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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 24 post(s) |
Ms Michigan
Aviation Professionals for EVE The Diogenes Club
29
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Posted - 2014.03.20 15:06:00 -
[31] - Quote
::Slow clap::
I read this dev blog...and I am still in disbelief. Everything looks ::cough:: Awesome.
I think you actually managed to get this one right out of the gate.
For years it never occurred to me that reprocessing could have been made better. This dev blog exceeded my expectations and I am glad to hear it will fix many other problems in EVE. The UI interface looks amazing and worthwhile.
Am I right to assume, people can actually reprocess ore in a Wormhole now too without loss?
Holy $hit if that is correct. Now with increased risks mining in a WH, you can actually have something to balance it out. Awesome.
One more question:
"A character that has perfect skills / standings who reprocesses at a 50% station with all skills maxed but without the 4% implant will have 2.8% less reprocessed minerals than currently. Again, that is an intended behavior, as we want players to invest in reprocessing to get the most out of it."
Does this mean that you will HAVE To use implants to get 100%?
If so I disagree with this philosophy as the rest of the game does not work this way. I.e. People use implants mostly to make up for skills lacking and then sometimes to take it to 105% - not to get to 100%.
Please reconsider if that is the case...it is immersion breaking imho.
Thanks for a great dev blog and new summer feature though. My crew will really be looking forward to this. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6671
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 15:06:00 -
[32] - Quote
Great change.
What's happening to conquerable stations? Do conquerable refineries remain 50% (and un-upgradable) instantly rendering them obsolete? Do conquerable factories remain refinery-free? I understand if the answer is yes, too much trouble to fix them/balance them for too little gain but I'd like to make sure.
Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Bagehi
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
255
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 15:07:00 -
[33] - Quote
Plug in Baby wrote:Am I correct in thinking the vast majority of Capital manufacture will essentially be stopped by this?
I'm interested to know what % of capitals produced are made from reprocessed ores, I can imagine its pretty massive. Nope. Just means more runs into low sec because you can't run modules for compression. So you'll have to haul minerals to low sec, compress in a rorqual, haul to destination. Means more gank opportunities in low sec, more risk for producers, and higher capital prices. |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
3214
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 15:08:00 -
[34] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:I might have missed it, but do starbase refining arrays now take skills into consideration? Not for now, but they have been changed in such a way they give you 52 / 54% yield reprocess as if you had perfect skills, so that is a huge incentive to use them if you don't have all skills / implants trained. Ice will also be affected by it (no more 100% reprocess for ice in Starbase Reprocessing Arrays). This may change later on though. With the cost to operate and risk involved in using starbase refining arrays 52/54% seems a little low, I would think the optimal refining should need to be performed at player controlled structures and not NPC stations. This. Very much this. (I'm pretty certain this was talked about at the CSM9 industry panel that should be going up on Declarations of war (.com) soon)
There was a discussion on whereas player Outposts or Starbase Reprocessing Arrays should come out on top of the reprocessing race - so far we prefer Outpost to have the better rates since it's significantly more expensive to fully upgrade a Minmatar outpost to the last improvement.
But in all cases, Starbase Reprocessing Arrays are better than NPC stations. As mentioned before, we have authored the Starbase Reprocessing Array as if you had perfect skills; so in reality they give you a 75.3% and 78.1% reprocesing rate. |
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6671
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 15:09:00 -
[35] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote: With the cost to operate and risk involved in using starbase refining arrays 52/54% seems a little low, I would think the optimal refining should need to be performed at player controlled structures and not NPC stations.
They are better than all NPC stations.
I also think they're already somewhat high. I'm not a fan of skill-free refining that's as good as an upgraded outpost that costs something like 40b. This change is so far-reaching and great I don't want to complain but the refining arrays are certainly on the "good enough, probably too good" side and definitely not on the "needs a buff" side. Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1765
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 15:11:00 -
[36] - Quote
yay a dev blog... i was afraid i might have to work today... good to see i have distractions :) There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
2892
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 15:11:00 -
[37] - Quote
Bagehi wrote:Plug in Baby wrote:Am I correct in thinking the vast majority of Capital manufacture will essentially be stopped by this?
I'm interested to know what % of capitals produced are made from reprocessed ores, I can imagine its pretty massive. Nope. Just means more runs into low sec because you can't run modules for compression. So you'll have to haul minerals to low sec, compress in a rorqual, haul to destination. Means more gank opportunities in low sec, more risk for producers, and higher capital prices.
Nope.
You missed that the compression array can be stuck in a Highsec POS (and WH for that matter). So you can skip the Rorqual (Unless you're using it for hauling) Steve Ronuken for CSM 9! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4236322 http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Plug in Baby
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
157
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 15:12:00 -
[38] - Quote
Bagehi wrote:Plug in Baby wrote:Am I correct in thinking the vast majority of Capital manufacture will essentially be stopped by this?
I'm interested to know what % of capitals produced are made from reprocessed ores, I can imagine its pretty massive. Nope. Just means more runs into low sec because you can't run modules for compression. So you'll have to haul minerals to low sec, compress in a rorqual, haul to destination. Means more gank opportunities in low sec, more risk for producers, and higher capital prices.
I'm pretty sure those are reasons for plenty of people stopping building caps. I'm sure plenty of people will be thrilled to sit in freighters for hours at a time waiting for their defence fleet to get hot dropped just to build a week's worth of caps. This is not a forum alt, this is a forum main. |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
3214
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 15:12:00 -
[39] - Quote
Ms Michigan wrote:::Slow clap:: I read this dev blog...and I am still in disbelief. Everything looks ::cough:: Awesome. I think you actually managed to get this one right out of the gate. For years it never occurred to me that reprocessing could have been made better. This dev blog exceeded my expectations and I am glad to hear it will fix many other problems in EVE. The UI interface looks amazing and worthwhile. Am I right to assume, people can actually reprocess ore in a Wormhole now too without loss? Holy $hit if that is correct. Now with increased risks mining in a WH, you can actually have something to balance it out. Awesome. One more question: "A character that has perfect skills / standings who reprocesses at a 50% station with all skills maxed but without the 4% implant will have 2.8% less reprocessed minerals than currently. Again, that is an intended behavior, as we want players to invest in reprocessing to get the most out of it." Does this mean that you will HAVE To use implants to get 100%? If so I disagree with this philosophy as the rest of the game does not work this way. I.e. People use implants mostly to make up for skills lacking and then sometimes to take it to 105% - not to get to 100%. Please reconsider if that is the case...it is immersion breaking imho. Thanks for a great dev blog and new summer feature though. My crew will really be looking forward to this.
You will need the 4% reprocessing implant if you want to reach the old rates yes. We also discussed the point you mention, but in the end we didn't want to increase reprocessing rates for high-security NPC stations, and as such counted the implant as base for the change. |
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Raquel Smith
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
31
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Posted - 2014.03.20 15:16:00 -
[40] - Quote
Pretty miserable changes to Scrapmetal Processing. |
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Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1233
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 15:17:00 -
[41] - Quote
Plug in Baby wrote:Bagehi wrote:Plug in Baby wrote:Am I correct in thinking the vast majority of Capital manufacture will essentially be stopped by this?
I'm interested to know what % of capitals produced are made from reprocessed ores, I can imagine its pretty massive. Nope. Just means more runs into low sec because you can't run modules for compression. So you'll have to haul minerals to low sec, compress in a rorqual, haul to destination. Means more gank opportunities in low sec, more risk for producers, and higher capital prices. I'm pretty sure those are reasons for plenty of people stopping building caps. I'm sure plenty of people will be thrilled to sit in freighters for hours at a time waiting for their defence fleet to get hot dropped just to build a week's worth of caps.
you missed the part where you can compress minerals in a highsec pos with that new compression thingy. there will probably be a market for compressed ores in the future since they make life so much easier compared to minerals. GRRR Goons |
Ms Michigan
Aviation Professionals for EVE The Diogenes Club
29
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 15:17:00 -
[42] - Quote
Thanks for the reply Ytterbium.
What ARE the numbers on perfect refine in a Wormhole now?
Also - Dev blog lacking numbers on scrapmetal reprocessing maxed. Maybe I missed it. Big devblog. |
Javajunky
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
102
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 15:18:00 -
[43] - Quote
+1
Buying compressed ore and hauling it will be easier than buying the minerals and building guns. I haven't torn through all the numbers yet but this should make things a little more easier in terms of in game time spent doing silly shlt.
Looking forward breaking out the spreadsheets on this data after work. |
Jagoff Haverford
Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team
53
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 15:19:00 -
[44] - Quote
As someone who has done my fair share of bitching about changes made by CCP, I'm delighted by these changes. I'm sure there will be tweaks done here and there with the numbers, but the key thing is that refining in perfect safety within high sec stations will no longer be far better than refining in more dangerous places.
In keeping with the Rubicon theme, I think that the empires should also begin charging higher taxes in the high sec space that they control. Not only should the base tax rates go up, but the standing required to get optimal refining should be increased as well.
That might get some high sec panties in a bunch, I admit, but it should cost more to live in places where there are multiple stations in each system, stations contain both refineries and factory slots, and the police are out in force to punish anyone who shoots at you.
I also say this because these tax rates matter, and can be a draw for players to move outside of the safety and boredom of high sec. One of the things that pushed me into null sec several years ago was a large upward change to NPC Customs Office taxes. In an effort to avoid them, I found a group that was taking over a single system in null sec, and was promising a zero POCO tax rate for all my PI needs. The policy and the corp and the alliance didn't last long, but the seed was planted and I've lived in various parts of null ever since. |
Wibla
Tactical Narcotics Team
152
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 15:20:00 -
[45] - Quote
Quote:Player-built outposts are currently very biased regarding reprocessing. Minmatar outposts have a default 50% output and all others have 30%. Currently there is not much of a choice on that regard.
Minmatar outposts have a base rate of 35%, no?
Not many minmatar stations will be upgraded past the first level (currently giving 40% base yield and perfect refine/reproc with good skills and/or implants).
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
17252
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 15:20:00 -
[46] - Quote
A dev blog without graphs is not a proper dev blog
The UI mockup looks great, something similar would be nice for the Science and Industry interface, which has been the bane of industrialists everywhere for years
Psychotic Monk for CSM 9 |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
2485
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 15:20:00 -
[47] - Quote
Quote:Any item not part of the two categories mentioned earlier (like ships and modules) will only be affected by the Scrapmetal Processing skil
so please disconnect the scrapmetal skill from the other dependencies. New players should not have to waste SP on ore reprocessing skills to be able rise efficiency of module reprocessing. eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW |
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
579
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 15:20:00 -
[48] - Quote
Since i am not much into industry can someone explain me few things.
Can someone say in short did lowsec in any way get a buff from all of this.? And how i get perfect reprocessing rates in lowsec?
Tnx
BALEX is recruiting -----> tinyurl.com/oscmmlv |
Bagehi
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
255
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 15:20:00 -
[49] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Bagehi wrote:Plug in Baby wrote:Am I correct in thinking the vast majority of Capital manufacture will essentially be stopped by this?
I'm interested to know what % of capitals produced are made from reprocessed ores, I can imagine its pretty massive. Nope. Just means more runs into low sec because you can't run modules for compression. So you'll have to haul minerals to low sec, compress in a rorqual, haul to destination. Means more gank opportunities in low sec, more risk for producers, and higher capital prices. Nope. You missed that the compression array can be stuck in a Highsec POS (and WH for that matter). So you can skip the Rorqual (Unless you're using it for hauling) Ah. Good point. So, either a rorqual or you have to maintain a highsec POS. Highsec POS is probably preferable since the fewer runs into lowsec in freighters, the better. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2260
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 15:21:00 -
[50] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote: But in all cases, Starbase Reprocessing Arrays are better than NPC stations. As mentioned before, we have authored the Starbase Reprocessing Array as if you had perfect skills; so in reality they give you a 75.3% and 78.1% reprocesing rate.
I'm not understanding how, with perfect refining your chart says that you will refine in an NPC station @ 72.4% and starbase refining will be at 52/54% where is the extra 23% of yield coming from? Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
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Ms Michigan
Aviation Professionals for EVE The Diogenes Club
29
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 15:23:00 -
[51] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote: But in all cases, Starbase Reprocessing Arrays are better than NPC stations. As mentioned before, we have authored the Starbase Reprocessing Array as if you had perfect skills; so in reality they give you a 75.3% and 78.1% reprocesing rate.
I'm not understanding how, with perfect refining your chart says that you will refine in an NPC station @ 72.4% and starbase refining will be at 52/54% where is the extra 23% of yield coming from?
Ore amount increases? I am losing this point as well... |
mkint
1061
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 15:24:00 -
[52] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:Dis gone be good. Seriously though Roqual pilots everywhere rejoice.
Rejoice why? You're obsoleting the rorqual, not buffing it.
Rorqual: 1) can't go where miners mine 2) takes months of skills 3) expensive
POS mod 1) can go anywhere 2) no skills 3) pretty cheap
I guess rorqual will still be useful as a poor man's jump freighter, unless you decide to nerf that too. Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun. |
Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Black Core Alliance
1423
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 15:26:00 -
[53] - Quote
Everything here is win. Double win for Outpost / POS mod updates.
/enthusiasticallyapproved
Looking forward to Rorq changes later. GÇ£Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do. GÇ¥ - Dale Carnegie
Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour! |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1765
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 15:26:00 -
[54] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Any highsec miner whines that CCP is nerfing you, I'm siccing Miniluv on you.
why is your picture out of focus?
and the answer is my work computer is bad. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Albert Spear
meadhan oidhche cinneach Moist.
43
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Posted - 2014.03.20 15:26:00 -
[55] - Quote
As a career miner and a solo toon, I really like it.
It gives me reason to go into low sec and worm holes for the purpose of mining and refining.
Overall, running some simple math on the numbers, I doubt my income will take a huge hit, and loot from the wrecks in the belts will actually be helpful.
I am not thrilled about scrap metal, but I can deal with that particular change.
Overall a step in the right direction, now we just need to apply skills in Nul sec to refining and think about how this is going to impact freighter operations in high sec.
More compressed ore in high sec means fewer freighter runs in all probability and a need for a mid-sized cargo ship (e.g. in the 150-300,000 m3 range). |
Reizak StormFury
Engineering Evolutions Limited Gatekeepers Universe
18
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Posted - 2014.03.20 15:27:00 -
[56] - Quote
So...
The result of this is going to be:
1) An overall net loss in refining/reprocessing? Exacerbated when performed in an NPC station, compared to a POS.
2) POS refining array's are getting their cooldown slashed, so they actually get used, and used pretty damn effectively?
3) Prices for refined minerals will invariably go up as they become less common, resulting in an inflated price for just about everything else in the game?
From reading this article loosely, are all these assumptions correct?
If so, the increase to price sucks for new players who already have a hard time. |
Xayo 204
I don't pay tax to NPC
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 15:28:00 -
[57] - Quote
brb relisting some caps...
Max refine rate you can get on 425mm rails is 55% now? O god what did you do..? all those poor cap builders will need to do so many extra trips. |
Raath Nambode
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
38
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Posted - 2014.03.20 15:28:00 -
[58] - Quote
It was not a good time to buy and start researching 20 more 425 BPOs.
Wormhome Navigation - http://www.staticmapper.com Industrial Management - http://industry.darkshadowindustries.com Follow me on twitter https://twitter.com/staticmapper |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3287
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 15:29:00 -
[59] - Quote
So...
* Stop manufacturing 425mm Railguns, liquidate your inventory, and sell your BPO now. * Stock-up now on materials, because prices will be going-up, especially in the short-term until skills are trained to 5. * Stock-up now on refining arrays. * Stock-up on memory and intelligence attribute implants. * Stock-up on refining implants. * Sell your Rorqual now before everyone else does. Wait until it is more useful to buy one. [Opportunity cost.]
I probably missed a few.
This puts a major crimp in my training plans for several characters. I personally was going to remap in 19 hours to INT > MEM |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1765
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 15:30:00 -
[60] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:People who do mineral compression with modules. As they'll have a bunch of blueprints for things which aren't in huge demand any more. .
well its a good thing that the balance team are going to be working on modules pretty soon. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
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