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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
badboymark
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2014.05.19 06:01:00 -
[391] - Quote
Ines Tegator wrote:badboymark wrote:Chessur wrote:Ines Tegator wrote:Back on topic.
I want to reinforce the feedback about it's range. Normal BC combat range (not counting ABCs) is 50km and under. This module does nothing to encourage BC combat. It is an escape device, and cannot be anything else due to the limitations of the platform on which it is mounted. At the range this module operates at, on-grid tactical bookmarks already serve the same in-combat purpose. Which once again leaves it primarily as an escape tool.
Maybe (I'm being charitable and trying to find a combat role where this module makes sense) this is meant to give BCs mobility on a large fleet field, against larger ships that are more spread out. If so, it's poorly implemented and unfocused. It's not worth unbalancing the rest of gameplay for this single niche purpose.
The MMJD as implemented will not fulfill the intended purpose of encouraging CBC's on the battlefield. It will make avoiding PVP easier; it will not significantly change the composition of gangs (jump range / weapon range mismatch prevents sniper tactics).
Suggestions to correct these flaws:
Make it vulnerable to HIC scripted points.
Reduce the jump range to 75km.
Make it vulnerable to bumping, just like standard warp alignment.
Adjust Lowsec Gate Guns to allow 10-15 seconds on target for an Interceptor that agresses, allowing the Interceptor to serve as a counter to this module. Just make long points stop the MJD. Dont give 48 ships a get out of jail free card, when inside bubbles, or long pointed. That is ridiculous What about if faction disruptors stopped them ? That would be a simple warp strength thing. Which is a good idea as well (2+ long points deactivates it). +1
I'm not sure that would work because wouldn't that meann you can turn off MWD ? it would have to be a special trait or something right ? |
Chessur
Pod Liberation Authority
HYDRA RELOADED
342
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Posted - 2014.05.19 06:03:00 -
[392] - Quote
badboymark wrote:Ines Tegator wrote:badboymark wrote:Chessur wrote:Ines Tegator wrote:Back on topic.
I want to reinforce the feedback about it's range. Normal BC combat range (not counting ABCs) is 50km and under. This module does nothing to encourage BC combat. It is an escape device, and cannot be anything else due to the limitations of the platform on which it is mounted. At the range this module operates at, on-grid tactical bookmarks already serve the same in-combat purpose. Which once again leaves it primarily as an escape tool.
Maybe (I'm being charitable and trying to find a combat role where this module makes sense) this is meant to give BCs mobility on a large fleet field, against larger ships that are more spread out. If so, it's poorly implemented and unfocused. It's not worth unbalancing the rest of gameplay for this single niche purpose.
The MMJD as implemented will not fulfill the intended purpose of encouraging CBC's on the battlefield. It will make avoiding PVP easier; it will not significantly change the composition of gangs (jump range / weapon range mismatch prevents sniper tactics).
Suggestions to correct these flaws:
Make it vulnerable to HIC scripted points.
Reduce the jump range to 75km.
Make it vulnerable to bumping, just like standard warp alignment.
Adjust Lowsec Gate Guns to allow 10-15 seconds on target for an Interceptor that agresses, allowing the Interceptor to serve as a counter to this module. Just make long points stop the MJD. Dont give 48 ships a get out of jail free card, when inside bubbles, or long pointed. That is ridiculous What about if faction disruptors stopped them ? That would be a simple warp strength thing. Which is a good idea as well (2+ long points deactivates it). +1 I'm not sure that would work because wouldn't that meann you can turn off MWD ? it would have to be a special trait or something right ?
No. Warp strength does not determine MWD on / off. That is a warp scram only type of modifier on the module.
+2 Long points, already exist in game. They are officer long points. They do not turn off MWD |
Ines Tegator
Towels R Us
455
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 06:04:00 -
[393] - Quote
badboymark wrote:Ines Tegator wrote:
That would be a simple warp strength thing. Which is a good idea as well (2+ long points deactivates it). +1
I'm not sure that would work because wouldn't that meann you can turn off MWD ? it would have to be a special trait or something right ?
Yeah, it would suck if it worked on MWD too. Definately a MJD only thing. At the least the general is already in game for warp stabs.
note: if implemented, don't allow stabs to work on the MJD module. so many problems...
- Mission Overhaul - Bridging the PVP / PVE Gap -
-áIf the game stops teaching people to fear lowsec, maybe people will start going there? |
badboymark
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2014.05.19 06:06:00 -
[394] - Quote
Well they turn off MJDs ?? Also officer point are only for BS or larger due to PG need's........ so maybe we can get something for Sub BS class ship's ? |
X ATM092
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
307
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 06:08:00 -
[395] - Quote
So much effort to try and rework the implementation of a bad idea so it does minimum damage to the game. I agree that making it not work when longpointed or having a warp strength threshold of 2 or making you go 0m/s when you land would all help but the fundamental issue is that this is a module which is directly at odds with the functionality of the long point in eve pvp. |
X ATM092
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
307
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Posted - 2014.05.19 06:10:00 -
[396] - Quote
badboymark wrote:
Well they turn off MJDs ?? Also officer point are only for BS or larger due to PG need's........ so maybe we can get something for Sub BS class ship's ?
Officer points do not turn off MJDs. Scrams have two points of warp strength when counting for the effect of warp core stabilisers but two points of warp strength, such as two warp disruptors, are not a scram. |
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance
Team Amarrica
355
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 06:11:00 -
[397] - Quote
with this module release we now need a scram web module all in one so i can have mwd mjd tackle module and injector. |
Wrathful Penguins
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
41
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 06:30:00 -
[398] - Quote
or you could fly a myrm which has great dps, more than enough tank to endure someone trying to kite it and enough mids for mwd, injector, mjd, scram and web |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation
Goonswarm Federation
9974
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Posted - 2014.05.19 06:48:00 -
[399] - Quote
Ines Tegator wrote:Chessur wrote:So many bad posts in this page. So many people with no PvP experience mouthing off to players that are vastly more knowledgeable and experienced. Since you cannot post killboards, can we instead simply post kills of the more belligerent and misguided?
Challenged: 104 Kills / 58 Deaths
Arthur Aihaken: 65 Kills / 171 Deaths
epicurus ataraxia: 12 Kills / 17 Deaths
Does experience, and in game knowledge have any weight placed on the comments here? Because from what I am seeing- most if not all of the PRO MMJD are people have rather poor PvP skill / knowledge / experience. While the OVERWHELMING majority of people against MMJD have quite a bit more skill / knowledge / experience.
Can anyone help clarify this for me? As we all know, EVE is a single character-per-account and single account-per-player world. This means that anything posted by a character with no discernable pvp history is, in fact, stupid. Also, this is a form of ad hominem. The facts of the discussion are what matters, the source is irrelevent. Everyone could be anonymous and the content would not change.
Yes, I'm sure people with lots of PVP experience are posting on characters that have very little.
The vast majority of people who post with alts do so because they're afraid of retribution for their postings. People who PVP aren't afraid of that - most would probably welcome the attempt.
However much someone does or doesn't PVP is relevant to how likely it is that their argument is based in experience rather than conjecture.
"Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
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King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective
Unsettled.
116
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Posted - 2014.05.19 07:01:00 -
[400] - Quote
Interesting idea for DSTs, I'd expand this to the Orca for sure.
However, the BC thing is more complicated. MJD is meant to enhance mobility on slow and cumbersome ships.
1) ABCs don't need a mobility buff
2) CBCs don't have the lock range to use MMJDs as combat tactic
Which means that on CBCs, MMJD @ 100 would be a purely evasive tactic, but it wouldn't help them in actual combat at all. Make the MMJD range 50km, leave ABCs out of it, and it becomes an interesting tactical tool for CBCs.
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Kali Omega
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
145
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Posted - 2014.05.19 07:05:00 -
[401] - Quote
No..plain and simple |
Meandering Milieu
House Aratus
Fatal Ascension
50
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Posted - 2014.05.19 07:09:00 -
[402] - Quote
I'm up to page 18, but there is a bit of confusion on my part due to this thread and another.
This thread: Too easy to avoid fights, easy get out of jail free card, ect ect ect.
DST Thread: Worthless bonus, won't really help you escape anything, and single dictor will still stop you.
Either these are either overpowered get out of fight modules or they aren't, and I'm not sure which.
Suggestion, since CCP seems to want to nerf power projection, balance the isotope market, and give people these mods: Require a small amount of multispectrum topes to use them. Nothing huge, just a handful will do per jump. |
Meandering Milieu
House Aratus
Fatal Ascension
50
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 07:10:00 -
[403] - Quote
King Fu Hostile wrote:Interesting idea for DSTs, I'd expand this to the Orca for sure.
However, the BC thing is more complicated. MJD is meant to enhance mobility on slow and cumbersome ships.
1) ABCs don't need a mobility buff
2) CBCs don't have the lock range to use MMJDs as combat tactic
Which means that on CBCs, MMJD @ 100 would be a purely evasive tactic, but it wouldn't help them in actual combat at all. Make the MMJD range 50km, leave ABCs out of it, and it becomes an interesting tactical tool for CBCs.
What they really needed to do was capital MJDs. |
Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
254
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 07:14:00 -
[404] - Quote
William Darkk wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:These would work well on T3s and HACs also. That would completely defeat the point.
T3's could be given them during rebalance to make some use out of the less popular subsystems. Versatility over specialisation and all that.
LP store weapon cost rebalance |
Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
254
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Posted - 2014.05.19 07:16:00 -
[405] - Quote
Meandering Milieu wrote:King Fu Hostile wrote:Interesting idea for DSTs, I'd expand this to the Orca for sure.
However, the BC thing is more complicated. MJD is meant to enhance mobility on slow and cumbersome ships.
1) ABCs don't need a mobility buff
2) CBCs don't have the lock range to use MMJDs as combat tactic
Which means that on CBCs, MMJD @ 100 would be a purely evasive tactic, but it wouldn't help them in actual combat at all. Make the MMJD range 50km, leave ABCs out of it, and it becomes an interesting tactical tool for CBCs.
What they really needed to do was capital MJDs.
You already have something that delivers you, from multiple systems away, right to within 5km of whoevers day you're ruining. What more do you want?
LP store weapon cost rebalance |
Priestess Lin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
117
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Posted - 2014.05.19 07:19:00 -
[406] - Quote
ABCs should not get them. |
Meandering Milieu
House Aratus
Fatal Ascension
50
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Posted - 2014.05.19 07:27:00 -
[407] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:Meandering Milieu wrote:King Fu Hostile wrote:Interesting idea for DSTs, I'd expand this to the Orca for sure.
However, the BC thing is more complicated. MJD is meant to enhance mobility on slow and cumbersome ships.
1) ABCs don't need a mobility buff
2) CBCs don't have the lock range to use MMJDs as combat tactic
Which means that on CBCs, MMJD @ 100 would be a purely evasive tactic, but it wouldn't help them in actual combat at all. Make the MMJD range 50km, leave ABCs out of it, and it becomes an interesting tactical tool for CBCs.
What they really needed to do was capital MJDs. You already have something that delivers you, from multiple systems away, right to within 5km of whoevers day you're ruining. What more do you want?
The ability to jump from one cyno to another in the same system. The ability to bridge to a cyno in the same system would be amazing too.
Not even a cap pilot, I'm just messing around. The ability for a cap ship to instantly jump 100km would be nice though, since MJDs were apparently introduced to make ships more mobile. The battleship class clearly deserves it, and caps are even less maneuverable on field. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation
Goonswarm Federation
9975
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 07:46:00 -
[408] - Quote
Caps don't need MJDs.
"Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
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Wrathful Penguins
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
41
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Posted - 2014.05.19 07:55:00 -
[409] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:bcs don't need MJDs.
fixed
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King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective
Unsettled.
116
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Posted - 2014.05.19 08:00:00 -
[410] - Quote
Wrathful Penguins wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:bcs don't need MJDs. fixed
Combat BCs most certainly need something, more desperately than any other ship class atm. However, MMJD might not be it, and especially not 100km one.
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YariScur
POD Based Lifeforms
The Gorgon Empire
0
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Posted - 2014.05.19 08:03:00 -
[411] - Quote
This module will make situation with mid-size pvp even worse than it is now.
Could you please analyze pros&cons for longer period.
Mid-size MJD imho means "no brain, no tactics"
Thank you. |
Mike Whiite
Space Mutts
The Harlequin's
353
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Posted - 2014.05.19 08:07:00 -
[412] - Quote
Joining the people that want to leave the ABC out of it.
BS already struggle for a place in small gang warfare, this module would out class them ABC already do more damage than most ABS. |
Walextheone
The Red Circle Inc.
82
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Posted - 2014.05.19 08:49:00 -
[413] - Quote
I only know small gang pvp so I don't have enough know-how about how it will effect mid or large fleets. But as a "small ganger" I've lot of experience.
In short: I don't like the idea. Can't see add anything positive to the game.
A inty needs ~20s to move 100k to land a scram. That will give any sniping BC too much time to move another 100k to another direction making small engagements less fun.
Maby just give it to the t2 versions and not the t1s? |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
2141
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Posted - 2014.05.19 08:52:00 -
[414] - Quote
I still don't get what is up with the whole BC's are underpowered idea..
Stat wise they are pretty good.. But they are in an awkward middleground speed/powerwise.. Isn't that ok? I mean.. what are you going to do with them other than make them overpowered again to make them relevant? =/
BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Mody Warrior
Krasnodar sweet
0
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Posted - 2014.05.19 08:58:00 -
[415] - Quote
CCP STOP THIS
bcs don't need MJDs |
Adrie Atticus
The Shadow Plague
Fidelas Constans
107
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Posted - 2014.05.19 09:20:00 -
[416] - Quote
Walextheone wrote:A inty needs ~20s to move 100k to land a scram. That will give any sniping BC too much time to move another 100k to another direction making small engagements less fun.
Maby just give it to the t2 versions and not the t1s?
Don't forget that ships exit the jump at 100% speed sop they can instantly warp to their aligned direction. If you cannot catch it with a scram on the first go, it's already gone. |
rsantos
TEC-NOLOGY
Sorry We're In Your Space Eh
7
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Posted - 2014.05.19 09:39:00 -
[417] - Quote
Please!
Remove the disruptor immunity from all MJD modules.
Game already had a module to counter that.
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afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
54
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Posted - 2014.05.19 09:41:00 -
[418] - Quote
Ines Tegator wrote:To stop a MJD ship, you have to get in range and get a scram on it before the spool up time.
What's wrong with using a fast cruiser?
They'll be targeting BC's so lock time wont be an issue. BCs are also slow, so are limited in their ability to close gaps. Cruisers can suck up gate guns just fine and can be fit hella fast.
Serious question, I really don't see many things getting away from the quicker cruisers in the spool time. |
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
1230
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Posted - 2014.05.19 09:46:00 -
[419] - Quote
I don't think this is a good idea. |
Aiphona
The Scope
Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2014.05.19 09:51:00 -
[420] - Quote
Might as well just eliminate the long point entirely and just dictate that every fight now has to happen in scram range or your opponent will simply teleport away.
so NO to MMJD !!!
Or make all MJD's possible to tackle with long point.
It was ******** to begin with, why can a ship that is pointed warp???? |
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