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Sticky:[Rubicon 1.1] Sisters of EVE Battleship

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 15 post(s)
Sniper Smith Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 15	Posted - 2013.12.04 01:20:00 - [301] - Quote Explorer Eriker wrote: As others have stated, who would risk a billion ISK ship in a wormhole without a covert ops cloak? Back to the drawing board CCP Rise. Cause there are no BS's to be found in WH's now.. It's not getting a CovOps Cloak.. Ever. Covops BS would be Broken.. We don't need gangs of CovOps BS's roaming around low and null.
Onictus Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension 620	Posted - 2013.12.04 01:23:00 - [302] - Quote Sniper Smith wrote: Explorer Eriker wrote: As others have stated, who would risk a billion ISK ship in a wormhole without a covert ops cloak? Back to the drawing board CCP Rise. Cause there are no BS's to be found in WH's now.. It's not getting a CovOps Cloak.. Ever. Covops BS would be Broken.. We don't need gangs of CovOps BS's roaming around low and null. Considering how long you have to fish out a BS before it warps AND that it can't cloak locked that argument is honestly crap. Particularly in this case where the ship has a defined choice between tank and gank, there are only 6 lows, you CAN'T armor tank it to any real level and get any real damage out of it.
Rain6637 Team Evil 6333	Posted - 2013.12.04 01:23:00 - [303] - Quote oh god it's real Rainfleet on Twitch
Godfrey Silvarna Frozen Dawn Inc Arctic Light 114	Posted - 2013.12.04 01:27:00 - [304] - Quote Meh. Armageddon and Bhaalgorn will still be the only useful battleships in Wormholes. I like the idea though, but even a half-mass battleship needs to do something that cruisers can not in order to be worth it, like the neut boats mentioned above do.
Onictus Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension 620	Posted - 2013.12.04 01:30:00 - [305] - Quote Godfrey Silvarna wrote: Meh. Armageddon and Bhaalgorn will still be the only useful battleships in Wormholes. I like the idea though, but even a half-mass battleship needs to do something that cruisers can not DO BETTER n order to be worth it, like the neut boats mentioned above do. FTFU Really it either needs to be a black ops or a full on logi, this mix is a mess.
BeanBagKing Aperture Harmonics No Holes Barred 255	Posted - 2013.12.04 01:31:00 - [306] - Quote Sniper Smith wrote: Explorer Eriker wrote: As others have stated, who would risk a billion ISK ship in a wormhole without a covert ops cloak? Back to the drawing board CCP Rise. Cause there are no BS's to be found in WH's now.. It's not getting a CovOps Cloak.. Ever. Covops BS would be Broken.. We don't need gangs of CovOps BS's roaming around low and null. There are, but why use this one (which estimates show will cost 2x as much) over one of those? Furthermore, why use it (or those) instead of a T3? His point wasn't that there aren't any, but few people use the current ones, especially for exploration/sites. If they do there are cheaper/better options. To your other point, IMO that points to broken cloaking mechanics (or lack of a counter specifically), but that's another discussion. Personally I don't really care what they make this ship, just as long as it's one thing and not 4. If it is exploration though, it needs a cloak, or some kind of black ops speed modifier. IDK, I'm no balance expert, but I can tell you that this, in it's current form, isn't worth the price.
Rain6637 Team Evil 6333	Posted - 2013.12.04 01:34:00 - [307] - Quote ho ho ho just make it white and wear something tight Rainfleet on Twitch
Wulfy Johnson NorCorp Security 12	Posted - 2013.12.04 01:36:00 - [308] - Quote Strange nobody has pointed out that a carrier will be cheaper and outclass this strange thing in any worthwhile objektive.
Onictus Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension 620	Posted - 2013.12.04 01:39:00 - [309] - Quote Wulfy Johnson wrote: Strange nobody has pointed out that a carrier will be cheaper and outclass this strange thing in any worthwhile objektive. That was a given. I noted that the at the price they listed the LP alone for a BPC is worth about 1.1 bil, more when the new ship lemmings are willing to buy the BPCs at ridiculous prices.
BeanBagKing Aperture Harmonics No Holes Barred 255	Posted - 2013.12.04 01:42:00 - [310] - Quote Wulfy Johnson wrote: Strange nobody has pointed out that a carrier will be cheaper and outclass this strange thing in any worthwhile objektive. BeanBagKing wrote: [...] The pricetag given current LP prices is somewhere around 2.2 bil (source reddit: if you disagree do the math, I'm lazy). For 2.2 bil it'll cost as much as a slowcat, so you might as well field a fleet of those.[...]
Rain6637 Team Evil 6333	Posted - 2013.12.04 01:44:00 - [311] - Quote yeah, the part about it being popular in wormholes is disappointing to hear from CCP Rise, but it's a start. I'm all for new ships. even if it had the mass of an ishtar i'd still use an ishtar. no way it's worth 2.2B, maybe 750m Rainfleet on Twitch
Onictus Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension 620	Posted - 2013.12.04 01:47:00 - [312] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: yeah, the part about it being popular in wormholes is disappointing to hear from CCP Rise, but it's a start. I'm all for new ships. even if it had the mass of an ishtar i'd still use an ishtar. no way it's worth 2.2B, maybe 750m At 600,000LP for the BPC good luck getting anyone to take that to market at 750, I can turn over a LOT more isk/LP sell probes, and they are a hell of a lot easier to move around.
Seranova Farreach Lion Squadron 465	Posted - 2013.12.04 01:50:00 - [313] - Quote all the whine about "no covert ops cloak" i bet its just nullbears who are too paranoid by cloakies :P
Onictus Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension 620	Posted - 2013.12.04 01:51:00 - [314] - Quote Seranova Farreach wrote: all the whine about "no covert ops cloak" i bet its just nullbears who are too paranoid by cloakies :P I'd rather see it be a real battleship class logistics ship...but really scanning bonus? on a battleship? What the hell do you do with that?
BeanBagKing Aperture Harmonics No Holes Barred 255	Posted - 2013.12.04 01:51:00 - [315] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: no way it's worth 2.2B, maybe 750m I want to see the math. 2.2 seems to me a bit high, maybe it's taking into account market markup? 750 is WAY low though.
Rain6637 Team Evil 6336	Posted - 2013.12.04 01:54:00 - [316] - Quote 750m is my personal appraisal. 2.2B sounds correct-ish, considering the BPC costs are 5x those of the Stratios Nestor... it's the new BS BS... get it Rainfleet on Twitch
Seranova Farreach Lion Squadron 465	Posted - 2013.12.04 01:54:00 - [317] - Quote the LP/cost needs to be in line with other faction/pirate ships/BPCs.
Rain6637 Team Evil 6336	Posted - 2013.12.04 01:55:00 - [318] - Quote SOE LP is high like their stations are rare oh i see what you mean, price wise? Rainfleet on Twitch
Onictus Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension 621	Posted - 2013.12.04 01:56:00 - [319] - Quote BeanBagKing wrote: Rain6637 wrote: no way it's worth 2.2B, maybe 750m I want to see the math. 2.2 seems to me a bit high, maybe it's taking into account market markup? 750 is WAY low though. You can turn 2000isk/LP for sisters probes on the low end, 3k/LP is more around the average I was being conservative at 1.1 bil, the stratios is getting around 2000-2500 (or was last time I sold one) off of the BPC if you built the ship. Eitherway, the price on these from a 600,000 LP base is going to be astonomical, and it will STAY there because if if drops the SOE farmers will go back to selling probes, and astero/stratios BPC and implants and the market will choke. .....this thing isn't worth the price in LP much less the minerals to build it. It doesn't even look good on paper.
Seranova Farreach Lion Squadron 465	Posted - 2013.12.04 01:59:00 - [320] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: SOE LP is high like their stations are rare not that rare.. hell there is even the newbie SOE station as the start of the blood stained stars
Seranova Farreach Lion Squadron 465	Posted - 2013.12.04 02:02:00 - [321] - Quote Onictus wrote: BeanBagKing wrote: Rain6637 wrote: no way it's worth 2.2B, maybe 750m I want to see the math. 2.2 seems to me a bit high, maybe it's taking into account market markup? 750 is WAY low though. You can turn 2000isk/LP for sisters probes on the low end, 3k/LP is more around the average I was being conservative at 1.1 bil, the stratios is getting around 2000-2500 (or was last time I sold one) off of the BPC if you built the ship. Eitherway, the price on these from a 600,000 LP base is going to be astonomical, and it will STAY there because if if drops the SOE farmers will go back to selling probes, and astero/stratios BPC and implants and the market will choke. .....this thing isn't worth the price in LP much less the minerals to build it. It doesn't even look good on paper. thats some good information. just seems the SOE ships are just LP sinks then
Onictus Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension 621	Posted - 2013.12.04 02:02:00 - [322] - Quote Seranova Farreach wrote: Rain6637 wrote: SOE LP is high like their stations are rare not that rare.. hell there is even the newbie SOE station as the start of the blood stained stars There are three high sec stations, that is what everyone is making that assumption from, SOE stations are hardly rare there are three I thing in Rens alone, level 4 security agents are in Forge, Genesis, and Metro for highsec, there are a few few low sec around, but if you want to try running missions in Aeschee have fun with that, you are more brave than I.
Ish Eistiras Shrubbery Acquisitions Blohm and Voss Shipyards Alliance 1	Posted - 2013.12.04 02:04:00 - [323] - Quote BeanBagKing wrote: Rain6637 wrote: no way it's worth 2.2B, maybe 750m I want to see the math. 2.2 seems to me a bit high, maybe it's taking into account market markup? 750 is WAY low though. Its more a matter of what it COSTS I would agree that the current iteration is not WORTH 2.2B I would really like the SoE ship line changed to boats with +50% drone effectiveness as their role bonus. All of them drop the turrets and just be a line of 'utility high' ships. Having that theme across the entire line of hulls would make them unique within the ship lines, more then that though I feel all these bonuses should be drones only, and only the base +50% galante bonus would apply to sentries. That would give the SoE line the distinction of being primarily DRONE drone boats, leave sentry to things like the domi/ishtar. This way the Nestor gets drone damage and heavy drone tracking/velocity, you can sentry if you want to, but its primary setup would be flying in, webbing targets while dpsing with just the heavy drones while being in range to remote rep them as required.
CptBipto Super Moose Defence Force Mortem Sigil 7	Posted - 2013.12.04 02:04:00 - [324] - Quote meh
Rain6637 Team Evil 6338	Posted - 2013.12.04 02:07:00 - [325] - Quote I'm thinking it'll look great in a hangar though buying hull outright @ 3k/LP from The Sanctuary: 800k * 3k + 80mil = 2.48B " " " " the BPC: 400k * 3k + 100mil = 1.3B as for the build cost and whatnot, i have no idea, but 3k/LP is a pretty good baseline as long as other SOE items net 3k/LP what am I missing here would that remote repair bonus apply to cap transfer.... and neuts/nos? or strictly shield/armor transfers Rainfleet on Twitch
Onictus Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension 623	Posted - 2013.12.04 02:07:00 - [326] - Quote Ish Eistiras wrote: BeanBagKing wrote: Rain6637 wrote: no way it's worth 2.2B, maybe 750m I want to see the math. 2.2 seems to me a bit high, maybe it's taking into account market markup? 750 is WAY low though. Its more a matter of what it COSTS I would agree that the current iteration is not WORTH 2.2B . I agree its a mixed up disaster currently. There is really nothing going for it.
Sheeana Harb Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact 2	Posted - 2013.12.04 02:11:00 - [327] - Quote Hello CCP Rise! CCP Rise wrote: Do you feel you need added range to be able to run PVE content, or just to PVP, or both? As a regular incursion runner in a logi ship, I would take added range over amount every single time. Reasoning: no matter how much you repair for, it is worthless if your target is out of the repping range. That said, I also think rep range is more important in PvP, since PvE content is more predictable and players can position themselves prior an encounter and/or know what to expect most of the time. PvP is a lot more 'volatile' and 8k4 rep range is nowhere near enough since your rep targets can have different purposes on a battlefield and easily fly(or be bumped) away from you. As an example, carriers would be valued a lot less(in both PvP and PvE) if they had no rep range bonuses. CCP Rise wrote: Are you asking for bonus to amount AND bonus to range or bonus to range INSTEAD of amount? Not sure when it gets to sisi but there will be plenty of time before release to play with it. Is it unreasonable(=overpowered) to ask for both? As I stated above, I would always take rep range over the extra amount, but on the other hand, if it was just an extra range, would the ship repair for enought to be considered fit for the role? I would love to see both range and amount, to keep the ship viable as a logi platform given the high expected cost. How about an extra range and reduced remote armor repair cycle(instead of flat +%amount)? Reduced cycling would put extra pressure on capacitor, forcing players to make trade-offs. Even if it means loosing for example virus strength bonus, which I view as useless for the current exploration sites content. Stratios / T3s can already run exploration sites(including ghost ones) with great success and Nestor seems to be too expensive and slow for this role. To be fair and taking a step back, Nestor looks like a ship that is trying to be useful in many situations (wormholes, logistics, exploration sites, laser turret combat) and ending up being good at none of them. For wormholes, it can't fit covert ops cloak and doesn't have black ops cloaked speed bonus, making it an easy target. Also only armor resistance bonuses limits Nestor to armor tanking focused wormholes. For logistics, the lack of range will cause a lot of frustration and lost ships, since it's too easy to drift away from 8km range. For exploration sites, the ship is too bulky and slow (=low warp speed, align time or just a battleship velocity, given how far away containers are in both Data and Relic sites) and less expensive ships, Stratios and T3s, can perform better. Laser turret damage seems redundant since the ship can already fit a full fleet of bonused sentries/heavy drones as the main source of damage. It would go a long way if the laser turret damage was replaced with remote shield repair amount and range bonus.
Rain6637 Team Evil 6338	Posted - 2013.12.04 02:11:00 - [328] - Quote if they're going to use the RP of "SOE assists people" wouldn't cap transfer count... and is there a way to separate neuts/nos from the capacitor emission skill, cuz i'm thinking not ok, as a bhaalgorn/domi hybrid with that mass it might have a role in wormholes note to CCP: By Bhaalgorn I mean as a neuting battleship for neuting capital ships. Rainfleet on Twitch
GetSirrus Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 66	Posted - 2013.12.04 02:19:00 - [329] - Quote CCP Rise, this is yet another ship with Magnetometic sensors. This is already shared with the Serpentis and ORE factions. Which in turn makes the Magnetometric Sensor Comp skill more valuable than the other Comp skills. Possible to make it Radar instead. (it will also annoy falcon pilots).
Onictus Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension 623	Posted - 2013.12.04 02:23:00 - [330] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: We can certainly discuss this amount vs range thing. Can you guys help me out saying specifically in relation to it: Do you feel you need added range to be able to run PVE content, or just to PVP, or both? Are you asking for bonus to amount AND bonus to range or bonus to range INSTEAD of amount? Not sure when it gets to sisi but there will be plenty of time before release to play with it. Well with large reppers you are talking an 8.4km range. That barely reaches across a warp bubble, no cap bonus, so you aren't going to fill the highs and a BATTLESHIP scan res, seriously you listed the scan res at a whopping 84, that is less than a base Dominix speed locker that it is. Factoring pilot bonuses my Thanny has a 184 scan res with the triage mod off ........we are supposed to REP with that? Come now. That is a bit ridiculous.

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