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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 24 post(s) |
Marcia en Welle
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.03.20 18:36:00 -
[271] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:Raquel Smith wrote:Bienator II wrote:Quote:Any item not part of the two categories mentioned earlier (like ships and modules) will only be affected by the Scrapmetal Processing skil so please disconnect the scrapmetal skill from the other dependencies. New players should not have to waste SP on ore reprocessing skills to be able rise efficiency of module reprocessing. I did this many, many years ago to get access to Scrapmetal Processing. What a kick in the teeth. yeah same here. Its one of the skills i am 100% sure i will never need once the change is made since i simple don't mine. Just fix it for the new players at least Why not just improve it to at least add something other than a minuscule 5% extra. Or is there any particular reason why CCP has gone for the arbitrary value of 55% as the maximum. Increasing it to at least 60% would give some reason to still have the skill. |
Kadl
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
86
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Posted - 2014.03.20 18:38:00 -
[272] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:One thing though, I'm concerned about compression in highsec needing a POS. The issue is that when you're transporting to a pos, you can't outsource: I have to do the hauling myself instead of courier contracts or the like. That puts a big dampner on the ability of compression to get done and done well, which has a real risk of throwing wrenches in the gears of nullsec industry as compression just can't keep up. I think it would make more sense for compression to be a station activity (though in station perhaps it does take time).
Compression is going to be fast and simple right? Right click and compress. The time involved is all about transporting the minerals to a POS or Rocqual. Instead of an industrial corporation running many mineral compression jobs (425mm ...) you have the mining corporation using their pos to run the compression module. Someone sits there and compresses the corporation's earnings. Miners in the corp are paid for their ore at fair rates, but the corporation makes money on the compression and transport. I don't see the POS requirement limiting your compression rates since you are removing a more complicated process of industrial building.
Of course there are some additional potential side effects: high sec mining corporations taking over the compression business. These organizations can buy minerals from their miners like they already do and then compress them for a slightly added value. So this will support more high sec mining corporations, but that is not bad right? If you really must buy uncompressed ore and compress it yourself you will have to setup a POS but that is your choice in vertically integrating and eliminates the industrial mineral compressors anyway so you have a better time.
One oddity I have seen is that Rocquals will be able to compress lots of minerals all at once and without the costs of a POS. Currently Rocquals are confined to a POS for safety, but the POS could be doing something else as well. This means that Rocquals have a slight cost advantage over the POS conversion method. |
Seismic Stan
Freebooted Junkworks
462
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Posted - 2014.03.20 18:38:00 -
[273] - Quote
I don't like it - mainly because I don't understand it.
If I did, I'd probably love it.
;) EVE Online: The Text Adventure --- GameSkinny Correspondent --- Freebooted Blogger |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
2903
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Posted - 2014.03.20 18:41:00 -
[274] - Quote
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mZSNGLaxi1A-Q818nApcJ2kNJOfnJmhcAcYn-mulzEU/edit?usp=sharing
Ores, before and after.
You'll want to take a copy of it, so you can adjust the numbers for efficiency and so on. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4236322 http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14177
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Posted - 2014.03.20 18:42:00 -
[275] - Quote
Seismic Stan wrote:I don't like it - mainly because I don't understand it.
If I did, I'd probably love it.
;)
That's a succint summary of 90% of the complaints in this thread.
1 Kings 12:11
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Sir HyperChrist
Persnickety Pilots
25
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Posted - 2014.03.20 18:43:00 -
[276] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Sir HyperChrist wrote:Weaselior wrote:Sir HyperChrist wrote: However for the first part: if I area-buy compressed ores, someone else is doing the same tedious stuff, which makes it more expensive. The end result is the same.
you pay them part of the profit from your better refines, and you both profit We both lose compared to the current game...... you just admitted you gain by your increased yield
LMAO, an 8% yield increase everyone building capitals in lowsec or nullsec gets, it's only a profit when compared to station reprocessing which is slightly less tedious
it's a loss compared to the current game either way |
Mukuro Gravedigger
Republic University Minmatar Republic
33
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Posted - 2014.03.20 18:45:00 -
[277] - Quote
Years ago, being young and foolish (compared to now being old and foolish), I trained all the processing skills to level five, even the scrap metal skill, since I was under the initial impression these skills were a requirement to crush asteroids into minerals. That is, without the skill, the station would not let you reprocess the rock.
If I am reading this blog correctly, even though I am "perfect" in these skills, I will have to now accept a loss - interesting. Yet the overall boost in output may or may not compensate (I have not crunched the numbers, much less if others have yet) to see if this is a balance. Also, is CCP changing the size of the asteroids when they reconfigure reprocessing to be in 100 amount batches? Might have missed that skimming through all of this.
Heh - "Even though you have all your gunnery skills and expanded skills maxed out, the best you can get is around 75% efficiency shooting them. So every one out of four shots may or may not jam your gun for a round."
More "work" for a game... |
Marcia en Welle
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2014.03.20 18:45:00 -
[278] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mZSNGLaxi1A-Q818nApcJ2kNJOfnJmhcAcYn-mulzEU/edit?usp=sharing
Ores, before and after.
You'll want to take a copy of it, so you can adjust the numbers for efficiency and so on. So seems like a slight buff to ore values. |
sudobaal theblooded
Public Embarrasment Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
2
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Posted - 2014.03.20 18:47:00 -
[279] - Quote
but then will this revamp also mean that if you get max skills in reprocessing you get more yeild out of your crystals also ? or is that part not changed?? |
Sir HyperChrist
Persnickety Pilots
26
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Posted - 2014.03.20 18:48:00 -
[280] - Quote
I'm just wondering: why does 1 unit of ore, esp compressed veldspar, yield more volume worth of minerals? It's unnatural, unless the tritanium itself is honeycombed or something.
If all intermediary materials were volume and density consistent, there would be no need for compression and stuff: the refined end material would always be best for transportation.
I suggest making all minerals 20 times less volume, so 20 times more dense, and then get rid of both compressing using guns, and compressors in posses or rorquals. It deletes a lot of "Tedious" from the game..... |
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Soaran Sikadi
Valkyries of Night Of Sound Mind
8
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Posted - 2014.03.20 18:52:00 -
[281] - Quote
This seems like a huge nerf for alchemy done outside of sov null. While Ytterbium is going to fix the 50% drop in yield in all alchemy, the lack of a strong refining station is going to hit alchemy especially hard. This is in part because the refining array module only gives its balancing high efficiency refines to ore and ice. This seems to cut into the ability to run alchemy reactions of non-sovholders pretty heavy, by giving the max base refine for them as 50%. The sovholders already have a fuel bonus in producing the reacted goo, and are now getting an additional (relative) bonus due to having much higher potential refine.
My understanding is that the primary purpose of this change is to nerf mineral compression and buff local mining/industry, but it seems that alchemy as a whole was not properly considered in this rebalance, especially considering the earlier oversight with ore/ice having yields increased at the same rate as alchemy products.
I feel that the proposed changes should probably gone over with a fresh eye to consider what effect each change will have on it, especially as one of the main purposes of alchemy's introduction was to break up large moon cartels. Giving sov null a heavy bonus to the alchemy means that they can at any time price e.g. npcnull out of running these reactions, making it potentially ineffective.
tl;dr This nerfs alchemy extremely hard for anyone who does not hold sov. I don't think this was intentional. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
201
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Posted - 2014.03.20 18:55:00 -
[282] - Quote
You can summarize a lot of the complaints in this thread with the phrase, "this change nerfs playing eve alone." To that, I say good -- eve is a terrible game without other people. Anything that encourages people to band into player groups can only help the game's health overall. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6691
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Posted - 2014.03.20 18:55:00 -
[283] - Quote
SOV OUTPOST UPGRADES DO NOT AFFECT ALCHEMY REFINES OR ANY OTHER SCRAPMETAL REFINES AND EVERYONE DOES THOSE AT EXACTLY THE SAME % STOP WHINING ABOUT ALCHEMY
(except 30% npc stations lawl) Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
201
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Posted - 2014.03.20 18:56:00 -
[284] - Quote
Soaran Sikadi wrote:This seems like a huge nerf for alchemy done outside of sov null. While Ytterbium is going to fix the 50% drop in yield in all alchemy, the lack of a strong refining station is going to hit alchemy especially hard. This is in part because the refining array module only gives its balancing high efficiency refines to ore and ice. This seems to cut into the ability to run alchemy reactions of non-sovholders pretty heavy, by giving the max base refine for them as 50%. The sovholders already have a fuel bonus in producing the reacted goo, and are now getting an additional (relative) bonus due to having much higher potential refine.
My understanding is that the primary purpose of this change is to nerf mineral compression and buff local mining/industry, but it seems that alchemy as a whole was not properly considered in this rebalance, especially considering the earlier oversight with ore/ice having yields increased at the same rate as alchemy products.
I feel that the proposed changes should probably gone over with a fresh eye to consider what effect each change will have on it, especially as one of the main purposes of alchemy's introduction was to break up large moon cartels. Giving sov null a heavy bonus to the alchemy means that they can at any time price e.g. npcnull out of running these reactions, making it potentially ineffective.
tl;dr This nerfs alchemy extremely hard for anyone who does not hold sov. I don't think this was intentional. You are interpreting the changes incorrectly. All scrapmetal refines are hard locked at 50-55%. Outpost efficiency boosts do not affect scrap metal reprocessing.
e: ^^^^ :argh: This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Berluth Luthian
Meltdown.
180
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Posted - 2014.03.20 18:56:00 -
[285] - Quote
Isn't a lot of the nullsec production problem, partly a nullsec culture problem. When alliances are run from the mentality that 'every body in a CTA matters' then you sort of alienate really productive indy pilots. So it is up to null sec 'culture leaders' to empower their own industrial base. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
201
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Posted - 2014.03.20 18:58:00 -
[286] - Quote
Berluth Luthian wrote:Isn't a lot of the nullsec production problem, partly a nullsec culture problem. When alliances are run from the mentality that 'every body in a CTA matters' then you sort of alienate really productive indy pilots. So it is up to null sec 'culture leaders' to empower their own industrial base. Sounds like you need a better alliance. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Smoking Blunts
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
721
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Posted - 2014.03.20 18:59:00 -
[287] - Quote
so this is the industry revamp?
what about the terrible UI?
what about all the pointless clicking?
this is the result of the industry survey? really? OMG when can i get a pic here
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6691
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Posted - 2014.03.20 19:00:00 -
[288] - Quote
Smoking Blunts wrote:so this is the industry revamp?
what about the terrible UI?
what about all the pointless clicking?
this is the result of the industry survey? really? this is the first post about a patch three months away
stop acting like it is the entire patch you nutjob Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Mukuro Gravedigger
Republic University Minmatar Republic
34
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Posted - 2014.03.20 19:00:00 -
[289] - Quote
Sir HyperChrist wrote:I'm just wondering: why does 1 unit of ore, esp compressed veldspar, yield more volume worth of minerals? It's unnatural, unless the tritanium itself is "armor layered" or something. Since CCP seems to have a limited vocabulary and prefer blanket encasing various detailed words as but one word, I adjusted your quote and removed "honeycombed". |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
201
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Posted - 2014.03.20 19:00:00 -
[290] - Quote
Smoking Blunts wrote:so this is the industry revamp?
what about the terrible UI?
what about all the pointless clicking?
this is the result of the industry survey? really? Could I interest you in a "Jump To Conclusions" mat? This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
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Sir HyperChrist
Persnickety Pilots
26
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Posted - 2014.03.20 19:01:00 -
[291] - Quote
Querns wrote:You can summarize a lot of the complaints in this thread with the phrase, "this change nerfs playing eve alone." To that, I say good -- eve is a terrible game without other people. Anything that encourages people to band into player groups can only help the game's health overall.
yes! lets add more tedious stuff to divide amongst the people of EVE! |
Marcia en Welle
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2014.03.20 19:01:00 -
[292] - Quote
After some though I can see two major problems with these changes.
1. Although initially this change appears that it should help the Rorqual, by adding a POS structure which can do exactly the same thing without the cost of using fuel and going into industrial core mode, it is yet again is another kick in the teeth to the ship. Hopefully the whole issue of the Rorqual can be addressed at some point soon.
CCP Ytterbium wrote:That's ok, I'm apparently very good at confusing people.
NPC station base reprocessing rate can either be 35% or 50%. After the change, with max skills and the implant you will get 72.4% from a 50% base NPC station.
However, we wanted base Reprocessing Array rates to be higher than NPC stations, thus at 52 and 54%. However, since skills are not taken into account for those, we set them up to artificially count as if you have max skills + implant, thus giving them 75.3% and 78.1%.
Outposts will still be on top of those, with a base rate of 60% when fulling upgraded. As such, with max skills and the implant you'll get a maximum reprocessing rate of 86.8% there.
2. Although I am loving the changes to null sec outposts, it is absolutely silly that a maximum skilled refiner in a 50% station can get 72.4%, whereas a fresh newb with no skills at all can achieve 78.1% in a POS.
Two things I would change:
Bring low sec and null sec stations up to the current levels which the POS modules can achieve respectively.
Add the skill requirement for POS modules
.
Also I'd like to point out this is a massive buff to WH residents, perhaps unnecessarily seeing as CCP state that they do not want people living in WHs. Now WH residents will be able to cut themselves off almost completely.
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Alp Khan
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
9
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Posted - 2014.03.20 19:01:00 -
[293] - Quote
Querns wrote:You can summarize a lot of the complaints in this thread with the phrase, "this change nerfs playing eve alone." To that, I say good -- eve is a terrible game without other people. Anything that encourages people to band into player groups can only help the game's health overall.
Not every organization is blessed with the well oiled machine that I'm enjoying to be a part of called CFC.
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Smoking Blunts
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
721
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Posted - 2014.03.20 19:02:00 -
[294] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Smoking Blunts wrote:so this is the industry revamp?
what about the terrible UI?
what about all the pointless clicking?
this is the result of the industry survey? really? this is the first post about a patch three months away stop acting like it is the entire patch you nutjob
lol just asking questions, be nice to know there was more to the patch than a few number changes is all OMG when can i get a pic here
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14177
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Posted - 2014.03.20 19:04:00 -
[295] - Quote
Berluth Luthian wrote:Isn't a lot of the nullsec production problem, partly a nullsec culture problem. When alliances are run from the mentality that 'every body in a CTA matters' then you sort of alienate really productive indy pilots. So it is up to null sec 'culture leaders' to empower their own industrial base.
No, the nullsec production problem is caused by hi-sec having utter dominance in every conceivable industry advantage, to the point that the only people doing industry in null are either RPers, supercap builders or just plain bad at maths.
OK some hi bulk, low-value stuff gets built like ratting ammo and cap boosters, but even there the quantities are small compared to what gets imported.
1 Kings 12:11
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Max Kolonko
High Voltage Industries Ash Alliance
377
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Posted - 2014.03.20 19:04:00 -
[296] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:
You'll have to wait for a later blog to see what will be done about this.
hmmm NDA **** Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff? |
Jamie Clark
Zeonic Federation The Void Mandate
1
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Posted - 2014.03.20 19:05:00 -
[297] - Quote
so what happened to Medium Intensive Refining Array i keep reading and did not find any thing.
So can you change the ore sites back so you have to scan for them. That would make mining better again and get use of the pos refining in wh space.
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Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate Naquatech Syndicate
1501
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Posted - 2014.03.20 19:05:00 -
[298] - Quote
Looks nice |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
2906
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 19:07:00 -
[299] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Berluth Luthian wrote:Isn't a lot of the nullsec production problem, partly a nullsec culture problem. When alliances are run from the mentality that 'every body in a CTA matters' then you sort of alienate really productive indy pilots. So it is up to null sec 'culture leaders' to empower their own industrial base. No, the nullsec production problem is caused by hi-sec having utter dominance in every conceivable industry advantage, to the point that the only people doing industry in null are either RPers, supercap builders or just plain bad at maths. OK some hi bulk, low-value stuff gets built like ratting ammo and cap boosters, but even there the quantities are small compared to what gets imported.
This is where it's worth listening to the declarations of war podcast, for the industry panel that was recently recorded. It's not out yet, but it touches on this topic
(Malcanis isn't wrong.) Steve Ronuken for CSM 9! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4236322 http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
2906
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Posted - 2014.03.20 19:08:00 -
[300] - Quote
Jamie Clark wrote:so what happened to Medium Intensive Refining Array i keep reading and did not find any thing.
So can you change the ore sites back so you have to scan for them. That would make mining better again and get use of the pos refining in wh space.
Quote:That is why we are turning the previous Medium Intensive Refinery into a Compression Array that functions the same way that the Rorqual does.
From the dev blog Steve Ronuken for CSM 9! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4236322 http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
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