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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
Wu Fey
Devil's Evil Spirits The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10
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Posted - 2014.05.12 19:42:00 -
[241] - Quote
Did we not have a sufficient number of kiting shield tanked missile ships?
I feel like we did.
Maybe some missile armor brawlers? Anyone? Bueller?
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BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Panhandle Industries Order of the Exalted
545
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Posted - 2014.05.12 19:44:00 -
[242] - Quote
Wu Fey wrote:Did we not have a sufficient number of kiting shield tanked missile ships?
I feel like we did.
Maybe some missile armor brawlers? Anyone? Bueller?
I would love to have the sansha afterburner bonus on a missile ship... New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Sieonigh
Rim Collection RC Sorry We're In Your Space Eh
14
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 19:44:00 -
[243] - Quote
id like to address a big issue regarding the cruiser.
the ORTHRUS's CPU is way too low.
http://31.media.tumblr.com/c791444b0670a52f63e9d67b2405c167/tumblr_n5h7q5q7TM1sp6rhco1_1280.jpg
^screen cap of the ship put into EVE HQ and fitted up.
i had to put 3 CPU mods for the fit to be usable, i don't anyone will want to use this with level of compromise in fitting.
the OP has been changed, it was 325 and is now 460. disregard above |
VanKenMar
Beach Boys C0VEN
4
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 19:45:00 -
[244] - Quote
"Deja vu" for my Phantasm..like one more time be an useless ship, because of that new pirate ships! When You gives the Phantasm a possibility to fight vs. (f.exmp.) Cynabal, now replaced Cynabal with rocket/scram-dis. monster. How fight with that. Now I am consider who will be flying the rest of the pirate ships? |
Wu Fey
Devil's Evil Spirits The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10
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Posted - 2014.05.12 19:46:00 -
[245] - Quote
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:Wu Fey wrote:Did we not have a sufficient number of kiting shield tanked missile ships?
I feel like we did.
Maybe some missile armor brawlers? Anyone? Bueller?
I would love to have the sansha afterburner bonus on a missile ship...
now you are speaking my language =) |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2481
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Posted - 2014.05.12 19:48:00 -
[246] - Quote
So after some poking around with some EFT files, anybody complaining about either the speed or the tank on these ships in either armor or shield configuration is insane.
You will go very fast in shield fits with a really nice tank or you will go not quite as fast with 390k + hp in armor configuration.
http://i.imgur.com/CLATukH.png (note that is just **** thrown at EFT and in no way optimal) Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
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MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1853
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Posted - 2014.05.12 19:51:00 -
[247] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:The Intaki don't get their tech from anywhere.. the Intaki Syndicate get theirs from Gal/Minm.. But they are a separate faction onto themselves and have nothing to do with Mordu's Legion and the Intaki that joined the Caldari. Those Intaki came from the Federation, and it would make sense that they would incorporate that tech into the ships they were given by the Caldari, and those that have evolved since. Lastly, Mordu's Legion is supposed to be using high tech ships, and be technologically advanced. When one hears this, one does not think of the Minmatar.
Don't get me wrong, I want a Caldari Minm race as much as the next person.. But it makes sense from the lore standpoint that this is Cal/Gal.
1.The Gal federation pre civil war was a weak federal government meaning that each race had thier own respective tech. It was not untill the Gal re wrote the constitution that a strong federal governemnt was made. Hence When Mordu left the federation they used thier own tech not Gal tech.
2. Angel ships are tech taken from the second Jovian Empire which is far more tech superior to us.
3. It would make sence that Mordu would have closer ties with the syndicate then homeworld since Mordu have a negative relationship with the Gals.
I still think it would have been easy lore wise to make the connection of mordu with Angel but meh its already done i guess so we have to just accept that mordu are a mix of Gal even though Gal are terrible at shields are not that fast and are terrible at missiles... but hey at least gal tech II have long range points... so i guess its something There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1853
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 19:54:00 -
[248] - Quote
Wu Fey wrote:Did we not have a sufficient number of kiting shield tanked missile ships?
I feel like we did.
Maybe some missile armor brawlers? Anyone? Bueller?
maybe ammatar?
missile/armor beasts? There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Arthur Aihaken
Erebus Solia
3535
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 19:57:00 -
[249] - Quote
I'm just going to throw this out there for discussion... Barghest loses 1 launcher in exchange for a +50% missile damage bonus (9 effective launchers vs. 8.75) and gains another low slot, so 7H-6M-7L.
BARGHEST Caldari Battleship Bonus per level: 10% bonus to missile damage Gallente Battleship Bonus per level: 10% bonus to warp scrambler and warp disruptor range Role Bonus: 200% bonus to missile velocity (50% penalty to missile flight time)
Slot layout: 7H(-1), 6M, 7L(+1); 0 turrets, 6(-1) launchers Fittings: 11600 PWG, 700 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 11200 / 8750 / 8100 Capacitor (amount / cap/sec) : 6100 / 5.28 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 148 / .098 / 98467000 / 13.38s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 75 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 76km / 110 / 7 Sensor strength: 29 Signature radius: 370 I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Savage Chelien
Polaris Rising Gentlemen's Agreement
3
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Posted - 2014.05.12 19:59:00 -
[250] - Quote
can you plz change the bonus to a taget painter efective bonus as the scram bonus on the bs is a waste of time |
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chaosgrimm
Universal Production and Networking Services
120
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 19:59:00 -
[251] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:We initially wanted to fill the Caldari/Minmatar faction gap, but the existing factions didn't really support that and adding story and assets for an entirely new faction wasn't practical.
Players will expect that gap to be filled in the future. Are there any plans of added a cal/min pirate? Would it be possible to add a bit of lore to ML for this ship and give it a minmatar bonus. |
Arthur Aihaken
Erebus Solia
3535
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 20:00:00 -
[252] - Quote
Savage Chelien wrote:can you plz change the bonus to a taget painter efective bonus as the scram bonus on the bs is a waste of time No. Get a Golem if you want that. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1853
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 20:02:00 -
[253] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Savage Chelien wrote:can you plz change the bonus to a taget painter efective bonus as the scram bonus on the bs is a waste of time No. Get a Golem if you want that.
it would be cool instead of a bonus to scram/point range it was able to use an infinity point... that would be pretty epic There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
chaosgrimm
Universal Production and Networking Services
120
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 20:04:00 -
[254] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:I'm just going to throw this out there for discussion... Barghest loses 1 launcher in exchange for a +50% missile damage bonus (9 effective launchers vs. 8.75) and gains another low slot, so 7H-6M-7L.
BARGHEST Caldari Battleship Bonus per level: 10% bonus to missile damage Gallente Battleship Bonus per level: 10% bonus to warp scrambler and warp disruptor range Role Bonus: 200% bonus to missile velocity (50% penalty to missile flight time)
Slot layout: 7H(-1), 6M, 7L(+1); 0 turrets, 6(-1) launchers Fittings: 11600 PWG, 700 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 11200 / 8750 / 8100 Capacitor (amount / cap/sec) : 6100 / 5.28 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 148 / .098 / 98467000 / 13.38s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 75 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 76km / 110 / 7 Sensor strength: 29 Signature radius: 370
Bit too close to a phoon imo
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Arthur Aihaken
Erebus Solia
3535
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 20:05:00 -
[255] - Quote
chaosgrimm wrote:Bit too close to a phoon imo Yeah, but it's black. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Panhandle Industries Order of the Exalted
545
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 20:06:00 -
[256] - Quote
I just want a cal/min faction... Maybe hybrid optimal + web range? ECM + Artillery? Kinetic Missiles + target painter effectiveness/ optimal? Missiles + sig radius reduction while using afterburners? Instant kill weapon on ten minute cool down?
...
Oh wait we have that last one.
I'm totally buying that frigate though. *heads to put frigate 5 into the queue* New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
chaosgrimm
Universal Production and Networking Services
120
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 20:06:00 -
[257] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:chaosgrimm wrote:Bit too close to a phoon imo Yeah, but it's black. lol |
Suitonia
Path of Radiance HYDRA RELOADED
234
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Posted - 2014.05.12 20:10:00 -
[258] - Quote
CCP Rise, are the capacitor stats you have listed there accurate? +2.05 Cap without skills on the Frigate is very low (Approx +3.41 with max skills) and it will not be able to even run a MWD (without anything else) permanently, running a LR point + MWD for any extended period of time will require a lot of sacrifices. Also, if the stats ARE accurate The Battleship has less cap regen per second than the Stabber does.
Initially I thought that the Garmur would be overpowered given the point range bonus, and 6.75 Effective Launchers. For reference, the Hookbill has 6 KINETIC locked launchers. The hawk has 5.32 Approx (Non Kinetic) and just under 8 Kinetic locked launchers. So this ship will have heavy selectable damage type missiles, as well as moving at near interceptor speeds, dealing AF damage. However looking at just the Capacitor stats alone it seems like it could be balanced or even, perhaps, underpowered, at least in a kiting role it will find itself unable to run point or MWD very quickly. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2482
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 20:12:00 -
[259] - Quote
Suitonia wrote:CCP Rise, are the capacitor stats you have listed there accurate? +2.05 Cap without skills on the Frigate is very low (Approx +3.41 with max skills) and it will not be able to even run a MWD (without anything else) permanently, running a LR point + MWD for any extended period of time will require a lot of sacrifices. Also, if the stats ARE accurate The Battleship has less cap regen per second than the Stabber does.
Initially I thought that the Garmur would be overpowered given the point range bonus, and 6.75 Effective Launchers. For reference, the Hookbill has 6 KINETIC locked launchers. The hawk has 5.32 Approx (Non Kinetic) and just under 8 Kinetic locked launchers. So this ship will have heavy selectable damage type missiles, as well as moving at near interceptor speeds, dealing AF damage. However looking at just the Capacitor stats alone it seems like it could be balanced or even, perhaps, underpowered, at least in a kiting role it will find itself unable to run point or MWD very quickly.
Yea, but like, unbonused damps literally shut these ships down, especially the frigate, and lets be honest, unbonused damps are really really common right now.
Like I said else where, the counter to these is not only really really obvious, its super common.
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
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Futune Circinus
Merchants Trade Consortium The Last Chancers.
15
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Posted - 2014.05.12 20:13:00 -
[260] - Quote
10 effective medium launchers seems like a bit much for a cruiser. That's almost like a Nighthawk, which has 10.91. Except the Nighthawk is never going to kite anyone... |
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Suitonia
Path of Radiance HYDRA RELOADED
234
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Posted - 2014.05.12 20:16:00 -
[261] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Suitonia wrote:CCP Rise, are the capacitor stats you have listed there accurate? +2.05 Cap without skills on the Frigate is very low (Approx +3.41 with max skills) and it will not be able to even run a MWD (without anything else) permanently, running a LR point + MWD for any extended period of time will require a lot of sacrifices. Also, if the stats ARE accurate The Battleship has less cap regen per second than the Stabber does.
Initially I thought that the Garmur would be overpowered given the point range bonus, and 6.75 Effective Launchers. For reference, the Hookbill has 6 KINETIC locked launchers. The hawk has 5.32 Approx (Non Kinetic) and just under 8 Kinetic locked launchers. So this ship will have heavy selectable damage type missiles, as well as moving at near interceptor speeds, dealing AF damage. However looking at just the Capacitor stats alone it seems like it could be balanced or even, perhaps, underpowered, at least in a kiting role it will find itself unable to run point or MWD very quickly. Yea, but like, unbonused damps literally shut these ships down, especially the frigate, and lets be honest, unbonused damps are really really common right now. Like I said else where, the counter to these is not only really really obvious, its super common.
Hey Grath, I don't the Garmur is overpowered, I even suggested in my post that it's probably underpowered given the terrible capacitor stats on it.
All of the capacitor stats on these ships are trash. The Griffin has more Cap per second than the Cruiser does. The Stabber has more cap per second than the Battleship does.
You will need to fit an Injector on everyone of these ships if you plan on kiting. |
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
38
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 20:16:00 -
[262] - Quote
So at first look the Garmur is as fast as an interceptor, deals more dps than an assaultfrig while still having the same basedefenses ( without T2 resists (?)). Also able to scram while out of scramrange (what might be a way bigger OP bonus than the much debated 90% webs). So pretty much the only way to kill it is to send a dramiel out to catch it and then someone else to actually win the fight. This thing will shut down any FW pvp while it-¦s in system and I guess the AT teams are already getting sweaty palms and probably wet pants). Actually it feels like the weightclass of some old AT second places besides the cap. |
Voyager Arran
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
162
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 20:18:00 -
[263] - Quote
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:Locking ranges seem way too short given the bonus to disruptor range and missile use. Agreed. The lock range forces these ships to use rockets/hams/torps or rapid launchers. The frigate is especially strange because it will have a 15km scram (far short of its 22km rocket range) but if you fit disruptor it only locks out to 28km and the disruptor reaches to 36km+. I guess I can understand not wanting a frigate dancing around at 45km with light missiles while still maintaining point.
Keep in mind that's 28km before skills are applied. With Long Range Targeting IV / V, that's 33.5 / 35 km lock range; still too short to make full use of its abilities, but not quite so oppressive.
I wouldn't worry overmuch about this replacing the Crow, though. While it does a lot of things really well and will probably become a terror in Lowsec duels, part of what makes LML Interceptors so powerful is their sig tanks; a 75% reduction to MWD sig bloom is a huge, enormous boon to a ship that doesn't care about its own tracking, and the Garmur doesn't get it. Not such a big deal when you're in a 1v1 against an opponent who can't hit back, but easily a fatal difference when you're trying to do something like a Crow Fleet against armed targets (and also are in a much more expensive hull). |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1853
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 20:18:00 -
[264] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote: Yea, but like, unbonused damps literally shut these ships down, especially the frigate, and lets be honest, unbonused damps are really really common right now.
Like I said else where, the counter to these is not only really really obvious, its super common.
fof ftw? There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Bagehi
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
270
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 20:20:00 -
[265] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:I'm just going to throw this out there for discussion... Barghest loses 1 launcher in exchange for a +50% missile damage bonus (9 effective launchers vs. 8.75) and gains another low slot, so 7H-6M-7L.
BARGHEST Caldari Battleship Bonus per level: 10% bonus to missile damage Gallente Battleship Bonus per level: 10% bonus to warp scrambler and warp disruptor range Role Bonus: 200% bonus to missile velocity (50% penalty to missile flight time)
Slot layout: 7H(-1), 6M, 7L(+1); 0 turrets, 6(-1) launchers Fittings: 11600 PWG, 700 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 11200 / 8750 / 8100 Capacitor (amount / cap/sec) : 6100 / 5.28 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 148 / .098 / 98467000 / 13.38s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 75 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 76km / 110 / 7 Sensor strength: 29 Signature radius: 370 Why would you add another low slot to a ship that so obviously is supposed to be shield tanked? |
Nimrod vanHall
Martyr's Vengence Nulli Secunda
81
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Posted - 2014.05.12 20:20:00 -
[266] - Quote
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:Locking ranges seem way too short given the bonus to disruptor range and missile use. Agreed. The lock range forces these ships to use rockets/hams/torps or rapid launchers. The frigate is especially strange because it will have a 15km scram (far short of its 22km rocket range) but if you fit disruptor it only locks out to 28km and the disruptor reaches to 36km+. I guess I can understand not wanting a frigate dancing around at 45km with light missiles while still maintaining point. 28 km base lock range with skills and basic non boost leadership skill modification(the stuff you get for beeing in a fleet with someone that trained enough just enough leadership skills to be abled to fly a T2 battle cruiser) is 28x1.1x1.25=38.5 km lock range. Thus more then your point range. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2482
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 20:20:00 -
[267] - Quote
Suitonia wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Suitonia wrote:CCP Rise, are the capacitor stats you have listed there accurate? +2.05 Cap without skills on the Frigate is very low (Approx +3.41 with max skills) and it will not be able to even run a MWD (without anything else) permanently, running a LR point + MWD for any extended period of time will require a lot of sacrifices. Also, if the stats ARE accurate The Battleship has less cap regen per second than the Stabber does.
Initially I thought that the Garmur would be overpowered given the point range bonus, and 6.75 Effective Launchers. For reference, the Hookbill has 6 KINETIC locked launchers. The hawk has 5.32 Approx (Non Kinetic) and just under 8 Kinetic locked launchers. So this ship will have heavy selectable damage type missiles, as well as moving at near interceptor speeds, dealing AF damage. However looking at just the Capacitor stats alone it seems like it could be balanced or even, perhaps, underpowered, at least in a kiting role it will find itself unable to run point or MWD very quickly. Yea, but like, unbonused damps literally shut these ships down, especially the frigate, and lets be honest, unbonused damps are really really common right now. Like I said else where, the counter to these is not only really really obvious, its super common. Hey Grath, I don't the Garmur is overpowered, I even suggested in my post that it's probably underpowered given the terrible capacitor stats on it. All of the capacitor stats on these ships are trash. The Griffin has more Cap per second than the Cruiser does. The Stabber has more cap per second than the Battleship does. You will need to fit an Injector on everyone of these ships if you plan on kiting.
Yea, 100% man, people screaming about their power levels aren't really looking at the broader picture of what they'll fight against in the current environments you'll see them in.
The ships have some strong power, don't get me wrong, but the down sides are super evident when you look at the package as a whole.
Damps, any neuting at all for any reason, blank them out.
Oddly though, they have a slightly higher SS than most Pirate faction BS (which we both know will me F-All when EC300s get on them but its still nice and a nod towards their caldari background)
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
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Wu Fey
Devil's Evil Spirits The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 20:21:00 -
[268] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Wu Fey wrote:Did we not have a sufficient number of kiting shield tanked missile ships?
I feel like we did.
Maybe some missile armor brawlers? Anyone? Bueller?
maybe ammatar? missile/armor beasts?
Right now ham legion is about it. You can fit up a ham prophecy, but its actually a drone ship. Typhoon is a good armor missile BS but it emphasizes speed, not brawling. The Sacrilege should be this, but for some reason it got a range bonus. Damnation also gets a range bonus. Not many options.
I was going to make a list of shield missile kiters, but I ran out of characters.
It is also strange to me that the design seems to be centered around catering to the FW kitey crap. Wouldn't it be more interesting to provide alternate strategies that can mix up the current meta? This seems to just trump the current meta by being better at the same thing. |
Catherine Laartii
State Protectorate Caldari State
175
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 20:22:00 -
[269] - Quote
Holy crap...dat frig and cruiser dps... you'll be doing upwards of 300 with the frig, and upwards of 500, possibly 600 with the cruiser. This is going to be amazing.
The missile bonuses you have set up are absolutely brilliant. The massive velocity increase means that damage can apply more realistically, especially with javelins on the garmur. The dps on the cruiser and frigate might be a little too powerful, but we'll have to see. I'm extremely interested to see how their stats play out in a solo/small gang fight.
I am also extremely wary of the fact that while you are admittedly doing a decent job of making them found in asteroid belt drops, the alarming fact remains that you are going to bottleneck the SINGLE GORRAM STATION in the game that they own to hell, and turn it a clusterf*ck horrible beyond words can describe. The ONLY viable way for you to solve this issue, that eliminates severe issues with availability and player bottlenecking, is to instead of adding entire stations, add some in-space agents in their area of space in pure blind, and possibly elsewhere. Every faction in the game has them as cosmos agents, but it's fairly easy to make these just basic event agents that you can repeatedly work for.
This works for several reasons:
Firstly, the open-space availability means that people can pick these up in cloaky ships to avoid getting splattered on the undock by the legions of pirates who will no doubt be camping the SINGLE GORRAM STATION in the game they own. Already you are starting to see people piling into the modus station in anticipation, and piracy is on the rise. Make the in-space event agents a reality along with keeping the drop system, and I promise you that you will receive no legitimate negative feedback.
Secondly, the introduction of in-space agents follows lore lines appropriately, with them being mercenaries and all. It makes a great deal of sense that you'd find a lot of them setting up their own shop in space for capsuleers to line up to, and assist them in subsidizing their missions. Agents in space is an extremely appropriate way to handle pve in nullsec to start out with, but it makes far more sense for a mobile military group like Mordu's Legion to be operating with that dynamic. Having them in lowsec areas around different places in empire space would be ideal. What would you think about adding some of their npc event agents in FW space?
Thirdly, you can bet that with as strong as you're making them that the demand for them is going to be just as absurdly high as the sisters ships. These are going to be premium hot-ticket items as popular with pirates and elite small-combat groups as the angel cartel ships once were before the balance. With this current setup, you will not be able through any stretch of the imagination be able to have the supply keep up with the demand, so it is more than likely that once the prices do level off, the garmur will stay at upwards of 200 million isk, and the Orthrus will cost more than a tengu that can kick its ass in a fight any day of the week.
Please consider all the points I have raised here, since while the lowsec seeding idea is a good one, traditional forms of pve for ship acquisition have to be upheld for the sake of the market. You will cry out in terror on release day when you realize how badly this is going for you, so please increase the plan for their distribution now, while you have time to experiment then after release day when you have thousands of angry players screaming at you in the murderous cesspool that the undock in their pure blind station will be. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2482
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 20:25:00 -
[270] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:Holy crap...dat frig and cruiser dps... you'll be doing upwards of 300 with the frig, .
Actually rockets (the highest DPS from frig based missiles) is only about 170 dps
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
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