the sky blotted out with them

I genuinely lol'd at that. Thanks for brightening up my day. It was a joke right? I mean, no EvE player would threaten to rage quit because a couple of OP ships are at some point going to be rebalanced somehow... right???

Why do they in particular need to do that? I think you're bad.

These are more significant in small/microgangs because of the ability to hold targets (eg. Logi) on field and allow small gangs to work their way up to an equal DPS distribution. The same does not apply to large gangs with plenty of webs, scram, and tackle ALREADY.

You have obviously never flown either of the ships or you would understand why 7.5% is not enough.

The web bonus is just fine because of two things:

1) The price you actually pay for the ship with the bonus

2)The fact, that these ships still only comes with tech I resists.


I do not see a situation where the web bonus is overpowered! Are you thinking solo PvP? Because most of the time, solo'er gets blobbed anyway!

-1 for a change to Serpentis web bonus

Stasis Webifier II range: 10km
Target Painter II range: 45+90km

Let me ask you a question: which ship takes over Serpentis' role of ultimate brawlers? Note that unlike navy ships, pirate ships always bring something unique to the table.

I don't mind the rebalance - in fact, if you'll check my past comments, you'll notice that I supported a vast majority of them, Marauders and RML changes included. What I do mind is complete removal of webs, because there is no ship line in game that does what those ships do (anymore). Serpentis ships right now are the go-to choice for the ultimate close range brawling, with a bonus to closest range weapon in game, a tracking bonus AND a web to ensure that their close range dps is applied and overwhelming. However, they also have a clear weakness: they're not the fastest boats around and as soon as something starts kiting them, they have a serious problem.

The problem is, with web removal, that role is gone. For instance, a Vindicator without the web is little more than a bigger brother to Navy Megathron, a clear departure from the current pirate lineup. It would be like turning Machariel into a more powerful Fleet Tempest or Rattlesnake into Raven Pirate Issue. Note that role change itself isn't a problem, we've had many in the past. However, in the vast majority, those changes added to the game, rather than took from it. For instance, a Cyclone change hurt a lot of people, but there was still the Hurricane to take over its old role. Marauder changes are unpopular, but it's fine because their old roles are still there, more or less. Even the recent RLM changes, while hurting a lot of cruiser lovers, are a good thing, because they return HMs to the field, increase the relative presence of Corax and introduce a different (albeit currently unpopular) playstyle.

What does removal of webs from Serpentis ships add? Nothing at all. If 90% webs are overpowered, nerf them by half, add a propulsion that's immune to them, remove the range bonus from faction webs, whatever. That would still be fine, because it still keeps those ships' roles. But as soon as webs are gone, so too is the ships' unique feature and an entire role dies.

That, my friend, is why I disagree with the change and that is why I said what I said.

You have obviously no clue on what we do , otherwise you would know how many DD we use.

And We do think that 90% web its overpowered.

Even the recent RLM changes, while hurting a lot of cruiser lovers, are a good thing, because they return HMs to the field

Ah, nice to see you finally admit that the Paladin was indeed ruined for Incursions.
Before, it was the standard lie "oh no, the ship will be fine, you have to adapt".

They do not losoe the ultimate brwler title. They still do more damage than ANY other ship. if the web bonus is reduced that would still keep them completely in control of that title.

Minmatar recons have bonuses to both forms of ewar, and similar ranges on both when fit appropriately.

"Hmmm yes I will fit target painters on my pvp rapier rather than webs" said no one ever

Are you actively trying to ruin incursions for everyone step by step? Wasn't it enough to nerf booster efficiency, make most ships except pirate battleships quite useless for incursions, even marauders? Now you consider nerfing Vindicator web efficiency bonuses on top of all? The Vindi has been hit badly enough by the reduced web ranges due to booster changes.

To me this feels like you continue considering ships only in terms of PvP over PvE and just steamrolling ahead with your "vision" without concern for pilots who play the game differently from how you want them to play it. Very sad!

Tell me, how is it overpowered? A squishy ship that could be permajammed by a Griffin, absolutely destroyed by a solo Crucifier, murdered by a Keres, and utterly disabled by a Hyena? A Tech 1 ship with Tech 1 resists that can barely fit any tank, and when hit, turns into an expensive boom?

If anything, these ships help small gangs get on equal footing with large gangs. If that makes it overpowered for you, then I guess we're done here.

But the great thing about these modules & ships is that it does not work in reverse - large gangs already have plenty of webs, Raipiers, tackle, etc, so it does not help them overpower small gangs at all.

They are clearly balancing around skirmish links, they've been doing it for awhile.

RLMLs were literally the largest viable missile system because links make the damage application of HML, HAM, Cruise, and Torps complete crap. So, RLMLs got nerfed.

90% webs at 10km/15km overloaded aren't a problem, 90% faction webs with links at 19km/25km overloaded really kind of are.

I own several ships that do quite a bit more dps than Vindicators.

You guys really don't need to lose your minds so far ahead of time.

We haven't said anything specific about any of this and that's because we aren't actually making any changes yet. Webs might change some, they might not. We have to put in time actually looking at the problem and go through a process before we have something concrete to ask for feedback on.

Reduce base web strength to 30% and make it so that from multiple webs on target only best one would apply. K, thx.

And seriously, webs are in need of much more powerful nerf than minor bonus change. They are really a bane of EVE and killing most of creative combat maneuvering that was proven in nanoship age: while high ship speeds were indeed stupid dynamic combat flourished at that time because of high ship inertia used to make it possible to counter webs somehow.

raper

You guys really don't need to lose your minds so far ahead of time.

We haven't said anything specific about any of this and that's because we aren't actually making any changes yet. Webs might change some, they might not. We have to put in time actually looking at the problem and go through a process before we have something concrete to ask for feedback on.

Obviously I meant in its class. Not theoretical raw dps. Fleet typhoon with torpedoes is a very illusory dps for example.

Serpentis are the most effective appliers of DPS at close range.

They are clearly balancing around skirmish links, they've been doing it for awhile.

RLMLs were literally the largest viable missile system because links make the damage application of HML, HAM, Cruise, and Torps complete crap. So, RLMLs got nerfed.

90% webs at 10km/15km overloaded aren't a problem, 90% faction webs with links at 19km/25km overloaded really kind of are.

A little early to cry about a nerf, don't you think?

Different is not always worse... if 90% web is removed from the game, it's still entirely likely that the pirate ships will all have something worthwhile.