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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Seranova Farreach
Lion Squadron
461
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Posted - 2013.12.03 22:22:00 -
[211] - Quote
it seems to me that the more i read the more people are thinking of the nestor as a pvp ship and spouting responces in a pvp mindset. |
Seranova Farreach
Lion Squadron
461
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Posted - 2013.12.03 22:24:00 -
[212] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Seranova Farreach wrote:i can only see this being useful for nullsec ghost sites, drones for spreading aggro after your buffer gets blammed. nothing more. You've never run ghost sites then. they have large aoe dmg when the timer on warpin runs out. so soon as your hit with the aoe, drop the drones |
Rena Senn
Resurrection Ventures Un.Bound
82
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Posted - 2013.12.03 22:24:00 -
[213] - Quote
Feels a bit bland to be honest. The scanning and hacking bonuses don't make much sense to me since I doubt people will often using a 1.4b+ base hull non cov-ops capable battleship as their main prober or explorer when many other cheaper and more mobile role bonused cloaky ships can do it just as well and with far less risk. The low mass is interesting but offers little advantage to sentry deployment, and its 6 lows means it's actually worse at mixing an armor tank and drone damage mods than an armageddon, which just seems wrong. Throw in the lack of an RR range bonus on top of that and it's looking to be a vastly overpriced curio addition to an already crowded field of 125 bandwidth drone battleships. It's lack of cyno jumping ability or other new gameplay mechanics means it'll probably be limited to act as a middle of the road wormhole brawler/logi combo for smaller corps who can't regularly scrounge up the numbers for guardian support, which seems way too niche a role to justify the development time that must have gone into this thing.
TL;DR I hope CCP goes for something more daring. |
Seranova Farreach
Lion Squadron
461
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Posted - 2013.12.03 22:25:00 -
[214] - Quote
Berluth Luthian wrote:Also, gift for incursion runners? itll be bad for incursions. |
BeanBagKing
Aperture Harmonics No Holes Barred
253
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Posted - 2013.12.03 22:26:00 -
[215] - Quote
Seranova Farreach wrote:it seems to me that the more i read the more people are thinking of the nestor as a pvp ship and spouting responces in a pvp mindset. I think it -could- be, I think part of the problem is that everyone is assuming different things though. It's supposed to be an exploration ship, it's supposed to be a group pve ship, it's supposed to be a pvp ship, it's supposed to be a mini-carrier! Nobody really knows because the bonuses and roles given make it half-arse at doing 2-3 things instead of one thing really good. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
220
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Posted - 2013.12.03 22:27:00 -
[216] - Quote
Please go back to the drawing board. This is just plain incoherent and awful. |
Epiphany Achura
Federation Clone Services LTD.
5
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Posted - 2013.12.03 22:27:00 -
[217] - Quote
CCP Rise,
a couple of things:
I agree with those who are saying it needs a Rep range bonus. I also like the idea that someone had posted suggesting a range buff to the entire line of modules.
With respect to no Cov op, while I agree I was considering how it might work if you allowed the ship to have one but imposed a cloaking "time penalty" where there is a delay between activating the cloak and the module being able to cloak the entire battleship leaving te ship vulnerable during this short window (no mods activated), say 3-5 seconds. Not sure what if anything that would do but it seems logical thy a specialized cloaking device might struggle with instantly cloaking a BS sized object. |
Thaddeus Eggeras
TwoTenX LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
125
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Posted - 2013.12.03 22:33:00 -
[218] - Quote
Might want to look at 7H, 5M, 7L. And again I don't see a real reason for the repairer, might be better to get it a velocity while cloaked bonus, kind of like the one blackops get |
Andrea Keuvo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
54
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Posted - 2013.12.03 22:33:00 -
[219] - Quote
Rena Senn wrote:Feels a bit bland to be honest. The scanning and hacking bonuses don't make much sense to me since I doubt people will often using a 1.4b+ base hull non cov-ops capable battleship as their main prober or explorer when many other cheaper and more mobile role bonused cloaky ships can do it just as well and with far less risk. The low mass is interesting but offers little advantage to sentry deployment, and its 6 lows means it's actually worse at mixing an armor tank and drone damage mods than an armageddon, which just seems wrong. Throw in the lack of an RR range bonus on top of that and it's looking to be a vastly overpriced curio addition to an already crowded field of 125 bandwidth drone battleships. It's lack of cyno jumping ability or other new gameplay mechanics means it'll probably be limited to act as a middle of the road wormhole brawler/logi combo for smaller corps who can't regularly scrounge up the numbers for guardian support, which seems way too niche a role to justify the development time that must have gone into this thing.
TL;DR I hope CCP goes for something more daring.
Agreed, given what the price tag will be I cannot think of a single use for this ship that can't be done better by Domi/Navy Domi/Ishtar or a T3. Fail, try again CCP |
Phoenix Jones
The Scope Gallente Federation
278
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Posted - 2013.12.03 22:35:00 -
[220] - Quote
Seranova Farreach wrote:it seems to me that the more i read the more people are thinking of the nestor as a pvp ship and spouting responces in a pvp mindset.
We all want a ship that someone will actually consider taking out in combat. The life of Eve is PVP. The money in Eve is from PVE.
The PVE is boring, but currently the only use of this ship is for PVE purposes, and mostly nobody would bother risking it in those PVE purposes.
It needs a role and an identity. Outside of my idea it needs to have a reason to bring in combat. Billion isk sentry boat.. we have that. both PVP and PVE iterations.
Why bring this ship? So yes alot of us are asking for a PVP capable ship that is worth it for people to actually bring.
There is a huge jump currently when it comes to logistic ships (remote repairing ships). It goes from Cruiser, to Carrier, with the Dominix thrown somewhere in the middle (call it the fake logi ship). Currently there is 0 truly capable repairing battleships out there that could be credibly fielded. This ship has the potential to be the first. The capability of being on the field repairing wayward ships, while not being completely alpha'd off the field in 1 go? A logistics ship with a battleship tank, and the mobility to be useful. Not a bad ship setup.
CCP basically threw us three ships with the Nestor and they are asking us... which would you want?
A) A logistics ship B) and exploration ship C) A combat ship.
You can have one or two options, but not all three.
Personally, I'd perfer a logistics battleship because we do not have one. We have lots of combat battleships, but realistically 0 logistics battleships.
This could open up new and good potential gameplay if the ship is good enough to warrant the pricetag. Being a logistics ship, you can play with the ship's spec's more than you can with a pure combat vessel.
As a logistics battleship, it won't replace the logistics cruisers, can sit on the field MUCH longer than the logistics cruisers due to its tank, can actually participate in DPS in degrees due to drones, can potentially repair more burst damage than the logistics cruisers as the battleship repairs 50% MORE, but does not encroach on the capital ships repair amounts.
What people want is a ship that they can take into combat. A logistics ship that can "hang" in a medium to large battle, can "hold the field", can "jump a stargate without a cyno".....
Yes this ships primary role should be logistics. Aka, a spacepriest that is good enough to take out into the field because it'll be worth it to keep the gang up. Stabbers are totally broken
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15116553
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Circumstantial Evidence
91
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Posted - 2013.12.03 22:38:00 -
[221] - Quote
That shuttle bay! Give it a special ship hanger, able to carry one fully fit Astero
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To mare
Advanced Technology
277
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Posted - 2013.12.03 22:39:00 -
[222] - Quote
the only thing that interest me about this ship is a possible return of a nanodominix
6turrets bonus to probe and bonus to RR with 7 highs will be a hell of a compromise. 6med and 6 low on a armor tanking BS its not really good (see ex hype) for what i see CCP is trying to give the ship too many roles: dps, flexible tank, esploration, RR, hacking. make a choice and make the ship good in 1-2 things not mediocre at 4-5 |
Seranova Farreach
Lion Squadron
461
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Posted - 2013.12.03 22:40:00 -
[223] - Quote
Roime wrote:That is a very nice ship for wormhole PVE, gj.
Perhaps in 2015 we will get battleships designed for PVP.
drones are bad for Wspace pve with out TP and WEB support |
Sofia Wolf
Ubuntu Inc. The Fourth District
272
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Posted - 2013.12.03 22:40:00 -
[224] - Quote
I would advise against adding range bonus to remote reps. Fleet of those could get insane spider tanking capability with all the free highslots, reaping bonus and resistance bonuses. Essentially we are getting BS sized slowcats here. Keeping remote rep range small helps people to use bumping to break those spider tanks, stops spider tank from being able to be establish immediately after jumping the gate or wormhole, and makes them more vulnerable to bombing runs. This ship needs those counters, else it could become too powerful. Jessica Danikov > EVE is your real life. the rest is fantasy. caught in a corporation. no escape from banality. open up yours eyes, peer through pod good and seeeeeee. I'm just a poor pilot, I need no sympathy. because I'm easy scam, easy go, little isk, little know. anyway the solar wind blows... |
Eko Fromtv
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
92
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Posted - 2013.12.03 22:41:00 -
[225] - Quote
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:That shuttle bay! Give it a special ship hanger, able to carry one fully fit Astero
Quoted for truth!
(Ice) Miner for life. |
Thaddeus Eggeras
TwoTenX LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
125
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Posted - 2013.12.03 22:42:00 -
[226] - Quote
To mare,
I agree. Too many bonuses. Don't give it a repair bonus. Og with either 7H, 5M, 7L or 6H, 6M, 7L |
Galvis Kester
Rising from the Chaos
1
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Posted - 2013.12.03 22:43:00 -
[227] - Quote
SOE Admiral - Hey SOE Engineer! We need a Battleship!
SOE Engineer - Umm.. ok. What do you need the Battleship to do?
SOE Admiral - Well it should be able go explore, do search and rescue operations, and support the Statios and Astero in dangerous territories. Use the same cloaking technology as the Statios and Astero has.
SOE Engineer - You mean the ingenious but cryptic transfer in part of the warp core functionality to the outlying cylindrical structure, allowing it to run certain higher-level cloaking functions with very little technical cost, and minimal interference from warp.
SOE Admiral - Yeah that one.
A month or so later....
SOE Engineer - Here is the battleship... she looks nice huh..
SOE Admiral - Yes she does? What can she do?
SOE Engineer - She can remote repair along with good drone, scanning, relic & hacking abilities. We wanted to give it the ability to jump to cynos or use a covert cloak but CCP Rise wouldn't allow it, so we added lazers instead.
SOE Admiral - So your telling me that my exploration ship that is supposed to go to dangerous territories, wont be able to make it more than 2 jumps into null before being killed? AND WHAT THE HELL IS THE POINT OF THE CYLINDRICAL WINGS ON THE SHIP IF IT DOESN'T HAVE A COVERT CLOAK!!!!
SOE Engineer - (Trembling) they look cool so we kept them...? |
Thaddeus Eggeras
TwoTenX LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
125
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Posted - 2013.12.03 22:44:00 -
[228] - Quote
Still want to see what it looks like. what about looking into Rapid launchers and heavies? And Cald/Min faction pirate ships? |
BeanBagKing
Aperture Harmonics No Holes Barred
253
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Posted - 2013.12.03 22:44:00 -
[229] - Quote
Sofia Wolf wrote:I would advise against adding range bonus to remote reps. Fleet of those could get insane spider tanking capability with all the free highslots, reaping bonus and resistance bonuses. Essentially we are getting BS sized slowcats here. Keeping remote rep range small helps people to use bumping to break those spider tanks, stops spider tank from being able to be establish immediately after jumping the gate or wormhole, and makes them more vulnerable to bombing runs. This ship needs those counters, else it could become too powerful. GIven those counters though, who would actually use it like this? The pricetag given current LP prices is somewhere around 2.2 bil (source reddit: if you disagree do the math, I'm lazy). For 2.2 bil it'll cost as much as a slowcat, so you might as well field a fleet of those. If you want a subcap fleet there's a ton of other ships that match the criteria and cost a fraction of the price. |
Phoenix Jones
The Scope Gallente Federation
278
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Posted - 2013.12.03 22:44:00 -
[230] - Quote
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:To mare,
I agree. Too many bonuses. Don't give it a repair bonus. Og with either 7H, 5M, 7L or 6H, 6M, 7L
Slot layout is fine. We all kinda want 7 and 8 lows on all our armor tanked battleships.. but its not really needed here. Stabbers are totally broken
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15116553
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Seranova Farreach
Lion Squadron
461
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Posted - 2013.12.03 22:45:00 -
[231] - Quote
Streya Jormagdnir wrote:CCP Rise wrote:We can certainly discuss this amount vs range thing. Can you guys help me out saying specifically in relation to it:
Do you feel you need added range to be able to run PVE content, or just to PVP, or both? Are you asking for bonus to amount AND bonus to range or bonus to range INSTEAD of amount?
Not sure when it gets to sisi but there will be plenty of time before release to play with it.
The range bonus in general is good because it means if this (rather low-mass) ship gets bumped it will have more range as a safety net when spider tanking. The amount bonus is also good. If anything, I'd say drop the probing bonuses in favor of the RR range; explorers and wormholers who are even considering hopping into this thing will likely have solid probing skills anyway, and with a relatively slow warp speed/acceleration I definitely can't imagine it being effective for combat probing and tackling. Just my 0.02 ISK NO, keep the probe bonus, thats the neiche of the SOE ships damn it. |
Torijace
GRUMPS RESEARCH TEAM Army of Dark Shadows
3
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Posted - 2013.12.03 22:48:00 -
[232] - Quote
An interesting spin with the ship purpose as RR>Exploration>Combat
NESTOR
Amarr Battleship Bonuses: 4% Armor resistances per level
Gallente Battleship Bonuses: 10% drone damage and hitpoints per level 125% drone repair amount per level
Role bonuses: 50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range 50% increased strength for scan probes +10 virus strength for relic and data analyzers
Slot layout: 7H, 6M, 6L; 6 turrets, 0 launchers Fittings: 11250 PWG, 680 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull): 8900 / 9950 / 9900 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 6200 / 1044 / 5.9 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 92 / .18 / 56000000 / 13.97 Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 85 / 7 Sensor strength: 24 Magnetometric Signature radius: 465 Cargo Capacity: 700
____
So basicly shifted the repair amount from high slot mods to drones. Extended the the rep range to 60k with perfect skills and the cost of delayed rep activation due to travel time and loss of rep ability due to drone loss. Its kind of an interesting concept
It could also be pretty awesome to include a bonus to ewar drones though at first glance I have no idea how to balance it. |
Owen Levanth
Federated Deep Space Explorations
43
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Posted - 2013.12.03 22:48:00 -
[233] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote: A wall of text.
Now, we also have zero exploration battleships so I suggest removing the rep-bonus instead. Make it a combat-exploration vessel to satisfy both PVP and PVE aspects, done.
Maybe later CCP can revisit this theme with a dedicated space healer, maybe for a InterBus-shipline or something. |
Thaddeus Eggeras
TwoTenX LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
125
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Posted - 2013.12.03 22:48:00 -
[234] - Quote
I agree it isn't needed, but better 7L then 6M, or 7H.
And everyone whining about not having a covert cloak. Guess what it isn't getting one DEAL with it, best you can hope for is a cloak bonus somewhat like blackops get now. I hope for that instead of the armor repair bonus. |
Seranova Farreach
Lion Squadron
461
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Posted - 2013.12.03 22:51:00 -
[235] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:Lets see. We have...
Amarr, Neut Sentry/Heavy Drone Boat, (Armor) Gallente, (Dominix and Navy Issue) Hybrid Gun Sentry/Sentry Boat (Armor) Pirate, Missile Sentry Boat (Shield) Sisters, Laser, Sentry Boat (armor), potential logistics ship (remote armor repper).
I'm not sure who would bother to bring this out vs a posprey, onieros, etc. Expensive ship to fit as a field medic.
I'd... consider relooking at it a little. I don't see an actual use in pvp, except that everybody and there mother will come racing out to get on the killmail.
It will kill tackle, at least thats one good thing about it.
Come to think of it. Here are some uses.
1) Incursions. Now all armor, with several of these ships to repair the field, as they can be mega tanked to absorb alpha that some logistics ships would have issues taking. All oneiros and guardian ships now replaced with sister medic ships. Oneiros prices plummit to 0. Gallente Logistic pilots cry. Ship reduced to lolneroses.
2) Mission Runner. Micro jump, snipe at 100. Dead everything.
.... thats about it. I think the incursion community will be very happy with this ship (a battleship based medic boat).
no, incursion fleets are shield only unless nullsec and possably low if your expecting hostile fleets. |
Andrea Keuvo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
55
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Posted - 2013.12.03 22:54:00 -
[236] - Quote
Owen Levanth wrote:Phoenix Jones wrote: A wall of text.
Now, we also have zero exploration battleships so I suggest removing the rep-bonus instead. Make it a combat-exploration vessel to satisfy both PVP and PVE aspects, done. Maybe later CCP can revisit this theme with a dedicated space healer, maybe for a InterBus-shipline or something.
There are no exploration battleships because a solo battleship jumping gates in low/nullsec is going to die horribly and quickly |
The Sinister
Eve Minions
28
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Posted - 2013.12.03 22:55:00 -
[237] - Quote
Ok im I the only one that thinks this bonus is better than the Remote Repair Bonus?
multiplies the cloaked velocity by 125% per level |
Phoenix Jones
The Scope Gallente Federation
278
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Posted - 2013.12.03 22:55:00 -
[238] - Quote
Seranova Farreach wrote:Phoenix Jones wrote:Lets see. We have...
Amarr, Neut Sentry/Heavy Drone Boat, (Armor) Gallente, (Dominix and Navy Issue) Hybrid Gun Sentry/Sentry Boat (Armor) Pirate, Missile Sentry Boat (Shield) Sisters, Laser, Sentry Boat (armor), potential logistics ship (remote armor repper).
I'm not sure who would bother to bring this out vs a posprey, onieros, etc. Expensive ship to fit as a field medic.
I'd... consider relooking at it a little. I don't see an actual use in pvp, except that everybody and there mother will come racing out to get on the killmail.
It will kill tackle, at least thats one good thing about it.
Come to think of it. Here are some uses.
1) Incursions. Now all armor, with several of these ships to repair the field, as they can be mega tanked to absorb alpha that some logistics ships would have issues taking. All oneiros and guardian ships now replaced with sister medic ships. Oneiros prices plummit to 0. Gallente Logistic pilots cry. Ship reduced to lolneroses.
2) Mission Runner. Micro jump, snipe at 100. Dead everything.
.... thats about it. I think the incursion community will be very happy with this ship (a battleship based medic boat). no, incursion fleets are shield only unless nullsec and possably low if your expecting hostile fleets.
Older post, I've already moved on from that.
I was trying to dream up the uses of the current ship, thats all I could come up with.
And if it even fails at incursions, whats the actual point.
Eitherway, move along
Stabbers are totally broken
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15116553
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Seranova Farreach
Lion Squadron
461
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Posted - 2013.12.03 22:55:00 -
[239] - Quote
Quinn Corvez wrote:50% RR is way too small and virus strength on a BS is a waste of a bonus IMO.
Drop the virus bonus and give it the same MJD bonus that marauders get and you're good. no. it needs virus and cohesion. and scan bonus. |
Caroline Grace
Almost Approved
386
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Posted - 2013.12.03 22:56:00 -
[240] - Quote
Owen Levanth wrote:Phoenix Jones wrote: A wall of text.
Now, we also have zero exploration battleships so I suggest removing the rep-bonus instead. Make it a combat-exploration vessel to satisfy both PVP and PVE aspects, done. Maybe later CCP can revisit this theme with a dedicated space healer, maybe for a InterBus-shipline or something.
Can't stress this enough. The rep-bonus has absolutely no place on this battleship, as the theme was since Astero exploration, not some super weird mutation of logistic and exploration. I would be cool with new tier of ships from SOE whose are "healers" (since SOE is in lore also a healing group of hippies), but not on this battleship. Doesn't make any sense, it's bad, it makes the Nestor to do two things and both badly. |
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