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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 24 post(s)
Nicen Jehr Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 373	Posted - 2014.03.20 15:57:00 - [91] - Quote CCP Ytterbium wrote: We tried to find a term that would encompess both reprocessing and refining, but with no avail. The Diamond Age refers to it as 'molecular disassembly' which is obviously a mouthful desynthesize decompose dismantle deconstruct disintegrate or if you want to coin a term: defabricate dematerialize FWIW I think reprocess is the best choice because everyone already recognizes it and it's close enough in meaning to both cases. Surely the ore/ice has already been 'processed' to some degree since it's being vaporized and sucked along a laser beam or something... as far as I can tell it's not like you are actually taking a hammer and smashing up a chunk of asteroid Little Things to improve GëíGïüGëí-á\| My Little Things posts

CCP Ytterbium C C P C C P Alliance 3225	Posted - 2014.03.20 15:58:00 - [92] - Quote Janine Ibanez wrote: Right now the ore compression BPOs each require the corresponding ore reprocessing skill to level 4 to use the BPO in a rorqual. Currently, you don't need any refining or reprocessing skills to do ore compression, just some 425mm BPOs and production efficiency level 5. Will the ore reprocessing skill requirements be going away to use the compression arrays along with the compression BPOs, or will anyone planning to do compression also have to train the relevant ore reprocessing skills? We're not planning on having skills to be able to compress ores in the Rorqual / Starbase Compression Arrays so far. Just right-click the ore and get bacon. Again, this may change depending on time / feedback though.

Opner Dresden Lugus Foundry The Serenity Initiative 0	Posted - 2014.03.20 16:00:00 - [93] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Dis gone be good. Seriously though industrialists everywhere rejoice. I spend 10 hours a day mining in null, I build everything from frigates to titans... this change is pretty much ****. SERIOUSLY... it's not broken, fix something else.
Apollo Purvon School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 0	Posted - 2014.03.20 16:01:00 - [94] - Quote Why is alchemy refining not included at the refining array?
Orion Guardian 199	Posted - 2014.03.20 16:01:00 - [95] - Quote So just to be clear: AS the "Volume" column of compressed ores is not present in "after" the ONLY thing changing for Rorqual compressing is the added 38.1% of minerals which is doen to EVERY ore anyway. So the volume stays the same, the time needed to compress (which is far too long for Ice nowadays) stay the same and the overall yield is just kept "the same" as well? (Ice has a crappy compress rate anyway) So....where does this include a boost to compression? The only thing it does is make compression via POS and Rorqual mandatory which is kinda of a boost for them but nerf for everyone else. Either change the volumes of the compressed batches as well to be viable and the time to compress itself as well..
Rivr Luzade Coreli Corporation Ineluctable. 287	Posted - 2014.03.20 16:01:00 - [96] - Quote And what about mineral compression?
Reizak StormFury Engineering Evolutions Limited Gatekeepers Universe 18	Posted - 2014.03.20 16:01:00 - [97] - Quote CCP Ytterbium wrote: Janine Ibanez wrote: Right now the ore compression BPOs each require the corresponding ore reprocessing skill to level 4 to use the BPO in a rorqual. Currently, you don't need any refining or reprocessing skills to do ore compression, just some 425mm BPOs and production efficiency level 5. Will the ore reprocessing skill requirements be going away to use the compression arrays along with the compression BPOs, or will anyone planning to do compression also have to train the relevant ore reprocessing skills? We're not planning on having skills to be able to compress ores in the Rorqual / Starbase Compression Arrays so far. Just right-click the ore and get bacon. Again, this may change depending on time / feedback though. So does these changes effectively mean that if you have access to a POS (in high, low or null), then you can refine with a ~70-75% (can't remember the exact figure), and compress ore without any skill training whatsoever? Whereas people who refine ores in a high/low sec station have to spend half a year training, and still struggle to get comparable refining rates?
Gilbaron Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda 1233	Posted - 2014.03.20 16:03:00 - [98] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: Yes but it is probably the most profitable thing a new player can do when they just start out, they're introduced very early on in the tutorials and they give them a good stable income (about 2 million an hour) while their training up for other stuff like combat ships. If they aren't making much money then their going to give up. they aren't training other skills. they are training for barges and the perfect refine. because they don't feel ready for pvp. takes an organisation like brave newbies to change that mindset. brave newbies is probably the best thing that happened to eve on the player side in a looooooooong time. GRRR Goons
Cylin Rath 10	Posted - 2014.03.20 16:03:00 - [99] - Quote Now if you could add a reprocessing input category of corpse and an output category of implants I would be overjoyed.
Emilia Istis Alter Ego Inc. 1	Posted - 2014.03.20 16:03:00 - [100] - Quote From what I understand rorqual is a tool to compress and transport large quantities of ore from null to hi. and what will be a tool to carry them from hi to null after the change, will no longer be used all methods of compression, ie 425 railgun is there any plan to allow transportation tritanium from hi to null, as you know there is a little veldspar in hull transporting minerals from high to null becomes a real pain in the ..

Weaselior GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 6674	Posted - 2014.03.20 16:04:00 - [101] - Quote The table does not have the new volumes of compressed ore. Is that deliberate? Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division: "We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half."
Weaselior GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 6674	Posted - 2014.03.20 16:05:00 - [102] - Quote Opner Dresden wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Dis gone be good. Seriously though industrialists everywhere rejoice. I spend 10 hours a day mining in null, I build everything from frigates to titans... this change is pretty much ****. SERIOUSLY... it's not broken, fix something else. i'm sure you mine for 10h each day and maybe make frigates in highsec but i'm quite sure the rest is a lie Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division: "We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half."
Plug in Baby Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber 159	Posted - 2014.03.20 16:07:00 - [103] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Dis gone be good. Seriously though industrialists everywhere rejoice. If by everywhere you mean sov null then yes. They can enjoy being the only region of space that can build anything bigger than a BS without throwing away 100s m ISK at a time. This is not a forum alt, this is a forum main.
Jagoff Haverford Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team 55	Posted - 2014.03.20 16:08:00 - [104] - Quote CCP Ytterbium wrote: We're not planning on having skills to be able to compress ores in the Rorqual / Starbase Compression Arrays so far. Just right-click the ore and get bacon. Again, this may change depending on time / feedback though. This makes little sense. You have a huge set of changes which tell the player base to train the refining skills. And then you turn around and make the skills irrelevant for refining at POSs and for compressing ore. I have an alt that I've been training to sit in a Rorqual. He wasn't going to do refining per se; I have another character that already had refining skills. He was just going to sit in the Rorqual and compress things. A very large portion of his skill queue was dedicated to getting all of these refining skills up to level 4 so that he could compress every kind of ore. Now you are telling me that all of that time (and money) was wasted, since he won't need these skills. Don't invalidate months of training that just about every Rorqual character has done. If ore-specific refining skills are going to become important, then at least let them retain the little bit of importance that they already had!
Orion Guardian 199	Posted - 2014.03.20 16:09:00 - [105] - Quote Oh Yeah and second: Yes nice that you can compress the ore at the same mineral/volume ratio as before (in absolute numbers) but that does change SQUAT for minerals...425mms were used to export MINERALS to nullsec, so we should import ORE to nullsec now instead? hoping that miners do not refine it and sell the minerals? I mean, how stupid is that? Yes compression of ore might be 'boosted' or at least be kept similar, but compressing the minerals again is made completely useless: That just means nullsec manufacturing WILL take a hit! [think about how easy it is to buy minerals in Highsec and how unlikely it is to have the same amount or ore bought....] I am not sure, maybe I missed something or this is a very very stupid way to "boost" something...
Neki Koskanaiken Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2014.03.20 16:09:00 - [106] - Quote Many short sighted industrialists might QQ over this but let me assure you this is a very good change. It will improve the health of EVE in so many ways, it's blowing my mind.
Paul Otichoda Mine Your 0wn Business Brothers of Tangra 210	Posted - 2014.03.20 16:09:00 - [107] - Quote Gilbaron wrote: Paul Otichoda wrote: Yes but it is probably the most profitable thing a new player can do when they just start out, they're introduced very early on in the tutorials and they give them a good stable income (about 2 million an hour) while their training up for other stuff like combat ships. If they aren't making much money then their going to give up. they aren't training other skills. they are training for barges and the perfect refine. because they don't feel ready for pvp. takes an organisation like brave newbies to change that mindset. brave newbies is probably the best thing that happened to eve on the player side in a looooooooong time. Isn't that habit going to get even worse? I freely admit I trained for a mining barge because they're the cheapest/quickest way for a solo player to see a big jump in revenue but I didn't spend a lot of time training the refining skills now people will have to train for them to get a good refine level. CCP would force people going down this route to either sell the ore at a reduced price or waste time training the refining skills up
June Ting Valkyries of Night Of Sound Mind 66	Posted - 2014.03.20 16:10:00 - [108] - Quote Please, think of the NPC null and lowsec dwellers. This change makes alchemy impossible for anyone outside of sovnull, unless NPC null and NPC low stations are buffed to have better refine rates than NPC high, which is the benchmark comparison for these changes to sovnull. Why? Profit margin on a typical high-profit (e.g. worth doing) alchemy reaction worth doing is about 20-25% before fuel costs (see https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/reactions/), and about 10% after fuel costs of ~200M per month per reaction are accounted for. If NPC null and low yields are kept in lockstep with NPC high yields at 50% base, scrap metal processing with perfect skills will yield 55% in NPC null, and 62% on a double-upgraded Minmatar outpost. This means that those with access to a double-upgraded Minmatar outpost anywhere they have docking rights (and with alchemy output so small, it actually is quite feasible to get the outputs there regardless of distance from POS being maintained) will have alchemy yields that are nearly 13% better than those of NPC null and NPC low dwellers. In a competitive market, this would result in a supply glut from sovnull dwellers, bringing profit margins down to 0% or negative for those without sovnull access, while maintaining existing net profit margins of 10-15% for sovnull dwellers. The relative scarcity of double-upgraded Minmatar outposts does not matter -- you only need one dockable to you within the nearest 3-4 regions to attain these types of yields. As it is, with the sov fuel bonus giving sovnull dwellers a 50M isk per month advantage per reaction line, many reactions are profitable only in sov null and not in NPC low/null. This would be fine on its own, but I'm worried that the combination one-two punch will completely eliminate the incentive to do this form of industry in NPC low/null. I feel that a base refine of 56-58% would be appropriate for NPC null stations, and a base refine of 53-54% would be appropriate for NPC low stations -- it gives some advantage to double or triple upgraded sovnull stations, while not entirely stamping out reaction farming for those who choose not to dwell in sovnull. I fight for the freedom of my people.
Yeck Dethahal Khanid Constructions The Volition Cult 5	Posted - 2014.03.20 16:10:00 - [109] - Quote I guess we will see a lot more neutral freighters in Providence
Weaselior GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 6674	Posted - 2014.03.20 16:10:00 - [110] - Quote Orion Guardian wrote: [think about how easy it is to buy minerals in Highsec and how unlikely it is to have the same amount or ore bought....] and now this will change, obviously think a little more Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division: "We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half."

Orion Guardian 199	Posted - 2014.03.20 16:10:00 - [111] - Quote Neki Koskanaiken wrote: Many short sighted industrialists might QQ over this but let me assure you this is a very good change. It will improve the health of EVE in so many ways, it's blowing my mind. Well it is a small boost for Ore -> Minerals at some point, but why should they rejoice when there is NO WAY to compress minerals for good transportation?
Opner Dresden Lugus Foundry The Serenity Initiative 0	Posted - 2014.03.20 16:11:00 - [112] - Quote MeBiatch wrote: Xayo 204 wrote: brb relisting some caps... Max refine rate you can get on 425mm rails is 55% now? O god what did you do..? all those poor cap builders will need to do so many extra trips. too many caps anyways... maybe this will help localize mining to the place caps are built? SCREW YOU... Do you have any idea how horrible the mineral balance is across eve for any serious production. All this did was make my life considerably more difficult (having to haul around and compress ore in a POS) for zero gain in a profession that's already unpopular because of the interpersonal requirements (blues, station rights, mining security) and capital investments (JF, Rorqual, POS). Now I get another POS to maintain in HS (oh joy)
Steve Ronuken Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM 2898	Posted - 2014.03.20 16:14:00 - [113] - Quote Unable to refine ore for profit? Sell it, so someone else refines it. Where's it written that Miners have to be the ones who refine ore? Especially newbie miners? Steve Ronuken for CSM 9! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4236322 http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Reizak StormFury Engineering Evolutions Limited Gatekeepers Universe 18	Posted - 2014.03.20 16:15:00 - [114] - Quote Orion Guardian wrote: Neki Koskanaiken wrote: Many short sighted industrialists might QQ over this but let me assure you this is a very good change. It will improve the health of EVE in so many ways, it's blowing my mind. Well it is a small boost for Ore -> Minerals at some point, but why should they rejoice when there is NO WAY to compress minerals for good transportation? I think you'll find that with simpler and more accessible compression, you won't need to export minerals from high to null. You'll transport compressed minerals instead.
Orion Guardian 199	Posted - 2014.03.20 16:15:00 - [115] - Quote Weaselior wrote: Orion Guardian wrote: [think about how easy it is to buy minerals in Highsec and how unlikely it is to have the same amount or ore bought....] and now this will change, obviously think a little more I did, and yes it will change, but seeing the high Mineral consumption in Highsec I am not sure it will change much. Unless I am missing the point: Nullsec is not the biggest user of Minerals in itself (most of it is build in Highsec after all). So the Minerals are needed there as well. So if the stuff is left as ore to be exported to nullsec it is missing as potential quick sold stock in high. It gets alot more complex and the missing part of converting minerals back into a compressed state (The compressed ore -> Mineral side is quite easy, the backward-reaction that used to be Module compression is negated.) The economic system will adapt, but like a chemical reaction: If the backward path is completely blocked there are consequences far greater than just "tweaking the system"
Opner Dresden Lugus Foundry The Serenity Initiative 0	Posted - 2014.03.20 16:15:00 - [116] - Quote Neki Koskanaiken wrote: Many short sighted industrialists might QQ over this but let me assure you this is a very good change. It will improve the health of EVE in so many ways, it's blowing my mind. No, this will effectively kill low/null sec industry completely... driving out users of high quantities of high sec minerals, titans/supers will get more expensive relative to build cost (good) but the value of the minerals will go down considerably as supply overwhelms demand... then people will stop mining... then it will all balance... and we'll be right back where we are now value wise (relative to inflation). Only the playstyle I've trained for and built my entire game around, just got kicked in the balls for zero benefit.
Gilbaron Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda 1233	Posted - 2014.03.20 16:15:00 - [117] - Quote Paul Otichoda wrote: Isn't that habit going to get even worse? I freely admit I trained for a mining barge because they're the cheapest/quickest way for a solo player to see a big jump in revenue but I didn't spend a lot of time training the refining skills now people will have to train for them to get a good refine level. CCP would force people going down this route to either sell the ore at a reduced price or waste time training the refining skills up maxed refine in a highsec NPC station: 72.4% (and that is with perfect skills, standings and an implant) maxed refine in a highsec POS: 75.3% (without any skills) i don't think that's the perfect way to do it, having invested so much time and skills should give you something better than a POS could. but that's up to CCP to decide. i'm gonna be busy finding a nice nullsec system to run my heavy industry in. GRRR Goons
Rivr Luzade Coreli Corporation Ineluctable. 287	Posted - 2014.03.20 16:16:00 - [118] - Quote Reizak StormFury wrote: I think you'll find that with simpler and more accessible compression, you won't need to export minerals from high to null. You'll transport compressed minerals instead. Compressed minerals don't work any more after this.
Rastaf Arian Dead Lobster 2	Posted - 2014.03.20 16:16:00 - [119] - Quote I forsee a large drop in the value of mission salvage and loot, this greatly reducing high sec mission running income. There is little point missioning in low and null due to the ease of killing battleships with cheap hulls. I think the ramifications of this will be farther reaching than anticipated.
Reizak StormFury Engineering Evolutions Limited Gatekeepers Universe 18	Posted - 2014.03.20 16:17:00 - [120] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: Reizak StormFury wrote: I think you'll find that with simpler and more accessible compression, you won't need to export minerals from high to null. You'll transport compressed minerals instead. Compressed minerals don't work any more after this. I mis-typed. See my edited post.



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