimes, I wake up but keep on dreaming.
Emsigma	Posted - 2005.12.07 09:40:00 - [173] Yes, indeed.. blasters need damage upped by at least 5% and an insane tracking increase. It is so obvious when you orbit another static ship at your optimal and you miss with your guns! ---------- // emsigma
Scalor Valentis	Posted - 2005.12.07 10:14:00 - [174] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu As a celebrity, and someone who doesn't even fly Deimos, I fully endorse a boost of this fine ship in the hopes that it will initiate similar boosts on ships that also need it. isht, the deimos AND zelot, both need more cap. Nexst RMR trend will be Droneswarm-n-nos. Or Projektile and nos. anything that take CAP to fire, is utterly useless, because in RMR: Cap used to fire > cap used to repair damage = its more pro*****ble to save cap to repairers, than dish out damage with cap. You cant reach same cap efficensy rations that now in gankkasetups, thus makeing anything that deal damage and dont use cap autowin. Deimos needs: Cap efecinsy to Blasters, ~150 more grid. Zelot needs: that frekking 5th
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2005.12.07 11:05:00 - [175] Okay, so with a little bit of self-discipline I have done some maths: Theoretical Setup: High 5 * Ion IIs 1* M Nosferatu (Diminishing) Med 1 * 10Mn MWD II 1 * Scrambler (Faint) 1 * Webifier (Fleeting) Low 1 * M Armour Rep II 1 * Explosive Hardener (N-Type) 1 * PDU II 3 * Mag Stab IIs Total Powergrid Used: 1244.8 *Total Powergrid Available:* 1128 Total CPU Used: 432.25 *Total CPU Available:* 412.5 This is taking into account Weapon Upgrades V, Adv Weapon Upgrades IV, Engineering and Electronic V and Energy Grid Upgrades V. Now, the above setup is using all best named T1 gear, with T2 gear where essential (specialisations, better than the best named T1). Personally it seems like a reasonable fit for a Tech 2 Heavy Assault Ship. Pity then that it is no-where near fit-able due to her crippled specifications. Now imagine if you will the Deimos got a 100 more PG and 30 more CPU, with her skills and the PDU II that brings her up to 1260 PG and 450 CPU. At base level she'd have 130 more PG and 60 more CPU than the Thorax. Now, if you ask me that sounds perfectly reasonable for a T2 upgrade on a cruiser, and it does not necessarily mean that Neutrons would be easier to fit - damn, the above setup just fits and that is with the best named everything (we are not counting faction loot, because in a high-risk ship like the Deimos it's unrealistic). The Firing Range
Felxia	Posted - 2005.12.07 11:47:00 - [176] Originally by: Eyeshadow Originally by: Lorth The deimos suffers from the same problems that everyother short range gallente ship does. Simply put, blasters suck. The blasterthron is a thing of the past and for good reason. The Deimos's day in the sun is vanishing. Even the taranis works better with rails, despite its high speed, and agility. Its the old story, you have to get in close, and once there, the benifits of useing blasters don't make up for the sacrifices that you made to get there in the first place. Nowadays, I fly the ishtar, as a matter of fact, its been months since I've killed anything in a serious fight in a deimos. The ishtar start doing damage to a target far sooner then a deimos can, and with out any fitting troubles at all. The same can be said for other HAC's as well, no special fittings needed really, at least not in comparision to what your typical blaster ship needs. Adding to the troubles are the poor stats of the ship its self. While it has that nice MWD bonus, there's hardly one other thing about the ship that makes you think close range. Its a brick, both in agillity and speed. The fitting screen will make you want to pull your hair out.... Its only real saving grace is that some decent set ups can be done using rails. Not 250's or even 200's, cause those don't fit, but dual 150's. Though when fitting a ship out in this style, the deimos is the last ship I would think of. In the 15-30km range it does ok, but there are plenty of other ships that out class it in this department. I had hoped that with the new drones, the deimos would be helped. But your really still on the same footing as everyother ship with a drone bay. And with tanking becoming the norm, as well as extra hit points, I think the demios ends up as a worse ship overall. Quoted for truth Quoted for teh truth
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2005.12.08 12:47:00 - [177] So, no official response either way? You have a lot of unhappy pilots here... The Firing Range
Emsigma	Posted - 2005.12.08 14:31:00 - [178] That is because blasters are not meant to be used :) ---------- // emsigma
Ithildin	Posted - 2005.12.08 14:38:00 - [179] TomB said he'd look into blasters in a different thred somewhere within a month. Can't find it right now, though. How, when, and in what way is left for us to "WTF!?" about. Could we get a character counter for the signature field, like the one we have for regular posts?
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.12.08 14:44:00 - [180] Originally by: Ithildin TomB said he'd look into blasters in a different thred somewhere within a month. Can't find it right now, though. This? Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. --- Spreadsheet - Damage @ range.

Alex Harumichi	Posted - 2005.12.08 14:53:00 - [181] Originally by: Emsigma That is because blasters are not meant to be used :) No no, blasters are very useful for "proving" how absurdly powerful all Gallente ships are, by using theoretical max DPS values. Funny enough, none of these armchair blaster pilots actually seem to use the damn things themselves...
Ante	Posted - 2005.12.08 15:37:00 - [182] One thing that continues to confuse me is why a Neutron Blaster Cannon II uses a substantial amount less grid than a Mega Pulse Laser II, yet a Heavy Neutron Blaster II uses more grid than a Heavy Pulse Laser II. If you applied the same percentages for cruiser sized guns you'd have: Heavy Neutron Blaster II- 198 MW down from 236 MW Heavy Ion Blaster II- 133 MW down from 158 MW Heavy Electron Blaster II- 88 MW down from 105 MW 250mm Railgun II- 202 MW down from 236 MW 200mm Railgun II- 162 MW down from 189 MW Dual 150mm Railgun II- 72 MW down from 84 MW It's 2:30am but can anybody foresee any real problems if these became the new grid reqs? The only thing wrong that I can see, at this wee hour of the morning, is that Dual 150mm Railgun IIs should use the same grid as Heavy Electron Blaster IIs.
Eyeshadow	Posted - 2005.12.08 15:42:00 - [183] IIRC werent large blasters reduced in grid and all blasters reduced in activation cost? Maybe its time for the medium blaster to be reduced in fitting requirements too so they are a bit easier to fit on everything, not just the deimos oh and a 10% blanket increase to blaster + autocannon damage (all sizes) And 10% mass reduction on Deimos too Thanks My Latest Vid (16/11/05)
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2005.12.08 16:08:00 - [184] Originally by: Eyeshadow IIRC werent large blasters reduced in grid and all blasters reduced in activation cost? Maybe its time for the medium blaster to be reduced in fitting requirements too so they are a bit easier to fit on everything, not just the deimos oh and a 10% blanket increase to blaster + autocannon damage (all sizes) And 10% mass reduction on Deimos too Thanks Aye they were, resulting in the Megathron finally being a viable blaster boat (I use the term viable because, despite the whining at the time, she never become an uber end-all ship). It's time Cruisers got the same treatment, I mean look at the fitting requirements on Heavy Neutrons Blaster IIs. Even with the small 100 PG boost I proposed you'd still have zero chance of fitting them to your ship, despite the fact that Mega Neutron IIs are very much able to be slapped onto a Megathron hull. The Firing Range
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.12.08 17:02:00 - [185] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 08/12/2005 17:04:27 The day the deimos gets the ability to fit 5 heavy neutron blaster t2 is the day the vagabond is outdamaged at any range (rmr stats and med t2 explosive drones). The worse part is that, orbiting will not really allow the vagabond to dodge the blasters since its guns barely track better. I'd want the neutron to be an option on blaster ships, as long as ccp fix the damn autocannons too. Blasters ships have neutron, which can't too often be fitted, and autocannons ships have the high grade autocannons, which sucks so much they are not worth fitting (graphs shows damage calculations not accounting reloading time). What's better, a useless blaster or a useless autocannon? And yes, i really think that the issues are linked to each other. The graph above should hint that kind of conclusion. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. --- Spreadsheet - Damage @ range.
Alex Harumichi	Posted - 2005.12.08 17:07:00 - [186] Originally by: Naughty Boy Edited by: Naughty Boy on 08/12/2005 17:04:27 The day the deimos gets the ability to fit 5 heavy neutron blaster t2 is the day the vagabond is outdamaged at any range (rmr stats and med t2 explosive drones). The worse part is that, orbiting will not really allow the vagabond to dodge the blasters since its guns barely track better. Well, to play the devil's advocate here, the Vagabond is the fastest HAC in the game while the Deimos is one of the slowest. By the time the Deimos gets to range, it will more often than not already have bad damage. The Vaga gets to optimal in a zip. Sure, blaster Deimos vs AC Vaga 1vs1 that speed diff would not matter. But in pretty much all other situations, that speed is critical.
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2005.12.08 17:08:00 - [187] Originally by: Naughty Boy Edited by: Naughty Boy on 08/12/2005 17:04:27 The day the deimos gets the ability to fit 5 heavy neutron blaster t2 is the day the vagabond is outdamaged at any range (rmr stats and med t2 explosive drones). The worse part is that, orbiting will not really allow the vagabond to dodge the blasters since its guns barely track better. I'd want the neutron to be an option on blaster ships, as long as ccp fix the damn autocannons too. Blasters ships have neutron, which can't too often be fitted, and autocannons ships have the high grade autocannons, which sucks so much they are not worth fitting (graphs shows damage calculations not accounting reloading time). What's better, a useless blaster or a useless autocannon? And yes, i really think that the issues are linked to each other. The graph above should hint that kind of conclusion. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. I'd never want Neutrons to be a stardard setup on a Deimos, more like something to use in absolute damage situations. I would like to see Ions become the staple of Deimos setups with the other two classes filling either end of the spectrum. The Firing Range
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.12.08 17:18:00 - [188] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 08/12/2005 17:21:48 Originally by: Alex Harumichi Well, to play the devil's advocate here, the Vagabond is the fastest HAC in the game while the Deimos is one of the slowest. By the time the Deimos gets to range, it will more often than not already have bad damage. The Vaga gets to optimal in a zip. It doesn't really work that way, the vagabond gets a shorter optimal than the deimos, and what allows it now to kill the gallente HAC is the sweet spot where it outdamages it, just outside of web range. With Neutron becoming viable, the vagabond is outdamaged by blasters and drones at any range, it can't reallly find that sweet spot (or when it can, it's not by a significant margin). That's why i posted the graph. I'd rather support a range reduction on ions and neutrons (they'd get current ion optimal and falloff), but a boost in damage, so that blasters gets more damage in their area (web range), and autocannons keep their sweet spot (outside web range). The issue is not limited to those ships by the way, it's a general issue. It's not really a problem now with mk2 incursus VS mk2 rifter, since the rifter can now web back. It's still a problem with claw VS taranis, since the plated claw setups are taking a step back in rmr. It's also an issue with mega VS tempest, but it's currently negated by the fact that neutrons can't realistically fit and that the 5th mid in a armor tank + ew config makes a big difference, as does the shield tank + injector + damage mod setup which then gets that sweet spot again. Neutrons should be useful though, but i'm not sure if they should be like they are currently. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. --- Spreadsheet - Damage @ range.
Ithildin	Posted - 2005.12.08 17:27:00 - [189] Blasters need a CPU reduction badly. This or increase in CPU of most Gallente ships (and we can all see which is easiest to do, as well as quickest). Naughty: If blasters are reduced in range, they also need to be boosted in tracking as well as boosted (more) in damage. The area we are talking about is very sensitive as it is hard to stay within such a short distance (depending on ship size here, so I won't give an example). Especially the frigate blasters are suffering from a very short range versus a very high ship speed. What is even more disturbing is that Gallente ships are so slow that we'll hardly ever get in possition if range is reduced. In a direct comparison against Minmatar ships, it's simply beyond my understanding how CCP could ever depict Gallente as the short range race and Minmatar as the long(er) range. Ar+es n. Greek Mythology - The god of war. v. Eve online - Expensive and useless
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.12.08 17:42:00 - [190] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 08/12/2005 17:42:53 Originally by: Ithildin If blasters are reduced in range, they also need to be boosted in tracking as well as boosted (more) in damage. The area we are talking about is very sensitive as it is hard to stay within such a short distance (depending on ship size here, so I won't give an example). Especially the frigate blasters are suffering from a very short range versus a very high ship speed. I'd propose, electron stays the same, ion gets a slightly shorter optimal and falloff than now plus some more damage, and neutron gets a tad more damage but the current range of ions. No range is lost, since neutrons can't really be fitted right now. Like this: Link. (of course, tracking boost isn't showing in here) I see it as an improvement over the current situation if neutron can be fitted in a decent setup. Originally by: Ithildin What is even more disturbing is that Gallente ships are so slow that we'll hardly ever get in possition if range is reduced. In a direct comparison against Minmatar ships, it's simply beyond my understanding how CCP could ever depict Gallente as the short range race and Minmatar as the long(er) range. Yes, what you said. I started training for minmatar ships to use them with autocannons, and i am only training artillery spec because the extra training is marginal, once autocannon spec trained. Then, i trained for the taranis because i was really missing a 3rd mid on my claw. And, post plate changes, i'll probably end up using a rail-taranis as i can't stand the ****ty tracking of artillery. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. --- Spreadsheet - Damage @ range.

Garreck	Posted - 2005.12.08 21:14:00 - [191] Originally by: Naughty Boy The day the deimos gets the ability to fit 5 heavy neutron blaster t2 is the day the vagabond is outdamaged at any range (rmr stats and med t2 explosive drones). The worse part is that, orbiting will not really allow the vagabond to dodge the blasters since its guns barely track better. Your numbers are impressive as ever. Something you fail to take into account is that a deimos running an mwd, repairer, and 5 neutrons spewing antimatter is going to be out of cap with a quickness. Which is why I always end up in debates with people with their graphs and numbers. Tactical reality is always different. A vagabond running at full speed from a diemos with both ships shooting will run the diemos dry. At the right moment, vagabond turns around, sprints straight back at the deimos, webs and scrambles it, and finishes the job. This is the same problem any blaster pilot has against any clever pilot flying a fast ship. Garreck Aku. Soku. Zan.
Ithildin	Posted - 2005.12.08 21:20:00 - [192] Originally by: Naughty Boy I'd propose, electron stays the same, ion gets a slightly shorter optimal and falloff than now plus some more damage, and neutron gets a tad more damage but the current range of ions. No range is lost, since neutrons can't really be fitted right now. Like this: Link. (of course, tracking boost isn't showing in here) I see it as an improvement over the current situation if neutron can be fitted in a decent setup. For reference, could you put the unmodified Neutron, modified neutron, and second highest AC on a Vagabond in the same graph? (Vagabond being the most useful of the two Minnie HACs) Ar+es n. Greek Mythology - The god of war. v. Eve online - Expensive and useless
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.12.08 22:36:00 - [193] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 08/12/2005 22:37:51 Originally by: Garreck Your numbers are impressive as ever. Something you fail to take into account is that a deimos running an mwd, repairer, and 5 neutrons spewing antimatter is going to be out of cap with a quickness. I'm confident a vagabond would still not die to deimos with neutrons, with the fight starting outside web range, provided same skill points and decent non-specialized fittings. This simply because of the cap issue, the ability of the vagabond to either use a cap boosted shield tank or an extender-based shield tank, and the ability to disengage if things go wrong. Though, I think it's good for blasters and autocannons to stay different, minmatar ships can't generally compete in tanking or in pure damage output, they need their flexibility and their ability to exploit the enemy weakness: range for blasters, tracking at very close range for pulses... That's why i'd rather have blasters more damage focused, and autocannons keeping their range flexibility, to allow them to have a favored range where to stay to compete. The code for cap consumption is slowly getting into the model, by the way. Originally by: Garreck This is the same problem any blaster pilot has against any clever pilot flying a fast ship. Eh, I fly gallente ships too, i know the feeling Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. --- Spreadsheet - Damage @ range.
Garreck	Posted - 2005.12.08 22:44:00 - [194] Originally by: Naughty Boy The code for cap consumption is slowly getting into the model, by the way. You number crunchers are certainly worth keeping around Garreck Aku. Soku. Zan.
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.12.08 23:09:00 - [195] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 08/12/2005 23:13:19 Originally by: Ithildin For reference, could you put the unmodified Neutron, modified neutron, and second highest AC on a Vagabond in the same graph? (Vagabond being the most useful of the two Minnie HACs) No damage mod, no drone No damage mod, drones 3 damage mods, no drone 3 (AC) or 2 (blasters) damage mods, drones 3 damage mods, no drone I don't really know if it's worth in a 1 VS 1 spending time shooting the drones, they deal decent damage but vagabond and deimos aren't exactly tankers. With the drones of the deimos dealing post RMR above 100 dps, it makes a decent difference in the big picture. Even with neutrons as they are, both ships have their role, as the deimos will never compete with the speed of the vagabond, and the vagabond will never compete with the damage up close of the deimos. I'm a bit confused because i understand that blasters aren't often considered worth using, because of the "too heavy trade-off to get in range for too poor damage once in there". However, does it mean that blasters need more damage, or more range? Considering that there is a thread with zealot pilots asking for more damage at their pulse range, i sometimes really wonder... Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. --- Spreadsheet - Damage @ range.
Ithildin	Posted - 2005.12.08 23:32:00 - [196] I wasn't asking for materials on a 1v1, I was asking for a comparison between the two ships against a random target. The Vagabond, you see, is nearly twice as fast as the Deimos (MWDing) and still does comparable damage. This means that, quite possibly, the Vagabond is a lot better ship in any given situation. It might not be better in a strict 1v1 against a Deimos, but it sure has the agilty, sig radius, and speed advantage for tackling other Cruisers and larger. I see little problem in letting the Deimos catch up a little in range by granting better fitting requirements, since the Deimos is still lacking in most other aspects of a close ranged ship. The problem is really that the reward for getting in range is very low - considering how easy it is to make the Deimos not get in range (or force it to die trying). In essence, blasters, since they are fitted on such sluggish ships, are weapons more ideal for combating bigger (and more sluggish) ships such as, for the Blasterthron, Dreadnoughts, Carriers, and Titans. Although, it'll be eaten for breakfast by the latter two, and it does too little damage against the Dread. So, once again, it will not hurt letting the blasters catch up a bit in range by making neutrons viable since the Minmatar ships are still better in almost every other way when it comes to close range combat. Not to mention that the "sweet spot" still exist, if you manage to pop those drones (otherwise it's more or less a draw, and it'll come down to resistances, where the Minmatar HACs will win due to EXP/EM damage). Ar+es n. Greek Mythology - The god of war. v. Eve online - Expensive and useless
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.12.09 00:07:00 - [197] Yes, i see your point. There are so many wrong things with blasterships that i guess it could be fine for neutrons to be viable. I'm not that convinced that blasters need the range, i'd rather say they need more speed/agility not to be kited so easily and make the risk worth taking, but a little bit of everything (cap, range, damage, speed) can't hurt really. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. --- Spreadsheet - Damage @ range.
Ithildin	Posted - 2005.12.09 08:33:00 - [198] It... can potentially hurt to give the ship better stats, in fact. Railgun kitted Gallente ships (Oh, the horrid and hurtful truth!) actually perform quite well and tend not to need a boost. Actually boosting agility or speed, however, shouldn't do railgun ships too good. However, Railguns is exactly the reason why you mustn't simply add CPU/PG to the tight Gallente ships but go to the core problem - the blasters themselves. Ar+es n. Greek Mythology - The god of war. v. Eve online - Expensive and useless
Emsigma	Posted - 2005.12.09 08:52:00 - [199] I totally agree. The small and large railguns are good as they are, but the medium ones are a bit borked. Fill half your low slots with RCU and you can fit 5x 250mm t2 or 5x neutrons :) ---------- // emsigma
Theron Gyrow	Posted - 2005.12.09 08:57:00 - [200] Originally by: Naughty Boy Edited by: Naughty Boy on 08/12/2005 17:21:48 Originally by: Alex Harumichi Well, to play the devil's advocate here, the Vagabond is the fastest HAC in the game while the Deimos is one of the slowest. By the time the Deimos gets to range, it will more often than not already have bad damage. The Vaga gets to optimal in a zip. It doesn't really work that way, the vagabond gets a shorter optimal than the deimos, and what allows it now to kill the gallente HAC is the sweet spot where it outdamages it, just outside of web range. With Neutron becoming viable, the vagabond is outdamaged by blasters and drones at any range, it can't reallly find that sweet spot (or when it can, it's not by a significant margin). That's why i posted the graph. One little fact that should indeed make Vagabond the winner against Deimos even with viable neutrons: Vagabond: signature radius 115 Deimos: signature radius 160 (+39%) That gives Vaga's 220mm ACs about 63% better tracking than Deimos's neutrons. Include that, add some transversal to that graph and see what it looks like then. -- Gradient's forum

without	Posted - 2005.12.09 09:40:00 - [201] Originally by: Theron Gyrow Originally by: Naughty Boy Edited by: Naughty Boy on 08/12/2005 17:21:48 Originally by: Alex Harumichi Well, to play the devil's advocate here, the Vagabond is the fastest HAC in the game while the Deimos is one of the slowest. By the time the Deimos gets to range, it will more often than not already have bad damage. The Vaga gets to optimal in a zip. It doesn't really work that way, the vagabond gets a shorter optimal than the deimos, and what allows it now to kill the gallente HAC is the sweet spot where it outdamages it, just outside of web range. With Neutron becoming viable, the vagabond is outdamaged by blasters and drones at any range, it can't reallly find that sweet spot (or when it can, it's not by a significant margin). That's why i posted the graph. One little fact that should indeed make Vagabond the winner against Deimos even with viable neutrons: Vagabond: signature radius 115 Deimos: signature radius 160 (+39%) That gives Vaga's 220mm ACs about 63% better tracking than Deimos's neutrons. Include that, add some transversal to that graph and see what it looks like then. well spoted
ThunderGodThor	Posted - 2005.12.09 11:22:00 - [202] Add a MWD on that it is the size of a moon at a 1000. OUCH.
DeGrand	Posted - 2005.12.09 11:57:00 - [203] Anything bigger than a frigate using blasters has been FUBAR for a long time, now with RMR coming..(webbing drones yikes etc)..I so regret not specialising in Minmatar ships instead of Gallente. Anything can just stay out of range of your uber-wtfpwn blasterboat and rip you to pieces. Guess ill just have to hope that eventually my megathron/deimos will get some loving.
Yarek Balear	Posted - 2005.12.09 12:35:00 - [204] You're joking right ??? I see exactly the opposite effect of what you're suggesting... With the webbing drones etc, Gallente carry more than any other ship. You'll be able to get your drones out, web/target jam your opponent, keep them in your range and blast them to bits without having to keep your MWD/AB running.
Alex Harumichi	Posted - 2005.12.09 12:43:00 - [205] Originally by: Yarek Balear You're joking right ??? I see exactly the opposite effect of what you're suggesting... With the webbing drones etc, Gallente carry more than any other ship. You'll be able to get your drones out, web/target jam your opponent, keep them in your range and blast them to bits without having to keep your MWD/AB running. Ummm. Yes, on the average, Gallente ships can carry more drones than other ships. However, after the patch they'll mostly be able to launch the same number of drones as any other ship. Sure, they may have extra drones sitting in drone bay, but that's like extra missiles in the cargo bay -- it's nice and all, but what matters is how many you can launch at once, not carry. Sure, the Deimos can launch a few webber and jammer drones -- but so can pretty much any other ship.
Theron Gyrow	Posted - 2005.12.09 12:44:00 - [206] Originally by: Yarek Balear You're joking right ??? I see exactly the opposite effect of what you're suggesting... With the webbing drones etc, Gallente carry more than any other ship. You'll be able to get your drones out, web/target jam your opponent, keep them in your range and blast them to bits without having to keep your MWD/AB running. Example with random numbers: During closing, you web the opponent by 50% using drones. He webs you back by 25% (half the drones). His max speed is about 400 m/s - he loses 200 m/s speed. Your max speed is about 1500 m/s - you lose 375 m/s speed. Result: it takes more time for you to get to your range, while he happily keeps killing you. -- Gradient's forum
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.12.09 13:14:00 - [207] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 09/12/2005 13:14:33 Originally by: Theron Gyrow One little fact that should indeed make Vagabond the winner against Deimos even with viable neutrons: Vagabond: signature radius 115 Deimos: signature radius 160 (+39%) That gives Vaga's 220mm ACs about 63% better tracking than Deimos's neutrons. Include that, add some transversal to that graph and see what it looks like then. The speeds required for tracking to become an issue are so high that it requires an mwd for the vagabond to achieve them, at which point it messes up its own tracking more than the deimos. At lower speeds, the tracking is good enough for both ships to hit, damage reduction is only caused by falloff. But, yeah, i already admitted that the vagabond would probably still pop the deimos, or at least not die to it. That wasn't the point I was trying to make, i was more trying to point out that the extra range of neutron blasters (could they be fitted more easily) tends to make the life of minmatar AC ships really more difficult. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. --- Spreadsheet - Damage @ range.
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.12.09 13:22:00 - [208] Originally by: Naughty Boy The speeds required for tracking to become an issue are so high that it requires an mwd for the vagabond to achieve them, at which point it messes up its own tracking more than the deimos. At lower speeds, the tracking is good enough for both ships to hit, damage reduction is only caused by falloff. Wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong. You should try flying a short ranger someday. Cause clearly you never have. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.12.09 13:29:00 - [209] Originally by: Gariuys Wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong. You should try flying a short ranger someday. Cause clearly you never have. In eve, turrets can miss even under optimal circumstances and tracking is caped, which means that you can't improve your hit type (get more "well aimed" shots) by improving your tracking or shooting a big target with small guns. Points at tracking guide. I know, it's counter-intuitive. I bloody hope you can get past that. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. --- Spreadsheet - Damage @ range.
Luc Boye	Posted - 2005.12.09 13:33:00 - [210] fck gallente tbh, Im going caldari.

Gariuys	Posted - 2005.12.09 13:40:00 - [211] Edited by: Gariuys on 09/12/2005 13:40:44 Originally by: Naughty Boy Originally by: Gariuys Wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong. You should try flying a short ranger someday. Cause clearly you never have. In eve, turrets can miss even under optimal circumstances and tracking is caped, which means that you can't improve your hit type (get more "well aimed" shots) by improving your tracking or shooting a big target with small guns. Points at tracking guide. I know, it's counter-intuitive. I bloody hope you can get past that. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. Thanks, Naughty Boy, some stupid flash guide is indeed worth well more then opinions and experiences of people that have flown blasterboats since day one, I'm a deimos pilot exclusively for instance. And one of the first owners if not the first owner of a deimos, haven't flown anything else for longer then 10 minutes since that day. And there are several others in this thread as well. What I just quoted from you is absolute BULLL****. No matter what that guide says. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.12.09 13:47:00 - [212] Originally by: Gariuys Thanks, Naughty Boy, some stupid flash guide is indeed worth well more then opinions and experiences of people that have flown blasterboats since day one, I'm a deimos pilot exclusively for instance. And one of the first owners if not the first owner of a deimos, haven't flown anything else for longer then 10 minutes since that day. And there are several others in this thread as well. What I just quoted from you is absolute BULLL****. No matter what that guide says. Oh, no, i'm being patronized across the internet. When namecalling fails, maybe it's time to backup your claims? Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. --- Spreadsheet - Damage @ range.
Yarek Balear	Posted - 2005.12.09 13:48:00 - [213] Edited by: Yarek Balear on 09/12/2005 13:49:00 Originally by: Gariuys Thanks, Naughty Boy, some stupid flash guide is indeed worth well more then opinions and experiences of people that have flown blasterboats since day one, I'm a deimos pilot exclusively for instance. And one of the first owners if not the first owner of a deimos, haven't flown anything else for longer then 10 minutes since that day. And there are several others in this thread as well. What I just quoted from you is absolute BULLL****. No matter what that guide says. Great to see that EVE still appeals to the younger audience....
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.12.09 13:57:00 - [214] I'm not patronizing you, I'm saying that that guide is just that. A GUIDE not some holy bible that tells you everything you need to know about combat, it's a indicator. Combat logs show quite clearly, that superior tracking DOES matter. It gets you better hits across the board. And backup my claim? I've been flying that damn ship for however logn it's been released, I bloody well know how it handles. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
theRaptor	Posted - 2005.12.09 14:25:00 - [215] Originally by: Ithildin It... can potentially hurt to give the ship better stats, in fact. Railgun kitted Gallente ships (Oh, the horrid and hurtful truth!) actually perform quite well and tend not to need a boost. Actually boosting agility or speed, however, shouldn't do railgun ships too good. However, Railguns is exactly the reason why you mustn't simply add CPU/PG to the tight Gallente ships but go to the core problem - the blasters themselves. Quiet you fool, they musn't know the terrible secret. *theRaptor gets back to training railgun specs to V. I don't think you trust, in, my, self-righteous suicide.
Gronsak	Posted - 2005.12.09 14:58:00 - [216] Originally by: Luc Boye fck gallente tbh, Im going caldari. they had one thing going for them, that was the sniperthron with pure gank, now tempest is better sniper. raven is better clsoe range auto tempest is also argubly better close range id also train caldari if it wasnt for my 10mil sp in gunnry and 500k in missiles :/
Eyeshadow	Posted - 2005.12.09 15:02:00 - [217] Think i'll stick to Gallente thank you very much There are things that need tweaking but it aint the end of the world being spec'd in gallente. Just so you know, my dominix killed a tempest, twice, both long range and short range fitted on Sisi. But this thread is about the Deimos. My Latest Vid (16/11/05)
Ange1	Posted - 2005.12.30 00:24:00 - [218] Edited by: Ange1 on 30/12/2005 00:30:26 Having flown the Deimos since it was pretty much released onto the Market, I have to say I love this little ship of green engine trailness. Its a powerful little ship with good looks and I prefer it over any HAC, any day of the week. But... its lacking a little. My only real complaint is the Powergrid. The Deimos has very little bonus over the Thorax and yes it makes it a pain to fit a full set of Ions, let alone Neutrons... having said that Neutrons have always been PG intensive things... that aside though. My current setup is a near perfect balance of Tank and Damage, mainly due to faction/officer mods and implants fitted. My slave implants and Centum rep give me a formidable tank, yet I also have a 9.89 dmg modifier on my Ions to give me a formidable punch as well... but many people do not have this luxury. They don't have ISK to throw about on these things nor have been specialising for as long as I and a few others have in them and so they will invariably end up with fitting problems. Its taken me 15 months to work to this state. On a standard setup, the Deimos is lacking I think and needs a little loving. As far as I'm concerned, all it needs is a boost in PG, the rest of it is fine. ======================= The Establishment is at your service...
LUKEC	Posted - 2005.12.30 01:32:00 - [219] so deimos is fine? man you don't need any officer/faction implants or officer stuff on vaga that would probably still kill that deimos. HatePeace LoveWar[ATUK] > they ebayed the bs for grain
Ange1	Posted - 2005.12.30 04:51:00 - [220] Originally by: LUKEC so deimos is fine? man you don't need any officer/faction implants or officer stuff on vaga that would probably still kill that deimos. lol, every little helps. If a Centum rep helps me last 5 seconds longer, then so be it =P ======================= The Establishment is at your service...

Neverblu	Posted - 2006.01.03 07:40:00 - [221] Edited by: Neverblu on 03/01/2006 07:41:50 Yea, Deimos Needs more powergrid, would be nice atleast, i mean this setup is ok, but your cap recharge blows, you can expand some things for named items aas far as powergrid changes go, say corelum armor repper or something but....cap recharge lacking? because no room for modules and still be able to have something usefull in a high slot w/o using rcu's or power diag's. and blasters use to much cpu and need better tracking, theyre supposed to be uber at close range fighting....bleh :\ This is w/ Hullupgrades 5 Wep Upgrades 5, Advanced Wep upgrades 5 Energy Grid Upgrades 5 Engineering and Electronics 5 as far as fitting requirements lol, its rediculous o.O 406.25/412.5cpu w/ 2 Adaptive Nano II's 1313.5/1397.25powergrid W/ 2 Adaptive Nano II's 434.25/412.5cpu w/2 Armor Hardener II's 1311.5/1397powergrid W/ 2 Armor Hardener II's Highs 5x Heavy Ion Blaster II - 39cpu - 158pg (29.25cpu - 118.5pg) Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I -20cpu -175pg Mids 10mn Microwarpdrive II - 50cpu - 165pg Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I - 22cpu - 1pg Fleeting Progressive Warp Scrambler I - 27cpu - 1pg Lows Medium Armor Repairer II - 28cpu - 173pg 2x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II - 30cpu - 2pg OR 2x Armor Hardener II - 44cpu - 1pg 800mm Rolled Tungsten Plate I - 23cpu - 200pg 2x Reactor Control Unit II - 20cpu (15cpu)
Nyphur	Posted - 2006.01.03 07:52:00 - [222] Originally by: Ange1 Originally by: LUKEC so deimos is fine? man you don't need any officer/faction implants or officer stuff on vaga that would probably still kill that deimos. lol, every little helps. If a Centum rep helps me last 5 seconds longer, then so be it =P ^^^ This man knows how to fly his ship. Well done, you rich bastard :).
Taaser	Posted - 2006.01.03 12:32:00 - [223] /signed
Bbllaarrgg	Posted - 2006.01.12 13:41:00 - [224] More PG! ... or just reduce the pg needs of neutrons... Anyway, the sacri is worse, please fix that 1st _________________________ Insert fnord here.
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.01.12 14:07:00 - [225] Originally by: Bbllaarrgg More PG! ... or just reduce the pg needs of neutrons... Anyway, the sacri is worse, please fix that 1st Actually, what's so wrong with fixing all of the broken T2 ships at the same time? Ares, Raptor, Deimos, Sacrilege, etc. It's about time they reviewed what happened to all the great ships they designed in stages, and then fixed them to be continuous with the current ship armada. Designing in stages makes for what, in Warhammer terms, is called Codex Creeping. (For those of you who don't know WH:40k, Codex Creeping means: new race's rules are better and stronger than the old races) In EVE terms, this means that new lines of ships are better balanced and fit in with their role better than the older ships. Luckily EVE's got intelligent developer team, which means only a few rare specimen of ships suffer instead of entire races/classes (Preemptive: Matari people shuddup :p). Nyx is Erebos' wife. Together they have two children, Thanatos and Charon. Why is Charon Caldari?!
R Dan	Posted - 2006.01.12 15:01:00 - [226] I've had a Deimos since pretty much as soon as they came out, due to already have gallente cruiser 5 for the Thorax, -and being a rich bugger (at the time). I even flew them a couple of times in combat, and loved them! trouble is they cant do what they are designed to do. I still own a Deimos. but other than move it from one base to another a couple of times have left it to gather dust. Occasionally i take it out to try it, testing it on corp mates etc. and i find its still lacking. Its so cap hungry that even if i can get it into range i dont have much time left to stay there before sucumming to enemy fire. And before someone is telling me its because I dont have the skills for it: I am well trained for gallente blaster boats thank you, complete with maxed cap skills, obviously engineering electronics 5, with advanced weapons upgrades 4. and heavy assault cruiser 5. and with implants that help as well. I lost to a harpy the last time i tried it at close range. Thats right an assault frigate would have beaten off my blaster deimos one on one , starting at 15kms range. So it wouldnt have had a scrambler but its still disgusting. So these days I'll be seen flying a vagabond, ok so my skills arnt quite so matched for a vaga, but the ship its self makes up for the skill differences. Bite me....for i taste good :)
Kaeten	Posted - 2006.01.12 15:19:00 - [227] Edited by: Kaeten on 12/01/2006 15:18:47 boost it ffs, nore than enough reasons here Latest Movie: RKK - Meatshield
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.01.12 15:25:00 - [228] pffft noobs Neutron Blaster Cannon II x 1, 200mm Autocannon II x 4, Small Nos x 1, 10mn MWD II x 1, Stasis Web x 1, Large Shield Booster II x 1, RCU II x 6. THAT's how you setup a Deimos.
LUKEC	Posted - 2006.01.12 15:52:00 - [229] Originally by: Sarmaul pffft noobs Neutron Blaster Cannon II x 1, 200mm Autocannon II x 4, Small Nos x 1, 10mn MWD II x 1, Stasis Web x 1, Large Shield Booster II x 1, RCU II x 6. THAT's how you setup a Deimos. 5x true sansha RCU and officer cpu, else you run out of cpu. Oh and 5 harversters in drone bay ... so you acutally can do something with it and useless argument is wrong. I use no guns... i smack to death.
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.01.24 14:43:00 - [230] I had a look today at the new T2 Battlecruisers, namely the Astarte since she presents the most competition to the Deimos. Let's have a look at her fitting statistics: Astarte 1450/440 PG/CPU Base 1812.5/550 w/ Engineering/Electronics V Deimos 860/330 PG/CPU Base 1075/412.5 w/ Engineering/Electronics V So, the Astarte has one more high slot and one more med-slot, and to fill this she has 737 PG and 137.5 CPU? Good grief that's an awful difference don't you think? Granted she's slower with slightly lower resists (balanced by her armour repair bonus), but by golly is her damage output an absurd amount higher. She has the same damage bonuses, more turret slots and guess what - she can actually fit Heavy Ion Blaster IIs. I am not saying "Nerf the Astarte", I am just saying "For goodness' sake please make the Deimos easier to fit!". The Firing Range

Gariuys	Posted - 2006.01.24 14:51:00 - [231] Edited by: Gariuys on 24/01/2006 14:55:33 Guess what I'll be training up for. Slower and bigger sig for almost double damage output, I'll take that anyday of the week. Already got the basis for a setup lined up. 7x ion II 1x SS mwd, 1x fleeting web, 1x scrambler, 1x DB med cap injector 1x TS armor rep, 1x SS armor rep, 1x DB energized explosive, 1x DB energized adaptive nano membrane, 2x SS mag field. Bit of a hopflotch transfer of a deimos setup without nos, but looks good on paper. ( now to get the darn skills up ) ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
SasRipper	Posted - 2006.01.24 14:59:00 - [232] Iwont tell u my setup however deimos is fine as it is so what u need adavanced weapon upgrades 4 to fit most good setups if you dont have it what are you doing flying a hac? It is well known deimos cant tank for **** however they do have the highest dps of any hac since rmr as a ganka zeolot is no longer vialble, as with all blaster ships at present there hard to fit and hard to tank without high skills or faction, I personlly dont think they should boost the deimos just nerf the others ------------------------------------------- D!E with Honour mercs for hire msg 4 info.
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.01.24 15:29:00 - [233] Originally by: SasRipper Iwont tell u my setup however deimos is fine as it is so what u need adavanced weapon upgrades 4 to fit most good setups if you dont have it what are you doing flying a hac? I don't, and many Deimos pilots in this thread agree with me. Without beating my chest, I have full fitting skills and I have been flying a Deimos for over a year yet I still can't outfit my Deimos with a suite of Ion Blasters without making major sacrifices elsewhere in my setup. I am not going to fit her with faction/officer gear since my in-game profession is simply too high-risk to warrant the expenditure. Originally by: SasRipper It is well known deimos cant tank for ** however they do have the highest dps of any hac since rmr as a ganka zeolot is no longer vialble, as with all blaster ships at present there hard to fit and hard to tank without high skills or faction, I personlly dont think they should boost the deimos just nerf the others Considering most Deimos pilots are forced to use Electrons or an Electron/Ion mix, the damage output on the guns is similar to that of a Zealot. The Zealot can, however, still hit from outside of web-range which makes her far safer to fly against a Battleship, and pain to MWD towards. This isn't a question of the other HACs, I am talking about the Deimos. If the other HACs have issues they can be addressed by those who fly them. I did some more comparisons, this time concerning velocity: Sacrilege/ Maller = 175/175 Zealot/ Omen = 215/190 Ishtar/ Vexor = 190/170 Deimos/ Thorax = 170/180 Vagabond/ Stabber = 242/235 Muninn/ Rupture = 204/200 Cerberus/ Caracal = 185/187** Eagle/ Moa = 175/175 So, only two HACs are actually slower than their Tech 1 parent. However, the Cerberus is only 2ms slower whereas the Deimos is 10ms slower. The Cerberus is a missile ship, so her slightly lower velocity shouldnÆt have much impact. However, the Deimos is by definition a close-range ship, yet sheÆs slower than the ship sheÆs supposed to be improving upon by specialising? Great û a specialised close-range blaster ship that can neither get in range nor use her mid-range blasters. What I suspect happened was that CCP brought out the Heavy Assaults knowing that a large number of people flew the Thorax. Rather than make the Deimos the close-range killer she was supposed to be and risk cries from the EVE public since theyÆd be the ship to see the most immediate deployment, they gave her the most extensive graphical overhaul and packaged her pre-nerfed hoping our eyes would be blinded by her luscious lines and camouflaged skin. Well, the relationship is reaching maturity now CCP and weÆre more interested with whatÆs inside than a beautiful exterior. She needs: [1] The same velocity and agility as a Thorax. At least. [2] The ability to field med-range blasters, namely Heavy Ion Blaster IIs. The Firing Range
Asurix	Posted - 2006.01.24 15:41:00 - [234] 5 med ion blaster II, small nosf named 10mn MWD, disruptor, webber med repper, 3 hardener, mag stab, PDU II This fits, don't know what's wrong with it tbh only prob is the velocity which is just retarded imo
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.01.24 15:44:00 - [235] Originally by: Asurix 5 med ion blaster II, small nosf named 10mn MWD, disruptor, webber med repper, 3 hardener, mag stab, PDU II This fits, don't know what's wrong with it tbh only prob is the velocity which is just retarded imo That's what's wrong. You have a power module in the low-slots and a frigate module in the high-slots in order to fit Ion Blasters to your Tech 2 blaster ship. I have all cruiser modules fitted to my Zealot, and she still has plenty of power-grid left over. The Firing Range
Ange1	Posted - 2006.01.24 15:48:00 - [236] Originally by: Dash Ripcock I am not going to fit her with faction/officer gear since my in-game profession is simply too high-risk to warrant the expenditure. Oh you really should. It makes PvP even more of a rush when you have something so valuable to protect. The Establishment lost 2 HAC's the other day, one of them my Deimos and both of us had 3-4 officer mods on, but it allowed us to maintain the fight a lot longer. The loss was big, but I enjoyed myself and it wasn't all in vain either. ======================= The Establishment is at your service...
Asurix	Posted - 2006.01.24 15:54:00 - [237] Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: Asurix 5 med ion blaster II, small nosf named 10mn MWD, disruptor, webber med repper, 3 hardener, mag stab, PDU II This fits, don't know what's wrong with it tbh only prob is the velocity which is just retarded imo That's what's wrong. You have a power module in the low-slots and a frigate module in the high-slots in order to fit Ion Blasters to your Tech 2 blaster ship. I have all cruiser modules fitted to my Zealot, and she still has plenty of power-grid left over. I could maybe drop the PDU for a relay, and the nosf is not really needed anyway On a zealot if you wanna fit heavy beams you need a power mod too
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.01.24 16:07:00 - [238] Originally by: Asurix Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: Asurix 5 med ion blaster II, small nosf named 10mn MWD, disruptor, webber med repper, 3 hardener, mag stab, PDU II This fits, don't know what's wrong with it tbh only prob is the velocity which is just retarded imo That's what's wrong. You have a power module in the low-slots and a frigate module in the high-slots in order to fit Ion Blasters to your Tech 2 blaster ship. I have all cruiser modules fitted to my Zealot, and she still has plenty of power-grid left over. I could maybe drop the PDU for a relay, and the nosf is not really needed anyway On a zealot if you wanna fit heavy beams you need a power mod too I think you're missing the crux of my argument. The Deimos is a blaster ship. Not a hybrid ship, a blaster ship. She should be able to fly with her med-range blasters without requiring sacrifices in order to meet her measly fitting statistics. The numbers are there - it's plainly obvious that she needs more CPU and PG. Sure I can fit a Zealot out with Beams, then I can hit at stupefying ranges but be vulnerable up close. But then the Zealot is a laser platform, not a Heavy Pulse platform. The Deimos is a Blaster platform. The Firing Range
Gariuys	Posted - 2006.01.24 16:55:00 - [239] Originally by: Dash Ripcock What I suspect happened was that CCP brought out the Heavy Assaults knowing that a large number of people flew the Thorax. Rather than make the Deimos the close-range killer she was supposed to be and risk cries from the EVE public since theyÆd be the ship to see the most immediate deployment, they gave her the most extensive graphical overhaul and packaged her pre-nerfed hoping our eyes would be blinded by her luscious lines and camouflaged skin. Well, the relationship is reaching maturity now CCP and weÆre more interested with whatÆs inside than a beautiful exterior. She needs: [1] The same velocity and agility as a Thorax. At least. [2] The ability to field med-range blasters, namely Heavy Ion Blaster IIs. I'll bet a full faction fitted deimos on that being not far from the truth at all ( hey if you're wrong, you get a free toy to play with ;) ) ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Eyeshadow	Posted - 2006.01.24 17:15:00 - [240] Im gonna slighty **** on the parade here and say i got a useable setup out of a deimos that can hit 800 DPS. However, this does not change the fact its a fat slow mofo that cant tank for squat and the very nature of the beast means it will either kill or be killed (there aint no running once u under 10km) Now the Astarte is a TRUE blasterboat imo. Uber dmg, decent tank. It makes it worth getting as close as you need to (and it can hit over 1k DPS quite easily with a pretty good tank) My Latest Vid (16/11/05)

Asurix	Posted - 2006.01.24 17:18:00 - [241] astarte and deimos tho, that's a big difference in price even worse then HAC's if u lose it hehe tho if u do you're a noob an should be shot etc but nvm
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.01.24 17:38:00 - [242] Originally by: Eyeshadow Im gonna slighty **** on the parade here and say i got a useable setup out of a deimos that can hit 800 DPS. However, this does not change the fact its a fat slow mofo that cant tank for squat and the very nature of the beast means it will either kill or be killed (there aint no running once u under 10km) Now the Astarte is a TRUE blasterboat imo. Uber dmg, decent tank. It makes it worth getting as close as you need to (and it can hit over 1k DPS quite easily with a pretty good tank) Deimos with a rack of Ion Blaster IIs, good skills and three Mag Stab IIs does 500 DPS. With Void it does 625. With a rack of medium drones she does about 725 DPS. That's with an RCU II in the lows and a lot of T1 named equipment that seriously compromise her defences. Where did you get 800 from, and still get a useable setup? The Firing Range
Mag's	Posted - 2006.01.24 18:18:00 - [243] Edited by: Mag''s on 24/01/2006 18:19:07 oops
Capt 69	Posted - 2006.01.24 18:57:00 - [244] Originally by: Rod Blaine I never fit a 1600mm on a deimos anyway. It gimps the ship to no end, utterly useless ship once you fit that. I use an 800mm II plate, or none at all. Then again, the 800mm II fits with 5 heavy ions and an ABII quite decently. Once you need the mwd you're screwed. An mwd setup means no plate, unless you go for electron II's and an 800mm plate. Yes that means deimos is maybe one of the weakest hac's in hac v hac or hac v bc, generally speaking. But how strange is that ? Tell me, what ship can be designed for short range, yet be cap hungry with a low cap, have low hitpoint total, and be grid poor and still function as a short range beast ? None can, it's that easy. Of course, this only gets most ibvious in 1v1, in 3v1 a blasterthron for example still works pretty fine, as does a deimos. Sometimes, in 1v1 it'll work fine too, for example when youve got a tracking disruptor on that mega and end up at 7km from a geddon with pulses. In general however, blasterboats are too weak to really function well. Which is why I'm glad to to see the damage bonus of the deimos work on rails as well. /signed. A deimos at close range is a dead deimos. Hit it mith a medium neutraliser and he's history. That sucks pretty bad considering its the only range your gonna do damage at. I fought one in my uberferox and he went down REAL hard. Didn't take him down because he docked (at 12% hull :-) ) but the guy was asking if i'd ransom in local. I'm of the opinion that this shouldn't be so. A HAC should reasonably pwn the majority of peeps in BC's, and the occasional bs, otherwise whats the justification for spending 70 - 100 mil on a ship that insures for 15 when you can spend 25 for a ship instead. Inappropriate signature content. --Jorauk
LUKEC	Posted - 2006.01.24 19:00:00 - [245] actually deimos has good use... npcing :) apart from that it is very bad investment. I use no guns... i smack to death.
Eyeshadow	Posted - 2006.01.25 14:16:00 - [246] 2 electron IIs 3 ION IIs 1 medium NOS 1 named or SS MWD web + scram 1 medium rep 1 faction hard 1 PDU 3 dmg mods Void in the guns, HAC 5, 5% dmg implant and 5 tech2 hammerheads. Do the calculations (everything else maxed, which im sure you have dash, maybe minus the implant) My Latest Vid (16/11/05)
Eyeshadow	Posted - 2006.01.25 14:17:00 - [247] Oh and 5 tech2 hammerheads with top skills is nearly 150 DPS My Latest Vid (16/11/05)
LUKEC	Posted - 2006.01.25 14:29:00 - [248] eyeshadow... so how much better you rate your setup than similar setup on thorax :)? Something like: 5x electronsII mwd, web, scram mar, 800mm t2, mix of membranes/dmg mods Oh and don't forget, 150dps from hammerheads still :) I doubt deimos is worth flying :) I use no guns... i smack to death.
Gariuys	Posted - 2006.01.25 14:30:00 - [249] Edited by: Gariuys on 25/01/2006 14:32:02 Void is pretty nice. But 800 seems a bit low, hit 750+ with 2x SS mag fields, 615 from the guns. But I use a RCU and 5x ions as well instead of the PDU. Maxed out here as well, gallente drone spec 5 FTW I ain't eyeshadow but the 25% damage, nos, and 50% falloff are pretty nice, and so are the cap and resists. But compaired to the other HACs the improvement is pretty minimal really. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.01.25 14:50:00 - [250] Originally by: Kurenin You cannot fit a plate, mwd, and decent guns to ANY HAC. This is totally besides the point that plates are incredibly imbalanced. I didnt read this thread as I was bored after about 5 posts. But...here's a link for you that will solve all your MWD/Plate/Guns needs. The Eve Guild Wars Project!

Eyeshadow	Posted - 2006.01.25 15:41:00 - [251] Originally by: Gariuys Edited by: Gariuys on 25/01/2006 14:32:02 Void is pretty nice. But 800 seems a bit low, hit 750+ with 2x SS mag fields, 615 from the guns. But I use a RCU and 5x ions as well instead of the PDU. Maxed out here as well, gallente drone spec 5 FTW I ain't eyeshadow but the 25% damage, nos, and 50% falloff are pretty nice, and so are the cap and resists. But compaired to the other HACs the improvement is pretty minimal really. Yes but do you have a medium NOS and the extra cap/recharge etc from a PDU? I could swop my 3 dmg mods to 3 SS and check the dmg output but i cba to go get em off my blasterthron As for Rax v Deimos the Deimos will win everytime now. The rax's only advantage, its drone bay, is now the same. The extra resists, second dmg bonus and falloff bonus, not to mention extra armor etc, just make it so much better than a rax at the close range blaster game (that is if you can get them easily like i can). Price is the only real problem My Latest Vid (16/11/05)
Gariuys	Posted - 2006.01.25 15:55:00 - [252] Originally by: Eyeshadow Originally by: Gariuys Edited by: Gariuys on 25/01/2006 14:32:02 Void is pretty nice. But 800 seems a bit low, hit 750+ with 2x SS mag fields, 615 from the guns. But I use a RCU and 5x ions as well instead of the PDU. Maxed out here as well, gallente drone spec 5 FTW I ain't eyeshadow but the 25% damage, nos, and 50% falloff are pretty nice, and so are the cap and resists. But compaired to the other HACs the improvement is pretty minimal really. Yes but do you have a medium NOS and the extra cap/recharge etc from a PDU? I could swop my 3 dmg mods to 3 SS and check the dmg output but i cba to go get em off my blasterthron As for Rax v Deimos the Deimos will win everytime now. The rax's only advantage, its drone bay, is now the same. The extra resists, second dmg bonus and falloff bonus, not to mention extra armor etc, just make it so much better than a rax at the close range blaster game (that is if you can get them easily like i can). Price is the only real problem Got the med nos, but yeah sacrifice the cap from the pdu for all ions, love those ions, used to run same as you but the greater range flexibility of the ions won me over. That's why they should fit without a RCU CCP... fix now!! ;) ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.01.26 13:03:00 - [253] I've tried similar setups to the above with mixed T1 and T2 gear, but the sheer lack of fitting and my tight wallet meant that it wasn't overly flexible. You shouldn't require faction equipment to fit a mixture of Electrons and Ions to a Deimos. If someone has decent skills and straps into one, their blaster setup should be dictated by what they want to do, not what the ship restricts them from doing. The Firing Range
Ange1	Posted - 2006.01.26 13:22:00 - [254] Edited by: Ange1 on 26/01/2006 13:26:19 This is the current setup (or at least last setup until we engaged in a skirmish against mom 'n' pop) I run: 4x Heavy Ion Blaster II's 1x Heavy Electron II 1x Improved Cloak II 1x MWD II 1x 20km Disruptor 1x 14km Webber 1x Centum A-Type Rep 1x 400mm Plate 1x Faction 55% Exp Hardener or Officer Nano Hardener, depending on my mood 1x Serpentis Mag Stab 2x Cap Relays 5x Valkyrie II's I think I have something like 0.5 PG and 10 CPU left. ======================= The Establishment is at your service...
Nival	Posted - 2006.01.26 14:33:00 - [255] How can you justify asking for Deimos boost when Muninn runs into exactly the same issues. Either boost all the tier2 HACs (with possible exception of Sacriledge, which is already getting fixed) or leave them alone.
LUKEC	Posted - 2006.01.26 14:44:00 - [256] Edited by: LUKEC on 26/01/2006 14:44:09 Originally by: Nival How can you justify asking for Deimos boost when Muninn runs into exactly the same issues. Either boost all the tier2 HACs (with possible exception of Sacriledge, which is already getting fixed) or leave them alone. Well not entirely true... munin performs excellent in sniping role. Deimos suck in its role, however. Oh and i've seen how AC munin with 2x wcs fitted wiped floor with deimos that didn't have wcs. I use no guns... i smack to death.
Bazman	Posted - 2006.01.26 14:45:00 - [257] Originally by: Nival How can you justify asking for Deimos boost when Muninn runs into exactly the same issues. Either boost all the tier2 HACs (with possible exception of Sacriledge, which is already getting fixed) or leave them alone. Not much wrong with the Munnin, could use some help to fit 720's easier, but its a frikken pocket battleship, volleying people for stupendous damage ----- Hi TomB! All out Do or Die Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks.
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2006.01.26 14:52:00 - [258] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 26/01/2006 14:54:11 Originally by: Bazman Not much wrong with the Munnin, could use some help to fit 720's easier, but its a frikken pocket battleship, volleying people for stupendous damage He's right though, you cannot fit 5 650mm t2 2 assault launcher and a med rep on a muninn, without power mod, and with maxed skills. You can however fit 5 250mm t2 and a med rep on a deimos without powermod. The dps of the raildeimos will be higher than the dps of the artillery muninn too. Only things muninn gets is a higher alpha strike, some more flexbility in damage types, slightly better shield resists (though worse armor resists which is what matter anyway). There's the math for it in another thread. Edit: I do not mean to hijack this thread, sorry for this. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. ---
LUKEC	Posted - 2006.01.26 14:59:00 - [259] yes, but u can pvp with arty munin solo quite nice... Afs die b4 you get to F5 :) I use no guns... i smack to death.
LWMaverick	Posted - 2006.01.26 15:02:00 - [260] /Signed.. it needs a fix. With great power, comes great responsibility.

KilROCK	Posted - 2006.01.26 15:06:00 - [261] Originally by: LUKEC yes, but u can pvp with arty munin solo quite nice... Afs die b4 you get to F5 :) We don't shoot the same afs Hail Ammo - Remove Speed penality!
LUKEC	Posted - 2006.01.26 15:15:00 - [262] Originally by: KilROCK Originally by: LUKEC yes, but u can pvp with arty munin solo quite nice... Afs die b4 you get to F5 :) We don't shoot the same afs i dont use minmater ship, but i know what iu've seen I use no guns... i smack to death.
Gariuys	Posted - 2006.01.26 15:18:00 - [263] Edited by: Gariuys on 26/01/2006 15:21:14 Originally by: Nival How can you justify asking for Deimos boost when Muninn runs into exactly the same issues. Either boost all the tier2 HACs (with possible exception of Sacriledge, which is already getting fixed) or leave them alone. lol AC muninn destroys deimoses so fast it's sick. And you SHIELD tank a arti munnin, with pdu/rcu in the lows and things look a lot better. And setup like that it makes a awesome long ranger as well. And yes that means no speed mods in arti mode, big deal. ( been ages, but 1x rcu, 1x pdu, 1x co-pro, 2x gyro IIRC, with kin hardner large shield booster and amplifier in meds, should fit IIRC ) ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.01.26 15:21:00 - [264] Edited by: KilROCK on 26/01/2006 15:22:57 Originally by: Gariuys Originally by: Nival How can you justify asking for Deimos boost when Muninn runs into exactly the same issues. Either boost all the tier2 HACs (with possible exception of Sacriledge, which is already getting fixed) or leave them alone. lol AC muninn destroys deimoses so fast it's sick. You've fought one? I know the way you fit your deimos, you'd go thru my armor at the speed of light and i couldn't repair fast enough. We'd both be in structure and you'd probably die tho, due to having less armor. But your sheer damage is A L O T higher. Same with my GankaBond, A ion damage fitted deimos will go thru my shield like butter, and i'll be in deep armor when it dies, If not in structure. Hail Ammo - Remove Speed penality!
Gariuys	Posted - 2006.01.26 15:24:00 - [265] Originally by: KilROCK Originally by: Gariuys Originally by: Nival How can you justify asking for Deimos boost when Muninn runs into exactly the same issues. Either boost all the tier2 HACs (with possible exception of Sacriledge, which is already getting fixed) or leave them alone. lol AC muninn destroys deimoses so fast it's sick. You've fought one? I know the way you fit your deimos, you'd go thru my armor at the speed of light and i couldn't repair fast enough. We'd both be in structure and you'd probably die tho, due to having less armor. But your sheer damage is A L O T higher. Flown against, and flown as. Sheer damage is actually pretty close as well not in dps, but in dps you can project on target, munnin hits sooner into the fight, unless you land right on top of each other and even then munnin wins. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.01.26 15:27:00 - [266] Well, With Barrage, My AC muninn kicks pretty much anything around 1-15km. Same could be said of your deimos with Null M ... Hail Ammo - Remove Speed penality!
Nival	Posted - 2006.01.26 23:13:00 - [267] Originally by: Gariuys lol AC muninn destroys deimoses so fast it's sick. And you SHIELD tank a arti munnin, with pdu/rcu in the lows and things look a lot better. And setup like that it makes a awesome long ranger as well. And yes that means no speed mods in arti mode, big deal. ( been ages, but 1x rcu, 1x pdu, 1x co-pro, 2x gyro IIRC, with kin hardner large shield booster and amplifier in meds, should fit IIRC ) Ah here you are, recommending a setup with three (thats 3) fitting mods and in the same breath requesting a boost for Deimos so it would be able to fit weapons + speed + tank without a _single_ fitting mod? And people go on about Deimos being unable to perform the "role it was meant to" and still recommend an AC Muninn when it is clear it's a howitzer platform just as much as Deimos is a blaster platform? Sorry, but then I can use same arguments and tell you to fit a railgun Deimos like Naugty Boy suggested, I'm sure you would all like that... Anyway, I'm not saying Deimons doesn't need a boost, I'm sure it would be a much more enjoyable ship to fly if it got one. But I am tired of this selfishness and only seeking to get what you fly boosted. Try to get a broader picture in consideration and realize that there are other ships with exactly the same problems. So if theres to be a fix/boost, it should affect everyone not the ship that majority of population flies.
Commander Nikolas	Posted - 2006.01.29 12:02:00 - [268] How long have blasterboats been serioulsy underpowered and hard to fit? Supposedly blasters are the most damaging weapon in game... at least the description says so... lol, if you look at the DPS charts supposedly a thron/dem should be able to eat a raven alive up close (according to CCP). BRB need to change skills... Caldari Cruiser lvl 4 just completed
Kaeten	Posted - 2006.01.29 12:05:00 - [269] Originally by: Commander Nikolas lol, if you look at the DPS charts supposedly a thron/dem should be able to eat a raven alive up close (according to CCP). They Should but they don't do they Latest Movie: RKK - Meatshield
Ante	Posted - 2006.01.29 12:31:00 - [270] As a radical suggestion, what if the Deimos received some extra grid (for arguments sake around 200), received a new mid slot but lost a low slot? I realise it changes the ship a lot but it might be a welcome change.

Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.01.29 16:54:00 - [271] I think the slot-layout on the Deimos is perfectly fine. One more high, one more low. Other than that she's the same as the Thorax - born and bred blasters. Well, she's supposed to be! As for those saying Deimos pilots are selfish - how are we supposed to argue the case of ships we don't fly? If I fly a Deimos and think she needs some adjustment I have every right to say so. If you fly a Muninn (something that my skills will never take me towards) then you have every right to raise a topic concerning her. The Firing Range
danneh	Posted - 2006.01.29 16:57:00 - [272] 150 more powergrid.
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.01.29 17:05:00 - [273] She needs more CPU as well, perhaps 30 units or so. The Firing Range
Asurix	Posted - 2006.01.29 17:08:00 - [274] Originally by: Ante As a radical suggestion, what if the Deimos received some extra grid (for arguments sake around 200), received a new mid slot but lost a low slot? I realise it changes the ship a lot but it might be a welcome change. slots is fine, 150 more grid ftw and +20m/s
Kai Lae	Posted - 2006.01.29 19:52:00 - [275] The deimos's problem is that it's grid is too low to support even the smallest medium weapons with anything that would be considered a standard setup; for instance: 5x electron II, M Nos II 10mn MWD II, web, med cap booster MAR II, 3x energized adaptive II, 2x MFS II That won't fit w/ AWU 4 because you don't have enough grid. Nothing about this setup is uber or unusual, but it won't fit - what does that tell you?
Asurix	Posted - 2006.01.29 20:08:00 - [276] change one of those MFS II's to a PDU II and u can do that setup with ions =)
Kai Lae	Posted - 2006.01.29 20:13:00 - [277] Not my point, the point is the grid is too low to support even the smallest medium weapons without a grid module.
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.01.29 20:35:00 - [278] Exactly. The difference between the Thorax and Deimos in fitting requirements is miniscule compared with the other HACs and their T1 counter-parts. 30 CPU and 40 Powergrid. Think about it - that's for a high-slot weapon module and a low-slot module. She is limited almost exclusively to Electron setups or Electron/Ion/Power Unit setups if she wants to have a MAR II, M Nosferatu and a MWD (she'd built for these remember) fitted at the same time. It's absurd. Secondly, she's only one of two HACs that are slower than their T1 counterpart. The Cerberus is 2ms slower than a Caracal, but the Deimos is a whopping 10ms slower than a Thorax. This is a ship designed to get in close as fast as it can to score hits with her low-range, high-damage guns. It makes no sense to make her slower and limited to low-end blasters when she's a Tech 2 ship - a supposed specialist in her field. I still believe she wasn't given the attention she needed due to her undoubtedly being the initial favourite HAC, hence the glossy paint job and custom engine trail. The Firing Range
ChalSto	Posted - 2006.02.26 21:55:00 - [279] the problem isn¦t the deimos.........it is her pimery weapons........the BLASTERS! DPS is superp.......tank is absolutly crap...even with THE WORST BLASTERS TO FIT!!!!!! BLASTERS need a fix ......YESTERDAY CCP!!!!!!!!!!! The problem is known VERY LONG now........
HUGO DRAX	Posted - 2006.02.26 23:38:00 - [280] IF the deimos is so bad why is is more expensive than the Ishtar? Dont just complain, do something. Channel macrointel meet with likeminded folks, spottings,intel

ThunderGodThor	Posted - 2006.02.27 00:00:00 - [281] Originally by: HUGO DRAX IF the deimos is so bad why is is more expensive than the Ishtar? Thats cause the supply on them hasnt come up from all the back orders. That and after the RMR patch changing the tanking made all this problems come out.
CptEagle	Posted - 2006.02.27 00:14:00 - [282] Signed. Originally by: HUGO DRAX IF the deimos is so bad why is is more expensive than the Ishtar? Its a very cool ship. But you can't fit it decently so it pops, so price goes up. FatBalls > CCP just checked their logs and no lag ever came from EvE
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.05 11:21:00 - [283] Original Post has been edited and updated. Please take the time to read it through. Save The Deimos
Bazman	Posted - 2006.03.05 11:33:00 - [284] Only 10 pages so far, 6 more are needed before a dev reads it :P TBH, what would make me the happiest person ever, would be if they gave it a little more grid, and remodelled the Heavy Ion Blaster II's so that they looked like a Med Gun version of the Ion Blaster Cannon II's. Those turrets and firing animations are absolutely badass on the Ion Cannons, if they were like that on the Deimos, i would never fly another ship again. Ever :P ----- Hi TomB! All out Do or Die Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks.
Spartan239	Posted - 2006.03.05 11:56:00 - [285] just out of curiosity, excluding those funny eagle setups what other cruiser is meant to fit heavy neutrons ii's?
twit brent	Posted - 2006.03.05 13:45:00 - [286] Given up on my deioms, Istar 4tw!
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.05 17:39:00 - [287] Originally by: Spartan239 just out of curiosity, excluding those funny eagle setups what other cruiser is meant to fit heavy neutrons ii's? The only other HACs with a Medium Hybrid bonus are the Deimos and the Ishtar. Given their fitting screen, good luck with both. One of the statements often put forward in this topic is: "I can fit Ion Blasters to my Deimos fine, just put a Small Nosferatu in the high-slots... They have a point, but it's also entirely the point. In order to fit the medium-range blaster people have to make large sacrifices due to fitting. Now, using my rather impressive drawing skills I shall demonstrate what I mean: Deimos Now: [ELECTRONS]----><----[IONS]---------[NEUTRONS] *Deimos How It Should* Be: [ELECTRONS]--------->[IONS]<---------[NEUTRONS] Basically the Deimos is stuck between Electrons and Ions. Electrons if you want to have a decent setup elsewhere, Ions if you want decent damage albeit with sacrifices. Ideally, the Deimos should be able to do the following: Electrons - It should be able to use low-end Blasters and a decent tank, perhaps not with a 1600mm plate (bad idea with current agility anyway) but certainly a 800mm plate. I can use Focused Medium Pulse IIs, a monstrous tank and an AB/MWD on my Zealot - why not the Deimos? Ions - Decent damage with a decent tank (MARP II with 1/2 hardeners), MWD and Medium Nos with no power modifications needed. Potentially the most popular since it gives you the damage you need after the approach, and allows you to hit near the webbing threshold. Neutrons** - Currently impossible due to fitting, you should be able to use her like a Megathron (that said, the Megathron is a T1 ship whilst the Deimos is T2). Maximum damage, light tank or plated and perhaps an AB or MWD. Could be used with Covert Ops. The Deimos essentially needs more flexibility, and her one-trick needs to pay off. Save The Deimos
EL TITAN	Posted - 2006.03.05 18:43:00 - [288] diemos is fine just the way it is. alot of ships have grid problems not just the diemos, deal with it ;o _________________________________________________ <3 hi
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.05 18:59:00 - [289] Originally by: EL TITAN diemos is fine just the way it is. alot of ships have grid problems not just the diemos, deal with it ;o It's all relative. Did you read the original post? Did you notice that the Deimos has a 3.6% Power Grid boost over the Thorax - the lowest of any HAC bar the Ishtar, or that compared with other T2 blaster ships like the Astarte she is criminally underpowered? I fly my ship, you fly yours. I have a right to champion a cause to have her fixed. Save The Deimos
Miklas Laces	Posted - 2006.03.06 15:44:00 - [290] Speed: Deimos: 170, Zaelot: 215, Cerberus: 185 Radius: Deimos: 160, Zealot: 125, Cerberus: 135 Power upgrade from T1 Thorax (820) -> Deimos (860) = +40 powergrid Omen (730) -> Zealot (1090) = +360 powergrid Caracal (530) -> Cerberus (635) = +105 powergrid Med Nos: With standard setups all above mentioned hacs can fit a Med Nos without problems. Deimos have to either fit a small Nos or waste a low slot on a RCU. pros: - most damaging of all - better tracking than Zealot - can use mwd with no cap penalty cons: - lowest speed of all - bigger radius of all - only hac that can't fit a med nos - most cap hungry of all - lowest range of all - difficult to fit rep+ions+mwd Personally I think that Deimos as it is now it's not that bad, it just need some more powergrid to be in line with other hacs.

Lartfor	Posted - 2006.03.06 16:51:00 - [291] I find it rather strange that the ships designed to field the closest range weapons in the game are far less agile and more sluggish than their counterparts. I think the Deimos needs a sig reduction to about 140, a mass reduction to about 11k, and a speed increase to around 190 m/s. The only thing to be carefull about when rebalancing the ship is the powergrid increase. If the blaster rework does infact decrease the powergrid rq on blasters maybee that will solve the problem in itself (be good to use Tomb). Yes the Deimos is capable of higher dps than many of the other Hacs but you have to understand that this comes at great costs and in my minds eye the risk is not worth the reward atm. People are better off flying the Ishtar in almost every situation this needs to change.
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.06 18:05:00 - [292] Thanks for the numbers guys, I think they add weight to the argument. What has been mentioned is pretty much the crux of it: the Deimos does high damage, but this damage can only be used under five kilometres with Electrons. Granted she has an MWD capacitor bonus, but that doesn't exclude the fact that she is the slowest, least agile and most signature heavy of all the HACs - a triple blow against a blaster boat. Tactically and balance-wise it makes no sense, especially considering my Zealot with a 1600mm plate is still faster and more agile than my Deimos without one. Let's make the juice worth the squeeze. Save The Deimos
Zysco	Posted - 2006.03.06 18:21:00 - [293] Originally by: Dash Ripcock Let's make the juice worth the squeeze. Girl next door quote? callon > I don't like traveling much, i think its cause my father used to beat me with a globe. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=300438New vid: "we're back
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.06 18:24:00 - [294] Originally by: Zysco Originally by: Dash Ripcock Let's make the juice worth the squeeze. Girl next door quote? Just a general quote, but yes - it has been used in that film! Ahem, stay on topic Save The Deimos
Techyon	Posted - 2006.03.06 18:26:00 - [295] Nothing to add to Dash's campaign to get the deimos fixed.. except that I support it fully, he's spot on. ------
Crellion	Posted - 2006.03.06 18:55:00 - [296] Edited by: Crellion on 06/03/2006 18:55:25 OP signed Look also at what Lartfor is saying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is the very essence of the problem. Range should be: blasters > pulses > autocannons or speed / agility should be Deimos > Zealot > vagabond. The current system is silly and suicidal. Slowest boat with clumsiest guns? why? The mwd bonus does not compensate... (due to blasters cap usage)
MellaRinn	Posted - 2006.03.06 20:58:00 - [297] OP signed! I was a bit scared when I saw my friend's Deimos the first time and looked at its fitting stats... I hope blasters overhaul will solve many problems :) += --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Kuro Hayashi	Posted - 2006.03.07 19:40:00 - [298] Out of curiosity... Is there some sort of proposed blaster overhaul in the works? Or just the raving of lunatics? A practicioner of Unsensical thought.
Lando PimpRissian	Posted - 2006.03.07 19:59:00 - [299] Now that I can fly a Deimos I must say that if nothing else is done to it then at the least it can get a speed boost or at least acceleration boost. Acceleration is being overlooked I think in comparison to top speed. If they could reduce the mass and increase the acceleration, I think it would be OK.
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.07 20:20:00 - [300] Originally by: Kuro Hayashi Out of curiosity... Is there some sort of proposed blaster overhaul in the works? Or just the raving of lunatics? It's been mentioned by TomB, but no numbers or anything concrete yet and it might just effect large blasters. Save The Deimos

HUGO DRAX	Posted - 2006.03.07 21:01:00 - [301] The striking thing I notice about the Deimos is how laggard if feels vs the thorax. I dont like that one bit, why gimp the Deimos in that way actually making it worse than the T1 Thorax. Dont just complain, do something. Channel macrointel meet with likeminded folks, spottings,intel
Max Hardcase	Posted - 2006.03.07 21:24:00 - [302] Fly vigilant, its cheaperthan a deimos it gets : - fixed 25% damage bonus - better cap giving bonus with MWD; 10%/lvl - tracking bonus ;5%/lvl - better agility than thorax - 4th medium slot - free 600 extra armor. ---------------------------------------------- Max Hardcase > yawn-o-rama Max Hardcase > is this typical of RA warfare ? FreaKsh0 > yes boredom fitted in all their high slots
Kunming	Posted - 2006.03.07 22:16:00 - [303] I think the arguements are crystal clear so fix the ship pls.. A blaster ship is a close combat fighter, it needs to have all the armor, agility and speed it can get to survive, yet the deimos has none, and not even enough PG to compensate this. Website Kaos Empire Killboard
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.08 10:56:00 - [304] Originally by: HUGO DRAX The striking thing I notice about the Deimos is how laggard if feels vs the thorax. I dont like that one bit, why gimp the Deimos in that way actually making it worse than the T1 Thorax. Yup, I have been flying my Thorax with a 1600mm plate recently and she's fast and just as nimble. It just makes getting into blaster range a chore rather than what it should be - exciting. Save The Deimos
madaluap	Posted - 2006.03.08 11:18:00 - [305] Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: HUGO DRAX The striking thing I notice about the Deimos is how laggard if feels vs the thorax. I dont like that one bit, why gimp the Deimos in that way actually making it worse than the T1 Thorax. Yup, I have been flying my Thorax with a 1600mm plate recently and she's fast and just as nimble. It just makes getting into blaster range a chore rather than what it should be - exciting. lol ill whope that thorax ass anyday small guns dont cut it anymore, electron 2 and ion 2 do ^^ _________________________________________________
LUKEC	Posted - 2006.03.08 11:22:00 - [306] atm, deimos is no better than thorax, except when it comes to killing thorax... Apart from that, everything that deimos does, can be done with thorax for like 10% of the price. Originally by: Commander Nikolas People like Lukec are the problem and they know it. Shin Ra's Raven has 4x WCS, Lukec's Dominix has 5x WCS & Ishtar has 2x WCS. Antipiracy is causing brain damage
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.08 11:46:00 - [307] Edited by: Dash Ripcock on 08/03/2006 11:46:20 Originally by: madaluap Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: HUGO DRAX The striking thing I notice about the Deimos is how laggard if feels vs the thorax. I dont like that one bit, why gimp the Deimos in that way actually making it worse than the T1 Thorax. Yup, I have been flying my Thorax with a 1600mm plate recently and she's fast and just as nimble. It just makes getting into blaster range a chore rather than what it should be - exciting. lol ill whope that thorax ass anyday small guns dont cut it anymore, electron 2 and ion 2 do ^^ Two words: Frigate Killer. Save The Deimos
HUGO DRAX	Posted - 2006.03.08 16:59:00 - [308] Just give me the agility boost, maybe 30% over the rax and a smaller sig radius [10% less]. I Will be happy with just that. Dont just complain, do something. Channel macrointel meet with likeminded folks, spottings,intel
Zembla	Posted - 2006.03.08 22:04:00 - [309] Shameless bump. It's about time the Deimos got some extra grid, 'n maybe a tad more CPU for those two additional slots. That's without mentioning the gimped agility & speed. <Z> Spread the Z
Yarek Balear	Posted - 2006.03.08 22:21:00 - [310] /signed...

Harper04	Posted - 2006.03.09 20:39:00 - [311] 150 more grid, a tad bit more cpu (I run faction mods on my pvp setup cause that's the only way to have enough to run a halfway decent fitting without cpu issues), and at least the same base speed as the thorax pls. This is the gallente blasterboat, it should be able to rip apart short range ships and eat them for breakfast at it's optimal...and I'm not even gonna talk about the cap issues...
Beowulf Scheafer	Posted - 2006.03.09 21:06:00 - [312] Originally by: Chronus26 Edited by: Chronus26 on 01/12/2005 14:49:37 I was shocked when I came to try and invent a fitting for a Deimos in ship fitter, with my skills, which aren't poor but admittendly not top notch either, I could't fill all of the slots. Ther just wasn't enough Grid and CPU to get the job done. I understand that you shouldn't be able to fit every ship in the game with whatever the hell you want, but shouldn't what is supposed to be THE ultimate blaster ship be able to fit at least a full rack of Ion blasters? and a simple tank of an EXP hardner and a repairer... And you also pretty much NEED a MWD. I agree with what Dash says, along with comments other have added, the Deimos could do with a little adjustment, CPU and Grid wise at the least. Nobody's calling into question the damage the Deimos can put out, what is being questioned however is the Deimos' ability to use this high damage output effectivly in combat. EDIT: Spelling correction, my appologies.. i have topskills, nearly everything that afflicts it on 5. the deimos is one hell of a ***** to fit. and for that reason one of the weakest HAC's ingame. if i have the wtfpwnbbq dmgdealer i have ions and then my cpu gets low really fast. even with electronblasters ( and comparabily weak damge) i have to use shadow serpentis gear to fit something you might want to name tank in there. it looks pretty well, and as long as you have ecm support its a great ship and dmgdealer no. 1. on your own you are hack to maybe all other HAC's ( if their pilot is able to fit them). http://www.wonderlands.org/file/test1.jpg
Mark Collins	Posted - 2006.03.09 23:05:00 - [313] Just a bit of info... happened last night: One Deimos vs One Dominix, One Brutix, One Thorax... 60sec later Rax is running and two pods are warping away from the Deimos... granted our skills are not up to speed (and I now believe you need to be READY to fly a BS or BC into 0.3 space) but he was dealing some scary damage (saw on the obituary for my Brutix that it was with HEAVY ION T2...) respect the Deimos - I do from now on...
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2006.03.09 23:15:00 - [314] Originally by: Mark Collins granted our skills are not up to speed This is hardly an arguement to change the ship
Harper04	Posted - 2006.03.09 23:16:00 - [315] Originally by: Mark Collins Just a bit of info... happened last night: One Deimos vs One Dominix, One Brutix, One Thorax... 60sec later Rax is running and two pods are warping away from the Deimos... granted our skills are not up to speed (and I now believe you need to be READY to fly a BS or BC into 0.3 space) but he was dealing some scary damage (saw on the obituary for my Brutix that it was with HEAVY ION T2...) respect the Deimos - I do from now on... Yes...I'm guessing you were in the group with the domi, brutix, and rax. Deimos is a nice ship, but you guys shoulda pwnt him . Next time tell the domi to carry at least 2 large nos, and invite the deimos back . I use t2 ions, and there's no way even the rax should die before the deimos will against those 3 ships.
Manyara	Posted - 2006.03.10 01:26:00 - [316] Sorry guys but I have to disagree with this whole thread. A deimos kicks the tish out of a thorax any day of the week for one simple reason: damage. Train your skills for a deimos and you can knock the stuffing out of a bs with ease (I know, I've done it). I dont care what you put on your rax. My deimos will take it to bits. Granted the rax is cheaper, but the omen is cheaper than the zealot, you dont hear ppl complaining about that. With regard to the plate debate, you can fit ions and no plate, or electrons and a plate. Or if you're clever/rich/both, ions and a smaller plate. Deimos > rax. Simple. Want drones? fly a vexor or an ishtar. Or even a domi. Turret damage more your bag? rax and deimos are your friends. My thoughts are simply this: Stop whining. The deimos is uber. The player flying it might not be. The only win button in game atm is the titan, and the only ppl that have a titan are ASCN. Can't wait for the whinefest that starts when they unleash it... ---------------- How would you like your ass?
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.10 02:11:00 - [317] Originally by: Manyara Sorry guys but I have to disagree with this whole thread. A deimos kicks the tish out of a thorax any day of the week for one simple reason: damage. Train your skills for a deimos and you can knock the stuffing out of a bs with ease (I know, I've done it). I dont care what you put on your rax. My deimos will take it to bits. Granted the rax is cheaper, but the omen is cheaper than the zealot, you dont hear ppl complaining about that. With regard to the plate debate, you can fit ions and no plate, or electrons and a plate. Or if you're clever/rich/both, ions and a smaller plate. Deimos > rax. Simple. Want drones? fly a vexor or an ishtar. Or even a domi. Turret damage more your bag? rax and deimos are your friends. My thoughts are simply this: Stop whining. The deimos is uber. The player flying it might not be. The only win button in game atm is the titan, and the only ppl that have a titan are ASCN. Can't wait for the whinefest that starts when they unleash it... You disagree with the whole thread, or just the posts immediately above? Please read the original post to see why the Deimos at the moment simply doesn't live up to her potential. Yes of course she can kill ships, but you can kill anything in anything. This thread is about redressing the Deimos so she is in-line with the other blaster ships, and to finally make her able to field Ion blasters and get into range as quickly as she should. You mention you can fit Ions and no plate. The entire point is you can't fit Ions at all without losing a slot to a frigate module or power module. This does not make sense, not in a Tech 2 blaster boat. I bought my Deimos about 15 months ago. I can count the number of times I have picked it over my other HACs on one hand. Save The Deimos
Kin'Tarr	Posted - 2006.03.10 02:36:00 - [318] Just got hold of a deimos the other day, decided to fit it out and test it vs a corp mate in a zealot. Firstly - lack of pg/cpu, almost identical setup as my vigilant/thorax. Secondly the mass/agility of the ship is abysmal to say the least and this is my major concern. Dueling my corp mates zealot was just too funny, at one point i had a little run up, mwd on going max speed (1400-1500 m/s) and as soon as i hit the zealots web range (10km/90%) my inertia just barely carries me 4km putting me 6km from the target who is also webbed and moving away from me (he was using a 10mn Ab), thus my blasters having sod all effect. I understand that its best to start most deimos fights up close but that situation clearly shows the ship is too heavy and slow to function as a get in close from distance using mwd (ship bonus) and kill. I have no problem with webbers btw
Toshiro Khan	Posted - 2006.03.10 02:41:00 - [319] Originally by: Manyara Sorry guys but I have to disagree with this whole thread. A deimos kicks the tish out of a thorax any day of the week for one simple reason: damage. Train your skills for a deimos and you can knock the stuffing out of a bs with ease (I know, I've done it). I dont care what you put on your rax. My deimos will take it to bits. Granted the rax is cheaper, but the omen is cheaper than the zealot, you dont hear ppl complaining about that. With regard to the plate debate, you can fit ions and no plate, or electrons and a plate. Or if you're clever/rich/both, ions and a smaller plate. Deimos > rax. Simple. Want drones? fly a vexor or an ishtar. Or even a domi. Turret damage more your bag? rax and deimos are your friends. My thoughts are simply this: Stop whining. The deimos is uber. The player flying it might not be. The only win button in game atm is the titan, and the only ppl that have a titan are ASCN. Can't wait for the whinefest that starts when they unleash it... I find it interesting that you disagree with the 'whole' thread... being as when it started you still had the heavy drone, 1600 plate rax as the major flavor of the month that could tear a deimos a new one. This leads me to belive you didn't read the whole thread, and that you don't grasp the concept that the deimos is an over rated gimped ship that fails to live upto the idea its supposed to be the ultimate close range cruiser. also the reason people don't complain about the zealot is that it does live upto its promise, and then some, it has a great damage output plus it can field a massive tank at the same time and is still faster then a deimos with a heavy tank.. the deimos can't it can either fit for damage.. or it can fit some gimped tank that kills off its damage output and for a close range ship is slow and about as agile as a hamster thats been nailed to its wheel. And since when did ASCN have a titan? (and their not an I-win button judging by the ones that was killed on the test server. )
Sadist	Posted - 2006.03.10 05:31:00 - [320] /signed. I've made numerous posts about this outrageous imbalance, but so far they have fallen on deaf ears. Un-nerf deimos now, CCP. +140 PG plz, kthx. --------------- VIP member of the [23] Quote: - Numbers alone do not win a battle - No, but I bet they help.

Miklas Laces	Posted - 2006.03.13 16:12:00 - [321] IMO: a little more powergrid (+50) small reduction in radius (-15) would be cool and balanced
Harper04	Posted - 2006.03.13 18:53:00 - [322] Anyone who thinks the deimos is fine doesn't know what they're talking about IMHO...the only way to get a comparable setup to say, a zealot, is to use faction mods at 2-3x the price. Yes, I would know, the last zealot I killed was completely t2 fitted, pulses, plate, heatsinks...the works. If it wasn't for the fact that my setup I was using was worth well over a bil, he woulda bbq'd me. And that's with me landing 11km from him! Right now, to use a deimos effectively you gotta have the great skills and a fat wallet...much more so than other HAC's it seems .
Chuu Mei	Posted - 2006.03.13 19:04:00 - [323] Originally by: HUGO DRAX Just give me the agility boost, maybe 30% over the rax and a smaller sig radius [10% less]. I Will be happy with just that. Indeed, increase agility/acceleration and that is all that she needs, honestly.
Crellion	Posted - 2006.03.13 19:29:00 - [324] Originally by: Chuu Mei Originally by: HUGO DRAX Just give me the agility boost, maybe 30% over the rax and a smaller sig radius [10% less]. I Will be happy with just that. Indeed, increase agility/acceleration and that is all that she needs, honestly. Obvious really ... blasterboats deal the most dmg at point blank range and negligible dmg if kept at distance... obviously they would have been made the fastest ships (not in top speed pf course but in agility more than anything) of their respective classes... Making the mattari fastest and giving them more range (despite their less dps) makes no sense. There is a basic flawed design... which devs attempt to redress with the mwd bonus. Unfortunately the recent buffs to tank mean that mwd kills you anyway. Even if at lvl 5% you had 0% cap penalty it would still not be enough... The issue is NOT the cap penalty but the cap usage from the mwd that will invariably kill the tanking ability of the Deimos ... Add to that the cap usage of blasters and the FITTING REQS of mwd (-v- AB or sensor booster II that other HACs put there) and you have the whole issue there ... The solutions could be: (1) Giving grid and cpu to Deimos: I dont like it because it would enable abusive set ups. (2) Increase drone bay so that it packs 5 heavies (with no bonuses oc) giving it the advantage the rax had pre RMR... I dont like it either... smells of uber... (3) Substantially decrease the mass-agility of the Deimos (30-40%)... It will still have same base speed so Vaga is still much faster but Deimos comes close behind. Thats the correct approach. It will allow quick approach (ergo no reason to complain for the lack of tank) and commando ops. [atm you can warp Cerb Eagle Munnin Ishtar Zealot Sacri at range against heavy enemies or against a BS stay out of scram range and run if needed. Vaga can go in close and still run if needed as it is faster webbed than an AB BS for example. Deimos is ******. It has to kill everything if it engages or it will die. For a ship selling at 170 mill this is idiocy. Making it faster, will enable hit and run (slower than Vaga but more powerful) for Deimos and thus make it a much more viable ship in competitive pvp.]
Harper04	Posted - 2006.03.13 19:33:00 - [325] Originally by: Chuu Mei Originally by: HUGO DRAX Just give me the agility boost, maybe 30% over the rax and a smaller sig radius [10% less]. I Will be happy with just that. Indeed, increase agility/acceleration and that is all that she needs, honestly. Please go mwd just 10-15km, shoot at something, while running even an extremely gimped tank, and watch your cap. After you have done this come back and say that again kthx?
Harper04	Posted - 2006.03.13 19:44:00 - [326] If you're gonna talk about cap, realize that it's the tank and running the blasters non-stop that are what REALLY hurt you. A good deimos pilot will rarely mwd very far unless it's completely necessary (or against an easy kill) anyways, cause your tank will fail as you hit your target..before you even do that uber dps.
Kaeten	Posted - 2006.03.13 19:54:00 - [327] I'm glad dash is fighting as the deimos does really suck atm. ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=259621
Asurix	Posted - 2006.03.13 20:08:00 - [328] Deimos better get some love! More cap, more CPU, more grid, more speed, everything, it's so cool to fly yet it sux so badly =) and ASCN doesn't have a titan, whoever told you that should be killed, along with his brother
Chuu Mei	Posted - 2006.03.13 20:14:00 - [329] Is it just me, or would anyone else rather take out a Blaster Brutix than a Deimos Blaster boat? I mean damn, the Brutix isn't that far behind in speed and maneuvarability and there is something seriously wrong with that. Plus, you can pack 7 ions, mwd, ew mods and a descent tank without stairing at your fitting screen for like an hour trying to make things fit. Brutix > Deimos atm.
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.13 20:16:00 - [330] Originally by: Crellion Originally by: Chuu Mei Originally by: HUGO DRAX Just give me the agility boost, maybe 30% over the rax and a smaller sig radius [10% less]. I Will be happy with just that. Indeed, increase agility/acceleration and that is all that she needs, honestly. Obvious really ... blasterboats deal the most dmg at point blank range and negligible dmg if kept at distance... obviously they would have been made the fastest ships (not in top speed pf course but in agility more than anything) of their respective classes... Making the mattari fastest and giving them more range (despite their less dps) makes no sense. There is a basic flawed design... which devs attempt to redress with the mwd bonus. Unfortunately the recent buffs to tank mean that mwd kills you anyway. Even if at lvl 5% you had 0% cap penalty it would still not be enough... The issue is NOT the cap penalty but the cap usage from the mwd that will invariably kill the tanking ability of the Deimos ... Add to that the cap usage of blasters and the FITTING REQS of mwd (-v- AB or sensor booster II that other HACs put there) and you have the whole issue there ... The solutions could be: (1) Giving grid and cpu to Deimos: I dont like it because it would enable abusive set ups. (2) Increase drone bay so that it packs 5 heavies (with no bonuses oc) giving it the advantage the rax had pre RMR... I dont like it either... smells of uber... (3) Substantially decrease the mass-agility of the Deimos (30-40%)... It will still have same base speed so Vaga is still much faster but Deimos comes close behind. Thats the correct approach. It will allow quick approach (ergo no reason to complain for the lack of tank) and commando ops. [atm you can warp Cerb Eagle Munnin Ishtar Zealot Sacri at range against heavy enemies or against a BS stay out of scram range and run if needed. Vaga can go in close and still run if needed as it is faster webbed than an AB BS for example. Deimos is *****. It has to kill everything if it engages or it will die. For a ship selling at 170 mill this is idiocy. Making it faster, will enable hit and run (slower than Vaga but more powerful) for Deimos and thus make it a much more viable ship in competitive pvp.] Some strong points there. Personally, I think it's plain wrong* to have a Tech 2 blaster ship that cannot user Ion Blasters. It simply makes no sense compared with every single other blaster ship in EVE. It wouldn't take much, a bit of PG here and some CPU there. Just enough to make an Ion setup the bread and butter setup but preventing people from flying around in Neutron-fits or heavy tanks. The point concerning agility is a good one. If the Deimos were able to get to her optimal that much quicker, then the DPS she does now would certainly do the job. One example is the classic Deimos Vs Zealot engagement. As it stands, unless they start at fairly close range, the Deimos is picked apart by the Zealot simply because it can't get under its guns in time - especially if the Zealot is moving away. Considering the roles they have the Deimos should be one of the fastest HACs, not one of the most cumbersome. Granted she is nearly always fitted with an MWD, but coupled with a high signature radius, low agility and low top speed (for a MWD-fitted HAC) it doesn't really add up. The idea of blasters is risk vs reward. With a Deimos you are comitting to the fight - one-hundred percent. You're in webbing, scrambling and nosfering range. It's about time the reward was worth the price you pay. Save The Deimos

Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.13 20:23:00 - [331] Edited by: Dash Ripcock on 13/03/2006 20:26:01 Originally by: Chuu Mei Is it just me, or would anyone else rather take out a Blaster Brutix than a Deimos Blaster boat? I mean damn, the Brutix isn't that far behind in speed and maneuvarability and there is something seriously wrong with that. Plus, you can pack 7 ions, mwd, ew mods and a descent tank without stairing at your fitting screen for like an hour trying to make things fit. Brutix > Deimos atm. Agreed. Look at the Astarte comparison in my first post. She's a Tech 2 ship designed for blasters, and she is absolutely swimming in powergrid and CPU. Why should she be able to fit seven Ion Blasters, a decent tank, an MWD, a Medium Nosferatu (with six Ions) and the possibility of EW when a Deimos can't fit five Ions without losing one or more of the aforementioned modules? The Astarte should be a slightly harder-hitting, slower but extremely well tanked version of the Deimos. As it stands she is leaps and bounds ahead of the Deimos in terms of raw damage. Note I have nothing against the Astarte, she pays for her damage and defence with a lack of speed and higher signature radius. She is essentially a Brutix that specialises in blasters, and she has the specifications to match. When you compare the difference between a Brutix and an Astarte, and a Thorax and a Deimos, you really begin to see how short-changed the latter really is. Ever wondered why you see so few Deimos these days that aren't part of large gangs? Save The Deimos
Lartfor	Posted - 2006.03.13 20:29:00 - [332] Originally by: Chuu Mei Is it just me, or would anyone else rather take out a Blaster Brutix than a Deimos Blaster boat? I mean damn, the Brutix isn't that far behind in speed and maneuvarability and there is something seriously wrong with that. Plus, you can pack 7 ions, mwd, ew mods and a descent tank without stairing at your fitting screen for like an hour trying to make things fit. Brutix > Deimos atm. Brutix has the sig radius of a small Battle Ship. Almost all close range large weapons can hit you in that ship. The Deimos on the other hand can avoid some fire from those same ships. I do agree with this thread, Deimos is rather trashy atm. It needs a smaller sig radius (graphicly it is one of the smaller cruisers), greatly increased agility, and possibly a small increase in speed. Powergrid improvments also are welcome however they must go inline with the blaster changes. I think all of us would like to see some kind of official dev response about this topic. Lets work twards that and keep this thread on the first page
Chuu Mei	Posted - 2006.03.13 22:10:00 - [333] Yeah, even though the Brutix has a higher sig radius, I take the cost into consideration and right now, the Brutix's cheaper cost far outweighs the Deimos cost. Deimos is not worth taking out and losing in it's current state.
Lartfor	Posted - 2006.03.13 22:17:00 - [334] Originally by: Chuu Mei Yeah, even though the Brutix has a higher sig radius, I take the cost into consideration and right now, the Brutix's cheaper cost far outweighs the Deimos cost. Deimos is not worth taking out and losing in it's current state. Nor is any HACs cost. HACS are priced far beyond what their combat effectivness dictated. For the record I am not complaining about HAC costs as I like the fact that Eve has such a free market to allow price fixing
Harper04	Posted - 2006.03.13 22:23:00 - [335] Yes, but this thread is about the deimos and it's ability to be used, not its cost . ATM deimos is lacking in comparison to what she should be.
Bazman	Posted - 2006.03.13 22:23:00 - [336] Edited by: Bazman on 13/03/2006 22:24:37 Edited: Zomg, i thought i was in the other thread about HAC's :s p.s Fix the Deimos anyway, i have one I never undock now because i'll never buy another :P ----- Hi TomB! All out Do or Die Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks.
Harper04	Posted - 2006.03.13 22:27:00 - [337] Eh, with the correct loadout you can sit right at certain close range turret bs's optimal, and not get hit by them...ever. I'm not gonna discuss it, but suffice it to say I don't put tracking disruptors on my deimos. Usually this setup/tactic is followed by a swift nos'ing though.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.03.13 22:35:00 - [338] Originally by: Harper04 Yes, but this thread is about the deimos and it's ability to be used, not its cost . ATM deimos is lacking in comparison to what she should be. Right. Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.13 23:27:00 - [339] Thanks for nearly de-railing the thread, then getting it back on track again If we can keep this up and get enough intelligent replies, hopefully we can get a Dev response that'll let us know whether they plan on looking into it. I certainly hope so! Save The Deimos
EL TITAN	Posted - 2006.03.14 00:14:00 - [340] diemos is fine the way it is tbh theres other hacs in line before the diemos that need more loving _________________________________________________ <3 hi

Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.14 00:18:00 - [341] Originally by: EL TITAN diemos is fine the way it is tbh theres other hacs in line before the diemos that need more loving If you feel so strongly about other HACs, then take it up in another thread. This thread is about the Deimos and a place where people who fly her state their opinions. I have produced pages of figures (as have others) that show she is in need of a tweak. Unless you can give evidence to the contrary, please refrain from making simplistic posts like, "She's alright as she is". Save The Deimos
Femlin Tilith	Posted - 2006.03.14 01:53:00 - [342] Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: EL TITAN diemos is fine the way it is tbh theres other hacs in line before the diemos that need more loving If you feel so strongly about other HACs, then take it up in another thread. This thread is about the Deimos and a place where people who fly her state their opinions. I have produced pages of figures (as have others) that show she is in need of a tweak. Unless you can give evidence to the contrary, please refrain from making simplistic posts like, "She's alright as she is". Right on. Some ships need to to grow balls. The Deimos needs freakin' wings. Might as well be flying a brick. If I was in WWII they'd call me Spitfire
Asurix	Posted - 2006.03.14 11:30:00 - [343] ATM, the Deimos has a too low base speed for a VERY close range ship (lower then Thorax), too high signature radius, too little CPU, too little powergrid and too little capacitor. As it is if you mwd to your target you have too little cap left to fight. Also, it's almost impossible to fit ions+medium nosferatu without fitting an RCU II. Imo this is stupid since a zealot can fit a 1600mm plate, AB, good tank with medium repper and 4 guns with a med nosf without using an RCU II. Give the deimos 150 PG, 40 CPU and 25m/s more speed, lower the sig radius a bit and the weight and we're all set.
Commander Nikolas	Posted - 2006.03.14 11:52:00 - [344] Originally by: Asurix ATM, the Deimos has a too low base speed for a VERY close range ship (lower then Thorax), too high signature radius, too little CPU, too little powergrid and too little capacitor. As it is if you mwd to your target you have too little cap left to fight. Also, it's almost impossible to fit ions+medium nosferatu without fitting an RCU II. Imo this is stupid since a zealot can fit a 1600mm plate, AB, good tank with medium repper and 4 guns with a med nosf without using an RCU II. Give the deimos 150 PG, 40 CPU and 25m/s more speed, lower the sig radius a bit and the weight and we're all set. If someone at CCP just entered those changes into the database the deimos would be fixed and perfectly balanced :). /signed
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.14 11:58:00 - [345] The Zealot Vs Deimos argument comes up a lot, and I fly both (and love both) so here are some comparisons: Omen -> Zealot Powergrid: 730 -> 1090 (360 Increase) CPU: 250 -> 315 (65 Increase) Velocity: 190 -> 215 (25ms Increase) Signature Radius: 125m -> 125m (No Difference) Drones: 15m3 -> 0m3 (15m3 Loss i.e. Three Light Drones) Note: The Zealot has two more low slots, and her only loss over the Omen is her drone bay Thorax -> Deimos Powergrid: 820 -> 860 (40 Increase) CPU: 300 -> 330 (30 Increase) Velocity: 180 -> 170 (10ms Loss) Signature Radius: 140m -> 160m (20m Gain) Drones: 50m3 -> 50m3 (No Difference) Note: The Deimos has another high and another low slot I think the figures speak for themselves. The Zealot is considered one of the most balanced and worthwhile HACs around. She loses a drone bay but gains a lot of damage, and she can pack a meaty tank into those low slots. She's flexible, fast and can hit from nearly point blank out to 40Km with Heavy Pulse IIs, or 100Km plus with Beams. The Deimos on the other hand is slower and bigger than the Thorax despite being a blaster ship i.e. completely dependent on getting under the enemy guns without taking too much of a beating on he way in, with a measly increase in power and CPU that's expected to cover another high and another low slot. Even with full fitting skills, 40 PG and 30 CPU are simply not enough by any stretch of the imagination. I think the Zealot is a prime example of a Tech 2 cruiser being given its full potential, the Deimos is not. Save The Deimos
Gariuys	Posted - 2006.03.14 14:14:00 - [346] Originally by: EL TITAN diemos is fine the way it is tbh theres other hacs in line before the diemos that need more loving You've made me see the light, in the face of such awesome arguments who can argue that the deimos(note the spelling of the word) is in fact not quite fine the way it is. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Celador Nane	Posted - 2006.03.14 14:18:00 - [347] Originally by: Asurix ATM, the Deimos has a too low base speed for a VERY close range ship (lower then Thorax), too high signature radius, too little CPU, too little powergrid and too little capacitor. As it is if you mwd to your target you have too little cap left to fight. Also, it's almost impossible to fit ions+medium nosferatu without fitting an RCU II. Imo this is stupid since a zealot can fit a 1600mm plate, AB, good tank with medium repper and 4 guns with a med nosf without using an RCU II. Give the deimos 150 PG, 40 CPU and 25m/s more speed, lower the sig radius a bit and the weight and we're all set. No the zealot can't fit 4 guns, 1600mm plate, med nos, repper and AB without a RCU.
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.14 16:28:00 - [348] Originally by: Celador Nane Originally by: Asurix ATM, the Deimos has a too low base speed for a VERY close range ship (lower then Thorax), too high signature radius, too little CPU, too little powergrid and too little capacitor. As it is if you mwd to your target you have too little cap left to fight. Also, it's almost impossible to fit ions+medium nosferatu without fitting an RCU II. Imo this is stupid since a zealot can fit a 1600mm plate, AB, good tank with medium repper and 4 guns with a med nosf without using an RCU II. Give the deimos 150 PG, 40 CPU and 25m/s more speed, lower the sig radius a bit and the weight and we're all set. No the zealot can't fit 4 guns, 1600mm plate, med nos, repper and AB without a RCU. She can with a PDU II, and she can fit a MWD with an RCU II (assuming full fitting skills): Quote: Zealot Grid = 1362.5 Zealot Grid w/ PDU II = 1430 Zealot Grid w/ RCU II = 1566.875 Zealot CPU = 393.75 4 * Focused Pulse IIs: 475.2/87 1 * M Diminising: 175/20 AB II/MWD II: 55/25 / 165/50 20Km Scrambler (Faint): 1/32 Webber (Langour): 1/20 1600mm RT: 500/28 Thermic Hardener (N-Type): 1/32 Energ. Adap. Nano II: 2/30 M Armor Rep II: 173/28 PDU II / RCU II: 0/15 / 0/20 2 * Heat Sink II: 2/60 OR 1 Heat Sink II + CPR: 1/33 TOTAL (AB + PDU II): 1385.2/377 TOTAL (MWD + RCU II + CPR): 1494.2/375 Note that I am not saying anything is wrong with the Zealot. She trades firepower for a tank in the above setup(s). The Deimos can't do the same unfortunately, she simply doesn't have the fitting ability. Heck, with a PDU II and full fitting skills I can squeeze on two Ion Blasters and have three Electron Blasters, nervermind a 1600mm plate (the latter a deathwish in a ship this slow). I run out of CPU trying to cram in Ion Blasters and an RCU II because the Deimos only has 15 more CPU than a Zealot, the latter of which is an Amarr ship i.e. it's guns are fairly light on CPU. What I am basically saying is the Zealot is flexible and the Deimos is not. I wouldn't mind being unable to fit a 1600mm plate in my Deimos, as long as she was deadly in her chosen role of up-close combat. Save The Deimos
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.14 17:05:00 - [349] I had a look at signature radii today: Heavy Assault Ship Signatures Sacrilege: 145m Zealot: 125m Muninn: 130m Vagabond: 115m Cerberus: 135m Eagle: 150m Ishtar: 145m Deimos: 160m Why does the ship most dependant upon its signature radius due to the MWD bonus have the largest, by quite a margin may I add? She's slower than a Thorax and bigger too, so on the approach (which takes longer) she's about 800m across due to the MWD. This makes no sense. If a ship is designed for use with an MWD, its signature radius should be as low as possible. Harder to hit when it's sitting still or under your guns, but a sitting duck on the way in. Balance. Look at the Vagabond - she can be a vicious close-range ship when fitted with an MWD and autocannons. I know, I have fought them in my Deimos. Yet they have a signature radius of 115m compared with the Deimos' 160m? Perhaps the hope was to make the Deimos easier to hit once it's under your nose, but by increasing it from the Thorax's 140m to 160m they've made her a flying target. There are so many different things fundamentally wrong with the way the Deimos is designed considering her role. She takes so many steps back from the Thorax and takes so few forwards, it's no wonder everyone flies the Ishtar these days. Save The Deimos
Techyon	Posted - 2006.03.14 17:23:00 - [350] According to the Item Database the Sacrilege even has a 140mm sig. Interesting how all other HACs have such a significantly lower sig radius especially when looking at each HACs roles I'll make a post here about the Deimos tonight, I was working on it now but I'm off for dinner n stuff. ------

laksjfgkjka	Posted - 2006.03.14 20:05:00 - [351] The problem with the Deimos is that its a beautiful ship, a ship you just want/need to fly. Such a sweet looking ship (subject to taste), and it 'feels' right aswell when you look at it. So you buy one and start doing some tests, train up skills and say : wow, look at my DPS figures... not really impressive but coupled with drones like valkyrie II's to spread your damage types indeed nothing to fool around with. Then you start pvping and you notice how hard it actually is to apply that full DPS to your enemy. You will have to be within 5k with Ion blaster II's to come close to maximizing full Damage potential. between 5-10k you will hit reasonably but your hits will be worse than at optimal, you will lose between 0-50% damage potential from your optimal to your optimal + falloff depending on range.. (being 0% at optimal and 50% at optimal + falloff) As many others in this thread have described, the Deimos has some serious design flaws considering its purpose, which acording to the Deimos' description is : "Sharing more tactical elements with smaller vessels than with its size-class counterparts, the Deimos represents the final word in up-close-and-personal cruiser combat. Venture too close to this one, and swift death is your only guarantee." I'm sorry, more tactical elements with smaller vessels than with its size-class counterparts ?! wtf ? that can't be right, the thing flies like a ******* brick and it accelerates like an old fiat panda(slow old car). It also has a damn big sig radius compared to other hacs, especially if you compare to a hac that shares its role somewhat like the Vagabond. (Note that I certainly am not asking for a sig radius of 115mm like that of the Vaga, but something like 140-130 would be alot more appropriate considering the role of the Deimos. Note also that a Deimos always uses a MWD on a normal blaster setup, it can't do without unless you use a cov ops, but even then it can be very dangerous not to have a MWD on) One of the Deimos' problems is not so much the top speed (although the top speed IS too low) but the agility/acceleration. It simply isn't agile enough for up-close fighting (keeping your enemy within range/maneuvering in range), nor does it accelerate fast enough to get the ship to the target in any considerable amount of time (in other words : before you're dead or a 'lost cause'). If you start between 10-20k with a Deimos chances are pretty big that by the time you manage to get within 5k (provided you manage at all against enemies with nasty webbers who are faster than you most of the time so it doesn't matter much if you web anyway) you have usually lost half your capacitor or more to tanking and mwding, not to mention the NOS that is likely to be used upon you and the problem that your tank most likely isn't holding. What I think the Deimos needs : - More Agility. I'm not really familiar with radius agility thingy figures but it needs to be a tad more agile than the thorax, remember its supposed to improve upon close range in respect to the thorax. - Signature Radius. A decrease is needed. I suggest a -25 decrease which would bring the deimos to a sig radius of 135. - A bit more speed because it is quite ridiculous that long range ships as the Cerberus, Muninn, Eagle are faster than a dedicated short range ship. 30+ m/s base or so would do the trick - It needs more grid/CPU. But this depends on any future blaster changes as well. As it stands now with blasters in their current state I propose something like this : Current state : 860 grid, 330 CPU With engineering V : 1075 grid, 412.5 CPU Proposal : 990 grid (130+), 360 CPU(+30) With engineering V : 1237.5 grid, 450 CPU Not at all unreasonable changes if you look at it carefully.
Techyon	Posted - 2006.03.14 20:06:00 - [352] Edited by: Techyon on 14/03/2006 20:07:02 laksjfgkjka is me, something went wrong there :P With this fitting change you would be able to fit (only with AWU 4 or higher) : -5x Ion II -Med Nos -MWD -Med Rep II and fill up the other slots with auxiliary mods like mag stab II, cpr, etc. You would be left with something like 0-40 MW depending on things like taking a t2 NOS or MWD. The same setup won't be possible with Heavy Neutron II's. you will need to sacrifice the NOS + either the Med Rep or MWD to be able to fit the Neutrons so you would still be sacrificing defense or speed if you want max damage, like it should be. The CPU increase is an estimate but I think its about right. it will only yield 37.5 extra CPU to be able to fit the Med Nos and some other stuff. Neutrons will be tight. So if the above proposed changes are applied wonÆt the Deimos be overpowered? No. There are several arguments here as to why not : Although the fitting abilities are increased the deimos isnÆt able to do anything spiffy damage wise it couldnÆt do before having 990 grid and 360 CPU base available. The only thing that is beneficial for the Deimos pilot is that he can finally fit a Med Nos with an Ion II setup, which will provide him/her with some vital cap or cancel out being nossed (a bit). The agility, speed and sig radius changes are beneficial for the Deimos pilot in that he/she is taking less damage on approach for his approach will be faster, and he has a reduced sig radius (Note 160 * 5 = 800, 135 * 5 = 675) which makes quite a difference. However a Deimos wonÆt outrun or catch for example a Vagabond, Munin or Zealot with MWD for that matter. A Vaga can still orbit joyfully just outside web range laughing at the Deimos while it dies. While a Zealot or Muninn could for example keep range. Granted that Zealots and Muninns are less likely to fit an MWD than a Vagabond ofcourse. IÆll leave it at this. A lot of other people that know the Deimos have brought up the same things I have and recommended similar tweaks. It seems apparent to me that the Deimos definitely needs some changes, preferable something similar to the above. ------
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.14 20:28:00 - [353] Good posts Techyon. Those numbers look good to me. Being able to fit Ion Blasters would allow you some chance of doing damage when webbed, would put her in-line with other Gallente ships and would allow her to live up to her namesake. What exactly does she share with smaller craft? She's bigger and slower than the Thorax! Those Gallente engineers need to start looking for other jobs... This thread has over three-hundred replies, is twelve pages long and presents pretty convincing arguments that the Deimos needs to be addressed. I think we would all really appreciate it if a Dev could take a look and let us know whether anything is planned. Save The Deimos
Chuu Mei	Posted - 2006.03.14 23:20:00 - [354] Can't....let.....go Bump
Lord Noodle	Posted - 2006.03.14 23:42:00 - [355] Originally by: LUKEC Apart from that, everything that deimos does, can be done with thorax for like 10% of the price. How is this any different from a Rupture/Muninn comparison? The Deimos is a very good ship, unlike the Muninn it can do L4 missions solo and it is superior in PvP aswell. And you can't do a 10 page Deimos thread without talking about other ships. If all you ever did was say 'my ship isn't powerful enough, boohoo' without comparing it to others, you would never achieve balance. You've highlighted some of the weakpoints of the Deimos, look at the boosts it has gotten this last year: Utility drones (Unlike a Zealot YOU HAVE A DRONEBAY.) Increase in drone HP Megapulse nerf 1 year ago Stacking nerf 3 months ago Blaster revision -SOON- So you see the Zealot has been going down with every patch, the Deimos is only going up. STOP WHINING.
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.15 00:10:00 - [356] Originally by: Lord Noodle Originally by: LUKEC Apart from that, everything that deimos does, can be done with thorax for like 10% of the price. How is this any different from a Rupture/Muninn comparison? The Deimos is a very good ship, unlike the Muninn it can do L4 missions solo and it is superior in PvP aswell. And you can't do a 10 page Deimos thread without talking about other ships. If all you ever did was say 'my ship isn't powerful enough, boohoo' without comparing it to others, you would never achieve balance. True, but I have taken other ships into account. What I don't appreciate is when someone says, "Your campaign isn't worthwhile because my ship needs to be addressed as well". As I have said, if there are aspects of your ships that you want fixed, then create an argument for it and take it up. Originally by: Lord Noodle Utility drones (Unlike a Zealot YOU HAVE A DRONEBAY.) Five medium utility drones aren't particularly handy. I have tried setups with Tracking Disruptor drones, Nosfer drones, Dampening drones and EW drones. The only time any of them were actually of any use was when ECM drones successfully jammed a Zealot for the first time in the entire engagement and allowed me to warp out. Granted I don't have a dronebay on my Zealot, but she gets so many significant boosts and bonuses elsewhere it doesn't concern me. Personally, I would happily lose half of her drone bay if it meant I could use Ion Blasters easily and she moved through the ether a little quicker. Look at my comparison between the Deimos and the Zealot again. The latter loses her (rather small to begin with) drone bay and instead has bonus upon bonus heaped upon her that make sense according to her give role. Originally by: Lord Noodle Increase in drone HP Ermmm, perhaps because drone bays were halved and you can only fly a maximum of five now? Originally by: Lord Noodle Megapulse nerf 1 year ago Last I checked my Zealot can't fit a Mega Pulse laser. Even if I am fighting a Battleship why should this matter? The Armageddon has always been vulnerable at point-blank ranges. I've killed them in my Zealot before using an Afterburner and Multifrequencies. One of the main talking points in this thread has been the Deimos' performance against other HACs. Originally by: Lord Noodle Stacking nerf 3 months ago Again, not really an issue. In fact it's resulted in a lot of Amarr ships packing a decent tank these days which means the Deimos needs even longer to kill a target, time she doesn't have. If she could get into range and use Ion Blasters she might have a chance. Originally by: Lord Noodle Blaster revision -SOON- It's been mentioned, but do we have any idea what it will entail? A lot of the posts in this thread are concerned with the ship itself and her low speed and agility, never mind the inability to fit Ion Blasters. Nobody official has mentioned anything in this thread about the Deimos being looked at, so how do we know the blaster changes won't just effect the Megathron like the time they reduced Large Hybrid fitting? Originally by: Lord Noodle So you see the Zealot has been going down with every patch, the Deimos is only going up. STOP WHINING. I still fly my Zealot a lot, and have done for the last year. I haven't noticed her 'going down', in fact I use her far more often than my Deimos. Why? Because I can strap on setups that are flexible and reward my months and years of skill training. I, along with others in this thread, have located what we perceive to be numerous faults in the design of the Deimos. We pay for the game the same as you, and we pay to enjoy it. Why don't we have a right to complain if we feel something we enjoy is falling short of the mark? Save The Deimos
Spartan239	Posted - 2006.03.15 01:05:00 - [357] Originally by: Lord Noodle Blaster revision -SOON- The blaster patch is gonna be large only last time i checked so hwo does this make a difference?
Death Merchant	Posted - 2006.03.15 04:20:00 - [358] I wholeheartedly agree with OP. Please visit the deimos and allow more flexibility.
twit brent	Posted - 2006.03.15 06:43:00 - [359] I got a deimos, undocked, played with it a bit then sold it and baught an ishtar.
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.03.15 08:47:00 - [360] TomB hinted that blasters (WITHOUT specifying any size!) needed fitting and tracking looked into. My guess is that he's gonna reduce fittings of blasters across the board and increase tracking a bit. This wouldn't hurt any balances, except maybe let the Taranis fit a small nos, too with certain setups (though I doubt you'll save enough grid with the patch to fit neutrons and a nos with double MAPC). As far as the other frigates are concerned, the Ares need all the help it'll get and the frigates aren't all that anyways. When HACs were released I was a bit "WTF, mate?" about the speed in particular. I've always found it odd that Gallente ships neither are the fastest nor the most agile, while being the closest ranged. Throughout history those two attributes, and especially agility, have proven to be the most important attributes of close range combat crafts, yet Gallente let the "we like artillery" minmatar steal the speed glory. Now that they made a close combat dedicated ship, which specifically stated that it was blaster glory incarnate, they made it slow and fat. In either case, what that little rant was gonna illustrate originally was that I've found Deimos works really well with Caldari technology (railguns). If the Deimos is increased too much in fitting, then a 5x200mm and a Med nos setup's gonna be a tad too easy and powerful to fit. Believe me, that sort of setup is nasty since it reaches that sweetspot balance where you can keep inside battleship weaponry but outside short range superiority. It also gets to do quite a bit of damage in most encounters compared to the blaster setups. An interesting note is that a railgun setup Deimos often, if not always, sits above blaster deimoses on killmails. This means more damage has been done while the blaster ships (vainly) tried to get in range. That said, I don't think the Deimos really needs a signature decrease. As was said, it tend to use an MWD to oblivion and by then another 150m signature isn't gonna make a whole lot of difference (in fact, +0% missile damage and about +1-2% chanc of getting hit by large turrets isn't that great, no?). After all, MWD is turned off when you get close enough. Speed is where the Deimos really needs it. However, as I understand it, the devs balanced the HACs versus each other, particulary in dogfights. A problem there was that the Zealot was balanced particulary because of it's speed advantage. Remember when the HACs were new and they (Meridius and more) were complaining about the Zealot, comparing it to the Deimos (then held out to be the OMGWTFPWN). Eventually TomB stepped in with graphs and explanations showing that the Zealot did more damage at certain ranges, in spite of having no drones, and that due to speed and tracking it'd have an advantage regardless. Originally by: KilROCK Originally by: Arkanor Gallente missileboat might be cool. Pod yourself till you got no skills.[

VanDam	Posted - 2006.03.15 09:30:00 - [361] Quote: The Zealot can fit a plate and use Focused lasers, why can't a Deimos at least have a usable setup with a 1600mm plate? Why is there such a small divide between the Deimos and the Thorax when it comes to powergrid? I am not arguing for the Deimos to have big guns, and MWD, and a plate. I am arguing that she should be able to choose to do so, and if she decides to go all out damage, allow her to fill her high-slots with decent weaponry without needing powergrid upgrades in the lows. my m8 can fit a deimos with a 1600mm plate and a mwd he uses electrons and his deimos is awesome. plates and ECM aint the end of the world my zealot can kill deimos's and it dont have a plate on any ECM
VanDam	Posted - 2006.03.15 09:30:00 - [362] Quote: The Zealot can fit a plate and use Focused lasers, why can't a Deimos at least have a usable setup with a 1600mm plate? Why is there such a small divide between the Deimos and the Thorax when it comes to powergrid? I am not arguing for the Deimos to have big guns, and MWD, and a plate. I am arguing that she should be able to choose to do so, and if she decides to go all out damage, allow her to fill her high-slots with decent weaponry without needing powergrid upgrades in the lows. my m8 can fit a deimos with a 1600mm plate and a mwd he uses electrons and his deimos is awesome. plates and ECM aint the end of the world my zealot can kill deimos's and it dont have a plate on any ECM
Spartan239	Posted - 2006.03.15 09:45:00 - [363] Originally by: VanDam Quote: The Zealot can fit a plate and use Focused lasers, why can't a Deimos at least have a usable setup with a 1600mm plate? Why is there such a small divide between the Deimos and the Thorax when it comes to powergrid? I am not arguing for the Deimos to have big guns, and MWD, and a plate. I am arguing that she should be able to choose to do so, and if she decides to go all out damage, allow her to fill her high-slots with decent weaponry without needing powergrid upgrades in the lows. my m8 can fit a deimos with a 1600mm plate and a mwd he uses electrons and his deimos is awesome. plates and ECM aint the end of the world my zealot can kill deimos's and it dont have a plate on any ECM you can, but you ahve to fit a small rep to do it,and you get webbed by a zealot yoru stuck and he will shred you, deimos needs speed and agilyity
Miklas Laces	Posted - 2006.03.15 10:35:00 - [364] Originally by: VanDam my m8 can fit a deimos with a 1600mm plate and a mwd he uses electrons and his deimos is awesome. You must be joking. With advanced weapon upgrades 4: Deimos powergrid: 1075 5x Electron Blaster II: 480 1x 10MN Microwarpdrive II: 165 1x 1600mm plate: 500 1075 - 480 -165 - 500 = -73 powergrid And you still have 8 (eight) empty slot to fill.. It's funny that you mention the Zealot because that ship can fit a full rack of Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, a MWD II and a 1600mm plate. And still has 211 powergrid left...
BOldMan	Posted - 2006.03.15 11:43:00 - [365] Blaster-boats are hardest ships to fit. Deimos is harder blasterboat to fit. Galente sciences who developed the deimos are fired and imprisoned. Really, when you spend so much time to learn the skills to fly a deimos, buy one with a lot of isk and start to fit the only consolation is Istahr. Deimos is good for NPC. ...warping...
Gary Goat	Posted - 2006.03.15 20:25:00 - [366] Can we get a dev response to this thread please? Pretty please
Barella	Posted - 2006.03.15 20:32:00 - [367] interesting stuff thx beep. beep.
Harper04	Posted - 2006.03.15 23:36:00 - [368] Must...keep...on...1st...page. Dev response about boosting my baby pls!
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.16 10:36:00 - [369] Originally by: Tuxford Coming up Blasters Save The Deimos
Miklas Laces	Posted - 2006.03.16 11:05:00 - [370] Edited by: Miklas Laces on 16/03/2006 11:05:32 Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: Tuxford Coming up Blasters It means they really didn't have the time to look into it yet, but they couldn't announce all those new tweaks without mentioning blasters. Am I right ?

Techyon	Posted - 2006.03.16 21:53:00 - [371] You might actually not be far off the truth... although Tux mentioned they were looking at 'fitting req and cap usage of blasters' in Sarmaul's thread. Now lets hope they slightly boost the damage output aswell, to make fitting blasters more rewarding. On a more important note.. can we PLEASE, TUX, PLEASE get a response to this thread from you ?! atm I don't even care wether you say : 'no I'm not even going to look into the Deimos' or 'yes I'm going to look into the Deimos in addition to just blasters' (because blasters aren't de Deimos' only problem as has been pointed out many many times in this thread). ------
Kunming	Posted - 2006.03.17 11:22:00 - [372] Just read Tux's info about the new changes.. does this mean the devs are going to look into blasters only cause they think thats the deimos' only problem, or does it mean they didnt have time to have a look into it yet? I really hope the devs stop ignoring this thread Website Kaos Empire Killboard
Gariuys	Posted - 2006.03.17 12:36:00 - [373] Just hope they don't change cap use and tracking for blasters and leave it at that. Tracking I can deal with, Signature focusing 5 and webber FTW. It's cap use I can deal with as well. Fights shouldn't take long if you're a blasterboat. They're weakness of blasters, but they're not what needs fixing ( not that I'll be against a tracking boost cause tracking on blasters is indeed difficult too master ) ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Puppet Misstress	Posted - 2006.03.17 19:07:00 - [374] back to top you go
Centurin	Posted - 2006.03.17 19:41:00 - [375] Its a fact of EVE life that blasterboats are a thing of the past. Whether you are fitting a thorax, deimos, vigilant, or megathron. Blasters just suck. The drone bay in the thorax is the only thing that made it viable before RMR. Deimos is no different. It wouldn't be EVE without crappy blasters and bugged drones.
Gary Goat	Posted - 2006.03.18 04:30:00 - [376] So will the blaster changes be for all blasters or just the large. If its for meds as well then it will help the deimos but it still needs looking into. Give us a sign oh mighty ones.
Car Salesman	Posted - 2006.03.18 17:57:00 - [377] Edited by: Car Salesman on 18/03/2006 17:59:11 Signed! Agree with Dash 100%.
Femlin Tilith	Posted - 2006.03.18 19:39:00 - [378] I think we can leave the blasters to another thread. The agility/speed/inertia of the deimos or lack thereof is more than enough topic for this thread. Unfortunately, the ToWhomItMayConcern people who could address this are either: a. too lazy to comment b. too oblivious to notice this thread has been at or near the top for over weak c. flying something in game other than a deimos or d. they just don't give a frog's fat arse Or it could be that they just don't know how to fix it without it effecting other things that would in turn need fixing but I doubt it. If I was in WWII they'd call me Spitfire
Gary Goat	Posted - 2006.03.19 14:23:00 - [379] And we're back on page 1
Miklas Laces	Posted - 2006.03.20 12:35:00 - [380] Originally by: Femlin Tilith I think we can leave the blasters to another thread. The agility/speed/inertia of the deimos or lack thereof is more than enough topic for this thread. Unfortunately, the ToWhomItMayConcern people who could address this are either: a. too lazy to comment b. too oblivious to notice this thread has been at or near the top for over weak c. flying something in game other than a deimos or d. they just don't give a frog's fat arse Or it could be that they just don't know how to fix it without it effecting other things that would in turn need fixing but I doubt it. At the moment we don't know if med blasters will be affected by the changes. Maybe the devs haven't decided what to do about blasters yet, and therefore they cannot say anything about the Deimos. One thing that I'd like to point out is that the ship has powergrid problems regardless of the type of turrets. Even a setup with 5x 200mm II railguns is complicated. With adv. weapon upgrades lvl 4, after fitting 5x 200mm II and 1x Medium Armor Repairer II you are left with 32 PG. Not even enough for an AB. And hey you still have 9 (nine) empty slots.

Bazman	Posted - 2006.03.20 19:46:00 - [381] Its rediculous that this thread has gone on so long without a dev responce, i mean, hell, just look at it :P ----- Hi TomB! All out Do or Die Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks.
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.03.20 19:49:00 - [382] Edited by: KilROCK on 20/03/2006 19:49:04 Reminds me about something the dev said at the Vegas gathering 'Oh what's that? A topic that has 30 pages of something a guy doesn't like, WE GOT TO CHANGE THAT!' But yea, It's not one guy, it's alot of people with the ability to use a deimos and turning on another ship because the deimos doesn't perform as it should.. Originally by: Ithildin Q: Will the Gallente ship have lots of missiles? I think it's time. A: Die. You are not
Bazman	Posted - 2006.03.20 20:20:00 - [383] Has anyone ever lost a Deimos to a Thorax, pre RMR, I did! Boost meh Deimos :s ----- Hi TomB! All out Do or Die Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks.
Gary Goat	Posted - 2006.03.21 01:08:00 - [384] Quote: Has anyone ever lost a Deimos to a Thorax, pre RMR, I did! Boost meh Deimos :s Wasnt there an eve vid where a thorax kills a deimos as well? Yes the pre rmr thorax was stupidly overpowered but enough so to kill a hac? I've never heard of any other hac beeing killed by a t1 cruiser. Devs please read
Emsigma	Posted - 2006.03.21 09:26:00 - [385] The main probz are still that the Deimos is as agile as a pregnant cow and don't have a grid to support even the medium guns =/ What's the point of making a blasterboat if every other ship outspeeds it?
Techyon	Posted - 2006.03.21 10:19:00 - [386] Originally by: KilROCK Edited by: KilROCK on 20/03/2006 19:49:04 Reminds me about something the dev said at the Vegas gathering 'Oh what's that? A topic that has 30 pages of something a guy doesn't like, WE GOT TO CHANGE THAT!' But yea, It's not one guy, it's alot of people with the ability to use a deimos and turning on another ship because the deimos doesn't perform as it should.. Exactly, its not one guy and arguments provided have been backed up with figures 'n facts. Of course its subject to opinion as how to interpret those figures 'n facts. But anyone who seriously flies the Deimos knows changes have to be made. It depends on what happens to blasters where the fitting reqs are concerned, but it wether blasters are changed or not the Deimos needs a sig rad/agility/speed buff. I hope the devs go fly the deimos themselves vs some other competent hacs pilots perhaps they'll realise we're not talking bs here. ------
Felxia	Posted - 2006.03.21 21:00:00 - [387] not letting this thread die as it proves that deimos does infact need a somewhat boost in an area.
dantes inferno	Posted - 2006.03.21 21:47:00 - [388] just flew my first (and for the forseable future last) deimos...the thing was a nightmare to fit PG wise..and as a blasterboat...its as fast as a lame snail carrying a 20 ton weight...something needs to be done with it. _____ This is a Stain Alliance Fighter. It is protecting the assets of Stain Alliance, and may attack anyone it perceives as a threat, Threat Level: Trigglarist Fundermentalist
Audrea	Posted - 2006.03.21 22:13:00 - [389] QTF :) and bump, keep bumping till we get responce ---------------------------------------------- All my posts are my own opinions and dont not represent any organization until stated otherwise.
Gary Goat	Posted - 2006.03.22 16:02:00 - [390] Quote: just flew my first (and for the forseable future last) deimos...the thing was a nightmare to fit PG wise..and as a blasterboat...its as fast as a lame snail carrying a 20 ton weight...something needs to be done with it. See we're not just making this up to make our ship better then the rest. We just want it to be in line with other hacs. Is that really so much to ask? Anybody want to start a pool on how many pages this thread will be before we get a dev response? Devs please read

Techyon	Posted - 2006.03.22 17:07:00 - [391] 20 ? ------
Harper04	Posted - 2006.03.22 18:53:00 - [392] another 13 AFTER the blaster changes come into effect...
sgt spike	Posted - 2006.03.22 19:46:00 - [393] i gotta say im surprised theres still no dev response yet but i think its possible that a blaster change may just fix the deimos as a reduction in cap use and pg use will free up grid for that medium nos we all know we deserve can you put a price on peace?
sakana	Posted - 2006.03.22 20:38:00 - [394] bump, this needs to be sorted
Bratak Matamulk	Posted - 2006.03.22 21:13:00 - [395] BUMP...please fix the deimos or blasters in general! Please. Broken.
Spartan239	Posted - 2006.03.22 21:23:00 - [396] Originally by: Bratak Matamulk BUMP...please fix the deimos or blasters in general! Please. Broken. at least Large Blasters are getting fixed, small dont realy need a boost, and medium are ok as well, the isssue isnt with blasters but with the deimos itsefl
sgt spike	Posted - 2006.03.23 07:54:00 - [397] Originally by: Spartan239 Originally by: Bratak Matamulk BUMP...please fix the deimos or blasters in general! Please. Broken. at least Large Blasters are getting fixed, small dont realy need a boost, and medium are ok as well, the isssue isnt with blasters but with the deimos itsefl if medium blasters are ok why does everyone have to fit a cap booster on a brutix? 7 blasters eat yer cap in 0.3 seconds deimos suffers similar but not quite as severe problems can you put a price on peace?
Gariuys	Posted - 2006.03.23 08:02:00 - [398] Deimos doesn't suffer as badly cause it doesn't get the mwd penalty and has battleship lvl cap recharge ( as do all other HACs ) ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Valigis	Posted - 2006.03.23 09:18:00 - [399] bump.
Gary Goat	Posted - 2006.03.23 19:07:00 - [400] Bump Everything else has been said already Devs please read

HUGO DRAX	Posted - 2006.03.23 19:18:00 - [401] Last post! Dont just complain, do something. Channel macrointel meet with likeminded folks, spottings,intel
Kamate	Posted - 2006.03.24 00:39:00 - [402] BUMP...BUMP It would seem that we are going after the squeaky wheel getting the grease theory here. 14 pages of discussion about this has to give some substantiation to the arguments herein. Hopefully we will get a dev response soon, even if it only says "go to hell and stop posting about the deimos!!!" Anything would be better than the silence and bumps!! We all wait with baited breath for a response from those on high with the power to fix the deimos, devs...please look this way!! Please!!
Harper04	Posted - 2006.03.24 04:54:00 - [403] /emote pushes his "Easy" button (for those who've seen that commercial)...get back on the first page! Bump. Btw, if no dev response about the deimos, at least gimme details on the blaster fix.
Harper04	Posted - 2006.03.24 05:00:00 - [404] Edited by: Harper04 on 24/03/2006 05:00:41 double post 4tl
Jacob Majestic	Posted - 2006.03.24 05:21:00 - [405] Originally by: sgt spike if medium blasters are ok why does everyone have to fit a cap booster on a brutix? Because we like to run dual reps? Those soak cap like crazy.
Aramova	Posted - 2006.03.24 07:47:00 - [406] /signed, this needs to be looked at. Blasters in general need a rework, Medium and Large blasters need CPU/PG droped a bit compaired to other ships ---
Theron Gyrow	Posted - 2006.03.24 08:10:00 - [407] Originally by: Kamate 14 pages of discussion about this has to give some substantiation to the arguments herein. Well, no. The amount of discussion doesn't say anything about the substance. In this case, however, I completely agree: Deimos is just too slow, clumsy and difficult to fit and a huge target to boot. -- Gradient's forum
Felxia	Posted - 2006.03.26 18:13:00 - [408] Originally by: Aramova /signed, this needs to be looked at. Blasters in general need a rework, Medium and Large blasters need CPU/PG droped a bit compaired to other ships think the devs are looking into it.
Miklas Laces	Posted - 2006.03.27 14:55:00 - [409] Originally by: Tuxford Didn't know Deimos needed love but it should be easier to fix after blaster love.
Harper04	Posted - 2006.03.27 20:26:00 - [410] Blasters' grid reduction and cap usage reduction (both things said to be being done w/blaster boost) would go a LONG way toward fixing the deimos IMO. Tiny bit more cpu and maybe 5-10 m/s faster too, and I'd be in heaven. For those questioning the medium blasters, Tux said in another thread that the blaster boost would help the deimos, so yes, medium sized blasters are getting boosted too...not just larges!

Mather Maelstrom	Posted - 2006.03.27 20:47:00 - [411] I hope that is the case, but to be honest I think a boost to signature and speed would have been better. I find the hardest part of flying a deimos in the appoach. Perhaps being able to fit a better tank or getting more damage will make up for that tough. //No Pro Gallente RP, no Coreli & Cyrene anymore\\
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.27 20:50:00 - [412] Edited by: Dash Ripcock on 27/03/2006 20:50:27 To be honest, a slight increase in velocity and agility coupled with the same signature radius as the Thorax (20m difference means 100m with an MWD - nothing to be sniffed at) would, with blaster changes, make the Deimos the king of close-range combat. The way it was meant to be. Save The Deimos
Harper04	Posted - 2006.03.27 20:58:00 - [413] The agility I honestly don't mind quite as much...though that may be due to my blasterthron use. Bit lower of a sig radius would be great though.
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.28 00:23:00 - [414] It can be a real pig if you need to pin someone down without much time. If she had the same statistics as the Thorax (although in principle they should be better, she is Tech 2 after all) she would be far less frustrating to fly. Save The Deimos
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.28 01:08:00 - [415] Rupture/Muninn PG: 860 / 950 = 10.5% INCREASE CPU: 325 / 355 = 9.23% INCREASE Sig Radius: 130 / 130 = 0% Velocity: 200 / 204 = 2% INCREASE TOTAL FITTING INCREASE: 19.73% Stabber/Vagabond PG: 700 / 855 = 22.1% INCREASE CPU: 300 / 395 = 31.7% INCREASE Sig Radius: 105 / 115 = 9.52% INCREASE Velocity: 235 / 242 = 2.98% INCREASE TOTAL FITTING INCREASE: 53.8% Vexor/Ishtar PG: 675 / 700 = 3.8% INCREASE CPU: 270 / 285 = 5.5% INCREASE Sig Radius: 150 / 145 = 3.33% DECREASE Velocity: 170 / 190 = 11.8% INCREASE TOTAL FITTING INCREASE: 9.3% Thorax/Deimos PG: 820 / 860 = 4.8% INCREASE CPU: 300 / 330 = 10% INCREASE Sig Radius: 140 / 160 = 14.3% INCREASE Velocity: 180 / 170 = 5.55% DECREASE TOTAL FITTING INCREASE: 14.8% Omen/Zealot PG: 730 / 1090 = 49.3% INCREASE CPU: 250 / 315 = 26.0% INCREASE Sig Radius: 125 / 125 = 0% Velocity: 190 / 215 = 13.2% INCREASE TOTAL FITTING INCREASE: 75.3% Maller/Sacrilege PG: 900 / 1000 = 11.1% INCREASE CPU: 280 / 320 = 14.3% INCREASE Sig Radius: 130 / 140 = 7.69% INCREASE Velocity: 175 / 175 = 0% TOTAL FITTING INCREASE: 25.4% Caracal/Cerberus PG: 530 / 635 = 19.8% INCREASE CPU: 350 / 440 = 25.7% INCREASE Sig Radius: 145 / 135 = 6.90% DECREASE Velocity: 187 / 185 = 1.07% DECREASE TOTAL FITTING INCREASE: 45.5% Moa/Eagle PG: 780 / 875 = 12.2% INCREASE CPU: 360 / 438 = 21.7% INCREASE Sig Radius: 135 / 150 = 11.1% INCREASE Velocity: 175 / 175 = 0% TOTAL FITTING INCREASE: 33.9% Key: Green = Boost Red = Penalty Blue = No Change Gold = Figures of Interest --~-- So, what to conclude? From the figures we can see the Deimos has: [1] The lowest velocity of all the HACs [2] The highest sig-radius of all the HACs [3] The second-lowest increase in fitting of all the HACs One can only assume the idea of increasing the sig radius and lowering the velocity was to counter for the fact that she has an MWD bonus, and as a result will be using it nearly all of the time. Why then, considering the MWD is a fairly extensive piece of equipment to fit, does she have the second-lowest increase in fitting with the lowest being the Ishtar - a ship that benefits from an enormous boost in drone capabilities? The closest comparison is the Vagabond, and whilst it doesn't have the same bonus for the MWD, it does have a lot more velocity, much easier fitting and lower-cap weapons. If the Deimos will be forced into using an MWD then she must be able to fit a loadout around that. Giving her such a small power-grid boost over the Thorax doesn't allow this, hence her being forced to use either Electron Blasters, Electron/Ion mixtures or Ion setups that require a power mod and/or the loss of a utility slot. Save The Deimos
Kunming	Posted - 2006.03.28 16:52:00 - [416] Shameless Bump!.. I dont know why the devs keep ignoring this topic Website Kaos Empire Killboard
Alex Tantra	Posted - 2006.03.28 17:06:00 - [417] +1 Hi-Slot +1 Low-Slot Fitting should reflect this... Show her some wuv!!! _________________________________________________________ omgwtfx0rbbqsauce
MrMorph	Posted - 2006.03.28 17:14:00 - [418] Hi dear CCP devs. /flaming-usless-rant I think its so unfair that someone can actually fit something that can beat my setup and ship. Plz plz plz make Zealots have 99,9% resistances, unlimitied pg,cpu, and a base speed of 9000000m/s. And plzplzplz nerf anyone else, i got killed one time and i dont want that to happen again !!!!! /flaming-useless-rant ---------------------------------------------- No sig due to the 1byte 1 pixel limit.
Harper04	Posted - 2006.03.28 17:57:00 - [419] Originally by: MrMorph Hi dear CCP devs. /flaming-usless-rant I think its so unfair that someone can actually fit something that can beat my setup and ship. Plz plz plz make Zealots have 99,9% resistances, unlimitied pg,cpu, and a base speed of 9000000m/s. And plzplzplz nerf anyone else, i got killed one time and i dont want that to happen again !!!!! /flaming-useless-rant Pretty sure this thread is about deimos's...not zealots . If you're gonna flame, at least get the ship right lol...and thanks for the bump to this topic.
Aramova	Posted - 2006.03.28 19:22:00 - [420] Originally by: Harper04 Originally by: MrMorph Hi dear CCP devs. /flaming-usless-rant I think its so unfair that someone can actually fit something that can beat my setup and ship. Plz plz plz make Zealots have 99,9% resistances, unlimitied pg,cpu, and a base speed of 9000000m/s. And plzplzplz nerf anyone else, i got killed one time and i dont want that to happen again !!!!! /flaming-useless-rant Pretty sure this thread is about deimos's...not zealots . If you're gonna flame, at least get the ship right lol...and thanks for the bump to this topic. No kidding there... ---

Gary Goat	Posted - 2006.03.30 11:36:00 - [421] Bump Devs please read
Kellyl	Posted - 2006.03.30 12:51:00 - [422] Post keeps slipping off the front page :( Up, Up ^^
Techyon	Posted - 2006.03.30 13:08:00 - [423] Edited by: Techyon on 30/03/2006 13:12:35 Originally by: Tuxford Didn't know Deimos needed love but it should be easier to fix after blaster love. No disrespect but do you people even fly ships like the Deimos in 'Tranquility like' combat situations ? And I don't mean a few test... no, some real fights.. I'd assume you do actually test them, but then I'd assume you'd agree with the Deimos needing some love, thus I question it. ------
Miklas Laces	Posted - 2006.03.30 13:24:00 - [424] Some more evidence: Linkage Deimos has the worst radius, the lowest speed, the worst fitting increases from T1 cruiser both in powergrid and cpu, also it's the most cap hungry and has the lowest range.
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.30 14:56:00 - [425] Originally by: Techyon Originally by: Tuxford Didn't know Deimos needed love but it should be easier to fix after blaster love. No disrespect but do you people even fly ships like the Deimos in 'Tranquility like' combat situations ? And I don't mean a few test... no, some real fights.. I'd assume you do actually test them, but then I'd assume you'd agree with the Deimos needing some love, thus I question it. When/where did Tuxford say that? Originally by: Miklas Laces Some more evidence: Linkage Deimos has the worst radius, the lowest speed, the worst fitting increases from T1 cruiser both in powergrid and cpu, also it's the most cap hungry and has the lowest range. Note that in those situations the Deimos is carrying an Afterburner to actually fit the Ion Blasters, and that it doesn't take into account that whilst you're on the approach they're beating the living hell out of you. Save The Deimos
Spartan239	Posted - 2006.03.30 15:02:00 - [426] Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: Techyon Originally by: Tuxford Didn't know Deimos needed love but it should be easier to fix after blaster love. No disrespect but do you people even fly ships like the Deimos in 'Tranquility like' combat situations ? And I don't mean a few test... no, some real fights.. I'd assume you do actually test them, but then I'd assume you'd agree with the Deimos needing some love, thus I question it. When/where did Tuxford say that? Originally by: Miklas Laces Some more evidence: Linkage Deimos has the worst radius, the lowest speed, the worst fitting increases from T1 cruiser both in powergrid and cpu, also it's the most cap hungry and has the lowest range. Note that in those situations the Deimos is carrying an Afterburner to actually fit the Ion Blasters, and that it doesn't take into account that whilst you're on the approach they're beating the living hell out of you. tuxford says: deimos boost and ab on deimos?
Miklas Laces	Posted - 2006.03.30 15:03:00 - [427] Originally by: Dash Ripcock Note that in those situations the Deimos is carrying an Afterburner to actually fit the Ion Blasters, and that it doesn't take into account that whilst you're on the approach they're beating the living hell out of you. I used the AB because I wanted to compare similar setups for all ships. If you want to fit Mwd then you have to drop the Ions and fit Electrons (less damage and shorter range). Or you fit AB and waste 1 ship bonus. Also note that the Deimos is the only hac that have to waste a slot on a RCU to fit standard stuff (well below standard if you want MWD). One thing I don't agree is the complain about Deimos clumsiness. All hacs have the same agility (0.65)
Gariuys	Posted - 2006.03.30 15:07:00 - [428] Originally by: Miklas Laces Originally by: Dash Ripcock Note that in those situations the Deimos is carrying an Afterburner to actually fit the Ion Blasters, and that it doesn't take into account that whilst you're on the approach they're beating the living hell out of you. I used the AB because I wanted to compare similar setups for all ships. If you want to fit Mwd then you have to drop the Ions and fit Electrons (less damage and shorter range). Or you fit AB and waste 1 ship bonus. Also note that the Deimos is the only hac that have to waste a slot on a RCU to fit standard stuff (well below standard if you want MWD). One thing I don't agree is the complain about Deimos clumsiness. All hacs have the same agility (0.65) Yes, but deimos has high mass and low speed, for its role. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Spartan239	Posted - 2006.03.30 15:12:00 - [429] Originally by: Miklas Laces Originally by: Dash Ripcock Note that in those situations the Deimos is carrying an Afterburner to actually fit the Ion Blasters, and that it doesn't take into account that whilst you're on the approach they're beating the living hell out of you. I used the AB because I wanted to compare similar setups for all ships. If you want to fit Mwd then you have to drop the Ions and fit Electrons (less damage and shorter range). Or you fit AB and waste 1 ship bonus. Also note that the Deimos is the only hac that have to waste a slot on a RCU to fit standard stuff (well below standard if you want MWD). One thing I don't agree is the complain about Deimos clumsiness. All hacs have the same agility (0.65) munnin has to do it to, its in the same boat is teh deimos
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.30 15:20:00 - [430] Edited by: Dash Ripcock on 30/03/2006 15:21:56 Originally by: Miklas Laces Originally by: Dash Ripcock Note that in those situations the Deimos is carrying an Afterburner to actually fit the Ion Blasters, and that it doesn't take into account that whilst you're on the approach they're beating the living hell out of you. I used the AB because I wanted to compare similar setups for all ships. If you want to fit Mwd then you have to drop the Ions and fit Electrons (less damage and shorter range). Or you fit AB and waste 1 ship bonus. Also note that the Deimos is the only hac that have to waste a slot on a RCU to fit standard stuff (well below standard if you want MWD). One thing I don't agree is the complain about Deimos clumsiness. All hacs have the same agility (0.65) I'm not criticising the fact you use an Afterburner, I am merely using it as an example to highlight where the ship is lacking. You waste a bonus and a lot of speed so you can use Ion Blaster IIs and a standard tank. Concerning agility - it's the mass and velocity, coupled with signature radius. I know for a fact that my Zealot is faster and as agile as my Deimos with a 1600mm plate fitted. If the Deimos is going to be such a sitting duck on the approach, at least make her maximum velocity and fitting more lenient. P.S. Better yet, just leave her velocity and signature radius the same as a Thorax. The Thorax has the same MWD bonus as the Deimos, so why does the latter receive such a heavy penalty? That's like saying the Vagabond should be slower than a Stabber because of its velocity bonus. Oh wait. Its' not. Save The Deimos

Miklas Laces	Posted - 2006.03.30 15:23:00 - [431] Originally by: Spartan239 munnin has to do it to, its in the same boat is teh deimos No. Deimos needs a RCU to fit its worst turrets (Electron) Muninn can fit the mid ones (220mm) without needing RCU, and still have plenty of unused powergrid.
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.30 15:30:00 - [432] That brings me onto an interesting point. Quote: Special Ability: 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret firing speed per level and 5% bonus to max velocity per level. Stabber Velocity = 235ms Vagabond Velocity = 242ms Quote: Special Ability: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage per level and 5% less penalty to max capacitor for MicroWarpdrive usage per level. Thorax Velocity/Signature Radius = 180/140 Deimos Velocity/Signature Radius = 170/160 So, the Stabber gets a velocity bonus that the Vagabond inherits and improves upon by having a higher velocity. Meanwhile the Thorax and Deimos share the same MWD bonus, yet the Deimos loses velocity and gains signature radius? Why exactly? Why should she penalised over a ship bonus whereby the Vagabond actually boosts it? Save The Deimos
Spartan239	Posted - 2006.03.30 15:32:00 - [433] Originally by: Miklas Laces Originally by: Spartan239 munnin has to do it to, its in the same boat is teh deimos No. Deimos needs a RCU to fit its worst turrets (Electron) Muninn can fit the mid ones (220mm) without needing RCU, and still have plenty of unused powergrid. try 720's 220's on a munnin is like 250's on a deimos
The Cold	Posted - 2006.03.30 15:41:00 - [434] Cry me a river, then give a zealot a drone bay
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.30 15:43:00 - [435] Originally by: The Cold Cry me a river, then give a zealot a drone bay No. Why? Here. Save The Deimos
The Cold	Posted - 2006.03.30 15:55:00 - [436] Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: The Cold Cry me a river, then give a zealot a drone bay No. Why? Here. So you want to dish out +800dps have infinite cap and tank like a mother****** while you're at it?
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.30 16:03:00 - [437] Originally by: The Cold Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: The Cold Cry me a river, then give a zealot a drone bay No. Why? Here. So you want to dish out +800dps have infinite cap and tank like a mother**** while you're at it? Okay, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're not an alt attempting to create flames in a well-established thread. Give me good reason why the Deimos should not be able to fit Ion IIs and have the same agility as the Thorax given all of the statistics mentioned so far. Nobody mentioned anywhere that they wanted the Deimos to have "800dps, infinite cap and tank like a mother***". Save The Deimos
The Cold	Posted - 2006.03.30 16:05:00 - [438] Originally by: Spartan239 Originally by: Miklas Laces Originally by: Spartan239 munnin has to do it to, its in the same boat is teh deimos No. Deimos needs a RCU to fit its worst turrets (Electron) Muninn can fit the mid ones (220mm) without needing RCU, and still have plenty of unused powergrid. try 720's 220's on a munnin is like 250's on a deimos Spartan, i've noticed that 80% people in this thread have no clue whatsoever
The Cold	Posted - 2006.03.30 16:07:00 - [439] Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: The Cold Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: The Cold Cry me a river, then give a zealot a drone bay No. Why? Here. So you want to dish out +800dps have infinite cap and tank like a mother**** while you're at it? Okay, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're not an alt attempting to create flames in a well-established thread. Give me good reason why the Deimos should not be able to fit Ion IIs and have the same agility as the Thorax given all of the statistics mentioned so far. Nobody mentioned anywhere that they wanted the Deimos to have "800dps, infinite cap and tank like a mother***". Because a zealot has 4 turret slots? Oh and that extra armor and t2 components add mass to the ship, but amarr engineers knew how to overcome this
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.30 16:09:00 - [440] Originally by: The Cold Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: The Cold Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: The Cold Cry me a river, then give a zealot a drone bay No. Why? Here. So you want to dish out +800dps have infinite cap and tank like a mother**** while you're at it? Okay, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're not an alt attempting to create flames in a well-established thread. Give me good reason why the Deimos should not be able to fit Ion IIs and have the same agility as the Thorax given all of the statistics mentioned so far. Nobody mentioned anywhere that they wanted the Deimos to have "800dps, infinite cap and tank like a mother***". Because a zealot has 4 turret slots? Oh and that extra armor and t2 components add mass to the ship, but amarr engineers knew how to overcome this Well we agree on one thing - the Gallente scientists who designed the Deimos need to look for new jobs. Save The Deimos

The Cold	Posted - 2006.03.30 16:12:00 - [441] Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: The Cold Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: The Cold Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: The Cold Cry me a river, then give a zealot a drone bay No. Why? Here. So you want to dish out +800dps have infinite cap and tank like a mother**** while you're at it? Okay, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're not an alt attempting to create flames in a well-established thread. Give me good reason why the Deimos should not be able to fit Ion IIs and have the same agility as the Thorax given all of the statistics mentioned so far. Nobody mentioned anywhere that they wanted the Deimos to have "800dps, infinite cap and tank like a mother***". Because a zealot has 4 turret slots? Oh and that extra armor and t2 components add mass to the ship, but amarr engineers knew how to overcome this Well we agree on one thing - the Gallente scientists who designed the Deimos need to look for new jobs. No Regarding the agility/mass/speed thing. the zealot got a speed increase because he lost his dronebay. Enough said.
Miklas Laces	Posted - 2006.03.30 16:37:00 - [442] Originally by: The Cold Cry me a river, then give a zealot a drone bay The Zealot has 1 less turret, but 1 more lowslot for a damage mod. Overall the Zealot has about 30% less dps than the Deimos, but almost double range. But the Zealot can tank a lot better because 1) has a smaller radius 2) it doesnt have to sacrify a low slot for RCU 3) it's A LOT less cap hungry Then there is powergrid. With adv wep upgrades lvl 4: on the Deimos you fit a full rack of Ions, MWD and armor repair. You're left with 10 units of powergrid for the remaining 8 slots. on the Zealot you fit a full rack of Heavy Pulse, AB and armor repairer. You have almost 300 powergrid left.
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.30 16:44:00 - [443] Originally by: The Cold Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: The Cold Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: The Cold Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: The Cold Cry me a river, then give a zealot a drone bay No. Why? Here. So you want to dish out +800dps have infinite cap and tank like a mother**** while you're at it? Okay, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're not an alt attempting to create flames in a well-established thread. Give me good reason why the Deimos should not be able to fit Ion IIs and have the same agility as the Thorax given all of the statistics mentioned so far. Nobody mentioned anywhere that they wanted the Deimos to have "800dps, infinite cap and tank like a mother**". Because a zealot has 4 turret slots? Oh and that extra armor and t2 components add mass to the ship, but amarr engineers knew how to overcome this Well we agree on one thing - the Gallente scientists who designed the Deimos need to look for new jobs. No Regarding the agility/mass/speed thing. the zealot got a speed increase because he lost his dronebay. Enough said. Please read the link I gave initially. The Zealot loses a drone bay (a pretty small one at that), and in turn is faster, tougher, far more powerful and easier to fit than an Omen. In fact, she has so much powergrid that if you don't* use a plate you still have hundreds left over. I have flown the Zealot for nearly as long as I have flown the Deimos, and her lack of drone bay has never been an issue, and her extra velocity makes her more than capable of killing a Deimos before it gets within optimal. In comparison the Deimos has a minute increase in fitting over the Thorax (second-lowest of all the HACs) which inhibits the use of Ion Blasters - a gun that every other blaster ship in the game can fit, as well as being the slowest HAC with the largest signature radius (makes no sense given her role, and the fact that other HACs aren't penalised due to their parent cruisers bonuses whereby the Deimos is). A lot of people in this thread agree and have provided numbers and accounts that verify their arguments. You come here with none, accuse 80% of the repliers of not knowing what they talk about and expect everyone to be convinced. Save The Deimos
Miklas Laces	Posted - 2006.03.30 16:45:00 - [444] Originally by: The Cold So you want to dish out +800dps have infinite cap and tank like a mother****** while you're at it? The thread title is "make deimos easier to fit", not "make deimos uber".
The Cold	Posted - 2006.03.30 18:28:00 - [445] Originally by: Miklas Laces Originally by: The Cold So you want to dish out +800dps have infinite cap and tank like a mother****** while you're at it? The thread title is "make deimos easier to fit", not "make deimos uber". Ok, so people want x5 neutrons t2? an mwd? and no engineering modules? (aka rcu?) maybe a tank? and some mag stabs? Some drones over here and some drones over there. Well that's fine with me, you can dream. It's like giving a retribution a 2nd med slot
Asurix	Posted - 2006.03.30 18:42:00 - [446] i think it wouldn't be more then fair to let the deimos be able to fit 5x ion T2's and a med nosf and an mwd without using power modules, that's all I'll say. ATM if you wanna fit an 800mm plate you need to use electrons with a PDU I think. It's crazy, a zealot can fit an 800mm plate with 4 guns a med rep a med nosf and an AB and no power mods. IMO A Deimos should be able to fit 5 heavy electron II's, a medium nosf, an mwd, a med rep and an 800mm plate without using any power modules
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.30 18:54:00 - [447] Originally by: The Cold Originally by: Miklas Laces Originally by: The Cold So you want to dish out +800dps have infinite cap and tank like a mother****** while you're at it? The thread title is "make deimos easier to fit", not "make deimos uber". Ok, so people want x5 neutrons t2? an mwd? and no engineering modules? (aka rcu?) maybe a tank? and some mag stabs? Some drones over here and some drones over there. Well that's fine with me, you can dream. It's like giving a retribution a 2nd med slot You've obviously read none of the thread. I believe I mention in the first few lines of the original post that we don't want to be able to use Neutrons with a tank, MWD and Nosferatu. As it stands, she can't even fit Ion Blasters without an RCU II. Save The Deimos
Asurix	Posted - 2006.03.30 18:57:00 - [448] Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: The Cold Originally by: Miklas Laces Originally by: The Cold So you want to dish out +800dps have infinite cap and tank like a mother****** while you're at it? The thread title is "make deimos easier to fit", not "make deimos uber". Ok, so people want x5 neutrons t2? an mwd? and no engineering modules? (aka rcu?) maybe a tank? and some mag stabs? Some drones over here and some drones over there. Well that's fine with me, you can dream. It's like giving a retribution a 2nd med slot You've obviously read none of the thread. I believe I mention in the first few lines of the original post that we don't want to be able to use Neutrons with a tank, MWD and Nosferatu. As it stands, she can't even fit Ion Blasters without an RCU II. Well you can fit ions with an mwd and a repper, but nosf or plate? forget it (without RCU, with RCU II you can fit a nosf maybe, gimpiing your setup with the RCU II)
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.30 19:00:00 - [449] Edited by: Dash Ripcock on 30/03/2006 19:00:35 Originally by: Asurix Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: The Cold Originally by: Miklas Laces Originally by: The Cold So you want to dish out +800dps have infinite cap and tank like a mother****** while you're at it? The thread title is "make deimos easier to fit", not "make deimos uber". Ok, so people want x5 neutrons t2? an mwd? and no engineering modules? (aka rcu?) maybe a tank? and some mag stabs? Some drones over here and some drones over there. Well that's fine with me, you can dream. It's like giving a retribution a 2nd med slot You've obviously read none of the thread. I believe I mention in the first few lines of the original post that we don't want to be able to use Neutrons with a tank, MWD and Nosferatu. As it stands, she can't even fit Ion Blasters without an RCU II. Well you can fit ions with an mwd and a repper, but nosf or plate? forget it (without RCU, with RCU II you can fit a nosf maybe, gimpiing your setup with the RCU II) Yeah, as I said before the Deimos should be able to fit a mild tank with Electrons, Ions with damage mods and normal tank (like the Electron fit now) and Neutrons with a plate and some damage mods, perhaps no MWD. As it stands if she wants to fill out her high-slots with Ions and Nos, and have a Med Armour Rep II, she needs an RCU II in the lows. Then she is one low-slot down and very tight on CPU. You can do this with a Taranis or Megathron, and even a Thorax. Why not the Deimos? She's a Tech 2 blaster boat after all. Save The Deimos
Techyon	Posted - 2006.03.30 23:41:00 - [450] Edited by: Techyon on 30/03/2006 23:41:47 Edited by: Techyon on 30/03/2006 23:41:24 Any noobish alt can in the future shut up about us wanting the Deimos to be uber damage or tank wise. Why ? The only thing we're asking for is agility/fitting boost. Blaster do some serious damage once you're in range, if you know how to handle transversal velocity etc. The Deimos can do some nice damage, the problem is bringing the damage to the enemies' hull and not getting pounded to dust in the same time, which is what we are trying to improve by this thread. Tanking ? well the Deimos has a pretty nice tank already imo, it doesn't have the cap to sustain it at all with other modules running, a tad more cap would be welcome.. but I think we all agree the Deimos isn't a tank ship, its a Gank ship. Thus its somewhat logical that the Deimos hasn't got the cap to infitank, if the blaster cap usage is lowered it should give the Deimos some breathing space capwise. You'll still be tight but the Deimos really isn't ment for tanking, just need enough cap for you opponent to die, and hope you can recover before the next opponent. ------

Gary Goat	Posted - 2006.03.31 15:53:00 - [451] Edited by: Gary Goat on 31/03/2006 15:54:47 Edited by: Gary Goat on 31/03/2006 15:54:07 Quote: Ok, so people want x5 neutrons t2? an mwd? and no engineering modules? (aka rcu?) maybe a tank? and some mag stabs? Some drones over here and some drones over there. Well that's fine with me, you can dream. It's like giving a retribution a 2nd med slot Hello Mr Clueless. Nobody ever said that we want to be able to do that now did we Lets try and fit the deimos for a gank setup using neutrons as it currently is. Why dont you open up quickfit and u can try this. All modules will be T2 where avalible as its a t2 ship. Ok we'll start with the guns first as we want a gank setup. Neutrons are the clear choice for damage so lets fit them. Hmmm when you try to fit the 5th neutron, you get a message saying not enough powergrid. Right then stick an RCU II in the lows and you've got the guns on. We'll leave the last hi for the end and fit what we can with remaining grid\cpu. Now for the mids, we'll need a mwd to get into range and to take advantage of the ships bonus. "Not enough powergrid to fit module." Another RCU later and we have the mwd on. Webber and scrambler would be best for the remaining 2. So on to the low slots. 2 Are taken up already with RCU's but we still have 4 left. 3 damage mods and a repairer sounds good. Try to fit the repairer and again "not enough powergrid to fit module." So you stick on a PDU II and you have the repairer on. Wow half of your low slots are used up on fitting mods, only room left for 2 damage mods. Dont think you'll be ganking much with that. I dont fly a zealot but i'm going to try to fit one with a gank setup. I'll use heavy pulse's in the high's as there the highest damaging guns. Wow i can get a full rack on and i still have over 500 pg left. On to the med slots, I'll use a MWD, webber and scrambler just like the deimos to make it fair. With the range of pulse's an ab is a far better choice. Wow i can also fit a mwd webber and scrambler and i still have over 300pg left. No fitting mod yet. Low slots. Well lets stick with the plan of 3 damage mods and a repairer. Hmm they all fit on as well and i still have 3 lows to play with. As this is a gank fittined i'll go for a 4th damage mod. 2 More slots left. CPU is a bit tight now. I'll fill it with a T2 thermal hardner and a co processor. For fairness i used a mwd in that setup but in reality i would use an afterburner which would allow me to drop the co-processor for an 800mm plate and an energized thermal plate! No fitting mods required at all! Devs please read
Iron Wraith	Posted - 2006.03.31 16:03:00 - [452] eee gads bwain! think i'll stick to my mega. gal cruiser lvl5 can stay on the back burner for now. still i have a vigilant, now thats a good blaster boat, cheaper than the deimos too 4th mid slot for ecm or cap booster . now if only it had t2 resists..... Because sometimes you just have to go back to your roots: [2005.02.20 01:08:03] (combat) Your Civilian Light Electron Blaster perfectly strikes Serpentis Smuggler, wrecking for 20.3 damage.
Gary Goat	Posted - 2006.04.01 14:31:00 - [453] bump Devs please read
Denrace	Posted - 2006.04.01 14:45:00 - [454] I do not see how you can complain about a ship that does the most DPS in its class. There are loads of ships which are a pain in the ass to fit. Ever heard of a RCU II? Deimos needs no love whatsoever. If I see a Deimos MWD-ing or AB-ing towards me I know full well I am in for a world of hurt. The pant-stain-inducing ability that the sheer herculean amount of DPS this ship can dish out simply overshadows some insignificantly slight fitting problem. And who cares about 10m/s difference? In the grand scheme of things this makes a negligible impact on the performace of a Deimos. You ever tried fitting the 6th high slot of a Cerberus with anything useful? Den ________________________________________ Sig Gallery
Porro	Posted - 2006.04.01 15:10:00 - [455] It's all well and good doing x dps more than something else, but if you get webbed, target dies because you couldn't get into range or you get webbed, you're useless. I guess what the zealot etc lack in raw firepower they make up with versatility. Isn't it a bid weird that the ship that needs the most speed and agility handles like a brick? :P ---------------------------------------------------- (22:01:14) (Sangxianc) you, porro, have madder skillzors than i, sang, do
Techyon	Posted - 2006.04.01 15:14:00 - [456] Most DPS in its class... yes it does. But it dies quickly. And unfortunately here we come to the biggest problem besides fitting : handling(speed/agility/sig rad). You need to get to your opponent quickly not to be melted while approaching with a sig almost twice the size of a battleship.... you fail to grasp that point. other than that the "once you're in range you take almost no dmg bla bla blß" doesn't go that often. webs/gun tracking do a pretty good job at hitting you even when you are close, unless you are engaging a long range battleship or short range one without web. I'm not denying that once the Deimos is at her optimal range you're in for a world of hurt, however most of the times you don't have enough armor, etc. left to hold out long enough for you uber damage to make up for being pounded all the way on the approach.... Granted, you'll be having a big problem if you uncloaok within 10k of a Deimos, but you still have a chance, especially if it starts at around 6-10k and you have the sense to immediately web(you will be ****** without one) and move away. The Deimos will need to MWD to get in closer, it will only do about 75-50% of its total DPS potential in the 6k-10k range with AM and Ion II's which are most regularly used. Besides even as slight a speed boost as 10 m/s is better than nothing don't you think ? so as to make the approach that little bit faster. ------
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.04.02 02:06:00 - [457] Originally by: Denrace I do not see how you can complain about a ship that does the most DPS in its class. There are loads of ships which are a pain in the ass to fit. Ever heard of a RCU II? Deimos needs no love whatsoever. If I see a Deimos MWD-ing or AB-ing towards me I know full well I am in for a world of hurt. The pant-stain-inducing ability that the sheer herculean amount of DPS this ship can dish out simply overshadows some insignificantly slight fitting problem. And who cares about 10m/s difference? In the grand scheme of things this makes a negligible impact on the performace of a Deimos. You ever tried fitting the 6th high slot of a Cerberus with anything useful? Den DPS means nothing if you don't have the means to deliver it. I have a weapon system called a Deimos that allows me to deliver high amounts of damage to a target, but because I can't fit Ions without losing a low or a high slot I use Electrons, so my effective range isn't much more than 7.5Km. Now, this Deimos is a Tech 2 version of a Tech 1 blaster-based cruiser, so it specialises and improves upon its role correct? Wrong. It's slower and it has a higher signature radius, making the approach even deadlier. Coupled together, I have a ship that needs to be exceptionally close to a target to do the damage it needs to survive, yet is penalised so heavily concerning the approach compared with the Tech 1 version that I begin to question its worth as a Tech 2 ship. Please read the thread again. The Deimos has the second-lowest increase in fitting, it is the slowest HAC and it has the largest signature radius. It is the only HAC that is penalised in accordance to its inherent bonus. The other ships embrace their heritage. So should the Deimos. Instead she's crippled by penalty upon penalty until there is little worth in flying her. Save The Deimos
The Cold	Posted - 2006.04.02 02:07:00 - [458] 2 words: faction webs.
Gary Goat	Posted - 2006.04.02 02:26:00 - [459] Quote: 2 words: faction webs. Wow you've changed my whole view on the deimos with them 2 words. What a brilliant and well thought out argument So i should have to shell out fortunes for faction gear just to make my ship competitive in pvp? And if you really think about it, i doubt it would help much at all. Devs please read
ThunderGodThor	Posted - 2006.04.02 03:09:00 - [460] Originally by: Gary Goat Quote: 2 words: faction webs. Wow you've changed my whole view on the deimos with them 2 words. What a brilliant and well thought out argument So i should have to shell out fortunes for faction gear just to make my ship competitive in pvp? And if you really think about it, i doubt it would help much at all. Agreed. One other thing is theorical DPS means jack if you cant get to the target. There is also that patch what was it ... Oh ya RMR that changed how tanking works and made it a lot better and that every one has a tank. Even with the max theorical DPS it can still be pretty hard to break a tanked BS which most of them are now DUH.

Spartan239	Posted - 2006.04.02 08:39:00 - [461] Originally by: Gary Goat Quote: 2 words: faction webs. Wow you've changed my whole view on the deimos with them 2 words. What a brilliant and well thought out argument So i should have to shell out fortunes for faction gear just to make my ship competitive in pvp? And if you really think about it, i doubt it would help much at all. I fail to see how faction webs would help a domi web saves me 2 cpu compared to the web with the lowest cpu, and how does 2 cpu help me fit ions over electrons, or get in range?
Negative Nancy	Posted - 2006.04.02 09:04:00 - [462] Well, another point...Having a larger sig. radius than the Thorax is just stupid...They should have the same exterior dimensions...correct? Signature radius should not depend on mass, but on exterior area and shape...look at the radar signature of a stealth bomber compared to...lets say a semi-truck. F-117 weight about 52,000lbs. An empty semi-truck weighs far less (maximum loaded weight limit in the US is 80,000 lbs.) yet, regardless of how much cargo is in the truck, it still has a much larger radar signature.
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.04.02 09:55:00 - [463] Originally by: The Cold 2 words: faction webs. As an interesting note, faction webs and officer webs tend to add a lot to web range. The question is, what happens if the opponent also uses these top notch items? If I can use them on my short range ship to make a good setup, the "enemy" can, too. The only difference is that if I need faction items to make my setup good, the generic enemy ship can use faction items to make his ship become great by comparison. In the special case of the webifier, the situation is put on it's head because a good webification range is better as a defence against short range ships than it is as an offence for short range ships. To webify an opponent you ensure that his speed is reduced and you arrive faster - but that is only assuming he actualy has the modules and speed capacity to actually run away. In a Deimos you'll often be traveling 5 times as fast as your opponent (6 times if it's a battleship), so the question is "do I really need to web him from 15km instead of my normal 10km?". When it comes to the enemy fitting a faction webifier, the pain is that you'll be hampered 5km earlier or more. In a Deimos you need to get within 10km (at this distance you can't orbit unless you use Null ammo). Traversing 5km where you do no damage is painful enough, but if the enemy web you at this distance you'll be in for a hurting - signature of a moon and speed of an indy is not a good combination. If the ship fitting a faction webbifier is a Minmatar cruiser or battleship, then you are really in for pain since both are faster than you and can hit you plenty well at 15km where you cannot really fight back. So, yes, faction webifier is another argument speaking against the Deimos. You are correct, sir. Originally by: KilROCK Originally by: Arkanor Gallente missileboat might be cool. Pod yourself till you got no skills.[
Evil Thug	Posted - 2006.04.02 10:26:00 - [464] Deimos is flying coffin atm. I`ve got load of headache, when tryed to fit it. If you are going to high damage output - you are simple unable to tank. When i`m buying HAC for 150+ kk, i dont want to be finished with 1 salvo of tempest. If you are going to tank, (electrons + plate + resists) - your agility will be too low, and dot - simply pathetic. Most intresting thing - that pilot, flying deimos, is potentially deadman. Because to dish this dps you`ll need to get in web range. On the other hand. Corpm8 of mine flew vaga, and deimos landed 3km from him. He managed to warpout with 75% armor (7k shield 4tw). Solution ? Its difficult. Because its involving blaster problem with all gall ships. Personally, i think, that decreasing mass, and adding 10 - 20 m\s will do fine. ----------------------------------------------- Logged in a system, next to you =)
Crellion	Posted - 2006.04.02 11:22:00 - [465] Originally by: Evil Thug Deimos is flying coffin atm. I`ve got load of headache, when tryed to fit it. If you are going to high damage output - you are simple unable to tank. When i`m buying HAC for 150+ kk, i dont want to be finished with 1 salvo of tempest. If you are going to tank, (electrons + plate + resists) - your agility will be too low, and dot - simply pathetic. Most intresting thing - that pilot, flying deimos, is potentially deadman. Because to dish this dps you`ll need to get in web range. On the other hand. Corpm8 of mine flew vaga, and deimos landed 3km from him. He managed to warpout with 75% armor (7k shield 4tw). Solution ? Its difficult. Because its involving blaster problem with all gall ships. Personally, i think, that decreasing mass, and adding 10 - 20 m\s will do fine. When I am obliged to agree with Evil Thug publicly then Devs should know that the ** has really hit the *. Its not a Deimos issue though. Its a gallente with blaster v Minmattar a/cs thing... Any sane society, in the knowelledge that they have not got the faster ships would not fit the smallest range guns on them. Gallente do in this game... and thats suicide against same class ships... Gallente ships need to become much fatster (by mass reduction) with mods active or the dmg of blasters needs to become insane to justify the insanity of flyinh their flying coffins. Thorax Deimos Bthron they are fast for a while.... if they lose the fight they die cause at that stage there is no cap left to mwd away... wihout mwd you cant even run away from a webbed BS in time (seeing as youwere fighting at 500ms)... Meh I am just repeating myself in desperation...
LUKEC	Posted - 2006.04.02 11:29:00 - [466] Originally by: Denrace I do not see how you can complain about a ship that does the most DPS in its class. There are loads of ships which are a pain in the ass to fit. Ever heard of a RCU II? Deimos needs no love whatsoever. If I see a Deimos MWD-ing or AB-ing towards me I know full well I am in for a world of hurt. The pant-stain-inducing ability that the sheer herculean amount of DPS this ship can dish out simply overshadows some insignificantly slight fitting problem. And who cares about 10m/s difference? In the grand scheme of things this makes a negligible impact on the performace of a Deimos. You ever tried fitting the 6th high slot of a Cerberus with anything useful? Den My recent encounters with deimos: 1. tought: look, someone is actually still trying to pvp in blaster deimos 2. tought: he won't do it again, let's teach him an expensive lesson 3. tought: how can he be dead already? Deimos is no better than thorax. 5x electrons II and 800mm plate on thorax work like 20% worse than on deimos, which is still enough, and they don't percieve any threat. However the price is like 10%. On the other hand: deimos is like 300pg and 50 cpu short. Also 50m/s speed increase would really help. (still much slower than vagabond) Die, die, die.
Techyon	Posted - 2006.04.02 12:07:00 - [467] Crellion brought up a nice opint ofcourse... Why would any race that knows they're not the fastest on the field fit uber-short range weapons ? its practicaly suicide. Logically a race would only fit these weapon systems if they were either fast enough to bring it or have enough range to offset scramble range. (neither are true for the Deimos) Even if the Deimos has the speed to bring the damage fast its still extremely dangerous to need to venture within webrange, especially with the Deimos' vulnerable cap(usage). The ever lasting argument of non Deimos users is 'It has the highest DPS of all hacs!11!1!1' problem is it doesn't mean a f*cking thing unless you land somewhere withing webrange of your enemy, you won't be able to bring it anyway. Another thing is that other HACs have some pretty nice DPS values aswell and they're doing it at a decent range, and some of them can have a tank going at the same time. We're coming down to saying exactly the same all the time in this topic now.... Devs we need an awnser, with so many good arguments.... isn't it atleast worth some investigation ? or atleast a response, so I atleast now wether to cry and leave my lovely Deimos in the hanger where it resides most of the times because my Ishtar is preferable or to rejoice and await a solution ? ------
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.04.02 17:09:00 - [468] The point about using short range weapons walking hand in hand with high speed and agility is almost too simple a concept. It can't be right, can it? Think about strategy games - in order to achieve balance, high damage weaponry must have a limit, and in turn something to counter that limit to make it effective and balanced. High damage means short range which means high speed. You either manage to kill it whilst it's coming towards you, or you cross your fingers and hope for the best. The idea with the Deimos is that it uses an MWD exclusively due to its bonuses. You can understand the Devs deciding, "Well, she has the Powergrid and Capacitor to use one all the time, so let's penalise her speed and signature radius in order to achieve balance". This doesn't work, not when the other HACs all take their inherent roles further than the Tech 1 equivalent. You can't make a ship close-range, then heap penalty upon penalty upon it so that achieving that range is impossible. The Vagabond has a speed bonus, and its faster than the Stabber. If you take the MWD situation with the Deimos and apply it to the Vagabond, you'd make her even slower. The Deimos is suppose to be the king of close-range cruiser combat. Instead she's a joke. Ever wondered why you see so few of them these days flying alone without a squad to back them up? Save The Deimos
Gary Goat	Posted - 2006.04.03 23:48:00 - [469] How is the deimos with null? I havent tested it but it should be able to hit out to 15k or so if you include falloff right? Anybody used it in pvp and does it make a difference at all? Devs please read
Harper04	Posted - 2006.04.04 00:38:00 - [470] Originally by: Gary Goat How is the deimos with null? I havent tested it but it should be able to hit out to 15k or so if you include falloff right? Anybody used it in pvp and does it make a difference at all? Deimos w/null is extremely sexy, seeing that it increases your hitting range beyond webbing range (though still not great hits). I ALWAYS pvp with null fitted, due to the range increase with similar damage to antimatter. Fit this, and hitting while webbed at 10km is still a problem, but not nearly an unwinnable one. I managed to pop a completely t2 fitted zealot staying at 7-8km the whole fight, HOWEVER I was also fitted with a completely corpum tank with a setup worth well over a bil, which still had issues with grid (but not cpu thankfully) . I view the increase in range of null to make it more worthwhile than antimatter or void, because if you're webbed by another HAC with those loaded in your blasters, and they can keep you at the edge of web range, you're prolly screwed. Hitting those extra few seconds sooner into the fight can be extremely valuable also IMO.

Zysco	Posted - 2006.04.04 00:49:00 - [471] Originally by: LUKEC Originally by: Denrace I do not see how you can complain about a ship that does the most DPS in its class. There are loads of ships which are a pain in the ass to fit. Ever heard of a RCU II? Deimos needs no love whatsoever. If I see a Deimos MWD-ing or AB-ing towards me I know full well I am in for a world of hurt. The pant-stain-inducing ability that the sheer herculean amount of DPS this ship can dish out simply overshadows some insignificantly slight fitting problem. And who cares about 10m/s difference? In the grand scheme of things this makes a negligible impact on the performace of a Deimos. You ever tried fitting the 6th high slot of a Cerberus with anything useful? Den My recent encounters with deimos: 1. tought: look, someone is actually still trying to pvp in blaster deimos 2. tought: he won't do it again, let's teach him an expensive lesson 3. tought: how can he be dead already? Deimos is no better than thorax. 5x electrons II and 800mm plate on thorax work like 20% worse than on deimos, which is still enough, and they don't percieve any threat. However the price is like 10%. On the other hand: deimos is like 300pg and 50 cpu short. Also 50m/s speed increase would really help. (still much slower than vagabond) Yeah its the same thing comparing a rupture to a muninn. Rupture does 20% less dps but costs 10% as much.
Harper04	Posted - 2006.04.04 01:39:00 - [472] Originally by: Zysco Originally by: LUKEC Originally by: Denrace I do not see how you can complain about a ship that does the most DPS in its class. There are loads of ships which are a pain in the ass to fit. Ever heard of a RCU II? Deimos needs no love whatsoever. If I see a Deimos MWD-ing or AB-ing towards me I know full well I am in for a world of hurt. The pant-stain-inducing ability that the sheer herculean amount of DPS this ship can dish out simply overshadows some insignificantly slight fitting problem. And who cares about 10m/s difference? In the grand scheme of things this makes a negligible impact on the performace of a Deimos. You ever tried fitting the 6th high slot of a Cerberus with anything useful? Den My recent encounters with deimos: 1. tought: look, someone is actually still trying to pvp in blaster deimos 2. tought: he won't do it again, let's teach him an expensive lesson 3. tought: how can he be dead already? Deimos is no better than thorax. 5x electrons II and 800mm plate on thorax work like 20% worse than on deimos, which is still enough, and they don't percieve any threat. However the price is like 10%. On the other hand: deimos is like 300pg and 50 cpu short. Also 50m/s speed increase would really help. (still much slower than vagabond) Yeah its the same thing comparing a rupture to a muninn. Rupture does 20% less dps but costs 10% as much. I've seen many Muninns used in thier sniping role to great effect using just everyday t2 mods. Deimos's role is extreme close-range, and they often get spanked unless you fit faction/officer mods OR get lucky, or both, to ships that have more medium range roles. Keep pricetags out of this discussion. The tech 2 market is borked as a whole, esp HACs, and not just one of them either. This is about giving the deimos the ability to live up to what it's supposed to be, aka the blaster ship...if she could live up to that without me having to fit faction mods to take on other simply t2 fitted ships when warping in within 15km, I'd gladly pay the price compared to right now.
Denrace	Posted - 2006.04.04 12:32:00 - [473] Ok think about it this way: Deimos is an advanced, expensive and skill intensive ship geared for PVP use by more experienced players, right? Good, glad we cleared that up. Now, the Deimos DOES do insane damage, regardless of the "If i fit for damage I cant tank" argument. And in PVP, most engagement will take p[lace at stargates in a 15km radius accounting for jump-in and jump-out points. Surely a Deimos pilot can be effective within 15km if he has an AB fitted and webber drones. I get the feeling the Deimos pilots want their ship to an OMGWTFBBQ solo pwnmobile, which it clearly is not (range issues raised here) so why can't you use the Ishtar instead for this? Use the Deimos for what it is best at: Providing a substantial amount of firepower in gangs that is more mobile than most BS (since its DPS is on par with battleships). Just fit some RCU II's and some Neutron blasters and sit on top of gates. Its an MMO remember, and HACs are best suited for gang use. Thats just what I think of the ship, not being nasty or anything Den ________________________________________
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.04.04 13:00:00 - [474] Originally by: Denrace <snipped to conserve space> On damage: The Deimos doesn't do insane damage unless you put it in relation to frigates, or if you've got a slightly skewed way of definining "insane amount". It does good damage compared to it's peers, where the scale of damage goes from around 300 dps to around 700 dps, with the Deimos placing in top end only in extremely favourable conditions. On engagement range: You are refering to gate pvp, where you jump in on people or people jump in on you. This is very different from station-pvp, manouvered-pvp (two people trying to engage on their own conditions), and support-pvp (fleet support or small fleet battles). On avarage, the mentioned combats tend to start above 20km up to around 100km, depending on how cowardly the enemy is or on what side of the station you warp in on. As for gates, if we use 0.0 gates as example, they are around 7km in diameter, meaning combat tend to start between 12km to 25km away from you, depending on what side of the gate the enemy is sitting at 0m. If you are chasing after someone, combat is more likely to start 30km away from you. It's situational, but 15km is often enough to kill a Deimos before it enters a stable orbit. If he's got an AB, he's much too slow, however. Webbifier doesn't matter, you need to get inside the enemy tracking and inside your own scrambling (a WHOLE different topic, but suffice to say 3 mid slots is NOT enough these days). On OMGWTFBBQ: Anyone feeling strongly for their own ship (type) get this feeling when others talk about what THEIR ship is lacking. On what the Deimos does best: Interestingly enough, the "supportive firepower" aspect is done, to a large extent, much better by a Zealot because the Zealot has neglible (in the circumstances) less dps at an extremely wider range scale (much better tracking per optimal) and at longer max potential range. It also tanks better. On "just fitting fitting modules": These arguments would hold water if there was more difference between the different weapon classes and if the potential tank slot you lost wasn't so important. Fitting modules are considered weaker modules than many other modules, mostly because, in the case of blasters, ions with a damage mod do more damage (with better tracking and more spare grid and possibly cpu for the other slots) than neutrons with an RCU. On being nasty: Well, if you read it as being confrontational with you personally, I didn't mean it that way. I know you feel strongly for the Nighthawk and other missile ships (iirc), but that one ship needs fixing doesn't mean all others need to get in line and preferably a lot longer back in line. Originally by: KilROCK Originally by: Arkanor Gallente missileboat might be cool. Pod yourself till you got no skills.[
Gariuys	Posted - 2006.04.04 13:10:00 - [475] Next time, put the advice to fit RCUs and Neutrons at the top of our post so I won't bother reading it. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.04.04 13:24:00 - [476] I think Ithildin hit the nail on the head concerning the ranges. Neutrons and power mods? Why should a ship be completely hopeless in any situation bar starting on top of a target or being in a gang? I can solo in my other HACs quite nicely, the Deimos should be the same. As it stands her lack of agility and her inability to hit hard enough at the ranges that count make her the laughing stock of HACs. You can't possible look at the figures given and summarise that she is balanced, and that her supposedly Godlike DPS will resolve any situation. Save The Deimos
Theron Gyrow	Posted - 2006.04.04 13:38:00 - [477] Originally by: Denrace Just fit some RCU II's and some Neutron blasters and sit on top of gates. Ok, let's try that and compare the result with Zealot. Deimos pretty much has to use Null to start doing damage fast enough. With same amount of dam mods, Zealot+MF vs Deimos+Null => Deimos does about 25% more damage if it gets to its optimal and tracks equally well there. Of course, with two RCU 2s in low slots, Deimos will have fewer dam mods, so the damage is about the same. With null, Deimos's effective range (at 1/2 falloff) is about 11.5km and the transversal of a 125-sig radius target needs to be 1436 m/s to reduce the damage by 50%. With MF, Zealot's effective range (at 1/2 falloff) is 18.25km and the transversal needs to be 1482 m/s. With conflagration, the transversal drops to half of listed, but the damage increases to match the Deimos's. Well, Deimos has 0.2% advantage, but that is supposing similar numbers of dam mods. With 1 dam mod vs 3, Zealot does 35% more damage. With Scorch, Zealot gets a nice 50km optimal. Read that again. Five times the effective range of Deimos. If Deimos fits one dam mod and Zealot three, Deimos gets about 1.5% better DoT in exchange. Whoop-de-doo. To finish the comparison, Zealot is 25% faster, a bit lighter, uses just 61% of its grid and 27% of its CPU to fit its guns (Deimos: 98.8% grid, 32% CPU), uses 18% less cap to fire its guns AND has 9% more cap. It also has one more low slot so it will tank better (plus of course the two other low slots it doesn't need to use for RCUs). The number of other free slots is the same. Does the Deimos's 50m3 drone bay really compensate for all this? -- Gradient's forum
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.04.04 13:51:00 - [478] Originally by: Gariuys Next time, put the advice to fit RCUs and Neutrons at the top of our post so I won't bother reading it. That implying that I am wrong, right? Well, put it this way. The basic fitting is: 5x Turrets 1x Missing (see below) 10mn MWD II Fleeting 20km Fleeting Web Medium Armor Rep II 2x Magnetic Field II 3x Missing (see below) With 5 Ion Blaster II. DPS: ~320 Missing low slots: room for CPRs as well as one or two hardeners (active versus passive). Missing high slot: if one of the low slots is fitted with an a powergrid enhancer, you can fit a medium nosferatu. Extra notes: none. With 5 Neutron Blaster II DPS: ~341 Missing low slots: two of the slots must be taken by RCU IIs and the third must be CPU-light. Missing high slot: Possibly enough for a small nosferatu Extra notes: With Adv. Weapon Upg. IV, this setup (with one empty low slot) is missing 5.3 powergrid - Adv. Weapon Upg. V is necessary. Take note! These fittings acquired using Quick Fit and my own skills. I make a note on Adv. Weap. Upg. since my main doesn't have this skill. Ammo used is Antimatter Charge M, and drones used are NONE. DPS is noted in avarage ((shield dps + armor dps + hull dps) / 3) when shooting at a Thorax - and not counting tracking at all. Why not a standard raw comparison? 1. To illustrate the "godlike" dps for others and 2. it's a comparison where both skill base and ship is exactly the same so it doesn't matter And finally This is not changing fitting so that the Ion Blaster setup has more damage mods! Originally by: KilROCK Originally by: Arkanor Gallente missileboat might be cool. Pod yourself till you got no skills.[
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.04.04 14:07:00 - [479] Originally by: Ithildin Edited by: Ithildin on 04/04/2006 14:04:00 Originally by: Gariuys Next time, put the advice to fit RCUs and Neutrons at the top of our post so I won't bother reading it. That implying that I am wrong, right? I think he was speaking to Denrace mate! Gariuys is very much on the 'Save The Deimos' side of the fence. Save The Deimos
Gariuys	Posted - 2006.04.04 14:53:00 - [480] Sorry Ithildin, but you posted in between me writing the reply and hitting the post button. Went for a smoke in the meantime. Was aimed at denrace. Believe me, I'm on the deimos could use some improvement side of the fence. ( dedicated deimos pilot here, for a long long time now, flew one of the very first built, and haven't flown anything else since. ) ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool

DeathWarrior	Posted - 2006.04.04 15:02:00 - [481] HIGH-SLOTS : ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > [ 145 \| 27] Heavy Ion Blaster II > [ 145 \| 27] Heavy Ion Blaster II > [ 145 \| 27] Heavy Ion Blaster II > [ 145 \| 27] Heavy Ion Blaster II > [ 145 \| 27] Heavy Ion Blaster II > [ 9 \| 15] Small Diminishing Power System Drain I MED-SLOTS : ~~~~~~~~~~~ > [ 150 \| 50] Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive > [ 1 \| 22] Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I > [ 1 \| 24] Faint Epsilon Warp Prohibitor I LOW-SLOTS : ~~~~~~~~~~~ > [ 173 \| 28] Medium Armor Repairer II > [ 2 \| 30] Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II > [ 2 \| 30] Energized Reactive Membrane II > [ 1 \| 30] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II > [ 1 \| 30] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II > [ 0 \| 2] Local Power Plant Manager: Capacity Power Relay I This setup gives you a decent tank + damage .. you may not be able to tank for long but it balances out between damage/tank ability. I use Null and it seems to work fine.
MOS DEF	Posted - 2006.04.04 15:10:00 - [482] Pretty funny that the cheapest deimos on market is 165 mill right now. If the ship would onlybe half as ****ty as the constant whining in here makes one think i'd buy one for 80 mill now and be one happy camper.
Theron Gyrow	Posted - 2006.04.04 17:45:00 - [483] Originally by: MOS DEF Pretty funny that the cheapest deimos on market is 165 mill right now. If the ship would onlybe half as ****ty as the constant whining in here makes one think i'd buy one for 80 mill now and be one happy camper. The bonuses do look nifty and people don't often crunch the numbers. -- Gradient's forum
Harper04	Posted - 2006.04.04 18:59:00 - [484] Originally by: Asurix Originally by: DeathWarrior HIGH-SLOTS : ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > [ 145 \| 27] Heavy Ion Blaster II > [ 145 \| 27] Heavy Ion Blaster II > [ 145 \| 27] Heavy Ion Blaster II > [ 145 \| 27] Heavy Ion Blaster II > [ 145 \| 27] Heavy Ion Blaster II > [ 9 \| 15] Small Diminishing Power System Drain I MED-SLOTS : ~~~~~~~~~~~ > [ 150 \| 50] Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive > [ 1 \| 22] Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I > [ 1 \| 24] Faint Epsilon Warp Prohibitor I LOW-SLOTS : ~~~~~~~~~~~ > [ 173 \| 28] Medium Armor Repairer II > [ 2 \| 30] Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II > [ 2 \| 30] Energized Reactive Membrane II > [ 1 \| 30] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II > [ 1 \| 30] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II > [ 0 \| 2] Local Power Plant Manager: Capacity Power Relay I This setup gives you a decent tank + damage .. you may not be able to tank for long but it balances out between damage/tank ability. I use Null and it seems to work fine. I have the same but switched 1 mag stab for a 2nd nano II, tank is so fragile.... Almost exactly my setup, cept I swap the cap relay for another nano instead. Mine has some faction mods to keep the cpu usage down. Gotta finish fights fast though to make sure cap isn't as much of an issue.
Gariuys	Posted - 2006.04.04 20:56:00 - [485] Originally by: DeathWarrior HIGH-SLOTS : ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > [ 145 \| 27] Heavy Ion Blaster II > [ 145 \| 27] Heavy Ion Blaster II > [ 145 \| 27] Heavy Ion Blaster II > [ 145 \| 27] Heavy Ion Blaster II > [ 145 \| 27] Heavy Ion Blaster II > [ 9 \| 15] Small Diminishing Power System Drain I MED-SLOTS : ~~~~~~~~~~~ > [ 150 \| 50] Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive > [ 1 \| 22] Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I > [ 1 \| 24] Faint Epsilon Warp Prohibitor I LOW-SLOTS : ~~~~~~~~~~~ > [ 173 \| 28] Medium Armor Repairer II > [ 2 \| 30] Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II > [ 2 \| 30] Energized Reactive Membrane II > [ 1 \| 30] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II > [ 1 \| 30] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II > [ 0 \| 2] Local Power Plant Manager: Capacity Power Relay I This setup gives you a decent tank + damage .. you may not be able to tank for long but it balances out between damage/tank ability. I use Null and it seems to work fine. Just a note, RCU+med nos, if you can get it to fit cpu wise, is a better choice. over the relay and small nos IMHO. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Gariuys	Posted - 2006.04.04 21:03:00 - [486] Originally by: MOS DEF Pretty funny that the cheapest deimos on market is 165 mill right now. If the ship would onlybe half as ****ty as the constant whining in here makes one think i'd buy one for 80 mill now and be one happy camper. There are a lot of cruiser pilots that appreciate the thorax, cause it's a good ship for it's class, and even though it lost it's main selling point. It's still recommended a lot. Deimos is the natural progression from the thorax. Other point is the quite true fact that finding a platform that is equally mobile or more so then a deimos with the same dps is gonna be a challenge. It's not like it doesn't have it's uses, it most certainly does. But it's quite limited, and it's not as superior at close combat as you would expect a gallente cruiser to be. ( translation it gets ass wooped by every other short range HAC setup there is ) And yes there is the isthar ( saw someone else comment on it ) But I don't want an ishtar, not that I'm not effective in one quite the contrary but I want my close range knife fighting blaster totting baby to be more lethal then high dps isk sink ( for my wallet anyway ) that gets blown to pieces before it even fires a shot, or runs out of cap long before the enemies tank breaks. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Dreez	Posted - 2006.04.05 17:01:00 - [487] Im concidering to buy a Diemos or Ishtar soon. But how come that the Diemos which is built for CQC just as much as the Vagabond, is SO much slower . I obviosly have no experience from flying HACs as stated above, so i cant really tell if the Vaga handles "like a figate" and are that much faster. But if that is the case, why is it so ?. If you (the shipcontructors) make plans for a new t2ship, and you "know" it will be used mainly with blasters, why wont you make efforts in making in fast and agile enough to make up for the shortrange. I¦ve seen Vagas in action, and they are infact, like greased lighting, compared to other ships their size. I¦ve seen Vagas warp out from JIP-Camp with combatfittings before the friggs could scramble it. And i cant really tell about the problems with fittings, but its obvious that the speed needs a boost. Current Location: After chasing TomB for 2 years, at the pub, getting a cold beer.
Sarmaul 2	Posted - 2006.04.06 12:31:00 - [488] while your at it, make the muninn easier to fit too. it's impossible to fit 5 720mm IIs on a ship designed for sniping (it has an optimal range bonus, which is usless for autocannons). 720mm II x 5 with maxed skills: 1377.5pg Muninn with maxed skills: 1187.5pg. With guns, -190pg left Muninn with one RCU II: 1365.63. With guns, +128.13 left So you need to fit 2 RCU IIs in order to fit a cruiser rep on the thing, leaving you with bugger all powergrid for everything else (2 highs, 3 mids and 2 lows to fill with approx 150pg). sort it out ccp! ___________________________________ Account Cancelled
Gary Goat	Posted - 2006.04.08 00:25:00 - [489] bump. Dev's! Where art thou Devs please read
twit brent	Posted - 2006.04.08 01:49:00 - [490] Its amazing how devs can reply to a 1-2 page thread and just completely ignore a 17 page thread thats been arround for ages.

Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.04.08 02:14:00 - [491] Edited by: Dash Ripcock on 08/04/2006 02:14:33 Originally by: twit brent Its amazing how devs can reply to a 1-2 page thread and just completely ignore a 17 page thread thats been arround for ages. What's even more worrying is that Tuxford recently said in another thread that he wasn't aware that the Deimos needs looking into. This thread is now approaching four months in age, nearly five-hundred replies and seventeen pages. I guess I can see how he missed it... Save The Deimos
Mr rooflez	Posted - 2006.04.08 05:50:00 - [492] I think it's most obvious when you compare it to the brutix. assuming max skills: damage: with a full rack of t2 ions the deimos does 301 dps and the brutix does 331 dps, dronebay is the same. round one to the brutix. durability: the deimos resistance bonuses from being a hac equals fitting 2 50% hardeners on kinetic and 1 on thermal. the brutix 37,5% rep bonus is roughly like fitting 4 37,5% hardeners. if you add up the percentages they're both 150%, so roughly equal. The deimos also has a resistance bonus to its shields, but the brutix has close to twice the shields, armor, and structure. So far you can argue it's a tie, but the deimos is given a slight edge by having a lower sig. round two to the deimos. cap: the deimos both has a better cap recharge and a bonus to mwd, which is essential on both ships for fitting blasters. however the brutix has a 4th mid slot where you can fit a cap injector, which is arguably more valuable than higher base recharge. round three to the brutix economy: round four to the brutix So all in all it seems the brutix is the (much, much)better ship to use in pvp. The deimos wins in NPCing by having a good cap recharge, low sig, and higher agility. If you were to compare the deimos to the astarte, which currently is about the same price-wise, you would end up with s on all rounds.
Dreez	Posted - 2006.04.08 09:06:00 - [493] Dash. There is a diffrense between not seeing and ignoring. I dont know about the fittingproblem, but i do hope they sort out the problem with the speed. I took a look at the stats of the Vaga and Diemos, and it turned out that the Vaga is 100m/s faster then the diemos. Just like its big brother, the blasterthron, its way to slow to be effective as a CQCship.(3-4bursts with Quad Lif FTL). Current Location: After chasing TomB for 2 years, at the pub, getting a cold beer.
Mather Maelstrom	Posted - 2006.04.08 09:17:00 - [494] With the subsystem targeting coming up it will all balance out. You will be able to target the web or mwd and this will disable any opposing force to the deimos. (Or was it the other way around =/ ) //No Pro Gallente RP, no Coreli & Cyrene anymore\\
Audrea	Posted - 2006.04.08 17:49:00 - [495] Originally by: twit brent Its amazing how devs can reply to a 1-2 page thread and just completely ignore a 17 page thread thats been arround for ages. We dont give up! quality thread, bump! From a soon to be HAC pilot, hoping for dev responce before I have to decide wether buy Ishtar or Deimos ---------------------------------------------- All my posts are my own opinions and dont not represent any organization until stated otherwise.
Durethia	Posted - 2006.04.09 11:50:00 - [496] While everyone, in favor of fixing the Diemos, has good points... (granted I have yet to read EVERY post), but of the few I have read, one blatant point wasn't addressed. Why have Neutron Blasters, if you can't fit them? On ANY Gallente ship no less. It's most ghetto to have a mix of weapons, and you can NOT populate a full rack of Neutron Blasters on any given ship with any hope of populating all other mid/low slots that might be available. You throw a MWD on a Thorax, you'll need Advanced Weapons Upgrades lvl 3 before you can fit four Neutrons without a RCU or PDU. It's no wonder, in most markets that T2 Neutron Blasters are cheaper than T2 Ion Blasters... you can't run them. This is extended even for frigate turrets, I can NOT slap four T2 Neutron Blasters on my Enyo or Ishkur, with my current skills, and have anything respectable in the other slots. Most importantly, if you do use Blasters, you MUST have NOS and MUST have MWD, if you can't dictate range, and have close range defense measures (NOS et al), you're using an improper fit. So, most T2 pilots, are sitting on T2 Ion Blasters if they choose to run Blasters... and, yet, something better exists but CCP refuses to make them feasible to use at all. It's not even a dangling carrot, becuase I've talked to pilots who have level 5s in all relevant skills who still can't mount the Neutron Blasters respectably. While I certainly agree, or speculate as I don't yet fly HAC, that the Diemos might need extra umph... I think the real problem is the power grid requirements for Blasters and MWDs. They do go hand in hand. They need to be lowered, and lowered a lot to be honest. Becuase as it is now, Neutron Blasters are effectively worthless as noone can properly fit them regardless of skills, regardless of ship; to speak nothing of those Gallente ships that are designed to be blaster boats like the Thorax and Diemos....
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.04.09 11:53:00 - [497] Still no reply? -_- Well.. This is my hangar right now. Notice no deimos. I guess it'll stay like that unless it gets some love. Not an attempt to brag, just was too lazy to crop down the whole hangar and just show the gallente heavy assault ship list. Originally by: KilROCK I make sigs, evemail me if interested.
twit brent	Posted - 2006.04.09 13:25:00 - [498] Originally by: KilROCK Still no reply? -_- Well.. This is my hangar right now. Notice no deimos. I guess it'll stay like that unless it gets some love. Not an attempt to brag, just was too lazy to crop down the whole hangar and just show the gallente heavy assault ship list. I found my gallente shuttle can actualy make a decent tackler if u get a faction disruptor and orbit at 26km out of nos range and hit drones with rockets and 75 rails.
Audrea	Posted - 2006.04.09 13:30:00 - [499] Originally by: KilROCK Still no reply? -_- Well.. This is my hangar right now. Notice no deimos. I guess it'll stay like that unless it gets some love. Not an attempt to brag, just was too lazy to crop down the whole hangar and just show the gallente heavy assault ship list. nevertheless, nice collection :) all insured? or u insure only when need to use, as to prevent expiring insurances? Also would be nice if you shared your ship naming methodology with us ps: bump! reply already, devs ---------------------------------------------- All my posts are my own opinions and dont not represent any organization until stated otherwise.
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.04.09 13:39:00 - [500] Edited by: KilROCK on 09/04/2006 13:40:33 Originally by: twit brent Originally by: KilROCK Still no reply? -_- Well.. This is my hangar right now. Notice no deimos. I guess it'll stay like that unless it gets some love. Not an attempt to brag, just was too lazy to crop down the whole hangar and just show the gallente heavy assault ship list. I found my gallente shuttle can actualy make a decent tackler if u get a faction disruptor and orbit at 26km out of nos range and hit drones with rockets and 75 rails. Can do the same with a taranis.... Originally by: Audrea Also would be nice if you shared your ship naming methodology with us Errr.. It's hard to explain the 3 ishtar need new names because i can't remember what's on them without the special 'names'... Originally by: KilROCK I make sigs, evemail me if interested.

Kunming	Posted - 2006.04.10 00:18:00 - [501] Shameless bump... Seriously a dev checking out the figures Dash Ripcock presented would be enough, but please give us an answer, we promis to leave you alone... until the next patch Website Kaos Empire Killboard
Lonectzn	Posted - 2006.04.10 00:52:00 - [502] Originally by: KilROCK Still no reply? -_- Well.. This is my hangar right now. Notice no deimos. I guess it'll stay like that unless it gets some love. Not an attempt to brag, just was too lazy to crop down the whole hangar and just show the gallente heavy assault ship list. I was like 'so w/ever' at that whole list till I spotted the 3 Vagas. But in effort to stay on topic, I'll sign this thread =) Deimos does need a little Tender Loving Care (no TLC doesn't stand for Tender Love and Care, so quit it) -----------------
Jorund Bork	Posted - 2006.04.10 00:56:00 - [503] Been meaning to sign this for a while now. The Deimos could do with a look at considering how slow it is, and how it handles, for a close range ship. Particularly when compared to other HACS. We're still waiting for blasters to be looked at as well..... Dev response would be nice
Durethia	Posted - 2006.04.10 01:58:00 - [504] Another bump... becuase the PG requirements for Blasters and MWD are out of touch with reality.
Necrologic	Posted - 2006.04.10 02:30:00 - [505] I'm close to going 35 days out of my way to train for a vaga and t2 proj just so i can find a useful hac to fly. Please don't make me do this devs. Give us an answer! clap
master omegadoom	Posted - 2006.04.10 02:57:00 - [506] Bump
Flipidy Floo	Posted - 2006.04.10 03:36:00 - [507] Lower sig, lower mass are the only things this ship really needs.... but I'd like to see the changes to blasters recently posted before I decide whether it needs more love. Makes no sense that galante can't fit neutrons when all other races can fit their highest damage close range guns.
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.04.10 17:44:00 - [508] Here are examples of two ships that fill similar roles: fast and close-range. Ships Deimos PG: 860 CPU: 330 Capacitor: 1100 (1100 with MWD) Speed: 170ms Mass: 12MKg Vagabond PG: 855 CPU: 395 Capacitor: 850 (637.5 with MWD) Speed: 242ms Mass: 10MKg PG Difference: 5 MW (Deimos has 0.58% more) CPU Difference: 65 tf (Vaga has 19.7% more) Capacitor Difference: Deimos has a capacitor 1.73 times the size of a Vaga Speed Difference: Vaga is 42.4% faster than a Deimos Mass: Deimos is 20% heavier than a Vaga Close-Range Weapons Heavy Ion Blaster II: PG: 155 CPU: 39 DPS: 0.75 Cap Usage per Second: 1.48 Optimal: 3,000m Falloff: 4,000m 425MM Autocannon II: PG: 154 CPU: 25 DPS: 0.616 Cap Usage per Second: 0.267 Optimal: 2,400m Falloff: 8,000m PG Difference: 1 MW (Ion uses 0.645% more) CPU Difference: 14 tf (Ion uses 56% more) Cap Use Difference: Ions use 5.54 times as much capacitor as Autos I have highlighted the major differences in italics. So, the Deimos has quite a lot less CPU than a Vagabond, but its weapons use 56% more CPU to fit than a Vagabond's weapons do. The Deimos has nearly double the capacitor of a Vagabond when fitted with an MWD, yet its guns use up over five times as much capacitor as a Vagabond's do. So from this we can see that the Deimos is not only tougher to fit, but harder to keep going due to higher capacitor needs on the guns... ...which brings me onto the velocity and mass differences. The Deimos has to burn an MWD far more than a Vagabond does due to being far slower and heavier. This means that her capacitor has taken a beating before she even begins to fight, at which point her heavy capacitor weapons use up what's left. Yes, this is more about blasters than the Deimos. However, I think it highlights why the Deimos suffers in both fitting and agility. Save The Deimos
alty mcaltalot	Posted - 2006.04.10 17:46:00 - [509] Originally by: Dash Ripcock stuff if you get the vaga nerfed, I will hire BA to kill you
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.04.10 17:50:00 - [510] Originally by: alty mcaltalot Originally by: Dash Ripcock stuff if you get the vaga nerfed, I will hire BA to kill you I do not want the Vagabond nerfed! I think she's a fantastic ship, stands out amongst the HACs as one of the decent Tech 2 upgrades over the original. What I do want is the Deimos boosted! Save The Deimos

alty mcaltalot	Posted - 2006.04.10 18:48:00 - [511] Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: alty mcaltalot Originally by: Dash Ripcock stuff if you get the vaga nerfed, I will hire BA to kill you I do not want the Vagabond nerfed! I think she's a fantastic ship, stands out amongst the HACs as one of the decent Tech 2 upgrades over the original. What I do want is the Deimos boosted! I'm just messing with you
Audrea	Posted - 2006.04.11 02:12:00 - [512] We do not give up so easily to the devs. mad bump!! ---------------------------------------------- All my posts are my own opinions and dont not represent any organization until stated otherwise.
Gary Goat	Posted - 2006.04.14 15:52:00 - [513] bump Devs please read
OrangeAfroMan	Posted - 2006.04.14 16:59:00 - [514] Why is it that I am consistantly dissappointed with the Dev's lack of response to any valid thread, examples are this, the autocannon thread, and many, many others Originally by: Slink Grinsdikild CAPS LOCK IS THE CRUISE CONTROL FOR AWESOME
Spartan239	Posted - 2006.04.14 17:53:00 - [515] Originally by: OrangeAfroMan Why is it that I am consistantly dissappointed with the Dev's lack of response to any valid thread, examples are this, the autocannon thread, and many, many others dev read the forums when those threads arent on the first 2 or 3 pages? I post on the forums for MaxSuicide that makes me cool? Originally by: Spartan239 Dragonball Z> all other anime
Kalixa Hihro	Posted - 2006.04.14 18:04:00 - [516] Originally by: Rod Blaine I never fit a 1600mm on a deimos anyway. It gimps the ship to no end, utterly useless ship once you fit that. I use an 800mm II plate, or none at all. Then again, the 800mm II fits with 5 heavy ions and an ABII quite decently. Once you need the mwd you're screwed. An mwd setup means no plate, unless you go for electron II's and an 800mm plate. Yes that means deimos is maybe one of the weakest hac's in hac v hac or hac v bc, generally speaking. But how strange is that ? Tell me, what ship can be designed for short range, yet be cap hungry with a low cap, have low hitpoint total, and be grid poor and still function as a short range beast ? None can, it's that easy. Of course, this only gets most ibvious in 1v1, in 3v1 a blasterthron for example still works pretty fine, as does a deimos. Sometimes, in 1v1 it'll work fine too, for example when youve got a tracking disruptor on that mega and end up at 7km from a geddon with pulses. In general however, blasterboats are too weak to really function well. Which is why I'm glad to to see the damage bonus of the deimos work on rails as well. /signed 1600mm plate is a BS fitting. Expect to lose some damage capability if you fit something that sucks all your powergrid. This person is wanting a superman/iwin button on a ship. Tank _or_ deal damage. You can't do both. Pick one and stick with it. If you can do both extremely well there is a balance issue. Rod is on the money... Complaints that "I can't be superman" always ***** me up. -Kal
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.04.14 19:23:00 - [517] Originally by: OrangeAfroMan Why is it that I am consistantly dissappointed with the Dev's lack of response to any valid thread, examples are this, the autocannon thread, and many, many others Devs read forums, but they don't respond in too many threds. This is because they don't want to be concieved as partial to any sides, nor (and this is important) get involved in the debates (BURN BABY BURN!) This particular thred, though, has been proven to not have been read by at least Tuxford. (On devs: they seem to make a common misstake of viewing ships on their own, and seldom place them next to other ships for comparison - and if they do, they are placed only next to peers in very specific situations. Results - Ares, Deimos, Lachesis, Typhoon, Eagle, etc. i.e. the weaker ships) Drones are Gallente. Missiles are Caldari. Get this into your damned head!
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.04.18 11:43:00 - [518] Originally by: Ithildin This particular thred, though, has been proven to not have been read by at least Tuxford. Let's remedy that! The Firing Range
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.04.18 11:49:00 - [519] Originally by: Kalixa Hihro Originally by: Rod Blaine I never fit a 1600mm on a deimos anyway. It gimps the ship to no end, utterly useless ship once you fit that. I use an 800mm II plate, or none at all. Then again, the 800mm II fits with 5 heavy ions and an ABII quite decently. Once you need the mwd you're screwed. An mwd setup means no plate, unless you go for electron II's and an 800mm plate. Yes that means deimos is maybe one of the weakest hac's in hac v hac or hac v bc, generally speaking. But how strange is that ? Tell me, what ship can be designed for short range, yet be cap hungry with a low cap, have low hitpoint total, and be grid poor and still function as a short range beast ? None can, it's that easy. Of course, this only gets most ibvious in 1v1, in 3v1 a blasterthron for example still works pretty fine, as does a deimos. Sometimes, in 1v1 it'll work fine too, for example when youve got a tracking disruptor on that mega and end up at 7km from a geddon with pulses. In general however, blasterboats are too weak to really function well. Which is why I'm glad to to see the damage bonus of the deimos work on rails as well. /signed 1600mm plate is a BS fitting. Expect to lose some damage capability if you fit something that sucks all your powergrid. This person is wanting a superman/iwin button on a ship. Tank _or_ deal damage. You can't do both. Pick one and stick with it. If you can do both extremely well there is a balance issue. Rod is on the money... Complaints that "I can't be superman" always ***** me up. -Kal Deimos can't do either that's the problem. It hardly gets in range to do it's damage cuz it'll be shot down long before that. A Zealot can get very near the Deimos DPS, at the range of 30km (Say what? yeah)with thrice the tank of a deimos
Edoo	Posted - 2006.04.18 12:23:00 - [520] Deimos certainly needs a big boost in PG and CPU.

Odda	Posted - 2006.04.18 12:54:00 - [521] /signed I love the blasters on my rax and af¦s Stil want them on my bs and hac :) please ccp. just give us a small sign you are watcing this :)
Kunming	Posted - 2006.04.18 12:56:00 - [522] This thread pleeds for a dev responce Website Kaos Empire Killboard
smallgreenblur	Posted - 2006.04.18 12:57:00 - [523] Adding my bump for the dev response. But only if they look at the autocannon thread too. Please. sgb C6 is recruiting ... visit www.c6-eve.com or join channel c-6 for details.
Jaketh Ivanes	Posted - 2006.04.18 13:23:00 - [524] Hmm.. that this thread has been ignored by devs since creation, says something.. not about the devs, but more about this thread.
twit brent	Posted - 2006.04.18 13:44:00 - [525] Also null ammo needs to be looked at. A friend in a zealot uses his tech II pulse crystals to push his optimal to 40+km. Deimos with null the optimal goes up to a whopping 6km. What the f*** is the point of giving an optimal bonus to blasters?
smallgreenblur	Posted - 2006.04.18 14:35:00 - [526] Originally by: twit brent Also null ammo needs to be looked at. A friend in a zealot uses his tech II pulse crystals to push his optimal to 40+km. Deimos with null the optimal goes up to a whopping 6km. What the f*** is the point of giving an optimal bonus to blasters? I can think of one situation - vs an ac minmatar ship that's got you webbed @ 9ks and is pwning you in his falloff. Apart from that, yeah it is pointless. I thought there was a falloff bonus ammo? sgb C6 is recruiting ... visit www.c6-eve.com or join channel c-6 for details.
Kaeten	Posted - 2006.04.18 14:46:00 - [527] deimos currently sucks ass Signature file size to big, please keep it under 24000 bytes. Please e-mail us at [email protected] with any questions - Petwraith [orange]Second image removed, please only use one
Kunming	Posted - 2006.04.18 15:48:00 - [528] Originally by: smallgreenblur Originally by: twit brent Also null ammo needs to be looked at. A friend in a zealot uses his tech II pulse crystals to push his optimal to 40+km. Deimos with null the optimal goes up to a whopping 6km. What the f*** is the point of giving an optimal bonus to blasters? I can think of one situation - vs an ac minmatar ship that's got you webbed @ 9ks and is pwning you in his falloff. Apart from that, yeah it is pointless. I thought there was a falloff bonus ammo? sgb Null M gives 25% optimal and 25% falloff bonus, fit it on Heavy Ion IIs and u can shoot upto 11km with optimal + falloff, the dmg is already lower than AM M so making inaccurate hits at a better optimal is not really much of a bonus. Deimos gets a falloff bonus so its slightly better but nothing comperable to what twit brent mentioned with T2 pulse crystals. Btw a quick note on projectiles, 425mm ACs definetly race with neutron blasters in uselessness. Whats the point of these guns, hope the fight ends before you have to reload? Anyway this thread is about the Diemos; blasters, projectiles and T2 ammo are topics on their own. Common CCP, we are practically begging for a response, even a "we'll have a look into it" would be satifactory Website Kaos Empire Killboard
Yarek Balear	Posted - 2006.04.18 15:56:00 - [529] Edited by: Yarek Balear on 18/04/2006 15:57:46 Dudes, relax.... The Devs have responded on this issue multiple times ! They acknowledge the fact that Blasters need serious rework and the changes discussed have been: 1. Tracking boost (possibly covered by overall tracking bonus changes and not just blasters) 2. CPU/Grid fitting requirements being too high 3. Cap usage on guns being too high While the actual details have not yet been released yet, they will be covered in the Tuxford thread at the top: Tuxfords Changes Thread If they had to respond to every single whine there was (don't get me wrong, I support the need for blaster changes) then they'd get no real work done ever... Significantly reducing the fitting & cap needs of the blasters makes the ship easier to fit and overall more useful . So as the advert says - "Calm down dear". Cheers, Yarek.
Spartan239	Posted - 2006.04.18 16:03:00 - [530] Originally by: Yarek Balear Edited by: Yarek Balear on 18/04/2006 15:57:46 Dudes, relax.... The Devs have responded on this issue multiple times ! They acknowledge the fact that Blasters need serious rework and the changes discussed have been: 1. Tracking boost (possibly covered by overall tracking bonus changes and not just blasters) 2. CPU/Grid fitting requirements being too high 3. Cap usage on guns being too high While the actual details have not yet been released yet, they will be covered in the Tuxford thread at the top: Tuxfords Changes Thread If they had to respond to every single whine there was (don't get me wrong, I support the need for blaster changes) then they'd get no real work done ever... Significantly reducing the fitting & cap needs of the blasters makes the ship easier to fit and overall more useful . So as the advert says - "Calm down dear". Cheers, Yarek. this is about the ship, not the guns I post on the forums for MaxSuicide that makes me cool? Originally by: Dark Shikari Dragonball Z> all other anime

Loki Caldaris	Posted - 2006.04.18 17:03:00 - [531] The highest damge weapons in the game should not be a cakewalk to fit or use.
Jerick Ludhowe	Posted - 2006.04.18 17:14:00 - [532] Originally by: Loki Caldaris The highest damge weapons in the game should not be a cakewalk to fit or use. Highest dps on paper does not mean highest dps in practice. Both ACs and Pulse lasers have much longer range allowing them to land hits well before a blaster ships comes into range. ACs are much MUCH easier to fit, minmatar ships often have more Power grid and the ACs take almost no grid and cpu. Pulse lasers are far easier to fit because the ships that use them have far more grid than blaster ships. After the blaster rework there may verywell be no need to change this ship at all. Many of us are asking for other stats to change on the ship outside of grid and cpu. As stated so many times previous to this the ship needs more speed, less sig, and less mass. 10% increase / decrease to each would be more than enough to fix the ship.
Pesadel0	Posted - 2006.04.18 17:31:00 - [533] Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe Originally by: Loki Caldaris The highest damge weapons in the game should not be a cakewalk to fit or use. Highest dps on paper does not mean highest dps in practice. Both ACs and Pulse lasers have much longer range allowing them to land hits well before a blaster ships comes into range. ACs are much MUCH easier to fit, minmatar ships often have more Power grid and the ACs take almost no grid and cpu. Pulse lasers are far easier to fit because the ships that use them have far more grid than blaster ships. After the blaster rework there may verywell be no need to change this ship at all. Many of us are asking for other stats to change on the ship outside of grid and cpu. As stated so many times previous to this the ship needs more speed, less sig, and less mass. 10% increase / decrease to each would be more than enough to fix the ship. Agreed do that to the munnin,eagle,and zealot and i will be happy.
Kunming	Posted - 2006.04.18 18:20:00 - [534] Originally by: Pesadel0 ... Agreed do that to the munnin,eagle,and zealot and i will be happy. Read Dash Riprocks posts here, compared to T1 those ships you mentioned already have that boost and much more... the deimos doesnt. And thats not limited with only PG and CPU but speed and agility as well cause atm it handles more like a brick tbh. The problem on munnin is directly related to a design flaw with med projectiles if you ask me. Zealot is fine FFS, I fly them my self and havent encountered any flaw besides the small disadvantage of not having a drone bay. Eagle, its a long range cruiser and lives up to that perfectly. The deimos now on the other hand doesnt even have the boost from T1 to T2 the other HACs have, and can NOT succesfully perform its designated role as a blasterboat. Deimos should be the gallente style vagabond, hell the vaga out performs the deimos on every field, faster, more agile, better optimal, better tank, no cap use on guns, selective dmg etc... uhmm give this lady some love pls ♥ Website Kaos Empire Killboard
Dreez	Posted - 2006.04.18 18:45:00 - [535] Originally by: Loki Caldaris The highest damge weapons in the game should not be a cakewalk to fit or use. Go away, ignorant people does not belong in this thread. Current Location: After chasing TomB for 2 years, at the pub, getting a cold beer.
Dreez	Posted - 2006.04.18 18:48:00 - [536] Edited by: Dreez on 18/04/2006 18:48:31 Originally by: Kunming Read Dash Riprocks posts here, compared to T1 those ships you mentioned already have that boost and much more... the deimos doesnt. And thats not limited with only PG and CPU but speed and agility as well cause atm it handles more like a brick tbh. The problem on munnin is directly related to a design flaw with med projectiles if you ask me. Zealot is fine FFS, I fly them my self and havent encountered any flaw besides the small disadvantage of not having a drone bay. Eagle, its a long range cruiser and lives up to that perfectly. The deimos now on the other hand doesnt even have the boost from T1 to T2 the other HACs have, and can NOT succesfully perform its designated role as a blasterboat. Deimos should be the gallente style vagabond, hell the vaga out performs the deimos on every field, faster, more agile, better optimal, better tank, no cap use on guns, selective dmg etc... QFT Current Location: After chasing TomB for 2 years, at the pub, getting a cold beer.
Loki Caldaris	Posted - 2006.04.18 23:10:00 - [537] Originally by: Spartan239 Originally by: Loki Caldaris Originally by: Dreez Originally by: Loki Caldaris The highest damge weapons in the game should not be a cakewalk to fit or use. Go away, ignorant people does not belong in this thread. way to make an argument hes made it in other places move along peon
Spartan239	Posted - 2006.04.18 23:23:00 - [538] Originally by: Loki Caldaris Originally by: Spartan239 Originally by: Loki Caldaris Originally by: Dreez Originally by: Loki Caldaris The highest damge weapons in the game should not be a cakewalk to fit or use. Go away, ignorant people does not belong in this thread. way to make an argument hes made it in other places move along peon war me ingame and make me, can you even fly a hac? I post on the forums for MaxSuicide that makes me cool? Originally by: Dark Shikari Dragonball Z> all other anime
Loki Caldaris	Posted - 2006.04.19 00:26:00 - [539] Originally by: Spartan239 Originally by: Loki Caldaris Originally by: Spartan239 Originally by: Loki Caldaris Originally by: Dreez Originally by: Loki Caldaris The highest damge weapons in the game should not be a cakewalk to fit or use. Go away, ignorant people does not belong in this thread. way to make an argument hes made it in other places move along peon war me ingame and make me, can you even fly a hac? e-thuggin to the max. rofl
Zembla	Posted - 2006.04.19 00:57:00 - [540] It's not the highest damagin weapon in the game. Get informed or get lost. Don't derail this thread either. If we want a response from the devs, a flamewar won't help us. The Deimos needs fixing, period. <Z> Spread the Z

Bloodst0ne	Posted - 2006.04.19 01:04:00 - [541] Originally by: Zembla The Deimos needs fixing, period. <Z> Signed.. yet again
B0rn2KiLL	Posted - 2006.04.19 01:26:00 - [542] Originally by: Zembla It's not the highest damagin weapon in the game. Get informed or get lost. Don't derail this thread either. If we want a response from the devs, a flamewar won't help us. The Deimos needs fixing, period. <Z> /signed --- When It Absolutely Positively Has To Be Desotroyed.
Loki Caldaris	Posted - 2006.04.19 02:06:00 - [543] Originally by: Zembla It's not the highest damagin weapon in the game. Get informed or get lost. Don't derail this thread either. If we want a response from the devs, a flamewar won't help us. The Deimos needs fixing, period. <Z> What is more damage?
mr devast	Posted - 2006.04.19 05:42:00 - [544] The deimos is screwed in every aspect. It's a blaster boat without the ability to get into range. Use rails on it. That's the best thing you can do. period.
Theron Gyrow	Posted - 2006.04.19 07:51:00 - [545] Originally by: mr devast The deimos is screwed in every aspect. It's a blaster boat without the ability to get into range. Use rails on it. That's the best thing you can do. period. 200mm ones, mind you, or fit a RCU 2. Or two, if you want to fit a T2 med repper, too. -- Gradient's forum
VanDam	Posted - 2006.04.19 09:09:00 - [546] Originally by: Kurenin Edited by: Kurenin on 01/12/2005 11:19:24 Absolute rubbish. Though with this said, there is a worst HAC - the Sacrilege. Hmm u get another hac that can tank aswell as the sac and then we will see which is worse
LukaG	Posted - 2006.04.19 10:49:00 - [547] has there been a developer response to this? forgive me for being lazy but I couldn't be bothered going through 19 pages of "opinion" to see if the Devs have something to say on the issue.
Edoo	Posted - 2006.04.19 11:50:00 - [548] Originally by: Pesadel0 The vaga outperforms the deimos figthing in the fallof i mean if a deimos gets inside the vaga bomm it is a dead vaga there. Minor problem - the vaga is a trillion times faster and more agile... a Deimos will NEVER get in range of a good vaga pilot. Vagas beat Deimos daily. Deimos atm is a pathetic ship im ashamed to say.
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.04.19 12:04:00 - [549] Originally by: LukaG has there been a developer response to this? forgive me for being lazy but I couldn't be bothered going through 19 pages of "opinion" to see if the Devs have something to say on the issue. Threds with developer responses have a yellow left border on the sub-forum index. No, there hasn't been any devs poking around in this thred. Also, Tuxford has admitted to not having seen/read this thred. Latest EVE musing (MC-boards)
Edoo	Posted - 2006.04.20 09:54:00 - [550] bump until tuxford reads it

Lucus Ranger	Posted - 2006.04.20 10:27:00 - [551] I didn't realise until recently how hard it is to fit the Deimos, it could do with a PG increase. Deimos could also do with more agility and slightly more base speed, considering it has to close on a target to be able to use it's blasters effectivly.
Miklas Laces	Posted - 2006.04.20 12:47:00 - [552] Originally by: Tuxford also know about Deimos fitting and yes its a bit hard to fit. This will be fixed largely with a blaster changes which btw I have already started working on and if we had a working testserver you would see the changes. there we are
Spartan239	Posted - 2006.04.20 12:51:00 - [553] Originally by: Miklas Laces Originally by: Tuxford also know about Deimos fitting and yes its a bit hard to fit. This will be fixed largely with a blaster changes which btw I have already started working on and if we had a working testserver you would see the changes. there we are see my trolling helped somehow, even if its a bad way to go about things I post on the forums for MaxSuicide that makes me cool? Originally by: Dark Shikari Dragonball Z> all other anime
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.04.20 13:11:00 - [554] Edited by: Dash Ripcock on 20/04/2006 13:11:03 Originally by: Miklas Laces Originally by: Tuxford also know about Deimos fitting and yes its a bit hard to fit. This will be fixed largely with a blaster changes which btw I have already started working on and if we had a working testserver you would see the changes. there we are Where was that? It's not just the fitting! The Firing Range
Spartan239	Posted - 2006.04.20 13:15:00 - [555] Originally by: Dash Ripcock Edited by: Dash Ripcock on 20/04/2006 13:11:03 Originally by: Miklas Laces Originally by: Tuxford also know about Deimos fitting and yes its a bit hard to fit. This will be fixed largely with a blaster changes which btw I have already started working on and if we had a working testserver you would see the changes. there we are Where was that? It's not just the fitting! better than a spit in the face I post on the forums for MaxSuicide that makes me cool? Originally by: Dark Shikari Dragonball Z> all other anime
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.04.20 13:22:00 - [556] Originally by: Spartan239 Originally by: Dash Ripcock Edited by: Dash Ripcock on 20/04/2006 13:11:03 Originally by: Miklas Laces Originally by: Tuxford also know about Deimos fitting and yes its a bit hard to fit. This will be fixed largely with a blaster changes which btw I have already started working on and if we had a working testserver you would see the changes. there we are Where was that? It's not just the fitting! better than a spit in the face True, but doing something half-arsed will mean in six months time we'll all be calling for her velocity to be remedied. Better to kill two birds with one stone in a content patch. The Firing Range
Spartan239	Posted - 2006.04.20 13:25:00 - [557] Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: Spartan239 Originally by: Dash Ripcock Edited by: Dash Ripcock on 20/04/2006 13:11:03 Originally by: Miklas Laces Originally by: Tuxford also know about Deimos fitting and yes its a bit hard to fit. This will be fixed largely with a blaster changes which btw I have already started working on and if we had a working testserver you would see the changes. there we are Where was that? It's not just the fitting! better than a spit in the face True, but doing something half-arsed will mean in six months time we'll all be calling for her velocity to be remedied. Better to kill two birds with one stone in a content patch. true, but at least weve got one issue nailed I post on the forums for MaxSuicide that makes me cool? Originally by: Dark Shikari Dragonball Z> all other anime
Jorund Bork	Posted - 2006.04.21 06:33:00 - [558] Thats close enough to a response for me Originally by: Tuxford Why do you assume that I've missed it. Do you reply to every single thread you read? Do you think I do? The reason I've not replied to the minmatar carrier thread because I really haven't taken a look at the issue. I know people don't like a bonus on it and I will take a look at it in due time. I also know about Deimos fitting and yes its a bit hard to fit. This will be fixed largely with a blaster changes which btw I have already started working on and if we had a working testserver you would see the changes. I can also assure you that I see every +10 page whine/complain thread the pops up on this forum, not because I'm always whoring the forums (which I am) but because as soon as someone I know sees it they let me know about. I also know about a lot of other issues that you probably have never even heard of. <- out of game atm, but hopes it will be fixed by the time I get back
Spartan239	Posted - 2006.04.21 07:26:00 - [559] Originally by: Jorund Bork Thats close enough to a response for me Originally by: Tuxford Why do you assume that I've missed it. Do you reply to every single thread you read? Do you think I do? The reason I've not replied to the minmatar carrier thread because I really haven't taken a look at the issue. I know people don't like a bonus on it and I will take a look at it in due time. I also know about Deimos fitting and yes its a bit hard to fit. This will be fixed largely with a blaster changes which btw I have already started working on and if we had a working testserver you would see the changes. I can also assure you that I see every +10 page whine/complain thread the pops up on this forum, not because I'm always whoring the forums (which I am) but because as soon as someone I know sees it they let me know about. I also know about a lot of other issues that you probably have never even heard of. <- out of game atm, but hopes it will be fixed by the time I get back Yes its a boost, but as has already been stated it will still be fat and slow I post on the forums for MaxSuicide that makes me cool? Originally by: Dark Shikari Dragonball Z> all other anime
Kunming	Posted - 2006.04.21 20:11:00 - [560] Its not only the fitting, a long range ship wont have problems flying around like a brick, neither would a capital ship, but a short range ship needs to be fast to get in range or have enough cap to run a rank until in range. Diemos' stats should be at least equal or higher than a thorax's.. not lower

Spartan239	Posted - 2006.04.21 20:24:00 - [561] Originally by: Kunming Its not only the fitting, a long range ship wont have problems flying around like a brick, neither would a capital ship, but a short range ship needs to be fast to get in range or have enough cap to run a rank until in range. Diemos' stats should be at least equal or higher than a thorax's.. not lower Speed of a rupture, Speed of a rupture (i can wish mkay) I post on the forums for MaxSuicide that makes me cool? Originally by: Dark Shikari Dragonball Z> all other anime
bbqurface	Posted - 2006.04.21 22:12:00 - [562] Originally by: Kunming Its not only the fitting, a long range ship wont have problems flying around like a brick, neither would a capital ship, but a short range ship needs to be fast to get in range or have enough cap to run a rank until in range. Diemos' stats should be at least equal or higher than a thorax's.. not lower There's this great underused low slot module called a Nanofiber. What do you think the game designers would do to encourage its use on ships that need to be fast and agile? Why not lower the ship's speed but give it 6 low slots and a bonus to mwd usage? I'll admit making the deimos 10 m/s slower than the Thorax was a ***** move, but doing anything more than equalizing it and throwing on another 10 pg would simply turn the deimos into a powerhouse.
Techyon	Posted - 2006.04.21 23:34:00 - [563] While a nanofiber solves the Agility / Speed problem pretty much, it creates new problems. Fitting a nanofiber, or two, gimps either your : tanking, damage or perhaps cap recharge. All of which are paramount for a Deimos. Yes I can fit a nanofiber to my Deimos, by for example trading it in for a magstab. If however I'm fighting for example a Zealot, my damage will be almost on par with it, while he is still faster or close to just as fast with a mwd fitted, if he doesn't have one he still has the advantage of more range, and a better tank at the same time. If you're attacked by a vaga, well you're still way to slow to even hope to catch it, and you will die horribly. If you somehow get the vaga in web range you will have less damage, thus giving the vaga more time to get out of web range and still kill you. ------
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.04.25 11:03:00 - [564] Even if blasters are fixed, I think it's pretty obvious that the Deimos should have the same velocity and signature radius as the Thorax. At least. Why not go the way of the Vagabond and improve upon this bonus with a slightly higher velocity and lower signature radius..? The Firing Range
Necrologic	Posted - 2006.04.25 15:59:00 - [565] Bump since Tux seems to be reading the forums.
Kunming	Posted - 2006.04.25 21:52:00 - [566] I was just looking at my deimos and felt like bumping this thread
Yarek Balear	Posted - 2006.04.25 21:54:00 - [567] Originally by: Dash Ripcock Even if blasters are fixed, I think it's pretty obvious that the Deimos should have the same velocity and signature radius as the Thorax. At least. Why not go the way of the Vagabond and improve upon this bonus with a slightly higher velocity and lower signature radius..? /signed
ThunderGodThor	Posted - 2006.05.03 00:22:00 - [568] Originally by: Yarek Balear Originally by: Dash Ripcock Even if blasters are fixed, I think it's pretty obvious that the Deimos should have the same velocity and signature radius as the Thorax. At least. Why not go the way of the Vagabond and improve upon this bonus with a slightly higher velocity and lower signature radius..? /signed Signed. Tux there is more than just fitting of the blasters but the ship its self needs a hard look too as it flights like a brick. Lets keep on this people.
Bloodst0ne	Posted - 2006.05.03 01:34:00 - [569] 20 pages and counting.. 0 dev responses in the entire thread and errr.. counting? /me files his dev application in hopes of fixing the problem. COME ON DEV's I know you are reading this. -blood
B0rn2KiLL	Posted - 2006.05.03 04:06:00 - [570] /bump --- new sig, Hijack it and ill eat u. *Imaran hands B0rn2KiLL a fork - Come get some!11

Kunming	Posted - 2006.05.04 22:57:00 - [571] Originally by: Bloodst0ne 20 pages and counting.. 0 dev responses in the entire thread and errr.. counting? /me files his dev application in hopes of fixing the problem. COME ON DEV's I know you are reading this. -blood I know now they are definetly not reading it or if they do ignore it on purpose.. Tux's latest post is a prime proof for this. Not even a mentioning of the deimos. Originally by: Tuxford Blasters Decreased Capacitor need by 15% Decreased cpu need by 10% Decreased powergrid need by 10% on all heavy neutron blasters Some of you might feel that this is not enough. The changes are pretty modest on purpose. I don't think this makes blasters overpowered and they are obviously better then they are now. Of course blasters suffer from other stuff that has nothing to do with blasters really but more to do with the danger of coming that close to other ships thus making them vulnerable to nos, webs, scramblers and so on. You can not even fit full rack of heavy ion blasters on a deimos, the change on the neutrons will only effect the brutix... ->
Kunming	Posted - 2006.05.07 13:01:00 - [572] Shameless bump, as the upcoming changed do NOTHING about the deimos. You cant even fit a proper tank OR gank setup (no EW setup either as the mids are used by the mandatory MWD & webifier), and its slower than its T1 counter part, way to go for the "ultimate blaster boat" (ship description)... The devs brought in specialization and long training times, so pls also make it worth while the time and money we spend... It might not be game breaking for you but it definetly is for me. I trained med blasters and gallente hac for a reason so dont tell me to fly the ishtar or train for a vagabond as I would rather cancel my subscription until its fixed and play with my second account ->
Kuro Hayashi	Posted - 2006.05.10 01:42:00 - [573] By Tux's reasoning... Quote: Gridwise I think blasters are fine, it is somewhat easier to fit mega pulse on an apoc but it doesn't really do the same damage as blasterthron, and although arma gets pretty close to the damage output its a bit harder to fit than mega. Granted he is talking about BS sized ships here. However, since he is not changing the grid requirements on cruiser sized blasters, it must follow that he believes blasters do not have grid problems in the medium sizes. Therefore if blasters are not the source of the grid problems...it must be the Deimos itself that has issues (using reason). We must therefore conclude that the Deimos, not the blasters, is the problem and that any blaster changes will not help the ship. A practicioner of Unsensical thought.
Deviana Sevidon	Posted - 2006.05.13 15:14:00 - [574] I would really like to see a Boost for this ship. As so many people stated, the Deimos has not even enough Grid to fit Ion Blasters properly. Even if Neutrons will be easier to fit, this won't help the Deimos hat all. So Tuxford tell me, is the Deimos and this Thread ignored on purpose?
Harper04	Posted - 2006.05.13 20:36:00 - [575] Tux, if you're only going to give neutrons pg love, and not the other med blasters, then at least make it so that I can use them on this beautiful ship...right now they're worthless cept on the brutix/t2 bc variants, and some blaster eagle setups. The blaster boost is making my caldari flying corpm8's happy because they're getting to get an even better closerange eagle setup, while gallente is getting left in the dust seeing they can't even begin to fit neutrons.
Lucus Ranger	Posted - 2006.05.13 21:01:00 - [576] Yup Deimos needs love...
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.05.15 14:00:00 - [577] Deimos Fitting: CPU: 412.5 tf PG: 1075 MW Current Ion Blaster II fitting (with full skills): CPU: 29.25 tf PG: 142.2 MW Assuming a Deimos pilot wants to fit five Heavy Ion Blaster IIs, a M Nosferatu (named), a MWD and a Medium Armour Rep II (not unreasonable - this is a Tech 2 blaster boat) he will need: CPU: (29.25 * 5) + 20 + 50 + 28 = 244.25 tf PG: (142.2 * 5) + 175 + 165 + 173 = 1224 MW The proposed changes are that the blasters receive 10-15% less fitting needs in CPU. This will change nothing with the Deimos. She still won't be able to use an Ion setup that doesn't require either a frigate-class module in the last high slot or a power modification in a low slot. CPU is tight on the Deimos - you need best-named T1 stuff nearly everywhere to use an Ion Blaster setup and a cruiser-sized nosferatu. However, it's only half the problem. Coupled with her crippling speed, signature radius and mass, the proposed changes offer the Deimos pilots absolutely nothing. Considering this is now a *twenty-page thread* that is inexcusable.
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.05.15 14:05:00 - [578] Originally by: Kuro Hayashi By Tux's reasoning... Quote: Gridwise I think blasters are fine, it is somewhat easier to fit mega pulse on an apoc but it doesn't really do the same damage as blasterthron, and although arma gets pretty close to the damage output its a bit harder to fit than mega. Granted he is talking about BS sized ships here. However, since he is not changing the grid requirements on cruiser sized blasters, it must follow that he believes blasters do not have grid problems in the medium sizes. Therefore if blasters are not the source of the grid problems...it must be the Deimos itself that has issues (using reason). We must therefore conclude that the Deimos, not the blasters, is the problem and that any blaster changes will not help the ship. It is the Deimos that is the problem. If you look a few pages back you will see that the Deimos, out of all the Heavy Assaults, has the second-lowest fitting increase over its T1 counterpart, the first being the Ishtar which, I think we can agree here, doesn't really need it. The difference in fitting between a Thorax and a Deimos is marginal, yet this is suppose to cater for a high and low slot - slots that are going to require power grid and CPU. I simply don't understand where Tuxford is coming from. This is one of the largest ship threads on the forum with the majority in agreement. Figures have been given, arguments made. Blaster changes are announced and... they're simply not enough. Enough for Battleships perhaps, but not for one of the few Tech 2 blaster boats.
OzaLoni	Posted - 2006.05.15 14:39:00 - [579] well personally I would like to see the following changes made to the deimos. 5% increase in agility (maybe a little more) - I don't want it to be like a vaga (which is just haxor atm) but blasters and agility would seem to be a good mix! 200 extra grid would be fantastic, but i think i'm off in dream land here
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.05.15 14:43:00 - [580] Originally by: OzaLoni well personally I would like to see the following changes made to the deimos. 5% increase in agility (maybe a little more) - I don't want it to be like a vaga (which is just haxor atm) but blasters and agility would seem to be a good mix! 200 extra grid would be fantastic, but i think i'm off in dream land here Actually i think the 200 grid is reasonable since a zealot can fit 4 guns a plate and a medium nosf without fitting mods, a deimos can only fit its guns without a fitting mod also a 10% speed increase would be more then reasonable

Jerick Ludhowe	Posted - 2006.05.15 14:59:00 - [581] Originally by: Dash Ripcock It is the Deimos that is the problem. If you look a few pages back you will see that the Deimos, out of all the Heavy Assaults, has the second-lowest fitting increase over its T1 counterpart, the first being the Ishtar which, I think we can agree here, doesn't really need it. The difference in fitting between a Thorax and a Deimos is marginal, yet this is suppose to cater for a high and low slot - slots that are going to require power grid and CPU. I simply don't understand where Tuxford is coming from. This is one of the largest ship threads on the forum with the majority in agreement. Figures have been given, arguments made. Blaster changes are announced and... they're simply not enough. Enough for Battleships perhaps, but not for one of the few Tech 2 blaster boats.[/quote Can't agree with you more. If you decrease the grid req on medium blasters then you end up boosting ships that are already on the verge of being overly powerfull such as the Brutix and Astrate. The deimos needs a minor grid increase (no more than 10%) a small sig reduction and a speed increase. All of these changes could be very modest and it still will make a big difference.
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.05.16 10:16:00 - [582] This still needs to be addressed
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.05.16 10:19:00 - [583] Originally by: Dash Ripcock This still needs to be addressed I truly don't understand why the devs don't give this HUGE thread with 99% agreement any attention
Bacchuss	Posted - 2006.05.16 10:33:00 - [584] boost deimos..... ************************************ "What you gonna do, when I come for yoU?!" ************************************
Joe Dalton	Posted - 2006.05.16 11:13:00 - [585] Hmmm Speed and agility would help it more.
Bazman	Posted - 2006.05.16 11:33:00 - [586] Fix teh Deimos, I skilled heavily for this ship and I find myself flying the Thorax simply because the Deimos blows chunks. It looks nice though. ----- Hi TomB! All out Do or Die Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks.
Hellspawn01	Posted - 2006.05.16 12:01:00 - [587] Got a question to the deimos pilots in here that have fitting problems (might be everyone here): Do you have the following skills at lvl5? -Advanced weapon upgrades -Engineering -Energy systems Operation -Energy management -Weapon upgrades -Electronics upgrades If you use plates, then you definately need RCU or a PDU. If you prefer gank, then you will probably use 2x damage mods and 2x energized adaptive nanos. I personaly use a 800mm plate 2x RCU II and 2 passive hardeners and a full set of Ions II. Got about 6 grid spare with very high skills. If you dont have one of the above named skills maxed, then you should do that before you talk about fitting problems. No offense ment. Ship lovers click here
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.05.16 12:08:00 - [588] Originally by: Hellspawn01 Got a question to the deimos pilots in here that have fitting problems (might be everyone here): Do you have the following skills at lvl5? -Advanced weapon upgrades -Engineering -Energy systems Operation -Energy management -Weapon upgrades -Electronics upgrades If you use plates, then you definately need RCU or a PDU. If you prefer gank, then you will probably use 2x damage mods and 2x energized adaptive nanos. I personaly use a 800mm plate 2x RCU II and 2 passive hardeners and a full set of Ions II. Got about 6 grid spare with very high skills. If you dont have one of the above named skills maxed, then you should do that before you talk about fitting problems. No offense ment. Of course, and keep in mind that those skills are't all required to make a half-decent fitting on the other HACs like they are on the Deimos. New sig coming soonÖ Drone musing (MC-boards)
Wattish	Posted - 2006.05.16 12:09:00 - [589] Originally by: Deathbarrage Originally by: Dash Ripcock This still needs to be addressed I truly don't understand why the devs don't give this HUGE thread with 99% agreement any attention You need to make a flash animation, attend E3 to ask directly and send an express delivery crayon drawn poem to iceland.
Ceanthar Cerbera	Posted - 2006.05.16 12:20:00 - [590] Seeing that this thread isnt a "OMFG OWERPOWER MY SHIP"-thread I might aswell put in an post of my own. This thread takes up one quite odd irregularity in EVE. If you read up on the races you notice that Gallente ship design is about extreme close range fighting with blasters and drones. This is cool, it hought when I started playing. Being a sebiestor I started with Minmatar but soon changed as I wanted a more "up front and personal" fighting style. I pledged myself to not use any ranged weapons even how much punishment I took getting to my target (those 2000m thats needed before any medium blaster works). I worked my way through all the support skills thats needed (alot of mechanics, gunnery etc) that other ships dont need in the same extent. And what of it? Now that I have tried some different ships and setups i realize that I might have been better off going short range with Minmatar instead! But dont get me wrong I really like Gallente ships, althought seeing that the extreme short range dont work as one would expect Im now more of a drone/rail oriented fighter (my primary HAC will be Ishtar and my primary BS are Domi with all drones and Mega with rails) except for my Enyo wich is the only blaster boat true to its name (although I hear they are getting nerfed). So whats the problem with the blaster boats of the extreme close range blaster race (Gallente)? Well two main things: AGILITY and SPEED The Thorax is a slow poke, sure you can fit MWD but the agility makes you overshoot. But my main conscern isnt with the thorax. It is a t1 ship and I think its quite balanced. Perhaps it could do with a couple of 10s m/s extra but its not an big issue. Brutix, oo a real gun boat. Meanacing and fearsome, but handles like a lead brick in oil. This is probably the least agile ship in the game (including such slow ships as raven). I mean whats up with a ship being 3 times as small as a BS and be the slowest in warp and the same speed? Using the Brutix as blaster boat is a "lets have some tea and bicuits while we aproach this target". Granted once you get within reach its awesome! But this doesnt stop most people I have seen to use it as a rail plattform (wich often causes you to go shield tanking the ship that has 7,5 % armor rep bonus!?). This agility problem applies to all BC (atleast could we have an BC afterburner?). The EOS and Astartre. Well I can see why you dont want a more agile Astartre cause it would just be to powerful. Astartre is more of a support/drone boat so lets not go there either. Finally the main blaster boat of the game. The feroscious DEIMOS! Wich, like the thorax will be half dead by the time it reaches its target. Bulky and slow with less agility than the Thorax. Where is the logic? The Deaimos is supposed to be an improved Thorax. That is an improved extreme close range ship. That means it should have better agility and more speed than the t1 version (Thorax). Granted we dont want a second vagabond but still theres things here that doesnt add up. Finally a word about pg on the ships. I can see why its a bit small but I still think that to much powergrid will overpower the ship (once it is within reach). And about fitting 1600 plates on a cruiser? Well it is a module aimed for BS so dont be overly alarmed.. About blasters you might think you should be able to fit Ions and a good tank but Im quite happy with electrons tbh. No a bit more speed and agility for the ships that are supposed to be the real close range ships is the main concern here.

Miklas Laces	Posted - 2006.05.16 12:22:00 - [591] bump, bump Give more powergrid to the Deimos. Or decrease powergrid requirements of med ion blasters.
Aomis	Posted - 2006.05.16 12:34:00 - [592] /signed
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.05.16 12:53:00 - [593] ehm this thread isn't about overpowering a deimos, it's about balancing it so that it can compete with other HAC's... If these proposed changes overpower the deimos, then NERF ALL HAC's cuz they're all overpowered
Techyon	Posted - 2006.05.16 12:55:00 - [594] I'll Sign it again, perhaps Tux will check the thread one of these days ------ Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 kbs, ty - Cortes
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.05.16 13:07:00 - [595] Originally by: Techyon I'll Sign it again, perhaps Tux will check the thread one of these days Or maybe he doesn't want to... He replied to Jim Raynor's thread about Assault Launchers within 24 hours. Perhaps the answer he has lined up takes more than a few seconds to write, but I know I've devoted hours to all the posts I have made in this thread and not having a single reply is like a slap in the face.
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.05.16 13:09:00 - [596] Edited by: Deathbarrage on 16/05/2006 13:08:59 Edited by: Deathbarrage on 16/05/2006 13:08:50 Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: Techyon I'll Sign it again, perhaps Tux will check the thread one of these days Or maybe he doesn't want to... He replied to Jim Raynor's thread about Assault Launchers within 24 hours. Perhaps the answer he has lined up takes more than a few seconds to write, but I know I've devoted hours to all the posts I have made in this thread and not having a single reply is like a slap in the face. Maybe the dev's are all caldari ;)
Jon Xylur	Posted - 2006.05.16 14:00:00 - [597] Nah. They are just Caldari's biches. No way they'd ever boost a Gallenet ship unl÷ess they REALLY have to. Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, and not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty - Cortes
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.05.16 14:02:00 - [598] this thread has now officially become to long for the forum to handle
rig0r	Posted - 2006.05.16 15:48:00 - [599] FIX THE FRICKING DEIMOS.
Death Merchant	Posted - 2006.05.16 15:58:00 - [600] Originally by: Hellspawn01 Got a question to the deimos pilots in here that have fitting problems (might be everyone here): Do you have the following skills at lvl5? -Advanced weapon upgrades -Engineering -Energy systems Operation -Energy management -Weapon upgrades -Electronics upgrades If you use plates, then you definately need RCU or a PDU. If you prefer gank, then you will probably use 2x damage mods and 2x energized adaptive nanos. I personaly use a 800mm plate 2x RCU II and 2 passive hardeners and a full set of Ions II. Got about 6 grid spare with very high skills. If you dont have one of the above named skills maxed, then you should do that before you talk about fitting problems. No offense ment. 1st: Yes I do have all of those skill requirements and I still think the deimos needs work(as a close range blaster ship). 2nd: Do you think the deimos is fine as is?

CptEagle	Posted - 2006.05.16 16:09:00 - [601] /signed.... again.
Hydraxian	Posted - 2006.05.16 16:16:00 - [602] /signed
Tulia	Posted - 2006.05.16 16:45:00 - [603] Fix the deimos. The fact that my ishtar tends to move faster is just an insult.
Lucus Ranger	Posted - 2006.05.16 16:48:00 - [604] /signed... Please look into it...
Bexx	Posted - 2006.05.16 22:10:00 - [605] /signed
Harper04	Posted - 2006.05.17 01:02:00 - [606] 2 deimos's in hanger...gimme a reason to take them out to play...
Kunming	Posted - 2006.05.17 09:43:00 - [607] To remind you again, deimos got nerfed with the drone bay nerfage on the thorax. This might have been balancing for the thorax (and I think it sure is) but totally shafted the deimos, which had already lower stats than the thorax just not to overpower the ship. The nerf allowed the ishtar to take up its role as the true drone HAC (not many ppl used to fly an ishtar back in the time when you could carry heavy drones on the deimos) I guess the devs forgot about the pre-nerfed stats of the deimos when nerfing its drone bay together with the thorax... at least thats what I think happened. Now the deimos cant perform its role as a blaster boat because of its worse-than-thorax stats (which were justifable when the ship used to spam heavy drones too). TBH I dont want more dronage on the deimos, thats what the ishtar is for. Either gimme more, much more dmg for putting my self in such a stupidly dangerous position (unlike the vaga, deimos cant run away from its target after being webbed and nossed.. its do or die) or speed and agility to get in range faster, or make it immune to jamming or whatever, but at least fix the stats so they are not worse than a thorax.
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.05.17 09:47:00 - [608] No. The Deimos had 1000 metric drone bay (enough for a full dish of medium drones) while the Thorax had 2000 metric. When the Thorax was nerfed to 50 metrics it didn't affect the Deimos at all. The Thorax was cut in half, then divided by 20 in one go. The Deimos was only divided by 20. New sig coming soonÖ Drone musing (MC-boards)
Kunming	Posted - 2006.05.17 10:53:00 - [609] Originally by: Ithildin No. The Deimos had 1000 metric drone bay (enough for a full dish of medium drones) while the Thorax had 2000 metric. When the Thorax was nerfed to 50 metrics it didn't affect the Deimos at all. The Thorax was cut in half, then divided by 20 in one go. The Deimos was only divided by 20. Thinking again you are right actually.. /me runs away in shame Seriously though thats even worse, as it means the devs probably think that the concept is perfectly alright... the concept of a T2 blasterboat which cant perform its role and has worse stats than its T1 version.
Gariuys	Posted - 2006.05.17 11:04:00 - [610] Originally by: Hellspawn01 Got a question to the deimos pilots in here that have fitting problems (might be everyone here): Do you have the following skills at lvl5? -Advanced weapon upgrades -Engineering -Energy systems Operation -Energy management -Weapon upgrades -Electronics upgrades If you use plates, then you definately need RCU or a PDU. If you prefer gank, then you will probably use 2x damage mods and 2x energized adaptive nanos. I personaly use a 800mm plate 2x RCU II and 2 passive hardeners and a full set of Ions II. Got about 6 grid spare with very high skills. If you dont have one of the above named skills maxed, then you should do that before you talk about fitting problems. No offense ment. None taken, but just FYI almost 41mil skillpoints and totally devoted to the Deimos ( branching out now too Astarte ) and Adv. weapon upgrades lvl 5 is completely useless since it doesn't change anything for virtually all deimos setups. ( doesn't let me fit a neutron, doesn't let me remove RCU/PDS ) ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool

Gariuys	Posted - 2006.05.17 11:05:00 - [611] Originally by: Kunming Originally by: Ithildin No. The Deimos had 1000 metric drone bay (enough for a full dish of medium drones) while the Thorax had 2000 metric. When the Thorax was nerfed to 50 metrics it didn't affect the Deimos at all. The Thorax was cut in half, then divided by 20 in one go. The Deimos was only divided by 20. Thinking again you are right actually.. /me runs away in shame Seriously though thats even worse, as it means the devs probably think that the concept is perfectly alright... the concept of a T2 blasterboat which cant perform its role and has worse stats than its T1 version. That's cause when they where first introduced ( which was over 18 months ago ) the deimos was weaker then the others, but by a small margin. As things are currently this is no longer the case. And it's insanely hard to fit compaired to all other HACs and command ships. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Yuzzuf	Posted - 2006.05.17 14:57:00 - [612] I'll sign this request as well. I think most of us agree that the idea of Deimos is fun and sexeh, but as it stands atm the fun idea is all but ruined. So, a tad more of speed and grid, plz. -Y-
Kunming	Posted - 2006.05.19 12:46:00 - [613] Every other serious ship thread got a dev response. Either Tux has something very delicate on his mind or has nothing on his mind about the deimos; I'm affraid its more the latter. I dont even bother login in anymore.. hell why should I? I cant play the game how I want, I wanna fight close and personal in a HAC, train for a vagabond you say? I think not. Bah, not even gonna check forums anymore, they get you really ****ed off..
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.05.19 12:49:00 - [614] The long threds hasn't gotten responses, you'll notice. The guy who made the Nighthawk thred got his thred to page 15 with no response, and then made a new one. Three or four posts into the new thred Tuxford said he'd put the Nighthawk on his list of things to look at. New sig coming soonÖ Drone musing (MC-boards)
Angus Torg	Posted - 2006.05.19 12:51:00 - [615] Look at the Deimos price. It's as high as for the "good" HACs. Why would it need to be changed then, if people seem to use it?
Gariuys	Posted - 2006.05.19 13:10:00 - [616] Originally by: Angus Torg Look at the Deimos price. It's as high as for the "good" HACs. Why would it need to be changed then, if people seem to use it? Yes sales figures should decide balance... hmm is that a freaking huge nerfbat coming right at the blackbird??? Or should balance be ehm BALANCED? ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Gariuys	Posted - 2006.05.19 13:11:00 - [617] Originally by: Kunming Every other serious ship thread got a dev response. Either Tux has something very delicate on his mind or has nothing on his mind about the deimos; I'm affraid its more the latter. I dont even bother login in anymore.. hell why should I? I cant play the game how I want, I wanna fight close and personal in a HAC, train for a vagabond you say? I think not. Bah, not even gonna check forums anymore, they get you really ****ed off.. Train for a Astarte, even slower then a deimos, but atleast you can fit it decently, which is something. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.05.19 13:19:00 - [618] give deimos the ability to fit 5x ion T2 : Medium Nos MWD T2 : webber : 20km Med Rep T2 : 800mm plate T2 : 2dmg mods : 1 EXP hard T2 : 1 energized adaptive T2 -------------------Sig----------------------- welcome to eve, a game for the unemployed, the t2 bpo winners, GTC sellers, macro miners and agent *****s
Adrian Kerensky	Posted - 2006.05.19 13:54:00 - [619] Does anyone else think it is OBCENE that there has not been a dev response to this thread when considering the length of it and how long it has been here? The Deimos is the only HAC that can't fit a full rack of the largest calibre of it's intended weapons (cept maybe 720s on a muninn but can't remember). It is supposed to be a blaster boat and yet has a laughable base speed. She has lower base stats than a thorax! I trained for a deimos...am now trianing for a zealot - go figure.
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.05.19 14:01:00 - [620] Originally by: Gronsak give deimos the ability to fit 5x ion T2 : Medium Nos MWD T2 : webber : 20km Med Rep T2 : 800mm plate T2 : 2dmg mods : 1 EXP hard T2 : 1 energized adaptive T2 erm... no?

Ithildin	Posted - 2006.05.19 14:03:00 - [621] Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Gronsak give deimos the ability to fit 5x ion T2 : Medium Nos MWD T2 : webber : 20km Med Rep T2 : 800mm plate T2 : 2dmg mods : 1 EXP hard T2 : 1 energized adaptive T2 erm... no? Elaborate, please. If we ignore the nosferatu, every other HAC can fit an equivalently demanding set up and more. (On a Zealot a "similar" setup also includes the NOS) New sig coming soonÖ Drone musing (MC-boards)
Necrologic	Posted - 2006.05.19 16:55:00 - [622] Bump. Come on Tux. This is supposed to be your job, isn't it?
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.05.19 17:03:00 - [623] Originally by: Necrologic Bump. Come on Tux. This is supposed to be your job, isn't it? Tux's job is to add missile hardpoint on every ships and missile bonuses, not tweak ships to make them better. Petwraith ♥ me. I make sigs
Necrologic	Posted - 2006.05.19 17:05:00 - [624] Originally by: KilROCK Originally by: Necrologic Bump. Come on Tux. This is supposed to be your job, isn't it? Tux's job is to add missile hardpoint on every ships and missile bonuses, not tweak ships to make them better. Damn, good point.
Lucus Ranger	Posted - 2006.05.19 17:12:00 - [625]
Capsicum	Posted - 2006.05.19 17:15:00 - [626] I suspect the changes in the new patch are going to vastly improve the Diemos :) forum rules \| [email protected] \| Our new Website!
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.05.19 17:17:00 - [627] Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Gronsak give deimos the ability to fit 5x ion T2 : Medium Nos MWD T2 : webber : 20km Med Rep T2 : 800mm plate T2 : 2dmg mods : 1 EXP hard T2 : 1 energized adaptive T2 erm... no? Elaborate, please. If we ignore the nosferatu, every other HAC can fit an equivalently demanding set up and more. (On a Zealot a "similar" setup also includes the NOS) If the zealot uses it's worst guns then yes it can fit a nos and 800. The otherside of the coin is that it has no drone bay (deimos can add 5 hammerhead IIs to it's damage output) and it's only 2 damage types (em and thermal) are the most hardened on 90% of armour tanks. It's the age old saying in EVE: those who can't gank, tank. And those who can't tank, are flying minmatar :)
Necrologic	Posted - 2006.05.19 17:19:00 - [628] Originally by: Capsicum I suspect the changes in the new patch are going to vastly improve the Diemos :) The changes are going to slightly improve blasters, which will only help the deimos in so far as it uses blasters. But the deimos has plenty of problems compared to other ships that are totally independent of the problems blasters have compared to other weapons.
Necrologic	Posted - 2006.05.19 17:20:00 - [629] Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Gronsak give deimos the ability to fit 5x ion T2 : Medium Nos MWD T2 : webber : 20km Med Rep T2 : 800mm plate T2 : 2dmg mods : 1 EXP hard T2 : 1 energized adaptive T2 erm... no? Elaborate, please. If we ignore the nosferatu, every other HAC can fit an equivalently demanding set up and more. (On a Zealot a "similar" setup also includes the NOS) If the zealot uses it's worst guns then yes it can fit a nos and 800. The otherside of the coin is that it has no drone bay (deimos can add 5 hammerhead IIs to it's damage output) and it's only 2 damage types (em and thermal) are the most hardened on 90% of armour tanks. It's the age old saying in EVE: those who can't gank, tank. And those who can't tank, are flying minmatar :) I agree with Sarmaul. Take the above setup and remove the 800 plate and it's more in line.
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.05.19 17:24:00 - [630] Originally by: Capsicum I suspect the changes in the new patch are going to vastly improve the Diemos :) Won't be able to fit neutrons. Crap, crap, Megacrap. Unless you know something i don't know about the upcoming patches.. The cap reduction and 'other blaster' changes along with Neutron PG reduction won't mean a thing. Petwraith ♥ me. I make sigs

Ithildin	Posted - 2006.05.19 18:44:00 - [631] Edited by: Ithildin on 19/05/2006 18:46:15 Edited by: Ithildin on 19/05/2006 18:44:44 Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Gronsak give deimos the ability to fit 5x ion T2 : Medium Nos MWD T2 : webber : 20km Med Rep T2 : 800mm plate T2 : 2dmg mods : 1 EXP hard T2 : 1 energized adaptive T2 erm... no? Elaborate, please. If we ignore the nosferatu, every other HAC can fit an equivalently demanding set up and more. (On a Zealot a "similar" setup also includes the NOS) If the zealot uses it's worst guns then yes it can fit a nos and 800. The otherside of the coin is that it has no drone bay (deimos can add 5 hammerhead IIs to it's damage output) and it's only 2 damage types (em and thermal) are the most hardened on 90% of armour tanks. It's the age old saying in EVE: those who can't gank, tank. And those who can't tank, are flying minmatar :) I've been flying Gallente since I started and I so seldom get to fit a proper tank... Also, just to prove my point, I made a Zealot fitting that is a direct analogy of what Gronsak wrote, this setup could even find room for a T2 Medium Armour repairer, albeit at the cost of one low slot (which it had one left over the Deimos). HIGH-SLOTS : ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > [ 175 \| 20] Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I > [ 118 \| 21] Focused Medium Pulse Laser II > [ 118 \| 21] Focused Medium Pulse Laser II > [ 118 \| 21] Focused Medium Pulse Laser II > [ 118 \| 21] Focused Medium Pulse Laser II MED-SLOTS : ~~~~~~~~~~~ > [ 165 \| 50] 10MN MicroWarpdrive II > [ 1 \| 36] Fleeting Warp Scrambler I > [ 1 \| 23] Patterned Stasis Web I LOW-SLOTS : ~~~~~~~~~~~ > [ 1 \| 44] Armor Thermic Hardener II > [ 230 \| 28] 800mm Reinforced Steel Plates II > [ 2 \| 30] Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II > [ 173 \| 28] Medium Armor Repairer II > [ 1 \| 30] Heat Sink II > [ 1 \| 30] Heat Sink II > [ 1 \| 0] Co-Processor II This setup isn't optimal and most people won't like it, mainly because it doesn't feature Heavy Pulse Lasers. Granted that there is only two kinds of pulse lasers for each category, but the largest pulse laser is comparable to only Neutrons and never Ions. As for the Zealot setup that is perhaps more efficient, I would lose the nosferatu and change to Heavy Beams, change the MWD to an afterburner and downgrade the 800mm plate to a rolled tungsten (although those don't drop, so it'd have to be a crystalline) due to one CPU unit missing. This setup will outperform the Deimos at all times and in nearly all concievable situations - I'm even willing to bet on one of those silly 1v1 between the ships discussed. Bottom line is that it is entirely possible to fit most other HACs in similarly demanding (namely middling weapon system) setups, and then some more! EDIT: Actually I didn't spot the med rep T2 on Gronsak's list. I'd say that lose the plate in favour of a low-fitting module such as a CPR and his setup is a VERY reasonable request New sig coming soonÖ Drone musing (MC-boards)
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.05.19 18:48:00 - [632] I probably shouldn't bring up the 1600mm duramuninn I'll be flying when assault missiles make it in
Necrologic	Posted - 2006.05.19 22:35:00 - [633] Originally by: Sarmaul I probably shouldn't bring up the 1600mm duramuninn I'll be flying when assault missiles make it in That's not gonna be cool...
Techyon	Posted - 2006.05.20 00:06:00 - [634] Edited by: Techyon on 20/05/2006 00:09:24 Edited by: Techyon on 20/05/2006 00:08:42 Edited by: Techyon on 20/05/2006 00:08:04 Originally by: Capsicum I suspect the changes in the new patch are going to vastly improve the Diemos :) No I don't think they will. The 15% less CPU usage is nice for the Deimos and the 30% less cap usage is always welcome, that is true. But the real problem which lies with its powergrid is not solved. Example : 236 PG (current Neutron II) 212.4 PG (Neutron II after changes) 212.4 * 0.9 (lvl 5 Advanced weapon upgrades) = 191.16 PG 191.16 * 5 (Neutron II's) = 995.8 PG Deimos PG with max skills : 1075 1075-995.8 = 79.2 Hmmmmmm, 79.2 PG left.. That will definitly get me somewhere.... right?.... right?......pls?... nope! You would still need to fit atleast 1 RCU to get a MWD on or 2 RCU's if you want a MWD + Med rep. So 2 RCU + Med rep II, only 3 slots left. Ok I need an exp hard or dmg control.. leaves 2. Euhm 2x mag stab... damn where's my cap gone? hmm 1x mag stab 1x cpr.. where's my damage? ** it, I'll use Ion II's On the Deimos the MWD and Med rep are essential for combat. It could be me but imo a T2 ship shouldn't need 2 RCU's to make it usable. The cap Neutrons use is penalty enough, not being able to fit them with a viable setup is crap. Below this line I assume the Deimos got a nice PG boost. Allowing it as though a miracle to use 5x Neutron II, MWD, Med Rep II without or with 1 RCU. There is another problem which lies with Neutron blasters themselves... If my Deimos would have enough grid for 5x Neutron II, MWD + Med rep t2 I would probably still use Ion T2's. Why? well take a look at this : On a Deimos with maxed skills using no damage mods and no drones you get 5x Neutron II : 461 DPS 5x Ion II : 432 DPS Thats a 6.7% gain in DPS from Ion II's to Neutron II's. Is this enough to justify Neutron II's over Ion II's ? ( It might also be intersting to note that the difference between Focused Pulse II's and Heavy Pulse II's is aprox 15.7% Or that the difference between 220's and 425's is aprox 5%. Yep minnies are getting royally **.. useless 425's ) Is it enough?** Ok so there are a few extra things to take into account. Like the added range Neutrons have. Yes they do reach out a bit further, but the tracking is worse as is the cap use. Not to mention that if you could fit 5x neutron II, MWD, med rep II.. I'd probably rather have : 5x Ion II, MWD, Med Rep II + a plate for more survivability. Because somewhere I get a fuzzy feeling that being able to use a 800mm plate along with the Ion II, MWD and Med rep II gets you alot more than being able to do 30 dps more but not having the plate. My fuzzy feeling could be wrong but I don't think so. Got a bit carried away there and half should perhaps be in the blaster balancing thread but... ------ Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 kbs, ty - Cortes
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.05.20 00:09:00 - [635] Originally by: Capsicum I suspect the changes in the new patch are going to vastly improve the Diemos :) The thing is that these changes effect the CPU on blasters, the cap use on blasters and the powergrid use on Neutron blasters. However, the Deimos doesn't have enough grid to fit Ion blasters anyway so the CPU change means nothing. Coupled with the fact that she is crippling slow for something designed for close-range combat and you have a recipe that simply doesn't add up. The Command Ships are harder to train for, yet I consistently see more Astartes than I do the Deimos. Go figure...
Hellspawn01	Posted - 2006.05.20 00:12:00 - [636] Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: Capsicum I suspect the changes in the new patch are going to vastly improve the Diemos :) The thing is that these changes effect the CPU on blasters, the cap use on blasters and the powergrid use on Neutron blasters. However, the Deimos doesn't have enough grid to fit Ion blasters anyway so the CPU change means nothing. Coupled with the fact that she is crippling slow for something designed for close-range combat and you have a recipe that simply doesn't add up. The Command Ships are harder to train for, yet I consistently see more Astartes than I do the Deimos. Go figure... Contact me ingame for my deimos setup that does everything that you miss. Ship lovers click here
Hellspawn01	Posted - 2006.05.20 00:20:00 - [637] Originally by: Gronsak give deimos the ability to fit 5x ion T2 : Medium Nos MWD T2 : webber : 20km Med Rep T2 : 800mm plate T2 : 2dmg mods : 1 EXP hard T2 : 1 energized adaptive T2 My setup comes very close to that but you need very good skills for grid usage. Ship lovers click here
ThunderGodThor	Posted - 2006.05.20 00:41:00 - [638] Originally by: Capsicum I suspect the changes in the new patch are going to vastly improve the Diemos :) Patch notes. Helps if you know the the F* you are talking about Capsicum. Would also be a GOOD IDEA for you to read those patch notes. Well we might be getting some where as now finnaly at least a mod has posted tho it wasnt construtive and only **ed me off. On to the matter at had. Deimos still lacks any chance at fitting ions and a med nos. Odds are either as a short term fix of droping the pg requirments one med ions by say 25 or so would do it. Then later increase the PG of the Diemos by about 100 or so. Some one do the numbers on how much grid you'd get with that increase after skills. We also have the problem with the ship being slower then the tech 1 counterpart the rax. That and it flys like a brick.
Deviana Sevidon	Posted - 2006.05.20 06:01:00 - [639] Sad, but true. The Patch won't help the Deimos all. I respectfully ask again for a response from Tuxford about the Deimos. The Megathron is not the only Ship with Problems fitting Blasters, and frankly, the Deimos is in a more dire need of help.
tenp1	Posted - 2006.05.20 07:12:00 - [640] The deimos is fine and I have no more trouble fitting it than i do with the other 7 Hacs. It's may be more dificult to fit to gank/tank with plate/extender than the likes of a zealot, but then the zealot does far less damage, has fixed damage type no drones and 1 less turret. What the zealot lacks in flexibility it makes up for in specialisation, the deimos is a bit more flexible so has a bit more trouble fitting, simple as. Try fitting a vagabond like a deimos and then rethink your fitting issues. As far as the speed thing is concerned, it's no doubt there to give other ships a chance to do some damage or run, as once the deimos is in blaster range it will cause a world of pain.

Kuro Hayashi	Posted - 2006.05.20 08:21:00 - [641] Originally by: tenp1 Edited by: tenp1 on 20/05/2006 07:41:35 The deimos is fine and I have no more trouble fitting it than i do with the other 7 Hacs. It's may be more dificult to fit to gank/tank with plate/extender than the likes of a zealot, but then the zealot does less damage, has fixed damage type no drones and 1 less turret. What the zealot lacks in flexibility it makes up for in specialisation, the deimos is a bit more flexible so has a bit more trouble fitting, simple as. Hybrid Turrets do Kin/Therm. Laser Turrets do EM/Therm. Both have fixed damage types. The Deimos gets a 50 m3 drone bay to add additional damage types. That is, however, because it is a Gallente ship. Amarr ships, conversely, have better armor tanking ability. Your argument that Zealots have no drone bay would be similar to a Gallente arguing that the Deimos doesn't get the armor bonus of a Zealot. To my knowledge that hasn't happened in this thread. On the argument of flexibility. A Deimos' bonuses are to damage, MWD Cap penalty reduction, and falloff. A Zealot's bonuses are to Med Energy Turret cap use, Med Energy Turret RoF, Med Energy Turret optimal, and Med Energy Turret damage. The bonuses that a Deimos gets are that of a blastership. If a Deimos pilot opts to use railguns, they effectively negate one of their bonuses. Furthermore, the MWD cap penalty reduction isn't really a bonus at all; MWD cap penalty reduction is a decrease in a penalty. So it is that the Deimos is resigned to the role of blastership. Deimos pilots know this before they decide to acquire the ship. However, the ship itself does not offer any additional flexibility and instead is less flexibile than a Zealot. Quote: The vagabond is similar as well, it may be able to fit a plate and tank but at the expense of doing even less damage and a lot less HP. As far as the speed thing is concerned, it's no doubt there to give other ships a chance to do some damage or run, as once the deimos is in blaster range it will cause a world of pain. Here again you prove that the flexibility of a Deimos, as well as effectiveness, is reduced. Being resigned to the role of blasterboat, a lack of adequate speed results in inability to perform in its designated role. The Deimos attempts to compensate with a MWD cap penalty reduction. The use of the MWD results in A) an increase in sig radius and B) heavy reduction of total cap pool. The increased sig radius causes the Deimos to take more damage for the duration of the MWD cycle, and the cap use means the Deimos pilot must defeat its opponent quickly. So the net result is that other ships, which you claim do less damage, will do more damage to the Deimos. The Deimos, with lowered speed from that of a Thorax, uses more cap to get in range. So it takes more damage, and cannot tank the damage as long due to use of capacitor in getting to its target. The aforementioned problems are not resolved with the upcoming blaster changes. The problems are inherent within the ship itself. If an increase in speed and agility are unrealistic, an increase in PG is essential in order to compensate for fitting a MWD (NOS/Cap injector). A practicioner of Unsensical thought.
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.05.20 09:55:00 - [642] Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Gronsak give deimos the ability to fit 5x ion T2 : Medium Nos MWD T2 : webber : 20km Med Rep T2 : 800mm plate T2 : 2dmg mods : 1 EXP hard T2 : 1 energized adaptive T2 erm... no? close range ships! HACs really do need more HP in the form of plates/extenders or they die far to fast! vaga: 2 shield extenders + viable setup + nos proof +15km operational range zealot: 4 pulse with more than 30km optimal t2 ammo, so it shouldnt even be here its mid range not close, but on top of that, a med nos, med rep, and a 800mm plate [iirc there are also good workable 1600mm plate setups] deimos: needs to get into that 10km web range no choice about it = takes most dmg, has the highest cap use! slowest, highest sig, highest mass, the very few times i pvp in a deimos, i end up with electrons + no plate + empty 6th high or small nos, also i find deimos easiest to kill and tank! -------------------Sig----------------------- welcome to eve, a game for the unemployed, the t2 bpo winners, GTC sellers, macro miners and agent *****s
Techyon	Posted - 2006.05.20 11:34:00 - [643] I disagree with the Deimos being able to fit 5x Ion II, Med Nos - MWD II - Med Rep II and 800mm plate II That would come down to 1533 PG. (Without advanced weapon upgrades) Imo it should be able to fit 5x Ion II, Med Nos - MWD II - Med rep II. So without the plate. This comes down to : 1303 PG without Advanced weapon upgrades. Imo the Base grid of the Deimos should be changed from 860 to 1040 PG. This results in 1075 to 1300 PG respectively. With 1300 PG and AWU lvl 1 you could fit the above. You can choose extra defense in the form of a 800mm plate by installing an RCU. Also with 1300 PG the Neutron Deimos because more viable : 5x Neutron II (with the 10% reduction in grid) = 1062 PG MWD II = 165 PG To fit a Med rep with that would take an RCU, which I think is ok. A setup could be : 5x Neutron II, Small NOS MWD II, web, scram RCU, Med rep II, exp hard, 2x mag stab, cpr/nano/3rd magstab. But I'm not sure thats possible CPU wise. ------ Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 kbs, ty - Cortes
Death Merchant	Posted - 2006.05.21 07:03:00 - [644] Still nothing from dev's eh? Well at least theyre fixing Tachyons, and nerfing NOS..
Deviana Sevidon	Posted - 2006.05.22 10:58:00 - [645] The best Idea would be to abandon this Thread and start a new one. From my observations no Dev is responding to a Thread that has grown beyond a certain number of pages. Oh, and don't forget the word "Tuxford" in the Title, or it has a high chance of being ignored. Sorry. I don't mean trolling, but I am really upset that there has been no response and this Thread has been active for several month.
Bacchuss	Posted - 2006.05.22 11:10:00 - [646] Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Gronsak give deimos the ability to fit 5x ion T2 : Medium Nos MWD T2 : webber : 20km Med Rep T2 : 800mm plate T2 : 2dmg mods : 1 EXP hard T2 : 1 energized adaptive T2 erm... no? Elaborate, please. If we ignore the nosferatu, every other HAC can fit an equivalently demanding set up and more. (On a Zealot a "similar" setup also includes the NOS) If the zealot uses it's worst guns then yes it can fit a nos and 800. The otherside of the coin is that it has no drone bay (deimos can add 5 hammerhead IIs to it's damage output) and it's only 2 damage types (em and thermal) are the most hardened on 90% of armour tanks. It's the age old saying in EVE: those who can't gank, tank. And those who can't tank, are flying minmatar :) sry but EM is least tanked thing on armor tanked ships ************************************ "What you gonna do, when I come for yoU?!" ************************************
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.05.22 11:53:00 - [647] about zealot being weaker: Zealot does about the same DPS as a deimos at a higher range with a better armor tank zealot can fit 4x heavy pulse a med nos and a medium armor repper and an mwd no problem to everyone saying EM dmg is useless vs armor tank: usually on an armor tanked ship all the resistances are about 80% so it's a stupid argument, respectively on BS alot of people fit expl/kin/therm hardeners leaving their EM as their lowest resistance. Please look at this thread devs, thanks
Alex SOKOLOFF	Posted - 2006.05.22 11:56:00 - [648] signed
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.05.23 19:19:00 - [649] Just a bump more than anything else. We had a patch today which covered a few of Tux's changes, but several are still to make it in (Gallente Recons getting a stronger bonus?). Maybe this can be squeezed in too.
Nybbas	Posted - 2006.05.23 19:46:00 - [650] whats funny is if you read the description of a vagabond, it mentions its low powergrid and how it cant fit the biggest guns... yet it only has 5 less base grid than a deimos... isnt expected to fit an armor tank, its guns use half the grid to fit... isnt 100% required to fit a mwd... uh huh... it wasnt neutrons that needed grid reductions, it was the deimos that needs a grid boost, they just successfully boosted astartes more, while doing virtually nothing for the deimos.

Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.05.23 19:56:00 - [651] Originally by: Nybbas whats funny is if you read the description of a vagabond, it mentions its low powergrid and how it cant fit the biggest guns... yet it only has 5 less base grid than a deimos... isnt expected to fit an armor tank, its guns use half the grid to fit... isnt 100% required to fit a mwd... uh huh... it wasnt neutrons that needed grid reductions, it was the deimos that needs a grid boost, they just successfully boosted astartes more, while doing virtually nothing for the deimos. I completely agree. It's the Deimos that needs looking at, not the blasters.
Asurix	Posted - 2006.05.23 19:58:00 - [652] Originally by: Nybbas whats funny is if you read the description of a vagabond, it mentions its low powergrid and how it cant fit the biggest guns... yet it only has 5 less base grid than a deimos... isnt expected to fit an armor tank, its guns use half the grid to fit... isnt 100% required to fit a mwd... uh huh... it wasnt neutrons that needed grid reductions, it was the deimos that needs a grid boost, they just successfully boosted astartes more, while doing virtually nothing for the deimos. Signed Nyb, Deimos needs more PG, more speed more agility and a sig reduction, period. Deimos = gimped Blasterthron ATM
Tulia	Posted - 2006.05.24 01:33:00 - [653] Just tried to fit 5 neutrons to the deimos post patch, still came up short on grid. Overall it just doesn't have the juice to fit what it needs. Deimos is about damage [insert here: Neutrons] closing in fast [insert here: MWD bonus on ship] and killing before it gets killed [insert here: even a light tank is necessary] However, the best I can fit is ions. I will say this, though... the patch made it oh so easy to fit neutrons on my ishtar
Mather Maelstrom	Posted - 2006.05.24 07:32:00 - [654] Edited by: Mather Maelstrom on 24/05/2006 07:33:04 oops delete pls //No Pro Gallente RP, no Coreli & Cyrene anymore\\
Mather Maelstrom	Posted - 2006.05.24 07:32:00 - [655] LOL, I think every other hac, but the deimos can fit heavy neutrons now. //No Pro Gallente RP, no Coreli & Cyrene anymore\\
Nybbas	Posted - 2006.05.24 07:58:00 - [656] Originally by: Tulia Just tried to fit 5 neutrons to the deimos post patch, still came up short on grid. Overall it just doesn't have the juice to fit what it needs. Deimos is about damage [insert here: Neutrons] closing in fast [insert here: MWD bonus on ship] and killing before it gets killed [insert here: even a light tank is necessary] However, the best I can fit is ions. I will say this, though... the patch made it oh so easy to fit neutrons on my ishtar ....omg you are right switches the light nosf for a medium
Deviana Sevidon	Posted - 2006.05.25 08:13:00 - [657] One bump for the Devs that rule all. One bump for them to find this thread. One bump so the Deimos gets fixed at all.
Friendly	Posted - 2006.05.26 09:12:00 - [658] 'Friendly' bump, cause the blaster changes didn't help my Deimos setup at all... still cant fit 5x t2 Ions, named MWD and some form of tanking, without having to resort to a fitting mod.
Kunming	Posted - 2006.05.28 08:27:00 - [659] Another point is deimos has a bonus to cover a penalty, which is not really a bonus compared to what the other HACs have.. MWD cap penalty reduction!! AND, which is even more important, you still get a penalty for your cap (-6% or so) so in the end it doesnt get a bonus but a reduction in a penalty thats not even lifted completely while other HACs DO get a bonus. ADD TO THIS The fact its slower than a thorax, gets out dmged by longer range HACs and there is no reason to fly a deimos over a thorax, a zealot or a vagabond. So will the DEVs finally have a look at this ship or is Tuxford too busy thinking how to nerf gallente more I heard there is a drone nerf coming, fix the god damn bugs on the drones first..
Techyon	Posted - 2006.05.28 08:32:00 - [660] Good point about the bonus Kunming.. imo it could use a tad more, like for example the Vindicator. So that it gains a tad of cap with an mwd fitted. This would help a bit for the Deimos but what it really needs is a more PG and a bit more speed and agility. Please take a look at the Deimos Tuxford, by now I am sure you have seen the thread(s). /me wants to be able to look at the Deimos and not have to realize it isn't what its supposed to be. ------

Ganandorf	Posted - 2006.05.29 14:51:00 - [661] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Sarmaul no, top tier artillery powergrid needs need lowering. the muninn has no issues fitting autos, just artillery, so it's the artillery that are at fault. Thats pretty much the thing. As it is then the difference in powergrid requirement between artillery and autocannons is too much. That means that if we want a ship to use artillery we have to give it a lot of grid but that makes it have almost endless grid if you fit the same ship with autocannons. If I were to do that I would probably need to go over most of the minmatar ships and take back a little bit of grid I gave them almost a year ago. And yes I'm aware of how hard it it to fit muninn with howitzers, waits for the inevitable Boost Deimos's grid!!!!1111 reply notes Tux laughing at us ^^
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.05.30 12:13:00 - [662] Originally by: Ganandorf Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Sarmaul no, top tier artillery powergrid needs need lowering. the muninn has no issues fitting autos, just artillery, so it's the artillery that are at fault. Thats pretty much the thing. As it is then the difference in powergrid requirement between artillery and autocannons is too much. That means that if we want a ship to use artillery we have to give it a lot of grid but that makes it have almost endless grid if you fit the same ship with autocannons. If I were to do that I would probably need to go over most of the minmatar ships and take back a little bit of grid I gave them almost a year ago. And yes I'm aware of how hard it it to fit muninn with howitzers, waits for the inevitable Boost Deimos's grid!!!!1111 reply notes Tux laughing at us ^^
Gariuys	Posted - 2006.05.30 12:15:00 - [663] He posted in another thread that he'd look into it. So in a year or two we'll hear the deimos isn't getting any loving, but the vagabond had it's speed boosted. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.05.30 12:24:00 - [664] Originally by: Gariuys He posted in another thread that he'd look into it. So in a year or two we'll hear the deimos isn't getting any loving, but the vagabond had it's speed boosted. Heh, well Tux if you're reading this - stop posting in other threads and post in this one for once dammit!
Rambo Armsdealer	Posted - 2006.05.30 12:27:00 - [665] Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: Gariuys He posted in another thread that he'd look into it. So in a year or two we'll hear the deimos isn't getting any loving, but the vagabond had it's speed boosted. Heh, well Tux if you're reading this - stop posting in other threads and post in this one for once dammit! amen
Miklas Laces	Posted - 2006.05.31 09:45:00 - [666] You all complain too much, the Deimos is very easy to fit, you just have to train up skills. With ALL skills at lvl5 you can easily fit: 5x Ion blaster II 1x 10MN Microwarpdrive II 1x Medium Armor Repairer II 8x empty slot Or if you want to go extreme, the following setup is a bit tight but FITS, thanks to the recent blaster changes: 5x Neutron Blaster II 1x Medium Armor Repairer II 9x empty slot and you still have 2.0 powergrid to play with !!
Asurix	Posted - 2006.05.31 10:12:00 - [667] Originally by: Miklas Laces You all complain too much, the Deimos is very easy to fit, you just have to train up skills. With ALL skills at lvl5 you can easily fit: 5x Ion blaster II 1x 10MN Microwarpdrive II 1x Medium Armor Repairer II 8x empty slot Or if you want to go extreme, the following setup is a bit tight but FITS, thanks to the recent blaster changes: 5x Neutron Blaster II 1x Medium Armor Repairer II 9x empty slot and you still have 2.0 powergrid to play with !! sarcasm ftw

Tuxford	Posted - 2006.05.31 10:18:00 - [668] Wow long thread. If it makes you feel any better then I've noticed it and I'll look into it. _______________

Asurix	Posted - 2006.05.31 10:25:00 - [669] Originally by: Tuxford Wow long thread. If it makes you feel any better then I've noticed it and I'll look into it. praise! finally Dash we've made it hehe
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.05.31 10:26:00 - [670] Edited by: KilROCK on 31/05/2006 10:26:42 Originally by: Tuxford Wow long thread. If it makes you feel any better then I've noticed it and I'll look into it. Next patch, Deimos gets a missile hardpoint. Petwraith ♥ me. I make sigs

Tiuwaz	Posted - 2006.05.31 10:30:00 - [671] you are secretly training caldari already anyways, admit it Kilrock Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Paigan	Posted - 2006.05.31 10:33:00 - [672] Originally by: Tuxford Wow long thread. If it makes you feel any better then I've noticed it and I'll look into it. hurray! after pretty exactely 6 months of pleading and discussing, there is light at the end of the tunnel! Thx very much, Tux =) -- This game is still in beta stage
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.05.31 10:34:00 - [673] Originally by: Tiuwaz you are secretly training caldari already anyways, admit it Kilrock Hell no, I might get Caldari battleship 4 when the tier 3 battleships comes out, to use t2 rail/blasters on it, but that's about it Petwraith ♥ me. I make sigs
Gariuys	Posted - 2006.05.31 10:36:00 - [674] Originally by: KilROCK Edited by: KilROCK on 31/05/2006 10:26:42 Originally by: Tuxford Wow long thread. If it makes you feel any better then I've noticed it and I'll look into it. Next patch, Deimos gets a missile hardpoint. If that happens, I'm 100% positive every deimos pilot would drop a freighterload of void in Tuxfords belly... so doubt he'll do that. ;-) ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.05.31 10:42:00 - [675] Originally by: Gariuys Originally by: KilROCK Edited by: KilROCK on 31/05/2006 10:26:42 Originally by: Tuxford Wow long thread. If it makes you feel any better then I've noticed it and I'll look into it. Next patch, Deimos gets a missile hardpoint. If that happens, I'm 100% positive every deimos pilot would drop a freighterload of void in Tuxfords belly... so doubt he'll do that. ;-) You're right, Zealot is due for one tho. Cmon tux, cmon cmon cmon! Petwraith ♥ me. I make sigs
Jaketh Ivanes	Posted - 2006.05.31 11:06:00 - [676] Originally by: Kunming Another point is deimos has a bonus to cover a penalty, which is not really a bonus compared to what the other HACs have.. MWD cap penalty reduction!! AND, which is even more important, you still get a penalty for your cap (-6% or so) so in the end it doesnt get a bonus but a reduction in a penalty thats not even lifted completely while other HACs DO get a bonus. ADD TO THIS The fact its slower than a thorax, gets out dmged by longer range HACs and there is no reason to fly a deimos over a thorax, a zealot or a vagabond. So will the DEVs finally have a look at this ship or is Tuxford too busy thinking how to nerf gallente more I heard there is a drone nerf coming, fix the god damn bugs on the drones first.. The reduction IS a bonus. Otherwise, all Amarrian ships only get 1 bonus, and the 10% cap reduction for laser turrets is just a joke? A bonus is something that increases something.. and going from -500 to -250 is still an increase.
Gariuys	Posted - 2006.05.31 11:20:00 - [677] A bonus makes soemthing better. That's true, but NOT fitting a mwd is better for your cap then do fitting it. So in that way, is it really a bonus? Not that I don't like it, but it's also a extremely limited bonus, cause if you don't fit a mwd, there is no bonus. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
FFGR	Posted - 2006.05.31 11:42:00 - [678] And without an MWD, how will you close in the enemy ? With an AB ? MWD bonus is there so your cap for a needed module doesn't kill your tank. _____________________________ siggys v. 0.5
Miklas Laces	Posted - 2006.05.31 12:05:00 - [679] Originally by: FFGR And without an MWD, how will you close in the enemy ? With an AB ? MWD bonus is there so your cap for a needed module doesn't kill your tank. What about changing the bonus to a Mwd/AB bonus ? Something like 5% less penalty to max cap for MWD and 5% bonus to AB speed boost.
R'adeh	Posted - 2006.05.31 12:07:00 - [680] Originally by: Tuxford Wow long thread. If it makes you feel any better then I've noticed it and I'll look into it. \o/ o// \\o \o_ _o/ PS: I want my sig back!!!! "blah blah, we killed you, blah blah, they killed us, blah blah, some more smack blah blah, killboard..." CCP Cortes stole my sig!!!

Jerick Ludhowe	Posted - 2006.05.31 12:22:00 - [681] Originally by: Miklas Laces Originally by: FFGR And without an MWD, how will you close in the enemy ? With an AB ? MWD bonus is there so your cap for a needed module doesn't kill your tank. What about changing the bonus to a Mwd/AB bonus ? Something like 5% less penalty to max cap for MWD and 5% bonus to AB speed boost. I'd rather they just drop the -25% from MWDs and give the thorax line of ships a 5% to mwd max velocity bonuss. Increase BC Agility
Harper04	Posted - 2006.05.31 12:48:00 - [682] Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe Originally by: Miklas Laces Originally by: FFGR And without an MWD, how will you close in the enemy ? With an AB ? MWD bonus is there so your cap for a needed module doesn't kill your tank. What about changing the bonus to a Mwd/AB bonus ? Something like 5% less penalty to max cap for MWD and 5% bonus to AB speed boost. I'd rather they just drop the -25% from MWDs and give the thorax line of ships a 5% to mwd max velocity bonuss. Go pod yourself.
Breed Love	Posted - 2006.05.31 13:20:00 - [683] Originally by: Tuxford Wow long thread. If it makes you feel any better then I've noticed it and I'll look into it. yarrbbq? ------ Originally by: Gazon In any case, the whole affair had one lasting effect: Awarding Stormriders the label of ridiculous drug addicts with a tendency towards utterly foolish actions.
Miklas Laces	Posted - 2006.05.31 13:41:00 - [684] Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe I'd rather they just drop the -25% from MWDs and give the thorax line of ships a 5% to mwd max velocity bonuss. Yes!!! and +5% rof to snowball launcher instead of the useless hybrid damage bonus.
Breed Love	Posted - 2006.05.31 14:15:00 - [685] Edited by: Breed Love on 31/05/2006 14:15:01 Originally by: Miklas Laces Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe I'd rather they just drop the -25% from MWDs and give the thorax line of ships a 5% to mwd max velocity bonuss. Yes!!! and +5% rof to snowball launcher instead of the useless hybrid damage bonus. /signed! edit: and deimos's second damage bonus should then be changed into 5% to snowball damage! ------ Originally by: Gazon In any case, the whole affair had one lasting effect: Awarding Stormriders the label of ridiculous drug addicts with a tendency towards utterly foolish actions.
Toshiro Khan	Posted - 2006.05.31 14:16:00 - [686] Originally by: Miklas Laces Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe I'd rather they just drop the -25% from MWDs and give the thorax line of ships a 5% to mwd max velocity bonuss. Yes!!! and +5% rof to snowball launcher instead of the useless hybrid damage bonus. and lets not forget a 1% rof bonus to capital siege launchers on the deimos as well, instead of that silly fall off bonus.
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.06.01 02:10:00 - [687] Originally by: Tuxford Wow long thread. If it makes you feel any better then I've noticed it and I'll look into it.
HatePeace LoveWar	Posted - 2006.06.01 09:04:00 - [688] BUT BUT BUT WITH DUAL RCU2'S U CAN FIT 5X NEUTRONS AND 3 DMG MODS! ..yea plz look at the deimos :( Carrier & Fighter Sales
Kai Lae	Posted - 2006.06.01 09:28:00 - [689] I'll be happy if I can fit 5 electrons w/ cap booster, med nos, med rep, and MWD without a RCU..as this is now impossible. Raptor and Ares Fix
dralid	Posted - 2006.06.01 09:31:00 - [690] Originally by: Kunming You can not even fit full rack of heavy ion blasters on a deimos, the change on the neutrons will only effect the brutix... [:ugh: -> Uhmm, I have it set up like this, Heavy Ion Blaster II -- All lies!

Techyon	Posted - 2006.06.01 10:37:00 - [691] Finally. Lets hope Tux finds time to look into it before Kali
Raptornas	Posted - 2006.06.01 11:23:00 - [692] Just as I finish Gallante Cruiser V. \o/ __
Bazman	Posted - 2006.06.01 11:37:00 - [693] zomg, this thread has a yellow bar beside it ----- Hi TomB! All out Do or Die Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks.
ThunderGodThor	Posted - 2006.06.07 20:36:00 - [694] Originally by: Tuxford Wow long thread. If it makes you feel any better then I've noticed it and I'll look into it. Yes tux it really does make us all feel better to know that you have at least seen the thread and know about are issues with the ship and its fitting.
Jorund Bork	Posted - 2006.06.24 11:34:00 - [695] Originally by: Tuxford Wow long thread. If it makes you feel any better then I've noticed it and I'll look into it. So Tuxford.... several more weeks and a few more patches down the line, I'm curious as to how the balancing is coming along
Hailstorm GALAXIAN	Posted - 2006.07.18 14:51:00 - [696] Any ETA on balancing this ship Tux? It has been hurting for a while now.
Ichabod Crane Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.18 15:45:00 - [697] Originally by: Kai Lae I'll be happy if I can fit 5 electrons w/ cap booster, med nos, med rep, and MWD without a RCU..as this is now impossible. You dont need an RCU to fit that, I suggest you either retest your setup or look at your skills to see what you're missing. And tbh, as a specialised blaster/deimos pilot, I really have no complaints about being able to fit this ship. Its no more difficult to fit than any other ship of its class, you seriously think a vagabond can fit a full rack of 425mm Autocannon II's without having to make large concessions in its speed or defensive capabilities? And really, comparing grid/cpu on an astarte to that of a deimos is like comparing a frigate and a destroyer. Their roles are completely different and they're a different class of ships, saying the deimos should be easier to fit because there is a huge difference in powergrid/cpu is like advocating that cruisers should have comparable grid to a battleship Dont get me wrong, I'd be the last one to complain about the deimos being boosted. But it honestly isnt required IMO, its not like the ship is crippled as it is. -
Dash Ripcock Caldari 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.08.03 09:06:00 - [698] So... what news from the big, bad balancing house?
Pattern Clarc Dark Destiny Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.03 10:12:00 - [699] Originally by: Tuxford Posted - 31/05/2006 10:18:00 Wow long thread. If it makes you feel any better then I've noticed it and I'll look into it. ? Roden Shipyards? MWD cap penalty?
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.08.03 10:40:00 - [700] Originally by: Ichabod Crane Originally by: Kai Lae I'll be happy if I can fit 5 electrons w/ cap booster, med nos, med rep, and MWD without a RCU..as this is now impossible. You dont need an RCU to fit that, I suggest you either retest your setup or look at your skills to see what you're missing. And tbh, as a specialised blaster/deimos pilot, I really have no complaints about being able to fit this ship. Its no more difficult to fit than any other ship of its class, you seriously think a vagabond can fit a full rack of 425mm Autocannon II's without having to make large concessions in its speed or defensive capabilities? And really, comparing grid/cpu on an astarte to that of a deimos is like comparing a frigate and a destroyer. Their roles are completely different and they're a different class of ships, saying the deimos should be easier to fit because there is a huge difference in powergrid/cpu is like advocating that cruisers should have comparable grid to a battleship Dont get me wrong, I'd be the last one to complain about the deimos being boosted. But it honestly isnt required IMO, its not like the ship is crippled as it is. fight a zealot/vaga/ishtar and say that again

Izo Azlion Veto.	Posted - 2006.08.03 10:47:00 - [701] Does this mean we might at some point possibly get better fitting stuff on the Deimos? hopes Izo Azlion. --- Veto.
KilROCK Minmatar Angel Deep Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.03 10:55:00 - [702] Why fly a deimos when you got an astarte? Everyone who flew the deimos has one by now, or should have. Still it needs a bit of tweaking. + speed + ability + 50PG base (not exagerations but yea) SMACKING IN A TOPIC NEAR YOU / WTS PILGRIM + CURSE + T2 DRONES PACKS
Bazman Caldari The Establishment	Posted - 2006.08.03 10:58:00 - [703] I can't be arsed training for an Astarte, battlecruiser 5 would make me quit the game (Just finished training 3 Rank 5 Skills to 5 :s) ----- Sig removed, maximum allowed image dimensions are 400x120 and maximum allowed size is 24,000 bytes. Please contact [email protected] for more info (including a copy of your picture!) -wystler Hi TUXFORD! Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks. I am a
KilROCK Minmatar Angel Deep Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:00:00 - [704] Originally by: Bazman I can't be arsed training for an Astarte, battlecruiser 5 would make me quit the game (Just finished training 3 Rank 5 Skills to 5 :s) Wow a month of training from your normal skills? Your Perception and willpower are majorly crap or you're afraid Leadership5 + Squadron command might look horribly long with your crappy civire charisma? If you worry it won't be worth the time investment, think again.. SMACKING IN A TOPIC NEAR YOU / WTS PILGRIM + CURSE + T2 DRONES PACKS
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:04:00 - [705] Originally by: KilROCK Originally by: Bazman I can't be arsed training for an Astarte, battlecruiser 5 would make me quit the game (Just finished training 3 Rank 5 Skills to 5 :s) Wow a month of training from your normal skills? Your Perception and willpower are majorly crap or you're afraid Leadership5 + Squadron command might look horribly long with your crappy civire charisma? If you worry it won't be worth the time investment, think again.. he's just *****y ;) i did BC 5, leadership 5 and squadron command 4 in a month
Bazman Caldari The Establishment	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:35:00 - [706] Originally by: KilROCK Originally by: Bazman I can't be arsed training for an Astarte, battlecruiser 5 would make me quit the game (Just finished training 3 Rank 5 Skills to 5 :s) Wow a month of training from your normal skills? Your Perception and willpower are majorly crap or you're afraid Leadership5 + Squadron command might look horribly long with your crappy civire charisma? If you worry it won't be worth the time investment, think again.. 23 each for percep/will, only 12 Charisma though :P I also have leadership 5 already :P I just can't be bothered with Battlecruisers, sure they are nice and powerful, but yuk, battlecruisers! :P Thought to be honest, with the Tier 2 BC's around the corner, I might have a whack at them... just have loads of stuff I want to train first that i've been putting off for ages. ----- Sig removed, maximum allowed image dimensions are 400x120 and maximum allowed size is 24,000 bytes. Please contact [email protected] for more info (including a copy of your picture!) -wystler Hi TUXFORD! Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks. I am a
KilROCK Minmatar Angel Deep Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:38:00 - [707] Originally by: Bazman Originally by: KilROCK Originally by: Bazman I can't be arsed training for an Astarte, battlecruiser 5 would make me quit the game (Just finished training 3 Rank 5 Skills to 5 :s) Wow a month of training from your normal skills? Your Perception and willpower are majorly crap or you're afraid Leadership5 + Squadron command might look horribly long with your crappy civire charisma? If you worry it won't be worth the time investment, think again.. 23 each for percep/will, only 12 Charisma though :P I also have leadership 5 already :P I just can't be bothered with Battlecruisers, sure they are nice and powerful, but yuk, battlecruisers! :P Thought to be honest, with the Tier 2 BC's around the corner, I might have a whack at them... just have loads of stuff I want to train first that i've been putting off for ages. Hmm, yuk astarte? - Slow like a deimos - Can actually tank - 4 mids for all your pretty stuff + cap injector - Same bonuses - Agility wise, they're both bricks. - Cheaper - Looks sexy, a black whale of green fury. it's only a month, and it's good Problem with your corp that abuse cloaks on everything, is that you don't have a utility highslot.. SMACKING IN A TOPIC NEAR YOU / WTS PILGRIM + CURSE + T2 DRONES PACKS
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:47:00 - [708] Yuk Astarte indeed? It's got the deimos drawbacks... but plusses to make up for it. Command ships lvl 5 in 30 days ( yeah royal pain that one ) ftw. Beautiful boat. Although a general boast to BC agility/mass wouldn't be completely without merit since my megathron is faster.
Bazman Caldari The Establishment	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:54:00 - [709] I didn't say "YUK Astarte", I said "YUK BC's!" :p And I don't fit cloaks on all my ships ffs, it just gimps half of them, I generally know what I'm doing so I can avoid blobs and stuff even without a cloak :P sigh, I suppose I can train up Battlecruiser V and jump in an Astarte :P Damn you forum *****s, convincing me to change my skill training :P ----- Sig removed, maximum allowed image dimensions are 400x120 and maximum allowed size is 24,000 bytes. Please contact [email protected] for more info (including a copy of your picture!) -wystler Hi TUXFORD! Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks. I am a
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.03 11:56:00 - [710] You won't regret it, great toy for a blasterboat lover.

ThaMa Gebir Gallente Raddick Explorations Myriad Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.06 15:43:00 - [711] Still no replies yet?? Patiently waiting in hope...........
inSpirAcy Caldari The Solopwnmobiles	Posted - 2006.08.06 15:49:00 - [712] Originally by: ThaMa Gebir Still no replies yet?? You know that Tux has a rarely broken rule of not posting in any thread with his name in the title?
ThaMa Gebir Gallente Raddick Explorations Myriad Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.06 16:09:00 - [713] Yes I do but I fly the beauty now and am just as upset as the rest of the tired souls here. FIX THE BIRD, please?!!
Skrypt Gallente Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.08 14:23:00 - [714] Definitely, Tux! The Deimos was my favorite ship but since it's not been worth flying. It has just been a hole in my wallet. I've taken up the Ishtar and it's done some nice gankage thus far. ___________
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.08 22:49:00 - [715] TUX only acknowleged the PG issues actually, the lower than thorax speed is perfectly fine if you ask him... so bump'in till the sun goes down!!
Ichabod Crane Gallente LFC 3rd Front Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.08 23:01:00 - [716] Originally by: Deathbarrage Originally by: Ichabod Crane Originally by: Kai Lae I'll be happy if I can fit 5 electrons w/ cap booster, med nos, med rep, and MWD without a RCU..as this is now impossible. You dont need an RCU to fit that, I suggest you either retest your setup or look at your skills to see what you're missing. And tbh, as a specialised blaster/deimos pilot, I really have no complaints about being able to fit this ship. Its no more difficult to fit than any other ship of its class, you seriously think a vagabond can fit a full rack of 425mm Autocannon II's without having to make large concessions in its speed or defensive capabilities? And really, comparing grid/cpu on an astarte to that of a deimos is like comparing a frigate and a destroyer. Their roles are completely different and they're a different class of ships, saying the deimos should be easier to fit because there is a huge difference in powergrid/cpu is like advocating that cruisers should have comparable grid to a battleship Dont get me wrong, I'd be the last one to complain about the deimos being boosted. But it honestly isnt required IMO, its not like the ship is crippled as it is. fight a zealot/vaga/ishtar and say that again I have. And I stand by my comments. -
Luc Boye Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.09 00:51:00 - [717] Originally by: Ichabod Crane Originally by: Deathbarrage fight a zealot/vaga/ishtar and say that again I have. And I stand by my comments. You are speshul. -------------------------- MWD Cap Penalty?
twit brent Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.08.09 11:27:00 - [718] Deimos still needs fixing. Still not worth flying in PvP.
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.08.09 11:31:00 - [719] I wish the deimos was on par with other HAC's but the problem is that (imo) in a game there should be like maybe a ''rock paper scizor (or however you write it)'' idea with ''this can counter that, this can counter that'' but atm in eve it's more like ''everything can counter the deimos, the deimos can't counter anything'' pretty fun ship to fly but it has too much limitations to fulfil its role like speed, mass, agility, pg, cpu
Durethia RillaCorp	Posted - 2006.08.11 01:01:00 - [720] Edited by: Durethia on 11/08/2006 01:02:37 After they made Medium Neutron blaster IIs easier to fit... the Deimos still can't fit them respectably. I wonder, are there reasonable setups for other HACs which use the best T2 armaments for their class? The Deimos is stuck with Ion Blasters. Zealot full rack of Medium Pulse IIs... all cruiser modules and modules fitted compliment it's role. Sacrilege on par, with the Zealot. Cerberus Same here.... all Cruiser size modules, and the most powerful weaponry. Eagle I'd like to see someone fit a full rack of 250mm IIs on a Deimos... nah, those are harder to fit than Medium Neutron IIs... and this IS the complaint here! This is the problem fellas!! The Munin, and Vaga I'm sure continue on with this pattern, but I just can't recognize their weaponry to see if it's the best Cruiser class turrets/launchers common or able to be fit. The Deimos can NOT fit all cruiser class modules and either Medium Neutron IIs or 250mm IIs AND have enough to fit the rest of the ship. I saw a post the other day, making a joke about this, you can fit 5 Neutron IIs and one Medium rep.... 8 slots empty. For me, this isn't true, but five or so would be. I would like to fit a full rack of Medium Neutron IIs, Medium NOS, MWD, Medium Rep. You can't do that now, even with accepting empty slots. And have the ability to respectfully fit the rest of the slots, hardeners/energized plating, damage controls, webbers, ecm whatnot. All the other HACs can make due in regard to their roles and use powerful weaponry respective of their ship class. The Deimos can not. It's stuck with second best weaponry, and even then... frigate class modules will still be fit. In a couple of days, I'll have enough PG on my Deimos to fit a SMALL nosferatu. It's a cruiser!!! It should be a Medium NOS.... NO, It's a 180,000,000 isk Heavy Assault Cruiser!!!! A prince ought to have no other aim or thought, nor select anything else for his study, than war and its rules and discipline... --Nicolo Machiavelli (1505 AD)

Xoduse Beasts of Burden Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.11 08:35:00 - [721] Edited by: Xoduse on 11/08/2006 08:38:07 Fix the bird please. You cant even get a rack of Ion IIs, MWD, medium rep, and a medium nos in the extra high. What else is supposed to go there? A tractor beam? Fix the deimos PLEASE EDIT: I forgot to mention that almost every HAC is faster than it's t1 counterpart but when it comes to the Deimos, which is supposed to be the ultimate blasterboat and the one ship that really needs the extra speed, it goes slower and handles like a Freightliner. ---------------------
Durethia RillaCorp	Posted - 2006.08.11 10:56:00 - [722] Edited by: Durethia on 11/08/2006 11:04:44 Originally by: Xoduse EDIT: I forgot to mention that almost every HAC is faster than it's t1 counterpart but when it comes to the Deimos, which is supposed to be the ultimate blasterboat and the one ship that really needs the extra speed, it goes slower and handles like a Freightliner. In regard to it's speed.... it does get good falloff bonuses so you can start hitting your target from further away.... though I can agree the Deimos should be faster: I would settle and warm heartedly welcome nothing more, regarding navigation, than a significant boost in ship agility. Fit three or four nanofibers on a deimos, and the agility we get should be 'standard' ship stat, and keep the top speed where it is. Effectively allowing the ship to maneuver very well and take off like a bat out of h3ll... but, top speed will remain the same. A prince ought to have no other aim or thought, nor select anything else for his study, than war and its rules and discipline... --Nicolo Machiavelli (1505 AD)
Xoduse Beasts of Burden Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.11 17:55:00 - [723] Originally by: Durethia Edited by: Durethia on 11/08/2006 11:04:44 Originally by: Xoduse EDIT: I forgot to mention that almost every HAC is faster than it's t1 counterpart but when it comes to the Deimos, which is supposed to be the ultimate blasterboat and the one ship that really needs the extra speed, it goes slower and handles like a Freightliner. In regard to it's speed.... it does get good falloff bonuses so you can start hitting your target from further away.... though I can agree the Deimos should be faster: I would settle and warm heartedly welcome nothing more, regarding navigation, than a significant boost in ship agility. Fit three or four nanofibers on a deimos, and the agility we get should be 'standard' ship stat, and keep the top speed where it is. Effectively allowing the ship to maneuver very well and take off like a bat out of h3ll... but, top speed will remain the same. Now if the deimos did get that big a buff to agility speed would no longer be an issue for me since it could hold an orbit, and dictate range more effectively just because it can change it's flight path more quickly due to the added agility - which in my opinion is the same as speed because you are still getting from point a to point b faster unless you are just having a drag race in a straight line. Please tell me that makes sense? Hard to explain... ---------------------
Sochin Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.11 18:10:00 - [724] Originally by: Tuxford Wow long thread. If it makes you feel any better then I've noticed it and I'll look into it. Ah Christ, I just scanned 24 pages of this thread looking for the Dev reply because I foolishly thought Tux might have expressed some opinion on this matter. Nemo me impune lacessit
Bazman Caldari The Establishment	Posted - 2006.08.11 18:17:00 - [725] I got my deimos going 2.2km/s Low Grade Snakes, Dommie 10mn MWD, needed a Serpentis Med Rep to make it all fit though with Ion Blasters, and i still have nothing in my last high slot. My ishtar with the same modules does like 2.7 to 2.8km/s ----- Sig removed, maximum allowed image dimensions are 400x120 and maximum allowed size is 24,000 bytes. Please contact [email protected] for more info (including a copy of your picture!) -wystler Hi TUXFORD! Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks. I am a
Durethia RillaCorp	Posted - 2006.08.11 22:49:00 - [726] Originally by: Xoduse Now if the deimos did get that big a buff to agility speed would no longer be an issue for me since it could hold an orbit, and dictate range more effectively just because it can change it's flight path more quickly due to the added agility - which in my opinion is the same as speed because you are still getting from point a to point b faster unless you are just having a drag race in a straight line. Please tell me that makes sense? Hard to explain... Speed and Agility are very two different things. And, a drag race, top-end speed more often (if the track is long enough) is the most desired goal, not agility by any means. For instance. (sorry for the car cliche...) A Saleen Mustang in a straight line will stomp a Toyota MR2, off the line, and in top-end. But, just as much as the Saleen would stomp the MR2 in a drag-race scenerio. The MR2 would equally stomp the Saleen in a race requiring the use of the steering wheel. Or, perhaps, the train analogy. Some trains far exceed the speeds of even 200,000 dollar exotic cars. But, their agility is crap and can't take off very fast, or stop very fast. Speed vs. Velocity vs. Acceleration are often confused with one another. A prince ought to have no other aim or thought, nor select anything else for his study, than war and its rules and discipline... --Nicolo Machiavelli (1505 AD)
Motec The Clearwater Society	Posted - 2006.08.12 00:51:00 - [727] I thought the deimos was suppose to do its job better then the thorax. I fly them all and this is the most horrid hac to fit and hold your head up high.
Khadur Minmatar Spontaneous Defenestration Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2006.08.12 01:22:00 - [728] locktread.....
Good Sir	Posted - 2006.08.12 01:44:00 - [729] The deimos needs love, pure and simple. It just needs more grid and cpu. Cheifly grid. Also, the agility idea sounds really good as well, that would help the deimos greatly. Faster acceleration and turning velocity would greatly help, more so than a top speed increase.
Kai Jyokoroi 133rd Ghost Wing R i s e	Posted - 2006.08.12 02:50:00 - [730] /signed. Give it love. I just got HACs, and when playing on the test server I was shocked how at how bad the Deimos was compared to the Rax in terms of return on investment. _____________ The day I receive my first moderator forum-sig hijack is the day I realise I have won Eve.

Hydrian Alante The Loot Company	Posted - 2006.08.12 03:07:00 - [731] Who the **** wants more grid on teh Deimos and Muninn? Now we are getting Assault Missiles for more omfgwtfpwn Caldari goodness. So stfu you non-caldari lam0rz!
TuRtLe HeAd Apocalypse Enterprises	Posted - 2006.08.12 08:54:00 - [732] All I know is that, My Diemos is a helluva alot easier to fit than my Astarte. Diemos setups, I've never EVER had a problem fitting it out. Astarte, I've had nothing but problems from day one. Every thing is so tight to fit on the astarte. Or is it that now people can fit Neutrons to their megas Easily They want the same for the diemos. Its only an opinion, but I think its fine as it is.
St'oto Wings of Turul Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.12 09:46:00 - [733] The problem is that you cant even fit a full rack of ionIIs(the second best hibrid weapons) with a fair tank and a medium nos in the high... All hac can do that except the deimos.
TuRtLe HeAd Apocalypse Enterprises	Posted - 2006.08.12 10:06:00 - [734] Originally by: St'oto All hac can do that except the deimos. Thats not strictly true. The minmatar ones are VERY limited when it comes to fitting tanks. As they MUST fit expolisve and Kinetic to setup any decent resists. Its not just hte Power grid and CPU thats in question. The diemos has some pretty good natural resists on armour anyway. The Vagabond is usally forced to take advantage of sheild extenders or boosters just to be worthwhile. And then they become extremely weak to kinetic. The diemos also has STUPIDLY large amount of armour compared to some of the other hacs. And When fitted with a tank, its comparable to that of its bigger brothers. Its all Just my opinion on this matter, but I like the Diemos as it is, and to change it would warrant boosting the other hacs. Therefore Just leave it as it is. Why won't people just accept that you cant fit the best tank ,best guns to a ship at the same time. Its been fine since its release, Why is it any different now ? my Opinions only.
webkert Amarr Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.12 10:14:00 - [735] Originally by: Durethia Edited by: Durethia on 11/08/2006 01:02:37 After they made Medium Neutron blaster IIs easier to fit... the Deimos still can't fit them respectably. I wonder, are there reasonable setups for other HACs which use the best T2 armaments for their class? The Deimos is stuck with Ion Blasters. Zealot full rack of Medium Pulse IIs... all cruiser modules and modules fitted compliment it's role. Sacrilege on par, with the Zealot. Cerberus Same here.... all Cruiser size modules, and the most powerful weaponry. Eagle I'd like to see someone fit a full rack of 250mm IIs on a Deimos... nah, those are harder to fit than Medium Neutron IIs... and this IS the complaint here! This is the problem fellas!! The Munin, and Vaga I'm sure continue on with this pattern, but I just can't recognize their weaponry to see if it's the best Cruiser class turrets/launchers common or able to be fit. The Deimos can NOT fit all cruiser class modules and either Medium Neutron IIs or 250mm IIs AND have enough to fit the rest of the ship. I saw a post the other day, making a joke about this, you can fit 5 Neutron IIs and one Medium rep.... 8 slots empty. For me, this isn't true, but five or so would be. I would like to fit a full rack of Medium Neutron IIs, Medium NOS, MWD, Medium Rep. You can't do that now, even with accepting empty slots. And have the ability to respectfully fit the rest of the slots, hardeners/energized plating, damage controls, webbers, ecm whatnot. All the other HACs can make due in regard to their roles and use powerful weaponry respective of their ship class. The Deimos can not. It's stuck with second best weaponry, and even then... frigate class modules will still be fit. In a couple of days, I'll have enough PG on my Deimos to fit a SMALL nosferatu. It's a cruiser!!! It should be a Medium NOS.... NO, It's a 180,000,000 isk Heavy Assault Cruiser!!!! Sure, zealot can fit 4 heavy pulse, but then again, it has one less turret then deimos and no drones. And you might was to take a second look at that sac thread, most those sac fittings are either using small nos, RCU or 2 small reps. Btw I fly zealots alot and im having more problems against deimoses then I have against vagas or cerbs. Deimos needs abit more speed, other then that I dont see the problem with it.
Akiman	Posted - 2006.08.12 10:59:00 - [736] /SİGNED fix the grid issue!!!1111 fix the agility!
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.12 13:19:00 - [737] Originally by: webkert Originally by: Durethia Edited by: Durethia on 11/08/2006 01:02:37 After they made Medium Neutron blaster IIs easier to fit... the Deimos still can't fit them respectably. I wonder, are there reasonable setups for other HACs which use the best T2 armaments for their class? The Deimos is stuck with Ion Blasters. Zealot full rack of Medium Pulse IIs... all cruiser modules and modules fitted compliment it's role. Sacrilege on par, with the Zealot. Cerberus Same here.... all Cruiser size modules, and the most powerful weaponry. Eagle I'd like to see someone fit a full rack of 250mm IIs on a Deimos... nah, those are harder to fit than Medium Neutron IIs... and this IS the complaint here! This is the problem fellas!! The Munin, and Vaga I'm sure continue on with this pattern, but I just can't recognize their weaponry to see if it's the best Cruiser class turrets/launchers common or able to be fit. The Deimos can NOT fit all cruiser class modules and either Medium Neutron IIs or 250mm IIs AND have enough to fit the rest of the ship. I saw a post the other day, making a joke about this, you can fit 5 Neutron IIs and one Medium rep.... 8 slots empty. For me, this isn't true, but five or so would be. I would like to fit a full rack of Medium Neutron IIs, Medium NOS, MWD, Medium Rep. You can't do that now, even with accepting empty slots. And have the ability to respectfully fit the rest of the slots, hardeners/energized plating, damage controls, webbers, ecm whatnot. All the other HACs can make due in regard to their roles and use powerful weaponry respective of their ship class. The Deimos can not. It's stuck with second best weaponry, and even then... frigate class modules will still be fit. In a couple of days, I'll have enough PG on my Deimos to fit a SMALL nosferatu. It's a cruiser!!! It should be a Medium NOS.... NO, It's a 180,000,000 isk Heavy Assault Cruiser!!!! Sure, zealot can fit 4 heavy pulse, but then again, it has one less turret then deimos and no drones. And you might was to take a second look at that sac thread, most those sac fittings are either using small nos, RCU or 2 small reps. Btw I fly zealots alot and im having more problems against deimoses then I have against vagas or cerbs. Deimos needs abit more speed, other then that I dont see the problem with it. Its a matter of fitting my friend. Zealot with MWD will always out run deimos and stay out of blaster range, unless the deimos uses 2 webber drones, which can still be taken out in time by an experienced zealot pilot.
Dragy	Posted - 2006.08.13 20:04:00 - [738] so to sum up, what should be fixed ? 1) Agility 2) Velocity 3) Worthless bonus 4) Powergrid 5) CPU anything i missed ?
Xoduse Beasts of Burden Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.14 07:16:00 - [739] Originally by: TuRtLe HeAd Originally by: St'oto All hac can do that except the deimos. Thats not strictly true. The minmatar ones are VERY limited when it comes to fitting tanks. As they MUST fit expolisve and Kinetic to setup any decent resists. Its not just hte Power grid and CPU thats in question. The diemos has some pretty good natural resists on armour anyway. The Vagabond is usally forced to take advantage of sheild extenders or boosters just to be worthwhile. And then they become extremely weak to kinetic. The diemos also has STUPIDLY large amount of armour compared to some of the other hacs. And When fitted with a tank, its comparable to that of its bigger brothers. Its all Just my opinion on this matter, but I like the Diemos as it is, and to change it would warrant boosting the other hacs. Therefore Just leave it as it is. Why won't people just accept that you cant fit the best tank ,best guns to a ship at the same time. Its been fine since its release, Why is it any different now ? my Opinions only. Seriously, have you read ANY of the thread? First off, most vaga pilots slap on an Invul II, a shield booster, and they are good to go. Second, we are not asking to be able to fit Neutrons and a heavy tank. Just Ions, a med rep, mwd and the ability to fit something cruiser sized in that extra high slot. I think a big problem is the deimos is pretty much the only MWD mandatory HAC (cept the vaga) and this was not taken into account when the numbers where finalized for powergrid. It has a tiny increase over the thorax but an extra highslot to fill. Also, I think its pretty stupid that the Ishtar is faster than the deimos with and without an MWD and the ship uses drones which are range independent from 0->50km. ---------------------
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.14 07:51:00 - [740] Originally by: TuRtLe HeAd All I know is that, My Diemos is a helluva alot easier to fit than my Astarte. Diemos setups, I've never EVER had a problem fitting it out. Astarte, I've had nothing but problems from day one. Every thing is so tight to fit on the astarte. Or is it that now people can fit Neutrons to their megas Easily They want the same for the diemos. Its only an opinion, but I think its fine as it is. WTH, fitting trouble on AStarte? IT can run a full rack of neutrons, a med rep and mwd, without any problems.... Deimos can only use ions, and that's with a empty hislot, fill that and you need a RCU... so bull.

Dragy	Posted - 2006.08.14 09:24:00 - [741] Mass, Velocity, Agility Getting to your target ASAP is the top priority. Otherwise you cant do anything and die. It has worst mass (biggest) and look at velocity. It's one of 2 hacs that have reduced velocity compared to their hull version. And Deimos needs that velocity. It's warping also too slow. Powergrid: I dont want to fit tank & gank, but if you fit 5x heavy ions II (with AWU lvl4or5), med rep, mwd, you have about 20-30 powergrid left (dont remember the exact number). so what are you going to fit in the last 6th slot ? When you fit 5x neutrons you're going for pure gank, but as someone said ... the differense between dps is slight (30-40). All i'd like to ahve is to be able to fit 1 med nos without fitting a RCU. Why is that ? Because Deimos is too much cap dependable and can run out of it very fast. Bonus: Imo this bonus is useless, and would rather see 5% more velocity per lvl or if this cant go through 5% to tracking. I know that its so cap dependable, but a better option would be getting Deimos able to get close enough to its enemy so it won't need 2 mwd cycles, but 1, therefore it saves cap.
Soros 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.08.14 09:31:00 - [742] Why would you make a t2 version of a t1 ship SLOWER. than its t1 counterpart ... it makes no sense .. pls fix the deimos speed and fitting wise !!
Directive	Posted - 2006.08.14 09:31:00 - [743] Fuel to fire; Deimos and Ishtar have smallest powergrid upgrades compare to their T1 brethren. Double the MWD cap bonus; ie. change it to the one Vindicator and Vigilante have.
Breed Love Minmatar Stormriders	Posted - 2006.08.14 09:43:00 - [744] signed. ------ Originally by: Gazon In any case, the whole affair had one lasting effect: Awarding Stormriders the label of ridiculous drug addicts with a tendency towards utterly foolish actions.
Centurin Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2006.08.14 17:46:00 - [745] Vigilant ftw! ----------------------------------------------- "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" - Optimus Prime
Xoduse Beasts of Burden Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.14 21:57:00 - [746] Originally by: Dragy Mass, Velocity, Agility Getting to your target ASAP is the top priority. Otherwise you cant do anything and die. It has worst mass (biggest) and look at velocity. It's one of 2 hacs that have reduced velocity compared to their hull version. And Deimos needs that velocity. It's warping also too slow. Powergrid: I dont want to fit tank & gank, but if you fit 5x heavy ions II (with AWU lvl4or5), med rep, mwd, you have about 20-30 powergrid left (dont remember the exact number). so what are you going to fit in the last 6th slot ? When you fit 5x neutrons you're going for pure gank, but as someone said ... the differense between dps is slight (30-40). All i'd like to ahve is to be able to fit 1 med nos without fitting a RCU. Why is that ? Because Deimos is too much cap dependable and can run out of it very fast. Bonus: Imo this bonus is useless, and would rather see 5% more velocity per lvl or if this cant go through 5% to tracking. I know that its so cap dependable, but a better option would be getting Deimos able to get close enough to its enemy so it won't need 2 mwd cycles, but 1, therefore it saves cap. I agree with everything stated above except for the bit on the bonus. Like you said the deimos is very dependent upon it's cap and would rather have the bonus changed to 10% less max cap penalty per level. If this is too much then the 5% bonus to speed per level would be fine, but i dont think it needs a tracking bonus. ---------------------
Alex SOKOLOFF U.K.R.A.I.N.E	Posted - 2006.08.14 23:24:00 - [747] signed 1000 times speed grid agility
Altai Saker Omniscient Order Verisum Family	Posted - 2006.08.14 23:59:00 - [748] I just realized that every race has 1 good hac and 1 terrible hac... Perhaps they should balance the Deimos when they fix all the other lower class HAC's
Pepster Amarr 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.08.15 00:04:00 - [749] Originally by: Altai Saker I just realized that every race has 1 good hac and 1 terrible hac... Perhaps they should balance the Deimos when they fix all the other lower class HAC's Why would they do that before they fix the demios? Its obvious who the devs cater to.
GO MaZ No Quarter.	Posted - 2006.08.15 09:11:00 - [750] Dueled a corpies faction zealot last night in my t2 setup deimos, only reason I won was because I used 5 x Med ECM Drones. Proves how overpowered ECM is when I get utterly owned when using T2 damage drones (and also reminded me how nice it is to have 50m^3 drone bay). Sure, I'd like to see the deimos get a nice boost to PG so I can actually make a proper fitting, but its not such a bad ship as it is and as long as you fly with a little intelligence you have more chance against other HACS than it would seem (make sure you land inside 10k and dont have to get its fat ass into range ). The whole problem comes from running plates and the fact the deimos cant - what good is 800dps for when you have 2200 armor, against say, a cerb with 9700 shield with 75+% resists doing 400dps? PG Boost? yes Agility Boost? would be nice, but I'd much rather get a proper fit with a med rep / med nos rather than fitting frig modules Speed Boost? Nah, I recon agility boost would be much more useful considering most of the time you land between 15 and 30k away - if you're mwding from like 50k you'll probably take too much damage and have to warp anyway Member of the Ex-KSC retard-spellers club.

Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.15 09:25:00 - [751] deimos is an expensve mining ship atm High-Sec/Low-Sec Piracy Recruitment
Hellspawn01 Amarr	Posted - 2006.08.15 09:42:00 - [752] It is possible to fit a 800mm plate on the deimos, standard mid slot layout, 5x Ions II, med nos and med repper as I stated earlier in this thread. You just need advanced weapon upgrades lvl5 and some other lvl5 skills to squeeze it in. Ship lovers click here
Breed Love Minmatar Stormriders	Posted - 2006.08.15 09:46:00 - [753] Originally by: Hellspawn01 It is possible to fit a 800mm plate on the deimos, standard mid slot layout, 5x Ions II, med nos and med repper as I stated earlier in this thread. You just need advanced weapon upgrades lvl5 and some other lvl5 skills to squeeze it in. wtf? Please tell me what game you are playing, I want to play it too. ------ Originally by: Gazon In any case, the whole affair had one lasting effect: Awarding Stormriders the label of ridiculous drug addicts with a tendency towards utterly foolish actions.
GO MaZ No Quarter.	Posted - 2006.08.15 09:56:00 - [754] Originally by: Hellspawn01 It is possible to fit a 800mm plate on the deimos, standard mid slot layout, 5x Ions II, med nos and med repper as I stated earlier in this thread. You just need advanced weapon upgrades lvl5 and some other lvl5 skills to squeeze it in. Please show me where you get 364PG from with AWU 5? Member of the Ex-KSC retard-spellers club.
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.08.15 10:00:00 - [755] Originally by: Breed Love Originally by: Hellspawn01 It is possible to fit a 800mm plate on the deimos, standard mid slot layout, 5x Ions II, med nos and med repper as I stated earlier in this thread. You just need advanced weapon upgrades lvl5 and some other lvl5 skills to squeeze it in. wtf? Please tell me what game you are playing, I want to play it too. yeah standard med slot layout, you said nothing about lowslots ^^ RCU II is zeh key word
Breed Love Minmatar Stormriders	Posted - 2006.08.15 10:06:00 - [756] Originally by: Deathbarrage yeah standard med slot layout, you said nothing about lowslots ^^ RCU II is zeh key word You would need atleast 2 RCU II's to fit that, which obviously gives you a terrible setup that would die to a rifter. ------ Originally by: Gazon In any case, the whole affair had one lasting effect: Awarding Stormriders the label of ridiculous drug addicts with a tendency towards utterly foolish actions.
Gee'Kin Tha Specialz	Posted - 2006.08.15 10:31:00 - [757] Signed x day x months i own it. Deimos really needs more powergrid . and aility. Maybe remove the MWD bonus and add another good gallente bonus ? --------------------------------------------> Plz tickle my brain. I wanna have a Brainfart ! -------------------------------------------->
Hellspawn01 Amarr	Posted - 2006.08.15 10:39:00 - [758] Originally by: Breed Love wtf? Please tell me what game you are playing, I want to play it too. No need to flame. Originally by: Deathbarrage yeah standard med slot layout, you said nothing about lowslots ^^ RCU II is zeh key word Right. Originally by: Breed Love You would need atleast 2 RCU II's to fit that, which obviously gives you a terrible setup that would die to a rifter. Drones. Nuff said. Originally by: Gee'Kin Signed x day x months i own it. Deimos really needs more powergrid . and aility. Maybe remove the MWD bonus and add another good gallente bonus ? MWD bonus is fine. Without it, you would have barely enough cap for anything except the guns and EW. Med repper eats enough cap already. Ship lovers click here
GO MaZ No Quarter.	Posted - 2006.08.15 10:42:00 - [759] Originally by: Hellspawn01 Drones. Nuff said. This is a deimos thread, not an ishtar thread Member of the Ex-KSC retard-spellers club.
Durethia RillaCorp	Posted - 2006.08.15 11:59:00 - [760] Originally by: Xoduse I agree with everything stated above except for the bit on the bonus. Like you said the deimos is very dependent upon it's cap and would rather have the bonus changed to 10% less max cap penalty per level. If this is too much then the 5% bonus to speed per level would be fine, but i dont think it needs a tracking bonus. I disagree. I don't want the bonuses to change. The fall off bonus should take care of the decreased speed bonus. (The speed bonus would help a short range ship, becuase it can close in. If you increase it's range, then you can decrease it's speed.) If a bonus is to be changed, not just agility, but top end speed needs a boost (and not as a bonus) and an additional damage or tracking bonus be placed to counter how much time you have to tank while getting to your target. All in all, I very much enjoy the range of my Deimos, especially if you load Null M. A prince ought to have no other aim or thought, nor select anything else for his study, than war and its rules and discipline... --Nicolo Machiavelli (1505 AD)

Durethia RillaCorp	Posted - 2006.08.15 12:17:00 - [761] Originally by: GO MaZ Dueled a corpies faction zealot last night in my t2 setup deimos, only reason I won was because I used 5 x Med ECM Drones. Proves how overpowered ECM is when I get utterly owned when using T2 damage drones (and also reminded me how nice it is to have 50m^3 drone bay). Sure, I'd like to see the deimos get a nice boost to PG so I can actually make a proper fitting, but its not such a bad ship as it is and as long as you fly with a little intelligence you have more chance against other HACS than it would seem (make sure you land inside 10k and dont have to get its fat ass into range ). The whole problem comes from running plates and the fact the deimos cant - what good is 800dps for when you have 2200 armor, against say, a cerb with 9700 shield with 75+% resists doing 400dps? PG Boost? yes Agility Boost? would be nice, but I'd much rather get a proper fit with a med rep / med nos rather than fitting frig modules Speed Boost? Nah, I recon agility boost would be much more useful considering most of the time you land between 15 and 30k away - if you're mwding from like 50k you'll probably take too much damage and have to warp anyway As for the DPS bit... Some people think the Deimos is sufficient in its DPS. I do NOT think so. A T1 1600mm plate Maller can absorb a good deal of a decent skilled Deimos. Though, the Deimos will win, it can take a good while to pound that T1 cruiser down to the ground. All the while, his friends are on their way. The Deimos should be able to desintegrate any T1 setup fast. (Actually, not just the Deimos, but any reasonable HAC setup should abolish any T1 cruiser regardless of it's setup.) But, the Deimos should be able to throw Mike Tyson punches within range, it's supposed to be the ultimate close range Cruiser. Problem is, with it's crappy PG, you can only fit Ion Blasters and even then, you lose a high-slot (yes, I'd be happy just being able to fit a Medium NOS with Ions... but ultimately, the Deimos won't be fixed until it can deploy a full rack of Neutron IIs). The Ishtar, the Vagabond, Sacrilege, Zealot and the Cerberus can and often do own the Deimos in close range sets. I only need to point to the killboards. This is NOT the affect and intention of the Deimos. The Deimos should be feared in close range, and currently, it's not feared at any range to other HAC pilots. The damage, relative to HACs, is not high enough. For example. In the T1 world, my thorax traditionally fitted with 5 T2 Heavy Ions, will destroy any Vexor setup, long before the Vexors typical three Medium NOS can really do much to my cap. 1v1, mono e mono. In HAC land, the Ishtar.... most battles with an Ishtar and Deimos isn't even a "gf", it's a "was there a fight?". This isn't to say that the Ishtar is overpowered, it's to show that the Deimos is UNDERPOWERED, in many aspects. Agility, versatility, and damage output. Then, if we compare other HACs, a Cerberus will roll right ontop of a Deimos, and likely win. The Cerberus should only feel comfortable with winning if from out of range. All these statements aren't meant to be 100%. The point I'm trying to put here, is that while even in a balanced scenerio, a Cerberus, Ishtar (whatever) could win, or feel the pain of the battle... but as it stands... the Deimos often gets slaughtered in 1v1 against other HACs. Slaughtered. I'm not asking for a iWin button if the target is 4K away. But, what I demand is if the target is 4K away, and happens to win, that pilot had to have been sweating bullets. The last Deimos I lost was to an Ishtar.... not more that 15% into the Ishtars armor and I popped. I feel that, maintaining that I lost, that that Ishtar should have atleast been 70% into armor; give or take. A prince ought to have no other aim or thought, nor select anything else for his study, than war and its rules and discipline... --Nicolo Machiavelli (1505 AD)
Xoduse Beasts of Burden Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.16 01:00:00 - [762] Originally by: Durethia As for the DPS bit... Some people think the Deimos is sufficient in its DPS. I do NOT think so. A T1 1600mm plate Maller can absorb a good deal of a decent skilled Deimos. Though, the Deimos will win, it can take a good while to pound that T1 cruiser down to the ground. All the while, his friends are on their way. The Deimos should be able to desintegrate any T1 setup fast. (Actually, not just the Deimos, but any reasonable HAC setup should abolish any T1 cruiser regardless of it's setup.) But, the Deimos should be able to throw Mike Tyson punches within range, it's supposed to be the ultimate close range Cruiser. Problem is, with it's crappy PG, you can only fit Ion Blasters and even then, you lose a high-slot (yes, I'd be happy just being able to fit a Medium NOS with Ions... but ultimately, the Deimos won't be fixed until it can deploy a full rack of Neutron IIs). The Ishtar, the Vagabond, Sacrilege, Zealot and the Cerberus can and often do own the Deimos in close range sets. I only need to point to the killboards. This is NOT the affect and intention of the Deimos. The Deimos should be feared in close range, and currently, it's not feared at any range to other HAC pilots. The damage, relative to HACs, is not high enough. For example. In the T1 world, my thorax traditionally fitted with 5 T2 Heavy Ions, will destroy any Vexor setup, long before the Vexors typical three Medium NOS can really do much to my cap. 1v1, mono e mono. In HAC land, the Ishtar.... most battles with an Ishtar and Deimos isn't even a "gf", it's a "was there a fight?". This isn't to say that the Ishtar is overpowered, it's to show that the Deimos is UNDERPOWERED, in many aspects. Agility, versatility, and damage output. Then, if we compare other HACs, a Cerberus will roll right ontop of a Deimos, and likely win. The Cerberus should only feel comfortable with winning if from out of range. All these statements aren't meant to be 100%. The point I'm trying to put here, is that while even in a balanced scenerio, a Cerberus, Ishtar (whatever) could win, or feel the pain of the battle... but as it stands... the Deimos often gets slaughtered in 1v1 against other HACs. Slaughtered. I'm not asking for a iWin button if the target is 4K away. But, what I demand is if the target is 4K away, and happens to win, that pilot had to have been sweating bullets. The last Deimos I lost was to an Ishtar.... not more that 15% into the Ishtars armor and I popped. I feel that, maintaining that I lost, that that Ishtar should have atleast been 70% into armor; give or take. Great Post. And I agree with everything you said and just want to support your post with some numbers to open the eyes of the non-believers. So here goes. Its quite pathetic that the only difference really between a thorax setup and a deimos setup is maybe the type of hardeners you use, and what you put in the extra low slot. It shouldnt be like this. Other HACs get a considerable boost to powergrid so they can fit bigger and badder guns, the deimos got screwed in the fitting dept. Just a few examples of why its so gimped: Omen -> Zealot 360 Power Grid Increase Stabber -> Vagabond 155 Increase Caracal -> Cerberus 105 Increase Thorax -> Deimos 40 Power Grid Increase Keep in mind the Deimos is forced to fit the same size guns most commonly seen on a thorax, and cannot even utilize it's extra highslot effectively. ---------------------
ThunderGodThor KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.08.16 01:18:00 - [763] I think its about time for this. These are the current stats in game. Thorax Radius 167.24 m Mass 12,000,000 kg Volume 112,000 m3 Cargo Capacity 265 m3 Base Price 7,400,000 isk damage 0 hp 1,500 powergrid Output 820 MW lowSlots 5 slots medSlots 3 slots hiSlots 5 slots powerLoad 0 powerToSpeed 1 warpFactor 0 Max Velocity 180 m/sec cpuOutput 300 tf cpuLoad 0 Recharge time 393,000 ms agility 0.55 x Maximum Targeting Range 55,000 m Targeting Speed 5,500 ms Launcher hardpoints 0 Turret hardpoints 5 Kinetic dmg resistance 0 % Thermal dmg resistance 0 % Explosive dmg resistance 0 % EM dmg resistance 0 % mainColor 16,777,215 maxPassengers 760 uniformity 1 warpCapacitorNeed 0.000000813 Primary Skill required Gallente Cruiser Max Locked Targets 6 RADAR Sensor Strength 0 points LADAR Sensor Strength 0 points Magnetometric Sensor Strength 15 points Gravimetric Sensor Strength 0 points propulsionGraphicID 394 gfxBoosterID 394 shieldCapacity 1,219 armorHP 1,313 Armor Em Damage Resistance 60 % Armor Explosive Damage Resistance 10 % Armor Kinetic Damage Resistance 35 % Armor Thermal Damage Resistance 35 % Shield Em Damage Resistance 0 % Shield Explosive Damage Resistance 60 % Shield Kinetic Damage Resistance 40 % Shield Thermal Damage Resistance 20 % requiredSkill1Level 3 Drone Capacity 50 m3Tech Level 1 Shield recharge time 1,000,000 ms Capacitor Capacity 1,100 EnergyShield Uniformity 0.75 shipBonusGC 5 armorUniformity 0.75 structureUniformity 0.75 Signature Radius 140 m Scan Resolution 225 mm shipBonusGC2 5max DirectionalVelocity 2,000 minTargetVelDmgMultiplier 0.25 Fusion Propulsion Strength 0 points Ion Propulsion Strength 7 points Magpulse Propulsion Strength 0 points Plasma Propulsion Strength 0 points Build Number 2.09.3805
ThunderGodThor KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.08.16 01:24:00 - [764] Deimos Radius 167.24 m Mass 12,000,000 kg Volume 85,000 m3 Cargo Capacity 315 m3 Base Price 17,062,588 isk damage 0 hp 2,250 powergrid Output 860 MW lowSlots 6 slots medSlots 3 slot shiSlots 6 slots powerLoad 0 powerToSpeed 1 warpFactor 0 Max Velocity 170 m/sec cpuOutput 330 tf cpuLoad 0 Recharge time 268,000 ms agility 0.65 x Maximum Targeting Range 65,000 m Targeting Speed 4,500 ms Launcher hardpoints 0 Turret hardpoints 5 Kinetic dmg resistance 0 % Thermal dmg resistance 0 % Explosive dmg resistance 0 % EM dmg resistance 0 % mainColor 16,777,215 maxPassengers 580 uniformity 1 warpCapacitorNeed 0.000000813 Primary Skill required Gallente Cruiser Secondary Skill required Heavy Assault Ships Max Locked Targets 6 RADAR Sensor Strength 0 points LADAR Sensor Strength 0 points Magnetometric Sensor Strength 15 points Gravimetric Sensor Strength 0 pointspropulsionGraphicID 396 gfxBoosterID 396 shieldCapacity 1,031 armorHP 1,813 Armor Em Damage Resistance 60 % Armor Explosive Damage Resistance 10 % Armor Kinetic Damage Resistance 83.75 % Armor Thermal Damage Resistance 67.5 % Shield Em Damage Resistance 0 % Shield Explosive Damage Resistance 60 % Shield Kinetic Damage Resistance 85 % Shield Thermal Damage Resistance 60 % requiredSkill1Level 5 requiredSkill2Level 1 Drone Capacity 50 m3 Tech Level 2 Shield recharge time 1,000,000 ms Capacitor Capacity 1,100 EnergyShield Uniformity 0.75 shipBonusGC 5 armorUniformity 0.75 structureUniformity 0.75 Signature Radius 160 m Scan Resolution 225 mm WarpSpeedMultiplyer 1.25 shipBonusGC2 5 eliteBonusHeavyGunship1 10 eliteBonusHeavyGunship2 5 Fusion Propulsion Strength 0 pointsIon Propulsion Strength 8 pointsMagpulse Propulsion Strength 0 pointsPlasma Propulsion Strength 0 points Build Number 2.09.3805
ThunderGodThor KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.08.16 01:34:00 - [765] Now if any one would be so kind to help figure out how to figure the agility that would be great cause from the way it looks the diemos has a .65 mod while the rax has a .55. making the rax faster and more aglie then the diemos but then again we all knew that ( any one that has used the ship in pvp that is).
Hellspawn01 Amarr	Posted - 2006.08.16 01:36:00 - [766] Give the Deimos/thorax the 5x heavy drones back. Ship lovers click here
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.16 10:31:00 - [767] Originally by: Hellspawn01 Give the Deimos/thorax the 5x heavy drones back. No that would make the deimos overpowered and the ishtar obsolete. Deimos is a blasterboat not a droneboat, so it needs improvments in the "blaster" department not the drones... Fitting wise its too limited to fit its heaviest arsenal so it needs more PG. Bonus wise, it gets -6.25% to cap, uhmm not a bonus really, hope CCP fixes this SOON!, another dmg/RoF bonus, agility/mass bonus (like the planed hyperion bonus), etc. The ship needs more dmg since DMG is its primary role, that can either be achieved with PG increase so it can fit neutrons easily, or another dmg bonus instead of the reduced MWD cap penalty. Also make it just as fast or even faster than the thorax, atm its SLOWER!! These issues need to be addressed first before any changes are made to agility or drone bay, etc..
Lucus Ranger Gallente The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.08.16 10:38:00 - [768] hmm giving the Thorax it's heavy drones back is not a good idea, but I wouldn't mind ... Although the Deimos could benefit from it quite nicely... What about increasing grid/base speed/agility and slightly less mass... and perhaps switching one hi slot for a med slot? So slot layout would be 5/4/6.. Idea being for it to be able to use an Injector.. Just an idea, probably a stupid one though
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.16 10:43:00 - [769] Rather use a nos then a injector to be honest.
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.16 10:46:00 - [770] Originally by: Lucus Ranger hmm giving the Thorax it's heavy drones back is not a good idea, but I wouldn't mind ... Although the Deimos could benefit from it quite nicely... What about increasing grid/base speed/agility and slightly less mass... and perhaps switching one hi slot for a med slot? So slot layout would be 5/4/6.. Idea being for it to be able to use an Injector.. Just an idea, probably a stupid one though Without a significant PG increase the injector wont fit, there are also slight CPU problems which force you to use expensive faction mods for a pretty standard setup. But yes, if deimos gets its much needed PG, a 5/4/6 slot layout would be much more appropiate for this blasterboat.

Durethia RillaCorp	Posted - 2006.08.16 22:58:00 - [771] Edited by: Durethia on 16/08/2006 22:58:41 Could CCP please give a response? This thread is 26 pages long. It's clear the Deimos needs a boost. Everyone that actually plays the game agrees, those who can fly them, those who do fly them... even people who can't fly them agree. It needs a MASSIVE PG increase. This has to be enourmous becuase it's bonus is so small. It needs a marked improvement in agility. These two things I strongly insist be fixed. While the other issues raised are reasonable, addressing and fixing these two, PG and agility, will silent the majority of those screaming. A prince ought to have no other aim or thought, nor select anything else for his study, than war and its rules and discipline... --Nicolo Machiavelli (1505 AD)
Leam Gallente Celtic industries Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.08.16 23:41:00 - [772] Didnt some dev reply just a few pages ago saying they'll look into it?
GO MaZ No Quarter.	Posted - 2006.08.16 23:52:00 - [773] Originally by: Leam Didnt some dev reply just a few pages ago saying they'll look into it? It might only be a couple of pages ago but iirc that 1 line response from tux was posted on 2006.05.31 - 3 months and no further response. How about fixing the ships already in the game rather than working on ones for a new patch? Member of the Ex-KSC retard-spellers club.
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.17 12:00:00 - [774] Originally by: GO MaZ Originally by: Leam Didnt some dev reply just a few pages ago saying they'll look into it? It might only be a couple of pages ago but iirc that 1 line response from tux was posted on 2006.05.31 - 3 months and no further response. How about fixing the ships already in the game rather than working on ones for a new patch? WorD!
Alex SOKOLOFF U.K.R.A.I.N.E	Posted - 2006.08.17 21:04:00 - [775] bump
Xoduse Beasts of Burden Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.17 21:49:00 - [776] Originally by: Durethia Edited by: Durethia on 16/08/2006 22:58:41 Could CCP please give a response? This thread is 26 pages long. It's clear the Deimos needs a boost. Everyone that actually plays the game agrees, those who can fly them, those who do fly them... even people who can't fly them agree. It needs a MASSIVE PG increase. This has to be enourmous becuase it's bonus is so small. It needs a marked improvement in agility. These two things I strongly insist be fixed. While the other issues raised are reasonable, addressing and fixing these two, PG and agility, will silent the majority of those screaming. Agreed, can't think of a better way to say it. We've made our points and I'd like to see what the Devs have to say about our ideas.... ---------------------
ping foetsie	Posted - 2006.08.17 22:32:00 - [777] Hehe like to see some changes to the deimos to. It's so slow and you often have to fit a cap injector instead of a scrambler to keep it alive in pvp. Before you are in range your shield is stripped away and you have to run your rep already before you even dished out some decent dmg. Just to get that med nos in place would be a blessing. And more speed would mean more transversal velocity wich would automatically increase the survivability of a the ship.
Hellspawn01 Amarr	Posted - 2006.08.18 00:51:00 - [778] I like to see a setup made by Tuxford for this ship. Ship lovers click here
Durethia RillaCorp	Posted - 2006.08.18 01:20:00 - [779] Edited by: Durethia on 18/08/2006 01:23:12 Originally by: Hellspawn01 I like to see a setup made by Tuxford for this ship. I wish Tuxford would respond to this growing thread. This ship is in dire need of attention. His only post and a very old post, seemed too impartial as if to serve the public with a modicum of thought. Tuxford, please respond with your views. Atleast give us a counter arguement... maybe a reason why it seems this ship is destined to be ignored. This ship needs Agility and Power Grid... and LOTS of it. Everybody seems to agree on these two things. It's time for an official response. As for Tuxfords prospective setup, I can't imagine it being any different than what is typical or common already. A prince ought to have no other aim or thought, nor select anything else for his study, than war and its rules and discipline... --Nicolo Machiavelli (1505 AD)
supreme gunna	Posted - 2006.08.18 03:59:00 - [780] man you gallante sure are whinners! Ok so you dont have the best hac in the game, BOO HOOOO get over it. you guys have ace ships in other ship categories, and other races have crap ships in other categories. the ishtar is a fine hac, and the diemos is OK, its not awesome, its good. like the zealot is good too, and other races have crap hacs too, have you seen the sacrilage?? have you seen the muninn??. So please stop your whining.

Xoduse Beasts of Burden Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.18 05:25:00 - [781] Edited by: Xoduse on 18/08/2006 05:25:35 Originally by: supreme gunna man you gallante sure are whinners! Ok so you dont have the best hac in the game, BOO HOOOO get over it. you guys have ace ships in other ship categories, and other races have crap ships in other categories. the ishtar is a fine hac, and the diemos is OK, its not awesome, its good. like the zealot is good too, and other races have crap hacs too, have you seen the sacrilage?? have you seen the muninn??. So please stop your whining. I've seen many people cry out to the Devs asking particular ships to be looked at. The instance that stands out in my mind the most is the Sacrilage. You say it is crap but if i remember correctly it used to be alot worse, with no damage bonus at all. But players presented their argument, and Tux fixed the Sac for them. This thread represents our argument for the Deimos. As for the gallente whining bit - as far as I've seen characters of all races have attested here that the Deimos needs some help. If all you can post is ignorance, do not post at all. Or since you worded you post as a 10 year old might "If you cannot say anything nice, don't say anything at all" ---------------------
supreme gunna	Posted - 2006.08.18 06:50:00 - [782] Originally by: Xoduse Edited by: Xoduse on 18/08/2006 05:25:35 Originally by: supreme gunna man you gallante sure are whinners! Ok so you dont have the best hac in the game, BOO HOOOO get over it. you guys have ace ships in other ship categories, and other races have crap ships in other categories. the ishtar is a fine hac, and the diemos is OK, its not awesome, its good. like the zealot is good too, and other races have crap hacs too, have you seen the sacrilage?? have you seen the muninn??. So please stop your whining. I've seen many people cry out to the Devs asking particular ships to be looked at. The instance that stands out in my mind the most is the Sacrilage. You say it is crap but if i remember correctly it used to be alot worse, with no damage bonus at all. But players presented their argument, and Tux fixed the Sac for them. This thread represents our argument for the Deimos. As for the gallente whining bit - as far as I've seen characters of all races have attested here that the Deimos needs some help. If all you can post is ignorance, do not post at all. Or since you worded you post as a 10 year old might "If you cannot say anything nice, don't say anything at all" First, they changed up the sacrilage, but they didnt 'fix' it, its still a sorry excuse for a hac. go ahead and say what YOU WANT ABOUT HOW I WORD THINGS, IT REALLLY DOESNT MATTER TO MEH YO. the truth remains, your whining. Try to grasp this. Yes, the diemos needs help. GASP. but guess what, DO DO OTHER HACS, but the rest arent whining as much as you lot are. Thats what im getting at. Ever flown a muninn? they have to fit 2x RCU II's JUST to fit guns and a mwd. and you want to be able to fit every PG costly mod on your ship to make it uber. Nope not gonna happen. be happy your diemos does 800 DPS, you shouldnt be able to be FAST, have a uber tank, and do 800 dps. nope no way, eve would be broken.
Deviana Sevidon Gallente easyCredits	Posted - 2006.08.18 07:10:00 - [783] Originally by: supreme gunna Whining about supposed whining I seems every now and then an alt-troll walks in and starts to flame.
GO MaZ No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.08.18 11:13:00 - [784] Originally by: supreme gunna be happy your diemos does 800 DPS, you shouldnt be able to be FAST, have a uber tank, and do 800 dps. nope no way, eve would be broken. Ahahahaa right Deimos does 800dps when you get inside like, 2km. How exactly is it going to do ANYTHING if its so damn slow it cant get into range? If you want the muninn boosted, make a thread about it and stop whining yourself. The deimos, is supposed to be THE BE ALL AND END ALL OF UP CLOSE HACS - i.e. if i get into 5k of my target, i want them to goddamn melt before they can touch me; not my fault my target let me get in range Honestly, its not like we're being unreasonable or anything - I personally just want to see the ship actually FULFIL the role its sposed to, which is up close and personal uber gankage - hey, at least the sacrilege can perform its (tank) role Member of the Ex-KSC retard-spellers club.
Benglada Central Defiance	Posted - 2006.08.18 11:20:00 - [785] needs a 20% pg boost, then id buy one --------------------------- Originally by: Wrangler Unfrtinately you dnot get to vote..
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.18 13:01:00 - [786] WTB deimos with 800 DPS!! even megathron with neutrons and 2 dmg mods cant get 800 DPS. Stop spreading around bull****. Deimos (with full ions and 2 dmg mods) has same DPS (around 450) as Ishtar (with ogre IIs, no turrets), only difference is that deimos needs to be within 3km for its DPS to be effective. Now give deimos enough PG to fit a full rack of neutrons, it still does only around 480 DPS (with the 2 dmg mods still fitted). Med blasters suck ass when it comes to dmg and deimos is still not viable over an ishtar. Its simply not worth getting your self so close to the target to gain 10% more DPS, thats diminished by the travel time anyways. Deimos needs to be utterly devastating within 3km atm its rather a joke or pride thing to fly this ship.
Xoduse Beasts of Burden Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.18 13:27:00 - [787] Edited by: Xoduse on 18/08/2006 13:28:17 Originally by: supreme gunna Edited by: supreme gunna on 18/08/2006 07:05:39 Originally by: Xoduse Edited by: Xoduse on 18/08/2006 05:25:35 Originally by: supreme gunna man you gallante sure are whinners! Ok so you dont have the best hac in the game, BOO HOOOO get over it. you guys have ace ships in other ship categories, and other races have crap ships in other categories. the ishtar is a fine hac, and the diemos is OK, its not awesome, its good. like the zealot is good too, and other races have crap hacs too, have you seen the sacrilage?? have you seen the muninn??. So please stop your whining. I've seen many people cry out to the Devs asking particular ships to be looked at. The instance that stands out in my mind the most is the Sacrilage. You say it is crap but if i remember correctly it used to be alot worse, with no damage bonus at all. But players presented their argument, and Tux fixed the Sac for them. This thread represents our argument for the Deimos. As for the gallente whining bit - as far as I've seen characters of all races have attested here that the Deimos needs some help. If all you can post is ignorance, do not post at all. Or since you worded you post as a 10 year old might "If you cannot say anything nice, don't say anything at all" First, they changed up the sacrilage, but they didnt 'fix' it, its still a sorry excuse for a hac unfortunately. Yes, the diemos needs help. GASP. but guess what, so do other hacs, but the rest arent whining as much as you lot are. Thats what im getting at. Ever flown a muninn? they have to fit two RCU II's JUST to fit guns and a mwd and you want to be able to fit every PG costly mod on your ship to make it uber. Nope not gonna happen sorry. be happy your diemos does 800 DPS, you shouldnt be able to be FAST, have a uber tank, and do 800 dps. nope no way, eve would be broken. Since you have no clue what you are talking about, please just stop posting. I managed to squeeze this setup on a Muninn with .5 PG left at Adv Weap Ups 4: 5x 220 vulcan IIs 2x Medium Diminishing Nos 1x Y-t8 mwd 1x fleeting web 1x fleeting scram 1x med rep II 2x Passive Hards 1x DCU 1x Gyro II Looks like a solid setup to me. Full rack of the second best guns with TWO nos. The deimos cannot even fit a full rack of it's second best guns and ONE nos. Muninn can fit two without any fitting mods whatsoever and you are trying to compare the two. The real kicker is the RUPTURE has the same base powergrid as the frickin Deimos. ---------------------
GO MaZ No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.08.18 13:31:00 - [788] Edited by: GO MaZ on 18/08/2006 13:31:48 Originally by: Kunming WTB deimos with 800 DPS!! even megathron with neutrons and 2 dmg mods cant get 800 DPS. A deimos with max ship, gunnery and drone skills can break 800dps with Ion II's, Void, 3 MFS II and 5 x Hammerhead II's - a Megathron with neutron II's, Void and good skills can break 1300dps with T2 drones (talking dps on structure here btw, 0% resists) It might be able to do 800dps, but thats not the point, its the fact that 800dps with no tank is useless when other HACS are doing 500+ with 7 or 8k shield. Ubergank setups work on the megathron because it has enough power grid to be plated and can therefore be passive tanked. This just doesnt work on the deimos which is limited by pg AND lowslots (half the time I end up fitting 3 x MFS II just to get the damage I want, leaving 2 slots for tank choice (assuming a rep)). Vagabond, Max Skills, 220mm Vulcan II's, hail, no dmg mods + 5 x Hob II = 420dps Deimos, Max Skills, Heavy Ion II's, void, no dmg mods + 5 Hammerhead II = 545dps An extra 125dps, but deimos can maybe top 1400m/s with a plate and DECENT skills whereas a vaga will break 2.5k/s half the time, turns faster, aligns faster, has more range, AND can pull off a helluva passive tank with large extender II's. I dont want a vaga killer though, I want a ship where if that vaga gets within 5k by being stupid, I'll blow his goddamn socks off. An extra 125dps is really useful when the vaga has what, 7k+ shields and im stuck with 4200 odd armor with ions Member of the Ex-KSC retard-spellers club.
Hellspawn01 Amarr	Posted - 2006.08.18 14:18:00 - [789] Here is my deimos setup. Plz keep in mind that I¦m a tank and no gank pilot. Damage comes only from skills. 5x Heavy Ion Blaster II 1x Medium Diminishing Nos 1x Y-T8 MWD 1x Fleeting webber 1x Cap Recharger II 1x Medium Armor Repairer II 2x RCU II 1x 800mm Crystalline Plate 1x Energized Adaptive Nano II 1x Armor Explosive Hardener II That leaves 6.669 grid and 49.15 CPU with adv. weapon upgrade 5 and weapon upgrades 5.Quickfit says 400 DPS on hull and about 160 on shields on a hardened raven. Flaming my setup is useless cuz it served me well in the past. Btw, sacrilege and zealot have also trouble fitting the strongest gun in their class with a decent tank. That only leaves the cerberus and eagle with the strongest guns. Dunno about minmatar HACs cuz I¦m still training for them. Ship lovers click here
SmokeMeAKipper System-Lords E N I G M A	Posted - 2006.08.18 14:32:00 - [790] Edited by: SmokeMeAKipper on 18/08/2006 14:35:46 Originally by: GO MaZ Vagabond, Max Skills, 220mm Vulcan II's, hail, no dmg mods + 5 x Hob II = 420dps .... a vaga will break 2.5k/s half the time best not to use hail in a vaga's damage calc as it would reduce the speed of a vaga to <200m/s (<1000m/s with mwd) - it is unusable on a vaga, barrage is what is used edit: oh yeah -> * i hereby add my support your help the deimos plees - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast - - - - - - - - - - - -

spiritfa11 Phantom Squad	Posted - 2006.08.18 14:49:00 - [791] I endorse this post, the poor deimos needs help, at least more agility and powergrid. I remember training for so long and being so excited, then getting it and selling for an ishtar. I might actually fly one again if it gets the lovin it needs. It just doesnt have the stats to do what it needs to do. --------------------- I make sigs, plz evemail me ingame \| Gallery
Xathax Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.08.18 15:16:00 - [792] Edited by: Xathax on 18/08/2006 15:17:31 Originally by: Hellspawn01 Edited by: Hellspawn01 on 18/08/2006 14:33:32 Here is my deimos setup. Plz keep in mind that I¦m a tank and no gank pilot. Damage comes only from skills. 5x Heavy Ion Blaster II ... ... Btw, sacrilege and zealot have also trouble fitting the strongest gun in their class with a decent tank. That only leaves the cerberus and eagle with the strongest guns. Dunno about minmatar HACs cuz I¦m still training for them. Since when are Ions the strongest blaster?
Angus Torg	Posted - 2006.08.18 15:26:00 - [793] Can we get a powergrid upgrade to 930 at least? sigh
GO MaZ No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.08.18 15:45:00 - [794] Edited by: GO MaZ on 18/08/2006 15:46:39 Originally by: SmokeMeAKipper best not to use hail in a vaga's damage calc as it would reduce the speed of a vaga to <200m/s (<1000m/s with mwd) - it is unusable on a vaga, barrage is what is used I know this, simply comparing the two highest damage ammos - wouldnt do any good comparing void and barrage cos barrage isnt the short range ammo Just for you: Vagabond, 220mm Vulcan II (no dmg mods), 5 x Hobgob II, Barrage: 335dps Deimos, Heavy Ion II (no dmg mods), 5 x Hammerhead II, Null: 441dps So still, a 100dps difference, but it doesnt change much; the vaga can still fit an obscene tank compared to the deimos while still putting out respectable damage. Now a heavy pulse II zealot with scorch does 220dps with an optimal of 33k, over double the effective range of the deimos and about half the damage, but it doesnt have to fit a MWD and can easily fit a medium nos therefore having a boatload more cap to tank with Member of the Ex-KSC retard-spellers club.
supreme gunna	Posted - 2006.08.18 16:36:00 - [795] Originally by: Kunming WTB deimos with 800 DPS!! even megathron with neutrons and 2 dmg mods cant get 800 DPS. Stop spreading around bull****. Deimos (with full ions and 2 dmg mods) has same DPS (around 450) as Ishtar (with ogre IIs, no turrets), only difference is that deimos needs to be within 3km for its DPS to be effective. Now give deimos enough PG to fit a full rack of neutrons, it still does only around 480 DPS (with the 2 dmg mods still fitted). Med blasters suck ass when it comes to dmg and deimos is still not viable over an ishtar. Its simply not worth getting your self so close to the target to gain 10% more DPS, thats diminished by the travel time anyways. Deimos needs to be utterly devastating within 3km atm its rather a joke or pride thing to fly this ship. Its ben proven that a diemos can do betwen 700 to 800 dps, read again. So think before you call other noobs, you noob. Ok for the silly guy that posted a setup of a muninn with autocannons, I gotta say ROFL, in case you didnt know the muninn is a artillery boat not a AC boat, so pls stay back in your corner and be quiet. Now Ill stop being so smacky. 1600 ms is good speed for a hac that can dish out a godly 800 dps at his optimal. capish.
supreme gunna	Posted - 2006.08.18 16:38:00 - [796] oh yeah and the sacrilage still suxors more than the diemos.
Pesadel0	Posted - 2006.08.18 16:46:00 - [797] Originally by: Xoduse Edited by: Xoduse on 18/08/2006 13:28:17 Originally by: supreme gunna Edited by: supreme gunna on 18/08/2006 07:05:39 Originally by: Xoduse Edited by: Xoduse on 18/08/2006 05:25:35 Originally by: supreme gunna man you gallante sure are whinners! Ok so you dont have the best hac in the game, BOO HOOOO get over it. you guys have ace ships in other ship categories, and other races have crap ships in other categories. the ishtar is a fine hac, and the diemos is OK, its not awesome, its good. like the zealot is good too, and other races have crap hacs too, have you seen the sacrilage?? have you seen the muninn??. So please stop your whining. I've seen many people cry out to the Devs asking particular ships to be looked at. The instance that stands out in my mind the most is the Sacrilage. You say it is crap but if i remember correctly it used to be alot worse, with no damage bonus at all. But players presented their argument, and Tux fixed the Sac for them. This thread represents our argument for the Deimos. As for the gallente whining bit - as far as I've seen characters of all races have attested here that the Deimos needs some help. If all you can post is ignorance, do not post at all. Or since you worded you post as a 10 year old might "If you cannot say anything nice, don't say anything at all" First, they changed up the sacrilage, but they didnt 'fix' it, its still a sorry excuse for a hac unfortunately. Yes, the diemos needs help. GASP. but guess what, so do other hacs, but the rest arent whining as much as you lot are. Thats what im getting at. Ever flown a muninn? they have to fit two RCU II's JUST to fit guns and a mwd and you want to be able to fit every PG costly mod on your ship to make it uber. Nope not gonna happen sorry. be happy your diemos does 800 DPS, you shouldnt be able to be FAST, have a uber tank, and do 800 dps. nope no way, eve would be broken. Since you have no clue what you are talking about, please just stop posting. I managed to squeeze this setup on a Muninn with .5 PG left at Adv Weap Ups 4: 5x 220 vulcan IIs 2x Medium Diminishing Nos 1x Y-t8 mwd 1x fleeting web 1x fleeting scram 1x med rep II 2x Passive Hards 1x DCU 1x Gyro II Looks like a solid setup to me. Full rack of the second best guns with TWO nos. The deimos cannot even fit a full rack of it's second best guns and ONE nos. Muninn can fit two without any fitting mods whatsoever and you are trying to compare the two. The real kicker is the RUPTURE has the same base powergrid as the frickin Deimos. Now try that with 720 howitzers ,vagabond-+220 ; munnin-+720 howitzers .
GO MaZ No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.08.18 17:27:00 - [798] Originally by: Pesadel0 Now try that with 720 howitzers ,vagabond-+220 ; munnin-+720 howitzers . Try fitting 250mm Railgun II's on a deimos, same problem Member of the Ex-KSC retard-spellers club.
supreme gunna	Posted - 2006.08.18 17:44:00 - [799] Originally by: GO MaZ Originally by: Pesadel0 Now try that with 720 howitzers ,vagabond-+220 ; munnin-+720 howitzers . Try fitting 250mm Railgun II's on a deimos, same problem THE diemos was designed a blaster boat, the muninn was designed as a artillery boat, hence their bonuses.
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.18 17:47:00 - [800] Originally by: supreme gunna Originally by: Kunming WTB deimos with 800 DPS!! even megathron with neutrons and 2 dmg mods cant get 800 DPS. Stop spreading around bull****. Deimos (with full ions and 2 dmg mods) has same DPS (around 450) as Ishtar (with ogre IIs, no turrets), only difference is that deimos needs to be within 3km for its DPS to be effective. Now give deimos enough PG to fit a full rack of neutrons, it still does only around 480 DPS (with the 2 dmg mods still fitted). Med blasters suck ass when it comes to dmg and deimos is still not viable over an ishtar. Its simply not worth getting your self so close to the target to gain 10% more DPS, thats diminished by the travel time anyways. Deimos needs to be utterly devastating within 3km atm its rather a joke or pride thing to fly this ship. Its ben proven that a diemos can do betwen 700 to 800 dps, read again. So think before you call other noobs, you noob. Ok for the silly guy that posted a setup of a muninn with autocannons, I gotta say ROFL, in case you didnt know the muninn is a artillery boat not a AC boat, so pls stay back in your corner and be quiet. Now Ill stop being so smacky. 1600 ms is good speed for a hac that can dish out a godly 800 dps at his optimal. capish. What the heck are you on about?! yes deimos can put out 880 raw DPS, but thats with 5 T2 heavy neutron blasters fitted with void and 4 mag stabs + 5 HH IIs, NO MWD, NO REP and NO TANK whatsoever, we are talking about realistic setups here and realistic DPS not just theoretical on hull with a 'god save us' tank. I never said anyone was a noob, but if you think I am one, think again, I never lost a deimos ...ever (except the ally champ) and I never use WCS. Anxious to meet your main in space! ATM 'Ishtar > Deimos at all ranges', no point in choosing deimos over ishtar in any situation. It should be 'Deimos > REST @ blaster range' and 'REST > Deimos at other ranges'.

Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.18 17:49:00 - [801] Originally by: supreme gunna Originally by: GO MaZ Originally by: Pesadel0 Now try that with 720 howitzers ,vagabond-+220 ; munnin-+720 howitzers . Try fitting 250mm Railgun II's on a deimos, same problem THE diemos was designed a blaster boat, the muninn was designed as a artillery boat, hence their bonuses. Dude **** off and make your own muninn thread.. actually you know what I'll make a nerf muninn thread and you can visit us all there
Pesadel0	Posted - 2006.08.18 17:52:00 - [802] Originally by: Kunming Originally by: supreme gunna Originally by: GO MaZ Originally by: Pesadel0 Now try that with 720 howitzers ,vagabond-+220 ; munnin-+720 howitzers . Try fitting 250mm Railgun II's on a deimos, same problem THE diemos was designed a blaster boat, the muninn was designed as a artillery boat, hence their bonuses. Dude **** off and make your own muninn thread.. actually you know what I'll make a nerf muninn thread and you can visit us all there Maybe CCP could fix the broken ships(minmatar carrier,most of the amar ships) first and then try to balance the not-so-broken ships(deimos,munnin). How about that Sherlock?
Xoduse Beasts of Burden Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.18 17:53:00 - [803] Originally by: supreme gunna Edited by: supreme gunna on 18/08/2006 07:05:39 Originally by: Xoduse Edited by: Xoduse on 18/08/2006 05:25:35 Originally by: supreme gunna man you gallante sure are whinners! Ok so you dont have the best hac in the game, BOO HOOOO get over it. you guys have ace ships in other ship categories, and other races have crap ships in other categories. the ishtar is a fine hac, and the diemos is OK, its not awesome, its good. like the zealot is good too, and other races have crap hacs too, have you seen the sacrilage?? have you seen the muninn??. So please stop your whining. I've seen many people cry out to the Devs asking particular ships to be looked at. The instance that stands out in my mind the most is the Sacrilage. You say it is crap but if i remember correctly it used to be alot worse, with no damage bonus at all. But players presented their argument, and Tux fixed the Sac for them. This thread represents our argument for the Deimos. As for the gallente whining bit - as far as I've seen characters of all races have attested here that the Deimos needs some help. If all you can post is ignorance, do not post at all. Or since you worded you post as a 10 year old might "If you cannot say anything nice, don't say anything at all" First, they changed up the sacrilage, but they didnt 'fix' it, its still a sorry excuse for a hac unfortunately. Yes, the diemos needs help. GASP. but guess what, so do other hacs, but the rest arent whining as much as you lot are. Thats what im getting at. Ever flown a muninn? they have to fit two RCU II's JUST to fit guns and a mwd and you want to be able to fit every PG costly mod on your ship to make it uber. Nope not gonna happen sorry. be happy your diemos does 800 DPS, you shouldnt be able to be FAST, have a uber tank, and do 800 dps. nope no way, eve would be broken. Ok slap me for making a setup with autocannons on the Muninn, i'm not minmitar and I dont fly their ships. I know the Vaga is an autocannon platform but wasnt sure about the Muninn. But before you shove it down my throat "supreme gunna" you should note that you said it takes 2 RCUs to squeeze on guns and a mwd. What the hell does an artillery boat need an mwd for? You compared the Deimos to the Muninn so i figured you were comparing them both as close range fighters. Now that I know without a doubt the Muninn is an arty boat your comparison is pointless. I'm the silly guy that posted a Muninn with autocannons, ok I admit i dont fly them. Your the silly guy comparing an Arty platform with an mwd to a Deimos. The Deimos is broken, calling us whiners just fills our thread of legitimate arguments and ideas with junk. ---------------------
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.18 18:01:00 - [804] Originally by: Pesadel0 Originally by: Kunming Originally by: supreme gunna Originally by: GO MaZ Originally by: Pesadel0 Now try that with 720 howitzers ,vagabond-+220 ; munnin-+720 howitzers . Try fitting 250mm Railgun II's on a deimos, same problem THE diemos was designed a blaster boat, the muninn was designed as a artillery boat, hence their bonuses. Dude ** off and make your own muninn thread.. actually you know what I'll make a nerf muninn thread and you can visit us all there Maybe CCP could fix the broken ships(minmatar carrier,most of the amar ships) first and then try to balance the not-so-broken ships(deimos,munnin). How about that Sherlock? Ahh another one, are u guys growing on a tree or what?! If you have a problem with other ships then go create new topics about them, put up valid arguments and stuff, I do agree with the amarr ships and minnie carrier being borked but you wont be seeing me in a Amarr thread whining about the deimos. The deimos was broken before CCP borked Amarr with EM dmg and EANMs, and before the carriers even came out. The discussion about the deimos is going on for a very long time now and unlike caldari and amarr threads there is a rather low number of gallente forum ***s so it takes a long time for CCP to respond.
Pesadel0	Posted - 2006.08.18 18:19:00 - [805] Originally by: Kunming Originally by: Pesadel0 Originally by: Kunming Originally by: supreme gunna Originally by: GO MaZ Originally by: Pesadel0 Now try that with 720 howitzers ,vagabond-+220 ; munnin-+720 howitzers . Try fitting 250mm Railgun II's on a deimos, same problem THE diemos was designed a blaster boat, the muninn was designed as a artillery boat, hence their bonuses. Dude ** off and make your own muninn thread.. actually you know what I'll make a nerf muninn thread and you can visit us all there Maybe CCP could fix the broken ships(minmatar carrier,most of the amar ships) first and then try to balance the not-so-broken ships(deimos,munnin). How about that Sherlock? Ahh another one, are u guys growing on a tree or what?! If you have a problem with other ships then go create new topics about them, put up valid arguments and stuff, I do agree with the amarr ships and minnie carrier being borked but you wont be seeing me in a Amarr thread whining about the deimos. The deimos was broken before CCP borked Amarr with EM dmg and EANMs, and before the carriers even came out. The discussion about the deimos is going on for a very long time now and unlike caldari and amarr threads there is a rather low number of gallente forum *s so it takes a long time for CCP to respond. The discussion for amarr is still going and you even got a dev response how about that for recognition.. Few galente forum ***s?I beg to differ because this thread has been necroed since ...well for ever :\| . How many caldary whine threads did you saw this month?I saw none ,maybe because they are "fine" ?The only time caldari whined was when their missiles got nerfed. The deimos isn't broken beyond belief has you guys make it, it has some issues like the munnin and the sacri ,Hell i still see them sell in market for about 200M ,if it is that bad why doenst it sell for 95M like the munnin?
supreme gunna	Posted - 2006.08.18 18:40:00 - [806] Im not here to gain support about the muninn, personally I dont care about that ship, im not minmatar I dont fly their ships. Im here to whine abuot you whiners. My point is there are other hacs in more need than the diemos, like the muninn sacrilage cerberus, but you dont see them whining like you lot do. Dont like a diemos? fly a ishtar then dont like a ishtar fly something else.
GO MaZ No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.08.18 18:47:00 - [807] Originally by: Pesadel0 The discussion for amarr is still going and you even got a dev response how about that for recognition.. A one line post saying "i'll look into it" and then nothing for 3+ months is hardly a dev response. Originally by: supreme gunna My point is there are other hacs in more need than the diemos, like the muninn sacrilage CERBERUS, but you dont see them whining like you lot do. Ahaha, now I know you're talking **** - start a cerb thread and see how many people want it boosted Member of the Ex-KSC retard-spellers club.
supreme gunna	Posted - 2006.08.18 18:48:00 - [808] so you agree with the rest of what i said then, good boy. your learning
GO MaZ No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.08.18 18:59:00 - [809] Originally by: supreme gunna so you agree with the rest of what i said then, good boy. your learning I dont fly the muninn, sac, cerb, ishtar, zealot or vaga, I fly the deimos. Hence why I am posting in a thread about the deimos. I am not whining, I STILL fly the Deimos as it is and I have fun doing it, but I want the ship to live up to its description. Y'know what, I dont give a ****, if you think other ships need boosting make a damn thread and stop trolling this thread because of "gallente whiners" Member of the Ex-KSC retard-spellers club.
supreme gunna	Posted - 2006.08.18 19:30:00 - [810] Edited by: supreme gunna on 18/08/2006 19:30:23 Originally by: GO MaZ Originally by: supreme gunna so you agree with the rest of what i said then, good boy. your learning I dont fly the muninn, sac, cerb, ishtar, zealot or vaga, I fly the deimos. Hence why I am posting in a thread about the deimos. I am not whining, I STILL fly the Deimos as it is and I have fun doing it, but I want the ship to live up to its description. Y'know what, I dont give a ****, if you think other ships need boosting make a damn thread and stop trolling this thread because of "gallente whiners" but dont you think a 30 page is excessive for this little whining matter?

supreme gunna	Posted - 2006.08.18 19:54:00 - [811] GOD your still whining?
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.18 19:54:00 - [812] Originally by: supreme gunna Edited by: supreme gunna on 18/08/2006 19:30:23 Originally by: GO MaZ Originally by: supreme gunna so you agree with the rest of what i said then, good boy. your learning I dont fly the muninn, sac, cerb, ishtar, zealot or vaga, I fly the deimos. Hence why I am posting in a thread about the deimos. I am not whining, I STILL fly the Deimos as it is and I have fun doing it, but I want the ship to live up to its description. Y'know what, I dont give a ****, if you think other ships need boosting make a damn thread and stop trolling this thread because of "gallente whiners" but dont you think a 30 page is excessive for this little whining matter? Dont know about that, but thx for the constant bumping today
GO MaZ No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.08.18 19:54:00 - [813] Originally by: supreme gunna but dont you think a 30 page is excessive for this little whining matter? 28 pages, and it looks like you've done the most whining in this entire thread Member of the Ex-KSC retard-spellers club.
supreme gunna	Posted - 2006.08.18 19:55:00 - [814] np about the bumping
GO MaZ No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.08.18 19:56:00 - [815] Originally by: supreme gunna np about the bumping Cheers, hopefully the longer this stays at the top the more people will realise that its something that needs doing Member of the Ex-KSC retard-spellers club.
supreme gunna	Posted - 2006.08.18 20:03:00 - [816] I higly doubt that
Durethia RillaCorp	Posted - 2006.08.18 20:06:00 - [817] Originally by: supreme gunna but dont you think a 30 page is excessive for this little whining matter? A THIRTY page thread, largely composed of mutual agreement, is strongly indicative to something being wrong or undesired. A prince ought to have no other aim or thought, nor select anything else for his study, than war and its rules and discipline... --Nicolo Machiavelli (1505 AD)
Hellspawn01 Amarr	Posted - 2006.08.18 20:21:00 - [818] Originally by: Xathax Edited by: Xathax on 18/08/2006 15:17:31 Originally by: Hellspawn01 Edited by: Hellspawn01 on 18/08/2006 14:33:32 Here is my deimos setup. Plz keep in mind that I¦m a tank and no gank pilot. Damage comes only from skills. 5x Heavy Ion Blaster II ... ... Btw, sacrilege and zealot have also trouble fitting the strongest gun in their class with a decent tank. That only leaves the cerberus and eagle with the strongest guns. Dunno about minmatar HACs cuz I¦m still training for them. Since when are Ions the strongest blaster? Apologies if its not much clearer. I ment that the caldari HACs can fit heavy launchers/250mm rails and tank with ease unlike Sac/zealot/deimos. A grid boost would give the deimos and a very good skilled pilot the opportunity to fit neutrons and a tank and maybe a damage mod/plate too. Ship lovers click here
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.18 20:25:00 - [819] Originally by: supreme gunna ... My point is there are other hacs in more need than the diemos, like the muninn sacrilage cerberus, but you dont see them whining like you lot do. Dont like a diemos? fly a ishtar then dont like a ishtar fly something else. Muninn has same problem as deimos. Sacrilage needs 1 more turret slot and an RoF bonus instead of dmg. Cerb, I dont really see any problem, except the missing assault missiles which will be added anyway. Also I do believe zealot needs 25m3 drone bay. And Vaga is slightly too fast with snakes. Ishtar will be balanced once nos and ECM are nerfed, I agree its slightly overpowered with that particular setup atm. There you have all the HAC whining, no one in this thread said fixing the deimos is the most important task of the devs, infact I rather have T2 BPO issue fixed first, or long range and short range balanced in fleets. But this issue has been going on since before couple major content patches and its about time we get some devs answers other than just 'its being looked at'. BTW the amarr issue is well known by the devs, it was even mentioned in the dev blogs... Also I wont fly an ishtar 1st cause I'm a turret pilot (and in love with blasters) and 2nd cause I dont fly overpowered ships (just like I dont fly the crow, even though I have all the skills).
supreme gunna	Posted - 2006.08.18 20:27:00 - [820] a cerb might be able to have a strong shield tank but then he is of no value to a gang, if it doesnt have a mwd to move with it, or a 20km disruptor to scramble things.

supreme gunna	Posted - 2006.08.18 20:29:00 - [821] Edited by: supreme gunna on 18/08/2006 20:29:21 heck if it were to fit a mwd and 20k, it would leave it 3 slots for tank, wuoldnt be much of a GOOD tank, a decent tank still sure. also its got alot worse dps
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.18 20:36:00 - [822] Originally by: supreme gunna Edited by: supreme gunna on 18/08/2006 20:29:21 heck if it were to fit a mwd and 20k, it would leave it 3 slots for tank, wuoldnt be much of a GOOD tank, a decent tank still sure. also its got alot worse dps DPS issue will be addressed with the assault missiles and think of the cerb like the maelstorm, its a great arty boat but wont be able to tackle, just like the cerb will be a great missile boat but without tackling. Caldari have one of the best ceptors use them in a group and you will achieve great things. No ship is meant to be a solo-pwn-mobile.. u know!
Bazman Caldari The Establishment	Posted - 2006.08.18 20:37:00 - [823] My Deimos is obsolete now mm, T2 Heavy Drones, mmmm Ishtar Shame it isn't as cool as ripping someones guts out with Blasters, you know, if you can catch them, and survive the damage long enough, or have enough cap to kill them etc ----- Sig removed, maximum allowed image dimensions are 400x120 and maximum allowed size is 24,000 bytes. Please contact [email protected] for more info (including a copy of your picture!) -wystler Hi TUXFORD! Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks. I am a
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.18 20:43:00 - [824] Originally by: Bazman My Deimos is obsolete now mm, T2 Heavy Drones, mmmm Ishtar Shame it isn't as cool as ripping someones guts out with Blasters, you know, if you can catch them, and survive the damage long enough, or have enough cap to kill them etc OR have enough DMG to make the trip there worth it
Bazman Caldari The Establishment	Posted - 2006.08.18 20:45:00 - [825] Originally by: Kunming Originally by: Bazman My Deimos is obsolete now mm, T2 Heavy Drones, mmmm Ishtar Shame it isn't as cool as ripping someones guts out with Blasters, you know, if you can catch them, and survive the damage long enough, or have enough cap to kill them etc OR have enough DMG to make the trip there worth it We have green engine trails though! omg ----- Sig removed, maximum allowed image dimensions are 400x120 and maximum allowed size is 24,000 bytes. Please contact [email protected] for more info (including a copy of your picture!) -wystler Hi TUXFORD! Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks. I am a
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.18 20:46:00 - [826] Originally by: Bazman Originally by: Kunming Originally by: Bazman My Deimos is obsolete now mm, T2 Heavy Drones, mmmm Ishtar Shame it isn't as cool as ripping someones guts out with Blasters, you know, if you can catch them, and survive the damage long enough, or have enough cap to kill them etc OR have enough DMG to make the trip there worth it We have green engine trails though! omg Yeah thats always cool watching
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.18 20:54:00 - [827] OMG supreme gunna pls come back.. the thread just dropped to the 5th row
CherniyVolk	Posted - 2006.08.18 21:46:00 - [828] "Deimos" is Greek, and loosely means "terror" or "panic". Since no other HAC pilot panics landing near a Deimos, nor are they terrorized... Perhaps we can request Tuxford rename the ship to "Fiasco"? Probably alot less controversial and effortless than actually fixing the ship.
GO MaZ No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.08.18 22:02:00 - [829] Originally by: CherniyVolk "Deimos" is Greek, and loosely means "terror" or "panic". Since no other HAC pilot panics landing near a Deimos, nor are they terrorized... Perhaps we can request Tuxford rename the ship to "Fiasco"? Probably alot less controversial and effortless than actually fixing the ship. Ysee, this is whats up. I want people to be SCARED of my deimos when i zerg up to 2k from them, but I generally recieve a "lol, up yours" in local as my target either ganks me or warps off before i get in range Member of the Ex-KSC retard-spellers club.
Audrea Widowmakers Novus Ordos Seclorum	Posted - 2006.08.18 23:49:00 - [830] Jeeze I posted on page 17 IIRC, and all dev responce was "I'll look into it"?! how disappointing! MONTHS passed, and I completed the Deimos skills, I was hoping by this time this ship would be freaking fixed! :( And what is this I hear of upcoming NOS and ECM nerf? can someone give link for more info pls? oh, and yet another bump! ------------------ Tired of fleet combat lag? -Post HERE All posts are my personal opinions.

Durethia RillaCorp	Posted - 2006.08.20 12:05:00 - [831] Edited by: Durethia on 20/08/2006 12:05:30 Inspired by TheKiller8.... RABBLE.... RABBLE RABBLE!!!! rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble bump A prince ought to have no other aim or thought, nor select anything else for his study, than war and its rules and discipline... --Nicolo Machiavelli (1505 AD)
Arknox	Posted - 2006.08.20 12:37:00 - [832] Edited by: Arknox on 20/08/2006 12:37:42 a Deimos isn't a bad ship, its just horrible compaired to other hacs. A slight increase in powergrid and cpu will do miracles... ... do miracles happen ? and yes a deimos should make other pilots freak out when it warps in on top of you , just like a blasterthron does rabble
Sadist SWIFTS Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.08.21 20:07:00 - [833] Originally by: Arknox a Deimos isn't a bad ship, its just horrible compaired to other hacs. and yes a deimos should make other pilots freak out when it warps in on top of you , just like a blasterthron does rabble You realize how oxymoronic that first statement of yours was? Deimos is, by far, the worst hac atm, because it simply cannot sustain any tank cap-wise (and mwd while doing so) or stay outside of web range. It also cannot hit for ** even at the limits of web range, being 8-10km, due to completely ridiculous range on electrons with void/am. Did i mention total vulnerability to EW/NOS/minmatar recons? Saying something is horrible in comparison to ships of its own class automatically makes this a pretty crap ship. And this is not directed just at this particular poster. òòòòòòòòòòòò VIP member of the [23] Quote:** - Numbers alone do not win a battle - No, but I bet they help.
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.08.21 20:34:00 - [834] problem with deimos is it's so tied into 1 role namely getting close and dishing out damage, well its DPS isn't that too much far apart with the zealot/cerberus/muninn/vaga and it can't utilise its dps anyway cuz it'll be dead/out of cap when it reaches its target... Cuz the difference between the zealot/cerberus/muninn/vaga and the deimos is that the other ships can dish out not-alot-less dps from upto 30km, which the exception of the cerberus but that's just nasty, and they can tank quite well while they're at it
ElCoCo Gallente KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.08.21 20:40:00 - [835] Whenever I want to get my deimos out for combat I fiddle around a bit with it trying to get a decent fitting that's worth it ... then I say nah, I'll get something else. I wonder why.
Durethia RillaCorp	Posted - 2006.08.26 00:14:00 - [836] Thought I'd slap this thread back on front page. Tuxford! A reply from you is like waiting for a prayer to be answered... it's only becuase of faith, that you might exist! Please. More Powergrid, more Agility! A prince ought to have no other aim or thought, nor select anything else for his study, than war and its rules and discipline... --Nicolo Machiavelli (1505 AD)
Hellspawn01 Amarr	Posted - 2006.09.04 13:00:00 - [837] R.I.P. Deimos Ship lovers click here
Skrypt Gallente Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.04 13:22:00 - [838] This necromancy is absolutely necessary! 30 pages, Tux! Do something about this. ___________
Gasi Kobayashi	Posted - 2006.09.04 13:49:00 - [839] ahm ... Amarr thread got something like 71 pages and there's still no yellow response
Kel Dario Amarr Vortex. Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.04 13:51:00 - [840] Edited by: Kel Dario on 04/09/2006 13:51:36 You guys don't give up do you? The Devs will fix the Deimos when they have the time to fix it. Of course that will newer happen. They are busy introducing new stuff that will be borked and will need to be fixed first

Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.04 14:53:00 - [841] Originally by: Gasi Kobayashi ahm ... Amarr thread got something like 71 pages and there's still no yellow response Yeah but this thread has a bit more substance to it then lotsa whining. :-P
Miklas Laces A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A	Posted - 2006.09.08 17:40:00 - [842] I remember a Dev saying that the blaster changes would have helped the Deimos.
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.09 11:44:00 - [843] Originally by: Kel Dario Edited by: Kel Dario on 04/09/2006 13:51:36 You guys don't give up do you? The Devs will fix the Deimos when they have the time to fix it. Of course that will newer happen. They are busy introducing new stuff that will be borked and will need to be fixed first Right, BTW fixing Amarr is not as easy as fixing the deimos.. deimos is slower than thorax, needs more PG and agility. All that clueless dev called TUXFORD has to do is change stats on test server and wait for some feedback ("whaa overpowered" or "cool, its fine now")... That should take him about 10 mins to change I'd say, unless the stats are hardcoded which they are not. Since years has this ship been gimped; common the players even did most of the math work in this thread... DO SOMETHING!
Akiman	Posted - 2006.09.09 13:53:00 - [844] add more pg more speed!!! pg on deimos sux big time!!!!
slothe Caldari Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.09.09 14:12:00 - [845] just pg boost would be fine i think.
SasRipper Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.09 14:33:00 - [846] MORE POWERGRID!!! and reduce mass!!! closest range hac has slowest base speed! Originally by: Santiago Cortes Please don't derail your own thread.
Frater Perdurabo The Ancient Illuminated Seers of Bavaria	Posted - 2006.09.10 18:38:00 - [847] Bumpy bumpy for what its worth. Why does the deimos have 10m/s less speed than the thorax? Why does... no scratch that, why am i bothering since after reading this thread i can see that its all been said before?
Izekeil Fel Independant Contractors	Posted - 2006.09.10 21:51:00 - [848] /signed PG on Deimos really needs to be seriously looked at, being able to fit the mid level tech 2 guns with MWD should be possible Recruitment
Pesadel0 Vagabundos	Posted - 2006.09.10 21:52:00 - [849] Gogo guys you only have 43 pages to equal the amar thread.
Izo Azlion Veto.	Posted - 2006.09.10 21:59:00 - [850] Come on man let us have more Grid.... :/ its still not happened and we have like... soooo many pages. Izo Azlion. ---

twit brent Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.09.10 22:16:00 - [851] Deimos is a joke right now please fix it. Playing arround with a thorax and he owned me. How? he had a multispec which jammed me twice straight up. After the second cycle finished he had prety much had me nossed to death :(. Luckily was playing arround with a friend and i didnt take it to fight an enemy.
Bloodst0ne The Priory	Posted - 2006.09.11 02:11:00 - [852] Originally by: Tuxford Wow long thread. If it makes you feel any better then I've noticed it and I'll look into it. By my count that was approx. 102 days ago.. Geesh look into it already. The usual: agility sig grid /signed blah blah -blood I have the "I Win Button" of eve.
Frater Perdurabo The Ancient Illuminated Seers of Bavaria	Posted - 2006.09.11 02:19:00 - [853] Originally by: Pesadel0 Gogo guys you only have 43 pages to equal the amar thread. We'd better post some more then ...and leave more gaps in our posts to increase the page count
Bloodst0ne The Priory	Posted - 2006.09.11 22:11:00 - [854] Edited by: Bloodst0ne on 11/09/2006 22:11:41 Originally by: Frater Perdurabo Originally by: Pesadel0 Gogo guys you only have 43 pages to equal the amar thread. We'd better post some more then ...and leave more gaps in our posts to increase the page count yep bumpage.. I have the "I Win Button" of eve.
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.09.11 22:17:00 - [855] Oh, for the love of... don't bump. Also, skip the spacing. Forums show 30 posts per page regardless of whether they are single character posts or 4000 line break posts. - Base insurance payout: 40% of ship base price Platinum cost: 33% of ship base price Platinum payout: 100% of ship base price Ship base prices can be found in CCP's Item Database.
CherniyVolk	Posted - 2006.09.11 23:30:00 - [856] A descendant of Erebus, we expect ferocity Any pilot in a Deimos, a dormant atrocity. With second rate weaponry, we dive into the void Becuase we can barely move, we become the void. We fit our ships, with hope our only stride Soon over Teamspeak with humbled voice, 'I died'. With negligable margins, we have more DPS With practical reality, our guns are beset Heavy Neutron IIs would be appreciated flattery The Deimos' Right, to commit Assault and Battery For all we desire, this is our loudest plea If within range, a pilot ought to flee. We demand a perimeter, were one may point and laugh But one step within, then feel our unforgiving wrath!
GO MaZ No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.09.11 23:35:00 - [857] Originally by: CherniyVolk A descendant of Erebus, we expect ferocity Any pilot in a Deimos, a dormant atrocity. With second rate weaponry, we dive into the void Becuase we can barely move, we become the void. We fit our ships, with hope our only stride Soon over Teamspeak with humbled voice, 'I died'. With negligable margins, we have more DPS With practical reality, our guns are beset Heavy Neutron IIs would be appreciated flattery The Deimos' Right, to commit Assault and Battery For all we desire, this is our loudest plea If within range, a pilot ought to flee. We demand a perimeter, were one may point and laugh But one step within, then feel our unforgiving wrath! Ahaha awesome, if this doesnt convince tux to fix it, nothing will. Good job dude Member of the Ex-KSC retard-spellers club.
Nahia Senne Fortunis Novum Black Flag Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.12 00:48:00 - [858] i will be able to fly one soon, please fix it by then
Dethis Caldari The Graduates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.12 02:18:00 - [859] /signed -------- Kill em all and let god sort em out
Audrea Widowmakers Novus Ordos Seclorum	Posted - 2006.09.13 02:10:00 - [860] Originally by: Frater Perdurabo Originally by: Pesadel0 Gogo guys you only have 43 pages to equal the amar thread. We'd better post some more then ...and leave more gaps in our posts to increase the page count 43 pages to go! And to add something: It doesnt make sense that the only way to properly setup this ship is with expensive faction gear ------------------ Tired of fleet combat lag? -Post HERE All posts are my personal opinions.

Gee'Kin Tha Specialz	Posted - 2006.09.13 07:47:00 - [861] i luv to take out my deimos for a ride again. But pfft. its soo ****ty to fit. i rather use my thorax for it. and true. all the ships i have. the deimos moves like a arsh --------------------------------------------> Plz tickle my brain. I wanna have a Brainfart ! -------------------------------------------->
Troubadour Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2006.09.13 08:13:00 - [862] I have to agree with dash. The deimos can't even fit a rack of medium grade weapons (t2 ions) without taking up one of it's lows for an RCU. When I first got hacs I was all excited about the deimos and it's damage bonus and the fact it was a blaster boat. Turns out the ishtar is a better blaster boat, it can also use ECM, and tanks better. I gave up on the deimos along time ago. Until it gets more grid i'm not using it just because it is so frustrating to fit. I'm never happy with it, or comfortable flying it.
XZeroXCompanyX	Posted - 2006.09.14 12:52:00 - [863] /signed
Dragy	Posted - 2006.09.15 23:42:00 - [864] Despite all adversity, great odds and everything that i've managed to read here i'm still skilling for Deimos ... I know. This is called insanity. My corpmate that has Deimos and related skills to lvl4 (with t2 med blasters of course) was raped by my in my pest so many times ... he was using different setups but with the same result. I even didnt use my drones or 2 heavy nos, which would just *****Deimos within 10 secs. I understand that t2 cruiser cannot pwn everything, but it should stand some chance against my pest ... Not to mention that it warps a lil bit faster then my pest ... hello ? Yes, you did hear good. Not that it's agility/mass sucks, then cap and the fact that it can run out of it so fast that almost in every situation it dies and not to mention lack of pg to fit anything reasonable. I know, you can't have tank + gank and a same time, but she should be able to fit IONS + MED NOS + MWD + MED REP + 800 PLATE. Then we can say that Deimos is as good as it always should be. She is so pretty ... despite everything that i wrote here i'll fly her ... but don't know how long i'll manage to do it with my isk
Magniacapra	Posted - 2006.09.15 23:53:00 - [865] I hear there boosting the speed and agility of battlecruisers...
GO MaZ No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.09.16 00:05:00 - [866] Originally by: Magniacapra I hear there boosting the speed and agility of battlecruisers... Maybe they'll do something about the agility and weight of the deimos when they realise that battlecruisers move around faster than it Member of the Ex-KSC retard-spellers club.
Dragy	Posted - 2006.09.16 09:03:00 - [867] Or they do something ... or everyone will be using astrate instead of Deimos
Dragy	Posted - 2006.09.17 18:07:00 - [868] I made some calculations and they are wrong =( ... Have heard something different fom someone and wanted to make sure. Is it possible to get 2,1 sec rof and 14-16 dmg mod on Heavy Neutron II gun with maxed skills with : 5% dmg implant, -5% rof implant AND 3-4 magnetic stabs II ? I've done the calculation myself but still didnt get this result, plz help.
Izo Azlion Veto.	Posted - 2006.09.17 20:25:00 - [869] Originally by: Troubadour I have to agree with dash. The deimos can't even fit a rack of medium grade weapons (t2 ions) without taking up one of it's lows for an RCU. When I first got hacs I was all excited about the deimos and it's damage bonus and the fact it was a blaster boat. Turns out the ishtar is a better blaster boat, it can also use ECM, and tanks better. I gave up on the deimos along time ago. Until it gets more grid i'm not using it just because it is so frustrating to fit. I'm never happy with it, or comfortable flying it. Advanced Weapon Upgrades. Train it. But I do agree. Lets have some bonus for it please? Its getting annoying :p Izo Azlion. ---
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.18 08:19:00 - [870] Originally by: Izo Azlion Originally by: Troubadour I have to agree with dash. The deimos can't even fit a rack of medium grade weapons (t2 ions) without taking up one of it's lows for an RCU. When I first got hacs I was all excited about the deimos and it's damage bonus and the fact it was a blaster boat. Turns out the ishtar is a better blaster boat, it can also use ECM, and tanks better. I gave up on the deimos along time ago. Until it gets more grid i'm not using it just because it is so frustrating to fit. I'm never happy with it, or comfortable flying it. Advanced Weapon Upgrades. Train it. But I do agree. Lets have some bonus for it please? Its getting annoying :p Lol most of the peeps commenting on this have already done this quite some time ago.... this isn't a thread filled with 2 month old chars you know.

Izo Azlion Veto.	Posted - 2006.09.18 19:25:00 - [871] Originally by: Gariuys Originally by: Izo Azlion Originally by: Troubadour I have to agree with dash. The deimos can't even fit a rack of medium grade weapons (t2 ions) without taking up one of it's lows for an RCU. When I first got hacs I was all excited about the deimos and it's damage bonus and the fact it was a blaster boat. Turns out the ishtar is a better blaster boat, it can also use ECM, and tanks better. I gave up on the deimos along time ago. Until it gets more grid i'm not using it just because it is so frustrating to fit. I'm never happy with it, or comfortable flying it. Advanced Weapon Upgrades. Train it. But I do agree. Lets have some bonus for it please? Its getting annoying :p Lol most of the peeps commenting on this have already done this quite some time ago.... this isn't a thread filled with 2 month old chars you know. Crap, forgot that. Shows how long they have actually left it. :/ my bad anyway. Izo Azlion. ---
bgbfdg	Posted - 2006.09.18 19:54:00 - [872] The Deimos is currently acting as an oversized Thorax. It works slightly the same, but it does have a few advantages. Woo. Other HACs achieve a state where people are arguing about how they can fight it out with battleships. We've just got a nice t1 cruiser out of the HAC deal, only it takes a couple months of training. If the Ishtar sucked I'd be screaming about it(luckily with the current nos/ecm/drone ***** ability, it's actually an awesome ship). Make the Deimos usable against other HACs, and I mean really USABLE. Enough PG to fit full medium guns and an MWD without a fitting mod, not more than that but enough to put a rep on too would be nice and not unbalanced at all. Higher base speed and agility.
Svenholio	Posted - 2006.09.18 20:52:00 - [873] THe thorax was my first ship that i REALLY wanted, and ever since I learned of the Deimos, that was what I wanted to progress too. I really hope it is not so ineffective by the time i can get into it, another 1.5 months.
Tuschii Pirates of Destruction Union	Posted - 2006.09.21 16:16:00 - [874] Originally by: Svenholio THe thorax was my first ship that i REALLY wanted, and ever since I learned of the Deimos, that was what I wanted to progress too. I really hope it is not so ineffective by the time i can get into it, another 1.5 months. My dilemma exactly. TUX, more pg, more speed, more agility come on.....s'go.
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.21 16:58:00 - [875] Originally by: bgbfdg The Deimos is currently acting as an oversized Thorax. It works slightly the same, but it does have a few advantages. Woo. Other HACs achieve a state where people are arguing about how they can fight it out with battleships. We've just got a nice t1 cruiser out of the HAC deal, only it takes a couple months of training. If the Ishtar sucked I'd be screaming about it(luckily with the current nos/ecm/drone ***** ability, it's actually an awesome ship). Make the Deimos usable against other HACs, and I mean really USABLE. Enough PG to fit full medium guns and an MWD without a fitting mod, not more than that but enough to put a rep on too would be nice and not unbalanced at all. Higher base speed and agility. The deimos is not an oversized thorax, it can definetly not be classed as a HAC IMO, its stats are more in line with a faction ship and I saw the vigilant out perform the deimos in many cases due to the 4 mids over 3.. Critical points why the deimos SUX: Thorax speed 180 - 10 = Deimos Speed 170 Thorax sig radius 140 + 20 = Deimos sig radius 160 Thorax PG 820 + 40 = Deimos PG 860 Thorax CPU 300 + 30 = Deimos CPU 330 Thorax Slots 5/3/5 + 1 HI + 1 LOW = Deimos Slots 6/3/6 (should have been 1 MED and 1 LOW) Thorax Sensor strength 15 = Deimos Sensor strength 15 Thorax Scan Resolution 225mm = Deimos Scan Resolution 225mm Deimos is simply a thorax thats been gimped and then pimped again with T2 resist and an additional +25% dmg bonus, without the T2 resists it carely cuts it to be classified as a faction ship.. compared to other HACs it sux!!
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.23 08:40:00 - [876] Another issue that effects Deimos: Heavy Neutron Blaster Raw DPS of Deimos with: 5 Heavy Neutron Blaster IIs (AM) + 2 Mag Stabs = 483 5 Heavy Ion Blaster IIs (AM) + 2 Mag Stabs = 454 PG requirement of: Heavy Neutron Blaster II = 212 Heavy Ion Blaster II = 158 Either reduce PG requirement of Heavy Neutron Blasters or up their dmg output so its not only a 29 DPS gain (with AM ammo) for the sacrefice of 100s of PG! This is a seperate issue and wont fix the deimos (which has already problems fitting full Ions), but it is an issue that effects the deimos first hand.
Grez Minmatar The Raven Warriors	Posted - 2006.09.23 09:01:00 - [877] Why does everyone want to fit Ions and Neutrons? Electrons work just fine for me... --- Cache Clearer Still waiting for a Wrangler-edit!
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.23 09:05:00 - [878] Originally by: Grez Why does everyone want to fit Ions and Neutrons? Electrons work just fine for me... Ions cause of the range with Null against AC-boats, but you are right: 5x Heavy Ion Blaster IIs + 2 Mag Stab = 423 Raw DPS..
Cuckoo	Posted - 2006.09.23 11:33:00 - [879] /signed
Hellraiza666 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.23 12:26:00 - [880] Boost deimos please, i want to pwn ships even more More speed and grid please. WOuld be lovely thanks.

Izo Azlion Veto.	Posted - 2006.09.23 13:11:00 - [881] Originally by: Grez Why does everyone want to fit Ions and Neutrons? Electrons work just fine for me... Some of us like having a high damage mod... Its a fast get in, get out gank ship... and its not performing as it should... If we had a bit more grid, dropped a high for a medium, I'd happily fit a Cap booster and be booster-reliant... Izo Azlion. ---
Audrea Momentum.	Posted - 2006.09.23 14:06:00 - [882] I dont know any other HACs which need faction fitting to have a chance on toe to toe stand against counterparts with only T2 gear! ------------------ Help save the Deimos! All posts are my personal opinions.
Bazman Caldari The Establishment Establishment	Posted - 2006.09.23 14:08:00 - [883] Has anyone seen tuxypoo lately? ----- Hi TUXFORD! Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks. I am a Gallente Whiner. Minmatar Whining is currently in training.
GO MaZ No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.09.23 16:27:00 - [884] Originally by: Bazman Has anyone seen tuxypoo lately? This thread has scared him off He probably boosted the PG and agility / speed a couple of weeks ago and has just been playing with the damn thing ever since, I know I would Member of the Ex-KSC retard-spellers club.
Kamate	Posted - 2006.09.23 18:11:00 - [885] As i have interjected over and over in this thread from time to time the deimos is borked to hell. To be honest i prefer to fly a brutix or cheapo thorax over my deimos....depending on the kit it is every bit as effective in most situations as a deimos and a hell of a lot cheaper. Just trained up an astarte as the deimos is broken....astarte is more what the deimos should be and the deimos is too close to a thorax for the additional 180 mill. Just not worth it till it gets some love. Please Tux for the love of blaster lovers everywhere.....fix it.
Wicked Wisdom Minmatar	Posted - 2006.09.23 19:19:00 - [886] Originally by: Bazman Has anyone seen tuxypoo lately? Hes busy getting whipped by the other Devs over how much the Hyperion sucks...
Dark Alex	Posted - 2006.09.23 22:42:00 - [887] Yeah. I want it to have 200m/s speed at least, that would be fair. Good agility. Grid to fit neutrons with deacent tank or ions with really nice tank. Devs should and will boost it in new patch. They MUST!
Waragha Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2006.09.23 22:45:00 - [888] Full ions, med nos, std meds. med rep, 800mm and else normal in lows. Is that so much to ask? :) Originally by: Trepkos ... The only difference between GS and NPC's are that GS respawn quicker.
Cuckoo	Posted - 2006.09.23 23:21:00 - [889] why the hell wont tuxford reply to this OR the amarr 1 kinda frustrating..
Nahia Senne Fortunis Novum Black Flag Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.23 23:27:00 - [890] Originally by: Cuckoo why the hell wont tuxford reply to this OR the amarr 1 kinda frustrating.. because it will start a flame fest and turn a 30 page thread into 130 page thread. for now, best you can do is keep this thread on the main page.

Hellspawn01 Amarr The Phantom Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.09.24 00:48:00 - [891] Originally by: Waragha Full ions, med nos, std meds. med rep, 800mm and else normal in lows. Is that so much to ask? :) Hey, where do you have my setup from? Ship lovers click here
Damis Zohar Pirates of Destruction Union	Posted - 2006.09.24 09:55:00 - [892] Currently the Demios is nothing more than an expensive dust collector. A full set of ions,mwd and a decent tank is not too much to ask for is it?
Jasmine Dupre Sha Kharn Corp Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.24 12:09:00 - [893] /signed I still havent used mine, Vigilant is currently way better! Fix please
Das Yad 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.09.25 02:50:00 - [894] Give her some love ♥ electrons just dont cut the mustard. they're nice on my mega but i can run a full dual repper setup on there.
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.25 07:20:00 - [895] Originally by: Das Yad Give her some love ♥ electrons just dont cut the mustard. they're nice on my mega but i can run a full dual repper setup on there. TBH if deimos got more PG I would still fit electrons (they do just 60 less DPS compared to neutrons, not to forget 5x Neutrons + 1 RCU + 1 Mag Stab < 5x Ions + 2 Mag Stab) and then fit a second med rep, ditch the web and fit a cap booster instead. The bigger blasters need a boost in dmg IMO, especially neutrons... If deimos gets both PG and speed/agility, I'd go with a completely different setup, including 3 mag stabs and neutrons. Atm though she moves more like a pregnant cow and my brutix out dmg or out tanks (depending on setup) the deimos by a recognisable margin.
Jazz Bo Caldari Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.09.25 12:03:00 - [896] Signed. As much as I love the Deimos, it's definitely gimped compared to the other tier 2 HACs. It should be +20m/s faster, have a tiny bit more grid, and really, it should have had a fourth med slot instead of the fairly useless Nos slot (useless because Nos are hard to fit and it already has too little grid). Pew pew... ka-boom.... pew pew.... squisssh!
Miklas Laces A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A	Posted - 2006.09.25 12:22:00 - [897] Edited by: Miklas Laces on 25/09/2006 12:24:49 Edited by: Miklas Laces on 25/09/2006 12:24:06 Edited by: Miklas Laces on 25/09/2006 12:23:14 In my opinion, the Deimos with maxed engineering skills should be able to fit the following: HIGH: 5x Ion II, 1x Med Nos MED: 1x Mwd LOW: 1x MAR, 1x 800mm Plate With AWU5, the above items need 710+175+150+173+200 = 1408 PG The Deimos has 1075 PG, so I would increase its grid by 350. Some may say it's too much, okay. Currently the Deimos can fit Blasters + Mwd + Repper, period. Give it at least the chance to fit a Nosferatu OR a Plate OR a Cap Booster, with a 180 powergrid boost. And while you're there, give it more base speed OR more agility OR a smaller sig radius. Bah, I probably just wasted 480 bytes.
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.09.25 13:07:00 - [898] 30m/sec speed increase mass decrease 350 pg increase 40 CPU increase Deimos should be able to fit this: 5x ion II, 1x med nos MWD, web, 20km MAR II, 1x explosive II, 1x EANM II, 2x MFS II, 1x 800mm only this will make it on par with HAC's like the zealot and the vaga
Frools No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.09.25 14:40:00 - [899] Originally by: Miklas Laces Some may say it's too much, okay. Currently the Deimos can fit Blasters + Mwd + Repper, period. Give it at least the chance to fit a Nosferatu OR a Plate OR a Cap Booster, with a 180 powergrid boost. And while you're there, give it more base speed OR more agility OR a smaller sig radius. that is a bit too much, a zealot cant fit 4 heavy pulse + nos + 800mm + mar with an AB you should imo only be able to fit 3 of 4: mwd, nos, plate, mar so if you want to plate you have to drop nos or mar i know i cant put anything bigger than a 200mm plate on my zealot with a mwd without grid mods
Miklas Laces A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A	Posted - 2006.09.25 15:08:00 - [900] Originally by: Frools Originally by: Miklas Laces Currently the Deimos can fit Blasters + Mwd + Repper, period. Give it at least the chance to fit a Nosferatu OR a Plate OR a Cap Booster, with a 180 powergrid boost. that is a bit too much, a zealot cant fit 4 heavy pulse + nos + 800mm + mar with an AB you should imo only be able to fit 3 of 4: mwd, nos, plate, mar so if you want to plate you have to drop nos or mar Exactly what I said, I want to be able to fit 3 of 4: mwd, nos, plate, mar. It would be ok. Btw the Zealot can fit ab, nos, plate and mar with 3x heavy pulse and 1x focused pulse.

Frools No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.09.25 16:17:00 - [901] yep, and with +150 or so grid you could fit electrons + nos + mwd + 800mm + rep seems pretty balanced to me ~+150 grid, fixed speed and agility
CherniyVolk	Posted - 2006.09.25 18:22:00 - [902] Originally by: Frools yep, and with +150 or so grid you could fit electrons + nos + mwd + 800mm + rep seems pretty balanced to me ~+150 grid, fixed speed and agility No. Electrons are not an option. It's supposed to be the ultimate close range threat. At the very least, ION IIs. I argue that the fitting should be as follows. 5xHeavy Neutron Blaster IIs, 1xMedium NOS II 10MN MWD II, Web, Scram MAR II, 2xMFS IIs, and the equivalent of 3xEnergized Adaptives IIs. I personally don't care for the plate, and the plate difference could mark gank vs. tank as with a plate you wouldn't be able to fit 5 Neutrons, but 5 Ions. Zealot isn't supposed to be able to be an overwhelming threat at close ranges. The Deimos is, so I strongly object to using Electron Blasters or basing any prospective "balance" from other HACs on Electron fits. Electrons do not suffice the damage output needs of the Deimos, and yes, I've seen gank setups of the Zealot using the best Medium Pulse lasers and it's very frustrating as it can easily take out a Deimos with a common Ion Blaster setup; at very close range. On top of all the other issues, the fact is, the Deimos really doesn't have sufficient DPS for it's role. Now, maybe if they fix agility/speed and the ability to fit a Medium NOS, these things might make it's marginal DPS more effective, but if all else stays the same, the Deimos needs Neutron Blasters. Or, 10% damage modifier per level of Heavy Assualt Cruisers trained. In general, I think all the damage outputs for all HACs could use a small boost. Becuase T2 BCs are ridiculous damage sponges. They can indefinately tank Empire sentries and take out a HAC... seems a bit extreme to me.
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.26 08:27:00 - [903] Well Ions and Neutrons dont do enough dmg (especially compared to electrons) to make the deimos an up close killer ship. So even if the deimos had more grid to fit a full rack of neutrons with everything else on top, it would only gain around 60 DPS over the electron setup. What a gank ship..
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.09.26 08:29:00 - [904] Originally by: Kunming Well Ions and Neutrons dont do enough dmg (especially compared to electrons) to make the deimos an up close killer ship. So even if the deimos had more grid to fit a full rack of neutrons with everything else on top, it would only gain around 60 DPS over the electron setup. What a gank ship.. 60 dps is the other average crow added to your dps
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.26 09:01:00 - [905] Originally by: Deathbarrage Originally by: Kunming Well Ions and Neutrons dont do enough dmg (especially compared to electrons) to make the deimos an up close killer ship. So even if the deimos had more grid to fit a full rack of neutrons with everything else on top, it would only gain around 60 DPS over the electron setup. What a gank ship.. 60 dps is the other average crow added to your dps With AWU 5: 5x Heavy Neutron Blaster IIs = 954 PG (190.8 per gun) 5x Heavy Ion Blaster IIs = 711 PG (142.2 per gun) 5x Heavy Electron Blaster IIs = 472.5 PG (94.5 per gun) Ions and Neutrons eat up too much PG and CAP (neutrons use 25% more cap than electrons) and dont justify it by vastly amplified dmg. Dont compare a ship that always hits at 15km range with a ship that has a range of 5km and is 3 times slower. The whole concept of deimos is to get in close and once u're there death is pretty much guaranteed for your opponent. The concept of crow is to stay out of range and pepper the shields and hull of the target with missiles, it is meant to have only 60 dps 'cause of balance issues (even with 60 dps crow is a very powerful inty). 60 DPS is nothing for a ship thats meant to gank at "melee" range. The deimos cant perform its designated role as a melee ganker, its too slow, has too low fitting attributes, and even if it had good fitting the largest guns wont be worth fitting anyways!! I dont know what SUXFORD is so afraid of, DPS is long not the determining factor for the outcome of a battle (crow is an excellent example).. deimos: gimme dmg or gimme death!
kharon khala	Posted - 2006.09.26 15:09:00 - [906] so any changes? any news about devs?
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.27 23:02:00 - [907] Originally by: kharon khala so any changes? any news about devs? Guess not, with Kali coming, Tuxford again didnt give a **** about the deimos, how many major patches has it been yet? Still I'd like to have this thread on top to rub it in his face!! I wish.. I really wish he would make me eat my words!
sh4kunetsu	Posted - 2006.09.29 11:12:00 - [908] I was training for the Deimos, however now that I've come across this thread, I'm not so sure anymore. I would like to use a Ishtar tho. Are all of the Deimos pilots who are upset about the current state of the Deimos flying Ishtar's? I wanted to know if it was a good ship to pvp with. thanks in advance for your replies.
Cythera Zohar	Posted - 2006.10.01 11:41:00 - [909] After owning one Deimos I will never own another untill the problems are fixed, Its just so crap! Rather fly a thorax.
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.01 12:34:00 - [910] Originally by: Cythera Zohar After owning one Deimos I will never own another untill the problems are fixed, Its just so crap! Rather fly a thorax. LoL I know what u mean; when u first get into a deimos your first reaction is "Damn, is this supposed to be a HAC", then you train up all relevant skills to lvl 5 and your reaction is "Damn, shouldnt have wasted all those SPs" Try the vigilant, its a quasi-HAC and outperforms the deimos in many situations. Well at least its worth training for and has much better "(price/efficiency) value" than the deimos.

Bazman Caldari The Establishment Establishment	Posted - 2006.10.01 12:36:00 - [911] Originally by: sh4kunetsu I was training for the Deimos, however now that I've come across this thread, I'm not so sure anymore. I would like to use a Ishtar tho. Are all of the Deimos pilots who are upset about the current state of the Deimos flying Ishtar's? I wanted to know if it was a good ship to pvp with. thanks in advance for your replies. I fly the Ishtar over the Deimos in PVP. Quite simply, once you have high drone skills, the Deimos is no competition for an Ishtar. When I had Heavy Drones level 4 and Drone interfacing 4, my Ishtar still left my Deimos eating its dust. Now that I have Drone Int 5 and All T2 Heavy drones, it's just insane to fly a Deimos over an Ishtar ----- Hi TUXFORD! Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks. I am a Gallente Whiner. Minmatar Whining is currently in training.
Horza Otho Minmatar Silver Star Federation	Posted - 2006.10.01 12:54:00 - [912] Originally by: Bazman Originally by: sh4kunetsu I was training for the Deimos, however now that I've come across this thread, I'm not so sure anymore. I would like to use a Ishtar tho. Are all of the Deimos pilots who are upset about the current state of the Deimos flying Ishtar's? I wanted to know if it was a good ship to pvp with. thanks in advance for your replies. I fly the Ishtar over the Deimos in PVP. Quite simply, once you have high drone skills, the Deimos is no competition for an Ishtar. When I had Heavy Drones level 4 and Drone interfacing 4, my Ishtar still left my Deimos eating its dust. Now that I have Drone Int 5 and All T2 Heavy drones, it's just insane to fly a Deimos over an Ishtar I totally agree with Bazman here. Other then price comparisan, the Ishtar is vastly superior to the Deimos. All the Deimos needs is more PG. I'd be happy then.
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.01 14:41:00 - [913] Originally by: Bazman Originally by: sh4kunetsu I was training for the Deimos, however now that I've come across this thread, I'm not so sure anymore. I would like to use a Ishtar tho. Are all of the Deimos pilots who are upset about the current state of the Deimos flying Ishtar's? I wanted to know if it was a good ship to pvp with. thanks in advance for your replies. I fly the Ishtar over the Deimos in PVP. Quite simply, once you have high drone skills, the Deimos is no competition for an Ishtar. When I had Heavy Drones level 4 and Drone interfacing 4, my Ishtar still left my Deimos eating its dust. Now that I have Drone Int 5 and All T2 Heavy drones, it's just insane to fly a Deimos over an Ishtar Well m8, I got over 10mil SP in gunnery and only close to 3mil in drones, you telling me I choose the wrong profession? Now thats the problem cause I'm thinking the same thing Even on paper the drone boats outdamage the gun boats, ishtar with full blasters and drones out dmgs deimos, and by quite a large margin. Blasters need a complete overhaul IMO. Reduce their optimal by 50%, increase falloff by alot, reduce tracking and double the dmg, that would be more realistic for a slow blasma bolt floating in space. Would make flying blaster boats totally up to the skill of the pilot itself, and thats how it should be IMO. ATM the equipment is failing no matter what the pilot does
Dr YD Fallschirmjager	Posted - 2006.10.01 16:04:00 - [914] I'm posting because this thread has [omg] over 30 pages [/omg] and i just feel the need to do so. /spam
Pattern Clarc The Priory	Posted - 2006.10.03 07:41:00 - [915] weekly bump
aquontium Gallente Fourth Circle	Posted - 2006.10.03 11:27:00 - [916] Originally by: CherniyVolk "Deimos" is Greek, and loosely means "terror" or "panic". Since no other HAC pilot panics landing near a Deimos, nor are they terrorized... Perhaps we can request Tuxford rename the ship to "Fiasco"? Probably alot less controversial and effortless than actually fixing the ship. seems like a good idea to me Bazman mentioned getting a drone-HAC instead. I think it's the only way right now. 3 months and a one liner is about right :(. Deimos for the price is a very expensive thorax which is slower than a brutix. And did I mention it was slower than a Brutix?
Miklas Laces A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A	Posted - 2006.10.03 12:26:00 - [917] Edited by: Miklas Laces on 03/10/2006 12:26:02 Way too many of my skill points are focused on Deimos-related skills. Haven't been flying one for months now, waiting for the promised changes that will never come. At times I happen to think "hey it couldn't be that bad, it's a hac", I open quickfit and play with it for a while, then I close it unhappy. Doing this always makes me sad for the next few minutes.
Bazman Caldari The Establishment Establishment	Posted - 2006.10.03 13:59:00 - [918] Originally by: Kunming Originally by: Bazman Originally by: sh4kunetsu I was training for the Deimos, however now that I've come across this thread, I'm not so sure anymore. I would like to use a Ishtar tho. Are all of the Deimos pilots who are upset about the current state of the Deimos flying Ishtar's? I wanted to know if it was a good ship to pvp with. thanks in advance for your replies. I fly the Ishtar over the Deimos in PVP. Quite simply, once you have high drone skills, the Deimos is no competition for an Ishtar. When I had Heavy Drones level 4 and Drone interfacing 4, my Ishtar still left my Deimos eating its dust. Now that I have Drone Int 5 and All T2 Heavy drones, it's just insane to fly a Deimos over an Ishtar Well m8, I got over 10mil SP in gunnery and only close to 3mil in drones, you telling me I choose the wrong profession? Now thats the problem cause I'm thinking the same thing Even on paper the drone boats outdamage the gun boats, ishtar with full blasters and drones out dmgs deimos, and by quite a large margin. Blasters need a complete overhaul IMO. Reduce their optimal by 50%, increase falloff by alot, reduce tracking and double the dmg, that would be more realistic for a slow blasma bolt floating in space. Would make flying blaster boats totally up to the skill of the pilot itself, and thats how it should be IMO. ATM the equipment is failing no matter what the pilot does Yes, you chose the wrong profession, Droney Droney is the way of the future! /me hides my vast collection of T2 Med Blasters ----- Hi TUXFORD! Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks. I am a Gallente Whiner. Minmatar Whining is currently in training.
Dash Ripcock Caldari 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.03 14:12:00 - [919] Edited by: Dash Ripcock on 03/10/2006 14:15:18 I've been away from the game for about two months - and we're still waiting on this one? Come on Tuxford, pull your finger out! P.S. Just checked the date on when I started this thread. Nearly ten months. Ten months, thirty-one pages, nine-hundred and twenty-three posts and a lot of irritated Gallente pilots all in agreement. Are we getting anywhere yet? Ermm, not really.
Xoduse Beasts of Burden Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.10.03 23:10:00 - [920] Bump. Its just not right that I have to use t1 named modules just to get a decent rack of guns on a ship that is supposed to be the ultimate close range threat, yet is 10 m/s slower (base speed) than the thorax. And the extra highslot? Name a cruiser module you can put there with Ions fitted. ---------------------

Hellspawn01 Amarr The Phantom Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.04 00:21:00 - [921] Ok. I¦m gonna post my setup again to show the problems with the ship: The tank (lack of damage) 5x Heavy Ions II 1x Named med nos 1x Named MWD 1x Named/faction Warp scrambler 1x Named/faction Webber 1x Med armor rep II 2x RCU II 1x Named 800mm Plate 1x EANM II 1x Hardener II Tank runs very long and guns do hurt if you have good gunnery skills. The Gank (Faster, dunno about damage) 5x Heavy electrons II 1x Named med nos 1x Named MWD 1x Named/faction Warp scrambler 1x Named/faction Webber 1x Med armor rep II 1x Named nanofiber 2x Mag stabs II 1x EANM II 1x Hardener II Consider this as a bump. Ship lovers click here
Sadist Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.10.04 06:16:00 - [922] Originally by: Deathbarrage 30m/sec speed increase mass decrease 350 pg increase 40 CPU increase Deimos should be able to fit this: 5x ion II, 1x med nos MWD, web, 20km MAR II, 1x explosive II, 1x EANM II, 2x MFS II, 1x 800mm only this will make it on par with HAC's like the zealot and the vaga /Signed òòòòòòòòòòòò VIP member of the [23] Quote: - Numbers alone do not win a battle - No, but I bet they help.
Gary Goat Aliastra	Posted - 2006.10.04 14:30:00 - [923] Havent visited Eve-o for a while so i thought i'd come here and start a new post on the deimos as i assumed this one would have been dead and gone only to find it on the second page Come on devs, sort it out already Devs please read
CherniyVolk	Posted - 2006.10.04 22:23:00 - [924] Originally by: Xoduse Bump. Its just not right that I have to use t1 named modules just to get a decent rack of guns on a ship that is supposed to be the ultimate close range threat, yet is 10 m/s slower (base speed) than the thorax. And the extra highslot? Name a cruiser module you can put there with Ions fitted. I think we can put a Tractor Beam module up there. Because the ship is so slow, if it manages to survive the engagement a Tractor Beam is useful for collecting loot!
Audrea Momentum.	Posted - 2006.10.05 02:05:00 - [925] Originally by: Kunming Originally by: Bazman Originally by: sh4kunetsu I was training for the Deimos, however now that I've come across this thread, I'm not so sure anymore. I would like to use a Ishtar tho. Are all of the Deimos pilots who are upset about the current state of the Deimos flying Ishtar's? I wanted to know if it was a good ship to pvp with. thanks in advance for your replies. I fly the Ishtar over the Deimos in PVP. Quite simply, once you have high drone skills, the Deimos is no competition for an Ishtar. When I had Heavy Drones level 4 and Drone interfacing 4, my Ishtar still left my Deimos eating its dust. Now that I have Drone Int 5 and All T2 Heavy drones, it's just insane to fly a Deimos over an Ishtar Well m8, I got over 10mil SP in gunnery and only close to 3mil in drones, you telling me I choose the wrong profession? Now thats the problem cause I'm thinking the same thing Even on paper the drone boats outdamage the gun boats, ishtar with full blasters and drones out dmgs deimos, and by quite a large margin. Blasters need a complete overhaul IMO. Reduce their optimal by 50%, increase falloff by alot, reduce tracking and double the dmg, that would be more realistic for a slow blasma bolt floating in space. Would make flying blaster boats totally up to the skill of the pilot itself, and thats how it should be IMO. ATM the equipment is failing no matter what the pilot does REducing optimal by 50% is very bad idea! Not only minimal orbit possible is 500meters, but the ship, and other gallente blaster boats are not agile enough atm to even hold 500meters orbit! It would be impossible to get in optimal, unless you bump it, and then its out of optimal again ------------------ Save Deimos! All posts are my personal opinions.
Frater Perdurabo The Ancient Illuminated Seers of Bavaria	Posted - 2006.10.05 03:24:00 - [926] I saw Oveur in local the other day (on a different char to this) first thing i said was 'Hi oveur please fix the deimos'... funny how a large quantity of fellow pod pilots chimed in to agree with me on this
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.05 07:10:00 - [927] Originally by: Sadist Originally by: Deathbarrage 30m/sec speed increase mass decrease 350 pg increase 40 CPU increase Deimos should be able to fit this: 5x ion II, 1x med nos MWD, web, 20km MAR II, 1x explosive II, 1x EANM II, 2x MFS II, 1x 800mm only this will make it on par with HAC's like the zealot and the vaga /Signed Common ppl lets not forget about the MWD penalty reduction bonus, I rather have a mass reduction bonus ala hyperion..
Dragy	Posted - 2006.10.05 08:14:00 - [928] Originally by: Suvetar I suspect the changes in the new patch are going to vastly improve the Diemos :) I'd like to ask 1 question. What Suvetar had in mind ?
Damis Zohar Pirates of Destruction Union	Posted - 2006.10.05 10:41:00 - [929] Still not fixed huh ? Should I buy another in case it ever is fixed or would I be wasting my isk?
Jazz Bo Caldari Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.10.05 11:48:00 - [930] Originally by: Damis Zohar Still not fixed huh ? Should I buy another in case it ever is fixed or would I be wasting my isk? I just bought one. Because.... erm... it looks nice and... umm... it's good for killing Serpentis rats. Although not as good as an Ishtar. Really, please fix the damn thing. Shame to see something so pretty go to waste. Quote: Pew pew... ka-boom.... pew pew... squishhh

Faruda	Posted - 2006.10.05 13:32:00 - [931] Please, NO! Gallentes have most powerful set of ships and you are going give him UberHAC? Better boost poor Minmas Hint: Dear deimos pilots, you always may use Coprocessor and/or RCU/PDS to fit everything you need.
Damis Zohar Pirates of Destruction Union	Posted - 2006.10.05 13:44:00 - [932] Originally by: Faruda Please, NO! Gallentes have most powerful set of ships and you are going give him UberHAC? Better boost poor Minmas Hint: Dear deimos pilots, you always may use Coprocessor and/or RCU/PDS to fit everything you need. We're not asking for an uber HAC just a useable one.
epic113 Gallente Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2006.10.05 13:53:00 - [933] Originally by: Faruda Please, NO! Gallentes have most powerful set of ships and you are going give him UberHAC? Better boost poor Minmas Hint: Dear deimos pilots, you always may use Coprocessor and/or RCU/PDS to fit everything you need. thats a joke right? please tell me another hac thats only slightly better(and in some ways worse) than its t1 counterpart
XZeroXCompanyX	Posted - 2006.10.05 15:03:00 - [934] /bump =\ poor boat needs our love
Tasty Burger	Posted - 2006.10.05 15:31:00 - [935] Originally by: epic113 Originally by: Faruda Please, NO! Gallentes have most powerful set of ships and you are going give him UberHAC? Better boost poor Minmas Hint: Dear deimos pilots, you always may use Coprocessor and/or RCU/PDS to fit everything you need. thats a joke right? please tell me another hac thats only slightly better(and in some ways worse) than its t1 counterpart muninn. muninn is even worse than the deimos since it does less damage, tanks less, and even has less slots.
Faruda	Posted - 2006.10.05 17:45:00 - [936] Originally by: epic113 thats a joke right? Nope Originally by: epic113 please tell me another hac thats only slightly better(and in some ways worse) than its t1 counterpart Deimos is worse than Thorax? I doubt. Muninn - Rupture. Muninn is marginally better, better distance better tracking + one turret high slot. Eagle is better than Moa. It is fact. But only because Moa is crap. Deimos is marginally worse of Eagle, but only marginally. Look on the whole picture, please.(I agree that Deimos may be slightly better). Deimos has enormous structure(add damage control to see difference) and 50 m3 drone bay. It is more than enough to be just in the middle.
Dragy	Posted - 2006.10.05 18:00:00 - [937] Try fitting a Deimos and you shall see. Try to defeat a skilled bc pilot. It's not possible. Deimos can't fit anything reasonable and is so cap dependable that enemy with 2-3 NOS will kill your cap way to fast. Big hull is nothing while having fitting problems. You'll just die slower.
CherniyVolk	Posted - 2006.10.05 18:40:00 - [938] Originally by: Faruda Deimos is worse than Thorax? I doubt. Muninn - Rupture. Muninn is marginally better, better distance better tracking + one turret high slot. Eagle is better than Moa. It is fact. But only because Moa is crap. Deimos is marginally worse of Eagle, but only marginally. Look on the whole picture, please.(I agree that Deimos may be slightly better). Deimos has enormous structure(add damage control to see difference) and 50 m3 drone bay. It is more than enough to be just in the middle. I'm not saying that other HACs are running around 100% happy. For instance, I think the Sacrilege could use some love. But, I won't go into detail on why I think that here. This is the thread for Deimos improvement! The Deimos is supposed to be a threat at close ranges. But it's not. Partly, becuase it can't dictate range. It also can't fit a good setup without frigate modules. Infact, even with cruiser modules you have to either go faction or named T1. I have AWU lvl 4, and I can't fit a T2 MWD, I have to use a Y-T8 MWD. Or, I use a faction Armor Rep and maybe have the PG for a T2 MWD, or fit both faction mwd and mar.... Seriously, it's not fair that I'm required, for a base fit that compliments the roles intended, to fit Named modules or Faction/Officer modules on my ship.
Faruda	Posted - 2006.10.05 18:51:00 - [939] Ok, ok, ok. Agree that deimos need some love(I knew it). But look from another point of view. Sacrilege need some love, Eagle need some love, Muninn need some love. Deimos is comparable with this HACs. So if modify Deimos we have to modify all HACs around.
Dragy	Posted - 2006.10.05 18:59:00 - [940] And here's where you're wrong. Deimos has to chances with those hacs. Eagle has a good shield tank while it's nossing and dealing nice dmg, sac is nossing and tanking so it'll kill Deimos too. Only with Muninn it's a close fight. Of course taking into consideration that the pilots are skilled.

Cythera Zohar	Posted - 2006.10.05 19:06:00 - [941] Originally by: Faruda Originally by: epic113 thats a joke right? Nope Originally by: epic113 please tell me another hac thats only slightly better(and in some ways worse) than its t1 counterpart Deimos is worse than Thorax? I doubt. Muninn - Rupture. Muninn is marginally better, better distance better tracking + one turret high slot. Eagle is better than Moa. It is fact. But only because Moa is crap. Deimos is marginally worse of Eagle, but only marginally. Look on the whole picture, please.(I agree that Deimos may be slightly better). Deimos has enormous structure(add damage control to see difference) and 50 m3 drone bay. It is more than enough to be just in the middle. Deimos 'IS' worse than a Thorax trust me! Ive PVPed in a thorax with success cant say the same for my Deimos
CherniyVolk	Posted - 2006.10.05 19:19:00 - [942] Originally by: Faruda Ok, ok, ok. Agree that deimos need some love(I knew it). But look from another point of view. Sacrilege need some love, Eagle need some love, Muninn need some love. Deimos is comparable with this HACs. So if modify Deimos we have to modify all HACs around. Well, if you create a general thread arguing that all HACs need some attention be certain I'll post my concerns regarding the Deimos there too. Due to the lack of structure and focus in such a thread, I doubt it'll ever be better than 90% trolling.
Cuckoo	Posted - 2006.10.05 21:20:00 - [943] why the hell are the devs being so ignorant.. its frustrating
sarabando Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.10.05 21:29:00 - [944] if its so bad then why does it still cost 200million? Originally by: Nyxus Then we will fly to Tatooine straight away and obliterate Testy and the whole Scrapheap from orbit. Rebellion "issue" solved. Nyxus
Mr Xzomo Carebear Industries	Posted - 2006.10.06 09:18:00 - [945] Signed I have maxed skills (that affect powergriding) and can't even fitt 5 200mm railguns II.
Frater Perdurabo The Ancient Illuminated Seers of Bavaria	Posted - 2006.10.06 09:26:00 - [946] Originally by: Faruda Ok, ok, ok. Agree that deimos need some love(I knew it). But look from another point of view. Sacrilege need some love, Eagle need some love, Muninn need some love. Deimos is comparable with this HACs. So if modify Deimos we have to modify all HACs around. Actually you've hit on a very good point here, why is it the hacs based on the 'best' t1 cruiser equivalent are nowhere near as good as the ones based on the 2nd best t1 cruiser (well except caracals better than moa, but oh well ignore that :P) ...and I know why deimos are 200mil, but i better not say anything he'd get annoyed with me (only joking, honest ) ----------------------------------- Please note that my response to this thread is probably a result of boredom, and its very likely that i dont care, but am posting in an attempt to wind someone up
Miklas Laces A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A	Posted - 2006.10.06 10:15:00 - [947] Edited by: Miklas Laces on 06/10/2006 10:16:32 Originally by: sarabando if its so bad then why does it still cost 200million? coz it's sexy (and very good at belt ratting) edit: not sure about the 200m too, last time I checked was more like 165m but I may be wrong, don't bother to check
Cythera Zohar	Posted - 2006.10.06 11:51:00 - [948] Originally by: Miklas Laces Edited by: Miklas Laces on 06/10/2006 10:16:32 Originally by: sarabando if its so bad then why does it still cost 200million? coz it's sexy (and very good at belt ratting) edit: not sure about the 200m too, last time I checked was more like 165m but I may be wrong, don't bother to check 175 mill is the best price ive seen in a while. And as to why it costs that much is probably because ppl dont read this thread.
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.10.06 11:58:00 - [949] Edited by: welsh wizard on 06/10/2006 11:58:59 But then every single Gallente ship will be good and everyone else will be stuck with their joke ships. :( Theres more important ships in need of a boost tbh. edit: Guess that doesn't mean the Diemos shouldn't be boosted though. Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
Xasz Caldari Unemployment Office	Posted - 2006.10.06 12:27:00 - [950] Originally by: sarabando if its so bad then why does it still cost 200million? Quite obviously, someone hasn't read ANY of this thread, save maybe this page. The Deimos is highly overrated in game, due to it's double damage bonuses; in actuality, it's one of the lower HACs. Unemployment Office [NOJOB], now firing. Contact Jaguar Warrior for details.

Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.06 12:36:00 - [951] Originally by: Faruda Please, NO! Gallentes have most powerful set of ships and you are going give him UberHAC? Better boost poor Minmas Hint: Dear deimos pilots, you always may use Coprocessor and/or RCU/PDS to fit everything you need. First: Read the thread, yes whole 32 pages! Second: Comment on topic. If you do it in any other order, you may as well **** off!
CherniyVolk	Posted - 2006.10.06 19:57:00 - [952] Originally by: Kunming First: Read the thread, yes whole 32 pages! Second: Comment on topic. If you do it in any other order, you may as well **** off! QFT! Seriously! If you want to advocate boosting some other HAC, then do so in an appropriate fashion so Tuxford or whoever may easily seperate and address the issues.
Damis Zohar Pirates of Destruction Union	Posted - 2006.10.08 05:06:00 - [953] Edited by: Damis Zohar on 08/10/2006 05:07:15 Originally by: Tasty Burger Originally by: epic113 Originally by: Faruda Please, NO! Gallentes have most powerful set of ships and you are going give him UberHAC? Better boost poor Minmas Hint: Dear deimos pilots, you always may use Coprocessor and/or RCU/PDS to fit everything you need. thats a joke right? please tell me another hac thats only slightly better(and in some ways worse) than its t1 counterpart muninn. muninn is even worse than the deimos since it does less damage, tanks less, and even has less slots. Yeah the Deimos has an extra slot! real nice, now if we can just fit something in that slot!!!!!!! Start a muninn thread if ya dont like it and leave the deimos thread to those who know what they are talking about.
Tommy Vercetti Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.10.08 05:36:00 - [954] Originally by: Damis Zohar leave the deimos thread to those who know what they are talking about. ROFL. Yes don't compare it to other HACS in the game, just boost a few attributes here and there then worry about how well it will go against the competition I see a 86 page deimos thread coming Originally by: Murukan It's like really you ***** , it also out damages my tempest so maybe i shouldn't saunter up to the thron at 2km like i'm ready to * it's **.
Sadist Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.10.08 07:00:00 - [955] Originally by: Faruda Ok, ok, ok. Agree that deimos need some love(I knew it). But look from another point of view. Sacrilege need some love, Eagle need some love, Muninn need some love. Deimos is comparable with this HACs. So if modify Deimos we have to modify all HACs around. Sacriledge and Eagle don't need love. They both have their niches - a sniping eagle with a passive tank is nearly impenetrable to small ships and can be used as bait, and a nos/capbooster/dual rep sac can eventually outlast any cruiser-sized ship and some BS. Deimos, however is vulnerable to any kind of counter to it - NOS, EW, pure damage, web - you name it, it all renders the ship as helpless as a beer can, faster than you can say "i gotta warp out". òòòòòòòòòòòò VIP member of the [23] Quote: - Numbers alone do not win a battle - No, but I bet they help.
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.08 11:42:00 - [956] Originally by: Sadist Originally by: Faruda Ok, ok, ok. Agree that deimos need some love(I knew it). But look from another point of view. Sacrilege need some love, Eagle need some love, Muninn need some love. Deimos is comparable with this HACs. So if modify Deimos we have to modify all HACs around. Sacriledge and Eagle don't need love. They both have their niches - a sniping eagle with a passive tank is nearly impenetrable to small ships and can be used as bait, and a nos/capbooster/dual rep sac can eventually outlast any cruiser-sized ship and some BS. Deimos, however is vulnerable to any kind of counter to it - NOS, EW, pure damage, web - you name it, it all renders the ship as helpless as a beer can, faster than you can say "i gotta warp out". Deimos, Sacrilege, and Eagle all have their unique roles and niches. Yes, even the Deimos inspite of it's role being completely taken over by the Astarte. They all need love. The difference is that Eagle and Sacrilege are OFF TOPIC in this thread, and as such discussing how THEY need love is not really something that we need to do, no? Faruda: No, it does not logically follow that modification of one ship means all ships must be modified (at the same time). It also does not logically follow that modifying or not modifying a ship means other ships will/won't be modified. Make a new thread about the ships that needs to be modified, argument it, and post proofs there. This is about the Deimos - for or against it's modification is argumented here, and no other ship. - Three years old
Hellspawn01 Amarr The Phantom Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.08 13:15:00 - [957] I have a question for those that used to fly a deimos: How many SP do you have in the support gunnery skills and in hybrids? Ship lovers click here
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.08 14:51:00 - [958] Originally by: Hellspawn01 I have a question for those that used to fly a deimos: How many SP do you have in the support gunnery skills and in hybrids? Too much ALL related skills are lvl 5 (except some drone skills)...
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.08 14:58:00 - [959] Originally by: Hellspawn01 I have a question for those that used to fly a deimos: How many SP do you have in the support gunnery skills and in hybrids? 9 million gunnery and it gives me beam, railgun and blaster specializations, what's it to ya? To recap, the Deimos is one, or a combination, of... : * Too difficult to fit beyond lowest tier turrets * Too slow * Not agile enough - Three years old
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.08 15:03:00 - [960] Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Hellspawn01 I have a question for those that used to fly a deimos: How many SP do you have in the support gunnery skills and in hybrids? 9 million gunnery and it gives me beam, railgun and blaster specializations, what's it to ya? To recap, the Deimos is one, or a combination, of... : * Too difficult to fit beyond lowest tier turrets * Too slow * Not agile enough + Crap Bonus which is not really a bonus (MWD penalty bonus sux arse)

Skrypt Gallente Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.08 19:59:00 - [961] Has there been any talk about Deimos changes in Kali? ___________ Auction: Corpum Gear
ThaMa Gebir Gallente Raddick Explorations Myriad Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.08 20:14:00 - [962] Originally by: Kunming Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Hellspawn01 I have a question for those that used to fly a deimos: How many SP do you have in the support gunnery skills and in hybrids? 9 million gunnery and it gives me beam, railgun and blaster specializations, what's it to ya? To recap, the Deimos is one, or a combination, of... : * Too difficult to fit beyond lowest tier turrets * Too slow * Not agile enough + Crap Bonus which is not really a bonus (MWD penalty bonus sux arse) QFT. Dammit, I just wish the damn ship could be used as it should be. There will be no survivors now that i'm around - Xorus pwnt - Immy
ThaMa Gebir Gallente Raddick Explorations Myriad Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.08 20:14:00 - [963] Originally by: Skrypt Has there been any talk about Deimos changes in Kali? None that I have heard of yet. Here is to hopelessly waiting........... There will be no survivors now that i'm around - Xorus pwnt - Immy
Fenderson Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.10.08 20:35:00 - [964] Originally by: Ithildin ...the Deimos is one, or a combination, of... : * Too difficult to fit beyond lowest tier turrets * Too slow * Not agile enough Quote: Here is to hopelessly waiting........... Got my deimos about a month ago. I fly it alot. I generally like it, but compared to other HACs i must say i agree. My cheif complaint is the agility and speed. Why would an MWD boat be so slow and piggish? Sure it does fantastic damage, but every time i approach a target with MWD on, i end up overshooting by 7km and not really hitting well until the ship slows down, turns around, and gets back in orbit range and optimal for void ammo... And why would it be so much slower than its t1 counterpart? Im sure this has all been said but i want some deimos love too pleeeeeeeeze! real men structure tank
Lo3d3R Implant Liberation Front Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.08 22:38:00 - [965] Edited by: Lo3d3R on 08/10/2006 22:38:59 Implant Liberation Front supports this thread, the deimos needs allot of love !!! its sad to see a ship with a mwd to be so lazy and heavy and blehhhhh, make it a light rabbit ! ___________________ Eating Chopped Bear:
Cuckoo	Posted - 2006.10.09 00:17:00 - [966] bump
Balian Bowmaker	Posted - 2006.10.09 02:40:00 - [967] Make the Deimos look like a HAC compared to the rax in the powergrid, agility, and speed dept please...
Kulmid Dummies	Posted - 2006.10.09 02:45:00 - [968] I have flown a Deimos for quite some time and am for the most part happy with it in comparison to other races as far as HACs go, that is after I sold it and bought a Ishtar but I just want to point out that every race is in the same situation Sacrelidge - just utter crap Munnin - can't figure out how to tank, and can.. uhh... inta-pop frigs? like we don't have enough ships that can do that Deimos - we all know the issues with the Deimos and they don't need to be mentioned I know I have left out Caldari and that is because we all know they really have only 1 PvP oriented HAC, the other just lets you sleep through missions since it lacks the real ability to tank and tackle, which, as the Deimos has been made useless by the Astarte, the Cerberus has been made useless by the new Caldari Command Ship (the exact one I'm not sure) so in conclusion I think the Deimos is balanced in comparison to other races as far has HACs go, we all have 1 HAC that is goos and one that is either **** poor, does a job that can be done better in another ship, or is non PvP
Troll969	Posted - 2006.10.09 09:30:00 - [969] Edited by: Troll969 on 09/10/2006 09:31:23 fix it please
Damis Zohar Pirates of Destruction Union	Posted - 2006.10.09 09:31:00 - [970] Originally by: Kulmid I have flown a Deimos for quite some time and am for the most part happy with it in comparison to other races as far as HACs go, that is after I sold it and bought a Ishtar but I just want to point out that every race is in the same situation Sacrelidge - just utter crap Munnin - can't figure out how to tank, and can.. uhh... inta-pop frigs? like we don't have enough ships that can do that Deimos - we all know the issues with the Deimos and they don't need to be mentioned I know I have left out Caldari and that is because we all know they really have only 1 PvP oriented HAC, the other just lets you sleep through missions since it lacks the real ability to tank and tackle, which, as the Deimos has been made useless by the Astarte, the Cerberus has been made useless by the new Caldari Command Ship (the exact one I'm not sure) so in conclusion I think the Deimos is balanced in comparison to other races as far has HACs go, we all have 1 HAC that is goos and one that is either **** poor, does a job that can be done better in another ship, or is non PvP Mind sharing your fitting with us all? Im curious as weather you have a new fitting or you have just settled.

Iynara Maeral Caldari JUDGE DREAD Inc. Forces of Freedom	Posted - 2006.10.09 11:26:00 - [971] Signed, hard ______________
Promon Delnai Scorn. Myriad Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.09 20:40:00 - [972] WTB: more grid on my deimos SIGNED ==================
Retnik THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.10 05:07:00 - [973] /signed It never made sense to me how a ship that needs to get so close can handle so poorly. And a ship that boasts so much damage potential can barely fit a full rack of Ions. Fix the deimos please.
Izrahar	Posted - 2006.10.10 06:15:00 - [974] What an absolutely GORGEOUS ship... I came online to look for fittings and such for this thing, but instead I see this... I shed a tear. However, you folks flying it -- cruise around the 1.0 systems, and you'll instantly be awesome and cool for flying such a great-looking ship. :)
Lucus Ranger Gallente The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.10.10 06:54:00 - [975] *Lucus Ranger hugs Deimos... Please Tuxford make it the ship it was always meant to be
XGS Crimson	Posted - 2006.10.10 08:49:00 - [976] deimos is just about the coolest ship in the game!... and all it wants is less mass and about 20mps more speed!
Lucus Ranger Gallente The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.10.10 08:54:00 - [977] Originally by: XGS Crimson deimos is just about the coolest ship in the game!... and all it wants is less mass and about 20mps more speed! Yes, but I think it could also do with a slight pg boost, so it can fit 5x Ion + Med Nos + Med Slots and a Tank...
Ju Blimb	Posted - 2006.10.10 09:05:00 - [978] Gah, the Amarr thread is winning, it reached page 88. Bump for the Deimos !!
XGS Crimson	Posted - 2006.10.10 09:32:00 - [979] Edited by: XGS Crimson on 10/10/2006 09:34:14 Originally by: Lucus Ranger Originally by: XGS Crimson deimos is just about the coolest ship in the game!... and all it wants is less mass and about 20mps more speed! Yes, but I think it could also do with a slight pg boost, so it can fit 5x Ion + Med Nos + Med Slots and a Tank... i dont agree the pg is fine to me this ship isnt designed to use all those things. 5x electon II 1x med nos 1x mwd 1x webber 1x scrammer 1x med repper II 2x damage mod 3x resistance possibly 2 reppers... with this setup and the skills you will dish out a shot every 2 seconds per gun doing about 80-100 damage per shot +5 med drones... is a total of (dont forget gallente weapons get more criticals than any other) about 2000 damage in 10 seconds against decent resists
Damis Zohar Pirates of Destruction Union Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.10 09:38:00 - [980] The Deimos deserves at least Ion's

Audrea Momentum.	Posted - 2006.10.10 09:38:00 - [981] Originally by: XGS Crimson Edited by: XGS Crimson on 10/10/2006 09:34:14 Originally by: Lucus Ranger Originally by: XGS Crimson deimos is just about the coolest ship in the game!... and all it wants is less mass and about 20mps more speed! Yes, but I think it could also do with a slight pg boost, so it can fit 5x Ion + Med Nos + Med Slots and a Tank... i dont agree the pg is fine to me this ship isnt designed to use all those things. 5x electon II 1x med nos 1x mwd 1x webber 1x scrammer 1x med repper II 2x damage mod 3x resistance possibly 2 reppers... with this setup and the skills you will dish out a shot every 2 seconds per gun doing about 80-100 damage per shot +5 med drones... is a total of (dont forget gallente weapons get more criticals than any other) about 2000 damage in 10 seconds against decent resists What the h3ll are you talking about? This ship couldnt outlast npcing RAven, firing torps to which I had 90+ resistance, and had no nos on me, and started on 15km. That was with Ions. Now imagine what it would be like against even one nos, and electrons instead ------------------ Save Deimos!
XGS Crimson	Posted - 2006.10.10 09:43:00 - [982] Originally by: Audrea Originally by: XGS Crimson Edited by: XGS Crimson on 10/10/2006 09:34:14 Originally by: Lucus Ranger Originally by: XGS Crimson deimos is just about the coolest ship in the game!... and all it wants is less mass and about 20mps more speed! Yes, but I think it could also do with a slight pg boost, so it can fit 5x Ion + Med Nos + Med Slots and a Tank... i dont agree the pg is fine to me this ship isnt designed to use all those things. 5x electon II 1x med nos 1x mwd 1x webber 1x scrammer 1x med repper II 2x damage mod 3x resistance possibly 2 reppers... with this setup and the skills you will dish out a shot every 2 seconds per gun doing about 80-100 damage per shot +5 med drones... is a total of (dont forget gallente weapons get more criticals than any other) about 2000 damage in 10 seconds against decent resists What the h3ll are you talking about? This ship couldnt outlast npcing RAven, firing torps to which I had 90+ resistance, and had no nos on me, and started on 15km. That was with Ions. Now imagine what it would be like against even one nos, and electrons instead lol raven = bs... deimos = cruiser (weapon size) electrons only loose range not damage... in some cases they do more damage.
XGS Crimson	Posted - 2006.10.10 09:44:00 - [983] Edited by: XGS Crimson on 10/10/2006 09:44:16 and npcing raven is just about the hardest ship to kill... battleship sorry
Miklas Laces A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A	Posted - 2006.10.10 11:06:00 - [984] Originally by: XGS Crimson electrons only loose range not damage... in some cases they do more damage. The range difference (~3km) is huge for a blaster-boat. On paper the damage increase from Electrons to Ions is ~10%, but I found that often it is more, because of the increased range. Test it yourself, fly a Deimos with 2 electrons and 2 ions, then have some real fights, then go back to station and analyze the combat logs.
Miklas Laces A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A	Posted - 2006.10.10 11:15:00 - [985] Originally by: XGS Crimson i dont agree the pg is fine to me this ship isnt designed to use all those things. 5x electon II 1x med nos 1x mwd 1x webber 1x scrammer 1x med repper II 2x damage mod 3x resistance With Electrons, I should be able to fit a Plate. Your setup shows that even a sub-par fitting is possible only using the worst guns.
Azhu	Posted - 2006.10.10 11:23:00 - [986] it was a good ship .. now its kinda "okay" But there is far more better ships then "die-most"
Xoduse Beasts of Burden Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.10.10 18:10:00 - [987] Originally by: Ju Blimb Gah, the Amarr thread is winning, it reached page 88. Bump for the Deimos !! Thats because they're much better whiners than us. Just please fix our ship, deimos has been broken forever. ---------------------
Fenderson Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.10.10 20:26:00 - [988] i was just thinking about this and getting upset so i thought i'd whine a little Lets look at vagabond vs deimos. Sure its not a fair comparison, the vaga is way overpowered. But the ships are designed to fill pretty much the same role in theory, so in some ways it is valid. Comparing possible fittings with 1 RCU II: Vagabond: 5 x 220mm ac med nos LARGE extender LARGE shield booster MWD II Scram nanos/gyros/WCS in whatever combination desired Deimos: 5 x ions med nos mwd,scram, web or cap charger MED rep 3x harders 1 mag stab So to recap, using 1 RCU II and the same high slot configuration, on the vaga you can fit a large rep and extender, whereas the deimos can only fit a med rep and some hardeners, making the survivability of the vaga waaaaay longer. Plate? forget about it. And thats not even factoring in speed/manueverability in any way. grrrrrr.... real men structure tank
Plaetean Mortis Manus	Posted - 2006.10.10 21:37:00 - [989] /signed. More grid plz.
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.11 07:56:00 - [990] Pimp it up TUX, common

Severa Crest Nomina Sacra Sapientia Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.11 11:46:00 - [991] Edited by: Severa Crest on 11/10/2006 11:45:55 Originally by: Fenderson i was just thinking about this and getting upset so i thought i'd whine a little Lets look at vagabond vs deimos. Sure its not a fair comparison, the vaga is way overpowered. But the ships are designed to fill pretty much the same role in theory, so in some ways it is valid. Comparing possible fittings with 1 RCU II: Vagabond: 5 x 220mm ac med nos LARGE extender LARGE shield booster MWD II Scram nanos/gyros/WCS in whatever combination desired Deimos: 5 x ions med nos mwd,scram, web or cap charger MED rep 3x harders 1 mag stab So to recap, using 1 RCU II and the same high slot configuration, on the vaga you can fit a large rep and extender, whereas the deimos can only fit a med rep and some hardeners, making the survivability of the vaga waaaaay longer. Plate? forget about it. And thats not even factoring in speed/manueverability in any way. grrrrrr.... WTF is a vaga gonna do with a large shield boost?
Miklas Laces A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A	Posted - 2006.10.11 14:40:00 - [992] Edited by: Miklas Laces on 11/10/2006 14:40:38 omg it's happening Quote: # Powergrid of Sacrilege, Deimos and Muninn increased to 1100MW, 950MW and 1100MW respectively # CPU of Sacrilege and Deimos increased to 350tf for both ships Linkage
GO MaZ No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.11 14:42:00 - [993] Originally by: Miklas Laces Edited by: Miklas Laces on 11/10/2006 14:40:38 omg it's happening Quote: # Powergrid of Sacrilege, Deimos and Muninn increased to 1100MW, 950MW and 1100MW respectively # CPU of Sacrilege and Deimos increased to 350tf for both ships Linkage If tux doesn't implement this at downtime tomorrow I'm going to cry Yes, I'm an impatient bastard Cheers tux Member of the Ex-KSC retard-spellers club.
Jorund Bork Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.10.11 14:46:00 - [994] \o/ yay for the changes (but it will still move like a pregnant cow..... Tux, PLEASE look at the agility/speed issue while you are on the case. Think about the ships role..)
Miklas Laces A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A	Posted - 2006.10.11 14:51:00 - [995] Originally by: GO MaZ If tux doesn't implement this at downtime tomorrow I'm going to cry Kali 1
GO MaZ No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.11 14:59:00 - [996] Originally by: Miklas Laces Originally by: GO MaZ If tux doesn't implement this at downtime tomorrow I'm going to cry Kali 1 Proceeding to cry Member of the Ex-KSC retard-spellers club.
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.10.11 16:05:00 - [997] will 950MW fix our problem? ... and when is kali 1 gonna be released?
bldyannoyed Standard Operations Building Services Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.11 16:13:00 - [998] Its an extra 90 grid before skils, so cal it an extra 110 with eng 5. Thats most of a MAR2 or medium NOS, so if u cant do something with that there is something wrong with you. It's still gonna handle like a slug tho.
Shirazz	Posted - 2006.10.11 16:19:00 - [999] dont gal have enough good ships....? Your other HAC is leet, why do they both have to be?
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.10.11 16:25:00 - [1000] Originally by: Shirazz dont gal have enough good ships....? Your other HAC is leet, why do they both have to be? cuz the deimos sux more then the sac

Fenderson Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.10.11 17:04:00 - [1001] Originally by: Severa Crest WTF is a vaga gonna do with a large shield boost? Lots of vaga pilots fit them, especially faction ones. You cap out faster but tank better while you can run it. The point is you have the spare fittings on a vaga to do it. And the extender is more of the major issue anyway... real men structure tank
Dragy	Posted - 2006.10.11 17:27:00 - [1002] Tux, taking into consideration fact that you're replying more often then normally, i'd like you to write anything here, in the deimos thread. This is really important for us.

Tuxford	Posted - 2006.10.11 17:28:00 - [1003] anything _______________

Dragy	Posted - 2006.10.11 17:33:00 - [1004] Originally by: Tuxford anything hehe to be exact : Are you fixing deimos ? if yes, what is going to be boosted ?

Tuxford	Posted - 2006.10.11 17:34:00 - [1005] Originally by: Dragy Originally by: Tuxford anything hehe to be exact : Are you fixing deimos ? if yes, what is going to be boosted ? grid and cpu _______________

GenYslacker	Posted - 2006.10.11 17:40:00 - [1006] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Dragy Originally by: Tuxford anything hehe to be exact : Are you fixing deimos ? if yes, what is going to be boosted ? grid and cpu Horrah for tux!
Dragy	Posted - 2006.10.11 17:41:00 - [1007] thanks
Dragy	Posted - 2006.10.11 17:44:00 - [1008] and just 1 last thing, don't you think that mass/agility/speed should also change ?
Dragy	Posted - 2006.10.11 18:20:00 - [1009] silence ... as i thought ...
Kel Dario Amarr Vortex. Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.11 19:38:00 - [1010] Don't worry - It probably get on his next to do list sometime the end of next year ^^

Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.11 19:49:00 - [1011] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Dragy Originally by: Tuxford anything hehe to be exact : Are you fixing deimos ? if yes, what is going to be boosted ? grid and cpu The ship deserves to be as fast as a thorax at least dont you think?
Fenderson Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.10.11 20:36:00 - [1012] Originally by: Kunming Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Dragy Originally by: Tuxford anything hehe to be exact : Are you fixing deimos ? if yes, what is going to be boosted ? grid and cpu The ship deserves to be as fast as a thorax at least dont you think? agreed but ill take what i can get HOORAY for more grid/cpu! real men structure tank
Skrypt Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.15 16:54:00 - [1013] Originally by: Kunming Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Dragy Originally by: Tuxford anything hehe to be exact : Are you fixing deimos ? if yes, what is going to be boosted ? grid and cpu The ship deserves to be as fast as a thorax at least dont you think? Seriously. Or at least entertain us and explain why not. ___________ Auction: Corpum Gear
Dash Ripcock Caldari 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.16 15:10:00 - [1014] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Dragy Originally by: Tuxford anything hehe to be exact : Are you fixing deimos ? if yes, what is going to be boosted ? grid and cpu Hurrah! We're getting there! Now all we need is the same base speed of the Thorax
Xpar	Posted - 2006.10.22 22:36:00 - [1015] To keep in line with the Tuxford's philosophy of the new Tier 3 Gallente BS, Hyperion, that is to lower the mass of blasterboats, I kind of feel Deimos should get a mass reduction as well.
Jazz Bo Caldari Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2006.10.22 22:51:00 - [1016] Originally by: Fenderson i was just thinking about this and getting upset so i thought i'd whine a little Lets look at vagabond vs deimos. Sure its not a fair comparison, the vaga is way overpowered. But the ships are designed to fill pretty much the same role in theory, so in some ways it is valid. Comparing possible fittings with 1 RCU II: Vagabond: 5 x 220mm ac med nos LARGE extender LARGE shield booster MWD II Scram nanos/gyros/WCS in whatever combination desired Deimos: 5 x ions med nos mwd,scram, web or cap charger MED rep 3x harders 1 mag stab So to recap, using 1 RCU II and the same high slot configuration, on the vaga you can fit a large rep and extender, whereas the deimos can only fit a med rep and some hardeners, making the survivability of the vaga waaaaay longer. Plate? forget about it. And thats not even factoring in speed/manueverability in any way. grrrrrr.... What's even funnier, if you drop the Nos (useless unless you go for a 15km+ faction one really) and go for dual-Large Extender set-up (7k shields!), you don't need any fitting mods on a Vagabond. Seriously, fitting a Vaga is so easy compared to the Deimos (or the Ishtar) I feel like crying. Well, not really since I can fly both but you get the point. So thanks for the extra grid Tux. Now it just needs some more speed and agility! Quote: Pew pew... ka-boom.... pew pew... squishhh
Space Samuri	Posted - 2006.10.23 02:08:00 - [1017] Originally by: Xpar To keep in line with the Tuxford's philosophy of the new Tier 3 Gallente BS, Hyperion, that is to lower the mass of blasterboats, I kind of feel Deimos should get a mass reduction as well. FFS you got your little grid upgrade, now something else? It will never end..
GO MaZ No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.23 02:23:00 - [1018] Originally by: Space Samuri Originally by: Xpar To keep in line with the Tuxford's philosophy of the new Tier 3 Gallente BS, Hyperion, that is to lower the mass of blasterboats, I kind of feel Deimos should get a mass reduction as well. FFS you got your little grid upgrade, now something else? It will never end.. The proposed plate boost makes the deimos just as useless as it is now
Breed Love Minmatar Stormriders	Posted - 2006.10.23 02:38:00 - [1019] Originally by: Space Samuri Originally by: Xpar To keep in line with the Tuxford's philosophy of the new Tier 3 Gallente BS, Hyperion, that is to lower the mass of blasterboats, I kind of feel Deimos should get a mass reduction as well. FFS you got your little grid upgrade, now something else? It will never end.. Actually a speed/agility boost was one of the first requested changes. Its not just the grid thats the problem. ------ Originally by: Gazon In any case, the whole affair had one lasting effect: Awarding Stormriders the label of ridiculous drug addicts with a tendency towards utterly foolish actions.
Sadist Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.10.23 05:41:00 - [1020] Reduce mass by 1,000,000kg, increase base speed to 190 m/s. That's all the boost this baby needs tbh. òòòòòòòòòòòò VIP member of the [23] Quote: - Numbers alone do not win a battle - No, but I bet they help.

Jazz Bo Caldari Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2006.10.23 11:44:00 - [1021] Originally by: Space Samuri Originally by: Xpar To keep in line with the Tuxford's philosophy of the new Tier 3 Gallente BS, Hyperion, that is to lower the mass of blasterboats, I kind of feel Deimos should get a mass reduction as well. FFS you got your little grid upgrade, now something else? It will never end.. It's not "now something else", if you actually read this thread, you'll notice that Speed/agility is probably asked for more than Pg/Cpu. For example, a Deimos currently has zero chance of winning a fight against, say, a Vagabond or Zealot unless the fight starts at <10km. It's too slow to get in web range. A Deimos only has a chance of winning if it manages that, and currently it's not just hard (it should be, we're not asking for an I-Win-ButtonÖ), it's impossible. Quote: Pew pew... ka-boom.... pew pew... squishhh
Enkilil	Posted - 2006.11.09 15:35:00 - [1022] Edited by: Enkilil on 09/11/2006 15:36:23 with the added speed, I would also love to see at least 1 missle hardpoint on the Deimos, to do something whilst closing the long gap to get in blaster range. Why none for Gallente HACs? 2 HACS and neither with a single missle hardpoint? This doesn't make any sense... Even the Vigilant has ONE..... If you want to talk about total IMBALANCE, that would be it right there, imo.
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.09 15:41:00 - [1023] Originally by: Enkilil Edited by: Enkilil on 09/11/2006 15:36:23 with the added speed, I would also love to see at least 1 missle hardpoint on the Deimos, to do something whilst closing the long gap to get in blaster range. Why none for Gallente HACs? 2 HACS and neither with a single missle hardpoint? This doesn't make any sense... Even the Vigilant has ONE..... If you want to talk about total IMBALANCE, that would be it right there, imo. Lol no thx.. the last thing the deimos needs is a missile hardpoint, you can use a celestis/lachesis if you wanna use missiles with gallente. Deimos is still gimp especially considering the new HP buff, it will run out of cap faster, and its insignificant PG doesnt allow it to use plate/extenders like others, which will get it killed much faster. DPS doesnt mean much any more, whats most important is the ammount of HP you can amass on your ship
Enkilil	Posted - 2006.11.09 15:50:00 - [1024] I was extremely happy w/ the way the Vigilant turned out, with 1 missle hardpoint and the rest Neutron blaters... it fit very well w/ my setup... Just seems kind of a nerf to pretty much afford every faction / race a HAC w/ missle hardpoints, yet the Gallente get none. Yes, I love my drones, but If I wanted a drone-ship I'd fly the Ishtar, which, understandably doesn't have a missle hardpoint either. If the Deimos is to be this lumbering boob of a HAC, that deals out some 'ok damage if you can fit it', then why not make it a bit more versitile to accomodate its' lack of speed. Sorry, but the current layout is not what I would expect from a beefed up Thorax, especially when I'm looking @ my training schedule and picking which one I would like to fly.
Akiman	Posted - 2006.11.09 17:00:00 - [1025] make layout 5-4-6 thatll solve deimos :) tho signed bout agility problem...shes a ******
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.09 18:21:00 - [1026] Originally by: Akiman make layout 5-4-6 thatll solve deimos :) tho signed bout agility problem...shes a ****** Definetly QTF
Skrypt Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.12 08:24:00 - [1027] ffs.. the deimos still need some attention tux. We've been on your arse for so long and you put a little work into it but not nearly enough. I've tested it on kali and it's simply useless. I'd rather use an Ishtar. It's faster, more agile, has a better tank, large cargo hold, and essentially the same DPS but would infinitely more versatility. The Deimos simply blows. ___________
Sadist Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.11.12 08:29:00 - [1028] CCP: Making your deimos suck since RMR, now with nerfed t2 blaster ammo as well! Enjoy! òòòòòòòòòòòò VIP member of the [23] Quote: - Numbers alone do not win a battle - No, but I bet they help.
Ihar Enda Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.12 10:35:00 - [1029] Originally by: Sadist CCP: Making your deimos suck since RMR, now with nerfed t2 blaster ammo as well! Enjoy! And 50% hp boost. And a month ago it was on a good way to be a decent ship again...
Bazman Caldari Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.12 10:48:00 - [1030] I'm afraid you can kiss the Deimos goodbye with Kali, it's not just bad in Kali, it is litterally obsolete. Oh well ----- OMG READ TUXFORD!!!1

Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.12 10:52:00 - [1031] Originally by: Skrypt ffs.. the deimos still need some attention tux. We've been on your arse for so long and you put a little work into it but not nearly enough. I've tested it on kali and it's simply useless. I'd rather use an Ishtar. It's faster, more agile, has a better tank, large cargo hold, and essentially the same DPS but would infinitely more versatility. The Deimos simply blows. Actually Ishkur has more theoretical DPS than Deimos, if it would fit guns instead of NOS (which will pretty much be the case with KALI, since we wont see any cap consuming setups anymore so NOS will be redundant). R.I.P. DEIMOS
Angus Torg GREY COUNCIL Breidablik	Posted - 2006.11.12 13:23:00 - [1032] Originally by: Ihar Enda Originally by: Sadist CCP: Making your deimos suck since RMR, now with nerfed t2 blaster ammo as well! Enjoy! And 50% hp boost. And a month ago it was on a good way to be a decent ship again... 50%? Last time I checked, the Deimos (and all HACs) only get 25% HP boost (but shield recharge time was "boosted" by 50%). __________________________________________________ (c) doomed since 2003
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.12 14:27:00 - [1033] Originally by: Angus Torg Originally by: Ihar Enda Originally by: Sadist CCP: Making your deimos suck since RMR, now with nerfed t2 blaster ammo as well! Enjoy! And 50% hp boost. And a month ago it was on a good way to be a decent ship again... 50%? Last time I checked, the Deimos (and all HACs) only get 25% HP boost (but shield recharge time was "boosted" by 50%). So in the end the deimos which already has a hard time fitting plates, has crap bonus and cap, is slower and less agile than thorax/vigilant, is easy to jam and nos, and which cant really fit a gank setup is going to be kicked in the nutts twice by KALI.. first the short end of the stick from the HP/plate/extender boost, then T2 blaster ammo nerf and finally Tuxford's ignorance on the whole issue with blasterboats (Amarr gunboats as well) after KALI... revelations, whatever.. Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
Ihar Enda Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.12 17:41:00 - [1034] Originally by: Angus Torg Originally by: Ihar Enda Originally by: Sadist CCP: Making your deimos suck since RMR, now with nerfed t2 blaster ammo as well! Enjoy! And 50% hp boost. And a month ago it was on a good way to be a decent ship again... 50%? Last time I checked, the Deimos (and all HACs) only get 25% HP boost (but shield recharge time was "boosted" by 50%). Yes. 50% hp boost to all T1 ships. It may very well kill most low hp ships (cruisers and HACs included). We'll see.
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.12 17:44:00 - [1035] Originally by: Ihar Enda Originally by: Angus Torg Originally by: Ihar Enda Originally by: Sadist CCP: Making your deimos suck since RMR, now with nerfed t2 blaster ammo as well! Enjoy! And 50% hp boost. And a month ago it was on a good way to be a decent ship again... 50%? Last time I checked, the Deimos (and all HACs) only get 25% HP boost (but shield recharge time was "boosted" by 50%). Yes. 50% hp boost to all T1 ships. It may very well kill most low hp ships (cruisers and HACs included). We'll see. Yeah any cruiser that cant fit a 1600mm plate/dual large extender is pretty much obsolete in KALI. Did I mention.. R.I.P. Deimos Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
GO MaZ The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2006.11.12 18:46:00 - [1036] The problem with the deimos on the test server now (apart from speed / agility) is it cant fit an injector without dropping a web or scram, which is bull** to be quite honest (web drones aren't a solution - losing 150 dps on a ship MADE for gank = NO). Due to the HP boost, it no longer does enough dps to overwhelm ships before it runs out of cap - I'm talking about just about any T1 BC or HAC here. This HP boost means that Nos and injectors are now MORE important in combat (nos rokh anyone?), 2 things that the deimos simply cannot use. My god** electron II brutix pees all over my deimos on sisi, simply because it can fit a cap booster. And the whole fact it has 4000HP with most of a high-grade slave set (minus the omega) while other hacs have 10k+ without any implants at all, well thats just icing on the OMFGDEIMOSBLOWS cake
Ihar Enda Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.12 19:01:00 - [1037] Yeah... to be flyable it needs enough pg to fit an injector and a 800 plate + med repper, or 1600 and small repper (along with ions/neutrons...). And a 4th mid slot to have where to fit it in the first place. A boost in agility would also be nice.
Segmentor Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.12 19:16:00 - [1038] Or simply remove the stupid 50% and 25% HP bonus for t1 and t2 ships respectively. Keep the hp bonuses for Capital ships, but leave everything else alone! ---
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.12 19:32:00 - [1039] Originally by: Segmentor Or simply remove the stupid 50% and 25% HP bonus for t1 and t2 ships respectively. Keep the hp bonuses for Capital ships, but leave everything else alone! Its a good change, but its not tought out well, cap consuming ships and setups are doomed to failure in KALI.. and that means half of gallente ships and 90% of amarr ships! Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2006.11.13 12:02:00 - [1040] Originally by: Space Samuri Originally by: Xpar To keep in line with the Tuxford's philosophy of the new Tier 3 Gallente BS, Hyperion, that is to lower the mass of blasterboats, I kind of feel Deimos should get a mass reduction as well. FFS you got your little grid upgrade, now something else? It will never end.. Grid increase doesn't do much, the old setup we wanted doesn't fit without fitting mods even with the grid increase. And with the other changes, no plate means you're fecked. Only thing the grid increase does is if you keep the RCU fitted, you can fit a damage rig.

Asmodeos Gallente United Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.13 12:54:00 - [1041] With Kali, i can fit on a deimos: 5x electron blasters II 1x Medium nos (named) Med cap booster (named) Mwd (named) Warp scrambler/disruptor II 2x eanm II or better 1x explosive hardener II or better 1x med armour repper II or better 1x internal force field array I (or another MFS II) 1x Magnetic field Stab II 5 x tech 2 light drones Good resists, good damage and cap booster when in cap trouble. This should do okayish i guess :)
GO MaZ The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2006.11.13 12:56:00 - [1042] Originally by: Gariuys Grid increase doesn't do much, the old setup we wanted doesn't fit without fitting mods even with the grid increase. And with the other changes, no plate means you're fecked. Only thing the grid increase does is if you keep the RCU fitted, you can fit a damage rig. Speaking of rigs... the brutix will fit a dual rep, injected electron II setup with TWO damage rigs, no grid upgrades, just for comparison. Now I know the brutix is a higher class, but even without the assault resists it tanks pretty similarly and has, iirc, over double the armor of the deimos to start with. With 2 damage rigs it also does very similar, if not more damage than the deimos. Go figure.
GO MaZ The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2006.11.13 12:58:00 - [1043] Originally by: Asmodeos Good resists, good damage and cap booster when in cap trouble. This should do okayish i guess :) How do you expect to keep people held down without a web? Especially with the shortest range blasters...
Asmodeos Gallente United Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.13 13:08:00 - [1044] Edited by: Asmodeos on 13/11/2006 13:11:16 we'll offcourse you'll need help from someone who webs ^_^, and if ur alone, pick ur fights wisely can sometimes help:P
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.13 14:15:00 - [1045] longest thread ever? High-Sec/0.0 PvP Recruitment
Alpha Prime Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.13 14:25:00 - [1046] Read my sigg all, there¦s your answer . We¦ve been at it for so long you¦d think something would happen in the right direction, but noo. Having Tux fixing the blasterships is like having a blind man teaching you how to drive. Just wont work.
Ihar Enda Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.13 20:03:00 - [1047] Bump for this fine looking ship
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2006.11.13 21:09:00 - [1048] Originally by: Asmodeos Edited by: Asmodeos on 13/11/2006 13:11:16 we'll offcourse you'll need help from someone who webs ^_^, and if ur alone, pick ur fights wisely can sometimes help:P So you can kill people you land 5km away from, if they don't have propulsion mods.... go you. I'm expecting a bit more really.
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2006.11.13 21:11:00 - [1049] Originally by: GO MaZ Originally by: Gariuys Grid increase doesn't do much, the old setup we wanted doesn't fit without fitting mods even with the grid increase. And with the other changes, no plate means you're fecked. Only thing the grid increase does is if you keep the RCU fitted, you can fit a damage rig. Speaking of rigs... the brutix will fit a dual rep, injected electron II setup with TWO damage rigs, no grid upgrades, just for comparison. Now I know the brutix is a higher class, but even without the assault resists it tanks pretty similarly and has, iirc, over double the armor of the deimos to start with. With 2 damage rigs it also does very similar, if not more damage than the deimos. Go figure. I'm not even gonna mention what a astarte can do with rigs ( think 1500 dps from medium blasters with a respectable tank and all the mods you could want )
GO MaZ The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2006.11.14 11:01:00 - [1050] Originally by: Kaeten longest thread ever? Only beaten by a thread whining about an entire **** race of ships. Oh well, I'm selling my 2 deimoses off before kali... anyone WTB?

Akiman	Posted - 2006.11.15 12:34:00 - [1051] So all those replies and nothing?...well we dont want to change any slot\turret layout or ship ability or something like that... We just want speed and pg to survive under web, scrambler, nos range.This ship is for close range.
Durethia Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.17 20:50:00 - [1052] This is a bump. Because CCP has effectively side-stepped the issues at hand and the new PowerGrid increase proposed for Kali are NOT going to change ship setups. I think the only thing that might change, is the fact I'll be able to fit a T2 MWD on now instead of the Y-T8 MWD. I will NOT be able to fit a Medium NOS in the highes, I will not be able to replace the T2 Ions with T2 Neutrons. I also will not be able to move around any faster than before. Tuxford, boosting a ships power grid by more than 100pg might seem extreme, but it's not... because the original power grid alloted for the Deimos really DOES SUCK THAT BAD. The ship CAN NOT fit a reasonable fit, and it's not shy a handful of PG either.... it's short a B*TTLOAD of PG! 90PG increase is NOT enough.
CherniyVolk	Posted - 2006.11.17 21:04:00 - [1053] Originally by: Jazz Bo For example, a Deimos currently has zero chance of winning a fight against, say, a Vagabond or Zealot unless the fight starts at <10km. Starting at 35KM, a Deimos can not win against a Arty fit Munin with no tank. That's with drones/blasters everything. It's too slow, it can not close the distance before it pops under the slow RoF high alpha damage arty setups. You might get two volleys off, and put the Munin 70% into armor, but ultimately, you're dead before you touch his structure.
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.11.17 21:29:00 - [1054] CherniyVolk, in a 1v1 starting at 35km the blaster Deimos cannot kill me. Period. I have a MWD. I am quicker in my Munnin than the Deimos is :) //Maya
Alowishus Shadow Company Alektorophobia	Posted - 2006.11.17 21:46:00 - [1055] Edited by: Alowishus on 17/11/2006 21:46:36 I was going to get a HAC. But then I realized that paying what they cost and ultimately getting a ship that everyone hates and complains about constantly is stupid. I have a bagillion skill points and I'm often seen flying a Rupture with T1 junk I found in the corp hangar. It's much more gratifying than ordering something that costs over a hundred million, waiting six weeks for it, piecing together a T2 setup with my -8.8 sec status and then spending all my time *****ing about it on the forums. What a way to live. Not saying it's the players fault these ships blow ass but good god, what's the point in them (other than the Vaga which is just too expensive and too long of a wait)? What a HAC says to me: "I'm rich and have 1337 skills...erm I hope I don't run into a 60mil Armageddon with 10mil in modules..." The moderators here are excellent at policing signatures.
Ohmy Fugod Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.17 22:21:00 - [1056] Originally by: Durethia Lots of good points You know, I was about to ask if anyone already had any new fitting ideas for the "improved" deimos, since Gallente Cruiser V was on my short term plans, and well, came across this one. So, hello irony, I have to thank you for pointing out it'll still suck. A shame indeed, because I was really looking forward towards a reasonable neutron deimos setup. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ *Quod Natura non da, Salamantica non praesta*
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.18 16:52:00 - [1057] C'MON! Fix this ship finally, its been what? Over 2 years since we are moaning about it and still no improvement.. forget about improvement, blasterboats are getting nerfed with KALI, I mean WTF Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
Buzzmong Gallente Raptus Regaliter Pride - Honor - Duty	Posted - 2006.11.19 00:09:00 - [1058] Originally by: Kunming C'MON! Fix this ship finally, its been what? Over 2 years since we are moaning about it and still no improvement.. forget about improvement, blasterboats are getting nerfed with KALI, I mean WTF Bit of a laugh that isnt it? considering the devs want to nerf long range combat, yet bring out the cald bs(rohk) which'll pretty much shoot at a star in distant system. Think I might have to go recon, no sense wasting gal cruiser lvl 5 just for a broken hac (no, dont like drones as a main weapon, so no ishtar for me). --------------------------------- Member of Raptus Regaliter
Xoduse Beasts of Burden Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.11.19 09:06:00 - [1059] Originally by: Buzzmong Originally by: Kunming C'MON! Fix this ship finally, its been what? Over 2 years since we are moaning about it and still no improvement.. forget about improvement, blasterboats are getting nerfed with KALI, I mean WTF Bit of a laugh that isnt it? considering the devs want to nerf long range combat, yet bring out the cald bs(rohk) which'll pretty much shoot at a star in distant system. Think I might have to go recon, no sense wasting gal cruiser lvl 5 just for a broken hac (no, dont like drones as a main weapon, so no ishtar for me). Same here, I think im going recons. With the extra power grid the only change was I was able to fit this: 3xIOn IIs 2x Electrons 1x medium nos 1x y-t8 mwd 1x web 1x scram 1x med rep II 1x EANM II 1x energized reactive II 2x Mag Stab IIs 1x dmg control So basically the extra powergrid just let me use the hi slot for a medium nos for a change. Deimos doesnt go any faster, isnt any more agile, and still has a really thin tank compared to other HACs. Recons for me. Deimos goes on the market b4 Kali hits. ---------------------
slothe Caldari Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.11.19 09:32:00 - [1060] Edited by: slothe on 19/11/2006 09:33:48 Edited by: slothe on 19/11/2006 09:33:29 fix fix fix fix fix fix fix fix fix. thanks. ive frigging bought 4 muninns because they are MUCH better than the deimos (now and) post kali. comon ccp pleeeease for the love of god make it worth flying.

MOS DEF Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.11.19 10:10:00 - [1061] Just sold mine as long it still costs the ridiculous isk it does now. MY astarte with a single inertia stabilizer is faster MORE AGILE , tanks better and has more DPS then the deimos. Yes it has a larger sig but it tanks better wich makes up for it. The deimos is just crap and in order to last a fight after kali you either get rid of the scrambler or webber to fit an injector wich plain sucks.
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.19 11:00:00 - [1062] Edited by: Kunming on 19/11/2006 11:01:53 Originally by: MOS DEF Just sold mine as long it still costs the ridiculous isk it does now. MY astarte with a single inertia stabilizer is faster MORE AGILE , tanks better and has more DPS then the deimos. Yes it has a larger sig but it tanks better wich makes up for it. The deimos is just crap and in order to last a fight after kali you either get rid of the scrambler or webber to fit an injector wich plain sucks. I even gave up on both scram and web to fit shield extenders and plate + dmg mods.. still felt like a straw-man with a pea shooter! As long as this ship cant fit a full rack of neutrons together with med nos, med rep and a plate its pretty pointless going into MELEE RANGE just to get your self killed! I can understand why Tuxford cant seem to fix the deimos and blasterboats in general. He fails to look at the general picture of a ship.. - Deimos cant fit neutrons in a reasonable setup cause of the lacking fitting stats - Deimos has 0 DPS on its dmg delivered graph, this is not the same as missiles where the dmg recieved by target is delayed but dmg delivered is constant, deimos delivers 0 dmg until its in range.. So it either needs a monster tank (which would be overpowered) or monster DMG to compensate for the undelivered DMG. Not to forget that the ship is SLOWER than a THORAX - Deimos does not win the fight once in range, infact the ship becomes even more exposed to a series of stuff it has no counter to and is very weak against (NOS, webs, scrams, painters, ECM, etc) - Deimos doesnt even have enough cap to run its setup, NOS (even small one) is mandatory - Deimos has an "anti-Bonus", the cap penalty reduction bonus is not much of a help to the ship since MWD is a mandatory module on any blasterboat anyway. While the other HACs all get some sort of real bonus the deimos gets a penatly reduction to a module it HAS to fit and that was nerfed to hell and back due to dual-MWD missile boats (now gun boats have to take the punishment despite them having nothing to do with dual-MWD bull***), at least change it so you dont get the huge signature penalty, I can live with 18.5% less cap. - Deimos has a concept (overwhelm you target with DPS before your weak tank fails) which is obsolete with KALI's HP and plate/extender boost. The ship cant fit plates due to low PG anyway, so it lost at that game from the begining, and high DPS will be less important than high durability! DEAR TUXFORD, if you dont finally fix the deimos and blasterboats in general, I will have lost all my faith in your good will and wont pay the next bill which is ironically* 1 day after KALI release on 29th. I will NOT cross train to caldari or matari, blasterboats is what I have fun doing in this game.. I'm already (forced to) flying drone/NOS boats since over a year now, I wont wait another year for you to fix blasterboats. Edit: anxiously waiting to start using my 12mil Gunnery SP Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
Ihar Enda Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.19 11:00:00 - [1063] Originally by: MOS DEF Just sold mine as long it still costs the ridiculous isk it does now. MY astarte with a single inertia stabilizer is faster MORE AGILE , tanks better and has more DPS then the deimos. After the BC agility boost in Kali you probably won't even need the inertia stab.
MOS DEF Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.11.19 11:08:00 - [1064] Originally by: Ihar Enda Originally by: MOS DEF Just sold mine as long it still costs the ridiculous isk it does now. MY astarte with a single inertia stabilizer is faster MORE AGILE , tanks better and has more DPS then the deimos. After the BC agility boost in Kali you probably won't even need the inertia stab. This testing is from sisi. Yes it is okish without but with inertia it beats the deimos agility. Not great tank but makes a good fast roamer with good damage. OFC any heavy NOS BS will slap it around.
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.19 11:12:00 - [1065] Mandatory mods a ship has to fit after KALI: * Non-cap consuming weapons (Drones/missiles/projectiles) * Plate or shield extender, preferably shields * Energy neutralizer or nosferatu (against those stupid enough to fit a cap consuming setup) Mandatory mods a deimos has to fit: * MWD - to get in range * Webbifier - to not repeat step #1 again * Nosferatu - (even a small one) to run weapons * Blasters - obviously Deimos gets pretty obsolete in the world of "non-cap consumers".. Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
Lilani Kuzma Gallente Brass Monkeys Society The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2006.11.19 12:08:00 - [1066] I am flyng deimos constantly for like 3 weeks neaw lost one in pvp::::: YET IT sucks in pg IT SUCKS in speeddd comon TUX don¦t suck like in the nighthawk thread:::: u suck for an instance in that cose it took a lot of time to fix something but this is outrageous if ur not capable step down::::: just step down and keep quiet
Chewan Mesa Beagle Corp	Posted - 2006.11.19 12:10:00 - [1067] Originally by: Lilani Kuzma I am flyng deimos constantly for like 3 weeks neaw lost one in pvp::::: YET IT sucks in pg IT SUCKS in speeddd comon TUX don¦t suck like in the nighthawk thread:::: u suck for an instance in that cose it took a lot of time to fix something but this is outrageous if ur not capable step down::::: just step down and keep quiet Siganture removed due to profanity - Serathu ([email protected])
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.19 13:48:00 - [1068] Originally by: Lilani Kuzma ...if ur not capable step down::::: just step down and keep quiet Exactly my thought TBH, I was even thinking about making a new topic on this. Tuxford has not only dissapointed the deimos fans and blaster/laser users for some time now, but also showed quite a lack of expertise with the complete balancing of the game. Just recently the balancing of drake: Even I, as a missile-hater, know that the problem was not with the DPS but with the tank it could fit on.. then we have the whole ECM/EW, Amarr, useless ships (stealth bombers..), etc issues! Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
slothe Caldari Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.11.20 10:16:00 - [1069] can we have someone in ccp comment on the deimos please?
GO MaZ The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2006.11.20 11:16:00 - [1070] Originally by: slothe can we have someone in ccp comment on the deimos please? The comment was back on page 20-something "I'm looking into it.". Looking back now, I'm assuming what he would've said had he elaborated is "I'm looking into giving you guys a small PG and CPU boost, so you can fit your ships slightly better, and then what I'm going to do is boost all the other ships that can fit plates / extenders, nerf blasters and make all the modules that a deimos CAN'T fit totally mandatory in PVP. I do this because I lost my PVP virginity to a deimos pilot."

Lucus Ranger Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.20 11:18:00 - [1071] sigh I knew this would happen.. Almost 1 year on from this thread, only 1 minor improvement on sisi which tbh did hardly anything and it gets nullified by the new hp boost... Think I'll just keep mine as a npcing ship now
slothe Caldari Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.11.20 13:29:00 - [1072] Edited by: slothe on 20/11/2006 13:30:59 Originally by: Lucus Ranger Think I'll just keep mine as a npcing ship now i would.....but the beagles better my anti-guristas beagle has 4 neutrons, 2 heavy launchers, 10mn mwd, large shield extender , webber, kinetic hardner, small gisti booster, 2x pds, 2x mag stabs. 5.5k shields, good passive recharge, dont relly need to use small booster which runs indefinately, good speed and cap / cap recharge, great damage. i tried the deimos but thats better :/
Lilani Kuzma Gallente Brass Monkeys Society The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2006.11.21 21:07:00 - [1073] mmm :/ help the deimos
Tetovo Caldari Black Lance Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.22 21:55:00 - [1074] Sad to see what kali has done to blasterboats, especially this one.
phillie blunt	Posted - 2006.11.23 00:56:00 - [1075] this ship need more boost CCP! plsssss /me crie
Ihar Enda Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.23 15:40:00 - [1076] I took the liberty of posting a Deimos thread in the Kali/Revelations forums. Maybe it'll get noticed there. Feel free to bump.
slothe Caldari Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.11.23 15:51:00 - [1077] i would never shamelesly bump a thread. shame on you for even suggesting it.
Ihar Enda Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.23 16:00:00 - [1078] Originally by: slothe i would never shamelesly bump a thread. shame on you for even suggesting it. Thanks for bumping this thread though.
Jenstruant Fogg	Posted - 2006.11.23 16:07:00 - [1079] Originally by: Ihar Enda Originally by: slothe i would never shamelesly bump a thread. shame on you for even suggesting it. Thanks for bumping this thread though. Someone lacks sarcasm/ironical wit
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2006.11.23 18:04:00 - [1080] In 1 week, this thread will have been going for a year!

Breed Love FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.23 18:08:00 - [1081] Originally by: Gariuys In 1 week, this thread will have been going for a year! !!
Ihar Enda Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.23 21:29:00 - [1082] Originally by: Gariuys In 1 week, this thread will have been going for a year! Almost the same time Kali hits. A good opportunity to end this nonsense and fix the ship? Tux? Otherwise I can see this thread running for another year, or at least until another major expansion.
Rex Wolfen Caldari SteelVipers YouWhat	Posted - 2006.11.23 21:39:00 - [1083] bump, signed and whatnot..... Originally by: Troezar Minmatar look like you dropped a magnet in a spare parts bin and a few stuck...
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.23 22:56:00 - [1084] Dash should change the topic to "Make her worthwhile to fly" I'm so anxiously waiting for KALI... NOT!!! Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
Ihar Enda Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.24 22:09:00 - [1085] Originally by: Kunming Dash should change the topic to "Make her worthwhile to fly" I'm so anxiously waiting for KALI... NOT!!! I'm still waiting for Kali. Just need to find other ships to fly in if the Deimos isn't fixed.
FireWynd Caldari Finis Lumen Asylum	Posted - 2006.11.26 17:05:00 - [1086] Well heres some good news for Deimos straight from the patch notes: Deimos powergrid and cpu increased About time!
Lilani Kuzma Gallente Brass Monkeys Society The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2006.11.26 18:09:00 - [1087] Originally by: FireWynd Well heres some good news for Deimos straight from the patch notes: Deimos powergrid and cpu increased About time! don`t wory :D:DDD it`s still gonna suck in agility... and **** like that including max speed! :DDD soo have fun..... 1600 mm platyed ishtar here i come :D
Ihar Enda Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.26 18:19:00 - [1088] Originally by: FireWynd Well heres some good news for Deimos straight from the patch notes: Deimos powergrid and cpu increased About time! This was announced about a month ago. It doesn't change anything. Deimos still needs more grid, better speed and agility, and possibly a 4th mid slot instead of high.
Alex SOKOLOFF Rage of Angels Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.11.26 19:51:00 - [1089] Maybe we get decent HAC in a year Needs MORE grid (950 isnt enough) more speed, better agility, -1 high slot and +1 med slot for cap booster. Why Vagabond has same grid as Deimos and more CPU, if its weapons use so few CPU and PG? I can't get it.
haniblecter	Posted - 2006.11.26 20:32:00 - [1090] YOU GOT YOUR **** FIX. LET THIS THREAD DIE YOU GALLENTE FAN BOIS!

Ihar Enda Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.26 21:37:00 - [1091] Originally by: haniblecter YOU GOT YOUR **** FIX. LET THIS THREAD DIE YOU GALLENTE FAN BOIS! No!
Bazman Caldari Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.26 21:42:00 - [1092] Btw, the grid changes is enough, you can get a workable Neutron gank setup on it now. There is just the slight problem of Kali being a gigantic nerf to DPS reliant ships :P Wrecking for 1090 damage with a med gun = yum. Shame thats only about 2% of the HP of the new ships you'd be shooting at with this ship :P ----- OMG READ TUXFORD!!!1
Kaynard Stormwalker Stormriders Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2006.11.27 02:20:00 - [1093] Originally by: haniblecter YOU GOT YOUR **** FIX. LET THIS THREAD DIE YOU GALLENTE FAN BOIS! If only that was true. I dont fly "deimoses" myself (maybe if they were good ?), but I can see they need something more. The LITTLE grid "fix" wont do much I think.
slothe Caldari Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.11.27 04:56:00 - [1094] christ at this late stage id settle for an agility boost but it still needs a touch more pg :/
Kay Han Caldari Stardust Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.27 10:51:00 - [1095] Edited by: Kay Han on 27/11/2006 10:51:42 The deimos needs imo: - a 'little bit' more agility (speed in general) - a little bit more PG Maybe another slotlayout (6/4/5) ___________________________________________ A wise man said once: 'Violence is the escape of the mentaly poor guys.'
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.28 00:02:00 - [1096] Originally by: Kay Han Edited by: Kay Han on 27/11/2006 10:51:42 The deimos needs imo: - a 'little bit' more agility (speed in general) - a little bit more PG Maybe another slotlayout (6/4/5) Well yeah it should at least be as fast as the thorax.. at least!! Grid is desperately needed, the ship does 0 DPS until in range which is like melee range so to say, it needs a big HP buffer to make the trip and high enough DPS to justify the trouble of going into "melee range"! Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
Damis Zohar Pirates of Destruction Union	Posted - 2006.12.01 08:16:00 - [1097] i think the only course of action is for all Deimos pilots to petition ccp for a full refund of all Deimos purchases. But seriuosly come on ccp fix it please surely it cant be that hard to do? Just make it useable!!
Alpha Prime Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.08 17:09:00 - [1098] After spending a few hours in SISI, testing Diemos and talking with alot of ppl that uses it, or knows about it. It seems that everyone is of the same opinion, including the BHs. The Diemos needs more speed, and even the BHs cant explain why CCP / TUX wont increase the speed or lower the mass of this ship. Both ships are suppose to be closerange ships, but the vaga is vastly superior beeing able to chose dmg-types, no cap for guns, better tank and finally, insane speed & agility. Giving Diemos more PG or CPU is just the tip of the iceberg of what needs to be done. Bob farted, ASCN burped. And then there was a Nodecrash
Tisanta Amarr Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom	Posted - 2007.01.08 17:57:00 - [1099] Originally by: Alpha Prime After spending a few hours in SISI, testing Diemos and talking with alot of ppl that uses it, or knows about it. It seems that everyone is of the same opinion, including the BHs. The Diemos needs more speed, and even the BHs cant explain why CCP / TUX wont increase the speed or lower the mass of this ship. Both ships are suppose to be closerange ships, but the vaga is vastly superior beeing able to chose dmg-types, no cap for guns, better tank and finally, insane speed & agility. Giving Diemos more PG or CPU is just the tip of the iceberg of what needs to be done. its because tux is a caldari ****er :D --- Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Shi Mun Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:17:00 - [1100] I believe either one of two things needs to be done to the deimos, it either needs to be made to be able to tank or gank, atm you can really only make it into an effective gank. The other thing is to give it more speed and/or agility. --------------------------- HAHA! your jammers suck now! Oh wait whats happening to my scorpion...

Lucus Ranger Gallente The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.01.09 11:16:00 - [1101] Edging the Deimos a bit towards the Vaga in speed and agility wise would be nice, but not overly so, since the Vaga is meant for hit annd run... Deimos more do or die.. * Perhaps give it 5 heavy drones for extra ganking damage and/or make 6th slot another turret hardpoint? * As I've stated before maybe making that 6th slot a med slot so a injector can be used.. * Finally maybe give it more speed and agility.. Tuxford.. save my Deimos please!.. It's still sad old birdy
Skrypt Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.27 05:12:00 - [1102] It only needs more speed, imo. ___________
Kaynard Stormwalker Stormriders Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.01.28 01:26:00 - [1103] This thread shows the beauty of CCP...lots of people from the community agree on something and yet they dont change it (to the extent the community thinks it need changing anyway) While on other MMO's people whine all the time and the devs keep downgrading everything, thus making the game worse while everyone does not realize it. cough WoW cough Having said that, I think this one special subject with cream on top needs some attention. =\
Ihar Enda Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.28 11:40:00 - [1104] Originally by: Lucus Ranger Edging the Deimos a bit towards the Vaga in speed and agility wise would be nice, but not overly so, since the Vaga is meant for hit annd run... Deimos more do or die.. * Perhaps give it 5 heavy drones for extra ganking damage and/or make 6th slot another turret hardpoint? * As I've stated before maybe making that 6th slot a med slot so a injector can be used.. * Finally maybe give it more speed and agility.. Tuxford.. save my Deimos please!.. It's still sad old birdy Give it a flight of heavy drones and everyone will scream "overpowered", and there is no point in giving it another turret slot as it barely has the pg to fit a decent setup right now. Not very good ideas tbh... But I agree that Deimos would greatly benefit from an extra mid slot, instead of a high slot. And everyone knows it needs more speed/agility to be a good close range ship, but Tux still doesn't do it. And on top of that I'd still give Deimos a bit more pg, the extra pg from the recent "boost" just isn't enough.
Kunming Outcasts	Posted - 2007.01.28 12:07:00 - [1105] Edited by: Kunming on 28/01/2007 12:03:48 This thread is 1 year and 1 month old! Even stealth bombers are getting a fix and not many ppl even fly them. Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
Riho Red Wrath Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.01.28 12:51:00 - [1106] id be happy if they removed on hi (the 6th non turret slot) and put one med in :) injector would be sweet to fit and then it could acctually work out better (not that im complaining much about the boost it got :D)
Dragy Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2007.01.28 13:24:00 - [1107] Well, this would help ALOT. The setup would be the following : Hi: 5x heavy ion II Med: mwd, web, disruptor, injector Lo: dual rep, EANM, Explosive hardener, dcu, magstab Drones: valk ii's Rigs: 2x 10% pg
Ihar Enda Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.28 14:12:00 - [1108] The 2 above posters: exactly
Nir The Doldrums	Posted - 2007.01.28 15:21:00 - [1109] Deimos is fine, it has the same problem that many 3 medslot ships have nowadays in that it can't fit an injector without sacrificing the MWD, scrambler or web. However unlike ships similar to it - Zealot for example - it can field 2x heavy webifier drones.. Thus negating the fourth medslot issue.
Liberator Girl	Posted - 2007.01.28 16:00:00 - [1110] Originally by: Nir Deimos is fine, it has the same problem that many 3 medslot ships have nowadays in that it can't fit an injector without sacrificing the MWD, scrambler or web. However unlike ships similar to it - Zealot for example - it can field 2x heavy webifier drones.. Thus negating the fourth medslot issue. Of course it can, but then you'll decrease your target's speed at about 50% and in nano-ships era, that's nothing. And don't forget that they can be easily killed.

Nir The Doldrums	Posted - 2007.01.28 16:46:00 - [1111] Originally by: Liberator Girl Originally by: Nir Deimos is fine, it has the same problem that many 3 medslot ships have nowadays in that it can't fit an injector without sacrificing the MWD, scrambler or web. However unlike ships similar to it - Zealot for example - it can field 2x heavy webifier drones.. Thus negating the fourth medslot issue. Of course it can, but then you'll decrease your target's speed at about 50% and in nano-ships era, that's nothing. And don't forget that they can be easily killed. I'm just giving an example, a similar ship of my race has 0m¦ dronebay and won't be slowing things down by any percentage anytime soon. Deimos has that option at least. While 50% is 25% less than stock med slot webifiers it is still plenty to slow someone down long enough to make the kill. And I imagine a gank fitted Deimos would love people shooting his drones instead of his ship.. On the whole asking for a fourth medslot just for the Deimos is a little short sighted.. If you're going to assume cap injectors are now must have items in PVP (many people would agree there) then all 3 medslot ships (and to some extend Caldari/Minmatar shieldtankers) need rebalancing. Really as far as Deimos specific fixes go, it needs slightly lower mass and higher base speed. Make it like 15% faster than a Thorax.
Magniacapra	Posted - 2007.01.28 19:14:00 - [1112] lower mass or higher bsae speed. other than that a 4th mid would be nice.
Magniacapra	Posted - 2007.01.28 19:16:00 - [1113] or a bespoke bonus like NOS immunity
slothe Caldari Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.28 19:33:00 - [1114] /signed again i guess *Before complaining about any ship try flying Minmatar*
Draugz Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.28 22:05:00 - [1115] Edited by: Draugz on 28/01/2007 22:03:32 I wouldent mind boosts to the Deimos, but at this point Battleships with no more than 1 Nos goes down fairly easy with a rigged Deimos. Exp rig+Cap Rig. 550-650 dps w/Ions 75%+ Resistances except EM unless you swap cap rig for EM. x3 Hammerheads T2 x2 EWar jam drones
Vincent Almasy Gallente The Underground	Posted - 2007.01.28 22:20:00 - [1116] from what i've heard, a ion II deimos with one mag stab II could take down officer angels in one min. This boasting or not?
Liberator Girl	Posted - 2007.01.28 22:22:00 - [1117] Originally by: Nir Originally by: Liberator Girl Originally by: Nir Deimos is fine, it has the same problem that many 3 medslot ships have nowadays in that it can't fit an injector without sacrificing the MWD, scrambler or web. However unlike ships similar to it - Zealot for example - it can field 2x heavy webifier drones.. Thus negating the fourth medslot issue. Of course it can, but then you'll decrease your target's speed at about 50% and in nano-ships era, that's nothing. And don't forget that they can be easily killed. I'm just giving an example, a similar ship of my race has 0m¦ dronebay and won't be slowing things down by any percentage anytime soon. Deimos has that option at least. While 50% is 25% less than stock med slot webifiers it is still plenty to slow someone down long enough to make the kill. And I imagine a gank fitted Deimos would love people shooting his drones instead of his ship.. On the whole asking for a fourth medslot just for the Deimos is a little short sighted.. If you're going to assume cap injectors are now must have items in PVP (many people would agree there) then all 3 medslot ships (and to some extend Caldari/Minmatar shieldtankers) need rebalancing. Really as far as Deimos specific fixes go, it needs slightly lower mass and higher base speed. Make it like 15% faster than a Thorax. Don't forget that deimos needs its prey close, stable, static or she won't hit cause of bad tracking, keep that in mind.
twit brent Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.29 11:01:00 - [1118] Originally by: Nir Originally by: Liberator Girl Originally by: Nir Deimos is fine, it has the same problem that many 3 medslot ships have nowadays in that it can't fit an injector without sacrificing the MWD, scrambler or web. However unlike ships similar to it - Zealot for example - it can field 2x heavy webifier drones.. Thus negating the fourth medslot issue. Of course it can, but then you'll decrease your target's speed at about 50% and in nano-ships era, that's nothing. And don't forget that they can be easily killed. I'm just giving an example, a similar ship of my race has 0m¦ dronebay and won't be slowing things down by any percentage anytime soon. Deimos has that option at least. While 50% is 25% less than stock med slot webifiers it is still plenty to slow someone down long enough to make the kill. And I imagine a gank fitted Deimos would love people shooting his drones instead of his ship.. On the whole asking for a fourth medslot just for the Deimos is a little short sighted.. If you're going to assume cap injectors are now must have items in PVP (many people would agree there) then all 3 medslot ships (and to some extend Caldari/Minmatar shieldtankers) need rebalancing. Really as far as Deimos specific fixes go, it needs slightly lower mass and higher base speed. Make it like 15% faster than a Thorax. First off 2 webbing drones is not 25% less than a tech 1 webby its only half as effective. Also anyone who fits a tech 1 webby to a 160 mill blaster ship is not very bright. Fleeting webs drop a ship to 10% which is a 5th of 2 webber drones. Also a gank fitted deimos is fit for dmg which means he will need some tech II explosive drones not webbing drones.
Draugz Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.29 11:07:00 - [1119] In the last month of pvping in my Deimos (which blew up in the end btw) i noticed the new battlecruisers are the flavor of choice. They are pretty easy to bring down in many cases so tracking isent an issue for the Deimos these days imo. Only thing i fear in my Deimos is Interceptors, Nos boats and a few other hac's. Ironicly i got blown up by a Dominix i foolishly engaged.
twit brent Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.29 11:21:00 - [1120] Any BC with 2 webbs 2 nos and a half decent tank will own a deimos.

Djerin Obsidian Exploration Services The Pentagram	Posted - 2007.01.29 11:25:00 - [1121] Originally by: twit brent Any BC with 2 webbs 2 nos and a half decent tank will own a deimos. Yes, and of course such a bc would die to anything fighting beyond 10km. That is why there are thousands of them across the EVE universe.
Exus Die Trying	Posted - 2007.01.29 12:28:00 - [1122] incrase the PG of the deimos, thanks. damage dealers need grid ! òò
Draugz Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.29 12:54:00 - [1123] Originally by: twit brent Any BC with 2 webbs 2 nos and a half decent tank will own a deimos. Any deimos with null in cargo will pwn a bc with dual web and dual med nos.
Hailstorm GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.01.29 16:15:00 - [1124] Still needs a little more grid, and more speed. Until then I'll just stick to my eos/astarte. Fix the deimos please, thx.
Riho Red Wrath Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.01.29 16:29:00 - [1125] Edited by: Riho on 29/01/2007 16:26:10 Originally by: Hailstorm Still needs a little more grid, and more speed. Until then I'll just stick to my eos/astarte. Fix the deimos please, thx. grid is fine TBH... my current fit (does ok) 5x ion t2, med dimi nos mwd, scram, web mar t2, ean t2, dcu t2, exp hard t2, mag stab t2, 800mm plate evrything fits close whit AWU4 :) its quite nice of a fit if u get into a longer fight.. but if theres more than one nos on you its kinda hard to win (allmost got pwned by a damn vex once... he got me to about 25% shields but drained my cap and i couldnt have tanked him :( .. my own nos saved the day there. ) even whit the same PG and CPU the 4th mid would be sweet... and they could remove the 6th high. Great being Gallente... aint it ?
Dash Ripcock 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.01.29 18:49:00 - [1126] One year and one month old huh... and guess what ship I'm sitting in? An Eos. Why? Because I actually sold my Deimos. I don't know anyone who actually flies these things anymore. Not in Outbreak any way. She's a dinosaur of a forgotten era. With nosferatus, increased HP, EW, new Battlecruisers and rife market inflation there's only one place left for her; a museum.
Djafa	Posted - 2007.01.29 19:20:00 - [1127] Originally by: Riho Edited by: Riho on 29/01/2007 16:26:10 Originally by: Hailstorm Still needs a little more grid, and more speed. Until then I'll just stick to my eos/astarte. Fix the deimos please, thx. grid is fine TBH... my current fit (does ok) 5x ion t2, med dimi nos mwd, scram, web mar t2, ean t2, dcu t2, exp hard t2, mag stab t2, 800mm plate evrything fits close whit AWU4 :) its quite nice of a fit if u get into a longer fight.. but if theres more than one nos on you its kinda hard to win (allmost got pwned by a damn vex once... he got me to about 25% shields but drained my cap and i couldnt have tanked him :( .. my own nos saved the day there. ) even whit the same PG and CPU the 4th mid would be sweet... and they could remove the 6th high. No way you can fit this without 2 energy grid rigs. I've tried it with electrons and i miss 0.5pg with AWU4.
slothe Caldari Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.29 19:29:00 - [1128] Originally by: Dash Ripcock One year and one month old huh... and guess what ship I'm sitting in? An Eos. Why? Because I actually sold my Deimos. I don't know anyone who actually flies these things anymore. Not in Outbreak any way. She's a dinosaur of a forgotten era. With nosferatus, increased HP, EW, new Battlecruisers and rife market inflation there's only one place left for her; a museum. /signed my 2 deimos are shelved. currently im flying a nanodomi because its cheaper , more fun, and frankly i feel im sticking my fingers up at ccp who have underpowered the deimos and bizzarely overpowered the domi with there last changes. currently training for command ships so if ccp does nerf the nanoships i can fly one of them later. all the deimos needs is - slight pg boost, better agility, not a lot to ask tbh. *Before complaining about any ship try flying Minmatar*
Panzer Goddess Demon's Rage Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.29 20:33:00 - [1129] Edited by: Panzer Goddess on 29/01/2007 20:29:31 Originally by: Scalor Valentis Edited by: Scalor Valentis on 01/12/2005 13:22:36 Deimos: Can dish out formitable damage, but run out of cap just when it reach enemy strukture. After what it dies to drones. Originally by: **y B However against battleships that do not fit nosferatus or guns ... you mean, miner BS? As soon as RMR hits, 2 nos is mandatory must-have**, and 4 nos is recomendable on any engadements that take plase inside 20 to 40km. with a few select mods, Im been using 2 heavy webber drones instead of combat drones and taking out the webber for a cap booster. Seems to be working quite well, managed to take out a zealot and a vaga, very very close with vaga. Been working good, that dc2 in the lows helps tremendously, specially when you hit structure, you still have that 60 across the board to help stick for a few more rounds lol.
Panzer Goddess Demon's Rage Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.29 20:36:00 - [1130] Originally by: Djafa Originally by: Riho Edited by: Riho on 29/01/2007 16:26:10 Originally by: Hailstorm Still needs a little more grid, and more speed. Until then I'll just stick to my eos/astarte. Fix the deimos please, thx. grid is fine TBH... my current fit (does ok) 5x ion t2, med dimi nos mwd, scram, web mar t2, ean t2, dcu t2, exp hard t2, mag stab t2, 800mm plate evrything fits close whit AWU4 :) its quite nice of a fit if u get into a longer fight.. but if theres more than one nos on you its kinda hard to win (allmost got pwned by a damn vex once... he got me to about 25% shields but drained my cap and i couldnt have tanked him :( .. my own nos saved the day there. ) even whit the same PG and CPU the 4th mid would be sweet... and they could remove the 6th high. No way you can fit this without 2 energy grid rigs. I've tried it with electrons and i miss 0.5pg with AWU4. um yeah lol.....I have maxed out skills in all gallente and I cant do that, maybe if I put 2 pg rigs on maybe but, you using all t1, I dont think t2...come on man lol

Akiman	Posted - 2007.01.29 21:47:00 - [1131] change nothing and move 6th high slot to med slot...if ure saying no...boost every f..kin thing on deimos!!!111oneonesignedeleven
Dragy Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2007.01.29 21:52:00 - [1132] Actually, if ccp didnt change the high/med slot layout they should change the hac bonus Quote: Heavy Assault Ship Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret falloff into Quote: Heavy Assault Ship Skill Bonus: 20% Reduction of stacking penality for damage modules
Dragy Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2007.01.29 21:55:00 - [1133] but then again ... it would decrease the time for fights meaning that ccp would never allow it cause they want this subsystem targetting thingie.
Arzal Caldari Union Aerospace Corporation	Posted - 2007.01.29 22:24:00 - [1134] Fix the deimos! one of the coolest ships arround, though nos is killing a still very expensive ship! and this subsystem thing sounds a little like HW2 to me.
Damis Zohar Pirates of Destruction Union	Posted - 2007.02.01 08:54:00 - [1135] Been out fo the game for six weeks and have not had a chance to try it but i was going to use my Deimos for small gang stuff only and ditch the scram for a cap booster, So i was wondering if anyone has done this and if so how did it work? Originally by: Nicocat -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How did this get to 10 pages in 3 days? o.o ------------------------------------------------
Riho Red Wrath Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.02.01 08:58:00 - [1136] Originally by: Panzer Goddess Originally by: Djafa Originally by: Riho Edited by: Riho on 29/01/2007 16:26:10 Originally by: Hailstorm Still needs a little more grid, and more speed. Until then I'll just stick to my eos/astarte. Fix the deimos please, thx. grid is fine TBH... my current fit (does ok) 5x ion t2, med dimi nos mwd, scram, web mar t2, ean t2, dcu t2, exp hard t2, mag stab t2, 800mm plate evrything fits close whit AWU4 :) its quite nice of a fit if u get into a longer fight.. but if theres more than one nos on you its kinda hard to win (allmost got pwned by a damn vex once... he got me to about 25% shields but drained my cap and i couldnt have tanked him :( .. my own nos saved the day there. ) even whit the same PG and CPU the 4th mid would be sweet... and they could remove the 6th high. No way you can fit this without 2 energy grid rigs. I've tried it with electrons and i miss 0.5pg with AWU4. um yeah lol.....I have maxed out skills in all gallente and I cant do that, maybe if I put 2 pg rigs on maybe but, you using all t1, I dont think t2...come on man lol 2x pg rigs is correct.. forgot to add it to the post :) and i like the setup enough to put out the isk Great being Gallente... aint it ?
Necroth	Posted - 2007.02.01 09:02:00 - [1137] boost the deimos !!! fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it -------- Necroth
Damis Zohar Pirates of Destruction Union	Posted - 2007.02.01 09:19:00 - [1138] Originally by: Necroth boost the deimos !!! fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it Compelling argument!!! How can that not do something now? But all jokes aside CCP i would like to take my Deimos out without by myself one day so comeon and do us all a favour.
Necroth	Posted - 2007.02.01 10:36:00 - [1139] Originally by: Damis Zohar Originally by: Necroth boost the deimos !!! fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it Compelling argument!!! How can that not do something now? But all jokes aside CCP i would like to take my Deimos out without by myself one day so comeon and do us all a favour. hehe, there is no need for more arguments, all have been allready said. All we need is to spam now, so this will not be forgotten ! Fix the deimos, ho please fix it. More base speed, more grid, 6th high slot for a med one. At the age of nos domination, the deimos is so weak. -------- Necroth
Doc Banshee Amarr Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.01 12:54:00 - [1140] Invest in some faction gear and get your deimos capable of solopwn again. high: 5x t2 ion - null/void mids: 1x SS 10mn mwd, 1x t2 24km scram, 1x TS medium cap booster Lows: 2x SS mag field stab, 2x EAN II, 1x Exp II hardner 1x 'meditation' medium armor repairer Rigs: 2x Polycarbon engine housing It works for me, and packs a serious punch Damage mod 11,004something, RoF 2,71 \\Doc._B

Damis Zohar Pirates of Destruction Union	Posted - 2007.02.01 13:05:00 - [1141] Originally by: Doc Banshee Invest in some faction gear and get your deimos capable of solopwn again. high: 5x t2 ion - null/void mids: 1x SS 10mn mwd, 1x t2 24km scram, 1x TS medium cap booster Lows: 2x SS mag field stab, 2x EAN II, 1x Exp II hardner 1x 'meditation' medium armor repairer Rigs: 2x Polycarbon engine housing It works for me, and packs a serious punch Damage mod 11,004something, RoF 2,71 \\Doc._B Do you use webber drones ? and if not how do you hit anything without a web?
Doc Banshee Amarr Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.01 13:12:00 - [1142] Edited by: Doc Banshee on 01/02/2007 13:13:32 Yeah, forgot to add webber drones :) With a deimos, you have to be very selective about what to attack (unless youre in a small gang, then youre the juggernaut). Dont rush out, attacking the first hostile you see. Use your brain, and use the deimos for what it was meant to. Insane amounts of damage, in a very very short time. \\Doc._B
Shay Ezra Caldari drunk and disorderly	Posted - 2007.02.02 06:28:00 - [1143] this thread does look alot better on the 1st page. Save the Deimos Foundation.
Djerin Obsidian Exploration Services The Pentagram	Posted - 2007.02.02 11:05:00 - [1144] Originally by: Doc Banshee mids: 1x SS 10mn mwd, 1x t2 24km scram, 1x TS medium cap booster Lows: 2x SS mag field stab, 2x EAN II, 1x Exp II hardner 1x 'meditation' medium armor repairer Hm, i don't get that. Why don't you suggest faction-hardeners/membranes too? And last i checked SS MFS wasn't all that uber. Well at least i think so. So could you tell me why you put it this way? Thx And btw: how expensive is this stuff in summary?
Great Artista Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.02.02 11:09:00 - [1145] Originally by: Djerin Originally by: Doc Banshee mids: 1x SS 10mn mwd, 1x t2 24km scram, 1x TS medium cap booster Lows: 2x SS mag field stab, 2x EAN II, 1x Exp II hardner 1x 'meditation' medium armor repairer Hm, i don't get that. Why don't you suggest faction-hardeners/membranes too? And last i checked SS MFS wasn't all that uber. Well at least i think so. So could you tell me why you put it this way? Thx And btw: how expensive is this stuff in summary? CPU problem maybe? ___________________________________
Dragy Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2007.02.02 11:35:00 - [1146] Originally by: Great Artista Originally by: Djerin Originally by: Doc Banshee mids: 1x SS 10mn mwd, 1x t2 24km scram, 1x TS medium cap booster Lows: 2x SS mag field stab, 2x EAN II, 1x Exp II hardner 1x 'meditation' medium armor repairer Hm, i don't get that. Why don't you suggest faction-hardeners/membranes too? And last i checked SS MFS wasn't all that uber. Well at least i think so. So could you tell me why you put it this way? Thx And btw: how expensive is this stuff in summary? CPU problem maybe? Faction stuff requires less cpu than t2 ...
Doc Banshee Amarr Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.02 11:38:00 - [1147] The reason for not using factionhardners is the price and cpu limits. The only thing worth switching to is Dark blood active explosive hardner - which gives you more cpu to work with. Switching to Deadspace EAN's will just make your loss even more annoying (lets face it, you WILL die at some point) But the prices are something like this Deimos: 120m 5x Heavy ion blaster II 1,2m Warp Disruptor II 25m True Sansha Cap booster: 25-35m Shadow Serpentis 10mn mwd: 40-70m 'meditation' medium armor: 35-65m Shadow Serpentis Mag stab: 35-50m EAN II 10m Armor explosive hardner 7m Polycarbon: 20-35m So deimos + fitting is somewhere around 500m. Now add a lg slave set (for extra armor, when tanking those sentries) Thats another 400m or something. Relevant implants 2-300m Total 1 / 1,2bn If you can afford it, go for it. Its really fun to cruise around in a gold coffin :) \\Doc._B
Bazman Caldari Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.02.02 11:38:00 - [1148] Just fly an astarte, 1 Deimos costs the same as an Astarte, so trade it in -----
Doc Banshee Amarr Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.02 11:43:00 - [1149] Edited by: Doc Banshee on 02/02/2007 11:40:14 I would, if I could :) Astarte is my next project. \\Doc._B
Djerin Obsidian Exploration Services The Pentagram	Posted - 2007.02.02 11:48:00 - [1150] Originally by: Doc Banshee Total 1 / 1,2bn If you can afford it, go for it. Its really fun to cruise around in a gold coffin :) \\Doc._B Well, i can't afford it. I was just curious. 1 bill w/o deadspace EANM. It's not a big of a difference to get those too, is it? ;) @Bazzman: This thread is not about astarte or w/e. It's about deimos so plz keep it on topic.

Sherpondeldey Minmatar SolaR KillerS	Posted - 2007.02.02 11:50:00 - [1151] \o/ i am in gallente whinners thread again! deimos is good as it is. at least you can try to fly in pvp. cerberus has no chance -------------------------------------------------------- nerf EOS! nerf large blasters!
Doc Banshee Amarr Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.02 11:50:00 - [1152] 2x Deadspace EAN's is another 4-500m.. at least :) \\Doc._B
Riho Red Wrath Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.02.02 14:04:00 - [1153] Originally by: Bazman Just fly an astarte, 1 Deimos costs the same as an Astarte, so trade it in hehe :P training for it allredy... not long to go (10 days or so :) ) Great being Gallente... aint it ?
Rastigan Caldari Ars Caelestis Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.02 16:41:00 - [1154] Originally by: Doc Banshee Edited by: Doc Banshee on 02/02/2007 11:40:14 I would, if I could :) Astarte is my next project. \\Doc._B Things that go against the Deimos, falloff bonus needs to be doubled to be actually usefull on a Hybrid boat. As it stands a 250 rail II gets 6km(base) more falloff range at HAC level 5, hooray for 6km!! PvP ship with ONLY 3 mid slots, lots of choices here..... Lets make a short range blaster ship with a MWD bonus be as fast as a Battleship.. 170m/s FTL. Adding to this lets give the ship a signature radius of a school bus so when you chug along at 1500m/s at your target he can laugh at your moon sized sig.. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brutix > Deimos in most(99%)of situations, Battlecruiser lvl 2 outdamages HAC lvl 5. 1 extra low/high/and mid slot, still has more cap w/o the MWD bonus and doesnt cost 135+ million when you lose it. I myself have sold my Deimos and am patiently waiting for the Astarte.
Rastigan Caldari Ars Caelestis Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.02 16:47:00 - [1155] In case anyone actually read the above. mistyped the extra low slot, Brutix is 7h/4m/5l..
Bazman Caldari Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.02.02 17:44:00 - [1156] Originally by: Djerin Originally by: Doc Banshee Total 1 / 1,2bn If you can afford it, go for it. Its really fun to cruise around in a gold coffin :) \\Doc._B Well, i can't afford it. I was just curious. 1 bill w/o deadspace EANM. It's not a big of a difference to get those too, is it? ;) @Bazzman: This thread is not about astarte or w/e. It's about deimos so plz keep it on topic. If you read the thread, you'll see me on every second page or thereabouts campaigning for the Deimos. This thread is now a year old, do you really think it will be sorted now? Its time to say "Screw it!" and move on to something that is just as manueverable and agile as the Deimos (lol) and is much better at the job. Go Astarte! -----
Djerin Obsidian Exploration Services The Pentagram	Posted - 2007.02.02 18:57:00 - [1157] Originally by: Bazman Its time to say "Screw it!" and move on to something that is just as manueverable and agile as the Deimos (lol) and is much better at the job. Go Astarte! No i don't want to screw it! I fly both and i know astarte is better by any means. Except for sexyness. I'd really like to see a slight improvement. Like more speed, or just less weight/more agility. I like the deimos. It doesn't suck. It's just not very versatile the way it is.
Sadist Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.02.02 19:12:00 - [1158] Actually it does suck, for it requires at least 4 key components to operate effectively. 1. Not being shot at 2. Not being webbed 3. Not being nossed 4. Not being EWed. Not very versatile is just a euphemism for a pile of garbage. And the devs inability to bring blasters up to par with other weapons is just disappointing. òòòòòòòòòòòò VIP member of the [23] Quote: - Numbers alone do not win a battle - No, but I bet they help.
Kunming Outcasts	Posted - 2007.02.02 19:15:00 - [1159] Originally by: Sadist Actually it does suck, for it requires at least 4 key components to operate effectively. 1. Not being shot at 2. Not being webbed 3. Not being nossed 4. Not being EWed. Not very versatile is just a euphemism for a pile of garbage. And the devs inability to bring blasters up to par with other weapons is just disappointing. My thoughts exactly. Blasters need more dmg or less cap use.. Deimos needs more from everything, though speed, pg and/or a better slot layout or bonus would be a start. Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2007.02.02 19:21:00 - [1160] Give the deimos 1 more midslot

Durethia Momentum. Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.02.02 20:09:00 - [1161] With Rigs... there's less of a PG issue than before. But, with T1 PG rigs, you still can't fit 5 Heavy Neutron IIs and a T2 Medium NOS along with all other modules appropriately filled; MWD, Medium Armor Rep, tank etc. What the Deimos needs is Speed. It's pretty slow, and for it's role it's simply not fast enough. The Deimos should not be too far behind a Vagabond in regards to agility. To keep with the expectations and bennies of all races, I do not think the Deimos needs any more top end speed. What it does need, is enourmous boost in agility. The Deimos should be able to reach it's top speed faster than any other HAC (Vagabonds included). But, it's top speed should remain what it currently is.
Kunming Outcasts	Posted - 2007.02.03 00:32:00 - [1162] Originally by: Durethia With Rigs... there's less of a PG issue than before. But, with T1 PG rigs, you still can't fit 5 Heavy Neutron IIs and a T2 Medium NOS along with all other modules appropriately filled; MWD, Medium Armor Rep, tank etc. What the Deimos needs is Speed. It's pretty slow, and for it's role it's simply not fast enough. The Deimos should not be too far behind a Vagabond in regards to agility. To keep with the expectations and bennies of all races, I do not think the Deimos needs any more top end speed. What it does need, is enourmous boost in agility. The Deimos should be able to reach it's top speed faster than any other HAC (Vagabonds included). But, it's top speed should remain what it currently is. To achieve that they'll have to increase agility modifier, which means with a couple i-stabs its gonna be faster than the vaga. Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
Alterari Phoenix Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.02.04 07:44:00 - [1163] The Deimos is a great combat ship but it has major problems against any ship that can change it's damage, but it can still kill them.... if it can get within range, heres how i see it. a deimos is supposed to be a blasterboat but unless you are at a gate camp sitting at your optimal you are pretty much dead, the mwd gives it enough speed to be within range in time to die from a barrage of missles/lasers/projectiles/drones and everything else you can shoot out of a cannon. Problem: range/speed/cap/cpu solution: un-gimp the deimos The One Who is considered smart by others is usually dumb and the excluded loser in the corner is usually the smartest of the lot!!!!!
Zemeckis R	Posted - 2007.02.04 09:11:00 - [1164] Originally by: Kunming Originally by: Sadist Actually it does suck, for it requires at least 4 key components to operate effectively. 1. Not being shot at 2. Not being webbed 3. Not being nossed 4. Not being EWed. Not very versatile is just a euphemism for a pile of garbage. And the devs inability to bring blasters up to par with other weapons is just disappointing. My thoughts exactly. Blasters need more dmg or less cap use.. Deimos needs more from everything, though speed, pg and/or a better slot layout or bonus would be a start. quote ftw
SEN 5243	Posted - 2007.02.04 11:04:00 - [1165] The deimos needs a little bit more powergrid and more speed. Fix this ship please,thx.
Ihar Enda Caldari	Posted - 2007.02.04 13:28:00 - [1166] Fix the Deimos already.
Pord Caldari Divine Retribution	Posted - 2007.02.05 13:13:00 - [1167] Deimos is crying to be fixed! Speed and agility of a BS with a powergid that is frankly laughable when you try to fit it all up. You'd think after so many post and people crying for it to be fixed it would have been by now
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Riggers Incorporated	Posted - 2007.02.05 14:13:00 - [1168] Originally by: Pord You'd think after so many post and people crying for it to be fixed it would have been by now Spoiled children cry, if the car they got was in the wrong color. Are you such a child?
Juan Andalusian TAOSP Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.05 14:34:00 - [1169] Speed and Agility.... I could write a 40 page essay on the speed and agility issues of the deimos or it's grid but truth be told the 5, 10 or maybe who knows even 20% boost that Tuxford might ever give to those attributes ain't gonna really matter. It's not gonna matter cause the main problem with the deimos are the counters to it are freaking easy and common. Who brings a 3 med slot blaster boat to a fight anyway? The deimos has one use and that's the rail setup for very specific gang warfare, you could add 50% more agility and speed it would still fail as a blastership imho. Pain is meant to be felt
slothe Caldari Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.02.05 16:30:00 - [1170] i guess the problem is the double damage bonus, there may be a fear it could easily be overpowered. however- 1. look at the astarte, can easily fit neutrons with similar damage bonus (noones saying its overpowered). 2. everyone knows what the deimos inherent weakness is. so increase agility and pg (a bit0 and it will be fine. *Before complaining about any ship try flying Minmatar*

V0idz Herrscher der Zeit	Posted - 2007.02.05 17:26:00 - [1171] ...fix it, kthnx. --------- EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak.
Kunming Outcasts	Posted - 2007.02.05 18:27:00 - [1172] Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes Originally by: Pord You'd think after so many post and people crying for it to be fixed it would have been by now Spoiled children cry, if the car they got was in the wrong color. Are you such a child? So caldari must be spoilt children since they used to object alot on these forums. And according to your logic, Amarr are spoilt kids too.. And ofcourse there are no arguements, maths and discussions in this thread we are simply all crying to make the deimos a solo-wtfpwn-mobile.. thank you, thank you so much you have opened my vision and brought us sinners on the right track Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2007.02.05 18:37:00 - [1173] hint all the other blasterboats are easily heavily tanked/focussed on heavy tank
lu ma	Posted - 2007.02.05 18:40:00 - [1174] Deimos is not a solo pawn machine..,Period. Go and find ya selves a tackler..so stop crying for 40 pages... I am sick & tired to read complains ,just becouse every Gal pilot wanna fly their every single ship Solo.! haq aan
haq aan	Posted - 2007.02.05 18:41:00 - [1175] Deimos is not a solo pawn machine..,Period. Go and find ya selves a tackler..so stop crying for 40 pages... I am sick & tired to read complains ,just becouse every Gal pilot wanna fly their every single ship Solo.! haq aan
haq aan	Posted - 2007.02.05 18:42:00 - [1176] ^^^^^ Stupid alt ruined my flame :(
Kunming Outcasts	Posted - 2007.02.05 18:51:00 - [1177] Originally by: haq aan ^^^^^ Stupid alt ruined my flame :( No you ruined yourself by triple posting Though a serious reply is indeed needed for this, in a gang your target is already dead before you can get in range and you dont have enough fitting for rails really. @Deathb.- Heavy tanking, how? No 4th med for cap booster, not enough PG for cap booster or med NOS or plates and dual med rep etc... Besides look at sacrilege, a tanking ship, and see how favourable it is. Blasterboats used to "DPS-tank" (aka kill before getting killed), this was made obsolete in KALI and deimos got even more worthless. The ship needs speed to get in/out of range earlier (at least as fast as the thorax, NO other HAC is slower than its T1 counterpart afaik), and more PG to fit a decent fitting. Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
FireMonk Caldari The Black Fleet	Posted - 2007.02.05 19:25:00 - [1178] 1) the thing about other blaster ships is that they can either tank OR gank or make a happy medium. Deimos can only really gank... trying to tank a deimos honestly is asking for to be killed and a to make a happy medium it needs more powergrid. 2) Agility and speed. Needs more agility and its speed needs higher although only by a little bit. I wonder if the devs are even looking at this thread anymore? it's over a year old and still going... WE WANT OUR CHANGES! -------------- You need isk to make isk, unfortunately i dont have the isk to make isk so i cant invest isk to make myself some more isk to make more isk with. ... Sucks tbh
Durethia Momentum. Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.02.05 19:26:00 - [1179] Edited by: Durethia on 05/02/2007 19:28:10 Originally by: haq aan Deimos is not a solo pawn machine..,Period. Go and find ya selves a tackler..so stop crying for 40 pages... I am sick & tired to read complains ,just becouse every Gal pilot wanna fly their every single ship Solo.! haq aan What you don't understand is that few Deimos pilots ever do anything solo. Most of the time, they are in a gang environment. Which, includes tacklers or other nifty things. WE ARE STILL COMPLAINING! Here's what happens. Deimos pilot warps in with gang. He rarely ever lands within 10KM of any target. All targets are 15-30KM away. He first has to make a choice, who is the closest enemy? So he picks one, and attempts to get close. As he starts to activate his blasters, enemy is dead. So, 15KM in one direction, the Deimos pilot finds himself 30-40KM away from all others who are also trying to get away. Deimos pilots have a hard time with "primary", they often have to make a choice of "Do I even bother with 'primary' as he's 50KM away? Or, how about this BS that's only 10KM away?" Deimos pilots, frequently, spend most of their time trying to get close to an enemy, while in a gang environment. There has been many times where through out the entire engagement, I never was able to get within 10KM of anyone. If it weren't for my drones, then I would not have been any help DPS wise. Deimos pilots are largely frustrated with these problems. Us Deimos pilots understand our ship isn't cut out for solo work; only three mid slots. We are complaining, becuase the Deimos doesn't shine so bright even WHEN IN A GANG WITH TACKLERS. WHAT WE NEED IS... A single MWD boost last about 10 seconds, give or take. I want my Deimos to be at MAX SPEED 4-5 seconds into the first boost including having to initiate a 180 degree turn.
Durethia Momentum. Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.02.05 20:28:00 - [1180] Originally by: Juan Andalusian Speed and Agility.... Who brings a 3 med slot blaster boat to a fight anyway? The deimos has one use and that's the rail setup for very specific gang warfare, you could add 50% more agility and speed it would still fail as a blastership imho. None of the blaster boats have a high number of mid slots. Blaster boats are supposed to be in a gang, and not solo. The slot layout of the Deimos is just fine, three mid slots is OK. You fit MWD, Webber, and some type of capacitor related module. You don't ever need a warp scram, thinking you do is a dellusion that your ship is an interceptor; unless ofcourse, it happens to be just that. You can even swap out the webber for other EW modules, like a tracking disruptor. ECM can be handled by the special drones as far as I'm concerned. If the Deimos had considerably more agility, that would single handidly shut this thread up. All other issues would have less following. As I said in an earlier post, with powergrid rigs, the Deimos doesn't have much problem fitting all cruiser modules. It's biggest problem now is the fact it can't close distance quick enough. It's tank is ok, when considering it's a blaster boat and atleast two low slots are garunteed to be Mag Stabs. With good cap skills, pretty much anything other than a amarr recon, or nos Domi or vamp phoon will not do much through out the duration of the fight. The Ishtar might, just becuase it's a NOS'ing HAC, but truthfully, what made the Ishtar so deadly was back in the day when T2 Multispecs garunteed successful jams. I bet, the number of Ishtars landing on the killboards as victims have greatly increased; just becuase it can't use ECM as well nowadays. In a gang environment, specific things should be represented by the gang members. The tacklers have Web and Scrams. Recons can specialize in their roles like ECM, NOS, Webb and Scram at extended ranges and degrees. Well, the Deimos is the hammer of the group, if everyone else does their job, the Deimos can get in there and beat the victim like a red-headed step child. He doesn't need a warp scram or any of that crap. Infact, even if going solo. The Deimos can push out enough damage to destroy some BCs before they can align to warp out... I've done it before. But it takes enourmous luck to come out of warp 2KM directly above the target... (target, activate blasters release drones... wait for target to lock and laugh.) But, as usual, you come out of warp and the closest target is 20KM to 40KM away. And, it takes the Deimos way too long to close distance. This fact, is the main reason why the Deimos might "suck". I guess that's why they are often primary, get one of the heavy damage dealers out of the way quick before it can get close to someone. If it could close distance faster, a lot of people will be screaming over TS, "ZOMG the Deimos is here and hitting me hard!!! HELPZ)RS!!1!"

Ihar Enda Caldari	Posted - 2007.02.05 20:35:00 - [1181] Originally by: Durethia If the Deimos had considerably more agility, that would single handidly shut this thread up. All other issues would have less following. As I said in an earlier post, with powergrid rigs, the Deimos doesn't have much problem fitting all cruiser modules. So you're saying that it's ok that a 140 mil ship needs 2x 60 mil mods just to function properly? It's almost as bad as fitting a 80 mil cloak into a 60 mil worth recon.
FireMonk Caldari The Black Fleet	Posted - 2007.02.05 23:07:00 - [1182] shall we all agree on the same thing then start screaming at CCP to fix our beloved ship? What do we want? WE WANT HIGHER AGILITY AND MORE PG. When do we want it? NOW!!!! -------------- You need isk to make isk, unfortunately i dont have the isk to make isk so i cant invest isk to make myself some more isk to make more isk with. ... Sucks tbh
Pordy	Posted - 2007.02.06 09:49:00 - [1183] Quite frankly yes it does do alot of damage but when you can consider taking a blaster eagle (beagle) which can tank and deal alot of damage why would you risk a deimos most of the time? An eagle can fit 4 ion IIs; 2 medium nos, tank, web, scram and mwd in mids; also then have damage mods etc on low without the need of powergrid rigs which leaves you to put better tanking on rigs if you want. Can the deimos do all this? NO! It can fit a comprimise of a tank/gank with the use of 2 60mill powergrid rigs taking up thouse two slots. A Nos boat will stop you shooting way to fast compared to eagle with 2 nos. The main two things are speed/agility as atm it feels like a battleship and more powergrid to allow us (without the need of rigs) to atleast fit a tank and ion IIs like all orhter blaster ships. The deimos is SLOWER than the thorax! Only other ship that is slower than its T1 counterpart is the cerberus but since its a missile boat and has a very nice range with its missiles it doesnt need the speed to get in range to do the damage. What good is a blaster if you cant get in range? Sure can be high damage but if ur not in range u cant do any damage. As for people who say use rails..... ok where is the powergrid to realistically fit them properly? The powergrid only gets a small increase of around 3.6% and 10% for the CPU with max electronics/engineering. The CPU isnt a problem as there is still spare but the opwergrid is lacking LOTS. As for people asking for another mid slot. Yeah this would be nice but you have to see the other main issues first. If need be we can drop a web and use webber drones etc but with the speed issue as it is this needs to be sorted first Im not asking for a solo pwn mobile just some improvements to make it a viable ship.
Ihar Enda Caldari	Posted - 2007.02.11 19:10:00 - [1184] hello?
twit brent Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.02.12 07:26:00 - [1185] Close range ships have problems when: 1) Is retardedly slow and has bad agility 2) Has very weak tank 3) Very vunerable to nos 4) Very vunerable to webbs 5) Is very hard to fit 6) no versitility Its DPS is good I will admit that but for a close range ship its tank is nothing short of crap.
Ciphero Beagle Corp	Posted - 2007.02.12 08:16:00 - [1186] Lowered mass (really use that MWD bonus) and enough grid to at least fit Ion IIs and a reasonable tank. And a dev response
Breed Love FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.12 09:19:00 - [1187] deimos is worthless in a medium to large sized gang. thus the only way to give it a role is to make it a decent solo ship. which means 4th midslot. Originally by: Wrangler We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other!
Natsuki Kugah	Posted - 2007.02.13 20:24:00 - [1188] I m really a newb in eve but my goal was to fly a deimos. because i loved the thorax in every way and HACS looked lıke the thing i would like later... now i see this i read of lot of other threads about deimos too and i m really sad.
Grytok	Posted - 2007.02.26 12:17:00 - [1189] As I just finished Gallente Cruiser LvL 5, I was looking into the HACs even more closely. So I started to think about a decent setup for the Deimos (QuickFit ftw), because I really love Blasterboats. The first and a thousand times announced issue was the PG of the Deimos. I checked on that, and with a 10% PG-Rig and AWU LvL 3, it's quiet nice and I can fit 5x Ion II, Med Dim NOS, MWD, MAR II and a 400mm RT Plate. Or change the Med NOS for a CapInjector and fit a Small NOS. Next thing I was looking into was the achieved Speed, to get in close. 170m/sec Basespeed?!? 10m/sec slower than the Thorax?!? It's the slowest HAC in the whole game I discovered OK, on with the MWD, it's about 1500m/sec (my Skills included). Turn on MWD, the SigRadius explodes, but... WTF?!? The Deimos has the biggest SigRadius of all HACs A Ship that is ment to fit a MWD to get in range close, is the slowest, with the biggest SigRadius and then on Top of that the worst Agility, as I discovered in the end as well?!? C'mon, you really gotta be kidding PG is not the problem, while so many are complaining about it. The real Problem is, that the intended Role of this ship, does not match any of the Stats, that go along with this Role. We need more Speed, Agility and lower SigRadius. Period! .
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Riggers Incorporated	Posted - 2007.02.26 12:31:00 - [1190] Originally by: Kunming Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes Originally by: Pord You'd think after so many post and people crying for it to be fixed it would have been by now Spoiled children cry, if the car they got was in the wrong color. Are you such a child? So caldari must be spoilt children since they used to object alot on these forums. And according to your logic, Amarr are spoilt kids too.. And ofcourse there are no arguements, maths and discussions in this thread we are simply all crying to make the deimos a solo-wtfpwn-mobile.. thank you, thank you so much you have opened my vision and brought us sinners on the right track Sorry, had a bad day that day Back on topic. If the Deimos sucks at close range, why not fit rails then? Especially since the MWD seems to kill it (from the above posts).

Phoenicia Macabre Votum Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2007.02.26 12:38:00 - [1191] Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes Back on topic. If the Deimos sucks at close range, why not fit rails then? Especially since the MWD seems to kill it (from the above posts). You wouldn't say that if you tried it. Its impossible to fit 250mm rail T2's. Difficult to fit 200mm rail T2's (impossible if you want NOS in that last highslot). I've tried a Deimos with dual 150mm T2's. It wasn't pretty. Peace is a lie, there is only BOOBIES!
Ziu Wraith Recondite	Posted - 2007.02.26 12:43:00 - [1192] This must be the most overdue boost for some time. The Cerb got it and became teh ubar, as did the Nighthawk, as did the .. okay the Sacrilege just became a little less awful. Come on CCP, the Deimos is one of the most potential-filled ships in the game as far as fun goes, if you'd just tweak it a little bit to put it on the level of the other well-adjusted HACs! -- [WREC] is recruiting.
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Riggers Incorporated	Posted - 2007.02.26 13:16:00 - [1193] Originally by: Ziu Come on CCP, the Deimos is one of the most potential-filled ships in the game as far as fun goes, if you'd just tweak it a little bit to put it on the level of the other well-adjusted HACs! Like the Zealot
SEN 5243	Posted - 2007.02.26 14:02:00 - [1194] Edited by: SEN 5243 on 26/02/2007 13:59:14 We want higher agility and more powergrid !!111
Sadist Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.02.26 15:11:00 - [1195] Originally by: FireMonk shall we all agree on the same thing then start screaming at CCP to fix our beloved ship? What do we want? WE WANT HIGHER AGILITY AND MORE PG. When do we want it? NOW!!!! Agreed. More agility please, and +20 m/s base speed. Base PG needs to be at least 1000. òòòòòòòòòòòò VIP member of the [23] Quote: - Numbers alone do not win a battle - No, but I bet they help.
xHalcyonx Amarr EmpiresMod	Posted - 2007.04.06 04:12:00 - [1196] Fix this beautiful ship already! Don't lock this thread, it isn't a Necro.
Paigan Amarr Katsu Corporation Pure.	Posted - 2007.04.06 06:37:00 - [1197] Right. especially the speed thing is hardly understandable. The ishtar, which doesn't have to give a damn about getting close fast because of its drones, is pretty fast. While on the other hand, the deimos, which literally lives from getting in range fast is pretty slow. Makes no sense. A SLOW blaster boat? -- This game is still in beta stage
Kai Lae Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.04.06 06:38:00 - [1198] IMO what the deimos could really use is to remove the utility high and instead add a mid. Really blaster ships need a cap injector and tackle equipment; take a look at any megaT's mids and you'll see that. Many don't even bother putting anything in this slot at any rate. I actually do, and I think 4 mids would be far more useful. Raptor and Ares Fix
Fluffernator	Posted - 2007.04.06 06:58:00 - [1199] Edited by: Fluffernator on 06/04/2007 06:59:56 The deimos is fine as is! Listen, you can either fit a tank and not so much dps, or if you have a good gang with good EW etc, you can fit full out gank and do like 800 dps!! This is completely in line with all the other hacs. And complaining about 10 m/s less velocity? Look, the ship is still rather quick. Its no interceptor. It is what they call HEAVY assault ship. To me, it makes perfect sense that its a bit slower. I dare say that the deimos might be a little imbalanced at the moment. It out damages many races battleships, and its a cruiser? Oh, and if they make the deimos any faster I might cry. Its already freakin fast, I dont understand what the fuss is about. Try piloting an eagle or something. The ship is not an interceptor, get over it. I can't believe pilots are whining on here that their deimos only does 1500 m/s? Whats the problem, annoyed that you can't close instantly on a sniper and kill him? Annoyed that other ships might, just might have a fighting chance?
Arzal Caldari Union Aerospace Corporation	Posted - 2007.04.30 22:18:00 - [1200] i would rather have the extra mid instead of that pretty much useless high slot (which is currently filled with a small nos.... because its impossible to fit anything else)but i do worry from another point of view that it would make it a little imba.... though on the other hand the ship does die to nos... like lambs to the slaughter.

DiuxDium Free Mercenaries Union FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.30 23:56:00 - [1201] Originally by: Fluffernator Edited by: Fluffernator on 06/04/2007 06:59:56 The deimos is fine as is! Listen, you can either fit a tank and not so much dps, or if you have a good gang with good EW etc, you can fit full out gank and do like 800 dps!! This is completely in line with all the other hacs. And complaining about 10 m/s less velocity? Look, the ship is still rather quick. Its no interceptor. It is what they call HEAVY assault ship. To me, it makes perfect sense that its a bit slower. I dare say that the deimos might be a little imbalanced at the moment. It out damages many races battleships, and its a cruiser? Oh, and if they make the deimos any faster I might cry. Its already freakin fast, I dont understand what the fuss is about. Try piloting an eagle or something. The ship is not an interceptor, get over it. I can't believe pilots are whining on here that their deimos only does 1500 m/s? Whats the problem, annoyed that you can't close instantly on a sniper and kill him? Annoyed that other ships might, just might have a fighting chance? you've never flown a deimos I think. its slower than the throax (it's t1 base). Also, comparing a ship that can snipe at 200km's with a ship that shoots from 3km's is not exactly wise. also, the main gripe is cap, more so than speed. this would be fixed by removing the useless utility slot and replacing it with a spot for an injector. -------------
CherniyVolk	Posted - 2007.05.01 01:00:00 - [1202] I like the hi-slot. I have a E50 up there (thanks to rigs). I do complain about the lack of agility the ship has. CCP needs to do one of a couple of things. Drastically boost the resists and armor/hull/shield amounts... maybe even an additional bonus to repper amount or something. This way, the ship is able to tank it's way to the target. Problem with this... it's like the scene in Austin Powers, where the guy just stands there screaming while the steam roller slowly approaches. I have no more complaints about PG honestly. With rigs, you can do nice fits. Now, as for fitting a cap booster... well, not sure about that. I don't know many other HACs that have enough to really fit one. The ship really does need an agility boost, or some other means of getting 'there' faster.
Jehovah Cooper Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.01 03:14:00 - [1203] Originally by: CherniyVolk I like the hi-slot. I have a E50 up there (thanks to rigs). Rigs or no I'm sure I'd rather have a cap booster than a single nos. I've even considered webber drones but they just aren't enough web and too slow to get on target. I've pretty much decided I'll only use this ship in gangs and I may just put rails on it tbh. 5 more days training left and its incredibly depressing to be training for this ship in all honesty it just happens to be on the path to Astarte.
KaptnSparrow Caldari TARDZ Gods of Night and Day	Posted - 2007.05.01 18:25:00 - [1204] Edited by: KaptnSparrow on 01/05/2007 18:24:51 after many many moons little sparrow got him self a deimos and put some stuff on it to rat/pvp in it. The goal was to be able to rat while waiting for targets. So he went with a simple: 5 x ions II 1 x true sansha nos 1 x mwd (no faction/T2 in hangar) 1 x T2 disruptor 1 x x5 webber (didnt want to put a domi on it on the first run) 1 x mar II 2 x true sansha explosive hardener 1 x mag stab II 1 x true sansha rcu (had no normal rcu available) 5 x medium T2 drones 2 x cap riggs to help the cap problems i can keep everything running for a couple of minutes and went ratting, first impression was damn SLOW. Not the max speed but the acceleration it takes freaking forever. Specially if a battleship angel rat is outrunning me without MWD something is wrong. My tank is ok and i need AWU 5 i think so i can drop the RCU, i don't really want to drop the nos. 5 minutes later a call came: hostile in next system. So I thought fine now test how it perform in pvp. I got it for 2 hours now, time to loose it. So I went to the gate where the hostile was supposed to jump out. At the same time we were organizing a nice gang in alliance chat to provide me with help. Cause noobie deimos pilot vs raven make me kinda shaky... The ravens shows up (22km out) and i engage him. His first volley strips of my shield (mwd on), the second half of my armor till the repper catches up and i somehow tank him. After an eternity, in my eyes and me running out of cap, friends show up and finish the raven pilot. At this time the raven pilot was around 40% shield. So I would have not killed him alone, but he would have killed me. Reasons i survived: - he used torpedos, cruise would have smoked me - he had no nos, i would have to run cause can't fit counter - friends came fast enough conclusions of deimos so far: - slow acceleration + nice damage, but need improvement -> 2nd mag stab II + can tank for a while - cap problems, prob skill related - tight pg, would like to fit 5 guns and a nos. Maybe step down to electron which also helps with the cap than + cpu is enough for my ideas of fitting so my conclusion would be like everybody suggest: little bit more powergrid reduction of mass increase agility another mid for cap injector would be awesome and i think would overpower it. maybe removing a low slot and give it another mid. The last highslot is kind off pointless. Only good for a nos sofar in my eyes. please take this post with a grain of salt, cause I fly a deimos less than 24 hours. Just the things which i think are the most problematic things. --- we are open for applications convo me --- gonads are open for new members!
n0thing Northern Intelligence Artificial Intelligence.	Posted - 2007.05.02 14:34:00 - [1205] Well, recently when looking at HACs, I noticed that apparently, Ishtar whos speed is fine yes, but its a drone carrier and it had higher speed then 'ultimate close-range cruiser' Deimos. /signed for more agility. Using MWD and turning is alot harder then using AB, it needs be have agility one step lower then Vagabond. ---
Eben Rochelle Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.05.02 15:17:00 - [1206] Topics still going eh? well /signed for my part, more agility or more cap and definately swap a low or high for a mid. and grats to OP for possibly the longest topic evah!
Mangus Thermopyle Chosen Path FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.02 15:25:00 - [1207] I gave up on deimos a long time ago. Its a blaster boat which means it has to get in close, and yet its the slowest HAC of them all. Whoever designed the deimos should get *****slapped.
josti78	Posted - 2007.05.02 15:40:00 - [1208] i love it when gallentre complain that their ships suck. lol
Arzal Caldari Union Aerospace Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.02 18:00:00 - [1209] don't you start, have you ever flown it? it has the agility of a wet sponge!
Balian Bowmaker	Posted - 2007.05.03 00:06:00 - [1210] DEVs, the cerb is the only other hac slower than it's little t1 brother, and its only by 2m/s! Thorax is a whole 10m/s faster than "The ultimate close range threat"??!! The deimos lives and dies by speed and agility, something this beautiful ship hardly posesses. Also, I fully second the motion to have a high moved to a mid to help with the blaster boat cap situation. Sure matari need's their mwd's too but they have much more speed/agility and dont use cap for shooting. Help the poor deimos out for crying out loud.

Khorian Gallente Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.03 00:11:00 - [1211] /Signed for more agility / lower mass Not sure about the slot switch, might really be overpowered. Alltho I wouldn't say no to a High-to-Med switch ;P --------------------- This is the signature
Durethia Momentum. Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.03 00:34:00 - [1212] Can Tux please, give us an explanation for why the Deimos is so slow in light of it's role? Any dev maybe? There was a reason, someone at CCP said "Make the Deimos 10m/s slower than the Thorax, because...." We want what comes after the 'because' please.
DiuxDium Free Mercenaries Union FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.03 00:37:00 - [1213] Originally by: Durethia Can Tux please, give us an explanation for why the Deimos is so slow in light of it's role? Any dev maybe? There was a reason, someone at CCP said "Make the Deimos 10m/s slower than the Thorax, because...." We want what comes after the 'because' please. The justification is likely the high damage output possible. It seems they simply forgot about the other side of the equation. "Within 1-10km~". -------------
Xoduse Gallente Beasts of Burden YouWhat	Posted - 2007.05.03 00:41:00 - [1214] Originally by: Durethia Can Tux please, give us an explanation for why the Deimos is so slow in light of it's role? Any dev maybe? There was a reason, someone at CCP said "Make the Deimos 10m/s slower than the Thorax, because...." We want what comes after the 'because' please. I really laughed out loud when I read that. But on topic - I'd like to know why the Deimos gets a kick in the balls when it comes to speed as well. It doesnt make much sense, the ishtar is a drone boat....operational out to 50km or so and its got more zoom zoom than the DEIMOS whats supposed to be a get in tight/kick some tail ship?! ---------------------
mafutero Princeps Corp YouWhat	Posted - 2007.05.03 03:24:00 - [1215] deimos sucks .! ______________ 420 baby!
Cyrus XII Gallente Shinra	Posted - 2007.05.04 04:52:00 - [1216] The deimos needs more speed!!! :-/ it's so close to being fixed. not overpowered. not a pwn mobile. FIXED.
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2007.05.04 09:34:00 - [1217] give deimos more speed, less mass, 5/4/6 layout and more pg, but then again that's what all people want that wanna fly the diemos and it will just overpower the deimos again so tbh not sure just figure something out I'm happy with my astarte :D
Kur'Dekaija Atomic Heroes The OSS	Posted - 2007.05.05 01:11:00 - [1218] I would settle with agility boost or speed, we don't want it to be overpowered and nerfed ...... also is this the longest "boost this" thread on the forums?
Velsharoon Gallente Endgame.	Posted - 2007.05.05 01:43:00 - [1219] It needs more lasers. O wait.
Krav Egad Inc. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.05 02:32:00 - [1220] Originally by: Kur'Dekaija I would settle with agility boost or speed, we don't want it to be overpowered and nerfed ...... also is this the longest "boost this" thread on the forums? Hardly. You should have seen the length of a thread in this forum called "Amarr" griping about problems with most Amarr ships. Krav ===== Stacking Penalties and you

Xoduse Gallente Beasts of Burden YouWhat	Posted - 2007.05.06 00:26:00 - [1221] Originally by: Deathbarrage give deimos more speed, less mass, 5/4/6 layout and more pg, but then again that's what all people want that wanna fly the diemos and it will just overpower the deimos again so tbh not sure just figure something out I'm happy with my astarte :D No its needs 6/4/5....the only really useful thing to put in a utility slot is a nos, which with a slot for a cap injector which takes a little less room and is alot more beneficial, would just make it harder to fit blasters on the already PG tight ship. ---------------------
Hailstorm Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.05.06 10:45:00 - [1222] /signed yet again. More speed and agility, some pg as well.
SasRipper DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2007.05.06 11:11:00 - [1223] /me gets in deimos /me attacks some1 /me caps out wtb deimos snip Sas has spoken this tread shall be locked.
zayanka	Posted - 2007.05.06 13:25:00 - [1224] well, u r whining about deimos and changing slot layouts, then maybe all hacs shoud loose this utility slot: cerberus (almost impossible to fit for pvp) - useless utility slot zealot - useless utility slot, no place for cap injector.... Deimos isnt the only hac with problems !
Khorian Gallente Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.06 14:23:00 - [1225] Lets face it, hoping for a slot layout change is unrealistic and too much to ask for. Slot layouts are always balanced out between ships of the same class. There are alot of ships that would be better with a changed slot layout, but that will never happen. More Agility and speed might happen tho, and help this ship alot. --------------------- This is the signature
Death Merchant InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.06 16:59:00 - [1226] Signed/ for more agility/less mass. Should happen right after I meet Elvis and Tupac.
n0thing Northern Intelligence Artificial Intelligence.	Posted - 2007.05.06 19:31:00 - [1227] Edited by: n0thing on 06/05/2007 19:28:07 Originally by: Death Merchant Signed/ for more agility/less mass. Should happen right after I meet Elvis and Tupac. qft. too bad, even tho its not balanced but deimos prolly stay as trading great damage for bulky arnaments thus not able to get into range to deal said damage. ---
Atij Gulliver	Posted - 2007.05.16 15:40:00 - [1228] /Signed More agility and less mass.
Skuld OdinsDottir	Posted - 2007.05.16 16:52:00 - [1229] Posted - 2005.12.01 11:14:00 - [1] - Quote Edited by: Dash Ripcock on 22/05/2006 15:29:41 Speak to any Deimos pilot and ... talk about thread necro , back you undead , BACK !!!! BAD VISTA
fushi yasha	Posted - 2007.05.22 19:13:00 - [1230] as a new deimos pilot id like more agility, more speed and a way to get to said speed. my set up allows me 5 ion II a dimi nos a nice resistance tank 3 mag stabs and 2 hybrid collision rigs and a mwd,and i still have 20 pg to play with. but i cant fit reppers so ive set it up to make its last stand hull tanking with a dmg control II. the problem im having with this ship is getting anywhere

DarkXenon	Posted - 2007.05.22 20:40:00 - [1231] /Signed More PG More Cap
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.05.22 22:03:00 - [1232] People need to invent the deimos more, imo cerberus is way way better hac than deimos. Still the deimos is 30% more expensive... _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Ronin Reborn Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.05.22 22:48:00 - [1233] People won't invent Deimos over Cerb because most people buy something other than Deimos because...points to rest of thread /signed for agility boost and mass decrease
Byzan Zwyth Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.22 23:01:00 - [1234] funny how the designers goal was to make a uber dedicated blaster HAC but totaly forgot speed was important to the point it ended up the slowest of all HACs. I think that says everything. Also noticed the signature is larger than a Thorax? Changes Needed +15-20 m/s +a bit of power grid I think -1 low and +1 mid would also be cool. ---------------------- Rank: Tech 1 and a 1/2 cannon fodder Pointless forum slowing bandwidth hogging signature pic inc?
FlamingErictilePhaillicy The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.23 04:19:00 - [1235] The deimos is fine as it is. Its funny to see the gallente crying about a 'slow' ship.... try flying a caldari ship and then complain. lets face it, its got the power grid to fit gank or tank, and sure its not the fastest cruiser but it sure as hell is the most damaging one. Any buff to this ship, and it will be broken. Why would anyone fly anything else if the deimos outdamages it and is faster.... The deimos is awesome in a gang, its really not meant for solo work as far as I can tell, and there is nothing wrong with that. I'm sorry its not another I-Win gallente boat, but you guys can live with it.
KD.Fluffy The Refugees	Posted - 2007.05.23 04:19:00 - [1236] The deimos is fine as it is. Its funny to see the gallente crying about a 'slow' ship.... try flying a caldari ship and then complain. lets face it, its got the power grid to fit gank or tank, and sure its not the fastest cruiser but it sure as hell is the most damaging one. Any buff to this ship, and it will be broken. Why would anyone fly anything else if the deimos outdamages it and is faster.... The deimos is awesome in a gang, its really not meant for solo work as far as I can tell, and there is nothing wrong with that. I'm sorry its not another I-Win gallente boat, but you guys can live with it.
Raem Civrie Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.23 13:31:00 - [1237] Originally by: FlamingErictilePhaillicy The deimos is fine as it is. Its funny to see the gallente crying about a 'slow' ship.... try flying a caldari ship and then complain. lets face it, its got the power grid to fit gank or tank, and sure its not the fastest cruiser but it sure as hell is the most damaging one. Any buff to this ship, and it will be broken. Why would anyone fly anything else if the deimos outdamages it and is faster.... The deimos is awesome in a gang, its really not meant for solo work as far as I can tell, and there is nothing wrong with that. I'm sorry its not another I-Win gallente boat, but you guys can live with it. Your cerberus isn't fitting guns with 5km optimal. Also, take a long, hard look at tracking on blasters. ---- I solemnly vow never to check the date of a topic or post.
Orga Azmaat Minmatar Xenobytes Stain Empire	Posted - 2007.05.23 14:10:00 - [1238] Edited by: Orga Azmaat on 23/05/2007 14:09:30 Edited by: Orga Azmaat on 23/05/2007 14:08:42 Originally by: Byzan Zwyth I think -1 low and +1 mid would also be cool. /signed. It realy needs cap injector. Deimos is cool until someone decides to put web and large nosf on you ( yeah, and stupid "bonus on MWD penalty" won't save your cap ). After what, it is a flying grave. Deimos suxx fly nanobrutix EDIT: typos
Skrypt Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.23 18:26:00 - [1239] More speed and agility. kthxbye. "I know. I know you can fight. But it's our wits that make us men." ~ Malcolm Wallace (Braveheart)
Tarron Sarek Gallente Cadien Cybernetics	Posted - 2007.05.23 18:54:00 - [1240] Originally by: FlamingErictilePhaillicy Its funny to see the gallente crying about a 'slow' ship.... try flying a caldari ship and then complain. Caracal: 187m/s? Cerberus: 185 m/s? I really hope you don't want to call that slow. What do these two ships need the speed for anyway? Tactical maneuvering? Ok, sorry for that. But it really isn't like missile boats would have to get close or care about tracking etc. _________________________________ - People are people wherever you go -

nakKEDK	Posted - 2007.05.24 08:58:00 - [1241] caldari ships doesnt need speed they have missiles and tank. missiles just fly fly fly and they hit. deimos and most other gallente ships need to mwd and use cap, until they reach target
dralid M. Corp M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.05.24 09:04:00 - [1242] The cap is not that big of an issue, because once nossed, it doesn't matter anymore if u have 1200 or 1400 cap :) More agility/less mass and a little extra base speed is what matters, thats actually all, and that will not overpower the ship, but make it usable, and not the brick as it is today. Where do the wild roses grow?
starbuck1979 KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.24 11:09:00 - [1243] /Signed for more speed an agility i love my Betty, but forget to turn that MWD off at the right time and its a lovely tour of the current system you are in Devs please read this, we pay to play and when you have a 42 page forum post i think you should consider looking at it and replying to the people who contribute to your wages. Star
Endariel Gallente Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.05.24 11:30:00 - [1244] /signed Speed/Agility
n0thing omen.	Posted - 2007.05.24 11:55:00 - [1245] Originally by: Raem Civrie Originally by: FlamingErictilePhaillicy The deimos is fine as it is. Its funny to see the gallente crying about a 'slow' ship.... try flying a caldari ship and then complain. lets face it, its got the power grid to fit gank or tank, and sure its not the fastest cruiser but it sure as hell is the most damaging one. Any buff to this ship, and it will be broken. Why would anyone fly anything else if the deimos outdamages it and is faster.... The deimos is awesome in a gang, its really not meant for solo work as far as I can tell, and there is nothing wrong with that. I'm sorry its not another I-Win gallente boat, but you guys can live with it. Your cerberus isn't fitting guns with 5km optimal. Also, take a long, hard look at tracking on blasters. Moreover, Deimos described as a 'best close-up-and-personal' comabt vessel. So, whats the point if its half-dead before it can even hits its target? Even if not slot switch, then around 20m/s speed increase or more, depending on whats max possible speed of it not counting implant sets/faction stuff. And agility of about 25% less then Vagabond got. ---
MasterDecoy Gallente Raddick Explorations Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.06.13 11:09:00 - [1246] nudge and WOW that's an old thread... Originally by: Lavinrac Krad Quit comparing Eve to the John Holmes of MMORPGs
Lore Isander Caldari Sybrite Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.13 11:39:00 - [1247] Originally by: MasterDecoy nudge and WOW that's an old thread... Because CCP doesnt care ---
Mundem Pashdale Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.06.13 12:01:00 - [1248] It may look great, but it consistantly falls under it's stated purpose as a blaster ship. It realy needs some more love, especialy on speed and agility
LUH 3471	Posted - 2007.06.13 12:02:00 - [1249] /Signed More agility and less mass.
Xoduse Gallente Beasts of Burden YouWhat	Posted - 2007.06.13 16:25:00 - [1250] Give it more agility and less mass to help it fulfill its role! "Ultimate Close-range threat...if it makes it there" ---------------------

Talon Calais Gallente Nubs. D-L	Posted - 2007.06.13 16:37:00 - [1251] For the amount that the ship costs, I'd rather get an Astarte or Eos.
Ione Hunt Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2007.06.13 16:42:00 - [1252] The only reason why anyone who's able to fly an Astarte would ever consider flying a Deimos is because of speed/agility...and guess what, the difference in agility/speed between the 2 ships is negligeable ergo: why fly a Deimos apart from enjoying it's cool looks? _______________ random sig with a hot chick
Djerin Obsidian Exploration Services	Posted - 2007.06.13 17:33:00 - [1253] I'd say we don't even need more speed for the Deimos. It just needs to reach max velocity earlier, like after 1 cycle. So nothing needed but agility increase and mass reduction. Althoug a reduction of mass wouldn't quite fit RP wise tbh. And we should keep in mind, that a Vigilant needs to be more agile and less heavy than a Deimos (i mean it's half Matar, isn't it?). So if there really was a fix to the Deimos i think there could be a need to check the Vigilant too.
Captain Zanarkand	Posted - 2007.06.13 17:40:00 - [1254] /Signed...definitly need more cpu and pg
KD.Fluffy The Refugees	Posted - 2007.06.13 17:55:00 - [1255] wow, the gallente whine lobby is amazing. The deimos is fine as it is. ITs the most damaging cruiser in the game. Im sorry you have trouble fitting it. Every other HAC pilot runs into fitting issues as well. So makea decision with your deimos. Fit it for full tank or fit it for full gank. Its not a tanking hac, So I suggest you get a good gank with some EW support and fit it for full gank. Hell if have a lachesis flying with you, you can probably kill most targets before they even get a lock on you! I fail to see what the problem is. You don't see eagle pilots whith a 40 page whine thread that they can't tackle targets from 250km away...... us eagel pilots need a 250km scrambler.
K'reemy G'udness Gallente Delicious	Posted - 2007.06.13 18:11:00 - [1256] /signed - more PG/CPU This thread is as old as me! Sincerely, K'reemy --- Recruiting - Named Items
Evolyze Caldari	Posted - 2007.06.13 19:08:00 - [1257] I love this ship, it deals nice damage and has an ok tank, with rigs mainly the power grid increasing one, i have found it possible to fit everything i want, with heavy ion II's or could have a set of electrons + nice tank. It could do with alittle more speed and agility, as it is ment to get in close to deal its damage, but other then that i can't see whats wrong.
Aston Gulliver Gallente Kudzu Collective Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.06.13 20:15:00 - [1258] Originally by: Evolyze I love this ship, it deals nice damage and has an ok tank, with rigs mainly the power grid increasing one, i have found it possible to fit everything i want, with heavy ion II's or could have a set of electrons + nice tank. It could do with alittle more speed and agility, as it is ment to get in close to deal its damage, but other then that i can't see whats wrong. Can you give us your fitting and what you use the ship for? Its sad that I have top notch fitting skills and still have to fit an RCu or power grid rig to fit a full rack of tech II ions. I mean come on, I could understand neutrons, but ions? Please... /signed for the umpteenth billion time. I would love to actually fly this ship into some real PVP combat. Until it gets a little help its staying in dry dock.
Atij Gulliver	Posted - 2007.06.13 20:22:00 - [1259] Originally by: KD.Fluffy The deimos is fine as it is. Its funny to see the gallente crying about a 'slow' ship.... try flying a caldari ship and then complain. lets face it, its got the power grid to fit gank or tank, and sure its not the fastest cruiser but it sure as hell is the most damaging one. Any buff to this ship, and it will be broken. Why would anyone fly anything else if the deimos outdamages it and is faster.... The deimos is awesome in a gang, its really not meant for solo work as far as I can tell, and there is nothing wrong with that. I'm sorry its not another I-Win gallente boat, but you guys can live with it. Do you actually fly the deimos? Hmm... We aren't asking for vagabond speed, just a tad more speed and a tad more agility. A decent vaga pilot will always win 1 on 1 with a deimos, and a tad more agility and speed wouldn't change that. What it would do is encourage all the deimos pilots to actually PVP in the boat. Lets face it, 300 mil ISK on a ship that has to get within 10k of any ship to function properly and can't turn or accelerate worth **** is gonna stay docked up.
MasterDecoy Gallente Raddick Explorations Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.06.14 05:19:00 - [1260] Originally by: KD.Fluffy wow, the gallente whine lobby is amazing. The deimos is fine as it is. ITs the most damaging cruiser in the game. Im sorry you have trouble fitting it. Every other HAC pilot runs into fitting issues as well. So makea decision with your deimos. Fit it for full tank or fit it for full gank. Its not a tanking hac, So I suggest you get a good gank with some EW support and fit it for full gank. Hell if have a lachesis flying with you, you can probably kill most targets before they even get a lock on you! I fail to see what the problem is. You don't see eagle pilots whith a 40 page whine thread that they can't tackle targets from 250km away...... us eagel pilots need a 250km scrambler. actually. the gallente, while being blessed with great ships have, by quite a fair margin, the worst HACs. it's debatable of course. Originally by: Lavinrac Krad Quit comparing Eve to the John Holmes of MMORPGs

twit brent Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.06.14 09:50:00 - [1261] I was playing on the test server and noticed that the MWD has a 50% increase when overloading. Unlinke other speed dependent ships the deimos only realy needs speed to get into range so rarely more than a couple of cycles. So the chances of destroying your med slots beyond use is very very slim. So now the deimos can have an extra burst of speed for getting into range. What deimos realy could use imo now is better agility and more armor.
n0thing omen.	Posted - 2007.06.14 11:51:00 - [1262] Originally by: twit brent I was playing on the test server and noticed that the MWD has a 50% increase when overloading. Unlinke other speed dependent ships the deimos only realy needs speed to get into range so rarely more than a couple of cycles. So the chances of destroying your med slots beyond use is very very slim. So now the deimos can have an extra burst of speed for getting into range. What deimos realy could use imo now is better agility and more armor. While 50% more boost is very nice, it still might loose much of it by having bulky agility so those 300-400m/s might get lost at 'blast off' to target. btw, bump! ---
Akiman	Posted - 2007.06.16 22:30:00 - [1263] she is so slow. she got too low pg. needs some love...and bump
Ciphero The Wild Hunt FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.17 16:08:00 - [1264] Originally by: MasterDecoy actually. the gallente, while being blessed with great ships have, by quite a fair margin, the worst HACs. I'd say that the Gallente have the second worst HAC and the second best HAC, personally. The Myrmidon may have made the Ishtar a little less special, but that doesn't mean the latter has got any lower on the HAC ladder.
LUH 3471	Posted - 2007.06.17 16:57:00 - [1265] Edited by: LUH 3471 on 17/06/2007 16:58:12 friendly bump deimos needs to be made more agil and it needs more speed too pls k thx ccp
Kunming adeptus gattacus Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.06.17 19:43:00 - [1266] Deimos, give it at least the speed of the thorax, atm its slower! It can also use slightly more armor and agility. Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
n0thing omen.	Posted - 2007.06.17 21:39:00 - [1267] Originally by: Kunming Deimos, give it at least the speed of the thorax, atm its slower! It can also use slightly more armor and agility. Yep, at least make it on par with T1 version agility wise. Oh and btw...bump for biggest thread. ---
Camilo Cienfuegos EP0CH	Posted - 2007.06.17 21:54:00 - [1268] The Deimos needs a little extra power/cpu - not much, but say an extra 5-10% of each. This would allow it to fit a full rack of Ions. However it can still tank until the cows come home, so I'd say a big fat no to an increase in armour/resistance/agility/speed. It's meant to be a big mean cruiser after all and not an interceptor. If you're trying to use it tackle, that's your mistake. -- Fix Caldari \| Fix Rigs
n0thing omen.	Posted - 2007.06.17 22:00:00 - [1269] Originally by: Camilo Cienfuegos The Deimos needs a little extra power/cpu - not much, but say an extra 5-10% of each. This would allow it to fit a full rack of Ions. However it can still tank until the cows come home, so I'd say a big fat no to an increase in armour/resistance/agility/speed. It's meant to be a big mean cruiser after all and not an interceptor. If you're trying to use it tackle, that's your mistake. Noone uses it to tackle dude, the problem is, its introduced as ultimate close-range cruiser, yet it has a huge problem turning itself into direction of enemy and god saves you if your enemy tries to orbit you as well, you simply wont be able to point nose at his direction fast enough. Thats the problem. ---
Grytok German Kings FROST Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.17 22:31:00 - [1270] I'm not looking for more PG or CPU, because I can fit it with either a full Gank setup or with alttle less Gank + little Tank, whatsoever. Since there are Rigs, its fine for me. But hell yeah... give us more agility to get faster in Range and beeing able to track the target down. Can't be true, that it takes 3 or 4 cycles to achieve Topspeed... thats 30-40 seconds, ffs .

Bosie Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.06.17 23:41:00 - [1271] I love the Deimos, but I don't use them now as they lack the CAP to stay in a good fight. Ever since the HP boost this has been like this as it was a very well balanced ship prior to this change. Give it more CAP I say as I have never had a problem with it's agility! "There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word, which means more to me than any other. That word is ENGLAND."
Zebloude Ouaulf	Posted - 2007.06.18 12:14:00 - [1272] /signed. It really needs speed, agility and / or more thrust.
Kunming adeptus gattacus Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.06.18 12:53:00 - [1273] Originally by: Camilo Cienfuegos The Deimos needs a little extra power/cpu - not much, but say an extra 5-10% of each. This would allow it to fit a full rack of Ions. However it can still tank until the cows come home, so I'd say a big fat no to an increase in armour/resistance/agility/speed. It's meant to be a big mean cruiser after all and not an interceptor. If you're trying to use it tackle, that's your mistake. No offence but I doubt u ever flew a deimos.. I can fit full rack of neutrons, MWD and armor tank, so I wouldnt even know what to do with the extra CPU or PG.. Fit plates, and make my self even slower? hell thats the problem here anyway, the ship is slow as a brick and fights melee combat. Usually I'm either out of cap or take too much dmg before getting into range. No one is asking for vagabond speeds here but it can at least be as fast as a thorax FFS! or have more armor to make the long trip to the target... Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
Stakhanov kleptomaniacs	Posted - 2007.06.18 14:23:00 - [1274] Rev I patch notes Quote: The powergrid on the Deimos has been increased to 950MW and powergrids on the Sacrilege and Muninn to 1100MW. The CPU output of the Sacrilege and Deimos have been increased to 350tf. What is this necro about again ?
n0thing omen. D-L	Posted - 2007.06.18 14:59:00 - [1275] Originally by: Stakhanov Rev I patch notes Quote: The powergrid on the Deimos has been increased to 950MW and powergrids on the Sacrilege and Muninn to 1100MW. The CPU output of the Sacrilege and Deimos have been increased to 350tf. What is this necro about again ? Not reading at least 2 last pages and trying to be informative doesnt look good. Discussion is about brick-like agility of Deimos that is also lower then T1 variant. ---
unknownuna Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.06.18 15:25:00 - [1276] I purchased one of these and put 2 pg rigs on it. I could then fit 5 t2 Ion, med nos, mwd/web/scram, MAR II, exp hard, DC II, 2 magstab II and an 800 plate. That's a very nice fit, don't get me wrong. The problem lies in that it costs 200m.
Bentula	Posted - 2007.06.18 15:43:00 - [1277] Originally by: unknownuna I purchased one of these and put 2 pg rigs on it. I could then fit 5 t2 Ion, med nos, mwd/web/scram, MAR II, exp hard, DC II, 2 magstab II and an 800 plate. That's a very nice fit, don't get me wrong. The problem lies in that it costs 200m. I really like the ship but that setup is a waste of money, sorry. Might aswell fit a massreduction and a speed rig on a astarte and get a faster ship with more tank and gank. The signature size of the deimos alone is not worth it . This ship desperatly needs some help. I never encountered any other t2 ship this hard to fit.
errorist Caldari Free Mercenaries Union FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.18 15:47:00 - [1278] Dont unbury old threads plz... deimos is fine today
Bentula	Posted - 2007.06.18 16:21:00 - [1279] Originally by: errorist Dont unbury old threads plz... deimos is fine today Oh they fixed the agility and speed of it? Nice. Now this may be a very good close range ship.
LUH 3471	Posted - 2007.06.28 15:05:00 - [1280] to the top

Igualmentedos	Posted - 2007.06.28 15:11:00 - [1281] I'm pretty sure that CCP has better things to do than boost gallente, (amarr? caldari?). honestly you have great ships in every other aspect of the game, just wait and stop complaining how you can't have a solopwnmobile like the rest of your ships. If you want, start flying in a gang, thats the excuse I get when I say I cannot do **** in my insert any caldari ship here.
Antodias The Scope	Posted - 2007.06.28 15:20:00 - [1282] Originally by: Igualmentedos I'm pretty sure that CCP has better things to do than boost gallente, (amarr? caldari?). honestly you have great ships in every other aspect of the game, just wait and stop complaining how you can't have a solopwnmobile like the rest of your ships. If you want, start flying in a gang, thats the excuse I get when I say I cannot do **** in my insert any caldari ship here. Hello Mr Troll, I'm really getting sick of the Deimos getting bashed because _OTHER_ ships of that particular race are good. ------------------------------------ It's great being a Dev, isn't it?
Igualmentedos	Posted - 2007.06.28 15:28:00 - [1283] Originally by: Antodias Originally by: Igualmentedos I'm pretty sure that CCP has better things to do than boost gallente, (amarr? caldari?). honestly you have great ships in every other aspect of the game, just wait and stop complaining how you can't have a solopwnmobile like the rest of your ships. If you want, start flying in a gang, thats the excuse I get when I say I cannot do **** in my insert any caldari ship here. Hello Mr Troll, I'm really getting sick of the Deimos getting bashed because _OTHER_ ships of that particular race are good. Troll? Apparently the second I disagree I'm a troll, awesome. Even taking _OTHER_ ships into account the deimos is fine. My reference to the other ships was only to say that you cannot have the solopwnmobile you all want, just accept that the deimos isn't unstoppable and you'll quickly realize its a perfectly okay ship.
Antodias The Scope	Posted - 2007.06.28 15:44:00 - [1284] Edited by: Antodias on 28/06/2007 15:48:54 Originally by: Igualmentedos Troll? Apparently the second I disagree I'm a troll, awesome. Even taking _OTHER_ ships into account the deimos is fine. My reference to the other ships was only to say that you cannot have the solopwnmobile you all want, just accept that the deimos isn't unstoppable and you'll quickly realize its a perfectly okay ship. Sorry, I just get annoyed seeing that comment in every thread about a poor gallente ship. Even in a gang, the Deimos is sub par, it relies on a large amount of variables to be useful. It has to: - Be a very expensive setup to allow for any kind of survivability (usually 3 powergrid rigs), - Fit a cap injector to counter (just one) heavy nos, eliminating its tackle and further using up PG that could be directed to having a decent damage output. - Fit an MWD. And no, AB is not an option, even in gangs. You will simply not close in time to have any real effect in the engagement. - Get in close range or die. Which is hard, since it has the agility of a fridge. Furthermore it must not: - Have any amount of nos more than the equivelent of one heavy in order to keep the guns running. - Be tackled by any interceptors which can web it If these criteria are met, yes then the Deimos will perform well and do excellent damage. However, most targets will realise this and (a) not let it get in range and/or (b) nos it. ------------------------------------ It's great being a Dev, isn't it?
Igualmentedos	Posted - 2007.06.28 19:55:00 - [1285] Originally by: Antodias Edited by: Antodias on 28/06/2007 16:18:02 Originally by: Igualmentedos Troll? Apparently the second I disagree I'm a troll, awesome. Even taking _OTHER_ ships into account the deimos is fine. My reference to the other ships was only to say that you cannot have the solopwnmobile you all want, just accept that the deimos isn't unstoppable and you'll quickly realize its a perfectly okay ship. Sorry, I just get annoyed seeing that comment in every thread about a poor gallente ship. Even in a gang, the Deimos is sub par, it relies on a large amount of variables to be useful. It has to: - Be a very expensive setup to allow for any kind of survivability (usually 3 powergrid rigs), - Fit a cap injector to counter (just one) heavy nos, eliminating its tackle and further using up PG that could be directed to having a decent damage output. - Fit an MWD. And no, AB is not an option, even in gangs. You will simply not close in time to have any real effect in the engagement. - Get in close range or die. Which is hard, since it has the agility of a fridge. Furthermore it must not: - Have any amount of nos more than the equivelent of one heavy in order to keep the guns running. - Be tackled by any interceptors which can web it - Be engaging anything smaller than a cruiser and anything faster than itself. If these criteria are met, yes then the Deimos will perform well and do excellent damage. However, most targets will realise this and (a) not let it get in range and/or (b) nos it. Okay, im having a hard time following this. Why do you throw the ship into random situations? For example, you said it would in trouble under heavy nos, well, yeah that is the case with almost every cruiser sized ship. Honestly, I can apply specific situations to any ship to make it seem underpowered and lame. I know this is an absolutely bad idea because Its a gallentean ship and whatnot, but why not just fit rails, it could possibly work? Then have a really good tank since rails are easier to fit. When you say its not agile enough are you talking about when compared to other hacs or compared to other ships? People realizing a ship's weakness, and then playing to that weakness is not a sign of a crappy ship.
Mei Han Gallente Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.28 20:14:00 - [1286] /signed As it seems the Gallent manufactors have lately focus thier ships on GATECAMPING. Adding to Deimos, a close combat ship with max speed that sux, and a weak acceleration, Hyperion gives me a good laugh with saying "Gallente lacked a pure or heavy blaster boat.." and giving it an insane speed of 140!!!! I mean slow speeds for BS are natural.. but the slowest is moking.
Alyssee	Posted - 2007.07.01 23:09:00 - [1287] Boo ****in hoo. Gallente have a bad ship. Give me a break. Fix the other races first, Gallente can wait.
SasRipper DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2007.07.02 14:53:00 - [1288] just tried to fit 1 again smashing head of wall now. snip Sas has spoken this tread shall be locked.
ChalSto The Galactic Empire Vigilance Infinitas	Posted - 2007.07.02 14:57:00 - [1289] Yea....its realy funny to see ur 200m ship orbited by Pilgrim and u cant do sh for 2-3min until u die horribly... Evil will allways triumph, becouse Good is dumb**
Elena Torres	Posted - 2007.07.02 16:11:00 - [1290] Last time i fitted one (and died ganked by 16 people :P ) was something like this: 2x Ancilliary rigs (powergrid) 5x Neutron blaster 1x Mwd 1x Cap booster 1x Webifier (got other people scrambling) 1x med repper (accomodation, t2 don't fit) 2x eanm t2 3x mag field stab t2 REALY good damage, "not so bad" tank, but well it cost a freaking lot of isk... and with the same isk you can make other Hacs impressively powwa, while deimos become "funny" that's all... without 2 pg rigs just forget to use this baby for something of useful -.-

LUH 3471	Posted - 2007.07.02 16:18:00 - [1291] Edited by: LUH 3471 on 02/07/2007 16:18:21 /signed more pg, better agility and fasteer pls - now
Robstr Solar Storm Sev3rance	Posted - 2007.07.06 01:40:00 - [1292] Edited by: Robstr on 06/07/2007 01:40:57 I think it needs more grid. Then either a good bit more tank or a good bit more speed. There really isn't a good reason to fly it, other than to throw away isk. ====
stalker cain	Posted - 2007.07.11 17:43:00 - [1293] i just got out run by a zealot....couldnt catch the guy to do anythign to him... i have a full rack of t2 ions and a dimi nos so for the most part the pg and cpu while annoying are fine(im using 2 hybrid collision accelerator rigs)as long as i dont feel like getting shot cuase it cant tank. the biggest an most annoyign thing i noticed is its 200m/s slower then a thorax and it cant turn for crap. so before all you tards start talking about how its fine and all that crap.. shut up cuase i know youve never flown it
Kunming adeptus gattacus Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.07.11 17:57:00 - [1294] Originally by: Alyssee Edited by: Alyssee on 02/07/2007 00:12:53 Boo **in hoo. Gallente have a bad ship. Give me a break. Fix the other races first, Gallente can wait. Edit: and it's only bad by Gallente standards, if this ship were amarr or caldari people would be saying it's perfectly fine. Conclusion: STFU Noobs, use it in gangs or use another ship. This thread is older than ur nimble existance, so YOU stfu noobscake.. If you think other ships need love make ur own thread, stop trolling. Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.**
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.11 18:13:00 - [1295] Originally by: Mei Han /signed As it seems the Gallent manufactors have lately focus thier ships on GATECAMPING. Adding to Deimos, a close combat ship with max speed that sux, and a weak acceleration, Hyperion gives me a good laugh with saying "Gallente lacked a pure or heavy blaster boat.." and giving it an insane speed of 140!!!! I mean slow speeds for BS are natural.. but the slowest is moking. Whole EVE has focusedf on gatecamping. There is no more space for any other type of combat. Thanks to WTZ. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Ryan Scouse'UK	Posted - 2007.07.12 02:44:00 - [1296] NECRO !!! is bad m'kay?
Lore Isander Caldari Paisti	Posted - 2007.07.12 02:46:00 - [1297] Originally by: Ryan Scouse'UK NECRO !!! is bad m'kay? Necro? This problem still persists! FIX DEIMOS! --- How do I shot web?
LUH 3471	Posted - 2007.07.12 02:53:00 - [1298] fix deimos fix deimos fix deimos fix deimos fix deimos kthx bye
phillie blunt Live And Let Die	Posted - 2007.07.12 03:31:00 - [1299] /signed x10 !
Luthor Harkon	Posted - 2007.07.13 09:31:00 - [1300] /signed

LUH 3471	Posted - 2007.07.13 09:42:00 - [1301] bump
CasC Gallente Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.07.13 10:52:00 - [1302] The deimos needs a boost! no talk about it! /signed --------------------------------------------- Watching PvP in EVE is like watching a horde of blindfolded Monkeys in heat trying to have sex
slothe Caldari 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.07.13 11:36:00 - [1303] / signed
Lestat Lioncourt Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.07.13 22:43:00 - [1304] /signed. ---------- this IS 400 x 120...next time check the dimensions please. Sig nerfz0rd.
Techyon 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.07.13 22:51:00 - [1305] I suppose I'll sign this for the millionth time. Since its still true and the ship hasn't been fixed like it should :\
Karma Coma The Rising Stars	Posted - 2007.07.13 22:52:00 - [1306] /signed
Jehovah Cooper Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.13 23:03:00 - [1307] /signed
Hailstorm Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.14 11:16:00 - [1308] /signed again Fix the damn ship, 44 pages ffs.
Kokoshu Caldari Dawn of a new Empire	Posted - 2007.07.14 11:29:00 - [1309] whine there are other races which need more imidiate input so gallente have 1 bad solo ship OMG whine to ccp seriouly have you ever looked at amarr or caldari sheessss also yeah 49 million pages but its nearly 3 yrs old
Pathogenia	Posted - 2007.07.14 11:37:00 - [1310] Originally by: Kokoshu also yeah 49 million pages but its nearly 3 yrs old So it's about ****ing time something happens, don't you think? Anyway, if there are more ships to be fixed, where is the point in trolling here?

Captain Crimson United Mining Corporation	Posted - 2007.07.14 12:39:00 - [1311] /signed. Originally by: Tuxford I have already expressed my personal opinion on this and it was very positive (something about happy in the pants).
Lucus Ranger Gallente Infortunatus Eventus Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.07.14 13:05:00 - [1312] /signed yet again You would have thought the devs would have got the hint by now. /Prince of Darkness at your service.. Disclaimer: None of my ideas or posting reflects my Alliance/Corp in any way
stalker cain	Posted - 2007.07.16 20:07:00 - [1313] Edited by: stalker cain on 16/07/2007 20:07:08 to all the caldari trolling this.. stfu! this ship doesnt even work in a gang a carreir was kill before i could turn warp 1 au and get in to range becuase this ship is slow to tourn and slow on the top end and slow to accelerate the range of her gun is about 3000m, so what you have is an extreme short range ship that cant get in to range, and if it does get into range it will be right back out again since it cant turn
Tau IX Amarr C0VEN	Posted - 2007.07.17 02:29:00 - [1314] /signed PS. Nice sig Lucus ___________ Quote: Good to be bad.
Kenshin Ender Magnificent Beavers Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.07.17 11:41:00 - [1315] /signed
Vyktor Abyss The Abyss Corporation	Posted - 2007.07.17 12:58:00 - [1316] Choo Choo!! All aboard the 'boost the Deimos' Train...We've really got momentum now! Next stop - When Tuxford geos and gets lashed and forgets he ever read this thread! - Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always skint! Please read my ideas
LUH 3471	Posted - 2007.07.17 13:02:00 - [1317] godspeed
Alyssee	Posted - 2007.07.17 13:48:00 - [1318] Apoc. Ferox. Moa. All more urgent as Gallente already has far more solid PvP choices than Amarr or Caldari.
TylerJames Team Americas	Posted - 2007.07.17 15:05:00 - [1319] /signed
Djerin Obsidian Exploration Services	Posted - 2007.07.18 10:42:00 - [1320] Originally by: Techyon I suppose I'll sign this for the millionth time. Since its still true and the ship hasn't been fixed like it should :\ this /signed

Taguchi Hiroko Xoth Inc Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.18 10:50:00 - [1321] I agree with Dash. Deimos is bit nerfed, speedwise slower than the Thorax as a blaster boat just baffles me.
Kunming adeptus gattacus Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.07.18 11:06:00 - [1322] Originally by: Alyssee Apoc. Ferox. Moa. All more urgent as Gallente already has far more solid PvP choices than Amarr or Caldari. LoL thats supposed to be an arguement? If you have HAC 5, Med Blaster Spec 5 and all related skills maxed with a +5% Med Blaster Dmg Implant u would wanna fly a Deimos instead of an Ishtar and this would be one of the most important threads for you, dont you think? Besides u dont see deimos pilots saying "Hey we are waiting for the deimos to be fixed since 3 years..." in Apoc or Ferox threads, so buzz off u troll! Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
Angus Torg	Posted - 2007.07.18 14:29:00 - [1323] Me got a Deimos with HAC 5, Blaster spec (only) 4 and a 5% medium hybrid damage implant. So... ...signed. Can we get EVE back? Please.
Kunming adeptus gattacus Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.07.18 14:57:00 - [1324] All we demand is at least the speed of thorax and slightly reduced mass, thats not gonna make deimos nber but it will give it some room for gangs and solo work. Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
Aurran Beasts of Burden YouWhat	Posted - 2007.07.18 17:06:00 - [1325] Originally by: Kunming All we demand is at least the speed of thorax and slightly reduced mass, thats not gonna make deimos nber but it will give it some room for gangs and solo work. Signed.
KD.Fluffy The Refugees	Posted - 2007.07.18 17:28:00 - [1326] Edited by: KD.Fluffy on 18/07/2007 17:33:18 Can someone tell me what exactly is wrong with the deimos? She is a gank ship through and through, her damage out put can be through the roof for a cruiser. Just like many other ships, you have to make choices, with this ship the choice is tank or gank. its the only HAC with double damage bonus and a 50m3 drone bay. Deimos already is an uber gang ship.
Ihar Enda Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.07.18 17:51:00 - [1327] Edited by: Ihar Enda on 18/07/2007 17:51:19 /signed for the n-th time Boost speed and/or agility. Possibly boost pg slightly once again and change 1 highslot into a 4th mid.
KD.Fluffy The Refugees	Posted - 2007.07.18 18:04:00 - [1328] Leave her be shes fine the way she is
Incantare Caldari Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.18 18:36:00 - [1329] Originally by: Ihar Enda change 1 highslot into a 4th mid. It's called a Vigilant. The requests for more agility are reasonable but an extra mid, **** that.
Rollfizzlebeef	Posted - 2007.07.18 18:37:00 - [1330] Originally by: KD.Fluffy Leave her be shes fine the way she is wow you must fly a deimos all the time to be suck an expert. and a douple damage bonus doesnt do any good when you have a 3km range and are one of the slowest cruiser sized ships in the game.

KD.Fluffy The Refugees	Posted - 2007.07.18 21:07:00 - [1331] Quote: wow you must fly a deimos all the time to be suck an expert. and a douple damage bonus doesnt do any good when you have a 3km range and are one of the slowest cruiser sized ships in the game Yeah, god forbid that gallente have a ship thats not solo own mobile. HAve you considered that with blasters you can hit 20km with fall off? it does get a fall off bonus for a reason ya know with good skills you can expect almost 1500 m/s out of her wihtout implants... eagle will do 1300 m/s... cerb will do 1350 m/s... yeah seems really slow... And as far as a 3km optimal? tell me what FORCES you to fit blasters? If you don't like a 3 km optimal, you can always fit zomg a rail gun!
Techyon 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.07.18 21:48:00 - [1332] 20km with med blasters? in your dreams maybe. Even with neutron blasters and Null your damage will be 50% or only a bit more than 50% at 10km, at 20km you will miss nearly all shots even with max gunnery and spaceship command skills. (FYI the falloff bonus isn't very spectacular on med blasters) Railguns are not what the ship is meant for, ever read the description? here's a part of it : "Rumor has it Duvolle was contracted by parties unknown to create the ultimate close-range blaster cruiser". Now of course thats not definitive but its a strong indication of the ships role. Furthermore a Deimos with rails isn't actually a very spectacular ship, its dps isn't bad but for it to not be bad you need 250mm rail II's. They're hard to fit so forget a tank. Then there's range which isn't very good either so sniping isn't really a very viable option. Not to mention that other ships like the Cerberus are much more efficient at ranged combat and can actually have a tank in the process. As for the Eagle and the Cerb being slower... Well, they're ships meant for ranged engagements mostly. Of course the Cerb does good at pretty much any range and the Eagle is decent up close. Besides, although the Deimos' speed isn't good at all the biggest problem I have with it personally is the agility and mass. It should just turn a lot faster than it does. And Vaga pilots need not fear, even if the Deimos would receive a buff for speed and agility it would have nothing on a vaga since it'll always lack range because of blasters.
Taguchi Hiroko Xoth Inc Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.18 22:20:00 - [1333] Nobody is really asking for an extra mid slot or anything excess. It's just unreasonable that the t2 ship is actually slower than its t1 counterpart, while its main weapon relies on close range. Makes absolutely no sense. If Boeing makes an upgrade of the F18 to the Pentagon and its actually slower, you think they would get the contract to mass produce?
TitatBPC	Posted - 2007.07.18 22:25:00 - [1334] Originally by: Taguchi Hiroko Nobody is really asking for an extra mid slot or anything excess. It's just unreasonable that the t2 ship is actually slower than its t1 counterpart, while its main weapon relies on close range. Makes absolutely no sense. If Boeing makes an upgrade of the F18 to the Pentagon and its actually slower, you think they would get the contract to mass produce? actually the original f18s where slower/not as much range as the f14
KD.Fluffy The Refugees	Posted - 2007.07.18 22:45:00 - [1335] Quote: 20km with med blasters? in your dreams maybe. Even with neutron blasters and Null your damage will be 50% or only a bit more than 50% at 10km, at 20km you will miss nearly all shots even with max gunnery and spaceship command skills. (FYI the falloff bonus isn't very spectacular on med blasters Have you ever heard of a taranis? If you want to gank really fast ships I suggest you fly wiht a hugin our an inty that can web something long enough for you to get there. I'm sorry but its got plenty of agility to get into blaster range. Its gotta have a draw back for being the highest dps cruiser in the game..... otherwise why fly anything else.
Kunming adeptus gattacus Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.07.18 22:56:00 - [1336] Hehe, yeah 4th mid in exchange of the 5th hi would be nice but a bit over the top.. too much versatility for a ship with so much dmg I gotta admit. Also forget about PG, just max ur skills and everything u need fits, just dont try to fit a med armor rep, you dont have the cap for it anyway! Again we just want speed of thorax and slightly reduced mass (like -150tn or something), with its slow hips this baby is only a liability to a cruiser gang. Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
Xoduse Gallente Beasts of Burden YouWhat	Posted - 2007.07.19 11:21:00 - [1337] All it really needs is a +20m/s speed boost (10m/s more than thorax) and reduced mass... ---------------------------------
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.19 11:39:00 - [1338] signed coz its a bootiful ship GOONIES = OMNIPOTENCE INCARNATE
Antagonistic	Posted - 2007.07.19 12:09:00 - [1339] Give her some love
Krysta Swap	Posted - 2007.07.19 14:03:00 - [1340] Originally by: TitatBPC Originally by: Taguchi Hiroko Nobody is really asking for an extra mid slot or anything excess. It's just unreasonable that the t2 ship is actually slower than its t1 counterpart, while its main weapon relies on close range. Makes absolutely no sense. If Boeing makes an upgrade of the F18 to the Pentagon and its actually slower, you think they would get the contract to mass produce? actually the original f18s where slower/not as much range as the f14 Yehp, which is why the Air Force chose the F16 (Better fighter). Leave it to the Navy to take scraps. :3

Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.19 21:56:00 - [1341] Originally by: fire 59 signed coz its a bootiful ship Yeah it really is... best looker ingame...
Audrea Infortunatus Eventus Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.07.20 01:59:00 - [1342] Still true, after all those years! :( /signed again! If not both, at the very least speed boost is all we ask.. or the aagility. hmm I wasnt active for over half year.. its still Tux in charge of the Deimos? :D Save Tranquility!
Taguchi Hiroko Xoth Inc Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.20 09:27:00 - [1343] /signed
Hephaesteus Gallente	Posted - 2007.07.20 09:51:00 - [1344] I'd give my right arm for a 4th middle, but any boost would be good tbh.
Grytok German Kings OPUS Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.20 11:59:00 - [1345] To make it short, the Deimos has no Fitting-Issues in my Oppinion. Buff the Speed and the agility of this Ship and we're all fine with it. +10 m/sec, -10% Mass! The main-issue I've with the Deimos is, that it takes 3 cycles of MWD (30 seconds!!!) to even reach Top-Speed, which is absolutely horrible, if you've to travel more then 20km to get in optimal range. Make it half that time, and we're there! .
Akiman	Posted - 2007.07.20 12:15:00 - [1346] deimos is only good for taking out tech 1 cruisers and frigs maybe... boost pg...while other tech 2 ships get more higher pg after the patch....deimos only took a few boost mass and speed... i dont need to tell anything right?...
Justice Bringer Minmatar Combined Technologies	Posted - 2007.07.21 21:38:00 - [1347] Originally by: Hephaesteus I'd give my right arm for a 4th middle, but any boost would be good tbh. No need for anything quite so drastic, all you need to do is just get hold of a Vigilant as that has the4th med slot you want.
Ihar Enda Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.07.21 22:26:00 - [1348] Boost teh deimos!!111
twit brent Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.22 03:27:00 - [1349] Battleships own it, battlecruisers own it. Its too slow to hurt anyhting else.
ClarkdaHood Gallente Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.07.22 04:38:00 - [1350] boost the deimos so its actually worth the insane hac prices

Minas Reul Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.07.30 17:48:00 - [1351] With the Khanid Mk2 changes, the deimos will now be by far the slowest HAC at 170m/s, with the average HAC doing 201m/s. Ironically, this stands out because the Sac's speed was increased to make it a better close-range ship. Surely the time is right to admit that the deimos needs attention to be 'the ultimate close range blaster cruiser'?
Streetrip FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.30 18:08:00 - [1352] Originally by: Minas Reul ...Ironically, this stands out because the Sac's speed was increased to make it a better close-range ship. Yeah, i saw this in the Dev Blog too and imediately thought "What about gallente blasterboats like the deimos?
True Ace Gallente Blood Moon Masques Lunar Dominion	Posted - 2007.07.30 18:34:00 - [1353] soo this would make the deimos just about the slowest HAC with the absolute shortest range . lol if it doesnt get a speed boost i want to see a mandatory 80 mil price drop
twit brent Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.30 22:17:00 - [1354] Nos changes do help a bit but the deimos is still very lacking!
ArmyOfMe Exotic Dancers Club	Posted - 2007.07.31 10:11:00 - [1355] give it a agility boost now please and keep this thread at the top
n0thing omen.	Posted - 2007.07.31 10:24:00 - [1356] Originally by: ArmyOfMe give it a agility boost now please and keep this thread at the top seconded. Its slowest T2 ship that is meant to be ultimate close-range ship. Thats just...wrong ---
Phlegma Kars OMNYX Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2007.07.31 10:43:00 - [1357] Singed for Speed/Agility and PWG From Dev Blog: "The improved speed and mass helps getting the ship in close, though it remains slightly worse than for the Zealot. The armor resistance and capacitor recharge bonuses allow the Sacrilege to field a very hard tank, which helps it to compete against blaster ships (with its relatively lower damage output)." Is that a mocking? Deimos is too slow for close range HAC. Deimos dont have PWG to fit a decent tank. Plate makes Deimos even more slow and less agile.
Ione Hunt 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.07.31 10:51:00 - [1358] Before that nerf the Deimos was already dead and burried. This patch is as if you're digging up the grave, ****ing on the half-rotten corpse, and burrying it again. At least the Deimos looks cool, it's all about the looks anyway _______________
DarkXenon	Posted - 2007.07.31 11:35:00 - [1359] Now that the mark II changes are being implemented I want to get in close and personal and show them whos the close range kings! Thing is Deimos sucks big time and the main reason people fly it is the 'living on the edge' feeling you get as soon as you buckle up. Give it more PG please! More Cap wouldnt go a miss either The Deimos is going to be even more underpowered once these changes take affect!
Khorian Gallente Excidium.	Posted - 2007.07.31 11:58:00 - [1360] Developer: Duvolle Labs Rumor has it Duvolle was contracted by parties unknown to create the ultimate close-range blaster cruiser. In this their engineers and designers haven't failed Yes, they did :P

Kerdrak 3B Legio IX Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.31 12:29:00 - [1361] Instead whining why you don't use your brain to fit a ship? I see this thread stupid. Zealot have issues too that you have to deal WITH RIGS to do an "max performance setup". Example: HIGH-SLOTS : - [ 195 \| 26] Heavy Neutron Blaster II - [ 195 \| 26] Heavy Neutron Blaster II - [ 195 \| 26] Heavy Neutron Blaster II - [ 195 \| 26] Heavy Neutron Blaster II - [ 195 \| 26] Heavy Neutron Blaster II - [ 0 \| 0] Empty Slot MED-SLOTS : - [ 165 \| 50] 10MN MicroWarpdrive II - [ 1 \| 22] Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I - [ 1 \| 44] Warp Disruptor II LOW-SLOTS : - [ 173 \| 28] Medium Armor Repairer II - [ 1 \| 30] Damage Control II - [ 1 \| 44] Armor Explosive Hardener II - [ 1 \| 30] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II - [ 1 \| 30] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II - [ 1 \| 0] Adaptive Nano Plating II RIG-SLOTS <- this is what you need ~~~~~~~~~~~~ - [ 100] Ancillary Current Router I - [ 100] Ancillary Current Router I Armor HP : 2550.0 Armor EM : 70.46 % Armor Explo : 69.69 % Armor Kinetic : 88.17 % Armor Thermal : 76.35 % Zealot have to use 2xCCC to have a similar setup... ________________________________________
n0thing omen.	Posted - 2007.07.31 12:52:00 - [1362] Ok, so Zealot benefits from 2x CCC by having more cap, and Deimos needs an RCU analog rigs to even fit its setup. Its like needing 2 RCU to fit a standart setup on a ship? Moreover, you just didnt get the idea of the thread. The Deimos being closest range T2 cruiser, has the worst speed. Zealot being long range even has more speed. Get the idea? ---
Taguchi Hiroko Xoth Inc Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.31 12:57:00 - [1363] Originally by: Kerdrak Instead whining why you don't use your brain to fit a ship? I see this thread stupid. Zealot have issues too that you have to deal WITH RIGS to do an "max performance setup". Example: HIGH-SLOTS : - [ 195 \| 26] Heavy Neutron Blaster II - [ 195 \| 26] Heavy Neutron Blaster II - [ 195 \| 26] Heavy Neutron Blaster II - [ 195 \| 26] Heavy Neutron Blaster II - [ 195 \| 26] Heavy Neutron Blaster II - [ 0 \| 0] Empty Slot MED-SLOTS : - [ 165 \| 50] 10MN MicroWarpdrive II - [ 1 \| 22] Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I - [ 1 \| 44] Warp Disruptor II LOW-SLOTS : - [ 173 \| 28] Medium Armor Repairer II - [ 1 \| 30] Damage Control II - [ 1 \| 44] Armor Explosive Hardener II - [ 1 \| 30] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II - [ 1 \| 30] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II - [ 1 \| 0] Adaptive Nano Plating II RIG-SLOTS <- this is what you need ~~~~~~~~~~~~ - [ 100] Ancillary Current Router I - [ 100] Ancillary Current Router I Armor HP : 2550.0 Armor EM : 70.46 % Armor Explo : 69.69 % Armor Kinetic : 88.17 % Armor Thermal : 76.35 % Zealot have to use 2xCCC to have a similar setup... terrible setup. you will be outta cap in 3 vollys, with absolutely nothing left for the tank.
Aston Gulliver Gallente Kudzu Collective Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.07.31 13:04:00 - [1364] Originally by: Streetrip Originally by: Minas Reul ...Ironically, this stands out because the Sac's speed was increased to make it a better close-range ship. Yeah, i saw this in the Dev Blog too and imediately thought "What about gallente blasterboats like the deimos? The truth hurts.
Kerdrak 3B Legio IX Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.31 13:09:00 - [1365] Originally by: Taguchi Hiroko terrible setup. you will be outta cap in 3 vollys, with absolutely nothing left for the tank. Only if you repair + shoot, Exactly as the Zealot (with cap rigs). In gangs where you are not -suposely- tanking all the time is perfect. ________________________________________
Ione Hunt 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.07.31 13:36:00 - [1366] Originally by: Kerdrak Originally by: Taguchi Hiroko terrible setup. you will be outta cap in 3 vollys, with absolutely nothing left for the tank. Only if you repair + shoot, Exactly as the Zealot (with cap rigs). In gangs where you are not -suposely- tanking all the time is perfect. I don't care about the Deimos' cap/grid tbh, but what bothers me is that by the time I catch up with other ships I have only <50% cap left to fire my guns. All the enemy needs is either a good tank or 1 nos and I'll be just sitting there capless. Solution: Make the Deimos more agile and faster so I can catch up to targets BEFORE being almost out of cap. I can live with the fact that I won't be able to fit the highest grade guns (Neutrons), but not that I'm slower than ANY OTHER HAC even though I'm the only one who really needs to get close and personal. As it stands every other HAC can just make circles around me while I cap out trying to approach them (which will never happen 'cause I'm slower even with MWD). _______________
Kerdrak 3B Legio IX Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.31 13:44:00 - [1367] Originally by: Ione Hunt Originally by: Kerdrak Originally by: Taguchi Hiroko terrible setup. you will be outta cap in 3 vollys, with absolutely nothing left for the tank. Only if you repair + shoot, Exactly as the Zealot (with cap rigs). In gangs where you are not -suposely- tanking all the time is perfect. I don't care about the Deimos' cap/grid tbh, but what bothers me is that by the time I catch up with other ships I have only <50% cap left to fire my guns. All the enemy needs is either a good tank or 1 nos and I'll be just sitting there capless. Solution: Make the Deimos more agile and faster so I can catch up to targets BEFORE being almost out of cap. I can live with the fact that I won't be able to fit the highest grade guns (Neutrons), but not that I'm slower than ANY OTHER HAC even though I'm the only one who really needs to get close and personal. As it stands every other HAC can just make circles around me while I cap out trying to approach them (which will never happen 'cause I'm slower even with MWD). More agility/speed make sense to me, not more "power" to be another gallente solopwnmobile. So yes, whine for more speed/agility, not for more guns/tank/destruction ________________________________________
ArmyOfMe Exotic Dancers Club	Posted - 2007.07.31 13:45:00 - [1368] had a nice talk on sisi with a dev just now so there is a slight hope. CCP Keridwen > this is silly CCP Keridwen > the deimos speed compared to the other ones !FIX! CCP Keridwen > fix suggestion submitted \o/ CCP Keridwen > now lets see what happens
Plagiatum	Posted - 2007.07.31 14:00:00 - [1369] agree, more speed and agility, not grid. also abit more cpu wouldnt hurt.
Lucus Ranger Gallente Infortunatus Eventus Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.07.31 14:15:00 - [1370] Originally by: ArmyOfMe had a nice talk on sisi with a dev just now so there is a slight hope. CCP Keridwen > this is silly CCP Keridwen > the deimos speed compared to the other ones !FIX! CCP Keridwen > fix suggestion submitted \o/ CCP Keridwen > now lets see what happens /Lucus Ranger cross's fingers and toes in hope! /Prince of Darkness at your service.. Disclaimer: None of my ideas or posting reflects my Alliance/Corp in any way

n0thing omen.	Posted - 2007.07.31 14:28:00 - [1371] Originally by: Lucus Ranger Originally by: ArmyOfMe had a nice talk on sisi with a dev just now so there is a slight hope. CCP Keridwen > this is silly CCP Keridwen > the deimos speed compared to the other ones !FIX! CCP Keridwen > fix suggestion submitted \o/ CCP Keridwen > now lets see what happens /Lucus Ranger cross's fingers and toes in hope! Omg, win! Thorax with MWD can run away from its t2 variant, lol ---
Taguchi Hiroko Xoth Inc Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.31 14:28:00 - [1372] Originally by: ArmyOfMe had a nice talk on sisi with a dev just now so there is a slight hope. CCP Keridwen > this is silly CCP Keridwen > the deimos speed compared to the other ones !FIX! CCP Keridwen > fix suggestion submitted \o/ CCP Keridwen > now lets see what happens \o/
Grytok German Kings OPUS Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.31 14:36:00 - [1373] 10 m/sec more base-speed and 15% more agility, and the Deimos would be fine. I'd even pay the speed and agility with a reduction of structure by 500 HP. .
n0thing omen.	Posted - 2007.07.31 15:23:00 - [1374] Originally by: Grytok 10 m/sec more base-speed and 15% more agility, and the Deimos would be fine. I'd even pay the speed and agility with a reduction of structure by 500 HP. Yep, however Id say 10m/s more speed from the original Thorax counter-part and 15% more agility from the original Thorax counterpart. ---
Hailstorm Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.31 18:00:00 - [1375] Hell, I'd trade that useless sixth hi-slot for some more speed and agility.
n0thing omen.	Posted - 2007.07.31 18:17:00 - [1376] Originally by: Hailstorm Hell, I'd trade that useless sixth hi-slot for some more speed and agility. 6th high slot for 4th med then. Tbh, 5 turrets and 1 small neut/nosf? You cant fit much into 6th slot anyways, and you still keep dps. ---
Kunming The Coalition Of Buccaneers Mercenary Services	Posted - 2007.07.31 18:27:00 - [1377] Just speed and agility, thats all we ask for. You can pull off some crazy tricks with the deimos and with the NOS nerf there is not really a need for cap booster and 4th med, small nos is really fine tbh. Speed and agility CCP, even with snakes an overdrive and 2 polycarbon rigs you wander around 2,8km/s. 1,5km/s without any implants, rigs and speed mods and u need 3 cycles to reach max speed, pretty pathetic really. Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
un5een Cataclysm Enterprises Kraftwerk.	Posted - 2007.07.31 19:25:00 - [1378] ok, now its enough! i was on sisi and got blown out of a deimos 5 times a row by a sacri and just killed it once... neutron gank - failed ion gank/tank - failed x2 (once more gank once more tank) electron tank - failed ion tank+speed - failed 5 x 250mm t2, 3 x magstabs + speedmods in lows - suc K ess hell this is a blasterboat, isnt it? the ULTIMATE blasterboat... sure the new sacri is nice and khanid ships needed love, but this is a JOKE! dunno where, maybe in the devblog, was stated that the sacri received the basespeed boost to get itself into ham range. hell everytime i tried the blaster fittings he just speeded away from me, other way around his 24km warp disrupt gave him enough room to turn on me again when i wanted to make a run and he wasnt speed fitted but all out tank... from deimos discription: Sharing more tactical elements with smaller vessels than with its size-class counterparts, the Deimos represents the final word in up-close-and-personal cruiser combat. Venture too close to this one, and swift death is your only guarantee. i dont see tactical elements and i dont see a final word besides getting killed :-/ ----------------------------------------------- there are 6 million ways to die... chose one! - i chose LAG Kraftwerk
KD.Fluffy The Refugees	Posted - 2007.07.31 20:16:00 - [1379] Quote: ok, now its enough! i was on sisi and got blown out of a deimos 5 times a row by a sacri and just killed it once... neutron gank - failed ion gank/tank - failed x2 (once more gank once more tank) electron tank - failed ion tank+speed - failed 5 x 250mm t2, 3 x magstabs + speedmods in lows - suc K ess hell this is a blasterboat, isnt it? the ULTIMATE blasterboat... sure the new sacri is nice and khanid ships needed love, but this is a JOKE! dunno where, maybe in the devblog, was stated that the sacri received the basespeed boost to get itself into ham range. hell everytime i tried the blaster fittings he just speeded away from me, other way around his 24km warp disrupt gave him enough room to turn on me again when i wanted to make a run and he wasnt speed fitted but all out tank... from deimos discription: Sharing more tactical elements with smaller vessels than with its size-class counterparts, the Deimos represents the final word in up-close-and-personal cruiser combat. Venture too close to this one, and swift death is your only guarantee. i dont see tactical elements and i dont see a final word besides getting killed :-/ Yeah the sacrilidge is pretty broken in its curretn forum. I'd really like to see caldari missle ships get their mass and agility unnerfed now that amarr have this uber missle boat. To me, it seems only fair. Though I don't expect any caldari love from ccp i'll just keep training my gallente skills while I say good bye to caldari.
LUH 3471	Posted - 2007.07.31 20:49:00 - [1380] /signed fix the deimos

Orga Azmaat Minmatar Xenobytes Stain Empire	Posted - 2007.07.31 21:13:00 - [1381] Erm.... Who said "the ultimate close-range blaster cruiser" ? Can you fix deimos? please.
Teeth Minmatar Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.31 21:14:00 - [1382] Good GOD let there be some light on this ship. It's been said over and over... yet I still see nothing in the way of getting it fixed. It would be nice to at least get a "we'll look into this or kiss our butts". Anyway another vote in the way of 'PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO SOMETHING WITH THIS SHIP!
ArmyOfMe Exotic Dancers Club	Posted - 2007.07.31 21:15:00 - [1383] now that they are looking into it i guess all we need to do is wait and hope
lyrenna Caldari The Renaissance	Posted - 2007.07.31 21:43:00 - [1384] signed, its realy need a fix even 4th med or/and some little powergrind, some agilty mass love, deimos needs love, give what he deserve. === when you armor tank a raven god kills a kitten. ===
Taguchi Hiroko Xoth Inc Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.31 23:14:00 - [1385] Edited by: Taguchi Hiroko on 31/07/2007 23:17:08 Edited by: Taguchi Hiroko on 31/07/2007 23:15:12 Originally by: un5een from deimos discription: Sharing more tactical elements with smaller vessels than with its size-class counterparts, the Deimos represents the final word in up-close-and-personal cruiser combat. Venture too close to this one, and swift death is your only guarantee. i dont see tactical elements and i dont see a final word besides getting killed :-/ Perhaps the "tactical element" it shares with smaller ships is its ability to get killed easily, the "final word" is the `ah crap' it gets out before it fires its first volley as it finally gets "too close" to the target.
twit brent Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.08.01 02:03:00 - [1386] Edited by: twit brent on 01/08/2007 02:06:42 I dont know which dev decided to make it do less than 25% more dmg than the thorax (and thats at HAC V) and also make it slower and fatter, but i realy want to slap them in the face.
oniplE NED-Clan R i s e	Posted - 2007.08.01 13:43:00 - [1387] Apart from the obvious speed increase, it also needs more cpu and/or grid. I did some math and compared all the hacs to eachother (excluding ishtar due to the fact that its main weapons do not use cpu or grid), and their T1 counterparts to see how much extra gid and cpu they all get extra. (percentage wise) Deimos has the 2nd worst increase in CPU Deimos has the 3rd worst increase in grid (2nd worst atm, 3rd worst after Khanid MKII) Deimos has the worst average increase in CPU/grid Here are the numbers: Deimos gets 15.9% more powergrid than the thorax. The average PG increase of T1 to HAC is: 23.1% Deimos gets 16.7% more CPU than the thorax. The average CPU increase of T1 to HAC is: 24.8% "So what, just a couple percent?" It looks like just a little bit, but if you look at the % of increase you will see its not: Deimos gets 32.2% less PG increase than the average HAC Deimos gets 32.6% less CPU increase than the average HAC Why does the Deimos get so little extra grid and cpu? Is it because the blasters are much more fitting friendly than the other weaponsystems? No they are not, they're actually one of the least fitting friendly weapons for HAC's. (Only 250mm Railgun II's on an Eagle are worse) I can understand the small increase in CPU on the Deimos, but the powergrid increase is just sad for weapons that require a lot of powergrid. I suggest giving the Deimos atleast 990 powergrid and 360 CPU. This will bring it closer to the other HAC's, but still under the average increase. Another possibility is to add a -5% per level PG consumption for MWD's next to the MWD cap bonus. This will push the Deimos even more into a blaster role and will also result in an effective powergrid increase.
ArmyOfMe Exotic Dancers Club	Posted - 2007.08.01 14:43:00 - [1388] tbh i can live without any buff to the grid and cpu of the deimos as long as speed/agility gets a boost. the deimos has pretty sick dps for a hac, so giving a boost to grid/cpu so we can fit neutrons would make it to powerful imo.
oniplE NED-Clan R i s e	Posted - 2007.08.01 16:03:00 - [1389] Edited by: oniplE on 01/08/2007 16:03:18 Originally by: ArmyOfMe tbh i can live without any buff to the grid and cpu of the deimos as long as speed/agility gets a boost. the deimos has pretty sick dps for a hac, so giving a boost to grid/cpu so we can fit neutrons would make it to powerful imo. You can fit neutrons right now, 5 neutrons and a t1 MWD will leave you with 83.5 powergrid if you have AWU 5. If you add an extra 40 (50 with engineering 5) powergrid, it still cant fit a medium repper and the tank will still be weak. It will still have to trade in its tank to do the maximum amount of damage.
Vaygrr	Posted - 2007.08.02 01:29:00 - [1390] /signed. Two options: 1. more grid & agility; 2. more agility, strip the 6th low and add a med.

Angus Torg	Posted - 2007.08.02 14:08:00 - [1391] /signed once again. Can we get EVE back? Please.
LUH 3471	Posted - 2007.08.02 14:33:00 - [1392] /signed
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.08.02 17:15:00 - [1393] Edited by: Goumindong on 02/08/2007 17:16:31 Originally by: twit brent Edited by: twit brent on 01/08/2007 02:06:42 I dont know which dev decided to make it do less than 25% more dmg than the thorax (and thats at HAC V) and also make it slower and fatter, but i realy want to slap them in the face. All HACS only get 25% gun dps than their cruiser counterpart except the Ishtar, Sacriledge[current], and Vagabond[which get 25% more than the Rupture] Also, The deimos has a speed boost to 205m/s and mass reduction to 11m kg on sisi.
Hailstorm Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.08.02 18:16:00 - [1394] Confirmed on sisi; Base speed 205 m/s Mass 11m kg. Also, pg bumped up from 950 to 990.
oniplE NED-Clan R i s e	Posted - 2007.08.02 18:19:00 - [1395] Edited by: oniplE on 02/08/2007 18:20:21 Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 02/08/2007 17:16:31 Originally by: twit brent Edited by: twit brent on 01/08/2007 02:06:42 I dont know which dev decided to make it do less than 25% more dmg than the thorax (and thats at HAC V) and also make it slower and fatter, but i realy want to slap them in the face. All HACS only get 25% gun dps than their cruiser counterpart except the Ishtar, Sacriledge[current], and Vagabond[which get 25% more than the Rupture] Also, The deimos has a speed boost to 205m/s and mass reduction to 11m kg on sisi. It also has 990 powergrid ^^ Awesome development, lets hope it will make its way to TQ soon enough :)
Spoony Brook The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.08.02 18:29:00 - [1396] Edited by: Spoony Brook on 02/08/2007 18:30:09 Originally by: oniplE Edited by: oniplE on 02/08/2007 18:20:21 Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 02/08/2007 17:16:31 Originally by: twit brent Edited by: twit brent on 01/08/2007 02:06:42 I dont know which dev decided to make it do less than 25% more dmg than the thorax (and thats at HAC V) and also make it slower and fatter, but i realy want to slap them in the face. All HACS only get 25% gun dps than their cruiser counterpart except the Ishtar, Sacriledge[current], and Vagabond[which get 25% more than the Rupture] Also, The deimos has a speed boost to 205m/s and mass reduction to 11m kg on sisi. It also has 990 powergrid ^^ Awesome development, lets hope it will make its way to TQ soon enough :) they actually listened? ---------------
Ihar Enda Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.08.02 18:35:00 - [1397] Edited by: Ihar Enda on 02/08/2007 18:35:58 Originally by: Hailstorm Confirmed on sisi; Base speed 205 m/s Mass 11m kg. Also, pg bumped up from 950 to 990. Holy crap. Now only change 1 high into a med slot (yeah I know I'm getting greedy ).
Grytok German Kings OPUS Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.02 19:56:00 - [1398] Originally by: Hailstorm Confirmed on sisi; Base speed 205 m/s Mass 11m kg. Also, pg bumped up from 950 to 990. \o/ I could've lived without the plus of powergrid, but I'll take it .
Segmentor Ultraviolent.	Posted - 2007.08.02 20:01:00 - [1399] Well whew, it only took them 47 pages to realize that we actually mean it! -
ArmyOfMe Exotic Dancers Club	Posted - 2007.08.02 20:22:00 - [1400] Originally by: Segmentor Well whew, it only took them 47 pages to realize that we actually mean it! now imagine how much faster this would have gone if we had just talked to the devs on sisi sooner rather then just whine on the forums

Plave Okice Naughty 40 Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.02 20:30:00 - [1401] Please, please, please let this happen
Plave Okice Naughty 40 Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.02 21:13:00 - [1402] Quick play Sure is faster :D It's not going to be a new Vaga, but it gives us a ship it always should have been.
Grytok German Kings OPUS Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.02 21:36:00 - [1403] What speed you get, when you fit standard-lows? I would'nt go without a tank tho P.S.: I'm too lazy to go on SiSi myself atm .
Akiman Gallente Omega Enterprises Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.08.02 21:40:00 - [1404] YYYEESSSS!!!1one! tho...whats with the pg...990...how bout 999.9 lol
Plave Okice Naughty 40 Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.02 21:44:00 - [1405] Originally by: Grytok What speed you get, when you fit standard-lows? I would'nt go without a tank tho I doubt I would either, I was just playing around, not a seriously proposed setup
Kai Lae Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.08.02 22:24:00 - [1406] Ok what do we have to do to get the utility high moved to a mid (aka, who does the bribery money go to). Raptor and Ares Fix
twit brent Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.08.02 22:24:00 - [1407] Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 02/08/2007 17:16:31 Originally by: twit brent Edited by: twit brent on 01/08/2007 02:06:42 I dont know which dev decided to make it do less than 25% more dmg than the thorax (and thats at HAC V) and also make it slower and fatter, but i realy want to slap them in the face. All HACS only get 25% gun dps than their cruiser counterpart except the Ishtar, Sacriledge[current], and Vagabond[which get 25% more than the Rupture] Also, The deimos has a speed boost to 205m/s and mass reduction to 11m kg on sisi. Yeah a fir chunk of thoraxes DPS comes from its drones so overall its less than a 25% DPS boost. But anyway wooohoo for changes and its about damn time.
Dash Ripcock 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.08.03 00:14:00 - [1408] Edited by: Dash Ripcock on 03/08/2007 00:17:47 One year and nine months later, it finally looks like the ship we were after. Thank you CCP, now I have something to run around in apart from my Astarte. Bring on the Deimos baby... P.S. Anyone have spares? Outbreak - The Movie
CherniyVolk	Posted - 2007.08.03 02:01:00 - [1409] I CAN'T WAIT!!!! To launch eve, and it tell me my build is out of date and I need to download the latest patch... Oh man, I wish it would happen tonight.
Lord MuffloN Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.08.03 02:05:00 - [1410] I first bought 1, then 2 more, then 2 more again, because seriously, there's gonna be a price gauge on these now :P

Spoony Brook The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.08.03 02:09:00 - [1411] /me pats his 60 mill deimos from contracts from 3 months ago... ---------------
Anope High4Life Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.06 09:07:00 - [1412] Edited by: Anope on 06/08/2007 09:07:15 Finally! A goal after Assault frigates... A Deimos, thanks CCP for buff! --------
Rainsdon Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.08.13 20:07:00 - [1413] Been playing around on it on SiSi... I can now switch between the BEagle for longer battles and the Deimos for short and steady battles. Much wub CCP <3 --------------------
Anope High4Life Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.24 02:15:00 - [1414] Edited by: Anope on 24/08/2007 02:16:07 so whens this update expected? =====
Cyan Nuevo Dudes In Crazy Killing Ships	Posted - 2007.08.24 04:21:00 - [1415] Edited by: Cyan Nuevo on 24/08/2007 04:21:02 Before the end of the month... next week, I guess? --- Proud Amarr pilot.
Djerin Obsidian Exploration Services	Posted - 2007.08.24 10:15:00 - [1416] Edited by: Djerin on 24/08/2007 10:15:39 Originally by: Anope Edited by: Anope on 24/08/2007 02:16:07 so whens this update expected? ===== Linkage ---- Sarmaul's crosstrainorgtfo
Taguchi Hiroko Xoth Inc Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.08.28 22:13:00 - [1417] thanks CCP.
Victor Emmanuel	Posted - 2007.12.13 03:33:00 - [1418] So, any reviews on the updated Deimos? :)
Captain Zanarkand	Posted - 2007.12.14 04:05:00 - [1419] areeeeeeeded
Ditadit	Posted - 2007.12.24 13:57:00 - [1420] This is how I fit my Deimos for 0.0 raids. Unrigged version 4 T2 Electrons. 1 T2 Ion. 1 Proto cloak 1 T2 MWD 1 T2 Med Cap booster w/ cap800's 1 T2 Warp disruptor 2 Med armor repairers 2 T2 Mag field satbs 1 N-type explosive hardener 1 T2 Damage contril unit 5 T2 hammerheads. Adding one pg rig allows to trade 2 electrons for 2 ions. I'm not a fan of Ions and neutrons since the damage difference isn't very big. An ion blaster deals 7% more damage than an electron blaster. The neutron blaster deals 14% more damage than an electron, but fitting these can force you to drop the cap injector and the second med repper. These two last modules can significantly increase your chances of survival on the field.

Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising	Posted - 2008.01.04 03:24:00 - [1421] I think they should fix amarr first. Like the zealot. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Sonja Vladomirovic	Posted - 2008.01.04 12:29:00 - [1422] Oh DAMN, I have to recalculate my comparison between the Brutix and the Deimos, but that's great. Thats me ship, me favorite.


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SMACKING IN A TOPIC NEAR YOU / WTS PILGRIM + CURSE + T2 DRONES PACKS

SMACKING IN A TOPIC NEAR YOU / WTS PILGRIM + CURSE + T2 DRONES PACKS

SMACKING IN A TOPIC NEAR YOU / WTS PILGRIM + CURSE + T2 DRONES PACKS

R.I.P. Deimos