I have a 60+ hour a week job. I consider myself a casual player.

I have between three and five active accounts from month to month. It's not even hard.

And yes, "solo mining", if by that you mean deliberately flying a "prey animal" ship, can get you shot at. Turns out if you choose to be a prey animal, the predator animals will try to eat you.

I just find it's too easy for gankers to kill even the most attentive miner 95% of the time if they show up in the same belt. I just feel the miner should NOT be unarmed (sorry, but I don't consider drones good enough).

There should be some way the miner can (on occasion) fit for 'anti-gank' and take down a ganker (who expected an easy killmail) WITHOUT concord intervention (as would be the case outside of high sec).

Ganking will happen (and should against AFK). Pro-active "Anti-ganking" should as well. This stuff about 'defense fits' and 'tanking' is all well and good, but gankers choose their targets. There should be targets that surprise the gankers by being a fighter instead a meal.

A dedicated combat hull can not do this because the ganker will not attack a warship. The ganker would leave the warship alone.

The ganker WOULD go after the 'anti-ganker' because it looks like his chosen prey. It looks like a meal, not hell-in-space.

So then you are actually asking for an all in one. A ship that can theoretically do both mining and combat, so a potential ganker would not be able to know whether it was fitted for combat or mining without ship scanning it? Well, I'll tell you right now that I don't think such a thing will happen, nor should it.

Also...

You do realize you can look at other player's turrets from a pretty damned long distance, right? It's a matter of about five seconds to see whether you're fitting strip miners or blasters/pulse lasers/autocannons/whatever. Nevermind that, if this theoretical new ship class was just sitting in a belt without mining lasers on, I wouldn't attack it in the first place.

This whole idea of "miners with teeth" falls apart when you take any human element, or game balance into account. It can be done with haulers anyway, just do that instead.

and you are not understanding what I mean by 'anti-ganking'.

ganking starts by the ganker deciding to attack a miner whom he is very certain he can kill. In high sec, he must be quick enough to do this before concord arrives, but otherwise, the ganker will reign supreme (unless the miner has friends in bound when the ganker appears).

To me, "anti-ganking" means the ganker THINKS he's going after a miner, but has attacked a warship. This means the target is NOT a miner (he can NOT mine at all). The target is a ship that LOOKS like a miner, but is armed and equipped to fight.

This is NOT a ship that "does everything" as you said. The ship has given up the ability to mine for another function. It is a ship that does one thing and one thing only... turn the tables on gankers who have gotten careless.

A dedicated combat hull can not do this because the ganker will not attack a warship. The ganker would leave the warship alone.

The ganker WOULD go after the 'anti-ganker' because it looks like his chosen prey. It looks like a meal, not hell-in-space.

look at history. in BOTH world wars, during the roman empire (and even before), and even today, Q-ships operated (and still operate) against submarines, raiders, and pirates.

That fact that haulers can be equipped for weapons is besides the point... mining barges and exhumers can not. If there were versions which enabled that barge or exhumer to GIVE up mining to ambush the ganker (who is already preying on unarmed miners), it would not be unbalancing.

This is what the mining cruisers used to be good at. Done right, you would convey the impression of a soft and easy target (i.e. a newbie with limited tanking skills), that could be handled by one or two gankers. But with less than 12 days training you were able to field a decent T2 tank. Concord did the rest.

but that option's no longer available, is it?

Oh Good Lord let's not bring irl into this, please. Not only was that the exception and NOT the rule, but such things still routinely died in the face of genuine military vessels, which is what pretty much every other class of ships is.




Both of those things are intended. The only dedicated mining ships that can fit guns are the Venture and the Prospect. And once again, this is because if you get Strip Mining modules, you do not get turrets. There is a reason for that.

If you want to "ambush the ganker" just try flying a Thrasher. You can almost one shot him with it. Or better yet, something with ECM, or logi on the miner he is attacking.

This is why I keep telling you that you're asking for an "all in one" uber ship. Because what you want already exists, you just want to have everything in one ship class. And that is just not acceptable.

correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the thrasher a warship? The exact type of vessel the ganker will avoid? The type that can NOT bait in a ganker to turn the tables on him?

I'm talking about giving a ganker a reason to hesitate before attacking an unarmed miner. Giving that ganker a reason to think "is this really a fat juicy target or is it something I don't want to mess with?" is the main purpose of Q-ships.

Make this available and gankers will be even more rare in high sec, but (most importantly) miners can then feel safer venturing into low and null because the gankers would hesitate.

Oh Good Lord let's not bring irl into this, please. Not only was that the exception and NOT the rule, but such things still routinely died in the face of genuine military vessels, which is what pretty much every other class of ships is.

gankers don't have standard fits, though.

I must say again. The Q-ship is NOT a miner. It does NOT mine. it is NOT a "do everything" ship. It has ONE function... combat against an attacker not equipped to meet resistance

but that option's no longer available, is it?

I will continue to watch people I introduce to EvE give up when their trial accounts expire.

Yeah, we definitely do. One thing we do well, and it's a large part of why we have adapted despite the repeated nerfs to ganking, is share information.



Lol. You have yet to explain how this is supposed to actually work. So how about some specifics, please? Are you going to just add a new class of Mining Barge that can't fit Strip Miners, but can fit guns? Or are you saying they should add gun slots to the current barges? Or what?

how about rigs or fitting that:
do NOT alter flight characteristics,
take up large amounts of ore hold (thus removing the ability to actually mine profitably),
but add
high slots for weapons
shielding
and/or power

...because I'm not allowed to mount weapons.

Yes it is. The new exhumers and barges do exactly that, and in some mining ships you can pack a bit of bite of your own.

Sort of. The cruisers had the advantage, that you could use mining drones for better deception and still mount a turret or launcher to have a chance of getting on the killmail .

My point is more towards the idea of GÇ£conveying the impression of a soft target with limited tanking skillsGÇ¥ GÇö that impression was shattered in the old days by using a scanner, same as it is today. If you could pull of that deception back then, you can do it now GÇö being in a squishy harvesting ship rather enhances the image than being in a combat shipGǪ

I can tell you right now, that CCP will never make Mining Barges into T3 cruisers. I honestly think they regret ever devising T3s in the first place.

There have been quite a few Dev comments indicating the T3 rebalance when it occurs will see them repositioned between T1 and T2, hence the "rebalanced" Tengu for example will be less powerful than a T2 like the Ishtar but more versatile.

This is what I keep trying to tell you. The Q-ship concept is s.t.u.p.i.d. It's a pipe dream, it doesn't take the realities of the game into account, and it doesn't belong in EVE Online.

how about rigs or fitting that:
1. do NOT alter flight characteristics,
2. take up large amounts of ore hold (thus removing the ability to actually mine profitably),
but add
3. high slots for weapons
4. shielding
5. and/or power