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Deimos: The Ugly Duckling

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Gary Goat	Posted - 2006.03.30 11:36:00 - [421] Bump Devs please read
Kellyl	Posted - 2006.03.30 12:51:00 - [422] Post keeps slipping off the front page :( Up, Up ^^
Techyon	Posted - 2006.03.30 13:08:00 - [423] Edited by: Techyon on 30/03/2006 13:12:35 Originally by: Tuxford Didn't know Deimos needed love but it should be easier to fix after blaster love. No disrespect but do you people even fly ships like the Deimos in 'Tranquility like' combat situations ? And I don't mean a few test... no, some real fights.. I'd assume you do actually test them, but then I'd assume you'd agree with the Deimos needing some love, thus I question it. ------
Miklas Laces	Posted - 2006.03.30 13:24:00 - [424] Some more evidence: Linkage Deimos has the worst radius, the lowest speed, the worst fitting increases from T1 cruiser both in powergrid and cpu, also it's the most cap hungry and has the lowest range.
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.30 14:56:00 - [425] Originally by: Techyon Originally by: Tuxford Didn't know Deimos needed love but it should be easier to fix after blaster love. No disrespect but do you people even fly ships like the Deimos in 'Tranquility like' combat situations ? And I don't mean a few test... no, some real fights.. I'd assume you do actually test them, but then I'd assume you'd agree with the Deimos needing some love, thus I question it. When/where did Tuxford say that? Originally by: Miklas Laces Some more evidence: Linkage Deimos has the worst radius, the lowest speed, the worst fitting increases from T1 cruiser both in powergrid and cpu, also it's the most cap hungry and has the lowest range. Note that in those situations the Deimos is carrying an Afterburner to actually fit the Ion Blasters, and that it doesn't take into account that whilst you're on the approach they're beating the living hell out of you. Save The Deimos
Spartan239	Posted - 2006.03.30 15:02:00 - [426] Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: Techyon Originally by: Tuxford Didn't know Deimos needed love but it should be easier to fix after blaster love. No disrespect but do you people even fly ships like the Deimos in 'Tranquility like' combat situations ? And I don't mean a few test... no, some real fights.. I'd assume you do actually test them, but then I'd assume you'd agree with the Deimos needing some love, thus I question it. When/where did Tuxford say that? Originally by: Miklas Laces Some more evidence: Linkage Deimos has the worst radius, the lowest speed, the worst fitting increases from T1 cruiser both in powergrid and cpu, also it's the most cap hungry and has the lowest range. Note that in those situations the Deimos is carrying an Afterburner to actually fit the Ion Blasters, and that it doesn't take into account that whilst you're on the approach they're beating the living hell out of you. tuxford says: deimos boost and ab on deimos?
Miklas Laces	Posted - 2006.03.30 15:03:00 - [427] Originally by: Dash Ripcock Note that in those situations the Deimos is carrying an Afterburner to actually fit the Ion Blasters, and that it doesn't take into account that whilst you're on the approach they're beating the living hell out of you. I used the AB because I wanted to compare similar setups for all ships. If you want to fit Mwd then you have to drop the Ions and fit Electrons (less damage and shorter range). Or you fit AB and waste 1 ship bonus. Also note that the Deimos is the only hac that have to waste a slot on a RCU to fit standard stuff (well below standard if you want MWD). One thing I don't agree is the complain about Deimos clumsiness. All hacs have the same agility (0.65)
Gariuys	Posted - 2006.03.30 15:07:00 - [428] Originally by: Miklas Laces Originally by: Dash Ripcock Note that in those situations the Deimos is carrying an Afterburner to actually fit the Ion Blasters, and that it doesn't take into account that whilst you're on the approach they're beating the living hell out of you. I used the AB because I wanted to compare similar setups for all ships. If you want to fit Mwd then you have to drop the Ions and fit Electrons (less damage and shorter range). Or you fit AB and waste 1 ship bonus. Also note that the Deimos is the only hac that have to waste a slot on a RCU to fit standard stuff (well below standard if you want MWD). One thing I don't agree is the complain about Deimos clumsiness. All hacs have the same agility (0.65) Yes, but deimos has high mass and low speed, for its role. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Spartan239	Posted - 2006.03.30 15:12:00 - [429] Originally by: Miklas Laces Originally by: Dash Ripcock Note that in those situations the Deimos is carrying an Afterburner to actually fit the Ion Blasters, and that it doesn't take into account that whilst you're on the approach they're beating the living hell out of you. I used the AB because I wanted to compare similar setups for all ships. If you want to fit Mwd then you have to drop the Ions and fit Electrons (less damage and shorter range). Or you fit AB and waste 1 ship bonus. Also note that the Deimos is the only hac that have to waste a slot on a RCU to fit standard stuff (well below standard if you want MWD). One thing I don't agree is the complain about Deimos clumsiness. All hacs have the same agility (0.65) munnin has to do it to, its in the same boat is teh deimos
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.30 15:20:00 - [430] Edited by: Dash Ripcock on 30/03/2006 15:21:56 Originally by: Miklas Laces Originally by: Dash Ripcock Note that in those situations the Deimos is carrying an Afterburner to actually fit the Ion Blasters, and that it doesn't take into account that whilst you're on the approach they're beating the living hell out of you. I used the AB because I wanted to compare similar setups for all ships. If you want to fit Mwd then you have to drop the Ions and fit Electrons (less damage and shorter range). Or you fit AB and waste 1 ship bonus. Also note that the Deimos is the only hac that have to waste a slot on a RCU to fit standard stuff (well below standard if you want MWD). One thing I don't agree is the complain about Deimos clumsiness. All hacs have the same agility (0.65) I'm not criticising the fact you use an Afterburner, I am merely using it as an example to highlight where the ship is lacking. You waste a bonus and a lot of speed so you can use Ion Blaster IIs and a standard tank. Concerning agility - it's the mass and velocity, coupled with signature radius. I know for a fact that my Zealot is faster and as agile as my Deimos with a 1600mm plate fitted. If the Deimos is going to be such a sitting duck on the approach, at least make her maximum velocity and fitting more lenient. P.S. Better yet, just leave her velocity and signature radius the same as a Thorax. The Thorax has the same MWD bonus as the Deimos, so why does the latter receive such a heavy penalty? That's like saying the Vagabond should be slower than a Stabber because of its velocity bonus. Oh wait. Its' not. Save The Deimos
Miklas Laces	Posted - 2006.03.30 15:23:00 - [431] Originally by: Spartan239 munnin has to do it to, its in the same boat is teh deimos No. Deimos needs a RCU to fit its worst turrets (Electron) Muninn can fit the mid ones (220mm) without needing RCU, and still have plenty of unused powergrid.
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.30 15:30:00 - [432] That brings me onto an interesting point. Quote: Special Ability: 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret firing speed per level and 5% bonus to max velocity per level. Stabber Velocity = 235ms Vagabond Velocity = 242ms Quote: Special Ability: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage per level and 5% less penalty to max capacitor for MicroWarpdrive usage per level. Thorax Velocity/Signature Radius = 180/140 Deimos Velocity/Signature Radius = 170/160 So, the Stabber gets a velocity bonus that the Vagabond inherits and improves upon by having a higher velocity. Meanwhile the Thorax and Deimos share the same MWD bonus, yet the Deimos loses velocity and gains signature radius? Why exactly? Why should she penalised over a ship bonus whereby the Vagabond actually boosts it? Save The Deimos
Spartan239	Posted - 2006.03.30 15:32:00 - [433] Originally by: Miklas Laces Originally by: Spartan239 munnin has to do it to, its in the same boat is teh deimos No. Deimos needs a RCU to fit its worst turrets (Electron) Muninn can fit the mid ones (220mm) without needing RCU, and still have plenty of unused powergrid. try 720's 220's on a munnin is like 250's on a deimos
The Cold	Posted - 2006.03.30 15:41:00 - [434] Cry me a river, then give a zealot a drone bay
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.30 15:43:00 - [435] Originally by: The Cold Cry me a river, then give a zealot a drone bay No. Why? Here. Save The Deimos
The Cold	Posted - 2006.03.30 15:55:00 - [436] Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: The Cold Cry me a river, then give a zealot a drone bay No. Why? Here. So you want to dish out +800dps have infinite cap and tank like a mother****** while you're at it?
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.30 16:03:00 - [437] Originally by: The Cold Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: The Cold Cry me a river, then give a zealot a drone bay No. Why? Here. So you want to dish out +800dps have infinite cap and tank like a mother**** while you're at it? Okay, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're not an alt attempting to create flames in a well-established thread. Give me good reason why the Deimos should not be able to fit Ion IIs and have the same agility as the Thorax given all of the statistics mentioned so far. Nobody mentioned anywhere that they wanted the Deimos to have "800dps, infinite cap and tank like a mother***". Save The Deimos
The Cold	Posted - 2006.03.30 16:05:00 - [438] Originally by: Spartan239 Originally by: Miklas Laces Originally by: Spartan239 munnin has to do it to, its in the same boat is teh deimos No. Deimos needs a RCU to fit its worst turrets (Electron) Muninn can fit the mid ones (220mm) without needing RCU, and still have plenty of unused powergrid. try 720's 220's on a munnin is like 250's on a deimos Spartan, i've noticed that 80% people in this thread have no clue whatsoever
The Cold	Posted - 2006.03.30 16:07:00 - [439] Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: The Cold Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: The Cold Cry me a river, then give a zealot a drone bay No. Why? Here. So you want to dish out +800dps have infinite cap and tank like a mother**** while you're at it? Okay, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're not an alt attempting to create flames in a well-established thread. Give me good reason why the Deimos should not be able to fit Ion IIs and have the same agility as the Thorax given all of the statistics mentioned so far. Nobody mentioned anywhere that they wanted the Deimos to have "800dps, infinite cap and tank like a mother***". Because a zealot has 4 turret slots? Oh and that extra armor and t2 components add mass to the ship, but amarr engineers knew how to overcome this
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.30 16:09:00 - [440] Originally by: The Cold Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: The Cold Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: The Cold Cry me a river, then give a zealot a drone bay No. Why? Here. So you want to dish out +800dps have infinite cap and tank like a mother**** while you're at it? Okay, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're not an alt attempting to create flames in a well-established thread. Give me good reason why the Deimos should not be able to fit Ion IIs and have the same agility as the Thorax given all of the statistics mentioned so far. Nobody mentioned anywhere that they wanted the Deimos to have "800dps, infinite cap and tank like a mother***". Because a zealot has 4 turret slots? Oh and that extra armor and t2 components add mass to the ship, but amarr engineers knew how to overcome this Well we agree on one thing - the Gallente scientists who designed the Deimos need to look for new jobs. Save The Deimos
The Cold	Posted - 2006.03.30 16:12:00 - [441] Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: The Cold Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: The Cold Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: The Cold Cry me a river, then give a zealot a drone bay No. Why? Here. So you want to dish out +800dps have infinite cap and tank like a mother**** while you're at it? Okay, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're not an alt attempting to create flames in a well-established thread. Give me good reason why the Deimos should not be able to fit Ion IIs and have the same agility as the Thorax given all of the statistics mentioned so far. Nobody mentioned anywhere that they wanted the Deimos to have "800dps, infinite cap and tank like a mother***". Because a zealot has 4 turret slots? Oh and that extra armor and t2 components add mass to the ship, but amarr engineers knew how to overcome this Well we agree on one thing - the Gallente scientists who designed the Deimos need to look for new jobs. No Regarding the agility/mass/speed thing. the zealot got a speed increase because he lost his dronebay. Enough said.
Miklas Laces	Posted - 2006.03.30 16:37:00 - [442] Originally by: The Cold Cry me a river, then give a zealot a drone bay The Zealot has 1 less turret, but 1 more lowslot for a damage mod. Overall the Zealot has about 30% less dps than the Deimos, but almost double range. But the Zealot can tank a lot better because 1) has a smaller radius 2) it doesnt have to sacrify a low slot for RCU 3) it's A LOT less cap hungry Then there is powergrid. With adv wep upgrades lvl 4: on the Deimos you fit a full rack of Ions, MWD and armor repair. You're left with 10 units of powergrid for the remaining 8 slots. on the Zealot you fit a full rack of Heavy Pulse, AB and armor repairer. You have almost 300 powergrid left.
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.30 16:44:00 - [443] Originally by: The Cold Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: The Cold Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: The Cold Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: The Cold Cry me a river, then give a zealot a drone bay No. Why? Here. So you want to dish out +800dps have infinite cap and tank like a mother**** while you're at it? Okay, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're not an alt attempting to create flames in a well-established thread. Give me good reason why the Deimos should not be able to fit Ion IIs and have the same agility as the Thorax given all of the statistics mentioned so far. Nobody mentioned anywhere that they wanted the Deimos to have "800dps, infinite cap and tank like a mother**". Because a zealot has 4 turret slots? Oh and that extra armor and t2 components add mass to the ship, but amarr engineers knew how to overcome this Well we agree on one thing - the Gallente scientists who designed the Deimos need to look for new jobs. No Regarding the agility/mass/speed thing. the zealot got a speed increase because he lost his dronebay. Enough said. Please read the link I gave initially. The Zealot loses a drone bay (a pretty small one at that), and in turn is faster, tougher, far more powerful and easier to fit than an Omen. In fact, she has so much powergrid that if you don't* use a plate you still have hundreds left over. I have flown the Zealot for nearly as long as I have flown the Deimos, and her lack of drone bay has never been an issue, and her extra velocity makes her more than capable of killing a Deimos before it gets within optimal. In comparison the Deimos has a minute increase in fitting over the Thorax (second-lowest of all the HACs) which inhibits the use of Ion Blasters - a gun that every other blaster ship in the game can fit, as well as being the slowest HAC with the largest signature radius (makes no sense given her role, and the fact that other HACs aren't penalised due to their parent cruisers bonuses whereby the Deimos is). A lot of people in this thread agree and have provided numbers and accounts that verify their arguments. You come here with none, accuse 80% of the repliers of not knowing what they talk about and expect everyone to be convinced. Save The Deimos
Miklas Laces	Posted - 2006.03.30 16:45:00 - [444] Originally by: The Cold So you want to dish out +800dps have infinite cap and tank like a mother****** while you're at it? The thread title is "make deimos easier to fit", not "make deimos uber".
The Cold	Posted - 2006.03.30 18:28:00 - [445] Originally by: Miklas Laces Originally by: The Cold So you want to dish out +800dps have infinite cap and tank like a mother****** while you're at it? The thread title is "make deimos easier to fit", not "make deimos uber". Ok, so people want x5 neutrons t2? an mwd? and no engineering modules? (aka rcu?) maybe a tank? and some mag stabs? Some drones over here and some drones over there. Well that's fine with me, you can dream. It's like giving a retribution a 2nd med slot
Asurix	Posted - 2006.03.30 18:42:00 - [446] i think it wouldn't be more then fair to let the deimos be able to fit 5x ion T2's and a med nosf and an mwd without using power modules, that's all I'll say. ATM if you wanna fit an 800mm plate you need to use electrons with a PDU I think. It's crazy, a zealot can fit an 800mm plate with 4 guns a med rep a med nosf and an AB and no power mods. IMO A Deimos should be able to fit 5 heavy electron II's, a medium nosf, an mwd, a med rep and an 800mm plate without using any power modules
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.30 18:54:00 - [447] Originally by: The Cold Originally by: Miklas Laces Originally by: The Cold So you want to dish out +800dps have infinite cap and tank like a mother****** while you're at it? The thread title is "make deimos easier to fit", not "make deimos uber". Ok, so people want x5 neutrons t2? an mwd? and no engineering modules? (aka rcu?) maybe a tank? and some mag stabs? Some drones over here and some drones over there. Well that's fine with me, you can dream. It's like giving a retribution a 2nd med slot You've obviously read none of the thread. I believe I mention in the first few lines of the original post that we don't want to be able to use Neutrons with a tank, MWD and Nosferatu. As it stands, she can't even fit Ion Blasters without an RCU II. Save The Deimos
Asurix	Posted - 2006.03.30 18:57:00 - [448] Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: The Cold Originally by: Miklas Laces Originally by: The Cold So you want to dish out +800dps have infinite cap and tank like a mother****** while you're at it? The thread title is "make deimos easier to fit", not "make deimos uber". Ok, so people want x5 neutrons t2? an mwd? and no engineering modules? (aka rcu?) maybe a tank? and some mag stabs? Some drones over here and some drones over there. Well that's fine with me, you can dream. It's like giving a retribution a 2nd med slot You've obviously read none of the thread. I believe I mention in the first few lines of the original post that we don't want to be able to use Neutrons with a tank, MWD and Nosferatu. As it stands, she can't even fit Ion Blasters without an RCU II. Well you can fit ions with an mwd and a repper, but nosf or plate? forget it (without RCU, with RCU II you can fit a nosf maybe, gimpiing your setup with the RCU II)
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.03.30 19:00:00 - [449] Edited by: Dash Ripcock on 30/03/2006 19:00:35 Originally by: Asurix Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: The Cold Originally by: Miklas Laces Originally by: The Cold So you want to dish out +800dps have infinite cap and tank like a mother****** while you're at it? The thread title is "make deimos easier to fit", not "make deimos uber". Ok, so people want x5 neutrons t2? an mwd? and no engineering modules? (aka rcu?) maybe a tank? and some mag stabs? Some drones over here and some drones over there. Well that's fine with me, you can dream. It's like giving a retribution a 2nd med slot You've obviously read none of the thread. I believe I mention in the first few lines of the original post that we don't want to be able to use Neutrons with a tank, MWD and Nosferatu. As it stands, she can't even fit Ion Blasters without an RCU II. Well you can fit ions with an mwd and a repper, but nosf or plate? forget it (without RCU, with RCU II you can fit a nosf maybe, gimpiing your setup with the RCU II) Yeah, as I said before the Deimos should be able to fit a mild tank with Electrons, Ions with damage mods and normal tank (like the Electron fit now) and Neutrons with a plate and some damage mods, perhaps no MWD. As it stands if she wants to fill out her high-slots with Ions and Nos, and have a Med Armour Rep II, she needs an RCU II in the lows. Then she is one low-slot down and very tight on CPU. You can do this with a Taranis or Megathron, and even a Thorax. Why not the Deimos? She's a Tech 2 blaster boat after all. Save The Deimos
Techyon	Posted - 2006.03.30 23:41:00 - [450] Edited by: Techyon on 30/03/2006 23:41:47 Edited by: Techyon on 30/03/2006 23:41:24 Any noobish alt can in the future shut up about us wanting the Deimos to be uber damage or tank wise. Why ? The only thing we're asking for is agility/fitting boost. Blaster do some serious damage once you're in range, if you know how to handle transversal velocity etc. The Deimos can do some nice damage, the problem is bringing the damage to the enemies' hull and not getting pounded to dust in the same time, which is what we are trying to improve by this thread. Tanking ? well the Deimos has a pretty nice tank already imo, it doesn't have the cap to sustain it at all with other modules running, a tad more cap would be welcome.. but I think we all agree the Deimos isn't a tank ship, its a Gank ship. Thus its somewhat logical that the Deimos hasn't got the cap to infitank, if the blaster cap usage is lowered it should give the Deimos some breathing space capwise. You'll still be tight but the Deimos really isn't ment for tanking, just need enough cap for you opponent to die, and hope you can recover before the next opponent. ------

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