Can you explain what's so op with 90% webs when a Bhaalgorn can neut over 3k cap in one cycle with 3 neuts?

Because getting capped out by a Bhaalgorn prevents you from using your guns (if they use cap), it prevents you from MWD'ing, it prevents you from doing anything pretty much while a 90% web can only slow your ship down.

I'm not sure what's more op here actually.

This, pretty much. We might as well turn ALL ships into the same, or very similar ones, with just different skins.

I'm not even sure if you actually think about how ridiculously overpowered the Machariel is going to be against the Vindicator. The only way to have a chance to fight a Machariel in a Vindicator is to use the web. Without the web bonus, the Vindicator will lose to it EVERY single time. PERIOD.

Sure, if the Machariel gets it's speed nerfed as much as the nerf for the Vindicator will be by going from 90% to 60% web strenght, then fine.

So no, if the Machariel doesn't get a massive speed nerf, then no, the web bonus doesn't have to go. Infact, it doesn't even have to go as the main Serpentis bonus is web strenght and DPS, Blood Raider's strenght is web range and neuts, Angel Cartel's strenghts are tracking and speed and Guristas strenghts are drones and shield resists.

So everyone have it's own strenghts.

Just to make a very clear example. Would you or anyone else who use a Machariel accept to remove the speed advantages the Machariel have over other ships for another bonus?

Am I inb4 "selling all my stuff and going back to WoW"?

For a bunch of thug veterans, you children sure do whine a lot.

Why not just... adapt?

though just by looking at the web bonus by its self its a op bonus period.

First off none of these ships even with this bonus are OP at all. The Daredevil isn't anything like it use to be, and can't compete with AFs or interceptors at all, and has issues with other faction ships, so OP nope. The other 2 are rarely even used for PvP, which right there says they aren't OP. What I can't understand with CCP anymore is why you keep fixing things that aren't broke. Leave them be. Fix Rapids, hell look into most missiles, rebalance priate faction ships, etc, but don't fix things that don't need it.
The 90% is nice, but it still has less then 20km even with faction webs, so no matter what you have to get close, and as these ships are slow (beisdes the DD), only someone with some trick up their sleeve or someone not knowing what the ships can do ever get close to them. Only these and blood get that bonus, leave it alone, it's a cool bonus that has been in EVE for a good while with no issues. Just like changing how the Cruifier ,Golem, etc look, why? There is no need to. Get the SoE BS out, make a Cald/Min faction pirate race and you have new ship designs. Stop changing what EVE is. I already know a few people who rarely play now or stopped all together because they believe CCP is going too far with all this, I'm beginning to wonder if they are right.
STOP fixing things that don't need fix and focus on REAL issues.

Another fool...

Read my post above... dude PIRATE SHIPS ARE NOT OK AT ALL. Just because you never ever seen succubus ingame or phantasm. Does not mean those ships are limited edition. THOSE SHIPS NEED LOVE NOW. You don't see them because they are DEEP BELOW standard t1 ships. Yes they are not just medicore. They are obnoxiously bad and probably most broken and most useless hulls in this game.

Pirate rebalance should be priority above all other hulls.

YES FIX THINGS THAT ARE BROKEN(pirate ships) AND IGNORE MINOR ISSUES Thaddeus is talking about.

Can you explain what's so op with 90% webs when a Bhaalgorn can neut over 3k cap in one cycle with 3 neuts?

Because getting capped out by a Bhaalgorn prevents you from using your guns (if they use cap), it prevents you from MWD'ing, it prevents you from doing anything pretty much while a 90% web can only slow your ship down.

I'm not sure what's more op here actually.

Why is so hard for you to understand that the serpentis web bonus make a web 4 TIMES stronger. While the baalghorn bonus makes a neutralizer 75% stronger.

There is a HUGE difference there!

Webs at 90% are much more absolute, specially when combined with superior firepower of serpentis ship. The shisp are not hugely OP, but they clearly have the most sinergetic bonus set !

I don't think the bonus need to be removed. But it could be reduced to 7.5% per level on the vindicator and left alone in the vigilant. The daredevil is harder to emit a precise diagnostics

Let me guess, you have never flown pirate ships like the Vigilant and Vindicator in real PVP like i have?

I bet you have been buttraped and killed by them as you seems kinda butthurt over them.

When you pay over 1 billion isk for the Vindicator, you expect the ship to be very good at something. And as Serpentis ships is all about DPS and applying the DPS, it needs some kind of tool to be able to do that. So, let us hear on how you would change the Serpentis ships and still be able to keep the ships to the root of doing DPS and applying DPS?

EDIT: And what exactly makes a 90% webber at 18 km on a Vindicator more powerfull than a Bhaalgorn webbing you at 60% at 36.4 km?

You are total ******, i'm calling it now. No i actually i raped last rail dd with lol kiting coercer kiting at 19/20km with mwd.
Actually I'm OK WITH STRONG VINDI AS IT IS.
I'm not ok with other pirate ships like Sansha nation mostly to be left as piece of **** you idiot.

Where do you get the 4 times from?

If you take a ship that goes 100 m/s and 90% web it, it will do 10 m/s. Now take a normal 60% web. You will take that 100 m/s ship down to 40 m/s. The 2nd 60% webber will take it down to 16 m/s. A third 60% webber takes it to 6.4 m/s.

So you have to use 2x normal webbers to get to almost the same effects as the 90% webber gets.

Yourself prooved its 4 times dammit!

One makes you go to 10ms other to 40. I wil lhelp you 40/10 -> 4

Yourself prooved its 4 times dammit!

One makes you go to 10ms other to 40. I wil lhelp you 40/10 -> 4

Well first of all, if you have to start calling others for different things here, it's a pretty clear sign that you have lost this discussion.

I lost something - but its patience. In matter of facts i'm winner.

My arguments : Sansha ships are **** - they need buff. Your counterarguments ? COMPLETLY NOONE
Your argument Serpentis ships are strong and they should remain strong. My stance : i'm completly ok with this but bring other pirate ships to this level.

Now yeah i lost PATIENCE, because of ignorant posters like you who would gladly remove Sansha lineup from game.
All you care is some stupid painted megathron called vindicator.
There is more than that - and i fight for all ships to be viable and be real powerful option.

Go away you bugger ... if you would realize what i'm trying to achieve here you would just unsub from this game after realizing your mental impotence.

You don't get math, I see.

You are doing it wrong. You should calculate on how many extra 60% webbers you have to use to gain the same effect as the 90% webbers get, then you can see how many times more it will be.

You can't really say that a 99% web bonus as we had earlier on our Vindicators will be 40 times stronger than a normal 60% web. Also that a ship that does 100 m/s will go to 1 m/s with a 99% webber while the 60% one will take it to 40 m/s.

Do you have experience in flying the different pirate battleships?

If not, you shouldn't really be talking in here.


Anyone who use the different bonuses the different pirate battleships have will never say any of the bonuses the different pirate battleships are overpowered in any ways to each others.

If a Bhaalgorn is fighting a Vindicator, the Bhaalgorn pilot will never complain about the web effect in the same way as i who are in a Vindicator will never complain about the Bhaalgorn raping my cap. And the same goes through all of the pirate battleships. All of the pirate battleships are balanced to each others.

This is the fact. And if you don't like that, then just avoid getting into fights with those ships if you think they are so op.

No.. I am not doing it wrong. Will reiterate my post.

8 is 4 times more than 2. Under your approach it would be 3, because if you divide 8 by 2 for 3 time syou get same value.

A composite series is not same thing as a function. Mathematically 90% web is 4 times strogner than 60% web. If you try to rerpesent in a composite serie sof independent terms you would need only 2 terms repeating. YEat that does nto mean its only 2 times more.

Its simple math, I understand the confusion, but peopel need to realize the difference between the 2 things.

All you talk is vindi this, vindi that . Bhaal this , bhaal that.

AND THAT IS MY FRIGGIN PROBLEM ... there are other ships around who should be equally powerful (but diffrent at same time) AND IT'S NOT CASE.
You are not going to tell me daredevil is on same power level as succubus, or cynabal as strong as phantasm ?

That's what i'm talking about. Surge of power to ships that need it, not nerfing stupid vindicator ... dude WHAT THE HELL you are talking about. Trying to tell me i want something i do not actually is kinda full ****** - and you are surprised i lost my patience ?

In the end you want same thing , that i want. But you just cannot comprehend that. And yes i hate idiots ;/

No, theoretically, it's just 30% stronger, because 90% - 60% = 30% .

You joking your you seriously math challenged? because its hard to get mathematical sarcasm on the internet.

Excuses after excuses. If you don't have experience in flying those ships and don't know how they works in real PVP, then you shouldn't be talking about what's op or not op.

Are you just specs whoring and comparing specs vs specs?

In that case, lol.

"Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
First off none of these ships even with this bonus are OP at all. The Daredevil isn't anything like it use to be, and can't compete with AFs or interceptors at all, and has issues with other faction ships, so OP nope. The other 2 are rarely even used for PvP, which right there says they aren't OP. What I can't understand with CCP anymore is why you keep fixing things that aren't broke. Leave them be. Fix Rapids, hell look into most missiles, rebalance priate faction ships, etc, but don't fix things that don't need it.
The 90% is nice, but it still has less then 20km even with faction webs, so no matter what you have to get close, and as these ships are slow (beisdes the DD), only someone with some trick up their sleeve or someone not knowing what the ships can do ever get close to them. Only these and blood get that bonus, leave it alone, it's a cool bonus that has been in EVE for a good while with no issues. Just like changing how the Cruifier ,Golem, etc look, why? There is no need to. Get the SoE BS out, make a Cald/Min faction pirate race and you have new ship designs. Stop changing what EVE is. I already know a few people who rarely play now or stopped all together because they believe CCP is going too far with all this, I'm beginning to wonder if they are right.
STOP fixing things that don't need fix and focus on REAL issues. "


Another fool...

Read my post above... dude PIRATE SHIPS ARE NOT OK AT ALL. Just because you never ever seen succubus ingame or phantasm. Does not mean those ships are limited edition. THOSE SHIPS NEED LOVE NOW. You don't see them because they are DEEP BELOW standard t1 ships. Yes they are not just medicore. They are obnoxiously bad and probably most broken and most useless hulls in this game.

Pirate rebalance should be priority above all other hulls.

YES FIX THINGS THAT ARE BROKEN(pirate ships) AND IGNORE MINOR ISSUES Thaddeus is talking about.

I made 0 excuses here ... completly 0. I will say more. No fucks are given about your problem with "Naomi Anthar wants vindi nerfed" ... dude you are stupid and problematic fool. No offence actually. That is fact you got some weird imagination that i got problems with some stuff while its not TRUE.

Take drugs off. I'm done.