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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Laendra
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:04:00 -
[91]
As much as it pains me to see that a Dev actually cheated in the game...it's not like they were incredibly expensive item BPOs, so it is very likely that they made very little, if any, difference in the game. Outrage could be expected if, for example, they were 6 HAC BPOs, but the simple fact of the matter, is they were not. They were ammo BPOs, and a interdictor BPO. Ammo BPOs are the crap-tastic invention of the year, and interdictors are less than wallet-breaking. Yes, it was grossly unfair. Yes, it was wrong. Yes, I am glad this came to light and we were all informed of the actions and that they are to be reintroduced. In the grand scheme of things, did it make a difference in BoB's superiority over their enemies? No. AFAIK, money has never been an issue for BoB, so having perhaps cheaper access to the items in question would not be that great of a deal.
In the end, it comes down to what is to be done about it. Corrective action for t20? Dunno the answer to that (but, if he would give us our god-forsaken item database updates and data exports, I'd be a lot happier with him, and less willing to string him up ). Installation of better tracking tools and more scrutinization for CCP player and Dev accounts? Definately.
Perhaps, as an equalizing tactic, everyone in EVE be given a portion of the sales generated from the sale of the items created with those BPOs. Even if they were given away free, a weighted average market price could be used. Or, make empire a FFA for 24 hours
In the end, t20 is only human....human's make mistakes. Here's hoping that he, and the rest of the EVE community have learned from t20's mistakes, and learn not to take advantage of an unfair situation.
Cheers to CCP for airing their dirty laundry. Now, everyone back to your function keys. ------------------- |
Exioce
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:05:00 -
[92]
What about the money and other advantages that were gained by the use of these BPO's? How will those that benefited, or those that were harmed be compensated?
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Xy Kintar
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:05:00 -
[93]
With all the assurances that *absolutely nothing wrong happened*, with these revelations is hard to believe that this isn't just the tip of the iceberg. Stuff like the old southern coalition being given a mothership and that time a newbie was caught with faction gear linked to a gm implies that this kind of thing goes on all the time. Don't whitewash this, don't allow the playing field to be determined by who has the most pet CCP employees.
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Izo Azlion
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:05:00 -
[94]
The fact a GM is that corrupt leaves me with little confidence. Their GM's. They shouldnt influence the game in such a way like that, even if their Ammo BPO's or not.
I'm disgraced, considering I get forum warnings and my posts edited, and he can be allowed to be responsible for something like that, and only apologize once hes been caught.
No, not fair play.
Izo Azlion.
---
Thanks to Stubnitz for the Sig. |
Serenity Steele
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate Operations Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:05:00 -
[95]
Well, caught out on principle I guess. Nothing in that list that makes a drop of difference to the game. Still no condolable actions, but lesson learnt.
The most remarkable thing is that Devs were accused of being members/helping RKK - the worst of all the BOB corps at doing anything with anything even remotely industrial - even today
To find out the (lack of) scale of helping makes it even funnier. Kudos for posting it, and don't quit your day-job.
Eve Strategic Maps - Outpost Alert
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FireFoxx80
Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:06:00 -
[96]
As I said above. It's the immesurable differences. If a fleet decided not to attack, because the enemy had two extra T2 ships.
We'll never know.
What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass! |
Kaylana Syi
Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:06:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Shigsy They weren't actually even very good BPO's
The sabre is an excellent BPO to have if you use a large T2 sniper fleet. It makes your combat strategy dirt cheap. One of your Sigs contained inappropriate material for the eve-o forums, please email [email protected] for a explination. - hutch Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
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Udoshi
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:07:00 -
[98]
CCP's policy towards ISK buying sends a clear message towards cheaters. It seeems appropriats to apply it in this case as well.
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Ariso
Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:07:00 -
[99]
Quote:
All allegations mentioned above are untrue, except one.
And we should believe you?
Quote: Developers having an unfair advantage of game mechanics.
Even the above is a lie... because how could devs control the game without having an unfair advantage over normal players?
I'm very saddened that this was all know prior to all the forum uproar and nothing was done. I'm also saddened that Kieron has to look a fool infront of the whole community because of a lack of action.
Quote: Developers helping (an) alliance(s) gain information they otherwise would not have.
As for the above a developer who works on balancing ships in eve and making capital ships work, but also being incharge of capital fleets in a large alliance is a conflict of interests and any knowledge as a commander would come from your extra knowledge of eve.
I'm with others saying T20 should be punished like Hellmar outlined in his blog.
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Amiable Quinn
Minmatar Lasleinur Production
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:08:00 -
[100]
Notice no BoB player has shown their face, but a bunch of alts are now arguing that 6 T2 BPO's were "no big deal?"
Seriously guys, you are really not fooling anybody.
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matty01
Killson Corp
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:09:00 -
[101]
Edited by: matty01 on 09/02/2007 21:05:23
tbh i think this'll raise even more questions, like "well they did this, what else did they do?"
which sucks, because none of this would have been exposed if it wasn't for the one thing, and all the rabble that caused. __________________________
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Niaski Zalani
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:09:00 -
[102]
I'll let my sig speak for itself. ...Free Kugutsumen... |
Lori Carlyle
LuthorCorp Combat Division
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:09:00 -
[103]
Since the thread I posted this in is now locked i'll give my view here in there "offical dev cheats" thread
Saying sorry after something like this just don't cut it... Hope you get fired over this.
Stupid.. Pure and simple..
CCP Stop hiring Kids that can't keep there hand out of the cookie jar. -------------------------------------------
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Waagaa Ktlehr
Amarr Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:09:00 -
[104]
Originally by: FireFoxx80 As I said above. It's the immesurable differences. If a fleet decided not to attack, because the enemy had two extra T2 ships.
We'll never know.
You can buy Sabres on the market too you know... They fit in carriers, I move them all the time. :) And they're pretty dirt cheap throwaway ships at that. Don't think for a second a single Sabre BPO dictates fleet makeups. :) -
- One ship to jam them all, one ship to damp them. One ship to suck them dry and in the dark void gank them. |
William Brasky
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:10:00 -
[105]
The apology means nothing when you outright lie during it. Anyone who has seen any of the information that brought on the investigation saw posts implicitly saying that RKK and BoB directors knew he was there and received information from him. They also paid him for use of the BPOs after he left the corp the first time he was outed. I hope he gets terminated but the CEO post seems to be trying to weasel out of having to do that.
Just another stepping stone of trying to sweep things under the rug.
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MuthaTrucka
Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp.
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:10:00 -
[106]
So let me gets this straight T20 was on the Overwatch team. He game material help in game to BoB, Covered his own Ass and now asks for forgiveness?
So basically I am being told that the constraints that were put into place, Over a year ago, Are useless as they can be manipulated by the very same people. also it takes Out of game measures to instigate an investigation yet CCP is going to ban the Whistle blower?
--------------- Don't Call me a Carebear, I don't really care about much at all.
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Milena Marich
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:10:00 -
[107]
Referee's don't play on a football team. Referee's don't play on a football team. How hard is to understand that?
Check this out: http://www.kugutsumen.com/showthread.php?t=156
It just gets bigger and bigger.
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Kerushi
Caldari Black Thorne Corporation
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:10:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Kerushi on 09/02/2007 21:07:30 and no one finds it funny that those are most of the crap bpo`s?
tip of the iceberg i`ll bet, what would happen to alliances when 600b in ship/modules bpo`s would be removed? eaier to use a scapegoat with crap bpo`s and have it go away as usuall...
who`s stupid enough to do it for a few bil only?
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Luthien Firefoot
Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:10:00 -
[109]
Seems pretty simple to me:
1) Fraud, committed by an employee is gross misconduct and should therefore result in termination of employment.
2) This is probably just the tip of the iceberg and so it's more than reasonable to assume that BOB has benefitted in the billions of isk, it's not so difficult to see now how they manage to beat the rest of EVE, is it?
3) No-one could make me believe that there are players within BOB who knew nothing about this, you're telling me that a dev did this and never spoke of it to anyone? Not once on ts? Not after a few beers? Not mentioned to the ppl building / copying the bpos? OFC he did and so whatever opinion we may have of the isk benefit to BOB, they are tainted by this and something more should be done to investigate them.
4) I am glad that ccp had the guts to be honest and reveal this, it may be late, it most certainly isn't the full story or the resolution, but it's a start.
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Aertuun
Ars Caelestis Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:11:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Aertuun on 09/02/2007 21:08:23 So, what we have here:
1. The one allegation that can actually be tested using in-game logs is admitted, and turns out to be true.
2. The two allegations that cannot actually be tested at all are rigorously denied. How convenient!
Did T20 lie about it at the time? Did he keep it secret for an entire year?
If he lied at the time, then kept it secret from his work friends and colleagues, why believe him now?
If T20 didn't lie about it at the time, that meant CCP knew about the BPOs, and chose to do nothing. CCP may have, in fact, been persuaded to do nothing.
Why, exactly, did it take some hacker to discover all this? It turns out he was right all along, and got all his accounts banned for the privilege. That could be passed off as the developers taking revenge (after all, they just had their accounts taken away from them!). Again, CCP as a company may have been... persuaded to take action.
There could also be questions about whether CCP actually wanted to reveal all this information. They only announced they would reveal more information AFTER Kieron declared the entire matter closed (how is that closed?), and after long 24 page thread of people saying they were covering something up.
And now we discover, in fact, that CCP were covering something up. They throw out a scapegoat to the masses (no-one else is to blame? How'd they find out that, then, look at more of Kugut's information?), and hope the entire matter will be overlooked without more negative coverage from Slashdot and other gaming sites.
Well, it might work.
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aggro
Minmatar Black Lance Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:11:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr Edited by: Waagaa Ktlehr on 09/02/2007 21:01:24 Sad to see how human nature can sometimes let us do wrong stuff, putting your job on the line for a stupid little advantage in a damn game ffs :(
On those people going: "OMG! Super much billions of ISK profits!"...
Sabre BPO is the only one of those that makes a decent profit, but it nowhere near the likes of Ballistic Control II, Cerberus, Nighthawk, etc.
You might be talking maybe 400m / week tops, maybe a lot to a goon, but nothing in the larger scale of things. Yes, BDCI owns a Sabre BPO.
these bpos are the ones that have been declared and can bet many more have found there way into said alliances.
Money is only part of the issue, the other part is the ceo and directors of coprp knowing and excepting the tainted bpos. this is what needs to be asked.
Winning at all cost which include hax,gms knowledge etc is so sad in this great game. I feel sorry for people willing to go down this road.
Where there is trouble you will always find AGGRO |
FireFoxx80
Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:12:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr
Originally by: FireFoxx80 As I said above. It's the immesurable differences. If a fleet decided not to attack, because the enemy had two extra T2 ships.
We'll never know.
You can buy Sabres on the market too you know... They fit in carriers, I move them all the time. :) And they're pretty dirt cheap throwaway ships at that. Don't think for a second a single Sabre BPO dictates fleet makeups. :)
But making them for [comparatively] free costs nothing.
As I said earlier, it's immesurable, and certainly unlikely. But it's still possible.
Even a BoB roaming gang then.
What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass! |
Myz Toyou
the Organ Grinder and Company Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:12:00 -
[113]
Its nice that finally light comes into the dark, but sadly the truth bringer is still banned ! On the other side, CCP cant track most of the stuff in question cos leaking information about upcomming events and game changes is not trackable but maybe more worth then these T2 bpo`s ! It also total clear that T20 says now nothing else happens and no BOB member ever knows about the cheating ! BOB stated more then once that they where real friends, would you hung your friend dry ? But I¦m still interested about the reactions from BOB, special from Dianabolic after he stated gazillion times that BOB are "UBER" and so need no Dev help !
But way to go CCP, there are still some open issues about account sharing, RL info leaking on E-O etc etc !
The real sad thing on it is that every small grunt from BOB will now earn what others have clearly known for a long time, every comming victory for BOB will have a bad taste !!! And BOB will be called from now on BOD !
Free / unbann Kugutsumen...
sry for bad english
CYVOK > All you station jockies better get out their and start killing these idiots |
nickky01
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:13:00 -
[114]
so...your telling me...
over a year ago, sitting in 9CG, listening to xirtamvolf rant and rave on teamspeak about how bob uses devs to cheat...
he was right??
/me goes to build a snowman in hell
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Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
Oh and IAC's official response to ISS's offer is lollerskates.
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DDaisy
VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:13:00 -
[115]
I trust this "blog" will be moved to the Players News Centre where it should be for all to read when they log into game.
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Midori Kumiyo
Minmatar Universal Agencies
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:14:00 -
[116]
Any business who wishes for credibility would fire this developer.
I am glad he has come out with the truth, but the statement means effectively nothing if proper punishment is not doled out.
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Cedori
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:14:00 -
[117]
So, it's time for me to toss in my, admittedly newbie view point on things.
First off, let me go on the record. I'm not an alt, I'm a person who just started playing the game in December. And I'm loving it so far. I'm nowhere near jumping into the deep end of 0.0 due to limited playtimes with my school schedule either.
To this point, this investigation seems to be a case of "whelp, we got caught, let's give up enough to move on". The BPO's were the most obvious issue with the formerly accused activities. But basically 3 main accusations were made.
1) Certain members of the EVE Dev staff were in high end corps, and specifically in BoB, with at least one being a director of RKK 2) Said Dev/Director, transfered 10 BPO's to RKK that were gained illicitly. 3) Said Dev/Director, provided insight, intelligence, and information to BoB concerning ingame events.
Two of those accusations are true. They've been admitted as such. Combined with what the effect of the second activity entails, I find it hard to believe that the Dev/Director in question never passed on additional information/intelligence to the rest of the BoB leadership. An innocent comment in one light, directly translates to malicious intent in another.
This leads to my main point. While I appreciate the thought that it is not possible to properly balance this game without being able to play it, it should be a rule set in stone from up on high, that no Dev can join any of the "high-end" alliances, and no Dev should EVER become a director within said alliance. Human nature being what it is, nobody can reasonably be expected to not take sides/play favorites with a corp that they are a director of. Merely having Devs in these corps is enough to paint the whole exercise with an unfavorable light, and having one as a director will lead directly to accusations of favoritism. And has been shown by this entire unfortunate affair, accusations tend to be true if they're backed up with evidence.
Therefore, set, publish, and enforce a set of rules for Dev's not being allowed to play the game in an kind of position that would compromise their neutrality. As it stands now, these crimes have no real bearing on me due to my play styles, but they absolutely leave me with a nasty taste in my mouth. I eventually want to get into the 0.0 PvP alliance game, and knowing that there is even a CHANCE of impropriety will probably cause me to quit. This game is challenging enough without the famous "sandbox" that is EvE Online being stacked against you.
I also believe that the charactor who originally uncovered this(kung something, bad with names) should have his accounts unbanned. He did nothing that is not done by other "high end corps" of EvE, except that he managed to find a slightly sweeter honey pot of information then most corp spys tend to do. In fact this activity, when done by BoB and the like is condoned as "part of the game" by the Dev Staff. But when said activities out one of their own, suddenly it's a bannable offence.
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Raketefrau
Caldari Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:15:00 -
[118]
So in total, the end result of this is that some T2 BPOs go back into the lottery, and Kugutsmen gets banned.
Um, CCP? Does this in ANY WAY seem like a just conclusion to all this?
How 'bout:
SELECT isk FROM sales where ITEM='sabre' AND ALLIANCE='BOB'
Take the money back. Deal with Sir Molle in the same way you've dealt with Kugutsmen. At least Kugutsmen was in the right on this, Sir Molle was just being vindictive for actually getting caught.
We've had to force you to take even these few steps you've taken, PLEASE don't force the community into demanding actual justice for the crimes commited.
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Kyra Azor
Silver Train
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:15:00 -
[119]
I am shocked. Actually the accusation that proved to be true was the most innocent one but also the only traceable. I didn't imagine a dev spawning T2 BPOs and not very good ones too. Sorry t20, but it was stupid. If I was a dev trying to benefit my in-game character or my friends, I would use my inside information. For example what's a Sabre BPO compared to the information of damage control upgrade or the Expanded Cargohold BPO upgrade.
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Sgt Napalm
Synergy Evolved Serenity Fallen
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:16:00 -
[120]
I sure hope t20 won't lose his job
Sometimes finding the truth hurts
Retired [ISSN]
[Video] Skool of Harpy - Da Blarpy |
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