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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |

Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1242
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 00:56:00 -
[601] - Quote
Kapytul Gaynez wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Kapytul Gaynez wrote:Seems like the people arguing for the "5 drone vanilla Worm" don't really explain why besides just repeating "That's how it is supposed to be!" ad naseum. Any chance one of them comes up with an actual reason besides "Cuz..."? "Cuz..." it fun to use 5 drones with 5 spares? Why not change the new Worm to only use one drone with 600% bonus? Not sure how having 5 drones is any more fun that having 2 and your 1 drone version has 7 effective drones instead of the proposed 8 effective drones. The proposed Worm is better than the old one in every way.
Again, being better is different from being fun. The current Worm sucks for most people, but it's my favorite ship of the game because it's a 25/50 drone shield tank frigate. The Tears Must Flow |

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1748
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 00:56:00 -
[602] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:
I bet a 5(bandwith)/10(bay) drone ship with 600% bonus would be even better right?...
yes. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |

Kapytul Gaynez
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 00:57:00 -
[603] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Kapytul Gaynez wrote:Seems like the people arguing for the "5 drone vanilla Worm" don't really explain why besides just repeating "That's how it is supposed to be!" ad naseum. Any chance one of them comes up with an actual reason besides "Cuz..."? because if my dps is in 2 drones, what happens if someone webs one and stops it getting within 8km? also, what of tracking disruptors vs drones? and if this is the way it needs to be to make combat drone ships good, why is this a guristas-only thing?
So ewar being a workable counter to drones is bad? Seems to me(I may be wrong) that having your opponent use his ewar on your drones instead of you is a good thing. TDing ships will effect part of your DPS but your missiles will still hit them and the other drone will too. |

Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
693
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 00:57:00 -
[604] - Quote
2 drones = bad idea, one griffin can solo worm, just jamm worm and both drones, nothing can go wrong. |

Kapytul Gaynez
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 00:59:00 -
[605] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Kapytul Gaynez wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Kapytul Gaynez wrote:Seems like the people arguing for the "5 drone vanilla Worm" don't really explain why besides just repeating "That's how it is supposed to be!" ad naseum. Any chance one of them comes up with an actual reason besides "Cuz..."? "Cuz..." it fun to use 5 drones with 5 spares? Why not change the new Worm to only use one drone with 600% bonus? Not sure how having 5 drones is any more fun that having 2 and your 1 drone version has 7 effective drones instead of the proposed 8 effective drones. The proposed Worm is better than the old one in every way. Again, being better is different from being fun. The current Worm sucks for most people, but it's my favorite ship of the game because it's a 25/50 drone shield tank frigate.
You keep saying that the 25/50 Shield tank frigate is what makes it fun, How does it being a 10/25 Drone Shield tank frigate that does more DPS and has more survivable Drones ruin that? |

Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1242
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 00:59:00 -
[606] - Quote
Aglais wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Kapytul Gaynez wrote:Seems like the people arguing for the "5 drone vanilla Worm" don't really explain why besides just repeating "That's how it is supposed to be!" ad naseum. Any chance one of them comes up with an actual reason besides "Cuz..."? "Cuz..." it fun to use 5 drones with 5 spares? Why not change the new Worm to only use one drone with 600% bonus? You may not even NEED spare drones, don't you see? These drones are going to have more EHP than heavies, while having significantly smaller sigs and travelling FAR faster. You'll still have a 'spare set' of drones given that the bay of the Worm will still be 25.
I've already answered this, being better is different from being fun, and for me the fun of the Worm is the fact you can use 5 drones with 5 spare on a shield tanked frigate. The Tears Must Flow |

Silivar Karkun
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
163
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 00:59:00 -
[607] - Quote
not gonna keep arguing about the bonuses, but think of it from the victim standpoint, wouldnt those dronesbe too hard (if not impossible) to destroy?, basically you're fighting 1v3, no imagine a small group of 3 worms, those are 16 drones worth of DPS right there.....so its like getting ganked by 9 ships... (3 ships each worm) |

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
524
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 01:00:00 -
[608] - Quote
Kapytul Gaynez wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:Kapytul Gaynez wrote:Seems like the people arguing for the "5 drone vanilla Worm" don't really explain why besides just repeating "That's how it is supposed to be!" ad naseum. Any chance one of them comes up with an actual reason besides "Cuz..."? because if my dps is in 2 drones, what happens if someone webs one and stops it getting within 8km? also, what of tracking disruptors vs drones? and if this is the way it needs to be to make combat drone ships good, why is this a guristas-only thing? So ewar being a workable counter to drones is bad? Seems to me(I may be wrong) that having your opponent use his ewar on your drones instead of you is a good thing. TDing ships will effect part of your DPS but your missiles will still hit them and the other drone will too.
of course it's bad. drones are supposed to be pretty much ewar-proof. that, and iffy damage at whatever range you like, is supposed to be the reason you use drones. TDs are ridiculously powerful already. |

Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
1132
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 01:03:00 -
[609] - Quote
I can't believe there are people defending the current Worm.
If you want a 25/50 drone frigate, fly an Ishkur tbh. |

Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1242
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 01:03:00 -
[610] - Quote
Kapytul Gaynez wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Kapytul Gaynez wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Kapytul Gaynez wrote:Seems like the people arguing for the "5 drone vanilla Worm" don't really explain why besides just repeating "That's how it is supposed to be!" ad naseum. Any chance one of them comes up with an actual reason besides "Cuz..."? "Cuz..." it fun to use 5 drones with 5 spares? Why not change the new Worm to only use one drone with 600% bonus? Not sure how having 5 drones is any more fun that having 2 and your 1 drone version has 7 effective drones instead of the proposed 8 effective drones. The proposed Worm is better than the old one in every way. Again, being better is different from being fun. The current Worm sucks for most people, but it's my favorite ship of the game because it's a 25/50 drone shield tank frigate. You keep saying that the 25/50 Shield tank frigate is what makes it fun, How does it being a 10/25 Drone Shield tank frigate that does more DPS and has more survivable Drones ruin that?
I like using 5 drones on a frigate, i like micromanaging 5 drones plus 5 spares during fights, only having 2 active drones ruin the fun of this ship for me (the current Worm is my favorite ship of the game). The Tears Must Flow |

Aglais
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
471
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 01:04:00 -
[611] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:
I've already answered this, being better is different from being fun, and for me the fun of the Worm is the fact you can use 5 drones with 5 spare on a shield tanked frigate.
I don't know, the fact that if I'm right I'll be doing ~215 DPS while still having top tier tank in the frigate class is going to be more fun than the slightly anemic Worm of now.
The new Worm is, in terms of stats, objectively superior to the old one. More fitting, more DPS, (slightly) more tank, it's faster... |

Kapytul Gaynez
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 01:04:00 -
[612] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:of course it's bad. drones are supposed to be pretty much ewar-proof.
Drones are pretty much EWAR proof, that doesn't mean they are supposed to be. I don't believe I have ever seen a Dev say that they want drones to be immune to EWAR. |

Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1242
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 01:04:00 -
[613] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:I can't believe there are people defending the current Worm.
If you want a 25/50 drone frigate, fly an Ishkur tbh.
I don't like the Ishkur, i like the Worm, it's a drone 25/50 shield tanked ship with a Merlin hull. The Tears Must Flow |

Silivar Karkun
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
163
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 01:06:00 -
[614] - Quote
people is defending too much is ganking capabilities but are not taking in account how would be the counter for them |

Kapytul Gaynez
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 01:07:00 -
[615] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:I like using 5 drones on a frigate, i like micromanaging 5 drones plus 5 spares during fights, only having 2 active drones ruin the fun of this ship for me (the current Worm is my favorite ship of the game).
I don't share your enthusiasm for micromanaging drones mid-combat but I can understand it. However one persons joy at micromanaging drones is not a point that the Devs should use in balancing their game. |

Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2214
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 01:07:00 -
[616] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:I like using 5 drones on a frigate, i like micromanaging 5 drones plus 5 spares during fights, only having 2 active drones ruin the fun of this ship for me (the current Worm is my favorite ship of the game). The Tristan, Ishkur and Astero are all 5 drone frigates and most can be shield fit fairly well.
The Worm was bad and dead the second crucible deployed with the updated Tristan. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |

Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1242
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 01:08:00 -
[617] - Quote
Aglais wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:
I've already answered this, being better is different from being fun, and for me the fun of the Worm is the fact you can use 5 drones with 5 spare on a shield tanked frigate.
I don't know, the fact that if I'm right I'll be doing ~215 DPS while still having top tier tank in the frigate class is going to be more fun than the slightly anemic Worm of now. The new Worm is, in terms of stats, objectively superior to the old one. More fitting, more DPS, (slightly) more tank, it's faster...
You don't seem to get it, i couldn't careless if the new Worm can do 300 dps, that's irrelevant for me, if i want to fly overpowered ships i would just go ahead and fly one. The fact that i can't use 5 drones and 5 spares ruin the fun of this ship for me. The Tears Must Flow |

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
525
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 01:08:00 -
[618] - Quote
Kapytul Gaynez wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:of course it's bad. drones are supposed to be pretty much ewar-proof. Drones are pretty much EWAR proof, that doesn't mean they are supposed to be. I don't believe I have ever seen a Dev say that they want drones to be immune to EWAR.
that would make no sense. combat drones need love, not to be made less interesting and worse. |

Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1242
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 01:09:00 -
[619] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:I like using 5 drones on a frigate, i like micromanaging 5 drones plus 5 spares during fights, only having 2 active drones ruin the fun of this ship for me (the current Worm is my favorite ship of the game). The Tristan, Ishkur and Astero are all 5 drone frigates and most can be shield fit fairly well. The Worm was bad and dead the second crucible deployed with the updated Tristan.
Bad for you, not for me, it's my favorite ship in the game. The Tears Must Flow |

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
525
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 01:10:00 -
[620] - Quote
lol @ shield tristan, ishkur and astero |

Buckethead bot
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 01:10:00 -
[621] - Quote
Why nobody is talking about cruor ?
IT IS STILL BAD.
he will still have verry low DPS and EHP.
Minmatar and rocket ships will just rotfstomp it.
HE NEEDS +1 low slot
|

Yazzinra
Scorpion Ventures Rim Worlds Protectorate
27
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 01:12:00 -
[622] - Quote
seriously, this.
AFs were deemed overpowered with half the current succubus afterburner bonus. This could really use an answer.
otherwise, i look forward to this web range bonused ashimmu. aside from the comet, faction frigs aren't really my thing.
|

Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2308
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 01:12:00 -
[623] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote: Being overpowered != of being fun. The current Worm with 25/50 drone configuration is a fun ship to fly.
You are one of like, 10 guys in all of EVE who think the current worm is 'fun'
edit: evidently including the developers. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|

Elise Randolph
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
1168
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 01:14:00 -
[624] - Quote
Seems neat.
First impression is that the Succubus is going to fly like a shield Crusader - kinda neat to think about.
I worry that bonuses don't scale very well, though, and the Phantasm seems to get a bit shafted. Promotes a sig tank, but also an active shield tank at the same time with a pretty large base sig for a cruiser. Sigtanking + shield tanking /usually/ don't go hand in hand. It works on the Tengu since it can shoot at 90km and does nearly twice the DPS, but this bad boy is going to have to be in close. May work. AB bonus would be downright sexual on an armor doctrine, though - even up to BS size.
Cruor seems like a lovechild between a Hyena and Sentinel - maybe like a 5th child or something so it doesn't get quite the same love the first ones did - but that doesn't mean it's bad. 26km webs and if it gets all up on your grill it'll shut down ill-prepared turret ships/logis/ewar like woah.
The scaling will be a bit wonky on this, as well. Like just because the Ashimmu gets an old-school nos won't make it worth flying - it's still going to be trash-tier. Back in the day old style nos was super super OP, I'll give you that. But the meta back then was completely different. ASBs didn't exist, damps were super god tier, jams were super god tier, ludicrous speeds were everywhere, and all webs were 90%, and cruise hit small ships like a sack of bricks. I'm not saying the nos bonus is bad, per se, but I honestly don't think it'll be enough to make the Ashimmu worth flying like, ever.
Worm is neat. Maybe OP neat - 8 effective drones is a lot of effective drones considering you can only reduce the incoming DPS if you kill 4 effective drones in one go. Like if I did 3 drones worth of damage to one yoked out Worm drone I'd still be getting blasted in the face with 8 drones worth of deeps. Cool none the less.
Scaling wise, the Gila lost favor over the Ishtar for a few reasons. Ishtar had really ******..kinda everything, but mostly CPU and tank. It simply couldn't do the same DEEPS as a Gila. Then the new and imporved Ishtar came along and had beastmode drones and effective tank in the MWD/sig bonus thing. Sentries that could track as well as a cruiser, but deal enough damage (at range) as a battleship, while being moderately survivable. Bingo.
As for Rattlesnake vs Domi - again the Domi does more effective DPS from 0-~70km ( Domi - Garde II - 50km optimal, .057 tracking vs RS - Curator II - 52.5 km optimal, .024 tracking), but the RS does have a bigger tank (at the expense of a nearly 80% higher sig when both are fit). Scaling wise, at the BS level the 4% resist bonus is significant. The fact that Domis get [b]140% better tracking[/b[, however, does complicate things for sure.
With regards to the Serpentis ships - I'm with you that the Daredevil is good. The web bonus is nice, it deals huge amounts of deeps, and is dead sexy.
Angels, too, are right on par. I think the combination Dram-Cynabal-Mach is far and away the best in terms of balance and usefulness of all the pirate races. Some races have one or two really nice ones, but all three of these seem to fit a great niche.
Right now if I were to rank the collective pirate races on their ship it would be
Angel > Serpentis >> Guristas >>> Sansha > Blood
Post patch it would probably be (assuming the same changes are made to the cruiser and bs hulls)
Angel > Serpentis > Guristas > Sansha >> Blood.
Same order, just smaller gaps.
Excited to spend more time fiddling with the fits and playing around with them on SiSi, though.
~ |

Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2308
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 01:14:00 -
[625] - Quote
Yazzinra wrote:
AFs were deemed overpowered with half the current succubus afterburner bonus. This could really use an answer.
They also have a much higher resist profile and higher damage output as well, whereas this particular ship has none of that. Those two things combined to make it just too much on the AF hull. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|

Kapytul Gaynez
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 01:14:00 -
[626] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Kapytul Gaynez wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:of course it's bad. drones are supposed to be pretty much ewar-proof. Drones are pretty much EWAR proof, that doesn't mean they are supposed to be. I don't believe I have ever seen a Dev say that they want drones to be immune to EWAR. that would make no sense. combat drones need love, not to be made less interesting and worse.
Combat drones might need a little love. Different and interesting bonuses are a step in that direction. Not having them get one shot by smart bombs is a buff imo. |

Aglais
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
471
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 01:15:00 -
[627] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Aglais wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:
I've already answered this, being better is different from being fun, and for me the fun of the Worm is the fact you can use 5 drones with 5 spare on a shield tanked frigate.
I don't know, the fact that if I'm right I'll be doing ~215 DPS while still having top tier tank in the frigate class is going to be more fun than the slightly anemic Worm of now. The new Worm is, in terms of stats, objectively superior to the old one. More fitting, more DPS, (slightly) more tank, it's faster... You don't seem to get it, i couldn't careless if the new Worm can do 300 dps, that's irrelevant for me, if i want to fly overpowered ships i would just go ahead and fly one. The fact that i can't use 5 drones and 5 spares ruin the fun of this ship for me.
Can I have yours then? |

Silivar Karkun
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
163
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 01:21:00 -
[628] - Quote
still on the side that Sansha ships should have a tracking disruption bonus instead of the AB bonus, yeah you can get good speeds with the AB but get webbed and the show stops, while with the other you get webbed but the enemy has its optimal and tracking ****** so it will be hard for it to get you, in fact, if you can get it tracking jammed before you're sold.... |

Seamus Donohue
EVE University Ivy League
43
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 01:22:00 -
[629] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:note: Energy Vampires operate as though your capacitor is empty "Role Bonus: Energy Vampires always operate regardless of how much capacitor you and your target have." Survivor of Teskanen. -áFan of John Rourke.
I have video tutorials for EVE Online on my YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/SeamusDonohueEVE |

Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
54
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 01:41:00 -
[630] - Quote
I like the new Worm. It's interesting & different without looking OP. The old one was meh.
I've also always wanted a reason to fly the Phantasm. I'm curious about the exact stats, but I think I might shortly have a reason to fly one... |
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