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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17148
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:01:48 -
[451] - Quote
I've already gone over why this is a bad idea multiple times.
If this is the way we're going, then so be it, I guess.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Divine Entervention
Rational Chaos Inc. Phoebe Freeport Republic
686
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:02:01 -
[452] - Quote
Also here's another thing this will help address:
When you're joining the game you can only fly the very bottom ships. Frigates. Now your character immediately begins training, and you ask people for advice, "what do I do?" They respond back with something like, pick a ship y ou want to fly and train for it! Go download EvE mon and plot your skill training queue so you can hop into that Widow you say you want to fly in!.
OK kind sir, thank you very much for pointing me in the right direction. I will tailor my skill queue so I may get into that widow!.
6 months goes by and now I can get into this widow.
But you know what? This ship sucks. I don't want to be in the widow. I can't believe I just spent all this time training to get into a widow and now that I'm here, it's not even enjoyable for me.
This will alleviate that dilemma. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17148
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:02:50 -
[453] - Quote
Skilo wrote:I've been playing this game since 2003
Hey i can stop playing for 1 year and if i decide to return get the euros i saved and buy all the skill points i've "lost"
I wish I could warn you not to give them ideas like that.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2032
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:02:56 -
[454] - Quote
May Arethusa wrote:While an interesting attempt at a compromise, it's still a terrible idea.
Skillpoint farming is quite literally, the most risk-free form of isk generation you could suggest, and wouldn't be that difficult. As has been pointed out already, you're looking at an 8-day cycle per character. There is absolutely no way anyone can interfere with this process either, perhaps if skill loss were still a thing this might gain a little more traction.
That's ignoring the obvious "X is nerfed, liquidate and remap to Y" process most low-SP PVP characters will go through. There's no longer any desire to push a character beyond a specific point under this system. You simply liquidate superfluous SP for profit, remap each time your FotM is nerfed, and spend a day or two at most training back the lost SP.
Nice try, but no thanks. You can already do this. I've been doing this for years by selling in-demand characters on the Character Bazaar, trained specifically for the purpose of sale. Bastard farms are not particularly new.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Alladir
Alladarium
4
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:03:36 -
[455] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:So, if CCP instigates this, will Character Trading be removed? This is supposed to be the replacement for the Character Bazaar right? So why would we need Character Trading anymore? Otherwise, this will lead to a great new form of Character trading where we can easily build specced toons for a specific function, and then sell them. Depending on the final costs, which will probably be rather high, I think we can look at toons selling for a bit more.
Someone on reddit ran approx math that buying char is twice as cheap when it comes to isk/sp cost compared to new system so no, they will not replace market. |
Divine Entervention
Rational Chaos Inc. Phoebe Freeport Republic
686
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:03:51 -
[456] - Quote
Skilo wrote:I've been playing this game since 2003
I'm a proud "owner" of a multi million skill point char who took me 12 years to get
To imagine someone can now just join eve and buy it of with real money will make me unsub all my accounts
I've been with CCP for the good times and the bad times but for this i will not!!!!
Hey i can stop playing for 1 year and if i decide to return get the euros i saved and buy all the skill points i've "lost"
IF i decide to return ofc
Want to take the risk CCP?
I'm sure i'm not the only one thinking the same way
Why will it make you want to unsub?
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2032
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:03:55 -
[457] - Quote
Captain Africa wrote:TheSmokingHertog wrote:Skinzee wrote:Skinzee wrote:I have a question for ALL people that say this is a bad idea...
--- WHAT EFFECT WOULD IT HAVE ON YOU AS A PILOT IF THIS WOULD ACTUALLY GO LIVE? ---
There is already an option to buy 0-200m SP characters... Character Bazaar - (Thats Pay2Win if you look at it that way)
Would love someone to actually give me a valid answer to this question. As far as I can see, there is none. I do... Bitter vets would have more people around them that could fly high end doctrines like they do. Just by roaming off their own SP. Lemme throw this right back at you ...I had to wait 6 years to get my character trained up to be 145 mil sp do you think it fair that you would be able to achieve that by just buying sp and whalla ? Given that the achievement's barrier to entry is merely time and the payment of a monthly subscription, yes, I think it's totally fair. Your accomplishment is fairly meaningless; anyone can do it if they just wait.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Anise Tig'res
Duchy Ministry of Slave Affairs
37
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:03:55 -
[458] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Also here's another thing this will help address:
When you're joining the game you can only fly the very bottom ships. Frigates. Now your character immediately begins training, and you ask people for advice, "what do I do?" They respond back with something like, pick a ship y ou want to fly and train for it! Go download EvE mon and plot your skill training queue so you can hop into that Widow you say you want to fly in!.
OK kind sir, thank you very much for pointing me in the right direction. I will tailor my skill queue so I may get into that widow!.
6 months goes by and now I can get into this widow.
But you know what? This ship sucks. I don't want to be in the widow. I can't believe I just spent all this time training to get into a widow and now that I'm here, it's not even enjoyable for me.
This will alleviate that dilemma.
And it'll do so for what probably ends up a similar price to a subscription.
Good job CCP! |
Zajia Arkaral
Shadows of Earth inPanic
0
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:04:17 -
[459] - Quote
I dont want to see this ingame, stop fuckin your old community. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2032
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:04:42 -
[460] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:So, if CCP instigates this, will Character Trading be removed? This is supposed to be the replacement for the Character Bazaar right? So why would we need Character Trading anymore? Otherwise, this will lead to a great new form of Character trading where we can easily build specced toons for a specific function, and then sell them. Depending on the final costs, which will probably be rather high, I think we can look at toons selling for a bit more. The dev blog says, at the bottom, that the Character Bazaar will remain.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Kilian Katar
Tenth Company
1
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:05:17 -
[461] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Also here's another thing this will help address:
When you're joining the game you can only fly the very bottom ships. Frigates. Now your character immediately begins training, and you ask people for advice, "what do I do?" They respond back with something like, pick a ship y ou want to fly and train for it! Go download EvE mon and plot your skill training queue so you can hop into that Widow you say you want to fly in!.
OK kind sir, thank you very much for pointing me in the right direction. I will tailor my skill queue so I may get into that widow!.
6 months goes by and now I can get into this widow.
But you know what? This ship sucks. I don't want to be in the widow. I can't believe I just spent all this time training to get into a widow and now that I'm here, it's not even enjoyable for me.
This will alleviate that dilemma.
No it will change the dilemma, instead it will be omg this ship sucks I can't believe I paid $$$$$$$$$ to get this thing fk this game *quits* |
Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
1297
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:05:18 -
[462] - Quote
Massive no.
What's the point of the skill system at all once this is in? Might as well drop a bomb on the whole thing and let us fly whatever. And this scheme wont benefit a single newbie as the price of these boosters will be skyrocketed by people who can afford to pay any price. |
Nataliya Barre
Immortal Nomads Indecent Exposure Alliance
57
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:05:19 -
[463] - Quote
Boot.ini problem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msXRFJ2ar_E
Could you do the same again? PLEASE! |
Skinzee
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
11
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:06:18 -
[464] - Quote
Captain Africa wrote:TheSmokingHertog wrote:Skinzee wrote:Skinzee wrote:I have a question for ALL people that say this is a bad idea...
--- WHAT EFFECT WOULD IT HAVE ON YOU AS A PILOT IF THIS WOULD ACTUALLY GO LIVE? ---
There is already an option to buy 0-200m SP characters... Character Bazaar - (Thats Pay2Win if you look at it that way)
Would love someone to actually give me a valid answer to this question. As far as I can see, there is none. I do... Bitter vets would have more people around them that could fly high end doctrines like they do. Just by roaming off their own SP. Lemme throw this right back at you ...I had to wait 6 years to get my character trained up to be 145 mil sp do you think it fair that you would be able to achieve that by just buying sp and whalla ?
Honest answer? Yes. Why not?
Because your mad that this option wasn't available when you first started?
What difference would it make to you if I spent -ú100's to boost my character to your level? I can fly the same ship as you? Boo Hoo...
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PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2705
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:07:02 -
[465] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote: It's bad because selling SP for isk, in any arbitrary amount, in any arbitrary package removes hard choices from the game. I like hard choices. I like playing games with hard choices.
Today you can buy a character, true. But that is a character crafted by another, with it's own flaws and skills not made to tailor for each individual. And you pay a market rate for them - some combinations of SP are worth more than others depending on the meta. Creating such characters, choosing to buy characters that are imperfect in one way or another represents hard choices made by either the buyer or the seller, and this is good.
I'm not sure thats a meaningful differentiator though. If I want a link alt, I buy a link alt. If I want a dread alt, I buy a dread alt. If I want a super alt, I buy a super alt. etc. I will get what I pay for, and its irrelevant to that core purchase decision if they also have (or don't have) heavy assault missile or astrometric skills etc? F If I want a skirmish link alt, I buy a link alt. But maybe I found a REALLY good link alt with the perfect name but he's also a perfect shield link alt, a perfect ewar link alt, and a perfect armor link alt. Maybe, I don't want all of that, I just want the skirmish links, but the shield link skills are so much better than the rest of the characters on the market that I'm willing to front the bill for all of the extra sp because I only like part of the character and the character name.
Maybe I found a perfect leviathan character, but his name is xX420DogPorkerXXNoScope360Xx and I'm a pretentious prick that can't stand to own such a character.
Maybe I found a perfect Avatar alt, but he's associated with a known scammer and his corp history is shady as hell.
Maybe I want an Aeon alt but can't afford it. So I buy a decent thanatos/aeon pilot that I grow into the character that I want, with a bit of unused thanatos sp on the side.
The point is this - from the moment we name a character, whether it is a main or an alt to be sold, we make choices that irrevocably affect said character and our own game play experience. This proposed system removes the significance of those choices, assuming you apply enough isk. I don't like this. I like hard choices, the harder the better. That's what makes EvE, EvE. |
Nergart
Nocturnal Romance Cynosural Field Theory.
9
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:07:17 -
[466] - Quote
....so how long before eve is free to play?
i only ask so i can stop paying CCP any money?
as i see it this will likely be the intro to micro transactions.
pay this to improve your character, 1 step away from premium ammunition pay this to do more damage.
you know what just do it
us vets are really not bothered anymore, since the eve community has always been described as a passionate one people who are so disillusioned with the way eve is going that they just don't care and are here hoping things will change for the better hopes which seem to be growing dimmer by the day.
As for the CSM i feel this should be disbanded as no longer required/fit for purpose. As demonstrated with previous changes, the CSM council seems to be either a bunch of yes men not willing to stand up for the players they are attempting to represent or worse attempting to change the game in accordance to their own wishes.
the opinion of the CSM reflected here is either people who are jumping on the bandwagon like politicians running to the press saying "oh i was the sole voice of opposition to this" or they are clearly just being ignored and therefore not required.
played eve since 2009, i think its time to move on.
Eve does not have a learning curve, its a learning cliff. Either learn to fly on the way down or its going to be a hard landing
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EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1165
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:07:24 -
[467] - Quote
Skilo wrote:I've been playing this game since 2003
I'm a proud "owner" of a multi million skill point char who took me 12 years to get
To imagine someone can now just join eve and buy it of with real money will make me unsub all my accounts\ they already could numbnuts your sp count doesn't make you elite |
Moraguth
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
139
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:07:56 -
[468] - Quote
Viliana Ovaert wrote:I like this idea. Especially where I am, at slightly over 20m SP. Unless I am misunderstanding, I can pick up one of these packets and gain 400k SP, which is what, a week of training? Corp comes out with new doctrine, but I would have to use meta weapons like a scrub? No prob, I could just pick up a packet or two and I can use the T2! Anything that increases versatility is a good thing.
This is another reason why the change is a bad idea. Switching metas for an entire alliance should be more of a decision than just "how much isk is this gonna cost us?"
One reason older players are more valuable because of their immediate versatility. There should be a risk involved with wanting to change how your alliance (or your corp, or just you and your friends) want to do things. There should be more to consider than just having the isk available to buy everyone the extra SP they need to fly the new meta with max skills in however long it takes you to get to Jita/Amarr and buy the SP to put in your head.
I have a tendency to go on and on and on, so I'll just stop there for now, but there is plenty more to say on the subject.
I got a Feature Added!
Stop calling an Abaddon "abba-dawn". It is "uh-bad-in"
dictionary.com/abaddon
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Samillian
Angry Mustellid Decayed Orbit
1044
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:08:03 -
[469] - Quote
I cannot believe that you have even considered this, you would be better to just turn the servers off and walk away than debase and devalue your game like this.
NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
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Mike Azariah
The Scope Gallente Federation
3083
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:08:08 -
[470] - Quote
For people quitting in protest I remind them that Operation Magic School Bus does accept donations to help out the new players. Yes, this is a 'can I haz' post but it is one where the material will be put to good use, not just lining a wallet or hanger. Contract to me if you wish to donate.
m
Mike Azariah Gö¼GöÇGöÇGö¼n++ ¯|(pâä)/¯
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Nasro Drags
Zonk Squad CCLP
12
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:08:29 -
[471] - Quote
"Eve is real" - my ass
It's things like that just makes it impossible for me to recommend this game. You just make it next to impossible to feel attached to your characters.
Trading a character is bad enough IMO, but it comes with the history, so the player behind the character is different, but the character has had a story, it was sort of real for that character.
Drifters has been an interesting addition now you go the exact opposite way with this.
At times, Eve's development is just like a hydra with 7 heads all pulling in different directions. I still like the vision that seems to underly it all... but damn do those heads work hard at stretching the vision... |
Hashtag Rare Pepe
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:08:51 -
[472] - Quote
Make it happen! A lot of newblood to be expected if this goes through. The sooner the better. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3510
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:08:52 -
[473] - Quote
Malinger wrote:No don't do this, not in any form or way. Stop now.
So we should get rid of the character bazaar then too.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1165
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:08:55 -
[474] - Quote
MY SP ELITENESS
(i have more sp than 90% of the posters in this thread) |
Dave Stark
7546
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:08:55 -
[475] - Quote
Dear CCP.
you have made some monumentally stupid decisions. you have made some absolutely fantastic changes.
then you have done this.
this is pretty "yeah, it's alright" but it certainly isn't wrong. you already have the character bazzar, so people calling this "pay to win" or "it will kill the game" are ignorant at best, and hypocrites at worst.
i'm fine with this announcement, there's no reason not to be. |
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1289
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:09:02 -
[476] - Quote
Holy f*ck... didn't think I'd see this day.
If anything there needs to be a hard cap above which you're not longer able to inject skillpoints, period. Because if you think diminishing returns are going to prevent people from sinking trillions of ISK into skillpoints, you are sadly mistaken.
But overall this is just a bad idea... god this is such a bad idea.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
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Nyjil Lizaru
Aideron Robotics
40
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:09:09 -
[477] - Quote
Suggested changes: -A hard-cap per character: only allow a total of 5-10 million SP (for example) in or out for the character total, ever. -Alternately: a yearly limit of 1-3 million (again, amount is just an idea) -Limit it to within the same account
I like it because I have skills that I trained that were nerfed almost as soon as I trained them - I'd love to nuke them, but not sure about a limitless trading of SP, even with the diminishing returns.
Nyjil's corollary to Malcanis' Law: -á "Any attempt by CCP to smooth the learning curve of EVE Online will be carried out via the addition of extra factors and 'features' such that there is a net increase in complexity."
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Skinzee
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
11
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:09:11 -
[478] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:For people quitting in protest I remind them that Operation Magic School Bus does accept donations to help out the new players. Yes, this is a 'can I haz' post but it is one where the material will be put to good use, not just lining a wallet or hanger. Contract to me if you wish to donate.
m
Can I Haz Leftovers? Plx? <3 |
Skilo
Higher Than Everest The-Culture
20
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:09:24 -
[479] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Skilo wrote:I've been playing this game since 2003
Hey i can stop playing for 1 year and if i decide to return get the euros i saved and buy all the skill points i've "lost"
I wish I could warn you not to give them ideas like that.
The point is that it goes against everyhting CCP always said about Pay to Win
This is PAY TO WIN
You pay you get skills you get better ships and guns you win
PAY TO WIN |
Alladir
Alladarium
5
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Posted - 2015.10.15 18:09:47 -
[480] - Quote
Zajia Arkaral wrote:I dont want to see this ingame, stop fuckin your old community. If a change will bring 2 new players who will stay in game for long for each veteran leaving they are still gonna make a profit. Thats how things go. That's what Bioware is doing favoring simplier rpg for new casuals sacrificing old players who were with them since begining. That's what Blizzard does too. It may be a bitter truth but it works and thats what matters. Old veterans are good and stuff but they are bleeding playerbase since many of them have to stop playing due to reasons completly unrelated to game or game design process. So why make a game that keeps a vet playerbase that will disappear with enough time when you can change it to attract new playerbase that will stay and compensate the bleeding? Most ppl complain now but let's be honest it'll die out soon and only a fraction of them will really leave. |
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