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destroyers - gankers and high sec

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Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 16552	Posted - 2013.09.20 15:13:00 - [481] - Quote Infinity Ziona wrote: I won't link SC in EvE forums as I think that would be rude to do. However I'll post this: Quote: Star Citizen is an MMO by almost every definition of MMO. It is ALSO more than an MMO, which is why the FAQ says this so people do not have preconceived MMO discussions. Ok, you were talking about SC, not Elite. Fine. That's still just a player directly contradicting the game's own FAQ using some unqualified definition that he does not elaborate on. So I'll trust the game's own FAQ on that oneGÇª not an MMO. Quote: Easy to find that post if you use google. SC has a persistent single server where all players connect and retrieve and store data. So I would call that a single sharded universe. There won't be multiple servers. I would not. I would call that a central repository of data. Whether or not it means it's actually a single-sharded universe depends on how that data is used by the server itself and the clients that connect to it. Quote: I'd like them to get back to their original vision and start paying attention to the other 75% of the playerbase who don't like playing Days of Our POS's online. What 75% are those, and what are you referring to with GÇ£Days of Our POSes onlineGÇ¥? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Infinity Ziona Cloakers 422	Posted - 2013.09.20 15:30:00 - [482] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Infinity Ziona wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Isn't it sad when people who don't like EVE as it is to try to hang their hopes on a game that doesn't even exist yet. It's like jumpgate/black prophesy/Star Trek Online/Battlestar Galactica Online/ Star Wars Galaxies/SWTOR/etc/etc/etc all over again.... I love EvE. Have played it for 10 years. I still have my original EvE box and CD. I don't like where CCP have taken a lot of the game but there is still enough good stuff to keep playing it. I'd like them to get back to their original vision and start paying attention to the other 75% of the playerbase who don't like playing Days of Our POS's online. It's not surprising that you don't understand why EVE has a reinforcement mechanic, it's not really all that different from you not understanding why EVE has local chat. And lol at that insane appeal to CCP's wallet. When will you learn that you speak only for yourself, not "75% of the player base"? Pretending like lots of other people agree with you when you have no proof of such agreement is the sign of a weak argument. I understand that before reinforcement timers people were blapping sov assets while enemies were offline in down hours. While that is a problem the "fix" created another arguably worse problem. As an example if you check the map, goon sov you will notice that since Test got beaten Goons have dropped TCU's all over Delve and Period Basis. They did that in 24 hours. If you take a tour through there you will find zero Goons. So why hasnt anyone retaken that space or tried to contest it? Because if they do Goons will show up at the time they set the timer and wipe out the challenger. According to CCP 75% of players reside in high sec. That leaves 25% enjoying all the content of the game at the expense of the 75% who miss out.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 16552	Posted - 2013.09.20 15:34:00 - [483] - Quote Infinity Ziona wrote: According to CCP 75% of players reside in high sec. No. According to CCP, 65% of characters are in highsec. Also, 75% of players like PvP and 73% of players like nullsec gameplay. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Infinity Ziona Cloakers 422	Posted - 2013.09.20 15:34:00 - [484] - Quote Tippia wrote: Infinity Ziona wrote: According to CCP 75% of players reside in high sec. No. According to CCP, 65% of characters are in highsec. Also, 75% of players like PvP and 73% of players like nullsec gameplay. Link?
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 16553	Posted - 2013.09.20 15:39:00 - [485] - Quote Infinity Ziona wrote: Tippia wrote: Infinity Ziona wrote: According to CCP 75% of players reside in high sec. No. According to CCP, 65% of characters are in highsec. Also, 75% of players like PvP and 73% of players like nullsec gameplay. Link? Same as always. 35% of characters in other areas than highsec. If, for each one of those characters, the same player has a highsec alt, then that means we have 35% low/null characters, 35% low/null-player alts, and 30% pure highsec characters. 70% non-highsec players corresponds curiously with a 73% nullsec gameplay approval ratingGÇª GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Infinity Ziona Cloakers 422	Posted - 2013.09.20 15:47:00 - [486] - Quote Tippia wrote: Infinity Ziona wrote: Tippia wrote: Infinity Ziona wrote: According to CCP 75% of players reside in high sec. No. According to CCP, 65% of characters are in highsec. Also, 75% of players like PvP and 73% of players like nullsec gameplay. Link? Same as always. 35% of characters in other areas than highsec. If, for each one of those characters, the same player has a highsec alt, then that means we have 35% low/null characters, 35% low/null-player alts, and 30% pure highsec characters. 70% non-highsec players corresponds curiously with a 73% nullsec gameplay approval ratingGÇª If we assume of those 35% 15% are in low and WH and of the 20% in null each has a alt for scouting hauling etc that makes 10% of players null sec. Two can play at the assuming game.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 16553	Posted - 2013.09.20 15:51:00 - [487] - Quote Infinity Ziona wrote: If we assume of those 35% 15% are in low and WH and of the 20% in null each has a alt for scouting hauling etc that makes 10% of players null sec. Two can play at the assuming game. Doesn't really matter. The simple fact remains that the supposed highsec majority is not nearly the majority they suppose they are. In fact, they could very easily be a minority, and the constant mewling against PvP is in no way representative even for that small group. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
E-2C Hawkeye State War Academy Caldari State 284	Posted - 2013.09.20 15:57:00 - [488] - Quote Tippia wrote: Infinity Ziona wrote: If we assume of those 35% 15% are in low and WH and of the 20% in null each has a alt for scouting hauling etc that makes 10% of players null sec. Two can play at the assuming game. Doesn't really matter. The simple fact remains that the supposed highsec majority is not nearly the majority they suppose they are. In fact, they could very easily be a minority, and the constant mewling against PvP is in no way representative even for that small group. Tipia knows this to be true and factual because she has already written and therefore has to be correct GÇ£BONJOURGÇ¥
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 16553	Posted - 2013.09.20 16:02:00 - [489] - Quote E-2C Hawkeye wrote: Tipia knows this to be true and factual because she has already written and therefore has to be correct GÇ£BONJOURGÇ¥ Tipia doesn't seem to have been around for almost a decade. As the facts, I know them to be true and factual because I can read the statistics CCP have gathered, and I understand what this means in relation to the unsourced and highly imaginative claims the GÇ£protect highsecGÇ¥ crowd keeps inventing. Well, that, and I don't suffer from any particular kind of paranoia in regards to CCPs studies. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Random Majere Epsilon Lyr Nulli Secunda 103	Posted - 2013.09.20 16:04:00 - [490] - Quote Infinity Ziona wrote: Tippia wrote: Infinity Ziona wrote: You heard wrong. Link? I won't link SC in EvE forums as I think that would be rude to do. However I'll post this: Quote: Star Citizen is an MMO by almost every definition of MMO. It is ALSO more than an MMO, which is why the FAQ says this so people do not have preconceived MMO discussions. Unlike 'most' MMOs - SC includes a single player game (SQ42) - SC includes private server functionality - SC is an 'open universe' (unlike many MMOs) - SC is not a traditional RPG (no combat-affecting trainable stats / XP .. though reputation / citizenship is a stat) To further illustrate the point, Chris Roberts uses both UO and Guild Wars to define Star Citizens interactions, both of which are MMOs. He 'also' uses multiplayer dynamics from Demon Souls and private server concepts from the traditional PC action genres, which are not MMOs. Again, it is just a statement about preconceptions and not some definitive classification. Easy to find that post if you use google. SC has a persistent single server where all players connect and retrieve and store data. So I would call that a single sharded universe. There won't be multiple servers. Infinity Ziona, I agree with you but, you are wasting your time debating how SC will be better then Eve with CCP's moderators/defenders in these very forums. SC WILL be a good game and WILL take players away from EVE. Some will come back to Eve some will stay in SC. For my part I will try it for sure. And if it will be as good as it is expected, I will stay in it. But lets not get into differential details with some of the people in here. It is just a waste of time. Some people will never quit Eve (despite how it turns out) ...and that is fine.
E-2C Hawkeye State War Academy Caldari State 284	Posted - 2013.09.20 16:10:00 - [491] - Quote This has been brought up before. Even the devs have been quoted saying that ganking in hi-sec should remain possible just not so much profitable. I have no problem with being ganked but it doesnGÇÖt feel like balance to me given the current game mechanics. Some ships require a minimum investment to fit to allow them to fulfill their roles in hi-sec. I think part of the problem is that you have to fit one way when you pve while someone can cheap sheet fit for pvp and win. No its not isk tanking its tanking for the specific mission.
baltec1 Bat Country 8041	Posted - 2013.09.20 16:18:00 - [492] - Quote E-2C Hawkeye wrote: This has been brought up before. Even the devs have been quoted saying that ganking in hi-sec should remain possible just not so much profitable. I have no problem with being ganked but it doesnGÇÖt feel like balance to me given the current game mechanics. Some ships require a minimum investment to fit to allow them to fulfill their roles in hi-sec. I think part of the problem is that you have to fit one way when you pve while someone can cheap sheet fit for pvp and win. No its not isk tanking its tanking for the specific mission. Its not our fault people stuff 3 billion into an untanked badger with its lows stuffed full with cargo expanders.
Jonah Gravenstein Sweet Sensations Radical Industries 13962	Posted - 2013.09.20 16:47:00 - [493] - Quote E-2C Hawkeye wrote: This has been brought up before. Even the devs have been quoted saying that ganking in hi-sec should remain possible just not so much profitable. The major reason that highsec suicide ganking is profitable; some people are idiots. I am furnishing this post "as is" I do not provide any warranty whatsoever, whether express, implied, or statutory, including, but not limited to, any relevance or fitness for purpose or any warranty that the contents herein are error-free.
Rhes GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 216	Posted - 2013.09.20 16:47:00 - [494] - Quote E-2C Hawkeye wrote: I think part of the problem is that you have to fit one way when you pve lol...try looking at mission runner killmails sometime
Solstice Project I'm So Meta Even This Acronym 3965	Posted - 2013.09.20 16:54:00 - [495] - Quote Tippia wrote: E-2C Hawkeye wrote: Tipia knows this to be true and factual because she has already written and therefore has to be correct GÇ£BONJOURGÇ¥ Tipia doesn't seem to have been around for almost a decade. As the facts, I know them to be true and factual because I can read the statistics CCP have gathered, and I understand what this means in relation to the unsourced and highly imaginative claims the GÇ£protect highsecGÇ¥ crowd keeps inventing. Well, that, and I don't suffer from any particular kind of paranoia in regards to CCPs studies. This reminds me of the bullshit of "the majorify of players are solo players". Peoples inability to see their bias filter sometimes is frightening me... Peoples ability to make things up that weren't said and BELIEVING that scares me even more...
James Akachi Perkone Caldari State 4	Posted - 2013.09.20 17:40:00 - [496] - Quote baltec1 wrote: James Akachi wrote: well not necessarily. I play because the game and universe is beautiful, if you gave me a single player RPG with Eve's graphics and ships I would be playing that instead, sadly no such game exists, at least not one I enjoy. X3. Tried that, even compared to Eve its interface is abysmal, and not nearly as good graphically plus not the kind of gameplay I want. Next?
Jonah Gravenstein Sweet Sensations Radical Industries 13963	Posted - 2013.09.20 17:48:00 - [497] - Quote @ James Akachi X3 may not be to your taste, the follow up X Rebirth certainly looks stunning though. I am furnishing this post "as is" I do not provide any warranty whatsoever, whether express, implied, or statutory, including, but not limited to, any relevance or fitness for purpose or any warranty that the contents herein are error-free.
James Akachi Perkone Caldari State 4	Posted - 2013.09.20 17:59:00 - [498] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: @ James Akachi X3 may not be to your taste, the follow up X Rebirth certainly looks stunning though. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtXV34Py2fI Now this looks like controls I can get into... Maybe it will pan out indeed! Let's not derail too much with discussion of other games though...my original point was not everyone plays Eve for the prospect of PvP
Plastic Psycho Necro-Economics 506	Posted - 2013.09.20 18:19:00 - [499] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: E-2C Hawkeye wrote: This has been brought up before. Even the devs have been quoted saying that ganking in hi-sec should remain possible just not so much profitable. The major reason that highsec suicide ganking is profitable; some people are idiots. And no matter how hard they try, CCP can't patch 'Stupid.' CCP, debuff Barges, or buff Ganking. Either will do for me, but we need more Yaaar! in this game lest it become WoW in Spaaaaace! -á~ Me
Dave Stark 3716	Posted - 2013.09.20 18:20:00 - [500] - Quote Plastic Psycho wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: E-2C Hawkeye wrote: This has been brought up before. Even the devs have been quoted saying that ganking in hi-sec should remain possible just not so much profitable. The major reason that highsec suicide ganking is profitable; some people are idiots. And no matter how hard they try, CCP can't patch 'Stupid.' even if they could; they shouldn't.
Georgina Parmala Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 210	Posted - 2013.09.20 18:27:00 - [501] - Quote Infinity Ziona wrote: Never been in a gang so not sure about this but couldn't the hulk assign his rep drones to the orca and if not might it have been possible he was going to use them on the Orca thinking a larger force may warp in to gank it? The Hulk's drones are incapable of repairing the hulk, but can be used to repair the orca or any other ships. It's also entirely possible the Orca was fitted with a large shield transporter. Infinity Ziona wrote: Do not watch Star Citizen trailer on YouTube. It'll make you fearful of EvEs future beyond 2014 :) I just watched it and went "eh, that looks like a half decent Homeworld 3 cinematic before dropping you into a mission " Unless it sports rocks that don't run out, auto targeting strip miners, and invincible drones that ferry your cargo to station it's no match for EvE. Infinity Ziona wrote: Tippia wrote: Infinity Ziona wrote: Lol what selling points. Single-shard MMO, player-driven economy, all-aspect multiplayer sandbox. It will have one persistent universe, the economy will be player driven. The missions will be generated by player owned assets dynamically. Not sure about sandbox but I imagine taking systems won't require emailing CCP for reinforcing nodes or waiting 24 hours to blow someone's crap up, sending them an email and letting them pick the best time to gank you. Hardly sandbox is it. I don't see anything about single-shard MMO in the snipet you posted. I do see Private server functionality though, which throws that single shard thing right out the window. Also, I hear you like games where you get a hundred guys together to accomplish a goal, only to have 10 people undo all your progress over night while you sleep/go to work. Do you have a better idea than timers for protecting player generated structures from other players? Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
baltec1 Bat Country 8047	Posted - 2013.09.20 19:03:00 - [502] - Quote SC is what freelancer was meant to be. Its no threat to EVE.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 4587	Posted - 2013.09.20 19:07:00 - [503] - Quote Dave Stark wrote: Plastic Psycho wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: E-2C Hawkeye wrote: This has been brought up before. Even the devs have been quoted saying that ganking in hi-sec should remain possible just not so much profitable. The major reason that highsec suicide ganking is profitable; some people are idiots. And no matter how hard they try, CCP can't patch 'Stupid.' even if they could; they shouldn't. They're trying their best. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over. "Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013
Dave Stark 3719	Posted - 2013.09.20 19:09:00 - [504] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: Dave Stark wrote: Plastic Psycho wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: E-2C Hawkeye wrote: This has been brought up before. Even the devs have been quoted saying that ganking in hi-sec should remain possible just not so much profitable. The major reason that highsec suicide ganking is profitable; some people are idiots. And no matter how hard they try, CCP can't patch 'Stupid.' even if they could; they shouldn't. They're trying their best. blizzard constantly trying to patch stupid was why i started giving ccp my money instead of blizzard. guess i need to find another company to give my money to now...
Jenn aSide STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries 2826	Posted - 2013.09.20 19:19:00 - [505] - Quote Georgina Parmala wrote: I don't see anything about single-shard MMO in the snipet you posted. I do see Private server functionality though, which throws that single shard thing right out the window. That's right, private servers with private rules. Imagine if EVE did that, some people would have high sec servers with pvp turned completly off.... Quote: [ Also, I hear you like games where you get a hundred guys together to accomplish a goal, only to have 10 people undo all your progress over night while you sleep/go to work. Do you have a better idea than timers for protecting player generated structures from other players? It amazes me how people like you and me can see the folly of that kind of situation (and understand that the idea is pure stupid) and others just...can't.
Jenn aSide STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries 2826	Posted - 2013.09.20 19:21:00 - [506] - Quote baltec1 wrote: SC is what freelancer was meant to be. Its no threat to EVE. It's the secret dream of those who deeply hate EVE (but for some reason, can't admit it and can't stop playing) that something, anyhing take them away from EVE. Oddly enough, I have the same dream.......
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 4587	Posted - 2013.09.20 19:33:00 - [507] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Georgina Parmala wrote: I don't see anything about single-shard MMO in the snipet you posted. I do see Private server functionality though, which throws that single shard thing right out the window. That's right, private servers with private rules. Imagine if EVE did that, some people would have high sec servers with pvp turned completly off.... Sounds like a wonderful place There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over. "Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013
Jenn aSide STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries 2826	Posted - 2013.09.20 19:34:00 - [508] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Georgina Parmala wrote: I don't see anything about single-shard MMO in the snipet you posted. I do see Private server functionality though, which throws that single shard thing right out the window. That's right, private servers with private rules. Imagine if EVE did that, some people would have high sec servers with pvp turned completly off.... Sounds like ~~a wonderful place~~ TRAMMELL Fixed.
Hammer Crendraven Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 35	Posted - 2013.09.20 19:58:00 - [509] - Quote Tippia wrote: Infinity Ziona wrote: According to CCP 75% of players reside in high sec. No. According to CCP, 65% of characters are in highsec. Also, 75% of players like PvP and 73% of players like nullsec gameplay. Not quite true at least as of 2012 fanfest. 75% of the characters are in highsec. But if you run a filter and take out all players under 3 months old then you get 65% of the remaining characters (over 3 months old) are in high sec. They did this to demonstrate that players do move over time from high sec to low or null sec. As both showed a corresponding increase after 3 months old toons are filtered. Then they also compared what players like to do vs what they actually do do. And those do not add up very well either. You are using their data to scew your point of view. Players actually do a whole lot more PVE than they do PVP. Even though they say they like PVP better.
Dave Stark 3719	Posted - 2013.09.20 20:00:00 - [510] - Quote Hammer Crendraven wrote: Players actually do a whole lot more PVE than they do PVP. Even though they say they like PVP better. that's because you can lose isk a hell of a lot faster than you can make it. especially when you put it all in the back of a freighter.

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