Any plans to undo the Extra Materials hack for T1 production at any point?

I'm not sure I like changing all instances of Refining to Reprocessing.

It doesn't make sense to reprocess un-processed ore and ice.

Player-built outposts are currently very biased regarding reprocessing. Minmatar outposts have a default 50% output and all others have 30%. Currently there is not much of a choice on that regard.

In the same vein, there is not so much of an incentive to upgrade an outpost for better reprocessing yields, since perfect reprocessing rates are so easily achieved.

Yeah, I'd say that anything having to do with raw materials should be Refining, and anything having to do with Scrapmetal Processing should be Reprocessing.

Other than that nit (and my reflexive aversion to insta-refining)? These look like an excellent set of changes.

Yes, that is one discussion we internally had as well. We tried to find a term that would encompess both reprocessing and refining, but with no avail.

The point of merging those two terms however is to make it clear it is the same process and station facility / service ( you can't reprocess both ores and materials at the same time at the moment, and both "reprocess" and "refining" are appearing under the Star Map under the "service" tab).

I might have missed it, but do starbase refining arrays now take skills into consideration?

Any highsec miner whines that CCP is nerfing you, I'm siccing Miniluv on you.

The point of merging those two terms however is to make it clear it is the same process and station facility / service ( you can't reprocess both ores and materials at the same time at the moment, and both "reprocess" and "refining" are appearing under the Star Map under the "service" tab).

Not for now, but they have been changed in such a way they give you 52 / 54% yield reprocess as if you had perfect skills, so that is a huge incentive to use them if you don't have all skills / implants trained. Ice will also be affected by it (no more 100% reprocess for ice in Starbase Reprocessing Arrays).

This may change later on though.

With the cost to operate and risk involved in using starbase refining arrays 52/54% seems a little low, I would think the optimal refining should need to be performed at player controlled structures and not NPC stations.

Not for now, but they have been changed in such a way they give you 52 / 54% yield reprocess as if you had perfect skills, so that is a huge incentive to use them if you don't have all skills / implants trained. Ice will also be affected by it (no more 100% reprocess for ice in Starbase Reprocessing Arrays).

This may change later on though.

Am I correct in thinking the vast majority of Capital manufacture will essentially be stopped by this?

I'm interested to know what % of capitals produced are made from reprocessed ores, I can imagine its pretty massive.

This. Very much this.

(I'm pretty certain this was talked about at the CSM9 industry panel that should be going up on Declarations of war (.com) soon)

With the cost to operate and risk involved in using starbase refining arrays 52/54% seems a little low, I would think the optimal refining should need to be performed at player controlled structures and not NPC stations.

Nope. Just means more runs into low sec because you can't run modules for compression. So you'll have to haul minerals to low sec, compress in a rorqual, haul to destination. Means more gank opportunities in low sec, more risk for producers, and higher capital prices.

Nope. Just means more runs into low sec because you can't run modules for compression. So you'll have to haul minerals to low sec, compress in a rorqual, haul to destination. Means more gank opportunities in low sec, more risk for producers, and higher capital prices.

::Slow clap::


I read this dev blog...and I am still in disbelief. Everything looks ::cough:: Awesome.

I think you actually managed to get this one right out of the gate.

For years it never occurred to me that reprocessing could have been made better. This dev blog exceeded my expectations and I am glad to hear it will fix many other problems in EVE. The UI interface looks amazing and worthwhile.



Am I right to assume, people can actually reprocess ore in a Wormhole now too without loss?

Holy $hit if that is correct. Now with increased risks mining in a WH, you can actually have something to balance it out. Awesome.


One more question:

"A character that has perfect skills / standings who reprocesses at a 50% station with all skills maxed but without the 4% implant will have 2.8% less reprocessed minerals than currently. Again, that is an intended behavior, as we want players to invest in reprocessing to get the most out of it."

Does this mean that you will HAVE To use implants to get 100%?

If so I disagree with this philosophy as the rest of the game does not work this way. I.e. People use implants mostly to make up for skills lacking and then sometimes to take it to 105% - not to get to 100%.

Please reconsider if that is the case...it is immersion breaking imho.

Thanks for a great dev blog and new summer feature though. My crew will really be looking forward to this.

I'm pretty sure those are reasons for plenty of people stopping building caps. I'm sure plenty of people will be thrilled to sit in freighters for hours at a time waiting for their defence fleet to get hot dropped just to build a week's worth of caps.

Player-built outposts are currently very biased regarding reprocessing. Minmatar outposts have a default 50% output and all others have 30%. Currently there is not much of a choice on that regard.

Any item not part of the two categories mentioned earlier (like ships and modules) will only be affected by the Scrapmetal Processing skil

Nope.

You missed that the compression array can be stuck in a Highsec POS (and WH for that matter). So you can skip the Rorqual (Unless you're using it for hauling)

But in all cases, Starbase Reprocessing Arrays are better than NPC stations. As mentioned before, we have authored the Starbase Reprocessing Array as if you had perfect skills; so in reality they give you a 75.3% and 78.1% reprocesing rate.

I'm not understanding how, with perfect refining your chart says that you will refine in an NPC station @ 72.4% and starbase refining will be at 52/54% where is the extra 23% of yield coming from?

Dis gone be good. Seriously though Roqual pilots everywhere rejoice.

Any highsec miner whines that CCP is nerfing you, I'm siccing Miniluv on you.

People who do mineral compression with modules. As they'll have a bunch of blueprints for things which aren't in huge demand any more.
.

so please disconnect the scrapmetal skill from the other dependencies. New players should not have to waste SP on ore reprocessing skills to be able rise efficiency of module reprocessing.

well its a good thing that the balance team are going to be working on modules pretty soon.

There was a discussion on whereas player Outposts or Starbase Reprocessing Arrays should come out on top of the reprocessing race - so far we prefer Outpost to have the better rates since it's significantly more expensive to fully upgrade a Minmatar outpost to the last improvement.

But in all cases, Starbase Reprocessing Arrays are better than NPC stations. As mentioned before, we have authored the Starbase Reprocessing Array as if you had perfect skills; so in reality they give you a 75.3% and 78.1% reprocesing rate.

brb relisting some caps...



Max refine rate you can get on 425mm rails is 55% now? O god what did you do..? all those poor cap builders will need to do so many extra trips.

Ore amount increases? I am losing this point as well...

We all know that a lot of them make money from mining, processing and then selling the minerals or making stuff. If we undermine their ability to do this how many of them are going to stay around and get more into the game?

As such, to keep ratio fairly identical, we are going to boost all minerals and ice products gained by reprocessing ores and ices approximately by 38.1% (1/0.724). This will apply to all the unrefined alchemy material as well.

That's ok, I'm apparently very good at confusing people.

NPC station base reprocessing rate can either be 35% or 50%. After the change, with max skills and the implant you will get 72.4% from a 50% base NPC station.

However, we wanted base Reprocessing Array rates to be higher than NPC stations, thus at 52 and 54%. However, since skills are not taken into account for those, we set them up to artificially count as if you have max skills + implant, thus giving them 75.3% and 78.1%.

Outposts will still be on top of those, with a base rate of 60% when fulling upgraded. As such, with max skills and the implant you'll get a maximum reprocessing rate of 86.8% there.

Is that less confusing now?

Big changes coming!

That's ok, I'm apparently very good at confusing people.

NPC station base reprocessing rate can either be 35% or 50%. After the change, with max skills and the implant you will get 72.4% from a 50% base NPC station.

However, we wanted base Reprocessing Array rates to be higher than NPC stations, thus at 52 and 54%. However, since skills are not taken into account for those, we set them up to artificially count as if you have max skills + implant, thus giving them 75.3% and 78.1%.

Outposts will still be on top of those, with a base rate of 60% when fulling upgraded. As such, with max skills and the implant you'll get a maximum reprocessing rate of 86.8% there.

Is that less confusing now?

too many caps anyways... maybe this will help localalize mining to the place caps are built?

brb relisting some caps...



Max refine rate you can get on 425mm rails is 55% now? O god what did you do..? all those poor cap builders will need to do so many extra trips.

That's ok, I'm apparently very good at confusing people.

NPC station base reprocessing rate can either be 35% or 50%. After the change, with max skills and the implant you will get 72.4% from a 50% base NPC station.

However, we wanted base Reprocessing Array rates to be higher than NPC stations, thus at 52 and 54%. However, since skills are not taken into account for those, we set them up to artificially count as if you have max skills + implant, thus giving them 75.3% and 78.1%.

Outposts will still be on top of those, with a base rate of 60% when fulling upgraded. As such, with max skills and the implant you'll get a maximum reprocessing rate of 86.8% there.

Is that less confusing now?

Don't some FW stations get special reprocessing bonuses based on upgrade level?

which really is by far the most boring activity in eve. i guess more people quit because mining is boring than anything else.

(sadly) there are plenty people around that will buy ore or support newbie miners in mining corps.

We tried to find a term that would encompess both reprocessing and refining, but with no avail.

Right now the ore compression BPOs each require the corresponding ore reprocessing skill to level 4 to use the BPO in a rorqual.

Currently, you don't need any refining or reprocessing skills to do ore compression, just some 425mm BPOs and production efficiency level 5.

Will the ore reprocessing skill requirements be going away to use the compression arrays along with the compression BPOs, or will anyone planning to do compression also have to train the relevant ore reprocessing skills?

Dis gone be good. Seriously though industrialists everywhere rejoice.

We're not planning on having skills to be able to compress ores in the Rorqual / Starbase Compression Arrays so far. Just right-click the ore and get bacon. Again, this may change depending on time / feedback though.

Yes but it is probably the most profitable thing a new player can do when they just start out, they're introduced very early on in the tutorials and they give them a good stable income (about 2 million an hour) while their training up for other stuff like combat ships. If they aren't making much money then their going to give up.

I spend 10 hours a day mining in null, I build everything from frigates to titans... this change is pretty much ****. SERIOUSLY... it's not broken, fix something else.

Dis gone be good. Seriously though industrialists everywhere rejoice.

We're not planning on having skills to be able to compress ores in the Rorqual / Starbase Compression Arrays so far. Just right-click the ore and get bacon. Again, this may change depending on time / feedback though.

they aren't training other skills. they are training for barges and the perfect refine. because they don't feel ready for pvp. takes an organisation like brave newbies to change that mindset. brave newbies is probably the best thing that happened to eve on the player side in a looooooooong time.

[think about how easy it is to buy minerals in Highsec and how unlikely it is to have the same amount or ore bought....]

Many short sighted industrialists might QQ over this but let me assure you this is a very good change. It will improve the health of EVE in so many ways, it's blowing my mind.

too many caps anyways... maybe this will help localize mining to the place caps are built?

Well it is a small boost for Ore -> Minerals at some point, but why should they rejoice when there is NO WAY to compress minerals for good transportation?

and now this will change, obviously

think a little more

Many short sighted industrialists might QQ over this but let me assure you this is a very good change. It will improve the health of EVE in so many ways, it's blowing my mind.

Isn't that habit going to get even worse? I freely admit I trained for a mining barge because they're the cheapest/quickest way for a solo player to see a big jump in revenue but I didn't spend a lot of time training the refining skills now people will have to train for them to get a good refine level. CCP would force people going down this route to either sell the ore at a reduced price or waste time training the refining skills up

I think you'll find that with simpler and more accessible compression, you won't need to export minerals from high to null. You'll transport compressed minerals instead.

Compressed minerals don't work any more after this.

I did, and yes it will change, but seeing the high Mineral consumption in Highsec I am not sure it will change much. Unless I am missing the point: Nullsec is not the biggest user of Minerals in itself (most of it is build in Highsec after all). So the Minerals are needed there as well. So if the stuff is left as ore to be exported to nullsec it is missing as potential quick sold stock in high.

It gets alot more complex and the missing part of converting minerals back into a compressed state (The compressed ore -> Mineral side is quite easy, the backward-reaction that used to be Module compression is negated.) The economic system will adapt, but like a chemical reaction: If the backward path is completely blocked there are consequences far greater than just "tweaking the system"

i'm going to put up buy orders for compressed ore and pubbies will fill them, because the ore is worth 14.4% more to me than them

the way they get the MOST money is to compress it, or sell it to someone who will compress it

you're fixated on compressing minerals instead of buying pre-compressed ore

so please disconnect the scrapmetal skill from the other dependencies. New players should not have to waste SP on ore reprocessing skills to be able rise efficiency of module reprocessing.

There was a discussion on whereas player Outposts or Starbase Reprocessing Arrays should come out on top of the reprocessing race - so far we prefer Outpost to have the better rates since it's significantly more expensive to fully upgrade a Minmatar outpost to the last improvement.

But in all cases, Starbase Reprocessing Arrays are better than NPC stations. As mentioned before, we have authored the Starbase Reprocessing Array as if you had perfect skills; so in reality they give you a 75.3% and 78.1% reprocesing rate.

Yes, that is one discussion we internally had as well. We tried to find a term that would encompess both reprocessing and refining, but with no avail.

Not for now, but they have been changed in such a way they give you 52 / 54% yield reprocess as if you had perfect skills, so that is a huge incentive to use them if you don't have all skills / implants trained. Ice will also be affected by it (no more 100% reprocess for ice in Starbase Reprocessing Arrays).

This may change later on though.

Aside from other effects mentioned in this thread, the price of a lot of meta 1->3 items is going to plumet, since their value is mostly derived from their reprocessed materials. Any hike in mineral prices is very unlikely to compensate for a 45-50% loss in minerals, since the size of that mineral hike is very dependend on the amount of minerals injected into the mineral market via module repro vs. the amount injected via mining.

Any highsec miner whines that CCP is nerfing you, I'm siccing Miniluv on you.

Unable to refine ore for profit?

Sell it, so someone else refines it.

Where's it written that Miners have to be the ones who refine ore? Especially newbie miners?

You've made a mistake, here:



Because alchemy uses scrapmetal which is getting nerfed, you need to boost it by its own percentage (instead of the ore percentage) to get it back to where it is now.

one problem with that, generally I found that most ore buy orders were set about 10% below the regular market price for the ore while the minerals were generally much closer to the market value. There is nothing to stop a new syndicate forming that only buys ore at massively reduced price and then forcing the market price for the minerals up

one problem with that, generally I found that most ore buy orders were set about 10% below the regular market price for the ore while the minerals were generally much closer to the market value. There is nothing to stop a new syndicate forming that only buys ore at massively reduced price and then forcing the market price for the minerals up

Upping this. CCP, you either need to consider alchemy an ore (heck, give it his own refining skill !) or boost MORE alchemy reaction for unrefined products.

Otherwise you are NERFING alchemy reaction straight away. Oh, and yes, you are upping alchemy in 0.0 sov too.

currently, only idiots sell ore because it's so trivial to get 100% refines in highsec, so the ore buy orders have an idiot tax in

it'll narrow

Was it CCP's oversite or intent to make the Rorq completley useless? Compression with a Rorq requires Heavy Water and lots of time. Compression at the new POS module does not require Heavy water and is instant. Chances are the compression pos module well be MUCH cheaper than a rorq. Why on earth would anyone use a Rorq?

The rorqual is now instant as well. No idea about fuel use but keep in mind poses use fuel as well and they do it even when you're not compressing stuff ;)

Anyhow; CCP Ytterbium, can we pretty please get gas compression as well?

I would like their to be some static structures similar to POCO's that are owned by players in space near planets or something that can offer exceptional reprocessing efficiency but taxed by the owner.

Obviously, Hi sec would offer a small benefit. Low sec a really good benefit and null sect the best benefit.

Would drive conflict as people would like to have their own refineries in busy systems where volume of ore refined would be high.

i'm going to put up buy orders for compressed ore and pubbies will fill them, because the ore is worth 14.4% more to me than them

the way they get the MOST money is to compress it, or sell it to someone who will compress it

you're fixated on compressing minerals instead of buying pre-compressed ore

Yes, that is one discussion we internally had as well. We tried to find a term that would encompess both reprocessing and refining, but with no avail.

I see no mention of NPC station refining efficiency, wouldn't this be a good time to change the bizarre association of Refining Effiiciency to Stations/Corporations

i.e.
Yuzier III - Nefantar Miner Association Mining Outpost gets 32%
vs
Sooma X - CONCORD Academy - 50%

For some bizarre reason stations associated with NPC mining corporations or heavy industry have terrible yields, despite Reprocessing being quite important to their business. Meanwhile military installations seem to be gifted the best reprocessing yields.

This is utterly bizarre and should be fixed while you're doing this.

yes, but who uses a Rorq to compres (you have to seige) outside a POS? So you still need a POS....might as well have the module that takes 10 seconds to online.

EDIT: where did it say Rorq was instant? I missed that.

Congrats CCP you just f***ed the titan builders, i would hazard a guess that 70% of titans are built with compression. Now it requires 3 x more work.

Its a good way to reduce the numbers of titans being built, it also means that if anyone wants one they will likely have to pay upwards of 150 bill.

I've been reading through this thread and what I'm not seeing a lot of people comment on is loot reprocs.

I'm sure CCP has access to the amount of minerals that are currently being added to the market through this sort of mining, but I without knowing how much are coming from this method, its going to be pretty hard to fathom just how badly this is going to affect the market. If people were to stop refining all modules for mins that are dropped as loot, this could have a huge affect on the mineral market and having prices going up a good bit.

As another poster said, this is also going to drastically decrease the price for some meta modules (ex: smartbombs that are otherwise valueless). I think people are worried about the wrong thing here (ie minerals from ore) as what CCP has shown is that despite these changes that profession is going to basically stay the same.

I'm just not sure what the point of introducing something like the MTU was if they were going to make looting not profitable, or not worth the time...

Also, with people compressing ore now as a viable profession, I wonder how much minerals that will take off the market since the ore won't be refined and thus also drive the price up. I expect to see all mineral prices rise by 10-20% if not 30% depending on how all this shakes out.

CCP does something positive. + 1

I don't get how CCP can take industry, especially low/null industry, and just give it a clean across the board nerf. Not mining, mining gets a minor nerf... but industry... just got a swift kick in the balls and more hoops to jump through. So for any sizable project, not only do we get massive spreadsheets to do the actual build, sourcing materials gets one as well, since finding the right minerals in the ore compositions is going to be a pain. Or we can do it ourselves, and run another POS (yes, just what I wanted to do, and in HS no less) and haul the heaviest stuff in eve all around in pitiful amounts.

And if you're goal was to make rorqual compression more useful, you failed, miserably.

I've been reading through this thread and what I'm not seeing a lot of people comment on is loot reprocs.

I'm sure CCP has access to the amount of minerals that are currently being added to the market through this sort of mining, but I without knowing how much are coming from this method, its going to be pretty hard to fathom just how badly this is going to affect the market. If people were to stop refining all modules for mins that are dropped as loot, this could have a huge affect on the mineral market and having prices going up a good bit.

As another poster said, this is also going to drastically decrease the price for some meta modules (ex: smartbombs that are otherwise valueless). I think people are worried about the wrong thing here (ie minerals from ore) as what CCP has shown is that despite these changes that profession is going to basically stay the same.

I'm just not sure what the point of introducing something like the MTU was if they were going to make looting not profitable, or not worth the time...

Also, with people compressing ore now as a viable profession, I wonder how much minerals that will take off the market since the ore won't be refined and thus also drive the price up. I expect to see all mineral prices rise by 10-20% if not 30% depending on how all this shakes out.

assuming Weaseliors numbers are correct you can get 14.4% more minerals from your ore in nullsec than in highsec. that does not really sound like a nerf to me.

So people MAY NOT refine these?? Not sure. How does Fozzie plan to rebalance modules without unbalancing ships. Above my pay grade.

I know! finally!

No, it's an outright and desperate attempt of CCP to force more people into 00 sec - like cattle to the butcher.

assuming Weaseliors numbers are correct you can get 14.4% more minerals from your ore in nullsec than in highsec. that does not really sound like a nerf to me.

I don't get how CCP can take industry, especially low/null industry, and just give it a clean across the board nerf. Not mining, mining gets a minor nerf... but industry... just got a swift kick in the balls and more hoops to jump through. So for any sizable project, not only do we get massive spreadsheets to do the actual build, sourcing materials gets one as well, since finding the right minerals in the ore compositions is going to be a pain. Or we can do it ourselves, and run another POS (yes, just what I wanted to do, and in HS no less) and haul the heaviest stuff in eve all around in pitiful amounts.

And if you're goal was to make rorqual compression more useful, you failed, miserably.

[

Perhaps you missed it in my OP... INDUSTRY, not MINING, is getting a swift kick in the balls. Not a critical strike, but a nice grazing shot of pure pain... of getting to deal with even more logistics, spreadsheets, and POSes... all for no gain.

My frustration with this is that it's so ungodly tedious to sell a bunch of modules these days that I typically just reprocess my entire station contents and sell the ore to save time.

Can we get some kind of "bulk sell to buy orders" to go with this? Entrepreneurs will still be able to make more money by doing individual sales, but given the bottom has just fallen out of reprocessing modules, it seems like anyone doing any kind of missions will have to spend even more time working on Carpal Tunnel V in stations.

grow some balls and teeth. when we had the chance to choose between hotdropping carebears in providence and russian carebear renters we chose providence. mainly because the russian renters were fighting back.

This'll only affect the loot that gets refined as it is. The meta 0 loot that was ever worth refining was nerfed a long long time ago. It'll drive down the cost of low meta items to worthlessness, yes, but they are pretty worthless anyway. Higher meta might go down a little bit because manufactured goods prices will go up because of the refining nerf (30% nerf on refining rates, I think the dev blog said), and the isk supply won't go up to match. Maybe mid meta price would go up to balance it, but probably not as much as normal market fluctuations.

Indeed, point noted, we'll have a look into that one.

Why am I not surprised to read that? Oh ... right, because that is what 00 sec is about: Killing of those who cannot defend themselves instead of fighting those who fight back. And that is the environment CCP wants to force more people in. Rejoice!

Why am I not surprised to read that? Oh ... right, because that is what 00 sec is about: Killing of those who cannot defend themselves instead of fighting those who fight back. And that is the environment CCP wants to force more people in. Rejoice!

Please look at the issues with NPC null stations vs. sov null stations wrt alchemy I mentioned upthread please while you're looking at balancing alchemy yield.

and as always, lowsec will get the biggest hit in the nuts......

CCP, why don't ou get rid of low directly instead of nerfing it every expansion?

nerf over nerf over nerf.......really?

this is already one of the most difficult place to live in, and it has the lowest income possibilitys, and you are making it worse EVERY SINGLE TIME....stop this

you're not being forced in, you're staying at exactly the same level of income as you cower in your hole

it's merely that the people who take greater risks can reap greater reqards

the russian renters had exactly the same tools the provi carebears had. they simply chose to use them. the whole "can not fight back" thing is utter bullshit

So just to check, if I'm reading this right, the major advantage of compression for ice will be making it easier to haul it to the refining location - but that refining location will need to be in sov-null, or you're just throwing money away. If you're selling in high-sec, you're losing money on this change no matter what - either you don't get as much product, or you refine locally and need more JF runs to get the product to market.

Am I missing something, or is that an accurate assessment?

ROFL ... greater risk. Never heard a better joke.

I've gotta say, though, that I don't quite get why POS refining is not (currently) going to take a pilot's refining skill into account, and -- if I'm reading things right -- simply assume that everyone using it has perfect skills. All refining, in all locations, should take those skills into account. Otherwise, why bother training them at all?

Any highsec miner whines that CCP is nerfing you, I'm siccing Miniluv on you.

With how volatile the market will be, it seems like this would be as good of time as any to fix ship mineral costs and do away with the "Extra Materials" section. Merging these "Extra Materials" in with the regular materials (and thus affected by Mineral efficiency) would reduce the mineral costs on these T1 ships slightly, and partly alleviating the burden of a diminished Mineral supply.

you're crying about how 0.0 is too dangerous for you, then you post this

you should think a little harder next time

lowsec recieves the 54% pos refinery, a net buff

it's not nerfed

no, this thing will still be worse than station refining we have now, and said station refining will be nerfed, making the pos array better but still worse than the curent situation -> it's a nerf

and i don't even talk here about the alchemy, where it is also nerfed, providing a de facto buff to null

grow some balls and teeth. when we had the chance to choose between hotdropping carebears in providence and russian carebear renters we chose providence. mainly because the russian renters were fighting back.

What does the word siccing mean? I have never heard it before so maybe it is one of those awful words or phrases such as:

Yeah but no but.
Like.
Innit.
Awesome.
Basically. etc.

You'll sell your compressed ice in jita, then another null alliance buys it for the LO and brings it back.

Blog has been updated with new compressed ore volumes, and fixed typo with outpost reprocessing values on TQ.

Any highsec miner whines that CCP is nerfing you, I'm siccing Miniluv on you.

Blog has been updated with new compressed ore volumes, and fixed typo with outpost reprocessing values on TQ.

Blog has been updated with new compressed ore volumes, and fixed typo with outpost reprocessing values on TQ.

Correct me if I'm wrong (the forums are good at that) but this is a nerf to those of us that took the time to theory craft mineral compression using modules.

Do I dare call this another dumbing down of EVE?

Are there any changes to the effectiveness of ice compression? Those tables aren't updated - I assume because they're not changing but I want to be sure.

Yes, that is one discussion we internally had as well. We tried to find a term that would encompess both reprocessing and refining, but with no avail.

The point of merging those two terms however is to make it clear it is the same process and station facility / service ( you can't reprocess both ores and materials at the same time at the moment, and both "reprocess" and "refining" are appearing under the Star Map under the "service" tab).

you took the time to google all the work that was done years ago? this is much harder math-wise now: give me the ratio of ores to most accurately match a me1 erebus

you have ten minutes

(with railguns it is 35,400 railguns + some loose highends, something that took me under thirty seconds to figure out)

Don't suppose you have a list of the minerals required for an ML 1 erebus? Just to save me doing the addition?