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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
113
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Posted - 2016.02.12 20:16:53 -
[271] - Quote
a++ püñ Gùò_Gùò a++püñ GIVE TRACKING CAMERA TOGGLE
@dominousnolen
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CCP Turtlepower
C C P C C P Alliance
266
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Posted - 2016.02.12 20:31:54 -
[272] - Quote
Manic Velocity wrote:CCP Turtlepower wrote: the results are populated instantly in the D-scan window. This is so obviously not the case. The very first thing I noticed is the delayed, line-by-line output of the scan results.
Sorry about that, I should have worded that differently. I meant that the list BEGINS to populate instantly. This is quicker than in the old camera because you don't have to wait for the camera to move first before it populates.
CCP Turtlepower |
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Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
358
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Posted - 2016.02.12 20:32:44 -
[273] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Hey guys, one last update from us before the weekend.
First of all, thanks for all the feedback. We canGÇÖt answer everyoneGÇÿs questions and concerns, but rest assured we are actively monitoring the forums.
To the players that feel nauseous when using the camera, please try playing with some of the camera settings in the Esc menu. Try turning of dynamic FOV and speed offset, and try increasing the camera speed. If you still experience nausea or discomfort, please continue to provide further details with the settings you have tried.
Now on to D-Scan. We have been bouncing around some ideas and came up with a new prototype way to D-Scan that I just put up on our Singularity test server where it will remain over the weekend. If you have the time and interest, please try getting on there and trying it out. It works like this: Hold down V and click something to D-scan it. V also opens up the D-scan window if it is not already open, and is a bindable shortcut key. Yes, you still have to hold down a keyboard button to scan quickly, but it only takes 1 click and the results are populated instantly in the D-scan window. This effectively reduces keystrokes and speeds up the whole process, making it faster and easier than ever before! After a scan, the GÇÿScanGÇÖ button grays out until the 2 second cooldown has elapsed, at which point the button blinks a little bit to let you know you can perform a new scan. Please leave any feedback for this prototype feature in this thread.
Hope you all have an awesome spaceship-filled weekend, CCP Turtlebutt // Team Psycho Sisters
First off I'll say this is a poor attempt and don't see it going places. Giving back what already existed is what will work. BUT I'll check it out at a minimum. However, is there a shortcut entry I should be looking for in order to program this new key? Pressing V does absolutely nothing and I can find nothing in my keybinds set to the V key.
Daemun of Khanid
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
27043
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Posted - 2016.02.12 20:36:49 -
[274] - Quote
Manic Velocity wrote:Emphasis mine.
This is so obviously not the case. The very first thing I noticed is the delayed, line-by-line output of the scan results. The results are most certainly not populated instantly. I hate to bring this up because it sounds like nit-picking, but I think most here would agree that the delayed output effect serves absolutely no practical purpose.
D-Scan is an intel tool. We use it specifically because we need information as fast as possible. Yet once again, this is an example of "form over function". We don't need d-scan to be pretty. We need it to be useful. This delay effect needs to go, plain and simple. Yeah, unrelated to the whole camera issue, this speaks to an ongoing theme that has plagued EVE's UI changes for quite some time now.
It's suffering more and more from hollywood:itis. I can fully understand that UI artists like to really go hog wild with the fancy effects, since they look cool and it's not something you get to do all that oftenGǪ but there's a reason for that: they make the UI objectively worse. A functional UI is restrained and therefore inherently incompatible with the flashy fun stuff that is fun to make.
The problem is that the players want something fast, functional, and effective. As much as the devs might want to get away from the perception of Excel in Space, that need is the first one that has to be met and anything that gets in the way of it would have to have a spectacularly good reason to be allowed to stick around. Animations and presentation-style GÇ£appearGÇ¥-effects delay and remove precision from time-critical information. Save them for Powerpoint in Space, if and when you get a reason to create that game, but leave them out of EVE.
Top tip for UI designer reflection and insight: if at any time you create some visual effect that is applied to the UI, first imagine how you would react if that effect was applied to the programs and tools you use to design the effect. Imagine if the select tool in Photoshop had to perform a corner-to-corner wipe and flash-fade in every time you clicked it before you were allowed to actually select anything; and that the selection suffered from input lag GÇö not because you're working on a 32GB file, but because of the mandatory animations that play while you drag that box across the screen. It looks cool, but it only serves to make the tool awful. You should have no trouble imagining the frustration this would generate and the slowly rising wish to punch the programmer in the mouth. Now realise that by creating such a UI effect, you are the one who's generating that frustration and who are thus the target for said mouth-punching fantasies.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
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Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
358
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Posted - 2016.02.12 20:55:29 -
[275] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Manic Velocity wrote:CCP Turtlepower wrote: the results are populated instantly in the D-scan window. This is so obviously not the case. The very first thing I noticed is the delayed, line-by-line output of the scan results. Sorry about that, I should have worded that differently. I meant that the list BEGINS to populate instantly. This is quicker than in the old camera because you don't have to wait for the camera to move first before it populates. CCP Turtlepower
So you STILL insist on f'ing with the way be get our scan results. You want us to sit and wait while ships in line with the scan appear line by line? You wanna try that when scanning down a complex or a planet with 30 ships in it? HELL I'd love to give it a try just to see how much it sucks but I can't. As I mentioned a few minutes ago, "V" does absolutely nothing for me. YES the new camera is on and NO I can't find any entry in the shortcuts tab that relates to the new dscan key. PLUS you still seem to be ignoring the point here. It's not just about pointing and dscanning (even if it were your new gimmick is still just another broken gimmick) it's also about being able to look around in the middle of a fleet fight, select targets, see where they are and what they're doing and make decisions based on the derived situational awareness.WITHOUT extra key presses. Particularly ones that don't work.
One of the dev's also said "The old camera also has momentum." It's not (just) the momentum that occurs when manually directing the camera. Every time you focus on an object using tracking camera, and then focus on a different object or then try to manually move the camera, the F'ing thing goes bonkers. In zoom, out zoom, detaches from ship, ship dissapears momentarily from view then slides back in and if you are selecting a target to track the GD camera points directly at the object THEN drifts offcenter fo some unknown ridiculous reason. Depending on you zoom level and your window layout your ship can end up completely obscured behind windows so you have no idea WTF is going on. In case you haven't noticed EvE is A LOT OF WINDOWS and we (at least I know I do) tend to set up out windows so that we can still our ship and space and then arrange all of our windows around that little peep hole. When you start making the ship drift all around and out of that center point you're screwing with what we can see and our awareness. JUST STOP FFS.
I mean, do I need to make a friggin video for you guys and narrate the whole thing. Showing you how the camera behaves and telling you every little thing step by step that is wrong with it? You CAN run an eve client yourself right and you HAVE played the game before right?
Daemun of Khanid
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Esnaelc Sin'led
The Unchained Club
62
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Posted - 2016.02.12 21:01:42 -
[276] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Now on to D-Scan. We have been bouncing around some ideas and came up with a new prototype way to D-Scan that I just put up on our Singularity test server where it will remain over the weekend. If you have the time and interest, please try getting on there and trying it out. It works like this: Hold down V and click something to D-scan it. V also opens up the D-scan window if it is not already open, and is a bindable shortcut key. Yes, you still have to hold down a keyboard button to scan quickly, but it only takes 1 click and the results are populated instantly in the D-scan window. This effectively reduces keystrokes and speeds up the whole process, making it faster and easier than ever before! After a scan, the GÇÿScanGÇÖ button grays out until the 2 second cooldown has elapsed, at which point the button blinks a little bit to let you know you can perform a new scan. Please leave any feedback for this prototype feature in this thread.
I've just tested new D-Scan thing.
Now i'm confused, cause i very much like the way the camera moves, its speed and the instant result. Though, ... i feel disturb by the 'non aligned' axe that makes [My Camera]-->[My Ship]-->[Object_to_D-Scan] even though i do know that my camera is D-Scanning the exact object i clicked while pressing. The fact that it was drawing an axe between camera / ship / object to DScan was a point of reference as of WHERE you would DScan exactly @ 5 degrees, for some situations, it might be harder to be sure what we are DScaningwithout this point of reference.
Probably a habit to re-learn. And i'm ok with that.
About a moving object that's ok, once you've done your command and you don't touch camera position anymore, it follows the object till it goes out of grid. Enough to be able to see where the object went. BUT Constantly having to press the shortcut + the object is something more to care about.
Probably a habit to re-learn, but i find it harder to re-learn than the basic D-Scan.
A simple mode on/off would be so much easier, but we would lose that instant result that i really like. Hard to decide if it's better or not... |
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
358
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Posted - 2016.02.12 21:05:54 -
[277] - Quote
Here's a pretty picture for you... Screen Shot
At any given moment that's what I'm looking at on my screens.
On the right I'm using the old camera. As you can see, my ship is right there in the middle and no matter what I do... there she is. Right there in the middle. I can quickly select objects on the overview and my view aligns with that object showing me where it is in relation to my current vector, where it is in relation to my fleet mates and other celestial objects.
On the left I'm using the new camera. Where's my ship? It supposed to be right the in the middle... is it? Nope. I now have to hit various key combinations while I'm in the middle of a fleet fight to select objects and get a look at where they are in relation to me and even then, once the camera snaps to point at them it then quickly shifts my ship completely out of my sight so I have no idea whats going on. BUT HEY! I have a nice clear view of the ship flying 5k m/s 50km away from me that I'm looking at... or is that a speck of dirt on my monitor... I dunno. Good thing my camera moves my ship out of my way like that for me though huh...
No.
It isn't.
Just in case you didn't get the sarcasm.
If you must have a video showing how the camera pops, snaps, zooms and drifts all over the place when changing targets and manual adjusting the camera just let me know and I'll make you one since you don't seem to have a pc handy to test things out for yourself. Just to let you know though I expect to get paid by the hour.
Just to summarize: The camera NEEDS to be FUNCTIONALfirst and foremost. These little visual effects, and shifting camera's and garbage are NOT functional. They are visual fluff and the detract from a pilots ability to manage his assets in a combat situation. All of these new changes should be part of the old "Advanced camera menu (aimed at video makers)" not what the whole of us are expected to use in everyday situations. I said it before and will say it again, you guys seem extremely detached from your player base and what it's like to actually play your own game.
Daemun of Khanid
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Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
113
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Posted - 2016.02.12 21:06:00 -
[278] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Manic Velocity wrote:CCP Turtlepower wrote: the results are populated instantly in the D-scan window. This is so obviously not the case. The very first thing I noticed is the delayed, line-by-line output of the scan results. Sorry about that, I should have worded that differently. I meant that the list BEGINS to populate instantly. This is quicker than in the old camera because you don't have to wait for the camera to move first before it populates. CCP Turtlepower
Turtlepower - I don't understand why we can't just have the tracking functionality like in the old camera. Your Dscan fix sounds cool and all, but ultimate the functionality we're use to have is lacking and I would love to see it come back into this camera.
There are some inertia issues that need fixing, but for me to use this as a full time play feature, it needs that tracking camera toggle.
@dominousnolen
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
27045
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Posted - 2016.02.12 21:22:57 -
[279] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:I mean, do I need to make a friggin video for you guys and narrate the whole thing. Showing you how the camera behaves and telling you every little thing step by step that is wrong with it? You CAN run an eve client yourself right and you HAVE played the game before right? Trust me, the video is a very good idea becauseGǪ well, your rhetoric questions may not be as rhetoric as you think.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
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Marlene Dakenek
Devid Ventures
19
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Posted - 2016.02.12 21:23:28 -
[280] - Quote
Sadly I have nothing positive to say about the new camera. The rubberbanding camera zoom (or whatever it is called) and sluggish movement are terrible. I much prefer the old sharp and quick movement. Actually the new camera feels like something I could expect from a bad console port. It is also not possible to zoom as far out as before. You have also removed the ability to right-click in space to move the camera around. These are the major issues I could think of right now. I hope you decide to keep all features of the old camera as this new camera makes playing the game very annoying and frustrating. |
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Jeven HouseBenyo
Fifty Shades of Funkyness LLC
347
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Posted - 2016.02.12 21:44:08 -
[281] - Quote
Umm. Err.
So the answer to the new shiny camera of nausea causing nausea is to...
Tweak speed settings.
Give it another chance so we can adjust to motion sickness.
Drink the Kool-Aid, keep forking over cash for a game you seem bound and determined to either break and/or make SO exclusive that only CCP employees and 1%ers will be playing in the Eve Online sandbox.
*-*-*
A variant on the, it's not CCP it's your ISP, that comes up during waves of dicso's and Issue threads start getting rather hot under the collar.
Nope. This IS you. This IS your new camera. YOU fix it on your end. Our job is to play game on a game client that is Functional.
If you do remove the 'Classic/Legacy' camera choice, YOU make the game NOT functional for some due to Nausea. I don't speak for anyone but myself. But you remove that camera option, I. QUIT.
>Jeven's Torqued Off Creatrix
Minny boat flyer, unofficial squeaky wheel.
'Game Ethics and Morality Monitor' I remember promises.
Snark at 11-24/7/365.25. Overshare? Yup.
Yes it's my fault. And if you don't staap it I'll do it again. ;-P
No you can't has my stuffs OR my SPs.
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FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
3554
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Posted - 2016.02.12 21:49:37 -
[282] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Now on to D-Scan. We have been bouncing around some ideas and came up with a new prototype way to D-Scan that I just put up on our Singularity test server where it will remain over the weekend. If you have the time and interest, please try getting on there and trying it out. It works like this: Hold down V and click something to D-scan it. V also opens up the D-scan window if it is not already open, and is a bindable shortcut key. Yes, you still have to hold down a keyboard button to scan quickly, but it only takes 1 click and the results begin populating instantly in the D-scan window. This effectively reduces keystrokes and speeds up the whole process, making it faster and easier than ever before! After a scan, the GÇÿScanGÇÖ button grays out until the 2 second cooldown has elapsed, at which point the button blinks a little bit to let you know you can perform a new scan. Please leave any feedback for this prototype feature in this thread.
Hope you all have an awesome spaceship-filled weekend, CCP Turtlebutt // Team Psycho Sisters
You've completely missed the point. The old tracking camera was good for far more than dscan.
Scouting structures? Warping to the location and clicking the structure on overview automatically put it in your field of view.
In combat? Clicking something on your overview immediately shifted your view to it.
Need to sort of align to something but don't want to run into it because you're cloaked? Click it, and once your camera points at it double-click near it and you've got an angled approach that will take you close without risking a direct hit.
Your userbase WANTS TO KEEP WHAT WE HAVE. We don't like the new thing you made. We're sorry, I know it was a lot of work and you're proud of it and it's going to make for some neat visuals, but you're breaking functionality and we're not happy with it. The absolute best thing you can do here is say "We understand, we'll maintain the tracking camera as a mode of the new camera system and implement it on TQ for your testing before we remove your ability to turn off the new camera"
Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
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Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
343
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Posted - 2016.02.12 21:51:00 -
[283] - Quote
Cancelling all of my subscriptions if the old camera dies and the new camera is still ****.
Your new camera is garbage.
Thank me later :D
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Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
366
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Posted - 2016.02.12 21:57:58 -
[284] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:I mean, do I need to make a friggin video for you guys and narrate the whole thing. Showing you how the camera behaves and telling you every little thing step by step that is wrong with it? You CAN run an eve client yourself right and you HAVE played the game before right? Trust me, the video is a very good idea becauseGǪ well, your rhetoric questions may not be as rhetoric as you think.
UHG, fine. But I'm not gonna bother with overlay text and graphics etc so try to follow along CCP.
VIDEO
OK, at the opening of the video up till time 0:10 all seems fine. I'm actually ok with where the zoom speed and drift from moving the camera is at this stage. It doesn't feel as "connected" with my inputs as the old camera but I can get used to it.
0:12 I use the current shortcut key "C" to point the tracking camera at an object selected on the overview.
0:16 by this time the camera has shifted the view of my ship completely out of my line of sight. (that's not a good thing just in case you were wondering)
0:20 I click on drag on the screen to manually point the camera just as I would if I was in a fight and trying to get a look around me. (don't want to go bumping into stations or asteroids while I'm kiting around in my little slicer now do I) Notice what the camera does. It doesn't just smoothly rotate from where I'm currently looking, instead it snaps around 180 degree's and zooms WAAAYYY out on my ship. Not very helpfull for maintaining situational awareness now is it. In fact at first I have no idea what I'm even looking at or where my ship even went.
0:30 I use the tracking camera a few more times further demonstrating how my ship is just constantly awol.
0:40 once again I attemp to manually adjust the camera and boom, I'm out at max zoom facing some random direction again.
It should also be noted that during warp the camera shift is equally problematic. Moving my camera all over the place in ways I have no desire for it to do so.
The way the camera snaps around spinning 180 degrees and then drifting the ship in and out of view is a big part of the nausea problem. It's like reading a book while riding in a car and getting car sick. When your eye's, inner ear and intentional body movements send inputs to your brain that don't align it causes motion sickness.
With this new camera, the camera (a view point that you are accustomed to being your eye's in space) is moving around in all sorts of ways that do not correlate to what your hands are telling it to do on your keyboard and mouse, nor what you brain is telling you that it should be doing based on predictable response to input and environment. The physiological response to that situation is vertigo/motion sickness/nausea.
Does that spell things out clearly enough?
Edit; Sorry with all the nausea explanation I forgot to point out... IT RUINS YOUR SENSE OF LOCATION AND SITUATIONAL AWARENESS!.
Daemun of Khanid
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Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
115
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 22:02:25 -
[285] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:CCP Turtlepower wrote:Now on to D-Scan. Hope you all have an awesome spaceship-filled weekend, CCP Turtlebutt // Team Psycho Sisters You've completely missed the point. The old tracking camera was good for far more than dscan. Scouting structures? Warping to the location and clicking the structure on overview automatically put it in your field of view. In combat? Clicking something on your overview immediately shifted your view to it. Need to sort of align to something but don't want to run into it because you're cloaked? Click it, and once your camera points at it double-click near it and you've got an angled approach that will take you close without risking a direct hit. Your userbase WANTS TO KEEP WHAT WE HAVE. We don't like the new thing you made. We're sorry, I know it was a lot of work and you're proud of it and it's going to make for some neat visuals, but you're breaking functionality and we're not happy with it. The absolute best thing you can do here is say "We understand, we'll maintain the tracking camera as a mode of the new camera system and implement it on TQ for your testing before we remove your ability to turn off the new camera"
^^^ Perfectly stated.
@dominousnolen
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Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
343
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Posted - 2016.02.12 22:03:33 -
[286] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:Tippia wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:I mean, do I need to make a friggin video for you guys and narrate the whole thing. Showing you how the camera behaves and telling you every little thing step by step that is wrong with it? You CAN run an eve client yourself right and you HAVE played the game before right? Trust me, the video is a very good idea becauseGǪ well, your rhetoric questions may not be as rhetoric as you think. UHG, fine. But I'm not gonna bother with overlay text and graphics etc so try to follow along CCP. VIDEOOK, at the opening of the video up till time 0:10all seems fine. I'm actually ok with where the zoom speed and drift from moving the camera is at this stage. It doesn't feel as "connected" with my inputs as the old camera but I can get used to it. 0:12 I use the current shortcut key "C" to point the tracking camera at an object selected on the overview. 0:16 by this time the camera has shifted the view of my ship completely out of my line of sight. (that's not a good thing just in case you were wondering) 0:20 I click on drag on the screen to manually point the camera just as I would if I was in a fight and trying to get a look around me. (don't want to go bumping into stations or asteroids while I'm kiting around in my little slicer now do I) Notice what the camera does. It doesn't just smoothly rotate from where I'm currently looking, instead it snaps around 180 degree's and zooms WAAAYYY out on my ship. Not very helpfull for maintaining situational awareness now is it. In fact at first I have no idea what I'm even looking at or where my ship even went. 0:30 I use the tracking camera a few more times further demonstrating how my ship is just constantly awol. 0:40 once again I attemp to manually adjust the camera and boom, I'm out at max zoom facing some random direction again. It should also be noted that during warp the camera shift is equally problematic. Moving my camera all over the place in ways I have no desire for it to do so. The way the camera snaps around spinning 180 degrees and then drifting the ship in and out of view is a big part of the nausea problem. It's like reading a book while riding in a car and getting car sick. When your eye's, inner ear and intentional body movements send inputs to your brain that don't align it causes motion sickness. With this new camera, the camera (a view point that you are accustomed to being your eye's in space) is moving around in all sorts of ways that do not correlate to what your hands are telling it to do on your keyboard and mouse, nor what you brain is telling you that it should be doing based on predictable response to input and environment. The physiological response to that situation is vertigo/motion sickness/nausea. Does that spell things out clearly enough? Edit; Sorry with all the nausea explanation I forgot to point out... IT RUINS YOUR SENSE OF LOCATION AND SITUATIONAL AWARENESS!.
Maybe you should have bold text ... I'm not sure they get it. This is the first time I've actually felt disappointment towards CCP. Perhaps it was inevitable? I love Eve and the people I've met along the way.
Thanks for making your video - hopefully they get it.
Thank me later :D
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Manic Velocity
The Corp I Just Left
160
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Posted - 2016.02.12 22:05:33 -
[287] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Sorry about that, I should have worded that differently. I meant that the list BEGINS to populate instantly. This is quicker than in the old camera because you don't have to wait for the camera to move first before it populates.
CCP Turtlepower
If I had to choose between waiting for the camera to swing around to get a complete list of data, or having that data begin to populate instantly and finish output after a second or two, I would absolutely take the first option. The d-scan data in its entirety needs to output instantly. Just as it currently does on TQ, and has always done for as long as I can remember.
If you thought people were pissed about the loss of a proper tracking camera, then just wait to see how they deal with delayed d-scan results.
@manicvelocity
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Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
115
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Posted - 2016.02.12 22:05:55 -
[288] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:Tippia wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:I mean, do I need to make a friggin video for you guys and narrate the whole thing. Showing you how the camera behaves and telling you every little thing step by step that is wrong with it? You CAN run an eve client yourself right and you HAVE played the game before right? Trust me, the video is a very good idea becauseGǪ well, your rhetoric questions may not be as rhetoric as you think. UHG, fine. But I'm not gonna bother with overlay text and graphics etc so try to follow along CCP. VIDEOIT RUINS YOUR SENSE OF LOCATION AND SITUATIONAL AWARENESS!.
Thanks for posting this. The dodgy movement really needs to be highlighted as a problem. Hopefully this kinda hits the problem home for them.
@dominousnolen
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Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
368
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Posted - 2016.02.12 22:11:42 -
[289] - Quote
Almost forgot, that'll be $17.50. At a rather unremarkable hourly rate of $20; recording the video, breaking it down and explaining it in a forum post was about 45 minutes of my day wasted. I can take cashiers check or paypal if that's more convenient.
Really surprised you guys can't boot up a client and see this stuff for yourselves.
Daemun of Khanid
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Partsking
THORN Syndicate Circle-Of-Two
56
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 22:15:34 -
[290] - Quote
Um, yeah. The new camera is ****.
Leave the option in to use both and everyone will be happy. Happy customers, happy subs. |
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Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
116
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Posted - 2016.02.12 22:31:09 -
[291] - Quote
The forums are filling up with so much hate for the new camera.
Meanwhile at CCP Head-quaters
@dominousnolen
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Mil Hegirin
Gingertar
1
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Posted - 2016.02.12 22:47:29 -
[292] - Quote
Some reasons I don't use the new camera
- D-Scan is harder to use - lost functionality
- C must be held down to use the tracking camera. Every. Single. Time.
- The Fishbowl effect - most pronounced when warping
- Camera inertia - literally worthless
- The tactical grid camera's pivot point is nigh impossible to manipulate, making it largely useless for subcaps
- First person is cool, but has no practical value
- FOV sliding. RIP my sense of distance. RIP my ability to make minor adjustments on the fly
Many of the changes are cool for movie makers, and clunky for everyone else. Clunky means poor design |
Drake III
Blame The Bunny The Dark Nation
11
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Posted - 2016.02.12 22:55:56 -
[293] - Quote
So if I'm a new player and get nausea from the way the camera moves how long will I actually keep playing? On top of that if tell you about it you would tell me to adjust the camera settings. Having just started having no idea what I'm doing in a complex universe I have to also tweak a bunch of settings just to play.
Welcome to EVE
Also in response to you saying nothing is final and it is a work in process. The new camera is a default setting and new players would not even know there was a difference. I have been playing since 2006 and I did not know until I did some digging |
2D34DLY4U
BACKUPLEGION
46
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 22:57:50 -
[294] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote: It's not just about pointing and dscanning (even if it were your new gimmick is still just another broken gimmick) it's also about being able to look around in the middle of a fleet fight, select targets, see where they are and what they're doing and make decisions based on the derived situational awareness.WITHOUT extra key presses. Particularly ones that don't work.
A million times this - CCP please reflect on what we are telling you, these are good messages, try it out for yourself to understand better - we are speaking the truth here and this is relevant and matters a lot to play the game.
Perhaps you can join RvB to learn since its high sec & accessible, they used to have engagements all the time where two fleets warp to each other and brawl, when you are in a middle of a blob of ships it is very important to have a camera that is centered on your ship (so you can see where you are going to) and use tracking (one click) followed by double clicking in space (to change where your ship is pointed to) in order to fly manually towards or in directions relative to others depending on what you want to do.
This is a good enough approximation to what happens when you are in fleet fights and again have to quickly understand where everything is while manually flying your ship. If you are heading in direction A and you see some target is to the left of you (because you click it and the camera, while remaining centered on your ship, is now pointing to the left automatically), you can then quickly adjust your direction relative to the target (by double clicking in space around your ship) while at the same time keeping tabs on where your ship is pointed to since it remains in the center of your screen. Note all of this is performed with the mouse and requires 3 clicks, a single click to point the auto track camera and a double click to move your ship, this while leaving your non mouse hand to work on speed, modules, etc.
You can also use tactical view to perform this from a more zoomed out perspective, but these are two good ways of flying that work, why take away one for no reason or replace it with menus and keybinds that even if they worked would be a worse solution?
RvB is high sec and you can easily make an alt to join and learn, inject some skills points and do a few frigate brawls to understand. We are not crazy although we are certainly desperate with this 1 month warning - this new camera may be awesome for videos and we understand you put a lot of work into it but for flying it simply doesn't work, the last thing we need is even more things to make EVE hard to play on top of an already complex UI/control model that you guys invented, we do our best to lean to use it effectively with the tools you give us that work, don't take them away or make them worse. |
Dantesi Cadelanne
Ubiquitous Hurt The WeHurt Initiative
6
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Posted - 2016.02.12 22:58:29 -
[295] - Quote
Drake III wrote:So if I'm a new player and get nausea from the way the camera moves how long will I actually keep playing? On top of that if tell you about it you would tell me to adjust the camera settings. Having just started having no idea what I'm doing in a complex universe I have to also tweak a bunch of settings just to play.
Welcome to EVE
This^^^
Links to current poll related to the Dev blog: Unboxing the new Camera in EVE Online
http://imgur.com/xUd2UJb (Initial Poll Data)
https://twitter.com/EVE_Dantesi/status/697896708810735617 Poll Link
02/11/2016
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Needmore Longcat
Hoover Inc. Pandemic Legion
240
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Posted - 2016.02.12 23:08:29 -
[296] - Quote
Stop trying to fix things that aren't broken.
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Chrome Veinss
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
30
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Posted - 2016.02.12 23:45:02 -
[297] - Quote
I gave the new camera another try. Its usable now that it can actually track things and not a horrible experience if all options are disabled and camera speed is set to maximum. Would be much better if "c" acted as an on/off toggle instead of having to press "c" every time i want to track something. Its still worse than the old camera. But at least its somewhat usable.
But I think the biggest problem right now is the camera not centering on your ship, this is what is making me once again go back to the old camera after 30 minutes with the new one. You only have to try tracking a thing in space, then another thing and surely enough you'lll lose sight of your ship behind some UI element and be lost in space. Its a really obvious problem and its pretty mindboogling that you'd release this as it is right now (let alone release it as it was before this first patch). |
Acedia Prime
Dysfunctional Dudes
0
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Posted - 2016.02.12 23:54:28 -
[298] - Quote
I'm so sad that auto-tracking is not available for the new camera mode!!! Everything else about it is so shiny! Unfortunately, not having the option of auto-tracking makes it unusable for anything else than cinematic purposes... |
Aoi Litvyak
Random inactiva corporation
13
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Posted - 2016.02.13 00:07:20 -
[299] - Quote
Maybe the solution is extremely simple.
Why not have the new cameras settings mimic or be as close to the current camera as possible by default.
Yeah CCP you want to show off all its new features, but thats the same kind of bullshittery an artist pulls to make it "cinematic" and look awesome on screenhots! With no regards to actual gameplay. The new camera doesnt need to have all its features on tweaked up to 11, it would be logical to make its default settings close to the original with the new features mostly disabled, and people can turn them on if they like it.
Maybe even have an extra setting thats Camera-Presets, with like Classic and New, and changing it changes all the camera settings. |
Remiel Pollard
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
7511
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Posted - 2016.02.13 00:16:06 -
[300] - Quote
"we now have three different in-space cameras instead of the one before:"
And as long as one of them does the same thing as the one I have now, we won't have a problem. But if I'm being forced to use something I didn't ask for (ie Captain's Quarters all over again) I won't be sticking around.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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