| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 [17] 18 19 20 .. 23 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
27164
   |
Posted - 2016.02.16 15:58:05 -
[481] - Quote
Pix Severus wrote:CCP Turtlepower wrote:Quick update:
Old D-Scan is broken, but we have it fixed internally already, and a fix going out ASAP.
We realize the results list is populating too slowly, we will improve that ASAP as well.
Are you going to bring the server down for this today? I literally cannot play EVE right now.
Just a bit more rant-spam to get this point across.
I don't know if the UI team fully grasps this: ships live and die by the UI. As in: if the UI isn't fast and efficient, ships are lost for no reason other than that the UI is bad. People who don't want to lose ships (either their own or missing out on a target) really can't play the game if this stuff isn't working.
I understand that you guys in the UI team get screamed at a lot, but this is why: you are modifying one of the most critical components of the entire game. People have quite literally spent years building up methods and muscle memory to become fast at this in order to either catch or avoid an opponent that is doing their best to reverse the situation. If (more likely when) you change things up so that training no longer works, people get annoyed, but at least they can learn. When you change things so that functionality is lost GÇö when stuff no longer works GÇö people get properly, and entirely rightfully, upset because there's no coming back from that.
A camera that doesn't show what the user wants to see is useless. A camera that tries to guess what should be shown based on what a developer thinks looks neat is worse than useless. A camera that suddenly requires the user to jump through hoops to do something it did in a single button press or mouse sweep is as close to useless as to make no difference. The change from a working state to a missing one is an inherently bad change, and it is entirely irrelevant how much better the underlying code is because the code is not what players use to play the game.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
|
Gargantua Austrene
Catastrophic Breakthrough.
ADPT Nation
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 15:58:35 -
[482] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Old D-Scan is now fixed on Tranquility. If you are affected, you will need to restart your client and launcher to get the fix.
Once again, sorry about the inconvenience.
CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
it still doesnt work for me |
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
427
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:05:19 -
[483] - Quote
From what I can see right now I'm starting to get a little more comfortable with the new camera. Having the tracking toggle is a big improvement. For those not aware you can also right click on the orbit camera button and toggle the tracking mode.
Just a few things though,
1. I know you added the "hold v" click thing that automatically dscans what you select. Currently when the tracking camera toggle is enabled it also automatically runs a scan whenever you select and object from the over view. Even without using the "hold V" short cut. This is fine with me thus far. I haven't come up with any scenarios in my head where this could cause any issues and actually reduces the need to refresh dscan for every celestial you're trying to scan down. I'm just curious if it's intentional or not. If so I think it's good and a step in the right direction for reducing input requirements and efficiency. If not... pls don't fix it. 
2. The Dscan population fade in isn't actually so bad. I don't know if you've already increased the speed at which it happens since the initial patch but I think it's fast enough that it doesn't really cause any concern. "Just" fast enough but fast enough.
3. PLEASE remove the camera offset when using tracking camera give it an on/off option or at least tie it to the speed shift offset option so we can turn it off. As I illustrated with my earlier screen shot and video that offset completely obscures my ship behind windows.
# 3 alone is what is keeping me from keeping the new camera enabled right now. It also contributes to vertigo sensations which although it hasn't greatly effected me yet, (don't know if it will over longer use as I haven't been able to use the new camera long enough to find out due to functionality) removing that drift/offset may help remove some of the motion sick problems others have as well.
Thanks for a good start to tues patch with these improvements and for listening to our feed back thus far. I think maybe by mar 9th we'll be good to go with the new camera if you just finish off these last few issues.
Daemun of Khanid
|
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
1595
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:08:41 -
[484] - Quote
I've said it before (likely in this thread) and I'll say it again.
If you're working on the UI in EVE, look, we get it. You want it to look pretty like the rest of the game. That's cool.
But you're doing so at the expense of core functionality, every. Goddamn. Time.
The beta starmap. Still missing core functionality from the original map.
Beta camera. Still missing core functionality from the original camera.
This new d-scan animation? Outright removes core functionality from the tool.
Function over form. Function over form. Function over form. Repeat it until it sinks in, or this cycle of UI tweaks followed by supernovas of player rage will not end.
Morwen Lagann
CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar
Owner, The Golden Masque
|
Niriel Greez
Pwn 'N Play
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
51
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:17:57 -
[485] - Quote
The thing is, we don't /WANT/ a fade-in. Just make it refresh instantly. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1969
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:21:25 -
[486] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:
Sorry about that, I should have worded that differently. I meant that the list BEGINS to populate instantly. This is quicker than in the old camera because you don't have to wait for the camera to move first before it populates.
CCP Turtlepower
What, exactly, was the rationale behind this?
I'm generally pretty quick to defend the various UI changes you guys make. Many of them need polish, but I can see the potential.
I feel confident in saying that this is something nobody wants, nobody has ever wanted, and nobody will ever want.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
|
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
428
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:23:34 -
[487] - Quote
Oh my, never mind. I can see what's happening w my dscan refreshing every time now. I socket closed before so wasn't able to finish testing it out.
When the Dscan refreshed key is pressed it basically toggles it on. So then you can sit there and click down items in the overview and click each one and get a scan result without hit the dscan refresh key every time.
The BIG problem with this is that now lets say you're sitting in a FW complex with dscan set to 360 deg and 1au. This for anyone who doesn't FW is how you watch your gate on the outside to see if anyone is coming in after you. Previously you would just sit there and spam the dscan refresh key to keep your dscan updated to see what's outside. With the Dscan refresh key being taken over by this new tracking camera function you can't do that any more. It just keeps toggling the tracking cam dscan on and off. VERY not good.
1. Seperate this new function from the dscan refresh function. We NEED a plain jane vanilla Dscan refresh function. This is not optional. Sorry to seem demanding but taking away something as basic as a dscan refresh shortcut is just silly. There's literally zero reason to map it to the same key as the old dscan refresh.
2. The (I'm calling it autoscan scan) toggle might be nice for some ppl but I think it would be a much better idea to make it so that it functions as a "hold" key. So that instead of pressing the key once and then being able to go down the overview list getting dscan results you have to hold that key (which better not be the same as the dscan refresh key btw) and then it will automatically refresh dscan for each item selected.
The biggest reason for this is that once pressed you lose the ability to manually rotate the camera. It was quite a shock to me when I pressed the dscan key and dscanned a few things then tried to rotate the view and nothing would pop up but a marquee box. There was a moment of panic there that the camera was completely broken before I figured out to hit the dscan key again to toggle it off and reenable the camera controls. If left as is it's gonna result in ship reimbursement tickets from people pressing that key during or right before a fight, then panicking because they cant get their camera to function and ending up dead..
Bolded for importance. Thats a VERY bad effect.
Daemun of Khanid
|
RuriHoshino
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
16
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:23:53 -
[488] - Quote
Morwen Lagann wrote:I've said it before (likely in this thread) and I'll say it again.
If you're working on the UI in EVE, look, we get it. You want it to look pretty like the rest of the game. That's cool.
But you're doing so at the expense of core functionality, every. Goddamn. Time.
The beta starmap. Still missing core functionality from the original map.
Beta camera. Still missing core functionality from the original camera.
This new d-scan animation? Outright removes core functionality from the tool.
Function over form. Function over form. Function over form. Repeat it until it sinks in, or this cycle of UI tweaks followed by supernovas of player rage will not end.
Not empty quoting. Stop trying to fix things that were perfectly functional. |
Ashterothi
Aideron Robotics
362
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:24:16 -
[489] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:Manic Velocity wrote:CCP Turtlepower wrote: the results are populated instantly in the D-scan window. This is so obviously not the case. The very first thing I noticed is the delayed, line-by-line output of the scan results. Sorry about that, I should have worded that differently. I meant that the list BEGINS to populate instantly. This is quicker than in the old camera because you don't have to wait for the camera to move first before it populates. CCP Turtlepower
This statement assumes I am not already pointed at a target. I spend a lot of time "watching" a location with D-scan. What this does is add additional confusion to those d-scans.
I get the desire to nerf dscan, but I just don't think this is a very elegant solution.
Listen to Hydrostatic Podcast for all your Empyrean needs!
|
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
428
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:27:19 -
[490] - Quote
Kazi Kugisa wrote:Scotsman Howard wrote:For those of us at work and have not had time to test this yet, can someone please give me a basic idea of how a couple of these things are working right now?
toggle tracking camera" - Does this mean you can turn it on or off like the old camera's "focus on selected item" option (or whatever it was actually called)? It sounds like the center of the focus is off from some of the other comments, but it is at least a start. Does this toggle last session to session, system to system, etc.? or does it need to be re-toggled every time?
D-scan hotkey (V + Click) - How exactly is this different other than adding a click? Did they not add a d-scan hotkey option a while ago that does not involve a click?
Thanks for the help understanding what is happening. On the D-scan, you have to keep the V key held down while clicking the object at the same time. If it was press V and then click, I would be cool with it. I could map it to a mousebutton, like I do with the D-Scan hotkey. I can't map a continuous press. So now my only typing hand is tied to the V key the entire time I try to go through a list of celestials.
I don't know if this was something they changed since the initial patch this morning but it is now how things are working for me. If I press "V" (K for my remap) it toggles the auto dscan to on and then I can click as many things on overview as I want and get a fresh dscan for each. I know this is something you said would be good but it is not. See my previous post for reasons why.
Daemun of Khanid
|
|
|
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1969
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:32:12 -
[491] - Quote
Also, as an aside, this change was communicated in a uniquely ****-poor fashion.
It almost seems a deliberate omission.
CCP Turtlepower wrote:- Added tracking camera toggle (enable with Shift + C) to the Orbit mode
- Added a new way to D-Scan: hold V and click (V can be changed to other keys via the settings menu).
How do you fail to mention that, oh, by the way, "We've made D-Scan results populate line by line, and it's so slow that the scan refresh will complete before a large list fully populates." That's a pretty glaring omission.
It also wasn't mentioned in the previous post about the Hold-V addition being made on SiSi.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
|
Onamata Poeia
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:39:56 -
[492] - Quote
Tippia wrote:
The following stuff still needs to be fixed:
GÇó Tracking camera does not track GÇö it GÇ£looksGÇ¥.
By this I mean that the tracking camera puts the target in focus, rather than show your ship and the target in relation to that ship. It behaves as a very clumsy and pointless way to do what you used to do with the old GÇ£look -> set as parent -> set as targetGÇ¥ advanced camera combo. No-one particularly used that because it had no real gameplay use (it made for good video fodder, but that's something unrelated and largely irrelevant that doesn't need its own camera mode).
The tracking camera needs to work like the old tracking camera: your ship in the middle (or at an adjustable offset); the target kept on-screen at an adjustable position; no camera tricks (no FoV or zoom or anything) other than rotating to ensure that both positions are on-screen and as close to their set-up points as possible. Otherwise, it becomes somewhere between pointless or just outright unintuitive for anything related to navigation, scanning, or actuallyGǪ you knowGǪ tracking a target.
GÇó Look camera does not look GÇö it follows/does a fly-by
Looking at a target should do only exactly that: it puts the target at the centre of the screen; everything else works as normal in relation to this new focus object. No automated camera movement; no automated adjustments; nothing except what the user does to the camera (manually adjusting slew, zoom, FoV etc). At the moment, you constantly have to fight the camera's automation to be able to analyse details of the target object, which means it is largely pointless forGǪ you knowGǪ looking at a target.
If you want to have a camera mode that offers all kinds of cinematic automation, then go ahead and do so, but keep it far far far away from the regular orbit camera that is used to actually play the game.
Quoting for truth. Emphasis mine.
Sad part is that post is that is so much simple common sense that it's slightly worrying that it's been implemented ion any other way.
In essence: Stop trying to predict how we want the camera to behave and make it behave like we tell it to. Cut the cinematic bs, or just make an alternative 'Cinema/Studio' mode where you can play around with the bobbing and flybys for your youtube videos till your heart is content without detracting from such a critical element of the core gameplay. |
|
CCP Turtlepower
C C P
C C P Alliance
278
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:44:45 -
[493] - Quote
The D-Scan results list fade in animation will be removed completely later this week; We added this too hastily without considering all use cases. I apologize for the problems this has caused, thanks for all the feedback that has helped us to resolve this.
We also hope to squeeze in a few more bug fixes, particularly for some lingering zoom issues.
o7
CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters |
|
Manic Velocity
The Corp I Just Left
165
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:49:56 -
[494] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:The D-Scan results list fade in animation will be removed completely later this week; We added this too hastily without considering all use cases. I apologize for the problems this has caused, thanks for all the feedback that has helped us to resolve this.
We also hope to squeeze in a few more bug fixes, particularly for some lingering zoom issues.
o7
CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
Thank you.
@manicvelocity
|
JonnyPew
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
18
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:51:39 -
[495] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:The D-Scan results list fade in animation will be removed completely later this week; We added this too hastily without considering all use cases. I apologize for the problems this has caused, thanks for all the feedback that has helped us to resolve this.
We also hope to squeeze in a few more bug fixes, particularly for some lingering zoom issues.
o7
CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
Muchas gracias
EVE Online is my hobby
http://www.youtube.com/JonnyPew
|
Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel
EvE-Scout Enclave
1820
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:53:58 -
[496] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:The D-Scan results list fade in animation will be removed completely later this week; We added this too hastily without considering all use cases. I apologize for the problems this has caused, thanks for all the feedback that has helped us to resolve this.
We also hope to squeeze in a few more bug fixes, particularly for some lingering zoom issues.
o7
CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
<3
Now then, about this removing the old camera and not being able to right click and look around business? |
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
436
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:55:26 -
[497] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:The D-Scan results list fade in animation will be removed completely later this week; We added this too hastily without considering all use cases. I apologize for the problems this has caused, thanks for all the feedback that has helped us to resolve this.
We also hope to squeeze in a few more bug fixes, particularly for some lingering zoom issues.
o7
CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
Thank you for that Turtlepower, Pls also see my previous couple of posts. There are some big functionality issue's with the way these dscan and tracking camera functions are being implemented.
Daemun of Khanid
|
Chris Diaboli
The Knowledge.
Nexus Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 17:04:21 -
[498] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:The D-Scan results list fade in animation will be removed completely later this week;
Later?
How about now?
The Old D-Scan was also fixed on the fly.
It's quite impossible to play with this 'feature' in a wormhole. |
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
437
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 17:13:33 -
[499] - Quote
OK, in regards to my last posts about the V key toggling on and having to be turned off.
I was wrong kinda... if I press the V key on the keyboard it has to be held down BUT if I press the key on my Logitech G13 that is programmed to the V key it toggles and has to be turned back off.
I don't know why it does this but can only assume it has something to do with the way the G13 handles press and release timing. So I'm going to write that issue off as a hardware compatibility issue.
That being said I have less issue with the way the new dscan/tracking function over writing the original dscan refresh function.
Daemun of Khanid
|
Kodaw Kuori
Eternal Beings
I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 17:23:22 -
[500] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:The D-Scan results list fade in animation will be removed completely later this week; We added this too hastily without considering all use cases. I apologize for the problems this has caused, thanks for all the feedback that has helped us to resolve this.
We also hope to squeeze in a few more bug fixes, particularly for some lingering zoom issues.
o7
CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
Yay! |
|
|
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
439
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 17:33:19 -
[501] - Quote
All my previous issue's with the Dscan refresh shortcut have been corrected/redacted.
All that's left is the option to remove the camera offset when using tracking camera and I'm a (reasonably) happy camper.
o7
Daemun of Khanid
|
Johnathan Severasse
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
Psychotic Tendencies.
91
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 17:34:22 -
[502] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:The D-Scan results list fade in animation will be removed completely later this week; We added this too hastily without considering all use cases. I apologize for the problems this has caused, thanks for all the feedback that has helped us to resolve this.
We also hope to squeeze in a few more bug fixes, particularly for some lingering zoom issues.
o7
CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
Thanks guys! We appreciate it! |
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
896
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 17:36:42 -
[503] - Quote
Morwen Lagann wrote:I've said it before (likely in this thread) and I'll say it again.
If you're working on the UI in EVE, look, we get it. You want it to look pretty like the rest of the game. That's cool.
But you're doing so at the expense of core functionality, every. Goddamn. Time.
The beta starmap. Still missing core functionality from the original map.
Beta camera. Still missing core functionality from the original camera.
This new d-scan animation? Outright removes core functionality from the tool.
Function over form. Function over form. Function over form. Repeat it until it sinks in, or this cycle of UI tweaks followed by supernovas of player rage will not end.
What a good post!
Do not remove the old camera.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM XI
|
Kaivaja
State War Academy
Caldari State
37
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 17:41:38 -
[504] - Quote
Good fixes in the 2nd patch today, but also one regression: when you go through a gate or wormhole, the previous camera zoom level is not remembered. Instead the camera zooms very close to your ship. I wonder if you could fix it to remember the previous zoom level, just like it did before? |
nikar galvren
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
58
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 17:43:13 -
[505] - Quote
Tippia wrote:GÇó GǪindeed, make all camera settings persistent.
Such as the position and zoom of the camera between mode changes and docking events; tactical overview settings for the respective modes; indeed any manual adjustment the player can make should be the way they left it when they come back to that view mode.
Oh, Dear God. Yes. So. Much. Yes. |
Daemun Khanid
Apollo Defence Industries
439
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 17:45:00 -
[506] - Quote
Getting a double key press effect with the dscan key. The list populates once when pressed then flickers and refreshes again as if I pressed the key twice. Does this on a regular keyboard key press so it's not just my game pad this time. :)
It's a distraction more than a functional issue but I presume that if it is indeed sending a query to the server twice each time that it's gonna cause a small degree of unnecessary server load increase.
Daemun of Khanid
|
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries
134
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 17:57:29 -
[507] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:The D-Scan results list fade in animation will be removed completely later this week; We added this too hastily without considering all use cases. I apologize for the problems this has caused, thanks for all the feedback that has helped us to resolve this.
We also hope to squeeze in a few more bug fixes, particularly for some lingering zoom issues.
o7
CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
Thanks TurtlePower
Can you please get someone to have a look at the tab function window behaviour while the UI tweaks are going on?
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=464454
Please??
@dominousnolen
|
MRxX7XxMONKEY
Sleepless Enterprises
11
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 18:17:29 -
[508] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:The D-Scan results list fade in animation will be removed completely later this week; We added this too hastily without considering all use cases. I apologize for the problems this has caused, thanks for all the feedback that has helped us to resolve this.
We also hope to squeeze in a few more bug fixes, particularly for some lingering zoom issues.
o7
CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
damn, I was quite enjoying this effect today while WH hunting. oh well, maybe one day in the future |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
3573
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 18:52:48 -
[509] - Quote
The new tracking camera mode is a step in the right direction. Thank you for that.
Now if you could just RESTORE the ability to have the camera always keep my ship in the center of the screen, it would be the perfectly adequate system we had before someone decided we needed shiny fluffy glittery stuff to replace it.
Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
|
Terraj Oknatis
xX-Crusader-Xx
Tactical Narcotics Team
33
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 19:02:24 -
[510] - Quote
For the love of god please make a slider for zoom speed. It is far too fast.
Stop lerping all the things. It causes lag. I'm talking to you D-scan
When I click on the scanner radial menu, If I let go of the button with the cursor still in the center it should just disappear
Loosen up the friction on the camera position. It is far too tight. better yet this is why God invented sliders
In all your CCP DEV wisdom sit down for the next 3 hours and play with the camera until it feels PRECISELY like the old camera and make that the default... Then make sliders for ALL THE THINGS! at this point you will stop getting shouted at by the entire community.
Oh yeah right click pan zoom. Where is it... I want it back. Bring it back..
TRACKING CAMERA UNDER ORBIT CAMERA IN RADIAL MENU PLEASEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#disappointedface
I'm half way through raging at the moment.... |
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 [17] 18 19 20 .. 23 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |