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Sticky:Dev blog: Unboxing the new Camera in EVE Online

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 15 post(s)
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman CK-0FF Bad Intention 8	Posted - 2016.02.16 13:41:02 - [451] - Quote Ned Thomas wrote: CCP Turtlepower wrote: Quick update: Old D-Scan is broken, but we have it fixed internally already, and a fix going out ASAP. We realize the results list is populating too slowly, we will improve that ASAP as well. o7 CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters So is there an intentional delay that is just moving too slowly, or is the entire delay part of the problem? If you ask the players, any delay is a problem.
Kazi Kugisa EVE University Ivy League 57	Posted - 2016.02.16 13:43:23 - [452] - Quote CCP Turtlepower wrote: Ahoyhoy, Today, we deployed the following features to Tranquility: - Added tracking camera toggle (enable with Shift + C) to the Orbit mode - Added a new way to D-Scan: hold V and click (V can be changed to other keys via the settings menu). /snip More fixes and tweaks coming soon. Thanks for all the feedback and patience. o7 CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters I know you are trying but there comes a time to kick the ball away and play defense. First, I want to congratulate you on the inevitable crapstorm on TQ from the quick installation of the V kludge. I'm sure it will be as well received as a Doomsday to a carrier. Not even from a gameplay option, I can't imagine the effect it will have on server performance as they have to process thousands upon thousands of V's each server tick. Not even to mention the clunkiness of the whole setup and that silly lag in populating DSCAN. This is a classic 80/20 implementation. The problem is that there are too many important features in the 20% that the vast majority of the userbase depends on. Yes, I know you have to have the new camera for capitals and citadels. However, it is really time for a project manager or CCP Fozzie to step in and come up with a plan B. It is obvious that the new camera will not be in an acceptable format for the March release for most of the user base. I will reiterate the only option that is going to let you meet the deadline without full revolt or subscriber loss. I will say this, if forced into this unworking camera in the next release, I will just put all my accounts into Skillqueue Online mode until the subs expire at the end of April and then not renew until I hear that it is fixed. All of my alts purpose is to make ISK so I can lose ships in PVP. This change destroys my PVP playstyle. If I'm not PVPing, I don't need to be hauling, missioning, nor doing industry. I urge the devs to use this plan B that I will restate one more time: 1) Reset every camera back to the new camera by default with the next patch 2) Code in a requirement that will automatically force a camera switch for using ships or structures that require the new camera. Make sure that no opt-opt can be done while in such a situation. (It would be nice to have the camera reset to prefered option when leaving ship/structure but to get things going, I'd be fine with just re enabling the toggle) 3) Keep the old camera functional for anyone else until the final 20% of the coding can be done to make the new camera better than the old camera in every way. CCP Turtlepower, CCP Fozzie, et al, please please please don't force this new camera on a large part of your userbase that it is going to hurt. o7
Gen Mo'Kai Phayder Corporation 9	Posted - 2016.02.16 13:43:46 - [453] - Quote CCP Turtlepower wrote: Quick update: Old D-Scan is broken, but we have it fixed internally already, and a fix going out ASAP. We realize the results list is populating too slowly, we will improve that ASAP as well. o7 CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters So do you plan to add the fade-in animation to the overview as well? For most wormholers having an up-to-date D-scan is more important than the overview itself.
Noene Drops Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 9	Posted - 2016.02.16 13:44:43 - [454] - Quote CCP Turtlepower wrote: Quick update: Old D-Scan is broken, but we have it fixed internally already, and a fix going out ASAP. We realize the results list is populating too slowly, we will improve that ASAP as well. o7 CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters But do you realize that the use case of 'just dscan around me' is sort of broken now, because if you have a celestial selected in Overview, and then press dscan button, the camera will rotate to it automatically, unlike it was before? Simple example, consider a combat situation, say, you're clearing an anomaly in lowsec. You have pre-aligned to a celestial, you keep that celestial selected to warp out in case you get jumped at, while your drones just clear rats. You have your camera rotated in a way that allows you to see your grid, and when you press dscan button to see what's going on, the camera will rotate to selected celestial, in a completely unexpected manner; now you don't see your grid and lose situational awareness. The example above is not completely unrealistic. What's worse is that now dscan behavior deviates from what it was before for no apparent reason, and that leads to confusion. Please reconsider this change and make the dscan work like it worked, because losing situational awareness is not fun.
Onamata Poeia University of Caille Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2016.02.16 13:50:59 - [455] - Quote CCP Turtlepower wrote: We realize the results list is populating too slowly, we will improve that ASAP as well. From my perspective, anything less than INSTANT is too slow. So, for clarity, is the intention to go back to d-scan results showing instantly or to make the needless fluff animation a little bit quicker but still not instant.
Raphendyr Nardieu Unpublished Chapter Suddenly Content 72	Posted - 2016.02.16 13:53:06 - [456] - Quote Thanks for the tracking camera. Also I noticed that if you reselect the orbit mode, it will set the chase mode. Nice addition. While looking those buttons next to capacitor.. Could the open cargo and autopilot be moved some where else? Those don't belong to that group so much. Though I don't know good places for this. Another thing. IMHO (others can desagree) the tacktical camera button could be a menu, Similar to the scan button. Thus you could put the toggle tracking camera option under that and probably other options for the camera too, when those are created.
RuleoftheBone Stellar Conundrum 27	Posted - 2016.02.16 13:57:38 - [457] - Quote CCP Turtlepower wrote: Ahoyhoy, Today, we broke scanning and probing and camera features on Tranquility: We shall continue to ignore all well reasoned and detailed explanations of WHY these changes are bad for gameplay. lulz. More fixes and tweaks coming soon. Thanks for all the feedback and patience. o7 CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters Ok....I am actually annoyed to log into an unplayable game in WH space. Old dscan broken. New dscan and associated probe map remains icky for serious pilots...never mind the delay in display. I am imploring you to spend less time worrying about your reddit score and more time actually listening to what is getting broken for no reason. THIS is the sort of thing that can and will lead to long time players not bothering to renew subs. This is not a balance issue....it is a game play issue. Game=fun. No fun=do something else. I hope you fix this stuff. Cheers Bone
Jarrec DuMorne Concordiat Spaceship Samurai 9	Posted - 2016.02.16 14:02:36 - [458] - Quote Well then, I really never thought i would ever say this but: My alts subscription is due by the end of the months, and for now I will not resub it.... As a paying customer, the old camera is the product I want. Give me the option to continue using it and I will gladly give you more money. I can live with the new camera if you: * Re-implement the right-click freelook and zoom option!! (I use it every day, and i simply have no idea what im supposed to replace that function with, once its gone.) * Re-implenent a tracking camera that works exactly as the old one, which does not offset the ships location and has an adjustable point of interest. I still wouldnt be happy with this product, but i would call it a day and stop complaining. This whole affair, the way the camera works, the "cinematic" inertia and field of view stuff shows, that you have completly missunderstood what the camera is for. In the end of the day, i play this game because i really enjoy the experience, and reducing the amount of control i have over the games controls will dampen the enjoyment. Again: the old camera is the product i want to pay for. Now, in one month, one year and 10 years from now.
Sharps WiNGSPAN Academy for Enterprising Pilots The WINGSPAN Logo Alliance 13	Posted - 2016.02.16 14:07:10 - [459] - Quote CCP Turtlepower wrote: Quick update: Old D-Scan is broken, but we have it fixed internally already, and a fix going out ASAP. We realize the results list is populating too slowly, we will improve that ASAP as well. o7 CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters I'm responding to this post as well as this tweet from CCP Lebowski https://twitter.com/CCP_Lebowski/status/699587641138925568 (I don't have a Twitter account to reply to him) Please retain the option to opt out of any transition effect. This talk of "improving" the speed and Lebowski's mention of "less than a half second" is not acceptable. This is a game where half-seconds count. Serious scanners do not want this fluff. We never asked for this fluff. Please let us opt out of it completely.
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman CK-0FF Bad Intention 8	Posted - 2016.02.16 14:07:21 - [460] - Quote RuleoftheBone wrote: I am imploring you to spend less time worrying about your reddit score and more time actually listening to what is getting broken for no reason. Trust me, if they were actually paying attention to Reddit the broken parts of this update would never have gone through. The Reddit community doesn't approve of the V command or the slow dscan list either, and I have a feeling the old dscan window breaking is related to the V function.

Longdrinks Leather Club Paisti Syndicate 241	Posted - 2016.02.16 14:11:19 - [461] - Quote If you want a animation to show that the dscan window has updated just make them all scroll in left from right at the same time. Not this useless fluff that forces you to keep your eyes glued to the list until the last item is revealed,
Balaur Venatores Nordului Chapters. 8	Posted - 2016.02.16 14:13:20 - [462] - Quote ty for camera auto-tracking o7 Orbit camera active, auto-tracking on, when autopiloting with shuttle my ship is lost from fov on every warp after gate jump.
Ned Thomas Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 1818	Posted - 2016.02.16 14:21:55 - [463] - Quote If the d-scan animation is as quick as proposed by Lebowski on Twitter/Reddit, then I could learn to live with it, but I'd rather not HAVE to learn to live with it when d-scan worked perfectly fine before.
Scotsman Howard The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 19	Posted - 2016.02.16 14:24:13 - [464] - Quote For those of us at work and have not had time to test this yet, can someone please give me a basic idea of how a couple of these things are working right now? toggle tracking camera" - Does this mean you can turn it on or off like the old camera's "focus on selected item" option (or whatever it was actually called)? It sounds like the center of the focus is off from some of the other comments, but it is at least a start. Does this toggle last session to session, system to system, etc.? or does it need to be re-toggled every time? D-scan hotkey (V + Click) - How exactly is this different other than adding a click? Did they not add a d-scan hotkey option a while ago that does not involve a click? Thanks for the help understanding what is happening.
Mister Ripley Ministry of War Amarr Empire 162	Posted - 2016.02.16 14:26:59 - [465] - Quote Invert zoom direction is still not working.
Sharps WiNGSPAN Academy for Enterprising Pilots The WINGSPAN Logo Alliance 14	Posted - 2016.02.16 14:28:33 - [466] - Quote Ned Thomas wrote: If the d-scan animation is as quick as proposed by Lebowski on Twitter/Reddit, then I could learn to live with it, but I'd rather not HAVE to learn to live with it when d-scan worked perfectly fine before. Forcing a UI effect with every scan is a quality of life detriment. It ruins the ability to detect simple shifts with your peripheral vision.
Balaur Venatores Nordului Chapters. 8	Posted - 2016.02.16 14:34:42 - [467] - Quote Scotsman Howard wrote: Does this mean you can turn it on or off like the old camera's "focus on selected item" option (or whatever it was actually called)? Yes, with the hotkey. Scotsman Howard wrote: It sounds like the center of the focus is off from some of the other comments, but it is at least a start. Yes. Scotsman Howard wrote: Does this toggle last session to session, system to system, etc.? Yes, for both.
Ned Thomas Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 1818	Posted - 2016.02.16 14:35:14 - [468] - Quote Sharps wrote: Forcing a UI effect with every scan is a quality of life detriment. It ruins the ability to detect simple shifts with your peripheral vision. You'll get no argument from me there.
Trajan Unknown Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops 91	Posted - 2016.02.16 14:54:33 - [469] - Quote I think I finally figured out what you did. This so called feature Quote: When looking at other ships, camera is allowed to drift slowly, making it very easy to set up super cool fly-by shots. Drifting can be temporarily disabled by holding down the left mouse button for a steady view when you need to take a closer look. When looking at your own ship, we allow an almost negligible amount of drift to achieve a subtle parallax effect as the nebula moves by ever so slowly. combined with this Quote: The tracking camera implementation has also changed so that we now always keep the tracked object center-screen, while pushing the foreground object to the side as we zoom in. Is what totally triggers me all the time. Cinematic stuff is all nice and dandy but make it an option for video makers because for real flying it-¦s not useful.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 27158	Posted - 2016.02.16 14:57:41 - [470] - Quote CCP Turtlepower wrote: Ahoyhoy, Today, we deployed the following features to Tranquility: - Added tracking camera toggle (enable with Shift + C) to the Orbit mode I don't have the client at hand, but can that be reversed? As in, C toggles tracking camera, and Shift-C does the silly new multi-button-press-click method that no-one cares for? Quote: More fixes and tweaks coming soon. Thanks for all the feedback and patience. The following stuff still needs to be fixed: GÇó Tracking camera does not track GÇö it GÇ£looksGÇ¥. By this I mean that the tracking camera puts the target in focus, rather than show your ship and the target in relation to that ship. It behaves as a very clumsy and pointless way to do what you used to do with the old GÇ£look -> set as parent -> set as targetGÇ¥ advanced camera combo. No-one particularly used that because it had no real gameplay use (it made for good video fodder, but that's something unrelated and largely irrelevant that doesn't need its own camera mode). The tracking camera needs to work like the old tracking camera: your ship in the middle (or at an adjustable offset); the target kept on-screen at an adjustable position; no camera tricks (no FoV or zoom or anything) other than rotating to ensure that both positions are on-screen and as close to their set-up points as possible. Otherwise, it becomes somewhere between pointless or just outright unintuitive for anything related to navigation, scanning, or actuallyGÇª you knowGÇª tracking a target. GÇó Look camera does not look GÇö it follows/does a fly-by Looking at a target should do only exactly that: it puts the target at the centre of the screen; everything else works as normal in relation to this new focus object. No automated camera movement; no automated adjustments; nothing except what the user does to the camera (manually adjusting slew, zoom, FoV etc). At the moment, you constantly have to fight the camera's automation to be able to analyse details of the target object, which means it is largely pointless forGÇª you knowGÇª looking at a target. If you want to have a camera mode that offers all kinds of cinematic automation, then go ahead and do so, but keep it far far far away from the regular orbit camera that is used to actually play the game. GÇó Look camera has no toggle. Just like C should toggle the tracking camera on or off, alt-clicking a target (or nothing) should toggle the GÇ£lookGÇ¥ camera. The snap-back from target to your own ship should be pretty much instant. It may look neat when the camera flies around in space, but it is useless and just wastes precious time and ruins situational awareness. GÇó Adjustable (or just a setting for no) acceleration on zoom, FoV, rotation, and dolly moves. GÇªand for the love of all that's holy, make the acceleration (or lack thereof) equal both the yaw and pitch axes. This is not the same thing as a speed setting GÇö the speed of all of the above should also be user-adjustable since everyone has differently precise mice and prefer different movement speeds. But the acceleration, if you have any at all, must be disconnected from that and be an option for the user. GÇó Bring back rclick-slewing of the camera. Being able to quickly look around in a different direction and then have the camera snap back to its previous position is invaluable. GÇó Bring back Alt-RL-drag FoV/zoom adjustments. With larger grids and longer GÇ£lookGÇ¥ distances, the ability to manually adjust your zoom and FoV is more valuable than ever, so removing it at this point is absolutely nonsensical. Since you've spent all this time refactoring the code, maybe now is a good time to make those adjustments persistent across docking events? GÇó GÇªindeed, make all camera settings persistent. Such as the position and zoom of the camera between mode changes and docking events; tactical overview settings for the respective modes; indeed any manual adjustment the player can make should be the way they left it when they come back to that view mode. Oh, and while you're at it, get one of those old banner printing apps, print the following so that each letter takes up roughly an A0 sheet of paper, and plaster it above the UI stations as one of those work-space motivator posters you see in some movies: Sharps wrote: Forcing a UI effect ~~with every scan~~-áon anything is a quality of life detriment. Live by that rule. It'll make everyone much happier in the future. Coincidentally, you need to stop applying hollywood-UI effects on everything. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.

Gargantua Austrene Catastrophic Breakthrough. ADPT Nation 0	Posted - 2016.02.16 15:01:21 - [471] - Quote CCP Turtlepower wrote: Quick update: Old D-Scan is broken, but we have it fixed internally already, and a fix going out ASAP. We realize the results list is populating too slowly, we will improve that ASAP as well. o7 CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters may i ask how something like that can happen? Dont you guys test the bullshit you code before making it live? what about unfucking the existing game before adding more broken content? ccp wtf?!?!?!?
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman CK-0FF Bad Intention 10	Posted - 2016.02.16 15:05:54 - [472] - Quote Tippia wrote: I don't have the client at hand, but can that be reversed? As in, C toggles tracking camera, and Shift-C does the silly new multi-button-press-click method that no-one cares for? Yes it can, but be warned that changing the hotkeys to swap those functions has the side effect of breaking the tracking hotkey for the old camera.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 27159	Posted - 2016.02.16 15:08:38 - [473] - Quote Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote: Tippia wrote: I don't have the client at hand, but can that be reversed? As in, C toggles tracking camera, and Shift-C does the silly new multi-button-press-click method that no-one cares for? Yes it can, but be warned that changing the hotkeys to swap those functions has the side effect of breaking the tracking hotkey for the old camera. :cripes: GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
Cien Banchiere Extrinsic Arcadia Distribution 42	Posted - 2016.02.16 15:25:16 - [474] - Quote I'm pressed for time and haven't seen much, well anything, on adding the ability to move your camera around in the future as with the last tracking camera. And is there going to be a way, or is there a way, to stop that god-awful swaying when the camera tracks something. I don't get nauseous like some do, but it can be disorienting when my camera drone has no idea where it wants to be in relation to my ship. Then my ship moves so far to th left and back it's no longer on screen. It also snaps unreasonably fast in my opinion. Clicking on something directly behind me or to my direct left/right swings the camera like it's the last thing it'll ever do. I like the new cameras and options, believe me. I just feel like it was unnecessary to remove a lot of the things that made the old camera work to give us something that's not truely out of beta.
Kazi Kugisa EVE University Ivy League 59	Posted - 2016.02.16 15:28:04 - [475] - Quote Scotsman Howard wrote: For those of us at work and have not had time to test this yet, can someone please give me a basic idea of how a couple of these things are working right now? toggle tracking camera" - Does this mean you can turn it on or off like the old camera's "focus on selected item" option (or whatever it was actually called)? It sounds like the center of the focus is off from some of the other comments, but it is at least a start. Does this toggle last session to session, system to system, etc.? or does it need to be re-toggled every time? D-scan hotkey (V + Click) - How exactly is this different other than adding a click? Did they not add a d-scan hotkey option a while ago that does not involve a click? Thanks for the help understanding what is happening. On the D-scan, you have to keep the V key held down while clicking the object at the same time. If it was press V and then click, I would be cool with it. I could map it to a mousebutton, like I do with the D-Scan hotkey. I can't map a continuous press. So now my only typing hand is tied to the V key the entire time I try to go through a list of celestials.
Arline Kley PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 639	Posted - 2016.02.16 15:40:25 - [476] - Quote Gave the new camera a try last night. lasted all of 5 mintues before I returned to the standard camera. "For it was said they had become like those peculiar demons, which dwell in matter but in whom no light may be found." - Father Grigori, Ravens 3:57
Pix Severus Empty You 3095	Posted - 2016.02.16 15:42:08 - [477] - Quote CCP Turtlepower wrote: Quick update: Old D-Scan is broken, but we have it fixed internally already, and a fix going out ASAP. We realize the results list is populating too slowly, we will improve that ASAP as well. o7 CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters Are you going to bring the server down for this today? I literally cannot play EVE right now. My lord.

CCP Turtlepower C C P C C P Alliance 276	Posted - 2016.02.16 15:46:39 - [478] - Quote Old D-Scan is now fixed on Tranquility. If you are affected, you will need to restart your client and launcher to get the fix. Once again, sorry about the inconvenience. CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters

Bloemkoolsaus Viperfleet Inc. Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle 208	Posted - 2016.02.16 15:46:59 - [479] - Quote Sharps wrote: Forcing a UI effect with every scan is a quality of life detriment. It ruins the ability to detect simple shifts with your peripheral vision. What this man said.
Trajan Unknown Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops 91	Posted - 2016.02.16 15:53:53 - [480] - Quote CCP Turtlepower wrote: Old D-Scan is now fixed on Tranquility. If you are affected, you will need to restart your client and launcher to get the fix. Once again, sorry about the inconvenience. CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters How about some feedback to the camera? Nice that you-¦ve fixed the stuff so fast but no feedback on the 20 sth pages of people telling you guys what-¦s wrong is a bit rude isn-¦t it?



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