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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Miss President
SOLARIS ASTERIUS
19
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Posted - 2011.11.30 02:41:00 -
[211] - Quote
After my first post, I have to say that the new font makes me not want to play eve. It's such a turn away.
It make me dizzy, because it's hard to read and requires constant refocusing. What took a fraction of second to read before now takes a full second to just start reading. Reading is completely counter intuitive. Now takes into mind that each area of interface is at different font size, different scale and different spacing - making it seem like you're reading 10 different fonts - all of which suck.
Our mind can briefly glance at something with normal fonts and get the message, with new font I don't find it possible.
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Vera Godspiel
The Perfect Harvesting Experience
4
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Posted - 2011.11.30 02:42:00 -
[212] - Quote
Tippia, From what i've read you are one of the few that simply knows what she's talking about.
To the opposers of this new font; I've yet to hear an actual valid argument why it is bad. The only one that makes a little bit of sense is that it doesn't (really) fit the game. I do prefer to be able to read easy over a cool scifi font that is unreadable. And there isn't really an option that does both.
For as far as it goes, the new font is very readable and for something that has to be readable on small sizes too, it's rather science-fictiony.
If you really want to compare it to other things I've heard... just check this link.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/42088264@N06/6428511925/
EDIT: Oh .... Amber Green Thorn seems to know what she's talking about too :D, posts go fast..... |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1766
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Posted - 2011.11.30 02:42:00 -
[213] - Quote
Psychophantic wrote:Old font + UI scaling = ? GǪit would have been the same horrid result, only at a different size. The problem with the old font was that it tried to reuse shapes for similarly-shaped glyphs, which is actually the exact opposite of what you want to do if you're aiming for good readability. It's one way of creating a mechanistic consistency and symmetry, but while GǣprettyGǥ, neither of those are good things give you a good text flow.
What it does is generate the exact problems the old font had: glyphs that share the same basic form, with only a gap or a single hairline separating them become indistinguishable. The difference between an GÇÿ8GÇÖ and a GÇÿBGÇÖ is that the left-hand side of the B is straight, whereas it is bubbly on the 8. A good font will enhance and accentuate these differences. The old font, by going for the GÇ£consistent formGÇ¥ style did the opposite and instead wiped those differences out. Same with 5 and S; 1, I, and l; 6 and G; O and 0; and then there was the very tiny difference between capitals and lower-case letters that added even more similar glyphs to the mix.
Quote:All I want is the OPTION to use the old font.
You like the new font, fine, good for you, keep on arguing as to why it's so much better than the old one. I will, seeing as how people keep arguing that it's worse. The problem with giving you the choice is that they most likely have to completely rewrite the windowing and UI element system to account for the different text flows and UI element positioning such an option will create. I would very much like them to do this as well, since that would potentially solve (as in Gǣstop dead in its tracksGǥ) the bloating of the assets window that happens with every patch, but when I see people argue that the old font had no readability issues, I quite honestly have to question their visual acuityGǪ
Crosi Wesdo wrote:The new font is not as good as the old one, even if the old one wasnt perfect it didnt break thinks like icons in space and on overview to be half-decent (90% scaled). Neither does the new one. Just as much fact. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Oylmpia
Oylmpia Holdings Ltd
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 02:44:00 -
[214] - Quote
Old font was all kinds of terrible. I stopped playing EVE because of it.. made my eyes hurt at 2560x1600.
New one with scaling is much better.
I don't really care how the game looks like. If I was able to choose I would pick something like Tahoma and in general make the game look more like Office 2010 :P |
Crosi Wesdo
Spiritus Draconis
55
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Posted - 2011.11.30 02:46:00 -
[215] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:The new font is not as good as the old one, even if the old one wasnt perfect it didnt break thinks like icons in space and on overview to be half-decent (90% scaled). Neither does the new one. Just as much fact.
Thats where you are wrong again. Scaling the font to 90% to make it look better and give me space back on my screen makes the icons for gates, stations, and everything else on the overview scale too. To repeat, scaling this font DISTORTS icons in space AND on overview. I spend 20 seconds trying to find some ammo i dropped in a can for my alt and practically couldnt see the can in space because it was small and faint.
The old fond didnt do that. Fact. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1766
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Posted - 2011.11.30 02:47:00 -
[216] - Quote
Vachir Khan wrote:So you tell me it's not a fact but an opinion and then you use your own opinion as a basis to say I'm wrong? Nope.
Quote:The font looks looks out of place; it's too big, draws way too much attention to itself and stands out like a sore thumb. GǪand the fact of the matter is that I think it's a good size; that it fits the theme quite nicely; and that it is no more or less subtle than any other font. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Rhaegor Stormborn
BURN EDEN Northern Coalition.
171
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Posted - 2011.11.30 02:48:00 -
[217] - Quote
Tippia wrote:[The problem with giving you the choice is that they most likely have to completely rewrite the windowing and UI element system to account for the different text flows and UI element positioning such an option will create.
And this is what I am paying them to do. If they can't do it right, then they should not have done it at all.
The new font is terrible. The new font is terrible.
CCP Punkturis is the worst Dev.-á Fix the font or you will be the 21st percent. |
Crosi Wesdo
Spiritus Draconis
55
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 02:50:00 -
[218] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Quote:The font looks looks out of place; it's too big, draws way too much attention to itself and stands out like a sore thumb. GǪand the fact of the matter is that I think it's a good size; that it fits the theme quite nicely; and that it is no more or less subtle than any other font.
So you think this font is just as subtle as say the font from the title of the simpsons, or some spooky halloween gimmick font? Just using your style of literal interpretation against you here. But taking what you said literally like you do for others, you just lost the negligible credibility you had on this subject. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1766
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 02:51:00 -
[219] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Thats where you are wrong again.
Scaling the font to 90% to make it look better and give me space back on my screen makes the icons for gates, stations, and everything else on the overview scale too. To repeat, scaling this font DISTORTS icons in space AND on overview. No. What you're describing is the UI scaling, not the font. The scaling affects more than just the font size. Your problem is that you're mixing the two up. What you're saying is not GÇ£factGÇ¥.
Quote:The old fond didnt do that. Fact. Neither does the new one. Fact. You're barking up the wrong tree.
Quote:So you think this font is just as subtle as say the font from the title of the simpsons, or some spooky halloween gimmick font? That's a pretty laughable strawman argument. Can you come up with a proper one instead?
Rhaegor Stormborn wrote:And this is what I am paying them to do. If they can't do it right, then they should not have done it at all.
The new font is terrible. The new font is functional, unlike the old one, and it was needed regardless of what other things they wanted to do with the UI. They are already doing exactly what you're telling them to do: not changing something until they can do it right GÇö that's why we're not getting a selectable font at this time. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Crosi Wesdo
Spiritus Draconis
55
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Posted - 2011.11.30 02:55:00 -
[220] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:Thats where you are wrong again.
Scaling the font to 90% to make it look better and give me space back on my screen makes the icons for gates, stations, and everything else on the overview scale too. To repeat, scaling this font DISTORTS icons in space AND on overview. No. What you're describing is the UI scaling, not the font. The scaling affects more than just the font size. Your problem is that you're mixing the two up. What you're saying is not GÇ£factGÇ¥. Quote:The old fond didnt do that. Fact. Neither does the new one. Fact. You're barking up the wrong tree.
You always resort to semantic nonsense. The fact is that the overall appearance of the font, to get it looking reasonable, as in, scaling the ui to cut the font down to size, results in the distortion of very important markers in the game. As a pvp'er i probably need more information on screen than you do to buy things from the nex store for example.
I realise that you never undock, so it always surprises me how active you are rallying against people legitimate concerns.
I could imaging you back in the war telling the jews to just relax and gas chambers are probably for the best. |
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49125
Haemus Frigidus
6
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Posted - 2011.11.30 02:56:00 -
[221] - Quote
Re-subbed only a couple of weeks ago after a long break. I awoke early and patched and played ... and got a migraine.
Please add an option to cycle Proper case and UPPER.
Also, please allow the selection of a single font size that applies to all EVE windows, tabs, counters - everything. |
Psychophantic
157
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 03:00:00 -
[222] - Quote
Vera Godspiel wrote: To the opposers of this new font; I've yet to hear an actual valid argument why it is bad.
It's not a fixed width font. Looks bad in multiple columns like angular / radial / velocity in overview.
The font spacing is messed up. I'm looking at my overview in 100% atm and an angular of 0.097 has the seven actually touching the nine.
At 100% default UI scaling the font is larger than the old one. Who would have thought that increasing the size of a font would make it more readable. To see the same amount of information in windows now takes up more screen real estate at 100%.
If I lower it to 90% the overview text is perfect. Context font size can be adjusted no probs. Headers are now too small, item counts are too small, ammo count on modules is now too small. All icons on overview and in space are now too faint.
Just a few valid arguments off the top of my head. |
Vachir Khan
TriSeq Defence Group
71
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 03:03:00 -
[223] - Quote
Psychophantic wrote:Vera Godspiel wrote: To the opposers of this new font; I've yet to hear an actual valid argument why it is bad.
It's not a fixed width font. Looks bad in multiple columns like angular / radial / velocity in overview. The font spacing is messed up. I'm looking at my overview in 100% atm and an angular of 0.097 has the seven actually touching the nine. At 100% default UI scaling the font is larger than the old one. Who would have thought that increasing the size of a font would make it more readable. To see the same amount of information in windows now takes up more screen real estate at 100%. If I lower it to 90% the overview text is perfect. Context font size can be adjusted no probs. Headers are now too small, item counts are too small, ammo count on modules is now too small. All icons on overview and in space are now too faint. Just a few valid arguments off the top of my head.
Oh come on now, those aren't at all valid concerns and you're not allowed to voice them /sarcasm
I think there difference of opinion comes from some people actually PVPing and wanting to extract as much info from overview etc without it taking up half their screen (and thus not being happy with the current font), and other people who... do whatever the **** they do but it's not PVP.
Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
If MMORPG players were around when God said, "Let there be light" they'd have called the light gay and plunged the universe back into darkness by squatting their nutsacks over it. |
Crosi Wesdo
Spiritus Draconis
55
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 03:04:00 -
[224] - Quote
Psychophantic wrote:Vera Godspiel wrote: To the opposers of this new font; I've yet to hear an actual valid argument why it is bad.
It's not a fixed width font. Looks bad in multiple columns like angular / radial / velocity in overview. The font spacing is messed up. I'm looking at my overview in 100% atm and an angular of 0.097 has the seven actually touching the nine. At 100% default UI scaling the font is larger than the old one. Who would have thought that increasing the size of a font would make it more readable. To see the same amount of information in windows now takes up more screen real estate at 100%. If I lower it to 90% the overview text is perfect. Context font size can be adjusted no probs. Headers are now too small, item counts are too small, ammo count on modules is now too small. All icons on overview and in space are now too faint. Just a few valid arguments off the top of my head.
Perfectly put, im sure tippia will still come and tell you how wrong you are. Thats what hes paid for! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1766
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 03:09:00 -
[225] - Quote
Amber Green Thorn wrote:Quote:GǪand that was why the old font was such a bad choice for the various uses it was assigned to. What the font needs to do is be clear, at a large number of different sizes and resolutions. The new one is; the old one was not. So wrong - using multiple similarly sized fonts together in any form of media, whether in print or on a computer screen is a fundamental mistake. Adding bold and normal to the mix makes it worse. I once studied typography and that was one of 'the rules'. Go look at some crap websites and you'll soon get the drift. I don't think you quite understood what I wrote, because it had nothing to do with what you wrote.
What I was saying that the old font didn't improve with size, and that it definitely got worse as sizes decreased. You seem to argue that you shouldn't mix fonts or sizes, which is something completely different.
Crosi Wesdo wrote:The fact is that the overall appearance of the font, to get it looking reasonable, as in, scaling the ui to cut the font down to size, results in the distortion of very important markers in the game. So a) the problem isn't with the font, but with the UI scaling, and b) your opinion is that the font needs to be combined with 90% scaling to work.
Quote:I realise that you never undock Ah, so now you're using ad hominems instead. Have you tried making an argument without resorting to fallacies?
GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1766
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 03:10:00 -
[226] - Quote
Psychophantic wrote:It's not a fixed width font. Looks bad in multiple columns like angular / radial / velocity in overview. Neither was the old one. Moreover, not being fixed with is a good thing GÇö it means text actually flows properly.
Quote:At 100% default UI scaling the font is larger than the old one. Who would have thought that increasing the size of a font would make it more readable. WeeellGǪ actually, increasing the size will quite often make something less readable (unless we're talking about increasing it so it is no longer legal-style small-print).
Quote:If I lower it to 90% the overview text is perfect. How does it look if you set the overview to GÇ£small textGÇ¥? GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Psychophantic
157
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 03:11:00 -
[227] - Quote
Tippia wrote:]WeeellGǪ actually, increasing the size will quite often make something less readable (unless we're talking about increasing it so it is no longer legal-style small-print).
Tippia. Grass is green.
Here we go.....
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Vachir Khan
TriSeq Defence Group
71
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Posted - 2011.11.30 03:14:00 -
[228] - Quote
The EVE forum just had a few good posters, this thread proves that one of them didn't actually belong on that list and is thus removed from it.
Actual good posters left: Malcanis, akita T and possibly 1 or 2 others. Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
If MMORPG players were around when God said, "Let there be light" they'd have called the light gay and plunged the universe back into darkness by squatting their nutsacks over it. |
Whiff
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
7
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Posted - 2011.11.30 03:15:00 -
[229] - Quote
Somebody posted this earlier - in case it gets lost.
http://i.imgur.com/M8T1N.jpg
The above illustrates the problem perfectly; basically it's mess - I went JTFC when loading up Crucible -------
I have a 22 inch monitor -1680 res pretty standard combo thang - On default it looked like a tramps pants so cunningly I clocked down to 90% thinking this'll do it -but no. I am for one NOT going to be happy with the way the scaling stands atm. Brought down the whole Crucible experience for me. For players with widescreen TV's and vibrating drinks holders I'm sure it's great (ps you guys have zero taste)
The font is pish -no getting round that - but for the love of god get the scaling right CCP. Nice work on the rest though |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1766
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Posted - 2011.11.30 03:19:00 -
[230] - Quote
Psychophantic wrote:Tippia. Grass is green. Depends on the grass. What's your point? GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
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Rhaegor Stormborn
BURN EDEN Northern Coalition.
171
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Posted - 2011.11.30 03:22:00 -
[231] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Psychophantic wrote:Tippia. Grass is green. Depends on the grass. What's your point?
You are a terrible poster, and I know a lot about terrible posting. The new font is terrible.
CCP Punkturis is the worst Dev.-á Fix the font or you will be the 21st percent. |
Crosi Wesdo
Spiritus Draconis
55
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Posted - 2011.11.30 03:25:00 -
[232] - Quote
I dont know, tippia is always a compulsive contrarian, dont know how posting 1000 times a day made him a good poster lol.
Tippia, saying you never un-dock is no ad hominem, if anything its a quick way of expressing that our divergent game-styles may have lead us to our different views on the font.
For what i do, as in pvp, the old font was perfectly functional. For what i do, the new font eats up space, OR if i fix that becomes unreadable in places / distorts important game information.
For example. How am i to warp to a wreck in a battle when i can barely see the wreck? Your answer is to use 100% scaling, but at that i lose a lot of space for important information. These are compromises that i did not have to make with the old font, thus, this new font is generally less suitable for pvp.
Some less anal people who never take any time to optimise their UI might not notice a great deal of difference but i can see from the forum that there are many that do. |
Mutie DaPig
University of Caille Gallente Federation
15
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Posted - 2011.11.30 03:29:00 -
[233] - Quote
Zanthosistine wrote:Comments about how this looks "on your machine" would be a LOT more useful if you would care to take a moment to mention what hardware and graphics settings you are using.
Man has a point................
Perhaps post up these specs before you make yer point:
A: Actual size of your screen or monitor or television. B: Ingame Eve screen resolution selected. C: 90 or 100% or whatever scaling you're using.
It would at least let us get a picture of what combo's are going wrong or right. |
Crosi Wesdo
Spiritus Draconis
55
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 03:36:00 -
[234] - Quote
I use 24 inch 1080p screen. Until they fix or change the font i will be using 90% scaling and compromising on the quality and visibility of the icons on the overview and in space.
Using 100% scaling and small text on overview, as well as being aesthetically jarring, leaves me with too little space for other important windows to fit comfortably, like intel channels, local, scanner etc.
Overall, would go back to old font in a second. No advantage in any configuration of the new font for me. Only drawbacks.
And 0's look like 8's at 90% scaling in a lot of places too.... lol |
Woo Doggy
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2011.11.30 03:37:00 -
[235] - Quote
Psychophantic wrote:Vera Godspiel wrote: To the opposers of this new font; I've yet to hear an actual valid argument why it is bad.
It's not a fixed width font. Looks bad in multiple columns like angular / radial / velocity in overview. The font spacing is messed up. I'm looking at my overview in 100% atm and an angular of 0.097 has the seven actually touching the nine. At 100% default UI scaling the font is larger than the old one. Who would have thought that increasing the size of a font would make it more readable. To see the same amount of information in windows now takes up more screen real estate at 100%. If I lower it to 90% the overview text is perfect. Context font size can be adjusted no probs. Headers are now too small, item counts are too small, ammo count on modules is now too small. All icons on overview and in space are now too faint. Just a few valid arguments off the top of my head.
Exactly. The issue isn't the font. It's the UI scaling that is messed up. |
Psychophantic
157
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 03:47:00 -
[236] - Quote
CCP Navigator wrote:current font rendering system.
Think I've found the problem.
Instead UI scaling is developed which wasn't needed before this font.
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Bubanni
SniggWaffe
31
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Posted - 2011.11.30 03:52:00 -
[237] - Quote
Miss President wrote:After my first post, I have to say that the new font makes me not want to play eve. It's such a turn away.
It make me dizzy, because it's hard to read and requires constant refocusing. What took a fraction of second to read before now takes a full second to just start reading. Reading is completely counter intuitive. Now takes into mind that each area of interface is at different font size, different scale and different spacing - making it seem like you're reading 10 different fonts - all of which suck.
Our mind can briefly glance at something with normal fonts and get the message, with new font I don't find it possible.
This is exactly what I was talking about, it gives me headaches :( |
J Random
Teshnology Inc. Stealth Wear Inc.
5
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Posted - 2011.11.30 03:53:00 -
[238] - Quote
Nothing constructive to add other than the new font is horrible. I'm not quite sure what it is but the pixelation / aliasing seems off. First I was forced to turn anti-aliasing on (was off and the font was unreadable) but even on high something just isn't working.
I don't think it's the choice of font that is the problem, I think it's a rendering issue.
PS: What I really want is monotype. I like fixed width fonts for displaying tactical information
Edit: Def an issue also with rendering some of the old graphics. For example if I open up a L4 agent and have a mish v. let's say Amarr (at 90% UI) I can't even make out the empire / faction graphics (and I'm on a 1920x1080 23" screen) |
Jade Mitch
The Scope Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 04:02:00 -
[239] - Quote
CCP, how in the world could your font rendering system lack a variety of suitable fonts? If it has anything to do with patents and/or copyrights getting in your way, then you need to help inform the public about how intellectual property rights do more to stifle progress in the arts and sciences and depress economic productivity than to promote it. The worse thing you can do is remain a silent beneficiary and co-conspirator of this global injustice. |
Veriasse Valence
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
9
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 04:05:00 -
[240] - Quote
The longer I spend with this new... font..... the more I hate it. The numbers in my wallet look completely out of whack, its no longer possible to quickly scan it. The spacings are uneven, the commas miniscule, and the numbers seem to float almost each by itself. Just terrible.
I never had trouble with previous font, and now not only do I feel like I entered some weird EVE-version of a lame powerpoint but I no longer have the comfort of my nice clean wallet, its looks muddled at best. |
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