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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 41 post(s) |
Logon Trap
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2014.10.02 02:09:00 -
[2221] - Quote
HarlyQ wrote:So this only hurts people that can not afford multiple clients that can fly caps. If you do not have more than 3 clients now your unable to do anything. Poor people just got smacked :(
thanks obama |
Kalissis
48
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Posted - 2014.10.02 02:10:00 -
[2222] - Quote
Wolfhound32 wrote:As I see it, Logistics will be severely hampered but then again it forces local production into a degree of greater prominence. Massive but loose alliances will fail because they are full of self centered lazy people seeking only personal profit and that wont participate in escort duties. I foresee allot of people getting kicked out of Corps and alliances for not helping with moving assets or being productive. The tight knit smaller alliances will be stronger because they will work together for common goals better and won't be hot dropped every time they turn around. They will be forced to defend smaller regions that are easily accessible to their caps and black ops which, I think, means they wont hold sov over vast regions of empty space making room for others that can't do so now to move in and claim it. Moving caps through gates is great, they will require escorts which makes sub caps important, instead of treated like the bastard children they are now, for the protection of the fleet and webbing caps so they can warp quicker. Getting resources to High Sec for pure profit takes a backseat to using those resources for local production. Getting newbies into null? Install their clones in a rorqual and plan on guarding it in systems it jumps into.
+1 on point |
Gospadin
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
201
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Posted - 2014.10.02 02:10:00 -
[2223] - Quote
I really hope phase 2 eliminates both local chat outside of hisec and locator agents. |
Paynus Maiassus
Capital Munitions
118
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Posted - 2014.10.02 02:10:00 -
[2224] - Quote
All this posting is giving me jump fatigue. |
Joey Zasa
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
11
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Posted - 2014.10.02 02:10:00 -
[2225] - Quote
Joey Zasa for CSM, just sayin'
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Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
475
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 02:10:00 -
[2226] - Quote
lol... a lot of idle threats by cap pilots to unsub.
I recall reading the same posts by the same players after each and every change to caps, and not a single one of them has ever unsubbed. Boy who cried wolf, and all that.
Seriously, CCP should know that cap pilots belong to the players who have the most RL time and money vested in the game, and thus are the least likely to quit - no matter how hard they are spanked by changes to the game. These are not the casual players, who play an hour or two at most per week and will easily move on to the next shiny game.
Star Citizen, anyone? Yeah, right. |
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
613
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 02:11:00 -
[2227] - Quote
Yuri Fedorov wrote:The fatigue thing is kinda interesting, but 5LY range is too short. If the current ranges are kept (or minor tweaks) this will be much better.
5 LY perfect and a good starting point. I think It should be 0 but working back from 5 is doable
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Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2014.10.02 02:11:00 -
[2228] - Quote
This effectively amounts to a soft reset of nullsec, as it will force blocs to consolidate.
And that is a brilliant thing. |
Viceversa
Rotten Kimchi Squadron
Brothers of Tangra
15
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Posted - 2014.10.02 02:11:00 -
[2229] - Quote
Kah'Roor wrote:Viceversa wrote:A simple conclusion.
CCP doesn't want users to transport their cargoes to deeper and dangerous sites.
and it will form a crucial barrier for small scaled dwellers at NPC null or low sec like Solitude or Aridia.
Isn't it bit against what CCP has spoken? Your in a renter Alliance. I live in Curse. Please speak for me some more.
Your region is cursed being unable to transport anything massively. |
Iam Widdershins
Spidercakes Baked Goods and Industriel Servises
871
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 02:12:00 -
[2230] - Quote
This is the most fascinating and incredible change, and I think the unstoppable power of even this mind-blowing threadnaught does not begin to do it justice. This is the biggest change I have ever seen made to a game that I've played any length of time.
I think that overall this is a change reflecting a good philosophy. I like the way this is going and I mainly only have nitpicks.
It might be a good plan to have extremely large values of fatigue decay at an increased rate based on how much fatigue you have, which would eventually even out some of the absolutely preposterous jump cooldowns currently apparent in certain spreadsheets to more of a brutal but still logarithmic curve. If every 1 fatigue you had past 20 increased fatigue decay by .002 per minute that would be good and would prevent people from outright ruining their accounts. Or you could, say, add a skill that increases fatigue decay by .0005 per level for each fatigue over 20.
With changes as described, people ruining their characters forever is more than possible; it's actually inevitable that someone will achieve this within a couple weeks of release by jumping 5 LY every single time their timer comes off cooldown; it is totally possible for a new player to jump through a bridge every time their timer goes off cooldown for convenience's sake, then decide they want to train capital ships. By the time they are in a well skilled capital ship, what's this? They still have many thousands of fatigue left and they are useless.
Lobbying for your right to delete your signature |
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Robert Parr
Iron Tiger T3 Industries
18
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Posted - 2014.10.02 02:13:00 -
[2231] - Quote
As a scum bag high sec bottom feeder who has had to endure nerf, after nerf, after nerf, and listen to the delirious joys over my misfortune ....I must say it is with no small amount of pleasure that I say: Null sec tears, BEST tears and if you are quitting obligatory....can I has your stuff???? |
Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
68
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 02:13:00 -
[2232] - Quote
A counter-proposal.
Tie jump fatigue to hull.
Make a ship with a jump fatigue above a certain threshold acquire a proportional sensor recalibration delay.
This will make it possible to move things, but impossible to use them if moved too far. Thus it won't result in a mass suicide of logistic people, but still prevent rapid redeployments and hotdrops across the map. Also it goes around the ferry-alt problem.
Well, you could still repackage your hull. Losing rigs. Which would require a dockable station. And a thick wallet if you want to do this witch cap rigs. Or you could make fatigued hulls unrepackageable. |
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
613
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 02:13:00 -
[2233] - Quote
Gospadin wrote:I really hope phase 2 eliminates both local chat outside of hisec and locator agents.
Notification, Player watch list and Local. |
Alp Khan
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
172
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Posted - 2014.10.02 02:14:00 -
[2234] - Quote
Yogsoloth wrote:Alp Khan wrote:
I'm sorry, I'm not going to spend hours of my life to simply move subcapitals around. I refuse to spend half a day simply to move minerals and my production goods to and from Jita. This is a game, not a second job.
This is the point exactly. It'll be soo unpleasant to try and hold soo much space that large entities will cease to do so. Hence opening the door to new and smaller entities that will actually occupy and live in the space they hold.
On the contrary, I'm talking about personal logistics. Alliance and coalition logistics aren't handled by a single person in a large entity such as CFC, teams of people work on that, and their sizes can be accommodated to amplify any arbitrary ~bright idea~ Grayscale's brain trust can spit out. A large entity has thousands of man hours and ~jump hours~ to be able to throw out at this ridiculous change.
On the other hand, I'm a single guy. I live in null. I'm having to subscribe six separate accounts already to be able to live out from where I live, and have a reach to universal trade hubs and to make a living.
It is going to take me at least half a work day of waiting out jump fatigue with this genius system to be able to do what I could do in an hour currently, with or without a Jump Freighter. And here's the best thing about it: I'm actually very lucky in the sense that my alliance holds some of the best regions, if not the best regions in null to live out of with this jump fatigue non-sense taken into consideration. CFC will have it sweet and easy if the changes get implemented! Other null dwellers, regardless of whether they are living in sov null or NPC null are getting hit worse. Whereas I'll have to spend half a day to make a trip to the universal trade hub, Jita, they will have to spend DAYS if they only have a single pilot, and one and a half day if they personally own multiple JF pilots!
Do not get me wrong, I'm not defining myself as a casual player. Quite the contrary, even as a non-casual, serious gamer, spending at least half a work day to be able to complete the non-trivial task of transporting basic goods that I need to sustain my presence in null is ridiculous.
It is obvious that implementing such a poorly thought, arbitrary and weak idea on the game will cause subscription fatigue on players of EVE Online, a MMO game which has bled out subscribers severely in the last few years. This will, I'm afraid, in turn impose existential fatigue on CCP, a for profit company that does not have any other game that generates revenue or any other game that is expected to generate revenue, currently in development.
On a sidenote, I'm looking forward to follow Grayscale's future in the gaming industry with such an impeccable credential under his belt if this takes place. I believe I have met with two-months old newbies in EVE that understood what is taking place in nul |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1929
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 02:14:00 -
[2235] - Quote
Just have to say I am sorry for being late to the party but!!!! WHOOOOOHOOOOO!!!!! ITs about time!!!!!!!!
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
CCP Goliath wrote:
Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad. |
Gevlin
killer taxi company
239
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 02:14:00 -
[2236] - Quote
I think this will super interesting.
Titan jumping from system to system, with an escort roaming ready to jump on another fleet, or being pinned down by a counter fleet.
I can see jump clone bays being more viable as pod pilots try to re enter the near by battle by jump cloning to a Titan ship or a Rorqual to re-enter the fight from a ship provided by the Titan or support super carriers and carriers.
The titan - the New Mother Ship.
With the ability to move capatals through or along the route of jump gates (using the jump gates as becons and the stable translink provided by Jump gate connections not producing jump fatigue will still mean movement of these ships, but make them more vulnerable.
Deads will be like giant siege engines being towed all over the landscape in smaller groups. Instead of their surgical strike forces they have become.
All my pilots are Cap pilots I am happy to see this. Now just to get a stable internet connection is the next step. Oh and the time to play.
Looks like the larger alliances will start having to play like smaller ones inorder to get the biggest bang for the buck.
Sweet sweet medium battles can be seen on the horizon!
Some day I will have the internet and be able to play again. |
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
Executive Outcomes
17
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 02:14:00 -
[2237] - Quote
Caldari 5 wrote:I haven't read the entire thread, but have read the Dev Posts.
Has anyone considered the movement of materials via Jump Bridge using industrials with this change? Example that comes to mind is Mining and refining in a Minmatar station, and then using a Kyros to move the minerals at a latter stage to an Amarrian station for the use of capital production. Because lets face it that kind of movement isn't what I think CCP was trying to nerf. Possible solution would to be include all Industrials/Shuttles/Mining Barges/any other non combat ship in the JF/Rorq exception list.
- fit cloak+mwd
- have mid warp safespots.
- have a scout.
try it. works just fine. |
Joey Zasa
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
11
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 02:15:00 -
[2238] - Quote
Viceversa wrote:Kah'Roor wrote:Viceversa wrote:A simple conclusion.
CCP doesn't want users to transport their cargoes to deeper and dangerous sites.
and it will form a crucial barrier for small scaled dwellers at NPC null or low sec like Solitude or Aridia.
Isn't it bit against what CCP has spoken? Your in a renter Alliance. I live in Curse. Please speak for me some more. Your region is cursed being unable to transport anything massively.
confirmed, what the renter said. |
smokeydapot
MSE-corp
Northern Associates.
8
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Posted - 2014.10.02 02:17:00 -
[2239] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Preface: this is a big change. Yes, the way you play now is, as it relates to things touched by these changes and to varying degrees, no longer going to be viable. If that wasn't the case, these changes wouldn't be worth making in the first place.
This isn't a business-as-usual tuning pass, this is redefining what jump drives are *for* in this game.
DonGÇÖt you think you should find a more defined role for caps.
Dreadnaughts what are they for in the eyes of CCP devs ?
Carriers what are they for in the eyes of CCP devs ?
Once you have done that then maybe balance the jump drives and mechanics around them.
CCP Greyscale wrote:Yes, we have. The 5 LY range was chosen after looking at gaps between regions. 5 allows you to cross many of them. The larger gaps, such as some of the drone region jumps, were never going to be crossable with any of the range of ranges we'd be comfortable with. In some cases yes, this will lead to gate bottlenecks for capitals, and the geography of these areas will become very significant, yes.
5Ly was not enough for the black ops when they got the jump range buff why is this acceptable now ?
In short you want to improve null / low by putting a cap on every gate, extending the time and cost of resource movements and hitting the small guys where it hurts that is in the limited number of capital pilots they have an time to blob.
Carriers are logistical platforms as per the triage module and yet they get the bat because some Dev somewhere still thinks itGÇÖs a good idea they should launch ALL the drones including fighters, Define the role of carriers better before you take this over sized bat to the jump drive of it.
IGÇÖve been plugging the idea of more capital ships and by extension T2 capital mods for some time now ( without success ) and I donGÇÖt mean siege or triage modules ( while these where a welcome addition ) I mean like armour repair modules, shield boosts and guns.
Now IGÇÖm also going to suggest you get your fingers out of the GÇ£ more mechanics needed GÇ£ jar and get them into the GÇ£ more ships GÇ£ jar.
Split regular carriers into two groups logistical and combat define them as such ( no crossed bonuses ) give the logistics of the game more of a role than GÇ£ your carrier can do everything GÇ£ mentality, This is something I would have expected be changed during the ship rebalancing but I guess rise and fozzy where to engrossed in 100 page threadnaughts to think in depth about something as trivial as that.
CCP Greyscale wrote:*Every* controversial change hurts the little guy too much. It's good that all the big guys are there to look out for them.
Then I am lost how does this improve null / low if the little guy canGÇÖt even get through the door ?
It just leaves null bears in null blocking all the regional gates with bubbles and eyes.
And being part of quite a few " big boys " I'm guna tell you now no one wants to use jump bridges to get titan bridged return to the staging system and find out they can't get back home where they need to be because of cool down timers they will just let the small guys burn.
Nova Fox wrote:So...
1. Jump Ship
2. Clone Exits Ship
3. Fresh Clone Enters Ship
4. Jump Ship
5. Exited Clone Body Jumps Home
6. Rinse Repeat Until destination.
You are kidding yourselves if you think you will implement something like this and people wont exit the ship at every jump just to get further with a different guy.
I personally have 5 carrier toons you put this ill thought short sighted crap in and watch me do exactly this.
CCP Greyscale wrote:Everything old is new again.
A polished turd is still a turd...
|
Kah'Roor
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
9
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 02:17:00 -
[2240] - Quote
Viceversa wrote:Kah'Roor wrote:Viceversa wrote:A simple conclusion.
CCP doesn't want users to transport their cargoes to deeper and dangerous sites.
and it will form a crucial barrier for small scaled dwellers at NPC null or low sec like Solitude or Aridia.
Isn't it bit against what CCP has spoken? Your in a renter Alliance. I live in Curse. Please speak for me some more. Your region is cursed being unable to transport anything massively.
Will the changes hurt me ...sure a little. Is it worth it to help the stagnant renter culture we have now.....yes. |
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Yuri Fedorov
Circle Mercs
The Bastion
16
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Posted - 2014.10.02 02:19:00 -
[2241] - Quote
I wonder how this will work if fatigue is tied to the the ship's jump drive (wear and tear, ship's engineers need to service the drive before continuing kinda thing) instead of a per character thing.
edit: reason is this will prevent alts just for moving ships around. |
Protocon
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
1
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 02:19:00 -
[2242] - Quote
Kah'Roor wrote:Viceversa wrote:Kah'Roor wrote:Viceversa wrote:A simple conclusion.
CCP doesn't want users to transport their cargoes to deeper and dangerous sites.
and it will form a crucial barrier for small scaled dwellers at NPC null or low sec like Solitude or Aridia.
Isn't it bit against what CCP has spoken? Your in a renter Alliance. I live in Curse. Please speak for me some more. Your region is cursed being unable to transport anything massively. Will the changes hurt me ...sure a little. Is it worth it to help the stagnant renter culture we have now.....yes.
adaptation to change is alot like butt sex, if you never liked it before, you probably wont like it now... |
GeeBee
Paragon Fury
Tactical Narcotics Team
50
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 02:19:00 -
[2243] - Quote
Terrible, just terrible, I used to believe in you, now I don't believe in anything......
1) Capitals should not use stargates
2) The capital jump range change to justify capitals using stargates is also unacceptable.
3) The fatigue system alone could be viable if the numbers were tweaked and potentially putting a cap on the fatigue.
4) Jump bridges should not have an effect on fatigue.
5) The fatigue system alone ruins the ability to use carriers as a ferry ping ponging from system to system.
6) Large entities will simply have large caches of capitals in different regions and hand them out to eligible pilots.
Overall this proposed change looks like a step in the wrong direction with many unforeseen consequences towards an end goal that will likely not be achieved.
This is an extremely heavy handed approach to the large entities throwing caps around, with huge impacts on smaller entities attempting to move around.
If you intend on this form of change.
JFs and Rorquals should be completely except from any of these changes.
Carriers ability to be used as a ferry for pre-fit combat ships becomes completely non-viable, I can completely understand the nerfing of carriers for the combat blobbing, but as is we almost need another carrier class thats sole purpose is to move subcaps that is exempt from these changes for logistical purposes, typing this out this sounds almost as silly as the proposed changes, which should be an indication of the proposed changes sillyness for me to feel compelled to type this out.
The only potential content creation this change has is strategic gate camps or escorts, if there are any block level fights going on its going to escalate into a powderkeg over a few small systems with potentially larger numbers than before because everyone will see the escalation coming before it happens and follow suit and join in.
I lied I didn't believe in you before either. |
BoBoZoBo
Paragon Fury
Tactical Narcotics Team
481
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 02:20:00 -
[2244] - Quote
Obsidian Hawk wrote:Ding ding ding. History class is now in kids.
Did you know that Goons, BoB and ASCN. Had stupid huge e.pires before super caps, jump bridges and hot drops? How many years did they hold territory?
These people became big because they worked as a team. For logistics, for building and conquering. So you caps are getting nerfed. You have one month to use your brains to find a solution around this. Maybe like do the pony express and have one jf jump into system, trade with a lerson in their alliance and make the next jump doing a series of chain jumps to make the delivery.
This guy understands.
I can tell you this - the blocs.... They are not shaking thier heads and positioning on the forums because they feel they are being logistically eviscerated. They have enough funds, cooperation, communication, alts, and mastering of game mechanics to always devise a winning strategy.
They are shaking their heads because they know how bad of a decision and application it is for the game as a whole.
Primary Test Subject GÇó SmackTalker Elite |
Vigilanta
S0utherN Comfort
DARKNESS.
45
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Posted - 2014.10.02 02:20:00 -
[2245] - Quote
After having some time to think about this more..
The biggest issue I have is that you can not cross the galaxy in a reasonable amount of time. It is my belief that crossing the galaxy should take 3-4 hours. At 3-4 hours to cross the galaxy you make it so that you can no longer hotdrop everything in site, but you can get to a fight if it runs long enough. If you are engaged for 3-4 hours it should be able to escalate to large levels. So if i am sieging towers in stain, i can siege them realtivly easily without risk of suddenly supers from dronelands, but on the same token It doesnt take me multiple days to move from feythabolis to deklin which is rediculous.
Some people may suggest that this wont break up the powerblocs, on the contrary It will as it wont be feasible for me to transit from one timer to the other in less than an hour if its a couple regions away. Thats all you need to do increase the time it takes to transit a little bit not alot. what we currently have proposed is that it will take godawful long to go pretty much anywhere not within my local region. Yes power projection needs a nerf, but it doesn't need to be that nuts. Try some babysteps see hwo it plays out, dont go full ****** if you dont need to |
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
Executive Outcomes
17
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 02:21:00 -
[2246] - Quote
Komi Toran wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:
- Cyno mass limits mean the alliance willing to create the most cyno alts wins, this is not a good thing to incentivize.
No. This is exactly what you want to incentivize. If a coalition wants to jump in a large fleet, you want them to have to send in an expeditionary fleet first, which is more vulnerable than just a single cyno. -Increase fitting/fuel requirements of cynos so insta-warp interceptors cannot fit/use them. -Get rid of jump fatigue and add jump disruption: For 1 minute after jumping through a non-cov-ops cyno, a ship cannot warp and cannot cloak. For 10 minutes after jumping through a cyno, a ship cannot light another cyno. -Do not allow cloaks and non-cov-ops cynos to be equipped to the same ship. Now you have means for small-gangs of players to attack power projection, and who cares about cyno alts.
killing 1 or 2 cynos to stop them from jumping in is easy. killing 20, 30, 40 ... is just insane.
Greyscale is right. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1559
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 02:21:00 -
[2247] - Quote
All you people crying about timers realise it's nowhere near as bad as you think. Over long distances it's actually more sensible to wait out your first fatigue timer fully rather than rapid jumping.
Or if you set it up nicely, jump once.
Take gates while the timer ticks down.
Jump again
Rinse & repeat mixing gates & jumps to create the fastest overall travel while not maxing out your timer ever. |
uziel99
Multiplex Gaming
The Bastion
5
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Posted - 2014.10.02 02:22:00 -
[2248] - Quote
DNSBLACK wrote:Yuri Fedorov wrote:The fatigue thing is kinda interesting, but 5LY range is too short. If the current ranges are kept (or minor tweaks) this will be much better. 5 LY perfect and a good starting point. I think It should be 0 but working back from 5 is doable
No blops then. Puts you out of business. |
Protocon
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
1
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Posted - 2014.10.02 02:23:00 -
[2249] - Quote
uziel99 wrote:DNSBLACK wrote:Yuri Fedorov wrote:The fatigue thing is kinda interesting, but 5LY range is too short. If the current ranges are kept (or minor tweaks) this will be much better. 5 LY perfect and a good starting point. I think It should be 0 but working back from 5 is doable No blops then. Puts you out of business.
should read my reply about adaptation... |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
176
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Posted - 2014.10.02 02:24:00 -
[2250] - Quote
So you guys wanted big battles to get you head lines so you listened to the big boys and made changes that helped them which helped you get news on huge super cap fights destroying huge dollar amounts of real life money if you convert the value of all the ships lost to real money with the current market value of PLEX.
So now you are pissed that null sec has stagnated which is not only the logical outcome of the changes you've made but predicted by many people on the forums here. So now that you got what you wanted instead of addressing the root issue that you created you want to start trying to force certain types of game play rather than incentivize.
With every change I wonder if the people making the calls at CCP have clue or if they even play this game. Instead of focusing on specific game play mechanics like this you need to first change the basic attitude and focus of you development teams. The key needs to be around usage.
isk needs to be made from space getting used not space being owned. passive income needs to go. tools need to be put in place so corps and alliances can earn isk based on how much their system is used. This creates incentives for them to open the space up and make it safe for neutrals. With neutrals comes action and shake ups.
Another thing that I don't think you are considering is that PL hotdropping lone small T1 ships with super capital fleets when they are bored only happens because if things get hot fast they can get support quickly. Restricting the ability to bring in back up quickly in some cases will reduce the useage of capitals not increase. Well I guess like you guys said we'll see how things shake out. I just think you guys are barking up all the wrong trees and in recent years I seem to be proven correct more often than not on this kind of stuff.
The other consideration that you guys need to take into account is that you just had an expansion that increased the need to jump stuff in and out of null for the industry of this game to function and now you are going to jack around with jumping mechanics? It just has bad idea written all over it. |
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