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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Popsikle
Caffeine Commodities Company
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Posted - 2007.02.09 22:27:00 -
[361]
*snip* A friend of mine used to steal jewelry and sell the items on eBay. When he got caught they took all the jewelry he had away (bpo's) and all the cash he had made (his toons) away from him. They didn't take the money that he paid to his landlord, or didn't take the jewelry he had already sold to people, or didn't take the money back form people he purchased his xbox from using the money he made....
You see what im getting at?
Removed reference to deleted post - Serathu ([email protected]) __________________________________________ -= We Fly for our people =- -= I fly for Blood =- |
Rhaegar Targarin
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.02.09 22:27:00 -
[362]
Originally by: elohllird
If T20 loses his job, i think im really going to have to reconsider my subscription to Eve. I dont want to be involved with people with such an inhuman attitude to REAL people.
QFT
Quit now, because you are involved with people who feel this way. In fact, more of us want him fired than sympathize with him or CCP at this point. I wish we could all go quit together and move to another game and leave the cheaters, the devs, and their sympathizers here. Soon enough something else will come alone with less lag, better graphics, less bugs, and most importantly, INTEGRITY.
Rhaegar Targarin - Minmatar Combat Pilot |
Darvin Felth
Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2007.02.09 22:28:00 -
[363]
As much as this is a confession it is also a request for your forgiveness for events of which IÆm truly sorry.
Tuff **** t20 à you knew what would happen when this got out and now you expect the community to forgive you àà get a grip fella if nething you should be packing up your desk and picking up your P45 at the door.
As for this game I play I canÆt say for certain weather I shall continue playing, my faith in CCP is very badly shaken, not only do they try and sweep this under the carpet they also leave it up to one of there own community to uncover it all. Now lets be honest there is no way in hell this would have come to light without a certain whistle-blower doing what he did to uncover it all à
Is this just the tip of the iceberg ??? And will we ever know the real truth???
CCP/t20 how the hell do you sleep at night knowing that you have bent the community over and dry shafted us all...
*watches as Harry sends a little warm present 2 CCP
Smoking Whippets since 1967 ....
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Chronus26
Gallente Vale Heavy Industries SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.09 22:28:00 -
[364]
Originally by: ShuPac the3rd
Originally by: Chronus26 Please, put some thought into what you post instead of just jumping on the bandwagon.
I'm not jumping on the bandwagon....I quit!
SirMolle convo me ingame and I will give you all my veldspar I mined for last year and a half...oh wait...you dont need it...I forgt that you can get anything you want via cheating
ups sorry.... i will keep my bits and bytes
Suprprised sombody read what I posted, this must be a first.
To all those crying for the involved alliance to be dissolved/disbanded/deleted/whatever:
Really, please? You think they got where they are today because of the actions of 1 developer? No. they got there throught the hard work and dedication of hundreds of people. Those people should not be punished for actions taken by one person, which the vast majority most likley knew nothing about.
By your logic, if you were unknowingly driving a stolen car you should be thrown in prison for it. Does that sound right? Not to me it doesnt. -----
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Loyal Servant
Caldari The Short Bus Squad
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Posted - 2007.02.09 22:28:00 -
[365]
Please do not discuss moderation on the forums - email us instead - Serathu ([email protected])
TSBS - Eve's Premier podding service!
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Unleashed
Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.02.09 22:29:00 -
[366]
LOL I bet hes not sorry at all, he got away with a wrist slap when clearly it should have been alot worse than that.
CCP, Im quite surprised that you just let these things just slide, in such a highly competitive market you cannot afford to slip up like this. Shameful. ___
>currently training to level 5: sexual tyrannosaurus / Rank 8 /
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Evil D4rk
Caldari Shihan.
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Posted - 2007.02.09 22:29:00 -
[367]
Originally by: Sephiraa THIS IS NOT OVER.
* T20, you claim there were 6 BPOs, but that's not true. There were more. What is the fate of the others? What about these BPOs? When are they being put back in the lottery? - Barrage S Blueprint - Barrage L Blueprint - Inferno Javelin Torpedo Blueprint - Malediction Blueprint - Quake L Blueprint
* We know there are other Devs still in BoB, and we know their names. What assurance do we have that this kind of corruption has come to an end? Do they need to be exposed as well, or will you make an effort on your own to insure the integrity of fair play in this game moving forward?
* T20 led BoB's capital fleet with full knowledge of the account sharing being used to create the cynonet. Accounts shared by all of the Directors in BoB. Every single one of those accounts should be fully banned, if not every single account owned by the BoB directors who took part in the account sharing. Considering other account sharing players have been banned, the answer about what to do here should be obvious.
* T20 led BoB's capital fleet, with inside knowledge of game mechanics, and somehow BoB just magically happens to control the largest amount of space. Is anything going to be done to balance this unfair advantage given to the BoB alliance?
* The financial gain given to BoB through early, and 'illegal' aquisition of those BPOs has a much large ripple effect in terms of economic and military power that needs to be balanced. What are CCPs plan to right that wrong?
* What is the nature and purpose of the Polaris vessels seen around GoonSwarm's moons as some of them are claiming? How can the players by sure the corruption is not still ongoing?
* Is a further level of scandal required to get LV's ill gotten Mothership removed? It would be sad, but I'm sure the community is willing to produce it, if CCP is unable to police themseves internally, as the Kugutsume's banning, and seeming coverup attempts suggest.
* Unban the whistleblower's account. This shouldn't even be up for debate. This whole scenario is reprehensible, and needs to be set right ASAP.
Personally, I don't care if T20 keeps his job or not, as I imgaine he'll not take such risks again. What I do care about is the negative impact on the entire EVE community, from the ripple effects of his cheating. For example, would ASCN be dead today, if T20 had chosen differently.
There is more required of CCP, and you better not fail us this time.
QFFT!!
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Kernel Sander
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Posted - 2007.02.09 22:29:00 -
[368]
It would seem that CCP's new policy on cheating is that it is perfectly acceptable to do, and that if you are caught you should apologize as publicly as possible. Having to apologize in public is a total downer, HOWEVER dont worry about it too much because whoever catches you will be banned from the game, so you'll get your revenge in the end.
Those are some pretty sweet new rules.
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Nils Bohr
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Posted - 2007.02.09 22:29:00 -
[369]
Originally by: Amiable Quinn Notice no BoB player has shown their face, but a bunch of alts are now arguing that 6 T2 BPO's were "no big deal?"
Seriously guys, you are really not fooling anybody.
Funny how many of them are MC, ain't it?
I guess that argument's settled now.
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DevilHanzo
Gallente Acuario Mining Industries Combined Planetary Union
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Posted - 2007.02.09 22:29:00 -
[370]
Originally by: Ordo Lucius It is a ******* GAME!!!
To call for someone to lose thier JOB (you know, the think us normal people have?) over some bloody blueprints (i dont give a **** how much they were worth) is absolutely insane. They guy messed with policy, "misconduct" blah blah, but lets face facts, who the hell got hurt by this in real life? Anyone?
Of course they didnt, it is a game, where, by game mechanics, people can loot, cheat, scam, steal, kill, maim etc. IN GAME. Who cares if he gave away a few blueprints? If the devs didnt get involved in in-game stuff, we wouldnt have the game we all play today. Whether or not devs should be able to spawn stuff on command on the main server is open to question. Fair enough. But to cause some poor bloke to lose his job because he cheated IN A GAME...
Guys, you ALL take the biscuit on this one. For being shallow, pedantic, unpleasant and quite frankly i think you all need to bloody wake up. Its a game. The devs "conduct" is something for the DEVS to decide on. Not you.
If T20 loses his job, i think im really going to have to reconsider my subscription to Eve. I dont want to be involved with people with such an inhuman attitude to REAL people.
Its not a game to CCP, its a business, its not a game to developers, its their job. Enough said.
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Azaeren
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.02.09 22:29:00 -
[371]
So, what about the probable HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of isk they made off those very popular items? ____________________________________________________
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Falryx
Caldari Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e
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Posted - 2007.02.09 22:30:00 -
[372]
My overriding comment is:
"Vote with your feet."
If you don't like how this game is run, you should unsubscribe and move on.
Vitriol, whining, piling baseless accusations on top of legitimate ones so that neither can be discerned in the pile, and basically armchair CEOing a business entity subject to the employment law of a sovereign State of which nearly no one here is a citizen... these aren't things that actually provide value.
Vote with your feet.
My feet? They're staying. Any damage I perceive from events like this is far outweighed by the benefit I perceive from having developers deeply, fully involved with the game. I think it's one reason EVE is the best game of its genre and will live well beyond any reasonable expectation.
Thanks for the update, kieron.
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PDoggy
Minmatar Valid Character Corporation
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Posted - 2007.02.09 22:30:00 -
[373]
Edited by: PDoggy on 09/02/2007 22:30:32 It's nice that there's finally an apology going out, but how much of one is it? At first it was deny deny deny, and when kieron posted his thread in CAOD, 24 pages of demanding blood and Band of Developers trying to run damage control followed, so here came the dev blog. This leaves me with a few questions.
Could you make it any more obvious? The reason that apology was posted wasn't because he was sorry, it was because he got caught. He was the only one publicised. How do we know this kind of garbage isn't still going on? If people hadn't still been ****ed off after kieron's thread, would this ever have come out*? What about the BPOs? No, this is another case of the Angel 8/10s and CCP only doing the right thing when they're caught doing the wrong. The only reason he says "I was acting alone" is because no logs of anyone else were made public, and I can tell this is going to come back and bite you in the ass one day when kugutsumen gets bored again.
What about kugutsumen? The allegations were, as has been admitted, true. So, how about his five banned accounts then? Surely he's only been doing the community (and YOUR INTEGRITY) a service in bringing this to light?
*Officially, I mean
Edit: There isn't a swear-word in this post, there isn't a troll, there are only simple questions. Don't "moderate" this. - Wait for your email, do not put it back - Ductoris |
Durgan Kael
Gallente Killson Corp
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Posted - 2007.02.09 22:30:00 -
[374]
What a copout. Issuing a most sincere apology for the most minor infraction anyone knows about. Why should we be taking focus off daily (Yes, DAILY) incursions on the trust of the player community? Spawnings used to clear gatecamps? Obvious leaks of information? An INGAME BANNING for of an OUT OF GAME activity? Cripes, just when you think you've found a company that actually runs its game the right way, these things come to light.
You cross these boundaries, and you're crossing the line between this being a game and it not. How long do you think it'll be before people die over this? Look at the news. It's already happened in other games. True to this need to accept EVE as a game, I wouldn't call for anyone to be fired, but I will call for a major change in how employees involve themselves...
For the good of this community, EVE developers must have some connection to its players. That's understandable. But for the good of it, they must have DETATCHMENT as well: No control or sway over conquerable zones, no political relations with player-built organizations, and certainly, God help us all, NO INVOLVEMENT WHATSOEVER IN COMBAT, INDUSTRY, OR THE ECONOMY. It's one thing to speak with players, hear their desires and complaints, and use these to build a better game. It's quite another to change the playing field by aiding any players in any way.
BoB may or may not be good enough to have gained and maintained control over what they have. If we had the surety of mind that there was never any CCP involvement in their gain, that might not be called into question at all. Because of this, and so many other undocumented or silenced incidents, this otherwise powerful, reputable alliance can never truly and fully be accepted as legitimate. If anyone from BoB has a complaint on that statement, they are best to direct it at CCP, or any among them that incited CCP's support of their goals.
I also want to personally congratulate the hacker that broke BoB's forums and brought this to light, and thank him for the sacrifice he made in doing so. He no doubt knew that this would've been coming. That, CCP, is dedication to a community.
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Arian Snow
The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.02.09 22:30:00 -
[375]
Please remain constructive - Serathu ([email protected]) I dont remember I dont recall I dont have memory of anything at all! |
Niaski Zalani
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.02.09 22:31:00 -
[376]
Originally by: gordon cain Anyone have an external link or anything to the original thread from Kugutsumen or can anyone fill me in plz.
On topic: Sad day, not enough concequence. I have been a victim of this coverup thing myself back with the drone bug. I learned it doesnt matter really in the end cause they just stop it and remove it if needed.
There should be no differences between if you come from a well known alliance or a noob corp.
All equal!
Gordon
I'd link one, but it'd get removed seeing as how it's apparently against the forum rules. However, if you take the guy's name, and add the most common domain name extension to it, you might get what you want.
(I guess playing hints would be against forum rules too...) ...Free Kugutsumen... |
Knerf
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.02.09 22:31:00 -
[377]
Originally by: Popsikle
Originally by: Rhaegar Targarin
Originally by: DaHeaVYFo Mass-hysteria for the loose! Let's all wait and see how it unfolds. I'm sure CCP was a bit premature with their audit...
Lose. Loose = Not Tight.
Fire T20. Disband RKK. Right Your Wrongs.
*snip* Its not like its RKK's fault for t20 cheating. Why would RKK be punished because someone else cheated, its not like RKK made t20 cheat. Even if the leaders of RKK knew about it, morality is not the same as legality.
Not to mention the other "allegations" on that idiots site are personal matters which if discussed publicly would mean CCP does not respect thier own Privacy policy... A far worse crime considering they have my credit info, if ya ask me.
Please remain constructive - Serathu ([email protected])
because they didnt say no when they were given the option, its cheating plain and simple, thats how you blame them,
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Nils Bohr
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Posted - 2007.02.09 22:32:00 -
[378]
Originally by: Laendra
Originally by: Raketefrau Edited by: Raketefrau on 09/02/2007 20:52:27 I don't understand why the whistleblower is being punished.
He rooted out wrongdoing, CCP was actually forced to take action, and for that he gets banned? If he hadn't outed the toons (who had already outed themselves to their corpmates), none of these "illegal" activities would have come to light, and CCP would still be sweeping everything under the rug.
Kugutsmen, I appreciate what you've done for the Eve community. It's a pity CCP can't see it that way.
How much similar activity is going on that we don't know about? This one case gets revealed, and CCP, after being dragged hesitantly through the mud, reaches out with a horrible reaction.
How do we know that this isn't continuing to happen elsewhere in the universe? What faith are now supposed to have in CCP's watchguarding abilities?
How are we supposed to trust the fact that CCP isn't sweeping other, lesser-known "crimes" under the rug as well?
You honestly can't see why he was banned? Regardless of his intentions, he hurt the community. He had to know that his actions would hurt the community as a whole. And he revealed Dev player accounts, knowingly, even those that were not involved in any wrongdoing, f****** those devs over in the process. For those actions alone, he should be perma-banned.
One could draw up numerous r/l comparisons here, but to summarize...the ends do not justify the means....ever.
Riiii-ight. Telling the truth hurts the community.
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PDoggy
Minmatar Valid Character Corporation
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Posted - 2007.02.09 22:32:00 -
[379]
Edited by: PDoggy on 09/02/2007 22:29:29
Originally by: Falryx My overriding comment is:
"Vote with your feet."
If you don't like how this game is run, you should unsubscribe and move on.
Vitriol, whining, piling baseless accusations on top of legitimate ones so that neither can be discerned in the pile, and basically armchair CEOing a business entity subject to the employment law of a sovereign State of which nearly no one here is a citizen... these aren't things that actually provide value.
Vote with your feet.
My feet? They're staying. Any damage I perceive from events like this is far outweighed by the benefit I perceive from having developers deeply, fully involved with the game. I think it's one reason EVE is the best game of its genre and will live well beyond any reasonable expectation.
Thanks for the update, kieron.
I'm staying in EVE because I like this game, I like the people in my corp and I like the people in my alliance. I don't like the people running EVE. And as for best game of it's genre - what other space MMOs are there? SWG? What a goddamned joke. - Wait for your email, do not put it back - Ductoris |
dokkillo
Amarr 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.02.09 22:32:00 -
[380]
Removed reference to deleted post - Serathu ([email protected])
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General Xenophon
Caldari Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.02.09 22:33:00 -
[381]
This issue already has drawn a great deal of attention to it. I am not going to be suprised if this causes CCP some really BAD PR for the game.
Not very good for getting more people to play.
I suggest you use this event to clean up your ranks, otherwise Eve may fall behind in getting more people to play.
I agree with other posters. It is not wise to punish the whistle-blowers especially where this WILL hurt ones reputation if the whistle-blowers are proven correct.
Irregardless of the BPOs value, the event itself leaves a horrible taint on Eve.
Again, let's learn from this and move on. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= "Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men." - Boondock Saints |
Doctor Zemmen
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.02.09 22:34:00 -
[382]
1) It has been said in the past that any employee found in violation of the basic rules governing player accounts would be terminated. This is not the first time something like this has happened. Is the employee being terminated? Do the rules only apply when they are conveinent?
2) Knowing that the punishment could be termination, the BPO's in question seem like a very small amount for the risk involved. I consider this to be "disclosure damage control." I doubt anyone would place their job and their career in jeopardy over the items listed. How much deaper does it really go?
3) How many more of these occurances go undiscovered? When the GM gave himself a faction BS, fully faction fitted, CCP ensured us that something like that could never happen as all employee player accounts are audited on a regular basis. It was stated that even without the player complaint the GM would have been caught when the audit guys looked over the logs. Once again we find ourselves in a similar situation, and it took a player to bring it to CCP's attention. This guy didn't just give himself these BPO's, they must have been there for a long time. When was the audit actually going to catch him? I find very little faith in either the system of audit that CCP uses or in the people responsible.
4) CCP, your "internal affairs" division is a joke. You have friends policing friends. These people all work together and go out and drink together. Do you really expect any of us to buy into this? Outsource the "weekly" log checking to someone who is not the cousin of the guy breaking the rules.
5) For those of you that says CCP does not have the responsibility to answer to us: Then who do they answer to? We are their customers. Nobody wants to quit playing this game, but we do expect a degree of accountabilty from the developers. This is not a free game. There is real money involved, and fraud is a serious matter. CCP knows this.
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Blue Rayes
Revenge Taste Like Chicken
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Posted - 2007.02.09 22:34:00 -
[383]
This is a loose loose situation.....
No matter if this is the whole truth or not the gap between BOB with friends and the hate/dislike BOB is bigger than ever.
BOB and friends will go on saying tinfoil hat and we never do anything outside the rules of the game and so on.....
BOB enemies will go on with saying that the truth never got out , that there's more to the this than was unfold....
Makes me wonder what CCP acctully can do to satisfy the whole community...
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Kalimac Brandagamba
Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.09 22:34:00 -
[384]
I bet they're all away for the weekend and won't reply to any of this.
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Kerushi
Caldari Black Thorne Corporation
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Posted - 2007.02.09 22:34:00 -
[385]
Originally by: Xelios 11 pages in an hour and a half, that must be some kind of record
for every page i read 2 more spawn
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OMG
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Posted - 2007.02.09 22:34:00 -
[386]
Here's a nice link for all those wanting t20's head: Double Jeopardy
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2007.02.09 22:34:00 -
[387]
Originally by: aggro the bpo returns is a start.
but the money made from that which must be billions. will this be returned. i very much doubt it. so the damage has been done.
what is keiron answer to this question
It's a problem much like the bugged Angels and Drone plexes. It's simply impossible to track all of that down, no system on the planet is sophisticated enough to do it.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Templer Relleg
Dark Knights of Deneb Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.02.09 22:34:00 -
[388]
Originally by: Sephiraa THIS IS NOT OVER.
* T20, you claim there were 6 BPOs, but that's not true. There were more. What is the fate of the others? What about these BPOs? When are they being put back in the lottery? - Barrage S Blueprint - Barrage L Blueprint - Inferno Javelin Torpedo Blueprint - Malediction Blueprint - Quake L Blueprint
* We know there are other Devs still in BoB, and we know their names. What assurance do we have that this kind of corruption has come to an end? Do they need to be exposed as well, or will you make an effort on your own to insure the integrity of fair play in this game moving forward?
* T20 led BoB's capital fleet with full knowledge of the account sharing being used to create the cynonet. Accounts shared by all of the Directors in BoB. Every single one of those accounts should be fully banned, if not every single account owned by the BoB directors who took part in the account sharing. Considering other account sharing players have been banned, the answer about what to do here should be obvious.
* T20 led BoB's capital fleet, with inside knowledge of game mechanics, and somehow BoB just magically happens to control the largest amount of space. Is anything going to be done to balance this unfair advantage given to the BoB alliance?
* The financial gain given to BoB through early, and 'illegal' aquisition of those BPOs has a much large ripple effect in terms of economic and military power that needs to be balanced. What are CCPs plan to right that wrong?
* What is the nature and purpose of the Polaris vessels seen around GoonSwarm's moons as some of them are claiming? How can the players by sure the corruption is not still ongoing?
* Is a further level of scandal required to get LV's ill gotten Mothership removed? It would be sad, but I'm sure the community is willing to produce it, if CCP is unable to police themseves internally, as the Kugutsume's banning, and seeming coverup attempts suggest.
* Unban the whistleblower's account. This shouldn't even be up for debate. This whole scenario is reprehensible, and needs to be set right ASAP.
Personally, I don't care if T20 keeps his job or not, as I imgaine he'll not take such risks again. What I do care about is the negative impact on the entire EVE community, from the ripple effects of his cheating. For example, would ASCN be dead today, if T20 had chosen differently.
There is more required of CCP, and you better not fail us this time.
We need this questions to have adressed in a dev blog ASAP!!!!!
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dokkillo
Amarr 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.02.09 22:35:00 -
[389]
T20 destroyed all eve community... thats the true.. what happen the next time of bob earns a powerfull bpo? or the next battle? or something....
no more trust... :(
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TRIGGER
Rampage Eternal
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Posted - 2007.02.09 22:35:00 -
[390]
Im personally disgusted .
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