An interesting read which succeeded in changing my opinion of high sec miners.

Though this entire thread is going to be just people commenting on the sheer number of words, as if they've never read a book before in their life.

I suppose you believe the people who tell you the grass is purple, even though you see that it is clearly green?

At least I have the capacity to accept that things may not be as they seem. Just because you see green grass doesn't mean it's truly green, or that it's even really there. But this is a philosophical discussion for another time.

I love Mittens, no homo

I love Mittens, no homo

Spare me the new-age philosophical crap. It's a way for relativists to justify their actions when they can't find a reason in the real world. After all, the world is really an illusion, right?

Seriously I'm pretty sure I read something that would resemble the executive summary of this very large post somewhere on one of the many suicide ganking/propaganda/ice interdiction threads of the last few months. It was really unnecessary.

die to a hail of blaster fire

Your posts are temporary. Their legacy endures.

EVE By Night.

Spare me the new-age philosophical crap. It's a way for relativists to justify their actions when they can't find a reason in the real world. After all, the world is really an illusion, right?

Naturally, all of the highsec miners' explanations are designed to make them feel better about themselves

Stopped reading your trash there. Not that I was doing anything but skimming prior to that.

Godwin's Law kicking in in 3...2...

Ad hominem, ad hominem, begging the question, guilt by association, more ad hominem, everything that's wrong in Eve is hisec miner's fault.

Godwin's Law kicking in in 3...2...

Dumbass...
It kicked in on page 2.

Actually there's no mention of ****** or ***** on page 2.

You are wrong. On the Internet.

But seriously, cool story bro but WOW!!! dude this is a game and you wrote a manifesto that rivals Mein Kampf. Did you miss the daily dosage of whatever you're on?

dribble
noun
Definition of DRIBBLE
1: a tiny or insignificant bit or quantity
2: a small trickling stream or flow
3: an act, instance, or manner of dribbling a ball or puck

Can anyone give me one good reason why I should not kill the highsec miners?

1) I am amazed and shocked because of the amount of people who are unable to read 7k words, as they themselves claim. Are there so many people who cannot do that? Humanity is doomed, I tell you

1)

3) There seriously needs to be a complete mining redesign. It needs to be more interactive and it should involve some skill and/or knowledge in order to get the most isk out of it. That way people would actually play the game while mining and not just wait until the cycle completes. If CCP would do that, they can consider revamping missions as well (like adding Sleeper AI at least)

Short version (Babyseal edition):
- Miners don't shoot back, they are in fact rarely armed.
- They provide a killmail.
- Null monkeys, who are the most frequent gankers, are bored out of their minds in their home with bright blue walls on all sides.

Don't try to make more of it than it is. Give a child a magnifying glass and mention you saw an anthill nearby .. human behaviour is not rocket science.

Thanks. I mine and gank - does that make me a half-bot, or just confused?

An interesting read which succeeded in inverting my opinion of highsec miners and the gankers who target them.

Though this entire thread is going to be just people commenting on the sheer number of words, as if they've never read a book before in their life.

Look mate,

If your mug was so prominently displayed to the left of every bile filled paragraph, I would have assumed this was written by space H I T L E R himself.

This way of thinking only discourages NEW BLOOD from staying in Eve for the duration. Like myself, a new player understands that there are limitations to what can be accomplished in anything other than highsec.... limitations that are only lifted when SP reaches something above 5 million.

Get a life, you and the mittani, a target something that fights back.

cheers.

-ski

Plato isn't really "new age". He's about as "old age" as it gets.

Pity he doesn't have the guts to post with his main, so we could all see exactly who this tard is.

Funny that I remember Plato specifically argued against that kind of relativism and the sophists who used it. Just saying.

l..if no miners what would the pvpers use their isk on??? cause there would be no ships unless you count the faction ones etc.

-1 for brazen, unashamed fellatio of Mittani and Karrttoon...really mate, we don't need to know, OK? Please keep it discreet

I just shoot miners because it amuses me.

Isn't it true that many, if not most, PvPers support their ship losses with macro miners?

EvE is a PvP game, and you can make billions in nullsec without really using much effort if you know how

EvE is a PvP game

I love you.

Relativism is a plague that should have been eradicated at its source.

Even in physics?

That post was seriously crazy man I got to admit I didn't read it all but god damn.

Yeah high sec miners are pretty lame, why they even play the game at all is beyond me. I have always thought profitable rocks should only be out in low sec and null sec to create more PvP/industry hybrid corps, but sadly I guess CCP does not share my thoughts. High sec miners simply do not get the entire experience of eve or even seem to care, I think they just get off on the fact that they can make more cash in a video than in real life and it gives them a self esteem boost lol.

Also, this is further evidence to me that both are needed, suicide ganker and miner alike. We get too much of either camp and everything breaks down. I don't root for either of you, rather I root for both, simultaneously.

Is there a tl;dr?

Why do people play Zombie Farm or Sim City? Some people like a mundane, monotonous activity like munching rocks. Their enjoyment comes from maximizing yields by manipulating fittings, ships and tactics.

It aint for me but I don't begrudge those that dig it.

Also, this is further evidence to me that both are needed, suicide ganker and miner alike. We get too much of either camp and everything breaks down. I don't root for either of you, rather I root for both, simultaneously.

Macro mining? Are you kidding? If we wanted to waste our time picking up the pennies like you guys do in highsec maybe. We have much more profitable opportunities.

I think I've gathered a total of like 1000 veldspar for a mission once...and I think I've ran probably close to like 6 missions ever....

EvE is a PvP game, and you can make billions in nullsec without really using much effort if you know how

OP, I already know you will ignore the naysayers of your craft in this thread (and in local), as you should. Your manifesto was a fantastic read and you've converted me from someone who just condoned highsec miner ganking into a fervent supporter of the practice.

If you too want to bring excitement back into this great game then take arms, rid the once pristine hisec ice belts of these heartless carebear desecrators and restore them to their former glory!

OP, I already know you will ignore the naysayers of your craft in this thread (and in local), as you should. Your manifesto was a fantastic read and you've converted me from someone who just condoned highsec miner ganking into a fervent supporter of the practice.

If you too want to bring excitement back into this great game then take arms, rid the once pristine hisec ice belts of these heartless carebear desecrators and restore them to their former glory!

Why do people play Zombie Farm or Sim City? Some people like a mundane, monotonous activity like munching rocks. Their enjoyment comes from maximizing yields by manipulating fittings, ships and tactics.

It aint for me but I don't begrudge those that dig it.

Also, this is further evidence to me that both are needed, suicide ganker and miner alike. We get too much of either camp and everything breaks down. I don't root for either of you, rather I root for both, simultaneously.

If you too want to bring excitement back into this great game then take arms, rid the once pristine hisec ice belts of these heartless carebear desecrators and restore them to their former glory!

Personally? Play the game however you want, if you find yourself having to justify it to other people then you're doing it wrong. Why give a flying crap about what other people think, so long as you're not breaking the game rules then your account is yours to do what you want with it.

I agree. Only one problem, though. Anyone who actually spent 5 hours reading the EULA will know that it outright forbids griefing. Paraphrased (because I don't remember the exact wording), it says: "Any player is allowed to conduct any kind of activities within the game, so long as the activities do not deprive another player of enjoyment of the game." Since griefing is all about this, it should technically be forbidden. But then again, I don't mind if bot-miners are getting ganked. It's their own fault for not being careful, and it does eliminate a bunch of competitors.

So basically my response is thus.
10/10 for grammer and fluid language that make for a good read.
5/10 on logic
10/10 BJ skills for the Goonies, JUST because you were in goonswarm for a while and treat Kaartoom or wtf his name is and Mittens like God, Jesus Christ, Chuck Norris, Buddha, Ghandhi and Nelson Mandela all rolled into one doesn't mean you have any affiliation with Goonswarm. Right?

See You Starside
~Simyaldee

This is all that needs to be said,

Quote Malcanis
"You consent to PvP when you undock your ships, whether you accept this or not. There is no entitlement to safety."

Who cares?

Evidently, everyone who answered truthfully or commented sincerely on this glorious thread. That includes you

You're an idiot. Finished the whole first post, wasn't worth my time to continue on.

I have but one rebuttal point, imagine if tomorrow CCP came and said "We're going to make hisec totally safe, from now on weapons can only be activated on rats and WT's." There would be absolute OUTCRY!! VERY few people would support this course of action.
This is because of ONE simple reason, this would restrict the way people play THEIR game, that THEY PAY for, either with hard earned isk or with RL money.

Quite honestly, the OP would have made Goebbels proud.

TL;DR

People say gankers are horrible people with no life. In response, I call all hisec miners bots, or if they aren't bots, they want to be anyway. Also, they are intrinsically evil. They are heartless, cold beings with one goal in mind - to make ISK the easiest way possible.

In order to rid the earth of this scourge, all hisec miners, bot or not, should be scoured from the belts.

I will now tell you pointless stories about my personal ganking achievements.

CALL TO ARMS!! RID THE WORLD OF THESE MACHINE MEN!!!!

10/10 great effort. Very high quality troll and I actually enjoyed the read. Bravo my brother. Bravo.

Read everything. Brilliant, well written, and a really enjoyable read.

However.

Though I do support suicide ganking as it adds spice and flavour to the game, and is true to the essence of Eve (as you say) I find your absolute loathing of miners distasteful, and harrowing. I am more likely to side with miners when faced with you. You make many assumptions and generalizations and appear - though articulate - very misguided.

I am surprised your hatred is not directed towards mission runners, honestly. To me they seem more to fit the bill of lifeless money-making bots who are completely detached from the spirit of eve, than miners do.

What about the hi-sec miner that's AFK mining to pay for a suicide ganking habit?

10 pages of argument just dusted with one question. HAH!

Is there a tl;dr?

stuff

Is there a tl;dr?

Hi-Sec Mining is an incredibly boring way to spend a gaming session. Years ago I'm sure it was pretty awesome to do stuff that felt like good, honest labor. Those days are gone. Nobody will mistake mining for "work." It's tedious farming created to allow idle chit-chat while keeping busy, and the worst of shoddy game design.

Mine in WH's

Sell in Jita

/arm to gankers

Profit

Laugh

EvE is a PvP game, and you can make billions in nullsec without really using much effort if you know how

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqc2gj_G2zY

I am going to leave this here :p the reason I/We kill high sec miners has nothing to do with profit, it's because of the fun we have as a community doing it.

A killmail showing a 200-300 mil kill doesn't hurt either, it's the lol factor. braging factor of isk destroyed... we all have our own reasons :p but I don't think i'm a bad person in real life because of it.

This thread is a masterpiece, i appreciate the time it took to write it.

And you are a pinhead.

I regret the waste of life force wasted on your creation.

The best thing to ever happen to EVE would be to remove industry entirely. CCP could slap bounties on the drones then, seed the market with everything you'd need, go F2P and open up the cash shop. EVE wouldn't die, maybe all the whiner's would finally leave and they'd make a killing.

Actually the best thing would be removal of isk bounties/mission isk payouts. Make ratting as much about harvesting resources for a player driven economy as every other profession. Missions would be about getting loyalty points to spend on items plus whatever was dragged in and incursions would actually be run like the loot-dropping boss encounters they were meant to be instead of rat-chaining in highsec.

No more isk faucets to inflate the economy, isk truly becomes a currency and the capitalism game is actually capitalism because people compete and fight over control of resoures and not the biggest money-trees.

Reading a thread like this makes me want to quit Eve.

The reason it does so is because of the intense idiocy and inanity in most of the replies. If this many stupid people play this game, and I play this game, then I am playing a game with a lot of stupendously stupid people, and that isn't attractive to me.

Sometimes these forums are a real turnoff to the game itself :( It is literally and completely impossible for me to fathom some of the raw stupidity I read on Eve Online forums. I wish I was joking.

For all the different alliances and coalitions in Eve, and for all the multitudes of different names on the Eve map, there were only ever two choices for Eve. There was BoB, and there was Goon. That was it. For the most part, the people of Eve leaned toward BoB. They wanted order and peace. They wanted to be ruled by the elite. They wanted to be renters, pets, and slaves. So they served BoB, feared BoB, aspired to become members of BoB, and believed in BoB's ultimate victory no matter what. Like the highsec miners of today, they didn't want to challenge anything. Eve shuffled down the path toward BoB rule.

I had a different idea. At the critical moment I gently persuaded Eve onto a different course. The Goons won. BoB is dead. And so the animating force in the Eve community is the Goon. Their culture is at the core of the post-BoB Eve. The Goon influence is under the surface of everything. As I said, even the highsec miners unthinkingly parrot the Goon memes.

That was the decision I made, based upon the vision I had for Eve. I still believe it was the right one. Regardless, it's the one that everyone else will have to live with.

The highsec miners hate the Goons, and they barely recognize the name of BoB. But they do seem to understand that whatever BoB was, it was a bad thing. That makes me smile.

I laughed, too self righteous and populist. Another attention troll working hard, seems to work though.:)

I don't care for the gankers nor for the miners. If the miners are all gone, and hopefully no more minerals drops from drones, then I wonder how much a Rifter would be?

This sandbox can be broken.

If you compare Eve to human evolution I guess we are still in the medieval times not working with swords but laser cannons. It would be very interesting how Eve would evolve if there wasn't any hisec and no local. There are no consequences in this game.

that hurts, man

you shouldn't throw around burns like that willy-nilly

Nothing the Goons have ever done has changed anything I've done in terms of how I play the game, where I go and what I do.

Yeah, about that player driven economy thing, turns out noone cares. Well, maybe a few economists that bring their work home do but that's about it. People like making things go boom and detest players that go against the grain. I like my way better, it gets rid of the crap and ships go boom. It's a win/win for everyone, except for industry players but who cares?

They do deserve the disgust that people feel for them.

Why do highsec miners deserve to be attacked, even at the guaranteed loss of the attacker's ship?

They're guilty.

The gankers are human. The miners are bots. The miners are quite literally less than human. They deserve to be wiped out, every last one of them. To the extent that they still feel anything, it should only be fear, humiliation, and misery.

I think we can all agree that highsec miners are despicable in both their actions and in their intrinsic nature. A highsec miner is fundamentally going to inspire disgust. What they think, the way they feel about things, their attitudes, beliefs, all of it.

Everyone knows that a highsec miner is motivated by greed. And not just a desire to gain, which could equally be attributed to the conquerors of nullsec, but a particular kind of senseless, materialistic greed.

Does he feel anything? No.

Like the bot he wishes to become, he is empty.

They don't believe in anything or anyone.

These miners scatter like sheep and leave their friends to die. Always.

They have produced nothing of value whatsoever.

Their legacy is a series of nerfs to highsec warfare. They whine and whine.

Suicide gankers thus represent the creative force in Eve. The highsec miners are unable to produce any creative thought.

It's almost as if the highsec miners want to be hated by everyone in Eve. If that's their goal, they're doing a great job.

Highsec miners are a superstitious and cowardly lot.

Can anyone give me one good reason why I should not kill the highsec miners?

Pretty much everyone agrees with me.

Actually, not only would it not be bad for Eve if we lost 100,000 highsec miners, it would be great for Eve. Subscriptions would go up through the roof if that happened.

So far we've covered most of the reasons why, from a purely rational standpoint, suicide ganking the miners is acceptable, desirable, perhaps even imperative.

Am I not merciful?

As I watched the exhumer's defenses peel away and the ship explode, I was struck by a profound sense of peace. Like I was doing something right. Like I was making the world a better place somehow, helping people.

You totally care about having a player driven economy, you just don't always realize that that is what you're encountering. It's a way to automatically balance professions. If something is hard, less people do it, so the profitability of the products it creates goes up until it finds equilibrium. If something is easy, more people do it, the profitability dies. It's self regulating.

On the other hand, when CCP just sets a fixed profit level for something, it inevitably gets out of balance. It turns out to be easier than they thought it would be and it becomes imbalanced by being too rewarding- like incursions for example, and since it has a fixed payout, nothing brings it back into balance with the other professions. Or it turns out to be harder than CCP thought it would be and then nobody does it anymore because it isn't rewarding enough to justify the difficulty/time/risk. When the reward goes through the player driven market those problems automatically get smoothed out.

Also, I think you're falling prey to the standard "my way of playing the game is the best" assumption... Different people like playing the game different ways. There are tons of interesting things you can do in eve that don't involve pvp. Maybe you don't like them as much as some other guy does, maybe you haven't learned enough about those professions to get why they're fun. You aren't the only person in the universe. Your preferences are not universal. As long as you enjoy the way you're playing it, that's great, but that doesn't mean the next guy won't have more fun playing it a different way. Don't just assume that the only options are pirate or miner. There are like 1,000 different professions in the game. Some of them only a handful of people have ever mastered.

Industry players are like those victims of the sansha incursions that the correspondents write about, meaningless. If it makes you feel better, we could all RP and write articles about how colonist what's-his-name mined 100 million trit today and how it helped fuel the engines of war. Industry is better suited to fluff and RP'ing. As for the player driven economy, it's so interesting and meaningful that it's full of bots too!