Originally by: Nelson Kauleon

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Yeah the Mauraders are going to be sick. From what I am looking at they are going to be like the klingon bird of preys of the game. So lets say a maurader jumps into a system with some noob ratting in a belt in say a myrmy or raven. Golem warps to the belt cloaked. Then it gets in range of the ratter drops it cloak throws up the warp disruptor field. Then it just has to lock them up and lay into them. What will be really sick is if 3-4 of these ships jump on someone. they wont even see it coming and they will have more then enough ew dps and tank to take down any target. I could even see these being used to great effect against capitals.

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Originally by: Le Skunk

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Originally by: Mr Reeth

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And your Domi will feel like a new ship with the big changes made to drones! You drone lovers should be thrilled! All your drone ships are getting a boost!

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The drone changes for the domi? A bigger drone bay. Whoppe do. You know how often i use my entire drones stock in PvP? Never. Either Me or He is dead in under 1 min.

SKUNK

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Originally by: Dr Ming

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Originally by: Le Skunk

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Originally by: Mr Reeth

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And your Domi will feel like a new ship with the big changes made to drones! You drone lovers should be thrilled! All your drone ships are getting a boost!

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The drone changes for the domi? A bigger drone bay. Whoppe do. You know how often i use my entire drones stock in PvP? Never. Either Me or He is dead in under 1 min.

SKUNK

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Right, because there is no reason in the world to want to carry ECM drones, EV drones, SW drones, Repair drones, or have drones for several different damage types.

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Originally by: MotherMoon

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can you list any item that not any ship can use?

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Originally by: Neuromandis

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Originally by: Zadren Radek

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For the love of God devs......PLEASE don't build the Gallente covops BS from a Dominix....and a bloody pink one at that. A Hyperion looks more the part than that big fat whale. I was looking forward to flying one, but this puts me right off

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If you're put off nby appearance, what should we Caldari gunners say? We get zero ships to play with. EW frig, heavy dictor, marauder, blackops ALL of them missileboats.

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Originally by: Kane Darkstar

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Originally by: Neuromandis

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Originally by: Zadren Radek

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For the love of God devs......PLEASE don't build the Gallente covops BS from a Dominix....and a bloody pink one at that. A Hyperion looks more the part than that big fat whale. I was looking forward to flying one, but this puts me right off

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If you're put off nby appearance, what should we Caldari gunners say? We get zero ships to play with. EW frig, heavy dictor, marauder, blackops ALL of them missileboats.

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Thats how I feel so far why are all the new Cal ships going to be missles based and not one gun ship? Or one ship based off the Rohk. So they use the Scorp model . Why don't they just delete hybirds from Caldari all together and be done with it. Why pretend that there is even another option other then missles for Caldari Players. I am glad I started to cross train ***lente now.

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Quote:

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Once they're released for full player testing and seeded on the market, more useful information will come forth in the forms of real practical combat tests, or in the case of the Marauders, how they fare in missions and complexes.

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Originally by: Miss KillSome

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Edited by: Miss KillSome on 08/10/2007 10:14:39
i dont see a point in gallente marauder..

for some armor, some resists u gain some cargohold (which is still too small for one lvl4 blockade..) and loose 3500PG and more importantly 3 guns and one missile harpoint!!

and resists on therm and kinetic only:S like we are doomed to fight serpentis for always..

In lvl4s, if u dont quickly reduce the DPS u are taking with taking npcs down, u are dead meat.

Maybe bonuses will bring something usefull to it, but till then, sucks big times..its not like we can passive tank it on shield, let our drones loose and go afk for 30minutes..

if we get 6 gun hardpoints, two highs remain for salvager and tractor beam, then this is not too bad, but with this high slots, u cannot do anything..

Why didnt we get dominix to be carebear? its drones are better weapon.

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Originally by: Abbadon Wrath

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Oh and all those people saying that Marauders will NOT only be missions ships, read this...

Quote:

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Once they're released for full player testing and seeded on the market, more useful information will come forth in the forms of real practical combat tests, or in the case of the Marauders, how they fare in missions and complexes.

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Source

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Originally by: Heknai

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bump!

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Originally by: sakana

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Originally by: MotherMoon

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can you list any item that not any ship can use?

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the current dictor bubble launcher?
covert ops cloaking device II?
doomsday devices?
jump portals?
cloning vats?
the list goes on....

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Originally by: Cailais

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Phobos 6/4/6 module slots FIVE turret hard points
- Gallente

Devoter 7/3/6 module slots FOUR turret hard points
- Amarr

Well dont ya just know it, first draft and the Amarr Interdictor Cruisers laggin behind already......

C.

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Originally by: Merin Ryskin

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Originally by: Kane Darkstar

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Originally by: Neuromandis

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Originally by: Zadren Radek

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For the love of God devs......PLEASE don't build the Gallente covops BS from a Dominix....and a bloody pink one at that. A Hyperion looks more the part than that big fat whale. I was looking forward to flying one, but this puts me right off

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If you're put off nby appearance, what should we Caldari gunners say? We get zero ships to play with. EW frig, heavy dictor, marauder, blackops ALL of them missileboats.

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Thats how I feel so far why are all the new Cal ships going to be missles based and not one gun ship? Or one ship based off the Rohk. So they use the Scorp model . Why don't they just delete hybirds from Caldari all together and be done with it. Why pretend that there is even another option other then missles for Caldari Players. I am glad I started to cross train ***lente now.

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Seriously, don't jump to conclusions here. Let's think about this. Rails require three important things:

* Cap use. This is not a trivial factor, especially on ships with other cap-hungry modules.

* Good ship bonuses. Caldari railboats depend on having that optimal bonus to be even remotely effective, and really start to shine with two of them (on the T2 ships).

* Sniper role. Short/mid-range rails aren't all that great. This means operating at long range, with most of your slots used up by SBs/TCs/etc.

Now what does this mean?

1) Ewar frig: ECM = high cap use...

2) Black ops: see above, without the tracking issue.

3) Marauder: carebearmobile...

4) Heavy interdictor: has to be close-range...

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Originally by: Kaemonn:Signature

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Originally by: kieron: off duty

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You dont have to swallow!

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Originally by: Kailiao

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Very disapointed in the new bs's, why oh why make friggin support ships, sick of cloaks and ew boats, was hopeing for a dps, high resistance bs, to help me fight the 15 to 1 odds every-day.

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Originally by: Kailiao

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Very disapointed in the new bs's, why oh why make friggin support ships, sick of cloaks and ew boats, was hopeing for a dps, high resistance bs, to help me fight the 15 to 1 odds every-day.

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Originally by: Kailiao

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Very disapointed in the new bs's, why oh why make friggin support ships, sick of cloaks and ew boats, was hopeing for a dps, high resistance bs, to help me fight the 15 to 1 odds every-day.

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Originally by: Magazaki

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Originally by: Merin Ryskin

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Originally by: Kane Darkstar

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Originally by: Neuromandis

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Originally by: Zadren Radek

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For the love of God devs......PLEASE don't build the Gallente covops BS from a Dominix....and a bloody pink one at that. A Hyperion looks more the part than that big fat whale. I was looking forward to flying one, but this puts me right off

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If you're put off nby appearance, what should we Caldari gunners say? We get zero ships to play with. EW frig, heavy dictor, marauder, blackops ALL of them missileboats.

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Thats how I feel so far why are all the new Cal ships going to be missles based and not one gun ship? Or one ship based off the Rohk. So they use the Scorp model . Why don't they just delete hybirds from Caldari all together and be done with it. Why pretend that there is even another option other then missles for Caldari Players. I am glad I started to cross train ***lente now.

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Seriously, don't jump to conclusions here. Let's think about this. Rails require three important things:

* Cap use. This is not a trivial factor, especially on ships with other cap-hungry modules.

* Good ship bonuses. Caldari railboats depend on having that optimal bonus to be even remotely effective, and really start to shine with two of them (on the T2 ships).

* Sniper role. Short/mid-range rails aren't all that great. This means operating at long range, with most of your slots used up by SBs/TCs/etc.

Now what does this mean?

1) Ewar frig: ECM = high cap use...

2) Black ops: see above, without the tracking issue.

3) Marauder: carebearmobile...

4) Heavy interdictor: has to be close-range...

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Very much understandable. Still, something is STILL missing. I simply cannot believe that, there is NO role for a caldari gunship in 4 new ship classes.
And to be honest cap use for the ECM is not THAT important, at least nothing that a capbooster/recharger/relay cannot solve.
Also, as someone has pointed out elsewhere, the heavy dictor should by based on the Moa as it is based on the tier 3 cruiser of all the other races. Yes, extremely long range is not that useful, but let us not forget Caldari can use blasters as well.
I dunno, I was just really put off by that, slap-on-the-face kind of thing as I am one of the last surviving Caldari gun-users out there. I suppose Caldari gunnery is gonna take the road of the Dodo.
You are right about people jumping to conclusions, but on the other hand, since modeling IS the most time-consuming part of designing a ship, I suppose there is not much possibility of change, and what we're seeing is going to be what we're getting as far as guns/missiles are concernced, as there's no way that a designed ship is not gonna be used, or that someone is going to be adding 6 gun hardpoints to an already completed ship. Oh well, **** happens.

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Originally by: murder one

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Wait, what? A Caldari guy complaining that there isn't a gunship? LOL?

FFS if there was one gun platform in there, the other 99% of the Caldari players would be outraged.

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Originally by: Vrognem

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Just a post for people complaining about 4 turret hard points as opposed to 8 and people assuming it will probably have a damage bonus to equal 8.

For example;
8 turrets do 1000 dps on normal ship.
4 turrets on T2 bs with (assumed) damage bonus making it do 1000 dps making each gun twice as powerful.

It is not better with 4 turrets when considering this simple reason: miss a single random shot (which happens sometimes >_<) and you have lost 1/4th of your damage. Miss a single shot on the 8 turret ship and you've lose 1/8th of your damage.
Then again, you have a higher chance of random misses with the 8 turret setup, I don't know the formulas nor am I a math whizz but I'd assume it will affect the 4 turret ship more over a short period?

In regards to the ships: they are all testing/beta ships so I wouldn't get too up in arms about exact stats/configurations or if they look like bedroom play toys .

From what I can see the tanks could be interesting with under half the HP and more resists. They may possibly have some sort of resist bonus per marauder (or whatever) level - which would bring them in line or closer to HACs resists once trained. IIRC an Amarr hac and the drake etc have that already?

-Vrog

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Originally by: Vrognem

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Just a post for people complaining about 4 turret hard points as opposed to 8 and people assuming it will probably have a damage bonus to equal 8.

For example;
8 turrets do 1000 dps on normal ship.
4 turrets on T2 bs with (assumed) damage bonus making it do 1000 dps making each gun twice as powerful.

It is not better with 4 turrets when considering this simple reason: miss a single random shot (which happens sometimes >_<) and you have lost 1/4th of your damage. Miss a single shot on the 8 turret ship and you've lose 1/8th of your damage.
Then again, you have a higher chance of random misses with the 8 turret setup, I don't know the formulas nor am I a math whizz but I'd assume it will affect the 4 turret ship more over a short period?

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Originally by: Merin Ryskin

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Originally by: Vrognem

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Just a post for people complaining about 4 turret hard points as opposed to 8 and people assuming it will probably have a damage bonus to equal 8.

For example;
8 turrets do 1000 dps on normal ship.
4 turrets on T2 bs with (assumed) damage bonus making it do 1000 dps making each gun twice as powerful.

It is not better with 4 turrets when considering this simple reason: miss a single random shot (which happens sometimes >_<) and you have lost 1/4th of your damage. Miss a single shot on the 8 turret ship and you've lose 1/8th of your damage.
Then again, you have a higher chance of random misses with the 8 turret setup, I don't know the formulas nor am I a math whizz but I'd assume it will affect the 4 turret ship more over a short period?

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Right on one point, but your conclusion is entirely wrong. Yes, you lose more damage per missed shot, but you also have fewer chances to miss a shot. Your fatal mistake is overlooking the second part: you also have the possibility of scoring far higher damage than normal. So in the long run, both are exactly equal as the effects of single random deviations are averaged out, but in the short run the 4-turret ship will have more variation in both directions. Pick a dozen gods and pray for good luck on the dice.

To give an example: 8 turrets worth of damage, 50% miss chance, assuming one roll breaks the 'average' pattern:

1 roll for all 8: +/- 100% of you damage: 0 - 8
4 rolls: +/- 25% of your damage: 3.75 - 4.25
8 rolls: +/- 12.5% of your damage: 3.875 - 4.125
1E100 rolls: +/- essentially zero: 4 damage exactly

Note how the average stays exactly the same (at 4), only the range changes, and it does so in both directions. So with the extreme all or nothing roll, you have a high chance of missing... but you also have a high chance of doing double the expected damage.

Note that in

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Originally by: Benvie

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Originally by: Thorexion Lynch

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Originally by: Benvie

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4 launcher hardpoints on the Golem (T2 Raven). That can't be correct.

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As far as I can tell the Kronos and Golem are mission ships, 4 hardpoints on each with three remaining leaving room for salvagers.....looks it the cargo holds..only possible reason for em is that they are mission wh**es

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Could be more affordable than a navy mega or a navy raven (or at least should!!!) But with a massive cargo hold like that its the only reasonable explanation ya know? and maybe they have bonus' to tank or some jazz....

But why would you use something with 4 hardpoints when you can use a Navy Raven with 7 hardpoints. Unless they get a 100% damage bonus or something crazy like that there is no point to using them.

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Originally by: Vrognem

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Edited by: Vrognem on 10/10/2007 05:39:42
Just an idea for people complaining about 4 turret hard points as opposed to 8, plus people assuming it will probably have a damage bonus to equal 8 and so on.

For example;
8 turrets do 1000 dps on normal ship.
4 turrets on T2 bs with (assumed) damage bonus making it do 1000 dps making each gun twice as powerful.

It is not better with 4 turrets when considering this simple reason: miss a single random shot (which happens sometimes >_<) and you have lost 1/4th of your damage. Miss a single shot on the 8 turret ship and you lose 1/8th of your damage.
Then again, you have a higher chance of random misses with the 8 turret setup, I don't know the formulas nor am I a math whizz but I'd assume it will affect the 4 turret ship more over a short period?

In regards to the ships: they are all testing/beta ships so I wouldn't get too up in arms about exact stats/configurations or if they look like bedroom play toys .

From what I can see the tanks could be interesting with under half the HP and more resists. They may possibly have some sort of resist bonus per marauder (or whatever) level - which would bring them in line or closer to HACs resists once trained. IIRC an Amarr hac and the drake etc have that already?

edit: Personally would have loved a pocket dread style ship for anti capital/bs fleet battle role if there is one to be made/filled but that's just me :) It would need support to tackle, use siege mod etc and would not be a solo pwn mobile.

-Vrog

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Originally by: Royaldo

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complete win by Cornucopian!

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