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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 14 post(s) |
Sydon Audeles
Valkyries of Night
Of Sound Mind
1
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Posted - 2014.09.25 17:10:00 -
[361] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Sydon Audeles wrote:As we were discussing this in my alliance IRC, someone brought up this idea as an alternative: Make a deployable object that gives a data-dump of CREST info like we had for the alliance tournament for everything happening within a certain distance of it - say, 200km. To offset the additional computing time/server cost, make it cost Aurum. Then you can setup your little tournaments around the deployable, get all that extra data to look at and analyze (and check for people breaking your tournament's rules) and have fun with, all without changing fundamental EVE mechanics whatsoever. You could also use this as a training tool - setup one of these things, duel someone a few times, then use a tool like null-sec.com's ATXII replays to point out what they did wrong or how they could have handled a situation better.
This moves forward the goal of helping people do cool things with private tournaments or events, but doesn't screw with core EVE ideas or mechanics. The reason this works for the alliance tournament, and possibly for dojos, is that they are restricted to the maximum number of participants. If a deployable was deployed in a big fleet battle we couldn't do what we do for the alliance tournament.
Totally understandable. Could it be feasible then to have this module auto-deactivate if it finds more than X number of ships in range? That way if there are only, 2 or 10 or 20 ships in range it works but if someone drops it during a 1000 man fleet fight it just doesn't do anything. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8335
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 17:10:00 -
[362] - Quote
Bamboozlement wrote:
Cloaked people in safes aren't subject to anything, are you new or something?
cloaked people in space can't shoot guns. They can in 'Dojospace'.
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Ais Hellia
The Deliberate Forces
HYDRA RELOADED
49
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Posted - 2014.09.25 17:11:00 -
[363] - Quote
Sydon Audeles wrote:
Dojo doesn't do anything about implants either, and someone found to have boundary violated could be easily DQ'd after verifying with CREST if you didn't notice during the fight.
Well it should be able to check implants maybe putting implants inside too and then you will have them in your cargo at the arena and your current implants if there are any destroyed at the moment of teleportation
And the team clean sweeping the opponent 100-0 should be disqualified if 1 of their frigate pilots violated the boundary? really?
that's why you need full set of tools at least on sisi to have fights run smoothly and in decent time spans |
baltec1
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
13321
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 17:15:00 -
[364] - Quote
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:baltec1 wrote:
All we ask is to be allowed to backstab you.
Yeah, go and reinforce the dojo, or have 10 catalysts ready as i land on the dojo and attempt to enter it. Or join the dojo corp, rise to position of power, then steal the frigates out of the dojo.
Quote:Fights need to be un-screw-with-able. We strongly feel that if whatGÇÖs supposed to be a GÇ£fairGÇ¥ match given a set of predetermined rules is thrown off course by outside influence, it invalidates the whole premise.
This is the part we are not happy about. This should never happen in EVE.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5892
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 17:16:00 -
[365] - Quote
While respecting both sides of the debate, I have to point out a few things.
Putting what is essentially a training room on the live server is NOT inherently a bad thing... nor is it a "Un-EVE" thing. It is simply another tool.
The only clear mistake is this concept (quite forgivable as it is a rough prototype) is pitching it as combat taking place in a secure dead space area.
If instead it was pitched as an "In game combat simulator" where a "virtual battle" was taking place there wouldn't be quite the huge wave of concern right now. To make this seem correct the two pilots who enter into actual combat in this manner should disappear from local.
That way, for all intents and purposes, the pilots involved are in a "simulator pod" somewhere.... like an arcade in space... and are essentially considered out of normal bounds much like anyone else who is docked.
It's a subtle change of mindset, but there it is.
The advantages to having a combat simulator/training room on the live server are immense, and the only folk that will likely use it will be folks either training noobs.... or noobs themselves trying out combat for the first time.
Now if you are simply giving it a thumbs down because you don't want the population of combat experienced pilots to go up... well... that fairly lame my friend.
If you dislike this because it challenges the stark, harsh, consequence filled nature of EVE... seriously... relax. You're not going to find people abandoning their normal activities in EVE to take part in an endless series of 5 minute matches.  And even if some did devote themselves to this, they aren't the pilots you'd find in space making a contribution to the game anyway. They'd be the pilots that never leave the noob systems (or undock period), so you've lost nothing.
If you think about it, it's fairly silly that something similar hasn't been part of EVE since the beginning... as it only makes sense to have a method available (on the live server) where you can try out different fits and tactics in a combat situation that isn't constantly prone to outside interference. It simply doesn't make good sense to NOT do this.
So just think of this as a training/combat simulator on board that station, an arcade within a game if you will. Eventually your sphincter will return to normal. 
If you like EVE Online and War Thunder content stop by my YouTube channel.-á
Ranger 1 Presents
https://www.youtube.com/user/Ranger1Presents |
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 17:17:00 -
[366] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Bamboozlement wrote:
Thanks, I was using your logic.
Again you use that word while demonstrating a lack of it.
Uh, you are not very smart, since I'm in a good mood I'll explain slowly;
- You asked for something stupid like being able to gank a dojo, while the point of the dojo is to have fair and controlled fight
- I asked for something stupid like being able to get the API of a character in game while the point of having an API is to only give it to people (you think) you can trust.
I can go even slower if it's still hard for you to understand.
Domanique Altares wrote:Bamboozlement wrote: logic. There you go using that word again. One day you'll figure out what it means, and you'll probably stop posting.
And instead of proving me wrong you post this? When I call you out on something I also explain why you are wrong, I don't just spout my opinion.
Stick to facts and arguments, if you can of course, I'm a professional internet argue-master.  |
Ais Hellia
The Deliberate Forces
HYDRA RELOADED
49
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 17:17:00 -
[367] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Bamboozlement wrote:
Cloaked people in safes aren't subject to anything, are you new or something?
cloaked people in space can't shoot guns. They can in 'Dojospace'.
they can only shoot things that can shoot them back
cloak is a single person instance - deal with it |
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 17:19:00 -
[368] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Bamboozlement wrote:
Cloaked people in safes aren't subject to anything, are you new or something?
cloaked people in space can't shoot guns. They can in 'Dojospace'.
My point is, your idea of people can be ganked everywhere is wrong.
Remember this is a sandbox there is no good way to play, as shown by the "blue donut" in null sec.  |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5892
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 17:20:00 -
[369] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:baltec1 wrote:
All we ask is to be allowed to backstab you.
Yeah, go and reinforce the dojo, or have 10 catalysts ready as i land on the dojo and attempt to enter it. Or join the dojo corp, rise to position of power, then steal the frigates out of the dojo. Quote:Fights need to be un-screw-with-able. We strongly feel that if whatGÇÖs supposed to be a GÇ£fairGÇ¥ match given a set of predetermined rules is thrown off course by outside influence, it invalidates the whole premise. This is the part we are not happy about. This should never happen in EVE.
Baltec1, respect, but the popularity of the tournaments we all enjoy says otherwise. We enjoy those on a very regular basis, and the same logic that necessitates their isolationist nature holds true for this situation as well.
Competition and training in 5 minute matches isn't going to harm the harsh nature of EVE in the slightest... other than to perhaps raise the general quality of pilot you meet in combat.
If you like EVE Online and War Thunder content stop by my YouTube channel.-á
Ranger 1 Presents
https://www.youtube.com/user/Ranger1Presents |
baltec1
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
13325
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 17:21:00 -
[370] - Quote
Bamboozlement wrote:baltec1 wrote:Bamboozlement wrote:
Thanks, I was using your logic.
Again you use that word while demonstrating a lack of it. Uh, you are not very smart, since I'm in a good mood I'll explain slowly; - You asked for something stupid like being able to gank a dojo, while the point of the dojo is to have fair and controlled fight - I asked for something stupid like being able to get the API of a character in game while the point of having an API is to only give it to people (you think) you can trust. I can go even slower if it's still hard for you to understand.
You still don't grasp that this game is one in which while you are undocked and in space shooting at another ship you are open to attack from other ships. This idea flies in the face of this core aspect of the game and reduces options that I want to take.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8336
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 17:21:00 -
[371] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:baltec1 wrote:
All we ask is to be allowed to backstab you.
Yeah, go and reinforce the dojo, or have 10 catalysts ready as i land on the dojo and attempt to enter it. Or join the dojo corp, rise to position of power, then steal the frigates out of the dojo. Quote:Fights need to be un-screw-with-able. We strongly feel that if whatGÇÖs supposed to be a GÇ£fairGÇ¥ match given a set of predetermined rules is thrown off course by outside influence, it invalidates the whole premise. This is the part we are not happy about. This should never happen in EVE.
Exactly.
NO ship in space on TQ should be "un-screw-with-able", not even the one I'm sitting in that I did 10 hours of incursions to afford (*pats Machariel like a favorite pet*).
The core concept of EVE means something (to people who actually care about EVE). You don't screw that up in even minor ways because people are too lazy to scan out a wormhole to find an empty system to screw around in unmolested.
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Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
Point Blank Alliance
3098
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 17:22:00 -
[372] - Quote
Bamboozlement wrote:
Stick to facts and arguments,
It's a fact that you don't know what logic is. You keep posting all the proof I need to back my arguments with every reply.
"i advice you to go spit on the back of someone else because you are fall on the wrong horse." - Meio Rayliegh |
baltec1
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
13325
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 17:23:00 -
[373] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:
Baltec1, respect, but the popularity of the tournaments we all enjoy says otherwise. We enjoy those on a very regular basis, and the same logic that necessitates their isolationist nature holds true for this situation as well.
Competition and training in 5 minute matches isn't going to harm the harsh nature of EVE in the slightest... other than to perhaps raise the general quality of pilot you meet in combat.
Gotta disagree. I can take the tool as something cool and handy for running your own competitions but I cannot back something that will effectively instance you from the rest of EVE and stop people from messing with you.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
1402
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 17:23:00 -
[374] - Quote
Garmon wrote:Gilgamesh BoShudda wrote:Great, so now when I am flying around in FW lowsec looking for frig fights, instead of finding mostly stabbed and cloaky frigs, I will find ONLY stabbed and cloaky frigs. All of the players who would normally be venturing out into FW systems looking for fun fights will instead just stay docked in the hubs. If this ends up on TQ, it will kill frig PVP. you're fuc king reta rded This pretty much sums up this entire thread. The part where a few CSMs came in to say (more or less word for word) "if you disagree with this you're dumb" was particularly gratifying. This has to be one of the most polarised threads I've seen in terms of IQ. It's nice to know that, as someone who plays EVE for EVE and not for Dota in space, I'm keeping good company.
Anyway, I'm actually torn over this reaching TQ. On the one hand it is obviously a terrible idea, but on the other I've always kind of wanted to see what would happen if you offered instant gratification PvP to our "hurf durf I play EVE I'm so hardcore" playerbase. An experiment worth the potential costs I think.
Think about it - if adding instant graitifaction PvP on TQ 'kills EVE' - wasn't it really dead all along anyway?
[witty image] - Stream |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
5162
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 17:24:00 -
[375] - Quote
Ais Hellia wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Bamboozlement wrote:
Cloaked people in safes aren't subject to anything, are you new or something?
cloaked people in space can't shoot guns. They can in 'Dojospace'. they can only shoot things that can shoot them back cloak is a single person instance - deal with it
that's the dumbest thing iv read today by a large margin
=]I[= |
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 17:24:00 -
[376] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
You still don't grasp that this game is one in which while you are undocked and in space shooting at another ship you are open to attack from other ships. This idea flies in the face of this core aspect of the game and reduces options that I want to take.
And then stuff like AT, NEO and solo pvp videos happened, and people liked it.
Bad POS management is a core aspect of the game, I won't cry when CCP fix it.
Deal with it and HTFU. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8336
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 17:24:00 -
[377] - Quote
Bamboozlement wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Bamboozlement wrote:
Cloaked people in safes aren't subject to anything, are you new or something?
cloaked people in space can't shoot guns. They can in 'Dojospace'. My point is, your idea of people can be ganked everywhere is wrong. Remember this is a sandbox there is no good way to play, as shown by the "blue donut" in null sec.
allow me to rephrase then. Everyone who can have a physical affect on someone else in space on tranquility should be subject to the underlying LAW of EVE Online space flight ie "a ship in space can never be safe from unwanted pvp".
The same reason why Tech3s become scannable is the reason why these "unscannable deadspace pockets" should not exist.
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Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
1402
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 17:26:00 -
[378] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:If instead it was pitched as an "In game combat simulator" where a "virtual battle" was taking place there wouldn't be quite the huge wave of concern right now. To make this seem correct the two pilots who enter into actual combat in this manner should disappear from local. No, it should involve actual ships being destroyed, at least that way my industrial activities will be unaffected, maybe even boosted if lots of people engage in Dota-in-space.
[witty image] - Stream |
Ruric Thyase
Star Frontiers
Test Alliance Please Ignore
51
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 17:27:00 -
[379] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Bamboozlement wrote:baltec1 wrote:Bamboozlement wrote:
Thanks, I was using your logic.
Again you use that word while demonstrating a lack of it. Uh, you are not very smart, since I'm in a good mood I'll explain slowly; - You asked for something stupid like being able to gank a dojo, while the point of the dojo is to have fair and controlled fight - I asked for something stupid like being able to get the API of a character in game while the point of having an API is to only give it to people (you think) you can trust. I can go even slower if it's still hard for you to understand. You still don't grasp that this game is one in which while you are undocked and in space shooting at another ship you are open to attack from other ships. This idea flies in the face of this core aspect of the game and reduces options that I want to take.
Bold added by me.
This is why I can't give much credibility to your posts. That and you and bamboozle have been fairly rude to one another.
If you can have YOUR unfair fights, why can I have MY fair fights. Whose entitlement do we have to bow to? Why can't we have both? |
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 17:27:00 -
[380] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:Bamboozlement wrote:
Stick to facts and arguments,
It's a fact that you don't know what logic is. You keep posting all the proof I need to back my arguments with every reply.
Again, instead of "highlighting" why I'm presumably wrong you keep posting your opinion on how I'm wrong because you said so.
I wonder why  |
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Ruric Thyase
Star Frontiers
Test Alliance Please Ignore
51
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Posted - 2014.09.25 17:28:00 -
[381] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Bamboozlement wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Bamboozlement wrote:
Cloaked people in safes aren't subject to anything, are you new or something?
cloaked people in space can't shoot guns. They can in 'Dojospace'. My point is, your idea of people can be ganked everywhere is wrong. Remember this is a sandbox there is no good way to play, as shown by the "blue donut" in null sec. allow me to rephrase then. Everyone who can have a physical affect on someone else in space on tranquility should be subject to the underlying LAW of EVE Online space flight ie "a ship in space can never be safe from unwanted pvp". The same reason why Tech3s become scannable is the reason why these "unscannable deadspace pockets" should not exist.
Please provide source of this LAW |
baltec1
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
13326
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 17:30:00 -
[382] - Quote
Ruric Thyase wrote:
If you can have YOUR unfair fights, why can I have MY fair fights. Whose entitlement do we have to bow to? Why can't we have both?
We do have both right now. You can run 1v1s and I can backstab you and vice versa. This removes my option to backstab you (and adds a bunch of underhand uses a few of which I pointed out)
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8337
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 17:30:00 -
[383] - Quote
Ruric Thyase wrote:
If you can have YOUR unfair fights, why can't I have MY fair fights. Whose entitlement do we have to bow to? Why can't we have both?
What you just said is like saying "I know this is WoW, but I like spaceships, why can you have you elves and unicorns but I can't have my Vindicator to kill wild boars?".
EVE is built around the concept of non-consensual pvp. You can't have your "consensual only" pvp instances because then EVE effectively ceases being a non-consensual pvp game. |
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
561
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 17:31:00 -
[384] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Quote:Fights need to be un-screw-with-able. We strongly feel that if whatGÇÖs supposed to be a GÇ£fairGÇ¥ match given a set of predetermined rules is thrown off course by outside influence, it invalidates the whole premise. This is the part we are not happy about. This should never happen in EVE.
I say otherwise. My voice counts exactly as much as yours.
The fact that CCP has been working on it as far back as 6 months ago means they are leaning in my side's direction.
The door is that way if you are unhappy. |
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 17:31:00 -
[385] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
allow me to rephrase then. Everyone who can have a physical affect on someone else in space on tranquility should be subject to the underlying LAW of EVE Online space flight ie "a ship in space can never be safe from unwanted pvp".
The same reason why Tech3s become scannable is the reason why these "unscannable deadspace pockets" should not exist.
But this is just your opinion, stuff like AT and NEO exist and eve players love it.
Just deal with the fact that people are playing the game differently, if eve was 100% sandbox it would be chaos (I would like it tho) we have game limits to keep the gameplay enjoyable/playable.
Asking to gank dojos is stupid, it's against the dojo design itself. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8337
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 17:32:00 -
[386] - Quote
Ruric Thyase wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Bamboozlement wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Bamboozlement wrote:
Cloaked people in safes aren't subject to anything, are you new or something?
cloaked people in space can't shoot guns. They can in 'Dojospace'. My point is, your idea of people can be ganked everywhere is wrong. Remember this is a sandbox there is no good way to play, as shown by the "blue donut" in null sec. allow me to rephrase then. Everyone who can have a physical affect on someone else in space on tranquility should be subject to the underlying LAW of EVE Online space flight ie "a ship in space can never be safe from unwanted pvp". The same reason why Tech3s become scannable is the reason why these "unscannable deadspace pockets" should not exist. Please provide source of this LAW
http://www.eveonline.com/
|
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 17:33:00 -
[387] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Ruric Thyase wrote:
If you can have YOUR unfair fights, why can I have MY fair fights. Whose entitlement do we have to bow to? Why can't we have both?
We do have both right now. You can run 1v1s and I can backstab you and vice versa. This removes my option to backstab you (and adds a bunch of underhand uses a few of which I pointed out)
Except that you can still gank the non-dojo 1v1, and that player run 1v1s are hard to normalize (implants, mods, neut logis, etc). |
Anslo
Scope Works
13944
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 17:33:00 -
[388] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Ruric Thyase wrote:
If you can have YOUR unfair fights, why can't I have MY fair fights. Whose entitlement do we have to bow to? Why can't we have both?
What you just said is like saying "I know this is WoW, but I like spaceships, why can you have you elves and unicorns but I can't have my Vindicator to kill wild boars?". EVE is built around the concept of non-consensual pvp. You can't have your "consensual only" pvp instances because then EVE effectively ceases being a non-consensual pvp game.
You whine a lot about new ideas proposed for Eve. If you don't like them, maybe Eve is not the game for you?
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Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 17:35:00 -
[389] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Ruric Thyase wrote:
If you can have YOUR unfair fights, why can't I have MY fair fights. Whose entitlement do we have to bow to? Why can't we have both?
What you just said is like saying "I know this is WoW, but I like spaceships, why can you have you elves and unicorns but I can't have my Vindicator to kill wild boars?". EVE is built around the concept of non-consensual pvp. You can't have your "consensual only" pvp instances because then EVE effectively ceases being a non-consensual pvp game.
Using your flawed logic :
EVE is built around the concept of bad POS management, you can't have your "nice POS management" instances because then EVE effectively ceases being a bad POS management game.
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Cy'ferth
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 17:36:00 -
[390] - Quote
I like the idea of people having their fair fights in eve honestly those who feel eve's unfair nature goes against them i do feel this might make eve's pvp future uncertain.
Because it might encourage people to sit in a station in a queue for pvp (like other mmo's going) and i feel that eve will suffer because of this.
IMO. |
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