You originally mentioned that webs are the most OP EWAR out there. I'm pretty sure most people would disagree. Range-bonused webs? Maybe. But you weren't even referring to those.

I'm pretty sure eliminating the opponent's ability to target you in the first place, or activate any tackle on you whatsoever, will win more fights than pure range control. What's range control if you can't even shoot? Talk about lack of reason.

The problem isn't the web bonus. Not at all. The Vindi is one of a small handful of ships that can look a larger fleet in the eye and then black their eyes, in an outright, point blank fight. Not resorting to nano-snipy-crap. A real, go big or go home brawl. It's a very important ship for small -> Mid gang PVP, because it allows the fleets willing and able to use them the ability to take fights they wouldn't otherwise even be able to think about taking.



The problem MIGHT be in the way webs stack, and the price tag. A properly fit Vindicator is an expensive ship. It represents a significant investment of SP, isk, and commitment to a fight. It SHOULD be able to stand up to larger fleets.

But even in that, vindi's can be undone by ECM. They can be damped into nothingness. They can be neuted. They already have a fairly low lock range.. And they're already a BS, they take a while to lock anyway. With their Commitment to their webs, they often do not fit a cap booster, or if they do, certainly not an ECCM or sensor booster. They are slow, slow slow ships. Even with links, faction, and overheat, their effective web range is still less than half the distance ECM or damps could shut a ship down from. If a Vindicator wants to get anywhere on the battlefield, it pretty much HAS to MWD. That MWD+ a few TP's are going to make it's signature radius absolutely huge. So Even TP's are effective on vindi's, though not as 'right now' effective as just jamming it, still effective.


There is just no reason to change this.

Dev's are saying 'oh well you don't have to lose your minds....'

Well how many pages did we have to get through on the gallente BS thread before Dev's listened when we said a 6 low 5 midslot Megathron was a bad idea.... How long is the marauders thread?

Last I checked, the whole point of F & I forum section was to discuss features and ideas.

Well... CCP has floated the idea of removing the serpentis web bonus.

The community is responding by and large with a resounding 'NO.'

We don't WANT every ship to be a drake with a different skin. You guys did well with the Frigates and cruisers... but since those it's kinda been mis step after mis step.



This change will really really hurt the small to midsize alliances, in particularly in low sec. We rely on our Vindicators and pirate/faction BS to fight people who would otherwise just bury us under drakes. Those are some of our most important ships for counter blob warfare. It's not because they are ridiculously OP Nerf pls! It's because they are well designed, role specific ships that we have to be very selective about when we field and do not field, because they are a significant commitment in isk and material to a fight. Taking those ships out of our arsenal is pretty much going to guarantee that the bigger blob always wins.

Please stop nerfbatting everything that is decent and replacing it with a fall off/trackingfire rate and MWD signature reduction bonus.

Variety, is a very, very good thing.





My opinion anyway....

Dominix vs Rattlesnake
Both are drone boats, One of them has better tank, better dps, basically better everything, and it also cost more, alot more
pay to win ?

Not my fault you cannot grasp concepts that are not rubbed direclty into your face.

90% is the only reason people fly this ship. Even 8%, or 9% per level, makes these ships ABSOLUTELY USELESS.

I think that point has been made repeatedly, over and over, by multiple people. There are always going to be a few dissenters who oppose this point, but I think the point has been made, and I hope CCP listens.

Why would they be useless with an 87% web instead of a 90% one?

In no way that weould maek them absolutely useless.

If the bonus was 8% per level, the web would reduce a 1km/s ship to 260 m/s It would still be very very powerful. Would hurt the vindicator more than the devil because the vindicator would not be able to instant blap frigates hitting for 100% of damage.

Not being OP is not same as being useless. If webs were useles at that level then no one would use normal webs on other ships.

Also A lot of peopel use serpentis ship more due to the damage than due to web.

Also, if the web bonus from the Vindicator gets removed, then what advantage does the Vindicator have against the other pirate battleships?

The new bonus yet undisclosed to replace th e onld one?

Because I am yet to see anyone claiming ccp would make the vindicator be the only pirate ship with 2 bonuses only.

The only new bonus i can see it will get if the web bonus is getting removed is to get even more damage bonuses as the Vindicator is focused around DPS and to apply DPS. And if that's the case then, it will need at least 20% more damage output. Hopefully it will have around 25% more damage then.

Because going from 90% to 60% web strenght is a HUGE deal on how good the Vindicator can apply it's damage.

The new bonus yet undisclosed to replace th e onld one?

Because I am yet to see anyone claiming ccp would make the vindicator be the only pirate ship with 2 bonuses only.

I'm ok with this nerf as long as they give something to buff it as a tradeoff.
Something neat like a Serpentis unique module that projects a spike out of the hull and impales the enemy ship holding it into place.

He's also introducing a hidden penalty that Serpentis ships can only ever fit one web.

I think there's a couple of problems with you OP, but I can see that there's a bit of confusion stemming from how quickly the question got answered in a AMA format.

I'll start by confirming that some kind of change to the Serpentis and Blood Raider web bonus is something we have been thinking about for a while.

Web strength bonuses are some of the most powerful bonuses available to any ship, which makes them very interesting and valuable but also makes some of their results problematic. Interestingly, the way the strength of the bonus presents itself is very different in different contexts. At the frigate level with the Daredevil, the power of 90% webs primarily comes from range control. At the battleship level with the Vindicator it primarily comes from transversal control (especially when used as a force multiplier). At the cruiser level it falls in the middle and ends up being (relatively speaking) less powerful and less oppressive as a result.
I am not going to try to claim that we have our plan of action worked out, and there will be plenty of discussion before we implement our Pirate ship balance pass.

One thing I can say for sure though is that we consider the solo Daredevil and the force multiplier Vindicator to both be too strong in their current states, and that we recognize that the primary source of their disproportionate power is the web bonus (for different reasons as I said above).

Another thing I can say for sure is that we will never base our design decisions on what Nyancat has stockpiled or not stockpiled.

but it seems like the bonus is just pure op.

but it seems like the bonus is just pure op.