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t20 and Hellmar speak on recent events

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Anatolius Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.11 19:32:00 - [2401] Originally by: Nils Bohr Pretexting is a crime in California. I have no idea whether hacking is against the law where K lives, nor whether pretexting is against the law where BoB's forums/TS spies live. But both can be considered "criminal activity." Please stop already. This is more INTARNET LOYERZ!!!!!!!!11111111 bull***, along the same lines of those warnings on public FTP servers insisting government workers can't connect to them, or that ever worthless "LOL ROMS U NEED 2 DELETE THEM AFTER 24 HOURS!" (Hi, you're still comitting copyright infringement.) Pretexting? You're talking about someone knowingly giving access to forums/TS to another party. In the context of a roleplaying game*. LOL ILLEGAL!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111 More like, "LOL! Have fun being laughed out of court." "If God be for us, whom can be against us?"
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.02.11 19:37:00 - [2402] XirtamVotf, and your maximum loss in Eve is zero, in the law. I await the filing of your charges against the spies in your corp with interest. //Maya
Zothike RABBLE-RABBLE	Posted - 2007.02.11 19:38:00 - [2403] Edited by: Zothike on 11/02/2007 19:36:55 Edited by: Zothike on 11/02/2007 19:35:41 http://www.zothike.com/eve/iceberg.jpg gimp lvl 0.05 ftw
vipeer Celestial Horizon Corp.	Posted - 2007.02.11 19:43:00 - [2404] Originally by: Maya Rkell Edited by: Maya Rkell on 11/02/2007 18:36:23 vipeer, give it up. You said precisely that. And where are the leaders of MOST alliances? There's a reason for that y'know... they're ALL guilty, of course. ONE accusation made by the hacker was correct. ONE. This does not then follow that the rest are. That you chose to tinfoil hat is your business. Now you're just being silly. Why would leaders of all alliances feel the need to say they are not cheaters because nobody has yet to show us proof of other alliances receiving favouritism from CCP in one way or another. I would hope CCP will soon uncover the whole extent of the matter at hand so we can all go back to pew pew or whatever you like to do in EVE. Problem is they did not disclose the facts we're discussing here and were actively denying them up until the point the whole proof was laid out for everyone to see. A person in the know who i cannot disclose here told me the recent posts from CCP are only a coverup. Two thousand and some people are calling CCP's bluff here alone. Im afraid that EVE, the game that i like very much will die off because of CCP's inability to set a clear line on where games stop and business begins. Please. Boot the baddies now and regain the appearance of impartiallity you had in my eyes from my beginning in october 2004 all the way up to the time the war with BOD began when node crashed like 10 times a day and BOD logged in first to slaughter ASCN pilots logging back in but CCP turned a blind eye. CCP please fix these problems please so we all can continue to enyoy this top notch game. Levelled playing field is the highest ideal CCP should be aiming for. That's why all the new stuff is coming in, that's why all the fixes are made, that's why they have 200 people on staff. To provide a levelled playing field for ALL 150+ thousand of their paying customers. One bad employee can destroy what 200 have been working for very easily. I don't know what T20 does but i get a hint he's an artist of somekind. If he really is that good keep him on staff but not until he comes clean on all his dealings with BOD. I among other find it hard to belive he would risk his employement over a few T2 BPOs. There surely is sometihng more to it. If he did do only that then he really is a dumbass and deserves to get the boot. Chaining BoBo in south Feyth:
Hauler McTote	Posted - 2007.02.11 19:46:00 - [2405] Quote: Where is the article on Eve-O's front page? How is the casual customer to learn of this -- from the company, or from other, probably disgruntled, customers? "Understanding the forum structure" is all well and good once you KNOW that something has happened, but misses the point: bad news doesn't get better with time. CCP should be the first to greet their players with this troubling story -- instead, they begrudgingly admit wrongdoing and pronounce half-measures to correct it only to customers who have started digging for the facts. What is there to justify further trust? I suppose people could fly around in Empire and link this thread in each systems Local if they wanted to...
Tarkan Kador Amarr PanTarkan Kador Holdings	Posted - 2007.02.11 19:46:00 - [2406] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Much of the outrage is because it's BoB. I agree totally. That's why you don't act like an arsehat that makes everyone sick, and relish it, like BoB does. Because when something like this comes up, you have the goodwill of the players to want to see the thing done fairly, with restraint, and forgiveness. There has been no heartfelt apology from BOB, and even if they give one, the players here wouldn't believe it was heartfelt anyway, because of all the inflamatory crap over the years. Machiavelli once said that, "the prince should nonetheless make himself feared in such a mode that if he does not acquire love, he escames hatred, because being feared and not being hated can go together very well." BOB isn't just feared, it is hated by many, and if they aren't hated by CCP, they certainly aren't looked at as warmly after all of this. Therefore, is it any suprise that the majority here want the book thrown at BOB? Please resize your signature picture to be no more than 24000 bytes, 400x120 pixels. - Devil ([email protected])
XirtamVotf Vengeance of the Fallen Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.11 19:47:00 - [2407] Poor poor maya always sidestepping and misconstruing, you still havent enlightened us , is that coming ?
Slash Harnet Minmatar Industrial Services INC	Posted - 2007.02.11 19:49:00 - [2408] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Originally by: Booster Junkie Originally by: Le Pecarosh Kieron, many people are still waiting for a simple answer to a simple question: Why wasn't SirMolle banned for posting someone's real-life details? Thank you. That's an excellent question, and needs to be answered. He posted on the forums. Rarely do actions on the forums get an in-game punishment. This is what Kugutsumen was banned for: TOS 16. You may not engage in any activity that increases the difficulty and/or expense of CCP in maintaining the EVE Online client, server, web site or other services for the benefit and enjoyment of all its users. 18. You may not communicate, post or publicize any subscriber's personal information within the EVE Online game world or website. Note there is no mention of hacking. If you want to read more check his site, that should be enough to prove my point. Not saying he was right in whatever he did, but either he should come back or SirMolle (and all his accounts) should be banned. signature removed ... Pirlouit I finally got my sig nerfed once, I feel like a forum warrior!
Natalie Scarlett	Posted - 2007.02.11 19:49:00 - [2409] Originally by: Patch86 .... The fact that an actual staff member at CCP cheated, and was NOT fired, was NOT banned from playing the game, was NOT threatened with real legal consequences, and did NOT even have their cheating reversed (only now, after 6 months, are the BPOS being returned).........its unbelievable. Forgiveness? CCP, you better get earning, because trust is diicult to get back....... Its hard to believe, dont you think?
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.02.11 19:51:00 - [2410] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 11/02/2007 19:50:06 Xirtam, try using logic and arguments rather than vague handwaving. vipeer, no, I'm being practical. They can't say they don't cheat because they DO. Don't try and tinsel with favouratism, them breaking the EULA is the relevant point there. "actively denying them" Not saying anything is not a denial, as much as certain US lawyers try and prove otherwise. "A person in the know who i cannot disclose here " You claim special knowledge, right, that only you can (stop forrest fires!) know the truth and that everything would be doubleplus good if things were done as you say. Pull the other one! You're calling for transparency while not being transparent. A serious question... are Hackfleet paying their shills these days? "There surely is sometihng more to it." The evidence from MMO's from Ultima Online on is that employees do indeed risk their jobs for relatively trivial things. This is not unexpected, all that IS to me in this is that CCP have taken this long to have a dedicated internal affairs department. Slash Harnet, because he didn't hack CCP's servers, right. That dosn't make the hacking he did any less illegal, of course. Kalavoz, you can't even post your own email address here - I was warned for that several years ago. //Maya
Kalavoz Caldari Calista Industries	Posted - 2007.02.11 19:52:00 - [2411] Everything done by T20 can be forgiven (yet not forgotten) in my mind; his star is low in the CCP office, and he will be watched closely for future misconduct. Everything that has happened, my faith in CCP is enough to believe that they will prevent this from happening again. However, what will decide for me if my subscription continues towards CCP is this - CCP, please inform me what measures you will take to prevent a players real life information from being posted on this board?
Mikael Deco	Posted - 2007.02.11 19:54:00 - [2412] Originally by: Ebedar (snip) Insofar as the BPOs are concerned, I'm curious whether they count towards the total number of each BPO released, e.g. were (for example) 20 Sabre BPOs released in total (including the illegal one) or were 21 released because of the spawned one? If the former is true, then a section of players have been cheated out of legitimate chances to obtain said BPOs. If the latter is true, then RKK were given a distinct advantage not open to other corps (and one has to wonder how the presence of an extra T2 BPO went undetected as well). I am also very interested in this answer as well. Did t20 spawn an extra BPO or did he steal it from the lottery pool. If he spawned an extra why was there no red flags raised? And if he stole it from the lottery pool i want to be reimbursed for the money i paid CCP for my subscription during the time it took to train up to be able to use 5 agents and the mission grinding i spent to get the lvl 4 agents to start my research. I want reimbursment because it wasn't on fair grounds.
Nim9i5	Posted - 2007.02.11 19:55:00 - [2413] you can't pervent a hacker -- people hacks banks with highest security anyhow
XirtamVotf Vengeance of the Fallen Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.11 19:57:00 - [2414] Quoting Maya And you are using the wrong rules, of course. Section B of the EULA asserts CCP's rights to your character's identity. And demanding the personal information linked to it is thus a breach of CCP's rights in the matter, as it infringes the third parties EULA-asserted right to privacy. If you're a law student, you'll have access to that recent precident. Oh boy you just said a mouthful,so Sir molle gets away with it, knug bets banned, wow thats fair
Liquid Vision Caldari Liquid Research	Posted - 2007.02.11 19:57:00 - [2415] You'd think CCP would want to fix this issue so: A) Their playerbase wouldn't hate them and B) So Kugutsumen doesn't hack THEIR system and spill the dirt on all THEIR logs. Jesus, can you imagine the pandemonium if we actually got ahold of ALL the info going down there in Iceland?
XirtamVotf Vengeance of the Fallen Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.11 20:02:00 - [2416] I guess maya just defeated himself, with handwaving and logic ?
Slash Harnet Minmatar Industrial Services INC	Posted - 2007.02.11 20:04:00 - [2417] Originally by: Maya Rkell ... I'd laugh harder if they banned all of Goonfleet for the client side hack. Yeah, that is another huge issue that people keep forgetting about. Not completely related, but something should be done. /Especially if I'll get the stuff back a goon blew up signature removed ... Pirlouit I finally got my sig nerfed once, I feel like a forum warrior!
XirtamVotf Vengeance of the Fallen Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.11 20:08:00 - [2418] Edited by: XirtamVotf on 11/02/2007 20:07:13 You would be fun to sit across in courtroom with a jury, the EULA, I NEVER said anythign about that "objection your honor defense counsel is not a telepath " His Honor "Objection sustained' defense counsel im warning you to tread carefully on this ground. My personal observation of the EULA being enforced was the question OBIMAYA
Irrilian Quetzalcoatl Inc	Posted - 2007.02.11 20:11:00 - [2419] Understandably this debate is somewhat heated, it does revolve around something we all care about greatly, something we devote so much of our energies on whatever our current in game allegiances. Some one mentioned Truth and Reconciliation earlier, I do think such might be a model for how to move forward. While some might find some satisfaction in justice and restitution for past wrongs, enacting such would be practically impossible unless everyone really wants to roll back the server? Personally I feel it would be far better to be open, honest and upfront about what has occurred and to clearly set forth policies and measures so it can not occur again. Certainly an internal investigations unit could be an a posteriori (after the fact) element, but what I feel is key would be taking steps to regain and rebuild the trust of the player base in the systems and policies of the game, to reforge the bond between player, volunteer, GM, and developer with a priori (before the fact) measures. That is, rather than relying upon a system to deal with wrong after it has occured, to put in place systems that as far as possible stop it occurring in the first place, to help keep people honest as it were. I'm a veteran of Horizons, which many people may not have heard of with good reason as sadly its crashed and burned; Ive seen corruption, abuse, backstabbing and manipulation at its worst as a company flailed about trying to do damage control from crisis to crisis; I dearly do not want to watch CCP start down that path. Ill fight tooth and claw to try to encourage CCP do what I feel is the difficult right thing to do to address the root cause of this situation, but if they wont Ill regretfully walk away. Which is something I really dont want to do because Eve is the most intriguing and interesting game Ive ever played and CCP a company I respect. Eve Wiki\|Eve Tribune\|Scrapheap challenge\|EveGeek
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.02.11 20:11:00 - [2420] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 11/02/2007 20:09:18 Originally by: XirtamVotf You would be fun to sit across in courtroom with a jury, the EULA, I NEVER said anythign about that "objection your honor defense counsel is not a telepath " His Honor "Objection sustained' defense counsel im warning you to tread carefully on this ground. Funny, I never mentioned telepathy. It'd help if you read my posts. Irrilian, Horizons was like that from practically the day it was announced. It'd take a LOT more to send CCP down to anything LIKE their level. //Maya
JorjaFox	Posted - 2007.02.11 20:12:00 - [2421] I've read "On Recent Allegations" and find it a little suspicious. Are we to belive that this self proclaimed BPO theif has entered into and successfully completed a full investigation, to come to the absolutely accurate conclusion that the bulletted items in the list are NOT true except for his? This is doubtful, and because of its presence i'm inclined to believe it may be trying to divert suspicion from himself or others. ..And only a handful of BPOs? has CCP verified this is the extent of it? Hard to belive that if one was inclined to break the rules to steal only a small handful of items? I am not convinced. I do not feel assured that CCP actually does take cheating as seriously as they say. Either that, or they lack the staff and/or tools do do a proper investigation. OR maybe they are not telling us everything?
zakatai	Posted - 2007.02.11 20:13:00 - [2422] So what has happened to T20? Sad to see what has happened. Stupid mistake.
Slash Harnet Minmatar Industrial Services INC	Posted - 2007.02.11 20:16:00 - [2423] Originally by: zakatai So what has happened to T20? Sad to see what has happened. Stupid mistake. No one is completely sure, but we know he won't be fired. signature removed ... Pirlouit I finally got my sig nerfed once, I feel like a forum warrior!
XirtamVotf Vengeance of the Fallen Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.11 20:19:00 - [2424] The reference and quote had nothing to do with fair, you were speculating that it had inferrances of that on your own, the EULA was rather clear, the fair part came in of my own personal view of the matter of it being enforced across the board, same for KNUG as for Sir molle, they acted upon Knug instantly, they deleted Sir Molles threat and statements from view. He is still playing the game, and posting Tick Tock messages, heh wonder if its for himself at this point. I love lawyers who use the defense of who said its fair ? you seem to fall into that category
Athelas Loraiel Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp.	Posted - 2007.02.11 20:21:00 - [2425] Edited by: Athelas Loraiel on 11/02/2007 20:20:50 can Kieron reply Why did bob in delve get so many mmore plexes then the others? (plexes that are good, 6/10 and better) ooh yes, eve search has uncensored duplicates of posdts made on eve-o, so if you wanna see something that was removed, check there. -------------- On the lookout for /restricted word that means ppl who work on the game/ in BOD disguise.
Gyny	Posted - 2007.02.11 20:27:00 - [2426] I just canceled my account. Later.
Nils Bohr	Posted - 2007.02.11 20:27:00 - [2427] Originally by: Nim9i5 so if i cheat, i won't get banned? nice to know Depends. Which alliance are you in?
Megadon Caldari Deathshead Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.11 20:30:00 - [2428] Thats about the stupidest boneheaded thing someone could do t20.
Nils Bohr	Posted - 2007.02.11 20:32:00 - [2429] Originally by: Maya Rkell Edited by: Maya Rkell on 11/02/2007 19:34:23 Edited by: Maya Rkell on 11/02/2007 19:21:09 Edited by: Maya Rkell on 11/02/2007 19:19:44 Originally by: XirtamVotf Wow so Mutual Assent does not apply eh Maya? and the the community and CCP engage in Acceptance? Contacts are expressed and implied, paper doesnt need to be involved In America and Iceland, they are only written. I stopped reading right there. If you believe that all U.S. contracts need to be in writing, you know nothing about the law.
Slash Harnet Minmatar Industrial Services INC	Posted - 2007.02.11 20:32:00 - [2430] Originally by: Gyny I just canceled my account. Later. Can I have your stuff. I promise to give it to charity if I quit too signature removed ... Pirlouit I finally got my sig nerfed once, I feel like a forum warrior!

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