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Deimos: The Ugly Duckling

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Kunming	Posted - 2006.05.04 22:57:00 - [571] Originally by: Bloodst0ne 20 pages and counting.. 0 dev responses in the entire thread and errr.. counting? /me files his dev application in hopes of fixing the problem. COME ON DEV's I know you are reading this. -blood I know now they are definetly not reading it or if they do ignore it on purpose.. Tux's latest post is a prime proof for this. Not even a mentioning of the deimos. Originally by: Tuxford Blasters Decreased Capacitor need by 15% Decreased cpu need by 10% Decreased powergrid need by 10% on all heavy neutron blasters Some of you might feel that this is not enough. The changes are pretty modest on purpose. I don't think this makes blasters overpowered and they are obviously better then they are now. Of course blasters suffer from other stuff that has nothing to do with blasters really but more to do with the danger of coming that close to other ships thus making them vulnerable to nos, webs, scramblers and so on. You can not even fit full rack of heavy ion blasters on a deimos, the change on the neutrons will only effect the brutix... ->
Kunming	Posted - 2006.05.07 13:01:00 - [572] Shameless bump, as the upcoming changed do NOTHING about the deimos. You cant even fit a proper tank OR gank setup (no EW setup either as the mids are used by the mandatory MWD & webifier), and its slower than its T1 counter part, way to go for the "ultimate blaster boat" (ship description)... The devs brought in specialization and long training times, so pls also make it worth while the time and money we spend... It might not be game breaking for you but it definetly is for me. I trained med blasters and gallente hac for a reason so dont tell me to fly the ishtar or train for a vagabond as I would rather cancel my subscription until its fixed and play with my second account ->
Kuro Hayashi	Posted - 2006.05.10 01:42:00 - [573] By Tux's reasoning... Quote: Gridwise I think blasters are fine, it is somewhat easier to fit mega pulse on an apoc but it doesn't really do the same damage as blasterthron, and although arma gets pretty close to the damage output its a bit harder to fit than mega. Granted he is talking about BS sized ships here. However, since he is not changing the grid requirements on cruiser sized blasters, it must follow that he believes blasters do not have grid problems in the medium sizes. Therefore if blasters are not the source of the grid problems...it must be the Deimos itself that has issues (using reason). We must therefore conclude that the Deimos, not the blasters, is the problem and that any blaster changes will not help the ship. A practicioner of Unsensical thought.
Deviana Sevidon	Posted - 2006.05.13 15:14:00 - [574] I would really like to see a Boost for this ship. As so many people stated, the Deimos has not even enough Grid to fit Ion Blasters properly. Even if Neutrons will be easier to fit, this won't help the Deimos hat all. So Tuxford tell me, is the Deimos and this Thread ignored on purpose?
Harper04	Posted - 2006.05.13 20:36:00 - [575] Tux, if you're only going to give neutrons pg love, and not the other med blasters, then at least make it so that I can use them on this beautiful ship...right now they're worthless cept on the brutix/t2 bc variants, and some blaster eagle setups. The blaster boost is making my caldari flying corpm8's happy because they're getting to get an even better closerange eagle setup, while gallente is getting left in the dust seeing they can't even begin to fit neutrons.
Lucus Ranger	Posted - 2006.05.13 21:01:00 - [576] Yup Deimos needs love...
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.05.15 14:00:00 - [577] Deimos Fitting: CPU: 412.5 tf PG: 1075 MW Current Ion Blaster II fitting (with full skills): CPU: 29.25 tf PG: 142.2 MW Assuming a Deimos pilot wants to fit five Heavy Ion Blaster IIs, a M Nosferatu (named), a MWD and a Medium Armour Rep II (not unreasonable - this is a Tech 2 blaster boat) he will need: CPU: (29.25 * 5) + 20 + 50 + 28 = 244.25 tf PG: (142.2 * 5) + 175 + 165 + 173 = 1224 MW The proposed changes are that the blasters receive 10-15% less fitting needs in CPU. This will change nothing with the Deimos. She still won't be able to use an Ion setup that doesn't require either a frigate-class module in the last high slot or a power modification in a low slot. CPU is tight on the Deimos - you need best-named T1 stuff nearly everywhere to use an Ion Blaster setup and a cruiser-sized nosferatu. However, it's only half the problem. Coupled with her crippling speed, signature radius and mass, the proposed changes offer the Deimos pilots absolutely nothing. Considering this is now a *twenty-page thread* that is inexcusable.
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.05.15 14:05:00 - [578] Originally by: Kuro Hayashi By Tux's reasoning... Quote: Gridwise I think blasters are fine, it is somewhat easier to fit mega pulse on an apoc but it doesn't really do the same damage as blasterthron, and although arma gets pretty close to the damage output its a bit harder to fit than mega. Granted he is talking about BS sized ships here. However, since he is not changing the grid requirements on cruiser sized blasters, it must follow that he believes blasters do not have grid problems in the medium sizes. Therefore if blasters are not the source of the grid problems...it must be the Deimos itself that has issues (using reason). We must therefore conclude that the Deimos, not the blasters, is the problem and that any blaster changes will not help the ship. It is the Deimos that is the problem. If you look a few pages back you will see that the Deimos, out of all the Heavy Assaults, has the second-lowest fitting increase over its T1 counterpart, the first being the Ishtar which, I think we can agree here, doesn't really need it. The difference in fitting between a Thorax and a Deimos is marginal, yet this is suppose to cater for a high and low slot - slots that are going to require power grid and CPU. I simply don't understand where Tuxford is coming from. This is one of the largest ship threads on the forum with the majority in agreement. Figures have been given, arguments made. Blaster changes are announced and... they're simply not enough. Enough for Battleships perhaps, but not for one of the few Tech 2 blaster boats.
OzaLoni	Posted - 2006.05.15 14:39:00 - [579] well personally I would like to see the following changes made to the deimos. 5% increase in agility (maybe a little more) - I don't want it to be like a vaga (which is just haxor atm) but blasters and agility would seem to be a good mix! 200 extra grid would be fantastic, but i think i'm off in dream land here
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.05.15 14:43:00 - [580] Originally by: OzaLoni well personally I would like to see the following changes made to the deimos. 5% increase in agility (maybe a little more) - I don't want it to be like a vaga (which is just haxor atm) but blasters and agility would seem to be a good mix! 200 extra grid would be fantastic, but i think i'm off in dream land here Actually i think the 200 grid is reasonable since a zealot can fit 4 guns a plate and a medium nosf without fitting mods, a deimos can only fit its guns without a fitting mod also a 10% speed increase would be more then reasonable
Jerick Ludhowe	Posted - 2006.05.15 14:59:00 - [581] Originally by: Dash Ripcock It is the Deimos that is the problem. If you look a few pages back you will see that the Deimos, out of all the Heavy Assaults, has the second-lowest fitting increase over its T1 counterpart, the first being the Ishtar which, I think we can agree here, doesn't really need it. The difference in fitting between a Thorax and a Deimos is marginal, yet this is suppose to cater for a high and low slot - slots that are going to require power grid and CPU. I simply don't understand where Tuxford is coming from. This is one of the largest ship threads on the forum with the majority in agreement. Figures have been given, arguments made. Blaster changes are announced and... they're simply not enough. Enough for Battleships perhaps, but not for one of the few Tech 2 blaster boats.[/quote Can't agree with you more. If you decrease the grid req on medium blasters then you end up boosting ships that are already on the verge of being overly powerfull such as the Brutix and Astrate. The deimos needs a minor grid increase (no more than 10%) a small sig reduction and a speed increase. All of these changes could be very modest and it still will make a big difference.
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.05.16 10:16:00 - [582] This still needs to be addressed
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.05.16 10:19:00 - [583] Originally by: Dash Ripcock This still needs to be addressed I truly don't understand why the devs don't give this HUGE thread with 99% agreement any attention
Bacchuss	Posted - 2006.05.16 10:33:00 - [584] boost deimos..... ************************************ "What you gonna do, when I come for yoU?!" ************************************
Joe Dalton	Posted - 2006.05.16 11:13:00 - [585] Hmmm Speed and agility would help it more.
Bazman	Posted - 2006.05.16 11:33:00 - [586] Fix teh Deimos, I skilled heavily for this ship and I find myself flying the Thorax simply because the Deimos blows chunks. It looks nice though. ----- Hi TomB! All out Do or Die Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks.
Hellspawn01	Posted - 2006.05.16 12:01:00 - [587] Got a question to the deimos pilots in here that have fitting problems (might be everyone here): Do you have the following skills at lvl5? -Advanced weapon upgrades -Engineering -Energy systems Operation -Energy management -Weapon upgrades -Electronics upgrades If you use plates, then you definately need RCU or a PDU. If you prefer gank, then you will probably use 2x damage mods and 2x energized adaptive nanos. I personaly use a 800mm plate 2x RCU II and 2 passive hardeners and a full set of Ions II. Got about 6 grid spare with very high skills. If you dont have one of the above named skills maxed, then you should do that before you talk about fitting problems. No offense ment. Ship lovers click here
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.05.16 12:08:00 - [588] Originally by: Hellspawn01 Got a question to the deimos pilots in here that have fitting problems (might be everyone here): Do you have the following skills at lvl5? -Advanced weapon upgrades -Engineering -Energy systems Operation -Energy management -Weapon upgrades -Electronics upgrades If you use plates, then you definately need RCU or a PDU. If you prefer gank, then you will probably use 2x damage mods and 2x energized adaptive nanos. I personaly use a 800mm plate 2x RCU II and 2 passive hardeners and a full set of Ions II. Got about 6 grid spare with very high skills. If you dont have one of the above named skills maxed, then you should do that before you talk about fitting problems. No offense ment. Of course, and keep in mind that those skills are't all required to make a half-decent fitting on the other HACs like they are on the Deimos. New sig coming soonÖ Drone musing (MC-boards)
Wattish	Posted - 2006.05.16 12:09:00 - [589] Originally by: Deathbarrage Originally by: Dash Ripcock This still needs to be addressed I truly don't understand why the devs don't give this HUGE thread with 99% agreement any attention You need to make a flash animation, attend E3 to ask directly and send an express delivery crayon drawn poem to iceland.
Ceanthar Cerbera	Posted - 2006.05.16 12:20:00 - [590] Seeing that this thread isnt a "OMFG OWERPOWER MY SHIP"-thread I might aswell put in an post of my own. This thread takes up one quite odd irregularity in EVE. If you read up on the races you notice that Gallente ship design is about extreme close range fighting with blasters and drones. This is cool, it hought when I started playing. Being a sebiestor I started with Minmatar but soon changed as I wanted a more "up front and personal" fighting style. I pledged myself to not use any ranged weapons even how much punishment I took getting to my target (those 2000m thats needed before any medium blaster works). I worked my way through all the support skills thats needed (alot of mechanics, gunnery etc) that other ships dont need in the same extent. And what of it? Now that I have tried some different ships and setups i realize that I might have been better off going short range with Minmatar instead! But dont get me wrong I really like Gallente ships, althought seeing that the extreme short range dont work as one would expect Im now more of a drone/rail oriented fighter (my primary HAC will be Ishtar and my primary BS are Domi with all drones and Mega with rails) except for my Enyo wich is the only blaster boat true to its name (although I hear they are getting nerfed). So whats the problem with the blaster boats of the extreme close range blaster race (Gallente)? Well two main things: AGILITY and SPEED The Thorax is a slow poke, sure you can fit MWD but the agility makes you overshoot. But my main conscern isnt with the thorax. It is a t1 ship and I think its quite balanced. Perhaps it could do with a couple of 10s m/s extra but its not an big issue. Brutix, oo a real gun boat. Meanacing and fearsome, but handles like a lead brick in oil. This is probably the least agile ship in the game (including such slow ships as raven). I mean whats up with a ship being 3 times as small as a BS and be the slowest in warp and the same speed? Using the Brutix as blaster boat is a "lets have some tea and bicuits while we aproach this target". Granted once you get within reach its awesome! But this doesnt stop most people I have seen to use it as a rail plattform (wich often causes you to go shield tanking the ship that has 7,5 % armor rep bonus!?). This agility problem applies to all BC (atleast could we have an BC afterburner?). The EOS and Astartre. Well I can see why you dont want a more agile Astartre cause it would just be to powerful. Astartre is more of a support/drone boat so lets not go there either. Finally the main blaster boat of the game. The feroscious DEIMOS! Wich, like the thorax will be half dead by the time it reaches its target. Bulky and slow with less agility than the Thorax. Where is the logic? The Deaimos is supposed to be an improved Thorax. That is an improved extreme close range ship. That means it should have better agility and more speed than the t1 version (Thorax). Granted we dont want a second vagabond but still theres things here that doesnt add up. Finally a word about pg on the ships. I can see why its a bit small but I still think that to much powergrid will overpower the ship (once it is within reach). And about fitting 1600 plates on a cruiser? Well it is a module aimed for BS so dont be overly alarmed.. About blasters you might think you should be able to fit Ions and a good tank but Im quite happy with electrons tbh. No a bit more speed and agility for the ships that are supposed to be the real close range ships is the main concern here.
Miklas Laces	Posted - 2006.05.16 12:22:00 - [591] bump, bump Give more powergrid to the Deimos. Or decrease powergrid requirements of med ion blasters.
Aomis	Posted - 2006.05.16 12:34:00 - [592] /signed
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.05.16 12:53:00 - [593] ehm this thread isn't about overpowering a deimos, it's about balancing it so that it can compete with other HAC's... If these proposed changes overpower the deimos, then NERF ALL HAC's cuz they're all overpowered
Techyon	Posted - 2006.05.16 12:55:00 - [594] I'll Sign it again, perhaps Tux will check the thread one of these days ------ Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 kbs, ty - Cortes
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.05.16 13:07:00 - [595] Originally by: Techyon I'll Sign it again, perhaps Tux will check the thread one of these days Or maybe he doesn't want to... He replied to Jim Raynor's thread about Assault Launchers within 24 hours. Perhaps the answer he has lined up takes more than a few seconds to write, but I know I've devoted hours to all the posts I have made in this thread and not having a single reply is like a slap in the face.
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.05.16 13:09:00 - [596] Edited by: Deathbarrage on 16/05/2006 13:08:59 Edited by: Deathbarrage on 16/05/2006 13:08:50 Originally by: Dash Ripcock Originally by: Techyon I'll Sign it again, perhaps Tux will check the thread one of these days Or maybe he doesn't want to... He replied to Jim Raynor's thread about Assault Launchers within 24 hours. Perhaps the answer he has lined up takes more than a few seconds to write, but I know I've devoted hours to all the posts I have made in this thread and not having a single reply is like a slap in the face. Maybe the dev's are all caldari ;)
Jon Xylur	Posted - 2006.05.16 14:00:00 - [597] Nah. They are just Caldari's biches. No way they'd ever boost a Gallenet ship unl÷ess they REALLY have to. Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, and not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty - Cortes
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.05.16 14:02:00 - [598] this thread has now officially become to long for the forum to handle
rig0r	Posted - 2006.05.16 15:48:00 - [599] FIX THE FRICKING DEIMOS.
Death Merchant	Posted - 2006.05.16 15:58:00 - [600] Originally by: Hellspawn01 Got a question to the deimos pilots in here that have fitting problems (might be everyone here): Do you have the following skills at lvl5? -Advanced weapon upgrades -Engineering -Energy systems Operation -Energy management -Weapon upgrades -Electronics upgrades If you use plates, then you definately need RCU or a PDU. If you prefer gank, then you will probably use 2x damage mods and 2x energized adaptive nanos. I personaly use a 800mm plate 2x RCU II and 2 passive hardeners and a full set of Ions II. Got about 6 grid spare with very high skills. If you dont have one of the above named skills maxed, then you should do that before you talk about fitting problems. No offense ment. 1st: Yes I do have all of those skill requirements and I still think the deimos needs work(as a close range blaster ship). 2nd: Do you think the deimos is fine as is?

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