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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Catherine Laartii
Knights of Xibalba
44
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 19:31:00 -
[121] - Quote
I can has Star Destroyer?
http://www.mediafire.com/view/50o1v8akdo7cvvk,a0agcg84l1hoy40,24kqzbbugikuvmh,wo52boe7jvapn7g,oya0e01ep03occ2/Gallery#24kqzbbugikuvmh |
Phoenix Jones
The Scope Gallente Federation
271
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 19:34:00 -
[122] - Quote
8 lows on this ship with the amarr resist bonus would be a little nuts. Slot layout looks fine.
Generally people want range with repairers, because they don't want to land this isk pinata at 0 on a fleet. Most support wont land at 0, but will keep away from the main ball of the fleet.
This is an oddball because its built to tank, but it has that odd optimal bonus to guns...
Lots of setups, odd ship.
If you want this ship to be a repairing support ship, you have to give it all the support bonuses (repair amounts and range). I'm not even sure if it needs an optimal bonus to lasers.
It needs the range, it needs the repair amount bonus, yea its allot of bonuses to one hull. Stabbers are totally broken
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15116553
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PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
676
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 19:36:00 -
[123] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote: Role bonuses: 50% bonus to remote repair amount 50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range 50% increased strength for scan probes +10 virus strength for relic and data analyzers
The ship has bonuses to exploration, yet it will fail miserably at said role.
Let us look at what exploration ships actually do: 1) Move from system A to system B. 2) Scan System B. 3) If System B has any relevant sites of interest, run those sites. 4) Repeat.
Why would I use a nestor for exploration, when I can use a stratios or T3? Tank? Surely not, both the stratios and the T3's can trivially fit a sufficient tank to run just about any ghost site. Meanwhile, the covops cloak and/or nullifier on the aforementioned ships makes them quite good at moving around dangerous space, which is something any dedicated explorer does quite often.
The nestor has no means of reliably navigating dangerous space by itself. This removes it from the list of viable exploration ships. Oh sure, you could say "get some friends" or "bring a scout alt," but why go through all that trouble just to fly the nestor? And if I am to use 2 accounts for exploration, there are far better alternatives that already exist than Nestor + 'X'.
I suppose you could make a case for running WH professional sites in a Nestor, but honestly I think that you would do better with other existing ships. Also, no range bonus makes the RR very mediocre.
Honestly, the ship is very meh for its intended role. |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2498
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 19:37:00 -
[124] - Quote
Hatsumi Kobayashi wrote:mynnna wrote: Which is in turn why it has a very low base speed - it prevents its low mass from making it really, really fast with an MWD on.
It does 1,183ms with a MWD, before implants, ganglinks and other modules.
Which puts it at the top end for T1 BS (a Tempest does 1154, a Typhoon 1154) but is well short of the 1433m/s it'd get if it had a 122m/s base speed like the Megathron. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Max Kolonko
High Voltage Industries Ash Alliance
362
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 19:39:00 -
[125] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Max Kolonko wrote:Harvey James wrote:mm... its agility seems a little poor compared to other faction ships..
mach 0.084
Nestor 0.18
so swap some mass for agility instead Align time is a function of agility and Mass So low mass is compensating for worse agility - and no one expect a "pirate dominix" to be as agile as mach second: low Mass is critical for two things. WH jumping (lower mass means more BS's put trough a single hole) and prop mods efficency (final speed bonus is a function of speed bonus and thrust versus mass) Which is in turn why it has a very low base speed - it prevents its low mass from making it really, really fast with an MWD on.
Damn, missed that one :) Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff? |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
731
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 19:40:00 -
[126] - Quote
Now you need to make a shield equivalent
Like if there wasn't enough armor tanked roams in WHs. G££ <= Me |
Jason Itiner
Sectatores Pax
38
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 19:40:00 -
[127] - Quote
I agree with those advocating dropping the probing bonuses in favor of a range bonus for remote (armor) repairs. Armor in parenthesis, since I could easily see an aid-focused ship getting bonuses to both shield and armor.
As for the probing bonuses, I imagine anyone trying to fly this ship would likely have a dedicated probe ship, and solid skills to use it. A battleship would be too unwieldy for exploration, but would be good in rendering assistance in combat. |
Emma Yobibit
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
55
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 19:40:00 -
[128] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:8 lows on this ship with the amarr resist bonus would be a little nuts. Slot layout looks fine.
Generally people want range with repairers, because they don't want to land this isk pinata at 0 on a fleet. Most support wont land at 0, but will keep away from the main ball of the fleet.
This is an oddball because its built to tank, but it has that odd optimal bonus to guns...
Lots of setups, odd ship.
If you want this ship to be a repairing support ship, you have to give it all the support bonuses (repair amounts and range). I'm not even sure if it needs an optimal bonus to lasers.
It needs the range, it needs the repair amount bonus, yea its allot of bonuses to one hull.
No one uses T3 subsystem for reps because its POINTLESS, the thing is logistics are primary allot in fleets, and this will be primary even more so, so making it a logistics requires has much if not more range then standard logistics to even think about making it work.
Half a bonus is nothing to be glad about, something like this requires everything you can have.
Also i mean no... hacking bonus please.. god, no one will ever go in a hacking site with a BS unless it has a range bonus to hacking modules or something special.
Its a pointless ship il fly only for drones and lasers right now like the rattle.... give it some love ccp, you made the last OP and this one UP |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
291
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 19:43:00 -
[129] - Quote
Interesting. Not sure if it's interesting in a good way though.
A half mass BS seems to be a real bad idea to start with. I assume that is to help it move about data/relic sites. But just seems like it is a bit prone to abuse for PvP.
Data/Relic bonus is just kinda weird. I suppose it'd be useful in a WH. But you sure as hell aren't gonna be using this ship in null or low - it'd just be a comedy killmail waiting to happen. And for hi-sec it'd just be a waste since a CovOps is much more nimble and faster.
The Probe bonus seems a bit much. It scans as well as a CovOps - which is a dedicated prober that sacrifices any form of tank or combat ability. So the bonus should probably be knocked down to the standard 37.5%. Granted, without that bonus why would anybody even bother scanning with a BS? Especially without a CovOps cloak.
The RR bonus seems okay. Adding in a RR range bonus on top of that would be a real bad idea. Should be either/or. With amount bonus only it keeps the ships clustered which makes them a viable target for bombing runs. With just a range bonus it gives them much more flexibility, but could lead to potential abuse in large groups.
. . .
Maybe ditch the whole exploration aspect of the ship and focus more on the medic theme? Make it a sort of medic BLOps with a jump drive, RR bonuses, ship refitting, and able to fit command links? Like a mobile triage base or something? |
Emma Yobibit
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
55
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 19:44:00 -
[130] - Quote
- 1 Exploration "scanning/hacking" bonus's never to be used
- 1 Useless Half Rep bonus never to be used unless in incursion or WH
~ 1 mass bonus?... if it had some speed ya but since not meh
Request:
Add black ops bonus's (including the covert jump bridge dammit....) remove the scanning and hacking froma BS xD
Put full damage and tanking (amarr/gallente bonus's) Or but full rep bonus with half damage and tanking bonus.... |
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PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
677
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 19:49:00 -
[131] - Quote
Honestly, I'd go back to the drawing board with the role bonuses. They just don't make any sense in the given context.
Might be worth looking into expanding its logi role, maybe a logi blops with no cloaking bonuses or something. |
Vatek
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
94
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 19:50:00 -
[132] - Quote
This should have been a blops bs, its current form is just a hideously expensive RR domi. Boring. |
DJ P0N-3
Table Flippendeavors
204
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 19:50:00 -
[133] - Quote
Berluth Luthian wrote:What is SoE going to do with all of this sudden influx of isk? I'm worried that it is going to corrupt their benevolent institution.
Having read the chronicles, I don't know if "benevolent institution" really applies...
CCP Rise wrote:We can certainly discuss this amount vs range thing. Can you guys help me out saying specifically in relation to it:
Do you feel you need added range to be able to run PVE content, or just to PVP, or both? Are you asking for bonus to amount AND bonus to range or bonus to range INSTEAD of amount?
Not sure when it gets to sisi but there will be plenty of time before release to play with it.
No rep bonus but a range bonus seems decent. At first glance it looks like it and a bunch of its buddies (already a dangerous assumption given its price) dump out sentries and cluster together to spider-tank. Then along comes the analyzing and hacking...which you have to putter around to do.
It still takes three times the mass of an average cruiser and it's pricey. I'm not inclined to run over to SoE screaming "shut up and take my isk" yet. |
Hatsumi Kobayashi
Origin. Black Legion.
314
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 19:53:00 -
[134] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Which puts it at the top end for T1 BS (a Tempest does 1154, a Typhoon 1154) but is well short of the 1433m/s it'd get if it had a 122m/s base speed like the Megathron.
With snakes, links and a pair of nanos (imagine a semi-standard Mach fit as base) the Nestor tops out at 2100m/s, just under 700 below the Mach but with similar agility. Given 6 low slots is rather poor on an armor tanked ship unless you intend to brick tank the thing, it looks like it'll be viable as a shield tanked ship for roamers.
So the mass/speed/agility is okay.
Now for the actual bonuses, it looks way all over the place. No sig. |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
340
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 19:54:00 -
[135] - Quote
I too believe this ship would be better off with an RR-range bonus. That would keep the repamount for extreme fits in ceck - adressing the complete repurpose of that ship to be a logibattleship.
The 12k off gate spawn already limits the max distance on decloak between two ships to around 25km on a common gate (none of those regiongates), so about that would be a good value in my opinion. Fitting 7 reps into your highs would now clearly make it a superoneiros with bonused dronebay, for an infernal price :>
Not choosing the repamount would also put it into the same spot as the RR-paladin, with 7 T2 RRs worth of repairs, and seperate them:
paladin > *insane local tank, unjammable, like a triage* and nestor > *resilent oneiros with okay'ish range, wonderful drones, stackable (important for k-space)* "I honestly thought I was in lowsec" |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Polarized.
1051
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 19:56:00 -
[136] - Quote
Vladimir Norkoff wrote: Maybe ditch the whole exploration aspect of the ship and focus more on the medic theme? Make it a sort of medic BLOps with a jump drive, RR bonuses, ship refitting, and able to fit command links? Like a mobile triage base or something?
THIS +1 |
Aeril Malkyre
Knights of the Ouroboros
287
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 19:57:00 -
[137] - Quote
This is... far more ordinary than I think we were hoping for. Some random suggestions.
- Bonus all reps, but don't overrun the logistics ships. - Drop the weapon bonus and increase the rep range. Let the user choose their guns, but rely on drones. - It is extremely dangerous to scan in a WH without a cloak. Could use an improved, but the cov ops is more fun. Removing the gun bonus above also reduces the 'suddenly lazorz' up front bashing people would be doing with a cloaked BS. - We're missing some unique opportunities. If this is the Sister's main medic ship for dangerous space, give it something else. Site hacking is not really in the purview. It should be sending scouts out to do that. Realistically it should be a 2-3 frigate's worth of m3 carrier. This momma should decloak (or not, I have no idea how that works) and send out a trio of Asteros to go do the scout work. Something like a 60,000 m3 ship hanger. A tiny (relatively) WH carrier.
I'd like to see something we haven't had before, instead of a rehash of predictable concepts. This is a new line of ships. Run with it. |
Tiberizzle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
35
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 19:57:00 -
[138] - Quote
hi guys like drop the laser bonus and make this a blops bs, it doesn't even need to get a covert cloak, just the velocity modifier and jump drive ok
nobody's going to use a 1.5B RR BS that can't even covert jump except maybe some niche lowsec and syndicate nerds nobody cares about, but this set of bonuses (except the probing bonus lol?) would be perfect for (and is mostly in line with) the current blops BS roles
you already made the frigate and cruiser covert and the theme established for covert BS is jump drive / cloaked velocity
don't leave us hanging like this we were all expecting a covert BS |
Phoenix Jones
The Scope Gallente Federation
271
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 19:57:00 -
[139] - Quote
What is this ship suppose to be?
1) Exploration ship (hacking bonuses, probe launcher bonuses)?
The problem. No cloak. All exploration ships have a way to hide themselves, as they generally won't be set combat capable in there pure exploration role.
2) Combat ship (laser range, tank bonuses)?
The problem. None offhand minus the whole laser/capacitor drain suck from fitting 5 turrets. Potential 2 wasted highs. A lot of wasted bonuses, no gun damage bonus (damage of large lasers would be low, though sentry drone damage makes up for it). Cost vs a comparable hull (Dominix). Potential issue with gangs of these ships using there 2 spare highs for spider repairing each other (along with the rep bonus, out-repairs all other spider tanked battleships). In addition, with the armor resist bonus, now out-tanks them too.
3) A support vessel (remote repair bonuses, tank bonus)?
The problem. Has the same repair range of other battleships. Making it repair more per shot is not worth the cost vs other battleship hulls. Range of repairers too short, must be in the main ball of other support/battleships to be effective, generally will be called primary outright. Literally, the issue is range, a 16km rep range would be admirable for this battleship (can catch wanderers and stragglers). Potential issue with the above if this is implemented.
The exploration is lost because it has no covops cloak.
The combat's odd because its essentially a replacement for the Dominix, but would probably not be worth the price. Guns on this ship potentially pointless with no damage bonus to them (sentrys op due to use of drone assist, but would require a SIGNIFICANT amount of these, and fielding a hundred billiion isk sentry sister battleship gang (100 of these) probably is not the smartest move).
Its identity is mired. The sister's made these exploration vessels, but you've given them a mixed bag of tricks, trying to shoehorn them into one of the current Dominix setups. Then tacked on this exploration with no cloak, potential wormhole diving billion isk battleship....
The Astero and the Stratios are cool ships, but there just toys at the moment. That said, they are capable of actually doing the job of exploration while the Nestor is not.
I understand that this is not suppose to be some solo pwnmobile, but you gave it the potential to be a good fleet ship (if people want to actually risk these costly ships, while not sticking with the initial image of the Sisters of Eve, that of being explorers.
That is just my opinion. Stabbers are totally broken
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15116553
|
Owen Levanth
Federated Deep Space Explorations
36
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 20:03:00 -
[140] - Quote
Two strikes and a miss. I had high hopes after the Astero and the Stratios but this here just disappoints me.
My complaints in a nutshell: Base speed to slow, not even a bonus to Improved Cloak usage like a Black Ops.
Honestly, I think giving it a Covert Ops Cloak would have been too much (I wouldn't have complained about it, of course) but I expected at least some sort of speed bonus on using a Improved Cloak.
A battleship, even with low mass, will still be easily caught if you use this overpriced piece of **** as an actuall exploration vessel. As a point on balance: With a cyno alt you can savely jump your Black Ops around avoiding gates completely, so not giving it a Cov-Ops Cloak makes sense. But the Nestor has nothing, not even the BO cloak-bonus. This is bad, short and simple.
Sometimes I think CCP wants to annoy me personally by making beautiful ships and than giving them a set of bonuses/capabilities which makes them useless for me. Or even useless for what they say the ships are supposed to be used for, which always confuses the hell out of me.
So I guess I will use the Stratios for exploration and maybe try to make use of a Widow later down the line.
That said, I will try to get a Nestor just for the novelty, but with this sorry state of affairs I don't see it getting used by me. |
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1877
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 20:09:00 -
[141] - Quote
This ship should be the heavy hitter of the SOE ships.
Ditch the RR bonus, its something the Dominix has always wanted (750% RR range for the Dominix).
The hacking bonus is a waste as well, sure it can survive the can explosion and rats of ghost sites and it should because there is little chance it will successfully hack more than one can.
The probing bonus 37.5% will find anything a BS needs to be able to find.
Drop the turrets down to 4. 50% Large Energy Turret Damage. 50% Large Energy Turret and Sentry Drone Optimal Range 37.5% Scanner Probe Strength
That will put the ship at 715.5 DPS before damage mods and implants, using 4 Mega Pulse Laser IIs (Scorch L) and 5 Garde IIs Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Arazel Chainfire
Sons Of 0din
219
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 20:13:00 -
[142] - Quote
Ok, my first impression is that I'm rather underwhelmed. Lets look at the details here...
First off, the bonus's.
Armor resist bonus Drone Damage bonus RR amount Large Energy Turret Optimal Scan Probe Strength + virus strength
Armor resist, drone damage, no biggie. Nothing too interesting there. Energy turret optimal? ok, I suppose so.
RR amount? With no range bonus? This means that you are sitting around with an optimal of about 8ish km. Less than scram range. There is a reason why T3's are rarely used for logi's, and its not the price. Its the pathetic range of RR. Really to be used effectively, we need a RR range between 15 and 20km. Whether this is accomplished via a range bonus, or by changing the module itself, as it is, the range is too short to be used effectively. Attempting to do so will leave you a giant target for bombs, and makes it way too easy to get out of range either due to poor maneuvering, or getting bumped.
So these bonuses are all combining to say "I'm a giant brick that is going to sit still, not move, and let everything come to me". Then you look at the mass, which comes in at around half that of most other BS's. This is just screaming maneuverability, kiting around, and emphasizing movement. But the bonuses are saying otherwise. And we come back to maneuverability, but pitiful rep range, but a bonus to RR.
Moving on, lets look at the scan probe strength and virus strength. This is screaming "Probe with me, explore with me". With a 1+ bil isk ship. Between the mobility of this ship and its price tag, there is nothing to recommend this ship for exploration over the stratios, a T3, or using 2 characters, 1 scanning, 1 running sites. The only people who are going to use this for actual exploration are idiots, as something with this price tag will bring far too much unwelcome attention coming for it. These bonuses are going to get wasted, and go unused the majority of the time.
Next, lets look at the slot layout. 7/6/6, with bonus to armor tanking, and drones. Having utility mids is nice - but it isn't that nice. Really this ship needs a 7/5/7, or a 6/5/8 slot layout to be able to fit both tank and damage. 6 mids is waaaaay overkill for what this ship actually needs, while 6 lows is really too little for a ship that is expected to armor tank and fit actual damage.
All in all, I think I'll hold off on this ship in its current form, and stick with the stratios instead. The nestor doesn't provide enough to be worth its price tag, is too conflicted about what it actually wants to do, and doesn't excel in any one area enough to be worth picking up for any purpose.
-Arazel |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
132
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 20:14:00 -
[143] - Quote
Tiberizzle wrote:hi guys like drop the laser bonus and make this a blops bs, it doesn't even need to get a covert cloak, just the velocity modifier and jump drive ok nobody's going to use a 1.5B RR BS that can't even covert jump except maybe some niche lowsec and syndicate nerds nobody cares about, but this set of bonuses (except the probing bonus lol?) would be perfect for (and is mostly in line with) the current blops BS roles you already made the frigate and cruiser covert and the theme established for covert BS is jump drive / cloaked velocity don't leave us hanging like this we were all expecting a covert BS Quoting for truth -- this would turn the Nestor from an uninteresting gimmick not worth its cost to a useful workhorse ship that we can inspire hundreds to train for and use. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
133
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 20:19:00 -
[144] - Quote
Oh, an addendum -- to differentiate this ship from Blackops BS, I would say that the Nestor should not be able to fit the Covert Jump Portal Generator (blops bridge). This ties in with the general theme of the Sisters of Eve ships having limited, but not full covert capabilities (c.f. Astero and Stratios are unable to use covert cynos.) This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
GreenSeed
763
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 20:21:00 -
[145] - Quote
looks pretty strong at the 40km - 50km mark with Sentries and pulses.
couldn't it be an Ewar platform instead of an RR boat? a long point / long web battleship would be great, and would see some use... long range RR? pointless. any real Logi will wipe the floor with this slowpoke, and a spider setup with other battleships will never use the bonus range, unless they want to screw up their sentry blap capabilities. |
Deithess
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 20:22:00 -
[146] - Quote
A special logi bs. This is what many people are waiting for.
Imo, this ship should have:
Amarr Battleship Bonuses: 4% Armor resistances per level
Gallente Battleship Bonuses: 10% drone damage and hitpoints per level
Role bonuses: 150% bonus to Energy Transfer Array and Remote Armor Repair System range 20% bonus to Remote Armor Repair System capacitor use 40% reduction in the amount of heat damage absorbed by modules
Notes: Can fit covert ops cloaks and covert cynosural field generators. Cloak reactivation delay reduced to 5 seconds.
Other nice bonuses: navigation, targeting |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
443
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 20:23:00 -
[147] - Quote
Arazel Chainfire wrote:
RR amount? With no range bonus?
Maybe CCP are going to be sensible and drop logistics rep range bonuses massively. |
Arrendis
Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team
80
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 20:25:00 -
[148] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:We can certainly discuss this amount vs range thing. Can you guys help me out saying specifically in relation to it:
Do you feel you need added range to be able to run PVE content, or just to PVP, or both? Are you asking for bonus to amount AND bonus to range or bonus to range INSTEAD of amount?
Not sure when it gets to sisi but there will be plenty of time before release to play with it.
I spent years in a wormhole running spider-tanked battleship logistics, and now I fly logi in large fleet actions out in null. The need to keep the entire fleet bunched up on one another at times made maneuvering an annoying and frustrating proposition.
So, yes: for PVE and PVP, it needs a 100% range bonus to be effective. I'd say you want the amount bonus as well, or these things are going to be devoting an excessive amount of their slots to cap regen - especially since they're using energy weapons, which also need heavy cap recharge. |
Hatsumi Kobayashi
Origin. Black Legion.
314
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 20:27:00 -
[149] - Quote
Deithess wrote:Notes: Can fit covert ops cloaks and covert cynosural field generators. Cloak reactivation delay reduced to 5 seconds.
Definitely not. No sig. |
Zvaarian the Red
Evil Leprechaun Brigade
147
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 20:27:00 -
[150] - Quote
Katrina Oniseki wrote:Maennas Vaer wrote:Feels very bland I'm afraid. Disappointed it isn't a blops. They said it would be for wormholes. What use would jump bridging be in wormholes? Besides, there's nothing stopping you from fitting an Improved Cloak like a blackops. I think we all expected that it wouldn't be a true covert-ops battleship.
For WH exploration? Yeah I'm not seeing it... |
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