Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 23 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
|
CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
6476
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 12:21:04 -
[1] - Quote
With the February release (deployed on February 9), we have also introduced a new default camera.
The previous camera was based on quite old code and was due for a rewrite. Now we have a system where multiple, special purposed cameras can happily live side by side to give you the best view possible of New Eden!
Read all (and watch the video) about the new camera in CCP Optimal's latest blog Unboxing the new Camera in EVE Online.
CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer - Volunteer Manager
|
|
Conjaq
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
16
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 12:29:29 -
[2] - Quote
I like the idea, and i welcome a new camera. but.....
* The scroll speed when zooming in and out, is uncontrollable * The camera movement orbit function feels sluggish....
And worst of all * I get nausea using it.. Rendering it completely impossible to use.
|
Commander Nina Hanomaa
Chapter Six Chapters.
14
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 12:30:35 -
[3] - Quote
Hello,
With the new camera, I am not able too "look around" when holding right mouse button like I was used to. From the Dev Blog I couldn't tell if this is a feature or a bug. Nevertheless is bothering me way more than it should. |
Mister Ripley
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
148
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 12:38:53 -
[4] - Quote
lol. Half of the features in the video don't work on TQ |
BayneNothos
United Electro-Magnetic Federation Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners
155
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 12:42:30 -
[5] - Quote
Few things on the Orbit Camera. Tested on an Astero, if it changes anything.
- If I full zoom in then track on another object I end up with my ship offscreen. This causes snaps or weird lerps with the camera depending on if I go to rotate or track another object. Also vomit inducing.
- The track key is no longer a toggle.
- The UI name for the track is [no label: UI/Commands/CmdToggleCameraTracking]
- When I set the shortcut for track to a button on my mouse it doesn't do a quick snap to the target like a button does but instead does a marquee.
- I turned off Ship Speed Offset real quick as it doesn't seem to play well with tracking and warping around. Lots of whipping around and max zooming.
- I can't track objects I click in space but aren't on overview.
- Max zoom out seems a lot closer in than before.
- Camera doesn't like looking directly down or up. It twists and moves around a lot.
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
14053
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 12:55:19 -
[6] - Quote
i cant track ships once they enter warp. im turning this off and it will remain off until i can.
thanks but a cinematic feel isn't worth losing functionality.
just to recap on recant features,
new map , great, i use it extensively.
new probes and dscan windows , great i use them extensively.
im not pissing and moaning because i dont like change , im doing it (and have been for months) because this feature removes functions i actively use every time i undock.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
|
Maria Kishunuba
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 13:07:53 -
[7] - Quote
Quote:for whatever reason you feel it necessary revert, please us the forums to let us know why Other than the stuff raised above, it's super hard to control the zoom distance using the mouse wheel compared to the old camera.
With the old camera and a locked scroll-wheel, you can very accurately choose the amount of zoom you want, with the new camera, the zoom keep running even when I stop scrolling. This loss of control is huge, since the amount of zoom ultimately decide where you're ship is flying when double clicking in space.
In general, the new camera seem to make it harder to orient yourself in space in regards to flying your ship. (It's a nice trailer-like effect, such a shame it's a video game and not a cinematic we're playing ;) ) |
Malaika Zuri
Star Frontiers Brotherhood of Spacers
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 13:28:27 -
[8] - Quote
The Zoom direction is not consistent. If inverted it's back to normal in space, but not for PI or the System Map. |
Tikktokk Tokkzikk
Wilderness
297
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 13:49:19 -
[9] - Quote
I'm very happy with how the new camera controls turned out from when I first tested it on SISI. All the problems I was worried about have been solved with the settings.
I'm sad to see the tracking camera go, though. I never realized how useful it is until it was gone.
One issue I've had using the new camera today is tactical overlay being disabled whenever I jump through a gate. Hopefully this is an oversight. |
Adam Paterson
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 14:03:28 -
[10] - Quote
The tracking camera is a must keep in my opinion, it makes it nearly impossible to hunt some one on d scan or follow a ships movements without it. And it is a shame the feture to create your own custom tracking position is not considered. Unfortunately I will be opting out due to this. |
|
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising Decayed Orbit
120
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 14:30:31 -
[11] - Quote
the old tracking camera allowed me to pick things on the overview and track those including celestials. which made d-scan very effective to find targets. now you need to right click on something and say "track". and that option is even missing from the celestials.
I would welcome the return of the old behavior for that.
also o7 tikk |
Longdrinks
Leather Club Paisti Syndicate
225
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 15:11:58 -
[12] - Quote
http://i.imgur.com/0tuEGtz.png
no permanent tracking camer is a no go for me vOv |
aria Yatolila
SnaiLs aNd FroGs
51
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 15:20:08 -
[13] - Quote
Tracking command dont work with ship in space and in my overview, also not permanent tracking i can enable/disable with "C" is a regression in my point of view as its far less effective for D-scan.
Lady Yatolila, retainer of her Lady Kadesh and Khanid Royal House
|
Valuv
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 15:33:04 -
[14] - Quote
Needs a FOV setting rather than a hidden shortcut, and it needs to remember the FOV so that we won't have to reset it everytime. |
Haskuldr
Out of Focus Odin's Call
4
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 15:42:57 -
[15] - Quote
Reverted. I like my tracking option |
Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2288
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 15:54:28 -
[16] - Quote
Fancy that you like your camera, but please refrain from activating menu options that players, like me, have deactivated. I am not interested in that camera as it is inferior to the old camera.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
|
Ruk Nardieu
Junknown
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 16:12:15 -
[17] - Quote
I don't mind the new camera but I reverted back right away once I noticed the change in tracking. The old camera has a way better tracking camera (automaticly, just need to click something on your overview, instead of holding 'C' ), which: - Still shows your ship while tracking something - Is far easier to dscan |
ddred
Empire Assault Corp Dead Terrorists
11
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 16:47:01 -
[18] - Quote
I'm not sure if there's an option, but I can't find it. But is there anyway to disable the mouse smoothing for the new camera? The new camera feels a lot more cinematic, but I do wish I had the functionality of the new camera controls with the quick responsiveness of the old one. Whenever I rotate the camera with the new controls, it feels super slow. |
2D34DLY4U
BACKUPLEGION
23
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 16:59:45 -
[19] - Quote
Dear CCP,
PLEASE DO NOT REMOVE AUTO TRACKING CAMERA AS IT IS EXTREMELY USEFUL
- When manually flying it allows you to quickly point towards or against a target and get your bearings realtive other things - When d scanning you can quickly two click dscan stuff - click target -> camera tracks auto -> press dscan - When flying logi in fleet you need to know where hostiles are and where friendlies are, tracking camera works wonders for this
IN SHORT: NEW CAMERA IS AWESOME, GREAT U ARE WORKING ON WHATEVER HILMAR DID 16 YEARS AGO, DO WHATEVER YOU WANT BUT KEEP AUTO TRACKING CAMERA AS IT WAS GOOD FOR YOUR GAME
- Click to tracking is AWUFUL - Menu trackig is AWUFUL - Auto tracking is AWESOME
Sorry CAPS but this is RALLY RELEVANT.
Hope that was clear.
Thank you! :) |
Raphendyr Nardieu
Unpublished Chapter Suddenly Content
63
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 17:33:01 -
[20] - Quote
Conjaq wrote:I like the idea, and i welcome a new camera. but.....
* The scroll speed when zooming in and out, is uncontrollable * The camera movement orbit function feels sluggish....
I'm pretty sure the camre speed effects the zoom speed. I'm currently going with x1.6 speed and it feels quite ok. This also removes most of the "sluggish". |
|
Raphendyr Nardieu
Unpublished Chapter Suddenly Content
63
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 17:35:51 -
[21] - Quote
I need to iterate the tracking camera using C for some time in combat, as the new implementation might be nice there.
Though as wormholer I often have eyes on the holes (ask any CCP worker who plays in wormhles to demostrate it). In this case first thing I do when someone comes to overview (e.g. by coming trought the wormhole) is, right click -> pilot -> show info. In old state this also triggered select to that ship and thus while looking who he was I can see where he warps to. |
Officer Pressly
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 17:55:37 -
[22] - Quote
Removing the tracking camera, as it functions on the old camera, is a step in the wrong direction. I Hope for everyones sake that this doesnt gets removed. |
Raphendyr Nardieu
Unpublished Chapter Suddenly Content
63
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 18:01:12 -
[23] - Quote
Raphendyr Nardieu wrote:Conjaq wrote:I like the idea, and i welcome a new camera. but.....
* The scroll speed when zooming in and out, is uncontrollable * The camera movement orbit function feels sluggish....
I'm pretty sure the camre speed effects the zoom speed. I'm currently going with x1.6 speed and it feels quite ok. This also removes most of the "sluggish".
Need to revert this statement as zooming speed was raised while kiiping the rotation speed the same. Thus 1.6x is too fast for zooming while being nice for turning the camera. Would it be possible to get 2 sliders, one for rotate and for zoom? |
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
283
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 18:01:36 -
[24] - Quote
Hey, not to be mean but you did test this tracking thing before you released it right? I would like this beta feature selectable at the very least.
Thank you
@lunettelulu7
|
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
97
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 18:05:42 -
[25] - Quote
+1 for restoration of the tracking camera. Essential for every combat.
I'll try the camera when I'm home, but so far the feedback on here/Reddit isn't encouraging.
This is EVE, Not Hello Kitty: Island Adventure
===================================
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union - "Turning Lead into Gold since 2008"
|
Aaron J Brewster
Concordiat Spaceship Samurai
40
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 18:20:03 -
[26] - Quote
CCPlease,
Please restore the set parent and set interest function. Also, allow for me to right click on an item and select it too. Removing the Set Interest and moving it to 'Track' in the selected item (Which doesn't work well at all) but leaving the Set Parent on right click menu is a totally trivial change.
Thanks friends
|
Leonardo Adami
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
117
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 18:31:06 -
[27] - Quote
Most of the features are really sluggish for me and do not enhancey gameplay. So I'm not a fan, but most importantly and I cannot street this enough. Please please add the tracking feature back, being able to hit "C" and click on what I need to while my camera turns in that direction is amazing. |
Elenna Ailatan
Muse Tech
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 18:35:42 -
[28] - Quote
Please give us back a tracking camera with the same functionality as the old one, until then I don't want to use then new camera, as it makes my gameplay experience much less enjoyable. Adding nice features is good, but please don't remove working features just to add the new stuff. |
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
97
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 18:35:52 -
[29] - Quote
Leonardo Adami wrote: that direction is amazing.
IMO required... Just my two isk.
This is EVE, Not Hello Kitty: Island Adventure
===================================
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union - "Turning Lead into Gold since 2008"
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
14063
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 18:52:12 -
[30] - Quote
Dominous Nolen wrote:Leonardo Adami wrote: that direction is amazing. IMO required... Just my two isk. hes saying he liked the old one
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
|
|
Joan Andedare
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 19:00:00 -
[31] - Quote
the new camera suffers from the same problems as the new map: functinality is sacrificed to make things look better.
please stop going in that direction and focus on producing things that work and do what players wnat to do with them. the game isn't new, there is lots of feedback available and while shiny new stuff might make the game more atractive to new players for a while, in the end a game that is crappy to play is not one that can retain its players.
my two biggest issues with the new camera are the missing tracking functionality (seriously, what were you thinking?) and the fact that the camera has massive inertia and feels very sluggish. |
Cade Kenobi
Death Row inc
7
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 19:05:45 -
[32] - Quote
I have two issues with the new camera. Number one is that it feels sluggish to use compared to what we have now. As was said earlier maybe we could have two sliders one for rotate and one for zoom.
Now the second and main issue I have is can you please please please bring back the option for me to hit C and then just click on what a want to track in my overview, having to hold C down for everything I want to track is just a total no no as I rely on being able to quickly move between objects when I'm d scanning. This single thing is what makes the camera unusable for me at the moment. |
Khan Wrenth
Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation
413
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 19:15:16 -
[33] - Quote
First, this needs to be said.
Do not, under any circumstances, get rid of the old camera.
I remember once reading a science article about some doctors/scientists trying to create some eyewear for blind folks. Think of it like the "Geordi La Forge" glasses. Well, they specifically mentioned that you have to be able to get the images from the camera to the brain ultra-quick, because lag caused nausea.
You introduced a camera that purposefully lags behind the commands imput to it. Swinging the camera around feels like trying to steady a camera on a freshly waxed dance floor while wearing only socks. This is probably why people are feeling nauseous.
That said, the new camera functions CAN be fun and interesting. I like it as an additional option so long as it doesn't replace the current camera. It doesn't matter that the old camera was based on the old code, it works and works perfectly. If you need to re-write it to update it with new code, okay that is understandable, just don't pull a "hey let's strip custom color functionality from the HUD" stunt like they've done before. That mistake still hasn't been corrected, nor have they ever talked about when they'll get around to doing so.
However this new camera setup isn't done correctly.- Alt+1 should be the old, default, functional camera. Alt 2-4 should be the new, fun, interesting camera functions. Why is Alt+4 the New Eden store? I do NOT need that quick-keyed.
And yes, this means migrating the camera toggle from the escape menu/general settings, to actually having it on the HUD where people can actually use it and switch between modes seamlessly.
Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
|
Chrome Veinss
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
19
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 19:15:49 -
[34] - Quote
without the ability to track objects in space this camera is 100% useless to me, not using it until it has the same basic functionality as the old one |
Lonan O'Labhradha
The Circus Corp Alternate Allegiance
2
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 19:25:36 -
[35] - Quote
Regarding the First Person Camera, the number one necessary feature to make it useful is the ability to TURN YOUR HEAD. To that end, it should have "tracking" and "look at" just like the other cameras.
Secondly, the HUD needs the things any manual fly pilot would want--basically, if I have a column on the overview, I also might want that data to display with the object I'm tracking so that I don't have to look away from my target in order to see things like Angular Velocity.
Thirdly, since relative velocity/position are the most important factors in manual piloting, the "ray" that you normally see between you and your selected target with the other cameras is useful here, too.
Fourth, there has to be some way of noting relative distance with other objects--the most obvious is relative icon size. Icons might change in size based on which of the "spheres" they are in on the tactical overlay--an intuitive abstract view of the tactical overlay if you will.
Lastly, if you really want it to be cool and useful, relative velocities can be reported with iconic vector arrows pointing out from the various icons. For instance, the ship icon inside a little circle with a 3D arrow pointing out from it.
|
Leonardo Adami
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
118
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 19:26:20 -
[36] - Quote
also the tactical overlay now shuts off when you session change it's really annoying it should just stay on all the time like before |
Inuro Enderas
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 19:35:26 -
[37] - Quote
I am really not an expert at such things, but I can say that I got a headache... due to that expert stuff mentioned above. Aside from that tracking is useless if I have to hold C. I actually think the first person camera could be used to make some cool videos if... you know... I could turn my head. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
3490
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 19:40:15 -
[38] - Quote
feedback after some testing (tested older versions before so thats not the first time)
it improved a lot, and thanks for the disable dynamic FOV and disable ship offset check boxes.
tracking cam (C) while orbit cam is on: 1) if i hold C and click around in the overview the tracking cam works similarly to the old tracking cam. However, i mapped the dscan button to the middle mouse button, and whenever i click the middle mouse button while holding C, the tracking cam stops working. So i can't use the mouse for dscanning ATM. (which is the reason why i switched back to hilmar cam after the testing)
2) the "moves ship out of the way feature" needs some tweaking i think. It seems to throw the ship from left to right while dscanning and it should in my opinion at no point move the ship completely out of your screen (happens when you are zoomed in). Maybe give us another check box to disable that ;)
orbit cam zoom: i am using an old logitech revolution with stepless mouse wheel (all new logitech gaming mice seem to have the same feature too). With the hilmar cam zoom worked very nice with it since the zoom steps where so small. On the new cam i enabled scroll steps to make it work better since it seems to be designed with a classic mouse in mind. Thats a minor point since i can make it work, but since metal mouse wheels with bearings are awesome i preferred how the hilmar cam zoom behaved.
tactical cam: a visual as reference where the camera is orbiting around is missing. You can zooom out, zoom in, translate the orbit center but you don't know where it is. It used to be your ship or the center of the tactical overlay, but since you can detach it from your ship there is no visual indication where your camera orbit center is.
lasso select: this needs some more tweaks too i believe. Because otherwise you will literally lock EVERYTHING in the rectangle area. Wrecks, drones, LCOs, that little citadel in the background, everything. I don't have a solution for that but it has to be somehow a bit smarter or configurable. So that you can limit it for selecting only ships for example. Or only drones, or only wrecks. (hotkey for ships only selection? if there are no ships it falls back to "everything" selection?)
thats it for now
how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
|
Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2294
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 20:01:46 -
[39] - Quote
Quote:Since changes to fundamental parts of core gameplay systems can be delicate, weGÇÖve decided to keep the option of reverting to the old camera for about 1 month as of now I just read this with horror. So I make myself very clear here: GET. RID. OF. THAT. ZOOM. INERTIAL. It is useless, it is counterproductive, it is disorienting, it makes the useage of the camera a chore and delays display of the information the camera is supposed to display. It is a bad idea in the maps, it is also a bad idea in the camera. GET RID OF IT! This camera is used for combat and proper fleet positioning, not for capturing a movie.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
|
Lord Jester
Delusions of Adequacy Get Off My Lawn
23
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 20:47:28 -
[40] - Quote
Just noticed something...the new camera does not keep the tactical overlay on when changing from 1 to another..very annoying and would be great if a small fix was placed on the game that kept this overlay on when changing from 1 camera view to the other views |
|
Nero Sirius
Dark Horse Cartel. Lost Cause Syndicate
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 21:19:31 -
[41] - Quote
My only concern is the tracking camera. The new features are great, but I'd like to still be able to click and track immediately for scanning purposes, manual flight, etc., instead of having to use "c".
Good stuff, looks gorgeous. But the tracking Camera default setting was fantastic. |
AshenShugar01
Convicts and Savages Shadow Cartel
19
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 21:34:31 -
[42] - Quote
Not a fan of unnecessary changes; old camera was fine why change it? But anyway.
Tracking camera!! Removing this, or rather changing its functionality so much that's its not really a tracking camera is just an awful idea. Also why cant you track into something while in warp? Why slow the game functionality down and make players work harder to play it? Less clicking is good!! (Imagine... Faction Farm (oh I mean War) where you're trying to find a target in a plex, You've probably doubled the time it will take to find the right plex with more clicking and waiting)
When you do use the 'track function' why is your ships slightly to the side? Looks gimped to me.
The First Person camera is a nice feature, looks fun but pretty much without functionality in pvp (I look forward to being proven wrong here)
The 'track' button in tactical mode is just not cool. takes you away from your ship in some kind of half 'look at' half 'track' function. It should be either not both half executed. |
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
316
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 21:35:21 -
[43] - Quote
Bring back the tracking camera as it functions in the legacy camera !
Also could you get rid of the extra 'look/track' icon in the selected item window. Its unnecessary and means I now need to make my selected item window giant so it doesn't default to the tiny version.
All this extra UI you are adding is a really bad direction CCP. It will get to the point where we we will have so many windows and UI elements we wont even be able to see space anymore...
"... ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new... thats where is eve placed... not in cave..."-á | zoonr-Korsairs |-á QFT !
|
Leonardo Adami
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
118
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 21:40:29 -
[44] - Quote
Lost a ship warped away in y pod. This the camera was shaking the whole time. I could see throughy pod and couldn't click on any celestial to warp. Turned off new camera and all was right in the world. |
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
318
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 21:47:42 -
[45] - Quote
So just read the Dev Blog more closely.....
Quote:While the new camera remains in opt-out Beta (which, again, will be for about a month)
They are removing the old camera in one month !
CCP I hope you are ready for unbelievable rage if the old tracking camera functionality isn't inserted into the new camera before then....
I have my pitchfork, tar and feathers ready.
Also get rid of the white ghositing in the tactical camera. All it does is obscure what you are trying to shoot. I dont know anyone who pvps who actually likes it or thinks the ghosting is useful.
"... ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new... thats where is eve placed... not in cave..."-á | zoonr-Korsairs |-á QFT !
|
Jeven HouseBenyo
Fifty Shades of Funkyness LLC
309
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 21:56:45 -
[46] - Quote
I had to turn it off post haste. Why?
Eve pushes against my vertigo often enough, I'm not willing to add nausea to the effect of gravity choosing different directions to 'pull' at me when it's a long login binge. The lag/delay/cinematic swings the new camera takes might be pretty for Youtube video capture use. Functionality is lacking compared to the old camera.
Who thought futzing with Tracking was a good idea? Take their idea spawning rights away for the short term. Patented Bad Idea.
Sorry. Off balance AND green around the gills is not a gaming experience I enjoy. Please leave the old camera in place (and intact!) while working on this new camera shiny to get it functioning, not just pretteh.
>Jeven
Minny boat flyer, unofficial squeaky wheel.
'Game Ethics and Morality Monitor' I remember promises.
Snark at 11-24/7/365.25. Overshare? Yup.
Yes it's my fault. And if you don't staap it I'll do it again. ;-P
No you can't has my stuffs OR my SPs.
|
Noene Drops
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
5
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 21:57:54 -
[47] - Quote
It's been mentioned already a couple of times, but aside from old tracking camera functionality, that is dearly missed, please consider giving players control over the howling sound that starts playing when you switch to the tactical mode. Right now it can be turned off only with UI interaction sound level slider, which also turns off other important UI sounds, e.g. warnings. |
Bear Gilead
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. The-Culture
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 21:59:48 -
[48] - Quote
The new tracking camera is bad. Having to hold 'C' while clinking on the overview is tedious. Hope we can get this fixed. |
Jeven HouseBenyo
Fifty Shades of Funkyness LLC
309
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 22:03:09 -
[49] - Quote
helana Tsero wrote:So just read the Dev Blog more closely..... Quote:While the new camera remains in opt-out Beta (which, again, will be for about a month) They are removing the old camera in one month ! CCP I hope you are ready for unbelievable rage if the old tracking camera functionality isn't inserted into the new camera before then.... I have my pitchfork, tar and feathers ready. Also get rid of the white ghositing in the tactical camera. All it does is obscure what you are trying to shoot. I dont know anyone who pvps who actually likes it or thinks the ghosting is useful.
CCP, a notice to you:
You kill the 'classic/legacy' camera as an option, I'm outta here. Not a threat, not a promise. This is a simple cause=effect physical science reaction. I will not pay to play a game that sends me staggering to worship the porcelain deity Ralph.
>Jeven
Minny boat flyer, unofficial squeaky wheel.
'Game Ethics and Morality Monitor' I remember promises.
Snark at 11-24/7/365.25. Overshare? Yup.
Yes it's my fault. And if you don't staap it I'll do it again. ;-P
No you can't has my stuffs OR my SPs.
|
Valthax Kelkore
Damen LLC
3
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 22:06:22 -
[50] - Quote
New camera has been disabled and will remain disabled as long as possible. Yet again you're trying to fix things that aren't really broken, CCP.
Why remove functionality that the community as a whole has gotten used to over time and many have come to rely on? Why make the system as a whole more complicated than need be? Why change things that were perfectly fine to begin with?
I fully understand and appreciate the argument that the code was old and needed to be revised. Fine. Do that, revise it and update it to work with the current state of the game overall. But don't completely change things and expect everyone to switch over within 30 days. Why not work it out on TQ over the next 6-12 months with the community as a whole instead of the minority who have been testing this on SiSi? Or better yet, why not rewrite the code to maintain the original system, deploy that on TQ, then implement small changes over time so pilots get used to small things that affect them in a very big way? |
|
Shade Millith
Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. I N F A M O U S
165
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 22:50:57 -
[51] - Quote
Going to cross post for visibility from the General Thread.
You've massively lowered the camera's vertical movement rate compared to the horizontal, which frankly is a completely STUPID idea in the fully 3D environment of EVE Online. This is just completely bonkers. Even moreso when the fact that the game uses a mouse for control.
For the love of everything, return the camera to a consistent movement speed for vertical and horizontal.
You're trying to reinvent the wheel by slapping a cube on the axle. The orbital camera should be capable of becoming exactly the same as the current camera. |
Lilleus Tribak
Applied Anarchy ChaosTheory.
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 23:29:22 -
[52] - Quote
I just came here to second that I want my right-click free camera back. |
Catherda
Universal Industries Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 23:38:03 -
[53] - Quote
In general, I'm quite pleased with the new camera, and have very few complaints about it's functionality.
There's one aspect, however, that I'm not too happy about, and would feel much more "at home" if it were to be implemented.
The original camera has the ability to let you look at, and zoom in / out of objects that cannot be selected i.e. distant stars, gas clouds etc...
It also has the ability to freely look around, and zoom in / out without any automatic camera control.
For the above two reasons, I would like to propose this feature to be re-implemented into the new "Orbit" camera, so to provide extra camera functionality and versatility.
For those of you who aren't aware of this camera function, you first have to right-click and move the camera to the desired spot, then left-click at the same time, and move the mouse forward or backward to zoom in / out respectively.
Id be very interested to read what you all think of this, as I haven't read many other posts discussing it, despite it been a key part of the original camera (for me anyway). |
Iam Widdershins
puppies and christmas
900
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 23:39:47 -
[54] - Quote
Hey guys, I'm really liking the refinements you've made on the new cameras.
One peeve: Tactical mode resets your tactical overlay to 'on' every jump, and Orbit mode turns it 'off' every jump. Can we have these two save their state?
Lobbying for your right to delete your signature
|
Iam Widdershins
puppies and christmas
900
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 23:42:13 -
[55] - Quote
Catherda wrote:In general, I'm quite pleased with the new camera, and have very few complaints about it's functionality.
There's one aspect, however, that I'm not too happy about, and would feel much more "at home" if it were to be implemented.
The original camera has the ability to let you look at, and zoom in / out of objects that cannot be selected i.e. distant stars, gas butts etc...
It also has the ability to freely look around, and zoom in / out without any automatic camera control.
For the above two reasons, I would like to propose this feature to be re-implemented into the new "Orbit" camera, so to provide extra camera functionality and versatility.
For those of you who aren't aware of this camera function, you first have to right-click and move the camera to the desired spot, then left-click at the same time, and move the mouse forward or backward to zoom in / out respectively.
Id be very interested to read what you all think of this, as I haven't read many other posts discussing it, despite it been a key part of the original camera (for me anyway). I used to do that habitually just as a tic, but I've rarely/never actually used it for anything functional. It's not something I'll miss after enough time has passed, but there is a gap in functionality there since right click dragging no longer does anything in the orbit camera.
If I'm to think about it, it's probably fine. The lack of action there gives you a quick signal that you are not in tactical mode. I leave it up to CCP what to do with this.
Lobbying for your right to delete your signature
|
Leonardo Adami
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
121
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 23:51:23 -
[56] - Quote
Lilleus Tribak wrote:I just came here to second that I want my right-click free camera back.
Yes this too for the love of all that is might CCP just put these camera changes to pasture. The more I play with them the more I hate it. I don't like how it functions. I don't like the bugs. It doesn't enhance gameplay. |
Essensia
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 00:01:53 -
[57] - Quote
I don't usually post on the forums, but this new camera is really irritating for me.
Granted I haven't played with the new camera for long, but from what I've tried, I find myself getting slightly nauseous. There's just something with the mouse sensitivity with the new camera that bugs me.
Ok, so I'm open to new ideas and maybe given some time I might try it out again...
WHAT REALLY GETS ME.... why the heck would you disable the option of turning the new camera off after 1 month? |
Essensia
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
2
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 00:09:35 -
[58] - Quote
Quote "You introduced a camera that purposefully lags behind the commands imput to it. Swinging the camera around feels like trying to steady a camera on a freshly waxed dance floor while wearing only socks. This is probably why people are feeling nauseous."
^^^ Agreed |
Alea
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
201
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 00:09:54 -
[59] - Quote
Whoever is making the last couple years decisions on what coding changes are to be implemented in this game must hate Eve with all there being.
Fellow Eve players please take note: In case you haven't yet noticed HTFU is going to be replaced with P(ay)TFU, that is all..
|
Gremk
The Red Island Foundation Shadow Cartel
19
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 00:37:02 -
[60] - Quote
Hi,
Center Tracking Computer or GTFO.
Thanks! |
|
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
99
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 00:44:20 -
[61] - Quote
Post gate Jump my camera is showing a fish eye view until I adjust the FOV manually with ship speed offset off.
http://i.imgur.com/DSklxGS.jpg
@dominosnolen
|
Soltys
68
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 01:22:18 -
[62] - Quote
Guys, if you decide to rewrite something - then rewrite it in a way that all the functionality is available ?
- toggle-based tracking camera keeping your ship in focus is gone
This is crucial. How do you expect people to start using it, if you rip off one of the most useful features of the old camera ?
The "new" tracking is rather subpar compared to the old version. No permanent toggle (constantly need to press tracking shortcut), no custom positions, own ship taken off the center.
Quote:The GÇ£Look atGÇ¥ command is now also available for items far away, but instead of the camera travelling light years, we just rotate it in place so the object is centered at the screen, which is very handy for, say, directional scanning.
That's what tracking camera does in the old interface (and default 'C' does in new one). And far better at that - without losing focus of my ship, without juggling on-grid objects and without needing to press keys.
There're decade+ old features missing:
- proper FoV slider (and no, alt + zoom is not good, especially that the same shortcut can be used for probe scaling) - fix target alignment on the screen so it respects camera shift settings - proper fullscreen windowed mode - editboxes to type desired resolution in
Subjectively good things about new camera:
- exponential zoom - abilty to de-facto turn off rotation's inertia
Jita Flipping Inc.: Solmp / Kovl
|
Manic Velocity
The Corp I Just Left
140
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 01:35:16 -
[63] - Quote
1. Please bring the tracking camera back.
2. Please bring the tracking camera back.
3. PLEASE bring the tracking camera back.
I really really want the old tracking camera back. This was a godsend when hunting/chasing people around systems, and it made dscan so much easier. Why exactly was it removed? Now I feel crippled. Tracking in the current implementation is practically useless in a tactical situation.
@manicvelocity
|
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
299
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 02:07:47 -
[64] - Quote
Thanks for providing an option to stop trying the new camera (Settings > General Settings > Try New Camera (bottom left)). My issues with the new camera are the same as most except for not tracking during warp. I'm one of those pilots who wants to make it difficult for you to see where I'm going. So, yay for that!
GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½
|
Jeven HouseBenyo
Fifty Shades of Funkyness LLC
317
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 02:09:09 -
[65] - Quote
Quote from an aforementioned Dev Blog on this New Shiny Nausea Inducing Camera Thingy.
"It is now time to take the next step, which is to turn the new camera on by default on TQ. Since changes to fundamental parts of core gameplay systems can be delicate, weGÇÖve decided to keep the option of reverting to the old camera for about 1 month as of now. If, for whatever reason you feel it necessary revert, please us the forums to let us know why so that weGÇÖre able to squash any remaining issues before we pull the final plug on the old cameraGÇÖs dwindling life support."
My complaints, and others, cover a lot of the same territory. And as with the feedback given on the Sisi based thread for the overview icon changes you shoved into place in spite of said asked for feedback, you, CCP, are giving us, your paying customers, a month or so to let you "squash any remaining issues" before you force it by killing "Classic" camera settings.
You kill old camera. I don't add time to my accounts.
Gratz. You are about to run off someone that survived the initial Year of sheer vertical challenge, almost completed year Two. Guess since I and others in that time period don't count as your coveted "New Player Base Focus!" individuals, you'll be glad to know there will be space on TQ for some Wrath Babies to move in, buy SPs, then ragequit when their shiny ships they don't actually know how to fit or fly are blown out from under them.
Middle fingers in surround sound, and you are going to be minus four subscriptions before the summer months arrive.
CCCP, the One Hit Wonder game company.
>Jeven
So when is Paradox releasing a White Wolf IP based game again? HA!!!!!!!!
Minny boat flyer, unofficial squeaky wheel.
'Game Ethics and Morality Monitor' I remember promises.
Snark at 11-24/7/365.25. Overshare? Yup.
Yes it's my fault. And if you don't staap it I'll do it again. ;-P
No you can't has my stuffs OR my SPs.
|
Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
630
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 02:12:57 -
[66] - Quote
When swapping ships in space the automatic MAX zoom in... NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!! Leave the old zoom range, this isnt even cool or an improvement at all.
Other than that Im testing and trying and liking most of it, but this is NOT cool.
Imam: Have you heard anything I've said?
Richard B. Riddick: You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
Imam: That's right.
Richard B. Riddick: Had to end sometime.
|
Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
182
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 02:15:39 -
[67] - Quote
Bear Gilead wrote:The new tracking camera is bad. Having to hold 'C' while clinking on the overview is tedious. Hope we can get this fixed.
ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? You are supposed to hold the key???! WTF?!
I just pressed it once and thought the thing was broken... Oh FFS CCP WTF??! |
Morden Togenada
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 02:23:14 -
[68] - Quote
is there a way to get the dscan to work with the new camera like with the old camera? With the old camera I could just turn on the tracking camera, click on a object in space, fw site in the overview, etc. wait for the camera to point in the direction, and press scan. With the new camera I can't seem to consistently get a dscan of anything, even with things that are on grid. Is there any way to set it so that it always centres the camera so that it is aligned with the direction that the dscan will be performed? |
Alea
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
201
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 02:33:18 -
[69] - Quote
The camera code may be old but it works great, why do you guys at CCP always want to fix something that's not broke.?
I don't understand why you guys ask for player input at all, as per CCPs track record this bugged to hell feature will be implemented and we will be forced to use it like it or not, so just do it and get it over with already.
Fellow Eve players please take note: In case you haven't yet noticed HTFU is going to be replaced with P(ay)TFU, that is all..
|
Sky Marshal
Core Industry. Circle-Of-Two
89
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 03:14:51 -
[70] - Quote
Well... i think that the new camera features are good for making movies but they aren't practical for standard gaming. I mean, we are not ALL movies makers, and so some of this features are just seriously annoying.
First, the "Smoother, yet faster zooming/orbiting" give a feeling of lag and sluggish gaming experience because of this sort of inertial effect. Sorry but there should be an option to disable it. It is possible to do it more-or-less by setting the camera speed at fast, but it would be better to just be able to remove this inertial effect.
"When looking at other ships, camera is allowed to drift slowly, making it very easy to set up super cool fly-by shots. Drifting can be temporarily disabled by holding down the left mouse button for a steady view when you need to take a closer look." I would appreciate an option to invert the disable status, because it will make me nauseous like the old tracking feature, and so disable temporarily isn't convenient.
Also, I request that the "Jump through stargate" (in the right-click menu of the next jump square/name in the "Route" section) return to the first position, making "Look at" and "Track" options BELOW him. I use this all the time to jump manually as it is faster than the stargate sub-section, but this options just break a long-acquired practice for no valid reason nor adding any value. |
|
Whambot
BOVRIL bOREers Mining CO-OP RAZOR Alliance
33
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 03:20:19 -
[71] - Quote
Biggest issue that has been brought up time and time again since SiSi. BRING BACK TRACKING CAMERA TOGGLE. It is ridiculous this hasn't been addressed or at least a valid reason why it was removed given. Warp tracking changes could still be made while keeping toggling functionality if warp tracking is truly considered "over powered" although I don't think it is.
This needs to be fixed if you truly expect people to use the new camera or just keep the old camera option available (BEST idea. Don't fix it if it ain't broken) |
Jon Dekker
Dekker Corporation
51
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 03:39:06 -
[72] - Quote
Can we have a chase camera that also rotates like the First Person mode does? The chase mode that I see here only keeps your ship in view, but still keeps a static rotation. |
Masao Kurata
Perkone Caldari State
343
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 03:39:55 -
[73] - Quote
The old camera is only staying for one month? You must be really keen to shut down the game servers. This needs much more iteration before it's even usable, let alone a replacement for the current camera. I can't even use it long enough to iterate all the problems because I can't do any of my normal activities while it's on. |
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services The WINGSPAN Logo Alliance
655
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 04:28:38 -
[74] - Quote
+1 for making the tracking camera toggle on/off just like the old tracking camera +1 for having d-scan center on what you're tracking, not what is literally in the screen's center (when camera drift is on)
You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
|
Dominic Maricadie
Flame Out
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 04:50:33 -
[75] - Quote
Lack of camera tracking toggle to track a moving object is a deal-breaker. I like the new camera in general (more so now that it has the feature toggles), but the half-baked tracking replacement is horrible.
This has significant gameplay and tactical effects. Please revert; we need the old toggle.
IMHO it is bad enough that it deserves in-game bug reports. |
Zappity
Black Aces I N F A M O U S
2665
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 04:59:22 -
[76] - Quote
Please give me the toggle back. My poor C key is getting all worn away for no good reason.
Also, the camera doesn't snap to anomalies when you click on them in space any more, regardless of whether you press C.
I quite like the changes apart from that. Different camera angles on undock are nice.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
|
TheLostPenguin
Surreal Departure
93
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 07:01:44 -
[77] - Quote
So we're 4 pages in, with a thread full of people posting about the same relatively small number of issues about a change. And nobody from CCP has considered any of them worth responding too. Zero communication, zero F's given. Why is it so hard to listen to what players want and actually give them that instead of being stubborn trolls with just about every single ui change made. We do not hate change, we hate forced change for no good reason. Give us new camera modes and effects, go crazy with it, just give us the option to also have things work EXACTLY the same as before, because that's what WORKS. Nobody was crying out for the camera to be 'fixed' yet apparently it's the most important thing to work on. Nobody cares that the code behind it was ancient because it was probably the only bit of code of similar vintage that did it's job. I guess since we're here yet again this is just going to be dumped live, legacy support removed with a brief mention in release notes talking about "overwhelming positive feedback about the new system" that someone at CCP imagined reading, and yet another piece of crap we have to either put up with or unsub last remaining account. Thanks CCP. |
BSTheo Aldent
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 07:43:41 -
[78] - Quote
Please bring back the tracking camera. The other options might be nice but the tracking camera is critical.
It's really really annoying that's it not there anymore.
Thanks |
Jeremiah Frost
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
3
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 08:25:06 -
[79] - Quote
There is some sort of loud background noise/music that occurs when you select the tactical camera with tactical overlay. It will not turn off with the individual advanced audio settings and you must either disable the camera, turn off the music, or turn all of the UI sound level to 0 in order to make it go away.
I think it is making my brain bleed.
Can you please make it to where we can mute that background noise while leaving the other sounds on? For the love of Bob think of the children.
Thank you for continuously improving Eve. It is a great game.
Please don't make my brain bleed.
<3 |
Non Nie Sarvesh
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
2
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 08:43:03 -
[80] - Quote
Please bring back the tracking camera functionality, I am lost in space without it
|
|
Jean-Luc
EVIL ONES Circle-Of-Two
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 09:34:38 -
[81] - Quote
There should be option to change/unbind keys used to manually change FOV,
That is very annoying, having to change camera views regularly because of having other things attached to CTRL and ALT which i am using on a basis.
In short, let us unbind/change keybinding on those new camera options. |
Miles Aweigh
European Crew. Northern Army
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 09:52:05 -
[82] - Quote
The tracking camera was one of the most useful changes to the UI you ever made. Now you FUBAR it. for the sake of useless eye-candy features. What next, walking in stations?
Option turned off until fixed.
|
Obidiah Kane
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
36
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 09:59:29 -
[83] - Quote
Been reading on other forums/ reddit this is the place the devs will listen...got to say for the record: I have really enjoyed my few plays with the new features with the beta camera, there is clever stuff going on there.
I like the way its added a few new perspectives; the cinematic and the RTS vibes in particular...can imagine the new carrier gameplay (if there are any carrier pilots left after FAXgate!) being a unique experience in Eve.
All that said, its useless. Can I repeat that in case you devs skipped it: Its useless. Please add a feature identical in function to the old tracking camera, to the new controls. Please.
One click track, so simply, so useful...it does in complete efficiency what all these new 'key + click + drag' combos try to do in a convoluted, messy and generally bad way. Simplicity and grace over complexity and nerd every time. Simplicity and grace.
|
Judas II
Dark-Rising Decayed Orbit
34
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 10:44:56 -
[84] - Quote
Hi CCP,
Like many others I too would like to raise my voice to call back tracking camera feature, this is a very important tool and I believe it should be kept in the game. Other than that, the new camera technology is amazing, keep up the awesome work!
Watch my videos at https://www.youtube.com/user/JudasIIEVEOnline
Visit my blog at https://www.judasii.blogspot.com
|
Raphendyr Nardieu
Unpublished Chapter Suddenly Content
65
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 10:47:10 -
[85] - Quote
Few feedbacks. Some might be covered my post to previous thread.
Old camera has "zoom". Hold righ mouse to pan/change the view without actually orbiting (not directly so needed), but when you press additionally the left mouse button you can zoom. With this you can check your own or enemys killmarks or what types of guns/launchers he has. This feature is really important!
For the FPS camera. It would be amazing if you could pan the view or even track other ships. basically this would keep the altitude/crosshair in correct place so you know where the forward is in the view. Also if that croshair gets out of the view, some arrows would appear or something similar. Also fast way to look directly backwards would be cool (e.g. for burning away from a hole to place a bubble).
Extra feature to previous would be that you could e.g. pres the left mouse button down and the ship would start turning towards it based on the mouse offset from the crosshair. I think Elite: Dangerous might have mouse flight done this way. Would be nice addition to the manual piloting (ps. nice that the manual piloting is way more responsive than in the start. didn't notice when this changed though). |
Crystalline Entity
Outdated Host Productions Darwinism.
31
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 11:11:01 -
[86] - Quote
Posting to say please keep the old camera or re-write the "code" to make the new one exactly like the old (if this is really about fixing old code)
The slidey thing is so weird. In pvp you sometimes need lightning fast reactions (sometimes) and slipping and sliding around the screen will be a hinderance to this.
|
Ashlar Vellum
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
231
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 11:18:03 -
[87] - Quote
Neat stuff, but please bring the tracking camera back. |
ISD Fractal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
972
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 12:34:32 -
[88] - Quote
I have had some unusual issues with my y and x axes getting inverted swapping between the old and new camera and in general just playing around with the new buttons. I could find the option for the y axis invert but not the x, which was strange. Eventually the problem fixed itself after pressing on a bunch of buttons.
I like how fast c + clicking snaps on something but it would be great if the option to click on something to center it without pressing c was present.
I've also lost sight of my ship a couple times... I think the look function looks over the "shoulder" of the ship and sometimes I haven't been able to re-center on my ship. I probably need to play around with it some more.
I did the first person view on my ship coming up to dock at a station, it was very cool!
ISD Fractal
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
|
arcyaxiom
Arcy Venture Corp
4
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 12:55:35 -
[89] - Quote
I really want the right click free camera movement, I used that a lot.
You said this new beta camera will add nice features for those making videos but then take away the ability to freely move the camera like that? Makes zero sense.
Also the look at and track feature is far too slow for anything other than aesthetic use, in a combat situation these seconds where it's wasting time showing a nice pan and zoom in count.
Other than that I like it, for aesthetic purposes it's all nice and the tactical camera is a nice idea, just don't remove functionality from the old camera in your move to make the new camera please. Give with one hand take with the other .. |
Charles Surge
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
21
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 13:01:00 -
[90] - Quote
Repeating my comment from 3 months ago:
"New camera is nausea-inducing, unusable, and unacceptable.
Having the orbit camera not centered on ship is simply ridiculous. Ships shoot each other in this game."
Again, the new camera is simply unacceptable. Consider this the strongest possible rejection of the new camera. If this nonsense continues, I will have to read the forum rules and see how much vulgarity I can say. |
|
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1754
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 13:09:34 -
[91] - Quote
Having again tried the camera, i have turned off all the options in the camera settings and feel as though its not in a terrible place.
The damping on camera spin is still a little low and the whole movement feels 'smoothed out' which is just not as nice as the old camera.
Moving the camera vertically is too slow, this needs to be the same as the rotational spin.
The smooth zoom is nice but is too rapid. I have a ratchet-less scroll wheel (G502) which is great (understatement) on the current camera, but the speed of that wheel + the speed of the zoom and the lack of zoom damping means the slightest spin and my camera shoots in and out stupidly fast. |
|
CCP Turtlepower
C C P C C P Alliance
258
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 13:15:05 -
[92] - Quote
Hello everyone!
Thanks for all the feedback and questions. CCP Optimal and I are hard at work trying to fix all the bugs with the new camera, and will be deploying lots of fixes and tweaks this week and next. Here is a list of current known issues that we hope to have fixed ASAP (fixes that went out today are not included):
GÇóVarious right click menus have GÇÿLook atGÇÖ and GÇÿTrackGÇÖ options that donGÇÖt do anything GÇóTactical overlay toggles automatically after each jump GÇóAnomalies cannot be tracked GÇóZoom resets to full when you dock and undock GÇóPlanetary Interaction Scene is adversely affected by the Camera animation when jumping through a Gate or Wormhole GÇóFOV zoom just before jumping results in weird fishbowl FOV GÇóTurrets are not visible on other ships GÇóJumping with old starmap open causes inappropriate animation and map freeze GÇóFirst person view - docking then viewing PI can cause incorrect space scene while docked
If you notice any other bugs with the camera then please file bug reports. I will now attempt to answer some of your concerns:
GÇóI am not able to "look around" when holding right mouse button like I was used to. This is intended, that feature was not included in the new camera. If you use the tactical view you can look anywhere on the grid! GÇóTracking camera can no longer be toggled, what gives!? We are looking into this and considering solutions. GÇóI canGÇÖt track ships once they enter the "in warp" state. This is still being discussed. Ultimately it is a game design decision. GÇóThe new camera makes me nauseous. Some users have reported that un-ticking dynamic field of view and increasing camera speed in general options reduced their nausea. We are looking into other reasons for nausea as well, so If you can give us any more info on when and why you feel nausea during gaming, in EVE or in other games, that would be hugely appreciated! GÇóCamera movement/zoom feels sluggish. Please try increasing the Camera Speed under Display & Graphics in the Esc menu. This setting affects both movement and zoom. GÇóAtmospheric noises in Tactical and First Person cameras are too loud We are tweaking these today.
Fly safe CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
|
|
arcyaxiom
Arcy Venture Corp
4
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 13:24:26 -
[93] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote: GÇóI am not able to "look around" when holding right mouse button like I was used to. This is intended, that feature was not included in the new camera. If you use the tactical view you can look anywhere on the grid! GÇó
With respect, that's rubbish. That's a worse feature for those that used it to look around freely and to make videos etc. The tactical view has a massive overlay, no good for visuals (and an annoying sound that can only be turned off if you turn off other useful sounds with it), and it is not a free look around, it is a clunky top down camera movement, entirely useless for viewing around the way the old right click did. At present right click does nothing in the new camera, why leave the function out and the mouse button unused? You're removing a feature here.
I like the new camera, the new overlay, the new features, but you're removing other ones that I and many others also like, what's the reason? |
Tavin Aikisen
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
380
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 13:31:50 -
[94] - Quote
Oh man, if you're going to use dynamic FOV like that you really need to hurry up with the higher-resolution texture pack...
"Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home."
-Cold Wind
|
Captain Campion
Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North
9
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 13:44:21 -
[95] - Quote
Well, I tried the new camera. I don't understand why it needed to be changed, I never saw a problem with how it worked before. It's harder to keep track of what's going on when the camera is moving and your ship is not centered. I went back to using the old camera. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
14077
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 13:46:53 -
[96] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote: GÇóI canGÇÖt track ships once they enter the "in warp" state. This is still being discussed. Ultimately it is a game design decision.
thanks for clarifying this
ill give a bottle of Teelings single malt for the dev that reverses that decision
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
|
Lair Osen
107
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 13:49:45 -
[97] - Quote
Hey CCP, Is there any way you could make it so that when you box select something with shift, it also sets focus to the target if you have it locked?
It still seem the only way to set which target the lock is focused on is by clicking on it, which was what the box select was made to avoid.
But the box select is awesome otherwise, thanks CCP. |
Kaldacin
Psyonic Legion
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 14:19:24 -
[98] - Quote
Can it be turned off? I'd rather not use the new camera 'system' if it's at all possible. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
14077
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 14:21:28 -
[99] - Quote
Kaldacin wrote:Can it be turned off? I'd rather not use the new camera 'system' if it's at all possible. esc - general settings , bottom left
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
|
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
299
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 14:31:47 -
[100] - Quote
Tried out the new camera again just to confirm something weird. How... how is it zooming out all on its own? I'm just flying around killing some rats, moving the view to see what I'm shooting and suddenly I'm a speck on the screen. I don't know how this is happening but it's very annoying.
Also, I feel the nausea. I can't pinpoint it but it's kinda like being seasick. Back to the old camera for me.
GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½
|
|
Catherda
Universal Industries Inc.
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 14:32:27 -
[101] - Quote
arcyaxiom wrote:CCP Turtlepower wrote: GÇóI am not able to "look around" when holding right mouse button like I was used to. This is intended, that feature was not included in the new camera. If you use the tactical view you can look anywhere on the grid! GÇó
With respect, that's rubbish. That's a worse feature for those that used it to look around freely and to make videos etc. The tactical view has a massive overlay, no good for visuals (and an annoying sound that can only be turned off if you turn off other useful sounds with it), and it is not a free look around, it is a clunky top down camera movement, entirely useless for viewing around the way the old right click did. At present right click does nothing in the new camera, why leave the function out and the mouse button unused? You're removing a feature here. I like the new camera, the new overlay, the new features, but you're removing other ones that I and many others also like, what's the reason?
I agree, as I've already mentioned in more detail on my page 3 post i.e. it reduces functionality and versatility.
CCP Turtlepower expressed in-game in the help channel that the tactical camera can be used, however, it's evident that it can't to the same degree as the right-click method, in fact it's all-over the place.
Seems very illogical removing features when there is no need too... |
Stridsflygplan
Yjellio Circle-Of-Two
87
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 14:36:47 -
[102] - Quote
I opt out. Why?
Orbit camera need to remember if I toggled tactical overlay on or off. now I have to toggle it on every time I dock or do something.
Orbit camera zooming is weird and feels unresponsive. there should be a on/off or slider for how much acceleration there is in the zooming. now its all or nothing almost. old one feels responsive and don't have the acceleration feel.
Tactical camera right click to detach in not always needed and unlocks when you try to hold both left and right mouse and drag to zoom. I would like to be able to rebind or have a toggle for detach. Right now I detach more often when I don't want to just because you use the right click for so much else. |
Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
186
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 14:40:36 -
[103] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Hello everyone!
GÇóI am not able to "look around" when holding right mouse button like I was used to. This is intended, that feature was not included in the new camera. If you use the tactical view you can look anywhere on the grid!
While it may be intended it is not the best idea. It usually helps your case when you explain your thought process when REMOVING existing features.
Yes, you can do it in tactical view, but then you have to switch from orbit to tactical and back again to take a peek. Why? What's the benefit? Why is it better than before?
|
Kaldacin
Psyonic Legion
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 14:50:17 -
[104] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Kaldacin wrote:Can it be turned off? I'd rather not use the new camera 'system' if it's at all possible. esc - general settings , bottom left
Thanks, opted out.
Not a complete Luddite, but I don't have patience for poorly implemented, unnecessary 'improvements'. The old functional design was just fine for me and I hope the option to keep it that way remains. |
Conjaq
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
23
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 14:50:33 -
[105] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Hello everyone!
snip
GÇóThe new camera makes me nauseous. Some users have reported that un-ticking dynamic field of view and increasing camera speed in general options reduced their nausea. We are looking into other reasons for nausea as well, so If you can give us any more info on when and why you feel nausea during gaming, in EVE or in other games, that would be hugely appreciated! GÇóCamera movement/zoom feels sluggish. Please try increasing the Camera Speed under Display & Graphics in the Esc menu. This setting affects both movement and zoom.
Fly safe CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
Increasing speed at movement greatly reduced the nausea affect. Why i'm getting it? ... Well it's all because of expected movement versus, reality.
Basicly it feels like using a monitor that consistently is always 100 ms behind on movement. This coupled with the fact that it's harder to accuractly move the camera exactly to the point of where you want it to be. It kinda skids after you're done moving the camera, which gives it a rolling effect that just mess with my eye to screen coordination completely. My guess it that the problems would go away, if the camera was alot more accurate in its movement.
I hope that makes sense.
|
jason hill
Government The Blood Covenant
851
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 14:59:44 -
[106] - Quote
it`s shite turn it off |
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
769
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 15:01:30 -
[107] - Quote
Adam Paterson wrote:The tracking camera is a must keep in my opinion, it makes it nearly impossible to hunt some one on d scan or follow a ships movements without it. And it is a shame the feture to create your own custom tracking position is not considered. Unfortunately I will be opting out due to this.
The new camera is again an example of style over function if you ask me. I tried to like it - but in the old system all I had to do was click on an object to look at it and have it tracked. It might be the old age kicking in, but for the life of me I cant figure out how to get the same functionality easily in the new system. So after some dicking around, I did what I did with the new map and the new probes - opt out.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
|
Stridsflygplan
Yjellio Circle-Of-Two
87
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 15:01:45 -
[108] - Quote
Quote: GÇóI am not able to "look around" when holding right mouse button like I was used to. This is intended, that feature was not included in the new camera. If you use the tactical view you can look anywhere on the grid!
look around and zoom in on stuff is really useful. the hole use tactical view is dodging the issue and very ignorant.
Quote: GÇóTracking camera can no longer be toggled, what gives!? We are looking into this and considering solutions.
very important that this works. having a bunch of right click menu options is going backwards. CCP used to talk about making the right click menu as light as possible. you fixed something that was not broken.
Quote: GÇóI canGÇÖt track ships once they enter the "in warp" state. This is still being discussed. Ultimately it is a game design decision.
This is very frustrating and bad for PVP. lose of control is a very bad feeling.
Quote: GÇóCamera movement/zoom feels sluggish. Please try increasing the Camera Speed under Display & Graphics in the Esc menu. This setting affects both movement and zoom.
It's an acceleration problem not a speed problem :)
|
fenistil
Space-Brewery-Association
110
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 15:17:36 -
[109] - Quote
I need to be able to easily look at selected objects on overview/directional scan window in such a way that I can run another DS at lower angle. (finding stuff to shoot)
This would involve lining up the camera with the selected object in such a way that the center of my ship falls on the line between the 2.
.
|
Alhira Katserna
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2122
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 15:48:27 -
[110] - Quote
Yeah CCP,
that new camera thingie is maybe good for a video creator (and I wouldn-¦t even bet on that) but not everyone wants to play a movie. It just kills efficiency.
- It is spongy (if that makes any sense in english). There is no accurate movement possible. Nearly cost me an expensive ship as i miscalculated because of this and my desired way was not the one i had. Next reason for that is below.
- I have the option "Camera Center" set exactly in the middle. Why does my ship has to be around 30% more on the left side when i look at the right side of the ship and vice versa? You know that some people have nearly everything of their screen with useful windows cluttered so the ship maybe can disappear behind these windows? Don-¦t you?
- D-Scan is pretty much rekt right now.
- You made it even right + left click to zoom in and out doesn-¦t feel accurate anymore.
And i have to tell you that after 10 minutes of experimenting with that camera i really got nausea. Damn i had to google what the hek it is as i never experienced something like that in any game before. |
|
Jean-Luc
EVIL ONES Circle-Of-Two
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 16:02:28 -
[111] - Quote
Alhira Katserna wrote:. . . And i have to tell you that after 10 minutes of experimenting with that camera i really got nausea. Damn i had to google what the hek it is as i never experienced something like that in any game before.
That is true for me too. When accidentally activated manual FOV (hold CTRL and scroll up/down) i thought for a second i am going to empty my stomach.
At least put an option to turn it off or unbind/change keys for it |
Lai Ming
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 16:04:52 -
[112] - Quote
my feedback:
1. without tracking being a toggle this camera will forever remain inferior to the old one
2. it should remember settings after i jump through gates
3. maybe have a slider for the orbit speed for orbit camera starting from 0.
4. tighten the accelerations a bit more |
Manic Velocity
The Corp I Just Left
144
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 16:07:18 -
[113] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote: GÇóI am not able to "look around" when holding right mouse button like I was used to. This is intended, that feature was not included in the new camera. If you use the tactical view you can look anywhere on the grid!
I'm sorry, this simply adds too many extra steps to the process if all I want to do is just "look over there". I shouldn't be required to activate a bird's-eye view of the grid, re-orient myself in relation to everything else on grid based on this new perspective, take the time to click/drag/pan/zoom around to find the thing I want to look at, then re-activate the standard orbital view.
Again, if all I want to do is something as simple as "look over there", it should be as simple as clicking and dragging my camera's view in the desired direction.
CCP Turtlepower wrote: GÇóTracking camera can no longer be toggled, what gives!? We are looking into this and considering solutions.
As above, the current implementation just adds an extra step that we didn't have to deal with before. (Holding "C" and clicking, as opposed to just clicking.) The solution is to make it a toggle.
CCP Turtlepower wrote: GÇóI canGÇÖt track ships once they enter the "in warp" state. This is still being discussed. Ultimately it is a game design decision.
Can you elaborate on this game design decision to remove what was a very valuable tool to a vast majority of players?
I'm struggling to figure why this was removed, when it was so obviously a boon in chasing people during PvP. The ability to track people as they warped away was resoundingly well-received when it was introduced back in 2012. Removing it is simply not an improvement by any stretch of the imagination.
@manicvelocity
|
Kazi Kugisa
EVE University Ivy League
43
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 16:10:56 -
[114] - Quote
I really only have one requirement that I believe must be implemented before becoming mandatory: having the same or better tracking features than the old camera. As someone who dscans and chases, It took me all of 30 seconds to opt out. It looks pretty but I need tracking function. Even doing the extra click doesn't follow into warp. I just want a setting button for lock camera and follow when clicked in space or overview. If you do that, do whatever else you want. But I don't intend to use it until then. |
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
100
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 16:11:45 -
[115] - Quote
Kaldacin wrote:Can it be turned off? I'd rather not use the new camera 'system' if it's at all possible.
You can uncheck "Try new camera" under the general settings tab in the esc menu. Everyone else has.
@dominousnolen
|
Kazi Kugisa
EVE University Ivy League
44
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 16:16:47 -
[116] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Hello everyone!
GÇóI canGÇÖt track ships once they enter the "in warp" state. This is still being discussed. Ultimately it is a game design decision.
This shouldn't be a discussion. There is neither a valid game design nor lore reason for this function to be removed. If you can have a camera just floating in space, there is ZERO and I mean ZERO reason that it can't track a ship heading into warp. Do like is done with wrecks now and just hold it for a couple of seconds before it resets if you wish. However, there should be no discussion about removing this feature. It is bad for gameplay, poor game design and not in away supported by lore. It fails any category of sense. |
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
304
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 16:19:49 -
[117] - Quote
I'm sure I've made my opinion on this new camera very obvious in multiple threads and in multiple subforums but just to keep it "official" I'll add my truncated 2 cents here.
I opt OUT.
1. Adding key presses to use camera tracking = ... you know I can't even figure out how to put into words how stupid this is. Who came along and seriously though "HEY, lets make is so accomplishing the same task requires more effort" Isn't the purpose of UI revamps supposed to be to IMPROVE functionality?
2. New camera will not allow tracking of objects in warp. REALLY? This is listed like it's supposed to be a fix or improvement? So what your saying is... it's not fair that someone can see where a carebear or lp farmer warps away too so that they can give chase. They obviously want to run away so leave them alone. Are you F'ing kidding me?
3. Camera response curves. Crap trying to make camera movements look all smooth and instead what we get is a camera whose function is essentially laggy as hell. Zooming in and out is wholly unpredictable where your view is actually going to come to rest. I like the way another person put it "It is spongy". A camera's response in the middle of a fleet battle should not be describable by words like "Spongy."
4. Ship offset/speed offset. Just visually distracting and makes it harder to visualize what your looking at when using the tracking camera, particularly when combining tracking camera with dscan to search for targets. So long as it remains a feature that can be disabled though I could care less.
5. Dynamic FOV. Another idea that came out the wrong end of the digestive tract. Any camera zoom that zooms in on the entire star field background is aesthetically and scientifically flawed. Absolutely amazed that any type of QA or decision making review process allowed this idea to proceed.
6. First person camera. Really? Just... really? This is a joke right. Something to appease mindless new pilots are confused because their spaceship game doesn't have a cockpit display? At least the manual piloting has a small degree of usefulness itself but this is just some sort of laugh. Time and resources were spent on this?
So much of this camera is just so incredibly poorly thought out, incredibly poorly tested. We've been providing feedback for ages in the appropriate thread and yet still here we have this steam pile of refuse that has been made "opt out."
Most of the other UI changes I don't really find any reason to moan about. They have been mostly cosmetic and not to a degree that they can cause nausea like this new camera. You won't hear me complaining about taking away a briefcase or making our icons all monochrome, but this thing not only absolutely assaults the senses, it breaks game feature functionality and THAT is a big no no for something that is billed as an "improvement."
Daemun of Khanid
|
Shantoo
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 16:23:40 -
[118] - Quote
I often reset my PI while running goods. Anytime I have a system change while in planet view mode the camera completely freaks out. Exiting planet mode & reentering works to reset it, but I didn't have to do that before.
Also not having the tracking camera really makes dscan much more time consuming to orient yourself to objects. |
Annemariela Antonela
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
330
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 16:24:48 -
[119] - Quote
Please keep the old camera as a permanent "legacy" option for those who prefer it. No one should have to lose ships because you forced us to use the new one with all its wonkiness. Even if said wonkiness is ironed out, we should always have the option to use the old camera-- and I think that goes for the map and scanner interfaces as well.
Thank you.
GÇ£Culture is like a smog. To live within it, you must breathe some of it in and, inevitably, be contaminated.GÇ¥
GÇò Richard K. Morgan, Altered Carbon
|
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
305
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 16:25:04 -
[120] - Quote
Dominous Nolen wrote:Kaldacin wrote:Can it be turned off? I'd rather not use the new camera 'system' if it's at all possible. You can uncheck "Try new camera" under the general settings tab in the esc menu. Everyone else has.
The problem is, and this is according to a devblog from what I hear. This new camera is going to be MANDATORY in about a month. As in you CAN'T turn it off. Just turning it off because it sucks isn't enough. Ppl need to be voicing their opinions on this mess until CCP's ears bleed.
Daemun of Khanid
|
|
Jeven HouseBenyo
Fifty Shades of Funkyness LLC
322
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 16:34:33 -
[121] - Quote
To CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters, CCP in general.
I'm having severe difficulty working up the willingness to help tweak the new camera to a functional, non-nausea/vertigo inducing mess with my personal feedback and replies on this thread. Why?
My faith in your Vision (tm) has faded with your decisions over the last 6-7 months. My trust in CCP's promises to their customers is in the garbage bin, as they are not followed through on in anything resembling a timely manner. In many cases, they have Yet to be handed out, giving the appearance of blatant lying and ignoring of your own words.
Has CCP ever heard of the carrot/stick method of getting compliance from a balky employee, middle management, or segment of a customer base that's irate over some Great Idea shoved in their faces? If so you might want to give it a try. Reason? All you have offered in the last 12 months or so has been sticks. Customers WILL accept these changes as they are, nevermind any constructive criticism given when asked for feedback. CCP develops selective blindness and deafness when an idea pitch isn't given glowing reviews across the board. Customers WILL use the tools, settings, and changes put in place by fiat or they can shove off, HTFU, and be left behind in the great Vision of Evolution.
All stick, no carrot.
I will offer feedback to help tweak the new camera if I get some carrots.
1. Return of Region Description Flavor text as we, the customer base, were promised. 2. Putting in place the customizable overview icon selections that we, as a customer base, were promised. 3. Leaving the 'Classic/Legacy' camera as an option for the foreseeable future of Eve Online as an operational product in the MMO segment of gaming selections.
No carrots? Then I won't be around for much longer in the paying customer base to be a target for your sticks.
As someone who does have vertigo, understands how some graphic changes can trigger nausea for those not knowing about such things as vision defects or lingering effects from inner ear damage, those suggestions might be worth learning about. I will not hand them over without some frikken carrots, after the number of sticks CCP has bounced off my skull.
That's my offer, CCP Turtlepower, Team Psycho Sisters, and CCP as a whole.
You can do the right thing, or you can continue to carry the 'cold harsh cruel New Eden' attitude out of game, and into your interactions with your paying customer base. RPing only flies for so long in a business arrangement!
TL;DR Version:
Until CCP hands over some (already promised!) shinys and agrees to NOT axe the 'Classic/Legacy' camera, I won't help them tweak a single frikken thing with this new nausea ride camera.
>Jeven HouseBenyo's Mistress Keyboardist
Minny boat flyer, unofficial squeaky wheel.
'Game Ethics and Morality Monitor' I remember promises.
Snark at 11-24/7/365.25. Overshare? Yup.
Yes it's my fault. And if you don't staap it I'll do it again. ;-P
No you can't has my stuffs OR my SPs.
|
KIller Wabbit
Unleashed' Fury Imminent Threat
926
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 16:38:03 -
[122] - Quote
The new camera features add a lot for people doing video's. For the rest of us most of it is just annoying. Bring back the tracking camera.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26911
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 16:39:36 -
[123] - Quote
Ok. Reposting all comments from previous threads since none of the issues raised have really been addressed.
Could you explain what the purpose of this replacement is? What is the goal you're trying to achieve and how does the (presumed eventual) removal of the current camera achieve it? As long as it's opt-in, it's fine but for how long will it remain so? If the purpose is just to update the code, why wasn't a 1:1 functional replacement of the existing system the first thing you did?
GÇó First person is neat, but ultimately pointless. It also means you have to implement more control options to allow the exact same level of personalisation that everyone expects from an FPS. I know you guys hate options, but this is non-negotiable.
GÇó Tactical view is an interesting idea and I suppose it came out of the (very) old idea of having more of a 2D presentation of the battlefield, combined with the need to provide some way of controlling the future Fighter swarms. That old idea was cute; this implementation is not it due to how you keep losing track of where you are, and yet does not offer any more of an overview of the battlefield than what the current camera + tactical overlay offer. In fact, since it's so easy to move off of your own ship, it arguably offers less, even more so with the lacking persistence of settings others have already pointed out. If you want to keep this mode, the paradoxically right thing to do is to remove it and rework it from the ground up as something that doesn't even use a regular camera view. That might offer something better than what's currently available.
GÇó The orbital view could conceivably be interesting for movie makers if you stopped trying to make it so dynamic GÇö granted, at the moment, it's not actually dynamic, just heavily inebriated, uncontrollable, and not showing anything of interest. You might be able to catch a neat fly-by every now and then, but it's just too chaotic to be reliable and is almost completely useless for actual flying. You've offered more options to calm the thing down, but still not the ones that could make it properly useful: allow the user to turn off each and every automatic effect individually to the point where it reverts to the old system. I.e. no smoothing, no drifting, no bobbing, no auto-focus, no fov, very exact non-dynamic position of both your own ship and whatever you're looking at, linear and precise zoom, temporary quick-look, etc.
And again, this just leaves the core question unanswered: what are you actually trying to achieve? What are your use cases and how do the different camera modes correspond to and solve those use cases? How do you plan to handle the case GÇ£none of the aboveGÇ¥ in the long term? Asking for feedback is all well and good, but without knowing what you are actually aiming for, it is almost impossible to say whether what you're doing is of any use or any good.
That last point about picking GÇ£none of the aboveGÇ¥ is very very very important, because it seems to be the most common use case and one you have forgotten about completely. Right now, you're missing the option having the orbit camera, only without all the cumbersome controls and without the cinematic stuff. A view that just shows your ship and what you're looking at and nothing more fancy than that. Yes, this means you have to retain the old camera because it is simply better for almost every practical use than the fancy modes you seemingly want to replace it with. In doing so, you could even improve the current camera some more: switching between directions should be near-instant, very precise, and snap sharply with absolutely zero wobble GÇö i.e. the current tracking mode but without the smoothness. Such a camera mode is by far more critical and infinitely more important than any of the three options the new camera has because they it is absolutely irreplaceable for combat tasks such as manoeuvring and quick scanning. It also offers vastly better situational awareness than anything these new modes offer for the simple reason that it defaults to always showing your ship. With the old camera, you have to struggle a bit not to have your ship at the centre of the screen and show everything going on around it GÇö this is a good thing and it must be retained in some form. Anything that inverts the struggle is inherently bad and ill-conceived and must be removed.
So really, the most critical question that needs answering is how long we get to keep the option of keeping the old, working camera? Will it eventually be baked in and just be a fourth, no-nonsense camera mode, or will it eventually be dropped and its functionality lost? The previous threads offer tons of explanations of why the old camera must be retained and why the new ones are wholly insufficient to cover its use: for regular combat, for navigation, for fast manual control, and for anything related to scanning.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
|
Burk Nysar
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
17
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 16:45:34 -
[124] - Quote
Tracking camera needs to be able to be toggled on and off like old one (unless i am missing it). Having to hold c while clicking items in my overview is not ideal for d scanning a system. I had to opt out because it just doesn't work well for this.
Can't track anomalies from space anymore (to dscan miners / missioners in anomalies)
Would it be possible to allow users to click anomalies in the probe scanner window and track them that way? Similar to the way the tracking camera reacts when you click in the overview. That make life easier.
|
Esnaelc Sin'led
The Unchained Club
58
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 16:52:02 -
[125] - Quote
Tracking Camera toggle on/off AND tracking moving ship in warp.
Thanks. |
Valthax Kelkore
Damen LLC
10
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 16:58:08 -
[126] - Quote
As I said before I understand and appreciate the argument that the code needed to be updated but why not simply do that and leave the rest alone or phase in small changes on TQ over time? Why impose something like this that the majority of players apparently didn't ask for (or know was coming), don't want, and find counterproductive to playing the game?
If you can't make the camera system optional like you did with the legacy map and scanning, I'm gone. It's that simple. I'm not here for the 'ooooh shiny factor", I'm here to play the most difficult mmo in gaming history. But ultimately it's a consumer decision based on value for my money.
EVE is not a new and soon-to-be-released space game that's on the horizon. it's unique for so many reasons and will continue to be no matter what other games are released in the future.
Please stop trying to feel you need to compete with them, as it's proving to be nothing but detrimental to the experience of your product. |
Muon Farstrider
Partial Safety
8
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 17:05:14 -
[127] - Quote
As directed, copying my feedback from the other thread:
Overall: I will not be using the new camera in its current state. In particular, the issue below regarding the tactical overlay is a deal-breaker. I am indifferent to most of the new camera features anyway - I have absolutely no interest in 'cinematic' camera behavior or a first-person camera, for example - and so, for me, the new camera has no upsides and quite a few downsides.
Subjective: Playing around with the new camera initially made me feel a bit queasy - disabling dynamic FOV seems to have solved that. Not necessarily a *problem*, as everyone has different tolerance levels for that sort of thing, but a definite thing to watch out for. (I also disabled the dynamic FOV on general principle as I don't like games screwing around with my FOV - thank you for this option.)
Annoyance: Mouse sensitivity for vertical camera rotations feels significantly lower relative to that for horizontal camera rotations than previous (i.e. it takes more mouse movement to rotate a given angle vertically than horizontally), which is very jarring and annoying. Currently I cannot find a camera speed setting that provides acceptable rotation speeds in both directions at the same time - either horizontal rotation is too fast, or vertical rotation remains too slow. Please either revert or provide a toggle/slider.
Annoyance: Loss of the ability to toggle the tracking camera is quite annoying and makes quickly centering the camera on several targets much more cumbersome than before. I would please ask for this feature to return. (Also, I do not like how my ship is offset while tracking a target, and would prefer a toggle for this behavior.)
Annoyance: The continual sound in tactical camera mode is extremely annoying. The only way I have found to remove it is by dragging the master "UI Sound Level" slider to zero, which is obviously not a workable solution. Please remove this or add a dedicated slider to disable it.
Annoyance: When switching from orbit camera to tactical camera the zoom is always reset to the same level, regardless of the previous zoom level in orbit mode or the zoom level when last in tactical mode. Orbit mode remembers its last zoom level and returns to it when you switch back into orbit mode; for consistency tactical mode really ought to do the same.
Annoyance: The orbit and tactical camera modes have different 'default' states for the tactical overlay - orbit mode defaults to the tactical overlay off, and tactical mode defaults to it being on. The problem with this is that every time you undock, jump, or switch camera modes, the state of the tactical overlay resets to the default for that mode. This is highly annoying, because I prefer to leave the tactical overlay on 100% of the time, but would like to remain in orbit camera mode to avoid the possibility of accidentally detaching my camera from my ship (I've already done that a couple times just playing around, and the potential of doing so and losing track of my ship in the heat of combat makes me cringe). Thus, I am faced with the prospect of having to turn the tactical overlay back on every single time I undock or jump, which is highly annoying. If I have the tactical overlay on, it's because I *want* it on, and if I want it turned off, I'll *do it myself* - I don't want the game deciding for me. Please make the state of the tactical overlay persistent, or at least give a toggle (or give a toggle to disable the sound and the ability to detach the camera in tactical mode, so I can use that mode instead).
(Elaboration: for me, the camera is first and foremost a situational awareness tool. Its purpose is to allow me to instantly understand the types, positions, and motions of objects in the 3-d environment relative to my ship. The old camera, zoomed out with tactical overlay on, filled this purpose quite well. There are two critical elements - first, the tactical overlay MUST be on, as it allows me to instantly absorb the position of other objects relative to my ship. Second, the focus point of the camera must be ON my ship, as this not only always lets me keep track of where MY ship is in an often complex environment, but also ensures that the motions of other ships on my screen represent motions relative to MY ship rather than motions relative to whatever other point the camera is anchored on. No combination of the new camera modes matches the functionality of the old one here. Orbit cam keeps turning off the tactical overlay (absolutely unacceptable) and displacing my ship from the center of the screen. Meanwhile, in tactical cam it is far too easy to accidentally detach the camera from my ship, wrecking my situational awareness in a fight if I accidentally hit the right mouse button at the wrong moment.
Thus, to be usable, for me, either orbit cam must let me leave the tactical overlay on, or tactical cam must provide an option (button?) to lock the camera to my ship so that an accidental right-click will not shift it.)
Bug: Occasionally when undocking, the tactical overlay ends up in an odd combination of on and off - for example, in orbit mode the overlay displaying in space but the button not actually being pressed. When this happens I have to turn the tactical overlay off and on again a couple of times to get the state of the button and the state of the overlay in space to sync up again.
Bug: When switching from tactical mode into orbit mode, if the previous orbit mode zoom level was set very close to the ship *and* the ship is currently moving, the camera will rotate slightly as it zooms back in close to the ship. (It's almost acting like the anchor point of the camera is artifically being held stationary during the transition zoom, so as the ship moves away from that point the camera has to rotate to follow it.) This results in an uncommanded change in camera angle once the zoom finishes, which while generally small is still annoying. |
Garrik Doran
Dead Star Syndicate
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 17:05:25 -
[128] - Quote
Gave it the benefit of the doubt, configured it so it felt "ok."
Stumbled, Bumbled, Made rookie mistakes and died in a fire.
Camera craps its proverbial pants (spins 360* and zooms out to practically the next system) when your Pod launches, which turned chosen warp object into a mad scramble for a celestial on the overview.
+1 on the lack of tracking toggle, when this feature originally became available it revolutionized D'scan and made 5% a viable angle. My meat-hooks are not so good with fine motor control at times and the hotkey is adding clunk and the need to reset your tracking target which takes my meathook away from more valuable hotkeys.
Loss of tracking on "warp state" is unacceptable. Removing ease of access features introduced in days gone by is back peddling on your entire "little things" initiative.
I will endeavour to get extremely drunk and try it again. Because drunk PVP is best PVP and will undoubtedly turn up some more things that are cattywampus with this thing.
(stealth insert: please put the damn D-scan button back on the right side of the window)
/end bittervet
-Garrik
Reinforcement timers are like getting frisky with your girl, only to get walked in on by her old man.
|
DJB16
DJB Alpha
14
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 17:27:28 -
[129] - Quote
first
THAT NOISE ON TACTICAL CAMERA MODE THAT NOISE ON TACTICAL CAMERA MODE THAT NOISE ON TACTICAL CAMERA MODE let us turn that ********************** thing off without turning off ALL sound (u can include any noise from new map etc)
second save tactical overlay state between jumps/dockings/relogs/camera modes
|
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
309
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 17:27:45 -
[130] - Quote
Player feedback seems to be pretty consistent and overwhelming on this "feature" aside from the occasional "clap clap first person is fun!" yet the only dev response I've seen thus far is telling ppl how to turn the thing off. Any chance we'll get to hear something of substance?
What is the intent of disabling the ability to track targets into warp?
Why have you added additional clicking to use the tracking camera?
Why use the drifting unpredictable response curves to camera zoom and movement instead of the lovely immediate linear response we get with the old camera?
Why remove the old camera completely? It hasn't been changed in years and the future of eve is unlikely to demand changes unless there is something you're not telling us. Are you just trying to force things like more difficult dscanning and making it easier for people to warp away and escape?
Are these all things you did for a reason? If so why and what is your response to the player feedback you're receiving on the matter?
Personally my tolerance and general attitude in the matter could be altered dramatically if we were given some sort logic to support these changes. Instead we're just left gagging on the lot of it. (unless your response is to say that "yes you want to make it harder to dscan and make it easier for ppl to escape" in that case )
Daemun of Khanid
|
|
Raido Kudonen
EVE University Ivy League
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 17:30:10 -
[131] - Quote
Tracking camera changes are awful.
First, the loss of toggle is extremely inconvenient and needs to die in a fire.
Second, removing the inability to follow ships in warp is a significant nerf to people who scout, solo PvP, or do literally anything else requiring the ability to follow people who might run away. Why on earth would you do that? People who scout and solo provide a disproportionate amount of content.
Third, when tying the track command to the overview, you apparently disabled tracking celestials while in warp, making it impossible to scan belts, FW plexes, stations, etc while warping (again, a core aspect of good dscan usage while scouting).
In short, the tracking camera changes are awful. I will not be using the new camera until the tracking changes are reverted and the grid overlay is given a separate toggle as well. |
Sola Atruin
Mutant Space Kittens
3
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 17:44:14 -
[132] - Quote
I was pretty confused yesterday. I didn't knew there was a new key bind for "Track".
But why should there be one if there is already a "Toggle point camera to selected item" key bind?
I opted out for now.
As already mentioned before by other players:
a.) Tracking Camera toggle on/off b.) Tracking moving ship in warp
Best regards,
Sola Atruin |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
13563
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 17:51:28 -
[133] - Quote
Hello CCP.
I'm not having too many problems with the new camera, then again I wasn't in a big fleet yesterday, did some minor stuff, and later some pve. I never used camera tracking much so that change doesn't bother me, but it bothers WHOLE LOT of my corp mates.
It kind of strikes me as throwing the baby out with the bath water ie in a move to make this new things you all didn't even consider the really great aspects of the current camera system.
Like the rest, I' too would like to know they whys and wherefores of this. It's starting to look a whole lot like Unified Inventory Debacle and the icon mess (to a lesser extent). Updating things is fine, but many times it seems the way you all do things are rather haphazard. |
Raphendyr Nardieu
Unpublished Chapter Suddenly Content
66
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 17:55:09 -
[134] - Quote
Few thinks about marguee feature:
I think that ctrl+marquee (lock) should only lock targets that have symbl in space (e.g. if you have friends hidden, you won't lock them). Also this might be good for alt+marquee (look at) as I end up looking at drone every time when I try to look at enemy ship.
shift+marquee probably should work as it does, so you can more easily select objects which don't have currently symbol in space.
If you would prefer cirrent mechanic for new players, I think settings option would be nice ("[ ] select only visible objects with marquee"). |
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
313
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 17:57:21 -
[135] - Quote
"The initial driver for this substantial chunk of work was the identified need for a tactical camera that wasnGÇÖt necessarily attached to a space entity all the timeGÇöin preparation of the Capital rework and more coming in the EVE Online: Citadel Expansion. When we started digging into the code, we quickly realized that the old camera wouldnGÇÖt be a suitable foundation."
If trying to add new things breaks old things then you are doing it wrong. I recommend that you wait to implement new "features" until you can do so without breaking whats already in the game. Pushing bad code into the client for the sake of deadlines is not good practice and this new camera is a glaring example of that fact.
Which do you think is more important for the masses? New fancy mmo style aoe effects for capitals or a functional and polished camera? How many pilots are ever going to even SEE the new capital gameplay? Is it really worth destroying something as ingrained and perfect as the old camera just to make a camera that more suits your new capital rework? I don't think so and I think that most of EvE would agree.
Anyway I grow weary of ranting so I'll step away for now. I think the contents of this thread speaks for itself. I just hope someone is listening.
Daemun of Khanid
|
Josef Djugashvilis
3268
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 18:33:52 -
[136] - Quote
I do not suppose I shall ever really use the new camera options - I tend to stick with what I know - a combination of stupidity and laziness on my part.
But I applaud CCP for providing more options.
This is not a signature.
|
z Granite
z Mining Corp
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 18:42:31 -
[137] - Quote
Tried the new camera.
Found it to be cumbersome in operation and not user friendly. The only buttons I should have to keep pushing is "Weapons" to select and "Fire". Without the constant tracking on, it is my opinon that the new camera is FAIL.
As stated in another thread, "I am not here to make "movies" or take "screenshots", I am here to kill some SOB before that same SOB kills me." I am finding it completely unusable at this time. If I click (only one click) on something on my overview, I want to see it before, I shoot it!
The new camera seems not to be fluid in control and the drift is terrible. I will go back to using the old camera till I am forced into changing and if it is not right at that time, I can take my money elsewhere. |
Manic Velocity
The Corp I Just Left
148
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 19:37:56 -
[138] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:I do not suppose I shall ever really use the new camera options - I tend to stick with what I know
According to the devblog, by this time next month you won't have a choice between the two. It will no longer be "the new camera", it will just be "the camera".
@manicvelocity
|
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
299
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 20:03:08 -
[139] - Quote
Manic Velocity wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:I do not suppose I shall ever really use the new camera options - I tend to stick with what I know According to the devblog, by this time next month you won't have a choice between the two. It will no longer be "the new camera", it will just be "the camera".
If this is the case, and they don't new code an "old camera" setting, then it's going to be a deal breaker for me. I really really really don't want to stop flying, but the nausea and frustration simply won't leave me a choice... and that will make me sad.
GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½
|
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
307
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 20:04:56 -
[140] - Quote
Trying out the new Camera now.... Forcing myself to try and stick with it as I'm expecting I'll soon have no choice. As it stands the first mode seems ok at a quick go, 2 is annoying me already and I don't really have much use for 3...
CCP - is there any reason you can't just leave both cameras in game? There is clearly the market for it, it's already coded, it works.... Ok it might be in the future that it won't work too well with the planned changes around carrier drone control but at this point it's not your problem. |
|
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
3542
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 20:14:59 -
[141] - Quote
What I like:
While I don't have much use for it, the tactical camera seems to be solid.
What I don't like:
The lack of autotracking (seriously, who let this get through???)
The lack of any sort of tracking on anomalies or bookmarks
This rubber band quality of the orbit camera when I select something and push the tracking button. Zoom in! No slowly zoom out! The cameraman is drunk!
What I think is useless fluff:
First person. Seriously. In a game where every weapon (except bombs) swivel and nearly everything involves orbiting, your target is never in front of you and this field of view is just a joke. It's mildly entertaining for a quick joy ride flying an interceptor around an ice belt or station, but then you go back to actually playing the game and turn it off.
To sum up:
In the interest of cinematics and shiny stuff, you've removed (well, hidden with the intent to remove) what was probably one of the least complained-about features in Eve. I'm truly baffled why this seemed a good use of resources.
Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
|
Orravan
Aideron Robotics
34
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 20:18:16 -
[142] - Quote
If the old camera is removed, that will be a heavy incentive to stop playing Eve for me. It may sounds harsh and overreacting, but as long as you're not playing Eve to stay docked, and plan to fight, the new camera is just unpractical as f*ck, and useless.
As a fighting capsuleer, I don't care about cinematic effects. What I need is a simple, sober, effective camera I can use to position myself and assess my surroundings in the least disruptive way. The new camera isn't providing any of that, automatically making it a huge failure for the kind of game that is Eve.
I'm sure it's a delight for people enjoying peaceful mining or shooting a promotional video for their corp. It isn't for litterally everything and everyone else.
I'm all for innovation and modernisation, and that new camera has a lot of potential, but you simply don't remove something that exists, that people uses, and that is highly efficient and vital to the very core gameplay of Eve. You just don't mess up so lightheartedly with something as vital as the camera.
People don't want tweaks. They want the same exact camera behaviours we had for 13 years that proved successful. There's litterally no f*cking reason to remove the old camera behaviour when you add more functionality. None.
It's not about nostalgia, it's not about habits made hard to change. It's about sheer practicality.
What's coming now is worse by several orders of magnitude than the introduction of the mandatory Captain's Quarter -- that you were once forced to eventually make optional because just like that new camera, it was a huge loss of functionality rather than a gain. If you really intend to force the adoption of that new camera without also keeping the old, simple and effective tool we had, I think you're up for a very bad time in the coming weeks/months.
I think most people, including myself, are glad you try out new things and deploy more functionalities. The only thing they ask is to preserve what they had before that worked fine.
Finicky diplomat. Suicidal explorer. Faithful ally.
|
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
3544
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 20:33:01 -
[143] - Quote
To sum up a lot of sentiment here: I really want to know how many people told CCP "this tracking camera is terrible and needs to go." I'm guessing that number is very near to zero.
Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
|
Jeven HouseBenyo
Fifty Shades of Funkyness LLC
325
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 20:33:31 -
[144] - Quote
Orravan wrote:If the old camera is removed, that will be a heavy incentive to stop playing Eve for me. It may sounds harsh and overreacting, but as long as you're not playing Eve to stay docked, and plan to fight, the new camera is just unpractical as f*ck, and useless.
As a fighting capsuleer, I don't care about cinematic effects. What I need is a simple, sober, effective camera I can use to position myself and assess my surroundings in the least disruptive way. The new camera isn't providing any of that, automatically making it a huge failure for the kind of game that is Eve.
I'm sure it's a delight for people enjoying peaceful mining or shooting a promotional video for their corp. It isn't for litterally everything and everyone else.
I'm all for innovation and modernisation, and that new camera has a lot of potential, but you simply don't remove something that exists, that people uses, and that is highly efficient and vital to the very core gameplay of Eve. You just don't mess up so lightheartedly with something as vital as the camera.
People don't want tweaks. They want the same exact camera behaviours we had for 13 years that proved successful. There's litterally no f*cking reason to remove the old camera behaviour when you add more functionality. None.
It's not about nostalgia, it's not about habits made hard to change. It's about sheer practicality.
What's coming now is worse by several orders of magnitude than the introduction of the mandatory Captain's Quarter -- that you were once forced to eventually make optional because just like that new camera, it was a huge loss of functionality rather than a gain. If you really intend to force the adoption of that new camera without also keeping the old, simple and effective tool we had, I think you're up for a very bad time in the coming weeks/months.
Don't get me wrong, it's not that the new camera is bad, it's just that it doesn't do the job we expect from it. I think most people, including myself, are glad you try out new things and deploy more functionalities. The only thing they ask is to preserve what they had before that worked fine.
The bold and underlined areas for easy finding.
No. As an industrialist that tends to live a lot in asteroid belts happily chewing on space rocks, this new camera is the absolute pits. The wandering drunken camera guy running that video lens makes it very difficult to know Where the trouble is incoming from, rather important to know. Makes lining up between yummy rocks an exercise in 'pontoon in a Great Lakes storm system' difficult. The whole 'motion of the ocean' as the image strays wherever is nausea inducing.
So if this was meant to be some great camera gift to miners and promo video capture individuals, don't think this is helping out the rock junkies anymore than it's 'helping' out the combat pilots who can no longer track me as I warp from their attempted gank. (part of the challenge! warp to one point, then switch and warp to another before their backup arrives! a game of cat and mouse just loaded the dice for the mice on the run)
Leave the old camera as an option CCP, while you tweak your little hearts out with the new one. Choices are always a plus for both sides.
>Jeven's Owner
Minny boat flyer, unofficial squeaky wheel.
'Game Ethics and Morality Monitor' I remember promises.
Snark at 11-24/7/365.25. Overshare? Yup.
Yes it's my fault. And if you don't staap it I'll do it again. ;-P
No you can't has my stuffs OR my SPs.
|
Finnbarr Galedeep
The Majestic Duck
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 20:53:47 -
[145] - Quote
- Zooming and rotating the camera lags behind my mouse.
- The zoom and movement is not consistent. There is an acceleration when if you move the mouse or scroll quickly that is impossible to predict.
- Tracking is absent or completely broken. I cannot track ships in warp, and cannot leave tracking on and click through the overview to track ships.
|
Blood Spine
Infinity Engine Sleeping Dragons
31
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 21:03:52 -
[146] - Quote
Nope turned off as soon as I realised there was an option to turn it off flaming horrid stop wasting dev time on stuff like this and give the extra man power to things that actually need to be fixed or things that we defiantly dont want broken on launch (Like this horrid camera) |
Sanders Schmittlaub
New Jovian Exploration Department A Band Apart.
18
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 21:52:34 -
[147] - Quote
Pros: Its pretty. I can see a lot of very nice videos being shot with it.
Neutrals: There seems to be no major changes to Tactical Camera, so it works as well as ever. Possible way to increase functionality: move the distance meter onto whatever you're looking at instead of keeping it locked on your ship. First Person View is pretty, but doesn't seem to have a ton of usability. Possible way to increase functionality: make it so you can spin the camera a ways by dragging the mouse across the screen while clicked.
Cons: Both Ship Speed Offset and Dynamic Field of View makes me feel genuinely queasy. Responsiveness does not feel the same - feels decreased and somewhat laggy (willing to overlook, but worth mentioning). No automatic tracking camera. Its super useful, and the new 'track' command thingy is awful. Track command needs an option to disable the funky zoom thing it does when you use it.
I feel the new camera is a bit of a regression from the old one - all the functionality that the old camera has simply doesn't seem to be in the new camera. When I started a fight the other day, I could not get the camera pointed in the right direction, and when I did, finally manage to get it turned the right way, it was swaying and bobbing like a cork in a hurricane. Luckily it was a 'fire four rounds, collect loot, warp off' fight and I didn't need the camera, but it was still a longer fight for me to get looking the right direction than the actual engagement. The Tracking Camera HAS to be reintroduced without the funky zoom thingy for me to consider permanently changing over.
Conclusion: I've had to go back to the old camera over the tracking camera. Luckily the queasiness goes away when I uncheck both dynamic field of view and ship speed offset. This feature needs work before it is implemented permanently. |
SoulLess Zealot
IceBox Inc.
38
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 23:05:57 -
[148] - Quote
I just want to beat a dead horse here and say that you need to fix the tracking camera issue .. its pretty important that this gets resolved .. like imperative ! .. cant believe you even bothered to switch this to opt out ..just saying, somebody needs to be fired ... and i am usually a nice guy
the new features are neat tho, good job !
... btw i did opt opt see you in a month , ..or maybe not its that bad. |
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
325
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 23:10:10 -
[149] - Quote
SoulLess Zealot wrote:I just want to beat a dead horse here and say that you need to fix the tracking camera issue .. its pretty important that this gets resolved .. like imperative ! .. cant believe you even bothered to switch this to opt out ..just saying, somebody needs to be fired ... and i am usually a nice guy the new features are neat tho, good job ! ... btw i did opt opt see you in a month , ..or maybe not its that bad.
I don't think it's beating a dead horse at all. More people need to share their opinions on the matter. The content of the general message has been established but letter still needs all the signatures it can get.
Daemun of Khanid
|
Sergey Hawk
The Sith Syndicate REFORD
4
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 23:25:08 -
[150] - Quote
I absolutely do not like the new camera. It seems that the people who came up with this new camera has never played EVE, did not participate in PvP or PvE battles or never undock from Jita IV - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant.
new camera cons: - no automatic tracking camera what makes battles and d-scanning painful - very often the ship flies off the screen or hidden behind the channels / scanner / overview windows - ships and other objects appear more blurry when zooming - stars and other far objects have motion blur when the camera is rotated and i hate motion blur
new camera pros: - we can make an epic screenshot, where the planet looks like an egg or a football http://i.imgur.com/lBvrwad.png
That was sarcasm. In fact I do not see any pros to use this new camera and i'm not willing to struggle with it. Sometimes old code is much better than new one.
--
May the Force be with You
|
|
ArmEagle Kusoni
Knights of Nii The 20 Minuters
43
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 23:32:11 -
[151] - Quote
Either disable it completely or make it an option. But Markee should not select missiles (/bombs?).
And no idea whether it is related. But I noticed that broadcast target markers sometimes keep stuck in the same position on the screen. Possibly even 'duplicates'. Clicking them makes them go away and actual targets will appear (again). |
ArmEagle Kusoni
Knights of Nii The 20 Minuters
43
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 23:35:06 -
[152] - Quote
Oh. And when entering warp while you had the tracking camera active sometimes makes the camera misbehave. |
Officer Pressly
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 23:36:44 -
[153] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote: GÇóI canGÇÖt track ships once they enter the "in warp" state. This is still being discussed. Ultimately it is a game design decision.
Can you elaborate on this game design decision to remove what was a very valuable tool to a vast majority of players?
I'm struggling to figure why this was removed, when it was so obviously a boon in chasing people during PvP. The ability to track people as they warped away was resoundingly well-received when it was introduced back in 2012. Removing it is simply not an improvement by any stretch of the imagination. [/quote]
Some Saudi Arabian prince was having a hard time in pvp, and are paying CCP tonas of oil money to have this done. No other reason is valid. I'm pretty much not playing the game anymore, if this is how it will be. Got better things to do..
|
Chatarina DeBeers
Lost Valkyries
9
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 23:37:42 -
[154] - Quote
Tried this feature today stricly involuntarily. Overall I like it, except one glaring thing: The lack of auto-tracking ships and objects. That's when I immediately found a way to turn the feature off.
Holy crap, auto-tracking is sure a feature that is extremely good to have, and extremely frustrating to not have. Not even just for tracking ships, but for simple things like gaining focus on a wormhole or can you need to bookmark. Not being able to quickly find that object, wherever it is hiding in space... It's so frustrating I'm at loss for words. In fact I nearly found another game to play this morning because of it.
As for combat, without seeing where ships are going, it's nigh impossible to A) give pursuit or B) know where bigger enemy went to lay a trap, because you always have to make two extra actions for every new celestial you're chasing him, or trying to dodge your follower. So whichever one you choose, you'll just end up more frustrated, and possibly dead, if not completely bored because this effectively kills chasing.
Also it's nigh impossible to click on a ship in space this way, since it will be all over the place. You are then forced to use the overview. Not that using the overview is bad in itself, but forcing players to do it is just bad design. Again this leads to frustration. Entering combat while tracking the other ship now requires extra micro, which is sure to make the whole ordeal less fun.
tl;dr without auto-tracking, the game gets really frustrating because you can't know where anything is or is going in space anymore. Please give back auto-tracking. While I'm at it, give back tab too. It was such a great tool to quickly clean up the windows to do stuff like PI. Please stop fixing things that aren't broken! |
Ronnie Cordova
Valkyries of Night Of Sound Mind
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 01:31:48 -
[155] - Quote
Thanks very much for your work on this.
I just want to reiterate the need for being able to track where a ship warps to. Unfortunately, this is a large part of the way I play the game, and I will not be able to help test the new camera until this feature is added.
Thanks! |
Ziggs Boson
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 01:45:18 -
[156] - Quote
I do not feel as strongly about auto-tracking vs. holding C and tracking. It is not terribly inefficient and prevents accidental tracks in the heat of the moment. However, not being able to track a warping entity is silly and makes it far to easy to escape.
Besides this there are other things that ought to be improved: 1. Tactical camera should have the option to change where the distance circles are centered on. 2. Tactical camera should have a way to better emphasize your ship given that you can easily pan away from it. 3. When your tracked object leaves grid, the camera control goes crazy and starts spinning around. It should just stop moving. 4. You should be able to select where your ships slides to when the camera positions it out of the way of the tracked target. Alternatively, have options to center both ships together or take into account the window layout as optimally as possible so that both ships remain visible. |
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
326
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 01:45:50 -
[157] - Quote
Officer Pressly wrote:CCP Turtlepower wrote: GÇóI canGÇÖt track ships once they enter the "in warp" state. This is still being discussed. Ultimately it is a game design decision.
Can you elaborate on this game design decision to remove what was a very valuable tool to a vast majority of players? I'm struggling to figure why this was removed, when it was so obviously a boon in chasing people during PvP. The ability to track people as they warped away was resoundingly well-received when it was introduced back in 2012. Removing it is simply not an improvement by any stretch of the imagination.
Some Saudi Arabian prince was having a hard time in pvp, and are paying CCP tonas of oil money to have this done. No other reason is valid. I'm pretty much not playing the game anymore, if this is how it will be. Got better things to do.. [/quote]
Out of curiosity, where did that CCP Turtle quote come from? We're constantly asked to post in the official feedback thread yet when they bother responding it usually seems to be any where but here.
EDIT: NM found it a few pages back, I guess I just failed to read through the whole thread. :) My fail.
Daemun of Khanid
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
14103
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 01:49:15 -
[158] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote: Out of curiosity, where did that CCP Turtle quote come from? We're constantly asked to post in the official feedback thread yet when they bother responding it usually seems to be any where but here.
here
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
|
PANZER1233000
SUPREME LEAGUE KILLER Dream Fleet
34
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 04:19:30 -
[159] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:With the February release (deployed on February 9), we have also introduced a new default camera. The previous camera was based on quite old code and was due for a rewrite. Now we have a system where multiple, special purposed cameras can happily live side by side to give you the best view possible of New Eden! Read all (and watch the video) about the new camera in CCP Optimal's latest blog Unboxing the new Camera in EVE Online. Make another **** if you give me chek box - don't try new ****. Why CCP turned away from old ***, and make raw content?
|
Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
235
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 06:17:24 -
[160] - Quote
Dunno if it was mentioned, but the new camera does not play nice with extreme FPS drops. And when I say does not play nice it means you are better off logging out or trying to switch to the old camera, because controls get stuck and you are left with an eternally spinning camera (very fast spinning mind you, like a turn a second).
I tried to use the new camera on SiSi on mass tests, and each time it was the same - when FPS drops to singular digits, camera controls go out the window. |
|
SCV'Argos
TheMurk
8
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 06:43:06 -
[161] - Quote
I suggest the following improvements to 1st person camera:
1) +Rolling hotkeys 2) A,D turn the ship only horizontally without rolling it 3) Middle mouse button (when holding it) moves the centre of the screen and turns the ship.
I don't know how will Valkyrie's piloting work, but I suggest you peek in the game called starconflict, they've made good piloting mechanics IMO. Please don't blame me for mentioning another game, it's not even close to rivalry with eve. |
Sergey Hawk
The Sith Syndicate REFORD
5
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 07:30:21 -
[162] - Quote
Another downside of the new camera - with the new camera we can not set custom position for tracking objects
Every pilot create own windows arrangement and sometimes we need to offset camera AND MOVE tracking position from the center to ensure constant visibility of tracking object. Ideally, I need ability to set camera offset for both axes (X, Y) and i want to choose between center and custom tracking position. And if I have already started talking about offsets. Pls make an option in game menu to apply camera offset only for ship in space. I don't need camera offset for fullscreen maps.
May the Force be with You
|
SCV'Argos
TheMurk
8
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 07:49:47 -
[163] - Quote
A little glitch. You "look at" some target, then it explodes; if, that moment, you manually switch to another target and start looking at it, the camera still returns to your own ship after 2 seconds delay after the explosion of the 1st target, and you have to press "look at" again. I think the camera shouldn't return to your ship if it's focused on a new target. |
Leonardo Adami
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
121
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 08:08:46 -
[164] - Quote
So I was warping around today and the nausea thing people are talking about seems like some sort of bug. What happens or at least what seemed to happen to me earlier was after landing out of warp all of space seemed to stretch. Plants looked like ovals instead of round. When you pan the camera it looked sorta like a focal point in the center then things on the sides stretched in a way that made you dizzy. After a couple session changes it fixed it self and that stretch effect seemed to go away. |
Josef Djugashvilis
3268
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 08:41:38 -
[165] - Quote
Manic Velocity wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:I do not suppose I shall ever really use the new camera options - I tend to stick with what I know According to the devblog, by this time next month you won't have a choice between the two. It will no longer be "the new camera", it will just be "the camera".
Dang! that is not good...
This is not a signature.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26932
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 10:50:21 -
[166] - Quote
Manic Velocity wrote:According to the devblog, by this time next month you won't have a choice between the two. It will no longer be "the new camera", it will just be "the camera". Holy ****. I didn't even see that.
CCP, listen very carefully now:
You CANNOT remove the option for the old, working camera without having fully and completely recreated every last aspect of it in your new system. All of it. No exception. No Gǣkind of the same, butGǪGǥ, and definitely no Gǣit's better now becauseGǪGǥ.
It must have every singe option and functionality that the old camera has: the direct and precise movement; the simple look-at and tracking functionality; the ability to track warps; the ability to simply rclick-unhook the camera from its current direction and then have it immediately snap back.
If you remove it, there are no two ways about it and no delicate way of saying it: you are stupid. You are incompetent. You are not actually listening to the wave of feedback you're getting, and any attempt at claiming otherwise is a lie. Stop it. Step back, swallow your pride, stop blubbering, and give your customers the one thing they're asking for: a properly working camera. Remember what happens every time you have an GÇ£awesomeGÇ¥ idea that doesn't work in practice, and realise that this is one of those moments. Again.
Jesus fuckign christ. Why does this keep happening?! How are you so incapable of learning such a ridiculously simple lesson?! WTF is wrong with you?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
|
Manfred Mann
Death Row inc
3
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 11:03:59 -
[167] - Quote
Pros:
It looks good and i can see it working well for video makers.
Cons:
It is NO good for actually playing eve!
What needs fixing:
Bring back the old tracking camera. This is such an important feature that with out it my style of play is made so awkward that if this camera is forced on us as it is I probably wont bother logging in anymore, Yes its that much of a game breaker for me. Who ever came up with this new camera does not play eve or they would know that being able to quickly d scan objects and track ships in to warp is a must.
The camera is sluggish. yes you can increase its speed but why is the horizontel speed faster than the vertical speed movement, again who ever came up with this doesnt play eve or they would know that while in a fight I need to move my camera up and down just as much as i do side to side. We need both these speed to be consistant. As it is my ability to manualy fly is made so much harder that again if forced on us I probably just wont bother logging in anymore.
Finaly a word of advice for CCP (that is if they even bother reading this) You ask for feed back on the new camera so we try and help and we give you this feed back, for months we tell you give us the old tracking camera back as its a game breaker as it is..... you do nothing! We tell you the camera is sluggish we need it like to move like the old camera..... you dont anything! You then make the camera opt out, everyone opts out and people stop giving you feed back BECAUSE YOU HAVNT LISTENED TO A DAMN THING WE HAVE SAID FOR MONTHS!!! You need to start listening more to the people that actually play this game or im sad to say i dont see much of a future Eve. |
Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2312
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 11:05:28 -
[168] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:GÇóThe new camera makes me nauseous. Some users have reported that un-ticking dynamic field of view and increasing camera speed in general options reduced their nausea. We are looking into other reasons for nausea as well, so If you can give us any more info on when and why you feel nausea during gaming, in EVE or in other games, that would be hugely appreciated! It is the inertial that makes you nauseous, do you even listen to what people write? Just get rid of that god damn inertial when you zoom or pan or move the camera and it will be alright. You already realized your mistake in the new map, where, after months of beating your thick heads, you removed the zoom/panning inertial. Now do the same right now and don't make us players waste the same amount of time running after your teams with clubs.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
|
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
444
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 11:37:41 -
[169] - Quote
The new camera works great, especially the first-person version. I also didn't expect CCP to give us an easy method to switch between camera-options. What I expected was some kind of crude drop-down menu from the old tactical view button or something similar inane.
But welp, CCP actually did better then I expected. I'm sure whatever problems are still there can be ironed out fast. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
14111
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 11:49:40 -
[170] - Quote
patch notes wrote:Tracking of ships that are warping away is now maintained until the tracked ship leaves the grid
much better thank you.
however if the tracking is initiated after the "warping" commences but while the ship is still in grid it will not track, effectively anything smaller than a cruiser will remain nigh impossible to track.
still going to have this turned off until it is as functional as the old one.
im not that bothered by c to track, it means i now have to make a decision to track something but i should be allowed to track anything on grid (regardless of its state) if im quick enough to do it.
frigs and desies are already damn hard to do this with, why mechanically stop us from doing so if we can?
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
|
|
|
CCP Turtlepower
C C P C C P Alliance
261
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 11:52:01 -
[171] - Quote
Hello again,
Just a quick update from us. We have released the following fixes and tweaks at todayGÇÖs downtime:
GÇóFixed an issue where players could get stuck in the space scene when docked, after using first person mode. GÇóFixed turrets not being visible on other ships. GÇóFixed an issue that could cause a strange "fishbowl" FOV after jumping. GÇóAnomalies and bookmarks can now be tracked. GÇóTracking of ships that are warping away is now maintained until the tracked ship leaves the grid (yay!). However, ships that have already initiated a warp command still cannot be tracked by other players; we will fix this ASAP.
Fly dangerously, CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters |
|
Khan Wrenth
Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation
419
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 11:52:42 -
[172] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Manic Velocity wrote:According to the devblog, by this time next month you won't have a choice between the two. It will no longer be "the new camera", it will just be "the camera". Holy ****. I didn't even see that. CCP, listen very carefully now: You CANNOT remove the option for the old, working camera without having fully and completely recreated every last aspect of it in your new system. All of it. No exception. No Gǣkind of the same, butGǪGǥ, and definitely no Gǣit's better now becauseGǪGǥ. It must have every singe option and functionality that the old camera has: the direct and precise movement; the simple look-at and tracking functionality; the ability to track warps; the ability to simply rclick-unhook the camera from its current direction and then have it immediately snap back; always focusing on your ship etc etc etc. All the things people have been telling you for ages now. If you remove it, there are no two ways about it and no delicate way of saying it: you are stupid. You are incompetent. You are not actually listening to the wave of feedback you're getting, and any attempt at claiming otherwise is a lie. Stop it. Step back, swallow your pride, stop blubbering, and give your customers the one thing they're asking for: a properly working camera. Remember what happens every time you have an GǣawesomeGǥ idea that doesn't work in practice, and realise that this is one of those moments. Again. Jesus ******* christ. Why does this keep happening?! How are you so incapable of learning such a ridiculously simple lesson?! WTF is wrong with you? Liked, and not empty quoting.
Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
14111
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 11:55:49 -
[173] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote: GÇóTracking of ships that are warping away is now maintained until the tracked ship leaves the grid (yay!). However, ships that have already initiated a warp command still cannot be tracked by other players; we will fix this ASAP.
grand so, thanks for the update (who do i label the bottle to?)
any update about the right click freelook?
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
|
Cade Kenobi
Death Row inc
8
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 11:57:23 -
[174] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Hello again,
Just a quick update from us. We have released the following fixes and tweaks at todayGÇÖs downtime:
GÇóFixed an issue where players could get stuck in the space scene when docked, after using first person mode. GÇóFixed turrets not being visible on other ships. GÇóFixed an issue that could cause a strange "fishbowl" FOV after jumping. GÇóAnomalies and bookmarks can now be tracked. GÇóTracking of ships that are warping away is now maintained until the tracked ship leaves the grid (yay!). However, ships that have already initiated a warp command still cannot be tracked by other players; we will fix this ASAP.
Fly dangerously, CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
What we really want to know is are you going to give us the tracking camera back as that is the main game breaker for most of us? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26942
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 12:10:04 -
[175] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:GÇóTracking of ships that are warping away is now maintained until the tracked ship leaves the grid (yay!). However, ships that have already initiated a warp command still cannot be tracked by other players; we will fix this ASAP. That leavesGǪ
GÇó Keeping the ship centred. GÇó Adjusting the tracking point. GÇó Tracking toggle. GÇó Look toggle. GÇó No camera movement without input while looking. GÇó Linear zoom. GÇó Linear (and equal on every axis) orbiting speed. GÇó Instant reset GÇó RClick-slewing with snap-back GÇó Manual R+L-Drag zoom and FOV adjustment
GǪjust off the top of my head and testing around a station. I'm sure others can expand on it. When will that functionality be added?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
|
1LT Jenkins
Top Gear Construction
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 12:12:01 -
[176] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Hello again,
Just a quick update from us. We have released the following fixes and tweaks at todayGÇÖs downtime:
GÇóFixed an issue where players could get stuck in the space scene when docked, after using first person mode. GÇóFixed turrets not being visible on other ships. GÇóFixed an issue that could cause a strange "fishbowl" FOV after jumping. GÇóAnomalies and bookmarks can now be tracked. GÇóTracking of ships that are warping away is now maintained until the tracked ship leaves the grid (yay!). However, ships that have already initiated a warp command still cannot be tracked by other players; we will fix this ASAP.
Fly dangerously, CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters Ok now just gives back the old tracking camera and fix the lag when panning the camera and we'll nearly be at a camera that is fit for use or you could just let us keep the old camera as a fourth mode along the three new modes.
Seriously CCP how many people do you need to tell you that new camera is just not as good as the old one. |
Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2314
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 12:20:43 -
[177] - Quote
When I look at a bookmark with C and delete that bookmark, the camera resets to my ship -- inside my ship actually-- and creates spastic flashing. Same goes for anomalies: I press C and click on the anom, the camera looks at the anom, I remove anoms from my in-space view and the camera resets into my ship and flashes like crazy.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
|
Hold Alpha
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 12:24:17 -
[178] - Quote
Any chance that Combat Anomalies could be tracked from the on board scanner? Otherwise the feature is kind of useless. |
6r33dy
owls.tech
74
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 13:06:37 -
[179] - Quote
Hello, when I trying to lock multiple targets (Ctrl+mouse drag) it locks everything dependless of overview/bracket settings, and locks everything, including wrecks, ore asteroids etc. I assume it should select what to lock according to bracket settings. I do not want to lock ore or wrecks when I do not even see it in my current overview >__<
Sorry for my english.
The message above is random sequence of letters, please do not try to find any sense in it.
|
Elmis
The ill-advised Hermit Collective
7
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 13:09:15 -
[180] - Quote
Most of this has already been said before, but since you asked for feedback...
I am really not a fan of the new camera. It is not intuitive, it is fiddly, and it seems to have a mind of its own.
I much prefer the more linear zoom of the old vs the new. I would like a slider to adjust this if possible.
In the old camera you could zoom in quite close by default. With the new camera you stop further back from the object you are looking at, then you have to use ALT Zoom to get in closer. Why?
By setting the speed of the new camera to around 2.5x I could get it to feel somewhat like the old one when left click panning.
The dynamic field of view is hit and miss. Sometimes it gives you a cinematic experience that looks cool, other times big objects you pass by or rotate around seem to be thrown disjointedly across your screen. I turned it off.
With the old Camera if I click "look at" on an object, then pan my view around - it stays at the angle and zoom I set it at. The new camera swings and floats out and sometimes offsets, and sometimes goes into follow mode. It doesn't seem to like doing what it is told.
I am pleased that tracking a warping ship works again. I used that all the time with the old camera.
I prefer how when you track an object in the old camera it overlays / lines up with the ship. The new camera shows your ship sitting at an offset. I find it odd for short angle D-Scan.
Turning on tracking via the HUD in the old Camera works so much better. You could then just click on objects in space or via the overview and have your camera view swing around and align on it. I can use C - Select now, but it seems to be an unnecessary extra button to press.
With the new camera, if you are trying to click on an object in space to track or ALT-Select, and miss, it jarringly jumps back to your own ship.
You really should put all the keyboard shortcuts available in the tool tips on the camera HUD icons. To have it work you need to use keyboard shortcuts which you have to go find for yourself.
To be honest I don't want more sliders and tick boxes available so that I can - if I spend an hour or so going through all the options, end up with a camera view something like the old one. I would much prefer a 4th Camera icon on the HUD that gives me as near on as possible the exact experience of the old camera. I can then use the other icons when I want.
|
|
Anthar Thebess
1451
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 13:19:20 -
[181] - Quote
Control is stuck on multi clients in windowed mode after last patch. You need to press control to release it, it behave like caps lock.
Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists
Show your support to The Cause!
|
Tamazaki
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 13:20:35 -
[182] - Quote
Please do not take away the ability to use the old camera. The new one gives me motion sickness.
When I enter warp/exit warp the camera slowly moves forward/back in a way that I find unpleasant. What is the point of this new movement? It makes me feel uncomfortable. The camera generally feels more 'floaty' and imprecise.
Why did you change it? There was nothing wrong with it before. I can not continue to play the game with the new camera if it stays like that. |
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
300
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 14:20:55 -
[183] - Quote
The tracking still leaves a lot to be desired. The old tracking was smooth, accurate, positionable, and didn't have a mind of it's own when disengaged.
I'm well acquainted with trying something new (creatively) and having it not work out. You just suck it up, swallow your pride, and go back to the way that worked until you can make the new way work. The answer is usually a combination of old and new. Old is the foundation (because it works) new is the experiment (because you don't know if it's going to work).
The point is: You don't erase a solid foundation if you have one. You build on it, not in spite of it.
GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½
|
RBX
Rolling Static Gone Critical
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 15:02:39 -
[184] - Quote
I'll simply re-state what has been said dozens of times before... Speed it up, put the control options where they are easily found and put the old camera tracking functionality back in.
This tendency of dropping usability in favor of "new" is grinding on my last nerve. |
Officer Pressly
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 15:16:37 -
[185] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Manic Velocity wrote:According to the devblog, by this time next month you won't have a choice between the two. It will no longer be "the new camera", it will just be "the camera". Holy ****. I didn't even see that. CCP, listen very carefully now: You CANNOT remove the option for the old, working camera without having fully and completely recreated every last aspect of it in your new system. All of it. No exception. No Gǣkind of the same, butGǪGǥ, and definitely no Gǣit's better now becauseGǪGǥ. It must have every singe option and functionality that the old camera has: the direct and precise movement; the simple look-at and tracking functionality; the ability to track warps; the ability to simply rclick-unhook the camera from its current direction and then have it immediately snap back; always focusing on your ship etc etc etc. All the things people have been telling you for ages now. If you remove it, there are no two ways about it and no delicate way of saying it: you are stupid. You are incompetent. You are not actually listening to the wave of feedback you're getting, and any attempt at claiming otherwise is a lie. Stop it. Step back, swallow your pride, stop blubbering, and give your customers the one thing they're asking for: a properly working camera. Remember what happens every time you have an GǣawesomeGǥ idea that doesn't work in practice, and realise that this is one of those moments. Again. Jesus ******* christ. Why does this keep happening?! How are you so incapable of learning such a ridiculously simple lesson?! WTF is wrong with you?
+1 |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
1985
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 15:32:49 -
[186] - Quote
Hello,
First let me congratulate you on your work for this new Camera, it has reached a point where I've chosen to go ahead and adopt it. (With dynamic FoV disabled)
Doesn't mean it's perfect though, but it's certainly the most promising of these new features, since neither Dscan or maps have yet to reach that level of usability in my opinion... Even though they are much older.
Now, keep up the good work, listen to player feedback, and in no time it should be finally ready to completely replace the old camera!
What I'd like to see happen:
- A setting to disable the automatic appearance of the tactical overlay when switching to tactical view.
- A shortcut to focus camera on self without zooming in (that is, conserve the current zoom level) like the reset camera button does.
Signature Tanking Best Tanking
Retired Exploration Frontier Inc [Ex-F] CEO - Ex-BRAVE - Eve-guides.fr
|
Officer Pressly
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 15:34:36 -
[187] - Quote
Altrue wrote:Hello, First let me congratulate you on your work for this new Camera, it has reached a point where I've chosen to go ahead and adopt it. (With dynamic FoV disabled) Doesn't mean it's perfect though, but it's certainly the most promising of these new features, since neither Dscan or maps have yet to reach that level of usability in my opinion... Even though they are much older. Now, keep up the good work, listen to player feedback, and in no time it should be finally ready to completely replace the old camera! What I'd like to see happen:
- A setting to disable the automatic appearance of the tactical overlay when switching to tactical view.
- A shortcut to focus camera on self without zooming in (that is, conserve the current zoom level) like the reset camera button does.
You know they are taking away the old camera completly in just a little under a month rigth? lol |
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
102
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 15:36:57 -
[188] - Quote
Cade Kenobi wrote:CCP Turtlepower wrote: CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
What we really want to know is are you going to give us the tracking camera back as that is the main game breaker for most of us?
This^^
For the love of god just put the damn tracking camera back and I think 80% of the people in this thread will be happy.
I got quite use to the new camera after some time roaming but I haven't toggled it back on for PVP cause... well you know.
@dominousnolen
|
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
13567
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 15:43:36 -
[189] - Quote
Orravan wrote:
As a fighting capsuleer, I don't care about cinematic effects. What I need is a simple, sober, effective camera I can use to position myself and assess my surroundings in the least disruptive way. The new camera isn't providing any of that, automatically making it a huge failure for the kind of game that is Eve.
It wouldn't be the 1st time CCP has made a change that killed an elegantly simple and easy to use thing in pursuit of some 'updated, modern' thing that doesn't work as well lol.
I wish they'd stop doing that. |
Assueli
BigPoppaMonkeys E.B.O.L.A.
5
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 15:45:25 -
[190] - Quote
How can you change the tracking camera like this? do you play eve?
|
|
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
13567
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 15:51:36 -
[191] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Manic Velocity wrote:According to the devblog, by this time next month you won't have a choice between the two. It will no longer be "the new camera", it will just be "the camera". Holy ****. I didn't even see that. CCP, listen very carefully now: You CANNOT remove the option for the old, working camera without having fully and completely recreated every last aspect of it in your new system. All of it. No exception. No Gǣkind of the same, butGǪGǥ, and definitely no Gǣit's better now becauseGǪGǥ. It must have every singe option and functionality that the old camera has: the direct and precise movement; the simple look-at and tracking functionality; the ability to track warps; the ability to simply rclick-unhook the camera from its current direction and then have it immediately snap back; always focusing on your ship etc etc etc. All the things people have been telling you for ages now. If you remove it, there are no two ways about it and no delicate way of saying it: you are stupid. You are incompetent. You are not actually listening to the wave of feedback you're getting, and any attempt at claiming otherwise is a lie. Stop it. Step back, swallow your pride, stop blubbering, and give your customers the one thing they're asking for: a properly working camera. Remember what happens every time you have an GǣawesomeGǥ idea that doesn't work in practice, and realise that this is one of those moments. Again. Jesus ******* christ. Why does this keep happening?! How are you so incapable of learning such a ridiculously simple lesson?! WTF is wrong with you?
I just read this before my last reply. Feeling the same way.
It reminds me of how they intended to FORCE people to start the game as in Avatar during Incarna (rather than leaving us the option to start inside our ship). If it weren't for the riots this would have happened.
|
Tamazaki
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 16:46:11 -
[192] - Quote
Officer Pressly wrote:You know they are taking away the old camera completly in just a little under a month rigth? lol
Wat?
They better fix it otherwise the motion sickness will prevent me from playing EVE any more. Genuinely. |
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
103
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 16:52:04 -
[193] - Quote
If there are this many people having nausea issues they'll have to spend some time correcting this. Make sure to provide as much info in a ticket or here so they get the info they need.
@dominousnolen
|
Ecrir Twy'Lar
Federation Navy 3rd Fleet
21
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 16:52:08 -
[194] - Quote
Just tried the new camera. I haven't completely evaluated everything yet. However the first thing I noticed that I have a problem with is the fact that the tracking camera is no longer a "toggle". Really? I can't think of a reason why this was changed. All this does is change what used to be a one click action into a two click action while dscanning. Was this necessary? |
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
344
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 17:16:41 -
[195] - Quote
Good to see that tracking objects entering warp is being given back to us. They are apparently listening at least a little.
Now if we can get back toggled tracking camera functionality like we had before and they will either give the option to or just completely remove all of the camera inertia things will start to look up.
All this begs the question though, since all of the new "features" they are shoving down our throats just happen to be ALL the things we want turned off, wouldn't it have been a better idea to just stealthily re-code the camera so that it by default still behaves like the old one (while adding their silly first person and tactical views) and just made all the visual effect's (speed offset, inertia, dynamic FOV, etc) options that we can turn ON if we want to check them out?
Daemun of Khanid
|
Officer Pressly
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 17:26:50 -
[196] - Quote
I bet most of eve arnt aware of CCP removing the option of the old camera. |
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
344
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 17:32:13 -
[197] - Quote
Officer Pressly wrote:I bet most of eve arnt aware of CCP removing the option of the old camera.
I agree. But unless they get rid of that drifty, squishy inertia garbage and give back toggled tracking there are gonna be a lot of angry subscribers when it happens.
Daemun of Khanid
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
14114
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 17:40:09 -
[198] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:Good to see that tracking objects entering warp is being given back to us. They are apparently listening at least a little. Nah, it's just Teeling's is damn good.
I'll leave the next bribe up to ye.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
|
Khan Wrenth
Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation
421
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 18:04:55 -
[199] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:I agree. But unless they get rid of that drifty, squishy inertia garbage and give back toggled tracking there are gonna be a lot of angry subscribers when it happens. I disagree. This is EvE, "Everyone Verses Everyone", not "Everyone Verses the Developers". When it gets to that point, I'm out. I pay a monthly subscription fee to fight NPCs and players, not to fight the interface. The Devs still haven't fixed the interface from the color palette nerf, and combined with a camera nerf, it might be enough to make me leave the game.
Camera controls are one of the hardest things to get right in a video game. I remember, growing up, reading reviews of a lot of games that might have been great but wonky or unstable camera controls tanked them. EvE has had a perfect camera up until now. If this game takes three steps back by implementing this new camera as a mandatory "feature", I might just unsub for a while until they fix it. I'd happily return when they stop gratuitously nerfing the interface. I'm not quite at that point, but I'm real close now.
Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
|
Zapp McDouche
Black Spot on Parchment
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 18:05:44 -
[200] - Quote
some funky stuff going on when im flying my golem. the camera feeels like its sitting on a inflatable raft in a windy sea when im in the standard mode and zoomed out at a distance. |
|
Harsa Tosh
Russian Thunder Squad The Afterlife.
2
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 18:15:55 -
[201] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Manic Velocity wrote:According to the devblog, by this time next month you won't have a choice between the two. It will no longer be "the new camera", it will just be "the camera". Holy ****. I didn't even see that. CCP, listen very carefully now: You CANNOT remove the option for the old, working camera without having fully and completely recreated every last aspect of it in your new system. All of it. No exception. No Gǣkind of the same, butGǪGǥ, and definitely no Gǣit's better now becauseGǪGǥ. It must have every singe option and functionality that the old camera has: the direct and precise movement; the simple look-at and tracking functionality; the ability to track warps; the ability to simply rclick-unhook the camera from its current direction and then have it immediately snap back; always focusing on your ship etc etc etc. All the things people have been telling you for ages now. If you remove it, there are no two ways about it and no delicate way of saying it: you are stupid. You are incompetent. You are not actually listening to the wave of feedback you're getting, and any attempt at claiming otherwise is a lie. Stop it. Step back, swallow your pride, stop blubbering, and give your customers the one thing they're asking for: a properly working camera. Remember what happens every time you have an GǣawesomeGǥ idea that doesn't work in practice, and realise that this is one of those moments. Again. Jesus ******* christ. Why does this keep happening?! How are you so incapable of learning such a ridiculously simple lesson?! WTF is wrong with you? +1 |
Zapp McDouche
Black Spot on Parchment
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 18:21:55 -
[202] - Quote
ok the wobbly camera seems to be only apearing when im in bastion mode and have orbit camera on. when going tactical camera its more normal sort off. The camera feels still sluggish when i orbit it around my ship and the point of attention of the camera feels sometimes off when zoomed out, Cant you make it so its back to the old attention point when zoomed out? |
hipotecadoydesgraciado
Casual Endeavors
2
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 18:33:03 -
[203] - Quote
We cant see the PEW PEW effect ,even mining with lasers |
Ecrir Twy'Lar
Federation Navy 3rd Fleet
21
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 18:35:36 -
[204] - Quote
Bienator II wrote: lasso select: this needs some more tweaks too i believe. Because otherwise you will literally lock EVERYTHING in the rectangle area. Wrecks, drones, LCOs, that little citadel in the background, everything. I don't have a solution for that but it has to be somehow a bit smarter or configurable. So that you can limit it for selecting only ships for example. Or only drones, or only wrecks. (hotkey for ships only selection? if there are no ships it falls back to "everything" selection?)
thats it for now
I like this idea! |
Ecrir Twy'Lar
Federation Navy 3rd Fleet
21
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 18:42:58 -
[205] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:Good to see that tracking objects entering warp is being given back to us. They are apparently listening at least a little. Now if we can get back toggled tracking camera functionality like we had before and they will either give the option to or just completely remove all of the camera inertia things will start to look up. All this begs the question though, since all of the new "features" they are shoving down our throats just happen to be ALL the things we want turned off, wouldn't it have been a better idea to just stealthily re-code the camera so that it by default still behaves like the old one (while adding their silly first person and tactical views) and just made all the visual effect's (speed offset, inertia, dynamic FOV, etc) options that we can turn ON if we want to check them out?
A thousand times this! The old camera worked just fine. When I think of the average Eve player, I think of someone who likes simplicity and efficiency. The only part of the new camera that seems to offer this imo is the marquee function. I love the idea of being able to drag a box in space and selecting/targeting everything within that box. However, that one function isn't worth giving up the old camera. |
Iain Cariaba
2625
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 18:51:36 -
[206] - Quote
I usually don't post in feedback threads. I've learned over the years that CCP is generally going to do whatever they want regardless of what feedback they get.
For the new camera, however, I am forced to make an exception.
I am unable to provide any feedback for features, or lack thereof, because the new camera system makes the game physically unplayable to me. I was able to play using the new camera for less than 10 minutes before I had to turn the new camera off, exit the game, and go lay down while the nausea subsided.
I'm not against the new cameras, all I'm asking is that CCP reconsider the removal of the old camera. After a decade of playing, I don't want to have to add EvE to the list of games I'm unable to play because the camera makes me physically ill.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
|
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
880
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 19:12:43 -
[207] - Quote
Do not remove the use old camera feature.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM XI
|
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
349
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 19:20:45 -
[208] - Quote
Khan Wrenth wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:I agree. But unless they get rid of that drifty, squishy inertia garbage and give back toggled tracking there are gonna be a lot of angry subscribers when it happens. I disagree. This is EvE, "Everyone Verses Everyone", not "Everyone Verses the Developers". When it gets to that point, I'm out. I pay a monthly subscription fee to fight NPCs and players, not to fight the interface. The Devs still haven't fixed the interface from the color palette nerf, and combined with a camera nerf, it might be enough to make me leave the game. Camera controls are one of the hardest things to get right in a video game. I remember, growing up, reading reviews of a lot of games that might have been great but wonky or unstable camera controls tanked them. EvE has had a perfect camera up until now. If this game takes three steps back by implementing this new camera as a mandatory "feature", I might just unsub for a while until they fix it. I'd happily return when they stop gratuitously nerfing the interface. I'm not quite at that point, but I'm real close now.
You do understand that what I was agreeing with was that most ppl don't realize that CCP plan on removing the old camera completely right? So... I'm not sure what it is you disagree with. Its pretty apparent we, along with most everyone else in this thread, agree that the new cam basically sucks.
Daemun of Khanid
|
Leonardo Adami
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
126
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 19:39:20 -
[209] - Quote
Tippia wrote:CCP Turtlepower wrote:GÇóTracking of ships that are warping away is now maintained until the tracked ship leaves the grid (yay!). However, ships that have already initiated a warp command still cannot be tracked by other players; we will fix this ASAP. That leavesGǪ GÇó Keeping the ship centred. GÇó Adjusting the tracking point. GÇó Tracking toggle. GÇó Look toggle. GÇó No camera movement without input while looking. GÇó Linear zoom. GÇó Linear (and equal on every axis) orbiting speed. GÇó Instant reset GÇó RClick-slewing with snap-back GÇó Manual R+L-Drag zoom and FOV adjustment GÇó Tactical overlay setting persistence GǪjust off the top of my head and testing around a station. I'm sure others can expand on it. When will that functionality be added?
I full support these changes and thank you for laying them out so it's clear what other issues we have. We should make just keep a running list like this with all the issues that still need to be addressed. |
DJB16
DJB Alpha
14
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 20:35:01 -
[210] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Hello everyone!
GÇóAtmospheric noises in Tactical and First Person cameras are too loud We are tweaking these today.
Fly safe CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
dont just tweek the damn thing
GIVE US THE OPTION TO TURN THEM OFF TOTALY |
|
Sola Atruin
Mutant Space Kittens
4
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 20:39:07 -
[211] - Quote
Quote:Hello again,
Just a quick update from us. We have released the following fixes and tweaks at todayGÇÖs downtime:
GÇóFixed an issue where players could get stuck in the space scene when docked, after using first person mode. GÇóFixed turrets not being visible on other ships. GÇóFixed an issue that could cause a strange "fishbowl" FOV after jumping. GÇóAnomalies and bookmarks can now be tracked. GÇóTracking of ships that are warping away is now maintained until the tracked ship leaves the grid (yay!). However, ships that have already initiated a warp command still cannot be tracked by other players; we will fix this ASAP.
Thank Bob, a glimpse of hope!
Tried these changes today, better, but still not as good as the old cam. As said before, a toggle for tracking would be another step in the right direction. Pressing d all the time is just annoying. And the reintroduction of a custom tracking position would be nice as well.
Right now, I would still prefer the old cam as a option staying in game instead of the new one. Wasn't a problem with probe scanner, d-scan and map, why would it be a problem now?
Best regards,
Sola Atruin
|
Dantesi Cadelanne
Ubiquitous Hurt The WeHurt Initiative
2
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 20:48:47 -
[212] - Quote
Of the many points in this thread, the tracking camera is most critical.
Please for the love of what ever gods you pray to, implement the traditional tracking in the new iteration.
Secondly, in tactical mode, give us the option to unlock the camera with an additional key combo. With the way the detachment works currently, it is way too clunky and nonfunctional in the way most situations would call for it.
Lastly, implement the traditional tracking camera.
You fixed what wasn't broken. This has some promise, and amazing promise at that. But it is still A LONG WAY from being usable. Take it back to the drawing board, let us keep our legacy camera until you listen to your player base.
|
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
332
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 21:55:21 -
[213] - Quote
Khan Wrenth wrote: This is EvE, "Everyone Verses Everyone", not "Everyone Verses the Developers". When it gets to that point, I'm out. I pay a monthly subscription fee to fight NPCs and players, not to fight the interface. The Devs still haven't fixed the interface from the color palette nerf, and combined with a camera nerf, it might be enough to make me leave the game..
Have to agree here. The last UI few updates have all been about removing player choice and adding more and more ui onto the interface.
- new more intruisive icons.. - additional buttons for new cameras - additions to the selected item window - neut, scram, transfer effects now in centre + overview window - additions to the radial menu - soon to be coming additions notifications when people warp off grid and ships are destroyed.
CCP SOON WE SEE NO SPACE or SHIPS ONLY UI !
(dont really know why the art guys bother.. everything is hidden by icons anyway..)
but yet your market your game showing no UI !! .... oh the irony.
"... ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new... thats where is eve placed... not in cave..."-á | zoonr-Korsairs |-á QFT !
|
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
254
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 22:04:48 -
[214] - Quote
I did not even try the new camera for more than 10 seconds before looking for a way to turn IT the F U C K off!!!!
So i dont know about the majority of problems others have experienced so far, nor have i had the unpleasant sea sickness from playing a video game which im sure i would get.
Why are you breaking S H I T CCP? Why do you insist on trying to force us to use CRAP that does not work? Or requires more work to implement in use....
PvP, even the relative action of avoiding it requires F U C K I N G simplicity...not gimmicked S H I T.
Really WTF is wrong with you......I dont want the new camera, it is more trouble than its worth....
And the Dev answer earlier about certain things being intended....Holy Christ...you need to quit being a dev and play the game for a minimum of 6 months straight from your home before your allowe dto make another descision.
In fact removal of the "old" Camera should get some A S S H O L E fired!! |
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
350
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 23:11:01 -
[215] - Quote
I thought I was irate and angry about these camera changes. Some of you guys/girls make me feel like a zen monk.
Keep it up though, I'm all for anything that gets the point across and the more ppl that are genuinely upset about this camera the more likely CCP will take notice and put a little more thought into this before making it mandatory.
Daemun of Khanid
|
Ash Rand
Exan Industries
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 23:25:25 -
[216] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Manic Velocity wrote:According to the devblog, by this time next month you won't have a choice between the two. It will no longer be "the new camera", it will just be "the camera". Holy ****. I didn't even see that. CCP, listen very carefully now: You CANNOT remove the option for the old, working camera without having fully and completely recreated every last aspect of it in your new system. All of it. No exception. No Gǣkind of the same, butGǪGǥ, and definitely no Gǣit's better now becauseGǪGǥ. It must have every singe option and functionality that the old camera has: the direct and precise movement; the simple look-at and tracking functionality; the ability to track warps; the ability to simply rclick-unhook the camera from its current direction and then have it immediately snap back; always focusing on your ship etc etc etc. All the things people have been telling you for ages now. If you remove it, there are no two ways about it and no delicate way of saying it: you are stupid. You are incompetent. You are not actually listening to the wave of feedback you're getting, and any attempt at claiming otherwise is a lie. Stop it. Step back, swallow your pride, stop blubbering, and give your customers the one thing they're asking for: a properly working camera. Remember what happens every time you have an GǣawesomeGǥ idea that doesn't work in practice, and realise that this is one of those moments. Again. Jesus ******* christ. Why does this keep happening?! How are you so incapable of learning such a ridiculously simple lesson?! WTF is wrong with you?
+1 |
Jeven HouseBenyo
Fifty Shades of Funkyness LLC
335
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 23:27:43 -
[217] - Quote
Max Deveron wrote:I did not even try the new camera for more than 10 seconds before looking for a way to turn IT the F U C K off!!!!
So i dont know about the majority of problems others have experienced so far, nor have i had the unpleasant sea sickness from playing a video game which im sure i would get.
Why are you breaking S H I T CCP? Why do you insist on trying to force us to use CRAP that does not work? Or requires more work to implement in use....
PvP, even the relative action of avoiding it requires F U C K I N G simplicity...not gimmicked S H I T.
Really WTF is wrong with you......I dont want the new camera, it is more trouble than its worth....
And the Dev answer earlier about certain things being intended....Holy Christ...you need to quit being a dev and play the game for a minimum of 6 months straight from your home before your allowe dto make another descision.
In fact removal of the "old" Camera should get some A S S H O L E fired!!
What 'he' said. +1
(sorry, do not know RL gender, faking it from pilot pic!)
>Jeven's Task Mistress
Minny boat flyer, unofficial squeaky wheel.
'Game Ethics and Morality Monitor' I remember promises.
Snark at 11-24/7/365.25. Overshare? Yup.
Yes it's my fault. And if you don't staap it I'll do it again. ;-P
No you can't has my stuffs OR my SPs.
|
Mutiny Within
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 23:30:34 -
[218] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:I usually don't post in feedback threads. I've learned over the years that CCP is generally going to do whatever they want regardless of what feedback they get.
For the new camera, however, I am forced to make an exception.
I am unable to provide any feedback for features, or lack thereof, because the new camera system makes the game physically unplayable to me. I was able to play using the new camera for less than 10 minutes before I had to turn the new camera off, exit the game, and go lay down while the nausea subsided.
I'm not against the new cameras, all I'm asking is that CCP reconsider the removal of the old camera. After a decade of playing, I don't want to have to add EvE to the list of games I'm unable to play because the camera makes me physically ill.
This times a million. Please for the love of New Eden, DO not remove the option to have the "classic" camera. More options are good, and the code is unbroken, so no new work involved in simply letting it be. |
Jeven HouseBenyo
Fifty Shades of Funkyness LLC
335
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 23:43:04 -
[219] - Quote
helana Tsero wrote:Khan Wrenth wrote: This is EvE, "Everyone Verses Everyone", not "Everyone Verses the Developers". When it gets to that point, I'm out. I pay a monthly subscription fee to fight NPCs and players, not to fight the interface. The Devs still haven't fixed the interface from the color palette nerf, and combined with a camera nerf, it might be enough to make me leave the game.. Have to agree here. The last UI few updates have all been about removing player choice and adding more and more ui onto the interface. - new more intruisive icons.. - additional buttons for new cameras - additions to the selected item window - neut, scram, transfer effects now in centre + overview window - additions to the radial menu - soon to be coming additions notifications when people warp off grid and ships are destroyed. CCP SOON WE SEE NO SPACE or SHIPS ONLY UI ! (dont really know why the art guys bother.. everything is hidden by icons anyway..) but yet your market your game showing no UI !! .... oh the irony.
Back during Icongate, CCP Devs finally asked why some use the 90% setting, as their programming to smoosh and stretch was (by their own admission) seriously lacking.
Many that use 90% and responded stated that it was for more space on the screen. Space for what? SPACE. Outer space, where all the nifty graphics are doing their little pixel dances. Why need more space? 'Cuz the different segments of the UI are Nomming All The Space.
I get the running joke, Spreadsheets in Space. Should it be changed to, UI Challenge Online? Find what your ship looks like undocked behind all the buttons, rotaries, overviews, tabbed windows, and clickys for all those new camera options?
I didn't come to Eve Online to play Where's My Skiff on the monitor. And I didn't start this with a yearning for motion sickness. Please, for the care of your own employment when subscription numbers start to tumble if you follow through on all statements in the New Camera Blog, Leave the 'Legacy/Classic' Camera as a Working Option. Do not remove it.
>Jeven
Minny boat flyer, unofficial squeaky wheel.
'Game Ethics and Morality Monitor' I remember promises.
Snark at 11-24/7/365.25. Overshare? Yup.
Yes it's my fault. And if you don't staap it I'll do it again. ;-P
No you can't has my stuffs OR my SPs.
|
Caroline Grace
Retrostellar Boulevard
685
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 00:05:32 -
[220] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Hello again,
Just a quick update from us. We have released the following fixes and tweaks at todayGÇÖs downtime:
GÇóFixed an issue where players could get stuck in the space scene when docked, after using first person mode. GÇóFixed turrets not being visible on other ships. GÇóFixed an issue that could cause a strange "fishbowl" FOV after jumping. GÇóAnomalies and bookmarks can now be tracked. GÇóTracking of ships that are warping away is now maintained until the tracked ship leaves the grid (yay!). However, ships that have already initiated a warp command still cannot be tracked by other players; we will fix this ASAP.
Fly dangerously, CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters Hey Turtlebutt, thank you for all the updates!
I think it would be also awesome if
GÇóThe tracking camera would work like in the old camera (pressing C then the camera tracks automatically after a click) GÇóPOV being saved between jumps if it was changed by the player GÇóAdding a POV bar into the settings for permanent POV change GÇóAdding ability to look around in standard orbit camera mode by holding right button and dragging your mouse
I'm Caroline Grace, and this is my favorite spaceship in the Citadel.
|
|
Catherda
Universal Industries Inc.
3
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 00:12:16 -
[221] - Quote
Caroline Grace wrote:
Hey Turtlebutt
That really made me laugh - nice one
Not sure if CCP Turtlepower would agree though... |
SoulLess Zealot
IceBox Inc.
39
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 01:20:09 -
[222] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Hello again,
Just a quick update from us. We have released the following fixes and tweaks at todayGÇÖs downtime:
GÇóFixed an issue where players could get stuck in the space scene when docked, after using first person mode. GÇóFixed turrets not being visible on other ships. GÇóFixed an issue that could cause a strange "fishbowl" FOV after jumping. GÇóAnomalies and bookmarks can now be tracked. GÇóTracking of ships that are warping away is now maintained until the tracked ship leaves the grid (yay!). However, ships that have already initiated a warp command still cannot be tracked by other players; we will fix this ASAP.
Fly dangerously, CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
this is good but i think a larger issue is not being able to toggle it on or off . i have tried to do so under the navigation shortcut tab with the toggle point camera to selected item key bind ; either this dose something else or is not working.
to be fare i do see the cinematic value of this new camera it will make the game look more vibrant and alive. and when you weigh this with you tube videos or twitch streams it will make the game more appealing. i applaud the progressive strategies being taken to keep eve alive and to grow the subbed member base, im on board. I love this game. however i dont like this brow beating you do you your subscription base to get forced play testing to push your agendas. That is not cool. i pay 3 times over btw to play this game. you need to do the correct research of what players would like to see and pay for. You need to make sure its right. my job is to be happy and pay you money , lets get our roles strait |
Khan Wrenth
Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation
427
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 02:03:05 -
[223] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:You do understand that what I was agreeing with was that most ppl don't realize that CCP plan on removing the old camera completely right? So... I'm not sure what it is you disagree with. Its pretty apparent we, along with most everyone else in this thread, agree that the new cam basically sucks.
Sorry, while writing that post I forgot the snarky comment I originally wanted to put in there.
You said "Lots of angry subscribers", I had intended to say something like, "I disagree...there will be a lot of angry people unsubscribing".
So yeah, we are in agreement, I was just going to take the outcome one step further.
Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
|
Suitonia
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
679
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 02:35:37 -
[224] - Quote
Is it possible to not have the tactical overlay appear every jump even if you disable it while using the Tactical Camera? When jumping in the Orbit Camera while having the World Map open it goes a bit wonky.
Contributer to Eve is Easy:
https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos
Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o
|
Dantesi Cadelanne
Ubiquitous Hurt The WeHurt Initiative
5
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 03:54:59 -
[225] - Quote
Dantesi Cadelanne wrote:Of the many points in this thread, the tracking camera is most critical.
Please for the love of what ever gods you pray to, implement the traditional tracking in the new iteration.
Secondly, in tactical mode, give us the option to unlock the camera with an additional key combo. With the way the detachment works currently, it is way too clunky and nonfunctional in the way most situations would call for it.
Lastly, implement the traditional tracking camera.
You fixed what wasn't broken. This has some promise, and amazing promise at that. But it is still A LONG WAY from being usable. Take it back to the drawing board, let us keep our legacy camera until you listen to your player base.
I am going to quote myself on this one, and also leave this here. this is a snapshot of the poll I ran on twitter so far. http://imgur.com/xUd2UJb (this is the link for the poll it self: https://twitter.com/EVE_Dantesi/status/697896708810735617)
While this is a relatively small sample size of the EVE community on whole, I am happy to put the ISK on the line that had this been properly rolled out and publicized to the community, the issues that we are seeing on live TQ right now would have been entirely avoided. Good intention; poor execution.
As many times as this has been said in this thread so far, it can not be said enough, we need the exact same functionality that our camera systems have currently before proceeding with anything new, and in absolutely no circumstance is "just like the old one" an acceptable answer. Everyone posting in this thread has undocked their ships at least once, and there is an expectation that needs to be met and then surpassed when you are adjusting fundamental game mechanics such as this.
I am (hopefully) confident that Team Psycho Sisters will reflect upon all of our input and give us what we need in our cameras, and then give us what we want for our cinematography secondly. (Please don't let us down )
Links to current poll related to the Dev blog: Unboxing the new Camera in EVE Online
http://imgur.com/xUd2UJb (Initial Poll Data)
https://twitter.com/EVE_Dantesi/status/697896708810735617 Poll Link
02/11/2016
|
Jajuka Cirim
23
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 03:57:44 -
[226] - Quote
Mostly I'm frustrated by how the new camera alters the context menu. A majority of the SISI bugs seem to have been solved. I realise you just copied the "Advanced Camera" settings but really, I don't need any fancy follow tracking. I like my contextual commands where they were, please. At the top of the list. |
Alea
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
208
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 04:28:49 -
[227] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Manic Velocity wrote:According to the devblog, by this time next month you won't have a choice between the two. It will no longer be "the new camera", it will just be "the camera". Holy ****. I didn't even see that. CCP, listen very carefully now: You CANNOT remove the option for the old, working camera without having fully and completely recreated every last aspect of it in your new system. All of it. No exception. No Gǣkind of the same, butGǪGǥ, and definitely no Gǣit's better now becauseGǪGǥ. It must have every singe option and functionality that the old camera has: the direct and precise movement; the simple look-at and tracking functionality; the ability to track warps; the ability to simply rclick-unhook the camera from its current direction and then have it immediately snap back; always focusing on your ship etc etc etc. All the things people have been telling you for ages now. If you remove it, there are no two ways about it and no delicate way of saying it: you are stupid. You are incompetent. You are not actually listening to the wave of feedback you're getting, and any attempt at claiming otherwise is a lie. Stop it. Step back, swallow your pride, stop blubbering, and give your customers the one thing they're asking for: a properly working camera. Remember what happens every time you have an GǣawesomeGǥ idea that doesn't work in practice, and realise that this is one of those moments. Again. Jesus ******* christ. Why does this keep happening?! How are you so incapable of learning such a ridiculously simple lesson?! WTF is wrong with you?
What she said..!!
But it will be implemented working or not as usual.
Fellow Eve players please take note: In case you haven't yet noticed HTFU is going to be replaced with P(ay)TFU, that is all..
|
Sonic Mulder
Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 04:38:09 -
[228] - Quote
As a experienced null scout and AT pilot, the need to hold a given hotkey and tie up my mouse to effectively use the D-scan during combat situations this is completely unacceptable. I need my mouse for manual piloting 90% of the time.
I absolutely need to have the tracking camera to have a toggle function similar if not identical to the way it is now, instead of the new method of hold C and click. |
Drake III
Blame The Bunny The Dark Nation
8
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 06:37:48 -
[229] - Quote
New camera feels "clunky"? Not sure if that the word but the orbit option just feels really weird and seems like that it is on a strange pivot point compared to the old. From switching back and forth between the two the new one definitely does not sit right.
Also warping no matter what angle it was at was off putting in some way. It seems like the camera was leading the ship and it is pivoting along the front?
Overall camera kind of sickening glad we can turn it off for now. (At first thought I couldn't figured CCP just changed it and said have fun. So at least that is something) |
Bemo
Bemo Express
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 07:40:44 -
[230] - Quote
No no no ....just no. Do not remove the old one. Its getting old with all the changes that you get feedback that people do not want and you force it anyways. Who will you force things on when there is no one left? |
|
Anal Jack
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 12:49:42 -
[231] - Quote
I find this game not worth playing without an auto-focus feature. It adds nothing to make me hit the "C" key every time and only makes combat less fun.
I fear if this feature isn't implemented into the new camera I wont enjoy playing any longer. |
Lion Drome
Der Wehrmacht
2
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 14:12:50 -
[232] - Quote
I like what you guys are trying to do with the new camera but it just feels so unpolished and sluggish that for now I'd preferrably stay with the old camera. Its not about even the old vs new thing. The newer one simply doesn't work, is less practical to use and simply feels like trying to make an already working thing better with mixed success. As comparison
Galaxy S2: Works great, bit of an old relic but it basically does everything you want and has been refined to good as it gets without a major overhaul. Solid 8/10 with no complaints
Galaxy S4: Technically much improved over the older model and probably does some neat stuff but they feel a bit more like gimmicks and I'd honestly rather just use the older one since it worked fine and the new one doesn't really seem to add anything essential I was missing in the old one. |
Mostlyharmlesss
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
224
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 14:51:49 -
[233] - Quote
For some reason, when using the new camera, my EVE client increases my GPU load by 10% per client. Also the new camera feels sluggish.
Follow me on Twitter for the latest regarding GoonSwarm Federation and our recruitment drives!
|
Skoomer
Bergmann Foundation Bergmann Federation
31
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 15:15:03 -
[234] - Quote
If the new camera is going to be permanent can you at least add the option to right click in space and look around and then zoom around with both mouse buttons pressed? Only this gave me the possibility to make some action videos in Eve. Camera shake and such. Cant be done with ne new camera as it is if I aint wrong. |
Ojima Mardukis
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 15:15:26 -
[235] - Quote
The new camera had issues with clicking on things in the overview and tracking to them for me. If you are at a poco and attempting to narrow down what moons have POS's using a 5% dscan this is an issue. It also was not as responsive as the old system. Minor motion sickness issues like others have reported from it also. |
Nynaeve Aylet
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 15:33:20 -
[236] - Quote
Please don't change the camera as is, it's awful.
When I first started googling information on EVE something that came up often was the "submarine physics". With the way the new camere feels, it enforces exactly that submarineish feeling, which is the opposite of what it's supposed to be.
The new funtions also have a number of bugs such as tracking not working properly, the camera changing focus randomly and most importantly, not being able to 5-¦ scan quickly enough because the camera "snap" is so sluggish. |
Manic Velocity
The Corp I Just Left
150
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 15:34:49 -
[237] - Quote
I posted this suggestion in a previous thread, and I'll re-post here for the sake of visibility:
Why not just leave both cameras in? Since the new camera is clearly geared towards video makers (which I absolutely appreciate) and giving EVE a more cinematic feel, call it the "Cinematic Camera" with a toggle to enable/disable in the game settings window. Leave the old camera as the default and call it "Classic Camera".
This will literally appease everyone in this thread.
The cinematic camera makes EVE look good. Nobody is denying that. But it makes EVE difficult to play by, not just adding things most people won't use, but by removing things that the vast majority of people do use.
Let the two exist side-by-side and you'll instantly quell a lot of the unrest in this thread.
@manicvelocity
|
Willam Crane
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 15:36:33 -
[238] - Quote
Things that I dont like about the new camera.
- The zooming is horrible: The old camera was intuitive, the new one has weird skips in how quickly it zooms.
- Moving the camera around is a hassle. The new camera will keep on going after you moved it even after you released the mouse. It doesnt feel intuitive at all and instead just feels like you're playing drunk.
- Weird sound. The Tactical and First Person cameras give strange background noice which is really annoying. Would love to have an option to disable it.
I tried the new camera for an hour but got horribly frustrated by it and just resorted to using the old one. |
Ddolik
Trojan Legion Goonswarm Federation
44
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 15:40:55 -
[239] - Quote
keep the old camera option avaible please, let the players choose the camera rype (old/new) |
Ama Atavuli
Rolled Out Shadow Cartel
85
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 15:47:24 -
[240] - Quote
The old camera is far far better than the new one. The new one is sluggish and only good for people making videos. At the very least give us the option of making the new camera act exactly like the old one if we want. A lot of people are going to be pretty unenthusiastic with relearning how the new camera works. |
|
Judy Mikakka
BURN EDEN Northern Coalition.
8
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 15:50:42 -
[241] - Quote
Please don't remove the old camera, For me the new one is just awful. |
Finnbarr Galedeep
The Majestic Duck
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 16:03:04 -
[242] - Quote
Please add an option to remove all mouse acceleration with the new camera. I think this would get rid of a lot of the feeling of sluggishness when using it.
As mentioned, we need functional and tracking of ships in warp. Capsuleers have necks, don't they? It's silly to say that we can't turn and look at something as it warps away. |
Kirito Kid
D4RK M00N The Bastion
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 16:07:07 -
[243] - Quote
If you are going to keep the old options for the Map, and Scanning, why not the camera. You are missing quite a few options when using the new camera over the old. When it comes to tracking, holding down 'c' can be a hassle, and the zoom in effect is nauseating imo.
Better off just keeping the old camera as an option in the settings like you did with previous implementations. |
Xynthiar
Tactical Narcotics Team
14
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 16:16:42 -
[244] - Quote
ddred wrote:I'm not sure if there's an option, but I can't find it. But is there anyway to disable the mouse smoothing for the new camera? The new camera feels a lot more cinematic, but I do wish I had the functionality of the new camera controls with the quick responsiveness of the old one. Whenever I rotate the camera with the new controls, it feels super slow.
This is my only major problem with the new camera, personally.
Responsiveness is super important, I feel like I'm in heavy tidi when I switch to the new camera. |
stykyt
Dry Atomic Fusion Apocalypse Now.
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 16:19:42 -
[245] - Quote
Do Not Remove The Old Camera.
DO NOT REMOVE THE OLD CAMERA.
Can we make it any clearer CCP?
I don't care what you get up to with your fancy pants new camera, it is a steaming pile compared to the old one and should remain an OPTION, do NOT force it on us.
I came back after 2.5 years to see what all this citadel stuff was about and I was confronted by this mess, I played around with it till it didn't make me feel quite as ill just from looking at it but most of the functionality of it feels gone. It seems many people in this thread have voiced what is wrong with it, but I turned it off after less than half an hour hoping to continue on my merry way with the old camera. So there's my 2p about the new camera. Now I find the old camera is getting removed so I am here to be mad on the forums at the developers and express that my desire to stop playing again is rising really fast this time round.
New Camera = Bad.
Old Camera = Good. |
Chronicle
Suddenly Corporation. Suddenly Spaceships.
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 16:21:30 -
[246] - Quote
The biggest issue i think is the "swing/deceelleration" when you move your mouse around - this will screw with manual piloting - if i stop moving my mouse - i want the camera to stop as well. |
Aoi Litvyak
Random inactiva corporation
12
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 16:34:12 -
[247] - Quote
Please, the new camera is unusable in its current state http://i.imgur.com/aAVOvXS.png
This desperately needs to be fixed. |
Morrow Disca
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
87
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 16:41:01 -
[248] - Quote
Please do not remove the old camera. The new one really makes me feel ill and the tracking on the old one was perfect.
https://twitter.com/SniggWaffe
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=237822
|
Whisperen
Delta vane Corp. Mordus Angels
49
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 16:41:32 -
[249] - Quote
The new camera is crap leave the old one available via a checkbox. |
Langbard Vafud
Weimar
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 16:52:40 -
[250] - Quote
From the devblog:
Quote:... weGÇÖve decided to keep the option of reverting to the old camera for about 1 month as of now ...
Can you not force us to use the new camera? I strongly dislike the new map, dscan, and now this new camera you've made. I don't care if you want to waste time "improving" things that don't need fixing, but as long as I have the option to use the original components, I'll be happy. |
|
Edna Gallente
Catastrophic Overview Failure
2
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 16:52:49 -
[251] - Quote
My 2 cents on the new camera.
The eve camera isn't supposed to be pretty or "smooth" via mouse acceleration the way that say a tycoon game camera setup might be.
The camera needs to be similar to a modeling program camera because its mission critical that we see exactly what we need to see in as little time as possible. It needs to be linear, accurate and none of that changing fov, mouse acceleration junk that just slows down our view of the field. |
Denidil
Cascade Crest
647
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 16:57:23 -
[252] - Quote
we hate the new camera. let us keep the old one.
Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
|
Kiandoshia
Gambrini
2413
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 17:06:00 -
[253] - Quote
New camera is pants. Give automatic tracking of the selected object back and then remove 2/3 of the buttons from the UI and put more useful stuff there like... I dunno.. ponies. |
xartin
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
25
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 17:14:49 -
[254] - Quote
I undocled with the new camera enabled and instantly got vertigo.
Disabled the "new" camera and problem was fixed. easy and best solution.
also
Whoever allowed an intern decide to add and break critical game features with software not ready for human consumption needs to go back to school for developing software fundamentals instruction.
The new camera is literally garbage. The new map is also garbage and so is the new scanner.
That may sound really critical but i definitely consider that constructive feedback.
I pay for 4 yearly subs. if any of these beta features hit the mainline eve client before they're ready i'll cancel all four of my subs the next day.
CCP I don't pay four yearly subs for eve to test your crap tier software science experiments.
CCP you refuse to fix critical bugs in the eve client such as the web browser in game that's so vulnerable to being compromised it hasnt been funny for years.
I literally reported a bug in the eve client that has been confirmed over a year ago and it has not been fixed yet you guys are wasting your time not addressing fixing critical game bugs and instead breaking things that work just fine. I don't even...
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/27g99h/a_tad_funny_and_a_bit_embarassing_this_ingame/ci0wpan
http://i.imgur.com/VIcU0N5.png <~~ screenshot of my bug reports
Some people have less time to live than it takes to get ccp to fix software bugs. |
Helena Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
6
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 17:26:30 -
[255] - Quote
My 2p worth, I like the new camera especially the first person view, it makes bombing so much more fun :) However I am not using the new camera due to the tracking feature not working anymore. This is very important for hunting in Wormholes and with the tracking in the new camera being broken its just not usable.
The tracking in the new camera needs to work exactly the same as it works in the current version i.e. center it on the player ship and let it follow what ever is selected regardless of weather is a celestial object, ship or something else. |
|
CCP Turtlepower
C C P C C P Alliance
265
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 17:59:37 -
[256] - Quote
Hey guys, one last update from us before the weekend.
First of all, thanks for all the feedback. We canGÇÖt answer everyoneGÇÿs questions and concerns, but rest assured we are actively monitoring the forums.
To the players that feel nauseous when using the camera, please try playing with some of the camera settings in the Esc menu. Try turning of dynamic FOV and speed offset, and try increasing the camera speed. If you still experience nausea or discomfort, please continue to provide further details with the settings you have tried.
Now on to D-Scan. We have been bouncing around some ideas and came up with a new prototype way to D-Scan that I just put up on our Singularity test server where it will remain over the weekend. If you have the time and interest, please try getting on there and trying it out. It works like this: Hold down V and click something to D-scan it. V also opens up the D-scan window if it is not already open, and is a bindable shortcut key. Yes, you still have to hold down a keyboard button to scan quickly, but it only takes 1 click and the results are populated instantly in the D-scan window. This effectively reduces keystrokes and speeds up the whole process, making it faster and easier than ever before! After a scan, the GÇÿScanGÇÖ button grays out until the 2 second cooldown has elapsed, at which point the button blinks a little bit to let you know you can perform a new scan. Please leave any feedback for this prototype feature in this thread.
Hope you all have an awesome spaceship-filled weekend, CCP Turtlebutt // Team Psycho Sisters |
|
Mistalia
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 18:24:54 -
[257] - Quote
Why don't you save yourselves and us all the hassle and remove the new camera and let us keep the old one?
If it ain't broke, why fix it?
|
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
891
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 18:26:31 -
[258] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:First of all, thanks for all the feedback. We canGÇÖt answer everyoneGÇÿs questions and concerns, but rest assured we are actively monitoring the forums.
This one, I am going to have to take your word for, because your actions speak to a slightly different tune.
I understand that on paper, you want EvE to look and feel its best, to really shine, and want the UI to bring that to the forefront. Honestly your job is hard, because everyone is going to want the UI to feel or work slightly different, whereas no one is going to complain about shiny new ship effects or graphics; it's easy to be well received in graphics as they can only get better.
However in practice, you haven't really paid attention, or it seems that you are signaling that you are not paying attention to users. I turned the new map off and never looked back. Whenever new players ask about how to use the map, I immediately tell them to check the box, as the old map is more functional and easy to use, and most of the time, they too never look back. The box is the one thing that keeps me able to use the map and play the game. When the box goes, that ability goes too. Echoing others, the UI changes that have been pushed are more suited to making nice videos than getting information from the screen into a human brain.
Please do not forget that you are making a UI for the players, not for your own art project. The fact that the check boxes are there make the game playable for many of us - if you mechanically want to remove the old cameras code from the game, sure, but make sure another form of the classic camera mode is implemented in another way in its entirety.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM XI
|
2D34DLY4U
BACKUPLEGION
38
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 18:32:01 -
[259] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Hey guys, one last update from us before the weekend.
First of all, thanks for all the feedback. We canGÇÖt answer everyoneGÇÿs questions and concerns, but rest assured we are actively monitoring the forums.
To the players that feel nauseous when using the camera, please try playing with some of the camera settings in the Esc menu. Try turning of dynamic FOV and speed offset, and try increasing the camera speed. If you still experience nausea or discomfort, please continue to provide further details with the settings you have tried.
Now on to D-Scan. We have been bouncing around some ideas and came up with a new prototype way to D-Scan that I just put up on our Singularity test server where it will remain over the weekend. If you have the time and interest, please try getting on there and trying it out. It works like this: Hold down V and click something to D-scan it. V also opens up the D-scan window if it is not already open, and is a bindable shortcut key. Yes, you still have to hold down a keyboard button to scan quickly, but it only takes 1 click and the results are populated instantly in the D-scan window. This effectively reduces keystrokes and speeds up the whole process, making it faster and easier than ever before! After a scan, the GÇÿScanGÇÖ button grays out until the 2 second cooldown has elapsed, at which point the button blinks a little bit to let you know you can perform a new scan. Please leave any feedback for this prototype feature in this thread.
Hope you all have an awesome spaceship-filled weekend, CCP Turtlebutt // Team Psycho Sisters
I just realized that you don't play EVE and therefore have no idea about what you are doing.
THIS IS NOT JUST A DSCAN PROBLEM
AUTO TRACKING IS ESSENTIAL TO PLAYING THE GAME AND A HUGE PART OF FLYING MANUALLY
- FLYING LOGI - LOCATING YOUSELF RELATIVE OTHERS - TOURNAMENT
HOW CAN YOU JUST COME HERE CALMLY AFTER ALL THE CRAP WE ARE TELLING YOU ON EVERY FORUM AND DISMISS THIS DISASTER WITH A PARAGRAPH ON SEA SICKNESS AND ANOTHER ON DSCAN
IS THIS FOR REAL? THE DSCAN PARAGRAPH DOESNT MAKE SENSE. READ IT AND COMPARE TO WHAT WE HAVE CURRENTLY
YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE DOING THE IMPLEMENTATION IS A DISASTER THE GAME IS BARELY PLAYABLE THE IMPLEMENTATION IS WORSE THAN WHAT WE HAD BEFORE NO ONE WANTS THE NEW CAMERA
THIS IS A CATASTROPHIC FAILURE OF EPIC PROPORTIONS AND YOU NEED TO REVISIT EVERYTHING, GO BACK TO DRAWING BOARD, PLAY THE GAME NON STOP FOR 3 MONTHS SO YOU LEARN WHAT IS REQUIRED BEFORE YOU EVER ATTEMPT TO WRITE ANOTHER LINE OF CODE OR MESS WITH THE CAMERA
Again sorry for caps but I really don't understand what we have to do to get the message across to this dude
THIS IS VERY SERIOUS - WE ARE TRYING TO HELP YOU, PLEASE UNDERSTAND |
Fzhal
Tessaract Industries
36
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 18:32:18 -
[260] - Quote
Yeah, I started feeling a bit nauseous too, mostly from all the distant icons going across the screen back and forth. Please make it so that disabling camera bob will disable the back and forth too!
The thing that I'm most unhappy about is the lack of capability (or maybe I just couldn't find it) to control the camera friction so that the camera didn't keep spinning after I moved it and kept holding the mouse button down in one spot so that it didn't keep spinning. Like station ship spinning, if your mouse is moving fast when you let the button go it keeps spinning, but if you stop your mouse before button-up then the camera stops. This camera just keeps going and it makes it pretty impossible to quickly shift camera for a better view because it keeps going past where you want it to go, and YOU CAN"T STOP IT from spinning more. (Unless you rotate the other way I guess, but isn't that a bit of an excessive expectation because it will again spin further than you want the other direction?) |
|
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
1994
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 18:44:38 -
[261] - Quote
A speed offset slider would be cool!
So that we can have a tiny bit of offset, without getting the full effect.
As for the nausea part, for my part, I felt most displeased with small adjustments of the velocity at < 15% max speed. Seems like the curve of speed difference / camera movement is the strongest at small speeds, and it really shows. My suggestion would be to reduce the maximum offset, and put that reduction at the start of the curve.
Signature Tanking Best Tanking
Retired Exploration Frontier Inc [Ex-F] CEO - Ex-BRAVE - Eve-guides.fr
|
|
CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
1949
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 18:50:41 -
[262] - Quote
Fzhal wrote:The thing that I'm most unhappy about is the lack of capability (or maybe I just couldn't find it) to control the camera friction so that the camera didn't keep spinning after I moved it and kept holding the mouse button down in one spot so that it didn't keep spinning.
Moving the "Camera Speed" slider toward "Fast" reduces the inertia of the camera.
Note that the old camera continues to rotate after you stop moving it as well. It's not 100% damped. You can, with that setting, damp the camera rotation a whole lot more than the old camera's default, so play with it to see where you like it.
I'm not on the team working on the camera, so I won't be able to answer questions about their plans for it. Just trying to help direct you to the setting that does what you want.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
|
|
Leonardo Adami
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
131
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 18:53:05 -
[263] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Hey guys, one last update from us before the weekend.
First of all, thanks for all the feedback. We canGÇÖt answer everyoneGÇÿs questions and concerns, but rest assured we are actively monitoring the forums.
To the players that feel nauseous when using the camera, please try playing with some of the camera settings in the Esc menu. Try turning of dynamic FOV and speed offset, and try increasing the camera speed. If you still experience nausea or discomfort, please continue to provide further details with the settings you have tried.
Now on to D-Scan. We have been bouncing around some ideas and came up with a new prototype way to D-Scan that I just put up on our Singularity test server where it will remain over the weekend. If you have the time and interest, please try getting on there and trying it out. It works like this: Hold down V and click something to D-scan it. V also opens up the D-scan window if it is not already open, and is a bindable shortcut key. Yes, you still have to hold down a keyboard button to scan quickly, but it only takes 1 click and the results are populated instantly in the D-scan window. This effectively reduces keystrokes and speeds up the whole process, making it faster and easier than ever before! After a scan, the GÇÿScanGÇÖ button grays out until the 2 second cooldown has elapsed, at which point the button blinks a little bit to let you know you can perform a new scan. Please leave any feedback for this prototype feature in this thread.
Hope you all have an awesome spaceship-filled weekend, CCP Turtlebutt // Team Psycho Sisters
Literally...nevermimd, on second thought. When your answer is to keep yourself from getting sick change some settings. That's the wrong answer. It should be we've heard your concerns we're not gonna implement a feature that makes our player base nauseous. The tracking camera is huge, we've told you what's wrong why it's wrong and how we feel it should be. So how about you actually read the forums. We've told you the issues. CCP clearly isn't listening and y'all clealri don't play Eve on TQ. This is absolutely absured and ridiculous. |
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
305
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 19:11:49 -
[264] - Quote
Subscription cancelled.
GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½
|
oklem
Canadian Operations Yulai Federation
4
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 19:13:19 -
[265] - Quote
Is there a way to limit the marquee targeting to objects on the overview. Or perhaps active brackets. Every time i try to use it i end up targeting wrecks, drones, or a mess of other stuff I don't want to see. |
bigbud skunkafella
Not The Usual Suspects
42
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 19:15:58 -
[266] - Quote
Adam Paterson wrote:The tracking camera is a must keep in my opinion, it makes it nearly impossible to hunt some one on d scan or follow a ships movements without it. And it is a shame the feture to create your own custom tracking position is not considered. Unfortunately I will be opting out due to this.
this. please retain old tracking camera . |
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
111
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 19:17:49 -
[267] - Quote
CCP If you guys keep pushing these "fix" and are gun-ho on pushing this camera you are going to drive a ton of people away from the game
Telling use to tweak camera settings till we find something to elivate the nausea we are experiencing is a less then good customer experience.
I'm at the point of frustration with submitting bugs and not having anything done, and this is getting me to the point where when my accounts come due I'm done.
You keep trying to implement features that are half completed and having us beta test them in production? That's not a good practical development model, especially if don't actually take our feed back seriously.
@dominousnolen
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
27039
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 19:20:36 -
[268] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:To the players that feel nauseous when using the camera, please try playing with some of the camera settings in the Esc menu. Try turning of dynamic FOV and speed offset, and try increasing the camera speed. If you still experience nausea or discomfort, please continue to provide further details with the settings you have tried.
Now on to D-Scan. We have been bouncing around some ideas and came up with a new prototype way to D-Scan that I just put up on our Singularity test server where it will remain over the weekend. If you have the time and interest, please try getting on there and trying it out. It works like this: Hold down V and click something to D-scan it. V also opens up the D-scan window if it is not already open, and is a bindable shortcut key. Yes, you still have to hold down a keyboard button to scan quickly, but it only takes 1 click and the results are populated instantly in the D-scan window. This effectively reduces keystrokes and speeds up the whole process, making it faster and easier than ever before! After a scan, the GÇÿScanGÇÖ button grays out until the 2 second cooldown has elapsed, at which point the button blinks a little bit to let you know you can perform a new scan. Please leave any feedback for this prototype feature in this thread.
How about this idea for d-scan? You tap GÇÿCGÇÖ, and then click on anything you want to keep track of, be it in-space brackets or on the overview. Your ship remains centred and the camera aligns the target with a user-definable position on screen. If you tap GÇÿCGÇÖ again, you no longer track clicked targets GÇö it works like a toggle so you don't have to press a bunch of keys every time you want to track something. It's just point and click.. Or you just turn the camera, which then stays where you point it and doesn't float around a bunch.
I know it can be done, because it's already in the game and there's no reason to remove it.
Once you've implemented that, you need to look at implementing the following critical components, the lack of which should be considered showstopping bugs if some numbskull accidentally lets the unfinished build go live: GÇó Keeping the ship centred at all times. GÇó Adjusting the tracking point, as mentioned above. GÇó Tracking toggle. GÇó Look toggle. GÇó No camera movement without input while looking. GÇó Linear zoom. GÇó Linear (and equal on every axis) orbiting speed. GÇó Instant reset GÇó RClick-slewing with snap-back GÇó Manual R+L-Drag zoom and FOV adjustment GÇó Tactical overlay setting persistence
CCP Darwin wrote:Moving the "Camera Speed" slider toward "Fast" reduces the inertia of the camera.
Note that the old camera continues to rotate after you stop moving it as well. It's not 100% damped. You can, with that setting, damp the camera rotation a whole lot more than the old camera's default, so play with it to see where you like it. How about a setting to remove all inertia, irrespective and unconnected with camera speed? How about letting camera speed act equally on both axes? How about making the camera movement entirely linear, both in rotation and zoom?
I get that you want to implement these neat features that the refactoring has allowed, but realise that they are at best of tertiary (and most likely of zero) importance compared to making a camera that gives the player full control of his view on space. If you really want to have fun with those new features, put in settings for X, Y, and Z response curves similar to what you see in more serious sims (they generally do it for control input, but this is EVE and the camera is the controller in question GÇö coincidentally, that's also why you cannot **** it up and why people are screaming at you at the moment).
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
|
Tamazaki
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
17
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 19:24:54 -
[269] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Hey guys, one last update from us before the weekend.
First of all, thanks for all the feedback. We canGÇÖt answer everyoneGÇÿs questions and concerns, but rest assured we are actively monitoring the forums.
To the players that feel nauseous when using the camera, please try playing with some of the camera settings in the Esc menu. Try turning of dynamic FOV and speed offset, and try increasing the camera speed. If you still experience nausea or discomfort, please continue to provide further details with the settings you have tried.
Please remove the camera drift that occurs when entering and exiting warp. This is partly what gives me the motion sickness. The old camera doesn't have it, and it doesn't need it. Thank you. |
Manic Velocity
The Corp I Just Left
157
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 20:01:54 -
[270] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Now on to D-Scan. We have been bouncing around some ideas and came up with a new prototype way to D-Scan that I just put up on our Singularity test server where it will remain over the weekend. If you have the time and interest, please try getting on there and trying it out. It works like this: Hold down V and click something to D-scan it. V also opens up the D-scan window if it is not already open, and is a bindable shortcut key. Yes, you still have to hold down a keyboard button to scan quickly, but it only takes 1 click and the results are populated instantly in the D-scan window. This effectively reduces keystrokes and speeds up the whole process, making it faster and easier than ever before! After a scan, the GÇÿScanGÇÖ button grays out until the 2 second cooldown has elapsed, at which point the button blinks a little bit to let you know you can perform a new scan. Please leave any feedback for this prototype feature in this thread.
Emphasis mine.
This is so obviously not the case. The very first thing I noticed is the delayed, line-by-line output of the scan results. The results are most certainly not populated instantly. I hate to bring this up because it sounds like nit-picking, but I think most here would agree that the delayed output effect serves absolutely no practical purpose.
D-Scan is an intel tool. We use it specifically because we need information as fast as possible. Yet once again, this is an example of "form over function". We don't need d-scan to be pretty. We need it to be useful. This delay effect needs to go, plain and simple.
@manicvelocity
|
|
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
113
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 20:16:53 -
[271] - Quote
a++ püñ Gùò_Gùò a++püñ GIVE TRACKING CAMERA TOGGLE
@dominousnolen
|
|
CCP Turtlepower
C C P C C P Alliance
266
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 20:31:54 -
[272] - Quote
Manic Velocity wrote:CCP Turtlepower wrote: the results are populated instantly in the D-scan window. This is so obviously not the case. The very first thing I noticed is the delayed, line-by-line output of the scan results.
Sorry about that, I should have worded that differently. I meant that the list BEGINS to populate instantly. This is quicker than in the old camera because you don't have to wait for the camera to move first before it populates.
CCP Turtlepower |
|
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
358
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 20:32:44 -
[273] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Hey guys, one last update from us before the weekend.
First of all, thanks for all the feedback. We canGÇÖt answer everyoneGÇÿs questions and concerns, but rest assured we are actively monitoring the forums.
To the players that feel nauseous when using the camera, please try playing with some of the camera settings in the Esc menu. Try turning of dynamic FOV and speed offset, and try increasing the camera speed. If you still experience nausea or discomfort, please continue to provide further details with the settings you have tried.
Now on to D-Scan. We have been bouncing around some ideas and came up with a new prototype way to D-Scan that I just put up on our Singularity test server where it will remain over the weekend. If you have the time and interest, please try getting on there and trying it out. It works like this: Hold down V and click something to D-scan it. V also opens up the D-scan window if it is not already open, and is a bindable shortcut key. Yes, you still have to hold down a keyboard button to scan quickly, but it only takes 1 click and the results are populated instantly in the D-scan window. This effectively reduces keystrokes and speeds up the whole process, making it faster and easier than ever before! After a scan, the GÇÿScanGÇÖ button grays out until the 2 second cooldown has elapsed, at which point the button blinks a little bit to let you know you can perform a new scan. Please leave any feedback for this prototype feature in this thread.
Hope you all have an awesome spaceship-filled weekend, CCP Turtlebutt // Team Psycho Sisters
First off I'll say this is a poor attempt and don't see it going places. Giving back what already existed is what will work. BUT I'll check it out at a minimum. However, is there a shortcut entry I should be looking for in order to program this new key? Pressing V does absolutely nothing and I can find nothing in my keybinds set to the V key.
Daemun of Khanid
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
27043
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 20:36:49 -
[274] - Quote
Manic Velocity wrote:Emphasis mine.
This is so obviously not the case. The very first thing I noticed is the delayed, line-by-line output of the scan results. The results are most certainly not populated instantly. I hate to bring this up because it sounds like nit-picking, but I think most here would agree that the delayed output effect serves absolutely no practical purpose.
D-Scan is an intel tool. We use it specifically because we need information as fast as possible. Yet once again, this is an example of "form over function". We don't need d-scan to be pretty. We need it to be useful. This delay effect needs to go, plain and simple. Yeah, unrelated to the whole camera issue, this speaks to an ongoing theme that has plagued EVE's UI changes for quite some time now.
It's suffering more and more from hollywood:itis. I can fully understand that UI artists like to really go hog wild with the fancy effects, since they look cool and it's not something you get to do all that oftenGǪ but there's a reason for that: they make the UI objectively worse. A functional UI is restrained and therefore inherently incompatible with the flashy fun stuff that is fun to make.
The problem is that the players want something fast, functional, and effective. As much as the devs might want to get away from the perception of Excel in Space, that need is the first one that has to be met and anything that gets in the way of it would have to have a spectacularly good reason to be allowed to stick around. Animations and presentation-style GÇ£appearGÇ¥-effects delay and remove precision from time-critical information. Save them for Powerpoint in Space, if and when you get a reason to create that game, but leave them out of EVE.
Top tip for UI designer reflection and insight: if at any time you create some visual effect that is applied to the UI, first imagine how you would react if that effect was applied to the programs and tools you use to design the effect. Imagine if the select tool in Photoshop had to perform a corner-to-corner wipe and flash-fade in every time you clicked it before you were allowed to actually select anything; and that the selection suffered from input lag GÇö not because you're working on a 32GB file, but because of the mandatory animations that play while you drag that box across the screen. It looks cool, but it only serves to make the tool awful. You should have no trouble imagining the frustration this would generate and the slowly rising wish to punch the programmer in the mouth. Now realise that by creating such a UI effect, you are the one who's generating that frustration and who are thus the target for said mouth-punching fantasies.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
|
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
358
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 20:55:29 -
[275] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Manic Velocity wrote:CCP Turtlepower wrote: the results are populated instantly in the D-scan window. This is so obviously not the case. The very first thing I noticed is the delayed, line-by-line output of the scan results. Sorry about that, I should have worded that differently. I meant that the list BEGINS to populate instantly. This is quicker than in the old camera because you don't have to wait for the camera to move first before it populates. CCP Turtlepower
So you STILL insist on f'ing with the way be get our scan results. You want us to sit and wait while ships in line with the scan appear line by line? You wanna try that when scanning down a complex or a planet with 30 ships in it? HELL I'd love to give it a try just to see how much it sucks but I can't. As I mentioned a few minutes ago, "V" does absolutely nothing for me. YES the new camera is on and NO I can't find any entry in the shortcuts tab that relates to the new dscan key. PLUS you still seem to be ignoring the point here. It's not just about pointing and dscanning (even if it were your new gimmick is still just another broken gimmick) it's also about being able to look around in the middle of a fleet fight, select targets, see where they are and what they're doing and make decisions based on the derived situational awareness.WITHOUT extra key presses. Particularly ones that don't work.
One of the dev's also said "The old camera also has momentum." It's not (just) the momentum that occurs when manually directing the camera. Every time you focus on an object using tracking camera, and then focus on a different object or then try to manually move the camera, the F'ing thing goes bonkers. In zoom, out zoom, detaches from ship, ship dissapears momentarily from view then slides back in and if you are selecting a target to track the GD camera points directly at the object THEN drifts offcenter fo some unknown ridiculous reason. Depending on you zoom level and your window layout your ship can end up completely obscured behind windows so you have no idea WTF is going on. In case you haven't noticed EvE is A LOT OF WINDOWS and we (at least I know I do) tend to set up out windows so that we can still our ship and space and then arrange all of our windows around that little peep hole. When you start making the ship drift all around and out of that center point you're screwing with what we can see and our awareness. JUST STOP FFS.
I mean, do I need to make a friggin video for you guys and narrate the whole thing. Showing you how the camera behaves and telling you every little thing step by step that is wrong with it? You CAN run an eve client yourself right and you HAVE played the game before right?
Daemun of Khanid
|
Esnaelc Sin'led
The Unchained Club
62
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 21:01:42 -
[276] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Now on to D-Scan. We have been bouncing around some ideas and came up with a new prototype way to D-Scan that I just put up on our Singularity test server where it will remain over the weekend. If you have the time and interest, please try getting on there and trying it out. It works like this: Hold down V and click something to D-scan it. V also opens up the D-scan window if it is not already open, and is a bindable shortcut key. Yes, you still have to hold down a keyboard button to scan quickly, but it only takes 1 click and the results are populated instantly in the D-scan window. This effectively reduces keystrokes and speeds up the whole process, making it faster and easier than ever before! After a scan, the GÇÿScanGÇÖ button grays out until the 2 second cooldown has elapsed, at which point the button blinks a little bit to let you know you can perform a new scan. Please leave any feedback for this prototype feature in this thread.
I've just tested new D-Scan thing.
Now i'm confused, cause i very much like the way the camera moves, its speed and the instant result. Though, ... i feel disturb by the 'non aligned' axe that makes [My Camera]-->[My Ship]-->[Object_to_D-Scan] even though i do know that my camera is D-Scanning the exact object i clicked while pressing. The fact that it was drawing an axe between camera / ship / object to DScan was a point of reference as of WHERE you would DScan exactly @ 5 degrees, for some situations, it might be harder to be sure what we are DScaningwithout this point of reference.
Probably a habit to re-learn. And i'm ok with that.
About a moving object that's ok, once you've done your command and you don't touch camera position anymore, it follows the object till it goes out of grid. Enough to be able to see where the object went. BUT Constantly having to press the shortcut + the object is something more to care about.
Probably a habit to re-learn, but i find it harder to re-learn than the basic D-Scan.
A simple mode on/off would be so much easier, but we would lose that instant result that i really like. Hard to decide if it's better or not... |
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
358
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 21:05:54 -
[277] - Quote
Here's a pretty picture for you... Screen Shot
At any given moment that's what I'm looking at on my screens.
On the right I'm using the old camera. As you can see, my ship is right there in the middle and no matter what I do... there she is. Right there in the middle. I can quickly select objects on the overview and my view aligns with that object showing me where it is in relation to my current vector, where it is in relation to my fleet mates and other celestial objects.
On the left I'm using the new camera. Where's my ship? It supposed to be right the in the middle... is it? Nope. I now have to hit various key combinations while I'm in the middle of a fleet fight to select objects and get a look at where they are in relation to me and even then, once the camera snaps to point at them it then quickly shifts my ship completely out of my sight so I have no idea whats going on. BUT HEY! I have a nice clear view of the ship flying 5k m/s 50km away from me that I'm looking at... or is that a speck of dirt on my monitor... I dunno. Good thing my camera moves my ship out of my way like that for me though huh...
No.
It isn't.
Just in case you didn't get the sarcasm.
If you must have a video showing how the camera pops, snaps, zooms and drifts all over the place when changing targets and manual adjusting the camera just let me know and I'll make you one since you don't seem to have a pc handy to test things out for yourself. Just to let you know though I expect to get paid by the hour.
Just to summarize: The camera NEEDS to be FUNCTIONALfirst and foremost. These little visual effects, and shifting camera's and garbage are NOT functional. They are visual fluff and the detract from a pilots ability to manage his assets in a combat situation. All of these new changes should be part of the old "Advanced camera menu (aimed at video makers)" not what the whole of us are expected to use in everyday situations. I said it before and will say it again, you guys seem extremely detached from your player base and what it's like to actually play your own game.
Daemun of Khanid
|
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
113
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 21:06:00 -
[278] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Manic Velocity wrote:CCP Turtlepower wrote: the results are populated instantly in the D-scan window. This is so obviously not the case. The very first thing I noticed is the delayed, line-by-line output of the scan results. Sorry about that, I should have worded that differently. I meant that the list BEGINS to populate instantly. This is quicker than in the old camera because you don't have to wait for the camera to move first before it populates. CCP Turtlepower
Turtlepower - I don't understand why we can't just have the tracking functionality like in the old camera. Your Dscan fix sounds cool and all, but ultimate the functionality we're use to have is lacking and I would love to see it come back into this camera.
There are some inertia issues that need fixing, but for me to use this as a full time play feature, it needs that tracking camera toggle.
@dominousnolen
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
27045
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 21:22:57 -
[279] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:I mean, do I need to make a friggin video for you guys and narrate the whole thing. Showing you how the camera behaves and telling you every little thing step by step that is wrong with it? You CAN run an eve client yourself right and you HAVE played the game before right? Trust me, the video is a very good idea becauseGǪ well, your rhetoric questions may not be as rhetoric as you think.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
|
Marlene Dakenek
Devid Ventures
19
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 21:23:28 -
[280] - Quote
Sadly I have nothing positive to say about the new camera. The rubberbanding camera zoom (or whatever it is called) and sluggish movement are terrible. I much prefer the old sharp and quick movement. Actually the new camera feels like something I could expect from a bad console port. It is also not possible to zoom as far out as before. You have also removed the ability to right-click in space to move the camera around. These are the major issues I could think of right now. I hope you decide to keep all features of the old camera as this new camera makes playing the game very annoying and frustrating. |
|
Jeven HouseBenyo
Fifty Shades of Funkyness LLC
347
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 21:44:08 -
[281] - Quote
Umm. Err.
So the answer to the new shiny camera of nausea causing nausea is to...
Tweak speed settings.
Give it another chance so we can adjust to motion sickness.
Drink the Kool-Aid, keep forking over cash for a game you seem bound and determined to either break and/or make SO exclusive that only CCP employees and 1%ers will be playing in the Eve Online sandbox.
*-*-*
A variant on the, it's not CCP it's your ISP, that comes up during waves of dicso's and Issue threads start getting rather hot under the collar.
Nope. This IS you. This IS your new camera. YOU fix it on your end. Our job is to play game on a game client that is Functional.
If you do remove the 'Classic/Legacy' camera choice, YOU make the game NOT functional for some due to Nausea. I don't speak for anyone but myself. But you remove that camera option, I. QUIT.
>Jeven's Torqued Off Creatrix
Minny boat flyer, unofficial squeaky wheel.
'Game Ethics and Morality Monitor' I remember promises.
Snark at 11-24/7/365.25. Overshare? Yup.
Yes it's my fault. And if you don't staap it I'll do it again. ;-P
No you can't has my stuffs OR my SPs.
|
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
3554
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 21:49:37 -
[282] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Now on to D-Scan. We have been bouncing around some ideas and came up with a new prototype way to D-Scan that I just put up on our Singularity test server where it will remain over the weekend. If you have the time and interest, please try getting on there and trying it out. It works like this: Hold down V and click something to D-scan it. V also opens up the D-scan window if it is not already open, and is a bindable shortcut key. Yes, you still have to hold down a keyboard button to scan quickly, but it only takes 1 click and the results begin populating instantly in the D-scan window. This effectively reduces keystrokes and speeds up the whole process, making it faster and easier than ever before! After a scan, the GÇÿScanGÇÖ button grays out until the 2 second cooldown has elapsed, at which point the button blinks a little bit to let you know you can perform a new scan. Please leave any feedback for this prototype feature in this thread.
Hope you all have an awesome spaceship-filled weekend, CCP Turtlebutt // Team Psycho Sisters
You've completely missed the point. The old tracking camera was good for far more than dscan.
Scouting structures? Warping to the location and clicking the structure on overview automatically put it in your field of view.
In combat? Clicking something on your overview immediately shifted your view to it.
Need to sort of align to something but don't want to run into it because you're cloaked? Click it, and once your camera points at it double-click near it and you've got an angled approach that will take you close without risking a direct hit.
Your userbase WANTS TO KEEP WHAT WE HAVE. We don't like the new thing you made. We're sorry, I know it was a lot of work and you're proud of it and it's going to make for some neat visuals, but you're breaking functionality and we're not happy with it. The absolute best thing you can do here is say "We understand, we'll maintain the tracking camera as a mode of the new camera system and implement it on TQ for your testing before we remove your ability to turn off the new camera"
Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
|
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
343
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 21:51:00 -
[283] - Quote
Cancelling all of my subscriptions if the old camera dies and the new camera is still ****.
Your new camera is garbage.
Thank me later :D
|
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
366
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 21:57:58 -
[284] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:I mean, do I need to make a friggin video for you guys and narrate the whole thing. Showing you how the camera behaves and telling you every little thing step by step that is wrong with it? You CAN run an eve client yourself right and you HAVE played the game before right? Trust me, the video is a very good idea becauseGǪ well, your rhetoric questions may not be as rhetoric as you think.
UHG, fine. But I'm not gonna bother with overlay text and graphics etc so try to follow along CCP.
VIDEO
OK, at the opening of the video up till time 0:10 all seems fine. I'm actually ok with where the zoom speed and drift from moving the camera is at this stage. It doesn't feel as "connected" with my inputs as the old camera but I can get used to it.
0:12 I use the current shortcut key "C" to point the tracking camera at an object selected on the overview.
0:16 by this time the camera has shifted the view of my ship completely out of my line of sight. (that's not a good thing just in case you were wondering)
0:20 I click on drag on the screen to manually point the camera just as I would if I was in a fight and trying to get a look around me. (don't want to go bumping into stations or asteroids while I'm kiting around in my little slicer now do I) Notice what the camera does. It doesn't just smoothly rotate from where I'm currently looking, instead it snaps around 180 degree's and zooms WAAAYYY out on my ship. Not very helpfull for maintaining situational awareness now is it. In fact at first I have no idea what I'm even looking at or where my ship even went.
0:30 I use the tracking camera a few more times further demonstrating how my ship is just constantly awol.
0:40 once again I attemp to manually adjust the camera and boom, I'm out at max zoom facing some random direction again.
It should also be noted that during warp the camera shift is equally problematic. Moving my camera all over the place in ways I have no desire for it to do so.
The way the camera snaps around spinning 180 degrees and then drifting the ship in and out of view is a big part of the nausea problem. It's like reading a book while riding in a car and getting car sick. When your eye's, inner ear and intentional body movements send inputs to your brain that don't align it causes motion sickness.
With this new camera, the camera (a view point that you are accustomed to being your eye's in space) is moving around in all sorts of ways that do not correlate to what your hands are telling it to do on your keyboard and mouse, nor what you brain is telling you that it should be doing based on predictable response to input and environment. The physiological response to that situation is vertigo/motion sickness/nausea.
Does that spell things out clearly enough?
Edit; Sorry with all the nausea explanation I forgot to point out... IT RUINS YOUR SENSE OF LOCATION AND SITUATIONAL AWARENESS!.
Daemun of Khanid
|
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
115
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 22:02:25 -
[285] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:CCP Turtlepower wrote:Now on to D-Scan. Hope you all have an awesome spaceship-filled weekend, CCP Turtlebutt // Team Psycho Sisters You've completely missed the point. The old tracking camera was good for far more than dscan. Scouting structures? Warping to the location and clicking the structure on overview automatically put it in your field of view. In combat? Clicking something on your overview immediately shifted your view to it. Need to sort of align to something but don't want to run into it because you're cloaked? Click it, and once your camera points at it double-click near it and you've got an angled approach that will take you close without risking a direct hit. Your userbase WANTS TO KEEP WHAT WE HAVE. We don't like the new thing you made. We're sorry, I know it was a lot of work and you're proud of it and it's going to make for some neat visuals, but you're breaking functionality and we're not happy with it. The absolute best thing you can do here is say "We understand, we'll maintain the tracking camera as a mode of the new camera system and implement it on TQ for your testing before we remove your ability to turn off the new camera"
^^^ Perfectly stated.
@dominousnolen
|
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
343
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 22:03:33 -
[286] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:Tippia wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:I mean, do I need to make a friggin video for you guys and narrate the whole thing. Showing you how the camera behaves and telling you every little thing step by step that is wrong with it? You CAN run an eve client yourself right and you HAVE played the game before right? Trust me, the video is a very good idea becauseGǪ well, your rhetoric questions may not be as rhetoric as you think. UHG, fine. But I'm not gonna bother with overlay text and graphics etc so try to follow along CCP. VIDEOOK, at the opening of the video up till time 0:10all seems fine. I'm actually ok with where the zoom speed and drift from moving the camera is at this stage. It doesn't feel as "connected" with my inputs as the old camera but I can get used to it. 0:12 I use the current shortcut key "C" to point the tracking camera at an object selected on the overview. 0:16 by this time the camera has shifted the view of my ship completely out of my line of sight. (that's not a good thing just in case you were wondering) 0:20 I click on drag on the screen to manually point the camera just as I would if I was in a fight and trying to get a look around me. (don't want to go bumping into stations or asteroids while I'm kiting around in my little slicer now do I) Notice what the camera does. It doesn't just smoothly rotate from where I'm currently looking, instead it snaps around 180 degree's and zooms WAAAYYY out on my ship. Not very helpfull for maintaining situational awareness now is it. In fact at first I have no idea what I'm even looking at or where my ship even went. 0:30 I use the tracking camera a few more times further demonstrating how my ship is just constantly awol. 0:40 once again I attemp to manually adjust the camera and boom, I'm out at max zoom facing some random direction again. It should also be noted that during warp the camera shift is equally problematic. Moving my camera all over the place in ways I have no desire for it to do so. The way the camera snaps around spinning 180 degrees and then drifting the ship in and out of view is a big part of the nausea problem. It's like reading a book while riding in a car and getting car sick. When your eye's, inner ear and intentional body movements send inputs to your brain that don't align it causes motion sickness. With this new camera, the camera (a view point that you are accustomed to being your eye's in space) is moving around in all sorts of ways that do not correlate to what your hands are telling it to do on your keyboard and mouse, nor what you brain is telling you that it should be doing based on predictable response to input and environment. The physiological response to that situation is vertigo/motion sickness/nausea. Does that spell things out clearly enough? Edit; Sorry with all the nausea explanation I forgot to point out... IT RUINS YOUR SENSE OF LOCATION AND SITUATIONAL AWARENESS!.
Maybe you should have bold text ... I'm not sure they get it. This is the first time I've actually felt disappointment towards CCP. Perhaps it was inevitable? I love Eve and the people I've met along the way.
Thanks for making your video - hopefully they get it.
Thank me later :D
|
Manic Velocity
The Corp I Just Left
160
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 22:05:33 -
[287] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Sorry about that, I should have worded that differently. I meant that the list BEGINS to populate instantly. This is quicker than in the old camera because you don't have to wait for the camera to move first before it populates.
CCP Turtlepower
If I had to choose between waiting for the camera to swing around to get a complete list of data, or having that data begin to populate instantly and finish output after a second or two, I would absolutely take the first option. The d-scan data in its entirety needs to output instantly. Just as it currently does on TQ, and has always done for as long as I can remember.
If you thought people were pissed about the loss of a proper tracking camera, then just wait to see how they deal with delayed d-scan results.
@manicvelocity
|
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
115
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 22:05:55 -
[288] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:Tippia wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:I mean, do I need to make a friggin video for you guys and narrate the whole thing. Showing you how the camera behaves and telling you every little thing step by step that is wrong with it? You CAN run an eve client yourself right and you HAVE played the game before right? Trust me, the video is a very good idea becauseGǪ well, your rhetoric questions may not be as rhetoric as you think. UHG, fine. But I'm not gonna bother with overlay text and graphics etc so try to follow along CCP. VIDEOIT RUINS YOUR SENSE OF LOCATION AND SITUATIONAL AWARENESS!.
Thanks for posting this. The dodgy movement really needs to be highlighted as a problem. Hopefully this kinda hits the problem home for them.
@dominousnolen
|
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
368
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 22:11:42 -
[289] - Quote
Almost forgot, that'll be $17.50. At a rather unremarkable hourly rate of $20; recording the video, breaking it down and explaining it in a forum post was about 45 minutes of my day wasted. I can take cashiers check or paypal if that's more convenient.
Really surprised you guys can't boot up a client and see this stuff for yourselves.
Daemun of Khanid
|
Partsking
THORN Syndicate Circle-Of-Two
56
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 22:15:34 -
[290] - Quote
Um, yeah. The new camera is ****.
Leave the option in to use both and everyone will be happy. Happy customers, happy subs. |
|
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
116
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 22:31:09 -
[291] - Quote
The forums are filling up with so much hate for the new camera.
Meanwhile at CCP Head-quaters
@dominousnolen
|
Mil Hegirin
Gingertar
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 22:47:29 -
[292] - Quote
Some reasons I don't use the new camera
- D-Scan is harder to use - lost functionality
- C must be held down to use the tracking camera. Every. Single. Time.
- The Fishbowl effect - most pronounced when warping
- Camera inertia - literally worthless
- The tactical grid camera's pivot point is nigh impossible to manipulate, making it largely useless for subcaps
- First person is cool, but has no practical value
- FOV sliding. RIP my sense of distance. RIP my ability to make minor adjustments on the fly
Many of the changes are cool for movie makers, and clunky for everyone else. Clunky means poor design |
Drake III
Blame The Bunny The Dark Nation
11
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 22:55:56 -
[293] - Quote
So if I'm a new player and get nausea from the way the camera moves how long will I actually keep playing? On top of that if tell you about it you would tell me to adjust the camera settings. Having just started having no idea what I'm doing in a complex universe I have to also tweak a bunch of settings just to play.
Welcome to EVE
Also in response to you saying nothing is final and it is a work in process. The new camera is a default setting and new players would not even know there was a difference. I have been playing since 2006 and I did not know until I did some digging |
2D34DLY4U
BACKUPLEGION
46
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 22:57:50 -
[294] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote: It's not just about pointing and dscanning (even if it were your new gimmick is still just another broken gimmick) it's also about being able to look around in the middle of a fleet fight, select targets, see where they are and what they're doing and make decisions based on the derived situational awareness.WITHOUT extra key presses. Particularly ones that don't work.
A million times this - CCP please reflect on what we are telling you, these are good messages, try it out for yourself to understand better - we are speaking the truth here and this is relevant and matters a lot to play the game.
Perhaps you can join RvB to learn since its high sec & accessible, they used to have engagements all the time where two fleets warp to each other and brawl, when you are in a middle of a blob of ships it is very important to have a camera that is centered on your ship (so you can see where you are going to) and use tracking (one click) followed by double clicking in space (to change where your ship is pointed to) in order to fly manually towards or in directions relative to others depending on what you want to do.
This is a good enough approximation to what happens when you are in fleet fights and again have to quickly understand where everything is while manually flying your ship. If you are heading in direction A and you see some target is to the left of you (because you click it and the camera, while remaining centered on your ship, is now pointing to the left automatically), you can then quickly adjust your direction relative to the target (by double clicking in space around your ship) while at the same time keeping tabs on where your ship is pointed to since it remains in the center of your screen. Note all of this is performed with the mouse and requires 3 clicks, a single click to point the auto track camera and a double click to move your ship, this while leaving your non mouse hand to work on speed, modules, etc.
You can also use tactical view to perform this from a more zoomed out perspective, but these are two good ways of flying that work, why take away one for no reason or replace it with menus and keybinds that even if they worked would be a worse solution?
RvB is high sec and you can easily make an alt to join and learn, inject some skills points and do a few frigate brawls to understand. We are not crazy although we are certainly desperate with this 1 month warning - this new camera may be awesome for videos and we understand you put a lot of work into it but for flying it simply doesn't work, the last thing we need is even more things to make EVE hard to play on top of an already complex UI/control model that you guys invented, we do our best to lean to use it effectively with the tools you give us that work, don't take them away or make them worse. |
Dantesi Cadelanne
Ubiquitous Hurt The WeHurt Initiative
6
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 22:58:29 -
[295] - Quote
Drake III wrote:So if I'm a new player and get nausea from the way the camera moves how long will I actually keep playing? On top of that if tell you about it you would tell me to adjust the camera settings. Having just started having no idea what I'm doing in a complex universe I have to also tweak a bunch of settings just to play.
Welcome to EVE
This^^^
Links to current poll related to the Dev blog: Unboxing the new Camera in EVE Online
http://imgur.com/xUd2UJb (Initial Poll Data)
https://twitter.com/EVE_Dantesi/status/697896708810735617 Poll Link
02/11/2016
|
Needmore Longcat
Hoover Inc. Pandemic Legion
240
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 23:08:29 -
[296] - Quote
Stop trying to fix things that aren't broken.
|
Chrome Veinss
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
30
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 23:45:02 -
[297] - Quote
I gave the new camera another try. Its usable now that it can actually track things and not a horrible experience if all options are disabled and camera speed is set to maximum. Would be much better if "c" acted as an on/off toggle instead of having to press "c" every time i want to track something. Its still worse than the old camera. But at least its somewhat usable.
But I think the biggest problem right now is the camera not centering on your ship, this is what is making me once again go back to the old camera after 30 minutes with the new one. You only have to try tracking a thing in space, then another thing and surely enough you'lll lose sight of your ship behind some UI element and be lost in space. Its a really obvious problem and its pretty mindboogling that you'd release this as it is right now (let alone release it as it was before this first patch). |
Acedia Prime
Dysfunctional Dudes
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 23:54:28 -
[298] - Quote
I'm so sad that auto-tracking is not available for the new camera mode!!! Everything else about it is so shiny! Unfortunately, not having the option of auto-tracking makes it unusable for anything else than cinematic purposes... |
Aoi Litvyak
Random inactiva corporation
13
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 00:07:20 -
[299] - Quote
Maybe the solution is extremely simple.
Why not have the new cameras settings mimic or be as close to the current camera as possible by default.
Yeah CCP you want to show off all its new features, but thats the same kind of bullshittery an artist pulls to make it "cinematic" and look awesome on screenhots! With no regards to actual gameplay. The new camera doesnt need to have all its features on tweaked up to 11, it would be logical to make its default settings close to the original with the new features mostly disabled, and people can turn them on if they like it.
Maybe even have an extra setting thats Camera-Presets, with like Classic and New, and changing it changes all the camera settings. |
Remiel Pollard
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
7511
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 00:16:06 -
[300] - Quote
"we now have three different in-space cameras instead of the one before:"
And as long as one of them does the same thing as the one I have now, we won't have a problem. But if I'm being forced to use something I didn't ask for (ie Captain's Quarters all over again) I won't be sticking around.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
|
Bemo
Bemo Express
5
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 00:39:19 -
[301] - Quote
I think its kinda funny how they keep telling us to "adjust this and change that setting" if we dont like how the camera is acting. So you want me to turn all those features off in the options menu instead of leaving the old WORKING camera alone. Right. Gotcha. Makes sense |
Heteleon Rotineque
EVE University Ivy League
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 01:30:22 -
[302] - Quote
Could we pretty please have the max zoom out level be configurable or at least the same as what we had with the old camera? The max zoom out level of the new camera is about 300km radius but the old camera was around 900km radius (those were taken on the same screen/resolution). Yes I know that I can zoom out, detach the camera, then zoom out some more... but a) I don't want to have to detach the camera and b) after you detach the camera there's no option to keep my ship or any other object the center of the camera rotation. If we could just be able to zoom out a bit further in the normal tactical camera that'd be swell. You could even make it configurable in the display and graphic settings if you'd like.
If I'm missing some magic button to help me please let me know :)
Thanks |
stalkerzzz
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 01:34:26 -
[303] - Quote
Please bring the tracking camera back!!!!! |
RuleoftheBone
Stellar Conundrum
12
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 07:00:56 -
[304] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:With the February release (deployed on February 9), we have also introduced a new default camera.
The previous camera was based on quite old code and was due for a rewrite. Now we have a system where multiple, special purposed cameras can happily live side by side to give you the best view possible of New Eden!
Hi,
While I have no issue with "new views" in and of itself.....your new camera implantation has significant and severe negative effects on actual game play.
In a nutshell the new camera simply does not play well with tracking other ships in conjunction with dscan and has similar floating issues with the tactical display.
All things being equal I could cheerfully illustrate this by challenging you (or whoever) to simply jump into a system and pinpoint my location using the new camera/dscan. Having tried this over and over with the new camera I had no choice but to disable it and return to legacy as the speed of target acquisition was dramatically increased thanks to the wonky new camera.
Pretty is one thing....functional is what actual pilots need for the most part.
And the unstable tactical overlay is not pleasant. Have you tried de-cloaking maneuvers in w-space?
I would appreciate NOT being given an ultimatum to use a system that is clearly not ready for prime time. It is no different than the pretty but not overly functional (and those colors dude) new map.
I am just a 2 account subscriber and while I don't really plan to vote with my wallet and do some sort of rage quit.....but would appreciate some consideration in allowing the game to remain fully playable.
Cheers
Bone |
Jarrec DuMorne
Concordiat Spaceship Samurai
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 09:30:45 -
[305] - Quote
... I have never before posted in this forum, even though I really did not like many of the decisions, that have been made in the last 1-2 years. However, this latest development is highly disconcerning to me. No matter how much effort and planning went into this new camera, it is simply inferior to the old one and this can not be fixed by a few simple tweaks. You are approaching the probleme under the wrong premises.
Please leave the old camera as it is. Forget about the new one.
There is nothing wrong with the old camera, it does a very good job. Who cares if the code is 15 years old. I havent tested the new camera much, and to be honest, I hope I never have to. From what I have seen and experienced it impairs your ability to control the game, especially under hectic circumstances. The reasons for that have been stated in previous posts and I will not repeat them again.
If you really want to make a new camera, you will have to go back to the drawing board. The new camera has to be simple, responsive and must allow you to control your ship effectively. Think about how programs like 3Dmax work. It should not "look good", be fancy or cinematic. You have to be able to "work with it". And chances are you would realize that the old camera is actually pretty difficult to improve on.
I really hope CCP can pull the emergency brake on this one in time. I agree to this post 100%:
Quote:I am just a 2 account subscriber and while I don't really plan to vote with my wallet and do some sort of rage quit.....but would appreciate some consideration in allowing the game to remain fully playable.
PS: Wait, you actually removed the right-click look arround and zoom function?? I use that every day, what the hell! |
Sgt Ocker
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
821
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 09:34:08 -
[306] - Quote
Removing the existing camera, which may well be old but is just so user friendly and performs well for everyday game play - Mission running, Scanning, PVP, etc - And replacing it with a not so user friendly camera designed specifically for all the budding video makers (free advertising for CCP) really is just the next in a line of additions to the game that indicate - CCP ranks player concerns as "not important" once they have made a decision
Simple most effective thing to do with this would be to have 2 cameras. One for general game play, the second for the cinematic type who want to make pretty videos.
There may also be those who may find, in the middle of a fight that detaching from their ship and losing all perspective of whats happening right next to them, interesting.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
|
DJB16
DJB Alpha
20
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 09:41:09 -
[307] - Quote
DJB16 wrote:CCP Turtlepower wrote:Hello everyone!
GÇóAtmospheric noises in Tactical and First Person cameras are too loud We are tweaking these today.
Fly safe CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
dont just tweek the damn thing GIVE US THE OPTION TO TURN THEM OFF TOTALY
ill say is again dont just tweek the NOISE give us the ability to REMOVE THE NOISE without muting EVERYTHING |
Grookshank
Jump Drive Appreciation Society
64
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 10:57:20 -
[308] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Hey guys, one last update from us before the weekend.
First of all, thanks for all the feedback. We canGÇÖt answer everyoneGÇÿs questions and concerns, but rest assured we are actively monitoring the forums.
To the players that feel nauseous when using the camera, please try playing with some of the camera settings in the Esc menu. Try turning of dynamic FOV and speed offset, and try increasing the camera speed. If you still experience nausea or discomfort, please continue to provide further details with the settings you have tried.
This sadly does not solve the sea-sickness problem. Keep the old camera as an option.
Not seen it mentioned, but: Instantly zooming to your ship with ALT+leftclick in space does not work with the new camera.
|
Pycu
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 11:07:34 -
[309] - Quote
Commander Nina Hanomaa wrote:Hello, With the new camera, I am not able too "look around" when holding right mouse button like I was used to. From the Dev Blog I couldn't tell if this is a feature or a bug. Nevertheless is bothering me way more than it should.
I'm interested in this as I use this feature a lot. Looking around and zooming into any direction is useful. The new camera seems restricting in a way. |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
1994
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 11:56:45 -
[310] - Quote
Hey CCP, could you please do something about the weird vertical movement of the camera? It's so slow!
Signature Tanking Best Tanking
Retired Exploration Frontier Inc [Ex-F] CEO - Ex-BRAVE - Eve-guides.fr
|
|
Sayod Physulem
EVE University Ivy League
42
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 12:02:22 -
[311] - Quote
Just realized that you want us to post here now, so I am just copy and pasting from the other thread
Orbiting Camera When I tried the new orbiting camera for the first time it felt weird and gave me a sick feeling (motion sickness?). So I tried to find out what caused it and noticed that the ship was not truly centred all the time. Later I found out that this was this "Feature"
Quote:Ship position on screen is offset based on the speed vector of your ship, giving a much improved sense of speed and movement. So I deactivated that "Feature" I disabled other options like camera bobbing and so on on the old camera already. After removing that FOV thing aswell the camera felt somewhat okay (so after I disabled all cinematic features)
Increasing the camera speed to 2.5-3 times made it feel somewhat sharp (still a little bit washy though) and responsive and fast (this is actually better than the old camera in my opinion - when I switched back to the old camera later I missed the the faster scrolling and movement)
Anyway with all those settings disabled the camera actually felt good, and I thought I could get used to it. Then I scouted the chain saw a couple of active towers on d-scan, so I wanted to scan them down. "Oh damnit, there is no tracking camera - well I guess I'll have to click C every single time I want to try a different moon, that is anoying - oh well." *Clicks C* Camera moves around, like usual the ship moves in front of the moon, ... ... but the camera doesn't stop there and the ship drifts to the side of the sceen. This is already odd enough - I mean I disabled this stupid "Feature" that the ship position gets offset already, so I don't want it to be different for the tracking camera. But the worst thing is still coming: It does not show the tower at 5-¦. But the moon I am looking at, is the only moon that is at the correct range. So I warp there anyway and find the POS.
At this point the new camera died for me. - Longer look at range - Faster Movement (even though it could maybe be a little bit more precise) - Multilock is nice All those features don't matter if there is no working tracking camera. Please bring that camera back and fix that ship offset - or at least give the option to disable that aswell .
I always thought of EVEs UI as one of the best game UIs because it doesn't have any unnecessary gimmicks that "are cool" but an artless tool you can modify, which helps you against your enemy. I don't want to have to fight the UI first, so that I can fight the enemy after that. Like a doctor doesn't want a sword instead of a scalpel just because some people think that would be cool. I want a UI that feels empowering not annoying.
Tactical Camera Generally very nice. A single key to center the camera position back on your own ship without searching it in space and clicking "look at" would probably help a lot. I didn't experiment too much with it yet. Still have to try if manual piloting works in that. Probably not as good as in orbit camera, but will see.
First Person Camera Nice Gimmick. That is about it. |
Korozaa Akuma
Yomi-no-kuni
3
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 13:36:33 -
[312] - Quote
I don't know if its been said in the previous 300 posts.... but whenever using "look at" with the new camera. It automatically disables as soon as the target starts to align for warp, where as the old system it did not disable till warp was actually initiated. |
Vulcan Xadi
EVE University Ivy League
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 14:24:19 -
[313] - Quote
I'd like to support the previous posts.
The default settings introduce nausea and the tracking toggle button is something I've comfortably used for years. I can see that some of the issues have been fixed, but it seems clear that it should never have been rolled out to the live environment in the first place, without a lot more testing.
I only know one thing about game development, and that's that a developer should never get between the player and the game. Messing with the game controls is annoying and seems like a very silly mistake (proven by the previous 16 pages of comments).
So, please return the functionality of the previous camera, add as much as you like afterwards but don't take away. |
Tyranis Marcus
Bloody Heathens
1465
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 15:02:45 -
[314] - Quote
The new cameras are ****. Things don't work as described. The C key now does nothing at all for me. The orbit camera breaks easily, and I have to turn the new camera off and back on to get a recognizable view of anything back. With 8 wardecs going on, I don't have time for this game ruining bullshit.
GIVE US BACK TOGGLE TRACKING MODE VIA THE C KEY.
Never EVER remove the option to opt out from this disaster.
And fire some dumb motherfuckers, imo.
Do not run. We are your friends.
|
Mister Ripley
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
162
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 15:06:35 -
[315] - Quote
Mil Hegirin wrote:Some reasons I don't use the new camera
- D-Scan is harder to use - lost functionality
- C must be held down to use the tracking camera. Every. Single. Time.
- The Fishbowl effect - most pronounced when warping
- Camera inertia - literally worthless
- The tactical grid camera's pivot point is nigh impossible to manipulate, making it largely useless for subcaps
- First person is cool, but has no practical value
- FOV sliding. RIP my sense of distance. RIP my ability to make minor adjustments on the fly
Many of the changes are cool for movie makers, and clunky for everyone else. Clunky means poor design Oh look. This must be a copy of at least half of the posts in the test server feedback thread... |
Jarrec DuMorne
Concordiat Spaceship Samurai
3
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 15:27:12 -
[316] - Quote
So, i have done a little bit of testing, and its actually true, that most of the stuff that makes this new camera unusable can be switched off. A few points remain...
* Right-click Freelook and Zoom is important and does not work in the current version * The tracking camera with adjustable point of interest, as many others have described
I would still rather use the old one, but if these points get fixed, I guess I can live with it... (It still boggles my mind that such effort is being invested into making the game a worse experience...) |
Ashlar Maidstone
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
207
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 15:50:20 -
[317] - Quote
Re.; New Camera
Prognosis; a 'new camera' is being introduced for use to replace the 'old camera' and it's subsequent variations there of.
Analysis; after numerous consultations regarding this new camera and numerous comments I feel that even then CCP does NOT know of the possible resulting use in regards to motion sickness that's been stated so far would have an undesirable effect and therefore render a user unable to commit to any action desired.
Analysis; new camera does NOT give a 'feel' of cinematics as claimed by CCP.
Analysis, Auto Tracking removed, numerous key inputs to track other objects are required to accomplish what was a very simple click in the old camera.
Analysis, Instead of a complete all-in-one package as the old camera is used, I question the reasoning behind going with "Three" cameras and their use, and also the reasoning behind introducing more keyboard short cuts to accomplish one simple act of camera usage.
Summary; While it is regarded as a Quality of Life improvement, it's very evident that CCP is not going to back down and take a look at what's been said, and proceed to "force" this change no matter what's been said, and to remove an old stable camera that has enjoyed such success in the time gone by
The older camera while written on older code is in my opinion far more useful than what this new camera is and beats the new camera fair and square. Given a time line of just a few weeks of removing the old camera will have undesirable results to all parties concerned
While I also agree with a number of people already that if and when the day comes that I am forced to use the new camera, then it's so long it was a nice ride while it lasted. |
Wacktopia
Noir. Mercenary Coalition
826
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 21:14:34 -
[318] - Quote
Good
* Orbit / 3rd person gives a nice perspective and scale to the ships
* Despite not seeing a direct purpose I do like 1st person camera view
No-So-Good
* Please re-enable the right click to look around. I had to disable new camera controls because I'm so used to using right click to look around and both buttons to then zoom
* Camera pan / ship rotation feels sluggish in 3rd person / orbit
Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together - -áFleet-Up.com
|
Harrigan VonStudly
Original Sinners Tactical Narcotics Team
119
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 23:07:35 -
[319] - Quote
I don't like the new camera at all. The speed setting is ok. It's a nice feature to add to the old camera. Removing tracking by clicking on an object, be it on the overview, or in space, is a huge huge mistake. I hope you do NOT do that.
The first person camera is useless imo. It may be ok for those weirdos sitting there making airplane engine noises while shooting rats.
Really do not want to see the tracking feature removed. Maybe make it on/off. Having to hit "c" every time is ass. |
Ashterothi
Aideron Robotics
354
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 00:18:05 -
[320] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Hey guys, one last update from us before the weekend.
First of all, thanks for all the feedback. We canGÇÖt answer everyoneGÇÿs questions and concerns, but rest assured we are actively monitoring the forums.
To the players that feel nauseous when using the camera, please try playing with some of the camera settings in the Esc menu. Try turning of dynamic FOV and speed offset, and try increasing the camera speed. If you still experience nausea or discomfort, please continue to provide further details with the settings you have tried.
Now on to D-Scan. We have been bouncing around some ideas and came up with a new prototype way to D-Scan that I just put up on our Singularity test server where it will remain over the weekend. If you have the time and interest, please try getting on there and trying it out. It works like this: Hold down V and click something to D-scan it. V also opens up the D-scan window if it is not already open, and is a bindable shortcut key. Yes, you still have to hold down a keyboard button to scan quickly, but it only takes 1 click and the results begin populating instantly in the D-scan window. This effectively reduces keystrokes and speeds up the whole process, making it faster and easier than ever before! After a scan, the GÇÿScanGÇÖ button grays out until the 2 second cooldown has elapsed, at which point the button blinks a little bit to let you know you can perform a new scan. Please leave any feedback for this prototype feature in this thread.
Hope you all have an awesome spaceship-filled weekend, CCP Turtlebutt // Team Psycho Sisters
So I am kinda digging the V-click thing, but what is with the slow fade in readout? Nerf to dscan incoming?
Listen to Hydrostatic Podcast for all your Empyrean needs!
|
|
Drake III
Blame The Bunny The Dark Nation
13
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 01:29:36 -
[321] - Quote
Is there a way to keep the view always centered on the ship in orbit view? Bugs me when the ship is off to one side during warp |
Dalto Bane
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
177
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 01:54:22 -
[322] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Manic Velocity wrote:According to the devblog, by this time next month you won't have a choice between the two. It will no longer be "the new camera", it will just be "the camera". Holy ****. I didn't even see that. CCP, listen very carefully now: You CANNOT remove the option for the old, working camera without having fully and completely recreated every last aspect of it in your new system. All of it. No exception. No Gǣkind of the same, butGǪGǥ, and definitely no Gǣit's better now becauseGǪGǥ. It must have every singe option and functionality that the old camera has: the direct and precise movement; the simple look-at and tracking functionality; the ability to track warps; the ability to simply rclick-unhook the camera from its current direction and then have it immediately snap back; always focusing on your ship etc etc etc. All the things people have been telling you for ages now. If you remove it, there are no two ways about it and no delicate way of saying it: you are stupid. You are incompetent. You are not actually listening to the wave of feedback you're getting, and any attempt at claiming otherwise is a lie. Stop it. Step back, swallow your pride, stop blubbering, and give your customers the one thing they're asking for: a properly working camera. Remember what happens every time you have an GǣawesomeGǥ idea that doesn't work in practice, and realise that this is one of those moments. Again. Jesus ******* christ. Why does this keep happening?! How are you so incapable of learning such a ridiculously simple lesson?! WTF is wrong with you?
Truth. It is hard for me to believe that you are not allowing the old cam to remain as an alternative indefinitely given the feedback thus far.
Keep old tracking cam the way it is, bring back right click pan, keep zoom and x-y pan and rotate on the same strength without the give it has now. Functionality over aesthetics.
Drops Mic
|
Soltys
73
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 02:56:38 -
[323] - Quote
You know CCP, if you:
- add a toggle or remove silly sound effects - keep full functionality of toggle based tracking camera (should be trivial if the new code is better, right ?) - as it's superior in so many cases (combat especially) - remove 'C', and - keep current (SiSi 14-2-2016) behavior of dscan refresh that can be used to track at the same time WITHOUT ZOOM CHANGES - add separate sliders for: -- FoV (and remove alt+mouse as it conflicts with probe re-ranging), -- horizontal sensitivity -- vertical sensitivity -- inertia level (from 0 to some "max cool" video nonsense)
Then eveyrone would pretty much be happy and this and other threads wouldn't even exist.
Why are you so f* stubborn ?
Jita Flipping Inc.: Solmp / Kovl
|
Ronald Timerson
Ubiquitous Hurt The WeHurt Initiative
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 03:22:48 -
[324] - Quote
I am really not the biggest fan of the new camera change. Personally i feel like there was nothing wrong with the old systems and if its not broken why try to "fix" it?
Please reconsider making this a perminant change and leave the settings alone. If nothing else, give us the options to keep the old settings, or use the news ones.
Thank you! |
Bruce Kemp
Rancer Customs Control Group
138
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 04:34:53 -
[325] - Quote
Conjaq wrote:I like the idea, and i welcome a new camera. but.....
* The scroll speed when zooming in and out, is uncontrollable * The camera movement orbit function feels sluggish....
And worst of all * I get nausea using it.. Rendering it completely impossible to use.
This,
-áIf people played EVE as much as they posted rubbish on these forums, they might enjoy the game.
|
Sgt Ocker
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
822
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 04:36:54 -
[326] - Quote
Is there really any need for This to happen on every gate jump
When This is what should happen
Oh and the all new delayed Dscan - Sorry but just NO
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
|
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
407
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 06:14:15 -
[327] - Quote
For feedback, earlier on I posted a video showing how when I selected an object and activated the tracking camera and then tried to manually adjust the camera it would spin 180 deg and zoom WAY out on the ship. I don't know what may have been changed since that post though and I don't think anything was hotfixed but it is no longer exhibiting that behavior. I undocked in the same ship and tried to recreate it and now it does give a little jerk in the camera's movement that is a little jarring but the full 180 and zoom change isn't happening That being the case I assume it must be some sort of bug. So something is definitely a little wonky in the code but I don't think that its something that was intentionally put in.
Daemun of Khanid
|
Jeven HouseBenyo
Fifty Shades of Funkyness LLC
351
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 09:45:40 -
[328] - Quote
It dawned on me early Saturday evening while I was binge watching some T.V. series.
This is very similar to the outcry that came from the Overview Icon change. The one where there was a strong (on forums at least) request to at least keep the 'Classic/Legacy' Icons for those that preferred them for several reasons. How did that turn out? And as for the backhanded offer of a customizable set of icons in return for the outright removal of the old ones, umm, where are they? I can't seem to find the right clicky, tab, or drop menu to fiddle with them.
The reason CCP Turtlepower and that team are responding in what appears to be a tonedeaf way over this new camera, wanting tweak suggestions and (so far mind you, things might change) refusing to backtrack on the death of the old camera in a month or so is the same reason the old icon choices are still not choices in a custom method. The call's been made further up his foodchain, kill that old camera, any customers that leave are nothing more than dead weight anyways and Eve can afford to lose them. After all, newbies are swarming to Eve, and staying for a year or two at a time, what does CCP need with bitter vets? (or not quite vets?)
I'm not holding my breath I'll get access to the old camera in a month or so.
I'm not holding my breath on finding that well-hidden set of custom icons for my overview.
I'm not expecting to finish my reading of all the Regions flavor text that was in their description tab.
And I'm not expecting to throw more money into the CCP slush fund since this new camera asks me to 'evolve or HTFU' out of my vertigo issue. Sorry, looks like I'll (likely) have to GTFO.
At least I'm not paid too far in advance on my three still active accounts, right? My wound isn't too deep. Feeling kind of bad for those that have a year or more of time paid for, and will have to figure their own way around the sea sickness to use the product they paid to access..
*-*-*
Or CCP could shock me. They could do as their paying customers are asking. The old camera could stay. A backtrack might just happen. They could follow through on promises months and up to 2 years ago made. (can only speak for the time I've been here)
My odds, alas, are probably better at winning a Cash 5 drawing...
>Jeven
Minny boat flyer, unofficial squeaky wheel.
'Game Ethics and Morality Monitor' I remember promises.
Snark at 11-24/7/365.25. Overshare? Yup.
Yes it's my fault. And if you don't staap it I'll do it again. ;-P
No you can't has my stuffs OR my SPs.
|
ArmEagle Kusoni
Knights of Nii The 20 Minuters
43
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 10:28:52 -
[329] - Quote
DJB16 wrote:DJB16 wrote:CCP Turtlepower wrote:Hello everyone!
GÇóAtmospheric noises in Tactical and First Person cameras are too loud We are tweaking these today.
Fly safe CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
dont just tweek the damn thing GIVE US THE OPTION TO TURN THEM OFF TOTALY ill say is again dont just tweek the NOISE give us the ability to REMOVE THE NOISE without muting EVERYTHING Totall off topic. But if this is the static sounds when hovering over a signature then; YES, add it as a sound option with volume slider! (or just a toggle checkbox if it was just me). |
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF Bad Intention
3
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 11:18:46 -
[330] - Quote
Well I posted this in what I thought was the official thread, but I guess I was mistaken. Here it is again.
Every time I see something about the camera in patch notes I try it for a while, but every time so far it has given me a headache after about 10 minutes. The laggy feeling when rotating or zooming the camera seems to be the biggest issue. Even after turning off dynamic field of view and setting the camera speed to max it still feels uncomfortable to rotate or zoom the camera. Almost like setting the camera speed to max still doesn't completely get rid of the inertia effect and it remains just strong enough to be noticeable.
So here's the list of issues I've noticed, starting with orbit mode: 1. Even at max camera speed, panning and zooming the camera still have too much of that inertia feeling. Perhaps a 16x or 32x camera speed setting would be responsive enough, but having the option to completely remove the inertia effect would be ideal. 2. Adjusting the camera vertically is far too slow. The same amount of input should result in the same change in angle both horizontally and vertically. 3. When tracking an object in orbit mode the ship moves off to the side. That's very bad because that almost always means my ship is behind a window and I can't see what's hitting me. How about letting us chose the position of the tracked item and leave our ship where it belongs? 3a. When starting to track something, the ship can snap to its new position so quickly that it's hard to keep any sense of direction, especially since the camera is rotating at the same time. 3b. When looking at a large object like a station and tracking something, the camera glitches out horribly. Effects range from looking in a random direction when tracking a distant object, to the camera spinning uncontrollably or repeatedly zooming in and snapping back out when tracking a closer object. This behavior is because of moving the "Look At" object to the side when tracking is activated. 4. As everyone else has said, having to manually track each new object is really awkward compared to toggling a mode and having it track whatever is selected. 5. Why is there a Look At option as well as a Track option on the right click menu for distant objects? Both options seem to do the exact same thing. More issues with tactical mode: 6. The zoom in and out when toggling tactical view feels really uncontrolled and laggy. Please stop with this bouncy, drifty stuff! 6a. It also seems to assume that the camera is zoomed in closer in orbit view than in tactical view, so if you're zoomed out farther the camera seems to zoom the wrong way for a moment then quickly snap to the right distance. 7. Tactical view doesn't save your zoom distance, unlike orbit view. So every time activating tactical view it goes to the default zoom level. 8. When tracking an object in tactical view the camera rotates around the camera position, not the rotation point when controlled manually. That moves the focal point, and if done while warping results in some crazy zooming out and back in as it tries to stay with your ship. 9. Tracking an object in tactical view while not warping causes the camera to stop following whatever it was looking at (like your ship). It would be much more intuitive if the camera would continue to move with whatever it's looking at while pointing in the direction of the object it's tracking. 10. Free moving the camera is awkward since it can only be moved perpendicular to the direction of view. There needs to be some way to move the focal point directly toward or away from the camera. Perhaps alt+zoom like for field of view in orbit mode? 11. It's very hard to tell where the camera's focal point is after zooming. Some kind of visual indicator of where exactly you're looking could be very helpful. Adding the option to move the focal point towards or away from the camera would help overcome this issue though. And first person mode: 12. First person mode seems to have a very strange field of view. I can't tell if it's too narrow or too wide, but there's some weird fisheye effects going on and it's hard to judge distance. 13. The tactical overlay in first person mode is useless since the plane cuts right through the middle of the camera. Perhaps offsetting the shaded plane and distances to a bit below the ship could help, but that would be a little odd coming from third person views. In any case, the overlay is useless without some perspective to judge distances.
Despite all these issues, I see a vast improvement in the last couple months, so keep up the good work! |
|
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
10801
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 12:53:56 -
[331] - Quote
I can't remember if I've posted here or not (or that this has been addressed - I'm sure it has, though), but the new camera options cause bad motion sickness in me and other players, too.
Deselecting all of the new camera options and bringing the system basically to where it was before helps a lot, but it would be criminal to remove the option to go back to the old style altogether.
As an experiment, I turned on the new camera options again last night (they had been turned off since the new release) - after just a few minutes, I had a pounding headache and felt really nauseated, but I persisted, thinking I could power through it. I was wrong. A few more minutes later, I retched and vomited, and my headache was so bad I just had to log off and go to bed. I did not feel good at all, to be honest.
To CCP: by all means, please leave the new camera options there if people like them - but, for the love of God, please don't take away the option for the 'classic' camera. Thanks!
Got a HoleySheet1 corpse? I'll buy it for 200m!
Bumble's Space Log
|
Josef Djugashvilis
3272
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 13:14:05 -
[332] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:I can't remember if I've posted here or not (or that this has been addressed - I'm sure it has, though), but the new camera options cause bad motion sickness in me and other players, too.
Deselecting all of the new camera options and bringing the system basically to where it was before helps a lot, but it would be criminal to remove the option to go back to the old style altogether.
As an experiment, I turned on the new camera options again last night (they had been turned off since the new release) - after just a few minutes, I had a pounding headache and felt really nauseated, but I persisted, thinking I could power through it. I was wrong. A few more minutes later, I retched and vomited, and my headache was so bad I just had to log off and go to bed. I did not feel good at all, to be honest.
To CCP: by all means, please leave the new camera options there if people like them - but, for the love of God, please don't take away the option for the 'classic' camera. Thanks!
CCP will probably argue that it is not possible to keep the old camera option, and anyway, they will say, it is obvious from the overwhelming positive responses on the forum that the new camera is welcomed by all.
All CCP have to do now, is to work out how to monetize the new camera...purely in the interest of the new players of course.
This is not a signature.
|
Joffy Aulx-Gao
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
85
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 13:49:07 -
[333] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Hey guys, one last update from us before the weekend.
First of all, thanks for all the feedback. We canGÇÖt answer everyoneGÇÿs questions and concerns, but rest assured we are actively monitoring the forums.
To the players that feel nauseous when using the camera, please try playing with some of the camera settings in the Esc menu. Try turning of dynamic FOV and speed offset, and try increasing the camera speed. If you still experience nausea or discomfort, please continue to provide further details with the settings you have tried.
Now on to D-Scan. We have been bouncing around some ideas and came up with a new prototype way to D-Scan that I just put up on our Singularity test server where it will remain over the weekend. If you have the time and interest, please try getting on there and trying it out. It works like this: Hold down V and click something to D-scan it. V also opens up the D-scan window if it is not already open, and is a bindable shortcut key. Yes, you still have to hold down a keyboard button to scan quickly, but it only takes 1 click and the results begin populating instantly in the D-scan window. This effectively reduces keystrokes and speeds up the whole process, making it faster and easier than ever before! After a scan, the GÇÿScanGÇÖ button grays out until the 2 second cooldown has elapsed, at which point the button blinks a little bit to let you know you can perform a new scan. Please leave any feedback for this prototype feature in this thread.
Hope you all have an awesome spaceship-filled weekend, CCP Turtlebutt // Team Psycho Sisters Hello CCP Turtlepower
As a disabled player who is a lowsec pirate, the d-scan changes will negatively impact me if they remain as stated above. I am unable to use a keyboard except for an onscreen one, and this makes me unable to hold a keybind down while clicking in space. Whilst I realise that the changes may be beneficial, I would request that the current method of camera tracking d-scan remain available as an option, perhaps as a toggle option.
I'm a lowsec pirate, diplo of A Band Apart and a CSM candidate
CSM Campaign
CSM Interview
|
Rixx Javix
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
525
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 14:00:27 -
[334] - Quote
The new camera options are gorgeous and with a little work they can be incredible. For certain applications. However, it cannot be ignored that they are relatively useless for typical day-to-day play in most situations. Without further development and an effective snap-to feature that actually works and doesn't require additional key-strokes - the current "new" camera system is more harmful than helpful for day-to-day play.
It seems that this challenge could be easily rectified by including ALL cameras as optional. If that is impossible, then the new system remains a BETA that is in serious need of further development.
While there is no doubt the new system allows for amazing views and potential dramatic video, it is challenging to use effectively in normal combat situations.
http://eveoganda.blogspot.com
|
ArmyOfMe
BANISHED. The WeHurt Initiative
587
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 14:20:23 -
[335] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:
GÇóI am not able to "look around" when holding right mouse button like I was used to. This is intended, that feature was not included in the new camera. If you use the tactical view you can look anywhere on the grid!
Please bring back this feature. Its one of the things i used the most in eve.
QUOTE CCP Dolan and the EVE Online development team:-áThe battle was relatively even for some time with CFC and Russian forces holding moderate lead at first and only have a slight lead in Titan kills. Then came a turning point in the battle. Manfred Sideous, the initial Fleet Commander for PL/N3, handed over command to the CEO of Northern Coalition., Vince Draken
|
Daniel Westelius
Specter Syndicate Circle-Of-Two
5
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 16:10:09 -
[336] - Quote
Has CCP addressed the known issues with the new camera of: 1) When you jump to a cyno or through a jump bridge the camera freezes and nothing loads on grid 2) Each time you jump (in any fashion) your tactical overlay gets turned off
If you are going to make this new camera mandatory please fix these 2 issues because it is unplayable. I had to revert to the old camera because of it. |
DaReaper
Net 7
2758
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 17:20:55 -
[337] - Quote
Daniel Westelius wrote:Has CCP addressed the known issues with the new camera of: 1) When you jump to a cyno or through a jump bridge the camera freezes and nothing loads on grid 2) Each time you jump (in any fashion) your tactical overlay gets turned off
If you are going to make this new camera mandatory please fix these 2 issues because it is unplayable. I had to revert to the old camera because of it.
i have not seen this issue. so maybe they fixed it
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
Yes i am optimistic about eve.. i'm giving it till dec 31st 2016 before i doom n gloom
|
DaReaper
Net 7
2758
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 17:23:46 -
[338] - Quote
As an aside:
to everyone pissing and moaning that ccp should play there game and then they would know what you all are talking about. Re: tracking camera, i have played eve for 12 years, scanned a lot of that and i have no ******* idea what you all are whining about with tracking. The new camera works just how i always used said camera. This is why they ask for videos and pictures, just because you and the guys you fly with use a tool a certain way, doesn't mean others do as well. This is why its best to show them what you are doing and how you are using things so they can understand what the **** you are talking about.
Stop being idiots and bitching at the devs and give them evidence of what is broken so they can try and fix it. Sheesh
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
Yes i am optimistic about eve.. i'm giving it till dec 31st 2016 before i doom n gloom
|
Josef Djugashvilis
3274
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 19:02:12 -
[339] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:As an aside:
to everyone pissing and moaning that ccp should play there game and then they would know what you all are talking about. Re: tracking camera, i have played eve for 12 years, scanned a lot of that and i have no ******* idea what you all are whining about with tracking. The new camera works just how i always used said camera. This is why they ask for videos and pictures, just because you and the guys you fly with use a tool a certain way, doesn't mean others do as well. This is why its best to show them what you are doing and how you are using things so they can understand what the **** you are talking about.
Stop being idiots and bitching at the devs and give them evidence of what is broken so they can try and fix it. Sheesh
Golly! be careful not to hurt yourself when you fall off your high horse.
This is not a signature.
|
Kazi Kugisa
EVE University Ivy League
50
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 19:23:41 -
[340] - Quote
OK, I tried the new v on SISI, what is that supposed to do? It doesn't repoint the camera in my testing. I still have to hit c first before hitting v. We already have a button to do dscan. I don't need a button to open it up. I have it open all the time. Was v supposed to repoint the camera to what was clicked and then DSCAN? That is not what I am getting. My camera still doesn't move unless I hit C.
If this is as intended, the interface is still clunky and unusable for high level DSCAN scouting because it is still two button presses and not one. |
|
Soltys
76
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 19:26:35 -
[341] - Quote
Quote:The new camera works just how i always used said camera. This is why they ask for videos and pictures, just because you and the guys you fly with use a tool a certain way, doesn't mean others do as well.
People have been explaining the issues for one fourth of a year in so many ways it's somewhere between amusing and sad at this point.
Quote:OK, I tried the new v on SIS, what is that supposed to do? It doesn't repoint the camera in my testing. I still have to hit c first before hitting v. We already have a button to do dscan. I don't need a button to open it up. I have it open all the time. Was v supposed to repoint the camera to what was clicked and then DSCAN? That is not what I am getting. My camera still doesn't move unless I hit C.
Keep 'v' pressed down and then select stuff in overview / space. No need to touch 'c'.
It's significantly better than 'c', but still requires one key to be pressed all the time (not mentioning wicked zoom outs when choosing different bodies).
Jita Flipping Inc.: Solmp / Kovl
|
Alea
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
213
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 19:27:04 -
[342] - Quote
Jeven HouseBenyo wrote:It dawned on me early Saturday evening while I was binge watching some T.V. series.
This is very similar to the outcry that came from the Overview Icon change. The one where there was a strong (on forums at least) request to at least keep the 'Classic/Legacy' Icons for those that preferred them for several reasons. How did that turn out? And as for the backhanded offer of a customizable set of icons in return for the outright removal of the old ones, umm, where are they? I can't seem to find the right clicky, tab, or drop menu to fiddle with them.
>Jeven
For me those tiny icons killed my solo pvp career, I still can't see those tiny bastards very well at all, specially if there are allot of pilots on grid, had new glasses made just to help me play Eve but still my eyesight is too bad, CCP pretty much let us players with bad eyesight down.
I still pvp with my alliance but that's the extent of it, I'm a CAP pilot my choice so I can take more time to "find" who I'm supposed to be lobbing projectiles at, if I was in anything smaller I would not be able to pvp at all I don't think.
Whomever is making the last couple years decisions on what coding changes are to be implemented in this game must hate Eve with all their being.
|
Alea
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
213
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 19:33:40 -
[343] - Quote
Joffy Aulx-Gao wrote: As a disabled player who is a lowsec pirate, the d-scan changes will negatively impact me if they remain as stated above. I am unable to use a keyboard except for an onscreen one, and this makes me unable to hold a keybind down while clicking in space. Whilst I realise that the changes may be beneficial, I would request that the current method of camera tracking d-scan remain available as an option, perhaps as a toggle option.
CCP could care less about a persons handicap, those tiny space icons are proof of that, I have bad eyesight and had to drastically change my play style because of them, all I needed was the old style icons as an option but that was too much work to appease a small portion of the player base so was omitted.
Whomever is making the last couple years decisions on what coding changes are to be implemented in this game must hate Eve with all their being.
|
Kazi Kugisa
EVE University Ivy League
50
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 19:34:55 -
[344] - Quote
Soltys wrote:[
Keep 'v' pressed down and then select stuff in overview / space. No need to touch 'c'.
It's significantly better than 'c', but still requires one key to be pressed all the time (not mentioning wicked zoom outs when choosing different bodies).
That's even worse than hitting c and then v. What other command in this game do you just hold and keep mashing a keyboard key? It is high level poor game design. You are trapping a hand in one position. I see no way that this is an acceptable option and is also very disabled unfriendly. There should NEVER be a case where you just have to keep mashing one key continuously. I would be fine with a click object and then hit v to dscan as long as hitting v moves the camera. Holding the v key down all the time is a terrible idea from a UI standpoint. |
Alea
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
213
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 19:46:12 -
[345] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:As an aside:
to everyone pissing and moaning that ccp should play there game and then they would know what you all are talking about. Re: tracking camera, i have played eve for 12 years, scanned a lot of that and i have no ******* idea what you all are whining about with tracking. The new camera works just how i always used said camera. This is why they ask for videos and pictures, just because you and the guys you fly with use a tool a certain way, doesn't mean others do as well. This is why its best to show them what you are doing and how you are using things so they can understand what the **** you are talking about.
Stop being idiots and bitching at the devs and give them evidence of what is broken so they can try and fix it. Sheesh
If some of the devs would actually play the game that they write code for none of this sh1tstorm would be happening.
Whomever is making the last couple years decisions on what coding changes are to be implemented in this game must hate Eve with all their being.
|
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33329
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 19:57:09 -
[346] - Quote
I've submitted a support ticket for this as well. But so it gets out to more devs I want to add it here:
Pan camera bound to right-click sucks. When I right-click on a station or for a right-click menu in space, it pans my camera off center. I want to bind that to something other than one of my primary EVE buttons.
I've bound Alt-1 (Tactical Camera) to a G-key as a return-to-center shortcut for the camera. That works well enough.
I've un-bound Track completely because until it becomes useful somehow I won't use it.
If right-click pan is a setting in shortcuts I can change, please enlighten me. I can't find it.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
|
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33329
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 20:04:22 -
[347] - Quote
What is track even for? If it's meant to replace Look At then why doesn't the camera stay with the object?
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
|
Soltys
76
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 20:25:00 -
[348] - Quote
Quote:That's even worse than hitting c and then v. What other command in this game do you just hold and keep mashing a keyboard key? It is high level poor game design. You are trapping a hand in one position. I see no way that this is an acceptable option and is also very disabled unfriendly. There should NEVER be a case where you just have to keep mashing one key continuously.
Not mashing down, just keep it pressed down (once) then click whatever targets you want dscanned with narrow cone. Sure I still prefer old trigger appraoch, but FWIW 'v' better than having to press 'c' separately for each entity.
Jita Flipping Inc.: Solmp / Kovl
|
Kazi Kugisa
EVE University Ivy League
50
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 20:35:58 -
[349] - Quote
Soltys wrote:Quote:That's even worse than hitting c and then v. What other command in this game do you just hold and keep mashing a keyboard key? It is high level poor game design. You are trapping a hand in one position. I see no way that this is an acceptable option and is also very disabled unfriendly. There should NEVER be a case where you just have to keep mashing one key continuously. Not mashing down, just keep it pressed down (once) then click whatever targets you want dscanned with narrow cone. Sure I still prefer old trigger appraoch, but FWIW 'v' better than having to press 'c' separately for each entity.
If I'm in a system with 20 asteroid belts looking for ratters, I have to keep the V key mashed while I click through 20 belts. It's clunky and the dscan occasionally restarts before I can fully check when it catches POS trash. It adds a bit of time and that time is just extra time for the prey to escape if they are flying correctly.
Really, it comes down to is game design: why is this change even needed, what purpose does it serve and who does it hurt (intentionally or not). If CCP wants to nerf DSCAN, they should just explain why they think it needs to be nerfed. What I really think is the case is that they are just not interested in doing the coding to make the old functionality work in the new camera. That is not game design at all. That would just be deciding they don't want to spend the money to pay the coders to write the code. Two very different reasons. |
Jeven HouseBenyo
Fifty Shades of Funkyness LLC
355
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 20:41:31 -
[350] - Quote
Alea wrote:Jeven HouseBenyo wrote:It dawned on me early Saturday evening while I was binge watching some T.V. series.
This is very similar to the outcry that came from the Overview Icon change. The one where there was a strong (on forums at least) request to at least keep the 'Classic/Legacy' Icons for those that preferred them for several reasons. How did that turn out? And as for the backhanded offer of a customizable set of icons in return for the outright removal of the old ones, umm, where are they? I can't seem to find the right clicky, tab, or drop menu to fiddle with them.
>Jeven For me those tiny icons killed my solo pvp career, I still can't see those tiny bastards very well at all, specially if there are allot of pilots on grid, had new glasses made just to help me play Eve but still my eyesight is too bad, CCP pretty much let us players with bad eyesight down. I still pvp with my alliance but that's the extent of it, I'm a CAP pilot my choice so I can take more time to "find" who I'm supposed to be lobbing projectiles at, if I was in anything smaller I would not be able to pvp at all I don't think.
The overview icon change, and the custom choices still not being choices, put my plan to get more PvP experience (so I don't suck quite as bad as I do now! Ha!) on the shelf. I can't see the detail on smaller icons to know which is which at a glance. Bad eyesight, even with updated glasses, won't give the clean, clear crisp detail I need.
If the old camera is removed as is CCP's currrent plan in a month or so, I won't be able to play at all, even hiding out in asteroid belts or mission sites. The clean, crisp, clear, and precise detail and control from the camera won't be there. Instead it's camera on a bobber on a high wind advisory day at the lake. No. Due to the same eyesight problem that is nixing PvP experience gaining combined with the vertigo this new camera is triggering while it wanders where I did NOT tell it to go, are issues I can't just 'work around, tweak settings, and accept without other options' with force of will, determination, and sheer guts. Sorry, can't force my eyes to 'evolve' back to a perfect 20/20 diagnosis.
Old camera goes, so do I. Nothing too personal CCP. Just an entertainment dollar business decision.
>Jeven
Minny boat flyer, unofficial squeaky wheel.
'Game Ethics and Morality Monitor' I remember promises.
Snark at 11-24/7/365.25. Overshare? Yup.
Yes it's my fault. And if you don't staap it I'll do it again. ;-P
No you can't has my stuffs OR my SPs.
|
|
Stefan Silviu
Knowledge is Money - Money is Power
16
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 20:43:14 -
[351] - Quote
please keep the option to use the old camera or alow us to set the new camera to work like old one
thx |
Ashterothi
Aideron Robotics
358
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 20:51:04 -
[352] - Quote
Alea wrote:DaReaper wrote:As an aside:
to everyone pissing and moaning that ccp should play there game and then they would know what you all are talking about. Re: tracking camera, i have played eve for 12 years, scanned a lot of that and i have no ******* idea what you all are whining about with tracking. The new camera works just how i always used said camera. This is why they ask for videos and pictures, just because you and the guys you fly with use a tool a certain way, doesn't mean others do as well. This is why its best to show them what you are doing and how you are using things so they can understand what the **** you are talking about.
Stop being idiots and bitching at the devs and give them evidence of what is broken so they can try and fix it. Sheesh If some of the devs would actually play the game that they write code for none of this sh1tstorm would be happening. Fun fact: it is almost no where true where the person writing the code is also writing the requirements.
The developers have a list of user stories:
"A user can use a modifier key to scan an object by clicking on it"
"A user can view a delayed D-Scan"
"A user can view a camera that tracks an object selected"
etc.
Within those stories are often pictures, descriptions, and acceptance tests that define what constitutes a "passed" story.
When you give feedback, some of that feedback is stored in the form of these tickets, those tickets are generally assigned points, and then pulled into the scope of work for a sprint. Sprints are generally 2 weeks. Now, a lot of the internals of CCP has changed in recent years, but that is the fundamentals of Agile development.
Whether or not a coder play's the thing they code for actually means very little. That would be like saying an interpreter at a concert has to also listen to that artist's music. You don't, you just take the requirements, fill them, then send them off to QA for review.
I only say this to offer clarity to what is going on behind the scenes of this big discussion.
Listen to Hydrostatic Podcast for all your Empyrean needs!
|
Sonja Fury
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 21:07:21 -
[353] - Quote
I am one of these players who are getting motion sickness from the camera, The inertia values on the new camera I think is whats causing my motion sickness literally the game is not playable with the new camera for me until it's fixed. I also dislike the track options being in the right click menu, as someone who is a carebear I don't need to track my asteroids I am chewing so please remove it. |
Trajan Unknown
Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops
76
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 21:08:48 -
[354] - Quote
Another day another try. I really want to get used to the new cam since I have to but the tracking thing is still not working. I unchecked all the fancy yet useless features and put the speed to max but when I try to use the tracking it does weird things.
- Shortkey doesn-¦t work except I hit it twice
- When I hit the tracking shortkey twice it feels like the cam is getting "unlocked" from my ship, snapped back to somewhere left/right/above or below my ship and than focused on the object I like to track. Seriously, what is this good for? The same happens when I use "track" on the the selected item window. Now matter how you are trying to sell this as a good feature it is simply a ship killer.
- Using d-scan with the new camera and the new map is simply not efficient at all. Since there is no real tracking anymore it-¦s not possible to d-scan properly using the map. You have to adjust in space while keeping and eye on the map. So the whole new feature on the map with the d-scan bubble/cone became pretty much useless for d-scanning.
Last but not least it seems that some of the old shortkeys are mixed up with the new ones. It-¦s kinda trial and error to find the correct shortcut for the new features. Yes they are in the tooltip but these tracking cam toggle shortkeys are not working at all or I am simply a little to slow in the head to figure out how to use them.
|
Esnaelc Sin'led
The Unchained Club
62
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 21:10:50 -
[355] - Quote
Ashterothi wrote:Whether or not a coder play's the thing they code for actually means very little. That would be like saying an interpreter at a concert has to also listen to that artist's music. You don't, you just take the requirements, fill them, then send them off to QA for review.
That is such a cold point of view on which i'm not agree with at all. To take your example, the difference between a good and a bad interpreter would be if he's listening to that artist's music or not. So it goes for games, the difference between a good or a bad game would be if the code writer is playing this game or not.
It is also known as "passion". Which transpires through the work created. Then emulates, or not. |
Dhugall
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 21:27:56 -
[356] - Quote
Long time lurker, first time poster.
I'm one who has opted out of using the new camera at every stage. I did it for one reason...
I love the simple functionality of clicking on an object on the overview and looking in that direction.
Please provide this function with the new camera. I don't want to hold down a button AND click on the the object in the overview - to me it's a step backwards.
Kind regards,
Dhugall |
Trajan Unknown
Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops
76
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 21:28:09 -
[357] - Quote
Esnaelc Sin'led wrote:Ashterothi wrote:Whether or not a coder play's the thing they code for actually means very little. That would be like saying an interpreter at a concert has to also listen to that artist's music. You don't, you just take the requirements, fill them, then send them off to QA for review. That is such a cold point of view on which i'm not agree with at all. To take your example, the difference between a good and a bad interpreter would be if he's listening to that artist's music or not. So it goes for games, the difference between a good or a bad game would be if the code writer is playing this game or not. It is also known as "passion". Which transpires through the work created. Then emulates, or not.
Actually it-¦s no problem when the people who are coding don-¦t know a single thing about the gameplay. The problem is, that people who told them what to code failed hard to tell the coders what to do. For me it-¦s just lines of code these lines make my customer happy. I know what they are for and I know what the goal is but I can-¦t tell you if no tracking cam or tracking cam is good or bad for the game itself - to keep thing simple. I agree though, that if the coder actually plays the game he knows way better if his work is useful or not. |
Bozar Taelen
Splinter Cell Operations inPanic
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 21:36:12 -
[358] - Quote
Can you please give us an option to get rid of the camera inertia when rotating (that is not speed btw) so we can get fps style rotating responsiveness. That would be a huge improvement for those who want more precise control of their view.
Thank you
|
Kaldacin
Psyonic Legion
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 21:37:21 -
[359] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:[quote=Fzhal] Just trying to help direct you to the setting that does what you want.
That would be a permanent OFF button.
|
DlCard
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
24
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 21:58:50 -
[360] - Quote
New camera is rough on my eyes. Give us the option to permanently keep the old camera
My Youtube Channel (PVP Vids)
http://www.youtube.com/user/DCard77
|
|
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33334
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 22:14:56 -
[361] - Quote
There's a toggle camera look at shortcut, but after assigning it a key, it doesn't work.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
|
KIller Wabbit
Unleashed' Fury Imminent Threat
935
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 22:14:58 -
[362] - Quote
Ashterothi wrote:Alea wrote:
If some of the devs would actually play the game that they write code for none of this sh1tstorm would be happening.
Fun fact: it is almost no where true where the person writing the code is also writing the requirements. *snipping out detailed process of feedback collection and recording* I only say this to offer clarity to what is going on behind the scenes of this big discussion.
Doesn't matter what process they are using to collect player thoughts - it isn't working.
Some actual experience using the things they are messing with would go a long way in stopping the implementation of just plain bad ideas. For example - they changed notifications to add a red flag for every toon that does not have an active skill queue, even if one of the toons on the account is actually training. Anyone that **actually** plays the game more than once a week would know that was a very (insert derogatory word here that ISD won't get their panties wadded over) thing to implement. It's annoying and promotes that CCP is just going for money grabs right now.
|
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33336
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 22:15:49 -
[363] - Quote
a new shortcut menu tab of consolidated camera controls would be greeeat thaaaanks
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
|
Natural CloneKiller
The Phoenix Rising Vendetta Mercenary Group
51
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 22:39:21 -
[364] - Quote
Conjaq wrote:I like the idea, and i welcome a new camera. but.....
* The scroll speed when zooming in and out, is uncontrollable * The camera movement orbit function feels sluggish....
And worst of all * I get nausea using it.. Rendering it completely impossible to use.
I agree the new camera movement is terrible. Personally I went straight back to the old one as pvp with that new camera was shocking.
Please do not get ride of the old one.
|
Gary Webb
Apex Syndicates Limited Expectations
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 22:39:30 -
[365] - Quote
I dont know if this has already been mentioned, I'm at work and dont have time to read all the comments.
First: The new camera zooms you all the way into the back of your ship when you undock. Personally I hate this. It is also very unnerving when undocking a jump freighter and other large ships. Other than that, the orbit camera is great.
Second: Yaw needs to be added to first person camera. and Full 360 degree pitch. I know it could be disorenting but it severly limits the capabilities of manual piloting when you cannot do a full roll or loop. you hit that 180 degree barrier.
Third and final: on the mass targeting (holding CTRL+click drag) to drag the square in space, that square should only target active overview settings. Trying to use it for anyhting other than savlage is impossible, especially on the pirate gate havens. I end up with a full row of snake astroid targets. I also hate the lack of the automatic tracking of selected target and no custom tracking positions! this makes PVP extremely difficult as you cant just click the enemy on the overview and have it snap right to them!
Please fix these issues! these camera are a great addition but they have a bunch of minor annoyances, |
Trajan Unknown
Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops
76
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 22:47:54 -
[366] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:a new shortcut menu tab of consolidated camera controls would be greeeat thaaaanks
Yeah, the old shortcuts are there but they don-¦t work. Problem seems to be, the new shortcuts are no real shortcuts. You have to hold the "track" shortcut and click or you have to hit it twice. Plus it "track" doesn-¦t work on the map. And if you track sth and open the d-scan map the cam is not aligned to the object you are tracking.
|
Calavoow2
Catastrophic Overview Failure
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 22:50:00 -
[367] - Quote
Let me just reiterate my post in the february feedback thread in the proper topic (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6332437#post6332437)
Calavoow2 wrote: When tracking an ship in space with the new camera, the camera stops tracking the ship as soon as the user presses warp to somewhere. This means you can see when someone presses warp to when you are tracking a ship. But most importantly, you cannot track where people are warping any more with the tracking camera. You used to be able to track a ship until it disappeared off grid, so that you could get a good sense of direction where they warped (the middle of the screen would point at it).
|
Officer Pressly
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
42
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 22:58:37 -
[368] - Quote
This is important:
1 - Toggle tracking camera on and off. This functionality, is THE functunality affecting my gameplay every time i play the game. Giving me 2-3 extra klicks everytime I am searching for something, is not working for me.
2 - When tracking Object, camera offsets from ship. Litterally Bounces. I can not see how this is good in any scenario. I'm very dependent due to my gameplay, to keep a Visual track of my ships state, and at the same time be able to fast track what is happening in Space Close and further away, having a camera bob back and forth, is VERY BAD. |
Teinyhr
Ourumur
549
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 23:51:57 -
[369] - Quote
I have no need for the camera tracking feature personally, never have and probably never will. Why is it taking such an inordinate amount of space on my GUI I will never understand. Okay, fine, rewrite the code. But can I just get the current type of camera i.e. one that does not simulate tracking and foul up aspect ratio whenever it feels like it. And please make it so it can remember settings, because readjusting the camera after every jump will get annoying fast. How something like that got past testing is another thing I can't understand. |
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF Bad Intention
4
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 23:56:12 -
[370] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:I have no need for the camera tracking feature personally, never have and probably never will. Why is it taking such an inordinate amount of space on my GUI I will never understand. Okay, fine, rewrite the code. But can I just get the current type of camera i.e. one that does not simulate tracking and foul up aspect ratio whenever it feels like it. And please make it so it can remember settings, because readjusting the camera after every jump will get annoying fast. How something like that got past testing is another thing I can't understand. It didn't get past testing. This is testing. |
|
Octavius Gaius
nul-li-fy I N F A M O U S
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 01:13:44 -
[371] - Quote
Why does the new camera have less "FOV Zoom in" (ALT+Mouse-wheel) then the old camera (ctrl+L+R mouse)? I hope its not because people complained about "Low res. sky-box" so ccp just reduced maximum zoom in, instead of fixing sky box.
I am one of those players that always used tactical overlay. I find it ridiculous that with new camera I CAN NOT change my field of view in the tactical camera I have to switch to orbital camera first then alt+mouse-wheel, WHY?
With old camera I could center tracking position for d-scanning or create custom tracking position all from my HUD. How do I do this with new?
Also most Importantly why cant I toggle tracking camera ON or off this is the worst.
Lots of glitches, shacking camera, camera gets left behind when I warp, If I am in map mode and I jump my map moves on me. And much more!
Besides being more cinematic then the old camera the new camera Is a Huge step backwards in terms of functionality. Very much like the new map, if i set new map to jumps or kills per hr. EVERYTHING is the same color between 1-100 kills or jumps (not enough color variation) but the new map is still optional in a month the new camera will be mandatory Please fix the problems before doing this!
|
Ashterothi
Aideron Robotics
360
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 01:51:00 -
[372] - Quote
OK last we heard, they wanted us to check out the V scan option. So I have.
Before people keep talking about tracking camera try out the v click option, and then imagine if that was toggleable to just happen whenever you clicked on something. Would that be better? Worse? Why?
Second, I did have a bug, I tried to bind it to MOUSE3 to make it so I just click both buttons for a scan, well when I do that then the game acts as if the modifier key is always pressed so I get a yellow bounding box, and it tries to dscan whatever I click. Setting it back to V corrects the issue.
Listen to Hydrostatic Podcast for all your Empyrean needs!
|
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF Bad Intention
5
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 02:58:01 -
[373] - Quote
Well after some more testing I realized I was a bit wrong about why the inertia effect feels so bad. I also updated my older post. Basically I thought the inertia effect in itself was the problem, but after someone mentioned that it's already in the old camera I did another test. The old camera has some inertial drift after moving it, but it's fine because the drift is both slow and only at the end of the camera movement. The old camera starts moving at full speed instantly instead of accelerating at the beginning of the motion. On the other hand, the new camera takes some time to get up to speed, causing it to feel very sluggish and laggy. That slow acceleration at the start of the movement is most of the problem, but the drift at the end also needs a little work. The new camera seems to slow almost linearly from full speed to a stop, causing it to feel very uncontrolled and bouncy. The old camera seems like it slows down very quickly and most of the drift is at a low speed so it feels like the camera is just settling into place rather than drifting past where we want it.
Inertia on zooming is still very bad because scrolling with a mouse wheel is a much more granular operation with steps. Smoothing those steps creates a very uncomfortable disconnect between input and effect where the input is quick and precise but the effect is slow and imprecise.
Also, the more I use the camera the more I notice how slow it is to move the camera vertically. The difference between vertical sensitivity and horizontal sensitivity is very strange and feels wrong.
Now, about the V thing people keep mentioning, I can't get that to work but slowly adding lines to the dscan results window is a terrible idea. It needs to be at least 4x faster if it absolutely must be done that way, but getting the whole list instantly is still far better.
And just so nobody reading this thread gets the impression there's anyone who doesn't hate the tracking changes, let me make it clear that I too dislike having to press C on each new item. I also don't like having my ship moved to the side where there are always windows covering it.
TL;DR: Inertia on the start of camera movements is bad and makes it feel sluggish and laggy. Inertia on zooming is also bad because it's a precise operation and it doesn't feel precise with inertia. Vertical camera sensitivity should be the same as horizontal. Adding dscan results one line at a time needs to either be much, much faster or not happen. Please fix the tracking camera; it's not nice to use the way it is now.
The new camera has come a long way, but a few of those basic issues remain, making it hard to use. The proposed dscan changes really don't make up for the tracking camera being hard to use, even just for dscanning. That's not even considering its uses in combat or for getting a sense of your position in space. |
RuleoftheBone
Stellar Conundrum
25
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 03:54:53 -
[374] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:
GÇóI am not able to "look around" when holding right mouse button like I was used to. This is intended, that feature was not included in the new camera. If you use the tactical view you can look anywhere on the grid!
GÇóTracking camera can no longer be toggled, what gives!? We are looking into this and considering solutions.
GÇóI canGÇÖt track ships once they enter the "in warp" state. This is still being discussed. Ultimately it is a game design decision.
CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
Good morning,
I confess to being slightly annoyed at the level of hubris and "take it or leave it" expressed here. It makes me question how exactly this is being play tested.
Some realistic examples from my play this weekend:
-Jump in new WH and proceed to warp to planet "XXX". While d-scanning enroute I see a Tengu. WHILE IN WARPI pivot camera and narrow dscan to 5 degrees pinning said Tengu to an anom. This all within 10-15 seconds of hopping into systems. One CANNOTaccomplish this with the new camera. Period. And this is considered a valid game design decision?
-The camera drift is ridiculous for anyone seriously trying to d-scan. It makes pinpointing things in space an exercise in frustration.
-Back to the Tengu in above scenario. I warp in to the site cloaked and find myself suddenly having to dance tactical overlay and camera to maneuver towards the target while avoiding the frigging MTU tractor beam sucking wrecks, the Tengu motoring around, Sleepers randomly running about, and random crap in the site. Again....with the new camera this becomes quite pretty....but NOT functional for normal everyday use.
Is this some sort of nerf to WH space? Or to capsuleers that actually know how to dscan? Dumbing down the game for some reason?
-Another scenario....cloaked guy hops through a gate.....dump bubble....wait...wait....all while rapidly pivoting camera that stays nice and steady in conjunction with tactical display. Target appears....pivot cam while noting on tactical....manually fly at him and lights out. This is...again...next to impossible to perform with the new camera in its current state.
Look...I appreciate the work you and the rest of the CCP crew are doing to improve the game. But in this particular instance you are doing your supporters a disservice and again.....a little dude like me is simply asking you to reconsider shoveling his down our throats without reasonable accommodation to correct the serious issues.
As always I am more than happy to prove my points to you directly in space. After 10 years in EvE operating mainly as a sneaky **** pr0 scout perhaps you might take something onboard to consider.
And for the above listed examples please see JJ Starr's killboard. Thats my other account. I never exaggerate or BS my experiences in this fine game.
Cheers
B
**edit** I am also slightly annoyed at the level of response here and having to go see more at reddit which is not my favorite place to read about EvE. These are YOUR forums......perhaps use them a bit more? And for the rude pilots in this thread....more flies with honey and all that. Insulting the devs does nothing useful. |
DaReaper
Net 7
2759
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 05:27:48 -
[375] - Quote
Alea wrote:Jeven HouseBenyo wrote:It dawned on me early Saturday evening while I was binge watching some T.V. series.
This is very similar to the outcry that came from the Overview Icon change. The one where there was a strong (on forums at least) request to at least keep the 'Classic/Legacy' Icons for those that preferred them for several reasons. How did that turn out? And as for the backhanded offer of a customizable set of icons in return for the outright removal of the old ones, umm, where are they? I can't seem to find the right clicky, tab, or drop menu to fiddle with them.
>Jeven For me those tiny icons killed my solo pvp career, I still can't see those tiny bastards very well at all, specially if there are allot of pilots on grid, had new glasses made just to help me play Eve but still my eyesight is too bad, CCP pretty much let us players with bad eyesight down. I still pvp with my alliance but that's the extent of it, I'm a CAP pilot my choice so I can take more time to "find" who I'm supposed to be lobbing projectiles at, if I was in anything smaller I would not be able to pvp at all I don't think.
why is it so hard to not sort by pilots name and ignore the icons? if you asre in fleet and the fc says 'dareaper is primary' then who cares what the icon for my ship is? you cna also sort by type and again, ignore the icon. No real reason not to as its what you would of done anyway if the icon was still a [ ]. There i fixed your icon issues, you are welcome
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
Yes i am optimistic about eve.. i'm giving it till dec 31st 2016 before i doom n gloom
|
DaReaper
Net 7
2759
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 05:37:56 -
[376] - Quote
Alea wrote:DaReaper wrote:As an aside:
to everyone pissing and moaning that ccp should play there game and then they would know what you all are talking about. Re: tracking camera, i have played eve for 12 years, scanned a lot of that and i have no ******* idea what you all are whining about with tracking. The new camera works just how i always used said camera. This is why they ask for videos and pictures, just because you and the guys you fly with use a tool a certain way, doesn't mean others do as well. This is why its best to show them what you are doing and how you are using things so they can understand what the **** you are talking about.
Stop being idiots and bitching at the devs and give them evidence of what is broken so they can try and fix it. Sheesh If some of the devs would actually play the game that they write code for none of this sh1tstorm would be happening.
a lot of devs do play. That doesn't mean they play the same way you do. again for example, i am a 12 year vet, ex alliance leaders tho owned a few constellations, i was one of the first corps to colonize WH's. I currently scan every single day.
1) i have no issues with the camera, they fixed my initial problems in the first pass.
2) i never once used 'c' for anything on dscan.
3) i have no idea what the hell you all are bitching about, and just found out that 'v' in the test server does something cool that i did not know exist.
Devs program and maybe they don;t play the same way you do, in the same situation, with the same setup as you. This is why feedback needs to be constructive, because they too are human, and don;t do the same things as everyone else. And we find ways to play in way that a dev or programmer who doesn't play the same way might not know.
For example, one of Hilmars fav stories is can mining. when eve started he joined a corp to see how players were doing things. And discovered we were using can in an unintended way. He freaked out, until he realized we were using it in a good way. Dev and programs can;t always predict what a person is going to do. And looking at a design document with a set of numbers like '10% of players use this feature" they go 'well we can remove it then.' not realizing the impact on said design.
Hence images, video, descriptions is better. And they may change something because of factors you have no idea about, which won;t become apparent till later. OR they change things for the hell of it and need to be told why what they did is bad.
really not that hard.
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
Yes i am optimistic about eve.. i'm giving it till dec 31st 2016 before i doom n gloom
|
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF Bad Intention
6
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 06:01:00 -
[377] - Quote
Exactly. Ranting and raving and threatening to quit over changes does help a little in that it helps to make the scope of the problems apparent. However, to actually fix the problems devs need to know specifically what's wrong and figure out how to fix it. That however leads to our current situation where everyone and their mom wants the tracking camera to be a mode toggle instead of a command but the devs don't change it. At this point it should be obvious what the problem is and how to fix it, but they're not fixing it. That's pretty much the only case where ranting and raving and threatening to quit the game can accomplish anything.
For the rest of the issues as well as this one we need to be constructive and actually narrow down the cause of the problem as closely as possible, and ideally offer solutions. |
Jeven HouseBenyo
Fifty Shades of Funkyness LLC
358
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 06:13:54 -
[378] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:Alea wrote:Jeven HouseBenyo wrote:It dawned on me early Saturday evening while I was binge watching some T.V. series.
This is very similar to the outcry that came from the Overview Icon change. The one where there was a strong (on forums at least) request to at least keep the 'Classic/Legacy' Icons for those that preferred them for several reasons. How did that turn out? And as for the backhanded offer of a customizable set of icons in return for the outright removal of the old ones, umm, where are they? I can't seem to find the right clicky, tab, or drop menu to fiddle with them.
>Jeven For me those tiny icons killed my solo pvp career, I still can't see those tiny bastards very well at all, specially if there are allot of pilots on grid, had new glasses made just to help me play Eve but still my eyesight is too bad, CCP pretty much let us players with bad eyesight down. I still pvp with my alliance but that's the extent of it, I'm a CAP pilot my choice so I can take more time to "find" who I'm supposed to be lobbing projectiles at, if I was in anything smaller I would not be able to pvp at all I don't think. why is it so hard to not sort by pilots name and ignore the icons? if you asre in fleet and the fc says 'dareaper is primary' then who cares what the icon for my ship is? you cna also sort by type and again, ignore the icon. No real reason not to as its what you would of done anyway if the icon was still a [ ]. There i fixed your icon issues, you are welcome
Third try at writing a response that won't give the illusion of a personal rebuttal to a personal attack.
Failed.
To each their own view of the overview icons, camera changes, and how every FC runs a fleet op. I sincerely apologize for not being a professional multi-year Eve bad grrl PvP'er.
>Jeven
Minny boat flyer, unofficial squeaky wheel.
'Game Ethics and Morality Monitor' I remember promises.
Snark at 11-24/7/365.25. Overshare? Yup.
Yes it's my fault. And if you don't staap it I'll do it again. ;-P
No you can't has my stuffs OR my SPs.
|
Danny Lonnegan
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 06:51:42 -
[379] - Quote
Gave the new camera a try in PVP on Friday. Tweaked the settings until I was reasonably comfortable with them, and had an okay time--until I clicked on the overview to look at something or D-scan something, and got frustrated because I'd forgotten to c-click again. Today I switched back to the old camera, and frankly it was a relief to have tracking behaving normally again.
Suggestions so far, then:
1) Default settings should be adjusted so the orbit camera behaves more like the old camera out of the box. EVE really doesn't need another thing to configure before you start playing. Video makers will probably want to tweak the settings to take fuller advantage of the new features, but video makers would probably have tweaked the camera anyway according to their own personal needs and tastes.
2) Really, honestly and truly, tracking should be toggled on once and left on. For fast d-scanning, for situational awareness in a fight, for just catching a glimpse of something cool, c-clicking is inadequate.
EDIT:
3) I'm not sure if the spooky music in tactical mode is a bug or intended feature, but that really should be bound to the music volume slider for people who want to turn it off. It's my understanding now that it's bound to the UI volume slider, which means, if you don't like the spooky music, choosing between gritting your teeth and bearing it, switching to another camera mode, or turning off the client's (very helpful!) array of audio signals. |
Trajan Unknown
Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops
80
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 07:50:56 -
[380] - Quote
Can someone enlighten me about the "V" shortcut? I can-¦t find anything related in the shortcut options and my shortkeys are heavily modified. |
|
Varathius
The Tuskers The Tuskers Co.
212
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 09:36:06 -
[381] - Quote
Do not remove the option to opt for the old camera angle version please.
Changes are welcome if they are based upon positive feedback of the end-users. For instance, in aviation, HUDs (Heads up displays) were made because of pilot feedback, so the aviation industry have implemented the system on military and civil aircraft based upon pilot feedback.
So, in Eve, CCP would be the aviation industry and the players would be the pilots when comparing this to the above example.
If engineers would have made HUDs not giving a damn about pilot feedback, then guess what, pilots will just flip the HUD up and not even use it to begin with, and rely on traditional display unit instrumentation layouts. However, as engineers forcing pilots to use HUDs without having had pilot feedback, oh boy... welcome increased inefficiency, risks, etc... again, sometimes it is good to make a real life scenario for comparison.
Failure to listen to end-user feedback and blindly removing the option to enable the older version of camera angles is a SERIOUS MISTAKE.
|
UberMarmalade
Prime Militia
2
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 09:42:25 -
[382] - Quote
I'd just like to weigh in on the whole tracking camera debate with what I've posted on reddit.
The most common use case for dscan is when jumping into a system (or already being there) and trying to locate which celestial another player is at. Without the tracking camera you no longer have the assistance of clicking on overview items to quickly be able to scan them.
The tracking camera + clicking on overview gave a quick way of locating a person by setting your dscan to a small cone, then for every celestial you want to check it's:
click overview
dscan The current version on tranquillity has replaced those two steps with:
- click overview
- press c
- wait for camera
- press dscan
or using the map:
- Locate the celestial you would like to scan on a 3d map (slower than looking at your overview)
- Open radial menu
- Press dscan[/left]
If you don't use the map version of dscan, you've got a strictly slower version of the same process (more steps + a wait)
If you use the map option, it's nice for some cases, but the negatives are:
- having to have a map open (I don't like this, I'm usually dscanning in a pvp situation so it either means using a small map window or covering up important things like modules and overview)
- Missing out on using the overview, I pick celestials based off of a list of nearby celestials in one of my overview tabs setup for the dscan task at hand, with the map option I have to find them in space
- Finding things in 3d space and clicking them is (for some common use cases) strictly worse than picking from a a list
The new options just feels super clunky compared to the previous way of doing this (to catch someone you have to be fast on dscan, so a slowdown here is a massive frustration) A quick fix might be to put that dscan menu option in some more places (but then you risk more menu bloat) |
Calima Arzi
Risk Breakers Bad Intention
9
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 10:38:25 -
[383] - Quote
TLDR: 1. Right click pan is _fundamental_. 2. Tracking camera, with a steady focus on what is clicked on the overview is _essential_. 3. Unsteady camera modes are clearly making players sick.
CCP Turtlepower wrote:GÇóI am not able to "look around" when holding right mouse button like I was used to. This is intended, that feature was not included in the new camera. If you use the tactical view you can look anywhere on the grid! You are intentionally removing one of the two most important features of the camera. All your players know to right click pan the camera. We all have that reflex. Removing this 'feature' will inconvenience, confuse and annoy every single player in the game. Please, I don't want to use the 'tactical view'. I want to right click pan the camera. This is one of the most fundamental things in the game. Please, please reconsider.
Secondly, please take seriously the need to restore the tracking camera, so that we can five degree dscan things by clicking on them in the overview. I'm sure that many thousands of your players do this every day. I don't want to hold 'C' down every time. I don't have that reflex and shouldn't have to learn new, clunkier ones.
Finally, while the old camera code may be difficult to maintain, as a player it is not broken. I don't want cinematics: I want things to work, and not get in the way. I don't want my camera view to sway, move around or have 'inertia'. I want it exactly as it is because as a player it is not broken and does not need fixing. By all means add 'cinematic' new features but please: I don't want them shoved down my throat.
Many thanks,
Calima
|
warbds
Stoli Holdings
12
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 10:45:24 -
[384] - Quote
Well what do i need to say
1) warping looks awfull with the new camera 2) scanning well centering is rather difficult 3) nausea
So I went back to the old camera |
Trajan Unknown
Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops
82
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 10:57:46 -
[385] - Quote
Quote:The GÇ£Look atGÇ¥ command is now also available for items far away, but instead of the camera travelling light years, we just rotate it in place so the object is centered at the screen, which is very handy for, say, directional scanning.
I tried to wrap my head around this and it seems to work like the old tracking. So that-¦s a plus only drawback for me with this new system is, there is no switch to enable it. You always have to use a hotkey to "look at". Another thing I realised is, that "look at" doesn-¦t work on the map at all using the hotkey. So I have to click the object, click on "look at" on the selected item window and than I am able to scan.
Quote:Tracking now works in the same way as all other in-space commands work instead of having a special mode toggled on/off previously; you either click the new GÇ£TrackGÇ¥ button in the GÇ£Selected ItemGÇ¥ window, radial menu or right click menu. The shortcut key for Tracking is still the same though; C. The tracking camera implementation has also changed so that we now always keep the tracked object center-screen, while pushing the foreground object to the side as we zoom in.
Please don-¦t implement this. I am not sure who thought it would be a good idea but it is totally not. You want to track stuff from the PoV of your ship not from some undefined spot in space. Again, I am not sure who-¦s idea this was but I really like to get an explanation why this would be useful for anything? I need to track another ship in relation to my own ship. So I tried this "chase mode" that even if it would work like the old tracking is way too much stuff to do for a simple command.
Look at --> track --> camera is getting locked on the ship I am looking at and follows. And now what? I am not seeing my own ship, I can-¦t interrupt the other ships pathing, I am losing complete sense of where my own ship is. Maybe it is useful with the new fighter squadrons or so but for our everyday usage it-¦s completely useless. The description in the devblog says I can trigger it by using orbit mode. Well, I am getting triggered for sure but nothing else. I also tried this thing with looking at my own ship, tracking myself and see if it is Quote:This mode works amazingly well with manual flight! and it is totally not the case. When I am manually piloting I am moving the camera all the time, I don-¦t need to track my own ship instead I like to track the hostile ship while adjusting my point of view in relation to the enemy ship and the course. But again, maybe I simply missed some "features" so enlighten me and while you are on it please provide meaningful explanations of your features because I am starting to think you guys are over thinking a lot here and implement features that work against the player. Just as a hint, you reach perfection in coding when you can-¦t remove anything anymore while keeping the whole thing functional. Easier said than done especially with legacy code but if you rewrite something from scratch keep it simple man. I spend a lot of time now trying to figure out what you guys are trying to achieve with these features and most of it while sounding great is so much hassle to get around that it is no fun. Again, keep thing simple and functional. Your chase mode thingy is a really good example of good intention but bad implementation. I have to "look at" and "track" to have the old tracking mode. Aside from the fact that it doesn-¦t seem to work it is too much. Why can-¦t I simply "track" sth as I am used to? In what world does it make sense to unlock the camera from my ship when I am tracking an object? I am not playing Homeworld here, where this point of view made a lot of sense because I wasn-¦t flying the ship by myself I played and RTS. We don-¦t play a RTS game here with the exception of fighter squadrons where it may or may not make sense to have such tracking features.
|
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF Bad Intention
7
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 11:10:40 -
[386] - Quote
Calima Arzi wrote:1. Right click pan is _fundamental_. ... You are intentionally removing one of the two most important features of the camera. All your players know to right click pan the camera. We all have that reflex. Removing this 'feature' will inconvenience, confuse and annoy every single player in the game. I think you're slightly overestimating the number of people that use it. I've never used it and I asked about 80 players in my alliance and only 4 had ever seriously tried to use it, with only 1 finding it useful. That said, it does seem like a fairly basic feature that should be kept for the people who do use it unless there's a better use for the right mouse button.
Trajan Unknown wrote: In what world does it make sense to unlock the camera from my ship when I am tracking an object? I am not playing Homeworld here, where this point of view made a lot of sense because I wasn-¦t flying the ship by myself I played and RTS. We don-¦t play a RTS game here with the exception of fighter squadrons where it may or may not make sense to have such tracking features. I'm not sure what you're saying, but if you mean looking at something other than your ship then tracking something, why do you care? That's a completely optional feature that seems like it could be useful for some people who want to get a better perspective. |
Trajan Unknown
Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops
82
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 11:22:48 -
[387] - Quote
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:Calima Arzi wrote:1. Right click pan is _fundamental_. ... You are intentionally removing one of the two most important features of the camera. All your players know to right click pan the camera. We all have that reflex. Removing this 'feature' will inconvenience, confuse and annoy every single player in the game. I think you're slightly overestimating the number of people that use it. I've never used it and I asked about 80 players in my alliance and only 4 had ever seriously tried to use it, with only 1 finding it useful. That said, it does seem like a fairly basic feature that should be kept for the people who do use it unless there's a better use for the right mouse button. Trajan Unknown wrote: In what world does it make sense to unlock the camera from my ship when I am tracking an object? I am not playing Homeworld here, where this point of view made a lot of sense because I wasn-¦t flying the ship by myself I played and RTS. We don-¦t play a RTS game here with the exception of fighter squadrons where it may or may not make sense to have such tracking features. I'm not sure what you're saying, but if you mean looking at something other than your ship then tracking an object, why do you care? That's a completely optional feature that seems like it could be useful for some people who want to get a better perspective. If you're talking about how the camera moves to the side of your ship when tracking something, yeah that's pretty bad.
Maybe I expressed myself a little too unclear, sorry about that. :)
With the old camera you could track objects correct? So let-¦s say you are flying around with me and I am tracking you then the camera will follow your ship in space. You can "draw" a line from my ship to your ship so my ship is the center and you are "flying" around me. With the new camera I am tracking your ship from an undefined (for me undefined) point in space instead of using my ship as the centerpoint. So instead of being able to draw a line from my ship to your ship and getting a good understanding of distance, speed and your course in space I am getting lost. I made a quick .jepeg to show what I mean. Again, maybe there is a way to use tracking like we are used to with the old camera but if there is it seems to be a little too hidden for my taste. Tracking
|
Commander Freemason
CONES MINING INC
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 11:56:23 -
[388] - Quote
SOME FUCKHEAD PROGRAMMER WANTED IT TO LOOK LIKE BATTLESTAR GALACTICA AND ALL THE FUCKHEADS IN DEVELOPMENT HAD NOTHING NEW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND KLAPED THERE SMALL CORPATE FAT HANDS. (THEY WERE PISSING AND SWEATING THEIR PANTS FOR NOT COMMING UP WITH ANYTHING ! NEW ! AT ALL. SKINS AND AUR BUYS. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK THIS ALL SUCKS BALLS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Calrik Aakiwa
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 12:27:23 -
[389] - Quote
Commander Freemason wrote:SOME FUCKHEAD PROGRAMMER WANTED IT TO LOOK LIKE BATTLESTAR GALACTICA AND ALL THE FUCKHEADS IN DEVELOPMENT HAD NOTHING NEW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND KLAPED THERE SMALL CORPATE FAT HANDS. (THEY WERE PISSING AND SWEATING THEIR PANTS FOR NOT COMMING UP WITH ANYTHING ! NEW ! AT ALL. SKINS AND AUR BUYS. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK THIS ALL SUCKS BALLS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You mad bro? Remember #broadcast4reps
There are some bugs that need to be ironed out but I welcome the change. It is growing on me. Having said that Im lucky I am not one who gets motion sickness and I did find it hard to figure out where my cloaked ship was and what direction it was pointing in a big 400man tidi fight the other day. Don't see the need for so much agro though with this much hate towards the developers Im sure this game won't miss you. |
Calima Arzi
Risk Breakers Bad Intention
10
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 13:13:20 -
[390] - Quote
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:Calima Arzi wrote:1. Right click pan is _fundamental_. I think you're slightly overestimating the number of people that use it. I've never used it and I asked about 80 players in my alliance and only 4 had ever seriously tried to use it, with only 1 finding it useful. That said, it does seem like a fairly basic feature that should be kept for the people who do use it unless there's a better use for the right mouse button. Hi Miss! I wasn't around at the time you asked, or that would be five that had seriously tried to use it, and two that found it useful. Did you really get seventy five responses of 'do not right click pan'?
Maybe I'm missing something. When I undock after logging in, the camera starts zoomed right into my ship. Much too far: all I can see are ship innards. Behind that, a lot of space station. I need to right click in space to find an insta-warp bookmark but at the beginning there is no space: only ship innards and station. So I zoom out, pan left of right, right click space > warp off before my undock timer expires. Am I alone in that?
Or: maybe I kill something and want to see my new killmark. So I zoom in and then right click > pan around my ship trying to find the new tiny killmark. You don't do that?
Or: I'm in a fight and want to get between my target and a gate: I pan the camera to help me understand where things are in space. Or a data site, moving between cans. Or moving around outside a station to make an insta-dock. Or anything that requires moving around in space: I need to pan the camera to help me see where I am relative to other things. Seriously, other people don't do these things too? What do they do instead? What have I been missing, these last two years?
-- C |
|
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF Bad Intention
7
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 13:26:27 -
[391] - Quote
Calima Arzi wrote:Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:Calima Arzi wrote:1. Right click pan is _fundamental_. I think you're slightly overestimating the number of people that use it. I've never used it and I asked about 80 players in my alliance and only 4 had ever seriously tried to use it, with only 1 finding it useful. That said, it does seem like a fairly basic feature that should be kept for the people who do use it unless there's a better use for the right mouse button. Hi Miss! I wasn't around at the time you asked, or that would be five that had seriously tried to use it, and two that found it useful. Did you really get seventy five responses of 'do not right click pan'? Maybe I'm missing something. When I undock after logging in, the camera starts zoomed right into my ship. Much too far: all I can see are ship innards. Behind that, a lot of space station. I need to right click in space to find an insta-warp bookmark but at the beginning there is no space: only ship innards and station. So I zoom out, pan left of right, right click space > warp off before my undock timer expires. Am I alone in that? Or: maybe I kill something and want to see my new killmark. So I zoom in and then right click > pan around my ship trying to find the new tiny killmark. You don't do that? Or: I'm in a fight and want to get between my target and a gate: I pan the camera to help me understand where things are in space. Or a data site, moving between cans. Or moving around outside a station to make an insta-dock. Or anything that requires moving around in space: I need to pan the camera to help me see where I am relative to other things. Seriously, other people don't do these things too? What do they do instead? What have I been missing, these last two years? -- C I do all of that, but I do it with normal camera movement, except possibly looking for killmarks. I just prefer for the camera to stay in the position I moved it to even after releasing the button. That also keeps my ship at the center of the screen, allowing a better sense of where I am relative to other stuff.
And no I didn't get 75 responses of no. I did get at least 50 though. Still a very small sample in the grand scheme of things, but reasonable evidence that it's not as widely used as you seem to think.
To each their own though. I do believe CCP should remake that feature unless they come up with something significantly better for the right mouse button, but nobody else I know would be devastated if that feature were gone. |
Sgt Ocker
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
826
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 13:33:26 -
[392] - Quote
Calrik Aakiwa wrote:
You mad bro? Remember #broadcast4reps
There are some bugs that need to be ironed out but I welcome the change. It is growing on me. Having said that Im lucky I am not one who gets motion sickness and I did find it hard to figure out where my cloaked ship was and what direction it was pointing in a big 400man tidi fight the other day. Don't see the need for so much agro though with this much hate towards the developers Im sure this game won't miss you.
400 caused TIDI - So all the new bullshit "pretty half finished projects" on TQ are causing TIDI with lower numbers now?
FYI, It's not the one or two who voice their concerns / feelings that won't be missed, it is the hundreds, possibly thousands who just don't resub that make the difference. -- - -- - -- - -- We still have Icons that are in ways subpar to what they replaced (if you don't have next to perfect eyesight, cruisers and battlecruisers, frigates and destroyers look so similar, "Type" column in the overview is often the only thing left)
A new map, that is far from user friendly (and still officially an Opt Out on TQ, that should have been removed until Devs had time to get it up to scratch)
Probe scanner that is just about there and a Dscan that just keeps getting screwed with.
Constant black screens of up to 30 seconds when undocking (since shared cache was introduced), that just seems to be getting ignored.
And what is CCP's answer to these ongoing issues - Release another half finished feature onto TQ. Pretty smart really, each new half finished feature moves player focus from the last one, that still isn't right.
All the pretty crap in the new camera might well be a great thing for budding video makers (and a bit of free advertising for CCP Games) but it certainly leaves a lot to be desired for overall general game play.
I don't care what drift is supposed to do, I don't want my ship drifting out of sight behind open windows, constantly having to scroll around to find my ship doesn't do a lot for situational awareness.
I don't care about detaching from my ship to have a panoramic view of my location, I can see all I need to from the old tactical overview and really don't need anymore mandatory key presses to do what i can now with simple mouse clicks.
Leave the old tried and tested camera exactly where it is. Use the "new and improved" camera as an optional thing for all the budding video makers.
Don't fix what ain't broke - But by all means make something new for a specific purpose as optional for that purpose.
-- - -- - -- - -- CCP taking lessons from VW - We can't live up to the promises we make so will use workarounds and software cheats to delivery - A subpar product. Difference VW is having the proverbial Ass sued off it - CCP can safely hide behind, its is a game we own it and the EULA that protects us from having to deliver a better product.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
|
Calima Arzi
Risk Breakers Bad Intention
10
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 13:37:49 -
[393] - Quote
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote: I do all of that, but I do it with normal camera movement, except possibly looking for killmarks. I just prefer for the camera to stay in the position I moved it to even after releasing the button. That also keeps my ship at the center of the screen, allowing a better sense of where I am relative to other stuff.
Ah, I too keep my ship in the middle. I'm using right click to rotate the angle my camera is facing. So I've probably misunderstood - if 'pan' only means 'drag the view to one side, including your ship' then no, I don't use that either! If that's all we're losing then I've over-reacted, and so I'm sorry about that.
My other two points are still valid - I don't want to have to press 'c' every time I click on something in my overview that I want to d-scan towards, and I'm no more keen on feeling nauseous that the next player.
-- C
|
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF Bad Intention
7
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 13:39:37 -
[394] - Quote
I think a lot of people are missing one thing: The new camera is required for many of the new things in the Citadel expansion, so continuing to use the old one won't realistically be possible for much longer. They really should focus on making the new one work more like the old one though. |
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF Bad Intention
7
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 13:42:00 -
[395] - Quote
Calima Arzi wrote:Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote: I do all of that, but I do it with normal camera movement, except possibly looking for killmarks. I just prefer for the camera to stay in the position I moved it to even after releasing the button. That also keeps my ship at the center of the screen, allowing a better sense of where I am relative to other stuff.
Ah, I too keep my ship in the middle. I'm using right click to rotate the angle my camera is facing. So I've probably misunderstood - if 'pan' only means 'drag the view to one side, including your ship' then no, I don't use that either! If that's all we're losing then I've over-reacted, and so I'm sorry about that. My other two points are still valid - I don't want to have to press 'c' every time I click on something in my overview that I want to d-scan towards, and I'm no more keen on feeling nauseous that the next player. -- C Basically what right click does is let you pivot the camera (around the camera position rather than your ship) to look in some direction, then snap it back to looking at your ship when you release the button. |
Kazi Kugisa
EVE University Ivy League
56
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 13:47:36 -
[396] - Quote
I do understand that the new camera is required for the way the new capitals will work. However, capitals aren't going to be doing the scouting that needs the tracking functionality. How about a secondary solution until a full tracking solution can be implemented in the new camera:
1) Reset the opt-out function on the camera with the new patch.
2) Leave the ability to opt out of the new camera in the next patch.
3) add some code that requires a person getting into a carrier and above to enable the new camera or force its enabling while disabling the option to turn it off while in the ship. Same goes for any other structure (assuming Citadel defense) that may need the new camera.
If this really is a time crunch issue to get the camera ready, this is an option that will buy the developers time to implement some very important features without delaying the new capitals. This is probably an easier coding solution than making the whole tracking fix by the time of the patch. The quick and dirty way around it tried on SISI this weekend is really not a good workaround. |
Sgt Ocker
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
828
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 13:49:54 -
[397] - Quote
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:I think a lot of people are missing one thing: The new camera is required for many of the new things in the Citadel expansion, so continuing to use the old one won't realistically be possible for much longer. They really should focus on making the new one work more like the old one though. Is this something else Devs have not bothered to share with their forum users (eg; revealed on R/eve only) or are you guessing, like most about what will or won't happen with Citadels?
If using the new over manufactured, overly complicated, nausea inducing camera, is necessary for Citadels, then Devs are delivering the majority of the player base a really bad turn.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
|
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF Bad Intention
7
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 13:55:47 -
[398] - Quote
Kazi Kugisa wrote:I do understand that the new camera is required for the way the new capitals will work. However, capitals aren't going to be doing the scouting that needs the tracking functionality. How about a secondary solution until a full tracking solution can be implemented in the new camera:
1) Reset the opt-out function on the camera with the new patch.
2) Leave the ability to opt out of the new camera in the next patch.
3) add some code that requires a person getting into a carrier and above to enable the new camera or force its enabling while disabling the option to turn it off while in the ship. Same goes for any other structure (assuming Citadel defense) that may need the new camera.
If this really is a time crunch issue to get the camera ready, this is an option that will buy the developers time to implement some very important features without delaying the new capitals. This is probably an easier coding solution than making the whole tracking fix by the time of the patch. The quick and dirty way around it tried on SISI this weekend is really not a good workaround. It really doesn't seem that hard to implement the old tracking system. There would probably be a couple complications, but it's mainly a matter of changing C to a mode toggle and then initiating tracking mode every time the selected object changes. I don't know how messy their code is, but I could probably get that working in a day or two at most. I think what's holding it back is that someone higher up the chain of command has decided the feature shouldn't work that way. |
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF Bad Intention
7
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 14:00:21 -
[399] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:I think a lot of people are missing one thing: The new camera is required for many of the new things in the Citadel expansion, so continuing to use the old one won't realistically be possible for much longer. They really should focus on making the new one work more like the old one though. Is this something else Devs have not bothered to share with their forum users (eg; revealed on R/eve only) or are you guessing, like most about what will or won't happen with Citadels? If using the new over manufactured, overly complicated, nausea inducing camera, is necessary for Citadels, then Devs are delivering the majority of the player base a really bad turn. It's speculation on my part (if they said something I didn't read it), but if you look at screenshots of new features in the dev blogs, it's pretty clear they're not using the old camera. In particular controlling new fighters would be nearly impossible without being able to detach the camera from your ship. Same for AoE doomsdays, and citadel control would probably not fit into the old system very easily either. |
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
6922
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 14:03:31 -
[400] - Quote
Removed some off topic posts.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
|
|
Kazi Kugisa
EVE University Ivy League
56
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 14:06:48 -
[401] - Quote
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote: It really doesn't seem that hard to implement the old tracking system. There would probably be a couple complications, but it's mainly a matter of changing C to a mode toggle and then initiating tracking mode every time the selected object changes. I don't know how messy their code is, but I could probably get that working in a day or two at most. I think what's holding it back is that someone higher up the chain of command has decided the feature shouldn't work that way.
I'm just trying to give them the benefit of the doubt that this is a time crunch issue. I can see ways coding to the overview might take a bit more time based on some of the goofy ways they have been trying to work around it. The V solution on SISI may have been the biggest kludge I have seen tried in EVE for a long long time. I think CCP would be better served to tell us exactly why this is an issue for them and get ahead of things. If it really is the time crunch I think it is, the solution I suggested could be their best way out of trouble. |
Sgt Ocker
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
828
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 14:14:18 -
[402] - Quote
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:I think a lot of people are missing one thing: The new camera is required for many of the new things in the Citadel expansion, so continuing to use the old one won't realistically be possible for much longer. They really should focus on making the new one work more like the old one though. Is this something else Devs have not bothered to share with their forum users (eg; revealed on R/eve only) or are you guessing, like most about what will or won't happen with Citadels? If using the new over manufactured, overly complicated, nausea inducing camera, is necessary for Citadels, then Devs are delivering the majority of the player base a really bad turn. It's speculation on my part (if they said something I didn't read it), but if you look at screenshots of new features in the dev blogs, it's pretty clear they're not using the old camera. In particular controlling new fighters would be nearly impossible without being able to detach the camera from your ship. Same for AoE doomsdays, and citadel control would probably not fit into the old system very easily either. Not sure there, I think having a fixed point for your ship will be very important for using the new fighters and the new AOE Titan mods. No point detaching your camera and selecting an area that is out of control range, is there? New fighters, will be able to be placed anywhere on grid, you should not have to detach from your ship to place them or they could end up in entirely the wrong place because you have no idea where you placed them in relation to your ship. Try it in SISI (doing it on TQ will get you killed) and see what sort of tactical view you have when your camera is detached. Nice for video makers, all but useless for tactical reasons.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
|
Sannye
Perkone Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 14:17:40 -
[403] - Quote
Calima Arzi wrote:TLDR: 1. Right click pan is _fundamental_. 2. Tracking camera, with a steady focus on what is clicked on the overview is _essential_. 3. Unsteady camera modes are clearly making players sick. CCP Turtlepower wrote:GÇóI am not able to "look around" when holding right mouse button like I was used to. This is intended, that feature was not included in the new camera. If you use the tactical view you can look anywhere on the grid! You are intentionally removing one of the two most important features of the camera. All your players know to right click pan the camera. We all have that reflex. Removing this 'feature' will inconvenience, confuse and annoy every single player in the game. Please, I don't want to use the 'tactical view'. I want to right click pan the camera. This is one of the most fundamental things in the game. Please, please reconsider. Secondly, please take seriously the need to restore the tracking camera, so that we can five degree dscan things by clicking on them in the overview. I'm sure that many thousands of your players do this every day. I don't want to hold 'C' down every time. I don't have that reflex and shouldn't have to learn new, clunkier ones. Finally, while the old camera code may be difficult to maintain, as a player it is not broken. I don't want cinematics: I want things to work, and not get in the way. I don't want my camera view to sway, move around or have 'inertia'. I want it exactly as it is because as a player it is not broken and does not need fixing. By all means add 'cinematic' new features but please: I don't want them shoved down my throat. Many thanks, Calima
I agree. This is fundemental for the game. In EVE function>eyecandy. Does the Dev's play EVE anymore? Sure doesnt seem that way... |
Ja'e Ambraelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 14:26:16 -
[404] - Quote
Just to pile up on the thread and repeat what has been said numerous times.
The custom tracking position & center tracking camera (& toggle feature):It is not only an issue of d-scanning. It is, of course, really useful for d-scanning and I'm sure a significant part of people d-scanning things on the regular are accustomed to it and using it the way it is.
And for good reasons; pressing C to toggle tracking and then clicking once on things in the overview / in space to start tracking and then choosing to d-scan is pretty straightforward, efficient, and hard to improve. Those are simple one-step one-click one-action processes. That's where you are going with your 'V' / 'refresh directional scan' aka 'd-scan things without looking at it and camera adjusts automatically', and I get it, because it has the potential to be faster in plenty of situations. That's great, and by all means, keep it there as an option. But that's a new shortcut to add into the game, for something that we could already do (maybe half a second slower) with the toggled tracking centered camera and the d-scan. In this use case, there is no practical reasons to remove the way the old toggled tracking used to work. Yes it is slightly faster with that new thing. Guess what ? You could increase the speed of the old tracking camera and it'll wield the same result without people throwing their **** around in anger everywhere, and keep the new one 'V' feature around because some people will like it better.
It's not just about d-scanning. The custom tracking position, although I'll admit to not use all the time, is very useful to grasp position of things relative to your ship and quickly check for several targets while toggled. The fact it is customizable is nice, because people will have their UI arranged differently, and they know better where the focus of the camera should be.
General unresponsiveness of the new camera:I do not feel nauseus using it, but I can understand why some people do. On a general note, all the fluff and fancy stuff is nice, please do give options to people of want to have a fancy camera the way to customize it to their likings. That's great. Your top priority should however be the UX, and give people a tool that does not feel slow in any way and mimics what they were used to. Want an example? Just look at what the old one did, and mimic it. I'll admit that the old one can be improved upon, but the new one isn't an improvement of the old one on several topics.
Right click pan / pivot:No reason to remove it at all. I rarely use it, some people do more often than others, and you're stripping them of a simple yet useful feature (no I don't think they want to switch camera mode every time, thanks).
There are other things, and more people have made more useful comments than I would on them, so I'll cut it there.
- I don't mean to be rude or agressive in any way, but I have a hard time figuring out the thought process of the people making the call on these changes. You have to re-write old code, I get it, and that's great, because it means an easier time to add new features and tweak them in the future, super cool.
However, you're working with an old software and people have grown accustomed to how things worked and got it working for the most part; I never heard people being actively vocal about how the old camera needed a rework because it wasn't working great, etc. Of course, there were bugs, it wasn't neither perfect nor the best solution, and there were quality of life improvement as well that made it the way it is today. Remember the no centered tracking camera days ?
Thus, the first thing on your list when reworking something that was in most cases working great should be to replicate it to how it was before. Once you're done with that, make people test it for bugs and to make sure it is working the way it should. And then, after all that: - you can add all the fancy effects you want , - you can add new camera modes, because why not, the first person camera is utterly useless for day to day use, but I'm sure some people will make cool videos with it, - you can ask for feedback / propose new cool changes and tweaks (like your 'V' things, I think it's pretty cool and a nice addition). And make sure to add some sliders and stuff so people can get close enough to the old look and feel without spending 2 hours fiddling in the options.
Well, it doesn't have to be exactly that way, but you get the idea. /rant off -
Overall that's some good stuff coming from you guys, plenty of new functionnalities and cool things all around, but disregarding some basic old camera things and habits 'just because' isn't particularly useful for anyone.
TL;DR: Don't reinvent the concept of the wheel when there's no need to. Don't fix things that aren't broken and that nobody was complaining about. Give people what they're used to if there's no reason not to, and iterate upon that / improve from there. Thanks. |
Mister Ripley
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
162
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 14:34:05 -
[405] - Quote
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:I think a lot of people are missing one thing: The new camera is required for many of the new things in the Citadel expansion, so continuing to use the old one won't realistically be possible for much longer. They really should focus on making the new one work more like the old one though. Is this something else Devs have not bothered to share with their forum users (eg; revealed on R/eve only) or are you guessing, like most about what will or won't happen with Citadels? If using the new over manufactured, overly complicated, nausea inducing camera, is necessary for Citadels, then Devs are delivering the majority of the player base a really bad turn. It's speculation on my part (if they said something I didn't read it), but if you look at screenshots of new features in the dev blogs, it's pretty clear they're not using the old camera. In particular controlling new fighters would be nearly impossible without being able to detach the camera from your ship. Same for AoE doomsdays, and citadel control would probably not fit into the old system very easily either. IIRC it was mentioned in Citadel presentation at EVE Vegas. But please don't quote me here |
Esnaelc Sin'led
The Unchained Club
65
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 15:02:38 -
[406] - Quote
I've tested again today some of the new camera features on Singularity.
I still maintain that 'regular' / 'day-to-day pvp' is un-playable with all of the options checked, specially in Frigates.
Though it can be with them all un-checked.
It's pretty much the same feeling compared to the old-camera, except for the Tracking one.
Now about the Tracking Camera / DScan :
The Off-Set thing about Tracked Object should be an option just like "Ship speed Offset". Or it could just depend on that option being checked, or not. Then you could just rename this option : "Ship Offset". (dunno if it's possible technically)
The feature Click+Camera moving+Instant result is really cool, except for the delayed displayed result. Should just be instant display all at once. If you judge it too quick, then delay the result, but keep it displayed instantly. If you really want to keep that 'fading' display, then make ALL of it fade in at the same time, not line by line.
I strongly suggest / ask you to reconcider the toggling on or off of the center tracking camera feature that exists in the "old-camera".
Merging Toggle On/Off (the actual "Center Tracking Camera") & the new "Click+Track+DScan Result" would be really awsome. |
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
319
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 16:00:20 -
[407] - Quote
Tried the new camera again just to make sure I wasn't being an eWeen. 20 minutes of very light ratting plus salvaging = 30-40 minutes of nausea recovery time. Also the tracking and involuntary zooming when disengaged is still incredibly frustrating.
Just the facts.
GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½
|
Esnaelc Sin'led
The Unchained Club
65
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 16:07:13 -
[408] - Quote
Lfod Shi wrote:Tried the new camera again just to make sure I wasn't being an eWeen. 20 minutes of very light ratting plus salvaging = 30-40 minutes of nausea recovery time. Also the tracking and involuntary zooming when disengaged is still incredibly frustrating.
Just the facts.
Did you try with none of the options checked ? I'm very interesting to know which options you kept checked / which you unchecked. |
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
320
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 16:21:37 -
[409] - Quote
This round I had all boxes checked. I'll have to run it again with everything unchecked for comparison.
GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½
|
Dunmer Orion
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 16:39:08 -
[410] - Quote
Well CCP, I kinda see where you're going with this. But as it stands the camera is broken...this is game breaking on par with Loot Spew IMO.
-DO |
|
Esnaelc Sin'led
The Unchained Club
65
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 16:43:23 -
[411] - Quote
Lfod Shi wrote:This round I had all boxes checked. I'll have to run it again with everything unchecked for comparison.
Yes please. Would be very kind if you could come back and post your impressions with all options unchecked. |
FireusI
F-I-N-K Industry F-I-N-K and Co.
13
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 16:49:24 -
[412] - Quote
New Camera ( Joke )
I turned them all off and still buggers and glichs to high heaven
1) when i warp one of my toons to a pos/station the whole things spins 360 stops then starts again 2) When in pos i zoomed right out and having to alt 2 to get back to normal view which never stays at. 3) Sine this has happened i no long see my own fleet of miner laser show as active i.e beam hitting asteroids 4) This has been said by many of my corp/alliance memebers. 5) I have turned the new camera options off and still bugger out no matter what
I like the new camera options to removed till fully working as a nightmare
I run the following
windows 10 CI7 6700k 32gig ram trident (4x8gb3200MHZ) 2tb + ssd gigabyte gtx 970 rog maximums VIII ranger |
Valthax Kelkore
Damen LLC
29
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 17:14:14 -
[413] - Quote
The problem is the manner with which this is being deployed. I'm fine with change and changing aspects of the game as it evolves over time (balance, new content, heck, I'm even fine with Skill Injectors though I won't waste a single isk on them myself) and I'm 100% behind updating old code.
I'm not fine with paying to test something that should have a) been fully tested on SiSi, b) been a fully finished product, and c) addressed all community concerns, prior to being deployed on TQ. There's a reason why incentives on TQ are offered for customers to play-test features on SiSi and work with the dev teams in order to produce a finished product. It's a fair guess that there will still be updates for the camera rolling out past March 9th.
Instead we're forced to deal with something that didn't need this level of update, this quickly, which still has bugs and either alters or implements features in ways that either no one wants or are soon to be missing, thus removing basic functionality of a system which every single pilot who undocks uses. Just so one new aspect of content can be introduced.
tl;dr I'm perplexed as to why a legacy camera option cannot remain after March 9th for those who don't want to pay to keep testing something that didn't need to be altered this drastically to begin with; nor am I willing to pay to test something that should already have been a fully working product prior to release on TQ. |
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
321
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 18:49:40 -
[414] - Quote
Esnaelc Sin'led wrote:Lfod Shi wrote:This round I had all boxes checked. I'll have to run it again with everything unchecked for comparison. Yes please. Would be very kind if you could come back and post your impressions with all options unchecked. (They are in the first left column of "Display & Graphics" tab)
Ok... 20 minutes light ratting and salvage with all boxes unchecked. Stomach still hurts 20 minutes after logging off. Also, involuntary zoom in when tracking engaged (sometimes), involuntary zoom out when disengaged (sometimes).
And the inability to position the camera is a problem for me. Like many others I have various windows open and ship position on the screen is pretty important.
Won't be testing the new camera anymore. My tummy can't take it.
GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½
|
Esnaelc Sin'led
The Unchained Club
65
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 19:04:21 -
[415] - Quote
Ok well, that's really wierd.
Cause of i have none of the nausea or stomach emotions you are dealing with. With or without checked options.
With all options unchecked i can't see much differences between new and old camera.
That's another thing when dealing with the Tracking Camera though. I've updated my feedback about it.
But that might just be something they are working on, we still got 1 month before they release it completly. |
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
321
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 19:40:36 -
[416] - Quote
Some people are more sensitive to motion sickness than others. I used to be able to ride roller coasters all day long. As I got older, well... let's just say I can't do that anymore.
GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½
|
Jeven HouseBenyo
Fifty Shades of Funkyness LLC
359
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 21:16:40 -
[417] - Quote
Motion sickness triggers can be different from one person to another. I can read in a car, but only if my head is below the window line so landscape zipping by isn't visible. Boats and ships are no problem, but the smaller turbo-prop planes get me while jumbo jets are a breeze on the stomach.
This new camera is a floaty, dip and dive, swaying turbo-prop plane to my stomach. And as far as I can figure, most of that reaction is directly tied to only a few things. the inertia as this camera catches up with that I'm telling it to do, and the drift from my ship as center point. Speeding up settings does not completely remove either of these nausea inducing issues.
I know that description words like floaty, spongy, wandering, meandering, and soft are not good words to help fix coding.
But then again, same could be said for 'needs more pfssssh' to describe a wanted or needed change in a specific UI segment!
I've grown use to the short timing of camera 'drift' after I change direction of my view., as it is at the end. Adding that same drift then it catches up at the beginning of camera angle changes is just too much for my eyes and inner ears. There ya go CCP, less snarky and irate constructive suggestions to fix this.
I still want the old camera to remain, I won't budge on that suggestion! Pffft.
>Jeven
Minny boat flyer, unofficial squeaky wheel.
'Game Ethics and Morality Monitor' I remember promises.
Snark at 11-24/7/365.25. Overshare? Yup.
Yes it's my fault. And if you don't staap it I'll do it again. ;-P
No you can't has my stuffs OR my SPs.
|
Esnaelc Sin'led
The Unchained Club
65
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 22:56:38 -
[418] - Quote
I'm probably missing something, but nausea and fear of heights and anything related to this is caused by the "inner ear". In anycase your inner ear could be disturbed by a screen. It can with a virtual reality immersion like Occulus Rift, taking all one's perception field.
This is a screen, flat screen, with all your surrounding around it. Your appartment floor doesn't move as your ship moves neither does your inner ear.
I'm sorry if it seems disrespectfull, i'm just trying to understand.
And about that innertia btw, there's an option in Excape Menu, first left column of the "Display & Graphics" tab. Uncheck all the options listed below "Camera Settings", and the inertia should go away.
It remains for the Tracking Camera though, which is still work in progress i suppose. |
Klng Star
Goobies Inc.
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 23:22:27 -
[419] - Quote
Not a fan of how the new camera changes the options when you right click a destination in the current route. Currently "Jump through stargate" is the first option and with the new camera it is now the 3rd option which is annoying. |
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
325
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 23:26:42 -
[420] - Quote
I play with a laptop sitting on my lap... hold on, let me measure... about 18" from my eyes. The screen takes up about a third of what I can see around me without moving my eyes. Perhaps, because such a large portion of my view is moving oddly while the periphery is standing still has something to do with it?
I dunno. What I do know is I never had this happen with the old cam. Sitting here flying around space for hours at a time no problem... well, at least until my eyes have had enough of all the flashy lights, engine, and missile trails. Or being hunted. I'd take a break if being actively hunted too. Ha! Waste their time, I say!
GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½
|
|
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF Bad Intention
7
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 23:31:36 -
[421] - Quote
Esnaelc Sin'led wrote:And about that innertia btw, there's an option in Excape Menu, first left column of the "Display & Graphics" tab. http://i.imgur.com/vLqXgGm.png Uncheck all the options listed below "Camera Settings", and the inertia should go away. New-Camera with all the options unchecked feels very much like the old one.It remains for the Tracking Camera though, which is still work in progress i suppose. Nope, that does nothing about the inertia effect. Increasing the camera speed helps, but even at max it's very noticeable at reasonably high framerates. |
Esnaelc Sin'led
The Unchained Club
68
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 23:41:53 -
[422] - Quote
Well then i give up. I really don't see the same things. :/ |
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
325
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 00:11:32 -
[423] - Quote
Esnaelc Sin'led wrote:Well then i give up. I really don't see the same things. :/
We're all different, so that kinda makes sense.
GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½
|
Ogast
Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation
8
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 03:09:15 -
[424] - Quote
New camera lasted exactly 30 seconds before I un-ticked it. It's crap. My push to talk is right alt. I often spin my ship in space or station while talking now I get some horrible selection box that looks like it was pulled straight out of some other game. Furthermore I do not understand the need for a selection box as we are limited in the number of targets we can lock anyway thus if this is some new locking idea it's also crap and redundant.
Leave the old camera as an option for us to opt in and out of please.
I re-enabled it to try it out further and vastly prefer the old vs the new. |
Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Phoebe Freeport Republic
1707
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 03:41:24 -
[425] - Quote
I like a lot of the new additions but I really dislike the drift feature. Can we get an option to turn it off? I just would like to keep the actual view as the old camera. It also helps with zoom.
GÇ£Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do. GÇ¥ - Dale Carnegie
Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!
|
Alianovna Romanova
Federation Patriots Society of New Eden
2
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 03:55:49 -
[426] - Quote
I'm another "lurker", but I just have to put my 2-ó in on this issue.
I tried the new camera several times--I really want to like it, but there are too many show-stoppers. While I don't get the motion sickness, I do find the new camera very difficult to control. It looks to me like most of my issues are bugs, and I'm hopeful that they'll be corrected in the coming days. Among these issues: 1. When I track an object, the camera slides my ship out of the frame at the end of it's spin. I have to zoom way out to get back into the frame. Now, I just bought a nice new ship skin, and I would like to be able to see it while I'm flying around. ;-) Plus, and this is far more important, without the ship in the frame it's difficult to judge the relative positions of tracked objects.
2. When stop tracking, the zoom pops way out and I can't zoom back in on my ship. If I switch to first person and then back to orbit, it clears up, but that's a cumbersome work-around.
3. The camera will, seeming randomly, jump to an arbitrary angle. Suddenly I'll be looking up at my ship from below, even though there's nothing above me.
Those are what I believe are bugs. The one feature that is a show-stopper for me, as so many have mentioned already, is auto-tracking. It may seem that "hold down the C and click" isn't that much of a burden compared to just clicking, but it really is. I have all of my important modules on the top row, and I set auto target-back so that I generally don't have to ctrl-click to target (in PvE). I keep my left hand poised over the function keys so that I can fire/boost/rep/after-burn without looking at the keyboard. Moving my hand to the C key every time I want to change tracking completely messes this up, and slows my reaction time down considerably, as well as increasing the chances of pressing the wrong key in the heat of action.
Also, I'm one who very carefully sets up my custom tracking positioning, so having the camera decide what the "best" relative position of my ship to the tracked target would not be something I would be happy with. I imagine it wouldn't be good for people making videos, either--it seems to me a good cinematographer would want a great deal more control of the camera positioning and movement than the new controls give them.
I hope you are considering a way to reinstate the auto-tracking. I think this new camera could be an improvement if these issues are addressed. |
Lazlow Jones
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 08:53:20 -
[427] - Quote
I don't usually post here, but I felt compelled to.
Since I've been playing, I've been taking screenshots in space for my own enjoyment. Nowadays I do it all the time and make some pretty good ISK off it at times, and I get a bunch of stuff featured on websites such as MMORPG.com, TMC and the Asher Hour podcast. Hell, Seagull even followed me recently on the twitters :colbert:
I've recently had the displeasure of having to wrestle with these new camera modes, and I must say they're awful. Why are you looking to disable the old camera in favour of the new ones, when the new one is awful for anyone wanting to find unique angles for a good space ship porno shoot?
If you want to introduce new camera modes (that incidentally add extra layers of input to the equation) then that's cool, but for the love of god can you just leave the old camera mode available for us pilots wanting to use it?
This game has seen many changes in the past year, but removing something that works, in favour of forcing your playerbase to use a new toy many don't like whatsoever is not a good idea.
TLDR; Put your camera modes in, I don't care; but leave the old ones in and ALLOW us to determine which one we use. |
Seatox
Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team
63
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 09:34:20 -
[428] - Quote
Ok, I tried the new camera, I gave it a chance, but it just dosn't feel right. I've gotten too used to using Auto-track and clicking on the overview to orient myself against celestials, hitting C is one step too many. Why did you throw out the "Auto-track" options from the old camera? You even had a pretty UI icon for them.
I keep right-clicking in orbit camera mode to pan the camera around to look at things - and nothing happens. Tactical is useless, because of this habit. The whole "not remembering your tactical overlay setting if you switch modes" thing makes it worse.
The ship speed offset option and the Dynamic FOV settings are terrible, and made me feel motion sick until I killed them. I don't normally get motion sick from vidyagames. |
Dantesi Cadelanne
Ubiquitous Hurt The WeHurt Initiative
8
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 09:34:33 -
[429] - Quote
Approximately 168 hours after the release of this mandatory opt in, and no substantive information on how our feedback has been received and recognized. Can we get an estimate on when our concerns will be addressed in full?
Links to current poll related to the Dev blog: Unboxing the new Camera in EVE Online
http://imgur.com/xUd2UJb (Initial Poll Data)
https://twitter.com/EVE_Dantesi/status/697896708810735617 Poll Link
02/11/2016
|
Terraj Oknatis
xX-Crusader-Xx Tactical Narcotics Team
30
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 09:47:05 -
[430] - Quote
I have not met one player who likes this new camera.
If it isn't broke then don't fix it. Learn to make a camera that feels like the old one. This camera is laggy as **** and is missing features that the old one had, but worst of all it just feels off. What the hell is wrong with keeping an option for the old camera. There is nothing wrong with that. goddamnit...
Just... listen to the players for once in your life ...
RAGING AT THE MOMENT |
|
Gen Mo'Kai
Phayder Corporation
8
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 10:18:00 -
[431] - Quote
I would like to start by saying that I have not read all the comments in this thread and what I am posting here might have been posted a few times already, in which case I apologize.
The new camera has some very neat features, it is very convenient to be able to use "look at" at targets more than 100km away and I suppose the camera provides some nice movie-like sensation for those who are into that. My biggest concern with the camera is the loss of functionality. With the old camera, you could easily D-scan a specific location by using tracking mode and using 15 or 5 degrees scans. Tracking still works with the new camera [although not in warp, which is pretty silly] on all clickable objects in space. There is however, one major feature missing.....
The old camera tracking mode also worked with anomalies and signatures. You could simply click on the anomaly in the screen and press C to pinpoint a specific location. With the new camera, this functionality is lost, which is the biggest reason I have to disable the new camera when hunting targets.
If this was done by design, I guess I will have to live with that. I would however, very much encourage to look into this issue and make appropriate changes. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5260
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 10:32:33 -
[432] - Quote
After tweaking the new orbit camera speed and unchecking all the features of new camera it feels much like the old one. But, I still cant zoom out as far as I could earlier, so its a detriment. Also I cant use pan feature with it. So its another detriment. Not that I used zoom out so much, but some people do. Also pan with alt +F9 was a quick way to make a nice screenshoot for me. So I think it is more of an issue for me.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
|
CCP Turtlepower
C C P C C P Alliance
269
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 11:52:42 -
[433] - Quote
Ahoyhoy,
Today, we deployed the following features to Tranquility:
- Added tracking camera toggle (enable with Shift + C) to the Orbit mode - Added a new way to D-Scan: hold V and click (V can be changed to other keys via the settings menu).
And the following bug fixes:
- Fixed an issue where players could get stuck in the space scene when docked, after using first person mode - Fixed turrets not being visible on other ships - Fixed an issue that could cause a strange "fishbowl" FOV after jumping - Anomalies and bookmarks can now be tracked - Tracking of ships that are warping away is now maintained until the tracked ship leaves the grid
More fixes and tweaks coming soon. Thanks for all the feedback and patience.
o7 CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters |
|
Silverbackyererse
The Church of Awesome
192
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 11:55:48 -
[434] - Quote
You also broke the D-Scan on the old camera mate. Thanks. |
MuraSaki Siki
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
65
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 12:03:40 -
[435] - Quote
Request : mouse right button drag to pan the camera, and restore position when release right button
manual zoom when panning camera although it can also be done in new camera mode, it can only be zoomed to the centre |
Esnaelc Sin'led
The Unchained Club
68
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 12:13:50 -
[436] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Ahoyhoy,
Today, we deployed the following features to Tranquility:
- Added tracking camera toggle (enable with Shift + C) to the Orbit mode - Added a new way to D-Scan: hold V and click (V can be changed to other keys via the settings menu).
Thanks !! GÖÑGÖÑGÖÑGÖÑGÖÑ
Couple of things still not ok, in my opinion :
1.Offset : While tracking, the ship is still offset from the center of the screen. It's not very disturbing when zoomed out far, but it is when zoomed in close. Ship sometimes appear behind the field of view.
2.Zoom reset. After a jump through gate (might be through bridge as well, i've not tested it) the zoom distance i've chose is reset to very up close.
3.DScan Result : Delayed result is ok for me. Though line by line could be very annoying to wait for quick intel through DScan result recap sites that ask to CTRL+A / CTRL+C / CTRL+V.
Proposed fixes :
1. Offset : - Make the 'Offset' thing a general option in Camera Settings, not only for the ship speed. - Add a "reticule" at the center of the screen when toggle track is on, to prevent the feeling of not actually DScanning what a player has selected.
2.Zoom reset : Well you should know better. :D That's mostly pure codish i presume.
3.DScan Result : If you really want to keep that sort of fade-in delayed display then make it for the WHOLE result, not line by line. |
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF Bad Intention
7
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 12:22:21 -
[437] - Quote
Ok, so I logged in, unbound Track, bound Toggle Auto Tracking to C, and did some testing. The tracking toggle seems to be working quite well, so that's the biggest issue fixed. It's still missing two things the old one had though: 1. It doesn't start tracking the selected item when toggled on. I'm not sure if that's better or worse than the old way, but it's quite a noticeable difference. 2. Clicking an anomaly in the probe scanner window still doesn't track it. That was a very handy feature when trying to see where anomalies are relative to other things. Now we have to spend ages looking around in space to figure out where an an anomaly is. It also seems to have completely broken the tracking feature with the old camera. 3. The old camera's tracking toggle doesn't seem to work and is instead an option to track a certain item. Doing so makes the camera go all buggy and not respond to controls in the expected way.
While adding the tracking toggle is a very good change, and addresses the biggest single complaint about the new camera, adding the toggle will also bring more attention to another problem: 4. The way tracking mode moves your ship to the side is quite inconvenient. For most of us with cluttered screens, the ship ends up behind a window. Beyond that, moving the ship away from its normal location in the center of the screen also makes it much harder to judge direction and distance, and it has weird effects when switching between multiple tracking targets. Keeping the ship in the center and making the tracking position movable like before would be a vast improvement. I'm not sure if this is the correct thread, but the dscan changes are all kinds of broken. The "V" hotkey isn't actually V for most people who try to use it, anyone who has it bound to a mouse button seems to have camera problems, and slowly adding results line by line seems like the most unpopular change since making the new camera opt out. |
Arwen Frostfall
Lucifer's Hammer A Band Apart.
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 12:40:51 -
[438] - Quote
I'm happy that you've added a toggle to enable tracking on the new orbit camera but I feel it could be tweaked slightly.
At the moment if I click onto different items on my overview the tracking camera swings or flips so quickly it is disorientating. Slow it down just a tad and it should be fine. |
Trajan Unknown
Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops
87
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:00:12 -
[439] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Ahoyhoy,
Today, we deployed the following features to Tranquility:
- Added tracking camera toggle (enable with Shift + C) to the Orbit mode - Added a new way to D-Scan: hold V and click (V can be changed to other keys via the settings menu).
And the following bug fixes:
- Fixed an issue where players could get stuck in the space scene when docked, after using first person mode - Fixed turrets not being visible on other ships - Fixed an issue that could cause a strange "fishbowl" FOV after jumping - Anomalies and bookmarks can now be tracked - Tracking of ships that are warping away is now maintained until the tracked ship leaves the grid
More fixes and tweaks coming soon. Thanks for all the feedback and patience.
o7 CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
Well, nice change sadly the camera is still off the ship when using tracking so the change was pretty much useless. There is no use in tracking something when you lose the hold of your ship/center point.
|
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF Bad Intention
7
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:09:03 -
[440] - Quote
Trajan Unknown wrote:
Well, nice change sadly the camera is still off the ship when using tracking so the change was pretty much useless. There is no use in tracking something when you lose the hold of your ship/center point.
One thing at a time. I'm sure that will be fixed sometime soon, but there's only so much time to work on stuff. The biggest and most widespread complaint was lack of tracking toggle, so they addressed that first. The second biggest complaint seems to be nausea, which is a lot harder to work on. After that, there are numerous things to work on, and I'm sure they're well aware that the ship offset when tracking is disliked by a lot of players. They'll get around to it eventually. |
|
Caroline Grace
Retrostellar Boulevard
688
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:15:49 -
[441] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Ahoyhoy,
Today, we deployed the following features to Tranquility:
- Added tracking camera toggle (enable with Shift + C) to the Orbit mode - Added a new way to D-Scan: hold V and click (V can be changed to other keys via the settings menu).
And the following bug fixes:
- Fixed an issue where players could get stuck in the space scene when docked, after using first person mode - Fixed turrets not being visible on other ships - Fixed an issue that could cause a strange "fishbowl" FOV after jumping - Anomalies and bookmarks can now be tracked - Tracking of ships that are warping away is now maintained until the tracked ship leaves the grid
More fixes and tweaks coming soon. Thanks for all the feedback and patience.
o7 CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters Hey Turtlebutt, thanks for all the updates!
Some feedback:
GÇóThe fading effect on D-Scan could be a little bit faster, as you generally want to get the information from it as fast as possible. GÇó V+click causes my camera to "float" away from my ship completely to grace the center of the object I'm scanning. When I try to reset the camera afterwards by moving it around the camera creates a dramatic twist. GÇóShift+C for tracking is awesome, thank you Although when you select to track something that is 180-¦ on the opposite side of your camera, it wiggles and turns a bit too dramatically. Perhaps add some grace to the movement.
I'm Caroline Grace, and this is my favorite spaceship in the Citadel.
|
Soltys
79
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:16:24 -
[442] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Ahoyhoy,
Today, we deployed the following features to Tranquility:
- Added tracking camera toggle (enable with Shift + C) to the Orbit mode
Ok, a tiny step in good direction.
But:
- why do you add 5th shortcut key, when there're are already 4 dedicated to the tracking camera ?
Forgot about those ?
Tracking Camera: Center Tracking Position Tracking Camera: Custom Tracking Position Tracking Camera: Toggle point camera to selected item Tracking Camera: Toggle Tracking Position Mode
- the ship is not in the center, and the camera changes zoom - when we turn off tracking in orbit mode, the camera doesn't even go back to the ship - where is custom position ?
We need classic toggle camera back: custom/center position, own ship in the center always, no zoom games, use existing keybinds.
How hard is that to understand ?
Jita Flipping Inc.: Solmp / Kovl
|
Beta Maoye
89
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:16:58 -
[443] - Quote
It's always good to have more camera options. Just don't take away the original options that we used to use. They are not mutually exclusive. Please give me back the option to keep my ship at the centre of screen. I don't feel comfortable when the camera is "detached" from my ship. It feels like I am not looking at my ship, but looking into the void next to my ship, when I am panning around. I need something to attach to as a reference point to view in a 3D environment. Otherwise, I feel dizzy. Detached camera in tactical view is OK because it has a centre point of reference on screen. In other views, my ship on the screen is a reference point for me. Please provide an option to keep it at the centre. |
Alle Monte
Perkone Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:21:43 -
[444] - Quote
So now that d-scan doesn't work at all for me, who wants my stuff? |
Lavayar
Russian SOBR Dream Fleet
241
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:25:30 -
[445] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote: - Added a new way to D-Scan: hold V and click (V can be changed to other keys via the settings menu).
And you broke it too. That fancy delay in D-scan results is awful. Don't you understand that D-scan is the thing which pilot needs to view immediately? Please change it back. |
|
CCP Turtlepower
C C P C C P Alliance
273
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:29:16 -
[446] - Quote
Quick update:
Old D-Scan is broken, but we have it fixed internally already, and a fix going out ASAP. We realize the results list is populating too slowly, we will improve that ASAP as well.
o7 CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters |
|
Trajan Unknown
Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops
87
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:30:43 -
[447] - Quote
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:Trajan Unknown wrote:
Well, nice change sadly the camera is still off the ship when using tracking so the change was pretty much useless. There is no use in tracking something when you lose the hold of your ship/center point.
One thing at a time. I'm sure that will be fixed sometime soon, but there's only so much time to work on stuff. The biggest and most widespread complaint was lack of tracking toggle, so they addressed that first. The second biggest complaint seems to be nausea, which is a lot harder to work on. After that, there are numerous things to work on, and I'm sure they're well aware that the ship offset when tracking is disliked by a lot of players. They'll get around to it eventually.
Have you tried the tracking mode? It is the same **** as it was before except you can toggle it now. That is no improvement at all because tracking doesn-¦t help at all when you don-¦t know where your ship is in relation to the object you are tracking. |
Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1817
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:30:50 -
[448] - Quote
While I can appreciate trying to make things look more interesting, delayed d-scan results are just not the way to go in my opinion. May I ask what the reasoning behind this change was? |
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF Bad Intention
7
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:31:56 -
[449] - Quote
Alle Monte wrote:So now that d-scan doesn't work at all for me, who wants my stuff? I would totally take it except d-scan doesn't work for me either. |
Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1817
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:34:28 -
[450] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Quick update:
Old D-Scan is broken, but we have it fixed internally already, and a fix going out ASAP. We realize the results list is populating too slowly, we will improve that ASAP as well.
o7 CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
So is there an intentional delay that is just moving too slowly, or is the entire delay part of the problem? |
|
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF Bad Intention
8
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:41:02 -
[451] - Quote
Ned Thomas wrote:CCP Turtlepower wrote:Quick update:
Old D-Scan is broken, but we have it fixed internally already, and a fix going out ASAP. We realize the results list is populating too slowly, we will improve that ASAP as well.
o7 CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters So is there an intentional delay that is just moving too slowly, or is the entire delay part of the problem? If you ask the players, any delay is a problem. |
Kazi Kugisa
EVE University Ivy League
57
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:43:23 -
[452] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Ahoyhoy,
Today, we deployed the following features to Tranquility:
- Added tracking camera toggle (enable with Shift + C) to the Orbit mode - Added a new way to D-Scan: hold V and click (V can be changed to other keys via the settings menu).
/snip
More fixes and tweaks coming soon. Thanks for all the feedback and patience.
o7 CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
I know you are trying but there comes a time to kick the ball away and play defense. First, I want to congratulate you on the inevitable crapstorm on TQ from the quick installation of the V kludge. I'm sure it will be as well received as a Doomsday to a carrier. Not even from a gameplay option, I can't imagine the effect it will have on server performance as they have to process thousands upon thousands of V's each server tick. Not even to mention the clunkiness of the whole setup and that silly lag in populating DSCAN.
This is a classic 80/20 implementation. The problem is that there are too many important features in the 20% that the vast majority of the userbase depends on. Yes, I know you have to have the new camera for capitals and citadels. However, it is really time for a project manager or CCP Fozzie to step in and come up with a plan B. It is obvious that the new camera will not be in an acceptable format for the March release for most of the user base. I will reiterate the only option that is going to let you meet the deadline without full revolt or subscriber loss. I will say this, if forced into this unworking camera in the next release, I will just put all my accounts into Skillqueue Online mode until the subs expire at the end of April and then not renew until I hear that it is fixed. All of my alts purpose is to make ISK so I can lose ships in PVP. This change destroys my PVP playstyle. If I'm not PVPing, I don't need to be hauling, missioning, nor doing industry.
I urge the devs to use this plan B that I will restate one more time:
1) Reset every camera back to the new camera by default with the next patch
2) Code in a requirement that will automatically force a camera switch for using ships or structures that require the new camera. Make sure that no opt-opt can be done while in such a situation. (It would be nice to have the camera reset to prefered option when leaving ship/structure but to get things going, I'd be fine with just re enabling the toggle)
3) Keep the old camera functional for anyone else until the final 20% of the coding can be done to make the new camera better than the old camera in every way.
CCP Turtlepower, CCP Fozzie, et al, please please please don't force this new camera on a large part of your userbase that it is going to hurt. o7
|
Gen Mo'Kai
Phayder Corporation
9
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:43:46 -
[453] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Quick update:
Old D-Scan is broken, but we have it fixed internally already, and a fix going out ASAP. We realize the results list is populating too slowly, we will improve that ASAP as well.
o7 CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
So do you plan to add the fade-in animation to the overview as well? For most wormholers having an up-to-date D-scan is more important than the overview itself. |
Noene Drops
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
9
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:44:43 -
[454] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Quick update:
Old D-Scan is broken, but we have it fixed internally already, and a fix going out ASAP. We realize the results list is populating too slowly, we will improve that ASAP as well.
o7 CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters But do you realize that the use case of 'just dscan around me' is sort of broken now, because if you have a celestial selected in Overview, and then press dscan button, the camera will rotate to it automatically, unlike it was before?
Simple example, consider a combat situation, say, you're clearing an anomaly in lowsec. You have pre-aligned to a celestial, you keep that celestial selected to warp out in case you get jumped at, while your drones just clear rats. You have your camera rotated in a way that allows you to see your grid, and when you press dscan button to see what's going on, the camera will rotate to selected celestial, in a completely unexpected manner; now you don't see your grid and lose situational awareness.
The example above is not completely unrealistic. What's worse is that now dscan behavior deviates from what it was before for no apparent reason, and that leads to confusion. Please reconsider this change and make the dscan work like it worked, because losing situational awareness is not fun. |
Onamata Poeia
University of Caille Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:50:59 -
[455] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote: We realize the results list is populating too slowly, we will improve that ASAP as well.
From my perspective, anything less than INSTANT is too slow.
So, for clarity, is the intention to go back to d-scan results showing instantly or to make the needless fluff animation a little bit quicker but still not instant. |
Raphendyr Nardieu
Unpublished Chapter Suddenly Content
72
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:53:06 -
[456] - Quote
Thanks for the tracking camera. Also I noticed that if you reselect the orbit mode, it will set the chase mode. Nice addition.
While looking those buttons next to capacitor.. Could the open cargo and autopilot be moved some where else? Those don't belong to that group so much. Though I don't know good places for this.
Another thing. IMHO (others can desagree) the tacktical camera button could be a menu, Similar to the scan button. Thus you could put the toggle tracking camera option under that and probably other options for the camera too, when those are created. |
RuleoftheBone
Stellar Conundrum
27
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:57:38 -
[457] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Ahoyhoy,
Today, we broke scanning and probing and camera features on Tranquility:
We shall continue to ignore all well reasoned and detailed explanations of WHY these changes are bad for gameplay. lulz. More fixes and tweaks coming soon. Thanks for all the feedback and patience.
o7 CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
Ok....I am actually annoyed to log into an unplayable game in WH space. Old dscan broken. New dscan and associated probe map remains icky for serious pilots...never mind the delay in display.
I am imploring you to spend less time worrying about your reddit score and more time actually listening to what is getting broken for no reason.
THIS is the sort of thing that can and will lead to long time players not bothering to renew subs.
This is not a balance issue....it is a game play issue. Game=fun. No fun=do something else.
I hope you fix this stuff.
Cheers
Bone |
Jarrec DuMorne
Concordiat Spaceship Samurai
9
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 14:02:36 -
[458] - Quote
Well then, I really never thought i would ever say this but: My alts subscription is due by the end of the months, and for now I will not resub it....
As a paying customer, the old camera is the product I want. Give me the option to continue using it and I will gladly give you more money.
I can live with the new camera if you:
* Re-implement the right-click freelook and zoom option!! (I use it every day, and i simply have no idea what im supposed to replace that function with, once its gone.)
* Re-implenent a tracking camera that works exactly as the old one, which does not offset the ships location and has an adjustable point of interest.
I still wouldnt be happy with this product, but i would call it a day and stop complaining. This whole affair, the way the camera works, the "cinematic" inertia and field of view stuff shows, that you have completly missunderstood what the camera is for. In the end of the day, i play this game because i really enjoy the experience, and reducing the amount of control i have over the games controls will dampen the enjoyment.
Again: the old camera is the product i want to pay for. Now, in one month, one year and 10 years from now. |
Sharps
WiNGSPAN Academy for Enterprising Pilots The WINGSPAN Logo Alliance
13
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 14:07:10 -
[459] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Quick update:
Old D-Scan is broken, but we have it fixed internally already, and a fix going out ASAP. We realize the results list is populating too slowly, we will improve that ASAP as well.
o7 CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
I'm responding to this post as well as this tweet from CCP Lebowski https://twitter.com/CCP_Lebowski/status/699587641138925568 (I don't have a Twitter account to reply to him)
Please retain the option to opt out of any transition effect. This talk of "improving" the speed and Lebowski's mention of "less than a half second" is not acceptable. This is a game where half-seconds count.
Serious scanners do not want this fluff. We never asked for this fluff. Please let us opt out of it completely. |
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF Bad Intention
8
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 14:07:21 -
[460] - Quote
RuleoftheBone wrote: I am imploring you to spend less time worrying about your reddit score and more time actually listening to what is getting broken for no reason.
Trust me, if they were actually paying attention to Reddit the broken parts of this update would never have gone through. The Reddit community doesn't approve of the V command or the slow dscan list either, and I have a feeling the old dscan window breaking is related to the V function. |
|
Longdrinks
Leather Club Paisti Syndicate
241
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 14:11:19 -
[461] - Quote
If you want a animation to show that the dscan window has updated just make them all scroll in left from right at the same time. Not this useless fluff that forces you to keep your eyes glued to the list until the last item is revealed, |
Balaur Venatores
Nordului Chapters.
8
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 14:13:20 -
[462] - Quote
ty for camera auto-tracking o7
Orbit camera active, auto-tracking on, when autopiloting with shuttle my ship is lost from fov on every warp after gate jump. |
Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1818
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 14:21:55 -
[463] - Quote
If the d-scan animation is as quick as proposed by Lebowski on Twitter/Reddit, then I could learn to live with it, but I'd rather not HAVE to learn to live with it when d-scan worked perfectly fine before. |
Scotsman Howard
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
19
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 14:24:13 -
[464] - Quote
For those of us at work and have not had time to test this yet, can someone please give me a basic idea of how a couple of these things are working right now?
toggle tracking camera" - Does this mean you can turn it on or off like the old camera's "focus on selected item" option (or whatever it was actually called)? It sounds like the center of the focus is off from some of the other comments, but it is at least a start. Does this toggle last session to session, system to system, etc.? or does it need to be re-toggled every time?
D-scan hotkey (V + Click) - How exactly is this different other than adding a click? Did they not add a d-scan hotkey option a while ago that does not involve a click?
Thanks for the help understanding what is happening. |
Mister Ripley
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
162
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 14:26:59 -
[465] - Quote
Invert zoom direction is still not working. |
Sharps
WiNGSPAN Academy for Enterprising Pilots The WINGSPAN Logo Alliance
14
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 14:28:33 -
[466] - Quote
Ned Thomas wrote:If the d-scan animation is as quick as proposed by Lebowski on Twitter/Reddit, then I could learn to live with it, but I'd rather not HAVE to learn to live with it when d-scan worked perfectly fine before.
Forcing a UI effect with every scan is a quality of life detriment. It ruins the ability to detect simple shifts with your peripheral vision. |
Balaur Venatores
Nordului Chapters.
8
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 14:34:42 -
[467] - Quote
Scotsman Howard wrote:Does this mean you can turn it on or off like the old camera's "focus on selected item" option (or whatever it was actually called)? Yes, with the hotkey.
Scotsman Howard wrote:It sounds like the center of the focus is off from some of the other comments, but it is at least a start. Yes.
Scotsman Howard wrote:Does this toggle last session to session, system to system, etc.? Yes, for both. |
Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1818
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 14:35:14 -
[468] - Quote
Sharps wrote:Forcing a UI effect with every scan is a quality of life detriment. It ruins the ability to detect simple shifts with your peripheral vision.
You'll get no argument from me there. |
Trajan Unknown
Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops
91
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 14:54:33 -
[469] - Quote
I think I finally figured out what you did.
This so called feature
Quote:When looking at other ships, camera is allowed to drift slowly, making it very easy to set up super cool fly-by shots. Drifting can be temporarily disabled by holding down the left mouse button for a steady view when you need to take a closer look. When looking at your own ship, we allow an almost negligible amount of drift to achieve a subtle parallax effect as the nebula moves by ever so slowly.
combined with this
Quote:The tracking camera implementation has also changed so that we now always keep the tracked object center-screen, while pushing the foreground object to the side as we zoom in.
Is what totally triggers me all the time. Cinematic stuff is all nice and dandy but make it an option for video makers because for real flying it-¦s not useful. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
27158
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 14:57:41 -
[470] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Ahoyhoy,
Today, we deployed the following features to Tranquility:
- Added tracking camera toggle (enable with Shift + C) to the Orbit mode
I don't have the client at hand, but can that be reversed? As in, C toggles tracking camera, and Shift-C does the silly new multi-button-press-click method that no-one cares for?
Quote:More fixes and tweaks coming soon. Thanks for all the feedback and patience.
The following stuff still needs to be fixed:
GÇó Tracking camera does not track GÇö it GÇ£looksGÇ¥. By this I mean that the tracking camera puts the target in focus, rather than show your ship and the target in relation to that ship. It behaves as a very clumsy and pointless way to do what you used to do with the old GÇ£look -> set as parent -> set as targetGÇ¥ advanced camera combo. No-one particularly used that because it had no real gameplay use (it made for good video fodder, but that's something unrelated and largely irrelevant that doesn't need its own camera mode).
The tracking camera needs to work like the old tracking camera: your ship in the middle (or at an adjustable offset); the target kept on-screen at an adjustable position; no camera tricks (no FoV or zoom or anything) other than rotating to ensure that both positions are on-screen and as close to their set-up points as possible. Otherwise, it becomes somewhere between pointless or just outright unintuitive for anything related to navigation, scanning, or actuallyGǪ you knowGǪ tracking a target.
GÇó Look camera does not look GÇö it follows/does a fly-by Looking at a target should do only exactly that: it puts the target at the centre of the screen; everything else works as normal in relation to this new focus object. No automated camera movement; no automated adjustments; nothing except what the user does to the camera (manually adjusting slew, zoom, FoV etc). At the moment, you constantly have to fight the camera's automation to be able to analyse details of the target object, which means it is largely pointless forGǪ you knowGǪ looking at a target.
If you want to have a camera mode that offers all kinds of cinematic automation, then go ahead and do so, but keep it far far far away from the regular orbit camera that is used to actually play the game.
GÇó Look camera has no toggle. Just like C should toggle the tracking camera on or off, alt-clicking a target (or nothing) should toggle the GÇ£lookGÇ¥ camera. The snap-back from target to your own ship should be pretty much instant. It may look neat when the camera flies around in space, but it is useless and just wastes precious time and ruins situational awareness.
GÇó Adjustable (or just a setting for no) acceleration on zoom, FoV, rotation, and dolly moves. GǪand for the love of all that's holy, make the acceleration (or lack thereof) equal both the yaw and pitch axes. This is not the same thing as a speed setting GÇö the speed of all of the above should also be user-adjustable since everyone has differently precise mice and prefer different movement speeds. But the acceleration, if you have any at all, must be disconnected from that and be an option for the user.
GÇó Bring back rclick-slewing of the camera. Being able to quickly look around in a different direction and then have the camera snap back to its previous position is invaluable.
GÇó Bring back Alt-RL-drag FoV/zoom adjustments. With larger grids and longer GÇ£lookGÇ¥ distances, the ability to manually adjust your zoom and FoV is more valuable than ever, so removing it at this point is absolutely nonsensical. Since you've spent all this time refactoring the code, maybe now is a good time to make those adjustments persistent across docking events?
GÇó GǪindeed, make all camera settings persistent. Such as the position and zoom of the camera between mode changes and docking events; tactical overview settings for the respective modes; indeed any manual adjustment the player can make should be the way they left it when they come back to that view mode.
Oh, and while you're at it, get one of those old banner printing apps, print the following so that each letter takes up roughly an A0 sheet of paper, and plaster it above the UI stations as one of those work-space motivator posters you see in some movies:
Sharps wrote:Forcing a UI effect with every scan-áon anything is a quality of life detriment. Live by that rule. It'll make everyone much happier in the future. Coincidentally, you need to stop applying hollywood-UI effects on everything.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
|
|
Gargantua Austrene
Catastrophic Breakthrough. ADPT Nation
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 15:01:21 -
[471] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Quick update:
Old D-Scan is broken, but we have it fixed internally already, and a fix going out ASAP. We realize the results list is populating too slowly, we will improve that ASAP as well.
o7 CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters may i ask how something like that can happen? Dont you guys test the bullshit you code before making it live? what about unfucking the existing game before adding more broken content? ccp wtf?!?!?!? |
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF Bad Intention
10
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 15:05:54 -
[472] - Quote
Tippia wrote: I don't have the client at hand, but can that be reversed? As in, C toggles tracking camera, and Shift-C does the silly new multi-button-press-click method that no-one cares for?
Yes it can, but be warned that changing the hotkeys to swap those functions has the side effect of breaking the tracking hotkey for the old camera. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
27159
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 15:08:38 -
[473] - Quote
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:Tippia wrote: I don't have the client at hand, but can that be reversed? As in, C toggles tracking camera, and Shift-C does the silly new multi-button-press-click method that no-one cares for?
Yes it can, but be warned that changing the hotkeys to swap those functions has the side effect of breaking the tracking hotkey for the old camera. :cripes:
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
|
Cien Banchiere
Extrinsic Arcadia Distribution
42
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 15:25:16 -
[474] - Quote
I'm pressed for time and haven't seen much, well anything, on adding the ability to move your camera around in the future as with the last tracking camera.
And is there going to be a way, or is there a way, to stop that god-awful swaying when the camera tracks something. I don't get nauseous like some do, but it can be disorienting when my camera drone has no idea where it wants to be in relation to my ship. Then my ship moves so far to th left and back it's no longer on screen. It also snaps unreasonably fast in my opinion. Clicking on something directly behind me or to my direct left/right swings the camera like it's the last thing it'll ever do.
I like the new cameras and options, believe me. I just feel like it was unnecessary to remove a lot of the things that made the old camera work to give us something that's not truely out of beta. |
Kazi Kugisa
EVE University Ivy League
59
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 15:28:04 -
[475] - Quote
Scotsman Howard wrote:For those of us at work and have not had time to test this yet, can someone please give me a basic idea of how a couple of these things are working right now?
toggle tracking camera" - Does this mean you can turn it on or off like the old camera's "focus on selected item" option (or whatever it was actually called)? It sounds like the center of the focus is off from some of the other comments, but it is at least a start. Does this toggle last session to session, system to system, etc.? or does it need to be re-toggled every time?
D-scan hotkey (V + Click) - How exactly is this different other than adding a click? Did they not add a d-scan hotkey option a while ago that does not involve a click?
Thanks for the help understanding what is happening.
On the D-scan, you have to keep the V key held down while clicking the object at the same time. If it was press V and then click, I would be cool with it. I could map it to a mousebutton, like I do with the D-Scan hotkey. I can't map a continuous press. So now my only typing hand is tied to the V key the entire time I try to go through a list of celestials. |
Arline Kley
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
639
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 15:40:25 -
[476] - Quote
Gave the new camera a try last night. lasted all of 5 mintues before I returned to the standard camera.
"For it was said they had become like those peculiar demons, which dwell in matter but in whom no light may be found." - Father Grigori, Ravens 3:57
|
Pix Severus
Empty You
3095
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 15:42:08 -
[477] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Quick update:
Old D-Scan is broken, but we have it fixed internally already, and a fix going out ASAP. We realize the results list is populating too slowly, we will improve that ASAP as well.
o7 CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
Are you going to bring the server down for this today? I literally cannot play EVE right now.
My lord.
|
|
CCP Turtlepower
C C P C C P Alliance
276
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 15:46:39 -
[478] - Quote
Old D-Scan is now fixed on Tranquility. If you are affected, you will need to restart your client and launcher to get the fix.
Once again, sorry about the inconvenience.
CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters |
|
Bloemkoolsaus
Viperfleet Inc. Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle
208
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 15:46:59 -
[479] - Quote
Sharps wrote:Forcing a UI effect with every scan is a quality of life detriment. It ruins the ability to detect simple shifts with your peripheral vision.
What this man said. |
Trajan Unknown
Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops
91
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 15:53:53 -
[480] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Old D-Scan is now fixed on Tranquility. If you are affected, you will need to restart your client and launcher to get the fix.
Once again, sorry about the inconvenience.
CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
How about some feedback to the camera? Nice that you-¦ve fixed the stuff so fast but no feedback on the 20 sth pages of people telling you guys what-¦s wrong is a bit rude isn-¦t it? |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
27164
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 15:58:05 -
[481] - Quote
Pix Severus wrote:CCP Turtlepower wrote:Quick update:
Old D-Scan is broken, but we have it fixed internally already, and a fix going out ASAP. We realize the results list is populating too slowly, we will improve that ASAP as well.
Are you going to bring the server down for this today? I literally cannot play EVE right now. Just a bit more rant-spam to get this point across.
I don't know if the UI team fully grasps this: ships live and die by the UI. As in: if the UI isn't fast and efficient, ships are lost for no reason other than that the UI is bad. People who don't want to lose ships (either their own or missing out on a target) really can't play the game if this stuff isn't working.
I understand that you guys in the UI team get screamed at a lot, but this is why: you are modifying one of the most critical components of the entire game. People have quite literally spent years building up methods and muscle memory to become fast at this in order to either catch or avoid an opponent that is doing their best to reverse the situation. If (more likely when) you change things up so that training no longer works, people get annoyed, but at least they can learn. When you change things so that functionality is lost GÇö when stuff no longer works GÇö people get properly, and entirely rightfully, upset because there's no coming back from that.
A camera that doesn't show what the user wants to see is useless. A camera that tries to guess what should be shown based on what a developer thinks looks neat is worse than useless. A camera that suddenly requires the user to jump through hoops to do something it did in a single button press or mouse sweep is as close to useless as to make no difference. The change from a working state to a missing one is an inherently bad change, and it is entirely irrelevant how much better the underlying code is because the code is not what players use to play the game.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
|
Gargantua Austrene
Catastrophic Breakthrough. ADPT Nation
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 15:58:35 -
[482] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Old D-Scan is now fixed on Tranquility. If you are affected, you will need to restart your client and launcher to get the fix.
Once again, sorry about the inconvenience.
CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters it still doesnt work for me |
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
427
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:05:19 -
[483] - Quote
From what I can see right now I'm starting to get a little more comfortable with the new camera. Having the tracking toggle is a big improvement. For those not aware you can also right click on the orbit camera button and toggle the tracking mode.
Just a few things though, 1. I know you added the "hold v" click thing that automatically dscans what you select. Currently when the tracking camera toggle is enabled it also automatically runs a scan whenever you select and object from the over view. Even without using the "hold V" short cut. This is fine with me thus far. I haven't come up with any scenarios in my head where this could cause any issues and actually reduces the need to refresh dscan for every celestial you're trying to scan down. I'm just curious if it's intentional or not. If so I think it's good and a step in the right direction for reducing input requirements and efficiency. If not... pls don't fix it.
2. The Dscan population fade in isn't actually so bad. I don't know if you've already increased the speed at which it happens since the initial patch but I think it's fast enough that it doesn't really cause any concern. "Just" fast enough but fast enough.
3. PLEASE remove the camera offset when using tracking camera give it an on/off option or at least tie it to the speed shift offset option so we can turn it off. As I illustrated with my earlier screen shot and video that offset completely obscures my ship behind windows.
# 3 alone is what is keeping me from keeping the new camera enabled right now. It also contributes to vertigo sensations which although it hasn't greatly effected me yet, (don't know if it will over longer use as I haven't been able to use the new camera long enough to find out due to functionality) removing that drift/offset may help remove some of the motion sick problems others have as well.
Thanks for a good start to tues patch with these improvements and for listening to our feed back thus far. I think maybe by mar 9th we'll be good to go with the new camera if you just finish off these last few issues.
Daemun of Khanid
|
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
1595
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:08:41 -
[484] - Quote
I've said it before (likely in this thread) and I'll say it again.
If you're working on the UI in EVE, look, we get it. You want it to look pretty like the rest of the game. That's cool.
But you're doing so at the expense of core functionality, every. Goddamn. Time.
The beta starmap. Still missing core functionality from the original map.
Beta camera. Still missing core functionality from the original camera.
This new d-scan animation? Outright removes core functionality from the tool.
Function over form. Function over form. Function over form. Repeat it until it sinks in, or this cycle of UI tweaks followed by supernovas of player rage will not end.
Morwen Lagann
CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar
Owner, The Golden Masque
|
Niriel Greez
Pwn 'N Play SpaceMonkey's Alliance
51
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:17:57 -
[485] - Quote
The thing is, we don't /WANT/ a fade-in. Just make it refresh instantly. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1969
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:21:25 -
[486] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:
Sorry about that, I should have worded that differently. I meant that the list BEGINS to populate instantly. This is quicker than in the old camera because you don't have to wait for the camera to move first before it populates.
CCP Turtlepower
What, exactly, was the rationale behind this?
I'm generally pretty quick to defend the various UI changes you guys make. Many of them need polish, but I can see the potential.
I feel confident in saying that this is something nobody wants, nobody has ever wanted, and nobody will ever want.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
|
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
428
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:23:34 -
[487] - Quote
Oh my, never mind. I can see what's happening w my dscan refreshing every time now. I socket closed before so wasn't able to finish testing it out.
When the Dscan refreshed key is pressed it basically toggles it on. So then you can sit there and click down items in the overview and click each one and get a scan result without hit the dscan refresh key every time.
The BIG problem with this is that now lets say you're sitting in a FW complex with dscan set to 360 deg and 1au. This for anyone who doesn't FW is how you watch your gate on the outside to see if anyone is coming in after you. Previously you would just sit there and spam the dscan refresh key to keep your dscan updated to see what's outside. With the Dscan refresh key being taken over by this new tracking camera function you can't do that any more. It just keeps toggling the tracking cam dscan on and off. VERY not good.
1. Seperate this new function from the dscan refresh function. We NEED a plain jane vanilla Dscan refresh function. This is not optional. Sorry to seem demanding but taking away something as basic as a dscan refresh shortcut is just silly. There's literally zero reason to map it to the same key as the old dscan refresh.
2. The (I'm calling it autoscan scan) toggle might be nice for some ppl but I think it would be a much better idea to make it so that it functions as a "hold" key. So that instead of pressing the key once and then being able to go down the overview list getting dscan results you have to hold that key (which better not be the same as the dscan refresh key btw) and then it will automatically refresh dscan for each item selected. The biggest reason for this is that once pressed you lose the ability to manually rotate the camera. It was quite a shock to me when I pressed the dscan key and dscanned a few things then tried to rotate the view and nothing would pop up but a marquee box. There was a moment of panic there that the camera was completely broken before I figured out to hit the dscan key again to toggle it off and reenable the camera controls. If left as is it's gonna result in ship reimbursement tickets from people pressing that key during or right before a fight, then panicking because they cant get their camera to function and ending up dead..
Bolded for importance. Thats a VERY bad effect.
Daemun of Khanid
|
RuriHoshino
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
16
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:23:53 -
[488] - Quote
Morwen Lagann wrote:I've said it before (likely in this thread) and I'll say it again.
If you're working on the UI in EVE, look, we get it. You want it to look pretty like the rest of the game. That's cool.
But you're doing so at the expense of core functionality, every. Goddamn. Time.
The beta starmap. Still missing core functionality from the original map.
Beta camera. Still missing core functionality from the original camera.
This new d-scan animation? Outright removes core functionality from the tool.
Function over form. Function over form. Function over form. Repeat it until it sinks in, or this cycle of UI tweaks followed by supernovas of player rage will not end.
Not empty quoting. Stop trying to fix things that were perfectly functional. |
Ashterothi
Aideron Robotics
362
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:24:16 -
[489] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Manic Velocity wrote:CCP Turtlepower wrote: the results are populated instantly in the D-scan window. This is so obviously not the case. The very first thing I noticed is the delayed, line-by-line output of the scan results. Sorry about that, I should have worded that differently. I meant that the list BEGINS to populate instantly. This is quicker than in the old camera because you don't have to wait for the camera to move first before it populates. CCP Turtlepower
This statement assumes I am not already pointed at a target. I spend a lot of time "watching" a location with D-scan. What this does is add additional confusion to those d-scans.
I get the desire to nerf dscan, but I just don't think this is a very elegant solution.
Listen to Hydrostatic Podcast for all your Empyrean needs!
|
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
428
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:27:19 -
[490] - Quote
Kazi Kugisa wrote:Scotsman Howard wrote:For those of us at work and have not had time to test this yet, can someone please give me a basic idea of how a couple of these things are working right now?
toggle tracking camera" - Does this mean you can turn it on or off like the old camera's "focus on selected item" option (or whatever it was actually called)? It sounds like the center of the focus is off from some of the other comments, but it is at least a start. Does this toggle last session to session, system to system, etc.? or does it need to be re-toggled every time?
D-scan hotkey (V + Click) - How exactly is this different other than adding a click? Did they not add a d-scan hotkey option a while ago that does not involve a click?
Thanks for the help understanding what is happening. On the D-scan, you have to keep the V key held down while clicking the object at the same time. If it was press V and then click, I would be cool with it. I could map it to a mousebutton, like I do with the D-Scan hotkey. I can't map a continuous press. So now my only typing hand is tied to the V key the entire time I try to go through a list of celestials.
I don't know if this was something they changed since the initial patch this morning but it is now how things are working for me. If I press "V" (K for my remap) it toggles the auto dscan to on and then I can click as many things on overview as I want and get a fresh dscan for each. I know this is something you said would be good but it is not. See my previous post for reasons why.
Daemun of Khanid
|
|
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1969
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:32:12 -
[491] - Quote
Also, as an aside, this change was communicated in a uniquely ****-poor fashion.
It almost seems a deliberate omission.
CCP Turtlepower wrote:- Added tracking camera toggle (enable with Shift + C) to the Orbit mode - Added a new way to D-Scan: hold V and click (V can be changed to other keys via the settings menu).
How do you fail to mention that, oh, by the way, "We've made D-Scan results populate line by line, and it's so slow that the scan refresh will complete before a large list fully populates." That's a pretty glaring omission.
It also wasn't mentioned in the previous post about the Hold-V addition being made on SiSi.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
|
Onamata Poeia
University of Caille Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:39:56 -
[492] - Quote
Tippia wrote:
The following stuff still needs to be fixed:
GÇó Tracking camera does not track GÇö it GÇ£looksGÇ¥. By this I mean that the tracking camera puts the target in focus, rather than show your ship and the target in relation to that ship. It behaves as a very clumsy and pointless way to do what you used to do with the old GÇ£look -> set as parent -> set as targetGÇ¥ advanced camera combo. No-one particularly used that because it had no real gameplay use (it made for good video fodder, but that's something unrelated and largely irrelevant that doesn't need its own camera mode).
The tracking camera needs to work like the old tracking camera: your ship in the middle (or at an adjustable offset); the target kept on-screen at an adjustable position; no camera tricks (no FoV or zoom or anything) other than rotating to ensure that both positions are on-screen and as close to their set-up points as possible. Otherwise, it becomes somewhere between pointless or just outright unintuitive for anything related to navigation, scanning, or actuallyGǪ you knowGǪ tracking a target.
GÇó Look camera does not look GÇö it follows/does a fly-by Looking at a target should do only exactly that: it puts the target at the centre of the screen; everything else works as normal in relation to this new focus object. No automated camera movement; no automated adjustments; nothing except what the user does to the camera (manually adjusting slew, zoom, FoV etc). At the moment, you constantly have to fight the camera's automation to be able to analyse details of the target object, which means it is largely pointless forGǪ you knowGǪ looking at a target.
If you want to have a camera mode that offers all kinds of cinematic automation, then go ahead and do so, but keep it far far far away from the regular orbit camera that is used to actually play the game.
Quoting for truth. Emphasis mine. Sad part is that post is that is so much simple common sense that it's slightly worrying that it's been implemented ion any other way.
In essence: Stop trying to predict how we want the camera to behave and make it behave like we tell it to. Cut the cinematic bs, or just make an alternative 'Cinema/Studio' mode where you can play around with the bobbing and flybys for your youtube videos till your heart is content without detracting from such a critical element of the core gameplay. |
|
CCP Turtlepower
C C P C C P Alliance
278
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:44:45 -
[493] - Quote
The D-Scan results list fade in animation will be removed completely later this week; We added this too hastily without considering all use cases. I apologize for the problems this has caused, thanks for all the feedback that has helped us to resolve this.
We also hope to squeeze in a few more bug fixes, particularly for some lingering zoom issues.
o7 CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters |
|
Manic Velocity
The Corp I Just Left
165
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:49:56 -
[494] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:The D-Scan results list fade in animation will be removed completely later this week; We added this too hastily without considering all use cases. I apologize for the problems this has caused, thanks for all the feedback that has helped us to resolve this.
We also hope to squeeze in a few more bug fixes, particularly for some lingering zoom issues.
o7 CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
Thank you.
@manicvelocity
|
JonnyPew
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
18
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:51:39 -
[495] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:The D-Scan results list fade in animation will be removed completely later this week; We added this too hastily without considering all use cases. I apologize for the problems this has caused, thanks for all the feedback that has helped us to resolve this.
We also hope to squeeze in a few more bug fixes, particularly for some lingering zoom issues.
o7 CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters Muchas gracias
EVE Online is my hobby
http://www.youtube.com/JonnyPew
|
Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1820
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:53:58 -
[496] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:The D-Scan results list fade in animation will be removed completely later this week; We added this too hastily without considering all use cases. I apologize for the problems this has caused, thanks for all the feedback that has helped us to resolve this.
We also hope to squeeze in a few more bug fixes, particularly for some lingering zoom issues.
o7 CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
<3
Now then, about this removing the old camera and not being able to right click and look around business? |
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
436
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:55:26 -
[497] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:The D-Scan results list fade in animation will be removed completely later this week; We added this too hastily without considering all use cases. I apologize for the problems this has caused, thanks for all the feedback that has helped us to resolve this.
We also hope to squeeze in a few more bug fixes, particularly for some lingering zoom issues.
o7 CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
Thank you for that Turtlepower, Pls also see my previous couple of posts. There are some big functionality issue's with the way these dscan and tracking camera functions are being implemented.
Daemun of Khanid
|
Chris Diaboli
The Knowledge. Nexus Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 17:04:21 -
[498] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:The D-Scan results list fade in animation will be removed completely later this week;
Later? How about now? The Old D-Scan was also fixed on the fly. It's quite impossible to play with this 'feature' in a wormhole. |
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
437
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 17:13:33 -
[499] - Quote
OK, in regards to my last posts about the V key toggling on and having to be turned off.
I was wrong kinda... if I press the V key on the keyboard it has to be held down BUT if I press the key on my Logitech G13 that is programmed to the V key it toggles and has to be turned back off.
I don't know why it does this but can only assume it has something to do with the way the G13 handles press and release timing. So I'm going to write that issue off as a hardware compatibility issue.
That being said I have less issue with the way the new dscan/tracking function over writing the original dscan refresh function.
Daemun of Khanid
|
Kodaw Kuori
Eternal Beings I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 17:23:22 -
[500] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:The D-Scan results list fade in animation will be removed completely later this week; We added this too hastily without considering all use cases. I apologize for the problems this has caused, thanks for all the feedback that has helped us to resolve this.
We also hope to squeeze in a few more bug fixes, particularly for some lingering zoom issues.
o7 CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
Yay! |
|
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
439
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 17:33:19 -
[501] - Quote
All my previous issue's with the Dscan refresh shortcut have been corrected/redacted. All that's left is the option to remove the camera offset when using tracking camera and I'm a (reasonably) happy camper.
o7
Daemun of Khanid
|
Johnathan Severasse
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society Psychotic Tendencies.
91
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 17:34:22 -
[502] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:The D-Scan results list fade in animation will be removed completely later this week; We added this too hastily without considering all use cases. I apologize for the problems this has caused, thanks for all the feedback that has helped us to resolve this.
We also hope to squeeze in a few more bug fixes, particularly for some lingering zoom issues.
o7 CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
Thanks guys! We appreciate it! |
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
896
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 17:36:42 -
[503] - Quote
Morwen Lagann wrote:I've said it before (likely in this thread) and I'll say it again.
If you're working on the UI in EVE, look, we get it. You want it to look pretty like the rest of the game. That's cool.
But you're doing so at the expense of core functionality, every. Goddamn. Time.
The beta starmap. Still missing core functionality from the original map.
Beta camera. Still missing core functionality from the original camera.
This new d-scan animation? Outright removes core functionality from the tool.
Function over form. Function over form. Function over form. Repeat it until it sinks in, or this cycle of UI tweaks followed by supernovas of player rage will not end.
What a good post!
Do not remove the old camera.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM XI
|
Kaivaja
State War Academy Caldari State
37
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 17:41:38 -
[504] - Quote
Good fixes in the 2nd patch today, but also one regression: when you go through a gate or wormhole, the previous camera zoom level is not remembered. Instead the camera zooms very close to your ship. I wonder if you could fix it to remember the previous zoom level, just like it did before? |
nikar galvren
Hedion University Amarr Empire
58
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 17:43:13 -
[505] - Quote
Tippia wrote:GÇó GǪindeed, make all camera settings persistent. Such as the position and zoom of the camera between mode changes and docking events; tactical overview settings for the respective modes; indeed any manual adjustment the player can make should be the way they left it when they come back to that view mode.
Oh, Dear God. Yes. So. Much. Yes. |
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
439
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 17:45:00 -
[506] - Quote
Getting a double key press effect with the dscan key. The list populates once when pressed then flickers and refreshes again as if I pressed the key twice. Does this on a regular keyboard key press so it's not just my game pad this time. :) It's a distraction more than a functional issue but I presume that if it is indeed sending a query to the server twice each time that it's gonna cause a small degree of unnecessary server load increase.
Daemun of Khanid
|
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
134
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 17:57:29 -
[507] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:The D-Scan results list fade in animation will be removed completely later this week; We added this too hastily without considering all use cases. I apologize for the problems this has caused, thanks for all the feedback that has helped us to resolve this.
We also hope to squeeze in a few more bug fixes, particularly for some lingering zoom issues.
o7 CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
Thanks TurtlePower
Can you please get someone to have a look at the tab function window behaviour while the UI tweaks are going on?
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=464454
Please??
@dominousnolen
|
MRxX7XxMONKEY
Sleepless Enterprises
11
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 18:17:29 -
[508] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:The D-Scan results list fade in animation will be removed completely later this week; We added this too hastily without considering all use cases. I apologize for the problems this has caused, thanks for all the feedback that has helped us to resolve this.
We also hope to squeeze in a few more bug fixes, particularly for some lingering zoom issues.
o7 CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
damn, I was quite enjoying this effect today while WH hunting. oh well, maybe one day in the future |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
3573
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 18:52:48 -
[509] - Quote
The new tracking camera mode is a step in the right direction. Thank you for that.
Now if you could just RESTORE the ability to have the camera always keep my ship in the center of the screen, it would be the perfectly adequate system we had before someone decided we needed shiny fluffy glittery stuff to replace it.
Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
|
Terraj Oknatis
xX-Crusader-Xx Tactical Narcotics Team
33
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 19:02:24 -
[510] - Quote
For the love of god please make a slider for zoom speed. It is far too fast.
Stop lerping all the things. It causes lag. I'm talking to you D-scan
When I click on the scanner radial menu, If I let go of the button with the cursor still in the center it should just disappear
Loosen up the friction on the camera position. It is far too tight. better yet this is why God invented sliders
In all your CCP DEV wisdom sit down for the next 3 hours and play with the camera until it feels PRECISELY like the old camera and make that the default... Then make sliders for ALL THE THINGS! at this point you will stop getting shouted at by the entire community.
Oh yeah right click pan zoom. Where is it... I want it back. Bring it back..
TRACKING CAMERA UNDER ORBIT CAMERA IN RADIAL MENU PLEASEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#disappointedface
I'm half way through raging at the moment.... |
|
Trajan Unknown
Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops
93
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 19:07:30 -
[511] - Quote
If they actually ask for feedback before the change things that drastically it would safe them so much time. The drifting off camera was sold as a "feature" regarding to the dev blog. Same with the chase mode that doesn-¦t seem to work all that good. So someone spent some time to code something that should go right to the bin. Again, there is a golden rule in coding that too many programmers simply ignore for one or another reason. "Perfection is reached once you can-¦t remove anything anymore without losing functionality." If you add something new, make sure it is simple, functional and not too far off from what people are used to. There is no need to invent the wheel again but simply keep it rolling with less friction. Once you achieved that you can start make it look fancy if you want but don-¦t overdo it or maybe no one is realising what it is anymore. :)
|
Tessa McKnight
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 19:23:04 -
[512] - Quote
Kaivaja wrote:Good fixes in the 2nd patch today, but also one regression: when you go through a gate or wormhole, the previous camera zoom level is not remembered. Instead the camera zooms very close to your ship. I wonder if you could fix it to remember the previous zoom level, just like it did before?
This is happening to me too, it's seriously annoying. Cmon CCP. |
Isil Rahsen
Black Phoenyx
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 19:23:43 -
[513] - Quote
Tracking toggle is a welcome fix, however the big issues with the tracking camera remain.
- Tracking needs to focus on your ship and keep the tracked target inline, not offset my ship to the left by a huge amount at any close zoom level (literally makes my ship disappear unless zoomed massively out) - Tracking camera needs a custom tracking posistion instead of hard locked to the right like it is now. - Using any camera offset to the left will make your ship disappear during tracking at any zoom level because of the previous two issues |
ValentinaDLM
Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute
883
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 19:38:33 -
[514] - Quote
New "features" that make the game incredibly hard to play and give motion sickness while taking features that we have used for years for what purpose? To make gameplay more cinematic looking?
It is times like this that I wonder if CCP even plays the same game we do, almost all recent changes have been positive ones except the ones that relate to the UI, the new map, and new camera seem to be far more designed to look pretty than actually enable gameplay.
At the very least let us keep the functional Camera we have been using for years if we want to, rather than trying to ram this change down our throats. |
Lord Haur
Star Frontiers Brotherhood of Spacers
112
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 19:52:23 -
[515] - Quote
Adding to all the other concerns:
RE: the right-click look around that has been removed with the new camera: firstly, this is a horrendous "design choice" and it should be re-implemented. It's a huge loss of functionality. However, what makes it worse is that this functionality remains in the hangar view. Nothing jars like a loss of functionality, except when that same functionality is possible in certain situations and not others.
Also, while we're on the right-click look function, can we have the related zoom function back (right click and hold, move mouse, hold both mouse buttons and move to zoom)? It offers a higher degree of zoom than the new camera, which if you insist on making killmarks tiny really helps to identify them. |
Zappity
Black Aces I N F A M O U S
2693
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 20:18:55 -
[516] - Quote
Fast camera track and fast zoom is great. If you are going to change these in response to feedback please add a slider. I really like the new speeds.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
|
Silverbackyererse
The Church of Awesome
196
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 20:24:24 -
[517] - Quote
If you have to put new features into the game, please make sure they provide an improvement on the old ones CCP.
The new map looks cool and funky but still doesn't provide the functionality of the old one. Probing is still terrible months and months later.
The new camera is in exactly the same situation - looks great but plays terribly.
Sluggish, dysfunctional, unintuitive.Frankly it's a terrible piece of design and is game breaking for me. Might be great for using the upcoming new capital features and looking at Citadels but it's disgustingly useless for the rest of the game currently.
From the moving of the D-Scan button from one side to the other to the shoddy camera angles, to the nauseating movement to the lack responsive movement to the new delayed D-Scan. Every stage has been lacking and still is.
Breaking the old camera whilst trying to 'fix' the new one post DT last night left me feeling that it was an intentional ploy to force me to use the new one. I rage quit the game for the first time ever .
Like many others, I don't like having substandard features forced down my throat but I can deal with it if I can see that the final product will be worthwhile.
The camera appears to be heading down the same road as the map and I'm told I've got no options but to use it. Really??
Nice work guys!
Yes I'm mad, no you can't have my stuff.
|
Maccian
Soul Takers
39
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 20:39:20 -
[518] - Quote
Remove it ASAP that fade animation is, in one word; horrible.
|
Raamah
Eschelon Directive
3
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 20:46:22 -
[519] - Quote
1. Why is it called the orbit camera when it doesn't seem to orbit?
2. PLEASE put in an auto-tracking of selected item. It's all I want the camera to do. |
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
326
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 21:47:19 -
[520] - Quote
Well, looks like I'm being bumped out. Not a rage quit, more like a sad/sick quit. Oh well. It's been a fun ride. Keeping 2 ships per character and a small pile of missiles in the hopes that the nausea-cam isn't the only cam by the time all the chips fall. Ain't holding my breath though. Such is life.
And no, you can not has my stuff either. I has plans for my stuff. Mwahahahahahaha!
GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½
|
|
Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute
434
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 22:25:19 -
[521] - Quote
I restarted my client and launcher but I'm still getting the horrible marquee select when I hit refresh DScan. Adding a hotkey for refreshing DScan was one of the most amazing quality-of-life improvements and now it's all screwed up.
All I want is to hit Dscan, and refresh the dscan window. I don't want that button to do anything else. Now I'm habitually hitting that key and it's screwing up my piloting so I have to remove the hotkey until it's not all stupid and useless again. |
Jalon Kaladreel
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
9
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 23:52:37 -
[522] - Quote
A wise man once said: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
You broke it. |
Alianovna Romanova
Federation Patriots Society of New Eden
2
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 23:52:39 -
[523] - Quote
The autotracking is an improvement, but there's still a ways to go: 1. We need the custom and centered tracking positions--the new camera is not placing the ship in the right position at all when tracking is on. 2. Do not track to objects on ctrl-click (target lock). Prelocking the next few targets doesn't mean we want to track them (yet). 3. Maintain zoom amount through session changes (like jump gates).
Like I said--it's better, but I still have to turn it off to actually play the game.
|
Gorion Wassenar
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
146
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 23:56:43 -
[524] - Quote
Did you guys move the boot.ini guy to the art team? This is terrible.
Rote Kapelle - NOW IN SLIGHTLY MORE LAW ABIDING FLAVOR!
"DRINK STARSI!" -¬-«GäóOwnership Group Chairman
|
Proxay
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
31
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 00:56:14 -
[525] - Quote
Hi CCP,
Just here to say that the New Camera and New Dscan Effects are terrible.
10 years I've been at this game. I don't often post on forums to say "you're making things worse", but you really are guys. Roll this stuff back, implement cool things where time and responsiveness aren't the two most critical components of those modules function.
Cheers.
Loading signature...
|
Harold Tuphlos
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
81
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 01:12:25 -
[526] - Quote
I'm unable to think of a single use case where a delayed dscan is not factually worse than one that is instant. Wormholes relies on it being instant to not die, and if you actually need it in k-space by the time you get the intel it is already out of date. |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33368
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 01:33:15 -
[527] - Quote
The camera reset on warp is jarring, and being unable to pan during warp is just plain boring. Makes warp dead time.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
|
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF Bad Intention
11
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 02:08:40 -
[528] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:The camera reset on warp is jarring, and being unable to pan during warp is just plain boring. Makes warp dead time. In what way can't you pan while warping? |
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
136
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 02:45:05 -
[529] - Quote
Issues as of 2016-16-02
- Still noticing a fair amount of camera bob when tracking an item in orbit mode
- Camera snap when deselecting an item is pretty sharp and a bit disorientating and ship will be moved off center of screen when snapping to items, also occurs just clicking into random space
- In Orbit mode the camera still leads the ship when warping, ship will go complete off screen if zoomed in at a close range
- Zoom level is not maintaining after gate jumps. Some times resets to max zoom in on the ship while looking at an item
- When camera speed is set to slower then default the camera when panning and zoom has a tendency to overshoot the mouse movement keep going until it decides its time to stop
Feature requests:
- Custom position for orbit Camera much like the old camera.
I'll try and cut footage together of issues i'm seeing while I'm out roaming.
@dominousnolen
|
RuleoftheBone
Stellar Conundrum
28
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 03:27:05 -
[530] - Quote
Proxay wrote:Hi CCP,
Just here to say that the New Camera and New Dscan Effects are terrible.
10 years I've been at this game. I don't often post on forums to say "you're making things worse", but you really are guys. Roll this stuff back, implement cool things where time and responsiveness aren't the two most critical components of those modules function.
Cheers.
Seconded.
Thats a combined 20 years in-game experience and knowing Proxay by reputation he knows what he is on about.
In this case function far exceeds any supposed improvements in form.
While I hate real-world analogies in a space pixel game you should note that actual radar/sonar displays are generally quite clean interfaces with rather basic symbols and very sharp clear lines. This is so the operator (i.e. us EvE pilots) can quickly and intuitively interpret the data collected on each sweep.
Key words being quickly and intuitively.
As devs you guys KNOW that the percentage of folks capable of rapidly and accurately scanning/pinning targets in space is rather small. Even the largest alliances/corps in game have perhaps 2-3 pro scouts out of hundreds or thousands of pilots.
It is an art form....and an artist is only as good as the tools provided. These new tools make shiny pictures with no depth.
The best option would be....as suggested by others.....slip the date....get the new base camera/scanner/map working exactly as the current one works....THEN start adding the pretty gee whiz stuff with sliders or tick boxes to shut them off for those that prefer to work without eye candy.
Measure twice cut once. My lifetime engineering adage. It actually works.
Thanks
Bone
|
|
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33369
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 04:09:57 -
[531] - Quote
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:Rain6637 wrote:The camera reset on warp is jarring, and being unable to pan during warp is just plain boring. Makes warp dead time. In what way can't you pan while warping? The functionality of Tactical Camera (Alt+1)
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
|
Omni Fear
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 04:57:09 -
[532] - Quote
Please make dscan return results instantly as it did before!
In other words, rabble, rabble, rabble, rabble! |
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
136
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 05:13:20 -
[533] - Quote
Omni Fear wrote:Please make dscan return results instantly as it did before!
In other words, rabble, rabble, rabble, rabble!
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6346104#post6346104
@dominousnolen
|
Gregor Kur
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 05:32:27 -
[534] - Quote
I think I like all the changes and additions, but the one thing you removed is a show-stopper for me. It seems very tedious and unnatural to have to hit C every time I select a new target to track that target. Ultimately I end up looking in some random direction and it really takes away from the experience. I know, I know, I'm really just looking at the overview window most of the time, but sometimes it's neat to see what you are shooting at.
I really really tried for 3 days on 2 toons, but now I've gone back to the old camera. I can't see using the new camera until you add this feature back in. |
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF Bad Intention
12
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 05:39:29 -
[535] - Quote
Gregor Kur wrote:I think I like all the changes and additions, but the one thing you removed is a show-stopper for me. It seems very tedious and unnatural to have to hit C every time I select a new target to track that target. Ultimately I end up looking in some random direction and it really takes away from the experience. I know, I know, I'm really just looking at the overview window most of the time, but sometimes it's neat to see what you are shooting at.
I really really tried for 3 days on 2 toons, but now I've gone back to the old camera. I can't see using the new camera until you add this feature back in. They already did. It's shift+C by default and can be remapped back to C. Be warned however that remapping that breaks the keybind for the old camera. |
Shade Millith
Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. I N F A M O U S
175
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 05:40:06 -
[536] - Quote
Cross post from one of the other threads (Because this is the first time in a long time that a change in EVE has made me consider leaving)
You still have half the movement speed on the vertical axis for camera movement. And it is still bad.
People that just use the camera to look at pretty things are going to be perfectly happy with it and won't even notice, but using it as a tool for D-Scanning and PVP just shows how horrible it is. And I've tried to get used to it.
A game with full 3 degrees of movement where the enemy is just as often above/below you, and uses a mouse for control, should NEVER have differing movement speeds on the axes. It makes the horizontal movement feel too fast, and the vertical movement feel too slow.
Stop taking tools and neutering them in the name of making it pretty and flashy.
(I'm going to keep complaining and posting about this until something is done or I've heard something from a Dev on the matter. I'm actually scared that you're going to leave this in, because this would be a final straw that would make me seriously reconsider my subscriptions after 10 years playing this game) |
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
136
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 05:46:13 -
[537] - Quote
Gregor Kur wrote:I think I like all the changes and additions, but the one thing you removed is a show-stopper for me. It seems very tedious and unnatural to have to hit C every time I select a new target to track that target. Ultimately I end up looking in some random direction and it really takes away from the experience. I know, I know, I'm really just looking at the overview window most of the time, but sometimes it's neat to see what you are shooting at.
I really really tried for 3 days on 2 toons, but now I've gone back to the old camera. I can't see using the new camera until you add this feature back in.
Toggle was added back today (Shift+C)
Tested during a roam, works as the old camera. Just have the inertia issues and the others i posted above that are making me still not really feel comfortable flying in this new camera.
@dominousnolen
|
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
362
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 07:07:31 -
[538] - Quote
Team Psycho Sisters. Sorry to be harsh but..
Can you guys please go on a holiday or something. Each patch you add more UI. Or maybe work on some stuff that your users can customize.. Maybe some of us don't wont or use many of your UI elements.. maybe come up with a system so we can turn some of it off.. A toggle system and user customizable colors/transparency for every UI element would be very welcome among the user base.
I'm getting tired of my entire screen getting filled up with UI. Id like to be able to see the space and ships I'm flying / shooting at.
Recent UI Stuff Added that wasn't needed or asked for.
- Ship/Overview Icons - They are bigger and more obtrusive than before and cover all the pretty ships. - New Camera - Orbit, strategic and first person now have there own buttons on the screen.. - New Camera - Extra button in the selected item window. So now it needs to be giant for the buttons to same size. - New Camera - Extra button on radial menu makes bookmarking more tiresome.
Ask yourself what do my users want.
They want customization. Eve is too complicated to not have UI customization. If you add something you please one group but annoy another. eg new camera I bet movie makers love it... scouts and pvpers dont love it.
They want functionality before aesthetics. Aesthetics are great but don't remove functionality to achieve it.
"... ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new... thats where is eve placed... not in cave..."-á | zoonr-Korsairs |-á QFT !
|
Leonardo Adami
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
135
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 08:02:50 -
[539] - Quote
So post patch; tracking camera is good thank you for putting this back in. I have my DSCAN button bound to my middle mouse button. When I click my middle mouse button i get a message that says DSCAN and I'm unable to move my camera at all. I have to press C after which I'm able to move my camera again. Please fix. |
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
137
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 08:09:21 -
[540] - Quote
Leonardo Adami wrote:So post patch; tracking camera is good thank you for putting this back in. I have my DSCAN button bound to my middle mouse button. When I click my middle mouse button i get a message that says DSCAN and I'm unable to move my camera at all. I have to press C after which I'm able to move my camera again. Please fix.
I'd suggest logging a bug report in game, providing screen caps and providing the EBR here.
@dominousnolen
|
|
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
137
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 08:26:24 -
[541] - Quote
Video example uploading now (should be uploaded/processed in the next 30 minutes)
Issues included
- Zoom level of ship not persistent after gate jumping
- Wandering camera during items selection with the tracking camera
- Grid persistance around the 4:15 Mark
- Warp Flash (EBR has already been opened months ago for this one) around 4:11 mark
Edit - Rendering due to issues.
Link to be provided later.
@dominousnolen
|
Rek Seven
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
2152
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 11:02:15 -
[542] - Quote
The camera option still need a lot of work and i hope we see constant changes until things are perfect. Currently the firs person camera is a waste of time but it does have potential. We need to be able to drag the camera around for a start.
When are we going to get the picture-in-picture camera we saw at one fanfest (or was that just another broken promise)?
The wishlist is pretty much complete...
|
Catherda
Universal Industries Inc.
5
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 11:57:12 -
[543] - Quote
Ned Thomas wrote:CCP Turtlepower wrote:The D-Scan results list fade in animation will be removed completely later this week; We added this too hastily without considering all use cases. I apologize for the problems this has caused, thanks for all the feedback that has helped us to resolve this.
We also hope to squeeze in a few more bug fixes, particularly for some lingering zoom issues.
o7 CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters <3 Now then, about this removing the old camera and not being able to right click and look around business?
Agreed - would be nice to have some feedback on the unnecessary removal of the right-click and pan/zoom feature, CCP Turtlepower... |
Elmis
The ill-advised Hermit Collective
8
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 13:26:19 -
[544] - Quote
Excuse the poor video editing - it is not something I normally do.
I wanted to show the drastic difference between the old and new camera tracking.
The first clip is using the old camera, turning on tracking, and selecting objects on the overview. It is clean and clear movement.
https://youtu.be/WMG9tTd_Ej0
The second clip is using the new camera, [Shift] [C] to turn on tracking, and then selecting objects on the overview. The objects are not on the same horizon as in the first example, and I am zoomed in closer, which exaggerates the differences. That aside, I find it jarring and odd, with occasional stutters and seemingly different offsets on your ship.
https://youtu.be/CcqLxTa27QI
The third clip is an example of a bug. I am using the new camera tracking while viewing one of the citadel construction sites, not my ship. About mid way through the camera aligns to an object above and gets caught in a spinning loop until I select a new object. This has happened on occasion when viewing from my own ship, but I was never able to replicate it. The bug worked a number of times while looking at the new citadel so I grabbed a video. It is occasional bugs like that - plus the jumpy / stuttering / inconsistency in movement and offset etc which leave the new camera just feeling wrong to me.
https://youtu.be/mnsIjXpidLw |
Onamata Poeia
University of Caille Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 14:30:11 -
[545] - Quote
Just logged into the new mirror of SiSi and for some reason I cannot fathom, the orbit camera is now in a constant state of slowly zooming in toward the ship. Is this as intended or a bug Are you even listening, CCP? This sort of thing is basically the POLAR OPPOSITE of what 90%+ of the feedback posts I've read have been asking for.
In the look at camera, we have to fight with these stupid flyby settings to get to see what we want to see. Now in the orbit camera we have to fight with the zoom, just to get the camera to stay in the same place so that we can have an idea of what's going on with our own ships. It actually is starting to beggar belief that someone thinks this is a good idea.
I'm sorry if this is coming off more as a rant than feedback, but I'm starting to get really pi**ed off at this BS. At the end of the day I'm trying to operate a viewpoint such that I can divine information about my surroundings, not record a youtube montage! Give me function first and foremost (what is so difficult to understand about my wanting a static viewpoint anchored around whatever I am looking at, be it my ship or another object anyway?). |
Trajan Unknown
Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops
99
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 14:52:02 -
[546] - Quote
Onamata Poeia wrote:Just logged into the new mirror of SiSi and for some reason I cannot fathom, the orbit camera is now in a constant state of slowly zooming in toward the ship. Is this as intended or a bug Are you even listening, CCP? This sort of thing is basically the POLAR OPPOSITE of what 90%+ of the feedback posts I've read have been asking for.
In the look at camera, we have to fight with these stupid flyby settings to get to see what we want to see. Now in the orbit camera we have to fight with the zoom, just to get the camera to stay in the same place so that we can have an idea of what's going on with our own ships. It actually is starting to beggar belief that someone thinks this is a good idea.
I'm sorry if this is coming off more as a rant than feedback, but I'm starting to get really pi**ed off at this BS. At the end of the day I'm trying to operate a viewpoint such that I can divine information about my surroundings, not record a youtube montage! Give me function first and foremost (what is so difficult to understand about my wanting a static viewpoint anchored around whatever I am looking at, be it my ship or another object anyway?).
They sold us some of this "tracking stuff" as a new feature for some weird reason. Hopefully they will remove it or make it an option because else I am limited to station trading in EvE and that-¦s something I won-¦t do. Another thing that this sisters team hopefully understood by now is, that "look at" and "tracking" are not the same thing. Make "look at" an option that you can toggle is nice but we asked for "tracking" which they removed completely. With the old camera I can track an object, zoom and keep tracking it. The new camera doesn-¦t allow tracking but just "look at" and when I zoom everything is getting screwed. Was hoping to see some response by today but it seems they are not willing to respond. Hopefully that means they are actually working on changes the playerbase requested and not trying to add more fancy stuff.
|
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33376
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 17:19:24 -
[547] - Quote
Tengu
Role Bonus: has the old camera
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
|
Raamah
Eschelon Directive
3
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 19:07:44 -
[548] - Quote
I like the addition of tracking for the non-orbiting "orbit" camera, but it is objectively worse than the current tracking camera. I want to be able to choose tracking position, for one thing. For another, I don't want my ship constantly hovering on the left edge of the screen. I keep my d scan there! |
Aivlis Eldelbar
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Curatores Veritatis Alliance
157
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 20:00:13 -
[549] - Quote
I have my D-Scan bound to a mouse button, and when I hit it it goes into a "Click on target" mode. I really don't want it to do this as I just need a refresh of the scan list, and while it's in this mode I can't interact with my UI. Any tips?
|
Mag's
Azn Empire
21314
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 20:08:08 -
[550] - Quote
nikar galvren wrote:Tippia wrote:GÇó GǪindeed, make all camera settings persistent. Such as the position and zoom of the camera between mode changes and docking events; tactical overview settings for the respective modes; indeed any manual adjustment the player can make should be the way they left it when they come back to that view mode.
Oh, Dear God. Yes. So. Much. Yes. Indeed.
Please CCP for the love of god, make sure this new camera works like the old BEFORE you make it the only option available.
It's not rocket science.
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
|
|
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
450
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 20:24:25 -
[551] - Quote
Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:I have my D-Scan bound to a mouse button, and when I hit it it goes into a "Click on target" mode. I really don't want it to do this as I just need a refresh of the scan list, and while it's in this mode I can't interact with my UI. Any tips?
Had a similar issue w the key programmed to my g13. Has to do with how the client recieves the key signal. Make sure its not set to repeat the command when held. Depending on how programmable your device is you might try inserting small delays between press and release.
Daemun of Khanid
|
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
311
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 20:31:49 -
[552] - Quote
When you are looking straight up / straight down in the new camera and have the camera bobbing on the view just spins which is really disorientating. Fine I can just turn off the camera bobbing, just like I've turned off everything else in the new camera. But could you maybe just turn off this bonkers idea of removing the old camera before making the new one pleasant to use? |
Aivlis Eldelbar
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Curatores Veritatis Alliance
157
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 21:44:41 -
[553] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:I have my D-Scan bound to a mouse button, and when I hit it it goes into a "Click on target" mode. I really don't want it to do this as I just need a refresh of the scan list, and while it's in this mode I can't interact with my UI. Any tips?
Had a similar issue w the key programmed to my g13. Has to do with how the client recieves the key signal. Make sure its not set to repeat the command when held. Depending on how programmable your device is you might try inserting small delays between press and release.
It's not programmed (as in, it's not a macro keyed to a button press), and it worked fine before the camera came out of beta. I'll see if actually making it into a macro of [Keypress + 0.1 sec delay] will do anything. |
Fzhal
Tessaract Industries
36
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 21:48:44 -
[554] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:Fzhal wrote:The thing that I'm most unhappy about is the lack of capability (or maybe I just couldn't find it) to control the camera friction so that the camera didn't keep spinning after I moved it and kept holding the mouse button down in one spot so that it didn't keep spinning. Moving the "Camera Speed" slider toward "Fast" reduces the inertia of the camera. Note that the old camera continues to rotate after you stop moving it as well. It's not 100% damped. You can, with that setting, damp the camera rotation a whole lot more than the old camera's default, so play with it to see where you like it. I'm not on the team working on the camera, so I won't be able to answer questions about their plans for it. Just trying to help direct you to the setting that does what you want. Thank you CCP Darwin.
CCP Team Psycho Sisters:
I have tried to do as CCP Darwin recommended, but found the feature frustratingly inadequate because I use a high mouse sensitivity setting. I have had these mouse settings for years, and I'm very adept with them. To get the desired inertial friction (at or near zero), your multiplicative camera speed setting must be set at 3.6 or above. I also noticed that your camera must have a built-in acceleration curve, which makes things even more difficult for people in my situation.
- Your camera code seems to have a built-in acceleration curve (or resting inertia) to keep things looking smooth. I assume you do this so that someone on the 4x setting could use the camera without it being way too sensitive. The problem is that this feature doesn't help me because I too have an acceleration curve to manage the high speed of my mouse. Once my acceleration curve kicks in, I've already exceeded your curve's max rate, which results in the camera/mouse speed movement speed jumping from around 800 DPI to four times that speed.
- My mouse speed is 2,000 DPI (pixels per inch), which means my mouse can cross a 1920 width screen with one inch (2.5cm) of lateral movement. Let's say I want to rotate my view 180 degrees quickly (180d = 500 pixels = 1.25cm mouse move in 0.5 seconds)... Your camera code generates inertia based on mouse speed. If I have camera speed set at 3, and manage the herculean task of releasing the click at the right moment, the camera rotates about an extra 90 degrees. When I set the camera speed to 4 and try to rotate my view 180 degrees, the camera multiplier (4) x (500) pixel distance means that my mouse would equivalently have traveled to the same spot on an adjoining monitor. Sure the camera stops immediately after the button is released, but it is back to facing the same (wrong) direction after 2 revolutions, and it has also managed to achieve 240 RPMs!
FYI: To serious gamers, mouse settings are a sacred thing. Before doing so, I'd recommend trying to set your mouse speed to be a quarter of its current speed and see how long you last.
Sincerely, Fzhal |
Elmis
The ill-advised Hermit Collective
12
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 22:46:44 -
[555] - Quote
Fzhal wrote:... Your camera code seems to have a built-in acceleration curve (or resting inertia) to keep things looking smooth.. The problem is that this feature doesn't help me because I too have an acceleration curve to manage the high speed of my mouse.. My mouse speed is 2,000 DPI
I hadn't considered the relationship between mouse speed and the new camera.
I use 2 x 4K monitors - with a combined resolution of 7,680 x 2160.
I run my EVE client in a window of 3,000 x 1800.
My mouse runs at 3,500 CPI. This allows me to cover the full screen real-estate from one side to the other moving the mouse less than 2 physical inches. (I don't have to lift my wrist or move my hand much.) The mouse has an acceleration curve of its own - so I can move slowly / make fine adjustments to position, or a little faster to have it shoot across the screen.
Is this why I haven't been able to find a setting with the new camera that feels half decent? Note - I have no issue at all with the old camera.
|
adriaans
Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak
26
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 23:05:08 -
[556] - Quote
I cannot play with this new camera, I get so awfully nauseous that it is impossible to play!
----True oldschool solo pvp'er----
My latest vid: Insanity IV
|
Chrome Veinss
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
35
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 23:54:55 -
[557] - Quote
The autotracking toggle addition was great but tracking things is still really messed up compared with tracking in the old camera. I dont want the camera to reposition and sloppily slingshot the view of my ship in a random direction out of view or behind UI elements every single time i track something. Just bring back the center tracking position on your ship and you will almost have an usable camera, the rest is bug fixes and polish
Also the horizontal vs vertical ratio feels very restricting. We play this game in 3d, we need to be able to move the camera vertically and horizontally the same way. Its not a gamebreaker for me but if you keep it you will have made your game objectivelly worse |
Sgt Ocker
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
834
|
Posted - 2016.02.18 00:01:46 -
[558] - Quote
Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:I have my D-Scan bound to a mouse button, and when I hit it it goes into a "Click on target" mode. I really don't want it to do this as I just need a refresh of the scan list, and while it's in this mode I can't interact with my UI. Any tips?
Had a similar issue w the key programmed to my g13. Has to do with how the client recieves the key signal. Make sure its not set to repeat the command when held. Depending on how programmable your device is you might try inserting small delays between press and release. It's not programmed (as in, it's not a macro keyed to a button press), and it worked fine before the camera came out of beta. I'll see if actually making it into a macro of [Keypress + 0.1 sec delay] will do anything. Careful - Use of macros is against the EULA. It could see you getting banned.
Interesting though, CCP is making it so difficult for the average player they feel the need to resort to Macros just to b able to play the game.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
|
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF Bad Intention
12
|
Posted - 2016.02.18 00:08:39 -
[559] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:I have my D-Scan bound to a mouse button, and when I hit it it goes into a "Click on target" mode. I really don't want it to do this as I just need a refresh of the scan list, and while it's in this mode I can't interact with my UI. Any tips?
Had a similar issue w the key programmed to my g13. Has to do with how the client recieves the key signal. Make sure its not set to repeat the command when held. Depending on how programmable your device is you might try inserting small delays between press and release. It's not programmed (as in, it's not a macro keyed to a button press), and it worked fine before the camera came out of beta. I'll see if actually making it into a macro of [Keypress + 0.1 sec delay] will do anything. Careful - Use of macros is against the EULA. It could see you getting banned. Interesting though, CCP is making it so difficult for the average player they feel the need to resort to Macros just to b able to play the game. As far as I understand it the rule is 1 input = 1 command. So adjusting the press and release timings of a button shouldn't be against the rules because it's still pressing 1 button to give a 1 button command. |
Sgt Ocker
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
834
|
Posted - 2016.02.18 01:53:43 -
[560] - Quote
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:I have my D-Scan bound to a mouse button, and when I hit it it goes into a "Click on target" mode. I really don't want it to do this as I just need a refresh of the scan list, and while it's in this mode I can't interact with my UI. Any tips?
Had a similar issue w the key programmed to my g13. Has to do with how the client recieves the key signal. Make sure its not set to repeat the command when held. Depending on how programmable your device is you might try inserting small delays between press and release. It's not programmed (as in, it's not a macro keyed to a button press), and it worked fine before the camera came out of beta. I'll see if actually making it into a macro of [Keypress + 0.1 sec delay] will do anything. Careful - Use of macros is against the EULA. It could see you getting banned. Interesting though, CCP is making it so difficult for the average player they feel the need to resort to Macros just to b able to play the game. As far as I understand it the rule is 1 input = 1 command. So adjusting the press and release timings of a button shouldn't be against the rules because it's still pressing 1 button to give a 1 button command. Using the macro is against the EULA. Not how it is used or why.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
|
|
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
327
|
Posted - 2016.02.18 02:02:53 -
[561] - Quote
Old cam ratted and salvaged for a solid 60 minutes no problemo. My first thought was, "Thank God the stars aren't moving". So... yeah. I think whatever the new cam is doing to the star field is what's making everyone's tummy roll?
GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½
|
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF Bad Intention
12
|
Posted - 2016.02.18 02:12:13 -
[562] - Quote
Lfod Shi wrote:Old cam ratted and salvaged for a solid 60 minutes no problemo. My first thought was, "Thank God the stars aren't moving". So... yeah. I think whatever the new cam is doing to the star field is what's making everyone's tummy roll? That's the Dynamic Field of View option. I don't know about everyone else, but disabling that helped me quite a lot, but not completely. I'm convinced the sluggishness of the camera movements is part of it too. |
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
328
|
Posted - 2016.02.18 02:14:36 -
[563] - Quote
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:Lfod Shi wrote:Old cam ratted and salvaged for a solid 60 minutes no problemo. My first thought was, "Thank God the stars aren't moving". So... yeah. I think whatever the new cam is doing to the star field is what's making everyone's tummy roll? That's the Dynamic Field of View option. I don't know about everyone else, but disabling that helped me quite a lot, but not completely. I'm convinced the sluggishness of the camera movements is part of it too.
Unfortunately, disabling that didn't help me at all. Only thing that works for me is the old cam.
GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½
|
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
451
|
Posted - 2016.02.18 02:32:19 -
[564] - Quote
Programming keyboard shortcuts to input devices while technically considered a macro is not against eula. Whats against eula is programming a set of muliple actions to take place with a single press which creates an advantage. Its been confirmed a gazillion times so dont spout paranoid bologna.
Daemun of Khanid
|
Fzhal
Tessaract Industries
38
|
Posted - 2016.02.18 02:50:05 -
[565] - Quote
Elmis wrote:Fzhal wrote:... Your camera code seems to have a built-in acceleration curve (or resting inertia) to keep things looking smooth.. The problem is that this feature doesn't help me because I too have an acceleration curve to manage the high speed of my mouse.. My mouse speed is 2,000 DPI I hadn't considered the relationship between mouse speed and the new camera. I use 2 x 4K monitors - with a combined resolution of 7,680 x 2160. I run my EVE client in a window of 3,000 x 1800. My mouse runs at 3,500 CPI. This allows me to cover the full screen real-estate from one side to the other moving the mouse less than 2 physical inches. (I don't have to lift my wrist or move my hand much.) The mouse has an acceleration curve of its own - so I can move slowly / make fine adjustments to position, or a little faster to have it shoot across the screen. Is this why I haven't been able to find a setting with the new camera that feels half decent? Note - I have no issue at all with the old camera. Correct. You suffer from the same two things I pointed out. It is precisely what makes it impossible for us to configure the camera settings appropriately. |
Octavius Gaius
nul-li-fy I N F A M O U S
3
|
Posted - 2016.02.18 03:28:44 -
[566] - Quote
I dont care if the sky box gets blurry at max zoom, give the new camera just as much FOV zoom as the old camera (ctrl+r+L mouse then move mouse to right) I use the max zoom of the old camera to perfectly align insta-undocks even more important now with the huge grid sizes. |
Kblackjack54
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
128
|
Posted - 2016.02.18 06:31:38 -
[567] - Quote
Not fit for purpose, Call the guy that wrote the code and tell him he's fired. |
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
452
|
Posted - 2016.02.18 06:55:00 -
[568] - Quote
In the end I think this new camera will be fine. CCP seem willing to make changes that ppl are asking for and have been pushing out big fixes for it every patch. It's just disappointing given how long this was on test server that it was rushed on to live in the state it was.
Point for point the things that people have been complaining of in this thread and in GD were all reported on the test server feedback thread. The functionality issues, the bugs, dscan, offset, mouse sensitivity and zoom speeds. All of it. Yet it was seemingly ignored and they made it optional on live. No one used it but we kept reporting the issues on the only thread on the subject available in test server forums and tried to make ppl aware of the issue and get them to test it. The last time I posted in GD asking ppl to get on the test server, try it out and respond in the feedback thread the thread was locked for not being in the feedback thread. Then they went and made it opt out and as predicted the tears came rolling in and their first response was "we're making it mandatory in 1 month."
Why did it take until NOW to start changing these things and start fixing the bugs we'd been reporting for months? I really want to be supportive of them on this change as I can see how, particularly with the tactical camera, it will be needed in the future for cap changes. The way they've gone about it though has been borderline offensive. Why ask us for feedback and ignore it? I understand you have to take player feedback with a grain of salt and make decisions based on information the player base may not have but when you don't even fix reported bugs and functionality issues it seems more like we were blown off completely.
Daemun of Khanid
|
Esnaelc Sin'led
The Unchained Club
69
|
Posted - 2016.02.18 10:56:12 -
[569] - Quote
They never ignored player feedbacks man. Really.
I think you did not test New Camera since its first release on SiSi, because A LOT has changed since now. A LOT.
Even though it still needs tweaks, they did quite a good job taking player requests in count and multiple changes have been made according them.
It's still one month until next patch, a lot can still change, and they can still cancel the 'mandatory' thing.
Build constructive feedbacks, and stop complaining (<-- not about YOU specificly, that's a general advice to any one who is not ok with new camera) like spoiled kids who want their camera BACK NAO.
That won't help the game go ahead. |
Heidi Franklin
Blind Assault Silent Infinity
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.18 14:48:42 -
[570] - Quote
I would like to point out that not only do I want the old tracking camera functionality but i want the ability to SET A CUSTOM TRACKING POSITION. This weird offset you have put in place is awful and essentially places my ship either off camera when tracking or behind my chat windows and its driving me CRAZY. (In case your english is off driving me crazy is not a good thing)
Also I do understand how the new camera is vomit inducing. It really is a problem. CCP, you need to take a good look into the issues people are having and make sure they are fixed before forcing a horrible change on us. |
|
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
1334
|
Posted - 2016.02.18 17:45:52 -
[571] - Quote
I've turned off the New Camera and opted for the old fully working one.
The main problem I has with it was no right-click free look. I mean WTF, really. I struggled to get any good screenshots without it so off it went. I'm happy without the new "features" of the new camera. I know less is moreis asaying but not when it comes to affecting functionality of a very core piece of piloting in EVE.
I'm curious as to what the stats say on how many people still have it enabled? Numbers speak louder than words sometimes as many aren't forum goers and go silently into the night.
[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee"
Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b]
Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
|
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF Bad Intention
14
|
Posted - 2016.02.19 04:57:35 -
[572] - Quote
Maximus Aerelius wrote:I've turned off the New Camera and opted for the old fully working one.
The main problem I has with it was no right-click free look. I mean WTF, really. I struggled to get any good screenshots without it so off it went. I'm happy without the new "features" of the new camera. I know less is moreis asaying but not when it comes to affecting functionality of a very core piece of piloting in EVE.
I'm curious as to what the stats say on how many people still have it enabled? Numbers speak louder than words sometimes as many aren't forum goers and go silently into the night. Numbers speak louder than words when it comes to knowing there is a problem. At this point I'm sure they're well aware the camera isn't quite right yet. At this point they need to actually change things, which requires words about what to change and how. |
Obao
Concordiat Spaceship Samurai
4
|
Posted - 2016.02.19 07:04:06 -
[573] - Quote
I too am rendered nauseated when trying to use this new camera. Please do not implement this thing without leaving the option to use the old camera. I cannot play EVE with the new camera so if it comes about that we're given no choice, it will mean the ende of my playing EVE. |
|
CCP Turtlepower
C C P C C P Alliance
316
|
Posted - 2016.02.19 15:15:22 -
[574] - Quote
Hello everyone,
We met with the CSM this week had an extensive session to go over the new camera, and have a pretty sizable task list to work on in the coming weeks. To make sure we get the camera into top shape before making it the only camera, we have decided to leave the old camera in for another month.
We are not planning on deploying more tweaks and fixes to Tranquility until the March 8th release.
Once again thanks for all the feedback and support. CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters |
|
Rixx Javix
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
529
|
Posted - 2016.02.19 16:12:03 -
[575] - Quote
Woot!!
http://eveoganda.blogspot.com
|
Manic Velocity
The Corp I Just Left
165
|
Posted - 2016.02.19 16:14:57 -
[576] - Quote
Good call on extending the deadline, and for not hastily pushing new stuff to TQ. :P
Looking forward to testing on SiSi.
@manicvelocity
|
Oovarvu
Maas Industries
9
|
Posted - 2016.02.19 16:17:24 -
[577] - Quote
it's not that i don't like new stuff, i do. the new camera however sucks in ways most of the previous posts have pointed out.
it would be very bad to lose the old tracking camera. |
Jayne Fillon
824
|
Posted - 2016.02.19 16:23:48 -
[578] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Hello everyone,
We met with the CSM this week had an extensive session to go over the new camera, and have a pretty sizable task list to work on in the coming weeks. To make sure we get the camera into top shape before making it the only camera, we have decided to leave the old camera in for another month.
We are not planning on deploying more tweaks and fixes to Tranquility until the March 8th release.
Once again thanks for all the feedback and support. CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters Thanks for meeting with us! I felt it was a very productive session and look forward to the upcoming adjustments.
Can't shoot blues if you don't have any. Long Live NPSI.
|
Josef Djugashvilis
3305
|
Posted - 2016.02.19 16:24:17 -
[579] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Hello everyone,
We met with the CSM this week had an extensive session to go over the new camera, and have a pretty sizable task list to work on in the coming weeks. To make sure we get the camera into top shape before making it the only camera, we have decided to leave the old camera in for another month.
We are not planning on deploying more tweaks and fixes to Tranquility until the March 8th release.
Once again thanks for all the feedback and support. CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
It is good that CCP is listening to the feedback and willing to improve the new camera.
However, I am curious, did any of you actually use the new camera in 'real' game play, and if so, how did no one notice how bad it is?
This is not a signature.
|
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
330
|
Posted - 2016.02.19 16:48:59 -
[580] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Hello everyone,
We met with the CSM this week had an extensive session to go over the new camera, and have a pretty sizable task list to work on in the coming weeks. To make sure we get the camera into top shape before making it the only camera, we have decided to leave the old camera in for another month.
We are not planning on deploying more tweaks and fixes to Tranquility until the March 8th release.
Once again thanks for all the feedback and support. CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½
|
|
Jarrec DuMorne
Concordiat Spaceship Samurai
13
|
Posted - 2016.02.19 17:31:48 -
[581] - Quote
Jayne Fillon wrote: Thanks for meeting with us! I felt it was a very productive session and look forward to the upcoming adjustments.
That sounds encouraging. Thanks for taking the feedback seriously.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
27184
|
Posted - 2016.02.19 17:44:50 -
[582] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Hello everyone,
We met with the CSM this week had an extensive session to go over the new camera, and have a pretty sizable task list to work on in the coming weeks. To make sure we get the camera into top shape before making it the only camera, we have decided to leave the old camera in for another month.
We are not planning on deploying more tweaks and fixes to Tranquility until the March 8th release.
Once again thanks for all the feedback and support. CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters Sounds good. We'll see what happens on the 8th, then, and if there's anything left to be fixed before the April release.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
|
Ashlar Maidstone
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
213
|
Posted - 2016.02.19 17:51:27 -
[583] - Quote
CCP_Turtlepower, Sir/Madame, while I applaud your efforts to making a quality improvement to the camera, in my best judgement and opinion, I think it's better to leave the old camera in as it is. I tried the new camera and despite it short comings I can NOT for the likes of me see how this is any better than what we have already.
I cannot see any reasoning other than pure laziness to go and update any outdated code and can not understand why you want to completely strip the old camera out on such a such date and there by rendering a lot of activity in a bigger mess than what it is now. |
Leonardo Adami
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
135
|
Posted - 2016.02.19 18:22:44 -
[584] - Quote
Ok, so if you uncheck all the extra camera boxes and set camera speed to mac maximum it's almost better then old camera. The bug that caused the camera to lock when using middle mouse button is fixed is great thank you. Tracking camera added is even better also having the tactical overlay stay pulled up when session changes happen is swell too. Thank you for those fixes.
They're three things that still need to be fixed imo.
1) unless you're intentionally nerfing the tracking camera by making us press "C" to track please change it back. We should only need to press "C" once, then click on whatever object we want to scan without holding C or pressing it multiple times., which is the way it is now. Anything other wise feels clunky and that extra step is just more work in a demanding game.
2) please do not offset our ship when using tracking camera. Right now when your camera pans it offsets your ship to the left. I reaaly don't like this. It's not game breaking or anything but having it offset really bothers me.
3) right mouse buttom panning. Its be nice to have this feature but again not game breaking.
Some additional things I also noticed when You lose your ship there is some delay with the camera that makes it hard to warp pod out.
When using a cyno for jump freighter the warp field is all twisted and sideways looking.
Camera is getting better and with a few more tweaks it should be good to go. |
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
142
|
Posted - 2016.02.19 18:33:35 -
[585] - Quote
As directed by CCP Darwin/CCP Support twitter posting feed back here in hopes the UI team will comment
Tab Not rolling windows
Since January's patch (maybe even back into December) the minimize function of the double tap tab feature no longer works (I'm sure it can be rebound, but....)
Adding in my notes from the original thread for visibilty to the UI team. As it appears this feature was removed with out communication (correct me if I'm mistaken).
Tweet from customer service team
=================
For a lot of people that was actually a useful feature... Can it still be bound to something or is the roll up just completely gone?
Q: What as the ratio of people confused vs. those users who found it useful functionality?
Couldn't you have put in some kinda prompt (I hear that new opportunity system is good for giving feedback) like a pop up regardless of aura's state for notifications in game? The pop up box could activate the first time or persist until someone clicks on an acknowledgement they've read/understand the text when someone accidentially clicked tab twice. Just needs to give basics to say what happened, why and how to restore..
Pretty sure once someone see the prompt (unless this just X out of everything instantly) will understand and move on.
Hell, future idea.... make one of those new flight academy videos have a pro-tip UI type of video just going over some little nice features that players might not know about? *purely spit-balling here* Go over useful UI tweaks so new bros understand some of the complexity of the UI, what it can do and how it can be tweaked to make the eve experience better, rather then killing something we use cause a few people accidentally mis-clicked tab and complained? I can't ever recall seeing someone post about a problem with the function... so why remove it?
Q: Was this even a discussed change in a patch note, forum thread (aside from the one opened after the change) or other? I don't follow ever CCP twitter account (let alone actively monitor twitter daily) so maybe I missed it, but in reality first time i knew there something amiss was when I came here after looking for an explanation as to where the function went.
It was nice to be able to quickly roll down everything to get a full view of whats going on and returning it normal state. You've had that feature for as long as (and probably longer) then I've been playing.. it was removed with out any real notification. Pretty sure I didn't see it in a patch note but I could be mistaken.
=================
If we can get some kinda comment on why you're removing a feature due to what I'm sure is a small percentage of player (most likely new trial accounts) and not taking into consideration that the function had a purpose for older players who have used this for years (it's been in since long before I started playing I'm sure)
CCP UI team - Please comment/consider revision of your change.. Yes I know is a small function, but really we did use it/miss it... /rant - for now
@dominousnolen
|
Aivlis Eldelbar
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Curatores Veritatis Alliance
159
|
Posted - 2016.02.19 18:40:27 -
[586] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Hello everyone,
We met with the CSM this week had an extensive session to go over the new camera, and have a pretty sizable task list to work on in the coming weeks. To make sure we get the camera into top shape before making it the only camera, we have decided to leave the old camera in for another month.
We are not planning on deploying more tweaks and fixes to Tranquility until the March 8th release.
Once again thanks for all the feedback and support. CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
Respect for moving the deadline <3
|
Trajan Unknown
Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops
101
|
Posted - 2016.02.19 20:07:45 -
[587] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Hello everyone,
We met with the CSM this week had an extensive session to go over the new camera, and have a pretty sizable task list to work on in the coming weeks. To make sure we get the camera into top shape before making it the only camera, we have decided to leave the old camera in for another month.
We are not planning on deploying more tweaks and fixes to Tranquility until the March 8th release.
Once again thanks for all the feedback and support. CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
I have rambled a lot in this thread - not my usual behaviour - but now it-¦s time to say "Thank you CCP Turtlepower" for doing what should be done. :) I am looking forward to be able to use the new camera since it has some really nice features. |
Zappity
Black Aces I N F A M O U S
2696
|
Posted - 2016.02.19 20:11:00 -
[588] - Quote
New camera breaks entirely (can't pan screen) when you jump a jump freighter to a cyno.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
|
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1091
|
Posted - 2016.02.19 21:07:27 -
[589] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Hello everyone,
We met with the CSM this week had an extensive session to go over the new camera, and have a pretty sizable task list to work on in the coming weeks. To make sure we get the camera into top shape before making it the only camera, we have decided to leave the old camera in for another month.
We are not planning on deploying more tweaks and fixes to Tranquility until the March 8th release.
Once again thanks for all the feedback and support. CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters Thanks for listening. I promise in return to give he new camera another try.
Remove insurance.
|
Erebus 'TheChin' Sundance
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.19 21:36:43 -
[590] - Quote
I am still using the classic camera for the following reasons.
Tactical: This can be turned off or on easily anyway. I personally rarely use it anyway as I find the white too bright and the distances are not accurate.
Orbit camera: It is still missing two important features for me, the 'look about' while holding left mouse button, and the ability to zoom in by holding the right MB and moving the mouse forward/backwards. Glad you brought the 'c' to look at ability back in though.
First person mode: The inability to look around, this is such a great view, but you can only look forward, seems a shame. I'm not sure what advantages it has not allowing movement. Having the turning keys is fine, but I either orbit, approach or double click in space to move mostly, as soon as something fly's past your vision you can't see it. The zoom feature is a nice touch. Please let us look about in this view.
Keep up the good work. |
|
Yui z
Kernel of War Goonswarm Federation
3
|
Posted - 2016.02.20 02:12:40 -
[591] - Quote
Please, please !
Remove that annoying background sound on the tactical camera .. what the hell is this for anyway beside being a pain to our ears ? And remove it also from the ship tree where you're at it..
|
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
456
|
Posted - 2016.02.20 02:33:02 -
[592] - Quote
Since the addition of the toggled tracking camera I've been leaving the new camera enabled. I really don't like the way I constantly have to find my ship due to the tracking cam offset and the wacky zoom changes but I'm finding it bearable enough to stick with it so that I can get used to it.
Daemun of Khanid
|
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
1612
|
Posted - 2016.02.20 02:34:35 -
[593] - Quote
Yui z wrote:Remove that annoying background sound on the tactical camera
This too. Same for the first-person camera. Or give them their own, UNIQUE sliders in the audio menu. They hurt my ears but given the way you guys have designed the selective audio volume sliders, there's really no way of knowing where you've put a given set of audio cues or effects. Half the time they're in sets where they frankly don't belong.
Morwen Lagann
CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar
Owner, The Golden Masque
|
Idame Isqua
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
17
|
Posted - 2016.02.20 02:38:44 -
[594] - Quote
Before the community fixes your new camera what about the community fixing your old camera?
The old camera was broken
If you have something locked you have to select it again to look at it
The old camera was broken
If you looked at something hitting look at (nothing) didn't do anything and you had to manually use the information button window (which is entirely useless apart from acting as a fix for the broken "feature" and click the stop look at button.
If I want to manually pilot towards a ship after having to click on something one to many times It was simple enough
If I wanted to manually pilot away from something I had to fight the terrible UI of eve again First I have to lock it and start shooting it or whatever Then I have to move my camera (if its a locked target it should be ALWAYS primary selected item having to always click again and again is dumb) Ok that was a nightmare but I still have a job to do Now I have to click on my ship in space
Only now can I manually pilot away from the ship I'm fighting
In short unless i click on something else default to looking at my selected target default to looking at my last selected anything default to something $^@$*$^ing logical $^**% do i have a shortcut for looking at something but not un looking at something ^&%&$*$%& is looking at something and tracking my own ship so hard %^&$%%$ else would I want to do *^%(^&%%^&( logic please default to tracking my own ship (why the ^$&* would I want to d scan from the position of another ship?????
CCPLEASE
(Click on something one to many times usually results in me logging off from eve)
This was dumb and painfully bad.
How the old camera should of worked.
My selected target is always primary focus I lock it or whatever I hit look at (Previously manually piloting towards and d scanning stuff worked good) Automatically (IF I HAVE AUTOTRACKING ON) IT AUTO TRACKS MY OWN SHIP BECAUSE NOTHING ELSE IS LOGICAL! Now I can manually pilot away just as "easily" as I can towards
Now the new camera lol what What is the point of the new probe window if you can't d scan using it?????????????
You can't PvP with the new camera You can't D scan with the new camera
The new camera is a joke
Fix what was broken with the old camera and call that a new camera if your so intent on bringing new "features".
Also on the delayed d scan I'm kinda surprised thats being called a accident now Surely it was a "feature" |
Invisusira
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
324
|
Posted - 2016.02.20 06:35:12 -
[595] - Quote
Tracking camera only appears to work when you click on the overview, not on actual objects in space.
EVE Music
|
Terraj Oknatis
xX-Crusader-Xx Tactical Narcotics Team
40
|
Posted - 2016.02.20 06:53:16 -
[596] - Quote
RAGE HAS ENDED
Thank you so much for listening to our concerns
This was a unexpected yet pleasant turn of events.
Get it right, make it better than it is now, then release it!!!!!! |
RuleoftheBone
Stellar Conundrum
30
|
Posted - 2016.02.20 06:58:43 -
[597] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Hello everyone,
We met with the CSM this week had an extensive session to go over the new camera, and have a pretty sizable task list to work on in the coming weeks. To make sure we get the camera into top shape before making it the only camera, we have decided to leave the old camera in for another month.
We are not planning on deploying more tweaks and fixes to Tranquility until the March 8th release.
Once again thanks for all the feedback and support. CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
I want to express my thanks for delaying the roll-out until the behavior of both camera/scanner can be base-lined/normalized to the current abilities of the legacy system.
Going forward though....PLEASE look at getting the minimum standard of performance equal to legacy as a default....and then allow us end-users to add functionality as desired.
For example....I don't care about gee whiz effects, making movies, and screen shots. Let those that care about such enable and build from the default.
As another pilot mentioned I will be happy to re-visit the new when it reaches the minimum of functioning properly as the legacy systems already do.
And finally....if the POS towers and Citadels can co-exist for the length of time required to figure out the end-state of change-over....surely the ability to keep the legacy camera/scanner is trivial in comparison.
Thanks for listening
Bone
p.s. IF...as I have heard rumored...this whole camera/scanner business is meant to be some sort of stealth nerf to non-lazy pilots who know how to dscan/track with camera/probe......may I suggest removing local as THE overpowered stupid intel tool within the game .
In WH space nobody hears you scream until it's too late. Share the fun with nullsec
|
Xercodo
Xovoni Directorate
4302
|
Posted - 2016.02.20 10:12:25 -
[598] - Quote
Simple list here:
- Closer limit on zooming in. I can barely see any details on my ship the few times I want to zoom in on it. - Retain FOV after session change. I play across 3 screens and the zoomed out FOV works great for that surround effect from stretching the edges, but I have to change it again every time I undock or jump through a gate. (A method to reset FOV would also be something that should be considered once this retention between session changes works). - Bring back the ability to use right click to pivot the camera on its own axis and do extreme zooming when using the orbit camera (Sorry for the really old vid but you get the idea :D) - I'd LOVE for the ability for the same to work on the FP camera so I can look around without changing course of the ship. - Ability to customize the locations of your ship and a "tracked" object. - Ability to toggle the "fly by" effect of looking at another ship as a it moves. I want my camera locked to it the same way my ship would. It's great for a cinematic framing, but not so much for actual combat
Also THANK YOU for removing the "Look At" limit of 100km. I was able to finally accurately target some POS modules I was sniping at. Being able to directly look at the series of batteries that were 230km away ensured I didn't needlessly lock onto an already incapped gun :D
The Drake is a Lie
|
Erebus 'TheChin' Sundance
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.20 11:07:36 -
[599] - Quote
[quote=Xercodo]Simple list here:
- Bring back the ability to use right click to pivot the camera on its own axis and do extreme zooming when using the orbit camera (Sorry for the really old vid but you get the idea :D)
This is exactly what I meant, sorry If I explained it appallingly, and nice to see someone else that wants view movement in first person mode.
|
Nicola Arman
Lacuna. AII ShaII Perish
122
|
Posted - 2016.02.20 13:53:44 -
[600] - Quote
The Tracking function needs to be fixed. It is not nearly as smooth and seemless as the old camera. Also maybe some options or sliders to set Default FOV. It's really annoying having to adjust this every time you look at something. |
|
Tyranis Marcus
Bloody Heathens
1468
|
Posted - 2016.02.20 15:41:26 -
[601] - Quote
Thank you for adding toggle for camera tracking, and for improving dscan. Trying out the new camera today, again. Sometimes the movements seem odd and I want to counter them with my mouse to get a better view. One example was going into warp just now, the camera slid forward in front of my ship, so the ship wasn't even on the screen anymore. I zoomed back, of course. The overall experience seems to be improving, though.
Do not run. We are your friends.
|
Aliana Heartborne
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2016.02.20 19:10:11 -
[602] - Quote
Dominous Nolen wrote:As directed by CCP Darwin/CCP Support twitter posting feed back here in hopes the UI team will comment Original Reported thread >> Tab Not rolling windows Since January's patch (maybe even back into December) the minimize function of the double tap tab feature no longer works (I'm sure it can be rebound, but....) Adding in my notes from the original thread for visibilty to the UI team. As it appears this feature was removed with out communication (correct me if I'm mistaken). Tweet from customer service team================= >quote snipped
do want window roll up/down back indeed |
Gommel Nox
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
32
|
Posted - 2016.02.20 20:19:41 -
[603] - Quote
I posted this days ago in the upcoming feature thread on this topic, and apparently the reason I didn't get any response from anyone was because I was supposed to post in the dev blog thread. My bad.
Gommel Nox wrote:I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, and I apologize profusely if it already has been beaten to death, but here's my big issue with the new HUD/camera changes. For those of you who do not know, I am a quadriplegic capsuleer. What this means is that I do not have the physical ability to type on a keyboard at all, I cannot feel anything below my chest, and I cannot move my fingers, wrists, or even arms in a meaningful way. In spite of all of these things, I have still managed to keep my eve career going since 2008, adapting with every new change to the UI since.
However, the recent changes to the HUD/game camera are very concerning to me. The reason behind this is that, with the new UI, it is completely impossible for me to zoom in and out. I'm not sure what exactly happened to the zoom buttons, and while CCP Punkturis successfully managed to CCPass_The_Buck to CCP Goliath, not knowing that he was no longer on the team involved with the UI changes. While I should be concerned that, within CCP, people don't know exactly what other people are doing, I'm even more concerned that the new UI changes will be shoehorned in, with disabled people being told to "just bind buttons to zoom in and out" as if it were a feasible option for everybody who plays. I assure you that it isn't.
If you don't know at this point, in addition to being a disabled gamer, I also stream and occasionally write for themittani.com, and I would absolutely love to be able to pick your brain about Eve online being what I would consider one of the most accessible games available for people with disabilities, in a TMC feature for my column, Access:Granted. I really hope you will consider an interview.
Thank you very much
Has this been discussed already? |
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
145
|
Posted - 2016.02.20 22:50:57 -
[604] - Quote
Morwen Lagann wrote:Yui z wrote:Remove that annoying background sound on the tactical camera
This too. Same for the first-person camera. Or give them their own, UNIQUE sliders in the audio menu. They hurt my ears but given the way you guys have designed the selective audio volume sliders, there's really no way of knowing where you've put a given set of audio cues or effects. Half the time they're in sets where they frankly don't belong, like ambience stuff being in the UI slider. That's... not okay. Nor does it make sense.
Also add controls to turn off incursion chatter, Thera ambiance.
@dominousnolen
|
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33390
|
Posted - 2016.02.20 22:53:58 -
[605] - Quote
What are the settings I need to ensure I have the full "new" camera? I want to make sure I'm experiencing the whole thing. All I see right now are the five or six camera checkboxes in the bottom left of the General Settings tab in ESC menu.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
|
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF Bad Intention
14
|
Posted - 2016.02.21 00:24:57 -
[606] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:What are the settings I need to ensure I have the full "new" camera? I want to make sure I'm experiencing the whole thing. All I see right now are the five or six camera checkboxes in the bottom left of the General Settings tab in ESC menu. Those and the checkbox on the general tab called "Try the new camera". |
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
146
|
Posted - 2016.02.21 01:45:49 -
[607] - Quote
Feature enhancement During site running I observed when hacking a can if I press CTRL+SHIFT + Click when attempting to unlock a target the camera snaps the orbit mode with tracking camera follow toggled on to the target being removed from active locks.
Behaviour change request : Have the ctrl+SHIFT+ click leave the camera in its current position rather then snapping to the target being unlocked.
@dominousnolen
|
Parious MeHoff
Level Eight Technical Exterminations Sovereign Technologies
2
|
Posted - 2016.02.21 03:50:19 -
[608] - Quote
I'm sure it already has been mentioned, but I would like to see a toggle on the new camera controls for an auto tracking camera.
Thanks for the great game! |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33390
|
Posted - 2016.02.21 04:20:27 -
[609] - Quote
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:Rain6637 wrote:What are the settings I need to ensure I have the full "new" camera? I want to make sure I'm experiencing the whole thing. All I see right now are the five or six camera checkboxes in the bottom left of the General Settings tab in ESC menu. Those and the checkbox on the general tab called "Try the new camera". Oh, okay thanks. I got confused, I was posting afk and meant the Display & Graphics tab. Seems I have the General Settings checkbox marked.
I hope you're bringing the old C toggle camera function into the new camera. Swivel the camera all you want but you need to anchor the camera on the player's ship. Right now the track function is more like "look at... from a distance"
I have Alt+1 bound to a G-Key and spam it when something goes wrong with the camera.
Zoom works like it should, pan works like it should. Return to center with Alt+1
That track function though. Sitting in a citadel yeah it works, but for pilotage we need the old C tracking behavior.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
|
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
146
|
Posted - 2016.02.21 06:53:58 -
[610] - Quote
Parious MeHoff wrote:I'm sure it already has been mentioned, but I would like to see a toggle on the new camera controls for an auto tracking camera.
Thanks for the great game!
It was added days ago. Shift + C
@dominousnolen
|
|
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
146
|
Posted - 2016.02.21 06:57:17 -
[611] - Quote
Opened EBR-68512: CAMERA ZOOM LEVEL RANDOMLY ADJUSTING
Camera when clicking into random space with the tracking camera toggle on will snap to my ship by default and also reset its zoom level to double my original amount
Video included on EBR and here.
Tracking camera zoom + snap
@dominousnolen
|
Anluan
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.21 22:20:34 -
[612] - Quote
Uhm, you need to fix the camera to no do weird things when:
1) you are in the map and start moving around. the map moves too... 2) You are in the fitting window and you warp, the ship model moves
|
Ecrir Twy'Lar
Federation Navy 3rd Fleet
23
|
Posted - 2016.02.22 01:37:54 -
[613] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Hello everyone,
We met with the CSM this week had an extensive session to go over the new camera, and have a pretty sizable task list to work on in the coming weeks. To make sure we get the camera into top shape before making it the only camera, we have decided to leave the old camera in for another month.
We are not planning on deploying more tweaks and fixes to Tranquility until the March 8th release.
Once again thanks for all the feedback and support. CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
First of all I would like to thank you for giving us back a toggle for tracking. I can sleep at night now.
Second... I've notice that with the tracking toggle turned on, I can click on things out in space and my camera will focus there where I can dscan. This works for bookmarks seen in space as well. However, if I open the system map from the dscan ui, I can do the same with I think everything except for bookmarks. This isn't a huge deal, because I can still do it in space. However I think it would make a handy addition for those times when you want to dscan from the system map. I think it would also be a good learning tool for those learning how to use dscan effectively. |
|
CCP Turtlepower
C C P C C P Alliance
331
|
Posted - 2016.02.22 11:41:59 -
[614] - Quote
Gommel Nox wrote:I posted this days ago in the upcoming feature thread on this topic, and apparently the reason I didn't get any response from anyone was because I was supposed to post in the dev blog thread. My bad. Gommel Nox wrote:I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, and I apologize profusely if it already has been beaten to death, but here's my big issue with the new HUD/camera changes. For those of you who do not know, I am a quadriplegic capsuleer. What this means is that I do not have the physical ability to type on a keyboard at all, I cannot feel anything below my chest, and I cannot move my fingers, wrists, or even arms in a meaningful way. In spite of all of these things, I have still managed to keep my eve career going since 2008, adapting with every new change to the UI since.
However, the recent changes to the HUD/game camera are very concerning to me. The reason behind this is that, with the new UI, it is completely impossible for me to zoom in and out. I'm not sure what exactly happened to the zoom buttons, and while CCP Punkturis successfully managed to CCPass_The_Buck to CCP Goliath, not knowing that he was no longer on the team involved with the UI changes. While I should be concerned that, within CCP, people don't know exactly what other people are doing, I'm even more concerned that the new UI changes will be shoehorned in, with disabled people being told to "just bind buttons to zoom in and out" as if it were a feasible option for everybody who plays. I assure you that it isn't.
If you don't know at this point, in addition to being a disabled gamer, I also stream and occasionally write for themittani.com, and I would absolutely love to be able to pick your brain about Eve online being what I would consider one of the most accessible games available for people with disabilities, in a TMC feature for my column, Access:Granted. I really hope you will consider an interview.
Thank you very much Has this been discussed already?
This has not been discussed in this thread to the best of my knowledge, but we are aware of this issue and plan to deploy a fix for it on March 8th.
Cheers, CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters |
|
Raphendyr Nardieu
Unpublished Chapter Suddenly Content
74
|
Posted - 2016.02.22 18:07:35 -
[615] - Quote
Noticed that when disconnecting from tracking (rotateing camera manually when I was tracking something), the camera rotates a lot more than one would expect. This makes it hard to use autotracking or manual to rotate the camera towards the enemy and then repositionin the camera manually.
Basically when you mainly rotate the camera by hand, but some times you loss orientation to the target and want to get the target in view port. You click the track and there the enemy is and then you rotate the camera a bit and lost the enemy again. |
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF Bad Intention
14
|
Posted - 2016.02.23 05:18:13 -
[616] - Quote
Raphendyr Nardieu wrote:Noticed that when disconnecting from tracking (rotateing camera manually when I was tracking something), the camera rotates a lot more than one would expect. This makes it hard to use autotracking or manual to rotate the camera towards the enemy and then repositionin the camera manually.
Basically when you mainly rotate the camera by hand, but some times you loss orientation to the target and want to get the target in view port. You click the track and there the enemy is and then you rotate the camera a bit and lost the enemy again.
That could be easily solved by not moving the camera to the side of the ship. |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33397
|
Posted - 2016.02.23 06:58:52 -
[617] - Quote
Actually I think the problem is when you track and then swivel, your camera is looking at nothing in particular. Because it wasn't anchored on your ship in any way, and then it isn't looking at the target.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
|
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
152
|
Posted - 2016.02.23 16:33:32 -
[618] - Quote
Dominous Nolen wrote:Opened EBR-68512: CAMERA ZOOM LEVEL RANDOMLY ADJUSTING Camera when clicking into random space with the tracking camera toggle on will snap to my ship by default and also reset its zoom level to double my original amount Video included on EBR and here. Tracking camera zoom + snap
EDIT: WTF?! My EBR was closed with no updates/comments
If this is being included in a future correction could you at least have the bug hunting team include something?
@dominousnolen
|
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
323
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 01:53:32 -
[619] - Quote
Dominous Nolen wrote:As directed by CCP Darwin/CCP Support twitter posting feed back here in hopes the UI team will comment Original Reported thread >> Tab Not rolling windows
I copy my paste from that relevant topic:
Natya Mebelle wrote:You have got to be kidding, right? That is not how feedback works. Only because some people report is as bad doesn't mean that many people do NOT say anything about it since they think it is good. Instead, your choice of action should have been testing how much people use it and if it has valid reasons before you jump to conclusions. You are removing a FEATURE that is useful once LEARNED. Instead you cater to the lowest common denominator of "Monkey don't know, monkey don't push?" You advertise your game as a sandbox. How many tools do you want to keep taking away from us and force us to build only one type of thing with one type of sand until you don't have anyone left to get reasonably creative? The functionality was totally fine. Anyone who doesn't want it it on the tab key, should be allowed to change that keybind. And not removing the entire function. Honestly, where did that even come up? I can't remember anyone saying in corp chat (NPC starter corporation, so we got MANY questions incoming) that they accidentally killed all their windows.
|
Shade Millith
Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. I N F A M O U S
178
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 12:21:45 -
[620] - Quote
Since server is down and Sisi is the only thing available, I'm having another try of the new camera.
1) Once more, vertical camera movement is a problem. Fix it. I think this is half the reason people feel that it's sluggish and unresponsive. It feels horrible, making vertical movement feel too slow and bogged down, and horizontal movement feel too quick.
2) 'Look At' camera is not good. Looking at an opponent is extremely important to get information on the ships movement and gun types. This staticly placed camera you've put on (AGAIN!) looks cool, but performs worse as a source of information. Old camera is quick and snappy. New camera is slow and sluggish.
3) Zoom is just uncontrollable. Exponentially increasing how fast it zooms doesn't work.
There's a reason that nobody I've talked to has had good things to say about it, and have opted out. The same with the new D-scan and new Map.
Setup the Orbit Camera exactly as the old camera is now for those that use the camera as a PVP tool. Put in a Cinematic Camera with all the bells and whistles for those that want a pretty light show.
CCP, please. Stop dulling the axe to make it look shinier. It's not improving the game. |
|
Ecrir Twy'Lar
Federation Navy 3rd Fleet
23
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 14:59:00 -
[621] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:Dominous Nolen wrote:As directed by CCP Darwin/CCP Support twitter posting feed back here in hopes the UI team will comment Original Reported thread >> Tab Not rolling windows I copy my paste from that relevant topic: Natya Mebelle wrote:You have got to be kidding, right? That is not how feedback works. Only because some people report is as bad doesn't mean that many people do NOT say anything about it since they think it is good. Instead, your choice of action should have been testing how much people use it and if it has valid reasons before you jump to conclusions. You are removing a FEATURE that is useful once LEARNED. Instead you cater to the lowest common denominator of "Monkey don't know, monkey don't push?" You advertise your game as a sandbox. How many tools do you want to keep taking away from us and force us to build only one type of thing with one type of sand until you don't have anyone left to get reasonably creative? The functionality was totally fine. Anyone who doesn't want it it on the tab key, should be allowed to change that keybind. And not removing the entire function. Honestly, where did that even come up? I can't remember anyone saying in corp chat (NPC starter corporation, so we got MANY questions incoming) that they accidentally killed all their windows.
I was hoping they could remove functionality on my caps lock because I keep bumping it and yelling at people in local. Seriously though, you have to admit that it is ironic that a developer named "Darwin" is advocating protecting people from themselves. |
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
152
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 21:29:34 -
[622] - Quote
Any dev aside from Darwin able to comment on the tab situation?
Would love to know if we're going to get an explaination as to why the feature was removed without comment.
There seems to be a fair amount of user support on a few threads now for its return (or atleast a bind option) and it would be awesome to get clarify here if we're going to see its return.
@dominousnolen
|
Iris Lurechia
SUPERFLUOUS WANDERLUST The-Culture
6
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 00:33:44 -
[623] - Quote
What's really bugging me is the lack of the old tracking camera. While before I could click that button and track all that I target automatically, now I have to hold ALT every time I click. This is making dscanning multiple sites & planets in FW space especially cumbersome. Please CCP put a tracking camera option into the system to save my putting a dead weight on the alt key.
Apologies if this has been mentioend already, but 30+ pages is a bit much to read through. |
Juhh
Exanimo Inc Northern Army
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 02:25:47 -
[624] - Quote
I think this open a new way. I enjoy this new camera thing. I like to control the ship and I find it useful. You can choose to charge on your enemy or approach in transverse. It will give you opportunity to change if you want.
What bugs me is every time if I click an open window like overview or select menu with my mouse while i control the ship, it lose the hot key. So i have to click back to space to be able to turn with my ship. The buttons what will let you move around should be always "on top" except when you are on the chat window.
It kills the fun when you in fight and click on overview to target and the ship will lose the orbit. And I will start to fly in to the trouble ( straight ). |
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
153
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 05:48:38 -
[625] - Quote
Iris Lurechia wrote:What's really bugging me is the lack of the old tracking camera. While before I could click that button and track all that I target automatically, now I have to hold ALT every time I click. This is making dscanning multiple sites & planets in FW space especially cumbersome. Please CCP put a tracking camera option into the system to save my putting a dead weight on the alt key.
Apologies if this has been mentioend already, but 30+ pages is a bit much to read through.
Toggle is now "Shift+C" to cycle it on.
@dominousnolen
|
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF Bad Intention
17
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 06:10:35 -
[626] - Quote
Dominous Nolen wrote:Iris Lurechia wrote:What's really bugging me is the lack of the old tracking camera. While before I could click that button and track all that I target automatically, now I have to hold ALT every time I click. This is making dscanning multiple sites & planets in FW space especially cumbersome. Please CCP put a tracking camera option into the system to save my putting a dead weight on the alt key.
Apologies if this has been mentioend already, but 30+ pages is a bit much to read through. Toggle is now "Shift+C" to cycle it on. Or since clicking was mentioned, you can right click the tracking button. |
Soltys
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
91
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 09:43:15 -
[627] - Quote
Dominous Nolen wrote:Any dev aside from Darwin able to comment on the tab situation?
Would love to know if we're going to get an explaination as to why the feature was removed without comment.
There seems to be a fair amount of user support on a few threads now for its return (or atleast a bind option) and it would be awesome to get clarify here if we're going to see its return.
Camera tuff aside, I'd want to know that too.
Jita Flipping Inc.: Solmp / Kovl
|
Tara Eves
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
33
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 12:17:39 -
[628] - Quote
Conjaq wrote: I get nausea using it.. Rendering it completely impossible to use.
THIS!
Please CCP, whatever you do, DO NOT disable the old camera - I even have all the camera shake and all that stuff disabled on the old camera because that made me feel sick.
By all means keep the new one for those that like it, but for those of us that don't have sea legs, please don't force us out.
|
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
327
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 16:35:58 -
[629] - Quote
I would like to politely point out to the developers, that an increased amount of options is not detrimental for your game. It is beneficial. An increased amount of options allows you to cater to more people playing. More people playing means more income, more content and more diversity. You please the old AND the new. A lot of options might "overwhelm" a new player, but really, why is that a bad thing? Eve overwhelms a new player on a lot of levels, but that is often a good thing. It's the excitement and wonder, sitting in a giant toy store, amazed by all the different things. Then you slowly make your way through it and manage to find what you like. That is quintessential to your game. The journey. There is no "journey" in narrowed down pathways and force-fed decisions.
To me, that is Eve. it is less of a sandbox, and more of a giant toy-store. Or rather, it was. Because Eve has taken a turn where certain shelves are empty now, and the variety decreased. Rooms are closed down to make the toy store smaller, and I wonder why and how, if there was no discernible downside to having more of it. Some toys have been replaced by low-quality products. They might look shinier, but their manufacturing quality is shoddy and they don't feel as good when played with. Other products have been removed because some clumsy kid managed to hurt itself when mis-using the toy. Thus the toy gets removed and the joy been taken away from everyone else who could play with it properly? That is not only senseless but also a very poor marketing strategy.
That is how it feels when you kill old options and/or bring in the mangled new ones. I talk about OPTIONS and USABILITY and not gameplay related content, don't confuse that. Some things you brute-forced on us have simply not been okay. Some of us went away because of it. Some of us just stopped actually playing the game and just sit in there chatting because we didn't want to lose contact to the people. I don't wonder. I also don't want to know how far the concurrent player counter would drop if you'd allow evegate to access your chats as long as you are subscribed. What I DO want to know is how it would really look like nowadays when you hadn't rushed so many things and if you hadn't made so many questionable decisions of half-hearted products.
Sure, having more options could mean you have to look out for more potential bugs, and have a greater amount of code that might get in the way of things but it's not always as bad like that. Because I am absolutely certain you could always reproduce any old features to the dot. I would like to believe that. Maybe because I'm optimistic! :D I just don't get why you are not reproducing the things first, and then go from there to improve based on feedback. A good example for that is the new map. The single best thing about the new map is, that I can switch it off. The few added functionalities (which has been coming in MONTHS after initial beta inception) do NOT justify me using a product that has greatly decreased performance and visibility. I dread the day when you disable the old map and old camera, while not having the new features up to par. Much like the huge mistake you did with opportunities.
While I enjoy the idea of getting rid of legacy code, the only reason I do is because I hope that the NEW code is being well documented and written better so that changes can be made easier.
But I have no guarantee if it actually IS an upgrade on the programmer's end :c I would really like to know about it. Not the ins-and-outs but just simple facts for me to digest. Because I can only talk about what I see ingame. And I see things that are everything but rosy.
I would like to enjoy more content of eve online. But I can't, since the User Interface and it's functionality keep pushing me away from that content. The recent direction of UI development pushes me away from enjoying to play the game. |
Felix Judge
Regnum Ludorum
33
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 21:43:06 -
[630] - Quote
oops.
So c-toggle is now possible.
Would be nicer, if more obvious. |
|
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
470
|
Posted - 2016.02.27 22:48:28 -
[631] - Quote
You can also right click on the orbit camera button. Not really any more obvious but useful if you've done a lot of keyboard remapping.
Daemun of Khanid
|
Ian Morbius
Potomac Greeting Card Company
293
|
Posted - 2016.02.27 23:17:57 -
[632] - Quote
The new camera is not much of an improvement over the old camera. In time, I guess it will be okay.
The o7 Show had a segment on the camera. Begins at 14:51.
o7: The EVE Online Show - Episode 14
Found it informative.
New Enterprise Associates The largest venture capital firm on the planet. They are great.
New Enterprise Associates (Wikipedia).
|
Lelira Cirim
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
276
|
Posted - 2016.02.28 09:17:35 -
[633] - Quote
Dominous Nolen wrote:As directed by CCP Darwin/CCP Support twitter posting feed back here in hopes the UI team will comment Original Reported thread >> Tab Not rolling windows Since January's patch (maybe even back into December) the minimize function of the double tap tab feature no longer works (I'm sure it can be rebound, but....)
Seems like the worst place for signal:noise ratio, but whatever.
I /bugged the Tab key change the first time I encountered it. It's that ingrained.
I'm baffled to explain the decision to remove the functionality of a "confusing keybind" rather than simply UNSET THE KEYBIND by default. You know... addressing the complaint without causing a hundred more complaints.
I know that sounds crazy, but hear me out...
Sometimes you don't have to refactor :legacycode:. You can actually stick a bandaid on a problem and appease everyone. The bandaid is called "choice". When that actually happens... run with it!
Do not actively tank my patience.
|
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
331
|
Posted - 2016.02.29 02:45:03 -
[634] - Quote
Lelira Cirim wrote:I'm baffled to explain the decision to "remove the functionality" of a "confusing keybind" rather than simply UNSET THE KEYBIND by default. You know... addressing the complaint without causing a hundred more complaints. Exactly... it is so ... so otherworldly. That's how out there it is. I guess there a lot of sayings that go like "not seeing the forest from all the trees" or something like that.
I've submitted a support ticket about the matter recently. You know, hard data and proper customer feedback. |
Kblackjack54
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
135
|
Posted - 2016.03.03 11:55:40 -
[635] - Quote
Looked at the So called all singing and dancing NEW camera set up for all of 30 seconds, realised it was not fit for purpose and reverted back the old set up, which at the time worked.
Since then Apart from the ever extending 'Black Screen' issue, and yes it's still there CCP and getting worse for a lot of players, Another issue started to creep in, That when you undock you were left staring at the image 'From the inside of your ship' only resolved by scrolling out each and every time you undock.
Tried all sorts of visual positions and ranges on docking to see if that effects the undock situation and nothing seems to make the slightest difference, Your left staring backwards though the thruster animation at the station and this seems to be the default situation.
If this is an attempt by CCP to force players to use the new set up it's in pretty poor taste to be honest, Force never achieved anything except lost accounts. |
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
156
|
Posted - 2016.03.03 15:24:00 -
[636] - Quote
Starting to notice the orbit camera when highlighted on something with the ALT+Click like a pod or ship (Occurring in PVP and PVE) once destroyed will lock on a solid coloured screen with my overview windows up and not allow for adjustment for several seconds to minutes at a time.
I have a record of it. I will just need to find it and upload it for review
@dominousnolen
|
Buzz Orti
State War Academy Caldari State
178
|
Posted - 2016.03.04 00:12:48 -
[637] - Quote
Dominous Nolen wrote:Starting to notice the orbit camera when highlighted on something with the ALT+Click like a pod or ship (Occurring in PVP and PVE) once destroyed will lock on a solid coloured screen with my overview windows up and not allow for adjustment for several seconds to minutes at a time.
I have a record of it. I will just need to find it and upload it for review I had worst problem until I found it's the middle button on the right or second one from top of 4 that fixes the cam on ship. I also found a way to do it with look at. But I don't really know what I am doing yet, as I don't know the command yet. Maybe there is a way to fix this in the key binding menu(s).
Builds ship in empty Quafe bottle.
|
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
158
|
Posted - 2016.03.06 08:25:45 -
[638] - Quote
Feature request: New Camera - Place the ability to have the custom camera position back in for the orbit camera mode. I rather like be able to offen my camera so its not looking right at the hull.
@dominousnolen
|
Sgt Ocker
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
838
|
Posted - 2016.03.06 09:19:36 -
[639] - Quote
Whats with the not being able to pan the camera while in warp?
Is this intentional, how do I turn it off - broken, please fix it - or just an unknown thing that occurs way too often?
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
|
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
159
|
Posted - 2016.03.07 04:08:10 -
[640] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Whats with the not being able to pan the camera while in warp?
Is this intentional, how do I turn it off - broken, please fix it - or just an unknown thing that occurs way too often?
What mode? I haven't run into that with the orbit camera, I never turn on the tactical
@dominousnolen
|
|
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
160
|
Posted - 2016.03.07 06:51:19 -
[641] - Quote
As previously requested multiple times in this thread.
Give us a toggle to turn off the ambient noise on the tactical camera.
Allow us to turn it off, don't just turn it down in the software.
@dominousnolen
|
Sgt Ocker
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
841
|
Posted - 2016.03.08 11:02:00 -
[642] - Quote
Dominous Nolen wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:Whats with the not being able to pan the camera while in warp?
Is this intentional, how do I turn it off - broken, please fix it - or just an unknown thing that occurs way too often? What mode? I haven't run into that with the orbit camera, I never turn on the tactical Orbit mode - Don't use tactical, that noise is just too much and first person is a nice gimmick but has no practical use. Like tactical it needs to have a toggle, noise off, gimmick mode off.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
|
Sergey Hawk
The Sith Syndicate REFORD
9
|
Posted - 2016.03.08 13:10:40 -
[643] - Quote
Today after update i again tried a new camera. My eyes allow me only 10 minutes of testing. 1. As in the previous test, zoom is totally unresponsive. and and also often zoom level continues to reset without cause. 2. Because of your stupid decision to move pivot point somewhere in space my ship continues to hide behind the channels of scanners windows. No frequently as before, but it's still very annoying. 3. Still stars have motion blur when the camera rotates or shakes. My eyes can not withstand such tortures. I can set camera speed to 4x and this removes blur but camera speed is too fast for a comfortable flight. 4. Still no custom tracking position.
So i again turn off this new crappy camera [capslock] OLD CAMERA MUCH BETTER FOR FLYING AND COMBAT [/capslock]
I'll just quote my old message when CCP tried to improve old camera movement and now they are jumping on the same rake.
Quote:Every time I see a record about improving the tracking camera I want to hit the developers with something heavy.
I don't understand why CCP made this freaking flying camera for simple rotation by three points. We have 3 point: 1st point our ship (center of rotation), 2nd point current tracking position and 3rd point new tracking position. This creates a simple 3d angle and all we need is to rotate camera relative to our ship on that 3d angle as fast as posible without camera pirouette and aerobatic maneuvers. That's how rotating the camera works in desing and CAD softwares and you don't need to invent the wheel
Truly it is very annoying, when the simple angle something about 15-¦ and easiest way to move camera is move in a straight line, but instead, the camera starts to perform a inside loop with the speed of a turtle in absolutely wrong direction.
May the Force be with You
|
|
CCP Turtlepower
C C P C C P Alliance
335
|
Posted - 2016.03.08 13:39:59 -
[644] - Quote
Sergey Hawk wrote:Today after update i again tried a new camera.
Thanks for trying the new camera out! Unfortunately the release we planned on patching today was delayed so all of our camera improvements have still not hit tranquility. We will hopefully be able to release these changes tomorrow. Sorry about the delay!
Fly safe CCP Turtlepower |
|
Sergey Hawk
The Sith Syndicate REFORD
9
|
Posted - 2016.03.08 13:54:45 -
[645] - Quote
Will test again tomorrow. I hope you come up with how to remove stars motion blur
May the Force be with You
|
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
480
|
Posted - 2016.03.08 16:42:00 -
[646] - Quote
I've seen ppl mention motion blur in a couple of different places but I don't see any kind of motion blur. Not on live or on the test server.
I'm wondering though if there's any change planned to the ship bobbing in station that is currently in effect on the test server? It happens independent of the "camera bobbing" setting and it is extremely nauseating/distracting. The ship goes up....and down.... and up.....and down.... Like a riding over waves in a boat. It's currently only happening on the test server so I presume it's a new "feature". The effect is more noticeable in smaller ships and I find it far more nausea inducing than any of the other new camera effects that were previously discussed.
My first reaction was that I'd just disable the station environment option and get a static image to solve the problem for myself but if anyone doesn't know already, the "render station environment" option has also been removed. No point complaining about the station environment option, CCP have already explained the decision and it's necessity in the appropriate thread.
I will say that otherwise I find the new camera in it's current state on the test server perfectly acceptable. There may be some issues or bugs that ppl find here or there but I'm not having any problems with it functionally at this point. In fact I've grown quite accustomed to it and I prefer it over the old camera. (Just remove that ship bobbing in station or I'm gonna need a barf bag by my desk every time I dock up)
Daemun of Khanid
|
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
163
|
Posted - 2016.03.08 17:15:34 -
[647] - Quote
Turtlepower - Can you comment on the loss of the tab function, please?
@dominousnolen
|
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF Bad Intention
35
|
Posted - 2016.03.08 17:42:26 -
[648] - Quote
Sergey Hawk wrote:Will test again tomorrow. I hope you come up with how to remove stars motion blur It probably won't be updated tomorrow either. There were some major issues they have to fix, so it'll probably be a few days. |
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
164
|
Posted - 2016.03.08 18:05:51 -
[649] - Quote
Sergey Hawk wrote:Will test again tomorrow. I hope you come up with how to remove stars motion blur
Have you tried turning off the dynamic FOV setting in the graphics tab? I found that once I unchecked it my problems with the new camera seemed to have subsided.
I have tried the new camera on SISI and it's greatly improved in terms of responsiveness with the camera set to a stiffer setting.
@dominousnolen
|
Sergey Hawk
The Sith Syndicate REFORD
9
|
Posted - 2016.03.09 07:33:09 -
[650] - Quote
Quote:Have you tried turning off the dynamic FOV setting in the graphics tab? I found that once I unchecked it my problems with the new camera seemed to have subsided in regards to motion sickness.
yes, i tried to turn off dynamic fov and bobbing and shaking but for my eyes it does not help
May the Force be with You
|
|
Buzz Orti
State War Academy Caldari State
211
|
Posted - 2016.03.09 07:37:49 -
[651] - Quote
I had to use Alt+1 , then Alt+2, to fix the cam while it was stuck.
Alt+1 is the command of the icon above the cam orbit around the ship. (It's the top right icon.) It launches a tactical cam with focus on a distant area for general view of the space.
Alt+2 is the cam orbit around the ship default setting, 1 of 3 or so, of the second icon on the right, from the top.
Builds ship in empty Quafe bottle.
|
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33432
|
Posted - 2016.03.09 09:30:36 -
[652] - Quote
I'm constantly using Alt+1 to reset the camera, and there are a couple other things that make camera controls worse:
Ctrl+drag targeting marquee sometimes activates erroneously, in fact if it activates at all it wasn't my doing--I don't use it. So instead of swiveling the camera, I draw a box in space. This sometimes targets something like a gate, or nothing, and it's never useful.
Pan camera (right-click) sometimes activates erroneously, almost imperceptibly. I wouldn't notice the slight offset at all if it wasn't for my ship suddenly leaving me behind in space.
Awareness is really bad and has been bad for so long that I just compensate for it, I guess. I'm talking about the level of awareness that includes correlating overview items with an icon in space to get its telemetry data, like speed.
And basic ship size. I still haven't become familiar with icons enough to identify them quickly like I used to with small, medium, and large squares for frigates, cruisers, and battleships. That's a big one. It's been about a year since they were introduced, right?
You need to stop putting everything in the 2D flat sprite layer and start putting things in the 3D environment, in the same layer as the range overlay.
This is so bad
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
|
|
CCP Turtlepower
C C P C C P Alliance
336
|
Posted - 2016.03.09 10:02:36 -
[653] - Quote
Sergey Hawk wrote:I hope you come up with how to remove stars motion blur You mean that the stars in the background become blurry? Could you maybe try toggling all the camera settings, or changing the Graphic Content Settings (right side of the Esc menu), and seeing if any of those can reduce this effect?
Daemun Khanid wrote:I'm wondering though if there's any change planned to the ship bobbing in station that is currently in effect on the test server? This is a defect, we will fix it as soon as possible.
Dominous Nolen wrote:Turtlepower - Can you comment on the loss of the tab function, please? We are aware of this issue and hope to fix it soon, most likely as a bindable hotkey.
CCP Turtlepower |
|
Buzz Orti
State War Academy Caldari State
213
|
Posted - 2016.03.09 10:46:11 -
[654] - Quote
display error, not bug, not camera locked subject:
the fitting tool saving routine leaves the save box and titles opened after saving.
I mean, sure it works, but only once since the last change has it been closing after saving , as it used to be before the last change.
This only once time was the last time that I used the saving function on the fitting tool...
This led me to save multiple instances of the same fit, which I quickly deleted.
However, this used to be an automated part of the program, and is intended to work that way.
It's like if the command for the input field was hidden...
Builds ship in empty Quafe bottle.
|
Sergey Hawk
The Sith Syndicate REFORD
9
|
Posted - 2016.03.09 12:10:57 -
[655] - Quote
Quote:You mean that the stars in the background become blurry? Could you maybe try toggling all the camera settings, or changing the Graphic Content Settings (right side of the Esc menu), and seeing if any of those can reduce this effect? Exactly I think old camera have some blur on stars too, but I almost do not notice it. With the new camera eyes begin to tire very quickly. In my case, only increasing the speed of camera to very high helps to reduce blur effect. But with such high camera speed I just can not rotate the camera. Graphics settings set to max and reducing setting do nothing with blur except lowering graphic quality.
I am updating my client and continue testing
May the Force be with You
|
|
CCP Turtlepower
C C P C C P Alliance
336
|
Posted - 2016.03.09 14:01:01 -
[656] - Quote
We have created a new camera feedback thread! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6383848#post6383848
See you all there CCP Turtlepower |
|
Sergey Hawk
The Sith Syndicate REFORD
9
|
Posted - 2016.03.09 14:31:54 -
[657] - Quote
Ok. after update i turned off only one option: Dynamic Center Offset and this helped. Zoom is now more responsive and I did not notice a blur of stars. But without custom tracking position I see no reason to use a new camera. Without dynamic center offset new camera like the old one with centered tracking position and nothing more. Because of my windows arrangement I need to make my ship flew like in the screenshot. My ship is fixed point of rotation and sun is custom tracking position http://i.imgur.com/HKEJFeP.jpg for now with new camera this is impossible
May the Force be with You
|
Buzz Orti
State War Academy Caldari State
213
|
Posted - 2016.03.09 18:15:15 -
[658] - Quote
I'd think this is something handled by the VRAM (or video RAM).
Mine currently only is of 1 GB of VRAM (or 1 GB DDR3 RAM on the video card).
However, I do have a second video card with 2 GB of VRAM which didn't fit in the computer case. The first video card has a low profile feature, which lets it be inserted in a reduced space. Low profile means that it can be configured to fit in less space than a normal computer case has.
Furthermore, the second card can now be used for a future 4+ GB RAM laptop, with an external video card adapter. Even though the card is bigger and only has a larger connection than the 1 GB VRAM (or DDR3 RAM) is, the external video card adapter I found can also run with power as a power supply .
I hope this will further help to run multiple devices and keep the camera program running with ease.
Builds ship in empty Quafe bottle.
|
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
338
|
Posted - 2016.03.10 10:02:04 -
[659] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Dominous Nolen wrote:Turtlepower - Can you comment on the loss of the tab function, please? We are aware of this issue and hope to fix it soon, most likely as a bindable hotkey. CCP Turtlepower That is much appreciated, thank you c: To be more realistic though, I hope to see that change in a reasonable amount of time before people lose their faith and interest again. If you manage to do it before (or at) the next expansion, I'm sure you will be getting some surprised and positive reactions. |
Arya Wiles
EVE University Ivy League
0
|
Posted - 2016.03.24 20:43:55 -
[660] - Quote
I have always had the tracking camera on with the custom tracking location in my screen. I want this for everything I click on, and to have to hold a hot key down for every click is an inexcusable pain is the ass. I understand all the cinematic affects stuff, but if useful quality of life tools are removed, I will have to quit the game. |
|
Soldarius
O C C U P Y Test Alliance Please Ignore
1486
|
Posted - 2016.03.25 13:36:53 -
[661] - Quote
Having tried and reviewed the original new camera iteration attempt on sisi, I have to say that pretty much every issue I had with it has been resolved. Every mode is useful in some way.
I like it. Well done.
Arya Wiles wrote:I have always had the tracking camera on with the custom tracking location in my screen. I want this for everything I click on, and to have to hold a hot key down for every click is an inexcusable pain is the ass. I understand all the cinematic affects stuff, but if useful quality of life tools are removed, I will have to quit the game.
In the unlikely event you actually do quit, can I have your stuff?
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
|
Bianca Niam
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
27
|
Posted - 2016.03.31 01:04:42 -
[662] - Quote
Hate the mouse acceleration in the new camera. Switching to the old one and staying there. |
Cat Harkness
Twilight Labs Elemental Tide
42
|
Posted - 2016.03.31 01:38:19 -
[663] - Quote
Bianca Niam wrote:Hate the mouse acceleration in the new camera. Switching to the old one and staying there.
Not for long....
Cat Harkness
CEO
Twilight Labs
|
Soltys
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
119
|
Posted - 2016.03.31 09:21:26 -
[664] - Quote
Regarding acceleration, CCP come on - slider. And everyone would happy.
Why do you keep hating options ....
Jita Flipping Inc.: Solmp / Kovl
|
Albert Madullier
Black Omega Security The OSS
49
|
Posted - 2016.04.05 23:30:50 -
[665] - Quote
Is there any word on getting the proper 21:9 fov back for the new camera that was removed in the March release? |
Xiantra
1
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 05:03:58 -
[666] - Quote
So I've just spent a few hours playing with the camera modes and studying the CCP posted video to try and understand the new camera system. I can't compare it to the old camera because, even after years of play, I never sat down and learned that one, but I do have some comments about the "present" system (yes the try new camera check box is set). Unfortunately, because of the multiple modes and dramatically different operation in each mode, the (new) camera makes very little sense and is very frustrating to use. I ran across many inconsistencies and or out right bugs. Given the present system, I have zero confidence that when I need to examine, lookat, or track something quickly that I will be able to do so. I'll try here to list some of the specific problems I had:
1) First off, I've disabled the radial menu completely (assigned it to an event that my mouse+keyboard can't generate). For all the years I've been in the game this feature has been most frustrating as *instinctively* we can't tell when or if it will appear. Sure it is *conceptually* simple (it only appears when the cursor is over a large stationary object), but in game play, since the screen can sometimes be completely filled with an LSO, there are times when it is impossible to pivot the camera without zooming way out first. %99 of the time left-click-hold always pivots the camera so we get used to the pivot control, but then we are when too close to an object, pivot doesn't work. This is an example of an *inconsistent* interface and it *should be* the bane of UI/UX designers. Left-click-hold should **always** pivot the camera - the times when it does not are BUGS.
2) The first person camera is a perfect example of the EVE UI breaking sensible UX rules. Left-click-hold should pivot the camera about the cockpit 1st-person perspective - but it doesn't. If the need to reset forward is important, then Alt-3 (while already in first person mode) could do this, but we should be able to look left, right, up, down, or backwards just like the orbit camera. Maybe then the 1st person isn't needed at all - maybe zooming all the way into an object could cause the cross-hairs to appear, and pressing Alt-2 (while already in orbit cam mode and zoomed completely in) re-centers the camera forward? Maybe we only need two camera modes - your call on that one.
3) Selecting objects/ships is another inconsistent action. Hold-alt-select, Hold-C-select, Hold-T-select, etc. are all reasonable ways to select the operation to perform immediately on the object under the cursor (be it either on screen or, in the overview list, the map beta, or solar system browser). But this should also work regardless of which camera mode is being used (currently the tactical camera ignores most all of these) AND the selection *should hold* even if the camera mode is changed!
4) I frequently found I needed to click in blank space somewhere to make a new selection work. This should be considered a BUG - if there is some obscure mode that has been activated then it needs to be re-though and removed. Every click on an object should act the same.
5) Left clicking on things frequently doesn't do anything!! This is one of the most fatal UI/UX flaws - when users do not get an immediate acknowledgement of straight forward UI event, they loose trust and confidence in the entire UI. This is fundamentally important - yet even Windows 8,9,10 fail at this for some unfathomable reason. I understand that tracking a ship once it has entered warp maybe has become a game-play balance issue, that is fine. But not doing *anything* when clicking on a ship which is clearly visible on the screen or in the overview is a serious problem.
6) The tactical camera seems to be the biggest violator of UI rules. The attached/detached mode is confusing. Where is the indicator about to what we are attached? Right-click-drag to detach (and moves the camera??!) makes no sense what so ever. Left-click-hold now drags a window over a group of targets (sometimes) instead of pivoting the camera. Hold-C-drag-group doesn't select anything, nor does Hold-alt-drag-group or Hold-T ... ??? Pick the nearest object if only one should be selected, but make the UI consistent. Now, I think drag-group-to-target is fabulous, and this feature makes the entire drag-group concept worth the trouble BUT not via a left-click. Drag-to-group should be assigned to a Right-click. And Right-click-drag-to-group SHOULD also work in both the 1st person and orbit camera modes as well. ------ Actually, let me throw this out: left-click-hold maybe *shouldn't* move the camera. Maybe Right-click-hold should always move the camera (in every camera mode). This way left-click-hold can always drag-select just the way all windowing UIs currently do. This would likely be the very best way to fix the UI.
7) The zoom to cursor which is currently only available with the "detached" tactical camera mode, is actually reasonably decent UI for *moving the camera location* around in a 3D space (a difficult problem with any 3D UI) BUT the problem here is that it is very different from the orbit (and hopefully soon the 1st person) camera, as well as the galaxy map browser. The concept of "click on something to base your camera location" - or "lookat" something - is a better and more intuitive way of moving the camera location, and should probably be used in the tactical camera at all times. There should really only be one way to move the camera location throughout the game.
8) Alt-zoom is another problem. Two different zoom modes (dolly & lens) make sense to movie producers, but I'm not so sure it does for average users. Although changing the camera field of view is useful, attaching this to Left-alt is confusing (Left-alt may already be held to lookat objects - thus zoom will work differently when not intended). I suggest to hold the 'back' key to alter the zoom mode.
Hope this helps...
|
Dominous Nolen
We're Happy In Wormhole Space
183
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 14:10:46 -
[667] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote: We are aware of this issue and hope to fix it soon, most likely as a bindable hotkey.
CCP Turtlepower
Turtlepower - Are there are updates on the restoration of the function?
@dominousnolen
|
Samuel Wess
Missions Union Happy Cartel
88
|
Posted - 2016.05.02 11:20:35 -
[668] - Quote
I am really impressed with the new scan button on the left side of the window, this feels like playing with my left hand now. Brilliant decision.
Walk into the club like "What up? I got a big cockpit!"
|
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1851
|
Posted - 2016.05.03 16:12:09 -
[669] - Quote
There are still a couple of issues making the new camera very undesirable to the extent that i will not undock at any point if it is made compulsory in the current form.
- New camera still requires 4x the mouse input to look up and down as it does to look left or right. That makes it completely unfit for my purposes as the primary input method for manually piloting.
- New camera zoom is still far too fast for ratchet-less scroll wheel mice.
Give the option to have up and down the same speed as left and right as per the old camera.
Give the option to adjust the speed of the zoom. Being able to turn off the delay / accelration of the zoom would be very nice too, |
Idame Isqua
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
30
|
Posted - 2016.05.05 09:03:16 -
[670] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:There are still a couple of issues making the new camera very undesirable to the extent that i will not undock at any point if it is made compulsory in the current form.
- New camera still requires 4x the mouse input to look up and down as it does to look left or right. That makes it completely unfit for my purposes as the primary input method for manually piloting.
- New camera zoom is still far too fast for ratchet-less scroll wheel mice.
Give the option to have up and down the same speed as left and right as per the old camera.
Give the option to adjust the speed of the zoom. Being able to turn off the delay / acceleration of the zoom would be very nice too,
To me it seems like the team got so obsessed with polish that they forgot some of the basics of what makes the current camera work.
Pretty sure mine has equal axis
Zooming in and out is fine on ratchet less my mouse can do both but I play eve with ratchet
Issues I still have If I look at something the camera does into dumb mode If I look at something please make it default to auto tracking my own ship IF I have autotracking on In missions with really slow rats the camera dosn't even remain on the ship I'm looking at, it remains stationary as the NPC drifts away (AND it dosn't track it
People with autotracking on expect functionality from their camera
|
|
Dominous Nolen
We're Happy In Wormhole Space
185
|
Posted - 2016.05.31 16:06:16 -
[671] - Quote
I'm going to reask this again because, it's apparently been lost in the shuffle.
Where is the custom tracking position for the camera? You guys took away the old camera and the new one its not feature parity to the one you've axed.
we use to be able to set a custom placement for camera rather then right smack behind the ship.
CCP give custom tracking position.
@dominousnolen
|
Sergey Hawk
The Sith Syndicate REFORD
33
|
Posted - 2016.06.01 18:59:05 -
[672] - Quote
Sergey Hawk wrote:CCP really disappoint me. New camera is a peace of ****! You turned off the old camera but does not fix the new camera. New camera is a step backward.
- Camera with Dynamic Center Offset On and Off has a different zoom sensitivity. When Dynamic Center Offset option is enabled zoom speed is ultra fast. For a few notches on the wheel my ship turn into small marker.
- X, Y axis for camera rotation has different sensitivity. Many times people have written about it. And nothing fixed.
- Unnecessary intermediate camera centering before starting rotation not removed.
- Where is my Custom tracking position for camera without Dynamic Center Offset??????????
You can't fix simple thing and add simple features in your super-duper new cam but can disable old cam, which works much better than new.
just copy-paste from another topic
Lauda about CCP New camera:
It's a sh.tbox! It zooms like crazy and centering before rotation is a disaster. It's amazing - all these dev teams, and you make a piece of crap like this.
|
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1929
|
Posted - 2016.06.01 19:08:25 -
[673] - Quote
Idame Isqua wrote: Pretty sure mine has equal axis
It doesnt though.
Draw a circle with your mouse pointer on your screen. Pay close attention to how far you pan left and right, and how little you pan up and down during that circle. |
Irrebo Hester
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 14:56:12 -
[674] - Quote
Pretty sure this has been allready posted but here it goes again:
Make an option to turn the Mouse Acceleration for the "new camera" OFF.
And by mouse acceleration i mean the faster you move the mouse, the faster the camera moves. Also just make it stop after i stop my mouse movement.
This is NOT a 3d movie or a console FPS. Please stop fecking the game with this nausea-inducing bullcrap.
Also, if in the future the same is gonna happen with the new scan interface, just fire the whole design team for this, i can't even start on how anti-functional that is too.
Soo much eye candy yet so little brains to this its like you're making a movie not a game. |
Sergey Hawk
The Sith Syndicate REFORD
39
|
Posted - 2016.06.25 18:08:07 -
[675] - Quote
What updates planned for the camera with June 28 update? Maybe you will add Custom tracking position or fix ultra fast zoom? What will CCP do?
Lauda about CCP New camera:
It's a sh.tbox! It zooms like crazy and centering before rotation is a disaster. It's amazing - all these dev teams, and you make a piece of crap like this.
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 23 :: [one page] |