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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Moneta Curran
Lunar Industries Ltd
210
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Posted - 2013.12.03 17:49:00 -
[61] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Data sites in wormholes don't explode and nearly (or successfully) one-shot your cruiser.
Ghost sites, on the other hand...
The analysis ability is obviously designed so you can effectively run null/WH ghost sites with the benefit of battleship EHP to handle the massive explosion.
Alright, but I thought the general idea was to avoid the explosion, not sit there and try to eat it in your billion isk faction battleship...
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jonnykefka
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
235
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Posted - 2013.12.03 17:50:00 -
[62] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:We can certainly discuss this amount vs range thing. Can you guys help me out saying specifically in relation to it:
Do you feel you need added range to be able to run PVE content, or just to PVP, or both? Are you asking for bonus to amount AND bonus to range or bonus to range INSTEAD of amount?
Not sure when it gets to sisi but there will be plenty of time before release to play with it.
Counter-question: Do you intend this to be used with medium-sized ships, or mostly in RRBS gangs?
Given a range bonus, especially a range + amount bonus, we will turn this thing into the BS-sized faction UberGuardian. That sounds pretty awesome to me and would definitely have more PvP utility, but I'm not sure it's the ship you want to make.
As it is now, I think it'll be a super popular AT ship, you could make fun RRBS gangs using a couple of these or these plus domis, and if they were not ridiculously priced I could see finding some uses for one during a W-space POS siege (where we have occasionally used logi domis to supplement guardians), but as a W-space resident this isn't going to be useful to me most of the time.
And yes, the low mass means that it's very bump-vulnerable. That's already a relevant counter to RRBS gangs (which are rarely used these days anyways), and this would be no different, and would help balance it in that context given its rep bonus. |
Amera Khan
Southern Cross Incorporated Flying Dangerous
5
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Posted - 2013.12.03 17:51:00 -
[63] - Quote
It definitely needs some sort of range bonus to remote reps to make the amount bonus worth while.It doesnt need to have the range of the current logi but somewhere in the middle would be good. |
Danny John-Peter
Snuff Box
352
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Posted - 2013.12.03 17:53:00 -
[64] - Quote
+1ing a range bonus, RR are already pretty effective especially when combined with good resist fit ships and force multipliers, so a range bonus would be far more useful than an amount bonus. |
Jason Dunham
Barr Heavy Industries Fatal Ascension
10
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Posted - 2013.12.03 17:54:00 -
[65] - Quote
Personally I like it just the way it is, I think changes might make it too overpowered.
Currently it will have a good amount of local ehp, the remote rep bonus matches the way a lot of ratters fit their ships (fit this way it would have a buffer tank and drone upgrades, along with the probes and analyzer/hacker and use sentries, it could use it's remote repair to fix drones, or spider tank in a fleet)
For pvp, I see the capability of a laser boat with drones, you could drop sentries and use the reduced mass to charge around the battlefield doing close range damage with lasers. I agree, the remote rep range in pvp would be a little problematic given the power of range on the battlefield, but there's supposed to be meaningful choices, and making this ship good at everything prevents those from occurring. If it reps more than a logi, then it has a reason to choose it as a logi, but it's range will limit that choice, perhaps to setups like domis that can stay close together, but then it's vulnerable to bombing.
All in all, I like the ship as it is bonus wise, I fell like it promotes meaningful choices. I do agree that given the price and set of bonuses it will primarily be used as a PVE ship, but I look forward to seeing it used creatively in pvp as well. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd CAStabouts
1342
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Posted - 2013.12.03 17:55:00 -
[66] - Quote
Moneta Curran wrote:Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Data sites in wormholes don't explode and nearly (or successfully) one-shot your cruiser.
Ghost sites, on the other hand...
The analysis ability is obviously designed so you can effectively run null/WH ghost sites with the benefit of battleship EHP to handle the massive explosion.
Alright, but I thought the general idea was to avoid the explosion, not sit there and try to eat it in your billion isk faction battleship...
If you fail a hack, boom.
If you disconnect for any reason it counts as a failed hack. Boom.
If you take too long during a hack or hang around in the site too long, bigger boom.
It's something that, if triggered, you can't avoid. |
Phoenix Jones
The Scope Gallente Federation
269
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Posted - 2013.12.03 17:56:00 -
[67] - Quote
Lets see. We have...
Amarr, Neut Sentry/Heavy Drone Boat, (Armor) Gallente, (Dominix and Navy Issue) Hybrid Gun Sentry/Sentry Boat (Armor) Pirate, Missile Sentry Boat (Shield) Sisters, Laser, Sentry Boat (armor), potential logistics ship (remote armor repper).
I'm not sure who would bother to bring this out vs a posprey, onieros, etc. Expensive ship to fit as a field medic.
I'd... consider relooking at it a little. I don't see an actual use in pvp, except that everybody and there mother will come racing out to get on the killmail.
It will kill tackle, at least thats one good thing about it.
Come to think of it. Here are some uses.
1) Incursions. Now all armor, with several of these ships to repair the field, as they can be mega tanked to absorb alpha that some logistics ships would have issues taking. All oneiros and guardian ships now replaced with sister medic ships. Oneiros prices plummit to 0. Gallente Logistic pilots cry. Ship reduced to lolneroses.
2) Mission Runner. Micro jump, snipe at 100. Dead everything.
.... thats about it. I think the incursion community will be very happy with this ship (a battleship based medic boat). Stabbers are totally broken
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15116553
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Dibblerette
Ships Chat
150
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Posted - 2013.12.03 17:57:00 -
[68] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:We can certainly discuss this amount vs range thing. Can you guys help me out saying specifically in relation to it:
Do you feel you need added range to be able to run PVE content, or just to PVP, or both? Are you asking for bonus to amount AND bonus to range or bonus to range INSTEAD of amount?
Not sure when it gets to sisi but there will be plenty of time before release to play with it.
To me, the rep amount bonus was always a Minmatar carrier thing, so putting it here seems a little strange. I think most of us would rather have the range than amount, just because the base range on those modules is so damn short. An idea out of left field would be to let the Nestor fit a single capital repper, with a role bonus for the PG needs. That has a base range of 15k (16.5 meta version) and would be a very interesting addition. It really does scream "mini-carrier" though.
EDIT: To actually address your question, I think that the range needs SOME help for PVP. Battleships aren't great at staying in scram range if something goes wrong, and these will already be juicy targets for bombers and whatnot. |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1143
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Posted - 2013.12.03 17:59:00 -
[69] - Quote
dat slowkitten We are recruiting german-speaking PVP players, contact me :)
Banner was used for this Post |
Moneta Curran
Lunar Industries Ltd
210
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Posted - 2013.12.03 18:00:00 -
[70] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:If you fail a hack, boom.
If you disconnect for any reason it counts as a failed hack. Boom.
If you take too long during a hack or hang around in the site too long, bigger boom.
It's something that, if triggered, you can't avoid.
Funny... all the more reason to do it in a procuror?
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Zircon Dasher
311
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Posted - 2013.12.03 18:02:00 -
[71] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:
Not sure when it gets to sisi but there will be plenty of time before release to play with it.
I just want to know what the time constraints are to get this nerfed WITHOUT anyone having a chance to try it out. Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
608
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Posted - 2013.12.03 18:03:00 -
[72] - Quote
mm... its agility seems a little poor compared to other faction ships..
mach 0.084
Nestor 0.18
so swap some mass for agility instead Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Sal Landry
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
129
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Posted - 2013.12.03 18:05:00 -
[73] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote: This thing will cost roughly 6 to 800 million isk for a few months at least.
Now we get to see who got held back to repeat their high school math courses. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3018
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 18:08:00 -
[74] - Quote
With 56m kg mass, how fast will this thing be traveling under AB/MWD's? In many ways, won't this be like putting an oversized prop mod on a BC?
As for the range of RR. One of the biggest hinderances to the RR subsystem of t3's, and RR BS gangs, is the very limited range of RR modules in general. 6-9 km's is a very confining range of operation, and I honestly think the base stats of these modules should be increased, rather than implementing a range bonus on these ships. (Note: This also means that RR ship hulls would need a slight adjustment to maintain their current ranges, which are pretty spot on).
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
4507
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Posted - 2013.12.03 18:10:00 -
[75] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:We can certainly discuss this amount vs range thing. Can you guys help me out saying specifically in relation to it:
Do you feel you need added range to be able to run PVE content, or just to PVP, or both? Are you asking for bonus to amount AND bonus to range or bonus to range INSTEAD of amount?
Not sure when it gets to sisi but there will be plenty of time before release to play with it.
The closer they have to be to do remote repair, the more likely they are to be mass bombed. . |
Quinn Corvez
Probe Patrol Polarized.
115
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Posted - 2013.12.03 18:10:00 -
[76] - Quote
50% RR is way too small and virus strength on a BS is a waste of a bonus IMO.
Drop the virus bonus and give it the same MJD bonus that marauders get and you're good. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
441
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Posted - 2013.12.03 18:11:00 -
[77] - Quote
This entire line of ships is really boring. |
Glasgow Dunlop
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
106
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Posted - 2013.12.03 18:12:00 -
[78] - Quote
remove the remote repair, add covert cloak option for cloaking lvl 5
WIN! twitter: @glasgowdunlop-á GLASGOW MEET No.4 DEC 28TH http://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=229549&find=unread
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Jita Intern
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.12.03 18:14:00 -
[79] - Quote
Sooo just get rid of remote reps, and add the cov ops cloak ability. Could up the virus strength to be even with Tech 3 cruisers or cov ops frigs. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd CAStabouts
1342
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Posted - 2013.12.03 18:14:00 -
[80] - Quote
Leave the virus bonus. It doesn't need a MJD bonus with that super-low mass, either. |
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StahlWaffe
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
13
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Posted - 2013.12.03 18:16:00 -
[81] - Quote
[Nestor, Incursions?] Damage Control II Armor Explosive Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Drone Damage Amplifier II
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link [empty med slot]
Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II Large Remote Armor Repairer II Large Remote Armor Repairer II Large Remote Armor Repairer II Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Repair Augmentor I Large Remote Repair Augmentor I Large Remote Repair Augmentor I
The repping range is ****, of course. 8.4km only. However, it's *SIX* Large Remote Reps we're talking about here. While having ~100k EHP. And ~450 Scanres in fleet. And having 550 DPS from Gardes. And having 3 more flights in cargohold. It's not stable, ... but 3 reps are.
Then again, i have no idea of incursions so far. So i don't know if that range is sufficient. Or if Armor fleets are ever going to be viable.
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Beaver Retriever
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
161
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Posted - 2013.12.03 18:16:00 -
[82] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote: 1) Incursions. Now all armor, with several of these ships to repair the field, as they can be mega tanked to absorb alpha that some logistics ships would have issues taking. All oneiros and guardian ships now replaced with sister medic ships. Oneiros prices plummit to 0. Gallente Logistic pilots cry. Ship reduced to lolneroses.
Implying the use of logistics in hisec incursions, where ship losses are negligible compared to fleet combat, has any impact whatsoever on logistics prices. In fact, implying that incursion carebears not using logistics would crash the price.
laffo |
Eko Fromtv
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
90
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Posted - 2013.12.03 18:17:00 -
[83] - Quote
RR range to rep the drones plz.
Also, pity the maintenance array rumor is not true. Would have been great to have a couple frigs in this ship. (Ice) Miner for life. |
GeeShizzle MacCloud
391
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Posted - 2013.12.03 18:23:00 -
[84] - Quote
change RR rep amount bonus to 100% range bonus and add an ability to temp ban people on this thread for 30 days that suggest it to have a cov ops cloak. |
Strata Maslav
Born-2-Kill Against ALL Authorities
65
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Posted - 2013.12.03 18:24:00 -
[85] - Quote
I like the sheer amount of Rep you can get on this ship.
It may want a slight increase in RR range but I would argue the base module itself want a buff to range (and nerf to the bonus current Logi bonus to offset). 15-20km for an un-bonused ship would be reasonable. (Maybe look at medium remote repairs as well, would be interesting to see T3s RR in some pvp engagements).
This is going to be a fun but expensive ship! |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1877
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Posted - 2013.12.03 18:24:00 -
[86] - Quote
I'll pass, not that interested in this one. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
1536
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 18:28:00 -
[87] - Quote
Please, add repair range bonus. As logi pilot I could use it instead of t2 logi cruisers - in PvE / incursions.
50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range => 750% range bonus to repair modules.
A bit too expensive ship for PvP - triage carrier cost almost the same. |
Max Kolonko
High Voltage Industries Ash Alliance
362
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 18:33:00 -
[88] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:mm... its agility seems a little poor compared to other faction ships..
mach 0.084
Nestor 0.18
so swap some mass for agility instead
Align time is a function of agility and Mass
So low mass is compensating for worse agility - and no one expect a "pirate dominix" to be as agile as mach
second: low Mass is critical for two things. WH jumping (lower mass means more BS's put trough a single hole) and prop mods efficency (final speed bonus is a function of speed bonus and thrust versus mass) Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff? |
zbaaca
POD Based Lifeforms DarkSide.
60
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Posted - 2013.12.03 18:33:00 -
[89] - Quote
4 role bonuses ? just remove virus and optimal . Bugs are opportunities to cause unprecedented amounts of destruction. --Zorgn GÖíGÖíGÖí |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2496
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 18:35:00 -
[90] - Quote
Max Kolonko wrote:Harvey James wrote:mm... its agility seems a little poor compared to other faction ships..
mach 0.084
Nestor 0.18
so swap some mass for agility instead Align time is a function of agility and Mass So low mass is compensating for worse agility - and no one expect a "pirate dominix" to be as agile as mach second: low Mass is critical for two things. WH jumping (lower mass means more BS's put trough a single hole) and prop mods efficency (final speed bonus is a function of speed bonus and thrust versus mass)
Which is in turn why it has a very low base speed - it prevents its low mass from making it really, really fast with an MWD on. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
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