That's what I'm going to be forced to do after these changes.

And I don't want to. I love the Paladin. I love the model. I love that it's going to transform into a cool battlestation thingy now. But if it sucks, and it will suck for missioning compared to any number of other ships, then I won't fly it.

I ... what? the paladin is still probably the marauder that gets the best deal out of this thingy. dat optimal bonus! armor reps just got +15% and will get +100% in bastion still. oh yes and a ton of cap! the thing doesn't need the rep bonus for lv4s as is.

also it can do the same dps as the nightmare, and I think I'll take the optimal bonus over the tracking bonus most of the time. not to mention all that cap (again) and the ability to press a button and get +100% reps!

100% rep bonus, only when sitting still. although considering nearly every self rep mod just got buffed it isn't quite a 37.5% hit. for lv4s most marauders didn't really even need the rep bonus anyways.

ships that didn't really need an 80% web got one, and two ships lost 90% webs for 80%

and yea the mass change isn't anywhere near as bad as some people are making it out to be

should have had a prop mod already, although with base speed and mass nerf you will be going slower.

True, I've stopped training for one when I read the las post from Ytterbium I will stay with my RNI.

I ... what? the paladin is still probably the marauder that gets the best deal out of this thingy. dat optimal bonus! armor reps just got +15% and will get +100% in bastion still. oh yes and a ton of cap! the thing doesn't need the rep bonus for lv4s as is.

also it can do the same dps as the nightmare, and I think I'll take the optimal bonus over the tracking bonus most of the time. not to mention all that cap (again) and the ability to press a button and get +100% reps!

Except that lasers already have a great range set for missions. The optimal bonus may be good for PvP but on a mission boat a tracking bonus would probably be worth more, especially since it's not stacking penalized.

All armor reps getting +15% means the paladin doesn't stand out there though. Agreed on the range vs tracking, and bastion adds a nice option, but it will be slower, moreso under prop mods due to mass difference, have less drone flexibility and probably less tank after fitting aside from bastion focused tanks.

Which is my issue, the ships are going the direction of being prenerfed to keep bastion from being OP, and personally, I wanted to be an option, not something mandatory to keep it from being inferior for solo work. For incursions I'm not sure where it stands, web nerf seems compensated for by the more omni friendly resist profile.

ITT: Terrible terrible players that complain they need a tank bonus on top of a 100% rep bonus to run L 4s.

Also, ridiculous hyperbole asking CCP to change nothing rather than do this, as if range, resist, scan res, tank and we immunity bonuses are worse to have than 15% ehp and speed.

With the focus seeming to shift from Bastion optional to Bastion+MJD mandatory I'd argue that range would be highly prized. Blinking out 100km on a megapulse+scorch boat and still being viable is one of my hopes that remain intact at this point.

it doesn't need to stand out on tank with an optimal range and damage bonus on tachyons.

From a tachyon gamma will just shoot just a bit shorter than scorch and do more dps, xray will do slightly less dps and out range scorch.

neither the bastion mod or the MJD will be needed for a paladin. although it is nice the 25% optimal from bastion will be the biggest optimal bonus so it goes first in the stacking penalty formula.

ITT: Terrible terrible players that complain they need a tank bonus on top of a 100% rep bonus to run L 4s.

Also, ridiculous hyperbole asking CCP to change nothing rather than do this, as if range, resist, scan res, tank and we immunity bonuses are worse to have than 15% ehp and speed.

Except that lasers already have a great range set for missions. The optimal bonus may be good for PvP but on a mission boat a tracking bonus would probably be worth more, especially since it's not stacking penalized.

I hope this chorus against the 7.5% rep nerf reaches the Dev's ears with the same clarity that the Incursion whiners did.

The original proposed changes were 90% of what was necessary. But I would rather you do nothing than do what is currently proposed.

Lets see if I can give the reading base some clarification about why so many Murader pilots want the web bonus gone for something else... and why we seriously dislike the idea of a "Stationary" gun fortress.

To effectively run missions - we fight at range. Large guns hit with certainty around 30km++ (for Vargur / Paladin) or 35++ For the Kronos. Golem is a wild child and is more interested in sig radius, but gets a painter bonus (which is usefull for that hull). Because of this, most engagement ranges for these Muraders is 30-60km, with the Paladin and Kronos pushing out 80 or more KM for effective DPS.

We prefer to fight at range, and have the ability to do damage at range because it is both faster and safer for mission running. Most Battle Ships primarily Distance Tank. We are able to stay outside of weapons damage range of the NPC rats, and using an AB or MWD we can easily dictate both range and angular velocity to targets to a level of high fidelity, ensuring optimal safety and damage application.

It is not just the 7.5% rep bonus per level, the t2 resist profile makes them good for rat specific tanking, just like command ships, heavy assault cruisers, T3s, and assault frigates it would seem we have plenty of ships for rat specific tanking.
The first iteration of the marauder's bastion module was nice because it basically said "to hell with rat specific tanking" and let you run any kind of site or mission you wanted.

Snip

Now redo the maths for situation A using a 0% Bastion module. You are trying to combine the effect of two changes at once here. One of which was not currently in game and was only in initial proposal stage. So using two different bastion module proposals to argue a single stat change doesn't work.
The T2 resist profile is to compensate for the Rep bonus being lost. Not for both bonuses. And you get another bonus alongside the T2 resists as a result (Currently Webs, and the ships that used to have a web bonus get a different bonus instead if you want to look at it that way)

but those were the two changes proposed so it makes sense to compare them right?

CCP Ytterbium, it would seem many would prefer iteration one with the following changes.
Kronos, give back the web bonus but reduced to 7.5% leave the rest as is.
Paladin, give back the web bonus but reduced to 7.5% leave the rest as is.
Vargur, no one seems to be complaining about the web bonus, but put it where the old TP bonus was.

- get rid of the web bonus in favor of some variation of a defense bonus (or if that's not an option at least change golem/vargur to web range for variety)
- change the paladin's capacitor bonus to a damage application bonus (tracking or ROF) to mirror the kronos and vargur
- swap the golem's TP bonus for a built-in explosion radius bonus (5% per level or so) and drop one mid slot for one low slot
- apply T2 resists
- give the bastion mod a mild damage application bonus (20% to tracking, 10% to explosion vel+rad)
- make the bastion module use 25 heavy water per cycle

Time for another update.

We discussed the Marauder situation further and came with the following changes:

• Shield, armor and hull 30% resistance boosts have been removed on the Bastion Module - instead, all Marauders will now get proper tech2 resists. This will allow Marauders to have better RR use outside Bastion and reduce overall tanking effectiveness inside the mode.


• We have removed all tanking bonuses on the Marauders hulls (Armor Repairer amount on the Paladin and Kronos, Shield Boost amount on the Golem and Vargur). Instead, we are giving them 7.5% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level. This will not only help reducing their tanking effectiveness, be more in theme with the ship role itself and help anyone using them with short range weapons. We are not giving them a full 10% per level back as this would be extremely powerful in conjunction with the other bonuses / Bastion. We are going to leave the full 10% web strength amount on the Serpentis ships for now and see how things evolve with time.


• Also, we are removing the mass penalty on the Bastion mode. Tests have shown you can't really turn when it's active anyway, and we don't want to have players abuse that to collapse wormholes.

I will change the OP to match the changes.

"Only Valid on the Kronos....