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t20 and Hellmar speak on recent events

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
FGxHalsey Freedom Guard Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.09 21:16:00 - [121] Removing and reseeding those BPO's was the right thing to do. I would ask that CCP does NOT attempt to retroactively remove any resultant BPC's, isk, or items created with those BPO's because most of those players involved are probably innocent and unaware that the items/money aquired were illigitimate. 1) I think CCP needs to specifically address the account sharing issue. 2) In the future, CCP should remember that even the appearance of impropriety is bad for the game and their relations with the community. I think you've taken the first steps towards restoring player confidence in the company but it will take time and a visible, serious commitment to stop cheating.
Dano Sarum Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.02.09 21:16:00 - [122] Its pretty rediculous that a DEV can be allowed to spawn a bunch of T2 BPO's on TQ and it take 6 months + for any questions to be asked, had the community not kicked up about it would this be simply left as it is? Not long ago I remember a post stating how internal auditing had gotten much stricter, I really don't understand why on earth any DEV needs to be spawning stuff on his DEV accounts / characters let alone feels the need to pass them on to himself. You really have to ask yourself is this just corruption on CCPs part or plain incompetence. Frankly I'm a little dissapointed, with rumors abound of "zomg can't compete in eve, players who started 2/3 years before me I can never catch up to" and "whats the point, GM/ISD chars just exploit the information they have" you would really hope that you guys would have stricter rules and controls in place for this. This is blatant abuse on t20's part, I really really really find it unlikely that a person willing to be stupid enough to spawn high profile items for themselves wouldn't do other, more minor and less tracable things to gain an advantage for himself or others. And doing this so publically... I mean damn really, unless you intend to make a serious example of what happened here and severly tighten up your security (especially the DEV's) then this whole story should never have become public, it looks really really bad for the game. ______ <Insert Sig Here>
Blitter Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.02.09 21:16:00 - [123] Originally by: Cyrus Ildemar Beyond all the things that have been brought up, I'd like to bring up an issue that came up yesterday. A GM was spotted in a Polaris Frigate in 28y, warping from moon to moon. This was a day before BoB declared that they would attack us. We have screenshots, and the GM's name. Frankly, I don't mean to be paranoid or accuse anyone of improper conduct without proof, but perhaps given the circumstances, some tinfoil hattery is justified. Was there a reason for that GM to be checking out our moons? Is this going to be a regular feature of this war? Definitely would like this addressed. Why would a GM be scanning moons in a dead end station system the day before a BoB wardec when you guys haven't shown us any attention for months? Dismissing the income and effect of these BPOS is laughable. Until recently my entire alliance had 0 t2 BPOs. The profit of a single sabre BPO would have made up a significant part of our war chest 6 months ago (admittedly not now). The first post on the matter was sadly incomplete and remains incomplete -- there's still a Hel flying around that was cheated for and completely glossed over. You say it's been too long to investigate? I say you're wrong. Here's the thread. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=405587 Goonfleet had eyes on the target station the entire time. That's 4 freighters worth of goods. One freighter docked. The ISD tipoff was even ADMITTED at the time, yet nothing was done. Just like that issue, many of us feel the more recent issues run far deeper than your response indicates. There's also the issue that you guys have shot the messenger repeatedly when the stuff he's produced has been repeatedly verified to be true. He who is not to be named needs his accounts back.
Fred0 Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.09 21:16:00 - [124] Edited by: Fred0 on 09/02/2007 21:13:22 I've lost faith in the game now. I think you are lying through your teeth ccp, it's obvious from the logs that CCP developers have shared information with RKK directors and yet you refute it. First you tried to hide this under the carpet and now you are limiting your guilt as much as you can, is your stance that the kugutsumen logs where DimZ acknowledges inside information from ccp are fake? Is the instance where he says he passed it on to the rest of the directorship also fake?
Nullity Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.09 21:18:00 - [125] If one lost a ship or pod to a BOB Sabre or to any of the ammo types listed can one expect to be reimbursed fully?
FalconHawk Amarr Falcon Advanced Industries	Posted - 2007.02.09 21:19:00 - [126] hmmmm 1) fire him .... not realy an option, when he did a good job it¦s ok, we are all just human and it¦s up to his boss 2) i think we still don¦t believe that is everything, for example the gm ship scouting in regions where BOB wants to go, it happened not only in goon space, friend just told me that it already happened a while back when his corp wanted to drop a pos in bob space to claim souvereignity and only a gm ship was in the system and suddenly 30-40 BOB spawned ... 3) as the recent event have discovered the tools to check the GMs, DEV and ISD staff are not effective anymore. ccp needs to find a new way to make sure that stuff like this will never happen again. 4) no clue, don¦t like rumors so i stop here
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.02.09 21:19:00 - [127] Seems like more and more of the evidence uncovered and released on K's forum is being validated. How long until the rest of the accusations are also confirmed, or does the community have to pitch a fit over every last detail until CCP takes it seriously? There's still a whole laundry list of issues that isn't being covered here, whether they are completely separate, or related to the accusations that have already been confirmed.
Lasanna	Posted - 2007.02.09 21:19:00 - [128] Though I don't condone the whistleblowers out of game behavior(obtaining the information) If the sacrificial lamb keeps his job, the whistleblower should also be allowed back. It's not right to punish him for out of game activities, unless your willing to fully punish your employee with termination, per your own rules. As his actions have clearly put a spotlight on employee actions you now admit had been allowed to fester into this mess. It's a bit difficult to ask us to forgive your employee, if CCP can't find the heart to forgive the whistleblower.
Bombcrater DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.09 21:19:00 - [129] Okay, that addresses the accusations of dev cheating (but in a very sparse and unsatisfactory way). But what about the rest? Kugutsumen's information showed multiple examples of EULA violations from people in BoB sharing accounts. Those allegations need to be investigated and the results released.
Heintron Caldari Ginnungagaps Rymdfarargille Tre Kroner	Posted - 2007.02.09 21:19:00 - [130] Unfortunate that it took a whistleblower to get this out in the open, and that fact makes you wonder what might be going on that he missed. Even more unfortunate that he is now banned for actions that "others" hasn't been banned for. The taint of favouritism of a certain alliance will be hard to wash off. I for one would like to know what guidelines Dev's must follow when in a position to change the delicate balance of power in eve. Do devs have somekind of eula? In other words, I would like to have somekind of quality insurance in this game. If possible :P

Laudicia LV2 Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.02.09 21:20:00 - [131] anymore ilegal bpo`s ingame?>
Hilabana Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.02.09 21:20:00 - [132] I do hope t20 keeps working for CCP for a person to make one error in a game is not impotent enuff to have what they love taken from them ! And as for all the damn cry babys out there if you worry more about your own corp mates selling there own char for real money or having some ISK seller working with them or next to them the game will get a lot better ! For shame on you that points a finger even after it has been fix ! Many of you that are crying about this sound like little kids fighting over what person may have more candy then them!
Sakura Nihil Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.02.09 21:20:00 - [133] I'm going to join the bandwagon calling for t20's head on this one, it is outright cheating to do what he's done. Returning the BPOs now are a half-assed measure at settling the score, I fully hope his employment is terminated.
Verite Rendition Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2007.02.09 21:20:00 - [134] Originally by: DDaisy I trust this "blog" will be moved to the Players News Centre where it should be for all to read when they log into game. Out of everything here, this is a great idea. All players need to know about this, not just those of us who are active in the forums. ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic
Moph Minmatar Infinitus Odium Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.09 21:21:00 - [135] Edited by: Moph on 09/02/2007 21:20:27 Everyone arguing how the bpo's arent worth much... the reason is that it will be less noticed than if they were hac bpo's.. i think ccp should handle t20's case with the community's interests in mind. However i say that t20 should be fired due to ccp stating before that any interferance by a dev/gm will not be tolerated
dokkillo Amarr 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.02.09 21:21:00 - [136] Edited by: dokkillo on 09/02/2007 21:22:51 this is my third year in Eve, i have 2 accounts and I own a spanish eve fansite, I have a lot of EON magazines, and i was thinking to go to next Fanfest (i must go to london first and later to iceland.. thats is much money) but now i am very sad.... Because in this moment i am not sure if trust or not in CCP.. I feel all this i played, all these wars, all these political affairs are false.. i dont know.. i feel bad...
Laendra	Posted - 2007.02.09 21:21:00 - [137] Originally by: Raketefrau Edited by: Raketefrau on 09/02/2007 20:52:27 I don't understand why the whistleblower is being punished. He rooted out wrongdoing, CCP was actually forced to take action, and for that he gets banned? If he hadn't outed the toons (who had already outed themselves to their corpmates), none of these "illegal" activities would have come to light, and CCP would still be sweeping everything under the rug. Kugutsmen, I appreciate what you've done for the Eve community. It's a pity CCP can't see it that way. How much similar activity is going on that we don't know about? This one case gets revealed, and CCP, after being dragged hesitantly through the mud, reaches out with a horrible reaction. How do we know that this isn't continuing to happen elsewhere in the universe? What faith are now supposed to have in CCP's watchguarding abilities? How are we supposed to trust the fact that CCP isn't sweeping other, lesser-known "crimes" under the rug as well? You honestly can't see why he was banned? Regardless of his intentions, he hurt the community. He had to know that his actions would hurt the community as a whole. And he revealed Dev player accounts, knowingly, even those that were not involved in any wrongdoing, ******* those devs over in the process. For those actions alone, he should be perma-banned. One could draw up numerous r/l comparisons here, but to summarize...the ends do not justify the means....ever. -------------------
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2007.02.09 21:21:00 - [138] Originally by: ZaKma While t20 did something he shouldn't have done, I really hope he doesn't get fired. He's been with the community for a long time. It's not like the BPO's made some huge difference in terms of isk or advantage or anything. It's wrong of course, but nothing staggering. QFE! I love the work of T20 very much! Just as I love the work and dedication of the other devs! Even if what he did was wrong, it is easy to take a few steps wrong now and then. So I hope T20 will stay with us! I want to return the words from some devs made in a post a long time ago. I cant find the post but it was about CCP accepting the appology from a player member from Las Vegas who was part of the people who arranged the gathering there. It takes some solid brass balls to come up with the appology. I think we all in the best game spirit should accept his appology and continue with the game! T20! You have proved your dedication many time to EVE online! Now I return the dedication for you the devs! For me, this is now history! And I hope the others view it the same way as me!! Niccolado Originally by: Eldo Davip PORTRAITS OMFG WOOT. WE R GONIG FOR MROE BREEE!!!!11
Sinlare Gallente Sinlare Auditorium	Posted - 2007.02.09 21:21:00 - [139] The people supporting the hacker are even worse. shame on you and shame on ccp for not relaying they caught a cheating dev when they actually caught him.
Shanzem DarkStar 1	Posted - 2007.02.09 21:22:00 - [140] Warned time and time again. wounder if all of the BoB members knew? oh and i hope your sacking T20. -------------------------------------------

LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2007.02.09 21:22:00 - [141] Edited by: LUGAL MOP''N''GLO on 09/02/2007 21:20:30 I could give a crap less how long T20 has been working for CCP. He stole from CCP and he essentially stole from 140,000 people playing this game. And to those people saying... "Those T2 BPO's aren't even that good" I'd love to have any T2 bpo - contract it to me if it sux so bad. ~~~~~~~~~ Hi. I'm Rock. Make Eve good for rock. Give me scissor arms!
Poolpy dev zero	Posted - 2007.02.09 21:23:00 - [142] Originally by: Sinlare The people supporting the hacker are even worse. shame on you and shame on ccp for not relaying they caught a cheating dev when they actually caught him. Like using social engineering to access out of game assets (forums/ts) it's not the same thing ? (hint kevin mitnick hint).
IHaveTenFingers Caldari ADVANCED Combat and Engineering Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2007.02.09 21:23:00 - [143] Originally by: Tea Spoon Just removing the BPO's is a very lenient punishment, especially as the ones having had the benefit of having them all this time have a chance of getting them back. Both t20 and Hellmar hope very much this will be the end of this affair but I doubt that is the case. By handing out items of such vast importance in the game the balance has been greatly disturbed, and the actions taken do very little to rectify this. I stand a good chance of being blown up in the near future by the Spike L ammo that exists only because of the fraudulent actions taken in the past and any losses caused by this should be petitionable as an exploit. I have to agree with this. Perhaps the parties who recieved the fraudulent BPO should be ineligible to get it back? just a thought. ------------------------------------
SamuraiJack Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp.	Posted - 2007.02.09 21:23:00 - [144] one wonders about the extra complexes in delve getting looked at now? at least the bpos issue is sorted. SJ. CLS Director =-
Illistar DeathWing	Posted - 2007.02.09 21:23:00 - [145] Huh... Well, I don't know what else to say other then express my sadness. It bad enough that this happend but it had to have happend in an allience like bob? I have no ill feelings towards them but seriously they didn't need the help, nor the funds, they already dominate eve for the most part.
Gummi The Short Bus Squad	Posted - 2007.02.09 21:23:00 - [146] CCP+BOB pushed, but the community pushed back, now thats a f**** Pendulum**. I feel sorry for kieron as he got a lot of flack as he posted clearly without all the facts. It's a dark day indeed, but we will get over it.
Loyal Servant Caldari The Short Bus Squad	Posted - 2007.02.09 21:24:00 - [147] It is simple: devs should not play this game. that is what the TEST SERVER is for. CCP - all your saying here is that your going to plug the leaks that allowed us to find out in the first place. Next time it happens, and there is no way for the public to know, you will just get away with it, is that the way it works around here? TSBS - Eve's Premier podding service!
FnkyTwn GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.02.09 21:24:00 - [148] Originally by: Cyrus Ildemar Beyond all the things that have been brought up, I'd like to bring up an issue that came up yesterday. A GM was spotted in a Polaris Frigate in 28y, warping from moon to moon. This was a day before BoB declared that they would attack us. We have screenshots, and the GM's name. Frankly, I don't mean to be paranoid or accuse anyone of improper conduct without proof, but perhaps given the circumstances, some tinfoil hattery is justified. Was there a reason for that GM to be checking out our moons? Is this going to be a regular feature of this war? Hopefully Kugutsumen is able to get to the bottom of it because apparently CCP aren't willing to without articles being written up on major gaming news sites. BluesNews, ShackNews, Slashdot, FiringSquad, Razorwire Investigation and Razorwire Conclusion, WarCry, MMORPG.com, MarkovForums, Kotaku, The Inquirer I don't care if T20 came up with the original idea for EVE, he needs to be FIRED. He needs to lose his job so that others within CCP and even at other gaming companies understand just how serious an issue this is. Hopefully CCP doesn't just blow off 150k registered customers in favor of one corrupt and immoral developer, unless of course this problem runs a lot deeper than T20 alone. The proceeds BoD was able to generate from that Sabre BPO would have been enormous over the time that they had it; it was a cornerstone of other BPO purchases and fuel for the fleets that destroyed ASCN. T20 had a direct and intentionally malicious hand in the dismantling of one of the largest corporations in the game. I hope the Titan memorial reflects that. Hopefully BoB will be able to gracefully climb down off their high horse now as i'd imagine most of their members had zero knowledge of these events and that they should hold their management directly responsible for their tremendous loss of e-honor today.
Helmut 314 Amarr J.H.E.N.R Pure.	Posted - 2007.02.09 21:24:00 - [149] The BPO are of little concern, their value isnt so great as to make any real difference for a corp of Reikokus size. It does put the spotlight on the big problem : corp and alliance loyalty of players that happen to be devs. Unless you have been involved in alliance politics on some level or have run a corp I dont think you realize how important the bonds between people in Eve are. Its what keeps things going and also what makes alliances collapse. Its also one of the things that sets Eve apart from other games. The statement from T20 leaves a lingering thought in my head that I dont think will ever go away : If his corpmates were so important that he spawned 30B+ of BPO risking his employment and then left them to them, whats to say that this is the only advantage he gave them, asked for or not ? Stuff thats NOT traceable via server logs... ________________________________ Trying is the first step of failure - Homer J Simpson
Niaski Zalani Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.02.09 21:24:00 - [150] Originally by: Milena Marich Referee's don't play on a football team. Referee's don't play on a football team. How hard is to understand that? Check this out: Link removed as content is against the EVE Forum Rules - Serathu ([email protected]) It just gets bigger and bigger. The content that is against the EVE forum rules just happened to be the reason that this whole mess got uncovered. So why is that content against the rules anyway? Because if we're going to go that way, you might as well make links to the gaming sites and slashdot that carried the news about this whole dev-induced mess "against the rules" as well. Seems CCP's endeavour in China has taught them the art of censorship. ...Free Kugutsumen...



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