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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
6282
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Posted - 2014.05.17 17:26:00 -
[31] - Quote
I for one welcome out new T3 Batlecruiser overlords. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
Akashi Suenobu
Raven's Flight Havoc.
1
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Posted - 2014.05.17 17:28:00 -
[32] - Quote
Kasutra wrote:Hmm, and here I thought MJDs were designed as a BS niche, as a fix for their, uh, rather horrible mobility. Fozzie, does this mean you think BCs are in a similar situation as battleships were when the LMJD was introduced, or did you think they could just use another tool in the box?
IIRC when they put out the first MJDs they also suggested that smaller versions were in development. |
Ripard Teg
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
895
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 17:30:00 -
[33] - Quote
Ugh.
The only way to catch medium or large BC fleets these days is to bubble them in. Now you're effectively giving these fleets bubble immunity. For instance, we're currently seeing large PL Vulture fleets in Provi. Those fleets can kick ass and take names, but we've been able to counter them with bubbles and massed Ruptures. We lose a huge number of Ruptures, but it's a viable counter.
Now we're still going to lose a huge number of Ruptures if we fight them, but 80% or more of the Vultures will get away. And if we bring a bunch of scrambling tacklers, the Vultures will just refuse to engage. If we can't tackle the fleet, we're not going to engage it. So we're just not going to fight them. And I doubt we're going to be alone in that. The default position when facing a large BC fleet will become "Guys, we don't have enough scrams and they're just going to get away. Everyone dock up and we'll wait for them to leave." or "They're BCs, we'll just out-run them."
So by doing this you're reducing the number of fights and reducing the number of BCs you're going to see on KMs and loss-mails as a result. I'm pretty sure that isn't your goal.
I don't mind these so much on attack BCs. They do kind of go with the role of a coward sitting 150 off a gate in his untanked super-tracking Tornado. But they're going to be OP on combat BCs.
Overall though, I would prefer that you look for another way to rebalance BCs and in the meantime you either give DSTs a role bonus to large MJDs or you limit medium MJDs to DSTs only for now. Jester's Trek: wherein I ramble about EVE Online, gaming, and from time to time... life. |
Rab See
Fool Mental Junket
64
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Posted - 2014.05.17 17:31:00 -
[34] - Quote
Bad idea.
Bad enough single point is gone when taking on any BS, now its mandatory to have short point for nearly every type of engagement.
See a 1000 dps Command ship. Tackle it, and watch it melt you as you have to get close.
Is there any point left in this game?
Can we change webbing bonus on minmatar ships to something else now, its becoming the opposite of useless, now useful to a whole new class of ship that will just MJD away faster. |
Ravasta Helugo
Republic University Minmatar Republic
285
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Posted - 2014.05.17 17:33:00 -
[35] - Quote
Blinks! Blinks for everybody! Erry'body in da club gettin' blinks.
We are all Mages now. |
Akashi Suenobu
Raven's Flight Havoc.
1
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Posted - 2014.05.17 17:35:00 -
[36] - Quote
I have a question. I know if you're scrammed you can't MJD, but what about multiple long points? |
Kaeda Maxwell
Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder
298
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Posted - 2014.05.17 17:36:00 -
[37] - Quote
Sometimes CCP you make me wonder if you just really hate people that kite.
Every time you force more scrams you severely limit the mobility envelope of ships, something that doesn't hurt brawling setups in the least but it really hurts kiting setups. In recent history you made long range neuts more common, you made speed difference between existing ships smaller with a lot of the tiercide re-balancing, you added multiple drone speed bonuses, you kicked tracking enhancers is the nuts and now you're adding a get out of jail free card for non BS hulls. Small gang kiting setups have already gone from being viable in the 20-28km range to now only being viable 28 and up range and this will just make it harder for those of us that skirmish again.
I'd request you at least think really hard on this once more, I can see why you might want this for command ships to encourage their usage on grid. But attack battle cruisers really don't need this, they're already fairly dodgy to tackle (especially if there's more then one or two) with long points, forcing scrams is really not required imho. |
HostileCyno OnGrid
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.05.17 17:37:00 -
[38] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:So now PL vultures cant be bubbled. Seems legit.
And you cant tackle sniping nagas with out a scram.
Cry me a river. |
Cypherous
Liberty Rogues Aprilon Dynasty
66
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Posted - 2014.05.17 17:43:00 -
[39] - Quote
Rab See wrote:Bad idea.
Bad enough single point is gone when taking on any BS, now its mandatory to have short point for nearly every type of engagement.
See a 1000 dps Command ship. Tackle it, and watch it melt you as you have to get close.
Is there any point left in this game?
Can we change webbing bonus on minmatar ships to something else now, its becoming the opposite of useless, now useful to a whole new class of ship that will just MJD away faster.
Or you know, any of the ships with a range extension to points, arazu anyone :P |
Cardano Firesnake
Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation
150
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Posted - 2014.05.17 17:47:00 -
[40] - Quote
Excellent choice of ship. The T1 indus could also have the possibility to fit it...
Battlecruisers, Command Ships and Deep Space transport ships really needed this mobility option. |
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Bosquit
Tempest Legion
58
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Posted - 2014.05.17 17:49:00 -
[41] - Quote
This is super worrying as a change:
1. Disruptors are becoming more and more useless, as almost always you will need to go with scrams.
2. Bubbles are even more useless for holding down a fleet
3. The original purpose of the MJD was to allow BS to move around the field easier cause of how horrible their agility and speed is. Battlecruisers don't really have that huge of a problem with that.
What should be done is allow this to be used in the same manor but don't make it immune to bubbles. It would allow the mod to be a niche mod that would still find use but not overshadow the MJD, but still have a way to tackle large sniper fleets, without just having them warp off or MJD out. Possibly a longer spool time would be better as well, to limit the use in lowsec.
I don't know, this just feels really dumb as a mod, it's like giving the risk averse more and more ways to run away, which seems bad for pvp. "Insert Philosophical Statement Here" |
Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus S I L E N T.
91
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Posted - 2014.05.17 17:51:00 -
[42] - Quote
Cypherous wrote:Rab See wrote:Bad idea.
Bad enough single point is gone when taking on any BS, now its mandatory to have short point for nearly every type of engagement.
See a 1000 dps Command ship. Tackle it, and watch it melt you as you have to get close.
Is there any point left in this game?
Can we change webbing bonus on minmatar ships to something else now, its becoming the opposite of useless, now useful to a whole new class of ship that will just MJD away faster. Or you know, any of the ships with a range extension to points, arazu anyone :P
That's still pretty short, basically this is a huge nerf to small skilled gangs engaging blobs, they can't get close as they would be insta gibbed, and can't tackle from where they can fight...
I don't see much in the way of positives introducing that module... |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2509
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Posted - 2014.05.17 17:51:00 -
[43] - Quote
This is terrible don't do this, you're making it increasingly easy to avoid combat in a game where picking a fight can already be an extreme challenge. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
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MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1857
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Posted - 2014.05.17 17:51:00 -
[44] - Quote
Red Crown wrote:Combat BCs are still in a very bad place and due to their cruiser ranges won't derive much benefit from MMJDs.
I can definitely see how this will be a Very Cool Thing in a lot of situations, especially with Attack BCs, but not as much in medium to large fleet fights.
it would be cool if the range of the jump was able to be "toggled" that way you can jump anywhere from 10km to 100km...
that would help combat ships as they could close range and unleash the blasters real fast.
also make the range and spool up time and cool down time reflected on how far you go.
so if its 100km 3 min cool down and long spool up
but its its 10km like a 30 second cool down and almost instant spool up. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
457
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Posted - 2014.05.17 17:52:00 -
[45] - Quote
Chitsa Jason wrote:The issue with BCs has allways been bomber fleets. MJD thing alleviates that issue a bit but I do think it is a step in wrong direction as it promotes less kill mail for medium gangs. so basically **** this change.
Bombs explode after 10 seconds. with a skill at level 5, the spool up time is 9 seconds. You would need everyone in the fleet to notice the bombs and jump, without orders, the instant they are launched for this to have any effect on bombing runs. |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1857
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Posted - 2014.05.17 17:52:00 -
[46] - Quote
Chitsa Jason wrote:The issue with BCs has allways been bomber fleets. MJD thing alleviates that issue a bit but I do think it is a step in wrong direction as it promotes less kill mail for medium gangs. so basically **** this change.
what if they reduced the resistance bombs have to 90% or something that way you would reach a finite amount of bombs before they start to kill themselves. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1154
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Posted - 2014.05.17 17:52:00 -
[47] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:Mike Azariah wrote:Battlecruisers, BC's
reading, folks. It does help.
any of you picturing quick jumps to get those darn snipers 100km off the gate?
m And what if they are 120km away instead, and have their own mjd?
spoolup time, scramble
m Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9 |
Aurora Fatalis
Stillwater Corporation
81
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Posted - 2014.05.17 17:53:00 -
[48] - Quote
100km seems a little too strong for a battlecruiser, considering their superior agility over battleships and the limited engagement range for combat BCs.
With a 50 km range, for example, a Prophecy doesn't jump out of its drone control range, making it more a combat mobility tool than an escape mechanism. You could close in on a kiting Ishtar, for example... :D If Chribba told you not to trust him, would you? |
Aldap
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
501
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Posted - 2014.05.17 17:53:00 -
[49] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Is there a way you can remove attack battle cruisers from using these things for right now? They already do just fine with kiting and sniping. Even capable of anti-frigate work. Letting them fit one of these will make them incredibly over powered in small gang situations. This An interesting article about Solo PvP: http://themittani.com/features/new-eden-solo |
Grarr Dexx
Snuff Box
409
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Posted - 2014.05.17 17:55:00 -
[50] - Quote
cause what attack battlecruisers needed was even more possibilities to not get tackled, aside from their stupid ******* speed |
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Iris Bravemount
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
310
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Posted - 2014.05.17 17:55:00 -
[51] - Quote
This very good news. "I will not hesitate when the test of Faith finds me, for only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise. My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity." - Paladin's Creed |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1857
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Posted - 2014.05.17 17:58:00 -
[52] - Quote
Aldap wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Is there a way you can remove attack battle cruisers from using these things for right now? They already do just fine with kiting and sniping. Even capable of anti-frigate work. Letting them fit one of these will make them incredibly over powered in small gang situations. This
yeah i second that... just make it for "combat" BC's and make the range 50km.
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
611
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Posted - 2014.05.17 17:59:00 -
[53] - Quote
Any ships planned to get bonuses for using them like marauders? |
Bosquit
Tempest Legion
61
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Posted - 2014.05.17 18:08:00 -
[54] - Quote
BS MJD= Interesting tactical content creation
BC MJD=Risk Averse content creation. Poorly thought out mod that is solving problems that don't really exist. "Insert Philosophical Statement Here" |
Sintiar Loffwagea
The Scope Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2014.05.17 18:21:00 -
[55] - Quote
this idea really good for new tactics warfare .
and BC got overshadow by T3C and BS because BC didn't have much choice and Commandship is expensive . so BC need more tech2. |
Endo Saissore
Gateway Cowboys
62
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Posted - 2014.05.17 18:30:00 -
[56] - Quote
I'm hesitant to argue this because id love to fit a mmjd Mrym, but I have to agree that its not a good fit for tech 1 bcs. I suggest limiting it to command ships. There's more risk fielding a command ship on grid, so it makes sense that it gets a bonus to maneuverability. And it'll encourage me to finally try soloing in an Eos :) |
Rita Zechs
Large Rodent Hunters
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 18:31:00 -
[57] - Quote
You remind when there when that game was BC online because BC did everything cruisers did only better? It's coming back. Right now you fly cruisers over BC for increased escapability, with the BC now having the upper hand no reason whatsoever to fly a cruiser anymore...
Oh, and kiting is dead too...
Welcome to "evenly matched fleets fighting at close range", because every other fight will end up with people not engaging or leaving.... |
ViRtUoZone
0ne Percent. Odin's Call
20
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Posted - 2014.05.17 18:32:00 -
[58] - Quote
All you have to do to balance this is make it so that it is unable to be used when disrupted instead of exclusively scrambled. |
Elise Randolph
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
1220
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Posted - 2014.05.17 18:32:00 -
[59] - Quote
I don't think this will have much of an effect on sniping tier 3 BCs, which is pretty much the only flavor of tier-3 BC we see ever since they got nerfed into oblivion - at least the only good use for them. They're kind of annoying to fit, and it only offers a greater escape mechanism to those who are incapable of aligning. They're also categorically worse than Tengus which can sniper from further, apply more damage, be functionally unprobeable, and actually warp out of bubbles with no 8 second spool up delay should they be caught.
It may open the door back up for the roaming variety of tier-3, which would be nice (if not a huge stretch) since the current roaming ships are fairly stale. THE DREAM would be jumping intoa bubble camp, MMJD'ing, and then brawling outrageous. The reality is 'ohgod guys mjd and run!" though, which is kind of annoying since catching people with their pants down is already a pain in the butt. But hey, opening the door for more variety is pretty OK. It's kind of OP for the Vulture though, man who would have thought that the Vulture would not only be a viable PvP ship but arguably the most overpowered. What a time to be alive.
The ****** part, as some dude correctly pointed out, is that scrams are going to be even more crucial should these MMJDs catch on. And this really f'ing sucks, especially in the current meta when frigates/AFs are literally everywhere and now they'll have even more reason to fit scrams. The annoying factor is compounded even further since the current meta also favors ships with long effective ranges. Scrams are such fun-killing modules man. ~ |
Adrie Atticus
The Shadow Plague Fidelas Constans
103
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Posted - 2014.05.17 18:35:00 -
[60] - Quote
MMJD should be affected by long points and bubbles.
Reasons for this are already posted. |
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