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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 14 post(s) |
Johnathan Coffey
EVE Corporation 25112592124
15
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Posted - 2014.09.25 13:16:00 -
[121] - Quote
dexington wrote:Two step wrote:Where is this magic new requirement that you must be able to screw up what people want to do on their own time coming from? Do you also think ccp would add instanced pve missions and mining belts where people could be left alone, or should this new trend remain a dojo exclusive? Also stations, market orders, contracts, star gates and any other infrastructure that cannot be disrupted.
If your only argument is that ANY ship in space MUST ALWAYS be vulnerable to outside attackers, you have hereby disqualified yourself from the discussion. The real question is whether this proposed feature will make EVE a better game or not. First rule of EVE UI: right click EVERYTHING. |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3789
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 13:16:00 -
[122] - Quote
CCP Veritas wrote:Le Petite More wrote:Please consider that I have tried this and think it is a terrible idea.
Le Petite More wrote:These will also be abused the hell out of to create safe pockets for afk, well you can't call them cloakers because they won't have to cloak, cyno alts, scouts, supers, and links. Had you actually tried this you'd know the fight has a 5 minute timer. And that the only ships and modules that go in are ships and modules that are stocked in the dojo. Oye. Oooooooh SNAP
Anyone opposed to this is pretty much dumb, sorry. This is the most eve-like implementation of "structured fights" that you can possibly get, and it's awesome. There's simply no room for any other opinion. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Makari Aeron
The Shadow's Of Eve TSOE Consortium
108
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Posted - 2014.09.25 13:18:00 -
[123] - Quote
I think there's quite a bit too much knee jerk reaction here. While I am not keen on 1v1 fights as they really aren't realistic for my part of nullsec, when I get home from work I'll give this a try. Definitely good for testing out fits in a controlled environment. Though, that's sometimes what I use SiSi for since things cost 100isk. I'll leave my judgement for after I try out this new Dojo-thing-a-ma-bob-that-floats-in-space and I implore other to do the same. No need to give other players false impressions. CCP RedDawn:Ugly people are just playing life on HARD mode. Personally, I'm playing on an INFERNO difficulty..||| CCP Goliath:I often believe that the best way to get something done is to shout at the person trying to help you. ||| CCP Goliath:http://goo.gl/PKGDPZ |
Rizzen Lipton
Deadly Vanguards Dangerous Voltage
0
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Posted - 2014.09.25 13:21:00 -
[124] - Quote
We have lost the EVE's world pvp Very, very bad idea, CCP. |
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CCP Prism X
C C P C C P Alliance
1522
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Posted - 2014.09.25 13:22:00 -
[125] - Quote
There's something inherently novel about submitting prototype code on a design that's quite clearly going to be controversial, and then go post about it here to create a bit of forum drama, on your second last day at CCP. Scorched Earth all the way!
Man I'm going to miss you and your Cowboy ways. CCP Prism X Programmer Team Gridlock |
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Xander Phoena
Zebra Corp The Bastion
448
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Posted - 2014.09.25 13:23:00 -
[126] - Quote
mynnna wrote:CCP Veritas wrote:Le Petite More wrote:Please consider that I have tried this and think it is a terrible idea.
Le Petite More wrote:These will also be abused the hell out of to create safe pockets for afk, well you can't call them cloakers because they won't have to cloak, cyno alts, scouts, supers, and links. Had you actually tried this you'd know the fight has a 5 minute timer. And that the only ships and modules that go in are ships and modules that are stocked in the dojo. Oye. Oooooooh SNAP Anyone opposed to this is pretty much dumb, sorry. This is the most eve-like implementation of "structured fights" that you can possibly get, and it's awesome. There's simply no room for any other opinion.
Pretty much this. I cannot wait to see this on TQ. www.crossingzebras.com |
Dave Stark
6969
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Posted - 2014.09.25 13:25:00 -
[127] - Quote
mynnna wrote:CCP Veritas wrote:Le Petite More wrote:Please consider that I have tried this and think it is a terrible idea.
Le Petite More wrote:These will also be abused the hell out of to create safe pockets for afk, well you can't call them cloakers because they won't have to cloak, cyno alts, scouts, supers, and links. Had you actually tried this you'd know the fight has a 5 minute timer. And that the only ships and modules that go in are ships and modules that are stocked in the dojo. Oye. Oooooooh SNAP Anyone opposed to this is pretty much dumb, sorry. This is the most eve-like implementation of "structured fights" that you can possibly get, and it's awesome. There's simply no room for any other opinion.
sure it is the most eve-like implimentation, and it is awesome.
except i still don't think 'structured fights' should have a place in eve. especially when they're instanced off. |
Aiyshimin
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
80
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 13:28:00 -
[128] - Quote
mynnna wrote:CCP Veritas wrote:Le Petite More wrote:Please consider that I have tried this and think it is a terrible idea.
Le Petite More wrote:These will also be abused the hell out of to create safe pockets for afk, well you can't call them cloakers because they won't have to cloak, cyno alts, scouts, supers, and links. Had you actually tried this you'd know the fight has a 5 minute timer. And that the only ships and modules that go in are ships and modules that are stocked in the dojo. Oye. Oooooooh SNAP Anyone opposed to this is pretty much dumb, sorry. This is the most eve-like implementation of "structured fights" that you can possibly get, and it's awesome. There's simply no room for any other opinion.
I don't criticize the implementation, but the idea of structured fights is blasphemy in the first place.
Any supporters are pretty much dumb, sorry. There's simply no room for any other opinion. |
Marc Durant
139
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Posted - 2014.09.25 13:29:00 -
[129] - Quote
Please don't go. Yes, yes-áI am. Thanks for noticing.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8296
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 13:30:00 -
[130] - Quote
This is a bad idea. You don't offer instant gratification mechanics in a game about long term goals. And you don't introduce a distraction that pulls people away from interacting with other people in more meaningful ways. This is why a lot of the Incarna ideas were bad (in a game that relies on spaceships blowing up and people in spaceships doing things in space producing materials to fuel it's economy, giving people a reason to not undock is mind numbingly stupid).
To mke it was the same kind of thing wit |
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mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3791
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 13:30:00 -
[131] - Quote
If you don't like other people having structured fights, you can go inject a little bit of unstructuredness into their day by blowing up their dojo.
e: If structured fights have no place on TQ, do y'all folks also oppose the Alliance Tournament? New Eden Open? Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Aiyshimin
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
80
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Posted - 2014.09.25 13:31:00 -
[132] - Quote
Good things about EVE:
+ open world, unstructured full loot PVP
Bad things about EVE:
- all the rest
This prototype violates the core of the game. It would seriously be better to instance hisec missions than develop this any further.
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Bei ArtJay
The Tuskers The Tuskers Co.
86
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 13:31:00 -
[133] - Quote
My kid is about to wake up then I'm going to have to go to work after and it's not done patching... WANT NOW!!!!!
Hopefully some folks are on later to try this out, can't wait to have a go.
Also: Veritas how much IRL ISK bribe would you need to stay and finish this? I'm sure we could crowd-source a big fat bonus for you
To everyone whining like the little bitches you are: get out. Vertias spends some time making something fun to give to a part of the eve community that massively respect him as a leaving present and you troll the **** out of him. **** off and get out of this thread you ungrateful cunts. This is on duality and likely never to hit TQ, but would be really awesome if it could be run as a side server for eve-players to develop an eve e-sports scene, so quit pissing your panties and leave us tourney nerds be k thx.
And Veritas, thanks again for all your work at CCP and all the best for the future. |
Franky Saken
Hard Knocks Inc.
48
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 13:32:00 -
[134] - Quote
mynnna wrote:If you don't like other people having structured fights, you can go inject a little bit of unstructuredness into their day by blowing up their dojo.
But (as listed in OP) one of the primary objectives of this thing is "quick easy fair pvp" and the fights themselves should be untouchable.
Also wonder how stocking/deploying them combines with "quick easy pvp". |
Tyrendian Biohazard
Ubiquitous Hurt
337
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 13:35:00 -
[135] - Quote
Note: I am basing my understanding without having tried this out, but think I have my head wrapped around the concept based on the original post. From that reading, I also don't have much of a desire to try it out in the first place.
I'm going to put a +1 in the "would not like to see this happen on TQ column".
I'm not going to cry out this is the end of the sandbox, or EVE PvP would end, I think the fact that PvP would be handed to us, and consensual, is very anti-EVE. Sure people love the thrill of winning a fight with 5% hull, but just activating modules isn't just the only aspect of PvP. The searching, hunting, stalking, knowing the region, population, springing bait/traps, etc, are all aspects that could be affected by this (and in my opinion, those are some of the most fun things about PvP).
However, I do feel that if this ever made it to TQ (in its current form) it would be used less than the dueling feature (after the initial "everybody is doing it").
To quote CCP Falcon:
Quote:
I love EVE and the core of what the game stands for. That's why I've been dedicated to it and its community for over 11 years now.
Risk vs Reward is a huge part of that.
Honestly, if that changed, and the game started to soften out and cater to those who want to have their hand held all the way through their gameplay experience, I'd rather not be working on the project regardless of how many subscribers we had, than sell out the core principles that New Eden was built on.
That's a sentiment that I hear a lot around the office, because we are all invested in what makes New Eden so compelling - The dark, gritty, hard reality beneath the pretty ships and nebulas.
EVE is built on the core principle that you are never 100% safe, no matter where you go or what you do. When you interact with another player, you roll the dice on whether they're going to screw you over or not. That's a massive part of the social engineering behind the very basic underpinnings of the EVE Universe.
My twitch stream to help new players: http://www.twitch.tv/biohazrd51
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dexington
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1229
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 13:35:00 -
[136] - Quote
mynnna wrote:If you don't like other people having structured fights, you can go inject a little bit of unstructuredness into their day by blowing up their dojo.
e: If structured fights have no place on TQ, do y'all folks also oppose the Alliance Tournament? New Eden Open?
that sounds like an awful amount of work, maybe we can get a feature added that can blow it up for me, i really don't have time to fit a ship or undock and look for dojo's. I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Masao Kurata
Z List
78
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Posted - 2014.09.25 13:35:00 -
[137] - Quote
Here are some basic modifications you can do to make this acceptable:
Fights take place at the deployable. There should be nothing to stop you from warping to it. You have to be in your pod to board a ship from the deployable and risk getting podded, discouraging the use of expensive implants. Boarding a fitted ship from the deployable makes you drop fleet, enforces the boundary violation rule and enters you into a limited engagement with the opponent. Leaving that ship or joining a fleet counts as a forfeit but otherwise has no consequences. If foul play occurs that mechanically counts as a win, it's up to the participants to argue over it. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
Guardians of the Morrigan
66
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 13:36:00 -
[138] - Quote
Bei ArtJay wrote:My kid is about to wake up then I'm going to have to go to work after and it's not done patching... WANT NOW!!!!!
Hopefully some folks are on later to try this out, can't wait to have a go.
To everyone whining like the little bitches you are: get out. Vertias spends some time making something fun to give to a part of the eve community that massively respect him as a leaving present and you troll the **** out of him. **** off and get out of this thread you ungrateful **** s. This is on duality and likely never to hit TQ, but would be really awesome if it could be run as a side server for eve-players to develop an eve e-sports scene, so quit pissing your panties and leave us tourney nerds be k thx.
And Veritas, thanks again for all your work at CCP and all the best for the future.
1st what better send off then a troll 2nd most ppl in this thread like the idea and are just voicing concerns if it does find its way to TQ |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3791
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 13:38:00 -
[139] - Quote
Tyrendian Biohazard wrote:Note: I am basing my understanding without having tried this out, but think I have my head wrapped around the concept based on the original post. From that reading, I also don't have much of a desire to try it out in the first place. I'm going to put a +1 in the "would not like to see this happen on TQ column". I'm not going to cry out this is the end of the sandbox, or EVE PvP would end, I think the fact that PvP would be handed to us, and consensual, is very anti-EVE. Sure people love the thrill of winning a fight with 5% hull, but just activating modules isn't just the only aspect of PvP. The searching, hunting, stalking, knowing the region, population, springing bait/traps, etc, are all aspects that could be affected by this (and in my opinion, those are some of the most fun things about PvP). However, I do feel that if this ever made it to TQ (in its current form) it would be used less than the dueling feature (after the initial "everybody is doing it"). To quote CCP Falcon: Quote:
I love EVE and the core of what the game stands for. That's why I've been dedicated to it and its community for over 11 years now.
Risk vs Reward is a huge part of that.
Honestly, if that changed, and the game started to soften out and cater to those who want to have their hand held all the way through their gameplay experience, I'd rather not be working on the project regardless of how many subscribers we had, than sell out the core principles that New Eden was built on.
That's a sentiment that I hear a lot around the office, because we are all invested in what makes New Eden so compelling - The dark, gritty, hard reality beneath the pretty ships and nebulas.
EVE is built on the core principle that you are never 100% safe, no matter where you go or what you do. When you interact with another player, you roll the dice on whether they're going to screw you over or not. That's a massive part of the social engineering behind the very basic underpinnings of the EVE Universe.
Plenty of risk here - the person that deploys and stocks the Dojo is risking it and everything he puts in it. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Gorski Car
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
376
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 13:42:00 -
[140] - Quote
This is a pretty dank feature. You'll cowards dont even smoke crack #GORSKI4CSM https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4265138#post4265138
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Lugh Crow-Slave
Guardians of the Morrigan
66
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 13:43:00 -
[141] - Quote
mynnna wrote: Plenty of risk here - the person that deploys and stocks the Dojo is risking it and everything he puts in it.
Can I assume there will also be loot dropped |
Makari Aeron
The Shadow's Of Eve TSOE Consortium
108
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 13:43:00 -
[142] - Quote
mynnna wrote:If you don't like other people having structured fights, you can go inject a little bit of unstructuredness into their day by blowing up their dojo.
e: If structured fights have no place on TQ, do y'all folks also oppose the Alliance Tournament? New Eden Open?
Oppose? Not particularly. Think they are pointless to my playstyle? Yes. Is AT and NEO good to attract attention to the game? Yes. Is it relevant to "normal" Open World PvP in EVE? No.
While I don't believe in structured fights on TQ, I can understand why others would and as such I am not opposed to having the option if I change my mind. CCP RedDawn:Ugly people are just playing life on HARD mode. Personally, I'm playing on an INFERNO difficulty..||| CCP Goliath:I often believe that the best way to get something done is to shout at the person trying to help you. ||| CCP Goliath:http://goo.gl/PKGDPZ |
Skyler Hawk
The Scope Gallente Federation
22
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Posted - 2014.09.25 13:46:00 -
[143] - Quote
This sounds like a pretty cool idea and I'll give it a try when I get the opportunity. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8297
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 13:46:00 -
[144] - Quote
mynnna wrote:If you don't like other people having structured fights, you can go inject a little bit of unstructuredness into their day by blowing up their dojo.
e: If structured fights have no place on TQ, do y'all folks also oppose the Alliance Tournament? New Eden Open?
No, because those invovled a very few people. This is a 'global' game mechanic. One of the things that makes EVE, well, EVE is that it has nothing that even looks like Instancing. This looks like Instancing.
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Mangala Solaris
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1127
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 13:47:00 -
[145] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:mynnna wrote: Plenty of risk here - the person that deploys and stocks the Dojo is risking it and everything he puts in it.
Can I assume there will also be loot dropped
Yes wrecks drop.
You can reinforce dojos, so I assume if they do not get scooped, then you can pop them and take the stuff (note assume, im still mucking with things). RvB Ganked: EVE's Number One Public Roam |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8301
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 13:48:00 -
[146] - Quote
Masao Kurata wrote:Here are some basic modifications you can do to make this acceptable:
Fights take place at the deployable. There should be nothing to stop you from warping to it. You have to be in your pod to board a ship from the deployable and risk getting podded, discouraging the use of expensive implants. Boarding a fitted ship from the deployable makes you drop fleet, enforces the boundary violation rule and enters you into a limited engagement with the opponent. Leaving that ship or joining a fleet counts as a forfeit but otherwise has no consequences. If foul play occurs that mechanically counts as a win, it's up to the participants to argue over it.
This post here is what I would find to be MINIMALLY acceptable for this kind of feature. |
Kaeda Maxwell
Carebear Luv Klub Neo-Bushido Movement
314
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Posted - 2014.09.25 13:50:00 -
[147] - Quote
Great! Can't wait to see this on TQ eventually.
To the slippery slope folks; This changes nothing the people that are primarily interested in this feature aren't in space for you to fight anyway. You know what was the most novel thing about this years AT? That the people that won in actually fly on TQ in PvP regularly (something that hasn't been true of the of previous years winners for a few years they seem to mostly just play EVE for tournaments and that has been the case ever since AT9 pretty much). This is CCP potentially adding a feature that may stop many of us 1vs1 & esports types from simply walking away from EVE for games like LoL & DotA. We aren't the people you're hot dropping, we aren't the people you catch in gate camps. At best we're the guy killing your light tackle in a solo boat on TQ. I've been a member of the solo and frigate community for some years now and that community has only gotten narrower for years, CCP adding stuff that keep players in the game is a good thing, not a bad thing. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8301
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 13:54:00 -
[148] - Quote
CCP Veritas wrote:
Once matched up with another player in the dojo, youGÇÖre both whisked away directly from station to your ships, assembled from the items in the dojo, in a deadspace pocket placed randomly in space thatGÇÖs guarded from people warping to it - theyGÇÖll warp to the dojo deployable if they try.
To be totally clear, THIS is the un-EVE-like thing many of us are protesting. This should never EVER happen on Tranq, under any circumstances, 5 minute timer or not.
hard as hell to probe things in this pocket, sure. Impossible. NO, that's basically instancing and EVE online should no do this. don't give in to the instant gratification crowd guys. Don't go down this slope.
At the end of the day it's CCP's game and y'all will do whatever (and you're doing this won't be the end of the game in general or even for me personally), but this is not a good idea. Not in any way, shape or form. You'd be changing the core of what EVE is. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8302
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 13:58:00 -
[149] - Quote
Kaeda Maxwell wrote:
To the slippery slope folks; This changes nothing the people that are primarily interested in this feature aren't in space for you to fight anyway.
This do not matter. The possibility of non-consensual pvp ANYTIME in any space in new eden is a CORE principle. This idea violates that core principle.
I hope like so many other EVE prototypes, this one dies before it can become anything other than a prototype, it changes the basic nature of the game even if Dojos are vulnerable and even if it doesn't have an affect on most EVE players. If you want to do 'mini-tournament' with low chance of interference there are plenty of empty systems all across New Eden, or on SiSi. |
Edward Olmops
Gunboat Commando
196
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Posted - 2014.09.25 13:59:00 -
[150] - Quote
Again. This is REALLY great.
And to those who disagree: it's already there today on TQ - only people have to relog to World of Tanks or LoL.
-have them stay in EVE -let them have fun -very important: more explosions!
2nd round effect: After bored players can blow up their stuff MUCH faster than they do know, guess what happens. The number of farmers must increase (=targets for open world PvP aficionados) and/or the PLEX price goes down, because people have to buy new stuff to burn in the dojos.
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