What's wrong with using a fast cruiser?

They'll be targeting BC's so lock time wont be an issue. BCs are also slow, so are limited in their ability to close gaps. Cruisers can suck up gate guns just fine and can be fit hella fast.


Serious question, I really don't see many things getting away from the quicker cruisers in the spool time.

I mean.. what are you going to do with them other than make them overpowered again to make them relevant? =/

Cruisers can suck up gate guns and be fast? Are you talking about blobbing BC's with logi? Because if so yea sure that will work. Otherwise not so much.

I meant they can suck it up enough until slower things arrive. For example a caracal can be fit to 35k EHP, 2117m/s with a 9k (no heat) scram. Let's say an 8s spool time - that's a 24-25k range (16km travel plus 9km module range) for the caracal to collar the BC. Doesn't seem massively unreasonable given how ponderous BCs are and the average distance things decloak off gate.

35k EHP should last plenty long enough until other ships get in on it and the caracal can disengage and reengage. Particularly as the mod has a 3 minute cooldown so that's 3 minutes of long points being just fine so long as the MJD is interrupted by the initial scram.

Kinda negates the advantage of the battleships though no? I would cut the spool up, cooldown and range of the Medium MJD by 25%. i.e. jump to 75km instead of 100.
Also considering those medium ships usually have shorter range than battleships, 75km might be more useful except in cases of catching battleships or escaping from a fight.

You appear to be saying here that to stop the bc from leaving you need to ram it in a smaller, faster, weaker ship than the bc in question. That's not a great solution to the issue with the module unless you have falcons/logis with you. The people suggesting this is poor game design aren't looking for more ways to get kills vs single ships with mass falcon and logi, rather the opposite.

I simply don't see how that's magically an issue tomorrow if it's not already an issue for you today. It's not even like it's a stretch or off the wall fit to adapt a nano cruiser to that role.

I don't know how you think this works at the moment but basically right now you can fight ships in cruisers without having so many logi that you can **** up the piloting of the cruiser completely, get scrammed, scram them and be fine because "lol blobbing + falcons + logis". A great many people actually use piloting skill to fight bigger ships, rather than logis. Your suggestion of "that's okay, just scram the bc in your cruiser, your logis will keep you up" isn't actually helpful because it basically amounts to "to kill a bc you now have to blob it" whereas previously you didn't have to. You think you're describing the solution but you're actually agreeing about the problem. If the solution is "yeah, longpoints don't work, you gotta scram a big ship in your small ship and blob it" then we agree entirely about the situation and just don't think that's a good direction for the game to move in.

TLDR: "it's fine, the blob will save you" doesn't address the legitimate concerns of the smallgang/solo community here

You're not getting this. Right now 2 guys with cruisers and a lot of pilot skill can fight a half dozen larger ships as long as they are good at mitigating damage. I'm not saying the cruisers longpoint and call in help, I'm saying they longpoint and then kill them because where the larger ships opted for more tank and more dps the cruisers picked less dps, less tank, more speed and more projection. They picked fits which had significant tradeoffs but were rewarding if they had piloting skill and as such were able to win in spots where they shouldn't due to exploiting that piloting skill.

If warp disruptors don't lock down ships then you are forced to scram and brawl to get a kill and if you are forced to brawl then you are forced to just have more dudes in bigger ships. Right now you are not, fewer dudes can beat more dudes with piloting skill. It's not an issue of "well you can still lock them down while your blob gets there". We don't all have blobs.


It not only destroys the warp disruptor as a module but also any kind of agility/piloting skill based pvp because you can't guarantee a kill without being in their scram range. It's a huge, huge attack on a very popular style of pvp.

You're not getting this. Right now 2 guys with cruisers and a lot of pilot skill can fight a half dozen larger ships as long as they are good at mitigating damage. I'm not saying the cruisers longpoint and call in help, I'm saying they longpoint and then kill them because where the larger ships opted for more tank and more dps the cruisers picked less dps, less tank, more speed and more projection. They picked fits which had significant tradeoffs but were rewarding if they had piloting skill and as such were able to win in spots where they shouldn't due to exploiting that piloting skill.

If warp disruptors don't lock down ships then you are forced to scram and brawl to get a kill and if you are forced to brawl then you are forced to just have more dudes in bigger ships. Right now you are not, fewer dudes can beat more dudes with piloting skill. It's not an issue of "well you can still lock them down while your blob gets there". We don't all have blobs.


It not only destroys the warp disruptor as a module but also any kind of agility/piloting skill based pvp because you can't guarantee a kill without being in their scram range. It's a huge, huge attack on a very popular style of pvp. People who try and win through manually piloting will not be able to attack half the things they currently can if they have to lock horns with a f1 brawl monkey in a brick scram ship to get a kill. It destroys their engagement profile.

You're not getting this. Right now 2 guys with cruisers and a lot of pilot skill can fight a half dozen larger ships as long as they are good at mitigating damage. I'm not saying the cruisers longpoint and call in help, I'm saying they longpoint and then kill them because where the larger ships opted for more tank and more dps the cruisers picked less dps, less tank, more speed and more projection. They picked fits which had significant tradeoffs but were rewarding if they had piloting skill and as such were able to win in spots where they shouldn't due to exploiting that piloting skill.

If warp disruptors don't lock down ships then you are forced to scram and brawl to get a kill and if you are forced to brawl then you are forced to just have more dudes in bigger ships. Right now you are not, fewer dudes can beat more dudes with piloting skill. It's not an issue of "well you can still lock them down while your blob gets there". We don't all have blobs.


It not only destroys the warp disruptor as a module but also any kind of agility/piloting skill based pvp because you can't guarantee a kill without being in their scram range. It's a huge, huge attack on a very popular style of pvp. People who try and win through manually piloting will not be able to attack half the things they currently can if they have to lock horns with a f1 brawl monkey in a brick scram ship to get a kill. It destroys their engagement profile.

You're not getting this. Right now 2 guys with cruisers and a lot of pilot skill can fight a half dozen larger ships as long as they are good at mitigating damage. I'm not saying the cruisers longpoint and call in help, I'm saying they longpoint and then kill them because where the larger ships opted for more tank and more dps the cruisers picked less dps, less tank, more speed and more projection. They picked fits which had significant tradeoffs but were rewarding if they had piloting skill and as such were able to win in spots where they shouldn't due to exploiting that piloting skill.

If warp disruptors don't lock down ships then you are forced to scram and brawl to get a kill and if you are forced to brawl then you are forced to just have more dudes in bigger ships. Right now you are not, fewer dudes can beat more dudes with piloting skill. It's not an issue of "well you can still lock them down while your blob gets there". We don't all have blobs.


It not only destroys the warp disruptor as a module but also any kind of agility/piloting skill based pvp because you can't guarantee a kill without being in their scram range. It's a huge, huge attack on a very popular style of pvp. People who try and win through manually piloting will not be able to attack half the things they currently can if they have to lock horns with a f1 brawl monkey in a brick scram ship to get a kill. It destroys their engagement profile.

Give all cruisers a massive speed boost and overall buff and no one cares, nerf BC speed and give them a option to be able to deal with kiters and suddenly everyone goes crazy. Like you, with your hyperbole hilarious nonsense.

and what of the small gang/solo brawlers that get blobbed to **** by kitescum

If you want a module that allows your brawling ship to escape a warp disruptor that actually already exists in the game, people typically don't fit them because they want to be able to be able to max out their dps/tank numbers in EFT without expecting any tradeoff or thinking about whether or not they can actually apply it in real PvP.

I hope you're not talking about a stab

Suggest that a brawler fit a module that reduces his lock range and takes the place of a damage lowslot in order to escape a longpoint and that's a totally unreasonable tradeoff to ask them to make. Fozzie suggests that kiters have to get into scram range in order to secure kills and somehow that's legit.

Fitting is a game of tradeoffs, each module comes at a the cost of the others you didn't fit. However not all tradeoffs are good, some are bad and make the module totally worthless, the warp disruptor having (advantage, can point things without getting scrammed, disadvantage, can never get a kill, ever) is not a sensible tradeoff for the module. It's already got a tradeoff, they can still mwd.

If you want a module that allows your brawling ship to escape a warp disruptor that actually already exists in the game, people typically don't fit them because they want to be able to be able to max out their dps/tank numbers in EFT without expecting any tradeoff or thinking about whether or not they can actually apply it in real PvP.

I absolutely agree that bcs are in a terrible place compared to cruisers right now, cruisers are ridiculously quicker than they were and generally have projection/application bonuses which the bcs lack. I just don't see how giving bcs the ability to escape from infinite longpoints if you refuse to brawl them is a solution to their problems. It's a much bigger issue of ship stats and bonuses and a gimmick that makes them unkillable except through brawling solves absolutely nothing.

The power creep infecting eve has made cruisers incredibly dumb and if they were toned down or bcs moved up in line with them that'd be awesome. I don't think cruisers are in a good place right now, their dps is only slightly lower than bcs, they have better bonuses and they have way better base stats. But MMJDs are not the answer to any part of that problem.

No, your whine is how your kiting backbone is "in danger" because you might miss some poor sod in a BC, using all kinds of hyperbole and dumb logic. Your "nonono, I'm in this for the good of the game" is very obvious.

so kind of like when kiting ships fill up on speed mods so they can engage without ever actually committing

Holy crap I wasn't serious. A STAB? Ho ho ho.

Also, you seem to be under the impression that there is no trade for a MMJD - they need to be fitted SOMEWHERE, they have steepish fitting requirements. There are trade offs.


Ho ho, stab. Still chuckling on that one.

I still contend that asking a brawler to fit a warp core stab to survive being kited is 10x more reasonable than asking a kiter to fit a scram to get a kill. A brawler can still brawl with a single stab, a kiter cannot kite in scram range.

fixed