Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 .. 17 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1710
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 10:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
As 4 months have past what is your view on the loot spew mechinac.
(Post comments about hacking mini-game here.) Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Batelle
RisingSuns
219
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 14:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
I just tried loot spew for the first time this week and I think its awful. It also seems a bit silly that of the 5 types of containers, only 1-2 of the types ever have anything worth going for. Its interesting that they made use of the cargo scanner, but really, the whole thing is just insult to injury. If we beat the damn minigame, then just give us the bacon already! The fact that ship agility plays a role, and you can't see what type a container is without mousing over it first are just stupid. Lastly, you're double clicking on stuff to get your ship to approach, yet often your ship gets hung up on the damn structure! Is there some way to tell which side the loot spew will come from?
There's no OTHER reason to bring a second character in besides the loot spew either. I think CCP got a little overzealous in making bot-proof gameplay.
Lastly, I do like the minigame. Fighting is Magic |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
1654
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 15:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
Still awful, still insulting. The minigame is at least some sort of game play element that increases player interaction (ie, blowing up covops frigs while they hack) but the loot spew doesn't accomplish anything but frustration. Without it I'd probably still run at least some professional sites in full but as is I'll scan for blueprints and just grab data cans if I see one I like. Nothing else is worth the random clicking, at least not to me. Though I fully respect all the people who are still doing it; keep those decryptor prices low! |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1503
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 16:40:00 -
[4] - Quote
i can only imagine the overlap between people who are dedicated enough to learn EVE and simple-minded enough to enjoy the simplistic loot spew mechanic to be very small, thus the feature is most likely highly annoying for a majority of the population.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
437
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 16:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:i can only imagine the overlap between people who are dedicated enough to learn EVE and simple-minded enough to enjoy the simplistic loot spew mechanic to be very small, thus the feature is most likely highly annoying for a majority of the population.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Not today spaghetti. |
Thanos The Mad-Titan
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
21
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 18:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
click the first data or parts container you see, mouseover as many as you can till you find data, click data and parts, accidentally click scraps, double click on parts as a response, ships goes off, alt-space, sigh and alt-C to see if your stuff is worth anything.
OR
Get loot in return for winning the mini-game, not second mini-game to see what your reward for the first mini-game is
Current iteration is awful |
Julius Priscus
166
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 19:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
I used to enjoy hacking and the other mini professions..
now its just a waste of skill points in its present carnation. I regret skilling up them mini profession skills to 5 for now. -»\_(pâä)_/-»-á Sup cracka ! |
Batelle
RisingSuns
222
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 19:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
Thanos The Mad-Titan wrote:
Get loot in return for winning the mini-game, not second mini-game to see what your reward for the first mini-game is
THIS Fighting is Magic |
Laiannah Sahireen
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 20:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
I echo the sentiments of everybody else in this thread, but I'd like to add that the COSMOS sites are now an exercise in futility and frustration. There's no rhyme or reason to what items drop in which cans and in some cases I swear I've grabbed everything but the scraps cans and still don't get the item I saw on the cargo scan.
I would love nothing more than the current hacking mini-game minus the frustrating loot spew. |
Marcus Walkuris
Aww yeahhh
18
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 20:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
Rofl such gallow humor to me this is. I actually wanted to get into the whole hacking scene, I saw the changes in the expansion and I shut that down hard lol. Shame cause I was looking forward to playing that part of the game, I really enjoyed going around scanning too (EvE fishing). Getting something that was hard to scan but useless was still fun, always someone I could make happy with a gravimetric scan if just for going in there with cameras and oohhhs and ahhsss. |
|
Julius Priscus
166
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 20:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
Marcus Walkuris wrote:Rofl such gallow humor to me this is. I actually wanted to get into the whole hacking scene, I saw the changes in the expansion and I shut that down hard lol. Shame cause I was looking forward to playing that part of the game, I really enjoyed going around scanning too (EvE fishing). Getting something that was hard to scan but useless was still fun, always someone I could make happy with a gravimetric scan if just for going in there with cameras and oohhhs and ahhsss.
I used to bring all my probes down to 25 au and nearly ontop of each other as well as faction items to improve scan str, I would find almost any site and that's with lvl 4 skills, I would drop one probe and have a good idea what was in local and scan it down.
as I have said before... if your hacking results score higher then the amount of cans "spewed" out should drop accordingly. if you do really badly then there should be lots and lots aka several. if you do really well. then at best a jet can with everything or just 1-3 cans running away.
-»\_(pâä)_/-»-á Sup cracka ! |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
280
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 00:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
I almost don't lose any "valuable" loot to spew. Just get the first can in super pronto.
Also I now get heron spawns in my relics, and the herons usually have more in them than any can does. |
Rexxorr
Zero Corp Tax2
45
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 00:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
Tried the new hacking mini game last week, loot spew is just god awful. |
Tzar Sinak
Mythic Heights
56
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 11:45:00 -
[14] - Quote
It is still a very weak mechanic. It is one of those things that needs to be removed but you know it never will. |
Myriad Blaze
77
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 12:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
Loot spew is awful and annoying.
Although I usually get the valuable stuff or at least most of it, I no longer care and shelved my explorer frigate. However, recently I started to go exploring again. I just changed my approach. Instead of using a Helios fitted for hacking relic and data sites I use a Nemesis fitted for ganking light vessels. Last weekend I fielded it for the first time. But I got bored after waiting one hour without someone showing up, so I'm still waiting for my first kill. Maybe I need to find a better place to play hide and seek than where I was. |
Batelle
RisingSuns
223
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 15:19:00 -
[16] - Quote
Marcus Walkuris wrote:Rofl such gallow humor to me this is. I actually wanted to get into the whole hacking scene, I saw the changes in the expansion and I shut that down hard lol. Shame cause I was looking forward to playing that part of the game, I really enjoyed going around scanning too (EvE fishing).
It wasn't exactly fun before either, just less annoying. Arrive at site, kill rats, open scan, kill newly spawned rats. Wait for like 20 cycles until it opens. Get loot. IMO before it was even worse, because of rats, and because without lvl 5 in the skill it would just take forever. Now with lvl 4 and a bonused ship you can still do it quite reasonably even in null. The big difference is the loot spew is the same in highsec and nullsec. I can stomach the loot spew better if there's something good to get in the can. Fighting is Magic |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1521
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 18:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ran a single high sec combat anom last night, the boss ship dropped a single faction module (other stuff, too, but still) worth 50x what the last 10 relic & data sites have dropped (not counting the usual garbage) combined.
Nuff said. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Davion Falcon
Those Once Loyal
65
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 03:14:00 -
[18] - Quote
It's still bloody annoying. Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise. Never forgotten, never forgiven. |
Marcus Walkuris
Aww yeahhh
18
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 08:56:00 -
[19] - Quote
Definitely not debating wether its better isk now then back then. Or wether its "worth" it but i'll take tedious over stressful any day. Racing after vanishing cans, just to be left wondering what you missed in the other can regardless of wether you get good loot but worse so if you get ******. It is just too "Obsessive Compulsive Disorder action packed" not to mention a permanently raised muscle tension. Looks to be stressful and not like a good adrenaline rushed PvP or a dangerous outgunned PvE encounter. |
Spankijs Omaristos
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Northern Associates.
50
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 11:31:00 -
[20] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Its Annoying. No Exploration for me :D |
|
Travis Marshal
Mass Effect Enterprises
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 13:54:00 -
[21] - Quote
Batelle wrote: If we beat the damn minigame, then just give us the bacon already! The fact that ship agility plays a role, and you can't see what type a container is without mousing over it first are just stupid. Lastly, you're double clicking on stuff to get your ship to approach, yet often your ship gets hung up on the damn structure!
Lastly, I do like the minigame.
Exactly the way I feel about it. I started doing exploration only because I liked the idea of randomness. Minigame also random (well pseudo, maybe) and fun. Clicking mini containers is boring like hell. Nothing good about it. |
Mnemosyne Gloob
Acerbus Vindictum Stealth Wear Inc.
128
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 19:40:00 -
[22] - Quote
The only thing i do with relic/data sites anymore is grab my bomber when i see someone doing one and feel like it.
Before i would actually run some hacking sites once in a while, nowadays it doesnt seem justified to me to do them really (in lowsec).
[edit]as i would only occasionally do them i guess i 'could' live with the minigame and container picking (only thing i really dislike about it is that the mechanics about what type drops which loot became public knowledge basically at release day, making the whole thing redundant)[/edit] |
Arec Bardwin
1169
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 21:14:00 -
[23] - Quote
Well, the content designers at CCP thought the loot spew game was fresh and entertaining. That's good enough for me |
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
347
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 18:44:00 -
[24] - Quote
I was happy to see the addition of a minigame for hacking, and something that seemed easy enough that it wouldn't ruin the experience by taking too long.
What has ruined the experience, however, is this idiotic loot spew.
But even that I was eventually ok with. Then I found out the cans disappear if you don't grab them fast enough. If you go for this one instead of that one. Then I stopped caring about exploration at all.
Exploration was my favorite activity in this game. I did missions and incursions for money, I explored for fun..
I realize the community hates industrialists, and I realize by the nature of the game CCP will let things like hulkageddon and 'mining permits' and such go on. But to see something like this; to see the devs blatantly state their contempt for so many players, was a little shocking and disheartening.
It's not enough we're in an exploration fit, and therefore give up our ability to fight at all, let alone pvp. It's not enough you put in the minigame so we can't watch local, or dscan. It's not enough that the cans go flying allowing anyone at all to grab the loot you worked for. You have to screw us over even if we're alone in the system? Seriously?
I've already accepted being a second class citizen in this game as someone who enjoys mining and building things, so I'm not going to ragequit over this. I just expected more maturity out of the devs. |
Julius Priscus
166
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 20:35:00 -
[25] - Quote
why not make mining the same as the mini game?? after one cycle you get jet can spew and you have to grab your minerals you mined before they expire?
yes yes sounds good to me!!! -»\_(pâä)_/-»-á Sup cracka ! |
Kaivar Lancer
Metropolis Acquisition Services
333
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 13:57:00 -
[26] - Quote
Loot spew is an embarrassment. |
Icarus Able
Traverse Holdings Setting The Universe on Fire
136
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 14:11:00 -
[27] - Quote
Its awful exploration is what caught my eye in this game. Now i never do it, its just boring. The combat was fun not to mention the fun of dodging gatecamps without covert ops cloaks.
I could deal without that. But the loot spew...Just no. |
Buzz Madullier
The Essence of Nike
6
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 00:34:00 -
[28] - Quote
All You need to know about the cans...
Relic Sites
Data Containers Blueprint Copies Spatial Attunement Unit Skill Books Equipment Containers Spatial Attunement Unit Material Containers T1/T2 Salvage Spatial Attunement Unit Parts Containers T1/T2 Salvage Spatial Attunement Unit Scraps Containers Spatial Attunement Unit
Data Sites
Data Containers Blueprint Copies Spatial Attunement Unit Skill Books Equipment Containers Spatial Attunement Unit Material Containers Faction Alloys Spatial Attunement Unit Parts Containers Decryptors Datacores Spatial Attunement Unit Scraps Containers Spatial Attunement Unit
but... that doesn't make it any less frustrating, and possibly more frustrating when you get a can that is supposed to have 12 different T1/T2 salvage types and you get 3+ junk items from parts and material cans in a row and all the rest start to disappear and you only end up getting like 2 out of the 12 by the end. |
Hesod Adee
Turalyon Plus Turalyon Alliance
104
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 01:15:00 -
[29] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:i can only imagine the overlap between people who are dedicated enough to learn EVE and simple-minded enough to enjoy the simplistic loot spew mechanic to be very small, thus the feature is most likely highly annoying for a majority of the population. Agreed. If it wasn't for the loot spew, I'd have done more exploration as I enjoy the hacking part.
But the loot spew sucks all that enjoyment back out of it.
It doesn't help that the cans disappearing makes no sense at all. They have been in the site for years, why is a few seconds enough to pop them ?
Why does every ship have a tractor beam that only works on the spew ? |
Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
32
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 18:23:00 -
[30] - Quote
It was not EVE like, unfun and pretty annoying 4 months ago and in that time it has only gotten worse.
I would like to lewt spew the dev who's baby this element is because it is just plain dumb.
I understand it is not going anywhere since some dev is the father of this still born hot mess that is exploration/hacking.
One can hope. |
|
AB5URD
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 05:17:00 -
[31] - Quote
Buzz Madullier wrote:
but... that doesn't make it any less frustrating, and possibly more frustrating when you get a can that is supposed to have 12 different T1/T2 salvage types and you get 3+ junk items from parts and material cans in a row and all the rest start to disappear and you only end up getting like 2 out of the 12 by the end.
In all sites go for DATA containers first if BLUEPRINTS are present then -
Data Sites: PARTS (Decryptors & Datacores) Relic Sites: PARTS & MATERIALS (Salvage T1 & T2) Gas Sites: EQUIPMENT (Implants & Modules)
But yes I agree loot spew is frustrating. |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
221
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:30:00 -
[32] - Quote
easy:
i feel robbed for the training time i spent on my exploration toon, which is now unsub an is not giving any more bucks to CCP for 4 month, and will stay in this state unless they roll it back or i need this account to train the toon in something else.
plain and simple |
Rekon X
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
39
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 23:02:00 -
[33] - Quote
It's lame, simple as that.
Guess the objective is to add more click, click, click. |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
1124
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 23:11:00 -
[34] - Quote
Exploration is still barred behind awful scanning mini-game so I'm still ignoring it. |
Julius Priscus
167
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 00:40:00 -
[35] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:Exploration is still barred behind awful scanning mini-game so I'm still ignoring it.
what are you ignoring again???
sorry I have a mental block as far as certain pve "mechanics" go, in eve online ... -»\_(pâä)_/-»-á Sup cracka ! |
BobFenner
Black Hole Runners Brainfarts
82
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 09:58:00 -
[36] - Quote
It would be nice if CCP or a member of the CSM would comment on these broken and obviously intensely disliked changes. But I guess that will not happen as some bright spark at CCP came up with this god awful idea in the first place. My missus thinks of EvE as 'the other woman'. :) |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
640
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 21:56:00 -
[37] - Quote
BobFenner wrote:It would be nice if CCP or a member of the CSM would comment on these broken and obviously intensely disliked changes. But I guess that will not happen as some bright spark at CCP came up with this god awful idea in the first place. I'm not quite sure what everyones whining about? How hard is it to click a little dot when its green. If you know what loot cans are which you can almost always get what you most want from the can when it ejects the loot. If you got everything they probably wouldn't have included as much in the cans to reduce profit. So who cares. If you're smart you'll do better than others, which is how things should be.
and yeah I have lost a few expensive things, like 320 mill skill-book but who cares, part of the deal. |
Lady Naween
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
230
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 03:46:00 -
[38] - Quote
hate it with a passion. first there is one annoying mini game, then.., another.
I hate minigames. very rarely have I enjoyed a mini game within a game, last time was.. eh.. chocobo riding in final fantasy seven. yeah that long ago. and back then I was young and dumb. |
Julius Priscus
168
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 05:59:00 -
[39] - Quote
Lady Naween wrote:hate it with a passion. first there is one annoying mini game, then.., another.
I hate minigames. very rarely have I enjoyed a mini game within a game, last time was.. eh.. chocobo riding in final fantasy seven. yeah that long ago. and back then I was young and dumb.
I say make space invaders the new mini game...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=437Ld_rKM2s
and everytime a mother ship flies across the top its a faction spawn..
-»\_(pâä)_/-»-á Sup cracka ! |
Sum Olgy
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
24
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 08:28:00 -
[40] - Quote
I hate loot spew. It's infuriating. and with can scanning or knowledge into can contents the whole thing becomes almost an exploit.
It really needs work. |
|
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
541
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 11:42:00 -
[41] - Quote
Lady Naween wrote:I hate minigames. very rarely have I enjoyed a mini game within a game, last time was.. eh.. chocobo riding in final fantasy seven. yeah that long ago. and back then I was young and dumb.
Chocobo riding \o/ Not today spaghetti. |
Kaivar Lancer
Metropolis Acquisition Services
346
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 16:02:00 -
[42] - Quote
Went back to exploring again. The hacking mini-game is tolerable.
But man, the loot spew at the end is immersion breaking. You have to zoom out REALLY far to see all the cans, and squint as you move your cursor over each pixel, err I mean "can", looking for the right one to loot. And heaven forbid if you play Eve via a wireless or network connection, since the lag can cost you precious seconds and a few cans.
Horrible. |
Jacque Custeau
Knights of the Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 17:30:00 -
[43] - Quote
I have been doing this for two months, I agree with what everyone is saying about the loot spew. I would like to also to point out the following:
1- In COSMOS/Drug sites, the cans are located inside dust clouds that obscure the view of the loot spew. In my opinion they simply did not test this inside dust clouds or other plex 'decor' options
2- Some items like reactions have been spotted in Equipment, Material and Data containers. Much harder to snatch up
3- Same mini-game for hacking and archeology means that one of them is just a huge time sink. |
Thane Shimaya
Shimaya and Sons Extraction Co.
2
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 06:33:00 -
[44] - Quote
I despise it. Exploring sites used to be an enjoyable pass-time for me. No longer... Well. This changes things... |
Vrykolakasis
Trinity Operations Aurora Irae
90
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 09:17:00 -
[45] - Quote
I tested out the hacking mini game for the first time, didn't like it but didn't hate it, but abandoned the whole exploration thing after the loot spew. |
Capt Amer'ca
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Get Off My Lawn
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 17:54:00 -
[46] - Quote
Absolutely hate it.
If players were getting too much loot before, why not just reduced the amount of loot in relic and data sites instead of punishing us with this repetitive strain injury inducing "mini-game" ? |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
336
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 17:59:00 -
[47] - Quote
anyone having trouble with loot spew, I've found better results using this method:
1. cargo scan, identify if you need to grab data cans or not. 2. click on parts cans. When one is tractoring, identify the next part can to queue it up. 3. Search for other parts cans, or materials if you're in a relic. 4. For the last few cans only, start double clicking or pulsing your prop mod to get them.
Still annoying as hell, and only remotely justified as some kind of anti-botting thing. Fighting is Magic |
Higgs Foton
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
5
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 00:29:00 -
[48] - Quote
mini game is ok, loot spew needs to go. Irritating as hell. Just do minigame and grap lewtz from container. |
Ssabat Thraxx
Rokh You like a Hurricane The Explicit Alliance
34
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 00:35:00 -
[49] - Quote
Higgs Foton wrote:mini game is ok, loot spew needs to go.
qft
|
Gigabyte m3
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
11
|
Posted - 2013.11.18 16:07:00 -
[50] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Higgs Foton wrote:mini game is ok, loot spew needs to go. qft
Agree, the let spew adds nothing good to the game. Only aggravation. CCP FIX THIS TRAVESTY! |
|
Princess Bride
Corripe Cervisiam Trade Consortium
611
|
Posted - 2013.11.18 16:25:00 -
[51] - Quote
Exploration GOOD. Mini-game okay. Loot spew BAD. http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/ |
Kaivar Lancer
Metropolis Acquisition Services
348
|
Posted - 2013.11.19 06:15:00 -
[52] - Quote
The worse part is when cans spew out close to each other and it's near-impossible to check / click each separate can. Very bad design. |
Auduin Samson
Do not disturb Sanctuary Pact
122
|
Posted - 2013.11.19 07:21:00 -
[53] - Quote
I agree. The mini game is kind of nice to the point that it actually feels like you're accomplishing something instead of just waiting for a cycle to succeed. The loot spew is horrific though. |
Ryu BullFrog
Traverse Holdings Setting The Universe on Fire
2
|
Posted - 2013.11.19 08:50:00 -
[54] - Quote
it's said in the 2nd rubicon developtment video that spew mechanics will be out u guys know if it is only for ghost sites or is it for all? |
Dato Koppla
Retribution Innovations
371
|
Posted - 2013.11.19 08:57:00 -
[55] - Quote
Ryu BullFrog wrote:it's said in the 2nd rubicon developtment video that spew mechanics will be out u guys know if it is only for ghost sites or is it for all?
Only for ghost sites. |
Silmas Feanarius
iFly Holdings Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
6
|
Posted - 2013.11.19 09:03:00 -
[56] - Quote
I sound out of line, but I'd say I don't find the loot spew as strain-inducing and a stress generator as many seem to find. Could have something to do with playing Eve with a good mouse and on a 22-inch widescreen? Personally I have other issues with the loot spew, e.g.: most of the cans are meaningless, both in data and relic sites. In data sites it goes like this: - If the can had blueprints in it, pick a couple data containers. - grab ALL the parts! - ...and the parts ONLY, ignore the rest. - if you didn't catch all decryptors/datacores, and/or if you have time left, grab some equipment, there's the remote possibility something is in there too.
In relic sites, on the other hand, it goes like this: - If the can had blueprints in it, pick a couple data containers. - grab ALL the parts! - ...and the parts ONLY, ignore the rest (for now). - if you didn't catch all juicy T2 salvage, and/or if you have time left, grab some materials. - ??? - PROFIT!
...unless there are some spatial attunemet units in the mix, in that case (AFTER you're done with data and parts) you'd want to grab any and all containers within reach.
Can you spot the similarities? I did a month of exploration, which is probably not statistically relevant, but not too few either, and I found all containers except data and parts to be virtually worthless. Maybe something has to be done about this. Another useful thing would be a skill which extends the lifespan on mini cans. I believe such a skill will be added in future expansions? Read about it somewhere, but can't remember where.
I have more issues with the hacking mini game, but that has his own thread. Cunnu 'e mamma tua bagassa limpia. |
Kaivar Lancer
Metropolis Acquisition Services
351
|
Posted - 2013.11.19 13:11:00 -
[57] - Quote
Silmas Feanarius wrote:I Another useful thing would be a skill which extends the lifespan on mini cans.
I'm sure there's an implant that extends can life by 5 seconds.
|
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
813
|
Posted - 2013.11.19 14:48:00 -
[58] - Quote
Silmas Feanarius wrote:I sound out of line, but I'd say I don't find the loot spew as strain-inducing and a stress generator as many seem to find. Could have something to do with playing Eve with a good mouse and on a 22-inch widescreen? Personally I have other issues with the loot spew, e.g.: most of the cans are meaningless, both in data and relic sites. In data sites it goes like this: - If the can had blueprints in it, pick a couple data containers. - grab ALL the parts! - ...and the parts ONLY, ignore the rest. - if you didn't catch all decryptors/datacores, and/or if you have time left, grab some equipment, there's the remote possibility something is in there too.
In relic sites, on the other hand, it goes like this: - If the can had blueprints in it, pick a couple data containers. - grab ALL the parts! - ...and the parts ONLY, ignore the rest (for now). - if you didn't catch all juicy T2 salvage, and/or if you have time left, grab some materials. - ??? - PROFIT!
...unless there are some spatial attunemet units in the mix, in that case (AFTER you're done with data and parts) you'd want to grab any and all containers within reach.
Can you spot the similarities? I did a month of exploration, which is probably not statistically relevant, but not too few either, and I found all containers except data and parts to be virtually worthless. Maybe something has to be done about this. Another useful thing would be a skill which extends the lifespan on mini cans. I believe such a skill will be added in future expansions? Read about it somewhere, but can't remember where.
I have more issues with the hacking mini game, but that has his own thread. I think it should be more random. Just eject the cans as generic cans. Then its pure pot luck whether you get good stuff or crap. Horrible idea you probably think, but I think it'd get rid of a lot of the whiners (they don't like non-consistent non-perfect un-reliable ticks) and leave exploration for the people who enjoy that score! feeling.. while increasing the value of the stuff you do loot as its availability would decrease dramatically. |
Existential
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.19 15:50:00 -
[59] - Quote
I personally like the loot spew....
Said no one ever. It is a very annoying mechanic, who the hell thought of this? |
Julius Priscus
169
|
Posted - 2013.11.19 15:52:00 -
[60] - Quote
anyone able to confirm if all loot spewing is now gone??? -»\_(pâä)_/-»-á Sup cracka ! |
|
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
377
|
Posted - 2013.11.19 16:05:00 -
[61] - Quote
Julius Priscus wrote:anyone able to confirm if all loot spewing is now gone???
No one ever said it would be gone in the first place. Ghost sites however have no loot spew, and the rubicon launch video quotes a dev acknowledging how much people hate loot spew. Fighting is Magic |
Silmas Feanarius
iFly Holdings Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
6
|
Posted - 2013.11.19 16:34:00 -
[62] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:I have more issues with the hacking mini game, but that has his own thread. I think it should be more random. Just eject the cans as generic cans. Then its pure pot luck whether you get good stuff or crap. Horrible idea you probably think, but I think it'd get rid of a lot of the whiners (they don't like non-consistent non-perfect un-reliable ticks) and leave exploration for the people who enjoy that score! feeling.. while increasing the value of the stuff you do loot as its availability would decrease dramatically.[/quote]
Well, for one, I know I would never explore again if the loot spew was also random. Also loot found in profession sites is not exclusive to those, so availability would not decrease. If the loot value was increased (by increasing quantity found in sites), however... Cunnu 'e mamma tua bagassa limpia. |
rikki55
Battle With Halibut Swords
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.19 16:55:00 -
[63] - Quote
Princess Bride wrote:Exploration GOOD. Mini-game okay. Loot spew BAD. This |
Capt Amer'ca
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Get Off My Lawn
1
|
Posted - 2013.11.19 18:57:00 -
[64] - Quote
If this thread reaches 100 pages, do you think they will listen to us? |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
384
|
Posted - 2013.11.19 19:01:00 -
[65] - Quote
Capt Amer'ca wrote:If this thread reaches 100 pages, do you think they will listen to us?
they know we hate it already. Fighting is Magic |
Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
167
|
Posted - 2013.11.19 20:17:00 -
[66] - Quote
Odyssey has artificially boosted my killboard with solo frigate kills. Apart from that, I hate the way exploration has changed. The loot spew being the final slap in the face. Tried it over 4 months and despite some nice ISK the 'atmosphere' of exploration has gone.
Mini-game + loot spew has soiled a very special place in Eve. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
388
|
Posted - 2013.11.19 21:30:00 -
[67] - Quote
Zen Dad wrote:Odyssey has artificially boosted my killboard with solo frigate kills. Apart from that, I hate the way exploration has changed. The loot spew being the final slap in the face. Tried it over 4 months and despite some nice ISK the 'atmosphere' of exploration has gone.
Mini-game + loot spew has soiled a very special place in Eve.
minigame is fine. Way better than shooting rats with a data-analyzer ship or sitting and watching your modules cycle ad nauseum. That was pretty much the definition of no-content. Now we have something that requires attention, can be screwed up, and actually gives you a damn good reason to train level 5 hacking.
And I also seem to be one of the very few old-timey explorers who sees Odyssey as a massive quality of life improvement rather than saying something to the affect of "wahh the interface doesn't suck anymore and now other people are exploring too!" Fighting is Magic |
Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
167
|
Posted - 2013.11.19 22:15:00 -
[68] - Quote
Batelle wrote: Now we have something that requires attention, Sipping a whisky whilst the can was hacked fully held my attention. Sacrificed to satisfy the hyperactive. |
Kayak Attack
Spartan's DNA Apex.
6
|
Posted - 2013.11.19 23:51:00 -
[69] - Quote
adding my piece to the pile. everyone still hates it. |
Gosch Ti
Crazy Eddie Industries Incorporated
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 12:11:00 -
[70] - Quote
Tried Exploration 2 weeks before Odyssey for the first time. I like the new scanning interface and I also like the minigame.
But why they want crazy with loot spew I can't even begin to understand.
If you no what containers to get it get's easier. But having all shiny parts containers spew out on the other side of the cache and winding up with carbon and data sheets is just ..... "not ok" |
|
Silmas Feanarius
iFly Holdings Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
6
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 12:34:00 -
[71] - Quote
Zen Dad wrote:Batelle wrote: Now we have something that requires attention, Sipping a whisky whilst the can was hacked fully held my attention. Sacrificed to satisfy the hyperactive.
This is also legit. Teaches not to explore with neutrals in local while in alliance space, nor alone in hisec, nor without backup or reconnaissance everywhere else. Every mechanic should be like this, open to emergent gameplay. Cunnu 'e mamma tua bagassa limpia. |
Ristlin Wakefield
Pentag Blade Curatores Veritatis Alliance
365
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 14:49:00 -
[72] - Quote
I don't mind the mini-game, I do hate the loot spew. If there's a petition to remove it then point me in that direction, because I'll sign it and get everyone I know to sign it too. I have a lover, her name is EVE. I see her every night and all she asks in return is that I have a pilot's license. |
Caveat Emptoris
All Goats Must Die
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 14:56:00 -
[73] - Quote
Loot spew is terrible. We already won the minigame, and at least that one is primarily skill-based. In order to guarantee I get every can from a successful hack now requires bringing an alt, or making corpmates sit around waiting for me to complete hacks. This isn't emergent gameplay-inducing. The only thing it induces is carpal tunnel and vertigo from having to zoom in, out, and around at the molecular scale in order to see the mini-containers.
CCP, please change this. Make hacking harder, or whatever you need to do to balance things. I didn't sign up and train for exploration so that I could play Hungry Hungry Hippo Online. |
XmonkTad
Spectrum Entertainment Spectrum Alliance
8
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 19:31:00 -
[74] - Quote
I suppose I'm going to be the odd man out, but here it is: I like the loot spew. I've said it before, and I stand by it. However, it still needs some work. Right now it is entirely based on pilot skill and ship agility. There is no skill book that gives you extra time to pick up the cans, and there is only one implant (a slot 10 prospector that costs 25 mil) that gives gives you an extra 5 seconds to the container decay time. The mechanic is heavily luck based, and hurts users who have lag during the spew event.
What needs to change is the way we interact with the spew. Tractor beams work on the container, but they don't actually collect the loot automatically, and even having the cans next to you doesn't help you collect them any faster. Fitting dedicated modules should help with the task. We need help with the spew. Maybe activating a tractor beam on the hacking container would automatically condense the loot into a regular can?
The spew takes the place of a really tired mechanic, which was essentially the same as mining but with rats that had to be killed. I'm not saying that any mechanic is better than the old one, just that the old sites felt more like combat or mining than exploration. Exploration without the rats would feel very passive if there was no loot spew. It would be really dull. It would be mining with minigames attached. Now, it's a slot machine with a minigame instead. Also, the coins run away after you've won them. And other people try and pick them up. Forget the slot machine analogy. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
414
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 20:03:00 -
[75] - Quote
loot spew is a pain but so far it seems pretty hard to actually miss anything good if you have a cargo scanner. Fighting is Magic |
Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
146
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 20:04:00 -
[76] - Quote
Oh my..... |
Caveat Emptoris
All Goats Must Die
1
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 21:37:00 -
[77] - Quote
XmonkTad wrote:I suppose I'm going to be the odd man out, but here it is: I like the loot spew. I've said it before, and I stand by it. However, it still needs some work. Right now it is entirely based on pilot skill and ship agility. There is no skill book that gives you extra time to pick up the cans, and there is only one implant (a slot 10 prospector that costs 25 mil) that gives gives you an extra 5 seconds to the container decay time. The mechanic is heavily luck based, and hurts users who have lag during the spew event. What needs to change is the way we interact with the spew. Tractor beams work on the container, but they don't actually collect the loot automatically, and even having the cans next to you doesn't help you collect them any faster. Fitting dedicated modules should help with the task. We need help with the spew. Maybe activating a tractor beam on the hacking container would automatically condense the loot into a regular can? The spew takes the place of a really tired mechanic, which was essentially the same as mining but with rats that had to be killed. I'm not saying that any mechanic is better than the old one, just that the old sites felt more like combat or mining than exploration. Exploration without the rats would feel very passive if there was no loot spew. It would be really dull. It would be mining with minigames attached. Now, it's a slot machine with a minigame instead. Also, the coins run away after you've won them. And other people try and pick them up. Forget the slot machine analogy.
If loot spew were the only barrier to getting the loot out, then I think I'd not be bothered as much by it, although honestly it is a minigame designed to be terribly frustrating to anyone with a history of RSI. I don't have issues with this as much as I did years back, but it's a factor worth considering. The 4x4 pixel-sized cans spawn practically on top of each other, even zoomed in...I have a $100 mouse and I still feel as if it requires feats of serious agility to click here-but-not-there.
Pick a minigame to stand between us and loot, and stick with it. Hell, if they bolted some sort of 3-card monty "you've won" element into the minigame window itself, I'd be fine with that. But the EVE interface is particularly poorly suited to this sort of micro-selection mechanic. It's a game where we use an overview with all the sexiness of an Excel spreadsheet to control almost everything we do. There's a reason for that: in-space selection and execution are weaknesses of this UI. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
5632
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 23:29:00 -
[78] - Quote
I don't hate the spew, but I think it was mistake to use it on all successful hacking attempts. It's largely a pointless mini-game after the hacking mini-game, so at the very least a successful hack on the first attempt should just allow you to directly access all the loot. Spew should happen only if your first attempt failed. This sort of granularity would also encourage people to invest money and time in getting the hacking done successfully on the first try and reward those who invested in it or are just good at it.
That said my actual problem with current exploration has little to do with the loot spew. It has to do with CCP taking exploration out of exploration in their supposedly exploration focused expansion. It truly is just treasure hunting now and CCP doesn't seem to have any intention to bring exploring back to exploration. The change wasn't earth shattering, but it was enough of a change to kill most of my interest in the profession and unsub my exploration alt. I don't mind treasure hunting as a profession, but I didn't want to sacrifice exploration to get more of it, since I just don't have the same level of interest in the activity.
You can argue that there is only minor differences between the two, so why does it matter, but they're still important differences for some. In the same vein there are only a few differences between doing some DED sites and mission sites, but some people can tolerate DED sites quite well, while they would rather quit playing then grind missions for a living. I don't want to derail the topic, but just wanted to point this out in case anyone in CCP ever reads this, since the removal of loot spew will have pretty much zero affect in my decision to resub the exploration alt. What matters is their willingness to bring exploring, as in putting in some proper effort to even detect the signatures, back to exploration. In my book the loot spew is just a minor detail in the grand scheme of things. |
Dato Koppla
Retribution Innovations
379
|
Posted - 2013.11.21 01:15:00 -
[79] - Quote
Just dropping by to agree that loot spew is indeed terrible and needs to be removed. |
Meghel
SilfMeg Mining and Transportation Co
18
|
Posted - 2013.11.21 12:32:00 -
[80] - Quote
Loot Spew +ánd the Hacking Minigame are terrible.
-
The Hacking Minigame was at least interesting the first 20 times. After that, it got boring and repetitive. Click-Click-Click-Click.... Pfft, BOOOORING.
After that, I longed back for the old idea; Container hacked/Analyzed -> its open. Have fun.
There is nothing interesting regarding the Hacking that would make including it in the game worthwhile... Unless spending more time at Hacking and Analyzing is the Grand Idea that CCP has for this game.
Sounds more like someone's Pet Project; "I WANT this so we WILL GET THIS" regardless of use and desirability.
-
The Loot Spew is, quite frankly, horrible.
A Bad Idea with Bad Mechanics.
"Yeah, lets add many containers, containing somtimes usefull things and sometimes junk, let them spew around so people have to try and grab then." As If the Hacking/Analyzing is not bad enough....
Again, a Useless and Time Consuming Thing
- |
|
Jayne Tamm
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2013.11.21 14:15:00 -
[81] - Quote
What CCP need to do is the following;
When you 'Complete' the hacking mini game....you should be able to access the container and loot it.
BUT
If you 'Fail' the hacking mini game...then the container should spew the loot. Maybe decrease the time the loot stays in space so that you can only grab 2 or 3 cans if you're quick.
This would make a lot more sense in my eyes. |
Meghel
SilfMeg Mining and Transportation Co
18
|
Posted - 2013.11.21 15:50:00 -
[82] - Quote
Jayne Tamm wrote:What CCP need to do is the following;
When you 'Complete' the hacking mini game....you should be able to access the container and loot it.
BUT
If you 'Fail' the hacking mini game...then the container should spew the loot. Maybe decrease the time the loot stays in space so that you can only grab 2 or 3 cans if you're quick.
This would make a lot more sense in my eyes. I must say, that would make a LOT more sense... |
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
559
|
Posted - 2013.11.21 16:34:00 -
[83] - Quote
Why is loot spew still in the game? Not today spaghetti. |
dexington
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
886
|
Posted - 2013.11.21 18:37:00 -
[84] - Quote
The loot spray could be removed from hackable gas sites.
It's annoying having to bring both data analyzer and cargo scanner, when you still have to fit tank and weapons. And it's even more annoying having to grab the loot, when the white could background makes it almost impossible to read the text telling you which type the can is. I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Jeremiah Saken
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.21 19:52:00 -
[85] - Quote
Loot thing was introduced to EvE to encourage players to explore in group. I don't think the goal was accomplised (not for most of exploring player base). It is reflex based and some luck. There are so many post since Odyssey complaing about how bad this new mechanism is but only few what to do with whole starting idea (group exploration). I don't think it will magicaly disappear in near future but i have some ideas how to improve it:
Add some new subsystems to hacking such as:
- airlock subsystem (after hack loot will not be sprayed or sprayed with slower speed)
- grid map subsystem (after hacking it will show whole grid with unclicked subsytems covered but shown as potentialy defense nodes or user soft, player will have more influance to plan whole hack)
- can register subsystem (after hack will show can content so players will have an option to refit hull with some other equipment than cargo scanner)
all above was mainly for solo, but:
in hack attempt done in group one person is hacking and others are waiting for candies to catch. Why not let second and more person help breaking the can airlock. They just start the hack from other corner of the grid (i don't know if this kind of interaction can be implemented in code).
I really like the hacking concept. This is where solo and group exploration should focus. It has great potential not only in exploration but needs to be polished. |
AnzacPaul
Capital Storm. JIHADASQUAD
115
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 11:14:00 -
[86] - Quote
Loot spew is awful and should be removed, but it won't be. |
Ristlin Wakefield
Pentag Blade Curatores Veritatis Alliance
366
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 18:56:00 -
[87] - Quote
Jayne Tamm wrote:What CCP need to do is the following;
When you 'Complete' the hacking mini game....you should be able to access the container and loot it.
BUT
If you 'Fail' the hacking mini game...then the container should spew the loot. Maybe decrease the time the loot stays in space so that you can only grab 2 or 3 cans if you're quick.
This would make a lot more sense in my eyes.
You are a damned Genius! That would make more sense, they could even cut the loot-spew time so you have less time to click. That would balance out the fact that you "failed" while still giving the dude who programmed the loot spew something to be proud about. I have a lover, her name is EVE. I see her every night and all she asks in return is that I have a pilot's license. |
Lady Ariona
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
3
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 19:44:00 -
[88] - Quote
On the Hacking: The hacking is a good concept. It helps take something that was equivalent to salvaging and differentiates it. That being said, it is a little disconcertingly random at times, which can be problematic. Furthermore, there is no differentiation between Relic Analyzer and Data Analyzer, other than the type of cans that you can hack. They should work on something to make these two distinct, rather than having them basically be the same function split to two skills.
On the Loot Spew: As said multiple times, only 1-2 types of cans are useful to grab, it's tedious, it's not particularly difficult, nor is it particularly fun. It penalizes players who haven't done hacking enough to know what is worth grabbing, and is generally a PITA. Adhocrat Former Morsus Mihi pilot / E-UNI Graduate
Researcher into Sleeper and Talocan Technology and History |
Jeremiah Saken
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 23:04:00 -
[89] - Quote
Quote:On the Loot Spew: As said multiple times, only 1-2 types of cans are useful to grab, it's tedious, it's not particularly difficult, nor is it particularly fun.
If you spread the loot beetwen other types of can it will become more difficult and not fun at all (especially for solo explorers). Whole concept of loot exploding in your face, in game not based on reflex and agility, is really ill. Worst part of it, as i read feedback before odyssey, explorers were indicate it as bad design. Devs are really touchy when it comes to criticize their splendid ideas. Can't blame them really but five wheel car, no matter how good it looks, is a bad design.
Quote: Furthermore, there is no differentiation between Relic Analyzer and Data Analyzer, other than the type of cans that you can hack. They should work on something to make these two distinct, rather than having them basically be the same function split to two skills.
It had sense when there was cycle on analyzer. Archeo wreck was analyzed for few cycles and show what loot is worth to grab. Now its just second hacking device with different sound. It should be just one device for all. It still has cycle time on skill so it was not really thought over.
I hope they didn't switch loot fireworks with roullete exploding mechanism from ghost sites. I don't buy the concept of this new chimera sites (they're not exploration but they need exploration devices).
This game focus strongly on PvP so other aspects of it are underestimated by Devs. EvE hits 10 and they still balancing hulls and weapons.
Hacking must be more complex. Not just click, click, click, won. |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
291
|
Posted - 2013.11.25 01:16:00 -
[90] - Quote
*shrug*... Does it really matter what we think? They asked what we thought when they were rolling it out on the Test Server. We were rather up-front that it was not a very engaging mechanic and that we did not particularly enjoy it. They ignored us, rubber stamped it as "tested", and just pushed it thru. So... yeah. They'll get around to it when they feel like it. You could probably use PI as a good measuring stick.
|
|
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
721
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 23:25:00 -
[91] - Quote
Actually is only a time sink, not more engaging than the old rats.
To be decent should be more complicated and in line with EVE standards. Less random, more modules and skills involved, different scripts and virus to load in the Analyzer, add different characteristics fo Relic and Data, not only the loot; and so on...
|
Dato Koppla
Retribution Innovations
391
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 23:44:00 -
[92] - Quote
Have we heard nothing from CCP on their stance on loot spew? They seem quick enough to respond to threads where people are praising them (like for mobile depot, ghost sites etc) but nowhere to be seen on this issue that the majority of the community agrees needs to go. |
Miriya Zakalwe
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 02:30:00 -
[93] - Quote
As a new player, my perspective here is maybe not super valuable, but for me, the minigame is fine but the loot spew annoying enough that I decided to completely ignore exploration as a career for the moment.
Obviously, YMMV. |
Klatus Doshu
Deutsche Technik Space Angels
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 08:40:00 -
[94] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote::
Add some new subsystems to hacking such as:
- airlock subsystem (after hack loot will not be sprayed or sprayed with slower speed)
- grid map subsystem (after hacking it will show whole grid with unclicked subsytems covered but shown as potentialy defense nodes or user soft, player will have more influance to plan whole hack)
- can register subsystem (after hack will show can content so players will have an option to refit hull with some other equipment than cargo scanner)
all above was mainly for solo, but:
in hack attempt done in group one person is hacking and others are waiting for candies to catch. Why not let second and more person help breaking the can airlock. They just start the hack from other corner of the grid (i don't know if this kind of interaction can be implemented in code).
I really like the hacking concept. This is where solo and group exploration should focus. It has great potential not only in exploration but needs to be polished.
I like that!
But what about using the analyzer to see what it is in the can --> you need more skill to analyze difficult cans And use the codebreaker for relic and data site cans By this you won't need a cargo scanner anymore (one more mid) and it would be more difficult to do cherry picking Curios about your thought |
Amber Kurvora
110
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 09:49:00 -
[95] - Quote
The can spew can seem a slap in the face when you've scanned it down, hacked it and then promptly miss out on the shiny. Relics in Low and high need a serious buff to bring them in line with data sites. It's hardly worth checking them out except for the temptation of faction loot. Going back to the can spew when it comes to relics, it'd be nice to have the t2 parts be consistently in the parts cans and not the materials whenever the site decides it.
A better way to have implemented the game, would be to make it so the hacking game dictates what is dropped in a single can. You hack it first time and you get all the shiny. Fail first time and it randomizes what is dropped. Fail a second time and you lose it all. |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
349
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 11:50:00 -
[96] - Quote
Amber Kurvora wrote:The can spew can seem a slap in the face when you've scanned it down, hacked it and then promptly miss out on the shiny. Relics in Low and high need a serious buff to bring them in line with data sites. It's hardly worth checking them out except for the temptation of faction loot. Going back to the can spew when it comes to relics, it'd be nice to have the t2 parts be consistently in the parts cans and not the materials whenever the site decides it.
A better way to have implemented the game, would be to make it so the hacking game dictates what is dropped in a single can. You hack it first time and you get all the shiny. Fail first time and it randomizes what is dropped. Fail a second time and you lose it all.
You learn which type of can has which type of thing, and you prioritise the cans you yank back based on the cargo scan.
As I've said before, I do not lose valuables to loot spew. If a tower bpc spawns in a data, I can assure you I will loot the tower bpc. I would not care if I missed out on a disc in a parts can, because I was yanking back all the data cans to make sure I got the bpc.
You get plenty of time to decide your triage strategy for when the cans appear.
The point to loot spew is that you -must- pay attention to it, so you need to do your d-scan / check local whatever immediately before it - its a discipline check. oh wait you play in highsec where the nature of the mini games and its vulnerabilities do not matter. oh yeah people playing half the game wonder why it is like it is.
|
Jeremiah Saken
State War Academy Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 19:11:00 -
[97] - Quote
Quote:But what about using the analyzer to see what it is in the can (without minigame) --> you need more skill to analyze difficult cans And use the codebreaker for relic and data site cans (with minigame but without spew) By this you won't need a cargo scanner anymore (one more mid) and it would be more difficult to do cherry picking
Correct me if i'm wrong, you propose: 1 - analyzer should "roll" content of a can. The better the skills player have the better loot will be "rolled" (this will be a step back to pre odyssey devices) 2 - hacking a can with codebreaker. No loot fireworks just loot the can.
What if i don't want to know what is inside a can? just go straight to point 2, or is it just must do mechanism?
I like the idea of spliting devices activity to analizing loot and codebreaking.
What kind of penalize mechanism you provide for sites? Can exploding? Any ideas for multiplayer exploration? |
Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
162
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 19:40:00 -
[98] - Quote
Miriya Zakalwe wrote:As a new player, my perspective here is maybe not super valuable, but for me, the minigame is fine but the loot spew annoying enough that I decided to completely ignore exploration as a career for the moment.
Obviously, YMMV.
Go into low/null and do the hacking mini game that takes up your entire screen making responding to threats much more difficult for what appears to be no reason other than to add "danger" to an already dangerous adventure. No reason not to be able to resize that and the fittings windows.
Everyone including the person/persons that came up with lewt spew knows by now it sucks warm donkey balls. We also know that since it is someones baby with power at CCP, it is not going anywhere.
Exploration was not great before but it is terribad now.
|
Klatus Doshu
Deutsche Technik Space Angels
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 20:08:00 -
[99] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Quote:But what about using the analyzer to see what it is in the can (without minigame) --> you need more skill to analyze difficult cans And use the codebreaker for relic and data site cans (with minigame but without spew) By this you won't need a cargo scanner anymore (one more mid) and it would be more difficult to do cherry picking Correct me if i'm wrong, you propose: 1 - analyzer should "roll" content of a can. The better the skills player have the better loot will be "rolled" (this will be a step back to pre odyssey devices) 2 - hacking a can with codebreaker. No loot fireworks just loot the can. What if i don't want to know what is inside a can? just go straight to point 2, or is it just must do mechanism? I like the idea of spliting devices activity to analizing loot and codebreaking. What kind of penalize mechanism you provide for sites? Can exploding? Any ideas for multiplayer exploration?
Yes....right now players use the cargo scanner and open only can which are worth to open it.... with my idea you need (have to invest ) at least some skill to be efficient and yes if you don-¦t want to know what it is inside ...skip it...but with my idea you will need only two mid slots (analyzer+codebreaker) instead of three (cargo scanner+analyzer+codebreaker) or if you are not interested in the can content only one (code breaker) instead of two (code breaker + analyzer)
I would leave the kind of penalization as it is right now (can explode if you fail to hack it ) i just want to improve the amount of modules you need
And regardining the can spew I find the idea, which I quoted; quite fine |
Jeremiah Saken
State War Academy Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 21:31:00 -
[100] - Quote
Quote:...and yes if you don-¦t want to know what it is inside ...skip it...
Cargo container scanner is linked with loot eruption, without it there is no reason to bring it.
data sites = parts relic sites = parts and materials data container for both if needed
Maybe lets try quite the oposite: do not reamove loot spew. But. Containers will not vanish in space, and loot will better spread among the types of them. Its hardcore but it suits the very concept of group exploring.
|
|
Nlex
Domini Canium
20
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 22:54:00 -
[101] - Quote
Loot spew does not look like a normal part of gameplay, but instead like a punishment. Loot contained in structure is sent flying in all directions, player has to catch it fast - why does it happens when player WON the hacking minigame?
Maybe it should go like: 1. Won on first attempt (got full control on enemy system) - get one can with everything 2. Won on second attempt (got control on backup airlock system) - get current loot spew 3. Lost two attempts - container explodes/locks up completely/calls reinforcements. |
Evva Ready
Matala Capital
5
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 23:49:00 -
[102] - Quote
It's a **** waste of time and I won't be doing it again ! Just like most the crap they have introduced in the last few years. |
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
581
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 14:33:00 -
[103] - Quote
Bump.
Loot spew is a terrible mechanic.
Get rid of it. Not today spaghetti. |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
636
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 13:37:00 -
[104] - Quote
Ok lets tl,dr
Lootspew.
Universally hated.... Check Bad design...............check Visually unclear .......check Timewasting.............check Frustrating................check Physically painful......check Bad ergonomics........check Breaks immersion.....check
Have I missed anything?
CCP just admit you screwed the pooch on this one, not every idea works in practice, it is not a failiure if you learn from it.
Please even if you do nohing else just remove it in it's entirity as a concept. There is nothing worth saving as an idea. Just no. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
35
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 14:07:00 -
[105] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:Ok lets tl,dr
Lootspew.
Universally hated.... Check Bad design...............check Visually unclear .......check Timewasting.............check Frustrating................check Physically painful......check Bad ergonomics........check Breaks immersion.....check
Have I missed anything? Just no.
Makes most sites (data/relic) worthless in wormholes? I'd rather spend 20 minutes fighting sleepers than the hour after huddled with my corpmates around cans. We've done it a couple times and it sucks for everyone involved... especially the 1 or 2 guys around the can that aren't even hacking and just waiting to catch loot.
I also echo the sentiment that this should be eradicated. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
80
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 14:28:00 -
[106] - Quote
heh, perhaps we need a new 'Loot Hoover' mobile structure... |
Elfred Gam'Havoc
Havoc Violence and Chaos Advent of Fate
14
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 15:22:00 -
[107] - Quote
I was ambivalent about it when it came into effect... with practice, strategy and an afterburner its not terribly cumbersome when soloing relic/data sites... but for the difficulty of the nullsec hacking minigame for cans that display decent loot, you shouldn't have to chase the shiny parts or data cans. |
Deunan Tenephais
63
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 15:53:00 -
[108] - Quote
The loot spew is overkill, first there is the scanning mini-game, then the hacking mini-game, and at last the catch'em all mini-game. Wheels within wheels within wheels...it's too much. Plus it feels very much unfair and unrewarding, the site was found and scanned, the system was hacked, no reason for a sore-loser-mechanic like that. Why not simply put the contents of the containers on different protected nodes of the hacking minigame ? It would make it more strategic than actually, having to choose which nodes attack while keeping enough juices to get out of the system. Once you're out, you get what you unlocked during the hack, and that's all, no need to overcomplicate things.
And yes, make data and archeological sites different from each other with different mechanics, currently having 2 skills and 2 modules is totally useless, it's only a skill sink without purpose nor meaning. |
Andrea Keuvo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
73
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 04:49:00 -
[109] - Quote
dexington wrote:The loot spray could be removed from hackable gas sites.
It's annoying having to bring both data analyzer and cargo scanner, when you still have to fit tank and weapons. And it's even more annoying having to grab the loot, when the white could background makes it almost impossible to read the text telling you which type the can is.
This +1000. You can't fail the minigame in these sites so wtf is the point of having the spew? Best part is, the tractor feature doest even work right all of the time. Seems like at least once per can it lags 2-4 seconds before actually tractoring the can in. Nothing like losing a 250m isk skillbook due to a crap mechanic that was poorly implemented. |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
617
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 05:42:00 -
[110] - Quote
The point to lootspew is that the hacking game can be done in a click, check overview, dscan, click, check overview, dscan fashion. The lootspew is a bit more consuming of your attention, and that's a deliberate game design feature.
|
|
Omega Flames
Forever Winter
87
|
Posted - 2014.01.12 21:32:00 -
[111] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:The point to lootspew is that the hacking game can be done in a click, check overview, dscan, click, check overview, dscan fashion. The lootspew is a bit more consuming of your attention, and that's a deliberate game design feature.
lootspew lasts only 15 secs maybe 20, the odds ill be dropped on during that 15-20 sec period is pretty small since none of the wh pvpers are going to actually time their drop for when the spew happens since all they need is 1 cloaky to get close enough to point and that's it. (and yes i intentionally didnt include kspace dwellers since local is your way of not getting hotdropped on)
my opinion of the lootspew is get rid of it already. whoever is the reason lootspew hasnt been taken out of the game when rubicon was released needs to be fired already since they obviously are this out of tune with the player base. <Munnkeh> i'm gonna use that excuse if i ever kill someone. "look, if you keep meeting ppl, it's bound to happen eventually" http://i.imgur.com/76pQ9.jpg |
Kaivar Lancer
Garoun Investment Bank
426
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 08:43:00 -
[112] - Quote
The response to lootspew is overwhelmingly negative. Why is CCP still sitting on its hands? |
Metamonic
Bubbles Bubbles Bubbles
16
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 14:51:00 -
[113] - Quote
I don't mind the mini game (quite fun) or the loot spew. The loot discharge is quite manageable in my opinion and I rarely lose anything I really want from the scan list. Maybe there are better ways to implement the looting part, but I can live with it. In a way it forces you to make a very quick prioritization of what you want to go for and in what order before they drift apart. There is nothing wrong with that idea in itself.
On the other hand, I do feel a bit for all those useless cans that drops. It seems like such an easy thing to improve. Aside of the massively one-sided strain of complaints towards the mechanics of clicking at cans in space, I think the real problems of the exploring mechanics today is simply how people leave sites half way done once they cherry pick what they want.
To solve this problem, in my opinion, is to also solve the problem with useless cans;
- Add some non-scanable content of semi valuable loot (for example reports, and hydrogen cells but in larger quantities, but a bit of versatility is not un-welcome here. (Maybe moon-goo in Null, PI in Highsec and Worm-stuff in W-space?) - Allow for exploration sites to escalate
These things will make people finish the sites and maybe also chase those last cans even after the scanable content was picked up.
My two cents. |
Higgs Foton
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 14:58:00 -
[114] - Quote
I changed my mind. After doing a bunch of relic sites i think both the lootspew and the hacking game need to go. Change it back to the way it was. Hack into can, open container, grab lewtz. |
Sununu Guasu
Sununu Guasu Piru
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 18:21:00 -
[115] - Quote
I'm all for completely removing both the hacking mini game and loot spew.
If CCP isn't willing to do that, I think they should at least remove one of the clickfests an explorer has to suffer through after having gone through the trouble of finding the site.
For data sites, remove loot spew, and keep the hacking mini game.
For relic sites, keep loot spew (if you must), and remove the hacking mini game.
That aligns better anyway with the idea of hacking into a system to retrieve data, or analyzing an archeological site to extract relics without damaging or destroying them. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1215
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 19:33:00 -
[116] - Quote
Can loot spew cans be added to the overview? if so this would remove my biggest complaint about loot spew, that being that you have to mouse over stuff to figure out what kind of can it is.
Reduce volume of the trash mods from loot spew containers
Give us a third chance to hack those really hard containers. Hacking game is at about the right level of difficulty IMO, but a third chance to deal with the bad-luck aspect of certain boards would help.
Loot spew itself is mostly fine, only issue is occasional latency in getting your tractor beam to pick stuff up.
Make sites properly despawn when people leave them, provided at least one of the containers has been exploded or successfully hacked. I don't think there's a single site in the last week where I bothered to hack every container. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Jeremiah Saken
State War Academy Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 19:50:00 -
[117] - Quote
Quote:Can loot spew cans be added to the overview?
This
Quote:Loot spew itself is mostly fine, only issue is occasional latency in getting your tractor beam to pick stuff up.
Mostly. Tractor beam needs longer range and speed.
|
Erin Crawford
21
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 20:01:00 -
[118] - Quote
Kaivar Lancer wrote:The response to lootspew is overwhelmingly negative. Why is CCP still sitting on its hands?
Who knows? Maybe they just couldn't be bothered? It's a possibility. Maybe they are working on a better solution already. It's also possible...
One thing's for sure though; the current mechanic totally sucks balls cans and has to go!! |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
2174
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 00:47:00 -
[119] - Quote
Loot spew exists because some coke-head in Marketing read a magazine article about "casual gaming" and thought tacking Peggle or whatever into EvE would be a great idea. Nullsec in a Nutshell: http://nedroid.com/comics/2006-08-24-2155-arrrdino.gif |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
621
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 07:57:00 -
[120] - Quote
Omega Flames wrote:Tauranon wrote:The point to lootspew is that the hacking game can be done in a click, check overview, dscan, click, check overview, dscan fashion. The lootspew is a bit more consuming of your attention, and that's a deliberate game design feature.
lootspew lasts only 15 secs maybe 20, the odds ill be dropped on during that 15-20 sec period is pretty small since none of the wh pvpers are going to actually time their drop for when the spew happens since all they need is 1 cloaky to get close enough to point and that's it. (and yes i intentionally didnt include kspace dwellers since local is your way of not getting hotdropped on) my opinion of the lootspew is get rid of it already. whoever is the reason lootspew hasnt been taken out of the game when rubicon was released needs to be fired already since they obviously are this out of tune with the player base.
nobody hotdrops a helios, unless they are in dek or somewhere else totally boring.
last I looked, I see cloakies on grid decloaking before they can start locking me - which is long enough for an agile frigate to get away) which is why the specific process I outlined works. I am more distracted by lootspew however, which is the natural moment to decloak on someone if you do intend trying to tackle an aggressive but attentive miniprof runner.
As far as WHs go, you should have a pretty good idea whether or not someone can be in your system, and it takes them a lot of commitment to your kill if you do practice safe-wh. |
|
Audemed
Wraithguard. Dirt Nap Squad.
1
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 22:57:00 -
[121] - Quote
What would be nice:
Remove loot spew. Remove hacking container blowing up on failure
Add: Relevant things for all loot types (2, the current 5, maybe more) Add: Additional "objectives" in the hacking minigame. Cores to be reached for each data type. Reach a core, it ulocks that loot. Not revealed until you hit it, just as present, so if you haven't found the data core you wanted yet, keep looking, it might be the last. Add: A container that opens up, where you can non-spew your loot into the cargo hold. |
Karak Kashada
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 20:10:00 -
[122] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote: I haven't been playing for 4 months, but I can say definitively that the loot mechanic is moronic, insulting, and maddening. I was all excited to do data- and relic-site hacking until I got my first real taste of it. I think whoever came up with the idea should be fired. What's next...ores being mined jettisoning out into space before "poofing" out of existence? How would the miners feel about that? They'd be mad. So why punish hackers with such insult?
Again, if I wasn't clear, the loot mechanic is utterly idiotic. |
Karak Kashada
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 20:32:00 -
[123] - Quote
Existential wrote:I personally like the loot spew....
Said no one ever. It is a very annoying mechanic, who the hell thought of this? CCP lead developer's cave-man-IQ-sporting loser of a nephew who can't get a job in the real world, and was offered a spot on the dev team to keep him out of trouble. That's my guess. |
Zenith Gravit
LionGate Enterprises Care Factor
38
|
Posted - 2014.01.25 04:44:00 -
[124] - Quote
I think some of the mechanics of the Ghost sites get it right. Hack the container via the mini game, then you can loot everything. If the mini game didn't exist I'd somewhat be ok with the loot spew since it does add some interaction and challenge. |
Maxor Swift
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
21
|
Posted - 2014.01.26 01:07:00 -
[125] - Quote
Loot spew the name says it all. "What you talking about willis" |
Wesley Otsdarva
Asuratech Industrial Corp Brothers Of The Dark Sun
7
|
Posted - 2014.01.26 23:36:00 -
[126] - Quote
I skilled up for hacking and stuffs for odyssey, I feel like I wasted skill points. I hate the mechanic. I stopped exploring entirely because of the thought that I'm just losing isk because of a stupid loot spew. That and not getting anything good. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1400
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 14:53:00 -
[127] - Quote
Yes, continue quitting exploration. Let the supply of decryptors and power circuits dry up. *evil laugh*
I've gone from hating loot spew to finding it annoying but acceptable. It takes like 5 sites to memorize which loot comes from where, and there's even an implant for making it easier.
That said, loot spew is a very strong factor in making me ignore most cans and only cherry pick the good ones. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Kralo Maluzin
KM Explorations Inc
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 20:28:00 -
[128] - Quote
My one most lucrative and fun activity RUINED! RUINED! This lame ass "loot spew" is ridiculous beyond description. Not to mention making you a sitting duck whilst engaged in this hacking and spewing! Not fun, do not want. |
Mars Starforge
Delta vane Corp. Mordus Angels
5
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 05:24:00 -
[129] - Quote
CCP.
Loot spew sucks.
Everything about it sucks.
Please fix.
Make exploration rewarding, not a hard kick to the hoo-hahs.
That is all. |
Abdul 'aleem
Sumiko Yoshida Corporation
161
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 06:11:00 -
[130] - Quote
It's annoying but I am OK with it.
If I have any criticism, it is that loot spew is not solo friendly.
One of the nice things about exploring was that you could do it solo.
There is a suggestion in Forums & Ideas that will make it harder for griefers to grief missioners. Unique Mission Item Theft Rebalance
Be sure to "like" the original post if you support it. |
|
Dynast
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
101
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 06:51:00 -
[131] - Quote
Loot spew is pretty awful. Exploration looked interesting right up until I saw that fuckaround bullshit. Such a disappointment after coming back to big improvements like the depot/tractor deployables. |
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
712
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 12:38:00 -
[132] - Quote
After a 6 week ban my first post is this:
Loot spew sucks get rid of it. Not today spaghetti. |
Apelacja
Gods products
66
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 14:59:00 -
[133] - Quote
annoying minigame forced me to stop exploration at all. getn rid of it.
|
Robotic Lincoln
Viziam Amarr Empire
29
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 16:00:00 -
[134] - Quote
I wish to register my unmitigated hatred for the loot spew mechanic.
I would challenge it to a duel, but it would flee in a thousand directions and disappear, leaving my honor unsatisfied and my clicking hand permanently disfigured. |
Maxor Swift
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
21
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 19:20:00 -
[135] - Quote
Loot Spew was brought to you by the same team that gave us that other anti-fun master piece the 40 second reload, And that all time classic the Heavy Missile launcher balance.
Cant wait to see what tension building mechanic they come up with next. "What you talking about willis" |
Jeremiah Saken
State Protectorate Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 21:15:00 -
[136] - Quote
There's a simple solution to loot mechanism. Just make loot containers permanent.
[quoteLoot Spew was brought to you by the same team that gave us that other anti-fun master piece the 40 second reload, And that all time classic the Heavy Missile launcher balance.[/quote]
They tried to make it more group activity. Now its all ankward. If they remove loot containers mechanism, more ppl will explore, prices will drop, tears will flow. |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
316
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 00:15:00 -
[137] - Quote
Well not ALL of the responses are completely negative. That means some people love it, and thus the feature is a smashing success. - CCP Logic
Face it, if they haven't done anything about it by now with all the negative player feedback, odds are they ain't gonna do it anytime soon. Most of the creator-level Devs seem to realize that it is a horrible mechanic that needs to be replaced. The decision-makers in charge apparently don't see it that way. And probably don't give two shiites until it starts affecting the company's bottom line. They apparently focus on the "new shiny" to draw in new players, rather than fixing the shiite they broke in the previous expansion and making a decent game. So you either need to start quitting in droves over Dumpster Diving (ie. Exploration), or generate enough bad press on other gaming sites so it actually gets their attention. There's been enough of these threads already that they know that we don't like loot spew, it's just that they don't give a feck about our opinion. |
Jeremiah Saken
State Protectorate Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 10:08:00 -
[138] - Quote
Quote:Face it, if they haven't done anything about it by now with all the negative player feedback, odds are they ain't gonna do it anytime soon.
So 2-3 years or worse? Do they have team responsible for exploration part? |
Kaivar Lancer
Metropolis Acquisition Services
430
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 15:54:00 -
[139] - Quote
So I resubbed after hearing the $300k battle, but am extremely disappointed that CCP hasn't fixed this stupid mechanic. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
18
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 16:09:00 -
[140] - Quote
I find the hacking mini-game extremely tedious. I consider it to be on the level of the lowest forms of mobile phone games... I think the loot spew part is fine. Atleast it requires some attention and micro.
However Ive stopped doing both Relic/Data sites altogether in favor of simply warping to Combat Anomalies once I enter a system, and continuing Probing for Combat Sigs, while killing the rats from the f10 map interface.
I find that to a far more amusing (and rewarding) type of mini-game. |
|
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1786
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 16:21:00 -
[141] - Quote
Abdul 'aleem wrote:If I have any criticism, it is that loot spew is not solo friendly.
Its plenty solo friendly. Fit cargo scanner, never miss anything valuable. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
436
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 16:26:00 -
[142] - Quote
Loot spew still just plain annoying
Often can't click on those stupid tiny boxes even when I do manage to identify the ones I want
Very glad they dropped it for the ghost sites so I now have some reason to have the hacking skill
|
Kai'tan Adrastia
The Scope Gallente Federation
29
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 01:40:00 -
[143] - Quote
Loot spew isn't that bad. Exploration revamp has suppressed the salvage market enough as it is. If every explorer got every piece of salvage from every hacked can then the affect would be even worse. Just look at Data sites, they are hardly worth doing. |
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
1175
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 12:48:00 -
[144] - Quote
I hate the loot spew, but others do not. So I kill them and take their stuff. I simply adapted. |
Markku Laaksonen
EVE University Ivy League
360
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 14:09:00 -
[145] - Quote
Loot spew is weird. It doesn't fit. DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/
EVE Buddy Invite - https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=047203f1-4124-42a1-b36f-39ca8ae5d6e2&action=buddy
|
Jeremiah Saken
State Protectorate Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 22:55:00 -
[146] - Quote
Quote:Loot spew isn't that bad. Exploration revamp has suppressed the salvage market enough as it is. If every explorer got every piece of salvage from every hacked can then the affect would be even worse. Just look at Data sites, they are hardly worth doing.
Reduce loot quantity in cans, price problem solved. Exploration revmap made exploration too easy. That's the real problem. I don't have a problem to scan null sites with covop and lvl 3 skills. Removing loot spew will cause another problem. Same dead end as with 35 rapids reload.
Quote:Loot spew is weird. It doesn't fit.
Yep. Sometimes i think i'm playing another game.
|
Helios ni-Pharos
Wild'Geese
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 18:49:00 -
[147] - Quote
Yes, this is mega-annoying. When you jump through all the hoops to get the loot in the first place, having it suddenly become a reflexes check is like "F*** you" from the dev team. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 19:51:00 -
[148] - Quote
I just dont understand these negative sentiments about the loot spew.
You have like a full 5-8s to casually and nonchalantly cursor over the cans and select the next one to tractor, and then look for the next one.
I have a terrible suspicion that most of these complainers are not using Cargo Scanner or actually haven't even taken the time to do a simple google read on which cans drop which loots. |
Helios ni-Pharos
Wild'Geese
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 20:35:00 -
[149] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
I have a terrible suspicion that most of these complainers are not using Cargo Scanner or actually haven't even taken the time to do a simple google read on which cans drop which loots.
I see what you did there. False assumption. Troll on. |
Garaba
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
17
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 00:36:00 -
[150] - Quote
I've just gotten into null exploration, and the loot spew makes me want to go into a nursery at a hospital then proceed to punt all of the newborn babies off the roof. It is horrible, and has no place in this game.
First I have to scan a site, then I have to **** around with a connect the dots mini game that takes up the majority of my screen, THEN I have to try to click on horribly unresponsive cans that randomly have the loot I saw with a cargo scanner.
Loot spew should be a punishment for failing, not the reward. |
|
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
781
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 01:05:00 -
[151] - Quote
Garaba wrote:I've just gotten into null exploration, and the loot spew makes me want to go into a nursery at a hospital then proceed to punt all of the newborn babies off the roof. It is horrible, and has no place in this game.
First I have to scan a site, then I have to **** around with a connect the dots mini game that takes up the majority of my screen, THEN I have to try to click on horribly unresponsive cans that randomly have the loot I saw with a cargo scanner.
Loot spew should be a punishment for failing, not the reward.
Loot spew is there to distract you from my decloaking recon. It is a very well designed game mechanism, and makes you stare straight at temptation. Also I only ever lose the odd bit of t2 salvage to it, ie it is a game in itself that is winnable because the can types hold particular things (there are at least 2 subtleties that I can see).
|
Jeremiah Saken
State Protectorate Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 07:06:00 -
[152] - Quote
Quote:...game in itself that is winnable because the can types hold particular things...
Yep. Carbon. I have a Badger full of it.
Quote:Loot spew is there to distract you from my decloaking recon. It is a very well designed game mechanism, and makes you stare straight at temptation.
i agree. Good pvp part in it. Would it be the same if the cans not vanish is space? Why they even vanish?
Quote:I have a terrible suspicion that most of these complainers are not using Cargo Scanner or actually haven't even taken the time to do a simple google read on which cans drop which loots.
I will give you last night example. Relic site. One type of loot salvage in hacking can. Loot spew comes in about 10 parts/materials cans and was in only one can that i did not manage to get. Unlucky me. Hold full of carbon anyway.
Spew cans can stack on each other (hard to get "the one"), tractor beam not always working when i fly to can, there's a sling effect when i'm not at 0 speed (precious seconds lost), next in queue if out of range not triggering ship to follow. Random number of types spew cans. Sometimes i get "equal" number of spew cans type (easy mode, 100% loot) sometimes i get 10 parts/materials, 1 data, 1 equipment etc. (red eyes rabbit on lsd alice's in wonderkakke mode, like in above example).
Mechanism is bad, even Devs admit it somewhere.
|
Kaletha Caelum
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 09:34:00 -
[153] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Abdul 'aleem wrote:If I have any criticism, it is that loot spew is not solo friendly.
Fit cargo scanner, never miss anything valuable.
I'm a new explorator and i don't understand how we can locate where the valuable stuff are. I understand we can scan "big" cans to see if there is valuable stuff in it but after hacking how do you know wich little can to grab ? I see them all green at the beginning then yellow then white. But i dont understand how it's not pure luck grabing the good ones. And i can't grab all of them just half at best.
Thanks for answer and sorry for my horrible english :) |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
783
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 09:50:00 -
[154] - Quote
Kaletha Caelum wrote:Batelle wrote:Abdul 'aleem wrote:If I have any criticism, it is that loot spew is not solo friendly.
Fit cargo scanner, never miss anything valuable. I'm a new explorator and i don't understand how we can locate where the valuable stuff are. I understand we can scan "big" cans to see if there is valuable stuff in it but after hacking how do you know wich little can to grab ? I see them all green at the beginning then yellow then white. But i dont understand how it's not pure luck grabing the good ones. And i can't grab all of them just half at best. Thanks for answer and sorry for my horrible english :)
close any old cargo scan windows, scan hacking can first (before ending the hack) with a cargo scanner, and leave the scan window open.
In a data can.
data = bpc parts = decrypter + data core. everything else = junk.
In a relic can. data = bpc parts = t2 or t1 salvage materials = t2 or t1 salvage
everything else = junk.
In the case of a data hacking can with 2 bpc and 2 decryptor on scan
Pull data container and queue a parts container (its important for me to queue them because of my long round trip to the server), and mouse over hunt a couple more cans whilst they are being processed. I prefer to alternate, particularly if I only have 1 can of that type left in the spew that has a valuable item, to reduce the chances I queue a can that is useless after the last successful one has pulled in that type, but don't fail to pull something because you can't find the alternate type - queuing something more important.
You can also arrange your cargo and keep cargo window and scan window open if you like (stuff things into a container between hacks), whatever, to avoid needing to count.
In the case of a relic can with 12 individual stacks of salvage, you will probably have to accept you aren't going to get them all. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
20
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 10:57:00 -
[155] - Quote
Helios ni-Pharos wrote:I see what you did there. False assumption. Troll on.
Then what is your problem exactly?
You dont have the micro required to click a can every 5s?
How many seconds do you need then? |
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
436
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 11:30:00 -
[156] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Helios ni-Pharos wrote:I see what you did there. False assumption. Troll on. Then what is your problem exactly? You dont have the micro required to click a can every 5s? How many seconds do you need then?
When I'm on my mini laptop at a hotel, which is when I go exploring as I have no hope of getting anywhere in PVP, it takes me a lot longer than 5s to get the type of can to display and then click on it if I want it. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
20
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 13:18:00 -
[157] - Quote
Ruskarn Andedare wrote:
When I'm on my mini laptop at a hotel, which is when I go exploring as I have no hope of getting anywhere in PVP, it takes me a lot longer than 5s to get the type of can to display and then click on it if I want it.
Why is that?
Please dont tell me you are playing with a touchpad. In which case, buy a small and cheap usb mouse. |
Kaletha Caelum
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 13:28:00 -
[158] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:[quote=Kaletha Caelum][quote=Batelle][quote=Abdul 'aleem]
close any old cargo scan windows, scan hacking can first (before ending the hack) with a cargo scanner, and leave the scan window open.
My bad i suck at this game, i didn't even noticed spew cans didn't have same name.
Last thing. When im pulling a spew can and flying in other direction it is possible that too long distance will cancel the grab ? Because i was sure i was grabing a data can but after the looting phase no bpc in my cargo.
Thanks a lot for your answer. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
20
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 13:40:00 -
[159] - Quote
Kaletha Caelum wrote:Last thing. When im pulling a spew can and flying in other direction it is possible that too long distance will cancel the grab ? Because i was sure i was grabing a data can but after the looting phase no bpc in my cargo.
Yes, of course. Or it will despawn due to its internal timer before it can be pulled to your hold. |
Kaletha Caelum
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 14:23:00 -
[160] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:[quote=Kaletha Caelum] Yes, of course. Or it will despawn due to its internal timer before it can be pulled to your hold.
OK thank you. It's really annoying because it takes very long. Even when loot is 300m near me it takes 3 or 4 sec to go in my cargo. And if i'm moving it's even longer. So 6 or 7 sec to grab one can is horrible. Probably i'm doing something wrong but hav'nt find a good way yet. |
|
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
439
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 15:00:00 -
[161] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Ruskarn Andedare wrote:
When I'm on my mini laptop at a hotel, which is when I go exploring as I have no hope of getting anywhere in PVP, it takes me a lot longer than 5s to get the type of can to display and then click on it if I want it.
Why is that? Please dont tell me you are playing with a touchpad. In which case, buy a small and cheap usb mouse.
11" screen laptop, gaming mouse, very hard to get the mouse pointer over the tiny moving container icon for long enough for the display and quite a few attempts to get the click to take.
Hotel speed wifi and a spot of arthritis probably not helping a lot.
At home on a 22" screen and v.fast connection it's easy. |
Jeremiah Saken
State Protectorate Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 15:27:00 -
[162] - Quote
Quote: Even when loot is 300m near me it takes 3 or 4 sec to go in my cargo. And if i'm moving it's even longer. So 6 or 7 sec to grab one can is horrible. Probably i'm doing something wrong but hav'nt find a good way yet.
Park your ship at 1000-1500m from hacking can. Single click on loot spew can, double if its out of range (white cans). Try to get as many green and yellow ones. Green are closest to you. It need some practice. Implant help a bit, it gives you extra seconds.
|
Kaletha Caelum
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 15:43:00 -
[163] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote: Park your ship at 1000-1500m from hacking can. Single click on loot spew can, double if its out of range (white cans). Try to get as many green and yellow ones. Green are closest to you. It need some practice. Implant help a bit, it gives you extra seconds.
Thank you for tips i will try it. |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
785
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 15:59:00 -
[164] - Quote
Kaletha Caelum wrote:My bad i suck at this game, i didn't even noticed spew cans didn't have same name. Last thing. When im pulling a spew can and flying in other direction it is possible that too long distance will cancel the grab ? Because i was sure i was grabing a data can but after the looting phase no bpc in my cargo. Thanks a lot for your answer.
They seem to not despawn much to me once the beam appears.
As I'm a resident, and I have pvp ships nearby, I stop doing them if other people come into my system, and I deny the other people access to them with my ability to reship, so I don't have to sit far enough off the hacking can to cloak, so I don't need to chase anything but the last 1 or 2 spew cans typically. I've seen the beam stretch to 3000m without the can subsequently despawning, so I've not personally seen what you seem to have seen.
If you also run out of cargo space though, the object will remain on the empty hacking cans scan instead and not go into cargo (there will also be a warning shown in the usual spot).
|
|
CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
1385
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 14:15:00 -
[165] - Quote
We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. CCP Affinity | Follow me on Twitter Content Designer for EVE Online |
|
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
176
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 14:19:00 -
[166] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.
Best early christmas present ever. |
Ivory Kantenu
Sons of The Forge SpaceMonkey's Alliance
66
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 14:21:00 -
[167] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.
Curious, what exactly is prompting this? It seems like moving it to the past of 'Open to loot' will hurt the economy even more than the current system in place, even if just a little. Learn the basics of Wormhole Selling: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=101693&find=unread
|
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
2661
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 14:27:00 -
[168] - Quote
Ivory Kantenu wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. Curious, what exactly is prompting this? It seems like moving it to the past of 'Open to loot' will hurt the economy even more than the current system in place, even if just a little. They will most likely reduce the amount of loot as well, for balance. Although I still say sites could be improved by adding more loot types. Increase the breadth of the loot table to prevent the market from being saturated with any given type. For example, skill books already show up. How about putting ALL skill books in the loot table, and setting the drop rate at something below typical player demand? That way the price will not crash. BPO's are another possibility. (Yes, originals). Again just make sure the drop rate is low, so there will still be buys from the NPCs. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Abramul
StarFleet Enterprises Almost Awesome.
18
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 14:49:00 -
[169] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Ivory Kantenu wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. Curious, what exactly is prompting this? It seems like moving it to the past of 'Open to loot' will hurt the economy even more than the current system in place, even if just a little. They will most likely reduce the amount of loot as well, for balance. Although I still say sites could be improved by adding more loot types. Increase the breadth of the loot table to prevent the market from being saturated with any given type. For example, skill books already show up. How about putting ALL skill books in the loot table, and setting the drop rate at something below typical player demand? That way the price will not crash. BPO's are another possibility. (Yes, originals). Again just make sure the drop rate is low, so there will still be buys from the NPCs. Another option is to just disable cargo scanning, this would probably reduce time efficiency. More variety does sound nice, too. |
Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
830
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 14:56:00 -
[170] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. Please say you're not trolling us with this post. The hacking game was a great addition; the loot spew was terrible. It's awesome to hear that it's being taken care of.
Step onto the battlefield, and you're already dead, born again at the end of the battle to live on and fight another day.
>> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! << |
|
|
CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
1390
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 15:05:00 -
[171] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Ivory Kantenu wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. Curious, what exactly is prompting this? It seems like moving it to the past of 'Open to loot' will hurt the economy even more than the current system in place, even if just a little. They will most likely reduce the amount of loot as well, for balance. Although I still say sites could be improved by adding more loot types. Increase the breadth of the loot table to prevent the market from being saturated with any given type. For example, skill books already show up. How about putting ALL skill books in the loot table, and setting the drop rate at something below typical player demand? That way the price will not crash. BPO's are another possibility. (Yes, originals). Again just make sure the drop rate is low, so there will still be buys from the NPCs.
yes, we will balance the loot tables accordingly and will take another look at the loot in general :) CCP Affinity | Follow me on Twitter Content Designer for EVE Online |
|
|
CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
1390
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 15:05:00 -
[172] - Quote
Maximus Andendare wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. Please say you're not trolling us with this post. The hacking game was a great addition; the loot spew was terrible. It's awesome to hear that it's being taken care of.
not trolling :) CCP Affinity | Follow me on Twitter Content Designer for EVE Online |
|
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
2720
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 15:17:00 -
[173] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:Maximus Andendare wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. Please say you're not trolling us with this post. The hacking game was a great addition; the loot spew was terrible. It's awesome to hear that it's being taken care of. not trolling :)
What's going to happen to the implant that affects loot spew? that part of it just removed? Steve Ronuken for CSM 9! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4236322 http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
|
CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
1392
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 15:23:00 -
[174] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:Maximus Andendare wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. Please say you're not trolling us with this post. The hacking game was a great addition; the loot spew was terrible. It's awesome to hear that it's being taken care of. not trolling :) What's going to happen to the implant that affects loot spew? that part of it just removed?
Haven't decided yet :) CCP Affinity | Follow me on Twitter Content Designer for EVE Online |
|
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2205
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 15:27:00 -
[175] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:Maximus Andendare wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. Please say you're not trolling us with this post. The hacking game was a great addition; the loot spew was terrible. It's awesome to hear that it's being taken care of. not trolling :) What's going to happen to the implant that affects loot spew? that part of it just removed? Haven't decided yet :) You could change it to a virus strength bonus, increase the skill requirements and cost accordingly though. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
5799
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 15:40:00 -
[176] - Quote
Even an extra +5 strength via implants, rigs, or modules would radically increase the ease of hacking top-end cans. While I love the idea, I do wonder at its value from a design perspective. :/ Priano Trans-Stellar is recruiting! Interested in nullsec combat? Research? Exploration? Contact Priano Trans-Stellar: elegant solutions for the State's needs. |
Helios ni-Pharos
Wild'Geese
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 15:44:00 -
[177] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.
OMG, this is the best news ever. Thanks so much! |
Treborr MintingtonJr
Quantum Reality R n D Spaceship Samurai
176
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 16:00:00 -
[178] - Quote
Looking back, I have found nothing wrong with loot spew, cargo scan first then that will tell which containers to get, meerkat simples. |
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
177
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 16:13:00 -
[179] - Quote
Treborr MintingtonJr wrote:Looking back, I have found nothing wrong with loot spew, cargo scan first then that will tell which containers to get, meerkat simples.
The question hasn't been whether it's doable or simple. Just that the mechanic is exceedingly annoying after completing a mini game already. |
Treborr MintingtonJr
Quantum Reality R n D Spaceship Samurai
176
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 16:22:00 -
[180] - Quote
Noxisia Arkana wrote:Treborr MintingtonJr wrote:Looking back, I have found nothing wrong with loot spew, cargo scan first then that will tell which containers to get, meerkat simples. Edited to: You have bare tekkers. Yeah I can totally understand that, what I should have said I've learnt to live with it. I would rather keep it as it is than take a loot nerf |
|
Hiton Kado
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 16:23:00 -
[181] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. Why? I actually liked the idea of having to work for your loot. Dumbing it down will bring it closer to mind numbing gameplay like mining. |
KiithNaabal
Big Johnson's PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 16:47:00 -
[182] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:Maximus Andendare wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. Please say you're not trolling us with this post. The hacking game was a great addition; the loot spew was terrible. It's awesome to hear that it's being taken care of. not trolling :) What's going to happen to the implant that affects loot spew? that part of it just removed? Haven't decided yet :)
Really, i don't care about loot spew, what i do care about is time spent in the relic site as opposed to time spent scanning.
If time spent scanning is crazy high as opposed to actually getting the loot, there are less opportunities for ganks. And ganks = fun. Contesting a relic site = fun. So less time spent in a relic site = less fun.
Loot spew was implemented to encourage cooperative work. It does not, because people just get alts (like myself) to run relics and just log the alt off in hostile null, but i would be all for somehow forcing players to spend more time in a relic site. |
Altaen
Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder
110
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 16:48:00 -
[183] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:Maximus Andendare wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. Please say you're not trolling us with this post. The hacking game was a great addition; the loot spew was terrible. It's awesome to hear that it's being taken care of. not trolling :) What's going to happen to the implant that affects loot spew? that part of it just removed?
I'm sorry, I'm dumb...but what implant is this? And if you don't know the name, what does it do at least? |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
21
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 16:50:00 -
[184] - Quote
Thanks whiners.
Probably loot will be nerfed now, so that you microless fat fingers can finally handle a simple mini-game. |
Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
830
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 16:54:00 -
[185] - Quote
Hiton Kado wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. Why? I actually liked the idea of having to work for your loot. Dumbing it down will bring it closer to mind numbing gameplay like mining. "Working for your loot" is not clicking as fast as possible on little boxes moving around the spacescape, behind my overview windows, etc. It was an absolutely terrible mechanic that doesn't really fit well with the way Eve is played or interacted with. The "working for your loot" part is actually the hacking minigame. It didn't make any sense to have someone work the hacking grid then have to be penalized by loot flying in every direction.
Honestly, CCP could keep the loot spew mechanic, so as to not waste those work hours creating it, but just have it trigger on an unsuccessful hack. So, you can hack the container successfully and you get a loot window. Unsuccessfully and you get to scramble getting some loot. Maybe you'll get nothing, maybe you'll get something. It's a small consolation prize to not having your skills up high enough. Plus, it lessens the skill cliff for new pilots, since even if they are unsuccessful, they can still loot something until they get better skilled.
Step onto the battlefield, and you're already dead, born again at the end of the battle to live on and fight another day.
>> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! << |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
2941
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 17:19:00 -
[186] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. This is awful news. The loot spew is a step in reducing the dull mindless pressure-less nature of exploration. Additionally, it nicely incorporated piloting skill, pre-scanning knowledge, spatial awareness/instincts -- all good stuff that meant that doing/practicing it for longer yields better results, giving exploration a "profession" aspect.
Removing the spew turns it back into the old hacking, except instead of rats there's a minigame in which success largely depends on luck.
I really hope that the loot spew is replaced with something equally engaging.
Were it up to me, the sites would have much larger amounts of loot, keep loot spew, and add rats that respawn (and stack up if ignored). Make it a challenge! If the efficacy of doing something in Eve isn't affected by watching a movie on the side, it's not challenging or engaging enough.
Another idea: remove loot spew but change the hacking minigame to have time pressure and limitations, and extra rewards for performing really well. Something similar to the one in Deus Ex: Human Revolution.
Whatever you do, please please please do not make it so boring and easy that I can browse Reddit and watch cat videos on the side. Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - lowsec pirate operation, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Daishi Kurita
ORIGINal Pancakes Pun Legion
1
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 17:24:00 -
[187] - Quote
Speaking on loot. PLEASE start having Data and Ship Interfaces be destroyed. The price on those BPC's used to make SOME money, after years of them dropping and not a single item from the BPC's ever being destroyed they are LITERALLY worthless. I don't even know why they drop anymore.
This suggestion was made by many players YEARS ago, that CCP has done nothing to such an obvious problem makes me think you guys don't give a ****. |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
2451
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 17:42:00 -
[188] - Quote
Maximus Andendare wrote:Hiton Kado wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. Why? I actually liked the idea of having to work for your loot. Dumbing it down will bring it closer to mind numbing gameplay like mining. "Working for your loot" is not clicking as fast as possible on little boxes moving around the spacescape, behind my overview windows, etc. It was an absolutely terrible mechanic that doesn't really fit well with the way Eve is played or interacted with. **The "working for your loot" part is actually the hacking minigame.** It didn't make any sense to have someone work the hacking grid then have to be penalized by loot flying in every direction.
Emphasis added. This is as it should be; I wish that CCP would iterate on the hacking game and make it an actual challenge. Give us the scripted/pre-loaded utilities, give us some challenge in the minigame that requires skill moreso than skill points. Make it so that the longer you spend in that can, and the more successful and skilled you are, the better the loot you get. Make it multi-layered, active, and engaging.
I know that it won't happen anytime soon, if ever, because CCP has moved on to making round after round of broken/useless deployables, long term plans of jumpgates to nowhere, and leaving the ship rebalance half done.
Quote: Honestly, CCP could keep the loot spew mechanic, so as to not waste those work hours creating it, but just have it trigger on an unsuccessful hack. So, you can hack the container successfully and you get a loot window. Unsuccessfully and you get to scramble getting some loot. Maybe you'll get nothing, maybe you'll get something. It's a small consolation prize to not having your skills up high enough. Plus, it lessens the skill cliff for new pilots, since even if they are unsuccessful, they can still loot something until they get better skilled.
This, along with a glorious explosion that causes AOE damage would be great. It's the best suggested use of loot diarrhea so far. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruitng members for lowsec PvP operations. Newbie friendly, free T1 frigate and dessy hangar, solo tutoring and PvP classes for new members. Join our in game channel 'weflyrifters' and speak to a recruiter today. |
Bayta Charante
Zero Atmosphere Combat Academy
7
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 17:55:00 -
[189] - Quote
Maximus Andendare wrote:"Working for your loot" is not clicking as fast as possible on little boxes moving around the spacescape, behind my overview windows, etc. It was an absolutely terrible mechanic that doesn't really fit well with the way Eve is played or interacted with. The "working for your loot" part is actually the hacking minigame. It didn't make any sense to have someone work the hacking grid then have to be penalized by loot flying in every direction. But you have to pay attention to the names of the cans, and relate them. For the first time you don't have to look at the overview to do something, and just watch the real GAME, not the spreadsheet.
Hiton Kado wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. Why? I actually liked the idea of having to work for your loot. Dumbing it down will bring it closer to mind numbing gameplay like mining.
Yeah, I agree with that. That's what I always said to my corp mates: SCAN and then grab ONLY the containers related to what you saw.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Thanks whiners.
Probably loot will be nerfed now, so that you microless fat fingers can finally handle a simple mini-game.
I don't understand how they got so much attention.
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
I really hope that the loot spew is replaced with something equally engaging.
Were it up to me, the sites would have much larger amounts of loot, keep loot spew, and add rats that respawn (and stack up if ignored). Make it a challenge! If the efficacy of doing something in Eve isn't affected by watching a movie on the side, it's not challenging or engaging enough.
Another idea: remove loot spew but change the hacking minigame to have time pressure and limitations, and extra rewards for performing really well.
Whatever you do, please please please do not make it so boring and easy that I can browse Reddit and watch cat videos on the side.
If they add rats the usual cov ops frigates won't be able to do much. The only vessels suitable for the task would be the SOE ones... I don't know you, but I wouldn't like that.
The time limit is a good one. I agree with you: it should be something challenging something that you must pay attention on what you are doing. Else it will became mining2.0 |
Kern Hotha
61
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 17:56:00 -
[190] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.
I'm happy to read this, because this part of the exploration profession revamp really reduced the enjoyment of the overall activity. We distinguish the excellent man from the common man by saying that the former is the one who makes great demands upon himself, and the latter who makes no demands on himself.
Jose Ortega y Gasset (1883 - 1955) |
|
Kaivar Lancer
Metropolis Acquisition Services
433
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 18:05:00 -
[191] - Quote
Thank you CCP. <3 |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
2942
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 18:06:00 -
[192] - Quote
I feel like there's a disconnect here. Is fine motor control to click moving dots on the screen just that hardhard for everyone? Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - lowsec pirate operation, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2205
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 18:18:00 -
[193] - Quote
Bayta Charante wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Thanks whiners.
Probably loot will be nerfed now, so that you microless fat fingers can finally handle a simple mini-game. I don't understand how they got so much attention. I dont think you under stand how long this has been being asked to be removed.
I will give you a small hint, it started in the testing thread about 1~2 months before Odyssey was released. There was only 1 or 2 testers that liked the loot spew. All the rest said do not ship the feature, the hacking mini-games was enough. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Helios ni-Pharos
Wild'Geese
1
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 18:24:00 -
[194] - Quote
Altaen wrote:[quote=Steve Ronuken]
I'm sorry, I'm dumb...but what implant is this? And if you don't know the name, what does it do at least?
http://eve.battleclinic.com/item_database.php?id=i27260
|
Boltorano
Devious Chemicals
39
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 19:26:00 -
[195] - Quote
I don't do hacking sites often, but this is a good change.
No need to reduce the loot table, just remove the ability to cargo scan to balance it out.
How can you call it "exploration" if people can see which cans are the good ones before they even try to open them? |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
2451
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 19:47:00 -
[196] - Quote
Bayta Charante wrote:
the usual cov ops frigates
That's because the usual covops frigates used to do this are shitfits.
Data and Relic sites should have variance beyond what they do now; there should be easier ones in high and low that benefit a lightly tanked covops/T1 scanner, and give low level loot as a result. Faster, time gated ones in null that let a covops sneak in and out but reward quick hacking skill would be great, too. There should also be much more difficult ones that spawn rats, require PVE combat, and give better loot to benefit the higher SP SoE or T3 pilot. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruitng members for lowsec PvP operations. Newbie friendly, free T1 frigate and dessy hangar, solo tutoring and PvP classes for new members. Join our in game channel 'weflyrifters' and speak to a recruiter today. |
Ougaa Baalstomp
The Shadow Stalkers New Eden's Misfits Alliance
8
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 19:57:00 -
[197] - Quote
Personally I liked the loot spew.
Felt more of an 'out in space' mechanic where you actually had to do something, than the usual 'consult spreadsheet and click for reward' bullshit.
Personally I hope it gets a reprieve and stays ...but I guess the fat neck-bearded botters will cry forever until anything resembing definite human interaction is removed from the game.
;) |
Ransu Asanari
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union The Predictables
87
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 20:11:00 -
[198] - Quote
Glad to hear the loot spew mechanic is going away. It's a time sensitive activity that has a lot of problems that I don't think can be fixed with the current game mechanics (server tick). I've logged a number of bugs where clicking on the second loot can doesn't register, so you waste valuable seconds trying to find another one to click to get it to register. Lag and ship agility also play into account here.
Also that some of the hacking containers in the dronelands are oversized and the collision mechanic doesn't allow you to get close enough to them to properly grab the loot spew cans.
I expect a reduction to the amount of loot in each can to make up for the loot spew mechanic not being there. The idea was that you wouldn't be able to grab all of it by yourself (bring a friend), but solo you'd still end up with theoretically the same amount of loot as before the spew mechanic, based on the items that are lost. I know this has been explained a while back about the way the mind handles potential loss, even when you're not actually getting less loot. Hopefully this fixes some of the large drops in market prices we've seen for a lot of the valuable salvage and other items found via exploration. I say that after dumping my stock a few weeks ago ;_;
I've done exploration sites bringing along a friend who is just getting started, and it isn't much fun for them, since they just get dragged around and sit there while I do the minigame until we're ready to go all Hungry Hungry Hippos on the loot spew cans. A better way for a co-operative mechanic would be nice - right now sometimes we'll bring multiple people into sites to watch our backs if there are neutrals in system, but they don't contribute anything to the minigame or collection. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
2943
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 20:12:00 -
[199] - Quote
Bayta Charante wrote:If they add rats the usual cov ops frigates won't be able to do much. Covops frigates are surpassed in nearly all categories by their T1 variants, and are quite useless outside some very niche scouting, and running these complexes. They are far overdue for a rebalance, and balancing anything around them before that happens is a bad idea.
The rats I envision would make you have to actually make tradeoffs when you fit your ship, and for there to be other choices in ships to use than scanner ships and SoE ships. It's OK if SoE ships are the best at it; it's what they were designed for, after all. As is right now, though, being able to do the same stuff in hisec, lowsec and nullsec with literally no change in your ship or fit is poor in terms of variety and "interestingness".
How is a couple npc frigates spawning every minute or so in hisec, a couple cruisers in lowsec, and a BC and BS in nullsec, stacking up for a couple cycles if you don't clear them out as they arrive? In hisec the drones of a scanning frig would easily dispatch the rats, in lowsec a cruiser works just fine, etc. With the advent of mobile depots, you don't even have to have a core probe launcher on your ship all the time. Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - lowsec pirate operation, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Laiannah Sahireen
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 20:18:00 -
[200] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:
yes, we will balance the loot tables accordingly and will take another look at the loot in general :)
When you do this, please could you take a look at how this affects COSMOS sites?
Since loot spew came in, there are items that seem to have literally disappeared from the game, such as the Yan Jung Tachyon Stetoscope. I've never even seen it appear on a cargo scan, let alone in an actual loot spew container.
COSMOS sites were pretty screwed with loot spew anyway, as there was no pattern or reason to what items appeared in what containers.
Anyway, this is very welcome news - thanks for the heads up. |
|
Chan'aar
State War Academy Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 20:32:00 -
[201] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.
Praise be to Bob.
Make sure you wear a big ID badge at fanfest, I want to buy you lots of beer. |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
2451
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 20:57:00 -
[202] - Quote
Ougaa Baalstomp wrote: ...but I guess the fat neck-bearded botters will cry forever until anything resembing definite human interaction is removed from the game.
;)
You interact with humans by clicking on **** that flies past you? Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruitng members for lowsec PvP operations. Newbie friendly, free T1 frigate and dessy hangar, solo tutoring and PvP classes for new members. Join our in game channel 'weflyrifters' and speak to a recruiter today. |
probag Bear
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 21:09:00 -
[203] - Quote
So basically T2 rig prices are going back up to unaffordable, and the frequency with which they're used on subcaps is going back to once in a blue moon. Enjoy your 16mil a pop T2 med trims for as long as you can I guess, before they shoot back up to 70mil each. |
Naomi Tichim
Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine
104
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 21:13:00 -
[204] - Quote
Yay! Improving Archaeology |
Alundil
Sky Fighters
407
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 21:49:00 -
[205] - Quote
Good change, long overdue. Clone mechanics enchancements Deep Space Probe Revival |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1850
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 22:41:00 -
[206] - Quote
Chan'aar wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. Praise be to Bob. Make sure you wear a big ID badge at fanfest, I want to buy you lots of beer. not just you m8
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
23
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 22:48:00 -
[207] - Quote
So, whats the next thing to be made even easier? |
Kel hound
Lycosa Syndicate Surely You're Joking
91
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 23:43:00 -
[208] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.
I love you Affinity |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1853
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 00:02:00 -
[209] - Quote
Abramul wrote: Another option is to just disable cargo scanning, this would probably reduce time efficiency.
Oh hell no. I love being able to cargo scan. Furthermore, it reduces the supply of materials in low demand and increases the supply of materials in high demand. Not being able to would reinforce the phenomena of 90% of loot being complete junk. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
4908
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 00:34:00 -
[210] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:I feel like there's a disconnect here. Is fine motor control to click moving dots on the screen just that hardhard for everyone?
No. There are other issues such as latency, crowded UI on a small screen, overloaded commands (double-click to approach the loot container, or miss the container and end up sending your ship in the wrong direction because you double-clicked in space), camera clipping, other objects and debris getting in the way, all of this in addition to trying to click a three pixel target on a 2600 pixel-wide screen with mouse movement at 1000DPI.
Nothing else in EVE requires fine motor control at this scale.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
|
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
4908
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 00:35:00 -
[211] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:So, whats the next thing to be made even easier?
Did you complain when CCP took NPCs away from exploration sites? Or are you just whining because all the other hipsters are? Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
23
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 00:59:00 -
[212] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:So, whats the next thing to be made even easier? Did you complain when CCP took NPCs away from exploration sites? Or are you just whining because all the other hipsters are?
Thats why I run primarily Combat Exploration sites. Want to try again?
The micro and challenge in loot spew is minimal. Like others in this thread, Im finding it difficult to understand that some people seem to lack the manual dexterity and short term memorisation and data processing capacity to click a moving object about once every 5s (and then blame the game for that). Its something any able bodied individual without a personal medical condition should be capable of.
As to complaints about their hardware not being able to handle the strain of loot spew, there are obvious solutiins to that, and those are incumbent on the individual and their own hardware. My PC is a 4yr old piece ofndusty wreckage, yet it can handle the "load" just fine.
Furthermore, there is an inherent and blatant irony in your post that its amazing you seem to be unable to introspect upon. Namely that Im not the one who whined about loot spew. Im fine with how loot spew is. Direct your comments about "whining" to those who are, infact, "whining" that it is not ok.
Nor am I a hipster by any stretch of the imagination or even extended definition of the term. |
Beef Hammer
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 01:32:00 -
[213] - Quote
Honestly I figured it would be easier to just remove the ability to cargo scan the cans, and have all cans have 1 name, like "spew can" or whatever makes sense. Eliminates cherry picking.
But the loot spew cans do suck in general. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
4909
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 03:36:00 -
[214] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:The micro and challenge in loot spew is minimal. Like others in this thread, Im finding it difficult to understand that some people seem to lack the manual dexterity and short term memorisation and data processing capacity to click a moving object about once every 5s (and then blame the game for that). Its something any able bodied individual without a personal medical condition should be capable of. Perhaps my perspeftive on this is skewed and I have an unrealistic expectation of peoples micro skills from my years as an RTS player. Thats entirely possible.
Okay, now step back a little from your ad hominem against the entire community and think about this: what are people complaining about? Is it that none of us can click the little targets? Or is it simply that having just played the 3D mini game of "move the blue ball over the red ball then click and wait" then the mini game of "click these buttons until something happens", we are now faced with yet another mini game of "chase the bloody cans"?
For most people, the dislike for the loot spew is simply that it is inconvenient. It is an artificial inconvenience in much the same way that multi-mega-hitpoint structures are an annoying inconvenience in the null sec sov wars.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Furthermore, there is an inherent and blatant irony in your post that its amazing you seem to be unable to introspect upon. Namely that Im not the one who whined about loot spew. Im fine with how loot spew is. Direct your comments about "whining" to those who are, infact, "whining" that it is not ok.
You complained that loot spew was being removed and that this would trivialise the content.
You run combat sites: is that because the NPCs were removed from mag & radar sites, or because you don't care about mag and radar sites?
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
789
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 03:47:00 -
[215] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.
Bear in mind whilst you are doing this the distraction and temptation associated with the loot spew itself is an important part of the PVP surrounding these sites.
Just having the can open and press loot all, means every single task associated with hacking can be done as
1 - d-scan 2 - check overview 3 - perform single action 4 - goto 1
I don't actually have to think whilst hacking, ie all I need do to implement my strategy is remember where I strarted. |
Paul Maken
The Rising Stars The Initiative.
44
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 04:00:00 -
[216] - Quote
I feel like the mini-game works well overall, but that the gap between skill level 4 and skill level 5 should be narrowed.
Right now, at skill level 4 in the analyzer skill you will have 80 coherence while skill level 5 plus the increase to a T2 analyzer that comes with it will boost that to 110. That's not quite 50% and by itself could be reasonable.
The problem occurs with the defenses that you will encounter in 0.0 sites. At skill 4, you have 30 strength and at skill 5 you get to 40 strength with the T2 analyzer.
Here are the defenses commonly seen in 0.0 sites and the amount of damage that will be taken by someone with level 4 and level 5 attacking with no utilities:
50/40 - both level 4 and 5 will take 40 damage 80/20 - level 4 takes 40 damage, level 5 takes 20 damage 80/10 repair - level 4 takes 20 damage and 2 ticks of repair, level 5 takes 10 damage and 1 tick of repair 60/15 suppressor - level 4 takes 45 damage, level 5 takes 30 damage
So, at skill level 5 you have 37.5% more coherence but also take far less damage destroying defenses. This makes these sites very painful for a character that is only trained to skill level 4 as encountering a defense before finding a utility can doom an attempt. |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
789
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 04:18:00 -
[217] - Quote
Paul Maken wrote:I feel like the mini-game works well overall, but that the gap between skill level 4 and skill level 5 should be narrowed.
Right now, at skill level 4 in the analyzer skill you will have 80 coherence while skill level 5 plus the increase to a T2 analyzer that comes with it will boost that to 110. That's not quite 50% and by itself could be reasonable.
The problem occurs with the defenses that you will encounter in 0.0 sites. At skill 4, you have 30 strength and at skill 5 you get to 40 strength with the T2 analyzer.
Here are the defenses commonly seen in 0.0 sites and the amount of damage that will be taken by someone with level 4 and level 5 attacking with no utilities:
50/40 - both level 4 and 5 will take 40 damage 80/20 - level 4 takes 40 damage, level 5 takes 20 damage 80/10 repair - level 4 takes 20 damage and 2 ticks of repair, level 5 takes 10 damage and 1 tick of repair 60/15 suppressor - level 4 takes 45 damage, level 5 takes 30 damage
So, at skill level 5 you have 37.5% more coherence but also take far less damage destroying defenses. This makes these sites very painful for a character that is only trained to skill level 4 as encountering a defense before finding a utility can doom an attempt.
Except that someone with level 4 who plays properly can still get all the yellow cores almost all the time, and the red cores out at least half the time,meaning they'll only lose 25% of the hardest cans, and suffer a bit more time delay.
As I routinely catch young pilots in these miniprofs, if I am late into the miniprof, I'd expect to see 1 ruin missing, and 2 done for the site that has 3.
Any improvement in the skills and hacking for level 4 skills would make investment in level 5 largely pointless as level 4 is at the bottom of the extremely sensitive area due to the replay option.
|
Nanny State
NEW ORDER DEATH DEALERS CODE.
4
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 05:16:00 -
[218] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.
http://giphy.com/gifs/9yGa9mD2gyUnu
|
Jeremiah Saken
State Protectorate Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 07:10:00 -
[219] - Quote
Quote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.
Mail me your adress i will send you a bottle of good polish vodka
Quote:For me, the fun in exploration used to be that it was actually difficult to find the sites in the first place.
That's what exploration should be.
|
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
24
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 09:23:00 -
[220] - Quote
Since people seem to be emphasising that the loot spew is a third supefluous minigame ontop of already the first of probing the site, and the second of hacking it, how about this:
Suggestion: Add two buttons to the hack interface that become available ofter a succesful hack:
-Button 1: Access Node: ---You can directly loot from the node a small percentage of randomly determined cans from the site (that otherwise would have spewed). You have no control over what cans are randomly selected.
Button 2: Eject Node: ---Cans spew as now, and player can play the spew minigame for a better controlled chance at desired cans from the normal spew mechanic.
In this way the added risk/efforf of playing the spew minigame is retained, and those players who refuse to play it, or are otherwise somehow incapable of playing it, can still do the sites, albeit with reduced effort and hence reduced direct control of the rewards. |
|
Valencia Mariana
The Red Circle Inc.
17
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 09:23:00 -
[221] - Quote
Maximus Andendare wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. Please say you're not trolling us with this post. The hacking game was a great addition; the loot spew was terrible. It's awesome to hear that it's being taken care of.
Your joking right? The mini-game was the worst thing to happen to PvE since launch. I have nightmares and serious RSI in my right arm and a nervous twitch...
Please remove the minigame too! Valencia Mariana The Red Circle Inc. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
24
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 09:38:00 -
[222] - Quote
Valencia Mariana wrote:
Your joking right? The mini-game was the worst thing to happen to PvE since launch. I have nightmares and serious RSI in my right arm and a nervous twitch..!
Your joking right?
If not, you should probably go see a doctor and discontinue playing EVE for the time being to deal with the psychological trauma causing you nighmares, and stop making your RSI worse by playing a game that aggravates it.
Just saying. |
Valencia Mariana
The Red Circle Inc.
17
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 09:44:00 -
[223] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Valencia Mariana wrote:
Your joking right? The mini-game was the worst thing to happen to PvE since launch. I have nightmares and serious RSI in my right arm and a nervous twitch..!
Your joking right? If not, you should probably go see a doctor and discontinue playing EVE for the time being to deal with the psychological trauma causing you nighmares, and stop making your RSI worse by playing a game that aggravates it. Just saying.
The mini-game is ridiculous. Why would anyone implement a click fest of repetitiveness into a common wormhole chore? It was obvious it was going to become unbearable after a day. I mean if you had to do it like once in a blue moon then yeah it would be cool and stuff but if you pve several times a week or more it is just mind numbingly boring.
And stop trolling threads on your alt :P Valencia Mariana The Red Circle Inc. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
24
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 09:48:00 -
[224] - Quote
Valencia Mariana wrote:
And stop trolling threads on your alt :P
Please review my suggestion here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4263311#post4263311 |
Jeremiah Saken
State Protectorate Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 09:52:00 -
[225] - Quote
Quote:If not, you should probably go see a doctor and discontinue playing EVE for the time being to deal with the psychological trauma causing you nighmares, and stop making your RSI worse by playing a game that aggravates it.
I have same thing when can starts hissing. Those green crosses...
Quote:-Button 1: Access Node: ---You can directly loot from the nodes cargo hold a smaller percentage of randomly determined cans from the site (from the selection that otherwise would have spewed). You have no control over what cans are randomly selected.
Button 2: Eject Node: ---Cans spew as now, and player can play the spew minigame for a better controlled chance at desired cans from the normal spew mechanic.
How about 3rd option? Call for rats. We can use Nestor finally.
Play Dust if you want reflex based activity. Loot spew don't fit in EvE.
|
|
CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
1422
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 10:13:00 -
[226] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:Chan'aar wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. Praise be to Bob. Make sure you wear a big ID badge at fanfest, I want to buy you lots of beer. not just you m8
I am now quite excited for fanfest! CCP Affinity | Follow me on Twitter Content Designer for EVE Online |
|
|
CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
1422
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 10:13:00 -
[227] - Quote
<3 CCP Affinity | Follow me on Twitter Content Designer for EVE Online |
|
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
24
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 10:15:00 -
[228] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:[Play Dust if you want reflex based activity. Loot spew don't fit in EvE.
With all due respect, the micro required for spew retrieval is nothing like an FPS. It is however quite similar to RTS.
Primary is camera positioning so you can observe the cans without them being cluttered so you can distinguish which are of interest to you. As the cans spread you progresively zoom out using mousewheel or r/l button panning. Also positoning camera sothere are no light sources or light colored objects behind the spew that make reading the can identifiers difficult.
Once you have identified and selected the first can, you have about 5s to hover over the rest to find the next can of interest and to click it, once. While the previous and the qued selection are enacted, you again have about 5s to peruse the remaining cans dor the next simple single click selection. And so forth until the cans despawn.
I understand that this may be difficult for some, though I cant relate to it. But Ill take these people at their word that it is indeed hard for them and try to suggest solutions in light of that. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
4911
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 10:18:00 -
[229] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:3) Hardware and connection related concerns.
At least Australian ping times of 250ms aren't going to impact EVE gameplay as much as Tera gameplay. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
24
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 10:24:00 -
[230] - Quote
I dont see the relevance. Could you explain please?
All I see is a a huge number of elements which defy relevance, such as it being a separate game, separate client/server interaction system, having PvP implications whereas spew looting has absolutely none, as well as the author himself recommending that it is the onus of the player to ensure they have a connection capable of playing an online game with. |
|
Jeremiah Saken
State Protectorate Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 10:31:00 -
[231] - Quote
Quote:I understand that this may be difficult for some, though I cant relate to it. But Ill take these people at their word that it is indeed hard for them and try to suggest solutions in light of that. Originally this mechanism was for group exploration, not the risk-reward. After some training i can get all loot i want so what's the purpose of it?I had some ideas few pages in this thread what to do with it and hacking game. I think its easier for Devs just to remove it. First of all its a game i want to have fun playing it. This is the purpose of games i think. |
iLLeLogicaL
The Red Circle Inc.
33
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 10:39:00 -
[232] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Valencia Mariana wrote:
And stop trolling threads on your alt :P
Please review my suggestion here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4263311#post4263311Since it seems CCP will be making a change to the hack/spew mechanics, but are seemingly still undecided on some of the specifics, now is the time to make suggestions/proposals to help inform those from a community perspective. Personally, I dont think "remove the minigame" attitudes are constuctive or conducive to a better game or mechanics. The anti-spew camp has three main argument positions: 1) The sites involve too many minigames. First probing, then hacking, and finally spew. Fair enough argument, but to me atleast, its clear that if those factors are reduced, it will directly translate to lower rewards. Because less effort/risk is always equal to less reward. Frankly, data/relic sites are already quite low reward. Im wary of the commensurate consequences of making the sites easier by removing spew, which to me, would directly translate to lower rewards as well. 2) Im genuinely (no troll intended) surprised by how many people seem to have real dexterity issues with actually completing the spew mechanic. I dont think these people are lying or exaggerating, I take them at their word that it really is apparently hard for them. Coming from an RTS background, the manual dexterity required is trivial to me, but I am perhaps setting the nominal standard too high. My suggestion aims to mitigate that for those people, while still rewarding appropriately those who do take the rime and effort to do the spew game as well. 3) Hardware and connection related concerns, such as the small and stacked nature of rhe spew (which do however disperse geometrically as the spew spreads out). Also the fact that the spew is not indicated in overview but instead requires attention on the actual star field (which is unusual for EVE in many ways, which I personally like, but I understand others have limitations regarding small screen size etc). An indirect but workable solution would be making the spew cans detectable and selectable through the Overview so that people can accurately identify the cans and their distance for better retrieval.
Don't forget that in wormholes there's no such thing as no npcs on site, so you have to kill those aswell before you can start even with the hacking. Or even a site that triggers more npcs after you hack some cans. Even with perfect alt and implants and 2 guys on the can, I occasionaly miss a can.
And above let's not forget in wormholes the cans are completely random, so you HAVE to pick them all.
Good riddance to this nonsense confetti containers
|
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
323
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 10:42:00 -
[233] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. Nice. I really want to be grateful that you "hopefully" intend to do it. But it's like being grateful that somebody promises to stop kicking you in the crotch. Sure it's fabulous if they actually do stop, but you are still kinda pissed that they started in the first place and completely ignored you the many many many times you begged them to stop. So... yeah.
Plus it's just a "hopefully". Been fed more than enough of those by CCP to know just how much that's worth. Cool if you finally do it. But I ain't holding my breath. And it's still almost a year too long if it even does happen in summer. Sorry to be all bittervet, but you guys reap what you sow... |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1744
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 15:34:00 -
[234] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:Daniel Plain wrote:Chan'aar wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. Praise be to Bob. Make sure you wear a big ID badge at fanfest, I want to buy you lots of beer. not just you m8 I am now quite excited for fanfest!
Badges? We dont need no stinking badges!...
But seriously guys no need for her to wear an id all you have to do is look for the prettiest lady there. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9075
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 15:43:00 -
[235] - Quote
Valencia Mariana wrote:Maximus Andendare wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. Please say you're not trolling us with this post. The hacking game was a great addition; the loot spew was terrible. It's awesome to hear that it's being taken care of. Your joking right? The mini-game was the worst thing to happen to PvE since launch. I have nightmares and serious RSI in my right arm and a nervous twitch... Please remove the minigame too! I like the minigame. Especially since I got really good at it. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
|
Jeremiah Saken
State Protectorate Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 15:50:00 -
[236] - Quote
Quote:But seriously guys no need for her to wear an id all you have to do is look for the prettiest lady there.
So he is she? Shame i can't afford plane to Iceland...
Quote:I like the minigame. Especially since I got really good at it.
Its not annoying, and i hope Devs expand it. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1858
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 16:22:00 -
[237] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote: From the perspective of the PvPer, the aim of an exploration site is to keep the explorer visible in space long enough to probe down and scram. The old system of cycling a module was much better at achieving this than the modern system: I can hack the can and just click the parts and data containers, then disappear. There's no finesse to hacking: just keep clicking hacking nodes until you defeat the system core.
There's some weird cognitive dissonance here, how can you compare the two systems and then criticize the current one for a "lack of finesse," specifically in the context of PVP? The new system is much more effective from the perspective of a a pvp encounter. The old system of staring at a cycling module was awful, because it required no attention or interaction from the hacker. That's boring for the hacker, and it also means the hacker can instantly respond (flee) any threat that uncloaks. The minigame now involves interaction from the hacker, meaning they have to focus on the game (in the case of the numerous difficult boards one may find), and keep an eye on the overview for threats. And in quickly clearing a hard board, there's a lot of finesse. If you go too fast you will make non-optimal choices in completing the game, and to me its well balanced enough (with t2 module, nullsec) that even a minor mistake like that has been enough to lose me the board.
There is absolutely ZERO "finesse" in activating a module on a can and waiting for it to open, then repeating for every single can. The current gameplay of scanning the cans, evaluating their loot, splitting attention between the game and the environment is all much more interesting, and I find it incredible that anyone could believe otherwise.
I haven't done much hacking in lowsec, maybe the boards are all so easy that you can bulldoze through everything? The difficulty seems perfectly calibrated in null. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Limarr
Rennfeuer Curatores Veritatis Alliance
8
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 18:05:00 -
[238] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.
Any change to keep the spew mechanic optional for players who like it?
Some scripts you have to add to your hacking module can handle this.
1.) Focused Hacking Script: direct access to loot, lower reward 2.) Scattering Hacking Script: spews containers, higher reward 3.) no script: 50/50
The mechanic itself is good, but annoying to do this every time, so let the player decide.
|
Steven Hackett
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
25
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 19:15:00 -
[239] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. \o/ Please also include the removal of that king facebook game you added instead of the module cycle.. Thanks.. (yes, I consider it bad when the developers idea of fun is a minigame worse than candycrush - maybe you shold ban facebook on those work PC's to prevent other devs getting hooked on these bad ideas.. - thanks)
Limarr wrote:
Any change to keep the spew mechanic optional for players who like it?
Some scripts you have to add to your hacking module can handle this.
1.) Focused Hacking Script: direct access to loot, lower reward 2.) Scattering Hacking Script: spews containers, higher reward 3.) no script: 50/50
The mechanic itself is good, but annoying to do this every time, so let the player decide.
No thanks |
Bellatren Star
BRAB0 The Volition Cult
58
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 19:26:00 -
[240] - Quote
I found the lewt spew a fun part of exploration :(
I enjoyed the risk factor. Bellatren Star: - "I have absolutly no idea what's on the other side of that NullSec gate but i'm going to jump my Freighter in anyway! #YOLO!." - Just some provi guy |
|
HeXxploiT
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 19:31:00 -
[241] - Quote
Noxisia Arkana wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. Best early christmas present ever.
I know quite a few pilots who will be doing backflips over this news. |
Atticus Aurilen
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 19:37:00 -
[242] - Quote
Hooray for the end of the worst game mechanic in the history of game design! |
hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved
33
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 19:45:00 -
[243] - Quote
I love the mini-game, it's awesome (loot-spew not).
Anyone that hates on the mini-games is either a botter, AFKer, or a nutcase who "plays" EvE for work, rather than fun |
Cultural Enrichment
Jenkem Puffing Association
12
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 19:48:00 -
[244] - Quote
Loot spew was nothing near a good game mechanism, but caving in to the retards who couldnt find the focus of clicking a few cans is ridiculous. |
Orlacc
614
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 20:14:00 -
[245] - Quote
Great news about the spew!
I too love the mini-game as the pilots playing don't see me creeping up. "Measure Twice, Cut Once." |
Janeway84
Masters Of Destiny Pride Before Fall
77
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 21:01:00 -
[246] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.
Can't wait for summer |
Dani Aider
The Scope Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 21:50:00 -
[247] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Ivory Kantenu wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. Curious, what exactly is prompting this? It seems like moving it to the past of 'Open to loot' will hurt the economy even more than the current system in place, even if just a little. They will most likely reduce the amount of loot as well, for balance. Although I still say sites could be improved by adding more loot types. Increase the breadth of the loot table to prevent the market from being saturated with any given type. For example, skill books already show up. How about putting ALL skill books in the loot table, and setting the drop rate at something below typical player demand? That way the price will not crash. BPO's are another possibility. (Yes, originals). Again just make sure the drop rate is low, so there will still be buys from the NPCs. yes, we will balance the loot tables accordingly and will take another look at the loot in general :)
LOL statement of the month. The loot was already a joke since this new hacking / loot feature was implemented. So you are going to make them eve more worthless ? awesome.
What about all the sites lefted spawned in space where someone has gone in with cargo scanner, emptied the only can worth looting, leaving a worthless site in space ?
I think you need to revise the despawning of these sites too and revert to the old mechanic where if you hack a can and warp out, the site despawns.
|
M1k3y Koontz
Thorn Project Surely You're Joking
548
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 22:04:00 -
[248] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.
Yay \o/
Hiton Kado wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. Why? I actually liked the idea of having to work for your loot. Dumbing it down will bring it closer to mind numbing gameplay like mining.
Work for you loot... as in master a hacking game that, in nullsec, can be next to impossible?
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Thanks whiners.
Probably loot will be nerfed now, so that you microless fat fingers can finally handle a simple mini-game.
Oh noes, the value of loot will now rise to compensate for the decreased supply! Whatever will we do!!! How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
SFM Hobb3s
Vanguard Frontiers Black Legion.
67
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 22:18:00 -
[249] - Quote
In the thread of crazy one-lined ideas it was my suggestion that the entire ship-wreck mechanic be also replaced by loot spew.
So sad. So sad. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
27
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 22:26:00 -
[250] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:Oh noes, the value of loot will now rise to compensate for the decreased supply! Whatever will we do!!!
Value wont rise. Quality of loot from the nodes will decrease. Youll earn less for the few pieces your fat fingers couldnt even get before. |
|
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2051
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 22:37:00 -
[251] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.
Christ. Credit where credit's due, Affinity, and this is the right move. But seriously, why has it taken so long? And what about the stuff that's been broken in the meantime? What exactly is the overall path you guys envision for PvE in general and how does this -- or anything else, really -- fit in? |
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
67
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 23:02:00 -
[252] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.
Thank goodness... Capsuleers finally learned how to throw a net over the thing and operate docking collars correctly.
|
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
658
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 23:13:00 -
[253] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.
Thank God.
Ps if you wonder, or if you are not sure, that you have gauged the player reaction correctly, the clue is in it's name.
(Vomit or spew is generally not desired or appreciated)
.......and i'm pretty sure people need to be somewhat wierd to enjoy it. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Speedkermit Damo
Demonic Retribution Nullsec Ninjas
265
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 23:23:00 -
[254] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:The micro and challenge in loot spew is minimal. Like others in this thread, Im finding it difficult to understand that some people seem to lack the manual dexterity and short term memorisation and data processing capacity to click a moving object about once every 5s (and then blame the game for that). Its something any able bodied individual without a personal medical condition should be capable of. Perhaps my perspeftive on this is skewed and I have an unrealistic expectation of peoples micro skills from my years as an RTS player. Thats entirely possible. Okay, now step back a little from your ad hominem against the entire community and think about this: what are people complaining about? Is it that none of us can click the little targets? Or is it simply that having just played the 3D mini game of "move the blue ball over the red ball then click and wait" then the mini game of "click these buttons until something happens", we are now faced with yet another mini game of "chase the bloody cans"? For most people, the dislike for the loot spew is simply that it is inconvenient. It is an artificial inconvenience in much the same way that multi-mega-hitpoint structures are an annoying inconvenience in the null sec sov wars. The experience is incongruent with the rest of the game. It's like you're in the middle of a Counterstrike match and in order to shoot the target with the sniper rifle, you need to point the sniper rifle at the target, then play a quick game of checkers, then play jumping jacks. Some people will enjoy the experience because they're happy to vacuum up any swill that gets dumped in their trough. For me, the fun in exploration used to be that it was actually difficult to find the sites in the first place. These days you just open the probing interface and dump the probes on top of the places where the game has already told you the sites are located. 2AU spread, scan. Most sites are now 100%, some sites you'll need to tighten the spread to 1AU or 0.5AU. There's no challenge to it any more. CCP took away DSPs because having a list of what sites were in systems was trivialising the content; then CCP gave us the system scanner because having the game hold your hand and direct you to place your probes on the little X is (apparently) not trivialising the content. I don't care for the hacking mini game, and I find the loot spew an annoying diversion. From the perspective of the PvPer, the aim of an exploration site is to keep the explorer visible in space long enough to probe down and scram. The old system of cycling a module was much better at achieving this than the modern system: I can hack the can and just click the parts and data containers, then disappear. There's no finesse to hacking: just keep clicking hacking nodes until you defeat the system core. Salvos Rhoska wrote:Furthermore, there is an inherent and blatant irony in your post that its amazing you seem to be unable to introspect upon. Namely that Im not the one who whined about loot spew. Im fine with how loot spew is. Direct your comments about "whining" to those who are, infact, "whining" that it is not ok. You complained that loot spew was being removed and that this would trivialise the content. I did not misrepresent your opinion, you are simply putting words in my mouth because you took offence at being labelled a bandwagon rider. You run combat sites: is that because the NPCs were removed from mag & radar sites, or because you never ran mag and radar sites?
So loot spew is slightly inconvenient. How terrible for you. Don't Panic.
|
Skalle Pande
Teknisk Forlag
50
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 00:36:00 -
[255] - Quote
My 2 cents: If there are too many minigames, then let the hacking game go rather than the loot spew. The hacking game at present is mainly luck, the loot spew actually needs you to make quick choices and be deft, real time. The hacking game is a bit out of style with the rest of the game and a bit silly-clickery - at least it is quick, though, but it is just another mindless grind. If that would be the only thing left in exploration, it would become as boring as mining, and as easy to do semi-AFK.
But I realize I'm probably in the minority here. So this would be the next best solution, in my opinion:
Maximus Andendare wrote:Honestly, CCP could keep the loot spew mechanic, so as to not waste those work hours creating it, but just have it trigger on an unsuccessful hack. So, you can hack the container successfully and you get a loot window. Unsuccessfully and you get to scramble getting some loot. Maybe you'll get nothing, maybe you'll get something. It's a small consolation prize to not having your skills up high enough. Plus, it lessens the skill cliff for new pilots, since even if they are unsuccessful, they can still loot something until they get better skilled. This, this. Eminent idea, best so far, completely meaningful lore-wise. Add perhaps an AOE explosion effect with damage depandent on distance from can, and/or the arrival of an NPC patrol, within, say, 40 seconds, just to emphasize that you blew it (literally!).
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Since it seems CCP will be making a change to the hack/spew mechanics, but are seemingly still undecided on some of the specifics, now is the time to make suggestions/proposals to help inform those from a community perspective. +1.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Personally, I dont think "remove the minigame" attitudes are constructive or conducive to a better game or mechanics
The anti-spew camp has three main argument positions: 1) The sites involve too many minigames. First probing, then hacking, and finally spew. Fair enough argument, but to me atleast, its clear that if those factors are reduced, it will directly translate to lower rewards. Because less effort/risk is always equal to less reward. Frankly, data/relic sites are already quite low reward. ...
2) ...many people seem to have real dexterity issues with actually completing the spew mechanic....
3) Hardware and connection related concerns, such as the small and stacked nature of rhe spew (which do however disperse geometrically as the spew spreads out). Also the fact that the spew is not indicated in overview but instead requires attention on the actual star field (which is unusual for EVE in many ways, which I personally like, but I understand others have limitations regarding small screen size etc). An indirect but workable solution would be making the spew cans detectable and selectable through the Overview so that people can accurately identify the cans and their distance for better retrieval. I agree with the first, but not with the third. I too prefer focusing on space rather than on the Overview, and actually it is quite challenging to have to do both - since you have to watch out for gankers (or rat patrols, at least in ghost sites) still. So, you have to make room (I play on a small screen), you have to prepare, you can't just mindlessly continue. I like that. It's a space game, you should relate to space.
The second point ... I find that hard to believe, but even if that is actually the case, I would consider it an argument for KEEPING the challenge. Really, guys, then you need to train. But maybe the real reason is that it takes people out of spreadsheet mode, you may actually miss some interesting pieces of loot - but hey, there should be no such thing as certain success, imho.
As for those who ask for more variety in the loot tables, less NPC junk and more distinction between data and relic sites I am in complete agreement, no matter if loot comes from normal or spewed cans. Low-value player-demanded stuff would be ever so much better than stuff that can only be sold to an NPC 10 jumps away, so do away with the Carbon, the Data Sheets and the rest of the useless "trade" goods. OR better still - make them useful to players. But that is for another thread. |
Blood Viper Johnson
Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
43
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 00:39:00 -
[256] - Quote
ccp why you cant just return npc back on relics and datas?just now hackin is too easy) |
Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 00:40:00 -
[257] - Quote
So I came back to EVE recently purely because I heard about the new hacking minigame, and the lack of "requirement" (will come back to that) for a combat-fit ship for it. I don't know much about hacking in high/low sec, because I've been exclusively sneaking in to nullsec alone to do my hacking, with the rewards being pretty decent so far. I definitely don't disagree the system could do with a few changes, but there's a few things that work, and are good.
1. Keep it soloable in a covops ship. Again, main reason I came on was to do just this,, sneak into other people's nullsec where the rewards are (hopefully) the best, get that stuff back in to hisec. If it feels like a chore probably if you're a resident or surrounded by blues, in which case it feels just like doing it in hisec, only more profitable. If anti-social whelps like myself can get out and do it, it offers a fat target to pirates trying to get back and forth from nullsec to highsec, and that's a good thing to me. Yeah, having teammates helps a lot here, but hey, if there's reward to be had, a lot will take the risk I reckon. PS W-Space hacking is an exception here, but I guess that's fair? I don't know, I don't do w-space.
2. But just coz it is soloable, doesn't mean it has to stay soloable One of the biggest problems is that there's no real consequence of failure, and no cumulative risk vs reward. Your hack is either successful or not. Two strikes and a pretty boom. Meh. A couple things could help here.
- If you *fail* a hack i.e you run out of coherence, it spawns NPCs, making the whole site now unusable to a solo covops frig. That may also encourage people to use bigger ships (Tech 2/3 cruisers) so they actually stand a chance of fighting off some NPC pirates.
- This means the idea of clicking and "maybe" winning needs to be a thing. So instead of the static amounts of damage hack defences do, make it variable, so if you're feeling lucky, you click through, and you might win, or you might lose. But now you need a reason for people to want to keep clicking despite the risk.
- Make the longer you play the hacking game relate directly to the loot you get out. Rather than just "Find the core", have the loot be stored in data-cache-like objects, or even *in* defences. The more of the puzzle board you clear out, the more loot you get out. Then this introduces 'aborting' the hack, and 'jetting' the hack.
- Without a core, the hack has "no end" except player-initiated termination. If the player *aborts* the hack, then it'll simply reset just like now. Do it twice and it blows up as usual. If you "jet" the hack, it spits out a *normal* (not a loot spew) can with whatever you successfully hacked in it, but that's it for that node.
Keep the loot known, but randomish. Although it's pretty implicit, I do like that you can cargo scan to see what loot there is, but there is still a chance you might not get it. Loot spew mechanic *is* a bit naff, but it does achieve this randomisation of the known, possible loot a little. But as mentioned, tying it back to the minigame may help. And yes, keep the goddamn minigame. Mining needs something like this too, because AFK gaming is balls.
Oh, and I read this somewhere else, but totally agree the interfaces for invention should blow up, since these are primarily sourced via hacking. |
OldWolf69
IR0N. SpaceMonkey's Alliance
137
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 01:51:00 -
[258] - Quote
I just love the introducing of "uber-easy" ways to do things as a escuse to nerf income. Fozzie did grow up. Good "work" CCP. Still i must ask. "WHY"? |
Anela Cistine
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
189
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 03:30:00 -
[259] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Ivory Kantenu wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. Curious, what exactly is prompting this? It seems like moving it to the past of 'Open to loot' will hurt the economy even more than the current system in place, even if just a little. They will most likely reduce the amount of loot as well, for balance. Although I still say sites could be improved by adding more loot types. Increase the breadth of the loot table to prevent the market from being saturated with any given type. For example, skill books already show up. How about putting ALL skill books in the loot table, and setting the drop rate at something below typical player demand? That way the price will not crash. BPO's are another possibility. (Yes, originals). Again just make sure the drop rate is low, so there will still be buys from the NPCs. yes, we will balance the loot tables accordingly and will take another look at the loot in general :)
When looking at loot tables, any chance some BPCs could have Productivity Level and Material level other than 0? That could be a way to improve the value of the haul without simply flooding the market with more items. It could also add a bit of complexity to determining how much a BPC is worth. |
DarthRazr
DLM Enterprises Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 04:34:00 -
[260] - Quote
I see nothing wrong with the current relic / data setup.. No need to adjust something that isn't broken. Exploring is very easy, I do just as well with a cargo scanner so I know what to grab, not hard to learn at all..
* I must protest this potential change*
* Do not nerf loot as well*
Off my soap box. |
|
Crysantos Callahan
Control-Space DARKNESS.
15
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 09:41:00 -
[261] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.
******* amazing! Best news I've heard in a while.
Can we now get spawns back in relic sites or at least some kind of entertainment except exciting debris and large collidable objects who are fighting dirty against us by stepping in our way to the next can?
|
Quinn Corvez
Probe Patrol Awakened.
212
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 09:52:00 -
[262] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. You should improve the hacking mini game while you are at it.
Instead of is being a game of luke in trying to find the goal, you should show the goal at the start and make it a game about path finding. |
Arista Shahni
Macedonian Phalanx Circle-Of-Two
81
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 09:55:00 -
[263] - Quote
Thanks for no splatter. When the ystem was shown pre-release I wasn't lying in th stream of screaming posts about the being diabled thing for ease of not wanting to deal with an "annoyance".
Yes, some people DON'T have the fine motor coordination for that mechanic, I play EVE cause it DOESN'T require the kind of fine motor coordination other games do, and I know I'm not the ony player with these kinds of issues. I stopped explo 100% after it because it was literally impossible for me.
A reason to put explo skills back into the queue.
"I was dreaming once, and I dreampt of a world where I was nothing more than a biological fitting; a slave to the machine and crew, instead of the other way around. Don't you wonder at how easy it would have been for this scenario to happen, instead of how it actually unfolded?" |
Alistair Cononach
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
179
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 13:20:00 -
[264] - Quote
Something everyone seems to be missing:
If you weren't a mouth breathing retread, loot spew was perhaps annoying, but irrelevant. Good players who knew what they were doing got 100% of the "good stuff" every time.
Now, with loot spew going away, CCP is surely to nerf overall loot.
So, good players will make much less from exploration, so that bads and mouth breathers can make the same as us.
Wake up kids, this is a NERF to exploration income, pure and simple.
Yay, no more spew, but boo, now each site will be worth 10,000 isk. Yeah, great.
If all they do is remove spew and reduce loot, this is a rather nasty nerf to exploration income to mollify noobs and bads and whiners tbh.
Good players happy about this are cutting off their nose to spite their face. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2052
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 13:46:00 -
[265] - Quote
Alistair Cononach wrote:Something everyone seems to be missing:
If you weren't a mouth breathing retread, loot spew was perhaps annoying, but irrelevant. Good players who knew what they were doing got 100% of the "good stuff" every time.
Now, with loot spew going away, CCP is surely to nerf overall loot.
So, good players will make much less from exploration, so that bads and mouth breathers can make the same as us.
Wake up kids, this is a NERF to exploration income, pure and simple.
Yay, no more spew, but boo, now each site will be worth 10,000 isk. Yeah, great.
If all they do is remove spew and reduce loot, this is a rather nasty nerf to exploration income to mollify noobs and bads and whiners tbh.
Good players happy about this are cutting off their nose to spite their face.
A face that bad deserves some kitchen sink surgery. But as I posted earlier in the thread, I can't be wholly excited without knowing where all this is going. And that's bothering me. |
Rashnu Gorbani
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
13
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 13:47:00 -
[266] - Quote
I would've been more happy if the minigame was removed. The loot, well we knew which cans to pick up anyway. Will T2 rig prices increase? Or just exploration becomes like mining, only newbies do it because it's worth so much less? It is a viable solo source of income now. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
32
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 14:32:00 -
[267] - Quote
I propose that there is an option to play the loot spew minigame for better profit, whereas those who are for some reason incapable of playing it, have a reduced profit option.
Such as this:
Suggestion: Add two buttons to the hack interface that become available after a succesful hack:
-Button 1: Access Node: ---You can directly loot from the nodes cargo hold a smaller percentage of randomly determined cans from the site (from the selection that otherwise would have spewed). You have no control over what cans are randomly selected.
Button 2: Eject Node: ---Cans spew as now, and player can play the spew minigame for a better controlled chance at desired cans from the normal spew mechanic.
In this way the added risk/efforf of playing the spew minigame is retained, and those players who refuse to play it, or are otherwise somehow incapable of playing it, can still do the sites, albeit with reduced effort and hence reduced direct control of the rewards.
This would be consistent with risk/reward systems in EVE overall, and "fair" to both sides of the argument. To the anti-spew folk, in that since they wont play the spew game, they get potentially reduced reward, as commensurate with their reduced effort and associated risk. And to the pro-spew folk, since they invest the time, effort and risk of playing the additional stage of the minigame." |
Masao Kurata
Z List
43
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 14:38:00 -
[268] - Quote
I cannot understand how most people are so happy with the removal of gameplay in favour of a step towards mindless module cycling. The can cloud minigame requires significant attention and improves the likelihood of pvp at relic and data sites. The only obnoxious thing is the inclusion of booby prizes such as carbon, which can be removed without altering the loot mechanic at all.
Please reconsider, this mechanic was better developed than the hacking minigame itself. |
Rena'Thras
Trantor Mentalics
9
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 18:13:00 -
[269] - Quote
Why is it that people that want "engaging gameplay" always go to one of two standbys - either NPC spawns that you have to fight (because every exploration ship is really a COMBAT SHIP, amIrite?), or ganking/attempted ganking/PvP?
How lacking in imagination you all are.
Likewise, trying to click boxes with a mouse was either ridiculously easy (if you were stationary and using a mouse) or damn near impossible (if you were orbiting and using a touch pad) - I've done it both ways.
And even the spew boxes itself isn't something you can "skill" through. You have to scan it first, then you have to load up a website to tell you the name of the different cargo boxes that will correspond to the loot you actually want, otherwise you'll go on a mad clicking spree and end up with tons of worthless Carbon which seems to have no useful application (and, at the very least, doesn't generate any ISK commensurate with the effort you spent scanning it down and getting it - remember, you've already had to train up skills and win a hacking game after also scanning down the site.)
The hacking game was fun, but it would be cooler if there was more going on. I accept that it's a first iteration, though. Something more than randomness. Hell, you could even make it where the PvP was hacking! Why not make it where, when someone uses their module on the site, it opens the minigame and puts up a shield so their ship can't be shot at...but anyone ELSE can also hack the site. Then it becomes a race to the finish to see who can get to the core first and defeat it. Oh, and the hackers can attack each other's viruses.
See, that's actually making PvP out of the exploration minigame instead of, you know, giving all the cards to the PvP ship to come and shoot the explorer while he/she is hacking.
.
Honestly, most of these "it's too easy/mindless!" posts scream "I'm a PvPer and want to have an easier time ganking explorers! CCP, if you get rid of loot spew, they can hack, loot, and get away before I can kill them with no effort on my part!!!"
There are ways to make things interesting and challenging - even to encourage varied PvP - without just making it where combat ships have more chances to shoot at explorer ships. Hell, trade moguls have their very own version of PvP which requires not a single bullet to be fired.
Unless all exploration Frigates/Covops Frigates are being converted into combat frigates that just ALSO carry probe launchers and data/relic analyzers, then the idea of making exploration ships sitting ducks for unwanted PvP gank fests is stupid. Make it a fight worth having - either ship to ship or virus to virus - and you might be onto something. Heck, give the Recon Cruisers a piece of the pie with hacking bonuses and weapon bonuses. Might be fun to hop into a Recon and get in on the action.
The loot spew itself is, at best, annoying, and at worst, VERY annoying. It doesn't add compelling gameplay.
The reason for it was to encourage team exploration, but a better way to do that would be to allow team hacking, imo. Let two viruses attack the system at the same time and give increased loot if they take down the core (which can have its strength boosted for each additional virus in play).
There are other things in Eve than (ship to ship) combat, you know. /sigh |
Tzar Sinak
Mythic Heights
99
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 18:36:00 -
[270] - Quote
Thank you for removing the loot spew. As a brain dead mouth breathing neck beard, I and many many many others expressed our concern about this mechanic when it was first introduced on the test server:
As a game mechanic it simply did not fit in with any other mechanic that currently exists in Eve. It penalizes players with motor issues as described above. It made laptop play very difficult especially when on the road with questionable internet connections. It was difficult to handle when the object models got in the way of travel. (How the SoE BS is suppose to achieve this is very questionable) Difficulty selecting mini cans due to the server "tick" behavior resulting in missed cans and wasted time.
Before Rubicon the act of exploration was the killing of rats and the watching of your hacking mods cycle until the loot became available.
Rubicon introduced two mechanics: The mini game and the spew. The mini game was a vast improvement over just sitting there recycling the hacking module (as now seen in Ghost sites). What made this even better was the (remote) possibility that this mechanic could be used in other areas of the game, like POS removal after a successful hack (accessing the shields and if you have the required skills POS dismantling and theft), and the the possibility of retaining (and building) the buff scripts collected during the game.
The spew was seen by most as a punishment for a successful hack. It was suggested many times to use the loot spew but as a second chance to get something should the hack fail. Even then there could be a % chance to get the spew as opposed to the whole thing blowing up.
So people made the most of a bad mechanic. A post was made to teach players the best mini cans to grab given what a cargo scan revealed allowing players the best chance of catching the "good stuff". The understanding of what to grab and what to ignore was the true dumbing down of the mechanic. Bring friends to participate turned out to be very boring for the friends.
It is true that the loot tables were adjusted to ensure that income with spew for the solo player matched pre-Rubicon levels however this fell flat due to an "unexpected" turn of events; The skill requirements to be an average explorer was dramatically reduced. To compensate the high end sites were not adjusted to become more difficult to find. The end result was far more people exploring (good) but a significant drop in value of loot due to market saturation (bad).
Exploration used to be very difficult that required significant time to obtain a chance of getting something good. The skill and time investment was significant and drew only a small population to the profession. This was not a bad situation but if you really wanted to explore you were going to have to invest the time for the skills and develop the skill to discover the good stuff.
I appreciate CCPs desire to get more people involved in scanning and exploration. Unfortunately the balance of the high skill level high time commitment has tipped too far in favor of low barrier of entry. A review of this balance is in order. If the removal of the spew mechanic and the remapping of the loot tables is the beginning of this then I for one welcome it. |
|
Jeremiah Saken
State Protectorate Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 20:39:00 -
[271] - Quote
Thank you Tzar Sinak. This is exactly what i feel about post odyssey exploration.
Quote:The mini game was a vast improvement over just sitting there recycling the hacking module (as now seen in Ghost sites).
i didn't know there's no hacking game in ghost sites. |
HeXxploiT
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 22:54:00 -
[272] - Quote
This is one of those things that was just a matter of time. The new hacking game sucks but I can live with it. Since when does something disappear in space anyway? The mechanic was introduced to encouraged group activity. Overall exploratory activity has increased but 95% of it are solo cloaky frigates. Exploration was my favorite part of the game prior to these changes and I have all but stopped since this patch as the majority of sites are these preposterous loot/poof sites.
I will do cartwheels when I can once again explore as I once did with my mates.
|
Elmore Jones
Nebula II
37
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 00:19:00 -
[273] - Quote
Thanks for listening and removing the spew.
+++ Reality Error 404 - Reboot Cosmos +++ |
DSpite Culhach
287
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 00:20:00 -
[274] - Quote
If you want to keep explorers in space longer to allow better chances at ganking, then a more complex mini game with a trade off for perfect completion being better loot is the answer. If the system had nodes that if left active cause can explosions, then a total failure would result in multiple can explosions and higher damage levels.
if the idea is to make it a better experience for multiple players, then it should have been setup to allow active participation in the hack, NOT in playing a clicking mini game. Two players can attack one ship, surely two players can attack a system and the combined result (2 succeses, 2 failures, or 1/1 of each) be possible.
If players did not try to find loopholes and minmaxing workarounds to every gaddam thing CCP does, then CCP would not bother creating weird arsed mechanics as a pre-emptive measure to try and put a stop to it.
~ |
probag Bear
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 17:25:00 -
[275] - Quote
Rashnu Gorbani wrote: Will T2 rig prices increase? Or just exploration becomes like mining, only newbies do it because it's worth so much less? It is a viable solo source of income now.
This is the main problem. By making T2 salvage more common, Odyssey made T2 rigs an actually viable choice. The price of T2 med trims fell from 70mil each to 16mil each. The volume traded absolutely exploded across the entire T2 rig market. The number of T2 med trims that Eve players fit each day now is greater than the number of ALL T2 rigs combined together fit per day pre-Odyssey.
If you revert loot tables now, you kill the entire industry. And you don't just go back to 70mil T2 med trims. You go even higher, probably above 100mil per T2 med trim, due to the introduction of Capital Rigs, their insane raw material cost, and their relative inflexibility of demand. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2207
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 20:33:00 -
[276] - Quote
probag Bear wrote:Rashnu Gorbani wrote: Will T2 rig prices increase? Or just exploration becomes like mining, only newbies do it because it's worth so much less? It is a viable solo source of income now.
This is the main problem. By making T2 salvage more common, Odyssey made T2 rigs an actually viable choice. The price of T2 med trims fell from 70mil each to 16mil each. The volume traded absolutely exploded across the entire T2 rig market. The number of T2 med trims that Eve players fit each day now is greater than the number of ALL T2 rigs combined together fit per day pre-Odyssey. If you revert loot tables now, you kill the entire industry. And you don't just go back to 70mil T2 med trims. You go even higher, probably above 100mil per T2 med trim, due to the introduction of Capital Rigs, their insane raw material cost, and their relative inflexibility of demand. The T2 rig price has more to do with the fact that after Odyssey the number of active explorers by a factor of 6. Im not sure if this is still true though.
The ease of scanning is what drove the T2 rig market down, not so much the loot tables. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Tzar Sinak
Mythic Heights
99
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 03:20:00 -
[277] - Quote
I would respectfully suggest that we learn more about what the new loot tables become before panicking. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
38
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 07:40:00 -
[278] - Quote
Tzar Sinak wrote:I would respectfully suggest that we learn more about what the new loot tables become before panicking. Its not likely the loot tables are going to be more profitable. Its also likely that the quality of loot will drop, alongside the decreased effort of doing the sites. |
Anize Oramara
S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass
147
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 08:17:00 -
[279] - Quote
Tzar Sinak wrote:I would respectfully suggest that we learn more about what the new loot tables become before panicking.
But the panicking masses are hilarious! |
|
CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
1469
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 10:24:00 -
[280] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Tzar Sinak wrote:I would respectfully suggest that we learn more about what the new loot tables become before panicking. Its not likely the loot tables are going to be more profitable. Its also likely that the quality of loot will drop, alongside the decreased effort of doing the sites.
The quality of the loot will not drop, this is not a nerf to exploration :) I will post more details when I can. CCP Affinity | Follow me on Twitter Content Designer for EVE Online |
|
|
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
38
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 10:29:00 -
[281] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Tzar Sinak wrote:I would respectfully suggest that we learn more about what the new loot tables become before panicking. Its not likely the loot tables are going to be more profitable. Its also likely that the quality of loot will drop, alongside the decreased effort of doing the sites. The quality of the loot will not drop, this is not a nerf to exploration :) I will post more details when I can.
With all due respect, removing the loot spew IS a nerf to Exploration :) Looking forward to see the details. |
|
CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
1469
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 10:44:00 -
[282] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Tzar Sinak wrote:I would respectfully suggest that we learn more about what the new loot tables become before panicking. Its not likely the loot tables are going to be more profitable. Its also likely that the quality of loot will drop, alongside the decreased effort of doing the sites. The quality of the loot will not drop, this is not a nerf to exploration :) I will post more details when I can. With all due respect, removing the loot spew IS a nerf to Exploration :) Looking forward to see the details.
I would be very interested to know how you have come to this conclusion :) CCP Affinity | Follow me on Twitter Content Designer for EVE Online |
|
seth Hendar
I love you miners
467
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 10:48:00 -
[283] - Quote
easy, you first nerfed it with odyssey due to silly game + loot bukkake. and since it was easier, you reduced loot.
now you make it easier again, so you will "adjust loot accordingly" => we all know this means "nerf loot table".
what happen when you nerf loot on an already bad loot acivity => you burry it.
if you fail to see this, you are either delusional, or worse, alter a game mechanic you do not understand / play with at all
so yeah, final nail on exploration's coffin
suggestion for CCP: it is a mandatory prereq for one dev to actually play the part of the game they are supposed to work on when it comes to game mechanics, this silly "i've no idea what i'm doing but i'll do it anyway" shall stop
Daishi Kurita wrote:Speaking on loot. PLEASE start having Data and Ship Interfaces be destroyed. Ship interfaces for example used to be the main reason to run hacking sites; after years of them dropping and not a single one being destroyed they are literally worthless. I don't even know why they are in the loot table anymore.
This suggestion was made by many players YEARS ago, that CCP has done nothing to such an obvious problem makes me think you guys don't play your own game.
Hacking loot has been so terrible for so long it blows my mind. Why even adjust the mechanics if no one is going to run the sites. Personally I see data sites building up in 0.0 with no one touching them for days. I have run dozens of the best sites and most of the time I receive less then 5 million total loot. So now I just skip them like everyone else. same in low, the only reason we ever get in those, is when we spot someone probing, with the hop he will go in so we can kill him.
the few time we had someone going in those, the scanned it then bugged out without even running it EVERY SINGLE TIME because it' wotrhless.
see, when odyssey hit, i, like many many others, siad that CCP just killed explo.
look wherre we are now, the old explorer like myself stopped doing it, canceled accounts accordingly, and the "new" explorer CCP bragged about just doesn't run them anymore, cause they are worthless, and there are less and less ppl even bothering warping in data / relics..... congrats CCP, you killed what used to be a great part of the game ..... |
|
CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
1469
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 10:55:00 -
[284] - Quote
seth Hendar wrote:easy, you first nerfed it with odyssey due to silly game + loot bukkake. and since it was easier, you reduced loot. now you make it easier again, so you will "adjust loot accordingly" => we all know this means "nerf loot table". what happen when you nerf loot on an already bad loot acivity => you burry it. if you fail to see this, you are either delusional, or worse, alter a game mechanic you do not understand / play with at all so yeah, final nail on exploration's coffin Daishi Kurita wrote:Speaking on loot. PLEASE start having Data and Ship Interfaces be destroyed. Ship interfaces for example used to be the main reason to run hacking sites; after years of them dropping and not a single one being destroyed they are literally worthless. I don't even know why they are in the loot table anymore.
This suggestion was made by many players YEARS ago, that CCP has done nothing to such an obvious problem makes me think you guys don't play your own game.
Hacking loot has been so terrible for so long it blows my mind. Why even adjust the mechanics if no one is going to run the sites. Personally I see data sites building up in 0.0 with no one touching them for days. I have run dozens of the best sites and most of the time I receive less then 5 million total loot. So now I just skip them like everyone else. same in low, the only reason we ever get in those, is when we spot someone probing, with the hop he will go in so we can kill him. the few time we had someone going in those, the scanned it then bugged out without even running it EVERY SINGLE TIME because it' wotrhless. see, when odyssey hit, i, like many many others, siad that CCP just killed explo. look wherre we are now, the old explorer like myself stopped doing it, canceled accounts accordingly, and the "new" explorer CCP bragged about just doesn't run them anymore, cause they are worthless, and there are less and less ppl even bothering warping in data / relics..... congrats CCP, you killed what used to be a great part of the game .....
I have already said I will not be reducing the loot :) if anything we are looking to increase the quality of the loot.
CCP Affinity | Follow me on Twitter Content Designer for EVE Online |
|
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1208
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 11:03:00 -
[285] - Quote
Quote:I have already said I will not be reducing the loot :) if anything we are looking to increase the quality of the loot.
would you personally prefer giving out more of the good stuff ? or would you rather introduce new stuff ? completely unrelated note: i would love to be able to buy standings with NPC corps in some way or another by trading in items ... We are recruiting german-speaking PVP players, contact me :)
Banner was used for this Post |
Jeremiah Saken
State Protectorate Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 11:54:00 -
[286] - Quote
Quote:I have already said I will not be reducing the loot :) if anything we are looking to increase the quality of the loot.
Can you consider making probing more difficult? |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
40
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 11:58:00 -
[287] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:I would be very interested to know how you have come to this conclusion :)
By removing the loot spew, it makes the sites easier and faster to do, ergo: they are nerfed :)
CCP Affinity wrote: I have already said I will not be reducing the loot :) if anything we are looking to increase the quality of the loot.
So they will be easier to do, and have better quality loot.
I guess that is good for the people who where incapable of doing them, since now not only can they do them easily, but they also get better loot for even less effort! :)
Sorry btw, I won't bribe you with beer as some others have :) |
Seven Koskanaiken
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
885
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 12:11:00 -
[288] - Quote
AIUI the intention of the spew was to encourage group play, expect it did the opposite for economic reasons I will not explain again since I already did it hundred times already.
You can still encourage team hacking with the mini game, maybe pooling virus strength from two ships, so two people with noob skills can win the red core games by working together on it, something like that.
Also, data sites need a buff, SERIOUSLY. |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
467
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 13:45:00 -
[289] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:
I have already said I will not be reducing the loot :) if anything we are looking to increase the quality of the loot.
yes, and what will happen?
you make site easier, and reduce the loot table (via value or item number) => direct nerf
or, as you claim,
you make site easier, and increase the loot (via number or quality) => ppl will run them like rabbits on steroids for a month thus crashing the market price => indirect nerf
tldr; it's a nerf
the problem is making the useless sites easier, not artificially making them temporary more valuable.
bring them back to where they were, they were balanced, giving good value loot to ppl who actually spent time training and put the effort in skill and tactics / fitting to be able to run them (speaking low / null here, high was always crap anyway), this was balanced.
with odyssey, you basically told those ppl who invested hard time to GTFO, wich they did, and broke the exploration.
you were warned, and yet, here we are, months later, and you are iterating in the wrong direction, expecting to fix a broken thing you broke in the first place, by breaking it even more.....
"i have a dream, were CCP devs actually play the game".... will probably reamains a dream tho
thanks for letting us know you miss eve understanding 101 |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
2664
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 14:21:00 -
[290] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:.....
With all due respect, removing the loot spew IS a nerf to Exploration :) Looking forward to see the details. I would be very interested to know how you have come to this conclusion :) I think it comes from two places. First in this specific case making it easier to get the loot will increase the amount on the market and depress prices even more. Yes, you have already covered that, but that brings up the second point. CCP once said they wanted exploration to pay better than other forms of PvE. Presumably because it involves more interaction with other players. What that means is in high sec I should be able to make more isk per hour exploring than what I would get hopping into a blinged out 'snake and ripping through L4 missions. CCP said this, then changed exploration to be one of the more worthless activities. Your credibility is very low here. When you do give details, please listen to the feedback. In general, things go bad as soon as someone in CCP writes "with all due respect, we think it will not work out that way". http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
|
seth Hendar
I love you miners
467
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 14:27:00 -
[291] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote: I think it comes from two places. First in this specific case making it easier to get the loot will increase the amount on the market and depress prices even more. Yes, you have already covered that, but that brings up the second point. CCP once said they wanted exploration to pay better than other forms of PvE. Presumably because it involves more interaction with other players. What that means is in high sec I should be able to make more isk per hour exploring than what I would get hopping into a blinged out 'snake and ripping through L4 missions. CCP said this, then changed exploration to be one of the more worthless activities. Your credibility is very low here. When you do give details, please listen to the feedback. In general, things go bad as soon as someone in CCP writes "with all due respect, we think it will not work out that way".
every single time i saw this written in a CCP dev's post, it was followed or following one or more sentences showing how little of the topic said dev understood, and the ingame iteration proved how right the players were........ please CCP Affinity, prove me wrong...... |
|
CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
1470
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 14:33:00 -
[292] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:.....
With all due respect, removing the loot spew IS a nerf to Exploration :) Looking forward to see the details. I would be very interested to know how you have come to this conclusion :) I think it comes from two places. First in this specific case making it easier to get the loot will increase the amount on the market and depress prices even more. Yes, you have already covered that, but that brings up the second point. CCP once said they wanted exploration to pay better than other forms of PvE. Presumably because it involves more interaction with other players. What that means is in high sec I should be able to make more isk per hour exploring than what I would get hopping into a blinged out 'snake and ripping through L4 missions. CCP said this, then changed exploration to be one of the more worthless activities. Your credibility is very low here. When you do give details, please listen to the feedback. In general, things go bad as soon as someone in CCP writes "with all due respect, we think it will not work out that way".
I have personally never said any of those things :) and I wouldn't be posting in this thread if I didn't care about the feedback and was not listening to it. I am taking a look at the exploration scattering and loot tables that were done by another developer.
I agree that exploration needs an overhaul and some serious dev love (as does quite a few PvE systems), but I do not control priorities, that rests with senior producers. I have a few days down time between projects right now, so I am going to look into doing what I can to reduce pain points.
However, threads like this are super useful when they remain clear and concise. This thread is about loot spew and how that impacts the exploration experience... it starts to become less useful when it is used as an avenue to vent frustrations at all past CCP decisions.
CCP Affinity | Follow me on Twitter Content Designer for EVE Online |
|
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2210
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 14:41:00 -
[293] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote: I have already said I will not be reducing the loot :) if anything we are looking to increase the quality of the loot.
I respectfully ask you to reconsider this decision. The tables were increased when Odyssey deployed to promote team work and the potential loss of loot for a solo explorer. The player base was able to adapt fairly well and data and relic sites remained a solo activity for the most part and players were able to get the loot they were after still. The increased loot tables and the massive increase of data and relic hackers caused the value of the loot to pummit. This has also caused a secondary effect of damaging the combat site loot values, the a lot of players got tired of the loot spew and the low rewards for data/relic sites, due to the market crash, and moved on to combat sites causing a similar effect. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Cypher Decypher
Flowery Twats
30
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 14:41:00 -
[294] - Quote
There seems to be a lot of conjecture and general whingeing going on here, while CCP Affinity is doing her best to give us clues without (understandably) making commitments.
Here are the facts/clues she's been kind enough to give us:
Loot spewing is going to be removed ("hopefully for the Summer") Loot tables will be "balanced accordingly". Loot "in general" will be looked at. "The quality of the loot will not drop, this is not a nerf to exploration" "I have already said I will not be reducing the loot :) if anything we are looking to increase the quality of the loot. "
So be grateful something is going to be done, and start making positive suggestions about HOW it can be done in a balanced fashion. Because between initial probe launch to loot-pickup, there are numerous processes which can be tweaked in order not to re-re-rebreak exploration.
I, for one, am all for slightly increasing the difficulty of probing. Just as an opener..
Cheers Affinity :)
|
Turelus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
911
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 14:42:00 -
[295] - Quote
CCP Affinity will the entire of exploration be getting a once over or just the scatter cans mechanic?
I still feel that Ghost Sites would make more sense requiring probes as these are meant to be "super secret hidden sites" yet everyone in a system knows they're there. We're also at the point where everyone is just tanking them and there is no danger left in them any more, if CCP wants to keep the "danger" in these sites they might want to improve the damage done or have it random damage types thus being untankable.
Grav sites could really do with going back to bring scanned sites (at least from my experience) because it removed the "prospecting" part of finding them as well as removing another layer of defence for NullSec miners. Anomalies Grav Sites + Interceptors = terrible for NullSec mining. It might be worth looking at the distribution of these sites as well to try and keep ore values in check.
On topic however the removal of scatter cans is something I can fully support, while I like that CCP want to encourage players to work together attempting to add mechanics which force it really feels against the nature of EVE. Lieutenant Turelus Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
I post on my main... shocking I know! |
|
CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
1470
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 14:44:00 -
[296] - Quote
Turelus wrote:CCP Affinity will the entire of exploration be getting a once over or just the scatter cans mechanic?
I still feel that Ghost Sites would make more sense requiring probes as these are meant to be "super secret hidden sites" yet everyone in a system knows they're there. We're also at the point where everyone is just tanking them and there is no danger left in them any more, if CCP wants to keep the "danger" in these sites they might want to improve the damage done or have it random damage types thus being untankable.
Grav sites could really do with going back to bring scanned sites (at least from my experience) because it removed the "prospecting" part of finding them as well as removing another layer of defence for NullSec miners. Anomalies Grav Sites + Interceptors = terrible for NullSec mining. It might be worth looking at the distribution of these sites as well to try and keep ore values in check.
On topic however the removal of scatter cans is something I can fully support, while I like that CCP want to encourage players to work together attempting to add mechanics which force it really feels against the nature of EVE.
I am just working on removing the scatter containers and re balancing the loot tables. As I said in my previous thread, I do not control feature priority :) I just have some time between tasks (a few days) and I am using it for some quality of life improvements for the exploration sites. CCP Affinity | Follow me on Twitter Content Designer for EVE Online |
|
Jeremiah Saken
State Protectorate Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 15:51:00 -
[297] - Quote
Quote:I am just working on removing the scatter containers and re balancing the loot tables. As I said in my previous post I do not control feature priority :) I just have some time between tasks (a few days) and I am using it for some quality of life improvements for the exploration sites.
Its never ending job without changing exploration as whole. Level of explorers will increse after you remove scatter containers so loot will be worthless again. Wish you good luck, you'll need it. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
546
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 15:55:00 -
[298] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Valencia Mariana wrote:Maximus Andendare wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. Please say you're not trolling us with this post. The hacking game was a great addition; the loot spew was terrible. It's awesome to hear that it's being taken care of. Your joking right? The mini-game was the worst thing to happen to PvE since launch. I have nightmares and serious RSI in my right arm and a nervous twitch... Please remove the minigame too! I like the minigame. Especially since I got really good at it.
This. Seriously, there is a benefit to training those level 5s and getting T2 modules, rigs, and covops 5. I still ocassionally miss nulsec containers. I missed a losec container once.
Once.
Loot spew was annoying because despite being successful at the mini-game, I could still get trash because I picked the wrong spew can out of the 20 or so that get ejected.
Free Ripley Weaver! |
Valencia Mariana
The Red Circle Inc.
17
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 15:56:00 -
[299] - Quote
hydraSlav wrote:I love the mini-game, it's awesome (loot-spew not).
Anyone that hates on the mini-games is either a botter, AFKer, or a nutcase who "plays" EvE for work, rather than fun
Out of interest do you live in a wormhole? When you scan out a static you may have 10-30 cans to hack. Server banks for example we dont even bother doing all but one of the cans.
I think there are two points of view here: Wormholers and casual k-space explorers.
Valencia Mariana The Red Circle Inc. |
DSpite Culhach
287
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 15:56:00 -
[300] - Quote
For the record, I don't mind the loot dispersion per se. It's the level of fidgeting that drives me insane. It's in 3d, objects get in the way when you ship spin, you need a rather precise mouse pointing to click things, and there does not seem to be - that I can see - any instant feedback you clicked something until the beam lashes out.
If the system had a whole bunch of visuals and overlays like in combat - which would be overkill for this, but you get the point - that people could shift-click-queue, I don't think it would have been such an issue, but try to imagine if the loot dispersion mechanic was the combat one - single lock until killed, have to click on a moving target to actually target etc etc, that's what feels like a handful to manage.
I always had a similar issue with running a salvaging destroyer or a Noctis. I swear it takes more clicking to salvage everything then it did killing it, considering I often put more then one salvager to work per wreck AFTER a tractor beam click, but gave guns or drones a single click instruction to kill it.
I don't mind some level of micromanagement, but there's a breaking point past which I end up on the news for running around at night barking at strangers.
~ |
|
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
324
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 16:04:00 -
[301] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:I am just working on removing the scatter containers and re balancing the loot tables. As I said in my previous post I do not control feature priority :) I just have some time between tasks (a few days) and I am using it for some quality of life improvements for the exploration sites. Understandable. What is the best way to go about getting the attention of the senior producers to sway them in their decision making. Not for me mind you, because with all the bile and hate that I've spewed at CCP over the years it is unlikely that I could influence them. But what would be your advice for the more level-headed and diplomatic players? |
Ghat Ashour
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 16:09:00 -
[302] - Quote
Removing scatter containers is a welcome improvement. Thanks!
Does re-balancing loot tables include looking at the value of data/relic sites between regions? It seems that sites in one region are vastly more valuable than in other regions, at least with regard to relic sites and salvage value.
Good luck! |
Sheena Tzash
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
42
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 16:17:00 -
[303] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote: I am just working on removing the scatter containers and re balancing the loot tables. As I said in my previous post I do not control feature priority :) I just have some time between tasks (a few days) and I am using it for some quality of life improvements for the exploration sites.
As someone who used to explore before and found the new loot spew mechanics a really kick in the nuts simply because of the negative possibility space issue it created for players who felt like they had worked hard, exposed themselves into dangerous space, did the hack and end up with nothing but trash at the end of it.
So just having the spew mechanic removed will be a huge improvement for me personally but also to other explorers and people who want to blow up people like me ;)
As for the loot tables I think its a tough one because you can't gauge the system based on its sec status as a 0.4 system close to high sec can be more dangerous than a 0.1 system because of the increased number of players wanting to kill high sec bears giving low sec a shot.
I think a successful hack needs to yield something good and of value, no trash on any hack as again you're just screwing people up and it makes you wonder why someone would store trash in an encrypted container anyways?
Some other ideas:
1) Multiple levels of hack
The more hacks you do the better the loot you get. For the best loot you need to hack multiple times and increase your exposure time.
2) Different rewards
Don't always drop plain old loot - maybe include co ords to another site in another system with the reward in that (after another hack maybe) like a treasure hunt.
The loot could also be something intel that could be sold to an NPC for a fixed value (like a mission reward) so that you can control the base line value of exploration.
The intel could also be used for yourself to open a mission that you can do yourself (which overall is worth more) or sell on the open market.
|
Batelle
HOMELE55
1883
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 16:49:00 -
[304] - Quote
Turelus wrote: I still feel that Ghost Sites would make more sense requiring probes as these are meant to be "super secret hidden sites" yet everyone in a system knows they're there. We're also at the point where everyone is just tanking them and there is no danger left in them any more, if CCP wants to keep the "danger" in these sites they might want to improve the damage done or have it random damage types thus being untankable.
The danger is from them not requiring scanning. The fact that they are visible to all, and running them itself is a quick in-and-out activity is the core of their flavor. You're asking for something completely different rather than any small adjustment.
Regarding data and relic sites:
- the idea that they would promote collaborative gameplay was either a complete red-herring or entirely misguided, the fact that we used cargo scanners to identify and get the best loot while staying solo is a good thing. I would like cargo scanner functionality should be preserved, even if it won't be useful any longer to identify which scatter containers to scoop. Giving the explorer the decision of what to hack and what to skip is a meaningful one. Not everyone will make the same decision in every situation.
- in relation to the above, sites that have half the cans opened and the rest ignored need to once again despawn properly. Since odyssey they have not been doing so. If a red comes in local, you're faced with a decision to keep hacking at risk to yourself, vs cloaking up and losing the whole site. That's an interesting decision, despite the latter result being frustrating.
- relic sites are fine and plenty lucrative. Especially because the value of the whole site is often concentrated in a few cans. Rig BPCs are very good if you get the right kind, as you have a material advantage over the invention market.
- data sites are low value for a few reasons. Datacores are low-value. Skillbooks are low value. Interface bpcs are low value. Nearly all module bpcs (not faction pos mods) are very low value. The reliable source of income here is decryptors, which tend to be evenly distributed amongst the cans. This means hacking all the cans for at most a few mil per can, and very often less than 1m per can because of crappy augmentation decryptors. Maybe these can be buffed so that more inventors choose them.
- Keep in mind that removing loot spew will make people more willing to hack cans with a perceived low value.
- I see the argument for making interfaces consumable, but its a non-trivial change to make. Reducing the drop rate of these useless bpcs by about 95% would at least save us having to look at them (a source of rage and frustration).
- Perhaps an isk faucet should be added by adding npc buy orders for trash items. This would provide a baseline isk value that is insulated against oversupply of other loot. It also means a choice of cargospace vs isk. It doesn't need to be significant. Maybe the mods can be changed to something meriting npc buy orders for lore reasons. Ghost site values are propped up through npc buy orders for CRTs.
- As most datacores are obtained through means other than exploration, buffing the number of datacores in exploration sites will increase the value of the sites without significantly depressing prices. It will also further reduce R&D income and make them less attractive in the FW LP store. These are all positive outcomes. This would also make cargospace a more important consideration for explo.
- Many people claim Odyssey ruined exploration because it made it too easy and reduced loot value. Do not listen to these people. They would choose terrible gameplay every time if it meant 350m c-type MSBs were a reality again. CCP devs should focus on good gameplay first and balancing rewards second.
"CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Vartan Sarkisian
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
137
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 17:57:00 -
[305] - Quote
I found the minigame and the spew very frustrating, I think I tried it about 20 odd times back when it first came in game then have not done it since. I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die. |
Newh
Corax. The Big Dirty
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 18:09:00 -
[306] - Quote
This mechanic honestly feels more like a punishment. perhaps we can get use this mechanic just for that, if you succeed in the hack you get your loot normally but if you fail it will spew out and give you a 2nd chance at getting the loot.
While I do understand that the mechanic was a way to allow for group exploration I think it ultimately failed, I mean have you ever heard of anyone looking for an exploration group?
Personally the following is a list of reasons that I do not like the mechanic.
#1: it is not fun (I do not enjoy it) #2: It breaks exploration on slow connections (the containers still show up but when you try to loot them you sometimes get the error that the object does not exist) #3: If you are zoomed in enough the smoke upon release lags the system (even while using a stupidly good computer).
|
Albert Spear
meadhan oidhche cinneach Moist.
40
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 18:30:00 -
[307] - Quote
CCP Affinity -
First let me say thank you for taking your down time to work on this. I and I think many people appreciate it.
Second getting rid of the loot spew is wonderful, us old folks with slow reflexes really appreciate it.
Third fixing the loot tables is awesome. I would hope that the variety of what shows up (from really bad booby prizes - like carbon to really neat BPC's) can have much more variety. I would love it if I ran a site 20 times without seeing the same set of loot.
Even more I would love it if 9 out of 10 loot cans are full of garbage, but the 10th is worth massive isk in comparison.
Setting the loot tables to give a really, really stellar payout from time to time makes running the sites more fun and competitive. You don't know what the loot will end up being and you then have to hunt for the gem.
To me this is the essence of exploration. In most cases you come up with nothing special, but once in a while you make a fortune, which matches the real world of exploration (e.g. oil, gold, etc. here on Earth).
For most people exploration in Low Sec is actually the most dangerous, since so much of Nulsec is owned and managed by the big blocks. So if it were up to me - I would make the payouts in LowSec worth the most - but that is just my opinion.
Right now my mates would rather run L4 missions or Mine, than do exploration. I hope the table fix will change that. |
Black Canary Jnr
Red Galaxy Disband.
86
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 22:04:00 -
[308] - Quote
I think that the removal of loot spew is good for the gas sites. Killing rats, then hacking, then missing out the loot is frustrating, especially when relic sites are pooping out a reliable 40-50 mil per a pop in null and the gas sites can be so iffy on what drops. I once did a site and there was 1 standard BPC, everything else was trash.
And i think that CCP need to nerf null sec exploration if they are removing the spew mechanics or actually introduce a challenge. It's stupidly easy isk and the isk/time ratio is broken good. Pre-odessy exploration was a pain in the arse, you had to kill rats, then 'hack', i did not experience null and low sec exploration pre odessy because the bar for entry was having a combat fit scanning ship and i was scared shitless of low and null sec. Post-odessy everyone explores and there is no difference between Null/Low/High sec exploration in terms of risk. The only risk, if you are flying a covert ops/ cloaky T1 scan frig (lets face if, that's all you need ATM), is if someone is waiting in a site ( very very very rare), or you do not click d-scan for like 2 minutes, and that's if someone is in local. Introduce a barrier to this stupid exploration so that everyone and their dog can't come to null, relatively risk free, and make off with 100's of millions of isk. Make null sec mean something in terms of danger and don't rely entirely on players to be that danger, because that never works. |
Circumstantial Evidence
106
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 00:00:00 -
[309] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:CCP Affinity wrote: I have already said I will not be reducing the loot :) if anything we are looking to increase the quality of the loot.
I respectfully ask you to reconsider this decision. The tables were increased when Odyssey deployed to promote team work and the potential loss of loot for a solo explorer. The player base was able to adapt fairly well and data and relic sites remained a solo activity for the most part and players were able to get the loot they were after still. The increased loot tables and the massive increase of data and relic hackers caused the value of the loot to pummit. This has also caused a secondary effect of damaging the combat site loot values, the a lot of players got tired of the loot spew and the low rewards for data/relic sites, due to the market crash, and moved on to combat sites causing a similar effect. Agree with this. Odyssey is a small victim of its own success. I say "small victim" b/c players are adjusting to the new market values, they are stabilizing, many more players are able to try out T2 rigs and inventors can afford to use decryptors on every invention job.
Like many said when the feature was being tested, I don't like loot spew because it seems like a punishment for successful completion of the puzzle.
Loot amount per site was designed with a solo player in mind. Loot amount was increased to compensate for spew cans that solo players would miss, and so many who can bring an Alt with them are scooping just about all of it, that account holder takes home more loot items per site than pre-Odyssey.
If scatter cans are replaced by a single can, loot amount per site has to be decreased back to pre-Odyssey levels. If loot amount per site is not changed, players who don't have alts to take to these sites will thank you, for "leveling the playing field" and market values will go down a bit more. |
Floyd Perdoo
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:32:00 -
[310] - Quote
Did you ever consider removing the scanability of the cans? It seems to me that it was meant to be a mechanic for the enterprising people to work the sites, but given that people already noticed you can do this on the test server and made 'guides' how to pick your loot on day one after release ... it became standard procedure. it turned into a requirement, noone did those sites as a group activity after a couple weeks.
Good luck balancing the quality and quantity of loot. With how easy sites are now in kspace (you could argue that doing anything but relics anywhere but in nullsec is stupid) and how many people do them now (yay i can take a frigate to go 'explore'), i am having a hard time seeing how you could do it. I think it would be best not to look on the loot from this side, but rather look at the consuming side. Data sites are, unless you find that tower bpc, quite worthless now, because the demand for the stuff that drops is mostly not there.
Make having good probe skills mean something again. Put sites all over the system, they don't need to be hugging around celestials. Remove sigs in scan window without having an actual means to probe. I am sure there's more that could be done. |
|
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
53
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 08:51:00 -
[311] - Quote
Angel H-sec Relics are utterly crap. |
Edward Olmops
Sirius Fleet
137
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 11:53:00 -
[312] - Quote
A quick idea:
Loot spew was meant to make Exploration more interesting and fun. Obviously it does not have this effect. I propose an alternate idea to make exploration more challenging and fun.
1. You hide multiple data nodes on the hacking board. Each data node represents one of the items from the loot table. Maybe these nodes are very weak or have no defense at all to keep balance. 2. You introduce a master security node. A player now has to kill the master node to get to the loot (which will be in a regular can). But you only get that part of the loot which you "collected" during the hacking attempt. Maybe the collected things would shortly flash up like they do now when taking one of the loot spew cans.
This idea would make partial success possible: maybe I get to hack the master node and finish the board, but I did not uncover ALL of the loot - some remains hidden behind some defensive node I could not kill.
Skill levels would make more of a difference. Maybe a medium skill is sufficient to win the hacking game e.g. in LowSec, but only a high skill level (+implants + ship bonus) ensures I get to clean every board completely and always get all loot.
Also if I find the master node and COULD kill it, it would be cool if I had to make a decision: I have not yet found all the loot that I spotted by cargo scanning before, so do I go on, maybe risking to uncover a support node that reinforces the master node and I get nothing at all OR do I "take the money and run". (or maybe the suspicious neuts in local have more time to get me if I stay those few extra seconds)
|
Edward Olmops
Sirius Fleet
137
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 12:05:00 -
[313] - Quote
Oh, and I want a booby-trap node! The GHOST sites are really much fun, because there IS a risk running them.
How about this: a booby-trap node is a well-armed node (like 20/30, 20/50, 20/70 for green, yellow, red boards) and if you stop hacking while it is revealed, there will be an explosion and/or a pirate response team as in ghost sites.
If you kill the node while you are still in the hacking game, nothing happens. Only if you finish the board/try to warp away/get out of Analyzer range, then ... .BOOM!
So if you are in the hacking game and you know there is something juicy in the can from cargo scan and there is already one of these nodes revealed... will you kill it to prevent damage to your ship?( losing precious virus health) Or will you ignore it and go on searching for the loot? Maybe you have tanked yor ship so it will survive one explosion. But there is a chance you suddenly find ANOTHER booby-trap. |
Jeremiah Saken
State Protectorate Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 13:25:00 -
[314] - Quote
Quote:A player now has to kill the master node to get to the loot (which will be in a regular can). But you only get that part of the loot which you "collected" during the hacking attempt. Maybe the collected things would shortly flash up like they do now when taking one of the loot spew cans.
So space pac-man? Do you want to trivialize it even more?
Quote:Oh, and I want a booby-trap node! The GHOST sites are really much fun, because there IS a risk running them.
Space roullete? How ghost sites is even an exploration? Its anomaly that uses hacking device. Weird hybrid. |
Edward Olmops
Sirius Fleet
137
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 13:44:00 -
[315] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Quote:A player now has to kill the master node to get to the loot (which will be in a regular can). But you only get that part of the loot which you "collected" during the hacking attempt. Maybe the collected things would shortly flash up like they do now when taking one of the loot spew cans. So space pac-man? Do you want to trivialize it even more? Quote:Oh, and I want a booby-trap node! The GHOST sites are really much fun, because there IS a risk running them.
Space roullete? How ghost sites is even an exploration? Its anomaly that uses hacking device. Weird hybrid.
Exploration is about mystery and discoveries through skill AND luck.
What is it other than roulette if a system contains a certain anomaly or not? Or that a certain anomaly contains a can with a jackpot item or not?
I really love exploration for the excitement about a treasure. If I scan lets say HiSec sites in Gallente space and I have probed a Serpentis Phi Outpost - it's always a race: is there already someone in the site? Will I clear it before someone else takes notice or will I be disturbed? And then: what is the loot? Crap or jackpot? In each step (except for the loot roll which is random) I can encance my chances through skill, but never so much there is no risk left.
For current relic/data sites it is similar. If we take out the loot spew (because of annoying gameplay), there will be one potentially exciting step less (will I pick the right cans? - clever choice and clicking skill improves odds, but you can still be unlucky). My proposal aims on getting something else in that does the same but is more fun to play. Therefore the additional element of complexity, risk and decision-making. |
Jeremiah Saken
State Protectorate Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 14:05:00 -
[316] - Quote
Quote:If I scan lets say HiSec sites in Gallente space and I have probed a Serpentis Phi Outpost - it's always a race: is there already someone in the site? Will I clear it before someone else takes notice or will I be disturbed? And then: what is the loot? Crap or jackpot?
There you go. Probing. There's nothing to explore with anoms. Its already scanned, it even had name on it, so i exactly know what to expect when i see it. Just warp to it. It has to do with exploration as much as nestor without cloak.
Quote:Therefore the additional element of complexity, risk and decision-making.
I want that too, but i not the way you post it. |
DSpite Culhach
291
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 16:10:00 -
[317] - Quote
If the sites are meant to provide more player vs player content, would it not make sense to try and keep as there as long as possible?
If the mechanic only covers enough things to do for say 5 minutes, that is all we will spend there - scan best can, hack, scoop, leave - if the reward amount was based on willingness to spend time and go through a larger pool of objects and even have the olde RNG get some rolls - we would hang around longer.
Although what bothers me is that technically low sec sites should pay better, shouldn't they? Hacking sites in sov space in dead ends does not seems as dangerous as lowsec. I have no idea what im doing though ~ |
Jeremiah Saken
State Protectorate Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 16:46:00 -
[318] - Quote
Quote:If the sites are meant to provide more player vs player content, would it not make sense to try and keep as there as long as possible?
Remove cargo scanning opportunity. You will have to hack all cans at site without knowing whats inside. Game of luck as Edward Olmops wrote. |
Lido Seahawk
Norr Amalgamated Industries
41
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 23:13:00 -
[319] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.
\o/ |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
469
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 10:18:00 -
[320] - Quote
Batelle wrote:
Many people claim Odyssey ruined exploration because it made it too easy and reduced loot value. Do not listen to these people. They would choose terrible gameplay every time if it meant 350m c-type MSBs were a reality again. CCP devs should focus on good gameplay first and balancing rewards second.
do not listen to ppl who get litterally shitted upon when odyssey hit, removing a big part of their gameplay, screwing over months of training, with no compensation, and who ended up for most of them unsubbing accounts thus reducing CCP's income.....
that is a very nice suggestion.
eve as always been about specialisation, you had to be trained, with the correct ships, and pulling out good skill to actually run the valuable sites, throught probing, moving in said area with a ship able to run them.
since odyssey, a 1 week old is now able to do what required month of training to do: this is dumbing down the game, and screwing up the ppl who invested time, SP, thus hard earned money in the game.
i did had 2 account apart from my main, used to run lowsec explo in different area of the game, each of those with 2-3 month worth of SP just for this purpose.
the day odyssey hit, they were made useless, no compensation, i feel robbed of 6month of subs just because CCP decided so....
on the terrible gameplay, imao it the loot bukkake + the minigame which are terrible gameplay, the serve no purpose, they do have no place in eve, and regarding the sensor overlay, it's just a pain in the rear that it autoscan even when turned OFF.
ffs, when i move goods using my freighter or do a trip to a hub, i don't give a **** about wich sigs are around, hence why i turned the thing OFF, yet it still pop up every single time, like a kind reminder "hey, look at the awesome crap there is around"
bad design is bad
if it is so great gameplay, let's add the minigame to mining, and let's watch what happen |
|
Turelus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
917
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 12:18:00 -
[321] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:Turelus wrote:CCP Affinity will the entire of exploration be getting a once over or just the scatter cans mechanic?
I still feel that Ghost Sites would make more sense requiring probes as these are meant to be "super secret hidden sites" yet everyone in a system knows they're there. We're also at the point where everyone is just tanking them and there is no danger left in them any more, if CCP wants to keep the "danger" in these sites they might want to improve the damage done or have it random damage types thus being untankable.
Grav sites could really do with going back to bring scanned sites (at least from my experience) because it removed the "prospecting" part of finding them as well as removing another layer of defence for NullSec miners. Anomalies Grav Sites + Interceptors = terrible for NullSec mining. It might be worth looking at the distribution of these sites as well to try and keep ore values in check.
On topic however the removal of scatter cans is something I can fully support, while I like that CCP want to encourage players to work together attempting to add mechanics which force it really feels against the nature of EVE. I am just working on removing the scatter containers and re balancing the loot tables. As I said in my previous post I do not control feature priority :) I just have some time between tasks (a few days) and I am using it for some quality of life improvements for the exploration sites. So who do we write to so you get promoted to head PVE fixing person of awesome? Because normally your posts reflect that you'd be pretty damn good in that role. Lieutenant Turelus Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
I post on my main... shocking I know! |
Laiannah Sahireen
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
43
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 10:53:00 -
[322] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:I am just working on removing the scatter containers and re balancing the loot tables. As I said in my previous post I do not control feature priority :) I just have some time between tasks (a few days) and I am using it for some quality of life improvements for the exploration sites.
I'd still really appreciate some kind of indication/confirmation that you will look at the loot tables for COSMOS sites as part of this tweak. There are items that don't even seem to be available in-game anymore but that are required materials for blueprints. One example is the Yan Jung Tachyon Stetoscope item that is required to be able to make the storyline large remote armor repairer. As somebody who enjoys building and collecting these items, this is extremely frustrating.
Not asking for any kind of overhaul to COSMOS sites in general (although lord knows they need one), but just for the correct loot to be seeded in the sites.
Many thanks. |
D'Kelle
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
71
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 16:14:00 -
[323] - Quote
Noxisia Arkana wrote:Treborr MintingtonJr wrote:Looking back, I have found nothing wrong with loot spew, cargo scan first then that will tell which containers to get, meerkat simples. The question hasn't been whether it's doable or simple. Just that the mechanic is exceedingly annoying after completing a mini game already.
Bah! toughen up, this is EVE not "World of fluffy pink Bunnies" handing stuff to you on a plate. |
Ikonia
Royal Amarr Expeditions
65
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 17:41:00 -
[324] - Quote
simply play with 2 toons, place them on opposite sides of the can in a 750 to 1300 m distance and then just click with after burner on and speed set to 100 m/s. u wont miss more than 1 or 2 max. |
Jeremiah Saken
State Protectorate Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 09:45:00 -
[325] - Quote
Quote:simply play with 2 toons
Really? What kind of game design it is if i have to play (and pay) on two accounts? Bring a friend they say, buy more accounts say another. |
Soltys
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 12:00:00 -
[326] - Quote
Quote:I am just working on removing the scatter containers and re balancing the loot tables. As I said in my previous post I do not control feature priority :) I just have some time between tasks (a few days) and I am using it for some quality of life improvements for the exploration sites.
Wonder how will that rebalancing work in practice. No scatter means easier, and that usually means crappier loot or less sites.
On a related note, perhaps it would be better to not hand information "hey there is signature in this system" on a silver platter.
TBH when I peek over outdated wikis how exploration worked in the past, it kind of makes more sense (active probes limited to skill, signatures are not automatically listed - among other things). |
Machagon
Plate of Beans Incorporated Solar Destiny
31
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 15:28:00 -
[327] - Quote
I'm glad to see loot spew going, but I do think that it had some good effects that it would be a shame to throw out with the bathwater:
1. I love the introduction of cargo scanners into the exploration profession 2. I liked the aspect of having to be picky about which loot you go for
Taking the above together with my opinion (and it seems to be near consensus) that the hacking minigame is pretty great and should be iterated on, I propose adding more cores to each game and having each core hold a chunk of the loot. There could be four or five cores in each game, with names like "System Core (data)" and "System Core (parts)" The game then ends when you either die or defeat all cores. No replays.
Then, when you're done and open the can, the contents will be determined by which cores you manage to defeat. It would maintain the current advantages of the loot spew mechanic, while also adding more strategy and nail-biting to the hacking minigame. |
Udonor
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
52
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 06:37:00 -
[328] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Quote:I am just working on removing the scatter containers and re balancing the loot tables. As I said in my previous post I do not control feature priority :) I just have some time between tasks (a few days) and I am using it for some quality of life improvements for the exploration sites. Its never ending job without changing exploration as whole. Level of explorers will increse after you remove scatter containers so loot will be worthless again. Wish you good luck, you'll need it.
Small gangs are the heart of EVE gaming. Only pirates should be able to be really successful playing EVE solo beyond the newest noob activities. And even pirates need a few buddies to take down large groups of noobs and miners without survivors.
So any mechanic that ensures serious ISK making requires a team to exploit is vital. In fact I favor occasionally including better rare loot in exploration scatter cans (BPCs ? or new component for T3 guns?) -- but take off all the loot type labels from cans so that solos or undersized teams cannot focus on collecting specific cans. Also I think the velocity of scatter cans needs to be higher and maybe more evasive so as to make gathering cans harder. Also consider making can gathering a job for special tractors mounted on special unarmed frigates (similar to Noctis).
Basically pirates need more high value unarmed target fleets to shoot. Something with small loot volume so small pirate gangs can get rich quick like in real life. IF you are too scared to pump the drug trade give us looted artifact trade to prey upon!!! Too much competition in current trade piracy.
|
Jeremiah Saken
State Protectorate Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 16:08:00 -
[329] - Quote
Quote:Small gangs are the heart of EVE gaming.
So try exploration in small gang. Sometimes its one sig per 15 jumps in low. Very lucrative for small gang i assume. Some professions are best solo.
Quote:Also I think the velocity of scatter cans needs to be higher and maybe more evasive so as to make gathering cans harder.
They removing it remember?
Quote:Basically pirates need more high value unarmed target fleets to shoot.
Why? Covops are too hard to kill?
Quote:1. I love the introduction of cargo scanners into the exploration profession 2. I liked the aspect of having to be picky about which loot you go for
Depends how will loot tables looks like. I would prefer not to know what is inside can, and from pvp potential its better to have explorer longer on site. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
258
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 16:47:00 -
[330] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Quote:1. I love the introduction of cargo scanners into the exploration profession 2. I liked the aspect of having to be picky about which loot you go for
Depends how will loot tables looks like. I would prefer not to know what is inside can, and from pvp potential its better to have explorer longer on site.
Potentially rather than cut the loot it could stay the same but you unlock random pieces with each pass at hacking. The cargo scanner shows you everything in the can so you know what you have unlocked and what's left giving the player the dilemma of eithe cutting and running with what they have or staying longer to try to get the juicy BPC...
Either that or the loot is placed behind the grid nodes like the hacking bonus tools and firewall.system core nodes. Unlocking the core clears all nodes so you can pick and choose the loot, or you cut and run when you are happy with what you have from roaming the grid.
Either way the cargo scanner still has a use and potentially a player stays longer hacking because they are chasing the BPC in the hacking grid that they know is there somewhere...and cracking the system core is still the best option as it speeds up loot gathering. |
|
Jeremiah Saken
State Protectorate Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 17:34:00 -
[331] - Quote
Quote: Potentially rather than cut the loot it could stay the same but you unlock random pieces with each pass at hacking.
So 7 items in can and i have to hack it 7 times? I don't like hacking that much.
Quote:Either that or the loot is placed behind the grid nodes like the hacking bonus tools and firewall.system core nodes. Unlocking the core clears all nodes so you can pick and choose the loot, or you cut and run when you are happy with what you have from roaming the grid.
Pac-man in space? I propose more than one system core with different loot behind it. You can only choose one, rest will be gone.
|
The Nightfish
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 21:45:00 -
[332] - Quote
So with "Loot Spew" eliminated, there will be little cause to fit a Cargo Scanner then, correct?
Unless one wants to skip entire containers, it's be more efficient to simply hack them all, and dump any loot one doesn't want to keep/haul.
And for those of us who were good at it, scans the cans first, and were successful at loot spew catching all the good loot, this will be a pretty clear cut nerf to income, as surely the amount of loot will be cut back overall with loot spew removed. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
263
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 01:44:00 -
[333] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Quote: Potentially rather than cut the loot it could stay the same but you unlock random pieces with each pass at hacking.
So 7 items in can and i have to hack it 7 times? I don't like hacking that much.
I was thnking more like hacking twice, first pass unlocks the standard stuff, second pass unlocks BPC's and the like |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
4952
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 06:48:00 -
[334] - Quote
Alistair Cononach wrote:Something everyone seems to be missing:
If you weren't a mouth breathing retread, loot spew was perhaps annoying, but irrelevant. Good players who knew what they were doing got 100% of the "good stuff" every time.
Now, with loot spew going away, CCP is surely to nerf overall loot.
So, good players will make much less from exploration, so that bads and mouth breathers can make the same as us.
Wake up kids, this is a NERF to exploration income, pure and simple.
Well, there's always the option of having various loot tied to certain nodes, so in order to get the best value out of the hacking game you have to uncover the nodes with the valuable items. Then when you beat the system core, the can unlocks and your items are intact. If you don't unlock the items, they don't survive and are replaced with metal scraps in the can.
Then CCP could introduce "scanner" utilities, which will highlight nodes of particular value. So now the game actually gets interesting: race through as quickly as possible to pick up the valuable nodes, hit the button scoop the loot and get out, all before someone else arrives to blow you up.
And there should also be a time limit, based on the cycle duration of your hacker. Then add hackers with longer cycle times as NPC BPC drops, LP store items, etc, and add scripts to the hacking module to extend the duration, vs boost the coherence/virus strength.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
4952
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 06:55:00 -
[335] - Quote
Quote:Either that or the loot is placed behind the grid nodes like the hacking bonus tools and firewall.system core nodes. Unlocking the core clears all nodes so you can pick and choose the loot, or you cut and run when you are happy with what you have from roaming the grid.
Unlocking the core to open up all the nodes reduces the risk of losing a particularly valuable item. Say you survey the can and you see that it contains a Dread Guristas Control Tower BPC, a decryptor and a bunch of hydrogen batteries. Here's one option:
- Race to clear the system core
- Look for the BPC and click it
- Done
here's another option
- Race to clear first node. It's a hydrogen battery
- Race to clear second node. It's a decryptor
- Race to clear third node. Score! It's the tower BPC!
- Ignore the fourth node, you know it's only going to be a hydrogen battery
- Race to clear the system core
- Open the can, scoop the BPC (and maybe the decryptor if it's valuable)
- Done
Then add a countdown timer. Now we have a game that is fun, with no need to adjust loot tables!
PS: the time limit also means that you can't lock out an intruder by simply refusing to finish the game. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Lady Naween
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
491
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 10:30:00 -
[336] - Quote
no more loot spew?
*wipes tears of joy*
thank you!!! |
Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
74
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 20:15:00 -
[337] - Quote
Thank God they are removing this stupid mechanic. I used to do exploration until this change, but after the expansion, I did two sites, and haven't done it since. |
StonerPhReaK
Ashfell Celestial Equilibrium POD-SQUAD
135
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 16:32:00 -
[338] - Quote
Does this mean the implant so containers last in space longer will be changed? Or removed entirely? It didnt cost much, but it still has me wondering. What do? Signature Removal in Progress, Estimated time of completion? Neva |
Uskaanax
InterSun Freelance Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
3
|
Posted - 2014.03.15 03:08:00 -
[339] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. As a WH dweller, I think this is great news. The loot spew is just like someone said before: you've done the minigame, why is there a second that includes a penalty? My corpmate and I often run these and it's not easy to coordinate which container we'll get and not, and often we go for the same data container. That means we're both tractoring in the same object while neither of us can break away and go after a different one to let the other grab it.
The minigame-hacking is a click fest. There's barely any skill involved, and the strategy is laughable. It's chutes and ladders in space. How about you just make it an nmap emulator? Oh, right - 30,000 years in the future and the dscan button isn't automatic yet, so why should hacking be more than chutes and ladders?
I'm looking forward to the removal. The old method was fine enough. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1133
|
Posted - 2014.03.15 08:28:00 -
[340] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:Maximus Andendare wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. Please say you're not trolling us with this post. The hacking game was a great addition; the loot spew was terrible. It's awesome to hear that it's being taken care of. not trolling :)
So is hacking and the loot spill both going, I thought that hacking was here to stay but not the loot spill mechanic?
Can you clarify please, many thanks. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
|
Jennifer Maxwell
Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate
122
|
Posted - 2014.03.15 10:19:00 -
[341] - Quote
To be honest, while I hated it and railed against it at first, I've come to not mind it in the slightest. Sure it gets annoying when I misclick in space and start flying in a direction, causing me to get out of range of some of the cans. And sure it gets annoying when stuff starts dissapearing when I was trying to tractor it in.
But in the end, it really just doesn't bother me anymore. I get all the worthwhile loot anyways. It's a non-issue now. All these people complaining about it need to harden up and learn to adapt.
The hacking game though, I still love. I'd very much like seeing that expanded on, and maybe even used for other stuff. |
Solkara Starlock
Circle of Mystery
56
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 14:32:00 -
[342] - Quote
Thank you, CCP!
It was a bad mechanic that didn't make sense. It also did not accomplish its purpose (to make exploration a group activity).
If you're going to review the loot tables, remove the obvious crap. It's a waste of code and bandwidth. I wouldn't getting less loot, but perhaps you could work on the usefulness of decryptors so prices will rise again.
|
350125GO
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 18:01:00 -
[343] - Quote
Back to exploration after a four year Eve hiatus. Loot spew is terrible. Glad it's going. As a whole the mechanic is much better than it used to be. (I used to work the complex in Deltole regularly).
Here's what I propose. Hack a can get the shiny, but increase risk.
How?
Option 1: Make hacking multi-tiered. Each level of hack you get through gets you access to better loot. Thus increasing reason to train hacking to Lvl V and to fit a ship better.
Option 2: Make sites harder to scan down, then make Concorde ignore them. Therefore if you find a relic site in a 1.0 you still can get freely jumped inside. That would encourage you to have a pvp partner with you or to take the same precautions you would if you were in null.
|
sHanQ Myteia
Occupational Hazzard Gentlemen's Agreement
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 23:26:00 -
[344] - Quote
removing the loot-spew is a terrible idea.
its easy enough for those highsec bears to ninja the relics/data in null... im one of those who is actively chasing them with success, even tho i think the whole overhaul of the good old magnet. site was bad.
Eve is supposed to the hard, that keeps kids/dumb people away from the game.
with removing the spew-loot you make it even easier than it actually is already... if you still do it, at LEAST nerf the loot of the whole sites by a lot please.
making the minigame harder could work a well.
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1168
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 23:33:00 -
[345] - Quote
sHanQ Myteia wrote:removing the loot-spew is a terrible idea.
its easy enough for those highsec bears to ninja the relics/data in null... im one of those who is actively chasing them with success, even tho i think the whole overhaul of the good old magnet. site was bad.
Eve is supposed to the hard, that keeps kids/dumb people away from the game.
with removing the spew-loot you make it even easier than it actually is already... if you still do it, at LEAST nerf the loot of the whole sites by a lot please.
making the minigame harder could work a well.
Nerf the loot, remove the hacking game and drop the loot spew, plus put the rats back in the complexes. Job done. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Markku Laaksonen
EVE University Ivy League
394
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 23:56:00 -
[346] - Quote
For a good while to come, when people ***** about CCP not caring about player input, I'll point them to this thread.
This is mostly in the DUST community. I'll just explain that loot spew is terrible, CCP listened, and fairly quickly changed it.
Good job guys. DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/
EVE Buddy Invite - https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=047203f1-4124-42a1-b36f-39ca8ae5d6e2&action=buddy
|
sHanQ Myteia
Occupational Hazzard Gentlemen's Agreement
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 04:25:00 -
[347] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:sHanQ Myteia wrote:removing the loot-spew is a terrible idea.
its easy enough for those highsec bears to ninja the relics/data in null... im one of those who is actively chasing them with success, even tho i think the whole overhaul of the good old magnet. site was bad.
Eve is supposed to the hard, that keeps kids/dumb people away from the game.
with removing the spew-loot you make it even easier than it actually is already... if you still do it, at LEAST nerf the loot of the whole sites by a lot please.
making the minigame harder could work a well.
Nerf the loot, remove the hacking game and drop the loot spew, plus put the rats back in the complexes. Job done.
that'd be too good to be true :)
|
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
328
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 07:43:00 -
[348] - Quote
Markku Laaksonen wrote:For a good while to come, when people ***** about CCP not caring about player input, I'll point them to this thread.
This is mostly in the DUST community. I'll just explain that loot spew is terrible, CCP listened, and fairly quickly changed it.
Good job guys. .... Your concepts of "listened" and "fairly quickly" differ dramatically from mine (and I'm guessing most other people). They were told repeatedly that loot bukkake was a terrible terrible idea when it hit the Test Server. They rolled it out anyway. Most people would refer to that as "NOT listening". And it will be a year later that they finally remove it, if that even does occur. Most folks don't consider waiting a year to be "fairly quick". How about you loan me your car, and I'll return it "fairly quickly"? Also keep in mind that it's not CCP that's making this decision (as far as we have been told). It is a Dev who is making the changes in their free time and submitting them for inclusion in the next expansion. This isn't even something that the decision-makers in CCP consider a priority. So... yeah.
|
Solkara Starlock
Circle of Mystery
57
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 09:22:00 -
[349] - Quote
I have to agree with the last post.
When the new exploration hit the the test server, reactions the the loot spew was almost universally negative. People begged to remove it. People were angry. I cannot imagine it was so hard to remove it that it took a year. It should never had made the expansion. Why do you have a test server when you don't listen to the feedback!
When Odyssey, the expansion marketed to boost exploration, came out, it effectively killed exploration as a miniprofession.
Now remove the instantly visible presence of cosmic signatures (leave the anomalies, if you must) upon entering a system and it will be back. Exploration should be about actively looking for stuff out there in space. I doubt they should adapt the loot tables if the implement this. Make pilots work for their ISK! |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1168
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 09:24:00 -
[350] - Quote
The greatest irony of course is that once the loot spew has gone the oddysey expansion will be more or less undone. Oddysey with it's dumbing down and crap survey scanner has to be the worst expansion of recent years. Putting scanning in easy mode really harmed the Explorer profession, it's no longer an elite thing to do and the profession hasn't recovered yet. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1170
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 09:52:00 -
[351] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:.....
With all due respect, removing the loot spew IS a nerf to Exploration :) Looking forward to see the details. I would be very interested to know how you have come to this conclusion :) I think it comes from two places. First in this specific case making it easier to get the loot will increase the amount on the market and depress prices even more. Yes, you have already covered that, but that brings up the second point. CCP once said they wanted exploration to pay better than other forms of PvE. Presumably because it involves more interaction with other players. What that means is in high sec I should be able to make more isk per hour exploring than what I would get hopping into a blinged out 'snake and ripping through L4 missions. CCP said this, then changed exploration to be one of the more worthless activities. Your credibility is very low here. When you do give details, please listen to the feedback. In general, things go bad as soon as someone in CCP writes "with all due respect, we think it will not work out that way". I have personally never said any of those things :) and I wouldn't be posting in this thread if I didn't care about the feedback and was not listening to it. I am taking a look at the exploration scattering and loot tables that were done by another developer. I agree that exploration needs an overhaul and some serious dev love (as does quite a few PvE systems), but I do not control priorities, that rests with senior producers. I have a few days down time between projects right now, so I am going to look into doing what I can to reduce pain points. However, threads like this are super useful when they remain clear and concise. This thread is about loot spew and how that impacts the exploration experience... it starts to become less useful when it is used as an avenue to vent frustrations at all past CCP decisions.
thanks affinity for taking time out to do this, this is what I love about CCP devs that you don't get in other games, the dedication and the will to fix things even in their spare time. I for one am glad that you are helping to repair the damage done to the exploration microprofession. I am really appreciative as I am sure almost everyone else is. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1170
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 10:09:00 -
[352] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Quote:If I scan lets say HiSec sites in Gallente space and I have probed a Serpentis Phi Outpost - it's always a race: is there already someone in the site? Will I clear it before someone else takes notice or will I be disturbed? And then: what is the loot? Crap or jackpot? There you go. Probing. There's nothing to explore with anoms. Its already scanned, it even had name on it, so i exactly know what to expect when i see it. Just warp to it. It has to do with exploration as much as nestor without cloak. Quote:Therefore the additional element of complexity, risk and decision-making. I want that too, but i not the way you post it.
Agreed, if you don't use probes you are not actually exploring. I'd like to see gravimetric sites not be 100% but a partial signature like 80% so you know that they are there but still have to do some work to find them.
I am really sick of seeing mining barges sucking up low sec minerals that spawn at 100% in high sec, it does nothing to drive conflict. These sites are just bonus asteroid belts for miners. Really tough rats in these sites might be the way to go though. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Markku Laaksonen
EVE University Ivy League
395
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 11:32:00 -
[353] - Quote
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:can't possibly be pleased DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/
EVE Buddy Invite - https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=047203f1-4124-42a1-b36f-39ca8ae5d6e2&action=buddy
|
Henk Brombir
Elemental Souls Souls of Destruction
30
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 15:49:00 -
[354] - Quote
Are we at least keeping the mini game? It makes exploration a bit more dynamic and less monotonous :] |
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
464
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 16:40:00 -
[355] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:The greatest irony of course is that once the loot spew has gone the oddysey expansion will be more or less undone. Oddysey with it's dumbing down and crap survey scanner has to be the worst expansion of recent years. Putting scanning in easy mode really harmed the Explorer profession, it's no longer an elite thing to do and the profession hasn't recovered yet.
Until we get harder mode scanning and exploration it won't recover |
Clint Brigante
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
14
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 17:34:00 -
[356] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Thanks whiners.
Probably loot will be nerfed now, so that you microless fat fingers can finally handle a simple mini-game.
Maybe you should go back to tetris and have some beloved micro there? Exploring in eve was awesome cause it was relaxing and all the work and effort required was the scanning itself and trying to stay alive below highsec. I liked the harder versions of scanning mechanic. With that patch that ovehauled exploration they made it so much worse... |
Alistair Cononach
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
183
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 19:59:00 -
[357] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Nerf the loot, remove the hacking game and drop the loot spew, plus put the rats back in the complexes. Job done.
I.e. Eliminate the "Exploration" Profession completely, and replace it with another form of PvE Ratting/Plexing.
Um, no.
If you want to shoot Red crosses for loot, go to belts, missions or plexes. No shortage of ways to kill dumb rats for loot.
Exploration offered/offers a non-combat profession based not on shooting, but on something else, and it should stay as should the minigame.
If anything, add in a new type of exploration, that mixes both the current minigame with enemy ships defending it.
But do not remove the exploration game. |
Anela Cistine
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
190
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 21:55:00 -
[358] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:sHanQ Myteia wrote:removing the loot-spew is a terrible idea.
its easy enough for those highsec bears to ninja the relics/data in null... im one of those who is actively chasing them with success, even tho i think the whole overhaul of the good old magnet. site was bad.
Eve is supposed to the hard, that keeps kids/dumb people away from the game.
with removing the spew-loot you make it even easier than it actually is already... if you still do it, at LEAST nerf the loot of the whole sites by a lot please.
making the minigame harder could work a well.
Nerf the loot, remove the hacking game and drop the loot spew, plus put the rats back in the complexes. Job done.
Rats don't belong in archeology sites. At all. Here is this ancient wreck, untouched for years, and oops here come a bunch of rats who just happened to find it at the same moment you did? Dumb.
Not every activity needs rats. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1179
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 22:53:00 -
[359] - Quote
As long as the rats make lore sense I have no problem with them. I explored successfully when the rats used to be there they served to make exploration rewards more valuable, but I appreciate that my version of exploration is not for everyone.
Old style explorers were elite professionals who scanned, used stealth and force when needed and were a breed apart. Exploration today is a poor shadow of its former self. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Anela Cistine
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
191
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 23:25:00 -
[360] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:As long as the rats make lore sense I have no problem with them. I explored successfully when the rats used to be there they served to make exploration rewards more valuable, but I appreciate that my version of exploration is not for everyone.
Old style explorers were elite professionals who scanned, used stealth and force when needed and were a breed apart. Exploration today is a poor shadow of its former self.
I do not approve of elite professions, sorry. And I'm saying that with a character that has over 62 millions skillpoints.
Every profession should be accessible to new players within a few weeks. New players can't run level 4 missions, but they can run level 1 missions. They can't kill nulsec rats but they can kill highsec rats. They can't produce supercaps but they can produce small T1 ships and ammo. They can't mine in a hulk but they can mine in a venture.
Right now I think the balance is pretty good. The highly skilled player will be making far more isk/hour, but the newbie explorer is perfectly viable.
- A newbie can get into T1 probing frigate with mostly T1 modules and 3-4 in relevant skills within a few weeks. They may not be able to pinpoint some sites, and they may fail the hacking mini game more often than not, but they can get out there and give it a good try. If they enjoy it, there is a fairly narrow focus of skills they'll need to work on to get better.
- Meanwhile an ~elite~ player with mostly 4s and 5s in relevant skills can fly a T2 or T3 ship with T2 modules will find and run sites much faster. The ~elite~ player will have a covops cloak making them much safer running sites in lowsec or nulsec.
- The superduperelite OMG guys can fit combat capable scanning ships and scan down sites in wormholes. There are rats, there are valuable prizes, and they can enjoy being one of the very few that can manage wormhole exploration.
|
|
Jeremiah Saken
State Protectorate Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 09:31:00 -
[361] - Quote
Quote:I do not approve of elite professions, sorry. And I'm saying that with a character that has over 62 millions skillpoints.
Every profession should be accessible to new players within a few weeks. New players can't run level 4 missions, but they can run level 1 missions. They can't kill nulsec rats but they can kill highsec rats. They can't produce supercaps but they can produce small T1 ships and ammo. They can't mine in a hulk but they can mine in a venture.
I agree that all professions should be avaiable from day 1. You've made good point with security missions but...to run higher level of missions you must invest SP. Its not that i will just do them more effectively, because i can't do lvl 4 with a frigate. Yet I can do low sites or even null without good explo skills and in cheap ship. Difficulty is not connected to SP of my clone. Where's the balance?
I think the idea to open exploration for the masses was good thing, but i feel it was like "its new and its easy, try it now!". |
Seven Koskanaiken
The Shadow Plague Fidelas Constans
1030
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 10:54:00 -
[362] - Quote
sHanQ Myteia wrote:removing the loot-spew is a terrible idea.
its easy enough for those highsec bears to ninja the relics/data in null... im one of those who is actively chasing them with success, even tho i think the whole overhaul of the good old magnet. site was bad.
Eve is supposed to the hard, that keeps kids/dumb people away from the game.
with removing the spew-loot you make it even easier than it actually is already... if you still do it, at LEAST nerf the loot of the whole sites by a lot please.
making the minigame harder could work a well.
The loot spew was nothing to do with making the task hard. It was intended to encourage duo or group explorers. It has failed to do this, both in theory and in practice, so it needs to be revised to something different if CCP still believe in making group hacking happen.
The rats is an interesting case, and AFAIK they removed to solve the reshipping problem where you couldn't utilise all bonuses unless you reshipped twice for one site (frigate for scanning, pve ship for combat, back into frigate for codebreaking the can). The only solutions were to wait for a tengu (long train) or to use some totally stupid fit on a arbitrator/drake. However two things came after this which solved that which was 1) the sisters combat/explo ships and 2) the mobile depot which allows refits in space. These could/should have been brought out in odyssey, and now that they have, I think datas in kspace could have rats back in them, which makes sense in lore and because datas are now so crap people don't even bother warping to stuff like sparking transmitters or survey sites. |
Anela Cistine
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
192
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 11:07:00 -
[363] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Quote:I do not approve of elite professions, sorry. And I'm saying that with a character that has over 62 millions skillpoints.
Every profession should be accessible to new players within a few weeks. New players can't run level 4 missions, but they can run level 1 missions. They can't kill nulsec rats but they can kill highsec rats. They can't produce supercaps but they can produce small T1 ships and ammo. They can't mine in a hulk but they can mine in a venture.
I agree that all professions should be avaiable from day 1. You've made good point with security missions but...to run higher level of missions you must invest SP. Its not that i will just do them more effectively, because i can't do lvl 4 with a frigate. Yet I can do low sites or even null without good explo skills and in cheap ship. Difficulty is not connected to SP of my clone. Where's the balance? I think the idea to open exploration for the masses was good thing, but i feel it was like "its new and its easy, try it now!".
You can do it in a cheap ship with poor skills, even in nulsec, yes. But the newbie won't make nearly as much isk/hour as a skilled character (and a skilled player) in a covops with T2 modules. It will take the newbie much longer to scan down the sites in the first place, and some of them they simply won't be able to get to 100%. Of the sites they find, they will fail the hacking minigame often, both from player mistakes and from simply not having enough virus coherence and virus strength to beat it.
Newbie with hacking 3 in a magnate with a t1 data analyzer: Coherence=70, Strength=30 Pr0 with hacking 5 in a covops with a t2 data analyzer: Coherence=110, Strength=40 (I didn't include rigs and implants, because they help both the newbie and pro equally, and the pro is more likely to know they exist.)
That strength difference may not seem like much, but it is the difference between taking down a Firewall in 2 turns instead of 3 turns. Getting hacking and archaeology to V to get the T2 modules made a huge difference for me.
The covops cloak is also a great help for survivability in nulsec space, so the pro will be safer while they do all this than the newbie.
It isn't like hacking in nulsec is the top of the profession. If you have combat and scanning skills you can run sites in wormholes. Or you can get a Stratios, quickly scan down relic and hacking sites, and just kill any explorers that are running around in unarmed frigates. |
Jeremiah Saken
State Protectorate Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 13:58:00 -
[364] - Quote
Quote: You can do it in a cheap ship with poor skills, even in nulsec, yes. But the newbie won't make nearly as much isk/hour as a skilled character (and a skilled player) in a covops with T2 modules.
Point is its possible to explo with low skills and its not possible to do L4. Its like in chain of diffculty: HS>LS>NS>WH. Combat DED sites are good example. They are marked with 1-10 numbers which indicates difficulty levels. I can enter high DED sites but i'm 100% sure i can't make it. Exploration is more or less flat. You need some average skills do to it. Let's say lvl3 and then you just improving how fast you'll do them - maybe its suppose to be like that.
Hacking skills are in good place i think. Its always good to have t2 modules. Scanning need some look at. Maybe more probes the better skill you have (like in old system).
|
Anela Cistine
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
192
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 00:55:00 -
[365] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Quote: You can do it in a cheap ship with poor skills, even in nulsec, yes. But the newbie won't make nearly as much isk/hour as a skilled character (and a skilled player) in a covops with T2 modules.
Point is its possible to explo with low skills and its not possible to do L4. Its like in chain of diffculty: HS>LS>NS>WH. Combat DED sites are good example. They are marked with 1-10 numbers which indicates difficulty levels. I can enter high DED sites but i'm 100% sure i can't make it. Exploration is more or less flat. You need some average skills do to it. Let's say lvl3 and then you just improving how fast you'll do them - maybe its suppose to be like that. Hacking skills are in good place i think. Its always good to have t2 modules. Scanning need some look at. Maybe more probes the better skill you have (like in old system).
The goal is to sell loot and make isk, right? The goal of most PVE activities is to make isk. And, in general, a highly skilled character is able to make more ISK/hour. In exploration a highly skilled character will make much more isk/hour than a newbie. The system works.
I like that exploration doesn't hold your hand and point out "you must be this tall to ride" like many other activities. There are many sites a newbie won't be able to scan down to 100%, but they'll never know unless they try. There absolutely are many cans a newbie won't be able to open based on how many unavoidable barriers are between the start and end point, but it doesn't tell you which ones. Even if you learn which cans are usually the most difficult, occasionally you'll win the lottery and find the system core in just a few clicks. The mystery is half the fun.
|
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
333
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 05:29:00 -
[366] - Quote
Anela Cistine wrote:I like that exploration doesn't hold your hand and point out "you must be this tall to ride" like many other activities. Wait wut?... That's EXACTLY what exploration is now. It let's you know "oh hey! there's a sig in this system!". And it's even so nice as to point out the exact area that the sig is located that way you don't have to work hard. You can't get much more idiot-proof than that. Yeah I know that's not the particular aspect that you were referring to, but come on, that is the MAIN part of exploration. The loot bukkake and mini-game are just loot collection. |
Jeremiah Saken
State Protectorate Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 12:39:00 -
[367] - Quote
Quote:Wait wut?... That's EXACTLY what exploration is now. It let's you know "oh hey! there's a sig in this system!". And it's even so nice as to point out the exact area that the sig is located that way you don't have to work hard. You can't get much more idiot-proof than that.
Yep half the job already done for us. I don't mind anoms showed on system scanner but signatures should be hide from players. Basically if they merge old way to scan signatures with odyssey probes managing it would be supa fun.
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1182
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 21:14:00 -
[368] - Quote
The biggest problem with the survey scanner is that there's no longer any sense or feeling of discovery when you enter system as the survey scanner does it all for you without so much as a click of a button. Kills exploration stone dead. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Anela Cistine
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
192
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 23:02:00 -
[369] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:The biggest problem with the survey scanner is that there's no longer any sense or feeling of discovery when you enter system as the survey scanner does it all for you without so much as a click of a button. Kills exploration stone dead.
Hmm. If it kills exploration stone dead, there must be fewer people doing it now than were doing it a year ago, right? I wonder if that is the case. |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
335
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 23:14:00 -
[370] - Quote
Anela Cistine wrote:Hmm. If it kills exploration stone dead, there must be fewer people doing it now than were doing it a year ago, right? I wonder if that is the case. Semantics. Exploring in the sense of "looking for the unknown" is effectively dead, since we know what it is out there before we even start looking. The activity itself however is more popular than it ever was, for the exact reason that it is so easy now. You already knew that of course, you're just being... a Goon.
|
|
Anela Cistine
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
192
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 23:38:00 -
[371] - Quote
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:Semantics. Exploring in the sense of "looking for the unknown" is effectively dead, since we know what it is out there before we even start looking. The activity itself however is more popular than it ever was, for the exact reason that it is so easy now. You already knew that of course, you're just being... a Goon.
Heh, yeah, you caught me. Hyperbole makes me silly.
Honestly having exploration sites show up the moment you enter a system is a bit silly. I wouldn't object at all to having to drop probes in every system to see what is there. The one preset probe formation actually seems to exist for finding "is there anything in this system" and doesn't make much sense the way it works now. Does anyone even use that formation for anything now?
The only "elite" thing I really object to putting rats back in exploration sites. One of the complaints about loot spew is that it is a third mini-game and 3 mini games to get your loot is too many. Rats are also just another mini game standing between the explorer and their loot. When I tried exploration as a wee newbie years ago I didn't fit a combat capable ship, I used a fast ship, kited the rats out 200k away from the cans, then warped back to hack the cans, repeat as necessary. It was slow and boring and not a good mini game at all, much worse than loot spew.
|
Jeremiah Saken
State Protectorate Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 09:43:00 -
[372] - Quote
Quote:The only "elite" thing I really object to putting rats back in exploration sites.
Removing rats for data and relic sites was a good thing. We can build fits for exploration only and focus on exploration. For those who want some fights there are combat sigs. It can be even hacking involved in combat sigs (hackable acceleration gates between rooms). |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2282
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 12:09:00 -
[373] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Quote:The only "elite" thing I really object to putting rats back in exploration sites. Removing rats for data and relic sites was a good thing. We can build fits for exploration only and focus on exploration. For those who want some fights there are combat sigs. It can be even hacking involved in combat sigs (hackable acceleration gates between rooms). Exploration encompasses more than just data and relic sites.
From a game play standpoint removing rats only ensured most explorers were ill prepared if a hostile ship entered the site. From a lore perspective, removing rats from data sites makes no sense as they are still "active" sites with techinology that one should want to protect. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Anela Cistine
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
192
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 18:37:00 -
[374] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Jeremiah Saken wrote:Quote:The only "elite" thing I really object to putting rats back in exploration sites. Removing rats for data and relic sites was a good thing. We can build fits for exploration only and focus on exploration. For those who want some fights there are combat sigs. It can be even hacking involved in combat sigs (hackable acceleration gates between rooms). Exploration encompasses more than just data and relic sites. From a game play standpoint removing rats only ensured most explorers were ill prepared if a hostile ship entered the site. From a lore perspective, removing rats from data sites makes no sense as they are still "active" sites with techinology that one should want to protect.
People choose how to fit their own ships. Having a choice to fly a combat capable ships, or a cloaky sneaky ship, or a relatively cheap disposable ship is good sandboxing. Everyone flying identical "optimal" ships is boring.
Data sites can go either way. In real life most telephone junction boxes, cell towers, or small data centers do not have armed guards. They are valuable, but protected only by locks. In the lore there are not an infinite number of rats, they can't be everywhere. Data sites may simply be automated systems that do not require armed guards. |
dexington
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1136
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 19:21:00 -
[375] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:The biggest problem with the survey scanner is that there's no longer any sense or feeling of discovery when you enter system as the survey scanner does it all for you without so much as a click of a button. Kills exploration stone dead.
Most of the changes to exploration was okay, being able to detect signatures and anomalies without having to drop probes is fine. People was doing more or less the same with the old system and DSP, the only difference was they had a really good idea of what sites the signatures contained with a 1 probe scan system scan.
The old system gave players who a lot of skillpoints invested in scanning skills some unique advantages, removing DSP and adding the system scanner reduced the sp advantage of older players. That combined with removing T3 cruisers from 4/10 sites, i think was two of the better changes. I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Jeremiah Saken
State Protectorate Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 21:53:00 -
[376] - Quote
Quote:From a game play standpoint removing rats only ensured most explorers were ill prepared if a hostile ship entered the site.
Please tell me how to fit my explo buzzard for both combat and exploration, because with full explo setup there only one high slot left for launcher. I don't think my future explo tengu will be good enough to fight with explorers hunters, maybe with rapids. From what i've learned so far if i get caught i'm dead. From PvP perspective its cat and mice game. |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
343
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 22:13:00 -
[377] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Please tell me how to fit my explo buzzard for both combat and exploration... Simple answer is you don't. When rats used to be in Hack/Relic sites (or Radar/Mag as they used to be known), nobody used CovOps for exploration. It was all about the Tengu back then... in the hoary old days of Exploration... when men were Men, and we would fight to take what we wanted... *strokes beard and takes a puff from his pipe*
Really though, bringing back rats on warp-in would be a fairly terrible idea.
Here's an idea... Make the sites use an "alarm system" where once it gets to a certain level, then NPC rats start showing up. Every time a ship warps into the site the alarm goes up a bit, every click in the mini-game the alarm increases (so doing it efficiently matters - game would still need some work though), every time an offensive module triggers (web, scram weapons, etc) the alarm goes up ALOT, etc. Just an idea. *shrug*
|
Jeremiah Saken
State Protectorate Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 23:33:00 -
[378] - Quote
Quote: Here's an idea... Make the sites use an "alarm system" where once it gets to a certain level, then NPC rats start showing up. Every time a ship warps into the site the alarm goes up a bit, every click in the mini-game the alarm increases (so doing it efficiently matters - game would still need some work though), every time an offensive module triggers (web, scram weapons, etc) the alarm goes up ALOT, etc. Just an idea. *shrug*
...or "alarm subsystem" on hacking grid. You must find and hack or rats will spawn. Data sites only. Bobby trap on Archeo sites. Disarm "trap subsystem" on hacking grid or after sucessfull hacking (or not) can will explode with emp bomb and shut down ship for some time (like 1 min). |
Anela Cistine
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
212
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 23:40:00 -
[379] - Quote
That would be okay if they removed the ability to scan containers before you hack them. Otherwise it would just lead to more jerks cherry picking the best cans and leaving the junk for the next guy. Jerks! |
dexington
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1140
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 00:16:00 -
[380] - Quote
Anela Cistine wrote:That would be okay if they removed the ability to scan containers before you hack them. Otherwise it would just lead to more jerks cherry picking the best cans and leaving the junk for the next guy. Jerks!
Don't really matter the sites have a despawn timer, that starts when you try to hack the containers. Forcing people to hack all the container, and blindly grab loot, would lower the income and most likely just kill that branch of exploration. I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
|
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
472
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 16:36:00 -
[381] - Quote
dexington wrote:Anela Cistine wrote:That would be okay if they removed the ability to scan containers before you hack them. Otherwise it would just lead to more jerks cherry picking the best cans and leaving the junk for the next guy. Jerks! Don't really matter the sites have a despawn timer, that starts when you try to hack the containers. Forcing people to hack all the container, and blindly grab loot, would lower the income and most likely just kill that branch of exploration.
Not really as finishing off the site quicker brings it up for respawn quicker |
Shisha Diver
The Scope Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 10:58:00 -
[382] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:i can only imagine the overlap between people who are dedicated enough to learn EVE and simple-minded enough to enjoy the simplistic loot spew mechanic to be very small, thus the feature is most likely highly annoying for a majority of the population.
This |
SeneschaI
Ordo Ministorum Violent Society
13
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:58:00 -
[383] - Quote
Limarr wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. Any change to keep the spew mechanic optional for players who like it? Some scripts you have to add to your hacking module can handle this. 1.) Focused Hacking Script: direct access to loot, lower reward 2.) Scattering Hacking Script: spews containers, higher reward 3.) no script: 50/50 The mechanic itself is good, but annoying to do this every time, so let the player decide. I really like that suggestion, although i suspect CCP will simply copy the way Ghost sites work (and nerf the loot) |
Jeremiah Saken
State Protectorate Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:33:00 -
[384] - Quote
Quote: although i suspect CCP will simply copy the way Ghost sites work (and nerf the loot)
Copy what exactly? Why nerf the the loot? |
Maekchu
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
25
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 03:21:00 -
[385] - Quote
Been using exploration of data and relic sites as means of income for some time now. So I'm getting fairly used to the spew mechanic.
However, I will be glad to see it gone. Mostly because, it does not bring anything to the table. It was meant for people to do exploration in groups. However, it didn't turn out to promote that kind of gameplay at all.
I hope CCP will make more use of the great hacking game instead. As I quickly skimmed through the thread, I saw ideas like booby traps, new nodes etc.
As it stands now, there is no risk involved in exploration (data/relic sites). I use a no tank T2 covops to run nullsec sites. With the removal of NPCs from the sites, there is no need for me to fit anything combat related, since it would decrease my efficiency of running the sites.
I am not a big fan of having no risk activities in EVE. Now obviously, people could just wait in ambush to kill my covops in the site, however, if you play it safe, you will never lose your ship in the sites. And waiting in sites for other people becomes really boring, meaning the risk of other players killing you, decreases as people figure out it is a long wait for a single kill (been there, done that). There is more risk of losing it to the random smartbomb on a gate, and chances of that happening is really slim.
I like the idea of having booby trap nodes, which would force me to fit some kind of tank, as a safety buffer. But I think there are many ways to do this, and I suppose it's only up for CCP to choose some interesting ways to lose our ships.
I am glad that CCP is taking exploration up for another review, and I am excited to see what summer will bring.
Summer is coming people :D |
Winthorp
1420
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 11:06:00 -
[386] - Quote
SeneschaI wrote:Limarr wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. Any change to keep the spew mechanic optional for players who like it? Some scripts you have to add to your hacking module can handle this. 1.) Focused Hacking Script: direct access to loot, lower reward 2.) Scattering Hacking Script: spews containers, higher reward 3.) no script: 50/50 The mechanic itself is good, but annoying to do this every time, so let the player decide. I really like that suggestion, although i suspect CCP will simply copy the way Ghost sites work (and nerf the loot)
Do people really think this won't be a nerf to loot though? When they introduced loot spew it became a buff with more loot coming into the pool. (Insert witty signature here) |
Jeremiah Saken
State Protectorate Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 11:34:00 -
[387] - Quote
Quote:Do people really think this won't be a nerf to loot though? When they introduced loot spew it became a buff with more loot coming into the pool.
More loot in the pool? It was designed for groups, but as group activity not 2x more loot for them. Data sites are crap compare to relics. Loot tables must be looked anyway. "I am a leaf on the wind - watch how I soar" "Cry baby cry make, your mother sigh" "Dear Buddha, please bring me a pony and a plastic rocket..." |
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
974
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 12:01:00 -
[388] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Quote:Do people really think this won't be a nerf to loot though? When they introduced loot spew it became a buff with more loot coming into the pool. More loot in the pool? It was designed for groups, but as group activity not 2x more loot for them. Data sites are crap compare to relics. Loot tables must be looked anyway.
Not to harp on CCP but; Poorly timed as well, with the nerf to loot's retrievable ore they will see a drop in salvaged parts (Who wants to grab salvage without loot, the two compliment each other for ISK earning potential) this combined with a nerf to the drops from exploration sites and we are probably going to see some big spikes and dips in the salvage market.
Things that keep me up at night;-á Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state,-áOnce you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1209
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 12:58:00 -
[389] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Quote:Do people really think this won't be a nerf to loot though? When they introduced loot spew it became a buff with more loot coming into the pool. More loot in the pool? It was designed for groups, but as group activity not 2x more loot for them. Data sites are crap compare to relics. Loot tables must be looked anyway.
This is where CCP Seagul got it wrong, explorers have never been group players. The early CCP devs understood this as evidenced by this post in 2006. Only tough complexes were meant for group play.
https://www.eveonline.com/expansions/revelations/
Quote: Space exploration is now a viable profession requiring extensive use of the new System Scanning feature in the seamless view. With this tool, you can discover hundreds of hidden locations, which could potentially lead to escalating encounters and higher rewards. Exploration ties into Archeology, Invention, Hacking, Salvaging, and Mining. While the act of discovery is likely to be a solo activity, capitalizing on what you found will require good connections through contracts or the market. Escalating encounters will also require a group effort, as the sites you discover will be heavily defended.
Edit: By removing rats from site's CCP has made it even more likely that exploration would be a solo activity, not a group one which flies in the face of the intended purpose of the loot scattering mechanic. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Seven Koskanaiken
The Shadow Plague Fidelas Constans
1121
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 14:33:00 -
[390] - Quote
No fewer than 16 data sites in one constellation today, completely untouched. I hope this is being looked at. |
|
Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
457
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 15:02:00 -
[391] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:No fewer than 16 data sites in one constellation today, completely untouched. I hope this is being looked at. I wouldn't be surprised if this has been the situation since the release of Rubicon, when the solar aystem map suddenly started opening with an insane maximum zoom-in setting instead of showing a general view of the whole system as it did previously, making exploration a right PITA. |
Jeremiah Saken
State Protectorate Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 17:16:00 -
[392] - Quote
Quote:No fewer than 16 data sites in one constellation today, completely untouched. I hope this is being looked at.
Data site? Who cares? Same MJD blueprint everywhere. I have kilos of them. If i'm lucky i get 8 mil from data. Last night i loot relic for 30 mil (lowsec). I have a bad feeling about changing loot tables. One of the Devs is moved to look at exploration. Last time they did that we get loot explosion. "I am a leaf on the wind - watch how I soar" "Cry baby cry make, your mother sigh" "Dear Buddha, please bring me a pony and a plastic rocket..." |
Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION The Obsidian Front
398
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 19:20:00 -
[393] - Quote
To be honest, loot spew doesn't bother me. In fact I embrace it and I think it's good.
Just because you succeed at the hacking shouldn't guarantee you get the loot. If I complete a combat site I'm not guaranteed a juicy loot drop. I have to be lucky and with hacking sites you stack the odds in your favour by knowing what's going to be spewed out allowing you to prioritize which cans to go for.
The only issue I have with hacking sites now is the inconsistancy between data and relic sites. Data sites are second rate to relic sites (especially in Null and less so in low sec) and also the way relic sites don't spread their loot accross all the cans. Also, there are several issues with the loot tables and the fact that some items that drop regularly are not consumable.
I think if the loot tables and loot "spread" were balanced and data sites in null got a slight buff to loot, hacking sites would be just fine.
However, loot spew is being removed and with it a level of difficulty and complexity to the game. All because people can't deal with not getting the loot everytime and can't adapt or HTFU.
I will be sad to see it go if there isn't something put in it's place like leveled or layered hacking windows because just getting the loot everytime (lets face it, not many hacking games are that difficult when fitted correctly) is a step backwards.
TL;DR I think loot spew should stay. If it doesn't, hacking should be more difficult or layered to not guarantee a full loot drop.
You all should know that I am posting this from work where it is mandatory for me to wear fire retardant clothing |
Jeremiah Saken
State Protectorate Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 20:36:00 -
[394] - Quote
Quote:However, loot spew is being removed and with it a level of difficulty and complexity to the game. All because people can't deal with not getting the loot everytime and can't adapt or HTFU.
20 pages about why "loot spew" is a bad mechanism. Adapt, HTFU and use Nestor for exploration. HTFU and use car on square wheels. HTFU - what kind of argumentation is that, anyway?
Quote:However, loot spew is being removed and with it a level of difficulty and complexity to the game.
Complexity? "I am a leaf on the wind - watch how I soar" "Cry baby cry make, your mother sigh" "Dear Buddha, please bring me a pony and a plastic rocket..." |
Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION The Obsidian Front
398
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 00:27:00 -
[395] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Quote:However, loot spew is being removed and with it a level of difficulty and complexity to the game. All because people can't deal with not getting the loot everytime and can't adapt or HTFU.
20 pages about why "loot spew" is a bad mechanism. Adapt, HTFU and use Nestor for exploration. HTFU and use car on square wheels. HTFU - what kind of argumentation is that, anyway?
People say it's annoying because you have to click on things to get your loot and you can potentially fail by clicking on the wrong cans. Big-Effin'-Deal. HTFU and get over it. The system works and it is being changed simply because people think it is annoying and "reward stealing". I disagree with both of these points. This is my opinion which I have a right to.
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Quote:However, loot spew is being removed and with it a level of difficulty and complexity to the game. Complexity?
Having to pre plan which loot cans you will prioritize during the loot spew is a level of complexity over just handing it out. I feel this is a step backwards towards the old system where you just sat and watched the module cycle until you got given the loot. Yes we have the mini game but I feel the loot spew added more depth and complexity.
I will be all in favour of a new mechanic which keeps the complexity like a multi layer hack where you have to find the loot in the system before unlocking it.
We also lose the ability to steal loot from someone else hacking without loot spew.
Yes. Loot Spew has issues but I believe these issues are mainly in the loot tables and the fact that some items are persistant when they really should be consumables |
Eris Davion
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 01:03:00 -
[396] - Quote
Spugg Galdon wrote:
TL;DR I think loot spew should stay. If it doesn't, hacking should be more difficult or layered to not guarantee a full loot drop.
I'll take option B in a heartbeat. And I'd say that even if I didn't mind loot spew.
|
Jeremiah Saken
State Protectorate Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 06:19:00 -
[397] - Quote
Quote: People say it's annoying because you have to click on things to get your loot and you can potentially fail by clicking on the wrong cans. Big-Effin'-Deal. HTFU and get over it. The system works and it is being changed simply because people think it is annoying and "reward stealing".
After two weeks in low, doing explo i can get 100% loot from cans (+ slot 10 implant). Yep i HTFU, but again this was done for group of explorers. Nobody do exploration in groups because its random (WH maybe). This was not build to randomize loot we can get and reduce our income. Now we get mechanism that serves no purpose and have technical flaws. This is step backward not forward + it doesn't even have sense (explorers are so stupid they can't prevent cargo from being jettison into space?). Hacking is improvement.
Quote:Having to pre plan which loot cans you will prioritize during the loot spew is a level of complexity over just handing it out.
3 types of can. A plan? Most of cans in data will be parts, BPC are crap anywanyso you won't go for data. Relics - parts/materials. This is so complex.
Quote:We also lose the ability to steal loot from someone else hacking without loot spew.
I always like a good joke. Stratios land on site, i have 30 mil in cargo, in defenseless covop and watch me how i will compete with him on spew cans.
Do you even explore?
Quote:This is my opinion which I have a right to.
Sure. Thats what forums are for. "I am a leaf on the wind - watch how I soar" "Cry baby cry make, your mother sigh" "Dear Buddha, please bring me a pony and a plastic rocket..." |
Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION The Obsidian Front
398
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 10:46:00 -
[398] - Quote
[quote=Jeremiah Saken]
Can't be arsed to qoute cascade so....
- Yep. You have adapted. This is good. But I also stated that the system wasn't perfect. It could use some improvements for example a better loot spew system. One that might even improve and promote teamwork.
- You are hacking into a system and essentially busting the doors open. This is what is spewing the loot out. You have bypassed protocal and opened the cargo doors without depressurization. That's why we see gas clouds and loot spew.
- The can types should be iterated somewhat. I agree that 3 types of can being useful and the rest being a waste of time needs to be looked at. I've also mentioned how BPC's are worthless because of items not being consumable and datacores having poor value.
- You can steal loot in hisec sites. If there were two competing gangs (yes I know gangs doing hacking isn't the best idea at present) loot stealing would be an option in low and null sec and yes I do explore. I also fit my exploration ships to be able to contest sites and I regularly PvP inside the site instead of just filling my lows with warp stabs and being a big girls blouse.
I still believe that removing loot spew without putting something else in it's place instead of the "here have the loot" is a step backwards. |
Seven Koskanaiken
The Shadow Plague Fidelas Constans
1125
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 10:53:00 -
[399] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:3 types of can. A plan? Most of cans in data will be parts, BPC are crap anywanyso you won't go for data. Relics - parts/materials. This is so complex.
I see you've mastered the loot spew. One day you'll be ready to give this a go. |
Jeremiah Saken
State Protectorate Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 12:03:00 -
[400] - Quote
Quote:I see you've mastered the loot spew. One day you'll be ready to give this a go.
So many colors, so many shapes, too complex, abort abort
Quote:One that might even improve and promote teamwork.
Solo activity, why you have to do it for groups? Finding sigs is luck based. Last night i found 8. Two day ago 1.
Quote:You have bypassed protocal and opened the cargo doors without depressurization.
Ok i saw it once, i saw it twice. I'm losing loot. What to do? People would figuret it out, wouldn't they? I'm a pilot directly connected to the ship i'm flying and i can't grab cans at the entrance...
Quote:The can types should be iterated somewhat. I agree that 3 types of can being useful and the rest being a waste of time needs to be looked at.
Quite simple, spread loot for more than 2 or 3 cans types. Cargo scanner would be really usefull. But then it would be only group activity, and explo is not group friendly.
Quote: If there were two competing gangs (yes I know gangs doing hacking isn't the best idea at present) loot stealing would be an option in low and null sec and yes I do explore.
If...
Its better to improve hacking into group activity (solo slower, group faster). "I am a leaf on the wind - watch how I soar" "Cry baby cry make, your mother sigh" "Dear Buddha, please bring me a pony and a plastic rocket..." |
|
Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION The Obsidian Front
398
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 12:18:00 -
[401] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote: Its better to improve hacking into group activity (solo slower, group faster).
This is already true though. Multiple cans means that each person can hack their own can meaning sites are cleared faster in a group than solo.
Or are you suggesting hacking sites should be a single can in which you activate a hacking module on (or multiples there of) and wait to get paid (mining)? |
Jeremiah Saken
State Protectorate Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 12:35:00 -
[402] - Quote
Quote:Or are you suggesting hacking sites should be a single can in which you activate a hacking module on (or multiples there of) and wait to get paid (mining)?
I'm not suggesting anything. We already had that, pre-odyssey. Click on analyzer and wait for can to open. Read my posts in this topic.
PvE is unwanted bastard in this game. All that matters is PvP. If the PvE was better - more players, more target to shoot for PvPers.
Funny you've mentioned mining. They was thinking of "improving" it by adding similiar mechanism. Mineral spew. Tears, so delicious... "I am a leaf on the wind - watch how I soar" "Cry baby cry make, your mother sigh" "Dear Buddha, please bring me a pony and a plastic rocket..." |
Figaro Devars
The Basillisk Company
3
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 03:20:00 -
[403] - Quote
It's not that bad. The hard part is not blowing up the cans with a lot of loot in them, even with good skills. Most of the time, I'm able to get most of the good items though, and null sec cans definitely have a lot more loot than others.
What I don't like are the newer mechanics of probe launching. Insta-probe recall just kills the simulationist nature of EVE for me. Also, I sometimes fine myself exploring less because I feel that the value of the loot is being suppressed by the fact there are too many explorers now, especially with the new SOE ships. As a previous poster mentioned datacores are practically worthless now. Follow me on Twitter at @FigaroDevars |
Drular Exodus
Tech III Industries
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 11:37:00 -
[404] - Quote
Well after reading many of the posts I've come to realize I may be one of the very very few who love loot spewing.
Not for the reason you'd think. But CCP has made exploration so anti-fun that there is very little competition for the data/relic sites. I find one in almost every low sec system and never see anyone else, unless they're trying to kill me.
So I guess I would say thank you CCP for making me one of the few people still willing to go through your trifecta of mini games for a chance at making much less isk than other means.
|
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
706
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 22:45:00 -
[405] - Quote
The argument about loot spew is not about failing to get all the good loot, you can, we have worked out how. The argument about loot spew is not about simplifying the game or complexity. The argument about loot spew is not about players wanting it easy and dumbing down the game
The argument about loot spew is about the fact it is an unpleasant rsi inducing pain in the ass.
Since when has making life as unpleasant as possible a reason to suggest it is a good idea?
Ah i get it.......
And it sucks.
Great, fantastic CCP at last got the message. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Jeremiah Saken
State Protectorate Caldari State
29
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 09:40:00 -
[406] - Quote
Any info about changes to Poteque 'Prospector' Environmental Analysis EY-1005?
Any chance to move one of slot 9 implants (prospectors: hacking or archeology) to slot 10? Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á |
Makino chwan
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 03:31:00 -
[407] - Quote
These lowsec data/relic sites are worth nothing. Has anyone gotten more than 10 million isk from these sites? I scan cans before I do them so I know which cans to pick as quickly as possible, but I don't seem to get the items I want. For me the actual value of these sites are like 1-3 mill isk.
So much for a mini-game, that btw also gives dead ends by just unlucky core spawns that have nothing to do with skill 50/70 virus coherence for each core what??, which rewards you with another gambling mini-game; this loot spew...
If someone could explain to me how you can earn a descent money with these data/relic sites yeah that'll be great, because 1-3mill for each site is just hopeless. Halp /o\ |
Jeremiah Saken
State Protectorate Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 06:22:00 -
[408] - Quote
Makino chwan wrote:These lowsec data/relic sites are worth nothing. Has anyone gotten more than 10 million isk from these sites? I scan cans before I do them so I know which cans to pick as quickly as possible, but I don't seem to get the items I want. For me the actual value of these sites are like 1-3 mill isk.
I get average 10mil from sites. Relics are better (30 mil from one was my record in low). Not every can on site is worth the same. It may be hard to catch all "good" cans without +5 sec implant, especially at relics sites. Simplify: yellow cores may spawn better loot, but you may not be lucky to catch it via loot containers spawn.
Practice makes perfect. Catching cans needs practice.
Loot spew will be removed. Hopefully for summer. Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2230
|
Posted - 2014.04.19 13:06:00 -
[409] - Quote
I mean this in a light hearted way, but with the intention of making a serious point.
I hope whoever came up with the loot spew idea has now been promoted to catching the toast popping out of the CCP kitchen toaster.
Loot spew is probably the dumbest, least enjoyable game mechanic I have seen in all my time playing the game, well apart from mining ice. This is not a signature. |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
716
|
Posted - 2014.04.19 22:44:00 -
[410] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:I mean this in a light hearted way, but with the intention of making a serious point.
I hope whoever came up with the loot spew idea has now been promoted to catching the toast popping out of the CCP kitchen toaster.
Loot spew is probably the dumbest, least enjoyable game mechanic I have seen in all my time playing the game, well apart from mining ice.
That is what happens when marketing get to decide game design..... Probably.
The original minigame was probably designed and tested to utilise shot glasses full of some mind numbing Amarrian liqueur. And the spew was literal.
In both versions the latter process was less than well received.
Note: ensure staff are not drunk out of their brains when deciding game features. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
|
Mistah Ewedynao
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
457
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 13:20:00 -
[411] - Quote
Makino chwan wrote:These lowsec data/relic sites are worth nothing. Has anyone gotten more than 10 million isk from these sites? I scan cans before I do them so I know which cans to pick as quickly as possible, but I don't seem to get the items I want. For me the actual value of these sites are like 1-3 mill isk.
So much for a mini-game, that btw also gives dead ends by just unlucky core spawns that have nothing to do with skill 50/70 virus coherence for each core what??, which rewards you with another gambling mini-game; this loot spew...
If someone could explain to me how you can earn a descent money with these data/relic sites yeah that'll be great, because 1-3mill for each site is just hopeless. Halp /o\
CCP RUINED exploration for me with this and all the other changes. Since I was mostly operating in high sec, I just did radars and the DED's and the good grav sites. Totally ruined for experienced players, for noobs who can't even utilize the stuff.
A solution to a problem that didn't exist. Except maybe they gave the Goons something to do with their unwashed hordes in Blue Sec, and that just did wonders for the price of T2 salvage. I prolly lost a Billion in value on my T2 salvage Inventory for making T2 rigs.
I know two long time players who QUIT, totaling 7 paying accounts, just over what CCP did to Grav sites.
I tried the loot spew crap ONCE, and have loaded anything but a combat scanner probe since. Nerf Goons
Nuke em from orbit....it's the only way to be sure. |
Euripedies
Hot Droppin Cherry Poppers
16
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 15:34:00 -
[412] - Quote
I've done the loot spew a few times. It sucked. Stopped doing it.
The attempt to bring additional content to exploration is nice but The name "lest spew" says a lot about it. It is annoying, has way to much clicking and does not enhance my gaming experience. |
Dark Grayshade
I.T.S Ltd
1
|
Posted - 2014.04.26 18:25:00 -
[413] - Quote
The loot spew is just terrible. The minigame is okay though. |
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
1824
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 01:29:00 -
[414] - Quote
So after a year they finally realized it was a terrible mechanic. CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE-á/ Dynamic New Eden |
Helmut Rul
The Funkalistic Imperial Republic Of the North
7
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 10:09:00 -
[415] - Quote
Honestly, if they get rid of the loot spew (and they ought to), they should have the minigame unlock the rewards.
Break open a node and you get some kind of reward, harder nodes give better reward. Add in a node that can counterhack and destroy or devalue rewards for some added excitement.
Basically the minigame is OK, but somewhat dull, add some fun and pressure by making the minigame mean something beyond finding the core and busting it open. This would also give a reason to uncovering as much of the minigame map as possible.
For as it stands the minigame is fun (or at least more fun than the loot spew mechanism) but offer little beyond activating the loot spew. |
Boatmans Throns
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 13:44:00 -
[416] - Quote
Threads like this will never give an accurate picture of what the exploring community thinks. The people who hate it will be very vocal while the people who like it will stay off to the side or even participate in the hate to lower the amount of competition. |
SFM Hobb3s
Wrecking Shots Black Legion.
75
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 16:29:00 -
[417] - Quote
Seems the general concensus is everyone hates the loot spew. Crossing my fingers its removal does make it for the summer expansion (or sooner lol).
On the other hand I would have loved to see the chaos and outrage if this feature had been applied to all ship wrecks instead (pve AND pvp) Hehehe. |
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
377
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 03:48:00 -
[418] - Quote
Was there any mention of this in FF?
I would really like to see the loot spew go away but keep the minigame - unless the spew cans can appear on the overview or something other than the tiny things you can barely see. |
Kaivar Lancer
Biological Mechanical Unlimited
500
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 10:52:00 -
[419] - Quote
I gave exploration another chance. I found myself zooming out to get all the cans onscreen, and then squinting at the monitor, hovering my mouse over each can to see if they were Parts, Material etc. After half an hour, my eyes began hurting so I gave up. |
Ramere
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 21:21:00 -
[420] - Quote
Accidentally found one of these sites. Gave the new mechanics a try; pretty cool.
I don't think I've ever enjoyed a mini game inside another game, but I don't mind this one.
Loot spew seems identical to salvaging to me, not sure what the fuss is about. |
|
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
35
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 22:03:00 -
[421] - Quote
Ramere wrote:Loot spew seems identical to salvaging to me, not sure what the fuss is about.
Except salvage wrecks don't magicaly disappers after few seconds. Carbon is so fragile you know.
I'm exploring for 3 months now and the day when i don't see green dots after can decompression sound will be like second Xmas. Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á |
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
381
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 22:18:00 -
[422] - Quote
Ramere wrote:Accidentally found one of these sites. Gave the new mechanics a try; pretty cool.
I don't think I've ever enjoyed a mini game inside another game, but I don't mind this one.
Loot spew seems identical to salvaging to me, not sure what the fuss is about.
When was the last time you had to frantically click a bunch of moving cans that dont show on the overview and hope you pull in the right ones before they all disappear when salvaging? when you salvage the wrecks stick around 2 hrs not 30 seconds |
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
381
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 22:19:00 -
[423] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Ramere wrote:Loot spew seems identical to salvaging to me, not sure what the fuss is about. Except salvage wrecks don't magicaly disappers after few seconds. Carbon is so fragile you know. I'm exploring for 3 months now and the day when i don't see green dots after can decompression sound will be like second Xmas.
Makes me wonder how colorblind dudes manage to see the spew cans at all, if they even can. |
Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
465
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 01:22:00 -
[424] - Quote
Ramere wrote:Loot spew seems identical to salvaging to me, not sure what the fuss is about. It bears absolutely no resemblance whatsoever to salvaging. |
Tenchi Sal
White Knights of Equestria
194
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 16:22:00 -
[425] - Quote
Oraac Ensor wrote:Ramere wrote:Loot spew seems identical to salvaging to me, not sure what the fuss is about. It bears absolutely no resemblance whatsoever to salvaging.
im sure hes referring to the tractoring part of salvaging. |
Hans Tesla
RigWerks Incorporated
42
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 16:30:00 -
[426] - Quote
Tenchi Sal wrote:Oraac Ensor wrote:Ramere wrote:Loot spew seems identical to salvaging to me, not sure what the fuss is about. It bears absolutely no resemblance whatsoever to salvaging. im sure hes referring to the tractoring part of salvaging. You mean the one where I can have the star map completely covering the screen, but can still use the Overview to tractor in wrecks? Day Trading? More like-áAll Day Trading... |
Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
467
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 16:56:00 -
[427] - Quote
Tenchi Sal wrote:Oraac Ensor wrote:Ramere wrote:Loot spew seems identical to salvaging to me, not sure what the fuss is about. It bears absolutely no resemblance whatsoever to salvaging. im sure hes referring to the tractoring part of salvaging. My point still stands. |
Batelle
Tymast Industries 150th
2590
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 17:33:00 -
[428] - Quote
i still don't know how ccp designed this mechanic with making them addable to the overview. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Blastcaps Madullier
Handsome Millionaire Playboys Mordus Angels
126
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 15:13:00 -
[429] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. Just to clarify, this IS being removed with khronos? :)
|
Nimrod vanHall
Martyr's Vengence Nulli Secunda
81
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 09:47:00 -
[430] - Quote
Blastcaps Madullier wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. Just to clarify, this IS being removed with khronos? :) I hope so, loot spewing completely killed killed exploration for me. P.s. while hour at it also remeve the content scannability of cans. It removes a sense of wonder during exploration. |
|
Khadrea Shakor
Shakor Freight and Mining Service
22
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 10:19:00 -
[431] - Quote
I am all for ditching the spew mechanic and making the cans un-scanable. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
37
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 10:22:00 -
[432] - Quote
Blastcaps Madullier wrote:Just to clarify, this IS being removed with khronos? :)
I watched Fanfest 2014 game design panel. They are mention exploration - scattering mechanic. From what one of Dev's said, they are changing scattering mechanic. I don't know what he meant by that, and nobody ask about it at panel. Changing is not removing. Clearly we need clarification.
Nimrod vanHall wrote:P.s. while hour at it also remeve the content scannability of cans. It removes a sense of wonder during exploration.
At first i thought it would be great but yesterday i ran site with 7 cans. Hacking would become mindless clickfest. So if removing scannability they will have to reduce number of cans per site, so loot value will drop, so tears will flow...and i would explo anyway:) Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á |
Blastcaps Madullier
Handsome Millionaire Playboys Mordus Angels
128
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 10:56:00 -
[433] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Blastcaps Madullier wrote:Just to clarify, this IS being removed with khronos? :) I watched Fanfest 2014 game design panel. They are mention exploration - scattering mechanic. From what one of Dev's said, they are changing scattering mechanic. I don't know what he meant by that, and nobody ask about it at panel. Changing is not removing. Clearly we need clarification. Nimrod vanHall wrote:P.s. while hour at it also remeve the content scannability of cans. It removes a sense of wonder during exploration. At first i thought it would be great but yesterday i ran site with 7 cans. Hacking would become mindless clickfest. So if removing scannability they will have to reduce number of cans per site, so loot value will drop, so tears will flow...and i would explo anyway:)
well if you remember the older system under radar/mag sites you used to just get a can to open after you finished hacking/analizing it, no loot loss due to loot can spew mechanics. As someone else noted else where atm with loot can spew on top of the mini game it's esentially a case of your being forced to "play" a second mini game called catch your prizes/loot.
as for if it was removed entierly that it would be a click fest, tbt personaly I dont mind the mini game, plus given the fact you CAN fail the hack attempt you do have the chance to loose loot.
And I'd also be glad if they remove the ability to scan the cans, I've done HS/LS and null (npc and sov) exploration and noticed in HS especialy that you scan down a Radar or Mag site and invariably someones already been there used the cargo scanner and looted everything decent and just left the c**p behind. Which with HS isn't fun or good on newbie players either, because if all their managing to find is c**p their going to just give up exploration and possibly try something else, and as we know exploration can be damn profitable (depending on your luck :) |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
38
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 11:28:00 -
[434] - Quote
Blastcaps Madullier wrote:as for if it was removed entierly that it would be a click fest, tbt personaly I dont mind the mini game, plus given the fact you CAN fail the hack attempt you do have the chance to loose loot.
I do like hacking, it's improvement from just sit and watch module cycles, but with increasing number of cans its become boring. I assume there will be more cans in null and huge amount in WH. Between 3-6 per site is optimal i think. I'm trying to destroy cans that i don't hack to respawn faster but with increase number of cans its time-consuming.
I undestand your point. Exploring without scanner is like unwrapping presents. You never know what you'll get. Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á |
Blastcaps Madullier
Handsome Millionaire Playboys Mordus Angels
129
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 14:45:00 -
[435] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote: I undestand your point. Exploring without scanner is like unwrapping presents. You never know what you'll get.
Plus it also stops people cherry picking the good stuff and leaving the c**p behind, one of the suggestions I made a while back was have a timer on it which starts from when the first person has been in the site, the site despawns (possibly 10 mins after they leave? not sure tbt what is a good time limit wise) so that generaly rather than you come along scan down a site and then find someones cherry picked the best stuff in the site and you've wasted time scanning it down, you can just find another site fast.
In regards to Loot after the completing the mining game I would be happy, and I think most others would be as well, if it went back to the old system, Ie successful hack opens the can with the loot inside the can, rather than the damn loot can spew, so you dont loose any loot, and anything you choose to leave behind, someone else can just come upto it and loot whatever is left IF they want to, ie someone MIGHT only want say decryptors, though they would be VERY happy to snag any faction starbase mod prints, but you might not want to snag any skill books, salvage etc, so Possibly after someone warps off after opening the last can, 5 Mins? 10 Mins later a beacon spawns thats viewable on the overview that ANYONE can warp to, and can loot anything remaining, which also in LS/Null/WH space means you can actualy use that to setup ambushes etc. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
39
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 20:56:00 -
[436] - Quote
Blastcaps Madullier wrote:Plus it also stops people cherry picking the good stuff and leaving the c**p behind
This is still their way of doing sites. I don't want to "force" ppl to do explo the way i like it to be done. This is suppose to be sandbox after all. Maybe lets decide what to do with cans. Lets every can we hacked grants us some ISK. That way some of us will cherry pick cans they choose, while other, that want to hack and stay on site longer, gets some aditional rewards.
OT some ideas for "blind" exploration exploration Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á |
Bridgette d'Iberville
Better Killing Through Chemistry
227
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 21:10:00 -
[437] - Quote
I can't take credit for it (pretty sure the idea is somewhere in this thread), but I like the idea of just consolidating everything into the hacking minigame. Basically, replace the "Firewall Nodes" on the hacking map with "Data/Parts/Etc Container Nodes" of the same variety that currently spew out when you beat the hack. So, if you scanned down the container before hand and it had a BPC, you're mainly looking for Data Containers. Once you find a container, your path is blocked as if it were a firewall and you'd have to engage in the minigame in order to open it and either clear your path on the map or grab the item you want.
ETA: This would be even more awesome if multiple people could do it at once. Move along! |
LaoJtzu
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 09:20:00 -
[438] - Quote
Treborr MintingtonJr wrote:Looking back, I have found nothing wrong with loot spew, cargo scan first then that will tell which containers to get, meerkat simples.
I must be missing something. If I scan a data site can and it shows a BP I figure grabbing the spewed data cans will most likely yeild the BPs. But sometimes they yield pieces of paper. Same with other valuable things. There's no gaurantie, even with a pre-scanned can and selecting that category from the spew that you'll actually get that item. Unless BPs are labeled 'trash' or something random that I need to learn. So anything that removes the 'grab 2 or 3 spew cans and hope for the best before they all piffle away' would be most welcome to me. |
|
CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
1549
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 11:16:00 -
[439] - Quote
Blastcaps Madullier wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. Just to clarify, this IS being removed with khronos? :)
confirmed. CCP Affinity | Follow me on Twitter Content Designer for EVE Online |
|
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2387
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 11:18:00 -
[440] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:Blastcaps Madullier wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. Just to clarify, this IS being removed with khronos? :) confirmed.
Confirmed, something or other to do with exploration is being removed. This is not a signature. |
|
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2345
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 11:19:00 -
[441] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:Blastcaps Madullier wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. Just to clarify, this IS being removed with khronos? :) confirmed. With how releases are being handled will there be more time or opprutinities to work on exploration(both combat and non combat)? -á --á |
|
CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
1549
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 11:22:00 -
[442] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:Blastcaps Madullier wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. Just to clarify, this IS being removed with khronos? :) confirmed. Confirmed, something or other to do with exploration is being removed.
he asked if loot spew was still being removed for Kronos - I was simply answering his question CCP Affinity | Follow me on Twitter Content Designer for EVE Online |
|
|
CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
1549
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 11:24:00 -
[443] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:Blastcaps Madullier wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. Just to clarify, this IS being removed with khronos? :) confirmed. With how releases are being handled will there be more time or opprutinities to work on exploration(both combat and non combat)?
Work priorities haven't changed, we are just able to release things when they are finished rather than waiting for the next release window. You should check out the EVE Keynote from fanfest, it shows what we will be working on for the next while :) CCP Affinity | Follow me on Twitter Content Designer for EVE Online |
|
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2387
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 11:25:00 -
[444] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:Blastcaps Madullier wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. Just to clarify, this IS being removed with khronos? :) confirmed. Confirmed, something or other to do with exploration is being removed. he asked if loot spew was still being removed for Kronos - I was simply answering his question
Sorry if I came across as facetious, but I do not have much time to keep up with Eve lately.
I am relieved and pleased that one of the few Eve game mechanics I have really disliked is being removed.
So, has the originator of the loot spew mechanic idea been promoted to catching the toast jumping out of the CCP toaster? This is not a signature. |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1387
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 11:28:00 -
[445] - Quote
if you remove the loot spew, will you also change some drop chances? increased loot from exploration has driven quite a few prices down :( GRRR Goons |
Khadrea Shakor
Shakor Freight and Mining Service
23
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 11:29:00 -
[446] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:So, has the originator of the loot spew mechanic idea been promoted to catching the toast jumping out of the CCP toaster? ...using only his left hand. And seven toasters spew the toasts simultaneously. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
40
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 11:36:00 -
[447] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:he asked if loot spew was still being removed for Kronos - I was simply answering his question
Great. Long waited statement. Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á |
Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
472
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 12:59:00 -
[448] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:So, has the originator of the loot spew mechanic idea been promoted to catching the toast jumping out of the CCP toaster? At a rough guess, he/she was transferred to the UI team that produced the new tooltips. |
Priestess Lin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
108
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 13:13:00 -
[449] - Quote
Batelle wrote:I just tried loot spew for the first time this week and I think its awful. It also seems a bit silly that of the 5 types of containers, only 1-2 of the types ever have anything worth going for. Its interesting that they made use of the cargo scanner, but really, the whole thing is just insult to injury. If we beat the damn minigame, then just give us the bacon already! The fact that ship agility plays a role, and you can't see what type a container is without mousing over it first are just stupid. Lastly, you're double clicking on stuff to get your ship to approach, yet often your ship gets hung up on the damn structure! Is there some way to tell which side the loot spew will come from?
There's no OTHER reason to bring a second character in besides the loot spew either. I think CCP got a little overzealous in making bot-proof gameplay.
Lastly, I do like the minigame.
such a baby. It seems fine to me. |
|
CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
1549
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 13:16:00 -
[450] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:if you remove the loot spew, will you also change some drop chances? increased loot from exploration has driven quite a few prices down :(
yes, we will balance accordingly :) CCP Affinity | Follow me on Twitter Content Designer for EVE Online |
|
|
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
802
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 13:18:00 -
[451] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:Gilbaron wrote:if you remove the loot spew, will you also change some drop chances? increased loot from exploration has driven quite a few prices down :( yes, we will balance accordingly :)
some rare stuff you can't get anywhere else would be nice... Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
40
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 13:23:00 -
[452] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote: yes, we will balance accordingly :)
Please, don't forget to put some carbon there. Just for sentiment. Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á |
|
CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
1549
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 13:33:00 -
[453] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:CCP Affinity wrote: yes, we will balance accordingly :)
Please, don't forget to put some carbon there. Just for sentiment.
will see what I can do ;) CCP Affinity | Follow me on Twitter Content Designer for EVE Online |
|
Priestess Lin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
111
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 13:52:00 -
[454] - Quote
I don't understand. What is wrong with the mechanic from CCPs perspective?
Granted a lot of don't like losing potential loot, but the masses are a bunch of babies who want things to be as easy as possible, if possible.
|
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1387
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 14:41:00 -
[455] - Quote
Awesome, thanks :) GRRR Goons |
Sven Viko VIkolander
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
178
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 15:06:00 -
[456] - Quote
Happy the loot spew is being removed, but I am wondering how players can do a better job getting features removed more quickly. When it comes to loot spew:
1. Initial feedback when loot spew was released on the test server was highly negative from a wide variety of players, many of whom cited good arguments (beyond simply disliking the mechanic) against it (e.g., the mechanic did not accomplish its stated goal, nor any other goals, it was difficult to interact with such small objects in space, it ruined the sense of accomplishing the mini-game, it hurt the hands after a while, etc.).
2. The feature, if I recall, was tweaked, even though the vast majority of players giving feedback argued it should be removed. The modification (making the cans fly slower) did not address most issues, and in fact contradiction the initial goal of the loot spew encouraging cooperative play (it is funny how a system can be developed for some goal G, and yet when it fails to accomplish G the designers of that system scramble to find something else that the system accomplishes, rather than actually revamping it to accomplish G).
3. Weeks and months after release players continued to argue on the forums, via csm, in person, etc., that the mechanic is terrible and ought to be removed.
Basically, I don't know what more players could have done to communicate to the devs that this feature is terrible. Here we are, a year later (!), and it is finally being removed. What I want to know is, why did it take so long? And what can players do better (if anything!) to get features like this removed--not just modified? (I ask because the new tooltip system is one such terrible mechanic which does not need to be modified but thrown out, for instance, and I don't want to be stuck with it for years.) |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1934
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 15:39:00 -
[457] - Quote
Sven Viko VIkolander wrote:Basically, I don't know what more players could have done to communicate to the devs that this feature is terrible. Here we are, a year later (!), and it is finally being removed. What I want to know is, why did it take so long? And what can players do better (if anything!) to get features like this removed--not just modified?
Seconded. I have no issue with the tooltips, but from just this one example it's clear that player feedback is being treated as white noise, unless you get large-bloc nullie CSMs talking about it and rabble-rousing. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
388
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 15:43:00 -
[458] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:if you remove the loot spew, will you also change some drop chances? increased loot from exploration has driven quite a few prices down :(
Yeah the market in Ancient Technology skill books completely crashed. |
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
388
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 15:46:00 -
[459] - Quote
Priestess Lin wrote:I don't understand. What is wrong with the mechanic from CCPs perspective?
Granted a lot of don't like losing any potential loot, but the masses are a bunch of babies who want things to be as easy as possible, if possible.
I don't see very many descriptive complaints on how the mechanic is bad.
I just started doing it and it seems enjoyable to me thus far. The more real-time interactive mechanics the better. You have got to be quick if you want to get the loot you need, and you will have to make quick decisions on what you can grab if you want to maximize your profits. Having a more agile ship and actively piloting your ship will help you get the further away containers you need.
Any feature enjoyable in EVE should be compatible with being drunk or stoned. |
Vivi Udan
Multiplex Gaming Li3 Federation
14
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 18:34:00 -
[460] - Quote
Has CCP decided what is going to happen to the Loot Spew Implant in the Kronos release? o7
CCP Affinity wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote: What's going to happen to the implant that affects loot spew? that part of it just removed?
Haven't decided yet :) The Mittani of House GoonWaffe,-áFirst of His name, King of the Goons and VFK,-áMaster of griefing,-áLord of the CFC, Warden of the West,-áand Protector of Deklein. |
|
Bohneik Itohn
Periphery Bound
95
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 23:24:00 -
[461] - Quote
Gonna miss loot spew...
It'll be nice only having to use a cargo scanner for ghost sites though.... |
Blastcaps Madullier
Handsome Millionaire Playboys Mordus Angels
139
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 02:17:00 -
[462] - Quote
well there's a chunk of us sincerly hope that CCP makes ALL exploration sites unscanable by cargo scanners so people cant just cherry pick everything worthwhile/good and leave the c**p behind...
|
Khadrea Shakor
Shakor Freight and Mining Service
23
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 04:10:00 -
[463] - Quote
Blastcaps Madullier wrote:well there's a chunk of us sincerly hope that CCP makes ALL exploration sites unscanable by cargo scanners so people cant just cherry pick everything worthwhile/good and leave the c**p behind...
Not empty quoting. |
Rekkr Nordgard
Imperial Reclaiming
389
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 06:15:00 -
[464] - Quote
Ugh, the new tooltip popups make the loot vomit mechanic even worse, since it's much harder to scan the types of cans with your mouse. I cannot wait for this to be removed. |
Sibyyl
Brave Collective
912
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 10:23:00 -
[465] - Quote
I'm concerned that the mechanic is said to "hopefully" be removed, but that no alternative idea for it has been presented by CCP.
Please at least give us an idea.. Take solace knowing that even after the sun sets, and your sky is filled with darkness, that the sun is still shining. -D. Entervention Psychotic Monk joins BNI |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
40
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 10:37:00 -
[466] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:I'm concerned that the mechanic is said to "hopefully" be removed, but that no alternative idea for it has been presented by CCP.
Please at least give us an idea..
Tricky. You think they will remove scattering and substitute it with other mechanism than open can>loot items?
That would be super trollish. On the other hand i had a tooltip that say gate is "gate". Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á |
Blastcaps Madullier
Handsome Millionaire Playboys Mordus Angels
142
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 13:22:00 -
[467] - Quote
Obliously there's going to be a nerf to amount of loot getting dropped, and tbt I wouldn't mind if it went back to the old system where you succeded in gaining access to the can you opened it and looted, as for the nerf of loot amount, it's likely when the loot spew mechanic gets taken out that a bunch of people who used to do exploration but dont anymore due to the look can spew are liable to start back up again, so while the quantity per site may drop it should be balanced out by the quantity of players doing exploration again. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
3389
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 14:43:00 -
[468] - Quote
I'm pretty sure they have stats that show how much of the spewed loot got picked up on average and then nerf the can content accordingly to avoid a inflation of exploration proceeds.
Personally I'd love to see them going further with the idea of the hacking game being a 'rogue-like' and one has to go deeper to find more stuff with nodes per level to add items into the final can you can get out with. That is unless your hacking fails and you lose everything.
Than maybe add remote hacking support (maybe with scripts on the modules) that allows one to get deeper more easily and you have a reason to do exploration in a (small) group. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
Priestess Lin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
113
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 06:06:00 -
[469] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:I'm concerned that the mechanic is said to "hopefully" be removed, but that no alternative idea for it has been presented by CCP.
Please at least give us an idea..
they are just going to give it to you so you don't have to do anything else. EVE players want this easy, they don't want to have to work for their meal. The thought of having to use some real time skills to get all the items they want is unacceptable.. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
48
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 09:17:00 -
[470] - Quote
Priestess Lin wrote:they are just going to give it to you so you don't have to do anything else. EVE players want this easy, they don't want to have to work for their meal. The thought of having to use some real time skills to get all the items they want is unacceptable..
Yhm, yeah. Let's add some third mini game (because scanning and hacking is not enough). Puzzles will be good for you? And then fourth, items identification, skilled ofc. You must use scroll to identify items, bought by LP's, connect dots. Then slay a dragon that guards "treasures", random spawn at sites. Enough?
Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á |
|
Blastcaps Madullier
Handsome Millionaire Playboys Mordus Angels
144
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 13:49:00 -
[471] - Quote
Priestess Lin wrote:Sibyyl wrote:I'm concerned that the mechanic is said to "hopefully" be removed, but that no alternative idea for it has been presented by CCP.
Please at least give us an idea.. they are just going to give it to you so you don't have to do anything else. EVE players want this easy, they don't want to have to work for their meal. The thought of having to use some real time skills to get all the items they want is unacceptable..
As someone else posted elsewhere, it's like your running 2 mini games, one to get access to the prizes then another game (loot can spew) ON TOP of the first, and it's not some of us want it "easier" we want it to be reasonable ie NOT have to play a second mini game just to get the loot we've 'won' |
ShadowBlood Sentinel
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 19:40:00 -
[472] - Quote
To CCP Affinity,
Is it possible to reduce the m3 volume of datacores?
I believe this will help make running data sites more viable in addition to the steps CCP has stated are already being made.
Simply put. Nearly 50% of the time if not more, i can not loot a whole data site in one trip because of the size of datacores (currently 1 m3 each). If I find the high end sites its impossible for me to grab everything worth any decent value, decorders, datacores, etc. because the standard covert op cargo hold is just under 200 m3. I would understand if there's a reason for this. But to my knowledge there's no logical reason why datacores shouldn't be .1 m3 instead of 1 m3.
I hope this suggestion is informative to you.
|
Blastcaps Madullier
Handsome Millionaire Playboys Mordus Angels
146
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 07:03:00 -
[473] - Quote
ShadowBlood Sentinel wrote:To CCP Affinity,
Is it possible to reduce the m3 volume of datacores?
I believe this will help make running data sites more viable in addition to the steps CCP has stated are already being made.
Simply put. Nearly 50% of the time if not more, i can not loot a whole data site in one trip because of the size of datacores (currently 1 m3 each). If I find the high end sites its impossible for me to grab everything worth any decent value, decorders, datacores, etc. because the standard covert op cargo hold is just under 200 m3. I would understand if there's a reason for this. But to my knowledge there's no logical reason why datacores shouldn't be .1 m3 instead of 1 m3.
I hope this suggestion is informative to you never really considered the datacores to be "large" but also cant see also why they wouldn't be 0.1m3, and tbt sounds like CCP could do with also increasing the Covert ops cargo hold some. |
Funky Engine
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 15:18:00 -
[474] - Quote
So it was suggested that I post an idea over here from the in game chat. Not sure if it's already been brought up, but with the loot spew mechanics being taken away, why doesn't CCP add multiple nodes in the hacking game to hack? Each one could unlock a different item or group of items. They could also add a time limit of sorts, either in the form of a literal time limit (e.g. 5 minutes) or in the form of a counter-hack (e.g. Deus Ex). Going to all the items appearing in a can, which I'm told is the old way, seems kind of boring to me. |
Blastcaps Madullier
Handsome Millionaire Playboys Mordus Angels
148
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 15:28:00 -
[475] - Quote
Funky Engine wrote:So it was suggested that I post an idea over here from the in game chat. Not sure if it's already been brought up, but with the loot spew mechanics being taken away, why doesn't CCP add multiple nodes in the hacking game to hack? Each one could unlock a different item or group of items. They could also add a time limit of sorts, either in the form of a literal time limit (e.g. 5 minutes) or in the form of a counter-hack (e.g. Deus Ex). Going to all the items appearing in a can, which I'm told is the old way, seems kind of boring to me.
Maybe it's better going back to the old way, and later on add something like your suggestions onto SISI so that the player base can test it, tbt dont think the time limit one is a good idea, can see why it could be considered, however unless your in highsec, your already risking your ship exploring LS/null/WH and in HS if a neut comes into local it's very likely you haven't got trouble heading your way, LS or Null new neut on local does mean your liable to get a unwanted visitor show up wanting to turn your ship into pritty fire works :) the counter hack idea...... on sites possily not, at least the normal data/relics however there's nothing stopping CCP bringing in "specialist" sites which are possibly eve wide connected, so when someone starts hacking one site, it likes to another of the specialist ones and pits two players head to head, hacking wise, and idea is you have to get to your oponents Core before they nail yours.
|
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
48
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 22:02:00 -
[476] - Quote
Funky Engine wrote:So it was suggested that I post an idea over here from the in game chat. Not sure if it's already been brought up, but with the loot spew mechanics being taken away, why doesn't CCP add multiple nodes in the hacking game to hack? Each one could unlock a different item or group of items.
I don't think i follow. You want more than one core on grid for different items? or nodes to hack on different items and then system core? Hacking modules must be buffed then to hack more nodes than usuall. Then what? All that hacked items from nodes will be shown when cans is opened? how boring. Not to mention it will be impossible to manage loot tables. How do you organise loot items on nodes? i want better hacking but this doesn't seem right way. I took quick look on Deus Ex hacking, it's seems more complex both hacker and hacking side.
Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á |
Trifle Donier
Sham Rocks Incorporated
10
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 05:10:00 -
[477] - Quote
ShadowBlood Sentinel wrote: Simply put. Nearly 50% of the time if not more, i can not loot a whole data site in one trip because of the size of datacores (currently 1 m3 each). If I find the high end sites its impossible for me to grab everything worth any decent value, decorders, datacores, etc. because the standard covert op cargo hold is just under 200 m3. I would understand if there's a reason for this. But to my knowledge there's no logical reason why datacores shouldn't be .1 m3 instead of 1 m3.
I haven't had this problem with data cores, but I have had issues with those stupid pirate alloys (Auxiliary Parts, etc)... 1m3 each, drop 100 at a time, and are worth absolutely nothing. |
Kamorain Dinard
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
23
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 08:37:00 -
[478] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.
Yay!
I don't post much on the forums (understatement). I started playing before Odessy and did some exploration and, was looking forward to more in Odyssey. The changes in Odyssey were all nice (apart from grav sites moving to anoms IMHO) but, I was put off by the loot spew thing (perhaps irrationally) and never really got back into it. I should give it a try again when this hits. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
49
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 09:27:00 -
[479] - Quote
Kamorain Dinard wrote: Yay!
I don't post much on the forums (understatement). I started playing before Odessy and did some exploration and, was looking forward to more in Odyssey. The changes in Odyssey were all nice (apart from grav sites moving to anoms IMHO) but, I was put off by the loot spew thing (perhaps irrationally) and never really got back into it. I should give it a try again when this hits.
After removing scattering mechanism, hacking is next to look at Less clicking more thinking is the way i think. Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á |
Kamorain Dinard
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
23
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 09:35:00 -
[480] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:After removing scattering mechanism, hacking is next to look at Less clicking more thinking is the way i think.
Agreed. It is a bit random at the moment. More of a puzzle element would be better I think. |
|
Funky Engine
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 16:13:00 -
[481] - Quote
Blastcaps Madullier wrote:Maybe it's better going back to the old way, and later on add something like your suggestions onto SISI so that the player base can test it, tbt dont think the time limit one is a good idea, can see why it could be considered, however unless your in highsec, your already risking your ship exploring LS/null/WH and in HS if a neut comes into local it's very likely you haven't got trouble heading your way, LS or Null new neut on local does mean your liable to get a unwanted visitor show up wanting to turn your ship into pritty fire works :)
I would have to imagine that the time limit would help in low/null sites, because it would prevent you from sitting idle in the site for to long. However, I'm not necessarily thinking of a hard time limit like a countdown clock. More like a soft timer with the counter hacking idea. Drawing on the Deus Ex game, you can give the player options to extend the amount of time they have as well.
Blastcaps Madullier wrote:the counter hack idea...... on sites possily not, at least the normal data/relics however there's nothing stopping CCP bringing in "specialist" sites which are possibly eve wide connected, so when someone starts hacking one site, it likes to another of the specialist ones and pits two players head to head, hacking wise, and idea is you have to get to your oponents Core before they nail yours.
I was actually thinking it would be an 'AI' of sorts doing the counter hacking (like in Deus Ex) instead of another player. Though the idea of having another site where you are directly competing against another player does seem interesting.
Jeremiah Saken wrote:I don't think i follow. You want more than one core on grid for different items? or nodes to hack on different items and then system core? Hacking modules must be buffed then to hack more nodes than usuall. Then what? All that hacked items from nodes will be shown when cans is opened? how boring. Not to mention it will be impossible to manage loot tables. How do you organise loot items on nodes? i want better hacking but this doesn't seem right way. I took quick look on Deus Ex hacking, it's seems more complex both hacker and hacking side.
Correct, more than one core on the hacking grid for different items. The system core could either be removed entirely or could be left in as a way to boost the strength of your ship module if you capture it. The hacking game being completed if you manage to unlock all cores or if the counter-hack is successful or some other type of timer runs out. As for the module, I would buff it but not enough to guarantee that you'll always be able to unlock everything but enough that you would have a good chance to get everything. Less if the system core is retained for the previously described purpose. I'm imaging that the loot table would work like normal, but that each core would do a quick round robin picking items that they would release into the can if hacked before the hacking game actually starts.
If you can, I recommend playing the Deus Ex hacking mini-game. It probably just looks more complicated than it is in the video you watched, because I don't know of a single person that had issues learning how to play it and most of them enjoyed it enough that it didn't get to repetitive throughout the course of the game. As it stands, it seems like the hacking game in eve took some inspiration from it as well. |
Pix Severus
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
951
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 16:38:00 -
[482] - Quote
Loot spew removed on Sisi My lord. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
51
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 21:51:00 -
[483] - Quote
Funky Engine wrote:Correct, more than one core on the hacking grid for different items. The system core could either be removed entirely or could be left in as a way to boost the strength of your ship module if you capture it. The hacking game being completed if you manage to unlock all cores or if the counter-hack is successful or some other type of timer runs out. As for the module, I would buff it but not enough to guarantee that you'll always be able to unlock everything but enough that you would have a good chance to get everything
Problem is hacking is too random. You can't afford to "sightsee" the hardest grids because subsystems will eat you. So main goal is to find core as fast as possible. If hacking was less random more tactical it would be an option to consider i think. Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á |
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
748
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 13:47:00 -
[484] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:Blastcaps Madullier wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:We are removing it, hopefully for Summer. Just to clarify, this IS being removed with khronos? :) confirmed.
woot Not today spaghetti. |
Myrthiis
Boon Odd Ducks Bath Toys
17
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 23:22:00 -
[485] - Quote
Hacking without lootspew is a walk in the park honnestly .
-I strongly agree with the multicore idea ,it ll increase randomness in the drop and make the thing interesting .Sure some adjusment could be necessary in the mini game itself .But i find the idea exciting. -Make containers immune to cargo scan beacause ,there is nothing more annoying than an already looted anomaly -Maybe we should include a timer in the hacking mini game ,it'll give an utility to the implant too . |
Gerard Naari
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 15:22:00 -
[486] - Quote
As if scanning and cherry picking loot with cargo scanners was not easy enough ...... |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1421
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 22:41:00 -
[487] - Quote
Gerard Naari wrote:As if scanning and cherry picking loot with cargo scanners was not easy enough ......
The automated scanning of anoms to 100% without using probes is the core source of the problem here. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Gaellia Bonaventure
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
2306
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 18:16:00 -
[488] - Quote
Not a fan of the loot spew, either. Bring your possibles. |
HeXxploiT
Rhongomiant Legion Industries The Explicit Alliance
29
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 05:22:00 -
[489] - Quote
Is the plan still to cut loot tables in half?
|
Twentyone 12
Test For Echo
8
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 08:01:00 -
[490] - Quote
HeXxploiT wrote:Is the plan still to cut loot tables in half?
The only official word is that the loot tables will be "adjusted". No percentage has been communicated as far as I know.
/2112
|
|
Bridgette d'Iberville
Better Killing Through Chemistry
233
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 14:03:00 -
[491] - Quote
Loot tables are now at 70% pre-Odyssey (on SiSi) per the DEV post in the Petition to Bring Back Loot Spew thread in the GD forum. Move along! |
Rekkr Nordgard
Imperial Reclaiming
389
|
Posted - 2014.06.03 17:07:00 -
[492] - Quote
Just ran my first relic site post-Kronos and it was great. Was actually fun to play the mini-game and then click "loot all" instead of the stress of furiously clicking in space for 30 seconds wondering if the best loot was in the container that just disappeared. Thanks for making the change, CCP. |
James Lawsone
Tactical operations in unknown space
0
|
Posted - 2014.06.03 18:58:00 -
[493] - Quote
Thanks to your excellent improvements they earn only 10 m instead of 25 as previously serious as thank you repair the things that are in the wrong place those that are already broken a long time. start on his puny island beseech you to think and relate to people. edit things that are essential and those that are not alright What do you think now on the character who has trained at the maximum probed, relics do ... though now thanks to you, not even in null sec does not make the boat when it kills ...
This is so unless the petition ... otherwise it nevyd+¡m to have an epiphany to get you there blew another volcano or something: D sorry for small trololo
ps translator ... |
Putka Amelana
Blue Sun Industry Nova Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 05:38:00 -
[494] - Quote
Really now, if you couldn't pick up 90% of the valuable containers you either didn't spend freakin' 10 seconds to read which ones you should pick up or you are one of those people that try to do sites with tengus( -_-). Now, i've tried doing a data site in high sec. 60k isk worth of positron cords, that's it! I don't even want to know how low it got in nullsec as i used to make even 60 mil/hr. |
Khadrea Shakor
Shakor Freight and Mining Service
23
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 07:44:00 -
[495] - Quote
Putka Amelana wrote:Really now, if you couldn't pick up 90% of the valuable containers you either didn't spend freakin' 10 seconds to read which ones you should pick up or you are one of those people that try to do sites with tengus( -_-). Now, i've tried doing a data site in high sec. 60k isk worth of positron cords, that's it! I don't even want to know how low it got in nullsec as i used to make even 60 mil/hr. Right. With a small trifle, when the really valuable loot was that 10% that got away. And I don't do them in Tengus, either. Pulled ~7M in highsec yesterday, two sites. So there's that...
I am glad this abomination got abolished.
|
Moth Eisig
Soliloquy Against Death
47
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 13:29:00 -
[496] - Quote
Putka Amelana wrote:! I don't even want to know how low it got in nullsec as i used to make even 60 mil/hr.
I'm probably getting about half that in Guristas null right now, assuming the estimated prices are reliable. Blood Raiders and Sansha were generally much more profitable though, so we'll see what it's like when/if I make it to those regions.
|
James Lawsone
Tactical operations in unknown space
1
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 15:43:00 -
[497] - Quote
snasha and blod raiders 1 relik 20-50 M. Angel and all 1 relik... 7-20 max M.
original snasha and blod raiders 1 relik 70-100 + M Angel and all 1 relik... 20-40 max M.
really not to do the relic harder and profitable, so it is easier to make, at a pace of which will be Fan For as World of Warcraft ...
CCP should change its business plan, instead of pushing away people individually rather to invest efforts and attract new players, we understand that not everyone will understand EVE online, but at a pace a lot of people leave and accrue more ... and neither I nor others definitely do not want to seen in a few years Eve online as dull Free to play game where they run the same kids ...
(translator) |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2382
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 21:47:00 -
[498] - Quote
Did one data site I ran across in high sec, est 10m.
Looks like it is still just luck of the draw every time. -á --á |
Kaliska Ostus
Quovis The Bastion
0
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 16:11:00 -
[499] - Quote
As a fairly new player to Eve with pretty low SP (4.8mil) and living in nullsec, Relic and Data sites are my only source of income...but now life in here has just been nerf'd to hell and back due to the slashing of the loot and sites are not spawning as much as they use too either :/ . We don't even get a look in on the new sites you have put in Hi/Low sec either, so its kind of a double nerf for us out here ! Put it back the way it was..! Up the loot value again, bring back the loot spewing so I can do my job as a hacker and a scout. It was never broken in the first place, you have just listened to all the whingers out there who keep missing the cans with the good stuff in them...guys, you just have to be quicker at it...deal with it ! Thank you CCP for the impending amount of ship-spinning I'll have to do |
Toddfish
Multiplex Gaming The Bastion
17
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 20:24:00 -
[500] - Quote
Very glad that loot spew has been removed. I don't like the decreased value of the sites (due to less loot per can), but I'll pay that price to not deal with clicking all the spew containers (note: pre-Kronos I was getting 80-90% of the valuable items).
Kaliska Ostus wrote:sites are not spawning as much as they use too either I think the spawn rate is similar, just more people are running the sites again. I would often ignore data sites (or just hack a can to start the despawn timer) as I found dealing with loot spew just not worth the effort for low value (large m3) items. I figure others are doing the same... resulting in fewer "stale" sites to be found. |
|
Julian Sandcastle
State War Academy Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 13:05:00 -
[501] - Quote
Not sure of the pre-patch site spawn mechanics, but a lot of flying and testing yesterday suggests that a large number of data sites are the new Contested Guristas facility.
2 non-Gurista data sites, and 1 one relic site in 32 jumps?
I also concur with the observations about decreased loot; 300k from a relic site? Might be hit or miss I've heard other explorers reference.
Edit: Was only testing in hi-sec. |
Lucrii Dei
Vector Galactic The Big Dirty
6
|
Posted - 2014.06.08 22:17:00 -
[502] - Quote
Julian Sandcastle wrote:Not sure of the pre-patch site spawn mechanics, but a lot of flying and testing yesterday suggests that a large number of data sites are the new Contested Guristas facility.
2 non-Gurista data sites, and 1 one relic site in 32 jumps?
I also concur with the observations about decreased loot; 300k from a relic site? Might be hit or miss I've heard other explorers reference.
Edit: Was only testing in hi-sec.
Relic sites in high security space were awful before Kronos and data sites were not much better. I'm about to go and see what's up myself in low-sec and null. Ghost sites are still broken.
From reading other threads about the entire "loot spew" mechanic, I gather that people who have actually stuck with exploration since Odyssey have grown accustomed to the loot spraying and have adapted to it - being able to get the useful items 95% of the time. A steady income rewarded to those that persisted and learned to live with the mechanic. Those that were too lazy to deal with the mechanic complained until it got 'doctored' (fixed is not a word I will use here).
Now there is no loot scatter, those lazy people can go and be entertained for 10 minutes by hacking boards for loot that is now way below average, before getting bored and moving on to something more "efficient". Meanwhile those that actually DO explore regularly have had their primary source of income taken apart and had bugs introduced to ghost sites that remain even after the patch today. GöÇGòó The Explorer I GöÇGòó The Explorer II (Coming Soon!)
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 .. 17 :: [one page] |