They've been rebalanced since and are good battleships at some roles - but not all.

I don't think anyone has said domis were overpowered since their last nerf.

It is perfectly possible to tweak the Ishtar so sentries are unattractive or incur fitting compromises without buggering every sentry user out there. To not do that and just gut sentries is to make sentries into 2014s heavy missile nerf.

It's not possible to have a HAC with identical sentry capability to a battleship balanced without destroying the battleship in the process.

Hell man, dominix is T1 and insurable, if they could remotely compete with ishtars, they would be used to win the isk war.



[[Edit: What I want to avoid is utterly destroying sentries as a platform for everything but the ishtar, which would then get nerfed anyway - which is what I mean when I say I want to avoid another round of "hml" nerfs. Because that's what happened there. CCP gutted HML because of drake, people warned that was a mistake yet it went in anyway. End result? Drakes then renerfed later, all other HML ships cease to undock/refit to RLML.]]

And the point is, if you nerf sentries to reign ishtars in, you break everything else.

This is not quite necessary (yet). There are other ways to handle the ishtar and keep the changes limited to that for a small pass.

Like I say, initially I'd like to see them forced into reasonably tough (it's a HAC, after all so you should be skilled to fit it well) fitting compromises to stop it being able to do everything in a single fit and reassess from there.


Don't get me wrong, long term it probably all needs looking at but in there here and now the istar needs sorting and then we want to see how the meta settles from there.

I'm thinking of boats with 100-125m3 and drone bonuses (plus the rattlesnake) - there are a few.

If you nerf sentries so the super bonused hulls are balanced, everything else that used is smoked as a number of hulls can and do use sentries without super bonuses. VNI, Geddon for example.



As I say I am not adverse a sentry rip up, but in the interim, something needs to be done about the Ishtar and my preference would be to fix that now in isolation rather than fix that now and take other hulls down with it as collateral damage. For example as I mentioned the drone control range bonus could be chopped forcing DLA fitting - which are CPU intensive and modify it's CPU so suddenly it has to think about its fitting options.

all that while tracking well enough to kill AB cruisers at tackle range.

Just pay attention on how far a geddon can project damage without usign ANY of his high slots!!!!

60km, is this a trick question ?

So why are more expensive Ishtars FOTM? Because they're flat out miles above everything else.

So, rather than debate in circles, how do you propose to fix all the 125m3 boats and STILL contain the ishtar? Because as I see it the first order of business is to get that thing off the steroids and down to the level of the rest, then assess the rest later on.

If you dont address the ishtar one of two things happen - the rest are nerfed to worthlessness and the ishtar is competitive. Or you nerf the others to competitive and the ishtar still smokes everything else.

It's a small patch, really, we're not going to change the world in this go around so the ishtar is definitely the right place to start.

Well it's still about 60km more than any BS if left without any high...

try and kill an ABing armor cruiser that is orbiting your sentries at 5k and let me know how that works out.

Well it's still about 60km more than any BS if left without any high...

yes you should not be able to kill it at 5 km. But you should not be able to kill it at 20 as well!!

Show me a large long rage gun that can track an AB cruiser at 20 km...

No.. be outtracked at 5 km is NOT enough!!! At that range even Pulse lasers and 800MM ac will be outracked!!!

You just supported my point that sentries track TOO MUCH for their range potential.

They are basically the only bttleships used. The dominix is the best fleet battleship unless you want to make an alpha fleet, the best close range battleship, the best POS bash battleship, the best RR gang battleship.

And like I keep saying if you dont fix the ishtar NOW, any sentry rebalance is doomed to failure on some level.

So how to we kick the ishtar down to domi power levels?

You mean short of making it slower and increase its sig to battleship levels ?

Exaclty.... they can dish 60 km range about same DPS than long range guns can dish on ships without range bonus. All taht without usign a SINGLE high slots or fitting.

I'm pretty sure 800's track better than gardes. 0.04 (at no skills) vs 0.04 (with no skills to improve it). Bonused hulls might change that. There may be rounder errors here, phone app.

30kms is hardly "long range".

Point is the "short range" sentries cant match tracking on guns of that size.


Irrespective, it's off on a tangent - how do we fix the ishtar? Without buggering loads of other stuff at the same time.

You people argue on the wrong question.
Sentries are OP, and it's by design.
Also, by design they have enormous drawbacks, which dont work though.
Now would you please stop spamming those innumerable comparisons.

[quote]
PS - how would you feel about an 8/4/7 Tempest?

hardly long range? That is about the range of a 1200mm...