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Rorqual's little brother, the Orca

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Garat Mant Minmatar Moons of Pluto	Posted - 2007.10.26 15:04:00 - [1] Chronotis spills the beans on a proposed new highsec version of the Rorqual This sounds great! How to design such a beastie? What's YOUR wishlist for the proposed new Mining platform? -G -- CEO, Moons Of Pluto industrial corporation. Recruiting mature players!
Valator Uel Caldari Pax Minor Asylum Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2007.10.26 18:21:00 - [2] Just a large cargo bay/corp hangar and capital tractor beams. Helps against jetcan mining and is good for big ops. Doesn't need mineral compression since it's already in High-sec. Oh, bonus to mining leadership skills would be cool too. -----------------------------------------------------
Hilly22222 Tarnak inc.	Posted - 2007.10.26 18:39:00 - [3] and...a casino!
Chaala Stone	Posted - 2007.10.26 19:35:00 - [4] and... a petting zoo!
Cashflow Broker	Posted - 2007.10.26 19:51:00 - [5] and....and....and....a strip club :P he...mining is boring as it is, we might as well have some fun while doing it
omiNATION Gallente	Posted - 2007.10.26 20:26:00 - [6] So... basically an mini freighter with a mining link bonus. EVE, basically an MMORPG with prison rules.
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2007.10.26 21:12:00 - [7] all my letters to CCP worked! _______________ Pwett CEO and Founder [QTC]QUANT Corp.
Aykido Gallente Lobster of Babel	Posted - 2007.10.26 21:43:00 - [8] About half the size of Rorqual. No Miners No Clone Vat Bay No Jump capability Same bonus to Mining links as Roqual Capital tractors Able to Tank most low sec spawns Corp hangar Ship maintenence Bay Perfect for large ops in Stationless systems. Selling PERFECT PRINTS of all seeded T1 BPO: modules, rigs, drones, ammo and ships (2 ships missing), and most capital modules too! Also any INVENTED T2 BPC and max run invention prints in bulk!
Clansworth Point-Zero SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.26 22:41:00 - [9] Give me a mining oriented command ship, tractor bonus (like on the maurauders), little-to-no pew pew, survey scanner bonus (mega-range boost... like scan the whole belt). Seriously, just read the thread in my sig.. it's all there... Prospector Class
Transmaniacon Minmatar Strike Force Alpha	Posted - 2007.10.27 00:40:00 - [10] I like the scanner bonus idea, the ability to scan with a 100 km range, and some sort of medium ranged tractor beam. Gang bonuses, and a fair ammount of ore storage would be excellent. Without the fear of being killed, one slap on cargohold expanders and have a nice size cargohold to store lots of ore (maybe even compress too!)
Nebulae Mem Orbital Minerals	Posted - 2007.10.27 00:50:00 - [11] Wish list (IE, fantasy mining ship) Exhumers V. Leadership V, Transport ships III (would prefer a freighter skill, but they're race-based..) 275000 cargo, no jump drive. 100% bonus to mining drones, increase to tractor beam range (or a mid-sized tractor beam) 3 strips, 2 other highslots for links & tractor beams, 100% bonus to mining laser range (IE, 30k rather than 15k) And a base 35 refinery that takes skills into account... And a Quafe dispenser And a huge holoprojector to watch movies while mining
Montaire Genbuku. Daisho Syndicate	Posted - 2007.10.27 03:24:00 - [12] You all know this wont be a mining ship right ? Just a Command Platform for Miners.
Aykido Gallente Lobster of Babel	Posted - 2007.10.27 07:02:00 - [13] If it has no jump drive, and no Clone Vat Bay, and No Compression ability. The skill tree will be simple. Same as Rorqual really, without the extras: Mining Barge V Capital Industrial Ships I (or if it isn't Capital Ship, maybe Battle Cruiser 5) Maybe give it half the compression ability of the Rorqual? so at double costs per compression... Selling PERFECT PRINTS of all seeded T1 BPO: modules, rigs, drones, ammo and ships (2 ships missing), and most capital modules too! Also any INVENTED T2 BPC and max run invention prints in bulk!
mamba mo Caldari White Shadow Imperium Burning Horizons	Posted - 2007.10.28 16:54:00 - [14] THIS IDEA SHOULD BE SCRAPED!!!! with the rorqual, 0.0 mining is better and its worth mining low end ores such as veldspar and scordite however if this hi-sec verison is introduced then it will be just the same as before and people will go back to briging minrals into 0.0 by module compresion like the pasive targerter ect. my other ride has a image
Morcam	Posted - 2007.10.28 21:01:00 - [15] Ehm... sounds like a buff to the macrominers (and only the macrominers) to me . Anyone who is serious enough about mining to train and buy any mining capital ship will almost certainly already be in lowsec/0.0 (where the good ores are), and that has the Rorqual... The macrominers will certainly use it for it's gang boost (they never move out of highsec, after all), unless that is nerfed, in which case no one will use it...
D Gelalder Gallente Apraxia	Posted - 2007.10.28 21:44:00 - [16] [hijack] Using chruker's crystal ball, i saw the following item. http://eve-files.com/dl/131573 [/hijack] As for the orca, im rather curious how they plan on balancing it for high sec usage.
Shintai Gallente IonTech Corporation	Posted - 2007.10.28 23:05:00 - [17] Originally by: Morcam Ehm... sounds like a buff to the macrominers (and only the macrominers) to me . Anyone who is serious enough about mining to train and buy any mining capital ship will almost certainly already be in lowsec/0.0 (where the good ores are), and that has the Rorqual... The macrominers will certainly use it for it's gang boost (they never move out of highsec, after all), unless that is nerfed, in which case no one will use it... I dont think so. First of all compression=$$$. Secondly I dont think you can macro the rorq/orca that easily. Macro miners today also dont even use gang links. And the orca/rorq is pretty much useless on its own. But I do wish they did somethign about the macroing... Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Ford Hakata Hakata Group	Posted - 2007.10.28 23:07:00 - [18] Originally by: mamba mo THIS IDEA SHOULD BE SCRAPED!!!! with the rorqual, 0.0 mining is better and its worth mining low end ores such as veldspar and scordite however if this hi-sec verison is introduced then it will be just the same as before and people will go back to briging minrals into 0.0 by module compresion like the pasive targerter ect. I agree. A high-sec version of the Rorqual doesn't make much sense at all. With access to as many stations as there are in empire, there should be no reason at all to use an ore compression platform. There _might_ be a point to use something like that in 0.5 systems without a station, but wherever you have a station, you can also freighterhaul ore from there to one where you can refine the ore. Not very efficient perhaps, but still attractive since the freighter can be used for so much more. To compete, the Orca would have to be _very_ cheap to buy indeed. I have to say this isn't a particularly creative use of CCP resources, no matter how abundant they are. How about making the miner's life a little more interesting in other ways? More scannable mining "sites", larger variation for mining in empire... How about introducing "trace asteroids"? I.e. plain god-old high-sec asteroids that have tiny chance of yielding something more valuable than what one would expect? Look at it as a tiny chance for "hitting a gold vein". If you really want to make another mining-related ship, then why not play with other kind of support ships? How about introducing ships that can supply remote mining yield boosting or laser range, but that require a target lock and mininmum capacitor) and that even hardcore PvPers will consider using since it'll be helpful. How about an Asteroid Transfer module pair? One module basically breaks up one asteroid, transports it to the second module, which then _adds_ to the asteroid the second module is targeting... Please, a highsec Rorqual doesn't give anything new and interesting to the mining profession. Heck, even the Rorqual is quite limited in it's use. --
Morcam	Posted - 2007.10.28 23:46:00 - [19] Originally by: Shintai Originally by: Morcam Ehm... sounds like a buff to the macrominers (and only the macrominers) to me . Anyone who is serious enough about mining to train and buy any mining capital ship will almost certainly already be in lowsec/0.0 (where the good ores are), and that has the Rorqual... The macrominers will certainly use it for it's gang boost (they never move out of highsec, after all), unless that is nerfed, in which case no one will use it... I dont think so. First of all compression=$$$. Secondly I dont think you can macro the rorq/orca that easily. Macro miners today also dont even use gang links. And the orca/rorq is pretty much useless on its own. But I do wish they did somethign about the macroing... Well, just like ford said, compression is utterly worthless in highsec. There are so many stations, that it is much simpler and cheaper to just use a freighter if you don't have one in your system. Also, macro miners not using gang links is news to me... Seems very sensible to throw in an AFK BC with ganglinks to improve speed... but then, since when are macrominers sensible?
mamba mo Caldari White Shadow Imperium Burning Horizons	Posted - 2007.10.29 00:08:00 - [20] Edited by: mamba mo on 29/10/2007 00:08:58 the rorqual is useful but this proposed orca is just a waste of time, instead of steped down verion of the rprqual a stepd up version of the hulk or anover class above exhummers would be good mabey, but DO NOT bring in the orca, as well as mine fords points i think the macro minners will use this, as it would profit them to add an extra toon in for this. my other ride has a image
Verite Rendition Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2007.10.29 00:09:00 - [21] Originally by: Morcam Well, just like ford said, compression is utterly worthless in highsec. Actually it isn't. If the Orca can compress ore in high-sec, then it becomes possible and feasible to compress low-end ores (Veld & Scord mainly) for shipment to 0.0. With the trit price cap being removed and mineral compression being nerfed, this would force 0.0 alliances to buy ore directly from miners in high-sec. ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic EVE Automated Influence Map: Keeping Down The Clone Business Since 2007AD
mamba mo Caldari White Shadow Imperium Burning Horizons	Posted - 2007.10.29 00:21:00 - [22] Originally by: Verite Rendition Originally by: Morcam Well, just like ford said, compression is utterly worthless in highsec. Actually it isn't. If the Orca can compress ore in high-sec, then it becomes possible and feasible to compress low-end ores (Veld & Scord mainly) for shipment to 0.0. With the trit price cap being removed and mineral compression being nerfed, this would force 0.0 alliances to buy ore directly from miners in high-sec. this is a verry god point I overlookd however i still do not think it is worth it as the rorqual makes veld an scord minable in 0.0 and the orca would become a macro toy my other ride has a image
Lyvanna Kitaen	Posted - 2007.10.29 04:08:00 - [23] All I really want is basically a mini-freighter that can tractor and pick up cans in space. A maxed out Iteron V can only hold about 2 jetcans worth of ore. That's makes it a royal PITA to haul ore if you're mining a couple of jumps from a station. Give me something that can pick up and haul about 10-15 cans of ore from belt to station and I'd be a happy camper. Gang link capability would be welcome too but not really required. Compression, I can easily live without.
Verite Rendition Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2007.10.29 08:31:00 - [24] Originally by: mamba mo Originally by: Verite Rendition Originally by: Morcam Well, just like ford said, compression is utterly worthless in highsec. Actually it isn't. If the Orca can compress ore in high-sec, then it becomes possible and feasible to compress low-end ores (Veld & Scord mainly) for shipment to 0.0. With the trit price cap being removed and mineral compression being nerfed, this would force 0.0 alliances to buy ore directly from miners in high-sec. this is a verry god point I overlookd however i still do not think it is worth it as the rorqual makes veld an scord minable in 0.0 and the orca would become a macro toy The Rorqual doesn't really do anything for 0.0 that you couldn't do before with a small POS and a Freighter; people still aren't mining Veld in 0.0, they're still buying trit in Empire. If the Orca can compress, then this will allow such importing to continue. ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic EVE Automated Influence Map
Ishina Fel Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.10.29 10:49:00 - [25] You all realize that this ship is secretly beingintroduced to stop all the "Give Chribba A Highsec Rorqual" petition threads popping up every so often? Buff room for large link addresses in sigs plz :(
lpha centurion Confrerie des ombres	Posted - 2007.10.29 12:44:00 - [26] Edited by: lpha centurion on 29/10/2007 12:45:25 The idea of the orca is a very interesting idea : - Less cans anchored in space - You don't need to cross systems with a transport ship (or other) every 10 minutes when your corp is mining Skills needed : - Mining Barge V - Industry V - Specific ship skill I - Leadership V - Advanced Spaceship Command V - Some fu..king skills that are always needed (electronics and others) The bonus and drawbacks I would give it : - 99% reduction in CPU need for Gang Link modules - 99% reduction in CPU need for Industrial Reconfiguration modules - Can compress ore (maybe less performant that the rorqual ?) - 99% reduction in CPU need for Tractor Beams - 10-20% to drones hitpoints and damage per skill level (can have some heavy drones) - 5% bonus to bonus to effectiveness of mining foreman gang links per level when in deployed mode - 50% bonus to the range of Capital Shield Transporters per level. Drawbacks : - Cannot fit strip miners nor weapons (hybrid and others) - Have less HP than the rorqual - Cannot jump without stargate (so no fuel needed) - (very optional) Cannot be used if the Security Status of the system is <= 0.2 ? --------------------------
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2007.10.29 16:33:00 - [27] Use #2 for the orca if they have the capital tractors, I'm soooo gonna use this to salvage my missions :) _______________ Pwett CEO and Founder [QTC]QUANT Corp.
Lord DarkStar Gallente Mobile Alcohol Processing Units United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.29 18:38:00 - [28] this is a very ... interesting idea,i suspect if this ship comes it will have a big can that can be deployed into space and made use by the miners,now this idea i dont have a big problem with really,expecially if it is a secure can,but chances are they wont do anything like this,just give us an orca take away jetcans and be done with it, We of the Unicorn clan are the best horsemen in the land,our horses are our lives and brothers,we fight as one,we live as one,we die as one.
Zeph Solaris Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.29 19:57:00 - [29] Adding compression abilities would aid in moving low-end ores to 0.0. You could mine/buy the low-ends, compress them, and toss them over to a freighter/jump freighter buddy. That would be much better than just doing it all out in 0.0 or trying to get enough modules out there to refine.
Thorbjorn Brundtland PezCo - Ice Services Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.10.29 20:01:00 - [30] Anything above a Command Ship seems to be too much for Empire usage. IMO it would be just an ORE variety of Command Ships already released in EVE only with ORE specific bonuses.
Linlin Soheboshidas Gallente Eve Surveillance Corp - AP	Posted - 2007.10.30 14:06:00 - [31] Edited by: Linlin Soheboshidas on 30/10/2007 14:22:35 Why do you want a new capital who do the same things than the old ? oO Allow Rorqual to go in high sec would be faster :p I agree with Thorbjorn, a command ship would be better. Linlin dreams Quote: Blabla Command Ships Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints per level. 3% bonus to bonus to effectiveness of mining foreman gang links per level. Role Bonus: 99% reduction in Warfare Link module CPU need. Can use 3 Warfare Link modules simultaneously. Command Ships Skill Bonus or Role Bonus ? ??% bonus to Tractor Beams range (per level) ---> up to 100km? And if we keep the remote shield bonus of the Rorqual: ??% bonus to Shield Transport range ---> up to 50km? ??% reduction in Shield Transport capacitor use ??% CPU need for Shield Transporters (like basilisk because a command ship haven't as much capa as a capital ship) It's not a Capital ship so: No Clone Vat Bay No Capital Tractor Beam No Jump Capability No Corp Hangar No Ship Maintenance Bay It's not a Rorqual so: No ORE compression It's not a Mining Ship so: No Miner It's not a Hauler so: Normal cargo Capacity Quote: ??? Quote: Mining Barge V --Astrogeology III ----Science IV --Mining II ----Industry II Command Ships I --Battlecruisers V ----Spaceship Command IV --Warfare Link Specialist IV ----Leadership V --Spaceship Command V Logistics IV --Spaceship Command III --Signature Analysis V ----Electronics I --Long Range Targenting V ----Electronics II Quote: CPU : 600 ~ PWG : 1000 ~ Calibration : 400 Low : 4 Med : 6 High : 7 Launcher : 0 Turret : 0 Upgrade : 2 Pourquoi l'Homme vit il dans les extremes? Car il a peur de l'ombre qui est l'Tquilibre mOme entre la lumiere et l'obscuritT!
Clansworth Point-Zero SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.30 17:24:00 - [32] I vote for a Industrial Coordination ship: - Give it the ability to fit links, with a bonus to foreman links. This will be useful in both high-sec and 0.0, as it will give a cheaper, smaller ship to help out the gangs. - Give it either the ability to fit the capital tractor, some larger tractor (medium? large?), or a tractor range bonus. The single bigger can isn't realy all that necessary, as the foreman should be able to just pull in each miner's jetcans when full, and have them sitting there collected for the haulers to pick up. - Give it the ability to scan a much larger area. Either a new Survey scanner, or more practically, just a big boost to survey scanner range. Then the foreman can prioritize target rocks through Gang Tagging. It doens't need to compress ore, it doesn't need to have a massive hold, there just needs to be a non capital way to better organize a mining op, and this would fill that mising role. The rorqual for small mining ops is like using a sledghammer on a push pin. Prospector Class
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2007.10.30 17:43:00 - [33] I simply don't understand why they wouldn't have ore compressing, that's clearly the only reason to make a high-sec version. Spending billions for what 2% more on ganglinks? whoopdidoo. _______________ Pwett CEO and Founder [QTC]QUANT Corp.
lpha centurion Confrerie des ombres	Posted - 2007.10.30 18:12:00 - [34] Ore compressing or lots of cargo is the same thing in fact. I personaly think that miners in high sec need a capital-sized ship (like the freighter [only by the size]) which can be able to hold ores. Ore compressing is a good solution because it prevent people to hold other things (like POS components, ammos and other). What we really need, is just a ship that stays in belt during mining operations collect the ore containing in the diferent cans. I would give an example: Quote: Imagine a belt (waooo that's not too hard to imagine ^^), in that belt, on both side, there are 2 teams composed of 3 hulks. 2 teams, 2 cans full of ores. And imagine, the new orca, in the center of that belt, tracting those cans and compressing the ore. That's the main job I'd give it. --------------------------
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2007.10.30 18:53:00 - [35] Well, Ore compressing has nothing do the cargo capacity of the Rorqual. I mean, of course it does, but follow me here. What if you don't compress ore so that the Rorqual can hold more, but rather hi-sec miners compress ore so that OTHER ships can carry more. Which is a marginal point right now, but will become absolutely 1,000% more relevant when module compression no longer exists. You can use the Rorqual as a mini-jump freighter, yes, but that's only one of hundreds of possible uses for compressed ore. _______________ Pwett CEO and Founder [QTC]QUANT Corp.
Falka Lakadaka Gallente BakaLakadaka Street	Posted - 2007.10.30 22:30:00 - [36] Originally by: Pwett Well, Ore compressing has nothing do the cargo capacity of the Rorqual. I mean, of course it does, but follow me here. What if you don't compress ore so that the Rorqual can hold more, but rather hi-sec miners compress ore so that OTHER ships can carry more. Which is a marginal point right now, but will become absolutely 1,000% more relevant when module compression no longer exists. You can use the Rorqual as a mini-jump freighter, yes, but that's only one of hundreds of possible uses for compressed ore. Why carry compressed ore around in High Sec? Why not refine and carry minerals? It's high sec, there are plenty of stations with refineries. I'd like to see something that's able to give mining bonuses (like a mining command ship), tractor bonus, ore scanning bonus (to be able to direct the hulks to the right asteroids) and a large cargo capacity (10 Jetcans would be good). The mining command ship could hand out bonuses, and store multiple jetcans worth of ore, jettisoning a single hauler size load each time a hauler shows up. Afterall, we want the gang boss to be doing something, like scanning for new roids, dolling out hauler loads, tanking and generally taking command. Let's make it worthwhile to have an active gang boss in a command ship, the more work he does, the better the fleet performs. Cheers Falka ________________________________________ Have a Skill in training every second of every day and never buy a ship you can't afford to replace at least once.
Tommy Meow	Posted - 2007.10.31 01:20:00 - [37] Ya all realize that if Orca ever comes out this would mean the end to the caped low-ends in EVE? The only way something like this is feasible is if the cap on prices is completely removed and the prices would only be answerable to market forces, and not to NPC Shuttle/Repro Prices.
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2007.10.31 03:34:00 - [38] Originally by: Falka Lakadaka Why carry compressed ore around in High Sec? Why not refine and carry minerals? It's high sec, there are plenty of stations with refineries. Pwett shouts 'To Get it into 0.0!' Aaagggghhhhh _______________ Pwett CEO and Founder [QTC]QUANT Corp.
Typheonic Gallente Astrum Contract Services Group	Posted - 2007.10.31 19:40:00 - [39] The Orca needs mineral compression for the reason Pwett puts forward, definately. The main consumer of empire mined low-end minerals is 0.0. As a miner I would be putting stacks of compressed veldspar and scordite on the market to sell to alliances moving minerals to 0.0 to be used in construction. The introduction of compression in empire space is also an excellent way to deal with the jet can mining method. From the time I started flying a barge I've dreamed of a ship that can carry an entire can worth of ore away at once. With a maxed out top tier industrial I get that, but while they sit there doing nothing it would be nice to have them working on something. I would look for the Orca to be an industrial ship that can provide one or two of the gang links, on site compression of ore, and secondary support like remote shield boosting. Give it a decent cargo hold so with compression it can stay on station with at least 2 Hulks working. It could also get some drone bonuses or at least a respectable drone bay to help provide NPC defense for the mining crew.
Aykido Gallente Lobster of Babel	Posted - 2007.11.01 05:44:00 - [40] Edited by: Aykido on 01/11/2007 05:45:06 If the Orca can compress ore, the Rorqual will become 0.0 only. As a cheaper alternative the Orca would dominate both Empire and low sec. Personally I think a Mining Director Command Ship is much more useful as the Empire mining ops co-ordinator. Pre reqs BC 5 and Mining Barge 5 +100% range bonus to tractors per level of CS +100% range bonus to survey scanners per level of mining barge +3% bonus to mining gang links per level of CS can fit 3 gang links Role bonus 99% reduction in gang link CPU Since it wouldn't have any weapon bonus, it could either have a protection bonus like shield emission (+20% range/level of BC and +20% transfer amount/level of CS) or drone bonus (+20% yield/damage per level of BC and +20% hit points/level of CS) This is the ship I would rather have than some empire bastard version of the Rorqual. Selling PERFECT PRINTS of all seeded T1 BPO: modules, rigs, drones, ammo and ships (2 ships missing), and most capital modules too! Also any INVENTED T2 BPC and max run invention prints in bulk!
lpha centurion Confrerie des ombres	Posted - 2007.11.01 09:16:00 - [41] Edited by: lpha centurion on 01/11/2007 09:23:05 Quote: +100% range bonus to tractors per level of CS Why not, but without a decent cargohold, this would be unuseful. Its tasks would then be to tract all the cans at the same point, all indus can do it. Moreover, we already have command ship that can help during mining operations. What we (my corporation at least) need is a ship that can tract cans, put the content into its cargo [lets say 100-150k m3 or ore compressing system) and maybe, as you said, having some mining bonuses (by fitting some leadership modules). Maybe we can restrict rorqual to some empire ores. In other words, you can't put all ores in the cargo. Let's say it can only holds Veldspar (lol), Scordite, Pyroxeres, Plagioclasse, Kernite, Omber, Jaspet. Difference with the rorqual : - Cannot jump drive (can only uses stargates) - Has no Clone vat bay - Cannot fit capital sized items (like capital remote armor repairer) [except the large tractor beam] - Do not need the "Jump Drive Operation" skill The orca could need the same skills as the rorqual ? --------------------------
lpha centurion Confrerie des ombres	Posted - 2007.11.01 09:36:00 - [42] Mhhh Chronotis, we'd like to know your opinion about all these ideas ! ^^ --------------------------
Typheonic Gallente Astrum Contract Services Group	Posted - 2007.11.01 13:37:00 - [43] Originally by: Aykido Edited by: Aykido on 01/11/2007 05:45:06 If the Orca can compress ore, the Rorqual will become 0.0 only. As a cheaper alternative the Orca would dominate both Empire and low sec. I'm not entirely sure how this is a problem. As it is alliance members seem to believe the Rorqual is the exclusive domain of 0.0 deep space mining. I don't entirely agree, but if a ship not in the billion ISK range turned up with ore compression and using jump gates instead of a jump drive I would be in line to buy one. The Rorqual is overkill for a lot of empire based corporations. Originally by: Aykido Personally I think a Mining Director Command Ship is much more useful as the Empire mining ops co-ordinator. Pre reqs BC 5 and Mining Barge 5 +100% range bonus to tractors per level of CS +100% range bonus to survey scanners per level of mining barge +3% bonus to mining gang links per level of CS can fit 3 gang links Role bonus 99% reduction in gang link CPU Since it wouldn't have any weapon bonus, it could either have a protection bonus like shield emission (+20% range/level of BC and +20% transfer amount/level of CS) or drone bonus (+20% yield/damage per level of BC and +20% hit points/level of CS) This is the ship I would rather have than some empire bastard version of the Rorqual. It seems like what you're describing here is a modified fleet command ship. One could argue that fleet command ships are already close enough to this to be useful as a mining director. Even battlecruisers can successfully fill this role for small operations as it is now. The biggest thing your described ship is lacking is ore handling of some kind. Compression makes the most sense to reduce the number of hauler trips for an operation and the side benefit of compressed ore for export to 0.0. I'm not sure the Orca should be looked at as a bastard of the Rorqual. Instead it is a logical step before a Rorqual where groups that cannot risk or cannot raise over a billion ISK can go.
Fatsam Madhatters Inc. M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.11.01 13:52:00 - [44] Edited by: Fatsam on 01/11/2007 13:53:08 Considering high sec is much more profitable to mine than low sec, and considerably easier, is it really a good idea to give the high sec miners more tools to make even more money? Last time I checked veldspar made more money than all the low sec ores and even some 0.0 ores. If the general intention of CCP is to populate low sec, this will only help do the opposite. Sorry to go against the grain, its only my opinion.
Typheonic Gallente Astrum Contract Services Group	Posted - 2007.11.01 14:30:00 - [45] Originally by: Fatsam Edited by: Fatsam on 01/11/2007 13:53:08 Considering high sec is much more profitable to mine than low sec, and considerably easier, is it really a good idea to give the high sec miners more tools to make even more money? Last time I checked veldspar made more money than all the low sec ores and even some 0.0 ores. If the general intention of CCP is to populate low sec, this will only help do the opposite. Sorry to go against the grain, its only my opinion. Fatsam, in general you're right in that more money can be made mining in high-sec when compared to low-sec, but what are the reasons behind that? Veldspar can be found anywhere and generally in greater supply in low-sec so why don't people mine in low-sec for veldspar and the other money making ores popular in high-sec? As it stands now in my opinion the problems with low-sec cannot be made any worse by the addition of a mining director ship like the Orca. It might help mitigate the risks that keep miners out of low-sec since it can be used there as well. I could also say that if you give industrialists ships which can withstand the rigors and frequency of low-sec PvP encounters it might go a long way toward mitigation of the mountain of low-sec risk. So far I have yet to see anything introduced by CCP in the last few patches to suggest that they are trying to encourage people to go to low-sec space. I'm not saying that they don't want people there, just that their actions haven't supported that assertion. At any rate I would say the issues of low-sec population might be better discussed in another thread.
Vlad Dakovnovich	Posted - 2007.12.13 09:41:00 - [46] Is this thing on sisi yet or is it too soon after trinity for them to start worrying about this.

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2007.12.13 11:25:00 - [47] Too soon yet :) But we are reading all the ideas from everyone.

Xaildaine	Posted - 2007.12.13 12:08:00 - [48] Edited by: Xaildaine on 13/12/2007 12:15:08 In order for a mining command ship type to be usefull it needs big fat boni. Not just a couple of % per lvl but rather lots of %. Other wise you end up in the situation we have now, in that its more effective to just have another barge rather that the command ship. I think it only becomes better to have a comand ship over an extra barge once you get over the 10 barges in the gang or somthing. And adding a Big Fat bonus to raw mining could have bad effects on the market. Better than changeing the Raw minning yeild per hr is a Logistics buff. In order for me to want to use this ship it needs to solve a problem. My main problem is Hauling and trying to anchor cans at an already over crowded belt. A Highsec mining Ship only needs 2 things.. big cargobay + cap tractor beems ...already its usefull. Anything more is just cream. You could argue that just fixing can spam and alowing us access to larger anchorable cans would a more sensable fix but.. CCP hasnt done this so far.. they are not likely to now.. Leave ore compression .. leave clonebays .. we dont need it.. its empire. The only issue i can see with this is that people who haul ore for a living will be out of work once their corp gets one of these. BUT lets not forget that they are all just Hauler alts anyway so who realy cares. TBH i cant see CCP doing it as it may upset the delicate ballance of 2 accts per miner. One thing that could be fun is a Minging Drone Capship with "Miners" rather that fighters. Give it a minnig drone bonus and the ability to assign mining drones like a carrier assigns Fighters. Again with the Large cargo hold and Cap tractors. Of corse this would require the invention of a new mining Drone class. But whatever it ends up being.. please make it usefull to, and attainable for small corps. Not everyone wants to be in the Zerg.. What im looking forward to is a real salvage boat
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2007.12.13 13:56:00 - [49] The purpose of this ship feels like it should be to encourage mining in groups in empire. There are two main limiting factors on mining groups - hauling and gang bonus break-even points. Hauling tends to define the limit for a "proper" group, which is a grouping of 1 hauler and enough barges to keep it shuttling to the station full-time during the op. Once you get beyond this, it really forms into seperate operating cells that don't gain much, if anything, from working with other cells. The gang-bonus breakeven point is currently quite high, you need quite a large group to make it worthwhile. But this requirement for a larger group doesn't really eliminate the "cells" problem induced by hauling. As gang bonuses apply system-wide, the cells do not have to work together beyond agreeing to join the same fleet. Making the orca a ship that can provide gang bonuses and assist in hauling is the best way to resolve both of these. By making the orca a high-capacity hauling centre, it encourages the whole group to come together around it, rather than splintering into individual cells around individual haulers. Even if it is not massively more effective in the gang bonuses over a normal BC, it's dual-role would make it more desirable in the group and reduce the overall break-even point for having it. So, how to make it a high-capacity hauling centre. If you just give it a massive cargohold, it becomes a mini-freighter with gang bonuses, rather than a mining foreman ship. It is also bad if a gang-boosting ship needs to warp and dock to facilitate hauling, as this interrupts the gang bonuses. If you give it ore compression, it moves into direct competition with the Rorqual. While there are good arguments for having a way to compress ore in high-sec, high-sec does not have the pressing reasons present in low-sec for this to occur in the belt, so should probably be provided elsewhere. My favoured option would be giving it a Storage Core, that works in a similar way to the Industrial Core, but with very low running costs. This would immobilize the ship in return for enabling a corp hangar array with capacity similar to that of a freighter, and enabling the ability for a freighter to make pick-ups from that corp hangar array. If the ship exited Storage Mode with stuff still in the corp hangar, these items would be automatically jettisoned into cans as the corp hangar array became disabled. The ship would also need long-range tractor beam ability to be able to consolidate the mining of a whole belt into this storage array. Requiring haulers to bring the ore to the array would be pointless as the haulers would be quicker just warping back to the station. The ship would need sufficient tanking to be able to withstand a ganking long enough for concord (or a player escort in the case of a wardec) to respond. This maight take the form of HP or resistance bonuses from Storage Mode, as the ship will be holding significantly more value in that mode (personally I think the rorqual needs a bit more of this for it's Industrial Mode as well). I wouldn't give it any significant offensive ability though, to prevent it being combat effective in it's own right. This would give a good incentive for the whole group to mine in the same belt, in order to consolidate the hauling and significantly reduce the number of haulers required. It would also promote the use of skilled miners and a skilled hauler in the mining group, rather than stacks of alt haulers. I do not think such a ship needs any mining output of it's own, it's role should be to make the barges more efficient and replacing haulers (which weren't mining anyway), not to replace the barges. Because of it's effective help in hauling, it wouldn't necessarily need gang link bonuses beyond the ability to fit all the foreman links at once. This would also leave the Rorqual able to offer an extra advantage. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2007.12.13 14:13:00 - [50] This method would give a ship that could provide the core of a high-sec mining group, without being a direct "mini-rorqual", and this in direct competition with it. Both would have a different unique ability, and one that is relatively more useful in it's "native" high or low-sec environment. As for high-sec ore compression. Personally, I don't think there's a need to compress the ore directly. The primary reason to compress ore should be to get it to the nearest refinery, a function that has very limited applicability to high-sec due to the abundance of stations. The main need for it expressed seems to be to ease transportation of minerals long distances (esp into 0.0). If this is the aim, then direct mineral compression abilities would be better than ore compression. These would be by proper, balanced methods, rather than the module-based tricks that are beeing weeded out. You'd just have a set of blueprints for "Compressed Tritanium" etc that offered similar compression ratios to the compressed ores, requiring as input the minerals to be compressed and some amount of ice products as "reactants", to be an equivalent of the rorqual fuel usage (it would be important to ensure these ice products did not come back out when you refined it back into normal trit). These could then be manufactured in any NPC production line, or an appropriate POS array. This would leave the Rorqual the more effective option for compressing for the belt->refinery journey while offering an alternative pathway for high-sec sources and already-refined minerals. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Trilium Eagle Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.13 15:43:00 - [51] Reading all this propositions is nice.. as It's my role currently to give gang bonuses on mining ops. I would opt for some thing in lines of smaller Rorqual with: - nice corp hangar (or specialised ore hangar) - mining foreman link bonus - tractor and scanner range bonuses ( for miners coordination when needed ) - possibly ore compression ( this may be good to get your ore compressed to null sec ) Giving bonus from one bc with proper skills and mind link actual break even barrier is about 3 Hulks. Only problem is lack of any other support that you can give. Npc defence isn't really much needed in high sec. Orca constructed like mentioned earlier would give more functions to perform when overseeing mining op. I'm even ready to skill Mining Barges to 5 and ore processing skills if needed ( don't have any atm).
Jacque Custeau Knights of the Minmatar Republic	Posted - 2007.12.13 15:43:00 - [52] I would like to see the Orca as a ship that made ice mining a bit easier and manageable. Given the cycle times, the size of ice and very low yield of each unit of ice, ice mining has to be one of the most boring things to do in the game. Most people I know who engage in it do it while watching TV or doing something else on another computer nearby. I would love to see the Orca as a capital variant of the Mackinaw. It should not be able to mine faster than a Mackinaw, but with a much larger cargo bay, allowing at least an hour of uninterrupted mining. -------------------
Viilaa Caldari OH Corp	Posted - 2007.12.13 16:17:00 - [53] Heck I would be happy to have the following: 1 turret slot for a miner of some sort - it gets boring when everyone else is mining and you just get to watch 2+ high slots for tractors the other slots don't really matter And the thing all miners really want.... a HUGE cargobay.. Not 20k.. Heck an industrial can almost fit that. But a real cargo bay... something like 500k.. Make it so only ore can be put in it if you want to limit its role to mining only.. But without a huge bay (or compression) there is no real need for a new ship imo. Even if you give +20% bonus to mining we miners have the same problem... where do we put the ore while we mine ? Viilaa
Aarin Wrath	Posted - 2007.12.13 20:44:00 - [54] Hmmm what I would like to see: What it has: -bonus to effectiveness of mining foreman gang links per level -99% reduction in Warfare Link module CPU need -can run 3 Warfare Link modules simultaneously -Bonus to drones per level. (really its only defence) -ability or introduction of large tractor beams which perhaps only it can fit (say a range of 100km, some belts are pretty big), or even just a bonus to tractor range per level -two or three high slots for tractor beams -a couple mid and low slots for a semi-tank, maybe on par with the hulks tank. Enough to hold off rat spawns, even 0.0 ones ... but not enough to stop a decent pvp pilot from ruining a miners day -ore compression, or some limited form of it (see reasoning below) -a decent hold, maybe 50,000 (see reasoning below) -maybe slightly worse than battleship level agility What it doesn't have: -no clone vat -no capital tractor -no jump ability -no corp. hanger -no ship maintenance -no turret slots or missile hard points Notes: 1. Why allow ore compression? it would allow large gangs of barges to be supported by one hauler, instead of a fleet of them. As it stands, 3 hulks can make a single haulers life pretty tiring. With compression one hauler could handle the incoming ore of several hulks. It could be a limited form of compression, perhaps a much slower compression rate than a Roqual (50%) but it still would be very helpful. This will also facilitate mining in high sec systems where no stations exists, and also make lowsec mining abit more ... reasonable. (right now you more or less need a POS in a lowsec system to store your ore, and hide at, a in sys station is not a viable place since you are just too easy a target) Also, I would add that the main feature of the roqual is ore compression, so it stands to reason that its little brother should have some limited form of the same ability. 2.Why a decent 50,000 hold? yes this presents the problem of creating a mini freighter. Well for one, Industrialists have been wanting one for a long time. Check the Features forum. I would also present the fact that such a ship is going to be colossally expensive to use as a mini freighter. Assuming it goes for 500-800 mill or so, well you might as well get a real freighter. And 50k isn't that much really, but combined with ore compression it would enable it to compress and store the ore of a decent barge gang for a decent period of time. Well that's what I would like to see anyways. p.s as for those who are worried about such a ship bieng a boon to macro miniers, well yes that is a possibility, but I do not that that sole reason is enough to not create such a ship. (might as well remove barges from the game). CCP has procedures in place to deal with macro miners and they are doing what they can.
Riley Craven Caldari Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.13 23:21:00 - [55] Edited by: Riley Craven on 13/12/2007 23:25:28 Edited by: Riley Craven on 13/12/2007 23:22:08 Originally by: Jacque Custeau I would like to see the Orca as a ship that made ice mining a bit easier and manageable. Given the cycle times, the size of ice and very low yield of each unit of ice, ice mining has to be one of the most boring things to do in the game. Most people I know who engage in it do it while watching TV or doing something else on another computer nearby. I would love to see the Orca as a capital variant of the Mackinaw. It should not be able to mine faster than a Mackinaw, but with a much larger cargo bay, allowing at least an hour of uninterrupted mining. 0/ Thankfully I dont think CCP would ever make a ship like that. Just about every change they make is trying to get players to play the game more, not encourage AFK play. The problems with ice mining remains, but I think I have a rather simple solution to that, instead of mining a whole chunk of ice, ships would mine shards of ice and have a drastically reduced cycle time. You have to get a couple shards of ice to make a refine just like you do with ore. IE. shards weigh 100m3 and you need 10 of them for refine. You still get the barge restriction though because only the ice lasers can mine ice still. Its still just as boring as mining regular ore, but at least that way doesnt encourage afk play. Sadly, I dont think CCP will do this either as they tend to be ingrained in their evil ways of making this game less fun for everyone. That might help solve your problem the way you put it, but the real problem is not the above in my opinion. The real reason I think mining ice is an AFK endevor is because the roids never die. You could practically mine the same roid for eternity and it would never die. In regular mining you constantly have to switch roids, and this is especially true if you mine in high sec with barges. The problem is if they change them not to be that way then they would have to change some other things to, because as it stands now not having to loose time between laser cycles is really the only saving grace keeping ice products profitable.
Riley Craven Caldari Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.13 23:34:00 - [56] Originally by: Aarin Wrath Hmmm what I would like to see: Notes: 1. Why allow ore compression? it would allow large gangs of barges to be supported by one hauler, instead of a fleet of them. As it stands, 3 hulks can make a single haulers life pretty tiring. With compression one hauler could handle the incoming ore of several hulks. It could be a limited form of compression, perhaps a much slower compression rate than a Roqual (50%) but it still would be very helpful. This will also facilitate mining in high sec systems where no stations exists, and also make lowsec mining abit more ... reasonable. (right now you more or less need a POS in a lowsec system to store your ore, and hide at, a in sys station is not a viable place since you are just too easy a target) Also, I would add that the main feature of the roqual is ore compression, so it stands to reason that its little brother should have some limited form of the same ability. 2.Why a decent 50,000 hold? yes this presents the problem of creating a mini freighter. Well for one, Industrialists have been wanting one for a long time. Check the Features forum. I would also present the fact that such a ship is going to be colossally expensive to use as a mini freighter. Assuming it goes for 500-800 mill or so, well you might as well get a real freighter. And 50k isn't that much really, but combined with ore compression it would enable it to compress and store the ore of a decent barge gang for a decent period of time. Well that's what I would like to see anyways. p.s as for those who are worried about such a ship bieng a boon to macro miniers, well yes that is a possibility, but I do not that that sole reason is enough to not create such a ship. (might as well remove barges from the game). CCP has procedures in place to deal with macro miners and they are doing what they can. I have to say you offer a pretty decent reason to include ore compression on this ship. I think perhaps that you might be on to something. This ship for one doesnt have the jump drive of the rorq and two isnt likely to compress high end ore like the rorqual does. So while you could use the orca in 0.0, it wouldnt really make sense too because the rorq does the job better (has a ship bay, and a jump drive and clone vats) Giving it this capability would balance the economies between 0.0 and empire. The equation would be rorq compress high ends to empire and orca compress low ends for 0.0. This is really important because in reality neither economy should be totally self sufficient. For eve to truely function, they both have to be dependent on each other in different ways. Some things you should only get in empire and some things you should only get in 0.0. It forces a perpetual cycle that forces players to work together.
Riley Craven Caldari Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.13 23:42:00 - [57] Originally by: Matthew As for high-sec ore compression. Personally, I don't think there's a need to compress the ore directly. The primary reason to compress ore should be to get it to the nearest refinery, a function that has very limited applicability to high-sec due to the abundance of stations. The main need for it expressed seems to be to ease transportation of minerals long distances (esp into 0.0). If this is the aim, then direct mineral compression abilities would be better than ore compression. These would be by proper, balanced methods, rather than the module-based tricks that are beeing weeded out. You'd just have a set of blueprints for "Compressed Tritanium" etc that offered similar compression ratios to the compressed ores, requiring as input the minerals to be compressed and some amount of ice products as "reactants", to be an equivalent of the rorqual fuel usage (it would be important to ensure these ice products did not come back out when you refined it back into normal trit). These could then be manufactured in any NPC production line, or an appropriate POS array. This would leave the Rorqual the more effective option for compressing for the belt->refinery journey while offering an alternative pathway for high-sec sources and already-refined minerals. I can understand what you saying, but the real problem was that CCP is changing all the wrong things. Markets need to depend on each other to succed imo (I give you something you need and you give me something I need). While I agree with you that mineral compression would be better, I dont think that would be a good idea. The primary reason is that it would allow you to compress all minerals and that would allow you to easily transport things anywhere no matter what the sec rating is. The equation needs to be compress low end ore in high sec and compress high end ore in 0.0 and trade the two. The only way to achieve this is if you give the orca a compression bay, because its not likely that people are going to be stupid enough to bring in low sec ore to compress in high sec. In reality the equation would be more balanced if the orca had a compression bay.
Riley Craven Caldari Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.13 23:54:00 - [58] P.S. to CCP I think my above three posts illustrate the exact kind of thinking that players want to see in dev blogs (i.e. that there is actual thought plied to game changes instead of statements like carrier != hauler) CCP can not afford not to have more transparency at this stage of the game. I have yet to see reasonable reasons for half the changes made in trinity and this more than anything has ****ed alot of people off.
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2007.12.14 00:12:00 - [59] Well written Riley, But I will say this again. the Orca NEEDS ore compression. The only place that NEEDS ore compression is high-sec, not null sec. I lived in 0.0, I never compressed 0.0 ore to bring to high-sec. I refined it and sold the minerals. But I had passive targeter production lines running 23/7 to get tritanium to 0.0. Because the 0.0 industry NEEDS the trit fuel. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Draahk Chimera Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.12.14 05:17:00 - [60] There already is an Orc A. Ask BOB.
Chomapuraku Templar Republic R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.12.14 05:34:00 - [61] i think if you want a ship that facilitates people mining low-ends, give it a huge bonus to yield for low-end mining crystals and up the compression ratio on low-ends. yeah, i know, if you boost yield or flood the market with trit and pye, you cause a price crash for them, but maybe a price crash in trit and pye would cause a (badly needed) price-spike for the mid-range ores (iso and nocx down from 150 and 600 to 50 and 115)
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.14 09:21:00 - [62] Edited by: Adunh Slavy on 14/12/2007 09:21:39 If, as has been suggested price caps are removed, and today's live Dev Blog did indicate that unnamed T1 modules were going away as part of loot drops, then the demand for low ends is going to go up. So it follows that mining yields will need to increase to meet demand, be it from better ships and modules to just more people mining. Sadly the second option means the viability of mining farmers is increased since they can throw people at the situation and profit from any labor intensive demand more than regular paying customers can. To that, I'd suggest whatever this ship is, that it have some kind of limitation on how it can be used by players with regards to NPC corp status. Not popular with some, but let's not give the farmers any thing if it can be avoided. Not looking to start an argument on that point, so will leave it there. To the compression question - I'll ask, why do T1 industrials have so much CPU? Maybe get that involved with this ship, like a reactor silo, link up the indy to the Orca and leach the indy's cargo space and CPU to do some sort of symbiotic compression that loads up the indy so it can haul the compressed ore or dump it in a can for yet another indy to haul it off. Forces players to not have the hauling advantages of the Rorq, but still allows for some compression. Tractor bonuses would certainly be helpful, long range if nothing else, say 40 km, or whatever the ranges may need to be should belts ever move to anomalies as was once suggested by CCP, so the ship can be parked and used as a mining platform. Decent drone space and bandwidth would be good, I can see arguments for five heavy drones, specially for use in low sec. Or if it can be parked, then perhaps a bonus to sentry drones, since the thing won't be moving around a lot. I would not put mining lasers on it, unless the the "no NPC corp use" thing were put in place. If that were the case, then ability to use strip 2s would be reasonable, though would not want to outclass the Veldnaught, as it has its place. Should perhaps get some bonus to armour and/or shield transfers, but only when it is parked, "siege mode" I suppose. Range would be more useful than HP boosting. A small maintenance bay would be nice, maybe hold a handful of frigs, allow players to switch out some modules, nothing too big, but a nice convenience. Won't need much cargo space if the indy link idea is used, if not, whatever is needed to do reasonable compression, at least more than a jet can worth anyway. Mining link modules of course, not going to debate that one, makes too much sense. For skills, looks like just sticking to the primary skills for the Rorq would be sufficient. -AS The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
Marcus Tedric Gallente Tedric Enterprises Space Exploration and Logistic Services	Posted - 2007.12.14 09:46:00 - [63] How about a really simple change? Make the Eos Info Warfare bonus (considered fairly useless) also apply to the Mining Foreman links? Then, if an Orca comes along - make it 5% instead. And having a Ship Maint Bay on an Orca would allow it to bring mining barges and haulers along. Drone bonus like Rorqual. A nice and friendly High-Sec Capital ship that the Empires have no objection to, with a goodly-sized Cargo Bay. But, most importantly, can only be flown by a CONCORD-sanctioned pilot who must therefore be in a Player Corp/Alliance!
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2007.12.14 10:00:00 - [64] Originally by: Riley Craven The primary reason is that it would allow you to compress all minerals and that would allow you to easily transport things anywhere no matter what the sec rating is. So in reality if you gave the orca that ability there would be no reason to soley keep the orca in high sec as it could compress refined minerals in an 0.0 refinery station and then bring the compressed minerals to an 0.0 manufacturing station. That puts it more in direct competition with the rorq than you realize mate. (of course this assumes that you could actually used compressed minerals in manufacturing jobs) Well, I don't see any reason why the Orca shouldn't have a use in 0.0, provided that use does not obsolete the Rorqual. Though at the same time I don't think it's essential that it has an explicit role in 0.0, given that the Rorqual is available. Compressed minerals being used in manufacturing jobs directly was not what I had in mind. I was intending that they would need converting back to their normal variants via a refinery before they could be used. In that way the refinery->factory infrastructure needs remain the same regardless of which source the minerals come from. Also, I was not proposing that the Orca itself would be able to do mineral compression jobs, just that it would be possible to do this in a normal manufacturing production line, which would be perfectly adequate for high-sec compression. For low-sec and 0.0 space, you could allow the jobs in one of the POS manufacturing arrays (or make a new array for it), and/or letting the rorqual run mineral as well as ore compression jobs. Originally by: Riley Craven The equation needs to be compress low end ore in high sec and compress high end ore in 0.0 and trade the two. The only way to achieve this is if you give the orca a compression bay, because its not likely that people are going to be stupid enough to bring in low sec ore to compress in high sec. The problem with restricting compression to the ore level is that once you refine something, those minerals effectively become "stranded" where they are, due to being irreversably harder to transport. This would effectively cut the mineral market in two, adding an unnecessary barrier to trade. High-sec miners would mine into an Orca, haul back to their refinery station (which in 99% of cases will be in the same system) in a freighter, refine the ore, compress the minerals in the NPC production lines (which in many cases will be in the same station as the refinery), and ship the compressed minerals to the high-sec markets, and from there out to 0.0 Low-sec/0.0 miners would mine into the Rorqual. The Rorqual then compresses the ore and jumps it back to the refinery station (or for whatever other hauling method you desire). This ore can then be shipped to empire directly, or refined immediately. Once refined, it is shipped to the factories as normal, where it is used in production, and any excess accumulated at this stage can again be compressed and shipped out to empire. Originally by: Adunh Slavy If, as has been suggested price caps are removed, and today's live Dev Blog did indicate that unnamed T1 modules were going away as part of loot drops, then the demand for low ends is going to go up. So it follows that mining yields will need to increase to meet demand, be it from better ships and modules to just more people mining. Yeay for no more unnamed T1 loot. Bear in mind that overall mining yields can be increased without necessarily increasing the m3/sec yielded by the mining lasers. Many people forget hauling times when calculating their mining output, and in a group yield per member is more important than the output of any individual ship. By making the hauling side of the group require fewer players, you are increasing the yield of the whole group, as those players can be put into barges instead. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2007.12.14 10:13:00 - [65] Originally by: Adunh Slavy Sadly the second option means the viability of mining farmers is increased since they can throw people at the situation and profit from any labor intensive demand more than regular paying customers can. To that, I'd suggest whatever this ship is, that it have some kind of limitation on how it can be used by players with regards to NPC corp status. Not popular with some, but let's not give the farmers any thing if it can be avoided. Not looking to start an argument on that point, so will leave it there. Well, firstly, I don't think we should let farmers dictate game design. Yes, they are a factor that should be taken into consideration, but it should not be an overriding veto on something. After all, the only real difference between a dedicated group of mining players, and a group of farmers, is what happens to the revenue of the work. Personally, I don't think NPC corp restrictions are the way to go. Yes, forcing them into a PC corp allows them to be wardecced. But the constant complains of raven farmers in 0.0 space, where no wardecs are necessary, suggests to me that the farmers would be more than capable of handling this inconvenience. One thing that does act against the farmers is by making the efficiency gain in what is currently the least skill-intensive area of mining - the hauling. Currently farming haulers are throwaway characters, with minimum skill and isk investments, because there's no point them being anything else. Having one be banned doesn't hurt that much, as you can cook up another one in a couple of days and about 1mill isk. Tying up the more efficient hauling model as an Orca+Freighter team allows more efficient player mining, but the much larger isk and skill requirements would make it a much riskier option for farmers, as getting one of those accounts banned would really hurt. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Artmedis Valben Gallente Lobster of Babel	Posted - 2007.12.14 13:18:00 - [66] I like where this is going. Dedicated Foreman Command Ship, that incorporates many of the qualities of the Rorqual, especially facilitating logistics/hauling, without going all the way to the small mothership-like 0.0 mobile base that the Rorqual is. This could be a great addition to the game for small/medium sized indy corps. Selling: PERFECT PRINTS New ships
Lab Technician071548 Astro-Support Services	Posted - 2007.12.14 18:38:00 - [67] This could be an ORE modified freighter. No jump capability .5 penalty to cargo space 4 high slots, no hard points 1 mid slot (see below) Cap adjusted accordingly Able to use 2x command modules Shield buffed to withstand all non-battleship NPC encounters above 0.0. Able to interact with objects normally (no freighter restrictions) when it's mid-slot "stabilization" module is activated. The module prevents movement. Alternatively, other players can stuff things into the ship but the pilot cannot except with normal freighter restrictions. Freighter bonuses apply as to freighter Mini-rorq skill bonus: 1% increased effectiveness of command modules per level Role bonus 50% increase to tractor beam range and 25% bonus to tractor beam speed per level ---- signature replaced (max size 24000 bytes) - should be ok now. OK?
grimda Caldari Serenity Engineering and Transport Company deadspace society	Posted - 2007.12.14 20:16:00 - [68] Previous poster said: "But, most importantly, can only be flown by a CONCORD-sanctioned pilot who must therefore be in a Player Corp/Alliance!" /signed, anything to keep it useless to macro-miners Also, in that vein: Allow the ORCA to only tractor JETCANS, not secure cans, so macroers cant use that feature either. Defense: Either give it good resists and a few slots to tank or a combo of a few slots, poor resists and a drone bay for combat drones. ALTERNATIVELY, give it a siege mode with higher resists when its 'deployed' in a field. Give it a huge cargo bay. WHY? because you can restrict it to carrying ORE only, not refined minerals. Why? Say its an open to space/vacuum bay and dropping other modules in there would destroy them. NO REFINERY on the ORCA. Hi-Sec has plenty of them. An ORCA needs Compression. WHY? 0.0 will need the trit, has always needed the low ends. Make it big like the Rorqual. Miners need some love and a hi sec cap ship would be sweet. Clone Bays. THIS is a great idea. WHY? If half your corp is forty jumps away, or even 20, and you have your orca positioned on a sweet belt you want to mine they could use the break of being able to quickly deploy to the ORCA and use the ships it carries to mine like crazy. if you dont want this abused make the clone bays accessible to 'ORE' sanctioned personnel only - people with mining barge V sills. Acting VP Serenity Engineering and Transport
Aarin Wrath	Posted - 2007.12.14 20:40:00 - [69] Originally by: Riley Craven Not only that but think about this: would it really make sense to move a slow moving cap ship through jumpgates (ala freighter moving speed) through low sec and 0.0 just to compress ore when there is already a ship that has a jump drive to get you there in almost absolute safety? That reason alone is why it wont really be direct compeition to the rorq. Sure some people are going to be stupid enough to do it maybe because of it beinger cheaper... but it also has the disadvantage of being a big fat target to gankers... and you know how they love popping things. That's a very good point. Why would you bother with a "slow as freighter" Orca in lowsec if the Roq can jump around. It would be too much of a liability.
Aarin Wrath	Posted - 2007.12.14 20:45:00 - [70] Originally by: Adunh Slavy To the compression question - I'll ask, why do T1 industrials have so much CPU? Maybe get that involved with this ship, like a reactor silo, link up the indy to the Orca and leach the indy's cargo space and CPU to do some sort of symbiotic compression that loads up the indy so it can haul the compressed ore or dump it in a can for yet another indy to haul it off. Forces players to not have the hauling advantages of the Rorq, but still allows for some compression. Sorry to derail, but I believe T1 industrials have such high CPU because they were meant to equip mobile refineries back in the day. This module/ feature was never introduced however.
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.14 20:53:00 - [71] Edited by: Adunh Slavy on 14/12/2007 20:53:58 Originally by: Matthew Tying up the more efficient hauling model as an Orca+Freighter team allows more efficient player mining, but the much larger isk and skill requirements would make it a much riskier option for farmers, as getting one of those accounts banned would really hurt. Good points about the hauling opportunity cost of mining and I do have to agree with the sentiment of having farmers dictate game play, it's a nice little knot that has never been solved. Your idea above though might just do it in regards to the Orca, if I understand what you're proposing. Are you proposing that a freighter be required to haul from the Orca by some means? Perhaps there is a post I didn't read that describes this? I'll go look. -AS The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.14 20:58:00 - [72] Originally by: Aarin Wrath Originally by: Adunh Slavy To the compression question - I'll ask, why do T1 industrials have so much CPU? à Sorry to derail, but I believe T1 industrials have such high CPU because they were meant to equip mobile refineries back in the day. This module/ feature was never introduced however. Not a derail, and you are correct about the mobile refinery. My question was rhetorical to point to this very thing, though didn't state it. Maybe it's an opportunity to put the industry back into the industrial. -AS The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
Fulbert	Posted - 2007.12.14 21:20:00 - [73] High-sec mining is incredibly boring and repetitive. It's a matter of secure cont placing (with all those no-risk ore thieves), surveying, targeting, transfering, hauling, etc. Make hisec mining more fun! - we NEED a despawn timer for all anchored containers. I think some of them are there for YEARS! - reduce the number of public belts, add a LOT of explorable ones we can discover with probes we dont need macromining stuff, we're just asking for action ^^
Riley Craven Caldari Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.15 17:32:00 - [74] Originally by: Fulbert High-sec mining is incredibly boring and repetitive. It's a matter of secure cont placing (with all those no-risk ore thieves), surveying, targeting, transfering, hauling, etc. Make hisec mining more fun! - we NEED a despawn timer for all anchored containers. I think some of them are there for YEARS! - reduce the number of public belts, add a LOT of explorable ones we can discover with probes we dont need macromining stuff, we're just asking for action ^^ What we need is some kind of mini game like in Gears of war when you went to reload. Helps active miners out and makes it less boring, however there needs to be different mini games so they dont get boring
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.16 01:46:00 - [75] Matt, After giving some more thought to the idea of a freighter being the hauler for the Orca, I have to reconsider it being a good idea. It would be a very nice option however. I think the problem is that it makes the barrier to entry too high, and although I must agree this hurts farmers, it also hurts the small to mid sized empire corps to whom the Orca seems to be targeted. -AS The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
Verite Rendition Caldari F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2007.12.16 02:47:00 - [76] Originally by: Riley Craven Originally by: Fulbert High-sec mining is incredibly boring and repetitive. It's a matter of secure cont placing (with all those no-risk ore thieves), surveying, targeting, transfering, hauling, etc. Make hisec mining more fun! - we NEED a despawn timer for all anchored containers. I think some of them are there for YEARS! - reduce the number of public belts, add a LOT of explorable ones we can discover with probes we dont need macromining stuff, we're just asking for action ^^ What we need is some kind of mini game like in Gears of war when you went to reload. Helps active miners out and makes it less boring, however there needs to be different mini games so they dont get boring Most of us don't want minigames. Watching local like a hawk for hours on end is the minigame. ---- FREE Explorer Lead Megalomanic EVE Automated Influence Map
Riley Craven Caldari Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.16 17:07:00 - [77] Originally by: Verite Rendition Originally by: Riley Craven Originally by: Fulbert High-sec mining is incredibly boring and repetitive. It's a matter of secure cont placing (with all those no-risk ore thieves), surveying, targeting, transfering, hauling, etc. Make hisec mining more fun! - we NEED a despawn timer for all anchored containers. I think some of them are there for YEARS! - reduce the number of public belts, add a LOT of explorable ones we can discover with probes we dont need macromining stuff, we're just asking for action ^^ What we need is some kind of mini game like in Gears of war when you went to reload. Helps active miners out and makes it less boring, however there needs to be different mini games so they dont get boring Most of us don't want minigames. Watching local like a hawk for hours on end is the minigame. This discussion is mainly targetted at Empire miners.... whose lives are considerably more boring than low sec or 0.0 miners.
Xaildaine	Posted - 2007.12.16 19:11:00 - [78] Seriously... An empire mining cap ship seams a bit extreem. All we want is Larger anchorable cans and somewhere we can anchor them.. Is that so hard?
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.16 21:37:00 - [79] Originally by: Xaildaine Seriously... An empire mining cap ship seams a bit extreem. All we want is Larger anchorable cans and somewhere we can anchor them.. Is that so hard? Though your point is agreeable, it misses something. CCP needs to find ways to entice six and seventh month old characters to stay with the game. A ship like this can fit right into that market segment providing the skill point and cost attributes are properly balanced to that segment. I'm all for a big mining can, but it does not address this hidden element. -AS The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2007.12.16 22:37:00 - [80] Originally by: Adunh Slavy Matt, After giving some more thought to the idea of a freighter being the hauler for the Orca, I have to reconsider it being a good idea. It would be a very nice option however. I think the problem is that it makes the barrier to entry too high, and although I must agree this hurts farmers, it also hurts the small to mid sized empire corps to whom the Orca seems to be targeted. Well, I would say even a small to mid sized empire corp should be able to pull together a couple of billion for an Orca/Freighter pairing, if they really wanted it. The Orca is the high-end of group mining. Small, experienced mining corps should be able to afford the Orca/Freighter pairing, if they're really working together (and if they aren't, why do they want a group-based ship?). Of course, there would be nothing stopping them from hauling from the Orca in a normal hauler, you'd just lose a chunk of the benefit of having the Orca in the first place. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.17 00:47:00 - [81] Originally by: Matthew Of course, there would be nothing stopping them from hauling from the Orca in a normal hauler, you'd just lose a chunk of the benefit of having the Orca in the first place. That's agreeable, just so long as it is not required. -AS The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
Mabari	Posted - 2007.12.17 10:07:00 - [82] i only have one requirement for a ship like this. And that would be: Not allowed to use by annyone in npc corp. This is imo allowed because this ship should be used in gangs/groups of miners, wich wil hardly be seen in npc corperations. And this way you either force the macro miners into a war decable corperation or exclude them from using this ship. greets Mabari
Xaildaine	Posted - 2007.12.17 10:18:00 - [83] Originally by: Adunh Slavy Originally by: Xaildaine Seriously... An empire mining cap ship seams a bit extreem. All we want is Larger anchorable cans and somewhere we can anchor them.. Is that so hard? Though your point is agreeable, it misses something. CCP needs to find ways to entice six and seventh month old characters to stay with the game. A ship like this can fit right into that market segment providing the skill point and cost attributes are properly balanced to that segment. I'm all for a big mining can, but it does not address this hidden element. OK so how about this. Empire mining cap ship: Skills required: Anchoring 5 and 4 months of other random stuff Role bonus : Alows the deployment and anchoring of the Super big cans already in the data base Ship bonus : %1 faster anchoring per lvl there .. done.. everyone is happy
gordon861 Minmatar Head Insurance Services	Posted - 2007.12.17 15:04:00 - [84] Allow it to deploy like the Rorqual, when it deploys it becomes stationary in space and can't move but it's cargo bay expands to allow all the haulers to bring the ore to it or for it to tractor the cans to it. Whilst deployed it should allow a freighter to dock/transfer from its enlarged cargo bay. It doesn't need compression as you have plenty of stations in empire space to refine the ore into minerals. I'm not sure the long range tractors are so useful in empire belts as they all seem so small. Most of the empire mining ops I'm involved in just send a hulk to each belt to start stripping and then the haulers warp to each miner as required and collect the ore and return it to a station. With implants and the ganglinks a hulk can almost kill a whole belt without moving at all. If the orca cold provide that temporary station in a system for the hauler to dump their ore until it's collected by a freighter I think it would solve most of the issues with larger empire mining ops. Originally by: CCP Arkanon I frown on employees being power players to the extent that their gameplay results in any sort of domination over others. I donÆt believe CCP employees should run the EVE universe.
Vlad Dakovnovich	Posted - 2007.12.21 09:11:00 - [85] I think what i would like to see is a copy of the rorqual maybe a little smaller, but still much larger than a industrial ship. No clone bay or jump capability. Not fussed about the maintenance bay this is high sec after all. But i think it should have compression capability and some nice bonuses to mining yield / speed etc. and maybe some ability to field big mining drones so that the pilot isn't just sat there would also increase the skill set needed as without the low sec stuff the skills look a little sparse. Maybe require industrial ship 5 as well ? Include the same or slightly reduced scanner and tractor beam bonuses, job done
Moon Dogg Gallente The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.12.21 15:53:00 - [86] Well, having moved from Empire to null-sec, the Orca is less of a priority for me personally than it was just a few months ago. Still, I like the idea, because Empire high-sec miners need the love. There have been some great ideas in here as well. That being said, I have to address the concept of not allowing an Orca to be piloted by anyone in a NPC corporation. I thought that was a great idea, until I began to wonder how it might affect moving my Orca from Point A to Point B in certan situations. Example 1: I decide to leave corp for another outfit, and move my mining operations to their system. To do so, I would have to make sure that I do not leave my present corp until at least the Orca is moved, or move it once I joined their corp. Sometimes moving ships while you are in between player corps is desireable! Example 2: I get involved in a corp argument, resulting in my roles being stripped and my butt getting kicked out of corp. All of this could conceivably happen before I had an opportunity to move my Orca. Once again, I have to find a new player corp home before I can move my stuff. Example 3: My corp is war-decced. Common practice in this case (at least for my old corp) would have been to move pilots out of corp and into an NPC corp to ensure that ore production didn't stop. In this case, the Orca is unavailable to corp mining ops unless a pilot stays in the corp to fly it while the rest stay in NPCs and mine. These are probably nit-picking scenarios, but I just wanted to point them out. The concept makes moving the Orca an event that you need to plan for if you are expecting to change corps. *********************************** "Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me..."
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2007.12.21 16:43:00 - [87] Originally by: Moon Dogg Example 3: My corp is war-decced. Common practice in this case (at least for my old corp) would have been to move pilots out of corp and into an NPC corp to ensure that ore production didn't stop. In this case, the Orca is unavailable to corp mining ops unless a pilot stays in the corp to fly it while the rest stay in NPCs and mine. omg hate those people! But, piloting in NPC corp should be fine, using it to compress, however, should require a corp. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Moon Dogg Gallente The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.12.21 19:17:00 - [88] You know Pwett, I was thinking about that as an option too. Not knowing programming and the inner mechanics of the game, can just that option be grayed out? Because if CCP were to code it so none of the modules could be activated if the pilot was in a NPC corp, then conceivably no defensive modules could be used either! That would make me not want to undock *********************************** "Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me..."
shady trader	Posted - 2007.12.21 19:19:00 - [89] Originally by: Moon Dogg Well, having moved from Empire to null-sec, the Orca is less of a priority for me personally than it was just a few months ago. Still, I like the idea, because Empire high-sec miners need the love. There have been some great ideas in here as well. That being said, I have to address the concept of not allowing an Orca to be piloted by anyone in a NPC corporation. I thought that was a great idea, until I began to wonder how it might affect moving my Orca from Point A to Point B in certan situations. Example 1: I decide to leave corp for another outfit, and move my mining operations to their system. To do so, I would have to make sure that I do not leave my present corp until at least the Orca is moved, or move it once I joined their corp. Sometimes moving ships while you are in between player corps is desireable! Example 2: I get involved in a corp argument, resulting in my roles being stripped and my butt getting kicked out of corp. All of this could conceivably happen before I had an opportunity to move my Orca. Once again, I have to find a new player corp home before I can move my stuff. Example 3: My corp is war-decced. Common practice in this case (at least for my old corp) would have been to move pilots out of corp and into an NPC corp to ensure that ore production didn't stop. In this case, the Orca is unavailable to corp mining ops unless a pilot stays in the corp to fly it while the rest stay in NPCs and mine. These are probably nit-picking scenarios, but I just wanted to point them out. The concept makes moving the Orca an event that you need to plan for if you are expecting to change corps. That about if all the special features (gang bonus, tracters etc) other then movement + offence and defence with out bonuses (assumung the core gives addition bonus to one or both) was tried to the core being active, to bring the core on line you needed a corp role ? This way you cannot get stuck in a station but it would be useless for ops if the pilot was in a NPC corp. This way atleast the Orca's pilot could be war dec'ed if they support a macro/isk farming group. Macrointel, the place were the nature order of the universe does not hold sway. Pirates and ore thief's are congrated by carebears for the actions.
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.21 19:22:00 - [90] Edited by: Adunh Slavy on 21/12/2007 19:23:21 Moon and Pwett, What about any benefits the "siege mode" would provide are not provided unless in an NPC corp. Modules would still activate, but let's suppose "Seige Mode" gave a 200% boost to tractor range, and not in siege the tractors behaved as normal. Then the ship is no worse off for flying around regardless of corp status. So perhaps, ship can only go into Siege, if the pilot is in a player corp. If the player is in an NPC corp, then no siege mode available. Link all the extra benefits, compression, freighter loading, tractor range, etc to the siege mode. Or what Shady said above :) The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
Marcus Tedric Gallente Tedric Enterprises Space Exploration and Logistic Services	Posted - 2007.12.22 11:39:00 - [91] Firstly - I don't believe that the Orca should be doing Compression and certainly not in High Sec. That's just bad for everyone and would make a main use of the Rorqual obsolete. The Rorqual has Mineral Compression to help in remote mining ops - not to, primarily, facilitate getting Ore/Mins to 0.0. We don't actually need Compression in High Sec. It is also obvious why I and others don't want the Orca usable by NPC pilots - we don't want to make life easier for the Farmers/Macro's. If someone got kicked from a Corp it would be a trivial exercise to make a Corp and join it to move the Orca..... What, I suspect most people want from the Orca is simple. A Mining Director's Command Ship to boost mining above the regular Command Ships (although I still say giving the Eos the Mining Gang modules 3% boost is a good idea) - say at 5%. And secondly, a way to make the logistics easier - so use of Capital (or Large) Tractor Beams and, I think, either a large Cargo bay (really large) - or, perhaps better, a 'Control Tower-like' mode that perhaps uses fuel (Heavy Water) but allows Freighters to come to access the Cargohold/Corp Hanger. That way a mining Corp would have a 'Commander', a single Freighter and a bunch of miners stripping belts - which is what people want, I do believe.
vanBuskirk Caldari	Posted - 2007.12.22 20:40:00 - [92] Ah, some of the repliers have started the "why don't people go into low-sec" discussion again. Answer: because the slightly better rewards don't justify the vastly increased risk. Low-sec is arguably more dangerous than 0.0; at least in 0.0 you can shoot the gankers before they shoot your corpmates, with no comeback even in the form of reduced sec status. It is my opinion that no matter how much CCP say they want people in low-sec (other than pirates and antipirates that is) they won't manage to get them there in any numbers. CCP have two mutually exclusive goals; spreading people out into low-sec and keeping the lawlessness of the same place. The only way that people are going to go into low-sec for anything other than an adrenaline rush or for piracy is for CCP to make it safer or for human nature to change. EVE is a game that has PvP aspects along with all the other stuff that goes to make it a complex, challenging game. PvP attracts griefers, always has attracted griefers and always will attract griefers. The real trouble is that the emphasis is so far in favour of PvP that everything else suffers. The heavy emphasis on PvP is by design. Unfortunately, CCP devs, you wanted a PvP game, so you are going to have to take the rough with the smooth. "Rough" in this case means that a large chunk of your carefully designed game universe is going to forever remain pretty well useless. ---------------------------------------------- "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
Menthal Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.23 21:37:00 - [93] when can we expect some real figures and features about the orca, sounds like a sweet thing to have with the remarks made in here pretty yellow beams
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2007.12.24 02:22:00 - [94] I honestly don't want the increased cargo space. All I want is a way to compress ore in high-sec. That is it. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Moon Dogg Gallente The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.12.24 03:56:00 - [95] Originally by: Pwett I honestly don't want the increased cargo space. All I want is a way to compress ore in high-sec. That is it. Yep, same here. *********************************** "Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me..."
Chauneko Sakyou	Posted - 2007.12.24 09:41:00 - [96] personally, I really like the idea of the orca, but here's what I'm looking for in a ship like this. 1. mining command bonuses - so far I don't think we've had any disagreement on this. 2. ore hauling/storage - lots of different views. both pro and con. ideas on how to do this are compression or a large cargo hold or both. personally, I favor both. I run a lot of three person mining ops (two barges and a hauler) and would like to see an ability for my hauler to do something other than twiddle their thumbs between each 37k m/3 that gets mined out. skilling for gang mining bonuses and then really helping the op out by giving us those and being able to haul the ore would be much appreciated. and I say give npc corp people the ability to use it. it would be very hard to add that kind of code to the game at this point I believe. also, it wouldn't stop the macroers from losing it. I watched about three haulers get popped today high-sec. this would just be a whole lot worse to lose :3 (read: the macroers would hate to chance losing that much profit, at which point I doubt that most of them would use it. also, if you make the requirements more than two months or so to train for, I highly doubt that many of them will actually get to use it.) I guess that's about all I have to say on it. ----------------------------------------------------------------
Cosmos Serendipity BRAHMA CORP	Posted - 2007.12.24 10:58:00 - [97] I'd mainly be happy with something that can hold more ore while providing the gang bonuses. But I have a few other idea's to go along with this. 1. Make it where the Orca can only compress the low end ore's. (Plag and below) 2. Add either fighter sized mining drones, or delivery drones to deliver things to miners that have a mining crystal blow out or replacement drones for when one gets poped by a rat. (Both would give the pilot a reason to watch the screen and not go afk) 3. Small corp hangar for spare drones and mining crystals (100 to 1000m3?) Thats my idea's for now
xena zena Dragons Of Redemption Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.24 14:40:00 - [98] My thoughts. Generally people like the idea of the orca being a kind of replacement for haulers in a mining op. If you give it a huge cargo bay, it will just directly compete with freighters (it would by nature be able to eject cans and take from cans in space, which freighters can't, and it will be able to mount a defense with a tank, which freighters can't.) So mineral compression is a must, for it to fulfill that role and not be an uber mini-freighter. With no jump drive and no need for a ship bay (can use a corp hanger though at 10,000m3 it can't do much) it can devote more internal space for more compression lines. Enough lines that it can compress huge amounts of minerals from big mining gangs fast enough that it won't need to have a larger cargo hold. The rorqual has 4 lines, give the Orca 8 lines and the same bonuses and slots as a rorqual, capital tractors, the whole nine-yards compact it down into a size that can fit through stargates, like freighter size. Then it's role in high-sec will be a replacement for haulers, able to tractor in and compress ores fast enough that its smaller cargo bay (50,000-100,000 expanded) can hold immense amounts of resources before it would have to dock or unload. For low-sec/null-sec it can be used to give bonuses/compress ores in remote space better than a rorqual (with jump bridges it can get there and back). The rorqual will be used for jump drive logistics and more quicker setup/torn down mining operations in deeper/more remote space. And the orca would be used for established systems that have jump bridges and good ores that alliances establish. I think this is a win-win proposal, both ships would have a useful role... _________________________
Marcus Tedric Gallente Tedric Enterprises Space Exploration and Logistic Services	Posted - 2007.12.24 17:11:00 - [99] Originally by: Moon Dogg Originally by: Pwett I honestly don't want the increased cargo space. All I want is a way to compress ore in high-sec. That is it. Yep, same here. But why???? What's the logic? You don't need to compress in High Sec - you just take it to the nearest Station and Refine
Wardo21 The Arcanum	Posted - 2007.12.24 17:25:00 - [100] I don't think a ship in hi-sec needs compression. Just as easy to add a compression factory to stations in hi-sec so that the low ends can be compressed and sent to null-sec. If you want to keep that out of the hands of the macroers, make it a heavy industrial and science skill requirements, perhaps Industry and Metalurgy 5, a science skill or two at 4 or 5 (compression physics?), along with the specific ore skill at 5. Make it a regular factory job if you don't want to add the new fangled compression slots. I would like to see something in the Transport class, with a larger cargo hold and a tractor range+speed bonus. Cap the cargo hold at 100k without rigs but accounting for tech 2 cargo hold expanders and skill bonus (if any), normal tech 2 limit of 2 rigs. Standard tractor beams would be fine for empire if the range was increased 100% per Transport level. Make it the teir 3 Transport for each race, requiring Transports 3. I don't have enough mining-interested corp mates to really get a good mining op running with the 8-9 participants where a command ship is warranted so this is the ship I need for mining ops. (See below) I'm all for making this a player corp use only item. The large capacity tractor beaming ship can be separate from the command ship for empire and lo-sec use. I think the command ship version should be a modified exhumer, keep each of the base exhmers, add command ships 1-3 for the 3 different command versions (Skiff-Hulk). Add 1 high slot for a command module, if you want to fit more use the command processors and sacrifice a strip miner/ice harvester. The 99% reduction in gang warfare CPU use would also be a requirement. I like this option for the command version best of all because I wouldn't loose so much of my own productivity. The devs would have to limit the number of fitted strip miners, or people would find ways to get another into the 4th high slot. (Strip miner hardpoints?) For some balance, remove the standard mining bonuses from the exhumer skill along with that requirement, but keep the barge bonus and requirement. Alternate balance, don't include the extra high slot on any ship but the Skiff, while retaining the exhumer bonus to the "base" model. The cost then becomes some number of strip miners. Slightly off topic: The laser optimization and cap gang link give 2% per director level (so 10% cycle reduction at level 5, 15% w/ mindlink). The range one is 4.5% (22.5% @ director 5, 33.75% w/ mindlink). Warfare link specialist gives 10% per level, so before any command ship bonus with link specialist 5, there is 21.5% (cycle and cap) and 50.625% (range) with the mindlink installed. A command ship bonus of 3% per level would add up to 15% more, 24.725% and 58.21875%. The 24.725% figure at maxed skills (and the non-extant command ship) means that the loss of the pilot from an exhumer to a command ship requires about 4 equally skilled pilots in exhumers to break even. I can't really factor in the range bonus, and IMNSHO the cap gang mod is worthless to exhumers. Without a command ship, the figure is just under 5 other pilots. Factor in haulers on a 2:1 basis and you're looking at a minimum of 6 other gang mates for a mining op to benefit from a command ship. (7-8 in a plain BC or other CMD). Back on topic, CCP needs to decide how small a corp it want's to assist with this sort of ship. I have at my disposal, depending on scheduling about 4 toons that don't mind mining (2 are mine!), maybe 2-3 more less skilled toons that would help if I twisted the player's arms. I'm almost at the break even point for jumping into a drake/ferox with gang mods, except for the lesser skilled folks skew the the equation. Does CCP want to help my sort of corp, or are they shooting for larger operations? Pricing in the billions seems out of reach as well for a small corp like mine. Wardo21
Suncats Shadow Caldari Archon Industries	Posted - 2007.12.24 18:01:00 - [101] I would just like a larger hauler for those large mining groups. Make the cargo able to hold 3 or 5 jet cans of ore; but only ore an nothing else. Having a normal tractor on it would be fine, since I see no problems with putting an AB on the thing to crawl the short distance required to get in range of miners spread out in a belt. Therefore you would need no compression or have to worry about the thing being used to replace freighter's in high sec as a cargo hauler. I agree that having the ability to use a couple of mining command modules on it would be nice for when the mining op gets started; but then once the hauling is going on you would be losing the bonuses each time the hauler docked or left the system. Therefore, I am fine with having the mining command modules being used on a support battleship. Well that is my 3 iskies worth.
Kamikazi ONE PROGENITOR CORPORATION	Posted - 2007.12.25 02:33:00 - [102] Originally by: Suncats Shadow I would just like a larger hauler for those large mining groups. Make the cargo able to hold 3 or 5 jet cans of ore; but only ore an nothing else Just make it able to hold the large cargo only when anchored in space, otherwise its just the size of a normal hauler. Add mining link bonuses to it and the marauder tractor bonuses and you have a good support ship for a mining op.
xena zena Dragons Of Redemption Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.25 07:59:00 - [103] to the people who say it doesn't need compression, let me share the fact that a rorqual's expanded cargo of about 125,000m3 when holding compressed ore is around 2,500,000m3 of uncompressed ore. Now people who have actually hauled and dealt with actual mining ops with many hulks will know how quickly you can fill a freighter will ore. There is NO WAY CCP will make a ship that holds over 2,000,000m3 in it's cargo, so the ocra to fulfill the role people want to sit in a belt and collect ore and eliminate the need for haulers will HAVE to compress ore. The rorqual has a 1,000,000m3 ship bay, why not logically get rid of that and add more compression lines then shrink the sucker down so it can fit through a stargate. Seriously, unless it's bonuses are MEGA to mining (which can cause mineral prices to drop even more!) it's pointless. We don't need more mining output! What is actually useful for both empire and 0.0 corps is a compression boat, more efficent then a rorqual. Rorquals with it's jump drive is a comprimise for it's compression. They're dead useful for logistics, like jumping out to a remote system, supporting a mining op and jumping back. Or for logistcs where a jump freighter won't do. But for most 0.0 alliances they have jump bridges established or can be established in any key mining system. Allowing a non-jump drive compression boat to come in and compress an op's output so that it can be hauled back. And really the 4 lines on a rorqual can compress crazy amounts of minerals fast. Basicly I think either make a compression boat that can compress mega amounts better then a rorqual, or just scrap the whole idea. More mining command bonuses = BAD IDEA Mineral prices are already tanked enough by the drone regions, adding more minerals to the market from mega bonus mining gangs will just make it worse. To fulfill the role as a mining hauler replacement it needs compression. _________________________
Menthal Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.25 11:23:00 - [104] why should the orca not get bonuses to gang when the rorqual has? i mean the mining gang booster gives bonus to: range, cycle time and cap use. Whilst it doesn't give a bonus to yield directly, any increase in these area's (the first 2 in particular) is largely welcomed by high sec miners. Since the increase in range means that you can (now) mine at a max of 22.5km and thus mine almost an entire belt from 1 spot without moving (and thus making mining more efficient). Same goes for the reduction to cycle time: the lower the cycle time the less time is waisted when a roid that is being mined is actually depleted before your cycle ends. in essense lowering the cycle time is also increasing the efficiency. i think the orca has a good possibility of being the greatest mining tool in highsec when it's being used by a good mining director. if it doesn't get a large cargohold it should get compression lines to cover for it, and thus increasing the skills needed to operate one, which, let's face it are rediculous in some areas: most mining directors come from combat orientated beginnings since you need a BC or a CS to slap the items on. to be able to use the Rorqual they have to learn mining barge to lvl 5, to be able to use the compression lines they need to learn adv production lvl. I've never seen this heavy and an exubalant skill need for any combat orientated ship (mining+production+leadership) and that's only to make it fly, give a bonus and make use of compression lines... my 2 oreunits pretty yellow beams
Kyle Antares	Posted - 2007.12.25 12:46:00 - [105] Edited by: Kyle Antares on 25/12/2007 12:48:33 Greetings everyone, well basical i can follow the concern thoughs about the macros and the moaning for profits changed by there doing... In a perfect world there wouldnt be such problems ... But... EVE is far from being a perfect world ... its an dark place where everyone does what is needed for his survival. Neither is EVE fair. Nor the real Universe is. In the end the concerns to make it a perfect world stuck in your heads and keep you busy here posting comments and complains, speaking with your buddys over it and hold you from enjoying your part of this wild and dark EVE Game Universe. Everyone has its place there ... And without the marcos doing there thing ... YOU the industrials .. the miners ... the people that actually work and play the game in your own way can stand up and say... were proud to do our job right ... were the honourfull workers on wich everthing in EVE is build. Without those that build there exist nothing ... because the workers are the foundation of every society. And good skilled workers demand good tools. A mining command base/platform ship for the high sec player coperations would be such a tool. There lots of players who not wish to enter the deadly lower sectors ...who just wish to be that pillar of society and enjoy building stuff for the other inhabitants of the Empires. So i conclude this post with a simple handfull of wishes ... ... a small sister for the rorqual that is striped ( or moded for high sec ) of all for high sec unneded stuff but still capabel to fill the roles for good high sec mining ops. ... more tolerance for and with everybody ... there will be always bad guys its an law of nature ... but without them you dont know youre one of the good ones ... ... a apel that falls of an tree to hit an ccp dev and make him add and not only dream and speak about some more nice stuff to make EVE an even more intresting place to enjoy... Have a great day and fly safe bros and sisters of EVE _ _ _ Kyle Antares
aphaderua Minmatar The Greater Good Novus Aevum	Posted - 2007.12.25 13:44:00 - [106] Seems like a great idea Wonder if it will still be capital , like a freighter http://smithcg.myminicity.com/
Jacque Custeau Knights of the Minmatar Republic	Posted - 2007.12.31 14:02:00 - [107] I would still like to see the Orca as the ship that makes ice mining bearable. I really don't have much in the way of ideas though -------------------
Athomis	Posted - 2007.12.31 17:27:00 - [108] Talk of adequate cargo pace is all well and dandy for regular ores,but what about Ice? Those blocks of ice are disproportionately huge,and an absolute bugger to haul. I'd be better off shifting it in the traditional way than even thinking of using this behemouth in its current form. Personally instead of compression,i'd like to see it able to refine ores,at least Ice ores,maybe the use or refining BPO's like we have for compression. Thats the only way I can see it being viable for larger Ice mining ops.
Tokuji Hayakawa	Posted - 2007.12.31 17:38:00 - [109] Damn if this ship is going to be tasty can't wait ;p
Night Soul	Posted - 2008.01.02 11:33:00 - [110] High sec pilots don't need some uber ship for high sec ops. What they do need is a way to keep ore thieves/pvp wannabes from taking thier jetcans. Basically what high sec miners need from the mini-Rorqual is it to be a giant can, with mining link bonuses, and a large tractor beam. The ship does not need to be a captial ship, but it would be nice to have something of central command platform for operations. High sec doesn't need a ship with compression. if CCP adds compression then add it to the thousands of stations in the game. Compression would just make it wanted for low sec ops and drive the price up. Also high sec does not need alot of armor/shield slots on it either....thus distinguishing the mini Rorqual from the real one. Just my opinion.
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.01.02 14:57:00 - [111] Originally by: Night Soul if CCP adds compression then add it to the thousands of stations in the game. Compression would just make it wanted for low sec ops and drive the price up. a) CCP just REMOVED compression from high-sec (stupid stupid) b) You can already use the rorqual in low-sec. c) if you want to avoid ore thieves, use your command ship pilot to drop the damn cans. d) high-sec anchorable POS compression module please. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Sin Fae Income Redistribution Service The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2008.01.02 16:06:00 - [112] Edited by: Sin Fae on 02/01/2008 16:08:25 Edited by: Sin Fae on 02/01/2008 16:07:39 Originally by: Night Soul High sec pilots don't need some uber ship for high sec ops. What they do need is a way to keep ore thieves/pvp wannabes from taking thier jetcans. Basically what high sec miners need from the mini-Rorqual is it to be a giant can, with mining link bonuses, and a large tractor beam. The ship does not need to be a captial ship, but it would be nice to have something of central command platform for operations. Just my opinion. As long as there are jet-cans there will be ore thieves. It's a little more difficult, but I have stolen full jettison cans of ore while being tractored in a frigate. Would probably hit the amateaurs hard tho I imagine. Originally by: Pwett c) if you want to avoid ore thieves, use your command ship pilot to drop the damn cans. That won't stop ore thieves. Only thing that will stop theft is a ship that can suck all ores like a hulk with a mega cargo, (and hulk comes pretty close except for ice). However, I doubt (and hope) we don't see a ship like that for a while. Actually, this thing (with ore compression) will make a great thief hauler. I could have really used this thing a couple days ago when I was backlogged 5 cans from thievi- er tax collecting.
Aarin Wrath	Posted - 2008.01.02 17:17:00 - [113] Originally by: Marcus Tedric Originally by: Moon Dogg Originally by: Pwett I honestly don't want the increased cargo space. All I want is a way to compress ore in high-sec. That is it. Yep, same here. But why???? What's the logic? You don't need to compress in High Sec - you just take it to the nearest Station and Refine Yes you do. If you have ever been on a mining op with more than a few barges you need a fleet of haulers to keep up. This is especially the case if there are a bunch of hulks in the barge group. High sec ore compression would allow a single hauler to support more than 2-3 hulks mining away at full tilt. This problem is exasperated if the system has no stations in it. High sec ore compression is the key feature of the Roqual, and it should also be the key feature of the Orca. It can be slower, it can be limited in some fasion, but I belive it should be there.
Alaxandrea Trigena	Posted - 2008.01.02 23:03:00 - [114]
Tokuji Hayakawa	Posted - 2008.01.04 22:35:00 - [115] Originally by: Aarin Wrath Originally by: Marcus Tedric Originally by: Moon Dogg Originally by: Pwett I honestly don't want the increased cargo space. All I want is a way to compress ore in high-sec. That is it. Yep, same here. But why???? What's the logic? You don't need to compress in High Sec - you just take it to the nearest Station and Refine ..and what about Ice Ore in any meaningful amount? I say let the thing refine instead of compress and as mention previously allow Frighters to dock in space. Yes you do. If you have ever been on a mining op with more than a few barges you need a fleet of haulers to keep up. This is especially the case if there are a bunch of hulks in the barge group. High sec ore compression would allow a single hauler to support more than 2-3 hulks mining away at full tilt. This problem is exasperated if the system has no stations in it. High sec ore compression is the key feature of the Roqual, and it should also be the key feature of the Orca. It can be slower, it can be limited in some fasion, but I belive it should be there.
Marcus Tedric Gallente Tedric Enterprises Space Exploration and Logistic Services	Posted - 2008.01.05 10:54:00 - [116] Not sure what the last post added...... The Rorqual cannot compress ore in High Sec. And neither should the Orca. Logistics in this simulation should not be made even easier. The Rorqual has compression to make one thing easier - remote mining operations away from a station in Low-Sec or Null-Sec, it's not actually designed to move compressed Ore/Mins from Empire to 0.0. Some simplification of logistics in a game is necessary because it's not RL and most people cannot devote RL-time to it - however, making it too simple detracts greatly from the simulation and makes holding space perhaps too easy. Checks and Balences and Risk vs Reward. There's also little point in employing a Economist to analayse things if the game distorts the reality too much and becomes totally artificial.
Sciathica Malhavoc Caldari Maniacal Miners INC	Posted - 2008.01.05 18:45:00 - [117] all the suggestions are all fine and well. and some great intelligence going into it, but is there even a firm release date, or more then a whisper that its being worked on? Beware the might of the mining laser, you neverk now when your hull may be processed!
Herring Infinatech	Posted - 2008.01.06 03:20:00 - [118] Originally by: Menthal why should the orca not get bonuses to gang when the rorqual has? i mean the mining gang booster gives bonus to: range, cycle time and cap use. Whilst it doesn't give a bonus to yield directly, any increase in these area's (the first 2 in particular) is largely welcomed by high sec miners. Since the increase in range means that you can (now) mine at a max of 22.5km and thus mine almost an entire belt from 1 spot without moving (and thus making mining more efficient). Same goes for the reduction to cycle time: the lower the cycle time the less time is waisted when a roid that is being mined is actually depleted before your cycle ends. in essense lowering the cycle time is also increasing the efficiency. i think the orca has a good possibility of being the greatest mining tool in highsec when it's being used by a good mining director. if it doesn't get a large cargohold it should get compression lines to cover for it, and thus increasing the skills needed to operate one, which, let's face it are rediculous in some areas: most mining directors come from combat orientated beginnings since you need a BC or a CS to slap the items on. to be able to use the Rorqual they have to learn mining barge to lvl 5, to be able to use the compression lines they need to learn adv production lvl. I've never seen this heavy and an exubalant skill need for any combat orientated ship (mining+production+leadership) and that's only to make it fly, give a bonus and make use of compression lines... my 2 oreunits I have to agree...on both the compression and the lack of mining bonuses. If it could just compress enough ore for an op in a system without a station (2-3 guys for 2-3 hours) then it fulfills a role that is absent from the game now. But it should be able to hold all that ore (and only ore). CCP - please stop with the nerfing and boost something already.
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.01.06 04:15:00 - [119] Originally by: Marcus Tedric And neither should the Orca. Logistics in this simulation should not be made even easier. I'm not to bother arguing with you, but look at it this way, do you know how much high-sec tritanium needs to be moved to 0.0 to build one mom? 1.26 billion worth, that's 16 freighter loads. You're telling me we DON'T need to compress ore in high-sec now that they moved the old-fashioned way of doing it? Listen, I don't care how much it helps you mine, or the bonus it gives to mining, we just need a way to compress ore in high-sec. Make a high-sec anchorable compression POS module please. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Marcus Tedric Gallente Tedric Enterprises Space Exploration and Logistic Services	Posted - 2008.01.06 12:20:00 - [120] Originally by: Pwett Originally by: Marcus Tedric And neither should the Orca. Logistics in this simulation should not be made even easier. I'm not to bother arguing with you, but look at it this way, do you know how much high-sec tritanium needs to be moved to 0.0 to build one mom? 1.26 billion worth, that's 16 freighter loads. You're telling me we DON'T need to compress ore in high-sec now that they moved the old-fashioned way of doing it? Listen, I don't care how much it helps you mine, or the bonus it gives to mining, we just need a way to compress ore in high-sec. Make a high-sec anchorable compression POS module please. No, we don't have to argue at all - it's a dicussion. And yes, I too can calculate the amount of minerals, particulary Tritanium, that would be needed to build Mom's and Titans - which are, after all, the ONLY items in EVE that HAVE to be built in 0.0. However, the parts that make up those ships CAN be made in Empire and shipped out there - but it would take a lot of Freighter runs - however Jump Bridges have made that much easier. But the real point is that ALL the minerals needed to make ships CAN be found out in 0.0 - it's just that people don't mine them like, I suggest, the simulation is designed. For my part I wish the EVE Logic and Physics Engine were much more 'realistic' - there should never have been even the potential for Mineral Compression and there should never have been Perfect Reprocessing.
Tokuji Hayakawa	Posted - 2008.01.06 12:35:00 - [121] Edited by: Tokuji Hayakawa on 06/01/2008 12:37:27 Apologies for that Marcus Tedric, for some reason the forum chewed my post. What I was trying to say is that compression is unecessary for the Orca in HighSec. For ice in any reasonably large gang,the cargo room is insufficient,it would be better to use rigged/expanded haulers. For minerals its a little better,but still without compression not ideal. I was proposing allowing the ship to have refining instead of compression lines,and (as others mentioned previously)allow in space docking for Freighters. This would solve the Ice problem,and also allow for mining ops in orphaned systems(no station),without enabling compression in High Sec. Taking this further I suppose if you had the Isk you could use a jump freighter to collect the ore from the op mooch to low sec and compress it via Rorqual then jump it to 0.0. Would certainly be a boost to logistics after the carrier balancing. Linkage I asked the same question,was it happening or no,see the thread above for Chronotis' reply (helping keep the thread going).
Riley Craven Caldari Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.06 17:21:00 - [122] Originally by: Marcus Tedric No, we don't have to argue at all - it's a dicussion. And yes, I too can calculate the amount of minerals, particulary Tritanium, that would be needed to build Mom's and Titans - which are, after all, the ONLY items in EVE that HAVE to be built in 0.0. However, the parts that make up those ships CAN be made in Empire and shipped out there - but it would take a lot of Freighter runs - however Jump Bridges have made that much easier. But the real point is that ALL the minerals needed to make ships CAN be found out in 0.0 - it's just that people don't mine them like, I suggest, the simulation is designed. For my part I wish the EVE Logic and Physics Engine were much more 'realistic' - there should never have been even the potential for Mineral Compression and there should never have been Perfect Reprocessing. I think the reason Pwett said he wouldnt argue with you was because your posts dont make any sense. I however LOVE to argue with people to show them the error of their ways. 1. Cap ship comps are HEAVIER than the minerals it uses to build them. Therefore, it would foolish to build cap ship comps and haul them anywhere. 2. Have you asked yourself why no one mines trir in 0.0? Do you know why it would be foolish to do so? Have you thought about how the eve economy works at all? Please point me to where the devs stated that it was designed that 0.0 was supposed to be the place that you had to activities designed for empire, or that players should just mine trit in 0.0 3. Have you participated in the upkeep of an ACTUAL allaince, (aka BoB, ASCN, Red, or any other big name) When I say participated I mean put in charge of keeping allaince level affairs in top working order? If the answer is No I would kindly ask you to keep to yourself about what logistics should and should not be.
Riley Craven Caldari Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.06 17:25:00 - [123] Originally by: Tokuji Hayakawa Edited by: Tokuji Hayakawa on 06/01/2008 12:37:27 Apologies for that Marcus Tedric, for some reason the forum chewed my post. What I was trying to say is that compression is unecessary for the Orca in HighSec. For ice in any reasonably large gang,the cargo room is insufficient,it would be better to use rigged/expanded haulers. For minerals its a little better,but still without compression not ideal. I was proposing allowing the ship to have refining instead of compression lines,and (as others mentioned previously)allow in space docking for Freighters. This would solve the Ice problem,and also allow for mining ops in orphaned systems(no station),without enabling compression in High Sec. Taking this further I suppose if you had the Isk you could use a jump freighter to collect the ore from the op mooch to low sec and compress it via Rorqual then jump it to 0.0. Would certainly be a boost to logistics after the carrier balancing. Linkage I asked the same question,was it happening or no,see the thread above for Chronotis' reply (helping keep the thread going). I think you may have given this some thought, but I think more is required. When designing a ship these questions must be answered. What role is it going to fill? What problem does it solve? Is there a problem it could solve? At this point in Eve history adding ships to do the jobs of other ships just doesnt make sense. Things need to be balanced and have a purpose. In high sec what role does the orca need to have? This is the problem the CCP seems to always fail at, and what other people seem to fail at as well in ship design. Right now there are several problems that need to be addressed in this game. Compression is one of them.
Techster	Posted - 2008.01.06 19:52:00 - [124] I think the baby brother of a rorqual (especially if the price falls in line, such as 600m-1b) could be a nice boost for the smaller corps trying to startup in empire and gives them something to help them move to the lowsec arena. Yes this could help macroers, but they'll find a way to use every game mechanic anyways so why hurt the people that could use it correctly just because some may not? A nice way to reduce the compression if you're worried about it flooding the market is require a level (or two or some combination) of the ship skill for each extra line for compression runs. Maybe 0 to a max of 4 for lines. This ship shoudl have roughly 1/2 to 2/3 the cargo hold of a normal Rorqual and no it shouldn't have jump capabilities or a clone vat. This could also be used to augment a mining fleet in 0.0 that doesn't need any more rorquals, but may need just a few extra compression slots and already has a way to get the compression out without needing it jumped. Posted in here was a suggestion of it being used as a mission salvage ship. On some level 4 missions i think this is a great idea, but if CCP doesn't want it used in this role it needs to take action before hand to prevent these from being able to go into those complexes. On the otherhand if CCP does like this idea, then instead of the full range on tractor beams, also give it a bonus to salavage (either time, distance, or success as all can be handy to get people to salvage more from missions).
Nekopyat	Posted - 2008.01.06 21:29:00 - [125] Originally by: Marcus Tedric And neither should the Orca. Logistics in this simulation should not be made even easier. Not sure I agree here. Any section of a simulation that is grind oriented opens up the floodgates to gold farmers. Mining logictics in high-sec is a good example of this effect. Quote: The Rorqual has compression to make one thing easier - remote mining operations away from a station in Low-Sec or Null-Sec, it's not actually designed to move compressed Ore/Mins from Empire to 0.0. Here is where we get into the classic problem of game mechanics vs role playing. The Rorqual has features that people want in high-sec. If this were a real market economy, one of those shild building companies would be pouring resources into building a high-sec version with the feature set that mining ops would want to buy. If there is a demand for ore compression in high sec, then some corp should be providing it unless there is a very good in-game reason for why this process only works far away from CONCORD (maybe thier uber ships emit a field that stops compression from working?)
Mac Dodger	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:34:00 - [126] Edited by: Mac Dodger on 10/01/2008 23:36:44 The following is just my opinion and yes it might not mean anything to you and you arenÆt required to read but if you do please keep this in mind. Now; from my understand of the Rorqual, it was designed to be a remote mining platform for remote locations, being able to support 4 - 5 miners, in far reaches. I conclude this from the following: 1.Clone bay û used to allow pilots to get the location of mining operations without being killed 2.Ship maintenance bay û So that the pilot doesnÆt have to risk his ship to get to mining locations 3.Jump Drive û so that Rorqual itself can get to location with minimal risk. 4.Ore compression û to hope a large amount of ore because it is unable to return to the station with ease to unload its cargo. A well skilled Hulk pilot with implants can pull around 1800 per laser giving 5400m3 ever three minutes. With a party of five a single haul can keep himself very much entertained. The problem that arises is when you have a mining party of fifteen plus, you are now looking at one hauler for every five hulks. The role that needs to be filed here is a ship that can replace three haulers and allow the other to haulers to join the mining party. I donÆt think we need ore compression to accomplish this role, just a large cargo hold and some tractor beams. Now with everything in eve there needs to be a trade off. First the ship should be expensive to build which would require countless hour of mining before it becomes profitable, like a freighter. Also if the ship consumed a fuel, like heavy water to operate, this would make the ship only desirable to mining parties with numbers that can still make using the ship profitable. So after all my hot are and logic I present this: Orca: 1.Freighter that cannot hold anything but ore. 2.Cargo holds are locked while in space until seiged. 3.Can use Gang Assist Modules 4.Capital Tractor Beam 5.Industrial Core 6.Fuel bay (since cargo hold cannot hold anything but ore) 7.Cargo hold size from 800,000m3 based upon above numbers. 8.And of course the last thing; a little sprinkling of mining command bonus donÆt hurt either. Please remember these are rough ideas, and again based upon the above points Thanks for reading and I look forward to any constructive comments you may have. MD
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.01.11 02:26:00 - [127] I do not agree with the premise that the rorqual is a mining or hauling ship. It does nothing a carrier with a small pos in it's hold couldn't already do, and it terms of hostile territory operation, do better. It has a few more bells and whistles like a few more percent of mining command bonus' and a larger maintenance bay, but in terms of those two items, they're not enough to outweigh the lack of protection a carrier can field at a moments notice. That said, the rorqual is a compression ship, and compression needs to be the focus of the orca. With the removal of jump-bridging freighters, carrier hauling, and module compression, this role is more important that it has ever been before. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2008.01.11 10:04:00 - [128] Originally by: Pwett I do not agree with the premise that the rorqual is a mining or hauling ship. It does nothing a carrier with a small pos in it's hold couldn't already do, and it terms of hostile territory operation, do better. It has a few more bells and whistles like a few more percent of mining command bonus' and a larger maintenance bay, but in terms of those two items, they're not enough to outweigh the lack of protection a carrier can field at a moments notice. That said, the rorqual is a compression ship, and compression needs to be the focus of the orca. With the removal of jump-bridging freighters, carrier hauling, and module compression, this role is more important that it has ever been before. You're right, compression is the big feature of the rorqual. But it doesn't have this role in order to replace module compression. The ore compression was given to the rorqual for the very specific reason of aiding in the belt->refinery part of the supply chain. That you can make it useful in other parts of the chain by holding off on refining till the last possible moment is more a convenient side-effect than the main purpose. Ore compression for the belt->refinery journey is useful in 0.0 because of the much sparser distribution of decent refineries. That's the primary reason why the rorqual gives you in-space assembly lines, rather than tying the capability to more permanent infrastructure. The same argument would be almost completely irrelevant for empire space, where the majority of systems have at least one 50% refinery in them. If the intention is to give compression in the refinery->market/manufacturing stage, then deliberately doing this via ore compression alone is an unnecessarily awkward mechanism to do so. It would also be distorting to the market, as refining it to trade the individual minerals would instantly make it much less mobile. The majority of mobile trade would go into compressed ores, so you could easily develop situations where demand for one mineral drew in lots of ore, and caused a glut in the "byproduct" minerals of the process. Compression in this stage would be much better served by proper mineral compression (i.e. specific Compressed Tritanium, Compressed Pyerite etc). These could easily be balanced to give mineral densities comparable to what you'd achieve with ore compression, and you could even add in extra material requirements to act as the "fuel" element if required. There is also no reason why this should not be performed in normal manufacturing lines, because there is no need for it to occur in-space (unlike the rorqual where the whole point is to compress it at the point of mining). Giving the two stages of the supply chain different mechanisms would also give you the option of balancing it differently, as what is a balanced compression ratio for belt->refinery hauling may not be the most appropriate ratio for more general mineral mobility - though the mineral ratio could never be appreciably less than the ore compression equivalent, otherwise people would just use ore compression instead. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.01.11 14:45:00 - [129] I agree completely that mineral compression would be much more favourable to asteroid compression in high-sec. excellent idea. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Herring Alcatraz Inc. Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2008.01.12 11:41:00 - [130] I'd agree that the orca, should it ever come to be, should have compression. Mineral compression as described by Matthew there makes a lot of sense to me. However I think there is a vacuum that this ship could address, and that is the systems in both high and lowsec empire that don't have refineries. Either give it the capacity to haul the compressed ore from an op or compressed minerals back to the desired destination. As for putting up a pos for systems like this, yes, it can be done. But not for every system you want to mine in, and especially not in highsec without proper standing (or increased cost for fuel, etc). It'd be more economically feasible if the platform for your mining operations wasn't 24/7 isk sink, and could travel to another location on fairly short notice. As far as mining bonuses, meh, it doesn't really need them. CCP - please stop with the nerfing and boost something already.
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2008.01.12 15:44:00 - [131] Originally by: Herring I'd agree that the orca, should it ever come to be, should have compression. Mineral compression as described by Matthew there makes a lot of sense to me. Well, my argument is that there is no need for mineral compression to occur in-space in a ship. The mere fact that you have minerals to compress instead of ore indicates that you have already got the material back to a station or POS in order to refine them, so it seems much more appropriate to have the mineral compression occur in the station or POS - which would be in normal manufacturing facilities (either NPC or POS based). The whole point of having ore compression a ship-based ability is so that it can occur at the point of mining. As mineral compression could never occur at the point of mining anyway, the main reason for it being ship-based is removed. Making mineral compression a ship-based ability would just lead to piles and piles of orcas sitting afk at safespots (or in POS bubbles if there's a real risk of attack) running mineral compression. Having the mineral compression ability in the ship would do nothing but add yet another incredibly boring, primarily afk mechanism to industry. Which is really not what we need. Originally by: Herring However I think there is a vacuum that this ship could address, and that is the systems in both high and lowsec empire that don't have refineries. Either give it the capacity to haul the compressed ore from an op or compressed minerals back to the desired destination. The distance to the nearest refinery in high-sec space is usually very short, much shorter than you'd find in the areas the rorqual is intended to be used in (which includes low-sec space as well as 0.0). The distance to the refinery is a key element of balance in terms of the cost of performing ore compression. If the refinery is very close, then ore compression has to be cheap and quick to make it the preferred option. However if you make it too cheap, it becomes unbalanced compared to the alternatives (particularly the POS refinery arrays). In high-sec space, it's pretty much never very far to the nearest refinery, so ore compression on the orca would have to be very cheap if it was going to be a viable option. But you can't make the orca compression cheaper than the rorqual, else everyone would use orcas instead of rorquals in low-sec/0.0 space. Yet if you make the rorqual cheap enough to match what would be needed on the orca, you'd make it unbalanced compared to the other low-sec/0.0 options. Originally by: Herring As for putting up a pos for systems like this, yes, it can be done. But not for every system you want to mine in, and especially not in highsec without proper standing (or increased cost for fuel, etc). In systems without an NPC refinery, but with a station, people don't bother with a POS anyway, they haul to the station and transfer to a freighter for the haul to a refinery. In systems with no NPC station at all, people put up a very limited POS - a small tower with a corp hangar array, to enable the transfer to a freighter. That tells me that the key to high-sec operations in these refinery-less systems is in getting the stuff into a freighter as quickly as possible. Which is where my suggestion of the orca having a large deployable cargohold, and the ability to transfer to a freighter while deployed comes in. This provides a big boost in efficiency by completely eliminating the belt->transfer_station stage of hauling, without having to wrestle with balancing ore compression to make it viable when the nearest refinery is likely just 1 safe jump away. It also means the orcas ability is useful in the vast majority of high-sec systems which do have a refinery, where ore compression just for the belt->station leg would be the height of pointlessness. An extra bonus of this idea is that it gives the orca a potential role in low-sec/0.0 operations that can compliment rather than compete with the rorqual. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.01.12 19:44:00 - [132] The argument for the compression is that it needs to exist in high-sec so that there is way to get all that high-sec down to 0.0 without having to use freighter trains of uncompressed ore. I didn't think about the whole mineral compression, unless the orca had the ability to compress from ore > compressed mineral, which would sidestep the refinery process... which loses the mineral tax sink, but skill-wise it should have the same pre-requisites as perfect refine, which the Rorqual already requires. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2008.01.13 01:33:00 - [133] Originally by: Pwett The argument for the compression is that it needs to exist in high-sec so that there is way to get all that high-sec down to 0.0 without having to use freighter trains of uncompressed ore. I agree there needs to be a compression-for-transport route for what you describe. But both refineries and manufacturing facilities are so plentiful in empire that having a ship to perform that role would be largely redundant. If you're going to have a ship sitting in space to do something, there has to be a good reason why it has to perform that activity in space, otherwise it just becomes a pointless afk time sink. I just don't see that need with compression in empire space. Originally by: Pwett I didn't think about the whole mineral compression, unless the orca had the ability to compress from ore > compressed mineral, which would sidestep the refinery process... which loses the mineral tax sink, but skill-wise it should have the same pre-requisites as perfect refine, which the Rorqual already requires. An interesting idea, and not something I'd intended with the mechanism. In terms of refining taxes and losses, it would be fairly balanced if you made sure that converting compressed minerals into usable minerals involved a refining process that had the same tax and efficiency sinks as refining the ore. Of course, you would still need an alternative mineral->compressed mineral route, as well as the ore->compressed mineral route, to avoid the problem of "stranding" refined minerals in an untransportable state. And it still has the problem that an orca producing compressed minerals directly from ores would make the POS refining arrays completely obsolete. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Marcus Tedric Gallente Tedric Enterprises Space Exploration and Logistic Services	Posted - 2008.01.13 10:58:00 - [134] Whilst I fully understand the 0.0 dwellers' desire to be able to trundle large quantities of Trit, Pyer and probably Mex out there..... There's no actual logical reason to. The Ore/Mins is all available out there - it's just that they struggle to get people to mine it there. And even then, nothing is stopping High Sec Ore being moved to Low Sec using a Freighter (even Jump Freighter) where a Rorqual can Compress it. There is a balence to be drawn between a beautifully complex simulation where we can really pretend we are there..... And a game that is playable given that we don't live there... Mineral compression is an absurdity really - currently CCP allows us to still do it, but at more modest levels than before. For my part, a Mining Director's Command ship with bonuses is currently missing from the panoply - to reduce the hauler work in a mining op it either needs a Large Cargohold - or to pretend to be an Online POS Tower allowing Freighters to load Ore. A T2 Mining Capital Ship (suitable bonuses) also able to use Capital Tractor Beams and we're really getting something extra.
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.01.13 16:56:00 - [135] Originally by: Marcus Tedric The Ore/Mins is all available out there - it's just that they struggle to get people to mine it there. Not in sufficient quantities to support super-cap production. Your biggest source of low-ends in 0.0 are hauler spawns, and even then it would take 20+ of the perfect trit ones alone to cover the requirements of 1 MS. The most Veldspar an asteroid will ever have will be 2 jetcans worth (tested growth over 6 months) and that's assuming you have time to let them grow. There are also less of the low-end asteroids in 0.0 so per belt, you get FAR less trit than you do in a high-sec belt - assuming you are taking full advantage of your space and stripping the belts on respawn. So, yes, 0.0 REQUIRES the low-ends available from high-sec. And 2) you will never see my Rorqual in low-sec until there is a way to functionally lock down a system. And no, I don't subscribe to the mothership-gate-smartbomb tactic in EVE :) _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Per Bastet Amarr B.O.O.M Socius Tutaminis Velox	Posted - 2008.01.13 17:24:00 - [136] When I think of the Orca I think of a Mini Carrier. So it would be a Cap Ship, but No Jump Drive. Large Drone bay, maybe even good for Fighters, Or Fighter Sized Mining Drones. No Ship Hanger No Corp Hanger 10k or so Cargo Bay Siege Module that Increases it's Mining Support Bonuses. Maybe the same Support Bonuses as the Rorqual. Siege Module would use Fuel in the same Manner as the Rorqual NO COMPRESSION - The Rorqual needs to keep it's uniqueness Decent Tank, But nothing to Write Home about This ship should be a High Sec Mining Support Ship, not a Uber Mining Ship.
Rattus Mordax	Posted - 2008.01.13 17:48:00 - [137] the capital mining lasers could always just spit out compressed ore immediately.
Riley Craven Caldari Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.14 03:41:00 - [138] Originally by: Rattus Mordax the capital mining lasers could always just spit out compressed ore immediately. Personally, I would LOVE that idea...sadly for us CCP has no intention on ever making compression at all easy. Lets face it CCP loves to needless complicate game mechanics... "fun" (aka easy) is obviously not in their vocabulary. Couse Eve was never an instant gratification game. (you even have to wait for targets)
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2008.01.14 09:52:00 - [139] Originally by: Rattus Mordax the capital mining lasers could always just spit out compressed ore immediately. Yes, because that wouldn't obsolete the rorqual at all. Oh no. A capital ship with auto-compressing lasers would be completely overpowered, and do for mining vessels what pre-nerf carriers did for combat and hauling vessels. We do not need another tier of uber-mining ship. What we need is a high-sec capable ship that will encourage group mining by giving a benefit to proper teamwork, without obsoleting either the existing mining ships, or the rorqual in low-sec/0.0 space. Originally by: Riley Craven Personally, I would LOVE that idea...sadly for us CCP has no intention on ever making compression at all easy. Lets face it CCP loves to needless complicate game mechanics... "fun" (aka easy) is obviously not in their vocabulary. Couse Eve was never an instant gratification game. (you even have to wait for targets) Fun is not aka easy, unless you're talking about an element of the game that doesn't personally appeal to you. You treat it like an awkward necessity that should be minimzed as far as possible, rather than the integral part of gameplay that it is. Making stuff easy devalues the activity, and reduces the fun for those players that enjoy the challenge of that activity. It also devalues those players as part of a corp/alliance, because those who prefer other playstyles do not value that contribution because it's so easy. Compression via the rorqual, or via the sort of mineral compression I suggested, does let you make the hauling easier. But unlike the magic compressing mining laser idea, it's a transfer of effort, not a straight elimination. Which ensures that what you are replacing is still valued, because it's replacement has it's own costs and drawbacks. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Tokuji Hayakawa	Posted - 2008.01.14 15:05:00 - [140] Not to harp on here but without the ability to Reduce Ores,by either compression or refining,this ship will be worthless for Ice Mining. Its ok to talk in terms of normal ores but what of Ice,it should address all forms of mining,not just mineral ores. I still stand by letting it refine in space and allow frieghters to dock,no need for compression then.
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2008.01.14 15:59:00 - [141] Originally by: Tokuji Hayakawa Not to harp on here but without the ability to Reduce Ores,by either compression or refining,this ship will be worthless for Ice Mining. Its ok to talk in terms of normal ores but what of Ice,it should address all forms of mining,not just mineral ores. I still stand by letting it refine in space and allow frieghters to dock,no need for compression then. Putting ice refining ability on the ship would make it massively overpowered compared to the POS refining arrays, unless you significantly nerfed the refining yield, at which point it becomes an unattractive option and would be largely pointless. For high-sec, the situation is entirely the same as for ore - there's no point compressing the ice, because 99% of the time you'll only be hauling the ice direct from the belt to the station within the same system. Simply allowing the freighter to load up from the orca in-belt is a far more effective way of boosting this stage. For low-sec/0.0, any compression ability should be on the Rorqual, not the orca. We don't need an entirely new ship just for ice. And again, if you want to be able to compress the refined ice products for further transport, that can be handled in normal manufacturing facilities (either station or POS based), there's no need for it to happen in the belt. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Riley Craven Caldari Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.14 18:25:00 - [142] Originally by: Matthew Fun is not aka easy, unless you're talking about an element of the game that doesn't personally appeal to you. You treat it like an awkward necessity that should be minimzed as far as possible, rather than the integral part of gameplay that it is. Making stuff easy devalues the activity, and reduces the fun for those players that enjoy the challenge of that activity. It also devalues those players as part of a corp/alliance, because those who prefer other playstyles do not value that contribution because it's so easy. Compression via the rorqual, or via the sort of mineral compression I suggested, does let you make the hauling easier. But unlike the magic compressing mining laser idea, it's a transfer of effort, not a straight elimination. Which ensures that what you are replacing is still valued, because it's replacement has it's own costs and drawbacks. I suppose we will just have to agree to disagree. Because 1. Mining is never "fun" its a boring task, yet it also one of the easiest task to do in eve aside from setting up manufacturing jobs. So that leads me to 2. Mining being easy has not devauled its role in the economy, and 3. There should not be "boring" tasks in a computer ->GAME<- If something is boring it is no longer a game. Now, what I was refering to in my arguement, that you seem to have misunderstood, is that compression in its current form is a real pita and most of the stuff I find on these forums about it suggest that its a real task and not many people like it. Instead I think the cap mining laser would have been a better idea instead of the manufacturing lanes we currently have. i.e. compression done right. Am I saying that the Cap mining laser idea in that form was the perfect idea? No, I am saying it would have been better than compression lanes.
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.01.14 19:08:00 - [143] I think Riley is correct when he basically says we shouldn't accept the premise that the Rorqual got it right the first time. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Xavier Iblis	Posted - 2008.01.14 22:38:00 - [144] Edited by: Xavier Iblis on 14/01/2008 22:39:32 Originally by: Riley Craven I suppose we will just have to agree to disagree. Because 1. Mining is never "fun" its a boring task, yet it also one of the easiest task to do in eve aside from setting up manufacturing jobs. So that leads me to 2. Mining being easy has not devauled its role in the economy, and 3. There should not be "boring" tasks in a computer ->GAME<- If something is boring it is no longer a game. I'd disagree here. I find mining to be very relaxing and the fun part of it comes when I refine and sell my minerals for good profit. MMOs are built on the "a little bit of effort now leads to great satisfaction and pride later" attitude. If that satisfaction and pride isn't enough to justify the effort then for you it is not fun. For me, it very much is. Anyway, I feel that there is no reason not to allow the Orca to ore-compress other than people might not want to use the Rorqual if the Orca is cheaper. If the Rorqual is just straight up better than the Orca, which it will be, then there's not really much of a problem three. Not wanting ore-compression in high-sec makes little sense to me... "It's not needed since there are many stations around to haul to." So? Just because you're content to haul to station and refine doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to get my new shiny. The other bit is the freighter idea puts it out of reach of a lot of smaller corps. Scraping together 1bil for a big ship is one thing... Scraping together 2bil for 2 big ships is another. I'm apparently failing to understand the arguments that would keep ore-compression out of high-sec.
Riley Craven Caldari Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.15 00:08:00 - [145] Originally by: Xavier Iblis I'd disagree here. I find mining to be very relaxing and the fun part of it comes when I refine and sell my minerals for good profit. MMOs are built on the "a little bit of effort now leads to great satisfaction and pride later" attitude. If that satisfaction and pride isn't enough to justify the effort then for you it is not fun. For me, it very much is. Well your kind helping me in my point actually. Course I tend to see things in a segmented view rather than shades of a issues. Relaxing to me doesnt equate to fun, but it doesnt equate to boring either. I would think most people would see fun as perhaps raised endorphine(sp) levels, or adrinalin (sp) where as relaxing I would think involved either of those (though to be fair I could be talking out of my but since I a computer nerd and not a biochem nerd) fun (fn) n. 1. A source of enjoyment, amusement, or pleasure. 2. Enjoyment; amusement: have fun at the beach. 3. Playful, often noisy, activity. intr.v. funned, fun+ning, funs Informal To behave playfully; joke bored verb past tense and past participle of to bore adjective (more bored, most bored) suffering from boredom uninterested, without attention The piano teacher's look betrayed he wasn't paying much attention to his pupil's boringly stereotype rendition of the brilliantly composed etudes perforated by a hole or holes through bioerosion So by these definitions above, mining wouldnt fit into fun in any sense of the word. Though it does seem to fit relaxing and bored very well :) re+lax (r-lks) v. re+laxed, re+lax+ing, re+lax+es v.tr. 1. To make lax or loose: relax one's grip. 2. To make less severe or strict: relax a curfew. 3. To reduce in intensity; slacken: relax one's efforts. 4. To relieve from tension or strain: The warm bath relaxed me. v.intr. 1. To take one's ease; rest. 2. To become lax or loose. 3. To become less severe or strict. 4. To become less restrained or tense.
Chauneko Sakyou	Posted - 2008.01.15 04:33:00 - [146] Originally by: Riley Craven Originally by: Xavier Iblis I'd disagree here. I find mining to be very relaxing and the fun part of it comes when I refine and sell my minerals for good profit. MMOs are built on the "a little bit of effort now leads to great satisfaction and pride later" attitude. If that satisfaction and pride isn't enough to justify the effort then for you it is not fun. For me, it very much is. Well your kind helping me in my point actually. Course I tend to see things in a segmented view rather than shades of a issues. Relaxing to me doesnt equate to fun, but it doesnt equate to boring either. I would think most people would see fun as perhaps raised endorphine(sp) levels, or adrinalin (sp) where as relaxing I would think involved either of those (though to be fair I could be talking out of my but since I a computer nerd and not a biochem nerd) fun (fn) n. 1. A source of enjoyment, amusement, or pleasure. 2. Enjoyment; amusement: have fun at the beach. 3. Playful, often noisy, activity. intr.v. funned, fun+ning, funs Informal To behave playfully; joke bored verb past tense and past participle of to bore adjective (more bored, most bored) suffering from boredom uninterested, without attention The piano teacher's look betrayed he wasn't paying much attention to his pupil's boringly stereotype rendition of the brilliantly composed etudes perforated by a hole or holes through bioerosion So by these definitions above, mining wouldnt fit into fun in any sense of the word. Though it does seem to fit relaxing and bored very well :) re+lax (r-lks) v. re+laxed, re+lax+ing, re+lax+es v.tr. 1. To make lax or loose: relax one's grip. 2. To make less severe or strict: relax a curfew. 3. To reduce in intensity; slacken: relax one's efforts. 4. To relieve from tension or strain: The warm bath relaxed me. v.intr. 1. To take one's ease; rest. 2. To become lax or loose. 3. To become less severe or strict. 4. To become less restrained or tense. Riley, you're just arguing semantics here for the most part. personally, I find mining to be both fun and relaxing. I'm sorry you cannot find it in yourself to experience fun any other way than "living on the edge" or somesuch but regardless of you there are many people in this game that do enjoy mining and find it fun or "fun" however you want to put it. Riley aside though, what about this... take away jump abilities (of course). take away half the compression lines, all the cap-ship abilities (IE: clone vat bay, ship maintenance hangar, etc.) and leave pretty much all the rest. that would seem a lot like a high-sec version. stripped down and dependent on surrounding facilities but still able to completely fulfill its support role in a secure environment. ----------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2008.01.15 09:49:00 - [147] Edited by: Matthew on 15/01/2008 09:49:51 Originally by: Riley Craven Because 1. Mining is never "fun" its a boring task, yet it also one of the easiest task to do in eve aside from setting up manufacturing jobs. Mining is most certainly boring the way most people do it, but that's because most people do it the lazy way. If you're actually mining properly to maximise your yields, there's plenty to do to keep you from getting bored, and it's no more repetitive than any other PvE activity. But a lot of people mine specifically because it's a more relaxed activity, and choose to take the more relaxed method. My experience is that group mining, with it's more relaxed atmosphere is more fun than group combat ops, which often boil down to following the leader like sheep and everyone sitting there in deathly silence so the FC can shout on TS when the 2 hour search finally uncovers a target. You feel differently. That's fine. Just don't discount the other side because it doesn't align with what you want from the game. Originally by: Riley Craven So that leads me to 2. Mining being easy has not devauled its role in the economy That is because the limiting factor on mining is not difficulty, it's time. Also, alternatives to mining require an alternative expenditure of effort or cost. Yes, you can get minerals from rat loot, but you still have to take the time to shoot the rats, you still have to get the stuff to a refinery to refine it, and you generally can't target your desired minerals as accurately as you can by picking which ore to mine. Yes, you can get minerals by buying up NPC goods and refining them. But unless the economy is messed up, this method will come at an increased cost over the market value, and you still have to haul if you need it somewhere the npc good isn't sold. At the end of the day, mining is still valued because there is no quick, easy way to replace it. The same applies to hauling the result of that mining to where you need it. There are alternatives to reduce hauling too. You could buy closer to where you need it, but you're likely to have to pay more for what you need. You can compress the ore to reduce the amount of hauling required, but that requires time and cost to do. Originally by: Riley Craven Now, what I was refering to in my arguement, that you seem to have misunderstood, is that compression in its current form is a real pita and most of the stuff I find on these forums about it suggest that its a real task and not many people like it. Instead I think the cap mining laser would have been a better idea instead of the manufacturing lanes we currently have. i.e. compression done right. Am I saying that the Cap mining laser idea in that form was the perfect idea? No, I am saying it would have been better than compression lanes. Well, this really depends on why they're currently finding it a pita. If it's because it takes a bit of time, and costs fuel to do, then I have no sympathy. If the process didn't incur costs, then it would devalue the hauling that it is replacing. If it's because the S&I interface is a lot of annoying clicks when you're running lots of different ore types in small jobs, then that I can sympathise with. I don't think a capital mining laser is the way to address it though, even if you added time or fuel use constraints. This is for the simple reason that whatever ship you give the ability to fit it will become a new "uber-miner" ship, a role we already have ships to fill. One of the intentions of the rorqual, (and of the orca as I understand the proposals) is to encourage group mining. Shifing compression back to individual mining ships with a compressing laser would break this. The problem of the rorqual click-fest is one that has been acknowledged by the devs in this forum, and they have said they're looking for a solution. There are several ways to "fix" the rorqual, so it's easier to use UI-wise, without breaking it's balance in terms of time/cost. That would be my favoured option.
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2008.01.15 09:51:00 - [148] Originally by: Riley Craven and 3. There should not be "boring" tasks in a computer ->GAME<- If something is boring it is no longer a game. One person's boring is another man's pleasant relaxing evening. One of Eve's strengths is that it caters to lots of different playstyles, and actively encourages them to work together to achieve goals. Originally by: Riley Craven fun (fn) n. 1. A source of enjoyment, amusement, or pleasure. Well, I find a nice relaxing evening to be enjoyable, mining is relaxing, therefore by your own argument, mining is fun That's the thing about enjoyment, pleasure, fun etc. It's completely subjective. Originally by: Xavier Iblis Not wanting ore-compression in high-sec makes little sense to me... "It's not needed since there are many stations around to haul to." So? Just because you're content to haul to station and refine doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to get my new shiny. A new ship should have a definite role, and abilities designed to fill that role. It's not about tacking on abilities to make a new shiny. If you want ore compression on the orca, show a case in high-sec where it would be genuinely useful, rather than just a "shiny". Originally by: Xavier Iblis The other bit is the freighter idea puts it out of reach of a lot of smaller corps. Scraping together 1bil for a big ship is one thing... Scraping together 2bil for 2 big ships is another. Frankly, if you're mining enough to justify an Orca in the group in the first place, you're mining enough to justify a freighter to haul to market. It is the high-end of mining, it's not supposed to be cheap or easy to get to. The orca as I propose would also still be effective if used without a freighter, just not as effective. A freighter-sized secure container that can tractor from anywhere in the belt and apply gang bonuses still sounds plenty useful to me, even if you're emptying it with haulers (who now only have one place to go instead of half a dozen cans spread across the belt). ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Tokuji Hayakawa	Posted - 2008.01.15 10:07:00 - [149] Edited by: Tokuji Hayakawa on 15/01/2008 10:13:07 Edited by: Tokuji Hayakawa on 15/01/2008 10:09:08 Originally by: Matthew Originally by: Tokuji Hayakawa Not to harp on here but without the ability to Reduce Ores,by either compression or refining,this ship will be worthless for Ice Mining. Its ok to talk in terms of normal ores but what of Ice,it should address all forms of mining,not just mineral ores. I still stand by letting it refine in space and allow frieghters to dock,no need for compression then. Putting ice refining ability on the ship would make it massively overpowered compared to the POS refining arrays, unless you significantly nerfed the refining yield, at which point it becomes an unattractive option and would be largely pointless. For high-sec, the situation is entirely the same as for ore - there's no point compressing the ice, because 99% of the time you'll only be hauling the ice direct from the belt to the station within the same system. Simply allowing the freighter to load up from the orca in-belt is a far more effective way of boosting this stage. For low-sec/0.0, any compression ability should be on the Rorqual, not the orca. We don't need an entirely new ship just for ice. And again, if you want to be able to compress the refined ice products for further transport, that can be handled in normal manufacturing facilities (either station or POS based), there's no need for it to happen in the belt. No it won't There are no POS refining arrays in high sec,and you get 100% yield from low/0.0 sec POs's anyway,so I fail to see how this can be massively overpowered. If what you mean are the taxes paid to the Station refineries in high sec,well that is simply solved by paying your taxes to the O.R.E,sydicate,instead. It makes no real difference to which NPC faction you pay your taxes as they are just Isk Sinks. Every pilot I have spoken to that mines Ice has a perfect refine at the station,this is some 20+ pilots. If you are serious about mining ice on a frequent basis you almost have to do this. But to respond to your post,an Orca's refine rate can be tied to the Refining skills tree,as it is for station refining. So Refining can be solved,paying the relevant taxes to NPC's can be solved. Frieghters,yes they are good for picking up ore but not Ice Ore,if you have mined Ice in any decent sized gang you would know the problem miners have with the size of the unrefined blocks. A freighter is simply insufficient to haul Ice Blocks,Indys are better,for gangs. The Orca needs some way to reduce Ice ore for hauling,wether by Compression or refining. Resonally as i've said before I prefer refining just becasue CCP dont seem to want compression in high sec. (Oh and please don't misinterpret and misrepresent my posts,I want the Orca for all kinds of high sec mining,it just so happens I mine ice and my problems lie with that).
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2008.01.15 10:48:00 - [150] Originally by: Tokuji Hayakawa There are no POS refining arrays in high sec,and you get 100% yield from low/0.0 sec POs's anyway,so I fail to see how this can be massively overpowered. ok, lets put it another way. It's going to have to be overpowered if it's going to be used. Originally by: Tokuji Hayakawa If what you mean are the taxes paid to the Station refineries in high sec,well that is simply solved by paying your taxes to the O.R.E,sydicate,instead. It makes no real difference to which NPC faction you pay your taxes as they are just Isk Sinks. Well, apart from the fact that refinery taxes are stuff sinks, not isk sinks, who you pay the tax to does matter. It's why any decent refiner will have 6.67 standings to the corp (note it's corp standings that count, not faction standings) owning the station he refines in. Getting standings with ORE is basically a non-starter unless you're the alliance in control of Outer Ring, which instantly makes any ORE-taxed location a non-preferred option. Originally by: Tokuji Hayakawa But to respond to your post,an Orca's refine rate can be tied to the Refining skills tree,as it is for station refining. Yes, it can. But where do you set the balance? How much does it cost to run a refining cycle, and how long does it take? Where is the gap these ships can fit into? If you make the refining yield in the ship any less than in the station, then the loss will likely make it more efficient to haul to the station in high-sec. If you make the refining yield match the station (i.e. 100% for skilled char), then it's in direct competition with the POS refining array in terms of mobile refining resources. If you make the refining instant, it's overpowered compared to the refining arrays which take time. But if you make it take time, that pilot time may as well have been spent in normal hauling/mining while the refinery array is churning. I can't see a big enough gap in current refining provision to justify a new ship to fill it. Originally by: Tokuji Hayakawa Frieghters,yes they are good for picking up ore but not Ice Ore,if you have mined Ice in any decent sized gang you would know the problem miners have with the size of the unrefined blocks. A freighter is simply insufficient to haul Ice Blocks,Indys are better,for gangs. A ship with 750k+ m3 of cargo space is worse for hauling large blocks than a ship with up to approx 35k m3? Surely the larger cargo would help with the large size of the blocks, as you would waste less space with the "not quite enough space for the last block" problem. Also the ability to consolidate (remember the nice big tractor beams) the output from your individual miners into one giant hold would help to manage these blocks. Yes, a freighter is slower than an indy. But it can still shift vastly more m3 per player hour than any industrial ship. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Evitcidda	Posted - 2008.01.15 11:13:00 - [151] Originally by: Xaildaine Seriously... An empire mining cap ship seams a bit extreem. All we want is Larger anchorable cans and somewhere we can anchor them.. Is that so hard? This
Vlad Dakovnovich	Posted - 2008.01.15 15:31:00 - [152] This is a capital ship after all (we think anyway). It deserves really to be either a similar size to a freighter with some high slots for tractor beams etc. (no turrets or launcher slots). The skills needed to fly this will far exceed that of a freighter. Or to have some form of compression and a more modest cargo bay still several times larger than an industrial. This way it allows it to remain on station collecting ore / ice from the miners giving bonuses without the need to dock every few minutes or have another dedicated hauler. Personally i prefer the large ship size instead of compression. If need be make industrial 5 a prequisite as well as mining barge 5 so that it doesn't replace the freighter as a hauling ship of choice, double the skill requirements should be enough. Also i would not be unhappy if it had some form of uber mining drones or the ability to fit a couple of strip miners / ice harvesters. Not so that it out mines a hulk but just something to do while waiting for cans to fill up. In my eyes this should be a mining support ship for small groups of say 4-6 any more people and you might as well go the whole hog and get a rorqual and mine in low-sec.
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2008.01.15 15:42:00 - [153] Originally by: Vlad Dakovnovich Also i would not be unhappy if it had some form of uber mining drones or the ability to fit a couple of strip miners / ice harvesters. Not so that it out mines a hulk but just something to do while waiting for cans to fill up. If you want to give it something to do, I would suggest giving it a nice range bonus to survey scanners, and add general tools to the fleet system to broadcast mining instructions to the rest of the gang e.g. select pilot/squad/wing/fleet in the gang window, select roid in the survey scanner window and press the "mine this roid" button sends a gang broadcast to that pilot/whatever to mine this roid. You could have other commands like "stop this roid after current cycle", "stop this roid now" etc. Or other similar functionality that allows the Orca to efficiently manage the mining of it's fleet. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.01.15 16:22:00 - [154] cluttering up the already uselessly cluttered gang broadcast window is not my idea of a good idea. If anyone uses a Rorqual, they're gonna be on voice chat, because they're going to want to know what their scouts are seeing as it happens. Granted not so important in high-sec - but again, any fleet that can afford and field a gang that is going to utilize something of this cost will be on voice-comms as it is and the fleet broadcasts, outside of calling cynos, is largely done better outside the game. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Arron S Gallente Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2008.01.15 16:29:00 - [155] I smell another high sec hualer. Will it be able to tank Suicide gankers? If it can't its useless to me.
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2008.01.15 16:36:00 - [156] Originally by: Pwett cluttering up the already uselessly cluttered gang broadcast window is not my idea of a good idea. If anyone uses a Rorqual, they're gonna be on voice chat, because they're going to want to know what their scouts are seeing as it happens. Granted not so important in high-sec - but again, any fleet that can afford and field a gang that is going to utilize something of this cost will be on voice-comms as it is and the fleet broadcasts, outside of calling cynos, is largely done better outside the game. And how exactly are you going to point people to specific roids via voice chat? I can see that going well: "Yeah, it's that veldspar roid to your right. No, not that one, the next one over. No, the next one over the other way. Oh FFS, I'll tag it for you in-game." Tagging roids is one of the times the in-game fleet comms can excel, simply because the targets do not have unique public names that you can call out over voice. Yes, it may need some more UI thought than just tagging a pile of extra buttons onto the broadcast bar, but there are ways to do it elegantly. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.01.15 19:08:00 - [157] I don't know about you, but our guys just spread out in groups of two or three, 22 kms apart. That way there is no overlap and every ark is covered. Don't even bother telling them which roids to mine. They're smart, they can figure it out. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2008.01.16 09:42:00 - [158] Originally by: Pwett I don't know about you, but our guys just spread out in groups of two or three, 22 kms apart. That way there is no overlap and every ark is covered. Don't even bother telling them which roids to mine. They're smart, they can figure it out. That's fine up to a certain group size, it's easy to call general rules that avoid overlap. But if you go beyond that, it becomes very hard to co-ordinate for no overlap unless there's someone with an overview of the belt status calling the shots. At the moment larger mining groups tend to compensate for this by spreading out into more than one belt at a time. However, use of my orca proposal, or any compressing ship when used in a belt as intended, would be optimal when all your mining capacity is in a single belt, assuming you had a way of avoiding excessive cycle wastage due to the high density of miners present. Some form of centralised target management is the only feasible way of doing this. For the orca as I envisage it, the optimal group would have 1 orca, and as many miners and haulers as it takes to clear the belt within one deployment cycle (as getting it done faster than this is pointless because the orca couldn't keep up with the rest of the group as it moved to other belts). For the rorqual it would be as many miners as can keep all it's compression lines running at capacity. Admittedly at this sort of group-size, the single orca pilot is unlikely to be able to keep up with the target broadcasts required. Some way of delegating this to squad commanders while still keeping the orca pilot in overall command would be needed. Which really boils down to the ability to share survey scan results down the fleet heirarchy, and have some way of telling which are assigned and which are free. Of course, broadcasting the full survey scan results to every member of the fleet is likely to be a load nightmare. So we take the principle of segregation seen in other aspects of fleet management to do it. The fleet commander would be able to see the full scan results, and could assign roids to a wing, squad or individual (assigning directly to a lower level automatically assigns it to the squad/wing that individual is under). The wing commander could see the scan results for everything assigned to their wing, squad commanders everything assigned to their squad, and squad members just what they have been personally assigned. Yes, this would be more load than the one survey scan, but it would be a lot less load than every miner running his own independant survey scan (which is the alternative). The fleet commander would also be able to "unlock" the roid states, allowing the specified tier of command to self-claim unclaimed roids, or roids assigned to their next level up, via the overview (already claimed roids would be indicated as such via the existing "Tag" column on the overview). In this way a fleet can place each squad (or wing if necessary) 22km apart, the squad/wing commanders claim everything within their range bubble and farm the targets out to their squad/wing members, or have the members just claim from the unclaimed pool for their squad/wing directly. Each individual squad member gets the survey results for the roids they're assigned to so they can manage their cycles individually to avoid roid-popping losses. Wing and fleet commanders then have an overview of the situation and can pick up on any leftovers, and manage other inter-squad/wing issues as they arise. Admittedly, this would be a far more complex change than just adding in a new ship, and personally I doubt we'll see something like this in-game anytime soon. But if we're trying to encourage group mining with these ships, then the tools available to manage the group need to be up to scratch, or the groups will be limited by the management, regardless of how the ship is balanced. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
gordon861 Minmatar PROGENITOR CORPORATION Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.01.16 11:55:00 - [159] With a full bonus Command Ship pilot on a mining op you need to actually stay 44km apart not 22km to avoid overlap as the lasers will cover anything within 22km. The way we've found best to do corp mining ops(in highsec) is for the Hulks all to pick a belt each to mine and then solo the belt(a Hulk with Strip 2s and crystals can clear a belt in about 4-5 hrs normally). The miners that can't defend themselves against rats solo either gang up or work in the same belt as the Command Ship. All the miners let the haulers know when they have a full load for them and they come and do a pickup. The way I'd envisaged the Orca working would be to be able to anchor/seige mode in a spot in a system and act like a temporary station/hanger. Whilst anchored it could operate the ganglinks and tractor beams(same bonuses as a Marauder), it would also allow a freighter to dock with it to transfer ore back to a station. The ops would run similar to above but the haulers could either transfer the ore to the Orca hanger or just jetison it within 40km head back for the next load. This would allow corps to make use of systems where there is no station to mine from. Give the ship a 2-4k m3 cargo hold for carrying spare crystals, and make the deployable hanger 1mil m3 in space(once deployed the ship become immobile). You'd need 3 highs for the mining ganglinks, 3/4 for tractor beams and maybe a couple of weapon slots(or it could just deploy drones for self defense). Also 3-4 mids/lows to allow you to fit some sort of tank. Originally by: CCP Arkanon I frown on employees being power players to the extent that their gameplay results in any sort of domination over others. I donÆt believe CCP employees should run the EVE universe.
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.01.16 15:56:00 - [160] You know what I meant about the overlap, Now Matthew, I admit I kinda like what you're saying, but lets get rid of the broadcast paradigm for a sec. Something that would really benefit, not only miners, but all Fleets, would be to take that broadcast system and convert it into a overview filtering system that the FC designates and gets propagated down the wing / squad hierarchy. Because, again, when you get substantial groups of miners going, you're popping roids every cycle or two, and I highly doubt the orca pilot is going to want to be in a mad dash to outclick his miners. :) But if they can take a survey scanned filter of the overview and transmit that to their miners, I think that would still give them a useful intelligence bonus, while not turning their miners into mindless automatons. We have to remember not to let our miners know they're slaves! _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Aarin Wrath	Posted - 2008.01.16 19:17:00 - [161] Originally by: gordon861 Give the ship a 2-4k m3 cargo hold for carrying spare crystals Very good idea. It sounds silly but mining crystals are actually pretty large in m3 terms, especially if you have a few extras for each ore type. So having a bay to hold spares for all the miners would be an excellent feature. Especially if the miners use T2 crystals as they seem to break fairly often. I would like to bring back up a point I mentioned earlier in this thread (Page 2) for those who are against high sec ore compression: Originally by: Aarin Wrath Notes: 1. Why allow ore compression? it would allow large gangs of barges to be supported by one hauler, instead of a fleet of them. As it stands, 3 hulks can make a single haulers life pretty tiring. With compression one hauler could handle the incoming ore of several hulks. It could be a limited form of compression, perhaps a much slower compression rate than a Roqual (50%) but it still would be very helpful. This will also facilitate mining in high sec systems where no stations exists, and also make lowsec mining abit more ... reasonable. If the orca has no ore compression, it will be no more useful than a command ship. Ore compression is important, useful, and needed even in high sec. A large hulk gang needs a significant amount of logistics to bring the ore to a station, even an in system station. Reducing the amount of required haulers would be a huge feature.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.01.16 22:06:00 - [162] I'll only agree to this Orca if it can't be used by npc corps
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2008.01.17 09:06:00 - [163] Originally by: Pwett Now Matthew, I admit I kinda like what you're saying, but lets get rid of the broadcast paradigm for a sec. Something that would really benefit, not only miners, but all Fleets, would be to take that broadcast system and convert it into a overview filtering system that the FC designates and gets propagated down the wing / squad hierarchy. Agreed, better integration of the fleet and overview systems would be good for all fleet users. It would also be good if you could select multiple items on the overview, and apply a gang status to all of them at once. Originally by: Pwett Because, again, when you get substantial groups of miners going, you're popping roids every cycle or two, and I highly doubt the orca pilot is going to want to be in a mad dash to outclick his miners. :) True, hence my suggestion in my second post on this issue that squad members could be allowed to claim unassigned roids independantly of the commanders (though commanders would be able to override or lock this out if they wished). As you say, the miners can think for themselves, all that's really needed is some way to consolidate what all of them are thinking into one simple overview to avoid overlap. Originally by: Aarin Wrath If the orca has no ore compression, it will be no more useful than a command ship. Ore compression is important, useful, and needed even in high sec. A large hulk gang needs a significant amount of logistics to bring the ore to a station, even an in system station. Reducing the amount of required haulers would be a huge feature. Well, replacing half a dozen industrials with one freighter reduces the amount of required haulers as well. The problem with improving hauling via compression is that compression gives advantage beyond the belt->station segment you're aiming at improving - as can be seen by how keen 0.0 residents are on any form of compression, even if that means having to refine the stuff out in 0.0. Therefore, the time and cost of any compression needs to be balanced with this expanded advantage, which is likely to result in it being either too slow, or too expensive, to be desirable for the typical high-sec situation where the refinery is in the same system. Actually, lets throw that question out to the people who can currently act out that situation: Are there any 0.0 residents that bother to compress using the rorqual when mining in the same system as they intend to refine the ore in? The only reason to want ore compression in high-sec would be to enhance other parts of the pathway. And I've already argued why mineral, rather than ore compression is more appropriate for that, and why there is no need for mineral compression ability to be ship-based. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Aarin Wrath	Posted - 2008.01.17 15:26:00 - [164] Edited by: Aarin Wrath on 17/01/2008 15:27:30 Originally by: Marcus TheMartin I'll only agree to this Orca if it can't be used by npc corps I see what you are worried about, and are trying to accomplish, but restricting the Orca to only NPC corps will in all honesty accomplish nothing. It will only create a heck of alot of grief for CCP in the form of petitions and unnecessary coding woes, and marginalize legitimate NPC corp members. 1. It would be very difficult to code "only for non NPC use" into EVE. It's not the restriction that makes it problematic, its the whole can of worms that such code would open. eg. if a legitimate player is flying one and gets kicked from a PC corp ... what happens then??? 2. Macro miners would just form small PC corps and use it. Now your thinking, "well yeah thats what I want so I can wardec them duh!", well sorry but macro miners are not stupid. They will just collapse and form a new corp. Some extremism to exemplify why ccp should not do this: I would also point out that if you were to go along this line of thinking, why stop at the orca. Why not freighters? why not Industrials, heck ... might as well restrict NPC corp members to noob ships only! That will fix those macro miners! It's a slippry slope.
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.01.17 16:21:00 - [165] Originally by: Matthew Actually, lets throw that question out to the people who can currently act out that situation: Are there any 0.0 residents that bother to compress using the rorqual when mining in the same system as they intend to refine the ore in? No, because refining Arkonor provides better compression than ... compressing it. for station mining ops the Rorqual simply replaces the POS-docked Eos we used to use. Not the case with low-ends. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Aarin Wrath	Posted - 2008.01.17 18:38:00 - [166] Originally by: Matthew Well, replacing half a dozen industrials with one freighter reduces the amount of required haulers as well. Very true. Unfortunately current game mechanics do not allow freighters to do that so I would say that point is rather moot. Originally by: Matthew The problem with improving hauling via compression is that compression gives advantage beyond the belt->station segment you're aiming at improving Could you elaborate on what advantage that is? I don't see what you are getting at. Originally by: Matthew Therefore, the time and cost of any compression needs to be balanced with this expanded advantage, which is likely to result in it being either too slow, or too expensive, to be desirable for the typical high-sec situation where the refinery is in the same system. I did state that the compression of the Orca could be a lesser form of that for the Roqual. Maybe 1/2 as fast perhaps some other form of limitation. Originally by: Matthew The only reason to want ore compression in high-sec would be to enhance other parts of the pathway. And I've already argued why mineral, rather than ore compression is more appropriate for that, and why there is no need for mineral compression ability to be ship-based. Hmmm a very interesting point. Mineral compression would alleviate a lot of the logistical problems of moving trit (for example) out to 0.0 for capital construction. I am not certain why CCP went with the ORE compression route instead of mineral compression.
gordon861 Minmatar PROGENITOR CORPORATION Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.01.18 11:51:00 - [167] Originally by: Aarin Wrath Originally by: Matthew Well, replacing half a dozen industrials with one freighter reduces the amount of required haulers as well. Very true. Unfortunately current game mechanics do not allow freighters to do that so I would say that point is rather moot. The solution to the freighter issue is to give the Orca a Ship Hanger that can only be accessed when in industrial mode. Originally by: CCP Arkanon I frown on employees being power players to the extent that their gameplay results in any sort of domination over others. I donÆt believe CCP employees should run the EVE universe.
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2008.01.18 12:59:00 - [168] Originally by: Aarin Wrath Originally by: Matthew Well, replacing half a dozen industrials with one freighter reduces the amount of required haulers as well. Very true. Unfortunately current game mechanics do not allow freighters to do that so I would say that point is rather moot. Read my suggestion near the start of the thread. It specifically allows for the Orca to have a "deployed" mode where it gets cargo the size of a freighter, and the ability to enable freighter transactions within a short range of it. This freighter-enabling mechanism is already used around POS control towers, so it should be able to be applied here too. Originally by: Aarin Wrath Originally by: Matthew The problem with improving hauling via compression is that compression gives advantage beyond the belt->station segment you're aiming at improving Could you elaborate on what advantage that is? I don't see what you are getting at. Low-end ores are shrunk a lot more by compression than by refining them. For example, Compressed Veldspar Once you have, for example, Compressed Veldspar has a volume of 417m3, and refines into 500k veldspar, resulting in 0.000834m3 per unit of trit, compared to trit's volume of 0.01m3. It's more efficient to keep it as Compressed Veldspar until you get it to where you want to finally use it. So compressing it doesn't just improve belt->station, it improves station->market, market->final use as well. This is why a lot of the 0.0 people are so keen on high-sec compression, because it would be more efficient to haul the compressed ores out to 0.0 space than it would be to haul the refined minerals. Originally by: Aarin Wrath I did state that the compression of the Orca could be a lesser form of that for the Roqual. Maybe 1/2 as fast perhaps some other form of limitation. The trouble is that the effectiveness of compression in the belt->station segment is directly proportional to the distance from the belt to the station. This distance will typically be much, much shorter in high-sec space compared to low-sec or 0.0. Consequently, high-sec compression would actually have to be better in order to be a viable option. Which would then need the Rorqual to be lifted to the same level to avoid the Orca replacing it. Originally by: Aarin Wrath Hmmm a very interesting point. Mineral compression would alleviate a lot of the logistical problems of moving trit (for example) out to 0.0 for capital construction. I am not certain why CCP went with the ORE compression route instead of mineral compression. Probably because they didn't intend the compression to be used for the other parts of the pathway. Ore compression is specifically useful in enhancing the belt->station segment because at that stage, you only have ore to work with. I've described earlier in the thread why refining in-belt would be overpowered compared to the other refining options, so that really only leaves ore compression as a viable option for that stage. My suspicion is that they didn't put mineral compression in straight away because the existence of truly ridiculous compression ratios in some of the old modules had distorted things too much to gauge what the true need for it was, and what would be a balanced compression ratio. There was also the effects of the carrier nerf and the introduction of jump freighters to consider. Making too many changes at once is a recipe for an imbalanced system. I'm hopeful that as the consequences of those changes play themselves out, we'll get a balanced mineral compression system coming through. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Tokuji Hayakawa	Posted - 2008.01.18 13:27:00 - [169]
Tokuji Hayakawa	Posted - 2008.01.18 16:43:00 - [170] cont. personally I wouldn't want to see a freighter bouncing around hauling like an Indy. I would expect a Ferighter to be docking evey few hours not 30-40 mins for large ops.
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.01.18 19:16:00 - [171] Hauling with a freighter is all well and good, until you manage to warp that freighter into the orca, and the freighter zooms off at 80 km/s. Having done that at a low-sec gate, would anyone else hazard a guess on how long it would take that freighter to stop? _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Deathtrain	Posted - 2008.01.19 01:46:00 - [172] I would like to see: compression hard points for command mod's and a point for regular traking beam and salvage(no weapons) cargo dont make it as big as a freighter but still big. none of the bays like the Roq has. or have no cargo hold and compress the ore and **** out a high compressed ore that a hauler can take back to station.
Tokuji Hayakawa	Posted - 2008.01.19 09:06:00 - [173] Originally by: Pwett Hauling with a freighter is all well and good, until you manage to warp that freighter into the orca, and the freighter zooms off at 80 km/s. Having done that at a low-sec gate, would anyone else hazard a guess on how long it would take that freighter to stop? Right Click Warp to Within tab in overview "Set Default Warp to distance" to 7500m and your good to go.
shady trader	Posted - 2008.01.20 20:00:00 - [174] I have been doing a few mining missions as well as a lot of mining in general in high sec. The big problem with doing a mining mission /mining op is moving ships and minerals to your target system quickly and easliy. In mining missions you need to move 2 ships, the mining vessels and a hauler. As a result I think the Orca needs the following items to meet the needs of my small corps mining ops: 1) Mining related gang links, of cause. 2) The ability to transport a couple of assembed hulks and other small ships (scouts/light defence), via possibly percentage size reducition on barges so its no replacement for carriers transporting ships. This way relocating to another system from base station. 3) reasonable cargo hold say 20K and a second hanger for the ore with a bonus (say give it big % reduction in ore size while in the hold) to make it only useful for ore. The main cargo hold will be for crystals and any loot. This way its usefull for mining but not a replacement for a freighter. 4) A reasonable size (400m3) sized drone bay for defence. With the bandwith for say 5 heavy drones. Give it bonuses like its big brother, on tracker beam and scanning range. Macrointel, the place were the nature order of the universe does not hold sway. Pirates and ore thief's are congrated by carebears for the actions.
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2008.01.21 08:52:00 - [175] Originally by: Pwett Hauling with a freighter is all well and good, until you manage to warp that freighter into the orca, and the freighter zooms off at 80 km/s. Having done that at a low-sec gate, would anyone else hazard a guess on how long it would take that freighter to stop? That would indeed be unfortunate. Though a slight bonus to cargo transfer range on the Orca, and use of a more conservative warp-to option should fix that easily. With the bonus-ed tractor beams, you should be able to put the Orca far enough out that the roids and your barges are not a navigational hazard. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Nekrininja	Posted - 2008.01.21 21:15:00 - [176] i just want to comment. those of you questioning the need for empire based mining command ship. i have a rorqual but i have corp mates not yet suited for 0.0 and it is nice to have to help them on small ops once in awhile especially when ive just clone jumped to do some learning for a couple days.
Seimor Jeneet Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.21 22:00:00 - [177] I think the "Orca" should be able to deploy a Templar, an amarrian fighter drone, used by carriers -- Dying while afk to rats since 2006
Ford Hakata Hakata Group	Posted - 2008.01.21 22:39:00 - [178] Edited by: Ford Hakata on 21/01/2008 22:43:51 The only way an Orca (or the Rorqual for that matter) could be made really interesting, is if they in their deployed mode actually functioned like a POS, with the ability to anchor a few POS modules nearby, and with a bubble to protect friendly pilots and property. It's fine if "anchoring" that ship is only possible at moons or at the center of asteroid belts, and that the anchoring is only possible for a few hours max (eg. because of fuel constraints, or whatever.) Just making a "Mining capital ship" like this in order to get people to "mine together in gangs", isn't very creative. Neither is "ore compression" or making clone bays more "accessible" while they are broken anyway. And more mining bonuses? Meh. A small gang of hulks plus a mining director w/implant can already strip a belt clean in a few hours. CCP, make the Rorqual and Orca into movable POSes! That would actually add new aspects to the game, instead of just "inflate" existing game mechanics. Haven't we had enough inflation when it comes to mining? Only new thing lately there is the gas harvesting, but that's hardly something a captital industrial ship should be useful for. No more tweaking, please. Let's have a revolution. --
Balcura	Posted - 2008.01.22 02:12:00 - [179] I like the idea about having a 1mil m3 cargo hold while deployed, gang mods and tractor beams are also great. As far as the NPC corps using anything like this I have to say that is a bad idea. Easiest way to avoid that problem is to make the deployed orca a corp hangar of 1mil m3. As members in an NPC corp they do not have access to corp hangars or other "corp" only aspects of the game. That should solve that issue. Other then that I would love to see a capital with a 6/4/4 slot layout, bonuses to shield transfer, capital tractors and mining gang modules. 300m3 drone bay for defense with enough grid/cpu for minimal capital tanking. There are 2 main concerns that people have: 1) we need a way to get stuff (low ends) to 0.0 2) we need a mining utility ship that allows more miners and requires less haulers. As long as it fills those basic needs it would be a great advance in ships... the Rorqual should also be looked at to see if it fills the role as it was intended. CCP may also want to make the compressions BPO's able to function in std manufacturing slots taking 2-5 times as long as in the Rorqual.
Roth	Posted - 2008.01.22 08:08:00 - [180] Orca? Ok, my 2 cents... Command link bonuses x 1.5 (all command links, not just mining related) 500pct armor and shield transfer range per level 50pct reduction in armor/shield transfer capacitor use 75pct reduction in Remote shield repair pg usage per lvl 99pct reduction in ore compression module cpu usage. 10pct reduction in compression module cycle time per ore compression skill level. 10pct per level drone hip and dmg 50 megabytes bandwith, 675m3 drone bay, can launch and assign drones to gang members for 98 pct reduction in bandwidth per assigned drone. Jump capable, 2 ly range 200pct tractorbeam speed and range. No innate compression.... (but see below) 60k m3 cargohold. t2 resistances w/ bonuses per exhumer skill levels 8k shield 6k armor 22k hull 2 riggings slots. 4 highslots (2 launcher hardpoints) 3 med slots 4 low slots 500capacitor/500 second recharge new module Ore compressor I Fitting, Low Powergrid, 1 CPU 16000 Activation Cost 30 Duration 60/sec Note: this module was designed by Creodron INC. to simulate the compression of minerals that have been finding there way into empire space. Penalty : 100pct reduction in speed and 100pct reduction in agility while active there, can either compress ores or haul, can't do both like the rorqual, requires new skills, so ccp can keep ya all playing for another month, is decent for small or large support in hostile areas, but doesn't have the powergrid to fit capital sized modules and seriously unbalance gang warfare if misused. Would be bout like a battleship sized industrial ship
Roth	Posted - 2008.01.22 09:00:00 - [181] Also... 4 additional drones per advanced interfacing skill level... my 2 cents worth is meant to be a fabulously mediocre mining foreman's dream come true. It doesn't do anything unbalancingly well but quells the unhappy masses of people screaming for new content! it has to handle like a slug or else flying an industrial will become obsolete. it can help gang, but is kinda useless on it's own... inline with the rorq, has a few little bonuses that the rorq doesn't have but has much greater limitations with cpu and powergrid to nulify any real strength.... I hope the idea expands thought in this forum rather than getting picked apart one line at a time. It's easy to find fault with me, I'm just a self proclaimed idiot, so before ya pick it apart one line at a time put as much thought into it as I did... took me weeks to put together the above ideas. IMHO Being able to have ships dock to you is a capital thing that shouldn't be touched in empire. (balance)
Mara Rinn Minmatar	Posted - 2008.01.27 06:27:00 - [182] My wish list for a hisec mining platform would be: Gang boost bonuses Huge cargo hold Bonuses to scanners Bonuses to remote shield repairers Bonuses to range/power of scramblers and webifiers Fast targetting time The main risks in hisec space are can poppers. We can't attack them when they arrive, only when they steal from our cans. Thus the platform should either be able to deal with this threat through jammers and scramblers with very fast targetting itself, or the mining platform should provide target acquisition bonuses to all craft in the fleet. In order to help rookie pilots take part in fleet activities, it would also be nice for the platform to provide the means to support pilots in mining frigates who are not geared for fending off 0.5 rats. Bonuses to the range of remote shield repairers (as per the Osprey, for example) would be most welcome. Also, it would be nice to add some features to make the Orca attractive to losec operations too. Perhaps give it survey/scanner/probe bonuses - have the orca function like an exploration rig in real life oil mining. It can be part of an advance survey party (perhaps the orca provides bonuses to the ships doing the survey, rather than doing surveying itself). We wouldn't need compression since we just haul junk out in industrials anyway. I don't see that limiting ownership of these kinds of vessels to player corporations will prevent macrominers from using them. They'd just set up their own corporation, or work through someone else's corporation. Anything a "legitimate" player can do, an ISK seller can do too. To me, the role of a mining support platform would be to boost the abilities of the mining foreman, provide support for rookie players, and provide some utility to losec mining operations that a rorqual doesn't.
Madness0906	Posted - 2008.01.29 15:40:00 - [183] My wishes would be: 1. Mining bonus with mining link and link mods to stack up to 33%. 2. Small compressor 1:10/20 for high sec ores and 1:2/5 for low sec. 3. Tractor beams that span the belt. 4. No motion possible during compressing. 5. Corp hanger. 40.000m3 6. 100.000m3 cargo hold. 7. Scanning mod that displays a map of the belt and indicates with coloring density and ore types, with added chart telling the opperator the amount of each ore. (it would be nice to make a small scout that can use this mod aswell.) I calculated a fleet of 10 perfect hulks (no drones) gets to 15470 m3/min and with the bonus to 20575 m3/min. At a compression rate of 1:10 would result in a hauling load of 2057.5 m3/min, with these lower rates less experienced members can haul and the more experienced players can stay in there mining ships. The 33% mining bonus makes it more then suited for beginning industrial corps with 3/5 hulks, and a great asset to corps with +5 hulks. This tool would make the life of a high sec carebear corp ceo a lot less complicated and would give these players a chance to use tools that where only available to massive low sec/0.0 corps.
Garat Mant Minmatar Moons of Pluto	Posted - 2008.01.30 01:41:00 - [184] My corp and I have discussed this, and our demands are simple: Make a 4th exhumer, a mining command hulk. With an extra high slot and the ability to fit (and bonus) a command link. Easy! -G -- CEO, Moons Of Pluto industrial corporation. Recruiting mature players!
Phersephone Caldari Mutually Assured Destruction Angels Of Discord	Posted - 2008.01.30 08:38:00 - [185] Is this still just a wish list or are we actually getting and orca?
Darth Felin	Posted - 2008.01.30 10:14:00 - [186] Originally by: Phersephone Is this still just a wish list or are we actually getting and orca? Devs stated that Orca is currently under development, so we will get Orca and at the same time it is the wishlist for its capabilities.
Gaogan Gallente Solar Storm Sev3rance	Posted - 2008.01.30 22:27:00 - [187] Originally by: Madness0906 My wishes would be: 1. Mining bonus with mining link and link mods to stack up to 33%. 2. Small compressor 1:10/20 for high sec ores and 1:2/5 for low sec. 3. Tractor beams that span the belt. 4. No motion possible during compressing. 5. Corp hanger. 40.000m3 6. 100.000m3 cargo hold. 7. Scanning mod that displays a map of the belt and indicates with coloring density and ore types, with added chart telling the opperator the amount of each ore. (it would be nice to make a small scout that can use this mod aswell.) I calculated a fleet of 10 perfect hulks (no drones) gets to 15470 m3/min and with the bonus to 20575 m3/min. At a compression rate of 1:10 would result in a hauling load of 2057.5 m3/min, with these lower rates less experienced members can haul and the more experienced players can stay in there mining ships. The 33% mining bonus makes it more then suited for beginning industrial corps with 3/5 hulks, and a great asset to corps with +5 hulks. This tool would make the life of a high sec carebear corp ceo a lot less complicated and would give these players a chance to use tools that where only available to massive low sec/0.0 corps. Are you brain damaged? Those stats are BETTER than a rorqual.
xena zena Dragons Of Redemption Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.01 18:05:00 - [188] two ships instead of 1 1: ORE faction command ship, 3% bonus to mining links, has same skill requirements as other command ships, except instead of cruiser V it requires mining barge V. 2: ORE faction capital ship non-jump drive capable (like freighters) that is a purely compression boat. Freighter with compression lines essentially. Similar mass, to a freighter, similar cargo capacity to a jump freighter. Similar cost and skill requirements to a rorqual. Can fit capital tractors and has the range bonuses of a rorqual. No command link bonuses or ability to use command links. _________________________
Zirconium Blade	Posted - 2008.02.01 20:03:00 - [189] I would like to see (in order of importance: Tractor Range and Speed bonus (3x would be nice) Reasonable mining bonus. Two or three can's worth of cargo hold I dont mind if it aligns and warps slowly and has very limited defense.
Mei Jinn	Posted - 2008.02.05 19:54:00 - [190] I would personally like to see a new O.R.E generation of Tactical mining Warfare links,mainly shield recharge and shield capacity but it could be stretched to armor and hull,for use solely on the Orca and Rorqual. Currently T2 barges are a joke in terms of tank,adding shield cap and recharge bonuses would be a good step in the right direction,of buffing mining ops. Also more high slots and Shield transfer ability wouldn't hurt as well.
Atiana Obaani Kanpuu Celestial Imperative	Posted - 2008.02.06 00:54:00 - [191] Originally by: xena zena two ships instead of 1 1: ORE faction command ship, 3% bonus to mining links, has same skill requirements as other command ships, except instead of cruiser V it requires mining barge V. 2: ORE faction capital ship non-jump drive capable (like freighters) that is a purely compression boat. Freighter with compression lines essentially. Similar mass, to a freighter, similar cargo capacity to a jump freighter. Similar cost and skill requirements to a rorqual. Can fit capital tractors and has the range bonuses of a rorqual. No command link bonuses or ability to use command links. This. Especially #1. LOOOOONG overdue.
gordon861 Minmatar PROGENITOR CORPORATION Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.02.06 12:31:00 - [192] Originally by: Mei Jinn I would personally like to see a new O.R.E generation of Tactical mining Warfare links,mainly shield recharge and shield capacity but it could be stretched to armor and hull,for use solely on the Orca and Rorqual. Currently T2 barges are a joke in terms of tank,adding shield cap and recharge bonuses would be a good step in the right direction,of buffing mining ops. Also more high slots and Shield transfer ability wouldn't hurt as well. If your T2 barges are being shot at on a mining op, and need these links, you are doing something wrong. If your Hulks can't tank the rats drop a Battleship in there first to take the aggro and then your barges and haulers will all be safe for ever. In empire your drones should be able to kill any rats before they become a worry to your miners. Originally by: CCP Arkanon I frown on employees being power players to the extent that their gameplay results in any sort of domination over others. I donÆt believe CCP employees should run the EVE universe.
Dr Remould	Posted - 2008.02.07 13:21:00 - [193] My wish list... 200,000 to 300,000 cargo 2 high slots (no turrets or missiles) bonus for small tractorbeams (25km-30km) mining foreman bonus ore scanner bonus moves as slowly as a slow thing with a hang-over (20m/s?) looks like Battersy Powerstation (smoking chimney stacks etc) I think this would serve as a half way ship between Rorqual and Hulk, kind of a Freighter meets Hulk. Cost around 600-700million ISK otherwise may as well get a freighter....
Mei Jinn	Posted - 2008.02.07 14:55:00 - [194] Originally by: gordon861 Originally by: Mei Jinn I would personally like to see a new O.R.E generation of Tactical mining Warfare links,mainly shield recharge and shield capacity but it could be stretched to armor and hull,for use solely on the Orca and Rorqual. Currently T2 barges are a joke in terms of tank,adding shield cap and recharge bonuses would be a good step in the right direction,of buffing mining ops. Also more high slots and Shield transfer ability wouldn't hurt as well. If your T2 barges are being shot at on a mining op, and need these links, you are doing something wrong. If your Hulks can't tank the rats drop a Battleship in there first to take the aggro and then your barges and haulers will all be safe for ever. In empire your drones should be able to kill any rats before they become a worry to your miners. I think you misunderstand me..i'm talking mainly of High sec and suicide bombing for isk,seeing as its getting more popular. Having an Orca in high sec is a red flag to these kinds of players hence the need for a boost to def,seeing as CCP wont buff the CPU on these boats.
Anders Offwidth	Posted - 2008.02.08 04:34:00 - [195] Here's a design proposal, based on everyone else's great ideas, with a few of my own. Using advanced scanner electronics, the ORE Orca is capable of supporting mining fleets in all aspects of operation: prospecting, defense, ore extraction, and storage. Constructed with special nanomesh bulkheads, a stationary Orca is capable of cramming huge amounts of ore into its hold, but only with a strong microgravity field to hold the fragile mesh in place under the load. Ship Features: - Storage mode w/"Storage Field Generator" Turns ship into giant freighter-sized jetcan. Because gaining all that extra storage space requires exposing some internal structure to vacuum, the Orca is rendered immobile when entering "storage mode". Takes large amount of energy (100% of base cap.) to activate and consumes ice-product fuel to maintain the storage field. Exiting storage mode automatically jetcans ore in excess of the normal cargo area, but destruction of the ship causes stored cargo to be destroyed in turn due to the sudden loss of the protective field--no massive drops of ore. - Exploration bonus w/"Prospector Probe Array" Assuming more belts become exploration content, it'd be nice to help find them. Currently, high-sec Omber/Kernite belts are not that profitable for the time and probe cost. The Orca acts like a permanent Gravimetric Quest Probe, reducing probing costs. Fleet up with a scanning ship (Heron, Buzzard, etc.), warp to where the exploration pilot wants a probe dropped, and park the Orca. Could also provide small gang probe resolution bonuses. Activation reduces Orca's speed to 0--no roving probes. - No hardpoints It's not a mining ship, it's a mining support ship - Slots: 6 high, 5 med, 4 low Highs: "Storage Field Generator", Mining Foreman Link x3, Sm. Tractor Beam x2 Meds: Command Processor x2, Survey Scanner, "Prospector Probe Array"/Cargo Scanner/Ship Scanner/Remote Sensor Booster/Target Painter/cap modules/shield tank Lows: CPR/PDS/Damage Control/Warp Core Stabs/armor tank - Tiny corp hangar Enough room for a few mining laser crystals and extra drones for the gang - Drone bay w/space for 25 light drones, 25MB/s bandwidth Self-defense and gang defense, more drones for medium-length deployments - Bonus to drone control radius Orca pilot can aid in defense of any miner in the belt - Bonus to Mining Foreman link effectiveness + reduced Command Processor CPU usage - Bonus to tractor beam range and speed Gather jetcans across the belt - Bonus to survey, cargo, and ship scanner range Allow Orca pilot to coordinate targeting of asteroids across the belt, monitor jetcans as they fill up, and scan down potential ore thieves. - Bonus to fleet scan resolution Improves targeting time vs. asteroids and ore thieves - Built-in passive targeting system For targeting and scanning potential ore thieves - 6 max locked targets - Slow and ungainly, but with decent shield/armor New UI Features: - Allow asteroid targets to be flagged to the fleet from the survey window - Assigning targets to wings/squads would be extra cool
Anders Offwidth	Posted - 2008.02.08 04:36:00 - [196] Here's how the Orca could address some concerns with high-sec mining: Give mining op commander something to do - Assign mining targets using fleet tools and survey scanner - Defend mates with longer-range drones - Gather jetcans - Identify potential pirate threats - Help explore for belts Help defend gang against ore thieves - Give faster targeting time to protection ships - Scan potential ore thieves quickly and from afar, without their knowledge, using passive targeting system Discourage attacks by suicide gankers - No stored ore drops from an Orca destroyed in storage mode, greatly reducing profit for pirates, but still leaving motivation for war opponents to attack and deny the ore, and for Orca owners to defend Discourage use of Orca by macro-miners These are only minor inconveniences that reduce the Orca's utility for macro-miners, but their implementation requires no game mechanics changes. - Corp hangar usage requires corp role, not available in NPC corps - Dependence on fuel for storage mode requires some operator attention Do not compete with Rorqual for 0.0 usage - No ore compression - No clone vat bay - No jump drive - No ship maintenance bay - No drone combat bonuses, only small drones
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2008.02.08 20:45:00 - [197] Originally by: Anders Offwidth Do not compete with Rorqual for 0.0 usage - No ore compression - No clone vat bay - No jump drive - No ship maintenance bay - No drone combat bonuses, only small drones As long as it has no jump drive it will NEVER compete with the Rorqual for 0.0 usage. So everything else is irrelevant. I strongly defend that this ship should be able to compress ore. Otherwise it will be completely useless. ===== "If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron...
Marcus Tedric Gallente Tedric Enterprises Space Exploration and Logistic Services	Posted - 2008.02.09 10:34:00 - [198] ... And I'd be completely stunned if the Dev's introduce Ore Compression to High Sec. Want Ore Compression - load Frighter and take it to Rorqual in LoSec - we can't have it too easy. It's supposed to be a reasonable simulation after all.
Chauneko Sakyou	Posted - 2008.02.09 20:04:00 - [199] alright, so basically what we're looking at is this: what high-sec group-mining ops need: 1. a ship with mining command bonuses. what high-sec group-mining ops want: 1. a decent cargohold. 2. tractors that reach a decent distance. 3. mayhaps some scanning abilities or somesuch. 4. (never going to happen) ore compression. what ccp would probably give us: 1. a ship with mining bonuses. 2. a ship with the marauder tractor bonus maybe? 3. scanning bonuses when they get around to revamping the fleet interface a bit more. 4. a 45k m/3 cargohold (probably once it's fully expanded ) what ccp will never give us: 1. ore compression high-sec. (they purposefully worked to stop people from compressing ore high-sec ) ----------------------------------------------------------------
Gillian Haas	Posted - 2008.02.09 22:20:00 - [200] This came to me in a dream. Make the orca a compliment to the rorqual. As it stands, the rorqual can jump around lowsec/0.0 space all alone, that is to say the mining barges need to move normally to keep up with it. How about the orca becomes a ship that can jump bridge mining barges. It would also be nice if it had a bonus to probing out grav sites (or a seperate belt scanning mechanism).
Marcus Tedric Gallente Tedric Enterprises Space Exploration and Logistic Services	Posted - 2008.02.10 10:38:00 - [201] Originally by: Gillian Haas This came to me in a dream. Make the orca a compliment to the rorqual. As it stands, the rorqual can jump around lowsec/0.0 space all alone, that is to say the mining barges need to move normally to keep up with it. How about the orca becomes a ship that can jump bridge mining barges. It would also be nice if it had a bonus to probing out grav sites (or a seperate belt scanning mechanism). The Rorqual carries up to 5 x Covetors/Hulks - or 3 + a large hauler.... It's the pilots that have to keep up!
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2008.02.11 06:17:00 - [202] Originally by: Chauneko Sakyou alright, so basically what we're looking at is this: what high-sec group-mining ops need: 1. a ship with mining command bonuses. 1 already exists. It is called Battlecruiser. you can place mining command modules in them and even use mindlinks in your chars while doing it. And they can tank very well as well. Quote: what high-sec group-mining ops want: 1. a decent cargohold. 2. tractors that reach a decent distance. 3. mayhaps some scanning abilities or somesuch. 4. (never going to happen) ore compression. what ccp would probably give us: 1. a ship with mining bonuses. 2. a ship with the marauder tractor bonus maybe? 3. scanning bonuses when they get around to revamping the fleet interface a bit more. 4. a 45k m/3 cargohold (probably once it's fully expanded ) My iteron Mark 5 with full cargo expanders and rigs has a 38 k cargohold. 49k if I fill it with giant secure containers. Why would I need a special ship for this? Tractor bonus are nice, but then again mostly irrelevant if you don't have a ridiculous amount of space. Space that only compression can give you. So basically, there is no role, that cannot be equally well fullfilled by much cheaper ships for the Orca if it does not have compression. Quote: what ccp will never give us: 1. ore compression high-sec. (they purposefully worked to stop people from compressing ore high-sec ) No they didn't. They TRIED to make modules more difficult to use for compression. And failed... Sorry, but if you think it is difficult to compress minerals in high sec now you are clueless. They did it BECAUSE they had introduced ore compression and wanted this method to be used as the standard way of transporting high volume of minerals. It is clearly stated in Chronotis' Blog. So, by all means lets fully introduce this form of compression, which is the intended official way of doing it, in high sec. ===== "If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron...
gordon861 Minmatar PROGENITOR CORPORATION Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.02.11 13:31:00 - [203] In high sec I'd much rather have mineral compression instead of ore compression. 1. Make the alloys smaller. 2. Put BPOs for them on the market. 3. We can then mix/match all the minerals we want to move around as required. Also when people ask for a Mining Command Ship they mean a ship that is actually designed for this purpose with bonuses per level to mining links when used(in the same way the other Command Ships work). It has been a long time since any DEV replies on this thread and it's starting to go around in circles again. A new DEV response would be good, or are we just wasting our time with this discussion? Originally by: CCP Arkanon I frown on employees being power players to the extent that their gameplay results in any sort of domination over others. I donÆt believe CCP employees should run the EVE universe.
Chauneko Sakyou	Posted - 2008.02.11 16:16:00 - [204] Originally by: Etho Demerzel Originally by: Chauneko Sakyou alright, so basically what we're looking at is this: what high-sec group-mining ops need: 1. a ship with mining command bonuses. 1 already exists. It is called Battlecruiser. you can place mining command modules in them and even use mindlinks in your chars while doing it. And they can tank very well as well. A quick perusal will show that there are currently no command ships or battlecruisers that have bonuses to mining command modules. Originally by: Etho Demerzel Originally by: Chauneko Sakyou what high-sec group-mining ops want: 1. a decent cargohold. 2. tractors that reach a decent distance. 3. mayhaps some scanning abilities or somesuch. 4. (never going to happen) ore compression. what ccp would probably give us: 1. a ship with mining bonuses. 2. a ship with the marauder tractor bonus maybe? 3. scanning bonuses when they get around to revamping the fleet interface a bit more. 4. a 45k m/3 cargohold (probably once it's fully expanded ) My iteron Mark 5 with full cargo expanders and rigs has a 38 k cargohold. 49k if I fill it with giant secure containers. Why would I need a special ship for this? Tractor bonus are nice, but then again mostly irrelevant if you don't have a ridiculous amount of space. Space that only compression can give you. So basically, there is no role, that cannot be equally well fullfilled by much cheaper ships for the Orca if it does not have compression. as far as the cargo size goes, I was in part poking fun at ccp. my apologies that I did not make this evident enough for you. as far as cheaper ships doing it better, I believe ccp has a decent track record of doing such things. the other point here is, in order for the cheaper ships to do it all better, you need multiple pilots. this way you would only need one. Originally by: Etho Demerzel Originally by: Chauneko Sakyou what ccp will never give us: 1. ore compression high-sec. (they purposefully worked to stop people from compressing ore high-sec ) No they didn't. They TRIED to make modules more difficult to use for compression. And failed... Sorry, but if you think it is difficult to compress minerals in high sec now you are clueless. They did it BECAUSE they had introduced ore compression and wanted this method to be used as the standard way of transporting high volume of minerals. It is clearly stated in Chronotis' Blog. So, by all means lets fully introduce this form of compression, which is the intended official way of doing it, in high sec. alright, you get one of those ice or ore compression blueprints to work high-sec, I'll pay you some relatively obscene amount of money. when I looked in-game though, the BP's say: "Note: This blueprint can only be used with the Rorqual Capital Industrial Ship assembly lines." that is not to say that we don't still have people making modules that compress the minerals down to take up a lot less space than they otherwise would, but, it does mean that you cannot compress ice or ore high-sec. ----------------------------------------------------------------
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2008.02.11 19:07:00 - [205] Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 11/02/2008 19:08:26 Originally by: Chauneko Sakyou A quick perusal will show that there are currently no command ships or battlecruisers that have bonuses to mining command modules. No there is not. But ship bonuses in command modules are well known to be irrelevant. That is the case with all the command ships. At level 5 skill in Command Ships they give a grand total of 15% over the command module bonus, which even with a mind link is less than 100%. So at the very best a ship with especific mining command bonuses would give 5-7% more bonus than any unbonused battlecruiser. Quote: as far as the cargo size goes, I was in part poking fun at ccp. my apologies that I did not make this evident enough for you. as far as cheaper ships doing it better, I believe ccp has a decent track record of doing such things. the other point here is, in order for the cheaper ships to do it all better, you need multiple pilots. this way you would only need one. Well, as you cannot take the ship from the sector to keep the bonus active it is better to have more than one. A hauler to keep coming and going and a command ship to stay... Quote: alright, you get one of those ice or ore compression blueprints to work high-sec, I'll pay you some relatively obscene amount of money. when I looked in-game though, the BP's say: "Note: This blueprint can only be used with the Rorqual Capital Industrial Ship assembly lines." that is not to say that we don't still have people making modules that compress the minerals down to take up a lot less space than they otherwise would, but, it does mean that you cannot compress ice or ore high-sec. You fail to understand what I am saying. I said MINERAL compression still exists - the very thing ccp didn't want to happen. And it is WAY more used than ore compression, CCP intended way of compressing raw materials, exactly because ore compression is not allowed in high sec. If you don't believe me just calc the compression a Jumpgate Geenrator still give you. It used to be 400+ to 1, but it is still 40+ to 1 after the nerf. Far more than any ore compression can give you. And see, it DOES work in high sec. ===== "If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron...
Chauneko Sakyou	Posted - 2008.02.11 19:44:00 - [206] Originally by: Etho Demerzel No there is not. But ship bonuses in command modules are well known to be irrelevant. That is the case with all the command ships. At level 5 skill in Command Ships they give a grand total of 15% over the command module bonus, which even with a mind link is less than 100%. So at the very best a ship with especific mining command bonuses would give 5-7% more bonus than any unbonused battlecruiser. some people want that 5-7%. I am one of them. Originally by: Etho Demerzel Well, as you cannot take the ship from the sector to keep the bonus active it is better to have more than one. A hauler to keep coming and going and a command ship to stay... point still stands. this way you only need one pilot. it's up to personal discretion as to whether it would be better or not if the ship is not made to be overwhelming in its attributes. Originally by: Etho Demerzel Originally by: Chauneko Sakyou alright, you get one of those ice or ore compression blueprints to work high-sec, I'll pay you some relatively obscene amount of money. when I looked in-game though, the BP's say: "Note: This blueprint can only be used with the Rorqual Capital Industrial Ship assembly lines." that is not to say that we don't still have people making modules that compress the minerals down to take up a lot less space than they otherwise would, but, it does mean that you cannot compress ice or ore high-sec. You fail to understand what I am saying. I said MINERAL compression still exists - the very thing ccp didn't want to happen. And it is WAY more used than ore compression, CCP intended way of compressing raw materials, exactly because ore compression is not allowed in high sec. If you don't believe me just calc the compression a Jumpgate Geenrator still give you. It used to be 400+ to 1, but it is still 40+ to 1 after the nerf. Far more than any ore compression can give you. And see, it DOES work in high sec. really, I don't fail. read the bold part again. the fact is still that mineral compression through manufactured goods was nerfed by ccp as a direct intent. it also still stands that ore and ice compression BP's do not work high-sec. ----------------------------------------------------------------
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2008.02.11 22:28:00 - [207] Originally by: Chauneko Sakyou some people want that 5-7%. I am one of them. And some people sell T2 without factoring datacore costs because they have R&D agents and think their datacores are for free. Others do the same with minerals. The fact that there are people that want to spend lots of ISK to have 5-7% more bonus in command bonuses in a otherwise useless ship, does not mean it is a good idea... Quote: point still stands. this way you only need one pilot. it's up to personal discretion as to whether it would be better or not if the ship is not made to be overwhelming in its attributes. Again, no objective reason whatsoever given. Just "I want it". As I said both roles are contradictory, unless you can compress ores into your cargo and sit there for a long time, like the rorqual. Cargo Space is useless otherwise. So are capital tractors. Quote: really, I don't fail. read the bold part again. the fact is still that mineral compression through manufactured goods was nerfed by ccp as a direct intent. it also still stands that ore and ice compression BP's do not work high-sec. Really you do. And besides failing you avoid the point. Worse you put it backwards. Mineral compression was nerfed BECAUSE ORE COMPRESSION WAS INTRODUCED. You can read Chornotis' Blog, this is stated there with all the letter for everyone to see. So it comes to reason that Ore compression in high sec should be introduced as well, it being the "correct" way of doing it. Currently ore compression does not exist in high sec simply because you can't do it in stations or POSes. It can only be done in the Rorqual, which is jump capable and thus unable to come into high sec. That is easily corrected giving the same ability to the Orca. Compressing ore in high sec is the only real use for the Orca. Otherwise it will be a useless (and probably expensive) ship. ===== "If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron...
Chauneko Sakyou	Posted - 2008.02.12 04:52:00 - [208] Originally by: Etho Demerzel And some people sell T2 without factoring datacore costs because they have R&D agents and think their datacores are for free. Others do the same with minerals. The fact that there are people that want to spend lots of ISK to have 5-7% more bonus in command bonuses in a otherwise useless ship, does not mean it is a good idea... Just because someone prices something differently does not mean it's not a good idea. If you could drive competition out of a market by ignoring the market value of something you received merely for being around for a time, wouldn't you? And, if it's better than any other command ship out there for mining bonuses, then it's not useless. example: I spent thirty mil the other day to mine ice 4% faster. how long did it take the upgrade to pay for itself? 16 hours of ice mining. that's less than two days for me. so, if I could get 7% faster out of another modifier for a bil, I wouldn't even blink about it. Originally by: Etho Demerzel Again, no objective reason whatsoever given. Just "I want it". As I said both roles are contradictory, unless you can compress ores into your cargo and sit there for a long time, like the rorqual. Cargo Space is useless otherwise. So are capital tractors. I never said anything about capital tractors. and, the cargo space is not useless. if all else fails, it gives the hauler(s) one point to warp to pickup another load. also, for those who only run three-person ops, three cycles with and one cycle without bonuses is still better than no cycles with. Originally by: Etho Demerzel Really you do. And besides failing you avoid the point. Worse you put it backwards. Mineral compression was nerfed BECAUSE ORE COMPRESSION WAS INTRODUCED. You can read Chornotis' Blog, this is stated there with all the letter for everyone to see. So it comes to reason that Ore compression in high sec should be introduced as well, it being the "correct" way of doing it. alright, let's go look at this blog that you keep citing. Chronotis' Blog Originally by: CCP Chronotis This ship's unique ore compression ability allows the movement of ores from fringe regions to empire space for refining, a feature requested since EVE's launch. At no point does he state that it was planned for moving from empire to fringe regions, only for fringe regions to empire. Until CCP says otherwise, I am led to believe that this was and is intentional. ----------------------------------------------------------------
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2008.02.12 07:53:00 - [209] Originally by: Chauneko Sakyou Just because someone prices something differently does not mean it's not a good idea. If you could drive competition out of a market by ignoring the market value of something you received merely for being around for a time, wouldn't you? It does not work like this. Given the production capacity youwill never drive other people out. All you will achieve is to earn less money than you would simply selling the datacores you used. And that is just an example. I can give you several other examples of misguided practices in this game. Quote: And, if it's better than any other command ship out there for mining bonuses, then it's not useless. example: I spent thirty mil the other day to mine ice 4% faster. how long did it take the upgrade to pay for itself? 16 hours of ice mining. that's less than two days for me. so, if I could get 7% faster out of another modifier for a bil, I wouldn't even blink about it. Good luck mining anything in high sec that will give you a back your investment of 1 Bil for a 7% increase in yield in a reasonable amount of time. Quote: I never said anything about capital tractors. and, the cargo space is not useless. if all else fails, it gives the hauler(s) one point to warp to pickup another load. also, for those who only run three-person ops, three cycles with and one cycle without bonuses is still better than no cycles with. That if you have a station in the same sector. Anyway, if only for the bonuses it is not worth. You would be far better using the char that is in the Orca in another Hulk. Unless you have an op of 15+ people. In which case you could as well be mining in low sec or anywhere with a rorqual, as high sec ores really suck. Quote: At no point does he state that it was planned for moving from empire to fringe regions, only for fringe regions to empire. Until CCP says otherwise, I am led to believe that this was and is intentional. Mineral compression was and is not something that was intended. CCP is attempting to fix it still without breaking their game. Originally by: CCP Chronotis The Rorqual's introduction grants us the ability to incorporate older ‘metafeatures’ into EVE in a balanced and officially supported manner. As it is stated here they want to replace mineral compression with ore compression. Well, guess what. Mineral compression is WAY more used to bring material TO null sec, than FROM null sec. Mineral comrpession will never ever end until there is a viable alternative to it, which there is not at the moment. The Orca may be this alternative. With the advantage of stimulating people to mine in high sec. Instead of missioning for minerals or buying from macroers... ===== "If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron...
Chauneko Sakyou	Posted - 2008.02.12 08:47:00 - [210] well sir, I bow out to your absolute brilliance. you have proven that I cannot possibly be planning to play for longer than a month and thus this ship must pay for itself within a month or less. you have also proven that undercutting your competitors is not a viable market scheme and that sticking your hauler into another mining barge is indeed the way to go to increase your isk/hr. furthermore you have also proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that ccp intends for mineral compression and ore compression to be able to bring goods from high-sec to low/null-sec. I paint tears under my eyes and pour ash on my head in shame. (as if) you don't want mining bonuses because 5-7% might take more than a week to pay off. you do want compression because you want an easy fix to move absurd amounts of minerals around easily without having to go low-sec to compress it first. best of all, you think that merely because something is used a lot, therefore it is right or else it must be replaced with something equivalent. obviously CCP has never had something happen in-game that they didn't intend for, I mean, lots of ships were meant to go 5km/s or faster, right? ----------------------------------------------------------------
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2008.02.12 17:26:00 - [211] Originally by: Chauneko Sakyou well sir, I bow out to your absolute brilliance. you have proven that I cannot possibly be planning to play for longer than a month and thus this ship must pay for itself within a month or less. you have also proven that undercutting your competitors is not a viable market scheme and that sticking your hauler into another mining barge is indeed the way to go to increase your isk/hr. furthermore you have also proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that ccp intends for mineral compression and ore compression to be able to bring goods from high-sec to low/null-sec. I paint tears under my eyes and pour ash on my head in shame. Lol "a month or less". I love your lack of math skills. Maybe that is why you are so eager to get what is useless in the end. I shouldn't but I will help you. Calc how much mineral you will get if you put all mining capable team members you have in Hulks and have an alt in a battlecruiser (you can train one for this very easily) giving permanent bonuses and other in a hauler. Now calc the minerals you will have using your brilliant ideas. You will see you have actually losses in relation to the previous scheme. And you cannot even read, which is even more amusing. Who talked about undercutting not being a viable strategy? I told selling manufacturable goods UNDER production price is not. But, oh well, if you can't even understand why 7% bonus is not worth it, this must be WAY beyond you. Quote: you don't want mining bonuses because 5-7% might take more than a week to pay off. you do want compression because you want an easy fix to move absurd amounts of minerals around easily without having to go low-sec to compress it first. best of all, you think that merely because something is used a lot, therefore it is right or else it must be replaced with something equivalent. obviously CCP has never had something happen in-game that they didn't intend for, I mean, lots of ships were meant to go 5km/s or faster, right? With the current mechanics minerals will continue to be transported to low sec through modules. It can't be changed in any further way than it already has been whitout crippling a of of other aspects of the game. Compression in the orca won't change it. It will only introduce a viable alternative that will include high sec miners in the market again, giving them a competitive chance against macroers and mission runners for low ends. Your (lack of) arguments are all fallacious and ilogic. You don't bring a single valid point to this discussion. Instead you try to guess (because blind guessing is the best you can do, really) what CCP wants instead try showing them what the player base want. Because you know, in the end it is what matters. ===== "If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron...
Chauneko Sakyou	Posted - 2008.02.12 19:28:00 - [212] Originally by: Etho Demerzel Lol "a month or less". I love your lack of math skills. Maybe that is why you are so eager to get what is useless in the end. I shouldn't but I will help you. Calc how much mineral you will get if you put all mining capable team members you have in Hulks and have an alt in a battlecruiser (you can train one for this very easily) giving permanent bonuses and other in a hauler. Now calc the minerals you will have using your brilliant ideas. You will see you have actually losses in relation to the previous scheme. And you cannot even read, which is even more amusing. Who talked about undercutting not being a viable strategy? I told selling manufacturable goods UNDER production price is not. But, oh well, if you can't even understand why 7% bonus is not worth it, this must be WAY beyond you. I merely said a month or less as you seem to believe that things taking over a week to pay for themselves shouldn't exist. so I ran the math, let's put it out here, since you aren't willing to. let's assume several variables and get them in the open since running all these numbers for every ship fit and skill setup would be downright annoying. here's my base setup: 2x mackinaws - 2x Ice Harvester II's, 2x ice harvester upg II's skills - exhumers 3, ice harvesting 5. implants - yeti BX-2 current cycle time is 313.45 sec for eight blocks of ice. that puts us at 39.18125sec per block of ice. now we take 7% off that time. cycle time becomes 291.5085 sec which is 36.4385625sec per block of ice. alright, now, let's hold those numbers for a moment, assuming the current value of a block of glacial mass ice is 178,000 isk, it takes 5617.98 blocks of extra ice mined to make the billion that we seem to assume an orca will cost. now we take our old cycle time(39.18125) and subtract our new cycle time(36.4385625) and come up with 2.7426875sec difference. after that, we divide the new cycle time by the difference and come up with every 13.29 blocks we have mined we get an extra block of ice compared to our old rate. so, to get how many blocks total will it take to have made this a better choice we multiply 13.29 by 5617.98 and come up with 74,662.95 blocks of ice before it has paid for itself(assuming all cycles get the bonus). I can mine that with just three accounts in under two months. easy. if this is supposed to be for corp ops where they regularly have more than three people, it would take even less time. Insulting me does not make your points any more valid, if someone gets something directly from the source, they are able to put whatever price they want on it. merely because it does not agree with the status quo does not make it an invalid price. all they have to do is make costs, which they are. you may say they aren't, but datacores are a "natural resource" which won't run out. they get them straight from the agent and pay nothing other than a resource which they wouldn't use otherwise for them. Originally by: Etho Demerzel With the current mechanics minerals will continue to be transported to low sec through modules. It can't be changed in any further way than it already has been whitout crippling a of of other aspects of the game. Compression in the orca won't change it. It will only introduce a viable alternative that will include high sec miners in the market again, giving them a competitive chance against macroers and mission runners for low ends. it doesn't mean CCP intends or wants it to be that way, at which point you still have no basis or grounds for your opinion that they will put compression in the orca. If all I am doing is blind guessing, you are doing no better. I have cited your same blog against you and put the math up. please refute me with facts instead of your meandering insults. ----------------------------------------------------------------
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2008.02.12 23:06:00 - [213] Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 12/02/2008 23:06:44 Originally by: Chauneko Sakyou <First Grade Math applied without the benefit of thinking> That is an example of utterly flawed logic. For starters, the guy in the Orca, must have mining skills and won't be mining. So you must compare 2 Mackinaws and an Orca, with 3 mackinaws. So it is a command bonus of around 30-40% (and I am exagerating here) in two ships against 100% in one extra ship. Therefore you will actually be better without the orca. Now you can argue you will use the orca as hauler, thus saving one person. But you will be denying your ships a third to a half of the bonus, moving an extremelly slow capital ship. So lets put it short. For 3 miners, 3 unbonuses exhumers is better than any combination of exhumer, ORE command ship, and both ships require high mining skills to work and therefore the same specialized chars. Using a char in one of them will forcibly remove one of your miners. For 4 miners it is pretty much even. For 5 miners you start to gain a little puting one in a command ship. But then you have that 7% bonus over a simple battlecruiser, which does not require a specialized char. You could have 5 miners in exhumers and a non specialized char in a battlecruiser, which will yield considerably more than one miner in a Orca and 4 in exhumers. Even if everything goes marvelous well, Ice mining is horrible in high sec. There is not enough Ice and it is greatly contended. Ice mining is worse than Plagio and Kernite mining in any condition to tell you the truth. Even in low sec and 0.0. Now lets imagine we have infinite ice in high sec. Your Mackinaws without command bonuses are able to make maybe 50M/hour per exhumer (this is a very optimistic figure) you will get around 65M/hour with a battlecruiser and command modules and about 67.5M/hour with the orca bonuses. That means 2.5M hour more per mackinaw per hour. It would take you 200 hours to pay an investment of a billion if you compare a battlecruiser and 2 mackinaws with your Orca and 2 mackinaws. And is still 135M/hour instead of the 150M/hour you would make using 3 mackinaws without ANY command bonuses, so you are actually losing money... Quote: Insulting me does not make your points any more valid, if someone gets something directly from the source, they are able to put whatever price they want on it. merely because it does not agree with the status quo does not make it an invalid price. all they have to do is make costs, which they are. you may say they aren't, but datacores are a "natural resource" which won't run out. they get them straight from the agent and pay nothing other than a resource which they wouldn't use otherwise for them. You started with the ad hominem arguments. I am merelly following your lead. You may enjoy the trip. And the reasoning of this last quote is priceless. If you have 1000 units of trit what you will do with them? Sell to buy order for 2 ISK each making 2000 ISK, or build a ship that requires 1000 units of trit and sell it by 1000 ISK? That alone shows how incapable of arguing about this (or any other) issue you are... Quote: t doesn't mean CCP intends or wants it to be that way, at which point you still have no basis or grounds for your opinion that they will put compression in the orca. If all I am doing is blind guessing, you are doing no better. I have cited your same blog against you and put the math up. please refute me with facts instead of your meandering insults. That is the difference between you and me. I am stating the compression in high sec is a good thing and should be implemented. I am showing that otherwise we will have just another useless ship in this game and the permanence of the methods currently used to transport low ends to null sec to the cost of the miner profession. I additionally argue that the devs introduced mineral comrpession as a viable and official alternative to module compression and if that is the case it should be used to ===== "If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron...
Charyb QUANT Offshore Holding Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.02.12 23:08:00 - [214] Alright, devil's advocate. Let's assume that you get that extra 5% yield over time bonus. Let's assume that you find a belt with infinite amount of raw ore. Let's assume this ship will cost about one billion isk to build. Let's assume that with a normal command ship / BC giving the bonus, you can mine a 3 million isk worth of ore in 10 minutes. (I'm being generous) 5% greater yield equates to 21,000 isk / min increase. That's 793 man hours of work to recover the cost of the ship. That's 33 man days of non-stop mining, never switching roids, never spending time to haul. I'd say for your AVERAGE player who mines an average of 1 hour day over their entire play period, this would have a ROI of about two years. ------ [QTHC] Providing Researching Services for <Q>
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2008.02.12 23:12:00 - [215] fullfill this whole. Mineral compression as never EVER used to muve high ends to empire. Nobody compresses Zydrine and Megacyte... You on the other hand, try to guess what the devs "want" and use this as your sole flawed argument, acting as a brownnose. ===== "If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron...
Chauneko Sakyou	Posted - 2008.02.13 02:43:00 - [216] alright bobo the clown, stupid wins. I give up. you want to think you know what's best. go right ahead, keep trolling. I'm done. ----------------------------------------------------------------
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2008.02.13 04:21:00 - [217] Originally by: Chauneko Sakyou well sir,I bow out to your absolute brilliance. Quote: you do want compression because you want an easy fix... These are called ad hominem arguments, the first one being an obvious irony. Aside from being completely unecessary and bringing no objective point whatsoever into a discussion, they are also ofensive. As everything you said in this thread, the claim that I started to throw ofences at you first is false. The one trolling is you. By the lack of content of your posts it is obvious. Now please, could you leave the discussion to people that actually have some objective feedback to give? ===== "If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron...
Mei Jinn	Posted - 2008.02.13 09:43:00 - [218] (for the Devs if they are reading this thread). Please think about giving the Orca 9 High slots,this way it has extra slots for fitting Large shield reppers as well as fitting tractor and Mining Command Mods. In addition another idea would be to allow this and the Rorqual the ability to plug Slot 10 Mindlinks into the actual ship and not just the pilots head. In this way it would be possible to have both Mining and Shield /Armor Tank . thanks
grimda Caldari Serenity Engineering and Transport Company deadspace society	Posted - 2008.02.13 16:20:00 - [219] Perhaps we've forgotten ..... but i'd like something COOL as well. I want to be able to MINE in an orca. If it can't leave hi-sec or jump and wallows like a whale, fine. Giveme a capital MINING ship. Nine strippers and a cargo hold from heck. F the macroers by requiring the using character to be in a corporation that is not NPC. Give us the love we deserve. Acting VP Serenity Engineering and Transport
Fulbert Gallente Calvi Industries Northern Star Coalition	Posted - 2008.02.13 16:56:00 - [220] a solo pown mobile will really depreciate mining barges/exhumers, and their pilots. Thats exactly why the industrial cap ship is a logistic/squad boost ship and not a mining ship... ____________________________________ Fulbert Gall-dari Miner for Calvi Industries "does somebody need scordite?"
Mara Rinn Minmatar	Posted - 2008.02.14 03:46:00 - [221] Originally by: Charyb Alright, devil's advocate. [snip] 5% greater yield equates to 21,000 isk / min increase. That's 793 man hours of work to recover the cost of the ship. That's 33 man days of non-stop mining, never switching roids, never spending time to haul. You are also assuming that someone is going to get the Orca and fly it solo. If you enter a belt with two other people, doesn't that reduce the individually contributed time to 11 days of effort? If you enter a system as a fleet with 10 other people, doesn't that reduce the individually contributed time to 3 days of effort? Who is going to fly a capital ship solo?
grimda Caldari Serenity Engineering and Transport Company deadspace society	Posted - 2008.02.14 05:16:00 - [222] So what? Maybe we need a way to compete with eht ISK farmers that now dominate the mineral markets? Give me CAPITAL STRIP MINERS Acting VP Serenity Engineering and Transport
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.02.14 16:03:00 - [223] Originally by: Mara Rinn You are also assuming that someone is going to get the Orca and fly it solo. If you enter a belt with two other people, doesn't that reduce the individually contributed time to 11 days of effort? If you enter a system as a fleet with 10 other people, doesn't that reduce the individually contributed time to 3 days of effort? Who is going to fly a capital ship solo? No, I think you misunderstand the concept of manhours. No matter how many people are there, the number of man hours needed to return the investment remain the same. If all we're talking about it a big command ship, you'd be much better off spending the money from the orca on another account for the guy currently sitting in a Battlecruiser to mine in a hulk. If it significantly adds to the logistical aspects of a mining fleet, like adding high-sec compression, then it would have a much higher value. Let me put it this way, if the price difference between a hulk and a covetor was 3 billion isk (for an arbitrary 15% yield difference) would the hulk be as prevalent? _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
dakeann	Posted - 2008.02.16 15:57:00 - [224] so is there any news from the devs lately
Per Bastet Amarr B.O.O.M Socius Tutaminis Velox	Posted - 2008.02.17 00:33:00 - [225] So what do the Devs have planned for this?
Artmedis Valben Gallente Lobster of Babel	Posted - 2008.02.19 13:36:00 - [226] As said before It should have some of the qualities of the Rorqual without being as efficient. It definately should have better mining link bonus than BCs/CSs: at least extra +3% per level It should have tractor bonus and shield repper bonus, be able to tank any high sec NPC spawn. Limited compression ability would be cool: fewer lines or longer cycle than the Rorqual perhaps. Ability to field drones? Ability to store a few hours worth of mining from a gang of maxed Hulks/Mackinaws? Definately not a mining platform. Selling: PERFECT PRINTS T2 SHIPS
Kaaii Caldari PixelJuice Design Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.02.19 13:43:00 - [227] However its fielded, there should be only one BPO, and I should get it... According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. kieron Director of Community Relations,
Estar Tarns Gallente Trogdor Burninators FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.02.20 21:21:00 - [228] Haven't read all the replies to this, but still giving my thought on this. Rorqual: Capital 0.0 mining nexus. Orca: High-Sec mining support platform? Here's my idea of a high-sec and avagerage corp mining support ship. Mining op, around 10 pilots in a gang. Deploy the Orca in the middle of the astroid field. Orca gives some good mining bonuses. Let the miners mine into their usual jet-can. Orca trac-beam the cans to itself. Orca can fill up it's cargo first, before the haulers are put to work. Haulers got a central point of operation to haul back to a station. When about to finish up, the orca, haulers and miners should be full and head back to a station. (maybe the astroid field got a higher chance of depleting before everybody is full?) With somthing like this, it's not a cap ship, gives the required bonuses, using trac-beams effectivly and not a overkill mining platform. And when the ore is refined, the orca takes it all and haul it back to a HQ, if needed
TimmyJB	Posted - 2008.02.28 13:27:00 - [229] I hope they add the compression,id be willing to deal with the training. I dont expect this ship to be like the low sec version but with compression just seems it would be more worth the time buying this ship. I dont mean to start any flameing stuff its just id like something to add to my Characters mining career. Plus if this ship does make it in,it will be another reason to keep playing :)
Maor Raor	Posted - 2008.03.04 01:20:00 - [230] Originally by: Evitcidda Originally by: Xaildaine Seriously... An empire mining cap ship seams a bit extreem. All we want is Larger anchorable cans and somewhere we can anchor them.. Is that so hard? This Yeah .. That
W3370Pi4 Caldari Lords Of Kaos Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.04 05:20:00 - [231] dont complain when minerals price's go down again . if they find time to devellop a small rorqual why not some sort of small Freighter to fill the gap between Transport ship and Freigters :S
Sikozu Prioris Suns Of Korhal deadspace society	Posted - 2008.03.04 14:36:00 - [232] Originally by: Artmedis Valben ...stuff... Ability to store a few hours worth of mining from a gang of maxed Hulks/Mackinaws? Definately not a mining platform. Lol a hour of mining in a hulk, that is maxed out, is around 150,000m3. A few hours of a gang of hulks is MORE THAN A FREIGHTER worth. LOL please think before posting. Even the rorqual with compression stuggles in long mining ops to store everything without offloading. Lol
Ford Hakata Hakata Group	Posted - 2008.03.05 22:46:00 - [233] What I'd love to see is that the Rorqual's "pincher" (seen open when it's transformed to industrial mode) is used to connect the Rorq to another ship or POS module for added bonuses or storage or perhaps something even cooler. --
Bo Kantrel	Posted - 2008.03.05 23:03:00 - [234] Edited by: Bo Kantrel on 05/03/2008 23:03:21 Maybe the Orca will appear in the Trinity 1.1 patch??
Chony Caldari UNITED STAR SYNDICATE Ka-Tet	Posted - 2008.03.06 12:18:00 - [235] Edited by: Chony on 06/03/2008 12:18:35 Man i love the idea of orca, it will just lower the prices of trit, pyerite, mex, and in turn raise the price of all 0.0 minerals making 0.0 mining even more profitable but it will keep empire mining the same isk per hour as it is now :)
KAELA MENSHA	Posted - 2008.03.10 11:40:00 - [236] Give it a scan probe bonus so. So it's useful for finding and mining grav sites. To often you find a good site and no station in system/ This could be the answer
Lyvanna Kitaen Minmatar Noonday Sun Corp	Posted - 2008.03.11 00:00:00 - [237] I don't know if anyone has mentioned it in this thread or not, but a ship maintenence bay would be great for hauling rigged ships in empire. As it stands now, moving rigged ships around is a pain since you have to actually fly them individually to their destination. I would love to be able to load up a couple of hulks and a hauler and move them all at once to a system to do a mining op.
Bron ves Retribution Angels La Famila	Posted - 2008.03.11 02:37:00 - [238] Indeed that is a good point Lyvanna. Would be a very useful tool.
Pizi Gallente	Posted - 2008.03.11 14:28:00 - [239] Originally by: Bo Kantrel Edited by: Bo Kantrel on 05/03/2008 23:03:21 Maybe the Orca will appear in the Trinity 1.1 patch?? no but in the AT5 eve TV broadcast they said it will come with the faction war expansion so around sommer _______________________________________________ Mining Crystal II BPC Pricelist EVEpedia[Deutsch]
PoweredByVelleity	Posted - 2008.03.11 18:53:00 - [240] I would like to see the Orca be a platform for mining in systems with no stations. Large ore-specific cargo bay/compression/whatever. And a 40-60km tractor range. It might also be good for salvaging then, if it has enough high slots.
Jonas Vinthyn Cassandra's Light	Posted - 2008.03.14 14:49:00 - [241] Originally by: W3370Pi4 if they find time to devellop a small rorqual why not some sort of small Freighter to fill the gap between Transport ship and Freigters :S Tier 2 industrials.....long overdue. Nothing too fancy, couple less highs and mids, couple more lows. A Woodchuck Mark II (see what I did there? :) ) with 6 lows, 2 mids, and 1 high would add capacity to the badger but still not "nerf" transports since its still a t1 with little resists but it would fill the in between role nicely. -Jonas My POS - POS Fitting and Fuel Calc Stats!
Zanpt Lone Star Mining and Manufacturing Ultionis Quietus	Posted - 2008.03.14 21:20:00 - [242] Originally by: Hilly22222 and...a casino! And an S&M room where CCP devs can be bound and beaten.
quickshot89 Imperators	Posted - 2008.03.14 21:42:00 - [243] i cant wait for more info for this, my corp has already said we are getting once if we can afford / have the skills by the time its out Imperators, we seek glory and honour
shady trader University of Caille	Posted - 2008.03.14 23:23:00 - [244] That I would think Eve needs is as a ship that is part industrial, part command ship and part mini carrier. 1) It has the command bonus to mining and scanners. 2) It either has a massive ore specific cargo hold and a reasonable main hold (say 4,000m3 for loot, ammo fuel and spare crystals etc) or ore compression. as well as tractor beam bonuses. 3) The abbility to carry a number of ships, with significant bonuses to industrials and barges assuming this is total cargo hold size. This way corp member can be sent out in frigites to scout belts and then switch to mining or indy ships without having to leave the system. Say room for 3/4 barges and a hauler. One way to do this is have a very small ship bay but have massive bonus to specific classes similar to strip miners fitting on a barge. To balance it make it have less production lines then it's big brother + possibly a shorter range scan and tractor beam. Also make in slow at non warp speeds (partly to stop it being a perfect looting machine) and so it cannot just zip onto a belt grab the cans and then go back to its safe spot, if its slow then it will have to sit in the belt. As a person who does small mining ops I realy want a large hauler that gives mining bonus. The ability to be able to load my whole mining op onto 1 ship and move it another system without sending hours hauling supplies and rigged ships would be very useful. Especially then looking at mining missions as you often have to do them in another system. You first need to use a combat ship to clear the area, then bring in barges, finally you need several haulers (or several trips) to haul the ore back to your agent. Macrointel, the place were the nature order of the universe does not hold sway. Pirates and ore thief's are congrated by carebears for the actions.
FullBoat Center For High Times The Second Genesis	Posted - 2008.03.16 01:52:00 - [245] I would think something like this would be good: 1) 1 lane for compression - This is high-sec after all 2) Be able to use capitol tractor beams 3) Get a nice mining bonus, and be able to use 2 gang mods 4) Nice sized drone bay. Say 250m3, and be able to put out 5 heavy/sentry's. Just for help with rats, and the crazy can flipper. 5) 4,000 m3 cargo hold, for the ore/fuel 6) 1,000 m3 Corp Hanger. For the crystals, and maybe to switch out mods if needed. It shouldn't be able to carry any ships. You don't really need it for high-sec. It should be about as fast as molasseses in December. Say 50m/s? It's not like it's going to go anywhere once it's in a belt. As for the Cap/CPU. Enough to fit a XL-SB and maybe a couple of active shield hardeners. But, nothing crazy. Most likely the lows are going to be cargo expanders anyway. :) Skills: - Mining Barge 5 - Advanced Spaceship Command 4.. maybe 5 - Mining 5 - Astrogeology 5 I'm sure I'm missing some on the skills, but to me that seams like a nice rounded ship. It's not a total killer, but a lot better then what's out there. As for cost. I'm thinking it should take about 1bil to make. The "Big Brother" is going for about 2bil last I looked.
KAELA MENSHA gallach minig Corp New Eve Mining manufacturing Organisation	Posted - 2008.03.26 16:29:00 - [246] Originally by: FullBoat I would think something like this would be good: 1) 1 lane for compression - This is high-sec after all 2) Be able to use capitol tractor beams 3) Get a nice mining bonus, and be able to use 2 gang mods 4) Nice sized drone bay. Say 250m3, and be able to put out 5 heavy/sentry's. Just for help with rats, and the crazy can flipper. 5) 4,000 m3 cargo hold, for the ore/fuel 6) 1,000 m3 Corp Hanger. For the crystals, and maybe to switch out mods if needed. It shouldn't be able to carry any ships. You don't really need it for high-sec. It should be about as fast as molasseses in December. Say 50m/s? It's not like it's going to go anywhere once it's in a belt. As for the Cap/CPU. Enough to fit a XL-SB and maybe a couple of active shield hardeners. But, nothing crazy. Most likely the lows are going to be cargo expanders anyway. :) Skills: - Mining Barge 5 - Advanced Spaceship Command 4.. maybe 5 - Mining 5 - Astrogeology 5 I'm sure I'm missing some on the skills, but to me that seams like a nice rounded ship. It's not a total killer, but a lot better then what's out there. As for cost. I'm thinking it should take about 1bil to make. The "Big Brother" is going for about 2bil last I looked. --------------------------------------------------------- In that form. About as much use as a chocolate poker Or is that the idea ?
Kamikazi ONE AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.03.26 17:15:00 - [247] Originally by: FullBoat I would think something like this would be good: 1) 1 lane for compression - This is high-sec after all 2) Be able to use capitol tractor beams 3) Get a nice mining bonus, and be able to use 2 gang mods 4) Nice sized drone bay. Say 250m3, and be able to put out 5 heavy/sentry's. Just for help with rats, and the crazy can flipper. 5) 4,000 m3 cargo hold, for the ore/fuel 6) 1,000 m3 Corp Hanger. For the crystals, and maybe to switch out mods if needed. It shouldn't be able to carry any ships. You don't really need it for high-sec. It should be about as fast as molasseses in December. Say 50m/s? It's not like it's going to go anywhere once it's in a belt. As for the Cap/CPU. Enough to fit a XL-SB and maybe a couple of active shield hardeners. But, nothing crazy. Most likely the lows are going to be cargo expanders anyway. :) Skills: - Mining Barge 5 - Advanced Spaceship Command 4.. maybe 5 - Mining 5 - Astrogeology 5 I'm sure I'm missing some on the skills, but to me that seams like a nice rounded ship. It's not a total killer, but a lot better then what's out there. As for cost. I'm thinking it should take about 1bil to make. The "Big Brother" is going for about 2bil last I looked. A couple of comments ... The command mods should be the same as the Fleet Command ships = 3 gang mods. A 4k m3 cargohold is pointless, 400k+ would be more like it (even if only useable whilst in its industrial mode). I would still like this thing to be able to transfer ore directly to a freighter to move back to a station.
Emporer Norton Interstellar Pilot Academy	Posted - 2008.03.27 06:27:00 - [248] How about a 40-50km3 cargo but ore and ice take 1/10 normal space so it will hold a full belt worth of ore but is only for ore anything else is more then industrial but less then freighter
KAELA MENSHA gallach minig Corp New Eve Mining manufacturing Organisation	Posted - 2008.03.27 10:51:00 - [249] must have ability to carry rigged ships I.E hulks etc decent cargo capacity. and mining bonus, please can we have scan probe bonus aswell. if mining is moving toward exploration based mining.
loki gallach gallach minig Corp New Eve Mining manufacturing Organisation	Posted - 2008.03.27 11:19:00 - [250] Originally by: shady trader That I would think Eve needs is as a ship that is part industrial, part command ship and part mini carrier. 1) It has the command bonus to mining and scanners. 2) It either has a massive ore specific cargo hold and a reasonable main hold (say 4,000m3 for loot, ammo fuel and spare crystals etc) or ore compression. as well as tractor beam bonuses. 3) The abbility to carry a number of ships, with significant bonuses to industrials and barges assuming this is total cargo hold size. This way corp member can be sent out in frigites to scout belts and then switch to mining or indy ships without having to leave the system. Say room for 3/4 barges and a hauler. One way to do this is have a very small ship bay but have massive bonus to specific classes similar to strip miners fitting on a barge. To balance it make it have less production lines then it's big brother + possibly a shorter range scan and tractor beam. Also make in slow at non warp speeds (partly to stop it being a perfect looting machine) and so it cannot just zip onto a belt grab the cans and then go back to its safe spot, if its slow then it will have to sit in the belt. As a person who does small mining ops I realy want a large hauler that gives mining bonus. The ability to be able to load my whole mining op onto 1 ship and move it another system without sending hours hauling supplies and rigged ships would be very useful. Especially then looking at mining missions as you often have to do them in another system. You first need to use a combat ship to clear the area, then bring in barges, finally you need several haulers (or several trips) to haul the ore back to your agent. thats about right. scan the site, clear it. and team mates bring in the mining equipment
Mehg Space gnomes and square pigs	Posted - 2008.03.27 11:20:00 - [251] I'm a small scale high-sec miner. I don't have the resources to move into low sec, let alone 0.0. In small gangs (<5 people), T1 industrials work fine, and like has been said - there are almost always refineries within 1-2 jumps. The biggest problems with carebear mining that I've seen are: Jetcan mining - most semipro highsec miners have hauler bots, or friends that love doing nothing than going from Point A to Point B ad naeusum. Giving said bored person something more to do would be great to make it less boring, or give us something big enough to haul so said person can actually do some mining inbetween trips (make the Orca deploy to a giant can to mine to, ship is immobile but can use stripminers/drones, and nearby miners can deposit directly into cargo hold - I dunno, just thinking out loud here) Virtually no Low-Sec mining - it's just not profitable to mine in small gangs in 0.4-0.1 space. There are thousands of tasty belts, but so many "pirate gangs" decide that since it's low sec they can claim it as "turf" with impunity, or even worse, just decide to pop barges because they are sitting ducks - all it takes is a frig warping in close with a scrammer and wait for his buddies in "any ship with weapons" and it makes the risk much too high for something you can get in high sec anyway. Sure - if you get together a sizable crew you can scare them off, or maybe cut a deal with whatever pvp corp is in the area, but those aren't really options for small-scale corps. I don't think the Orca is a solution to this unless it took a drastic military turn - more like a POS you could anchor in a belt, online defenses (maybe existing POS defenses), store ore in while it's anchored, and could back something big enough to haul a belts' worth of ore at a time. Lots of people love to say "Move to 0.0", but it isn't practical unless your with a decently crewed alliance - there is no incentive for small corps. What really needs to be done is do something to make low-sec more attractive for people who are ready to move out of high sec, but don't have the political backing to move to 0.0. Right now, unless I get a corp that has established safe belts in 0.0, there's no reason to leave high-sec mining, especially with the way Trit prices have been climbing. I don't really see the need for another high-sec mining support ship - I'd love to see a tool that enables us to move into low-sec without needing a gang of armed guards nearby. Make the risks in low sec more manageable, and balance out the Risk vs Reward in mining in other-than-highsec areas - that's what really is broke with mining today.
loki gallach gallach minig Corp New Eve Mining manufacturing Organisation	Posted - 2008.03.27 11:57:00 - [252] Originally by: quickshot89 i cant wait for more info for this, my corp has already said we are getting once if we can afford / have the skills by the time its out Same here if they get the specs right. Rorqual was a white elephant. (No use what so ever)
Esab Brotherhood of the Phoenix Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.03.27 23:25:00 - [253] Same here if they get the specs right. Rorqual was a white elephant. (No use what so ever) Are you serious? You must be doing something wrong mate.
CliveMerric Miners In Barges	Posted - 2008.03.27 23:34:00 - [254] wow this thread is still going strong :) hurry up CCP /me shakes fist
shady trader University of Caille	Posted - 2008.03.28 11:41:00 - [255] Given that we are going to be moving from fixed belts (dev blogs and drawing board) to discoverable ones (using scanners) and the exploration belts that can be found now. I do think we need to have a cap ship that can carry a few mining related ships and can allow players to switch from frigites in space. The reason for this is simple, you use the frigites to scout the planets (to scan from) in a system or more to find the based belt(s), call for the Orca (I assume its a slow ship) the other scouts can then head to the same system and belt, meet up with the Orca/clear the belt of rats. Then take there hulks and indy's out of the ship hold and start mining. Given that the majority of ships used in a mining op in high sec are rigged to some extent, moving them to a statation in a system is a real pain especially given their low base speed. As CCP move more to non fixed roid locations and the high sec population grows its going to become more complicated to find roids with decent amounts of ore that is not being mined. If you go off the beaten track you have more chance to find untouched ore but you may also run into other groups doing the same. As a result scouting systems will become more important. Having the Orca be able to support this way of mining would be very usefull and make it in greate demand. Also thair are a number of high sec systems were their is no station, while there is one in a next door system it still increases the time and complexity of the mining op, and one thing all miners know time=isk! so being able to have the op be self sufficent would be very helpfull. Macrointel, the place were the nature order of the universe does not hold sway. Pirates and ore thief's are congrated by carebears for the actions.
loki gallach gallach minig Corp New Eve Mining manufacturing Organisation	Posted - 2008.03.28 17:17:00 - [256] Originally by: shady trader Given that we are going to be moving from fixed belts (dev blogs and drawing board) to discoverable ones (using scanners) and the exploration belts that can be found now. I do think we need to have a cap ship that can carry a few mining related ships and can allow players to switch from frigites in space. The reason for this is simple, you use the frigites to scout the planets (to scan from) in a system or more to find the based belt(s), call for the Orca (I assume its a slow ship) the other scouts can then head to the same system and belt, meet up with the Orca/clear the belt of rats. Then take there hulks and indy's out of the ship hold and start mining. Given that the majority of ships used in a mining op in high sec are rigged to some extent, moving them to a statation in a system is a real pain especially given their low base speed. As CCP move more to non fixed roid locations and the high sec population grows its going to become more complicated to find roids with decent amounts of ore that is not being mined. If you go off the beaten track you have more chance to find untouched ore but you may also run into other groups doing the same. As a result scouting systems will become more important. Having the Orca be able to support this way of mining would be very usefull and make it in greate demand. Also thair are a number of high sec systems were their is no station, while there is one in a next door system it still increases the time and complexity of the mining op, and one thing all miners know time=isk! so being able to have the op be self sufficent would be very helpfull. ------------------------------------------------------ At last the voice of reason. design a ship for the future, not to make it fit in with what we've always done. The ability to evolve or adapt keeps the game fresh. Doing things the old way leads to stagnation
Mandriard	Posted - 2008.04.13 11:18:00 - [257] Originally by: Lyvanna Kitaen I don't know if anyone has mentioned it in this thread or not, but a ship maintenence bay would be great for hauling rigged ships in empire. As it stands now, moving rigged ships around is a pain since you have to actually fly them individually to their destination. I would love to be able to load up a couple of hulks and a hauler and move them all at once to a system to do a mining op. I totally concur, In my opinion miners are in essence a nomade type of breed, moving from system to system - at present unfortunately logged down by the massive logistical challenge of moving equipment - in RL this would certainly be resolved by deploying a vessel that would allow you to move continously. The Orca should certainly allow for Rigged ships to be carried in x numbers. I also do believe that the ship should only be obtainable/useable if the Player is in a player corp. Even if the corp only holds 1 person in that corp.. It at least allows for dealing with Macro miners ...
Blackbolt	Posted - 2008.04.13 16:51:00 - [258] Agreed. Not a good idea. The market for empire-based minerals is viable as-is. What would be a good idea, though is a mini-freighter (or maxi hauler) with 100k m3 cargo capacity. Been looking for that for years - just ask any POS specialist how badly they need it. Originally by: mamba mo THIS IDEA SHOULD BE SCRAPED!!!! with the rorqual, 0.0 mining is better and its worth mining low end ores such as veldspar and scordite however if this hi-sec verison is introduced then it will be just the same as before and people will go back to briging minrals into 0.0 by module compresion like the pasive targerter ect.
Blackbolt	Posted - 2008.04.13 16:59:00 - [259] Discoverbale belt has absolutely no change, m8. Not sure why CCP thinks this is needed. Scan probers will get you zeroed in less than :60s. Combat or mining begins. There's absolutely nothing that you can do in .01-.04 to stop a PvP gang from torching your billion isk investment in a matter of 1-2 minutes - unless you load up full of chappies and have them stand guard. But if you're going to do that, might as well mine crok or ark. In high-sec, there's nothing that you can do to prevent the same scenario except the offending party just zeroes in on you to squat/piggyback/claim jump your belt with their ships and strip, strip, strip away - while you shake your fist complaining that you did all the hard work to find it..... lol@ccp - another not so great feature change. Originally by: shady trader Given that we are going to be moving from fixed belts (dev blogs and drawing board) to discoverable ones (using scanners) and the exploration belts that can be found now. I do think we need to have a cap ship that can carry a few mining related ships and can allow players to switch from frigites in space. The reason for this is simple, you use the frigites to scout the planets (to scan from) in a system or more to find the based belt(s), call for the Orca (I assume its a slow ship) the other scouts can then head to the same system and belt, meet up with the Orca/clear the belt of rats. Then take there hulks and indy's out of the ship hold and start mining. Given that the majority of ships used in a mining op in high sec are rigged to some extent, moving them to a statation in a system is a real pain especially given their low base speed. As CCP move more to non fixed roid locations and the high sec population grows its going to become more complicated to find roids with decent amounts of ore that is not being mined. If you go off the beaten track you have more chance to find untouched ore but you may also run into other groups doing the same. As a result scouting systems will become more important. Having the Orca be able to support this way of mining would be very usefull and make it in greate demand. Also thair are a number of high sec systems were their is no station, while there is one in a next door system it still increases the time and complexity of the mining op, and one thing all miners know time=isk! so being able to have the op be self sufficent would be very helpfull.
Mika Meroko Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc	Posted - 2008.04.15 23:55:00 - [260] Edited by: Mika Meroko on 15/04/2008 23:57:16 I want my transforming ship!!!! but seriously, just need compression, a massive hold, (400k) and maybe command modules... as long as it is not a T2 verison of the Roq... I am fine with it....(yeah, if its T2... yeah, it will be pretty useless due to it costs..come on, is designed for highsec!!!!... earning 12 billion for a highsec Roq...yeah....... atleast the jump freighter is useful...)
Gilgamoth Eldritch Storm	Posted - 2008.04.16 11:39:00 - [261] I'm just gonna drop in my 0.02 ISK here. Personally, I see the Orca as a cross between a Command Ship and a mini-carrier. Yes Please 1) It does need 3 gang mods and bonuses to said mods. 2) It should have bonus to tractor beam range and/or be able to use Cap Tractor Beams (or medium/large tractor beams). This is to bring the jet cans dropped by the barges to itself so that the hauler has one pick-up point. 3) It should be able to defend itself either through drones, sentries or fighters (or resists). No Thanks 1) The Orca doesn't need compression. You're never more than a couple of jumps from a station in empire (high and low sec). Also compression = "siege mode" = ganked in low sec, it should be mobile enough to get out or be able to defend itself. 2) It doesn't need to be a massive hauler. Every time you dock or leave system your gang will loose it's gang boost. Max expanded T1 haulers (+38k m3 itty 5) can easily manage in high sec. 45k m3 is enough to be able to hold two full jetcans. Nice To Haves 1) It would be nice to have a ship maintenance bay. Not necessarily limited to barges & industrials as you'd want to store frigates/shuttles in it whilst the barges are in use (if running ops in low sec) 2) Jump capabilities would be nice. However, as this is primarily an empire ship and you can't light a cyno above 0.4, this might be a waste. ALso, do you really want to light up a beacon that says "here I am" to every pirate that's watching the map? As I said, just my 0.02 ISK. Regards, Gil Live on Eden Underground Radio every Wednesday 19:00 - 21:00 GMT.
Alex Redwidth	Posted - 2008.04.16 18:18:00 - [262] Edited by: Alex Redwidth on 16/04/2008 18:18:55 My own thoughts are a little different, as rather than simply a 'mining m3 booster', I think the Orca could have more influence on encouraging co-operative mining ops with larger fleets. 1, possibly 2 Gang module(s). Skill bonus to tractor range (x2?). 4-5 High slots (tractors). Cargo hold of 'bugger all'. No drones. Now for the reasoning: Put 3 gang modules on this and give it defensive capabilities as people are suggesting and it is a valuable command ship. Put a huge hold in it and end up being used as a better industrial before the path to freighter. Pilots of the orca wouldn't have any need to fly their industrials any more. Give it the above and you make it useful in mining ops, providing a single 'destination' for your haulers (tractoring the cans) and will encourage larger mining ops. Rather than removing traditional roles within a mining op, you'd be expanding them and encouraging more pilots to join in. It also is less useful to dual account/2-3 account mining ops[1] and shouldn't affect current skill paths to freight/command ship. The Orca would have a clearly defined role and be little more than a tractor platform with a fleet mining bonus, maybe destroyer sized as it'd rely on rabbiting at the sign of trouble. It might even make mining ops more of a target and encourage mining ops to include combat patrols. [1] I say this as a dual account miner, we make boats loads of ISK in high sec as it is and I'd rather see something to encourage 'team play' than simply make us more profitable.
Vlad Dakovnovich	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:05:00 - [263] it would be nice to get an expected release date and a few details so that we can start training for it. We have been waiting a long time since it was first mentioned. Also if it is a high sec ship are the BPO's going to be seeded in high sec or just in ore space like all the other ore ships. Seems a bit backwards to me.
Kev Hunter	Posted - 2008.04.20 06:09:00 - [264] Ahh yes, the Orca. I'd like to see it hold 100k m3. I could care less if it compresses ore or not. Obviously something of this nature is going to move slow in space.. so I'm not going to make an unreasonable demand that it move as fast as a frigate. Capital tractor beams, very nice. Also allow it to use non-capitals as well? A drone bay would be nice. At least 50 m3. If it were to have the same mining foreman/mining director bonuses as the Rorqual I'd be happy with that. Well, those are my reasonable requests... Here are my trolling unreasonable demands: 1) Infinite Hull, Armor, and Shield. 2) It must have a top speed of 1,000,000 m/s 3) A cargohold of infinite m3. 4) Unlimited range on all tractor beam types 5) Drone bay of infinite m3 with infinite drone bandwidth. 6) 65,535 High, Medium, and Low slots 7) So many mining bonuses that all miners can use a Miner 1, fire a 1 second mining cycle on ANY asteroid and it be depleted and automatically jetcanned. 8) BPO = 1 ISK 9) Build time = 1 second 10) Requirements to build it: 1 tritanium Okay, I got the trolling out of the way. I now bring you back to your regularly scheduled forum topic.. already in progress.
Ortos Abyssus Incendia THORN Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.21 00:18:00 - [265] Originally by: Ishina Fel You all realize that this ship is secretly beingintroduced to stop all the "Give Chribba A Highsec Rorqual" petition threads popping up every so often? Someone needs to gank the veldnaught, maybe a frig op with a couple of thousand frigs or something.. =P
Nick Bison	Posted - 2008.04.21 20:29:00 - [266] I read quite some time ago that CCP had some basic design ideas about the Orca. i also asked back then to let us know the outline of their ideas so we could make our discussion more productive instead of a big wishlist. If I missed CCP's post on their outline, please point me toward it. If it has not been posted yet ... come on guys, throw me a bone here!
agrajag119 Sev3rance	Posted - 2008.04.21 21:17:00 - [267] My .02 isk on the Orca. Design it for in-belt work. Give it a bonus to shield transfer array distance, but not to capital shield xfer. Give it the cargo to handle about 3-cans worth of ore, and able to fit capital tractors. So it would be used as a consolidation point of an op, it pulls all the cans in and holds them internally until a hauler is nearby. This keeps the jetcans out of the belt, thus minimizing the threat of flippers as well as providing a buffer to make ops in systems w/o stations more feasible. Should cost roughly a billion, mainly to make it an achievable goal for corps.
Relevohs	Posted - 2008.04.27 11:41:00 - [268] ...or - just let me move the Rorqual to High sec :) (age old grumble) /rant off ---------------------------------------------- Minmatar News Network (MNN) tm Your news source, covering violence and mayhem with compassion.
Shintai Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2008.04.27 17:38:00 - [269] Right now Orca vs Rorqual in the DB is: 100K PG vs 320K PG 20K vs 40K Cargo 4/4/2 vs 6/7/3 Slots 12K vs 30K Armour I worry about the cargo bay due to compression. Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
quickshot89 Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.27 22:33:00 - [270] how did you find that out?
KAELA MENSHA	Posted - 2008.04.29 22:49:00 - [271] Where did you find that infomation
Killer Kelly Caldari Risen Heretic Armada New Eden Federation.	Posted - 2008.04.29 23:33:00 - [272] Originally by: Ortos Originally by: Ishina Fel You all realize that this ship is secretly beingintroduced to stop all the "Give Chribba A Highsec Rorqual" petition threads popping up every so often? Someone needs to gank the veldnaught, maybe a frig op with a couple of thousand frigs or something.. =P I'm surprised nobody has done it. ___________ I Get Money in New Eden Federation
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.04.30 06:49:00 - [273] Originally by: Relevohs ...or - just let me move the Rorqual to High sec :) (age old grumble) /rant off My Industrial alt is dreaming about that as well....
Zirconium Blade Ass Pounding Space Monkeys	Posted - 2008.04.30 17:19:00 - [274] Personally I cant wait to blow one of these up :)
Xynomorphine Gallente Sortek Consortium Artificial Intelligence.	Posted - 2008.05.03 22:52:00 - [275] I reckon this is a good idea, I might suggest base it on the Hulk Design but with say 6x High Slots, Mid Slots stay the same, and 4x Low Slots. Increase the Cargo Capacity, bonus to small tractor beams, ability to Ore Compress. Have role bonus of the bigger Rorqual??? Have no Ship Hanger or Corp Hanger??? or Clone Vat Bay ???
shady trader	Posted - 2008.05.04 14:07:00 - [276] I personally think that it does need a ships hanger just to be able to help relocate a mining op. As for were someoen got the stats for it form. The Dev's provide a limited database export, its used via some sites to produce their item database. you can get it in either SQL statements or CSV files that you need to link some of the tables. Dev's, is it not about time we see some proto types on the test server please?
Loor Artuna	Posted - 2008.05.07 11:56:00 - [277] I personally think this would be great for small corps or personal high sec ops, currently I use three accoutns when I mine (2 exhumers and a transport ship) having something like a roqual would be a big boost for me. I can live without Jump capability, corp bay, maitenance bay and clone vat capability, but having the compression even if it takes a bit longer to do is something that this ship needs, whats the point in using it if it doesnt have it. id have it use the capital industrial skill but without all that jump drive operation stuff, but maby require the exhumer skill instead.
OakRavin	Posted - 2008.05.07 17:21:00 - [278] Originally by: D Gelalder [hijack] Using chruker's crystal ball, i saw the following item. http://eve-files.com/dl/131573 [/hijack] As for the orca, im rather curious how they plan on balancing it for high sec usage. Their going to add 4 slots that only hold stripminers, and replace the "high sec" bonuses with +5 to stripminers and a 25% bonuse to Stripmine range per Orca skill level.
procurement specialist	Posted - 2008.05.07 23:29:00 - [279] 4 new ships 1) racial bs sized industrials between current industrials and freighters 2) bs sized battle cruisers with war links for extra protection while permatanking a mining op 3) an ore industiral that requires mining barge V or a line of them that get a 10/50/90% m3 reduction in ore size as a role bonus 4) an ore bc (for protection) that fits war link's and has bonuses to mining link effectiveness (as rorq) and can fit medium tractor beams. 1 and 2 would add varieties for various pvp uses. option 3 and 4 together make ore specialty ships much more effective than normal faction varieties for mining op. They are ORE what else would they focus on for crying out loud.
ChaoticDemon	Posted - 2008.05.09 17:26:00 - [280] How about a new command exhumer Basically a hulk with 4 highslots and either same or slightly larger cargohold for exhumer bonus is able to fit 3 command links 99% reduction for command cpu use and +3% per exhumer level for mining links hulk at exhumer 5 get's 15% bonus to strips could make exhumer 5 as requirement would get command bonus but not much more mining ability then a hulk if flown solo with all strips
Vlad Dakovnovich	Posted - 2008.05.12 15:55:00 - [281] hopefully we will hear something about this in the live dev blog or soon after. I suspect that the design has been set now so we might get some details.
chanchinpin gaijai	Posted - 2008.05.12 19:31:00 - [282] Just let it get 55% resists like the Rorqual and carry enough ore to be the same as an Iteron 5 with 2 T2 and one T1 Cargo Opts and I'll be happy that I don't have to waste time on a fourth account. Miners have too much cash or ISK to compete. How about taking some of that overhead off our backs, PLEASE!
KAELA MENSHA	Posted - 2008.05.15 19:37:00 - [283] needs the hanger to be any use.packing and un packing hulks to transport to a site is a pain in the a*se.we need a high sec rorqual
kusco	Posted - 2008.05.16 05:27:00 - [284] Edited by: kusco on 16/05/2008 05:33:07 Edited by: kusco on 16/05/2008 05:29:09 Hmmm...I found all the specs on the ORCA on this latvian web site. http://eve-online.lv/photogallery.php?photo_id=44 click on the picture you'll see all skill requirements, fittings, etc. I can't verify the source or authenticity. I would appreciate any feedback. Guess I need to buy cap ships skill :?
Darth Felin	Posted - 2008.05.16 11:12:00 - [285] Originally by: kusco Edited by: kusco on 16/05/2008 05:33:07 Edited by: kusco on 16/05/2008 05:29:09 Hmmm...I found all the specs on the ORCA on this latvian web site. http://eve-online.lv/photogallery.php?photo_id=44 click on the picture you'll see all skill requirements, fittings, etc. I can't verify the source or authenticity. I would appreciate any feedback. Guess I need to buy cap ships skill :? You could see this placeholder at Singularity for some time around Trinity expansion. This is not "true" Orca stats. F.e. Devs stated that actual Orca won't have jumpdrive.
Deliceous Southern Cross Empire	Posted - 2008.05.18 08:47:00 - [286] I personally think the skills to fly the Orca should be the same as a Fleet Command ship except Mining barge skill will replace the cruiser skill. Should be able to fit 3 mining gang moduals Each level in Orca will give 3% bonus to Mining Director skill, and 10 in Mining/Damage/Hit Points of drones and 50% for small range for small tractor beam range Have 2 Low, 4 Mids, 4 Highs (No Turrets or Bays)2 hard points Drones 150m3 space and 75m3 Bandwith most ship stats should be similar to a Galliante Eos with a 25% decrease in amour and Shield totals representing that this is not a combat ship. Able to use a Compression Modual but only able to do 1 runs at a time and a cargo bay of only 10,000k (But is able to do it at 3/4 the speed of a Rorqual (smaller components are able to run faster)(able to run an industrial Mod) This will be a tech 2 item with the T1 being a covetor mining barge,
Titus Quintus	Posted - 2008.05.20 09:40:00 - [287] Originally by: Clansworth I vote for a Industrial Coordination ship: - Give it the ability to fit links, with a bonus to foreman links. This will be useful in both high-sec and 0.0, as it will give a cheaper, smaller ship to help out the gangs. - Give it either the ability to fit the capital tractor, some larger tractor (medium? large?), or a tractor range bonus. The single bigger can isn't realy all that necessary, as the foreman should be able to just pull in each miner's jetcans when full, and have them sitting there collected for the haulers to pick up. - Give it the ability to scan a much larger area. Either a new Survey scanner, or more practically, just a big boost to survey scanner range. Then the foreman can prioritize target rocks through Gang Tagging. It doens't need to compress ore, it doesn't need to have a massive hold, there just needs to be a non capital way to better organize a mining op, and this would fill that mising role. The rorqual for small mining ops is like using a sledghammer on a push pin. THIS. Every word of this. The only missing hole is a non capital way to improve mining ops. So a mining command ship with Mining gang bonuses and tractor bonusus is the way to go. (It also needs to be able to tank belt rats, but any CS should be able to do that)
quickshot89 Caldari	Posted - 2008.05.20 22:48:00 - [288] i still dont get why the orca cant use strip miners? its a subcapital ship but it could at least have a single specific module to mine with
Roland Torq	Posted - 2008.05.21 06:16:00 - [289] Edited by: Roland Torq on 21/05/2008 06:23:38 Edited by: Roland Torq on 21/05/2008 06:18:55 Orca Mini-Cap Ship Theory -Small maintenance bay (room for say a hulk or two) -Decent size cargo hold (perhaps ability to put Cargo Rigs onto it) -to solve the problem of the jump capability question I radically suggest keeping the Jump Capabilities on it, but it can't use cynos naturally due to it being an empire ship or could use cynos in the same way jump freighters do. But for those systems without stations would be the only systems it could remotely jump into perhaps? (the specifics on how that would work out would have to be dev discussed). -The main up side to the orca would be in systems/areas/constellations without a station for one or multiple systems away so for that reason I'd love to see it be able to hold quite a sizeable amount of ore and be able to somehow jump just a few systems...(not more than say 3 to restrict it becoming a mini freighter for trips to jita i geuss). -Or perhaps the ability to somehow work with a freighter to transfer it's ore cargo directly into a freighter would make the mining in the systems without stations actualy become more attractive to empire players. -no clone vat bay (though that ability would make it easier for moving around in empire but the clone vat bay should stay on cap ships in 0.0 to be honest) -no ship maintenance bay (would become used for other purposes than mining if it had that) -bonuses similar to the Rorqual but perhaps tuned down to a small degree since it is an empire based ship (though i could see it becoming somewhat used in lowsec) in the end I do not see the ship being very useful in station systems but in systems with no station access for jumps around this is where the ship would come in most handy so please put some consideration on that devs.) radical idea- Make it like the mini brother ship to the rorqual...literally...meaning that if say a player had been in empire for a long time and got into the 0.0 scene that player could say upgrade it to the rorqual via POS in 0.0/lowsec* So in the end I wish the devs luck with the development of the ship, I am glad for the thought of helping us empire miners out but I just hope it's uses are based for station-less systems.
Jonak	Posted - 2008.05.24 17:46:00 - [290] It would be nice to at least know what skills we will need for the ship.
Polly Prissypantz	Posted - 2008.05.25 21:45:00 - [291] It needs laser beams... Strapped to it's back fin... Orca's with frikkin laser beams.
Philip Stark	Posted - 2008.05.26 06:25:00 - [292] This is the role I can see the orca playing. Its not some uber miner, or hauler. It needs to be able to use all three of the command mods for mining. This is the mining directors platform we are talking about. Maybe one more high slot for a Tractor beam. Let it be able to use the Cap Tractor beam. This way It can bring all the jet cans to one central spot for the haulers instead of them moving all around trying to find full cans. Id say 4 highs, 4 med, 3 low slots, 17500 cargo, a decent ammout of shields, armor, and structure for a small cap ship. If needs be it doesnt really have to be a capital ship, if people think the macro miners will abuse it. Make it a special command ship or Tech 2 battleship from Ore thats used in directing mining ops, That way the skill requirements are pretty high, and anyone that isnt looking to be a director of a mining op wont really want to use it.
Sir Substance	Posted - 2008.05.28 01:18:00 - [293] i think that we should be looking at a slot layout of 5, 6 if we want a compression module. that way it can fit all three links, a TB and a savager. a nice even low-med slot layout so people can fit armor or shield tanks, depending on what else they want on their ship. bonus to tractor beams and to mining links.
Pwett QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.05.28 15:52:00 - [294] I'd be tempted to not give these ships tanks so that they remain moderately vulnerable in high-sec; like a freighter. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
pilotofdoom	Posted - 2008.06.03 15:50:00 - [295] I agree that the Orca should fit gang mods and even possibly have an ability to mine. But if it going to be used in small to mid-size gangs- around 6 people or so, then something needs to make it more worthwhile than just having another hulk mining. It would also need to be better than a vulture loaded with 2 gang mods, a tractor beam, 4 Miner IIs, and drones. I think it should have large cargohold, large enough for at least a jet can worth- that way haulers can simply warp to the Orca to pick up minerals and to prevent can-flippers. However, to prevent the Orca of becoming simply a mini-freighter, the cargohold cannot be too big. The Orca should also give a bonus to tractor beam distance, to help gather the cans.
little sis At Swords' Points	Posted - 2008.06.03 16:24:00 - [296] Originally by: Clansworth I vote for a Industrial Coordination ship: - Give it the ability to fit links, with a bonus to foreman links. This will be useful in both high-sec and 0.0, as it will give a cheaper, smaller ship to help out the gangs. - Give it either the ability to fit the capital tractor, some larger tractor (medium? large?), or a tractor range bonus. The single bigger can isn't realy all that necessary, as the foreman should be able to just pull in each miner's jetcans when full, and have them sitting there collected for the haulers to pick up. - Give it the ability to scan a much larger area. Either a new Survey scanner, or more practically, just a big boost to survey scanner range. Then the foreman can prioritize target rocks through Gang Tagging. It doens't need to compress ore, it doesn't need to have a massive hold, there just needs to be a non capital way to better organize a mining op, and this would fill that mising role. The rorqual for small mining ops is like using a sledghammer on a push pin. This is the best idea. ----------------------------------------------- Name the can game at Name the can app
Pwett QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.06.03 16:34:00 - [297] Sorry, it needs to compress ore. Period. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
little sis At Swords' Points	Posted - 2008.06.03 17:28:00 - [298] Originally by: Pwett Sorry, it needs to compress ore. Period. then you need to fly to a .4 system and use capital ships. It just needs to be the command ship for miners. ----------------------------------------------- Name the can game at Name the can app
Pwett QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.06.03 17:34:00 - [299] I'm not going to start this argument again. As a high-sec miner, you'll make far more money if you can compress your high-sec ore to sell to the people who need to get it to 0.0, at a premium. It's only a matter of time before CCP completely negates all viable module compression. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
little sis At Swords' Points	Posted - 2008.06.03 17:42:00 - [300] Originally by: Pwett I'm not going to start this argument again. As a high-sec miner, you'll make far more money if you can compress your high-sec ore to sell to the people who need to get it to 0.0, at a premium. It's only a matter of time before CCP completely negates all viable module compression. Setp 1. mine in high sec. step 2. Refine in high sec. (better than compression) step 3. fly to low sec. and jump to 0.0 system. Note: same steps that you want to do (except waste more fuel). ----------------------------------------------- Name the can game at Name the can app
Pwett QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.06.03 17:49:00 - [301] compress veldspar maybe? Have you ever tried moving 500 million trit into 0.0? Right now we can still compress it into modules and move it, but as I said, module compression's days are numbered. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Marcus Tedric Tedric Enterprises The Star League	Posted - 2008.06.04 07:43:00 - [302] Originally by: Pwett I'm not going to start this argument again. As a high-sec miner, you'll make far more money if you can compress your high-sec ore to sell to the people who need to get it to 0.0, at a premium. It's only a matter of time before CCP completely negates all viable module compression. If I were a betting avatar then no, I'm sure the lovely Devs won't have it doing any Ore Compression - there's just no need for it in High Sec. And the 0.0 Customers are NOT interested in buying Scord or Veld at a 'premium' - so even less need!
Boombastica Majority 13	Posted - 2008.06.04 09:15:00 - [303] Edited by: Boombastica on 04/06/2008 09:14:58 Originally by: Marcus Tedric If I were a betting avatar then no, I'm sure the lovely Devs won't have it doing any Ore Compression - there's just no need for it in High Sec. I fail to agree with you here. I see the role for an ore compression ship, since there are many high sec systems without a (refining) station.
Pwett QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.06.04 14:51:00 - [304] Originally by: Marcus Tedric And the 0.0 Customers are NOT interested in buying Scord or Veld at a 'premium' - so even less need! Want to bet? There are a few IPOs that do nothing but sell compressed trit in modules at a premium, and they do VERY well. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Mensche	Posted - 2008.06.04 18:24:00 - [305] It may be easier to just make a mining command ship. Having the orca be a battlecruiser hull means it can already travel in empire, etc. and doesn't have the 0.0 addons that u want to strip off anyway (clone vat, siege module, etc.) Since you'd be in highsec anyway, there's not as much need to compress for transport when you can just dump at an NPC station. Then just make an industrial command ship skill, with maybe mining barge V and exhumer V instead of the racial cruiser and bc skill. Then just give it a bonus to tractors and mining skill per level instead of weapons. then give it turrets so the operator has something to do like use mining lasers or help repel gankers with guns. Hopefully no one else said this :)
Pwett QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.06.05 14:46:00 - [306] you need to break out of your paradigms here. In 0.0, you compress while you mine to get minerals TO the station. In High-sec, you compress while you mine to get minerals OUT of high-sec. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Vlad Dakovnovich	Posted - 2008.06.06 09:04:00 - [307] I notice the Orca is not in the patch notes for the up coming patch, very disapointed
Axaeli Shadewraith Cargo and Industry	Posted - 2008.06.23 01:07:00 - [308] So it's been about 8 months since Chronotis tipped us off that they were thinking about the Orca. Any chance this thing will ever see the light of day? Or at least more details than it's name? There's been lots of suggestions in all kinds of directions here, anything near the mark?
Stefan F Enrave Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.06.25 10:11:00 - [309] No it will not come. Get into 0.0 and buy a rorqual if you want to compress ore.

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2008.06.25 10:55:00 - [310] it is actively being worked on and most definitely not forgotten about, currently we hope to see the orca delivered in the winter expansion which will be a good time for industrialists everywhere . It is too soon to talk about the orca in depth just yet but we think it will certainly fill the big gap between the industrials and freighters adequately and that is as much as I am prepared to say about its concept as the rest needs to wait until we are further down the pipeline first.

4IROW Aliastra	Posted - 2008.06.25 11:18:00 - [311] Originally by: CCP Chronotis it is actively being worked on and most definitely not forgotten about, currently we hope to see the orca delivered in the winter expansion which will be a good time for industrialists everywhere . It is too soon to talk about the orca in depth just yet but we think it will certainly fill the big gap between the industrials and freighters adequately and that is as much as I am prepared to say about its concept as the rest needs to wait until we are further down the pipeline first. sounds great! :D
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.06.26 05:03:00 - [312] Originally by: CCP Chronotis it is actively being worked on and most definitely not forgotten about, currently we hope to see the orca delivered in the winter expansion which will be a good time for industrialists everywhere . It is too soon to talk about the orca in depth just yet but we think it will certainly fill the big gap between the industrials and freighters adequately and that is as much as I am prepared to say about its concept as the rest needs to wait until we are further down the pipeline first. What I would really appreciate is at least a line on the skills required. I have a 50 Mill SP industrialist character, and if he needs some things to fly Orca properly would love to have info on it.
Inoga Deh'saelnu	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:01:00 - [313] I had an idea about what the Orca should have... Even the Rorqual really... They should have a Mining Transport Link Laser... Since mining barges can get rock with a laser why can it not be transported via laser... Having an Orca or Rorqual present means that the Barges can be targeted by the Rorqual and as they mine to their cargo the rorqual automatically takes from the cargo to its "reserve hangar" or whereever the ore goes as it waits for compression. Might be to carebearish for the can flippers... but its an idea. Could just be a module... that has to be activated... so the Rorqual / Orca pilot really has to be on the ball... stopping and starting it on the different barges as they cycle... The barges themselves may have to be timed so that they are all not cycling at the same time... just something to think about. ~CS
chanchinpin gaijai	Posted - 2008.06.29 12:11:00 - [314] Edited by: chanchinpin gaijai on 29/06/2008 12:13:22 Edited by: chanchinpin gaijai on 29/06/2008 12:12:13 Originally by: CCP Chronotis it is actively being worked on and most definitely not forgotten about, currently we hope to see the orca delivered in the winter expansion which will be a good time for industrialists everywhere . It is too soon to talk about the orca in depth just yet but we think it will certainly fill the big gap between the industrials and freighters adequately and that is as much as I am prepared to say about its concept as the rest needs to wait until we are further down the pipeline first. Please, make sure that it can actively haul in belts and that it can provide bonuses equal to that of a BC/Command Ship. Many are looking forward to a sound solution for having too many accounts. Consolidating one character into a hauling and bonus role would allow for a good means of running a three-character solo program (This would consist of two miners and a hauler/director). This would bring your intermediate industrialist within reach of those currently dual-boxing their four accounts to run the same roles, as many PCs/connections can run three instances of the client, but four is just impossible for many. One realizes this could open the door for those running two PCs to utilize three mining ships and the Orca, but it would remove the limitation currently imposed on many running only one. Many 0.0 industrialists already run the three or four account setups utilizing the Rorqual. This drastically increases their productivity creating an even larger gap between high-end and low-end ores. The benefits of mining high-end should be that one is mining better ore, not that one can fly a better program.
Marlenus Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage	Posted - 2008.06.30 18:22:00 - [315] Although multi-boxing is a fact of any MMORPG, I for one think that changing the game design to reward it or increase its efficiency is a bad idea. Once a game gets to where you "have" to multi-box in order to be competitive, things get ugly fast for single-box players. IMO the single-boxer should be the only constituent in the design paradigm.
Pextrin Minmatar Immhotod Shipyards United Defence Council	Posted - 2008.06.30 18:40:00 - [316] 1. 27500 M3 space with those compactor things. 2. Bonuses to fleet members in same system. 3. Captial Tractor 4. Ship Maintance Array Thing (Allowing a hulk or 2 to repair if not able to tank rats (ya right).)
Aiko Onhurbaccalaught	Posted - 2008.07.01 09:07:00 - [317] Edited by: Aiko Onhurbaccalaught on 01/07/2008 09:09:35 Originally by: Marlenus Although multi-boxing is a fact of any MMORPG, I for one think that changing the game design to reward it or increase its efficiency is a bad idea. Once a game gets to where you "have" to multi-box in order to be competitive, things get ugly fast for single-box players. IMO the single-boxer should be the only constituent in the design paradigm. I'm sorry but it already exists for those who mine; especially for those who mine their production minerals. If you are a solo miner you're broken. Good luck mining for 8-20 hours and having a dedicated buddy along side you to haul. If you're trying to actually compete in the produced goods market for noticible profit you need to be able to mine at about the rate of two Hulks so you can keep a fair quantity of a large assortment of goods on the market. Not to mention having two manufacturing characters is just as valid. In so many cases you must have multiple accounts as an industrialist. Its the only way to compete in today's market -- although nothing can help us from items sold 5% under build cost.
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.07.01 15:19:00 - [318] Originally by: Inoga Deh'saelnu I had an idea about what the Orca should have... Even the Rorqual really... They should have a Mining Transport Link Laser... Since mining barges can get rock with a laser why can it not be transported via laser... Having an Orca or Rorqual present means that the Barges can be targeted by the Rorqual and as they mine to their cargo the rorqual automatically takes from the cargo to its "reserve hangar" or whereever the ore goes as it waits for compression. ~CS I'm sorry, but this is the BEST idea ever. E-V-E-R. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Transmaniacon Strike-Force-Alpha	Posted - 2008.07.01 15:34:00 - [319] I think the ore transfer link would be a very cool idea. The Orca could get a bonus to its range, although it would elminate the jet-can from mining. Maybe if only the orca could fit that module, otherwise every hauler would be parked with one of those on, laughing at pirates. Things I would like to see in this Orca: + Ability to use all 3 mining foreman gang mods, and possibly a bonus to their effectiveness. + Large cargo hold, something on the order of 20,000 m3 or more, before fitting ofcourse. It shouldnt be nearly as big as the rorquals cargohold, but enough that it could hold 3 or more jetcans worth of ore. + A new tractor beam variant, and possibly a cargo-scanner bonus, so the Orca pilot can monitor jet-can ore levels, and tractor in as needed.
Ford Hakata Hakata Group Blade.	Posted - 2008.07.04 00:43:00 - [320] Edited by: Ford Hakata on 04/07/2008 00:46:55 I don't see the point in having a "mini-me" version of the Rorq. As it is today, the Rorq isn't a spectacularly useful ship, but if we add CCP's ideas about the replacements for the current asteroid belts (e.g. explorable belts, comets, system-wide asteroid belts) to this discussion, maybe it could be a little more interesting? Would be sensible to give the Orca and Rorqual scanning bonuses for finding asteroid belts with certain ore? E.g. the Orca gets a hefty bonus for finding low-end ores, and the Rorq for finding high-ends - making the mid-ends a bit harder to find and as consequence perhaps a little more valuable. And to destinguish the Rorq more, give it a module that can set up a grid-sized deadspace field when it fires up the industrial core, making MWDs useless and makes any ship warping to that grid end up right on top of the Rorq. That would at least open up the possibility for some interesting countertactics against roaming gangs. --
Camaro Gallente The Iron Hand United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2008.07.04 14:20:00 - [321] IF the orca was gonna get a "transfer link" it would have to be a gang bonus. Or else i will just park one of those on my alt, and target every miner in the belt :D Free Snickers to those that dare to edit my signature.
Sir Substance Minmatar Sunspot Requisitions Worlds End Consortium	Posted - 2008.07.04 14:44:00 - [322] Originally by: Camaro IF the orca was gonna get a "transfer link" it would have to be a gang bonus. Or else i will just park one of those on my alt, and target every miner in the belt :D BEST use EVER of the BEST idea EVER! Originally by: Ekrid Edited by: Ekrid on 02/07/2008 14:33:35 because trying to fit medium beam lasers is like trying to shove a cow in your mailbox. doable, but it gets messy.
Morgan Lorus Caldari Aki'na Mining Corp The Omni Federation	Posted - 2008.07.04 15:54:00 - [323] Originally by: Ford Hakata Edited by: Ford Hakata on 04/07/2008 00:46:55 I don't see the point in having a "mini-me" version of the Rorq. As it is today, the Rorq isn't a spectacularly useful ship, but if we add CCP's ideas about the replacements for the current asteroid belts (e.g. explorable belts, comets, system-wide asteroid belts) to this discussion, maybe it could be a little more interesting? Would be sensible to give the Orca and Rorqual scanning bonuses for finding asteroid belts with certain ore? E.g. the Orca gets a hefty bonus for finding low-end ores, and the Rorq for finding high-ends - making the mid-ends a bit harder to find and as consequence perhaps a little more valuable. And to destinguish the Rorq more, give it a module that can set up a grid-sized deadspace field when it fires up the industrial core, making MWDs useless and makes any ship warping to that grid end up right on top of the Rorq. That would at least open up the possibility for some interesting countertactics against roaming gangs. Seems you didnt read the first post, the Orca will be a "High-Sec" Ship. And btw. the Rorqual is usefull. A mining director in a BC/Commandship can boost a miners per minute yield by 48.3% and in Rorqual by 60%.
Jaden Icer Gallente Icerian Technologies	Posted - 2008.07.05 18:39:00 - [324] Quote: And btw. the Rorqual is usefull. A mining director in a BC/Commandship can boost a miners per minute yield by 48.3% and in Rorqual by 60%. Can you explain this one to me, cause I don't see how you are getting this math.
Morgan Lorus Caldari Aki'na Mining Corp The Omni Federation	Posted - 2008.07.05 19:26:00 - [325] Edited by: Morgan Lorus on 05/07/2008 19:27:09 ok..... : lets say our Mining Director got: Mining Foreman Level 5 Mining Director Level 5 Warfare Link Specialist Level 5 Cybernetics Level 5 Capital Industrial Level 5 and a Mindlink the example: The MD boosts a Hulk with a mining yield of 4200m¦ per 3 minutes cycle. 4200m¦ + 15% Mining Foreman Bonus = 4830m¦ Cycle time decreases in a BS/Commandship by 22.5% with the above listed skills, (4830m¦/(180sec.-22.5%=139.5))180= 6232m¦ per 3 minutes, ((100/4200)6232)= 48.3% boost and in a Rorqual the cycle time decreases by 28.125%, (4830m¦/(180sec.-28.125%=129.375))180= 6720m¦ per 3 minutes, ((100/4200)6720)= 60% boost
Ford Hakata Hakata Group Blade.	Posted - 2008.07.06 11:36:00 - [326] Originally by: Morgan Lorus Seems you didnt read the first post, the Orca will be a "High-Sec" Ship. So what? The "mini-me" Orca is still a boring concept... Sure, it can be "useful" in the way that a T2 mining laser is "useful" compared to a T1 one (increased yield,) but I'd rather see something done with the ships so that my play experience gets improved. Originally by: Morgan Lorus And btw. the Rorqual is usefull. A mining director in a BC/Commandship can boost a miners per minute yield by 48.3% and in Rorqual by 60%. Yeah, it means that a mining op can finish a few minutes earlier. Minutes I can use to go visit my friends for a few extra laughs, or minutes I could use to sleep a little extra. Yay again. I say make entire play experience more fun, not just more "time-efficient". --
SiKong Ma Imperial Noob Mercs	Posted - 2008.07.07 08:27:00 - [327] Originally by: CCP Chronotis it is actively being worked on and most definitely not forgotten about, currently we hope to see the orca delivered in the winter expansion which will be a good time for industrialists everywhere . It is too soon to talk about the orca in depth just yet but we think it will certainly fill the big gap between the industrials and freighters adequately and that is as much as I am prepared to say about its concept as the rest needs to wait until we are further down the pipeline first. Regarding this statement, it means that the Orca will be the freighter's little cousin instead of the Rorqual? In that case, wouldn't it be better to have a new class of ships (called the cargo haulers or something) and have 4 different models of ships, one for each faction instead of having it under ORE. Increasing the number of models of ships will make the game more vibrant and interesting. On the other side, the original ORE model of the Orca be made THE little cousin of the Rorqual. I believe this will make all the haulers and miners happy as we all get new toys to play with not to mention more eye-candies at the undocks of Jita! "Master, to be or not to be... what's the next phrase?" "That is the question" "But that's my question!" "zzzz... AFK"
ByFstugan Northern Shadowrunners Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.07 15:13:00 - [328] This ship could either be good as two ships, an Mining Command Ship from ORE and a specialized freighter for ore, in my opinion. The "Big brother", the Rorqual, is such in it¦s low-sec version - it got both mining boosts and takes the heavy burden of extremelly massive m3 of ore to transport to a station to refine. So, my suggestion is kinda: #1) Make it with mining boosts as a Command ship (add warfare link specialist 4 to requirements as other command ships has), and an extra 3% to Mining Foreman Gang links with a "Can use 3 Gang Link modules simultaneously". #2) Give it an Logistics bonus to range on shield transfers (not capitals?) #3) Give it a good bonus to Tractor beams (100% or even 200%) - so no Capital tractor beam. #4) Instead of packing ore, just give it a huge cargo (at least 250K m3) for uncompressed ore. * This cargo could be an special cargo only for ore, that exist beside an regular cargo. Otherwise it¦s cargo could be restricted to ore only. 5) Give it similar role bonuses as the Rorqual except for the Clone Vat Bay option. This makes it function as an empire-version of the Rorqual when it both boosts and help logistics, without stealing the Rorqual role in whole. It also can be used in 0.0 to help logistics there from belt to a POS. An alternative: The downside with this is that it¦s primary made to be an empire-version of the Rorqual, and I have hard finding it fit into the Capital Industrial Ships since I think it should only need some levels on Advanced Spaceship Command and not all the way up to level 5 and also need the Capital Ships skill. Hence it would need a new cathegory or just be squesed in there anyhow - if not the Capital Ship 1 should be required. Perhaps a better solution would be two new ships: 1) An ORE Command ship (with a whole new hull) and some logistics bonuses maybe (#1-2 above). Also with some scanning bonuses of course. 2) An new model under Freighters that¦s ore-specialized from ORE, with posibility to to fitting (tractorbeam is a must, so #3-4 above). _______________________________ The wise knows what he knows not.
Gordonh PROGENITOR CORPORATION Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.07.08 11:59:00 - [329] I'd actually like to see a new set of 3 hulls, with T1 and T2 variants. T1 Prober - frig size - bonus to scan res/times (for exploration rather than ship scanning) Salvager - cruiser size - extra high slots, bonus to salvage chances Mining Boost - BC size - fits a single ganglink (3% bonus to mining links) T2 Prober - same as T1 with better tank and bonuses to the hacking/code breaking Salvager - same as T1 with better tank, bonuses to salvager/tractor range and speeds Mining Boost - same as T1 with better tank (able to be the tank for a mining op?) and able to fit 3 ganglinks (3% bonus to mining links) I think this would fill a number of holes in the current ships ranges available.
Slanty McGarglefist	Posted - 2008.07.08 12:41:00 - [330] So when can we expect something like this to come around? The idea is most interesting to me. Quick question though, will this be geared more towards highsec corps than an industrial individual? __________________________________________________ Originally by: CCP Wrangler No Doh!
Jali Prince Minmatar Dark Entropy.	Posted - 2008.07.08 12:53:00 - [331] I just wants it soooooon ccp..... Dark Entropy What's your poison? Life is chocolate
Transmaniacon Strike-Force-Alpha	Posted - 2008.07.08 14:42:00 - [332] Originally by: Slanty McGarglefist Edited by: Slanty McGarglefist on 08/07/2008 12:49:54 So when can we expect something like this to come around? The idea is most interesting to me. Quick question though, will this be geared more towards highsec corps than an industrious individual? Well it has been described as the rorquals little brother, and the rorqual has gang link bonuses, meaning you need a gang. And since this ship wont be a mining ship, you will need others to boost, so yes, this will probably be used in corporations as a mining command ship (what I assume it will be, no details yet though...). I know I am looking forward to this, and will probably train for one when it comes out, as its nice us miners get a new toy that doesnt have to be used in low/null sec.
AngelOfSparta	Posted - 2008.07.09 03:20:00 - [333] One big plus about having the Orca, is that the Empire mining industry would really sky-rocket. Since many 0.0 people would begin importing some of the lower end ores, the demand would probably increase. This would spur a lot of the newer corps to increase and really develop. A boom on empire markets would be nice, in all reality.
Rebunus Troth Caldari Trader's Academy	Posted - 2008.07.09 06:01:00 - [334] Originally by: AngelOfSparta One big plus about having the Orca, is that the Empire mining industry would really sky-rocket. Since many 0.0 people would begin importing some of the lower end ores, the demand would probably increase. This would spur a lot of the newer corps to increase and really develop. A boom on empire markets would be nice, in all reality. Why would you believe that? The volume going out of empire is already there. People offer compression services to get minerals out and this would only help to cut them out of the picture. If anything this will be an additional deflationary component because you'll have both real players as well as macroers that are now receiving near double the ore they were via bonuses as well as having reduced haul time. Eve needs less supply and more demand and this is a step in the wrong direction.
Apoq Surreq	Posted - 2008.07.10 01:48:00 - [335] Originally by: Slanty McGarglefist Edited by: Slanty McGarglefist on 08/07/2008 12:49:54 So when can we expect something like this to come around? The idea is most interesting to me. Quick question though, will this be geared more towards highsec corps than an industrious individual? CCP make a ship that supports ANY style of solo play?? You gotta be dreamin, CCP hates solo players and always has.
Immersive Immersive Technology Solutions	Posted - 2008.07.10 04:11:00 - [336] My preferences: 5 High slots. 4 Medium slots. 3 Low slots. 0 Turret hardpoints. 0 Missile hardpoints. 50% bonus to Tractor beam range per level (makes it 70km at level 5). Reduction in fitting reqs for Shield Transfer/remote armor reps (Role bonus). Reduction in fitting reqs for Gang modules (Role Bonus). Ability to fit up to 3 Gang Modules. 200m3 Drone bay, 125mb/s bandwidth. 4,000m3 Cargo bay. 200,000m3 Corp Hangar Array. Maneuverability similar to that of a freighter. Skills: Leadership 5. Mining Barge 5. Battle Cruiser 4. --- New to the API? GrabRaw XML It's coming...
Mika Meroko Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc	Posted - 2008.07.10 05:28:00 - [337] Edited by: Mika Meroko on 10/07/2008 05:29:58 as long as its huge and transforms into an upright position!!!! I am happy... edit: wow.... just wow, I cant believe I said that... hides but yeah, compression with modules is something CCP wants to get rid of... so, is only natural they give us our compression ships... and yes, i am one of those people who have scrap metal processing trained to lvl 4 =P and get perfect recycling =P Originally by: CCP Atropos I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
Transmaniacon Strike-Force-Alpha	Posted - 2008.07.10 12:09:00 - [338] Originally by: Immersive My preferences: 5 High slots. 4 Medium slots. 3 Low slots. 0 Turret hardpoints. 0 Missile hardpoints. 50% bonus to Tractor beam range per level (makes it 70km at level 5). Reduction in fitting reqs for Shield Transfer/remote armor reps (Role bonus). Reduction in fitting reqs for Gang modules (Role Bonus). Ability to fit up to 3 Gang Modules. 200m3 Drone bay, 125mb/s bandwidth. 4,000m3 Cargo bay. 200,000m3 Corp Hangar Array. Maneuverability similar to that of a freighter. Skills: Leadership 5. Mining Barge 5. Battle Cruiser 4. I like this, though I think it needs a much higher skill set. Possibly some more leadership skills, and I dont think they will base it off of a battlecruiser hull because we will only have one of these, and wont waste one of the current BCs, and they probably wouldnt design a new one. I think its going to be a completely new hull by ORE, so possibly Exhumers V or Some levels of advanced spaceship command. I would expect to see skill requirements on par with a marauder for this new ship.
Athamai	Posted - 2008.07.10 15:19:00 - [339] Needs ore compression. Basically a highsec Rorqual: A few drones, ore compression, mining link bonus. No Jump drive, less compression pipelines, etc. Originally by: Immersive My preferences: 5 High slots. 4 Medium slots. 3 Low slots. 0 Turret hardpoints. 0 Missile hardpoints. 50% bonus to Tractor beam range per level (makes it 70km at level 5). Reduction in fitting reqs for Shield Transfer/remote armor reps (Role bonus). Reduction in fitting reqs for Gang modules (Role Bonus). Ability to fit up to 3 Gang Modules. 200m3 Drone bay, 125mb/s bandwidth. 4,000m3 Cargo bay. 200,000m3 Corp Hangar Array. Maneuverability similar to that of a freighter. Skills: Leadership 5. Mining Barge 5. Battle Cruiser 4.
Transmaniacon Strike-Force-Alpha	Posted - 2008.07.10 15:52:00 - [340] Ore compression would be amazing, but I feel that CCP will not give this ship the ability. I forsee it being more of a "logistics freighter", with gang bonuses, large cargo-hold and possibly some of the same rorqual bonuses (tractor beams/cargo scanners). Because its going to be a high-sec ship, we have the option of using freighters safely (relatively) to transport large volumes, and don't need to rely on compression as much. However, having empire ore compression would make moving large quantities of ore into 0.0 much easier. The risk is still there, but a fully loaded Iteron V would be carrying more than a jump freighter worth of ore. This might however increase empire mineral prices. I would assume most corporations would export all that they can in empire to 0.0 for manufacturing, and it would lower the supply in empire, raising prices. Also, I wonder if the Orca would feature something similar to the industrial core, immobilizing it during compression (if it has compression abilities).
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.07.10 18:47:00 - [341] If the orca is the mini-freighter discussed in the assembly hall, then I go back to my ORIGINAL point and say that we need a high-sec anchorable POS compression module. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Clansworth Burning Sky Labs	Posted - 2008.07.11 08:54:00 - [342] Originally by: Immersive My preferences: 5 High slots. 4 Medium slots. 3 Low slots. 0 Turret hardpoints. 0 Missile hardpoints. 50% bonus to Tractor beam range per level (makes it 70km at level 5). Reduction in fitting reqs for Shield Transfer/remote armor reps (Role bonus). Reduction in fitting reqs for Gang modules (Role Bonus). Ability to fit up to 3 Gang Modules. 200m3 Drone bay, 125mb/s bandwidth. 4,000m3 Cargo bay. 200,000m3 Corp Hangar Array. Maneuverability similar to that of a freighter. Skills: Leadership 5. Mining Barge 5. Battle Cruiser 4. Need to add a 3% or 5%/level to effectiveness of mining foreman links. Also a bonus to survey scanner range would be great. Also, I'm not sure on requireing mining barge as a pre-req. I would think Mining Director instead (not V, perhaps III) would make more sense. New Prospector Class
testkyra	Posted - 2008.07.11 16:15:00 - [343] So the only problem I see here is that we keep trying to do too much with one ship. I would like to see the ORE Command ship and the ORE hauler as two separate ships. I mean for starters the gang mods go off when you warp the bounty back to the starbase... The above ship is cool as the command ship as long as it has the gang bonuses of the rorqual. But give us a 200K m3 hauler with tractor beam bonuses and enough slots to fit a good tank.
Transmaniacon Minmatar Strike-Force-Alpha	Posted - 2008.07.11 16:31:00 - [344] Yea, with this thread, and the thread started by CCP about the "Small Freighter" plans, I am beginning to think they have 2 ships in design. This one is hopefully going to be a mini-rorqual with mining bonuses, and hopefully (crosses-fingers) ore compression. While the other thread hints at something between a freighter and Industrial.
KAELA MENSHA	Posted - 2008.07.11 22:34:00 - [345] Originally by: Transmaniacon Yea, with this thread, and the thread started by CCP about the "Small Freighter" plans, I am beginning to think they have 2 ships in design. This one is hopefully going to be a mini-rorqual with mining bonuses, and hopefully (crosses-fingers) ore compression. While the other thread hints at something between a freighter and Industrial. hope they have. I the orca is nothing more than a mini freighter. Then dont bother
Tonitrus Feles	Posted - 2008.07.12 09:17:00 - [346] Originally by: Pextrin 1. 27500 M3 space with those compactor things. 2. Bonuses to fleet members in same system. 3. Captial Tractor 4. Ship Maintance Array Thing (Allowing a hulk or 2 to repair if not able to tank rats (ya right).) A hulk properly setup can tank a 0.0 rat spawn by itslef. i have done this before.
Immersive Immersive Technology Solutions	Posted - 2008.07.12 10:05:00 - [347] IMHO, the compression blueprints should be able to be used in NPC station Factory slots. --- New to the API? GrabRaw XML It's coming...
JamesWyh Jammar Industries	Posted - 2008.07.12 11:31:00 - [348] quote] A hulk properly setup can tank a 0.0 rat spawn by itslef. i have done this before. Really even a BS spawn , what sort of mods do u have on there? 0.o oooo! A Astroid!
Dantes Revenge	Posted - 2008.07.12 17:03:00 - [349] Originally by: testkyra So the only problem I see here is that we keep trying to do too much with one ship. I would like to see the ORE Command ship and the ORE hauler as two separate ships. I mean for starters the gang mods go off when you warp the bounty back to the starbase... The above ship is cool as the command ship as long as it has the gang bonuses of the rorqual. But give us a 200K m3 hauler with tractor beam bonuses and enough slots to fit a good tank. If it's the same as the Rorqual which I presume it would be, the haulers can move the stuff back to the station while the Orca stays put in the same way that the Rorqual was designed to do. There wouldn't be much point in having a ship with command bonuses and able to mount command modules if it had to dock too frequently. For this reason, it would have to have a cargo bay capable of being accessed by haulers etc, similar to the corp hangar of the Rorqual. I just hope it can still deploy into seige mode and compress ore as well, even if it does require Strontium to do it. I am already skilled to fly the Rorqual but we don't have enough firepower in our corp to have one in our lowsec ops since it would most likely be primaried due to its value. We could replace a hulk or two but a Rorqual would eat too far into our current budget. The Orca would be nice to give our highsec ops a boost for now and maybe the increased revenue would allow us to think of a Rorqual a bit sooner than we can at present. As for the macrominer debate that keeps being brought up by posters here, GIVE A FREAKIN REST WOULD YA! They have been around for a long time and unless CCP add some covert coding to uncover them, they will be around for a lot longer, (makes me wonder why so many are against the covert code idea). The industrial side has been badly neglected for some time, it's about time they got a few new toys. Why penalise a good percentage of the Eve player base by neglecting them just to make a feeble attempt at cutting macro miners profits and hope they'll get fed up and leave? Because it simply doesn't work! All it does is make the regular players get fed up and leave. -- There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken.
NetBlaise	Posted - 2008.07.12 20:44:00 - [350] Whats da deal with this topic? Is/Has CCP even read this topic or are they even going to make the ship? Its hard out here for a miner. :(. I would love to have a faction Hulk or even something else that you can mount 7 Strip Tech II lasers to. Please tell me why a missiner can make just about the same amount of isk that I make a hour? A miner/industrialist pockets should be fat all the time. We are the ones that provide the mins. for the parts/items. We are the ones that make just about everything that everyone needs to fly their pretty little ships... hehe
Mos7Wan7ed	Posted - 2008.07.12 22:41:00 - [351] mmm how about make it a T2 battleship size industrial command ship. skills equal to a command ship but requiring battleship V and industry V as well as possibly a few others. Range boosting for tractor beams and scanners. dps bonus for drones with full bs size drone bay/bandwidth mining link bonuses above what a command ship would get. fittings 4 High (4 turret 2 missile) 4 medium 4 low 3 rigs 30km3 base cargo rest of the attributes would be on par with the battleship class ships. possible setups: shield tanked then fitted and rigged for cargo capacity would make great middle ground between jump freighters and transports. armor tanked and fitted for recharge it would survive a beating equal to other command ships making it a difficult nut. the ship shouldn't have the power grid and CPU to fit large guns or large array of mining lasers. but, enough CPU and grid to fit three gang links, a t2 tank, and the necessary mods for it to preform its task, with the right support skills.
Mika Meroko Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc	Posted - 2008.07.12 22:47:00 - [352] Edited by: Mika Meroko on 12/07/2008 22:50:29 to above poster thing is.. how many dedicated miners had trained up BS 5???? I say, keep the same line of training as rorqual.... is a compression ship that we wanted anyways... is already there... and yeah, what you have there is a marauder with gang bonuses =P so yeah.. kinda like the mini-freighter they are working on... argh, yeah... we are trying to get it to do too many things.. I would stick with compression with the Orca (since its already in the database with rorqual stats... looong time ago...)... so that CCP can get rid of module compression as they said they are gonna.... and leave the loot alone. Originally by:* CCP Atropos I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
The Racketeer	Posted - 2008.07.13 00:07:00 - [353] the whole idea of selling compressed ore to 0.0 makes no sense because the bocks refined down into minerals takes less space then the blocks them selfs. mineral compression will never happen. YES you do need a massive cargo hold to compress ore otherwise you would not have enough cargo to compress even 1 block at a time. A rorqual with its 4 manufacturing lanes can actively be compressing 480k m3 of ore at the same time. the smallest job you can create is a single block that takes 20k m3 of cargo space. So.. you need a minimum of 20k m3 of the same ore sub type to start a compression job. you aren't going to be compressing ore in the belts anyhow. its impossible to manage your miners in such a way that it would work. You need 20k m3 of a curtain ore sub-type, and while you have a mining op actively stripping a belt bringing in 3-4 different ore types each having 3 sub types, you'll never get 20k m3 of a certain subtype to start the compression process. you cant do it. witch is why in 0.0 Rorquals don't sit in a belt and compress ore as it comes in. Even when rigged with 126k M3 cargo holds it doesn't work. Rorquals compress ore at the end of an Op from a corporate hanger floating at a POS. As for the bonus Rorquals receive.. Rorquals aren't even online or piloted during mining Ops. unless you have a full set of links, bonuses maxed out, and a set of implants and 10+ t2 fit hulks in belt. normally the bonuses you give out doesn't equal the Rorqual pilot sitting in a hulk himself.
Marcus Tedric Gallente Tedric Enterprises The Star League	Posted - 2008.07.13 10:37:00 - [354] Originally by: The Racketeer ...... As for the bonus Rorquals receive.. Rorquals aren't even online or piloted during mining Ops. unless you have a full set of links, bonuses maxed out, and a set of implants and 10+ t2 fit hulks in belt. normally the bonuses you give out doesn't equal the Rorqual pilot sitting in a hulk himself. Whilst I beleive, and have said before, that the Orca shouldn't have Mineral Compression (we have the Rorqual for that) - on this I believe you are wrong and should do the maths again. A Rorqual, once you have 2 Hulks in gang, is VERY worthwhile
jamaican herbs	Posted - 2008.07.14 18:35:00 - [355] to racketeer: veldspar, scordite, plagioclase and pyroxeres takes more room refined into minerals than compressed. Plagi and pyro compressed arent important in my opinion, since the difference compressed/refined m¦-wisely isnt as good as with veldspar and scordite. Veldspar, amount to compress one block 16650m¦ --> compressed 417m¦ --> refined 5000m¦, so refined it takes almost 12 times more room than compressed. With scordite it takes almost 10 times more room.
Dantes Revenge Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.15 05:25:00 - [356] Originally by: The Racketeer you aren't going to be compressing ore in the belts anyhow. its impossible to manage your miners in such a way that it would work. You need 20k m3 of a curtain ore sub-type, and while you have a mining op actively stripping a belt bringing in 3-4 different ore types each having 3 sub types, you'll never get 20k m3 of a certain subtype to start the compression process. you cant do it. witch is why in 0.0 Rorquals don't sit in a belt and compress ore as it comes in. Even when rigged with 126k M3 cargo holds it doesn't work. Rorquals compress ore at the end of an Op from a corporate hanger floating at a POS. Whilst you statement hold some truth, miners that are managed correctly can, and will, allow you to compress at the belt. Miners who are managed to mine certain ore types in turn will provide larger quantities of the ore required for compression. If all your miners are mining Veld, you will get three types at most on each delivery. Only during the change-over will you obtain more variants but if your miners are told to mine ore in a specific order, your belt compression plans can be quite realistic. IMHO, belts are not large enough for large scale ops anyway. 3 or 4 hulks with good gang bonuses can strip a belt clean in no time at all. The very size of the belts already gimps the Rorquals ability to deliver a good bonus to the miners. The last part of your statement is very true in that respect, it usually is more efficient to have the pilot in a Hulk giving skill and possibly implant bonuses and benefitting from them as well rather than in a Rorqual. -- There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken.
Athamai	Posted - 2008.07.15 18:23:00 - [357] A freighter+command ship would be pretty worthless. Who is going to dock the mining command ship (or even warp it): You lose the bonuses. The Rorqual is a good design already and it's needed in highsec. Sit in one place, provide bonuses, tractor cans, compress ore for shipment. The 'stepping stone' between freighter & indy is fulfilled by ore compression. Originally by: Transmaniacon Ore compression would be amazing, but I feel that CCP will not give this ship the ability. I forsee it being more of a "logistics freighter", with gang bonuses, large cargo-hold and possibly some of the same rorqual bonuses (tractor beams/cargo scanners). Because its going to be a high-sec ship, we have the option of using freighters safely (relatively) to transport large volumes, and don't need to rely on compression as much. However, having empire ore compression would make moving large quantities of ore into 0.0 much easier. The risk is still there, but a fully loaded Iteron V would be carrying more than a jump freighter worth of ore. This might however increase empire mineral prices. I would assume most corporations would export all that they can in empire to 0.0 for manufacturing, and it would lower the supply in empire, raising prices. Also, I wonder if the Orca would feature something similar to the industrial core, immobilizing it during compression (if it has compression abilities).
Athamai	Posted - 2008.07.15 18:41:00 - [358] ===Ore Compression: Keep the ore types in Jetcans near the Orca/Rorqual. Put that required ore in the hold when you're ready to compress then dump it in another can for a hauler. Orca is ideal for systems _without stations_ in Highsec... There are plenty of those. ===Mining bonuses from a Hulk: Foreman bonus maximum from a Hulk: 10% Foreman bonus maximum from a command ship: 41.94%(max skills + implant) Assuming all hulks are equal: Hulks Hulks mining Hulks Mining In equiv with with +1 Hulk Team +command ship (+10% Bonus) 1 1.41 2.2 2 2.83 3.3 3 4.25 4.4 4 5.67 5.5 So if you have 3 hulks a command ship(or Orca) would be superior in yield. Also you wouldn't have to move and could hit all asteroids in each belt so you're probably better off even if you start with 2 hulks due to movement. Originally by: Dantes Revenge Originally by: The Racketeer you aren't going to be compressing ore in the belts anyhow. its impossible to manage your miners in such a way that it would work. You need 20k m3 of a curtain ore sub-type, and while you have a mining op actively stripping a belt bringing in 3-4 different ore types each having 3 sub types, you'll never get 20k m3 of a certain subtype to start the compression process. you cant do it. witch is why in 0.0 Rorquals don't sit in a belt and compress ore as it comes in. Even when rigged with 126k M3 cargo holds it doesn't work. Rorquals compress ore at the end of an Op from a corporate hanger floating at a POS. Whilst you statement hold some truth, miners that are managed correctly can, and will, allow you to compress at the belt. Miners who are managed to mine certain ore types in turn will provide larger quantities of the ore required for compression. If all your miners are mining Veld, you will get three types at most on each delivery. Only during the change-over will you obtain more variants but if your miners are told to mine ore in a specific order, your belt compression plans can be quite realistic. IMHO, belts are not large enough for large scale ops anyway. 3 or 4 hulks with good gang bonuses can strip a belt clean in no time at all. The very size of the belts already gimps the Rorquals ability to deliver a good bonus to the miners. The last part of your statement is very true in that respect, it usually is more efficient to have the pilot in a Hulk giving skill and possibly implant bonuses and benefitting from them as well rather than in a Rorqual.
Transmaniacon Minmatar Strike-Force-Alpha	Posted - 2008.07.15 18:46:00 - [359] Maybe as a compromise, this Orca could feature ore compression, but make it less efficient. Give it an industrial core as well that it must be in siege mode to use, but make it a watered down version that is not as efficient as the more powerful rorqual variant. Ore compression could be a quarter what it is, instead of 20:1 on mid to high end ores, make it 5:1, and 10:1 on the lower end ores. This would allow them to avoid making a "small freighter" because it would allow an industrial to carry more. This would also keep the rorqual from being replaced because it will have the superior compression.
Incipus	Posted - 2008.07.15 18:53:00 - [360] Not required. Why not just make it not work on the 0.0 ores? It should be able to fully compress veldspar. Originally by: Transmaniacon Maybe as a compromise, this Orca could feature ore compression, but make it less efficient. Give it an industrial core as well that it must be in siege mode to use, but make it a watered down version that is not as efficient as the more powerful rorqual variant. Ore compression could be a quarter what it is, instead of 20:1 on mid to high end ores, make it 5:1, and 10:1 on the lower end ores. This would allow them to avoid making a "small freighter" because it would allow an industrial to carry more. This would also keep the rorqual from being replaced because it will have the superior compression.
Transmaniacon Minmatar Strike-Force-Alpha	Posted - 2008.07.15 18:58:00 - [361] Originally by: Incipus Not required. Why not just make it not work on the 0.0 ores? It should be able to fully compress veldspar. This could also be a possibility, but I forsee this ship being used in low-sec as well as empire. The rorqual is a big expensive ship, I am hoping this one is more affordable, maybe around the price of a freighter, allowing it to be taken into low sec to expand mining ops there. There is so much ore in low sec that is rarely mined, and this ship might just give a corp the logistical capability to mine it, without the investment in a rorqual.
Robert Rosenberg Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.07.15 20:23:00 - [362] Originally by: Transmaniacon Originally by: Incipus Not required. Why not just make it not work on the 0.0 ores? It should be able to fully compress veldspar. This could also be a possibility, but I forsee this ship being used in low-sec as well as empire. The rorqual is a big expensive ship, I am hoping this one is more affordable, maybe around the price of a freighter, allowing it to be taken into low sec to expand mining ops there. There is so much ore in low sec that is rarely mined, and this ship might just give a corp the logistical capability to mine it, without the investment in a rorqual. The reason low-sec is undermined is because jaspet is worth 60 isk per m3, and veldspar is worth 100 isk per m3.
Transmaniacon Minmatar Strike-Force-Alpha	Posted - 2008.07.16 12:05:00 - [363] You dont have to mine Jaspet in low sec, there is veldspar there too. Granted, its a bit more dangerous, and readily available in empire, but in no where near as great a quantity.
Athamai	Posted - 2008.07.16 16:40:00 - [364] Originally by: Transmaniacon You dont have to mine Jaspet in low sec, there is veldspar there too. Granted, its a bit more dangerous, and readily available in empire, but in no where near as great a quantity. By a bit do you mean 2000% more dangerous? Same rewards, massively more risk = loss.
Transmaniacon Minmatar Strike-Force-Alpha	Posted - 2008.07.16 17:05:00 - [365] Well with fleet warfare going on, its probably a lot worse than it was. There are many fairly empty low sec areas, all full of ore. With an orca, you could have the ability to get in, get the ore, compress it (hopefully), and haul it back. Sure you would need some protection, but with scouts and a plan, avoiding danger is not hard.
Jonak Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.16 22:00:00 - [366] Originally by: CCP Chronotis it is actively being worked on and most definitely not forgotten about, currently we hope to see the orca delivered in the winter expansion which will be a good time for industrialists everywhere . It is too soon to talk about the orca in depth just yet but we think it will certainly fill the big gap between the industrials and freighters adequately and that is as much as I am prepared to say about its concept as the rest needs to wait until we are further down the pipeline first. Good to hear. But please let us know the skill requirements ASAP. I'd like to know what additional skills may be needed for it.
Banlish Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.21 12:43:00 - [367] Bump, wouldn't mind seeing more discussion on this. Atlas Head Diplomat CEO - Di-Tron Heavy Industries ~~Carebear~~ Pvper?!?!?
Shmak DatAsh Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.21 16:33:00 - [368] Banlish?? On the forums??? AHHHHHH!!!! RUN AWAY!!! hehe, Just another bump for the Orca, I really wanna see this thing happen!!!
Transmaniacon Minmatar Strike-Force-Alpha	Posted - 2008.07.21 16:36:00 - [369] Id imagine Advanced spaceship command V, probably similar leadership requirements to that of a command ship. And then the skill to perform mineral compression (should this ship have the ability).
Kikusaku bhp Mining	Posted - 2008.07.23 22:25:00 - [370] make it look better than the rorqual too, i get to see enough duct tape and rust as it is *i'm perfectly fine with duct tape and rust, it absorbs lasers well
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2008.07.24 00:27:00 - [371] need to be called... the chribbanator ________________________ I'M POOR
padraig animal Minmatar The Artisan Collective	Posted - 2008.07.24 05:42:00 - [372] I'll bump also for it . Beside that the high slots need no miners just able to fit 3 + links . Reduction in fitting for Gang modules. Perhaps even some extra bonus for mining Perhaps some bonus to shield ,compression would be nice but it's mostly a high sec boat so have my doubts about that . Also about deploying it the same way like the Rorqual . Slot layout 7 high no turret / missile hardpoints. Mid 5 low 4 Well whatever as give us that ship
Patty Loveless	Posted - 2008.07.24 17:44:00 - [373] The stats should be consistent with Tier II Battle cruisers (the Myrm would be the perfect base imho), with bonuses for links, drone damage and control range, and maybe shield transfer range. No matter how you look at it, if it doesn't have compression, its gonna be useless. Scale back the compression to 50% of the pipelines (for 50% heavy water cost) A moderate cargohold would be nice (maybe the equiv of a Iteron III) Just don't make it some solo-mining platform. Drone bonuses should not effect mining drones, it should not have any mining yield bonuses. One link slot is good enough, you want, 3 links, get a rorq.
quickshot89 Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.24 18:36:00 - [374] why should it need such huge requirements, it shoul be filling the role between a transport ship and a freighter for the movement of ore, so it should have mining lvl 5, advance SSC lvl 2 exhumer lvl 4/5 (5 might be pushing it tbh? ) and then compression skills
Transmaniacon Minmatar Strike-Force-Alpha	Posted - 2008.07.24 18:53:00 - [375] Edited by: Transmaniacon on 24/07/2008 18:55:44 Edited by: Transmaniacon on 24/07/2008 18:53:51 The Rorqual is not just a transport ship, it actually has some great bonuses for mining ops, unfortunately without safe space its a big risk. The Orca will hopefully be a Mining Command Ship, with compression capability, a decent sized cargo-hold, gang link bonuses, and a possible bonus to tractor range/speed. This ship is not going to be a hauler, though people will probably use it for that anyway, it is intended to satisfy the logistical vacancy in empire mining ops.
Moriancumer Amarr Hammer Of Light	Posted - 2008.07.25 02:45:00 - [376] Gotta keep this thread at the top since I'm really looking forward to this ship. Lots of good ideas about what this ship will be able to do, how much it'll be able to carry and it's overall role in the whole scheme of things. One thing I haven't heard discussed or mentioned is whether or not this ship will be able to use deadspace gates. There are quite a few missions out there (for those that mission mine) with a sizeable amount of ore, but you must travel through 1 or 2 gates to get it all. A ship with a sizeable storage capacity and the potential for compress would go a looong way to making it easier to mine those pocekts. My 2 cents. -= HROLT Co-CEO =-
Robert Rosenberg Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.07.25 02:57:00 - [377] Originally by: Transmaniacon Well with fleet warfare going on, its probably a lot worse than it was. There are many fairly empty low sec areas, all full of ore. With an orca, you could have the ability to get in, get the ore, compress it (hopefully), and haul it back. Sure you would need some protection, but with scouts and a plan, avoiding danger is not hard. Have you ever actually done any of this stuff you are talking about? Mining Veldspar in a hulk I need to mine for ten hours to make up the loss of a single hulk. Not to mention I need to move the ore from low-sec into high-sec. So now I have the same exact reward, more risk, AND a logistical nightmare.
Transmaniacon Minmatar Strike-Force-Alpha	Posted - 2008.07.25 11:00:00 - [378] Originally by: Robert Rosenberg Originally by: Transmaniacon Well with fleet warfare going on, its probably a lot worse than it was. There are many fairly empty low sec areas, all full of ore. With an orca, you could have the ability to get in, get the ore, compress it (hopefully), and haul it back. Sure you would need some protection, but with scouts and a plan, avoiding danger is not hard. Have you ever actually done any of this stuff you are talking about? Mining Veldspar in a hulk I need to mine for ten hours to make up the loss of a single hulk. Not to mention I need to move the ore from low-sec into high-sec. So now I have the same exact reward, more risk, AND a logistical nightmare. Im not saying venture out into low sec, there are plenty of systems full of ore, one jump from empire, with no on in them. Its not a big problem, we take protection and mine our hearts out. You just need to be aligned, and pay attention to local, and your fine.
Jonak Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.27 14:41:00 - [379] Originally by: Moriancumer One thing I haven't heard discussed or mentioned is whether or not this ship will be able to use deadspace gates. There are quite a few missions out there (for those that mission mine) with a sizeable amount of ore, but you must travel through 1 or 2 gates to get it all. A ship with a sizeable storage capacity and the potential for compress would go a looong way to making it easier to mine those pocekts. I agree with that. It should be able to use dead space gates for those that like to mine their missions.
Zinnn	Posted - 2008.08.01 14:12:00 - [380] Edited by: Zinnn on 01/08/2008 14:13:41 bah, I'd be happy if the darned thing had a cargohold approx half of the rorqual (with ability to at least compress several cans of ore), with compression (maybe capital tractor capability), and one link ability... Just because something COULD use turrets, doesn't mean it's appropriate. Even if they gave it turret slots, remember that it'd just be a big overgrown hulk. You wouldn't be able to AFK mine properly in it, the roids disappear too quick in empire for that (and sometimes disappear too quick in 0.0 as well!). I think the bonus should be to cargo capacity and ore compression cost (maybe 5-10% per level). The other logistical problem would be organizing the ores in a high sec belt, to compress into just one oreball at a time. Example - in high sec you get, say 500 veld, 300 scord, 250 pyrox ... Not enough to compress. So you'd have to do some can workarounds in order to get the compression right. Not a big problem by any means... I have never had a rorqual but I assume that it takes things in its cargo hold and compresses from there. This one could compress directly from jet cans into other jet cans (because the ship is probably too small to look like a rorqual and work like a rorqual). Anyway just some thoughts... I say bring the orca in and nerf it later - ccp always does stuff like that so stop sitting on your hands and give the people what they want!
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.08.01 16:36:00 - [381] just a quick note to the above - hulks don't have turret slots. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
KAELA MENSHA	Posted - 2008.08.04 00:10:00 - [382] we want the to be able to carry hulks onboard. decent bonuses for mining. and resonable cargo bay. not a mini freighter
padraig animal Minmatar The Artisan Collective	Posted - 2008.08.04 07:13:00 - [383] Originally by: KAELA MENSHA we want the to be able to carry hulks onboard. decent bonuses for mining. and resonable cargo bay. not a mini freighter Get a rorqual I assume fully equipped like the Rorqual can ,for high sec i don't see the use for such option ,better give it a bigger cargo than . The bonusen is what most of the ppl wish for so if ccp lissens to us we will get that
Barbara Nichole Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.07 12:24:00 - [384] I would train one and get one for high sec if the only thing it did was compression and tractor. Moving more massives quantities around would make a huge difference to me, even in empire.
Deliceous HOMELESS. Elitist Cowards	Posted - 2008.08.09 23:41:00 - [385] The orca could simply a Type 2 Rorqual that essentially same except it is compact enough to be able to use Gates. Some times advancement in technology means making it smaller. Grant you a price of 9bill would make it difficult to afford.(Maybe some extra resists would be nice for such a price)
Krylon Rhae	Posted - 2008.08.11 08:39:00 - [386] Bump to top plus my 2-isk... 1. A command ship on steriods for the added bonuses; 2. Compression so my team can clear a belt and leave the haulers at home; 3. Tank the belt and provide shield emmision bonuses for the team, when and if required; and 4. A new module that allows for the direct transfer of ore from the hulks to the storage bay without jet can transfering (this would only be usable with the "Road-Kill" and Orca ships); or 5. If the new mod idea is not in the cards then allow the Mining Industrials to set-out an "enormous" (since all the other superlatives have been taken) secured can from their internal structure allowing all teams to place ore within. Waiting with baited breath...
Transmaniacon Minmatar Strike-Force-Alpha	Posted - 2008.08.11 12:33:00 - [387] Originally by: Deliceous The orca could simply a Type 2 Rorqual that essentially same except it is compact enough to be able to use Gates. Some times advancement in technology means making it smaller. Grant you a price of 9bill would make it difficult to afford.(Maybe some extra resists would be nice for such a price) For a high security ship thats ridiculous. Few corps have 9 bil to spend, let alone on a single ship. The ship itself would not be worth it for that cost because the extra income yielded from its presence would take months to make up, if not longer.. I expect it to be around the price of a freighter.
Gilliana SilverDrill Gallente SilverDrill Archiology Salvage and Industries	Posted - 2008.08.13 00:40:00 - [388] I do a lot of mining inside missions in highsec and traveling through several deadspace acceleration gates to get to and from my site. i pull 847,000 plageoclase, 437,000 pyroxeres and 1.47 million veldspar out of this mission every day for the smaller one and 3 times that in the larger one. the constant running through gates to get to and from my site slows down the process and the mission is from 50 to 175K from end to end so travel inside the mission field allso takes a huge amount of time. haveing a ship that can be used just to tracter in cans from 75k away would be helpfull. being able to lock the ship and undock in a hulk would helo and being able to compress the ore so i dont have to constantly run in and out in a hauler to cary it back would be a huge help. I have done lowsec and 0.0 Mining but the constant threat of geting my ship ganked makes it not worth the effort. i can mine more in highsec and just buy the lowsec minerals i cant mine. when in 0.0 i could never mine for more than a couple hours without someone trying to blow up my ship. and every system with ores worth mining is constantly camped and devoutly guarded bye 0.0 pirates. we need an intermediary ship between a hulk and a rorqual that can allso be used as an intermediary inhighsec for transporting bulk minerals between a transport ship and a freighter. I'm Maker Not a Breaker. I make the toys that Other use to go "Boom". Founder and COO of Silverdrill Archiology salvage and industries Mining and Industry
Robert Rosenberg Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.08.13 01:57:00 - [389] Originally by: Transmaniacon Originally by: Robert Rosenberg Originally by: Transmaniacon Well with fleet warfare going on, its probably a lot worse than it was. There are many fairly empty low sec areas, all full of ore. With an orca, you could have the ability to get in, get the ore, compress it (hopefully), and haul it back. Sure you would need some protection, but with scouts and a plan, avoiding danger is not hard. Have you ever actually done any of this stuff you are talking about? Mining Veldspar in a hulk I need to mine for ten hours to make up the loss of a single hulk. Not to mention I need to move the ore from low-sec into high-sec. So now I have the same exact reward, more risk, AND a logistical nightmare. Im not saying venture out into low sec, there are plenty of systems full of ore, one jump from empire, with no on in them. Its not a big problem, we take protection and mine our hearts out. You just need to be aligned, and pay attention to local, and your fine. I do all those things in 0.0, where it is actually worth that much effort (because I make more money instead of less/the same amount as empire).
Ttochpej	Posted - 2008.08.13 07:45:00 - [390] I don't know if this has been mentioned already, because I haven't read the 13 pages of this topic yet. But what I think would help empire mining would be drones capable of hauling. Something that can warp back to station and return, would be great. Or even just a small hauling drones that could move ore into secure cargo container so you didn't have to be right next to them, or keep moving when one gets full.
Gilliana SilverDrill Gallente SilverDrill Archiology Salvage and Industries	Posted - 2008.08.13 11:06:00 - [391] what i need is the ability to haul bulk unrefined ore between systems. my understanding is the compression blueprints only work in a rorqual so i can compress my ire in a station. i mine over 1/2 a million meters of ore a day and need to get it to a place where ican refine it most favorably. or where i can sell it on the markets. there is a huge gap in the cargo capacity between a transport ship and a freighter. going from 26k to 750K. we need an intermediary ship for transporting bulk materials. not just minerals but finished ships. and one that can use deadspace gates and pick up in space as a freighter can't. compression ability and tractor beams to pull in cans would be great but not absolutely necessary. in all ship aspects there are huge gaps between highsec ships and capitol ships that needs to be filed. I cant afford the 400 mill and 500 mill for my capitol ship and capitol industrial ship skillbooks let alone the 1.75 bill for a rorqual. it would take months of dedicated mining to aquire such wealth. the orca should be a paired down version of the rorqual with limited compression ability. only able to process the highsec ores and have a 350k to 500k cargo hold. the ability to carry fitted mining barges and industrial ships and should sell for around 500 mill or so. it should not have a clonevat abilaty as thats mainly a lowsec need. it should have a siege mode and controll lock so only the person with the ships codekey can board it. so someone cant just go around stealing orcas while the owner is mining in a hulk. it should be able to use mining drones through and able to use up to 10 drones with the right fittings. it shouuld have a drome bay large enough to cary both combat drones for defence and mining drones for work. I'm Maker Not a Breaker. I make the toys that Other use to go "Boom". Founder and COO of Silverdrill Archiology salvage and industries Mining and Industry
Melchior Grimm	Posted - 2008.08.13 20:23:00 - [392] Originally by: Ttochpej I don't know if this has been mentioned already, because I haven't read the 13 pages of this topic yet. But what I think would help empire mining would be drones capable of hauling. Something that can warp back to station and return, would be great. Or even just a small hauling drones that could move ore into secure cargo container so you didn't have to be right next to them, or keep moving when one gets full. That would be awesome, but I think then the macromining takeover would be complete
Pestachi0	Posted - 2008.08.13 20:57:00 - [393] I wish we could get some clarification on whether the compression-haters won their battle :) I really dont get where this compression hating comes from!? Every op has a hauler - some poor git that has to run back and forward because he made the iladvised decision to learn Gallente IndyV. Why exactly does he not deserve a playable game? Compressed ore selling will just mean that there is more valuable merchandise going down to 0.0 for pirates to gank. People seem to be focusing on the completely irrelevent - yes there are more stations in hisec, how exactly does that affect the 30 hauler trips back to these stations? I want: Ore compression High cargo capacity. Tractor beam Extra yield % is completely irrelevant to the logistical problems that this ship will solve. Skill requirements are almost irrelevant - so what if everyone in the op can fly one!? its a complete waste of time if more than 1 person has one.
Immersive Immersive Technology Solutions	Posted - 2008.08.14 14:31:00 - [394] How about something along the lines of: Bonuses to drone damage and health - something similar to the Dominix, and a drone bay of 200m3, bandwidth of 100mbps. Allows up to 4 heavy / sentry drones. or 5 mining drones (Possibly a bonus to number of mining drones deployed) Industrial Core bonus - but limit it to one or two cores. Compression is not it's purpose, it's just handy for those longer ops. Corporate Hangar Array (100,000 m3) - I still say this is a good idea. it forces users of the Orca to be in Player-owned corporations, limiting its susceptibility to being exploited by the macroers. (Not sure if the compression mechanics will aloow this tho!) Using a Corp Hangar Array, however, also means that anyone within 5000m (I think) of you can access the hold directly, thus eliminating the jet-can requirement (but it does gimp your range). It also means that, if you do choose to run haulers, that they also (if in your corp) have secure access to the ore, eliminating the threat of ore-thieving and can-flipping (hey, you get what you paid for...). No Turrets or Missile hardpoints - you're not here to fight. Bonus to Tractor range & speed - like the marauders (+100% to range and speed). You're here to manage your fleets ore, so manage it yourself. an 80km diameter on tractors range covers a nice swathe of belt. This encourages the use of jet-can mining, increasing the risk factor of using this ship. (Also considering the next point, GSC mining is going to be all but useless anyway) Bonus to mining links - You're in the orca because you're good at management (or have been forced into it ) so you are probably the one with the Leadership qualities (read: skills). so use them. Finally, in general: Cargo Bay = 1000m3 to hold the fuel for your industrial cores (you can replenish from your corp hangar) Durability and maneuverability somewhere between a Command ship and a freighter --- New to the API? GrabRaw XML It's coming...
Transmaniacon Minmatar Strike-Force-Alpha	Posted - 2008.08.14 14:51:00 - [395] Originally by: Immersive How about something along the lines of: Bonuses to drone damage and health - something similar to the Dominix, and a drone bay of 200m3, bandwidth of 100mbps. Allows up to 4 heavy / sentry drones. or 5 mining drones (Possibly a bonus to number of mining drones deployed) Industrial Core bonus - but limit it to one or two cores. Compression is not it's purpose, it's just handy for those longer ops. Corporate Hangar Array (100,000 m3) - I still say this is a good idea. it forces users of the Orca to be in Player-owned corporations, limiting its susceptibility to being exploited by the macroers. (Not sure if the compression mechanics will aloow this tho!) Using a Corp Hangar Array, however, also means that anyone within 5000m (I think) of you can access the hold directly, thus eliminating the jet-can requirement (but it does gimp your range). It also means that, if you do choose to run haulers, that they also (if in your corp) have secure access to the ore, eliminating the threat of ore-thieving and can-flipping (hey, you get what you paid for...). No Turrets or Missile hardpoints - you're not here to fight. Bonus to Tractor range & speed - like the marauders (+100% to range and speed). You're here to manage your fleets ore, so manage it yourself. an 80km diameter on tractors range covers a nice swathe of belt. This encourages the use of jet-can mining, increasing the risk factor of using this ship. (Also considering the next point, GSC mining is going to be all but useless anyway) Bonus to mining links - You're in the orca because you're good at management (or have been forced into it ) so you are probably the one with the Leadership qualities (read: skills). so use them. Finally, in general: Cargo Bay = 1000m3 to hold the fuel for your industrial cores (you can replenish from your corp hangar) Durability and maneuverability somewhere between a Command ship and a freighter I would love to have that ship right there
Muskiet	Posted - 2008.08.14 18:01:00 - [396] I don't know if this ship should have compression, but I'm floating around an idea to make it into a floating freighter dock so people can use their freighters to haul the ore. Make it as slow as a brick so it wouldn't make sense to use it as a hauler itself, but have it "anchor" in a belt and use its tractor beams to haul in the cans for a freighter that's docked at its side.
Transmaniacon Minmatar Strike-Force-Alpha	Posted - 2008.08.14 18:02:00 - [397] Originally by: Muskiet I don't know if this ship should have compression, but I'm floating around an idea to make it into a floating freighter dock so people can use their freighters to haul the ore. Make it as slow as a brick so it wouldn't make sense to use it as a hauler itself, but have it "anchor" in a belt and use its tractor beams to haul in the cans for a freighter that's docked at its side. This would be a neat idea, but it doesnt fill the gap between freighters and industrials.
ingenting 20th Legion	Posted - 2008.08.14 18:55:00 - [398] Originally by: Gilliana SilverDrill what i need is... wt;dr __________ Sigs here.
Tam Althor	Posted - 2008.08.15 13:34:00 - [399] Originally by: Muskiet I don't know if this ship should have compression, but I'm floating around an idea to make it into a floating freighter dock so people can use their freighters to haul the ore. Make it as slow as a brick so it wouldn't make sense to use it as a hauler itself, but have it "anchor" in a belt and use its tractor beams to haul in the cans for a freighter that's docked at its side. This combined with the idea of a huge corp hanger and small cargo hold would make the Orca perfect for mining ops in those highsec systems with no systems.
Max Essen Gallente Serenity Engineering and Transport Company Intrepid Proprietary Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.15 14:56:00 - [400] Edited by: Max Essen on 15/08/2008 15:00:14 I guess here's my take - kind of a compilation of what I've seen: The Orca was conceived and designed by Outer Ring Excavations in response to a growing need for mid-sized capital industry platforms to support and sustain large-scale mining operations in the more inhabited areas of Empire space. The Orca's primary strength lies in using its two ore compression lines to grind raw ores into particles of smaller size than possible before, while still maintaining their distinctive molecular structure. This means the vessel is able to carry vast amounts of ore in compressed form. The Orca can not fit a capital tractor beam unit, does not have jump drive capability and does note fit a clone vat bay. Due to its specialization towards industrial operations, its ship maintenance bay is able to accommodate only industrial ships, mining barges and their tech 2 variants. (75% capacity ship array than Rorquel) Capital Industrial Ships skill bonuses: -5% reduction in fuel consumption for industrial cores per level 5% bonus to effectiveness of mining foreman gang links per level when in deployed mode 50% bonus to the range of Capital Shield Transporters per level. 20% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints per level. Role Bonuses: 300% bonus to the range of survey scanners 250% bonus to the range of small tractor beams 99% reduction in CPU need for Gang Link modules Can use 2 Gang Link modules simultaneously. ============================== Real Men Structure-Tank
Max Essen Gallente Serenity Engineering and Transport Company Intrepid Proprietary Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.15 14:58:00 - [401] FittingRorquel vsOrca CPU: .........920 tf710 tf Powergrid: ...305,000 MW200,000 MW Calibration:400 points250 poins High Slots:64 Med Slots:75 Low Slots:33 Launch HrdPts:00 Turret HrdPts00 Structure Structure HPs250,000 HP125,000 HP Capacity40,000 m322,000 m3 Drone Capacity300 m3200 m3 Mass1,180,000,000675,000,000 Voume14,500,000 m38,000,000 m3 Structure Resists all 0%all 0% Armor Armor HPs30,000 HP20,000 HP Resists50, 10, 35, 3545, 15, 35, 40 Shields Shield Capacity90,000 HP50,000 HP Recharge Time14,400,000 ms900,000 ms Resists0, 50, 40, 200, 45, 45, 25 Capacitor Capacity54,560 Energy37,450 Energy Recharge3,900,000 ms3,000,000 ms Targeting Max Range160,000m75,000m Max Locked75 Target Speed6,750 ms6,750 ms Scan Res75 mm75 mm Mag SenStr115 points115 points Sig Radius4,500 m3,250 m Propulsion Max Velocity60 m/s75 m/s Other Agility Bonus11 Inertia Mod0.750.75 Warp Speed11 Onboard JD1 (yes)0 (no) cantUseStargate1 (yes)0 (no) canRecieveClone1 (yes)0 (no) Corp Hanger Cap10,000 m350,000 m3 CPU Need Bonus99%99% Drone Bandwidth125 Mbit/sec125 Mbit/sec hasShipMaint1 (yes)1 (yes) Real Men Structure-Tank
ingenting 20th Legion	Posted - 2008.08.15 22:57:00 - [402] Originally by: Max Essen Corp Hanger Cap10,000 m350,000 m3 wat? __________ Sigs here.
Alpha Dorn	Posted - 2008.08.16 00:14:00 - [403] Has there been any official word on this yet from any of the Devs that this will be a future platform? Or is this just wild EVE community speculation at this point?
Nick Bison Gallente Serenity Engineering and Transport Company Intrepid Proprietary Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.16 04:33:00 - [404] The very first post in this topic contains a link to a CCP Dev that was tasked with looking into or designing the Orca. It was dated back in October 2007 and I have not heard any "official" word since then. My supposition is that the work on Faction Wars took precidence and that this was shelved for the time being. I am like you in that I would like to hear from CCP on any development or thoughts or are we just spinning our wheels.
Dos Cerveza	Posted - 2008.08.16 17:50:00 - [405] All i'de like to see is a big cargo hold, 275000 m3 sounds good and command ship bonuses for mining with 3 command links and space for a couple of tractors capable of reaching 100km or so. Space for 10 med drones would be nice. just my two pence worth....
loki gallach	Posted - 2008.08.16 22:19:00 - [406] Originally by: Max Essen Edited by: Max Essen on 15/08/2008 15:00:14 I guess here's my take - kind of a compilation of what I've seen: The Orca was conceived and designed by Outer Ring Excavations in response to a growing need for mid-sized capital industry platforms to support and sustain large-scale mining operations in the more inhabited areas of Empire space. The Orca's primary strength lies in using its two ore compression lines to grind raw ores into particles of smaller size than possible before, while still maintaining their distinctive molecular structure. This means the vessel is able to carry vast amounts of ore in compressed form. The Orca can not fit a capital tractor beam unit, does not have jump drive capability and does note fit a clone vat bay. Due to its specialization towards industrial operations, its ship maintenance bay is able to accommodate only industrial ships, mining barges and their tech 2 variants. (75% capacity ship array than Rorquel) Capital Industrial Ships skill bonuses: -5% reduction in fuel consumption for industrial cores per level 5% bonus to effectiveness of mining foreman gang links per level when in deployed mode 50% bonus to the range of Capital Shield Transporters per level. 20% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints per level. Role Bonuses: 300% bonus to the range of survey scanners 250% bonus to the range of small tractor beams 99% reduction in CPU need for Gang Link modules Can use 2 Gang Link modules simultaneously. ============================== I'd buy that signed
Qatanqo	Posted - 2008.08.17 00:38:00 - [407] 9 months later indeed and still nothing, making us miners happy with a name? First a see it then a believe it. AK
Darth Felin	Posted - 2008.08.17 21:30:00 - [408] Originally by: Qatanqo 9 months later indeed and still nothing, making us miners happy with a name? First a see it then a believe it. AK Devs ctated last December that it Orca is only at the beginning of the creation and balancing proccess and it will take a long time before introduction. Probably it will be introduced in the Christmas patch or even later.
Regara Draco Dead 2 Rights TransWarp Ventures	Posted - 2008.08.17 22:09:00 - [409] Edited by: Regara Draco on 17/08/2008 22:12:16 Originally by: Darth Felin Originally by: Qatanqo 9 months later indeed and still nothing, making us miners happy with a name? First a see it then a believe it. AK Devs ctated last December that it Orca is only at the beginning of the creation and balancing proccess and it will take a long time before introduction. Probably it will be introduced in the Christmas patch or even later. There was a post earlier in this thread saying it would probably be released in the winter expansion for this year. I'll try to dig it up. #310 Originally by: CCP Chronotis it is actively being worked on and most definitely not forgotten about, currently we hope to see the orca delivered in the winter expansion which will be a good time for industrialists everywhere . It is too soon to talk about the orca in depth just yet but we think it will certainly fill the big gap between the industrials and freighters adequately and that is as much as I am prepared to say about its concept as the rest needs to wait until we are further down the pipeline first. <a href="http://rumandmonkey.com/widgets/toys/testgen/6199/"><img src="http://stat.rumandmonkey.com/tests/9/9/6199/25764.jpg" title="Industrialist with teeth" alt="Industrialist with teeth" border="0"
Dennmoth Ferdier	Posted - 2008.08.18 15:40:00 - [410] Someone somewhere above me stated that the orca has prolly been scrapped, or left on the planning board, to correct that, I just got from talking with Ccp tanis, and he states the model is looking fabulous so far, and that it indeed IS still being made at the moment.
padraig animal Minmatar The Artisan Collective	Posted - 2008.08.18 17:36:00 - [411] Ok... tho CCP Tanis is indeed from the dev team ..but he deals whit other stuff i thought atleast if i check his posts Well like said a official word would be nice
Pernick Gallente Wilkins and Bennett CO	Posted - 2008.08.18 17:55:00 - [412] Originally by: Dennmoth Ferdier I just got from talking with Ccp tanis (...) Must be nice to have friends on the inside
Alpha Dorn	Posted - 2008.08.20 19:42:00 - [413] Originally by: padraig animal Ok... tho CCP Tanis is indeed from the dev team ..but he deals whit other stuff i thought atleast if i check his posts Well like said a official word would be nice You think he can give us word on possible skills so we can work in that direction?
Gilliana SilverDrill Gallente Blueprint Haus Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.08.20 21:46:00 - [414] someone earlier had said you could try out the orca on the test server. i went on singularity this morning looking for it and could find no trace of it. either its been shelved or droped all together as its not curently anywhere to be found. the original post for this thread is over10 months old with no trace of any results.
NegativeOutlook	Posted - 2008.08.21 07:28:00 - [415] Edited by: NegativeOutlook on 21/08/2008 07:29:34 1.bonus to lrg remote shield reps intead of capital 2.bonus to small tractor beam giving it a 50km range 3.500,000m/3 cargo hold no ore crunching and dont allow expanders, cargo rigs or freight containers 4.2 gang links instead of 3 5.should be able to hold its own against a suicide gang while keeping hulks alive long enough for concord to arrive (good tank and 5 heavy drones rather than the 5 med a hulk can launch) i personaly wont buy one if it has to sit at a pos or station instead of the belt like my rorqual does 6.dont allow it in missions or complexes this ship should just basicly be a toned down version of the rorqual but if it is made with very little benefit like some players that dont even know what a mining laser is would like to see then it will collect dust it has to be worth docking a hulk to undock this ship if not dont bother bringing it into the game
Pernick Gallente Wilkins and Bennett CO	Posted - 2008.08.21 18:18:00 - [416] Originally by: Gilliana SilverDrill someone earlier had said you could try out the orca on the test server. i went on singularity this morning looking for it and could find no trace of it. either its been shelved or droped all together as its not curently anywhere to be found. the original post for this thread is over10 months old with no trace of any results. I believe that you're wrong. See Chronotis' response: (reply #315 to this thread): Originally by: CCP Chronotis it is actively being worked on and most definitely not forgotten about, currently we hope to see the orca delivered in the winter expansion which will be a good time for industrialists everywhere . It is too soon to talk about the orca in depth just yet but we think it will certainly fill the big gap between the industrials and freighters adequately and that is as much as I am prepared to say about its concept as the rest needs to wait until we are further down the pipeline first. I also read that same thing about it being available on Sing - but I also read that it was removed from the server about 2 days later and hasn't been seen since.
Jeirth Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.08.27 11:24:00 - [417] Bumpity, back to the top. With Midas being announced, could we get some ccp information about the likelihood of the orca, in whatever form, being in the patch?
Dr Prometheus Caldari Gears of Construction	Posted - 2008.08.29 11:30:00 - [418] I also noticed that he talked about New types of Ships. So i wonder what thos ecould be, and it is industrial based so we get new Industrial ships?
Max Essen Gallente Serenity Engineering and Transport Company Intrepid Proprietary Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.29 16:16:00 - [419] Probably not. i only say this as there has been nothing on the test server (that I have seen) nor has CCP said anything solid about any new industrial ships. Not trying to be a wet blanket as I really want this ship! Real Men Structure-Tank
Alpha Dorn	Posted - 2008.08.29 23:51:00 - [420] Originally by: Max Essen I really want this ship! You and everyone else.
loki gallach	Posted - 2008.09.01 12:20:00 - [421] Any news yet ??
Tinker1947	Posted - 2008.09.01 12:34:00 - [422] Anybody want a stab at the skills that will be required....for when its released...
Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2008.09.01 13:03:00 - [423] Originally by: Tinker1947 Anybody want a stab at the skills that will be required....for when its released... I'm only semi interested in the skills to fly it, I want to know what will be required to build it :o If it's going to use gates it's not going to require the capital ships skill, at least not directly. Not sure if it works indirectly or not.
Ttochpej	Posted - 2008.09.01 13:24:00 - [424] I have been thinking about this and wont any new mining ship that increases the amount people can mine in the end just make mineral prices fall and mean that decrease that amount you can earn from mining? having a better mining ship does sound better, just I'm hoping it's got better rang, tank, maby spare slots for guns, and a bigger cargo bay, and not increasing amount mined. If this ship was on the test server, and there are models of it does anyone have a link to a picture of it or somthing?
shady trader	Posted - 2008.09.01 18:00:00 - [425] Originally by: Ttochpej I have been thinking about this and wont any new mining ship that increases the amount people can mine in the end just make mineral prices fall and mean that decrease that amount you can earn from mining? having a better mining ship does sound better, just I'm hoping it's got better rang, tank, maby spare slots for guns, and a bigger cargo bay, and not increasing amount mined. If this ship was on the test server, and there are models of it does anyone have a link to a picture of it or somthing? The Orca will not mine directly, its going to be a command ship with some extra's but not the ability to fit strip miners.
Alpha Dorn	Posted - 2008.09.02 13:57:00 - [426] I agree; the Orca will not mine directly. It will be a mining support/Command ship for high-sec. But my guess it that it will be used for that, as well as hauling on a lesser scale than freighters (depending on the size of its cargo hold and the other industrial ship that they have coming out at the same time). But what I would like to see are some more or better command links and implants. Preferably, command links that have a more direct affect on mining yield per cycle and not just a decrease in cycle time. But i'm still wondering how CCP would work ore compression into an Orca and not take away from the Rorqual.
Malganour Deep Space Consortium	Posted - 2008.09.02 16:41:00 - [427] This ship will make corp mining ops run a lot smother and more enjoyable, we are very much looking forward to its arrival. One point people keep making is that if it was to condense the ore it would drive the prices of minerals down, mainly trit, in 0.0. But we seam to be seeing that the cheapest prices for minerals are already in 0.0. Also iam sick of people saying that this game is only about pvp, but i like to think that there is a good amount of industrial corps out there that are helping lower the cost of pvping for those that play eve for it. It is time people as a whole should see that there is more fun to be had by players of eve than those that just what to directly kill others.I am not asking for a easy ride just some credit for what we do. (this part should probably be in a different forum section) so its about time ccp seen the importance of helping those that play this way and giving us the tools to be more productive in so, thus helping pvp be more obtainable to everyone who wishes to do this. P.S isn't it mostly pvp'ers that micro mine with alts to pay for there pvping anyway.
Sciencegeek deathdealer	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:59:00 - [428] THE ORCA IS AN AMAZING IDEA!!!!! The most inportaint part though would be to make it easily accessable to new corps. so keep the cost low say around 150 mill. it should also have some benifit for solo miners cause they dont deserve to just be shunned. i do agree how ever make the skills somewhat of a challenge so that macro miners dont use it. CCP should also think of a better exumer. make it uber expensive but worth it. say at the best lvl, allow them to use 6 strip miners. with a huge carg hold.
Malganour Deep Space Consortium	Posted - 2008.09.03 11:48:00 - [429] I feel it needs to be hard to train for and at least as expensive as a cap ship. But also have some way of aiding its self and the miners defences. P.S remember hulks use to cost more than 500mill at one time so starting it at 150mill would be madness. So is there any more facts out there as to what it would be?
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.03 17:53:00 - [430] Originally by: Sciencegeek deathdealer THE ORCA IS AN AMAZING IDEA!!!!! The most inportaint part though would be to make it easily accessable to new corps. so keep the cost low say around 150 mill. it should also have some benifit for solo miners cause they dont deserve to just be shunned. i do agree how ever make the skills somewhat of a challenge so that macro miners dont use it. CCP should also think of a better exumer. make it uber expensive but worth it. say at the best lvl, allow them to use 6 strip miners. with a huge carg hold. I'd think that the skill requirements would be more important than cost. Twenty active noobs can get a billion isk together fairly quickly (say within two months), but if it takes six months to train to fly and use that orca correctly, then that's the real obstacle.
Darkeen Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.03 22:31:00 - [431] Originally by: Alpha Dorn But i'm still wondering how CCP would work ore compression into an Orca and not take away from the Rorqual. But since the Rorqual is zero sec and the Orca is high sec they could be the same thing but operate in different areas, thus they dont clash with each other... I'd like to see the Orca be able to compress ore. It would mean that I can mine ores/ice and compress them with the Orca and thus be able to transport ores to other systems. Since I dont have freighter or transport skills I dont find it useful to transport it myself... and I'm not giving my hard mined ore to others to trasnport for me (even with a third party involved - unless its Chribba!) I see this as enabling me to transport ores further afield. It wont affect how I mine, it just makes it easier for me to more the ore...(if compressed!) Regards, Jason Brisbane
Jasonwilliams	Posted - 2008.09.04 02:30:00 - [432] All this talk just kinda makes you wish that the devs or someone would grace us all with information about this little brother.
Cheap Dude	Posted - 2008.09.04 07:52:00 - [433] Who came up with the idea that the Orca is a high-sec mining supporting vessel? I mean.. IF it would be a mining supporting vessel, it can be used in 0.0 also. What I read in the past is that the Orca would be a 'mini freighter' or a 'big transporter' with possible capital tractor beams on it with around 100K cargo.
Makko Gray	Posted - 2008.09.04 16:31:00 - [434] I'm confused by all the people asking for a rediculous sized cargo hold for the orca (many times of the roqual) with odd caveats like it can only hold ore. Sounds like some are just trying to turn it into a freigher. I'm very much in favour of a much smaller cargo bay (half that of the roqual say) and compression - which in effect increases your ore storage capacity and has the bonus that you still get that space bonus when transfering it to a hauler. Drop all the capital ship stuff give it the drone and link bonuses, less shield and armour and a more modest price tag. May not be so good for hulk groups but would be great for the mining groups in retrievers or at the lower end of things. I think the point to remember is that it should have it's drawbacks as well as it's advantages. It shouldn't just give large groups of hulks to spend days in belts without going back to stations .
Fennore	Posted - 2008.09.08 04:26:00 - [435] I found this screen shot of the Orca and its requirements. http://eve-files.com/dl/172435 I'll take 2 please!
Kritinana Minmatar Jackie Treehorn Productions	Posted - 2008.09.08 05:08:00 - [436] Originally by: Fennore I found this screen shot of the Orca and its requirements. http://eve-files.com/dl/172435 I'll take 2 please! 'jump drive operation'. right...........nice try, well not really no.
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.08 07:35:00 - [437] Originally by: Kritinana Originally by: Fennore I found this screen shot of the Orca and its requirements. http://eve-files.com/dl/172435 I'll take 2 please! 'jump drive operation'. right...........nice try, well not really no. I don't know if the screenshots are real or not, but I gather that the Orca when it first appeared on Sisi, had the same skill requirements to fly (and perhaps to build) as the rorqual. I hope CCP gives us enough warning so that we can train requirements for the Orca before it comes out.
Alpha Dorn	Posted - 2008.09.08 16:33:00 - [438] Originally by: Fennore I found this screen shot of the Orca and its requirements. http://eve-files.com/dl/172435 I'll take 2 please! Ummm, how about no. Nice try though. 3/10
Jasonwilliams	Posted - 2008.09.09 18:24:00 - [439] LOL at the screenie! The Orca apprently has 60,500 more powergrid then the Rorqual. It has a drone bay, but no bandwidth? Same speed as the Rorqual even though it's smaller? Same skill set required as Rorqual? Doesn't show cap recharge time. Same shield cap and recharge rate as Rorqual and higher explosive resis? More EM armor resis then Rorqual? Same volume and mass? That makes no sense and it doesn't even have a packaging amount in the screenie.
quickshot89 Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.09 19:19:00 - [440] Originally by: Jasonwilliams Edited by: Jasonwilliams on 09/09/2008 18:27:52 LOL at the screenie! The Orca apprently has 60,500 more powergrid then the Rorqual. It has a drone bay, but no bandwidth? Same speed as the Rorqual even though it's smaller? Same skill set required as Rorqual? Doesn't show cap amount. Same shield cap and recharge rate as Rorqual and higher explosive resis? More EM armor resis then Rorqual? Same volume and mass? That makes no sense and it doesn't even have a packaging amount in the screenie. yes, becuase the test server always reflects whats gonna happen
Veldya Caldari Guristari Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2008.09.10 09:39:00 - [441] Originally by: Jasonwilliams Edited by: Jasonwilliams on 09/09/2008 18:27:52 LOL at the screenie! The Orca apprently has 60,500 more powergrid then the Rorqual. It has a drone bay, but no bandwidth? Same speed as the Rorqual even though it's smaller? Same skill set required as Rorqual? Doesn't show cap amount. Same shield cap and recharge rate as Rorqual and higher explosive resis? More EM armor resis then Rorqual? Same volume and mass? That makes no sense and it doesn't even have a packaging amount in the screenie. They probably cut n' paste the old Rorqual file and renamed it Orca and just played around with a few settings. I doubt any hard or fast stats will show up for some time.
gordon861 Minmatar PROGENITOR CORPORATION Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.09.10 11:22:00 - [442] For skills (if it's a T2 ship), I'd expect them to be similar to the skills for a Command Ship, but instead of Logistics 4 or Assault Ships 4 it would be Exhumer 4. Add the Command Ship skill as well and you have a skillset that would make sense. Originally by: CCP Arkanon I frown on employees being power players to the extent that their gameplay results in any sort of domination over others. I donÆt believe CCP employees should run the EVE universe.
Jonna Andromedae	Posted - 2008.09.10 11:51:00 - [443] Edited by: Jonna Andromedae on 10/09/2008 11:52:15 There isn't any reason why CCP should BOOST macro mining in high security space. Instead of that they should BOOST lowsec and 0.0 space and make it worth of trying again. You guys do realise that with that kind of ship mineral prices would drop like a ancient japanese kamikaze pilot from 3000 feet to deck of carrier?
shady trader	Posted - 2008.09.10 19:56:00 - [444] Originally by: Jonna Andromedae Edited by: Jonna Andromedae on 10/09/2008 11:52:15 There isn't any reason why CCP should BOOST macro mining in high security space. Instead of that they should BOOST lowsec and 0.0 space and make it worth of trying again. You guys do realise that with that kind of ship mineral prices would drop like a ancient japanese kamikaze pilot from 3000 feet to deck of carrier? It does depend on that other changes they make to the mineral market. For example if they remove non-named tech1 loot from rat and mission drops the amount of minerials being injected into the econamy will be signifincalty effected and mining will have to increase to compansate. Macrointel, the place were the nature order of the universe does not hold sway. Pirates and ore thief's are congrated by carebears for the actions.
sativaa canybus	Posted - 2008.09.10 23:30:00 - [445] Macros Macros Macros, this is alwasy everyones complaint. Just because people exsist that expliot does not mean in any way players that don't should not have fun also... I would hate to see any option not given to the real player just because we have no way to deal with people that expliot.
Kalderion Mar	Posted - 2008.09.11 15:19:00 - [446] you know what? I heard about this thread, so I had to back to the forums.. and i regret it. Every freaking thread ive ever seen that had even the slightest hint that it was mining oriented there were idiots spaming all over the place about macro miners.. I dont give a dern about macro miners.... i kil them when i find them.. other that that... they are NOT OUR PEOBLEM! CCP will fix them, it is their problem to deal with, so PLEASE stop using macro miners as an excuse to ruin the fun of others. Macro miners are not an excuse, in any way, shape or form to stop from doing something the miners would like and enjoy. period!!!!!!!!! ok, im done venting. Compression on the Orca wouldnt increase the amount of minerals in highsec. The Orca wont be used as BOTH a hauler and a bonus giver. If you think about it, using it to give your mining gang the bonus, and then jump it out of the system to haul ores to a station??? no, at least not this guy. I would rather have it remain in system for the bonus, and have a hauler or three picking up the ores it compresses and hauling them back. I use the Rorq the same way, the difference is, the rorq sits in a small pos thats expendable, the orca wouldnt need that, and could sit in the belt, actually using its tractors and compression in the way the rorqual was intended. the Orca will make prices drop??? being able to compress ores will make the prices drop??? not hardly.. I used the rorqual many times to compress ores and hauled them to highsec for transportation... ive hauled ores FROM highsec to lowsec, compressed, hauled BACK to highsec for transportation.... if people want to compress their ores they will find a way, the orca will in no way increase the amount of ores that are capable of being mined. bonus you say? no, we can already get the bonus's, the difference is the bonus giver is in a BC or a command ship and is relatively useless.. in the orca he may no longer be useless. The only way the Orca will increase anything we dont al;ready have, is that when it comes out, everyone will want one, then everyone will form mining gangs to play with their new toy.. once the new toy experience is worn off, mining will resume its original course with those people who do, and did it regularly before the release of the rorqual. The Orca should be a Rorqual. Remove the indy bay, and the clone vat bay, as well as the corp hanger, reduce the size slightly so it can gate, thats it, everything else should remain the same. The Rorqual itself is pretty useles when it comes to compression, once you get some ores in it, you quickly find that its a pain in the butt trying to juggle ores and compression bpos etc etc etc etc.. and it fills up in a very VERY short time. haulers running ores TO the Rorqual, and a carrier picking up ores and jumping them to the station... it remains that he rorqual is used as nothing more than a compacter and occasionally a way to get a noob to 0.0 to give the experianced people targets. I think that he Orca will end up the same way, people wil find its best use as a bonus giver/compacter. the only time it will do any hauling will be at the end of the op. I look forward to seeing what CCP decides to do with it.
Jasmit Blane	Posted - 2008.09.12 09:31:00 - [447] Originally by: Kalderion Mar you know what? I heard about this thread, so I had to back to the forums.. and i regret it. Every freaking thread ive ever seen that had even the slightest hint that it was mining oriented there were idiots spaming all over the place about macro miners.. I dont give a dern about macro miners.... i kil them when i find them.. other that that... they are NOT OUR PEOBLEM! CCP will fix them, it is their problem to deal with, so PLEASE stop using macro miners as an excuse to ruin the fun of others. Macro miners are not an excuse, in any way, shape or form to stop from doing something the miners would like and enjoy. period!!!!!!!!! Kalderian... liked the rant and couldn't agree more.
Tinker1947	Posted - 2008.09.12 14:01:00 - [448] I assume the new ship will need to be invented, i have a Alt that can do hulk invention so any guess as to what ship it will be invented from...best buy one while there cheap....
shady trader	Posted - 2008.09.12 18:37:00 - [449] Originally by: Tinker1947 I assume the new ship will need to be invented, i have a Alt that can do hulk invention so any guess as to what ship it will be invented from...best buy one while there cheap.... Since the ship is going to be smaller and have more limitations (cannot jump and no jump clones possible others). I believe that the ship will actually be a tech 1 ship. Also there is some debate about if it will a true capital ship (skill wise) were the Rorqual is. Normally the tech2 version requires the tech1 ships skills in addition to other skills. The only possible ship to invent from would be the Rorquel which is a bigger ship. Macrointel, the place were the nature order of the universe does not hold sway. Pirates and ore thief's are congrated by carebears for the actions.
quickshot89 Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.12 19:09:00 - [450] how do you know it cant jump? for all we know if could be like a JF, but smaller cargo hold but has compression and slots
Kritinana Minmatar Jackie Treehorn Productions	Posted - 2008.09.12 19:59:00 - [451] Originally by: quickshot89 how do you know it cant jump? for all we know if could be like a JF, but smaller cargo hold but has compression and slots Sure it's possible that it would have jump capability (though i doubt it). However if it were to be T2 the only feasable ship it could be based on would be the rorq., which being a true capital has a j.d. on the premise that it is too large to use gates. Obviously, this would be quite problematic for a highsec ship wether it's equipped w/ a j.d. or not. Conclusion = No, it will not be a T2 ship, as it will certainly be a new hull and therefore have no T1 counterpart to invent from.
procurement specialist	Posted - 2008.09.12 20:12:00 - [452] Originally by: Kalderion Mar you know what? I heard about this thread, so I had to back to the forums.. and i regret it. Every freaking thread ive ever seen that had even the slightest hint that it was mining oriented there were idiots spaming all over the place about macro miners.. I dont give a dern about macro miners.... i kil them when i find them.. other that that... they are NOT OUR PEOBLEM! CCP will fix them, it is their problem to deal with, so PLEASE stop using macro miners as an excuse to ruin the fun of others. Macro miners are not an excuse, in any way, shape or form to stop from doing something the miners would like and enjoy. period!!!!!!!! ^ this
KAELA MENSHA	Posted - 2008.09.12 22:48:00 - [453] ok, im done venting. Good Compression on the Orca wouldnt increase the amount of minerals in highsec. The Orca wont be used as BOTH a hauler and a bonus giver. If you think about it, using it to give your mining gang the bonus, and then jump it out of the system to haul ores to a station??? no, at least not this guy. I would rather have it remain in system for the bonus, and have a hauler or three picking up the ores it compresses and hauling them back. I use the Rorq the same way, the difference is, the rorq sits in a small pos thats expendable, the orca wouldnt need that, and could sit in the belt, actually using its tractors and compression in the way the rorqual was intended.the Orca will make prices drop??? being able to compress ores will make the prices drop??? not hardly.. I used the rorqual many times to compress ores and hauled them to highsec for transportation... ive hauled ores FROM highsec to lowsec, compressed, hauled BACK to highsec for transportation.... if people want to compress their ores they will find a way, the orca will in no way increase the amount of ores that are capable of being mined. bonus you say? no, we can already get the bonus's, the difference is the bonus giver is in a BC or a command ship and is relatively useless.. in the orca he may no longer be useless.The only way the Orca will increase anything we dont al;ready have, is that when it comes out, everyone will want one, then everyone will form mining gangs to play with their new toy.. once the new toy experience is worn off, mining will resume its original course with those people who do, and did it regularly before the release of the rorqual.The Orca should be a Rorqual. Remove the indy bay, WHY ?,k and the clone vat bay, as well as the corp hanger, WHY again ? reduce the size slightly so it can gate, thats it, everything else should remain the same. The Rorqual itself is pretty useles when it comes to compression, once you get some ores in it, you quickly find that its a pain in the butt trying to juggle ores and compression bpos etc etc etc etc.. and it fills up in a very VERY short time. haulers running ores TO the Rorqual, and a carrier picking up ores and jumping them to the station... it remains that he rorqual is used as nothing more than a compacter and occasionally a way to get a noob to 0.0 to give the experianced people targets. I think that he Orca will end up the same way, people wil find its best use as a bonus giver/compacter. the only time it will do any hauling will be at the end of the op.I look forward to seeing what CCP decides to do with it. .......................................................... leave the corp hanger/ship maintenance bay, give it bonuses the same as command ship. plus scan probe bonus, !!. No jump drive, No ore compression. And use it as centerpeice of exploration mining.
Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2008.09.13 06:07:00 - [454] Originally by: Kritinana Conclusion = No, it will not be a T2 ship, as it will certainly be a new hull and therefore have no T1 counterpart to invent from. I'm thinking there's a possibility that there will be 2 new ships, a smaller freighter, and the orca being a T2 version of that. It would be interesting to say the least. I agree it doesn't seem possible to make it a T2 version of any existing ship, and it's also unlikely to have a jump drive as there will be too much cross over with a jump freighter.
Kalderion Mar	Posted - 2008.09.17 04:54:00 - [455] Remove the indy bay, WHY ? Why would it need to haul barges and haulers in highsec? and the clone vat bay, as well as the corp hanger, WHY again ? The Clone bay is to jump your miners to the rorq, bypassing the gate camps etc, you dont have this limitation/danger in highsec. "IMO" A Corp hanger would be overkill for a ship a jump or three away from a station that can be reached with no danger, I would rather see increased room in the cargo bay instead if the thing is going to have the compression ability. If it is going to be cap class it will most likely have the corp hanger, if it isnt cap class it probably wont. I do like the idea of giving it a scanning bonus, that along with the cap tractors and mining bonus would keep a lot of them in exploration belts and out of regular belts
Kalderion Mar	Posted - 2008.09.17 05:56:00 - [456] Looking forward to this thing, is one of the few things that keeps me in this game. I havent been pvping in over three months. The Rorqual kept me in and training for quite a while, until i found out how useless it is being in a small corp/alliance. its fittings have been swapped out and it is used primarily to haul pos supplies now. I once had a dream of ninja mining ops with it.. after scouting many systems, and finding a decent one or three, i would sit in there cloaked, watching and waiting, after five or six hours of no one popping in the plans would be set... Carrier jumps in and pops a small pos, rorq jumps in and miners JC to it, about 30 to 45 min later one or two hostiles show up. usually within about 15 to 20 minutes after that the task force shows up and pops the small pos. Ive had it happen, ive seen it happen to others at least 6 times. The Rorq hasnt gone into deployed mode in a couple months now. The dream, at least for me has been shattered. Ive spent many hours in lowsec looking for a defensible system with no pos's and at least six belts.. Ive come to the conclusion its not possible to find such a thing. One system i checked had 17 pos's in it. week after week after week of war dec's by scammers wanting my corp to pay up for them to cancel the war dec has decimated the ranks. alliance after alliance that looks good to start, then falls apart before we even get started have left me burnt out on even trying anymore. The Orca, gives a hint of light at the end of this long monotonous tunnel. something that can be used in highsec to bring noobs together for common profit and fun, to use to train for 0.0 and perhaps once again give me the enthusiasm i once held for this game. Its only a ship, but one with the potential to increase the fun of living in highsec. (which sucks) Ive even been part in trying to take a station that no one used. system was completely empty for days. We took that station, we set up pos's, only to have a nearby alliance swarm in and decimate the forces and defenses we had set up in less time than it took us to take it when it was empty. That system is again completely empty and unused, it doesn't have the greatest ores or location... they don't want it, they just didn't want us to have it. This is CCP's big flaw in their plan to get people to 0.0. a blooming alliance has no chance against the well established, and the well established will take no chances on a blooming alliance growing to the point it would endanger their holdings.. that's just good business and defensive strategy. so after nearly two years in the game, i still play because?? New Toys like the Orca. The Rorqual is a great ship if you are part of a well defended alliance, however if your not, its usefulness is limited. Im not saying it isn't possible, but my luck has shown to be bad in this regard. The Orca should be able to be used for its full potential, and i do look forward to its release for this reason alone. I hope CCP puts some thought and care into this ship, if done right, it will be one of the most well used ships in the game, up to and until they figure out a way to increase the size of the map without the huge alliances simply swallowing the new areas. They say most of 0.0 is unoccupied and unused. they are correct, but there is a reason for that, and the way the game is designed precludes the possibility of it ever being used and occupied. Bring on the Orca, I'll pay for another year.
retro sophie	Posted - 2008.09.17 08:41:00 - [457] Any news official news please CCP on how the Orca is progressing? It seems that mining seems to have been left behind in the recent patches............
Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2008.09.17 12:05:00 - [458] Originally by: Kalderion Mar Why would it need to haul barges and haulers in highsec? Indy bay is useless in highsec, but we could use a way to haul rigged ships in highsec though, without having to fly them all one by one.
Lyvanna Kitaen Minmatar Noonday Sun Corp	Posted - 2008.09.19 04:33:00 - [459] Originally by: Kalderion Mar Remove the indy bay, WHY ? Why would it need to haul barges and haulers in highsec? I currently do a lot of hi-sec exploration, when I find a good belt, I had to package up my hulks and put them in a freighter to transport them to the mining system. Then they have to be reassembled. Can't fit any rigs. My hauler has cargohold rigs so it has to be flown seperately to the site. IOW it's inconvenient and I can't rig my hulks to increase their drone yield or cargohold. That's why I want it to be able to haul assembled ships.
Delta Bacat	Posted - 2008.09.19 12:57:00 - [460] Some nice ideas in the previous posts and I would love to give my opinion about the Orca. Let's start with what's given by CCP: it's the Rorqual's little brother. This would indicate it's not a mining vessel itself, but a mining support vessel. It's supposed to be used for high sec space. Having this information, I'm going to state my preferred use of the vessel and then mark what features it would need to provide this functionality. The Orca (being a mining support vessel) is used in mining operations of multiple characters. The amount of characters in an op are important for balancing issues, would an orca be useful in a 2-man op (for a player and his alt) or for Corp-ops? I'd prefer larger ops, making the added value of an Orca shine around relatively small ops, such as a 5 man op. (three hulks, an Orca and itty 5 hauler). Except for that, I would like to make the Orca a vessel that enables the stationless systems to be mined. (This is currently imo a real pain for the haulers). Teh wishlist: I'd love the orca to have the following options: Ore compression Relieving the workload of the haulers can be done using ore compression. Less haulers will be needed, increasing the overall effectiveness of the op. This will also make it much more viable to mine stationless system belts, as the hauling time to keep up with the mining is increased (enormously, this will also make it possible for non dedicated haulers to join the op). Gang bonusses No good mining op goes without some nice boosts. However, in high sec, it's relatively safe, so the big bad battleship captain is going to be terribly bored here. Why not allow the Orca to boost the op. He/she will not be bored, having to compress the ores, tractor cans and attack the rats (see dronebay). The big bad battleship (just using this for alliteration) can then focus his ship more on combat IF the the mining op goes on the adventurous trail and goes lower sec. Goodly drone bay The hulk has a nice dronebay, being able to mine and defend itself with it's drones, I would love to see this versatility in the Orca as well. The difference is that the Orca would not really use mining drones, but it should be able to help with the defense of the mining op (and itself). Being able to launch atleast 5 drones will take care of anything it will encounter in high sec. In my dreams it would also be able carry additional drones, either to mine, but more importantly, to boost shields and repair armor to protect against boobytrapped belts. Not on the wishlist Capital Tractor Beams The Orca, being able to compress ore, needs to be stationairy. To be stationairy and still have access to the ore, Tractor Beams are needed. However, considering the relative small size of belts (about 50km diameter) and the range of the mining lasers, an Orca sitting in the middle of the belt's circular centre is able to tractor any can created by miners that are not hugging the belt. (the miners have 15km range themselves, which allows them to reach the whole belt while staying in range of the Orca.) Clone vat While it would make the starting of the op easier, I don't feel this as really neccesary. I don't have numbers, but I wonder how many of the miners will have sufficient rep to use jump clones anyway? Jump drive I feel this would be out of place in high sec. Also, it would take away too much use of the rorq.
Barbara Nichole Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.20 00:51:00 - [461] Quote: This will also make it much more viable to mine stationless system belts, ..also hauling ore away from stations with low standing in favor of those with high enough standing to get a perfect refining session.
Clansworth Burning Sky Labs	Posted - 2008.09.20 11:02:00 - [462] Originally by: Delta Bacat Capital Tractor Beams The Orca, being able to compress ore, needs to be stationairy. To be stationairy and still have access to the ore, Tractor Beams are needed. However, considering the relative small size of belts (about 50km diameter) and the range of the mining lasers, an Orca sitting in the middle of the belt's circular centre is able to tractor any can created by miners that are not hugging the belt. (the miners have 15km range themselves, which allows them to reach the whole belt while staying in range of the Orca.) I've worked quite a few high-sec belts that were upwards of 75k.. and in my ops, the strip miners have a range of 22km. Either way, basic small tractors could be a bit too limited. Capital Tractors are, conversely, a bit too big. If medium and large tractors are not introduced in the patch, I'd suggest a maurauder style tractor range boost for the Orca. Get it up to the 40-60km range, even without the speed bonus, and it will be mightily useful. If the cost isn't too insanely high, this ship could actually turn into a decent salvager as well. New Prospector Class
gruktor	Posted - 2008.09.21 00:13:00 - [463] And still no update as to it's progress? Or when it might be on the test server? No? /sigh
Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2008.09.21 05:10:00 - [464] Originally by: Delta Bacat Clone vat While it would make the starting of the op easier, I don't feel this as really neccesary. I don't have numbers, but I wonder how many of the miners will have sufficient rep to use jump clones anyway? Jump drive I feel this would be out of place in high sec. Also, it would take away too much use of the rorq. You don't need any rep to use the clone vat bays of capital ships or 0.0 outposts. The reason these are very rarely used is because every clone that comes out of a capital ship will be blank (no implants) and in order to put the clone back in to the ship you will need to go and destroy a clone somewhere so you have enough slots to put a blank one back in. Jump drive really has to be out of the question, too much overlap with the Jump Freighter and Rorqual if it had one.
Jacob Holland Gallente Weyland-Vulcan Industries	Posted - 2008.09.24 12:10:00 - [465] Originally by: Max Essen The Orca can not fit a capital tractor beam unit, does not have jump drive capability and does note fit a clone vat bay. While, as a High Sec Vessel, I would agree that it shouldn't have Jump Drive or Clone Vat I would disagree on Capital Tractors. Capital Tractors are (to my mind) one of the defining features of the Rorqual and should be one of the defining factors of the Orca. Originally by: Max Essen Due to its specialization towards industrial operations, its ship maintenance bay is able to accommodate only industrial ships, mining barges and their tech 2 variants. (75% capacity ship array than Rorquel) I would disagree on this. The Ship Maint on the Rorqual is tied to its Clone Vat; the idea is that the Rorqual is cyno'd to the mining site, the miners then clone jump to its vats û in order that they should have ships to fly when they get there the Rorqual needs to have a Ship Maint. Because the Orca will be flying to the mining site, using Jump Gates as usual there is no need to carry mining ships, they can simply fly along with it. Refitting for Ice is easy enough as there are plenty of stations around so the other benefit of a Ship Maint is also redundant. Originally by: Max Essen Capital Industrial Ships skill bonuses: -5% reduction in fuel consumption for industrial cores per level 5% bonus to effectiveness of mining foreman gang links per level when in deployed mode 50% bonus to the range of Capital Shield Transporters per level. 20% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints per level. Industrial cores and Mining Foreman Gang links û Fine Capital Shield Transporters? I disagree. The Rorqual has shield transporters to support the tanks of ships against 0.0 rats, even a Hulk requires a Deadspace tank for those rats and the Rorqual makes it possible to sustain the tank with more usual modules. Why would the Orca need that ability? The Orca is dealing with High Sec Rats (and you can tank those on T1 already, if not civilian), possibly Lowsec Rats (but again a Hulk is quite capable of sustaining tank on those with T2). It simply doesn't require the ability in its normal sphere of operation. Some have argued that it should be able to keep a Hulk alive for long enough for Concord to deal with a Suicide attack. For a start, the Rorqual can't do that; it hasn't been balanced to hold off PvP attacks and the Orca shouldn't be. It's also an impossible goal. If the PvP opponent is determined to kill your Hulk then they will bring enough firepower to do the job regardless of the Orca. I'm also unsure about the Drone Bonus, with its drone bay, cargo bayàetc, Capital grade tank and the drone bonus it could well become one of the favoured mission ships (assuming it could get through gates) as a Dominix/Marauder equivalent. I'm not certain what I'd put in its place however. Originally by: Max Essen Role Bonuses: 300% bonus to the range of survey scanners 250% bonus to the range of small tractor beams 99% reduction in CPU need for Gang Link modules Can use 2 Gang Link modules simultaneously. With Capital Tractors it would not need the Tractor range bonus but would need a CPU bonus. It would also (AFAIK) need a similar bonus to Industrial Core fitting. I would not give it the simultaneous gang link operation though; for one it's a bonus which has no precedent û ships can either use one link or three. I would treat the Rorqual as the Fleet Command with its three links and the Orca as Field Command, only able to fit one and leave the fitting of a second as a choice for the pilot û does he wish to sacrifice a midslot for a Command Processor. Originally by: Max Essen Fitting Rorquel vs Orca High Slots: 6 4 Med Slots: 7 5 Low Slots: 3 3 I would suggest 5/5/3 for the slots, balance the ship towards an industrial core, 2 Tractors and 2 Gang links with four slots for tank, scannersàetc and a command processor. -- Originally by: cordy Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
Kal Shanai	Posted - 2008.09.24 14:12:00 - [466] My personal view is this is really a needed vessel. To be a booster in a high-sec mining op today must be the most boring part you could play in any op. You just sit there and lament your unwise choice of picking up that line of work. Having to manage tractoring in cans, compressing ore etc would really spice up the whole thing. About the drone damage and HP bonus, couldnt that be switched for either mining drone speed or yield bonuses? This would nudge it more towards whats the intended point of this ship, i.e. a mining operation support platform, MINING being the main phrase. A lot of good ideas have been popped here, and hopefully the Orca will be just what the highsec mining community needs to spice things up :)
Ruv Kaulovesh	Posted - 2008.09.25 14:30:00 - [467] i envision something a little different. there has been alot of yelling in the thread about it replacing the rorqual as a cheap replacement, i would like to see it do all the rorqual does on a smaller scale, also make it so that they can be used in supporting roles. this is the little brother of the rorqual, no cap ship equipment. no jump. my thoughts also require some of the other ideas be incorporated too tho. specificly fiewer known belts and more belts that have to be scanned down. rorqual is a fleet support vessel, orca is a wing or squad if using the fiewer belts, more scanning model the clone bay and abilty to hold a fiew miners becomes more important once the belt is found you can just send the orca and your mining team can then dock there scan frigates and jump to the orca or come out in pods from the station to meet up with it. remember people the clone bay is not an end all be all, can only jump once in 24 hours. wether the clone is kept or not i think the hanger should be kept, tho reduced to holding 3 miners and a hauler. also an option would be any ship can be used to scan, beef up its sensors to give a bonus to finding hidden belts. another reason for having the clone jump option. id realy like to see it used as a wing level command ship supporting a rorqual. let it compress, but dont give it the fuel bonus. more effective to use the rorq but could in a pinch. have it act as the wing booser, and as the central ore gatherer for the belt and then a single hauler per team could run the ore to the rorqual for compression where another hauler picks it up to be taken to whatever station is being used or maby a lighter compression. half the compression of what the rorqual can do and then the rorqual can further compress it -2% or no mod to fuel consumption for industrial core - it can use it but rorqual is far better at it. 5% bonus to bonus to effectiveness of mining foreman gang links per level when in deployed mode 50% bonus to the range of Shield Transporters per level.- little brother, not a full fledged cap ship, no cap equipment 10% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints per level. 20% bonus to standard tractor beam range per level 99% reduction in CPU need for Clone Vat Bay 99% reduction in CPU need for Gang Link modules 99% reduction in CPU need for Industrial Reconfiguration modules 99% reduction in CPU need for Tractor Beams i think this model would work very well for both ships as far as keeping both useful and not devalueing the rorqual but giving midsize corps an alternitave
shady trader	Posted - 2008.09.26 13:04:00 - [468] Originally by: Ruv Kaulovesh Edited by: Ruv Kaulovesh on 25/09/2008 14:52:34 i envision something a little different. there has been alot of yelling in the thread about it replacing the rorqual as a cheap replacement, i would like to see it do all the rorqual does on a smaller scale, also make it so that they can be used in supporting roles. this is the little brother of the rorqual, no cap ship equipment. no jump. my thoughts also require some of the other ideas be incorporated too tho. specificly fiewer known belts and more belts that have to be scanned down. rorqual is a fleet support vessel, orca is a wing or squad if using the fiewer belts, more scanning model the clone bay and abilty to hold a fiew miners becomes more important once the belt is found you can just send the orca and your mining team can then dock there scan frigates and jump to the orca or come out in pods from the station to meet up with it. remember people the clone bay is not an end all be all, can only jump once in 24 hours. wether the clone is kept or not i think the hanger should be kept, tho reduced to holding 3 miners and a hauler. also an option would be any ship can be used to scan, beef up its sensors to give a bonus to finding hidden belts. another reason for having the clone jump option. id realy like to see it used as a wing level command ship supporting a rorqual. let it compress, but dont give it the fuel bonus. more effective to use the rorq but could in a pinch. have it act as the wing booser, and as the central ore gatherer for the belt and then a single hauler per team could run the ore to the rorqual for compression where another hauler picks it up to be taken to whatever station is being used or maby a lighter compression. half the compression of what the rorqual can do and then the rorqual can further compress it -2% or no mod to fuel consumption for industrial core - it can use it but rorqual is far better at it. 5% bonus to bonus to effectiveness of mining foreman gang links per level when in deployed mode 50% bonus to the range of Shield Transporters per level.- little brother, not a full fledged cap ship, no cap equipment 10% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints per level. 20% bonus to standard tractor beam range per level 99% reduction in CPU need for Clone Vat Bay 99% reduction in CPU need for Gang Link modules 99% reduction in CPU need for Industrial Reconfiguration modules 99% reduction in CPU need for Tractor Beams drone hanger for atleast 5 medium drones and a fiew repair drones. should not be able to mount strip miners if people want to trade there defence for mining drones thats there buisness but dont see where they should particularly be given bonuses to drone mining, this is a support ship not a miner cargo around 10k (rorqual is only 20k guys) i do however agree there should be a mini freighter aswell but this isnt what the orca is. maby give that a 200k hold i think this model would work very well for both ships as far as keeping both useful and not devalueing the rorqual but giving midsize corps an alternitave That you are describing while it maybe usefull its not going to be the role of the Orca. The Orca is a high sec version of the Rorqual so its not going to be designed to work with a Rorqual as they are should not be in the same system. One should not be intering lose sec and the other cannot enter high sec. Macrointel, the place were the nature order of the universe does not hold sway. Pirates and ore thief's are congrated by carebears for the actions.
KAELA MENSHA	Posted - 2008.09.27 00:45:00 - [469] Lets face it the rorqual is the right ship, put in the wrong placeI.E. low sec
Kalderion Mar	Posted - 2008.10.01 14:40:00 - [470] Originally by: KAELA MENSHA Lets face it the rorqual is the right ship, put in the wrong placeI.E. low sec I disagree. Rorq isnt a highsec ship in any way imo. its biggest drawback is that it was designed to fulfill a role that game mechanics make very very difficult. Once upon a time, you could go to a lowsec system that was empty and mine for quite a while before anyone showed up. Now you cant. the map shows the wolves how many people are in a system after a short time, so they come investigate naturally.. then those wolves see that big misnamed ship the rorqual.. (Wounded Turkey would have been more appropriate :P ) so the rorqua; owners are finding it increasingly difficult to use them, the Orca on the other hand should never come up against this restriction. Unless of course its so pitifully weak that it is susceptible to ganking, in which case you'll see the Goons running a new campaign...
KAELA MENSHA	Posted - 2008.10.01 22:21:00 - [471] Originally by: Kalderion Mar Originally by: KAELA MENSHA Lets face it the rorqual is the right ship, put in the wrong placeI.E. low sec I disagree. Rorq isnt a highsec ship in any way imo. its biggest drawback is that it was designed to fulfill a role that game mechanics make very very difficult. Once upon a time, you could go to a lowsec system that was empty and mine for quite a while before anyone showed up. Now you cant. the map shows the wolves how many people are in a system after a short time, so they come investigate naturally.. then those wolves see that big misnamed ship the rorqual.. (Wounded Turkey would have been more appropriate :P ) so the rorqua; owners are finding it increasingly difficult to use them, the Orca on the other hand should never come up against this restriction. Unless of course its so pitifully weak that it is susceptible to ganking, in which case you'll see the Goons running a new campaign... dead right . and who can afford to lose than sort of ship but if it was in high sec would be awsome. and would proberly get used as intended. not as ore transport only
Bart Kevlar	Posted - 2008.10.04 10:03:00 - [472] For the love of all Amarrian Gods, could a CCP dev please, pretty please, with a cherry on top, give us a bloomin' update on when we might expect the Orca to debut.
KAELA MENSHA	Posted - 2008.10.04 13:44:00 - [473] Originally by: Bart Kevlar For the love of all Amarrian Gods, could a CCP dev please, pretty please, with a cherry on top, give us a bloomin' update on when we might expect the Orca to debut. And what it'll be able to do. period
A lifetaker	Posted - 2008.10.04 13:56:00 - [474] PLEASE give us some info on what it wil be able to do, what it wil cost (doesn'theve to bexact but having an idea would be nice) the ship size, its abilities and basicly everything we need to know! :P i would really love to see some proper info
Airborne Legoholic Caldari Caldari Innovative Sciences and Engineering	Posted - 2008.10.05 05:57:00 - [475] Edited by: Airborne Legoholic on 05/10/2008 05:57:04 I've just read through all of the posts and would like to ask a question and say a statement. Why does near everyone think this new ship should have capital ship advantages? Isn't the point of this ship to be a sub-capital high-sec ship? So what makes you think it will have; A clone vat? A Jump Drive? Corp Hanger? Ship Maintenence bay? Ore Compression/Industrial Reconfig? All of those are given to capital ships for a reason, THEY ARE MEANT TO HELP YOU SURVIVE IN LOW + NULL SEC. So why would you need them in high sec? So this is what I think it should have: Bonus to small tractor beams (Similar to Maurader Battleships) Bonus to Survey/Cargo scanner Range (Maybe not, this isn't too important) Ability to fit 3 Mining foreman links (Like a Command ship) 99% reduction in CPU need for Gang Link modules A sizable Cargo Bay (Half the Rorqual?)
KAELA MENSHA	Posted - 2008.10.05 13:11:00 - [476] Originally by: Airborne Legoholic Edited by: Airborne Legoholic on 05/10/2008 05:57:04 I've just read through all of the posts and would like to ask a question and say a statement. Why does near everyone think this new ship should have capital ship advantages? because they need them maybe Isn't the point of this ship to be a sub-capital high-sec ship? is it ? ok I'll believe you So what makes you think it will have; A clone vat? proberly not A Jump Drive? unlikely Corp Hanger? Ship Maintenence bay? To make it usable in exploration/mission rooms/stationless systems. Why else Ore Compression/Industrial Reconfig? nice but not nessary ----------------------------------------------------------- All of those are given to capital ships for a reason, THEY ARE MEANT TO HELP YOU SURVIVE IN LOW + NULL SEC. So why would you need them in high sec? Thought you'd read all the posts ----------------------------------------------------------- So this is what I think it should have: Bonus to small tractor beams (Similar to Maurader Battleships) ok Bonus to Survey/Cargo scanner Range (Maybe not, this isn't too important) maybe not to you ! the bonus was scan probe's btw Ability to fit 3 Mining foreman links (Like a Command ship) ok 99% reduction in CPU need for Gang Link modules go's with the above A sizable Cargo Bay (Half the Rorqual?)
GermanNightHawk Amarr Fighting While Intoxicated Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.10.07 11:58:00 - [477] I not get the point here why high sec needs anyway such a ship? The minerals need no space in high sec then the minerals in 0.0. You have in any system nearly alot stations so wth you want with such a ship in high-sec? You can use freighters and that can be reached in under 1 month....Orca should be a smaller faster edition of the rorqual...
Kasarandon Caldari Suzaku Enterprises	Posted - 2008.10.07 13:40:00 - [478] Maybe some of us miners who live in high sec and cant go to low sec (cant use ts, limited playtime etc.) would like something more a career progression?
XICD7	Posted - 2008.10.07 17:33:00 - [479] I would like to see this ship with a large cargo hold. able to equip gang modules probably be able to run 4 to 6 at the same time, and being able to equip strip miners to help the gang mining operation.
Kell Braugh	Posted - 2008.10.08 08:47:00 - [480] Originally by: shady trader ... One should not be intering lose sec and the other cannot enter high sec. Name something else in the game that you can do in high sec, but can't do in low sec or 0.0.. I'm personally interested how I could leverage an Orca in 0.0 without the cost/need to bring in the Rorq. I'm kinda disappointed that this 16 page, almost 1 year long thread has a lot of (no offence) high sec carebears wanting the easy button with ridiculous requests of some kinda mobile refinery and not enough dev's talking about even some main attibutes or abilities. - EFT screen shots are NOT an accurate example of a ship's abilities.
Narece	Posted - 2008.10.08 09:07:00 - [481] Just a thought on giving the Orca pilot something to do . Special Drones (like Fighters) ORE Dumpster : - ORCA pilot assigns a ORE DUMPSTER to Miner Pilot in Gang ( Like Fighters - Warp Local) - Orbits Miner Pilot slowly and transfers say 4000m3 ORE from Miner Pilots Cargo Bay , possibly eliminating the need for miner to use jet cans. - have them automatically return , much like mining drones. Need to manage ORE Dumpsters as they be juice rat targets. Maybe allow ORCA to fit Armour Rep or use Armour Maint Drones to keep dumpster alive when they return.
Kell Braugh	Posted - 2008.10.08 19:23:00 - [482] Originally by: Narece - Orbits Miner Pilot slowly and transfers say 4000m3 ORE from Miner Pilots Cargo Bay , possibly eliminating the need to alt+tab across my 5 mining accounts every 3 minutes .... Need to manage ORE Dumpsters as they be juice rat targets. fixed that for you. I wonder why they would think this could be abused. Yeah, cause the rats in 0.6 are just monsters on the battlefield... - EFT screen shots are NOT an accurate example of a ship's abilities.
Ean Marcus	Posted - 2008.10.12 07:57:00 - [483] Edited by: Ean Marcus on 12/10/2008 08:01:53 Originally by: Kell Braugh Originally by: Narece - Orbits Miner Pilot slowly and transfers say 4000m3 ORE from Miner Pilots Cargo Bay , possibly eliminating the need to alt+tab across my 5 mining accounts every 3 minutes .... Need to manage ORE Dumpsters as they be juice rat targets. fixed that for you. I wonder why they would think this could be abused. Yeah, cause the rats in 0.6 are just monsters on the battlefield... Transport drones sound good. And to a miner with t2 mining drones they are. I hate it when they pop my drones. Practically have to micromanage them to make sure they don't get popped right away. Probably shouldn't have this though heheh. I'd like to say a command ship designed for MINING and MINING only sounds good... Able to mine. Able to use all 3 Command links w/ 2 turrets 1 slot avail for tractor beam. 99% power reduction. Bonus to tractor beams. Bonus to mining drones w/ reduced bandwidth usage and extra drone slots. For example you get 100m3 worth of drone bay and enough BW to use 8 light or 10 mining drones with the right modules and skills. But can't out mine a HULK or COVETOR. large cargo. High resists like a command ship. The reason the command ship seems most logical is because at the moment command ship pilots in high sec space that bonus a mining fleet don't do ANYTHING but sit there. This would allow them to actually have a role rather than idling in a system by a station or playing bait.
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.10.12 11:03:00 - [484] Originally by: Ean Marcus The reason the command ship seems most logical is because at the moment command ship pilots in high sec space that bonus a mining fleet don't do ANYTHING but sit there. This would allow them to actually have a role rather than idling in a system by a station or playing bait. They can mine or kill rats as well. Don't need more than a couple of links for their highs. For example, looking at the Eos, I could put two mining links on it and 5 modulated deep core mining lasers II. For ice mining, they'd not have much to do obviously.
KAELA MENSHA	Posted - 2008.10.12 15:16:00 - [485] Originally by: Tasko Pal Originally by: Ean Marcus The reason the command ship seems most logical is because at the moment command ship pilots in high sec space that bonus a mining fleet don't do ANYTHING but sit there. This would allow them to actually have a role rather than idling in a system by a station or playing bait. They can mine or kill rats as well. Don't need more than a couple of links for their highs. For example, looking at the Eos, I could put two mining links on it and 5 modulated deep core mining lasers II. For ice mining, they'd not have much to do obviously. INTERESTING . you should try it lol
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.10.13 00:10:00 - [486] Originally by: KAELA MENSHA Originally by: Tasko Pal Originally by: Ean Marcus The reason the command ship seems most logical is because at the moment command ship pilots in high sec space that bonus a mining fleet don't do ANYTHING but sit there. This would allow them to actually have a role rather than idling in a system by a station or playing bait. They can mine or kill rats as well. Don't need more than a couple of links for their highs. For example, looking at the Eos, I could put two mining links on it and 5 modulated deep core mining lasers II. For ice mining, they'd not have much to do obviously. INTERESTING . you should try it lol A corpmate of mine does this. Otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned it. You do realize most mining in high sec is not ice mining don't you?
KAELA MENSHA	Posted - 2008.10.13 00:45:00 - [487] Originally by: Tasko Pal Originally by: KAELA MENSHA Originally by: Tasko Pal Originally by: Ean Marcus The reason the command ship seems most logical is because at the moment command ship pilots in high sec space that bonus a mining fleet don't do ANYTHING but sit there. This would allow them to actually have a role rather than idling in a system by a station or playing bait. They can mine or kill rats as well. Don't need more than a couple of links for their highs. For example, looking at the Eos, I could put two mining links on it and 5 modulated deep core mining lasers II. For ice mining, they'd not have much to do obviously. INTERESTING . you should try it lol A corpmate of mine does this. Otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned it. You do realize most mining in high sec is not ice mining don't you? Your corp mate mines ice with modulated deep core mining lasers II does he, thats a neat trick
loki gallach	Posted - 2008.10.13 00:49:00 - [488] modulated deep core miner ii The modulated deep core miner is a technological marvel that combines the capacities of the commonly used Miner II with that of the deep core mining laser. Using a modular mining crystal system, it can be altered on the fly for maximum efficiency. It's important to remember, however, that without the proper crystals this unit is only marginally useful for mining mercoxit, and highly inefficient for most anything else. ROFL
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.10.13 05:35:00 - [489] Originally by: KAELA MENSHA Your corp mate mines ice with modulated deep core mining lasers II does he, thats a neat trick We mine asteroid minerals. We buy ice products (which at the time were lower return on effort) with isk. But having said that, I don't see why I need to explain things to you. I already noted the exception. I say "sure it works except for minor case X", then you say "But it doesn't work in case X" like there's some profound point to be made. Ice mining is a specialized case.
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.10.13 05:41:00 - [490] Originally by: loki gallach modulated deep core miner ii The modulated deep core miner is a technological marvel that combines the capacities of the commonly used Miner II with that of the deep core mining laser. Using a modular mining crystal system, it can be altered on the fly for maximum efficiency. It's important to remember, however, that without the proper crystals this unit is only marginally useful for mining mercoxit, and highly inefficient for most anything else. ROFL With the proper crystal, this laser is more efficient than miner II lasers and it has a 3 minute cycle to boot. Lot to love there. A hyperion or rokh can mine a lot of ore with these things, comparable to a covetor with strip miner I's.
Vesper Lynde	Posted - 2008.10.13 18:38:00 - [491] Originally by: Tasko Pal With the proper crystal, this laser is more efficient than miner II lasers and it has a 3 minute cycle to boot. Lot to love there. A hyperion or rokh can mine a lot of ore with these things, comparable to a covetor with strip miner I's. I'll second that. I use these on a Rokh and haul in approximately 3650 m^3 every cycle(three minutes). On top of that, I have a perma-running 350+ dps omni-tank that will handle 0.0 spawns with no trouble at all and I didn't have to use anything other than a regular T2 fit to achieve it. The ship is also fully insurable in the event of loss. They are some pretty awesome mining lasers.
Jebba IV Mentally Unstable Enterprises	Posted - 2008.10.14 11:29:00 - [492] Originally by: KAELA MENSHA Originally by: Tasko Pal Originally by: Ean Marcus The reason the command ship seems most logical is because at the moment command ship pilots in high sec space that bonus a mining fleet don't do ANYTHING but sit there. This would allow them to actually have a role rather than idling in a system by a station or playing bait. They can mine or kill rats as well. Don't need more than a couple of links for their highs. For example, looking at the Eos, I could put two mining links on it and 5 modulated deep core mining lasers II. For ice mining, they'd not have much to do obviously. INTERESTING . you should try it lol Your an Idiot. the "." after "modulated deep core mining lasers II." means the sentence is complete. He did not say he uses them for ice mining.
Alrekkar	Posted - 2008.10.14 17:54:00 - [493] I would like to think of the proposed Orca as the first step in giving players an actual mining command ship for high sec space. That being said, here is my suggestion. Skills needed : - Mining Foreman V - Industry V - Anchoring III - Leadership V - Advanced Spaceship Command V The bonus and drawbacks I would give it : - 99% reduction in CPU need for Gang Link modules - 99% reduction in CPU need for Industrial Reconfiguration modules - Can compress ore when in deployed mode (requires fuel) - 200% bonus range to Tractor Beams when in deployed mode - 5% bonus to bonus to effectiveness of mining foreman gang links per level when in deployed mode - 150% bonus to the range of survey scanners when in deployed mode - 25% range boost to sentry drones when in deployed mode Drawbacks : - no turret or launcher hardpoints - Deployed mode 'anchoring' requires 5 minute time to engage, disengage and cannot anchor within 10km of another spatial object - Cannot jump without stargate (no jump drive) - Requires fuel to compress ore (100 units) - Cannot fit Cargo bay expanders due to conflicts with the deployed mode - can only deploy sentry drones Fittings: High: 4 Mid: 6 Low: 2 Calibration: 400 Cargo bay: 150,000m3 Drone bay: 300m3 Drone bandwidth: 125 Mbit can run 2 gang link modules simultaneously
KAELA MENSHA	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:18:00 - [494] Originally by: Jebba IV Originally by: KAELA MENSHA Originally by: Tasko Pal Originally by: Ean Marcus The reason the command ship seems most logical is because at the moment command ship pilots in high sec space that bonus a mining fleet don't do ANYTHING but sit there. This would allow them to actually have a role rather than idling in a system by a station or playing bait. They can mine or kill rats as well. Don't need more than a couple of links for their highs. For example, looking at the Eos, I could put two mining links on it and 5 modulated deep core mining lasers II. For ice mining, they'd not have much to do obviously. INTERESTING . you should try it lol Your an Idiot. the "." after "modulated deep core mining lasers II." means the sentence is complete. He did not say he uses them for ice mining. my apologises to tasko. bad eyesight (old age)
FireForEffect	Posted - 2008.10.15 09:11:00 - [495] I am an ice miner...so i would very much appreciate the compression job in highsec. And second is to be able to haul many cans at one time from space. The rest is quite irelevant to me as long as i can do those 2 things. PS: another thing would be to let the rorqual enter highsec...that way it's all set and no need for a replacement like the ORCA.
Breaker77	Posted - 2008.10.16 00:32:00 - [496] This might have to be renamed Rorqual's big brother, the Orca Quote: The backbone of EVE's vibrant economy, industrial ships are being rebalanced and optimized to better suit the needs of haulers and industrialists, including the latest edition to the fleet, *a massive capital* industrial ship dubbed the Orca**. Massive capital ship does not sound like a high-sec rorq.
Krylon Rhae	Posted - 2008.10.16 05:09:00 - [497] Originally by: Breaker77 This might have to be renamed Rorqual's big brother, the Orca Quote: The backbone of EVE's vibrant economy, industrial ships are being rebalanced and optimized to better suit the needs of haulers and industrialists, including the latest edition to the fleet, *a massive capital* industrial ship dubbed the Orca*. Massive capital ship does not sound like a high-sec rorq. Maybe they will finally recognize that the Road-Kill is not working as intended in low-sec so they will send it up to hi-sec and make a new low-sec "massive capital industrial ship"* to replace it in low-sec regions. The mind reels from anticipation.
Bloody Rabbit Jita Miners	Posted - 2008.10.16 05:35:00 - [498] Originally by: Krylon Rhae Maybe they will finally recognize that the Road-Kill is not working as intended in low-sec so they will send it up to hi-sec and make a new low-sec "massive capital industrial ship" to replace it in low-sec regions. The mind reels from anticipation. The Rorqual works great in low sec and 0.0 as long as it sits in a POS and compresses ore Originally by: Shadarle I notice a lot of people who are very bad at playing the market tend to want CCP to step in and remove the competition from the market so they don't continue coming in last place.[/qu
Krylon Rhae	Posted - 2008.10.16 05:52:00 - [499] Originally by: Bloody Rabbit Originally by: Krylon Rhae Maybe they will finally recognize that the Road-Kill is not working as intended in low-sec so they will send it up to hi-sec and make a new low-sec "massive capital industrial ship" to replace it in low-sec regions. The mind reels from anticipation. The Rorqual works great in low sec and 0.0 as long as it sits in a POS and compresses ore "As long as it sits in a POS..." Is this the best we could have expected from a cap ship? Sitting in the relative safety of a POS? I believe there was greater expectations from this ship and it has not delivered as originally intended. Now imagine a massive cap industrial on the order of a mothership capable of providing suppport, compressing ore, boosting miners and providing protection... now we would have a low-sec industrial capable of bringing more people into low-sec for mining and industry. just my two-cents... It would be fun to see though
loki gallach	Posted - 2008.10.16 21:34:00 - [500] I posted this on another tread but just as relevant here You had the perfect ship for the job. And you put it in low sec only. Where it now sits at a pos, compressing ore. Or used as a hauler. What a sad end for a great idea. Used in empire it would have been the centerpiece of mining operations, And provided a way for meduim sized corps to dip their toes in low sec. With out the Full blown (TIME) commitmant of a pos. also would have been used for exploration I.E grav sites Would also have encouraged low sec ninja mining on a corp scale. subject to been able to cyno back to hi sec space.
Schmalcolm	Posted - 2008.10.16 23:03:00 - [501] Here is an insanely crazy idea, but I think could possibly work if tweaked correctly: Give the Rorqual or Orca it's own bubble, a shield around it like a POS, only would come on while in siege mode. It would allow ONLY industrial ships within the shield (ie barges, haulers, that's it). Maybe make it so it can only cyno 1 or 2 systems at a time? I know, it's crazy, but it's just an idea so allow for this ship some use in low sec or 0.0.
Cherry Moon Virulence.	Posted - 2008.10.17 01:38:00 - [502] Not to sound like a party ****er but the Rorqual works exactly like it is supposed to.. you guys all seem like you want some uber wtfbbq rock pawn machine... to stip a belt down in 5 min.. The rorqual saves me a ton of time and hauling.. The way i use it is to take a blockade runner stick a small control tower in it find a spot to place the tower and yes you can fit the tower with enough fuel for 6 hours to online it put a cyno on your blockade runner and jump the rorqual to your now online tower and place the rest of your fuel and mods with the rorqual now have your corp m8's clone to the rorquals clone vat bay jump in there hulks and industrials and start mining away then the rorqual can sit inside the tower and compress your ore..and jump it back to where you need to reprocess it... yes you can stick the rorqual in a belt and seige it but who in there right mind would do that.... i dont care if you have a titan if you put any ships in a belt your asking for trouble.. it becomes a target and a nice one at that.. so for everyone thats whining about the rorqual that it doesnt do this or that... read the disc of the ship it works exactly as it's supposed to and saves me a ton of time... i can either haul all that dark glitter i mine back 1 industrial at a time or i can stick 1030 blocks of ice inside the rorqual and jump it back to home... Just my opionion Cherry
Kalderion Mar	Posted - 2008.10.17 04:44:00 - [503] Originally by: Cherry Moon Not to sound like a party ****er but the Rorqual works exactly like it is supposed to.. you guys all seem like you want some uber wtfbbq rock pawn machine... to stip a belt down in 5 min.. The rorqual saves me a ton of time and hauling.. The way i use it is to take a blockade runner stick a small control tower in it find a spot to place the tower and yes you can fit the tower with enough fuel for 6 hours to online it put a cyno on your blockade runner and jump the rorqual to your now online tower and place the rest of your fuel and mods with the rorqual now have your corp m8's clone to the rorquals clone vat bay jump in there hulks and industrials and start mining away then the rorqual can sit inside the tower and compress your ore..and jump it back to where you need to reprocess it... yes you can stick the rorqual in a belt and seige it but who in there right mind would do that.... i dont care if you have a titan if you put any ships in a belt your asking for trouble.. it becomes a target and a nice one at that.. so for everyone thats whining about the rorqual that it doesnt do this or that... read the disc of the ship it works exactly as it's supposed to and saves me a ton of time... i can either haul all that dark glitter i mine back 1 industrial at a time or i can stick 1030 blocks of ice inside the rorqual and jump it back to home... Just my opionion Cherry I respectfully disagree... perhaps its just My luck, and the luck of those ive seen trying it lately, but the last 4 times Ive set up my alts Rorq ( lowsec three times, 0.0 once) its lasted about an hour. 20 to 40 minutes after set up and start mining exactly as you suggested someone shows up uninvited... they cloak, they wait, 15 to 30 minutes after that, a fleet warps in and starts beating on the small pos. These systems were scouted, empty, unused and unwanted. I thought at first i was just unlucky.. but since i gave up, ive seen it happen to a friends corp twice, they have also given up. an hour mining with 5 hulks and you about break even on the small pos and fuel etc. I'm not saying it cant be done, but to me it is no longer worth the effort of spending the hours of scouting and the price of a small pos and fuel. IF.. they took out the option on the map to show how many people were in a system, it might be easier to pull off ninja mining ops. Most of 0.0 is unused, there's a reason for that, the big alliances guard their areas jealously.. even though they dont WANT the system... they dont want YOU in it either. If your pulling it off, KUDOS I'm quite glad someone is getting away with it :) I have to agree with the others, to me, the rorqual was a waste of my time and ISK. No "bubble" produced by the rorqual, Uber drones / fighters, or anything else they could do to it would make it functional as intended. if it got beefed up to mothership status, there would just be a larger fleet coming to kill it. If the orca can pick up cans, compress and give bonus's.. I will at least use it, unlike its big brother the rorqual, that now sits in its hanger rusting. Next time i try to start it, the battery will probably be dead.
Krylon Rhae	Posted - 2008.10.17 04:58:00 - [504] Edited by: Krylon Rhae on 17/10/2008 04:59:12 With all due respect, the "Road-Kill" was not intended to sit ideally bye at a POS compressing ore and giving bonuses. If this was the original intention they could have compressed ore with an industrial POS module and simply beefed up the bonuses for command ships. It is a very weak gank target as designed and this should be fixed so the poor thing can come out of hiding. Imagine spending more than 2-bil on a glorified POS Module. Good grief.
Kalderion Mar	Posted - 2008.10.17 05:28:00 - [505] Originally by: Krylon Rhae Edited by: Krylon Rhae on 17/10/2008 04:59:12 With all due respect, the "Road-Kill" was not intended to sit ideally bye at a POS compressing ore and giving bonuses. If this was the original intention they could have compressed ore with an industrial POS module and simply beefed up the bonuses for command ships. It is a very weak gank target as designed and this should be fixed so the poor thing can come out of hiding. Imagine spending more than 2-bil on a glorified POS Module. Good grief. No they actually intended it to sit in a belt... makes you wonder about the people creating content at times aye? If you have alliance protected space, where you get plenty of warning if hostiles are coming down the pipe, there is no reason it cant sit in a belt... but as far as getting small corps into 0.0.. that was an epic fail (IMO).. and its also my opinion, that nothing they could do to it would protect it. Somehow limiting the amount of territory an alliance can control, or, as i said above, removing the show pilots in space option from the map, to allow it to remain undetected in its temporary pos for ninja ops are about the only way i see it becoming useful "as intended" As far as a 2 bil pos module.. id agree, though it can be used somewhat for hauling pos fuel and getting corpies clones out to 0.0.
Krylon Rhae	Posted - 2008.10.17 05:36:00 - [506] Originally by: Kalderion Mar Originally by: Krylon Rhae Edited by: Krylon Rhae on 17/10/2008 04:59:12 With all due respect, the "Road-Kill" was not intended to sit ideally bye at a POS compressing ore and giving bonuses. If this was the original intention they could have compressed ore with an industrial POS module and simply beefed up the bonuses for command ships. It is a very weak gank target as designed and this should be fixed so the poor thing can come out of hiding. Imagine spending more than 2-bil on a glorified POS Module. Good grief. No they actually intended it to sit in a belt... makes you wonder about the people creating content at times aye? If you have alliance protected space, where you get plenty of warning if hostiles are coming down the pipe, there is no reason it cant sit in a belt... but as far as getting small corps into 0.0.. that was an epic fail (IMO).. and its also my opinion, that nothing they could do to it would protect it. Somehow limiting the amount of territory an alliance can control, or, as i said above, removing the show pilots in space option from the map, to allow it to remain undetected in its temporary pos for ninja ops are about the only way i see it becoming useful "as intended" As far as a 2 bil pos module.. id agree, though it can be used somewhat for hauling pos fuel and getting corpies clones out to 0.0. I agree... I think you and I are in basic agreement. It's ashame the Road-Kill hasn't worked out. I was really hoping that it would be a boon to low/null sec mining. Let's hope they can give it a make-over so it could fullfill its original mission.
Elbert Ainstein The Engineer Corp.	Posted - 2008.10.17 13:47:00 - [507] Originally by: Narece Just a thought on giving the Orca pilot something to do . Special Drones (like Fighters) ORE Dumpster : - ORCA pilot assigns a ORE DUMPSTER to Miner Pilot in Gang ( Like Fighters - Warp Local) - Orbits Miner Pilot slowly and transfers say 4000m3 ORE from Miner Pilots Cargo Bay , possibly eliminating the need for miner to use jet cans. - have them automatically return , much like mining drones. Whoa, I really like this idea! Would be absolutely great to remove the need for jet cans.
Apixeuj Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.17 16:30:00 - [508] Went through most of the posts. Seen a lot of good requests. Did not see one about Hold space large enough to haul a Freight Container. With this in mind, hold capacity to haul a Freight container would allow for a lot of ore storage. My poor Iteron V needs a vacation. During Corp mining ops, it gets a real beating and so do I.
Dr Prometheus Caldari Gears of Construction	Posted - 2008.10.17 20:14:00 - [509] Originally by: Dr Prometheus Edited by: Dr Prometheus on 17/10/2008 20:12:38 Edited by: Dr Prometheus on 17/10/2008 20:00:05 Edited by: Dr Prometheus on 17/10/2008 19:57:28 Edited by: Dr Prometheus on 17/10/2008 19:46:49 Edited by: Dr Prometheus on 17/10/2008 19:43:16 Edited by: Dr Prometheus on 17/10/2008 19:42:21 And here is the shape thingy something: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/orca.JPG http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/orca2.JPG And with textures (Not the correct skin i think though, but it has orca as name): http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/orcaskin.JPG & another: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/orcableu.JPG And a little movie: http://eve-files.com/dl/175929 p.s.: I can open the gate thingies will post them soon(tm). Edit: here 2 border gates (Amarr) without textures: http://eve-files.com/dl/175930 - http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/gate2.JPG and the smugglergate: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/smugglergate.JPG Here it is. - Dude where is my Charon? -
Kalderion Mar	Posted - 2008.10.17 20:51:00 - [510] Nice, those official? if they are im quite happy with how it looks, as opposed to the rorq, that llooks like a cobbleld together river raft
Dr Prometheus Caldari Gears of Construction	Posted - 2008.10.17 21:13:00 - [511] Well, i found them in my SiSi client. with TriExporter, so i think its official. - Dude where is my Charon? -
Alpha Dorn	Posted - 2008.10.17 22:44:00 - [512] Nice find. And the ship looks pretty cool. Too bad it's still not on SiSi. I'd like to see what the skills needed for it are.
Lustralis	Posted - 2008.10.17 23:49:00 - [513] Originally by: Alpha Dorn Edited by: Alpha Dorn on 17/10/2008 22:53:27 Nice find. And the ship looks pretty cool. Too bad it's still not on SiSi. I'd like to see what the skills needed for it are. My concern is that there's a big difference between what we wanted (a high-sec mining command ship), and what we got (it looks a little more like a freighter). So, when the stats start to come out, i'll feel a little better. To be honest I'm a bit concerned about the whole concept. What we want/need is a viable low sec/0.0 mining command ship, not a high sec one. Perhaps CCP can fix the rorqual as well to make it viable in its role and not a kill-board statistic? The only fun I had with the rorqual was on the test server :(.
Alpha Dorn	Posted - 2008.10.18 00:46:00 - [514] Originally by: Lustralis To be honest I'm a bit concerned about the whole concept. What we want/need is a viable low sec/0.0 mining command ship, not a high sec one. Perhaps CCP can fix the rorqual as well to make it viable in its role and not a kill-board statistic? The only fun I had with the rorqual was on the test server :(. With the Rorqual, I really think it came down to what the devs intended it to be, and how it was used once it got into the hands of users. I agree, it's under-developed for the role that it's supposed to play and, as it is currently, nothing but a big target. Will CCP fix this; I doubt it. But, for those of us in high-sec, a ship that gives mining command bonuses and can compress ore is all we really need to facilitate the big mining ops. But, it still comes down to how devs think the ship will fit into the current world and real-world usage. So, until SiSi gets it, we just won't know.
Krylon Rhae	Posted - 2008.10.18 03:50:00 - [515] Edited by: Krylon Rhae on 18/10/2008 03:52:42 Alpha... agree on the "road-kill"... hoping for a redo on that one. Dr. P... Thanks for the pics... looks interesting. As they have said it would be an in-between industrial/freighter and it does seem to follow along the lines of the Caldari freighter - long and wide thin box. Hope the inner workings and boost/slot configs give us the hi-sec mining command ship we were looking for. Wondering if the ship will be a plain mini-freighter with modules added to give the in-belt mining op a boost/compression capability. /me keeping fingers crossed...
Dr Prometheus Caldari Gears of Construction	Posted - 2008.10.18 06:46:00 - [516] Well if i zoom in a little it seems to have some details like the rorqual, and some parts are seem to be "movable". like a deploying Rorqual. But since when does ORE Syndicate care about the looks - Dude where is my Charon? -
Krylon Rhae	Posted - 2008.10.18 10:19:00 - [517] The six elongated can-like structures do look as though they may hinge downward from the central spine. Not sure what happens to the pods on top though. It would be cool to watch it go into industrial mode like the Road-kill.
Alpha Dorn	Posted - 2008.10.19 05:37:00 - [518] Edited by: Alpha Dorn on 19/10/2008 05:37:41 What i'm still concerned about are the needed stats. There is a guy in this thread stating that a bughunter found it and the needed skills are basically the same as the Rorqual, minus the jump operation skills. To me, that just doesn't seem right because, since when does Concord like cap ships in Empire? But, then again, these just may be placeholders and the real stats are still as of yet to be reveled. Oh well. Thanks for keeping us in the dark until the very last minute CCP. We'll just sit here and continue to speculate wildly.
Clansworth Burning Sky Labs Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.10.19 07:52:00 - [519] Originally by: Alpha Dorn Edited by: Alpha Dorn on 19/10/2008 05:37:41 What i'm still concerned about are the needed stats. There is a guy in this thread stating that a bughunter found it and the needed skills are basically the same as the Rorqual, minus the jump operation skills. I also said that those stats are obviously unfinished, and not to be taken too seriously. I think it will change, as Capital Industrial Ships, while it makes sense for this, is hurt by it's very expensive skillbook costs (CIS and Capital Ships books are both VERY expensive). It's hard to try to get Empire carebears to shell out for Capital Ships skill, when they are only using it for the Orca. POS Personal Storage
Dr Prometheus Caldari Gears of Construction	Posted - 2008.10.19 08:44:00 - [520] Originally by: Alpha Dorn Edited by: Alpha Dorn on 19/10/2008 05:37:41 What i'm still concerned about are the needed stats. There is a guy in this thread stating that a bughunter found it and the needed skills are basically the same as the Rorqual, minus the jump operation skills. To me, that just doesn't seem right because, since when does Concord like cap ships in Empire? [...] Well, arent the Freighter and Jump Freighter a bit like Capital ships too? (ok they dont need the skill but they are the size of it.) - Dude where is my Charon? -
spud maur Gallente IBF2	Posted - 2008.10.19 13:53:00 - [521] that kinda looks like a Charon. what im wondering is will the Belts get an increase in size now because we get this ship? because as it stands the belts aint that big to require such a ship..?
Kalderion Mar	Posted - 2008.10.19 14:23:00 - [522] Yup, does look like a freighter.. Also said in their press release that it was a "Massive Industrial Cap Ship" so, at this point I am hoping for basically a small rorqual without the jump drive. My concerns though... Rorqual is a pain enough to deal with juggling ores, compressed ores, BPO's etc etc etc.. I cant imagine doing much of it with a smaller cargo hold, the difference being if a freighter can load and unload from it.. only time wil tell.. looking forward to it.
Clansworth Burning Sky Labs Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.10.19 17:05:00 - [523] Originally by: Dr Prometheus Originally by: Alpha Dorn Edited by: Alpha Dorn on 19/10/2008 05:37:41 What i'm still concerned about are the needed stats. There is a guy in this thread stating that a bughunter found it and the needed skills are basically the same as the Rorqual, minus the jump operation skills. To me, that just doesn't seem right because, since when does Concord like cap ships in Empire? [...] Well, arent the Freighter and Jump Freighter a bit like Capital ships too? (ok they dont need the skill but they are the size of it.) I believe what the empires don't like are Cyno's and Jump drives. Some sort of a public safety issue i believe (Yeah, I'm pulling this out of my ASS). Notice they allow the Jump freighter and Black ops in empire, but that can't use the jump drive there. (every empire system has a Cyno Jammer, to keep the public safe from wild crazy space-time ripping sci-fi mumbo-jumbo anomalies) POS Personal Storage
Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2008.10.19 17:08:00 - [524] Originally by: Clansworth I believe what the empires don't like are Cyno's and Jump drives. Some sort of a public safety issue i believe (Yeah, I'm pulling this out of my ASS). Notice they allow the Jump freighter and Black ops in empire, but that can't use the jump drive there. (every empire system has a Cyno Jammer, to keep the public safe from wild crazy space-time ripping sci-fi mumbo-jumbo anomalies) You can use the jump drive in empire, you just can't light a cyno. Which means jump out, but not in. Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans CCP is a greedy money chewing monster
Marcus Atntony	Posted - 2008.10.19 19:32:00 - [525] You know sounds like this will be a great isk sink/war target in empire for would be empire industrial corps that have a clue what they are doing :P
Fergus Runkle Minmatar Truth and Reconciliation Council	Posted - 2008.10.19 21:41:00 - [526] Edited by: Fergus Runkle on 19/10/2008 21:42:51 Edited by: Fergus Runkle on 19/10/2008 21:42:13 Something about those images nagged at me. Those large pod's (presumably for cargo) down the sides are very reminisant of a type of ship shown in Babylon 5. The only image I've managed to find is on this site. http://www.smikesworld.dk/smworld/indexb5.html Look under Earth Alliance, Commercial Transports and then "zero-g kneale class heavy transport"
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.10.20 01:29:00 - [527] Originally by: Fergus Runkle Edited by: Fergus Runkle on 19/10/2008 21:42:51 Edited by: Fergus Runkle on 19/10/2008 21:42:13 Something about those images nagged at me. Those large pod's (presumably for cargo) down the sides are very reminisant of a type of ship shown in Babylon 5. The only image I've managed to find is on this site. http://www.smikesworld.dk/smworld/indexb5.html Look under Earth Alliance, Commercial Transports and then "zero-g kneale class heavy transport" Damn that is one really screwed up website. I can't link directly to the page with the information (when I tried, it bounced me to a standard page), but you can find it by scrolling to the bottom and searching for "kneale class".
Krylon Rhae	Posted - 2008.10.20 08:49:00 - [528] yeppers.. a lot of similarity. I hear the thud of originality falling to the floor.
D Gelalder Gallente Core Antum	Posted - 2008.10.20 09:25:00 - [529] Originally by: Fergus Runkle Edited by: Fergus Runkle on 19/10/2008 21:42:51 Edited by: Fergus Runkle on 19/10/2008 21:42:13 Something about those images nagged at me. Those large pod's (presumably for cargo) down the sides are very reminisant of a type of ship shown in Babylon 5. The only image I've managed to find is on this site. http://www.smikesworld.dk/smworld/indexb5.html Look under Earth Alliance, Commercial Transports and then "zero-g kneale class heavy transport" That is one horrible site, anyways the ship is called the "Achilles"
Cherry Moon Phantom Squad Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.10.20 11:49:00 - [530] Originally by: Kalderion Mar Originally by: Cherry Moon Not to sound like a party ****er but the Rorqual works exactly like it is supposed to.. you guys all seem like you want some uber wtfbbq rock pawn machine... to stip a belt down in 5 min.. The rorqual saves me a ton of time and hauling.. The way i use it is to take a blockade runner stick a small control tower in it find a spot to place the tower and yes you can fit the tower with enough fuel for 6 hours to online it put a cyno on your blockade runner and jump the rorqual to your now online tower and place the rest of your fuel and mods with the rorqual now have your corp m8's clone to the rorquals clone vat bay jump in there hulks and industrials and start mining away then the rorqual can sit inside the tower and compress your ore..and jump it back to where you need to reprocess it... yes you can stick the rorqual in a belt and seige it but who in there right mind would do that.... i dont care if you have a titan if you put any ships in a belt your asking for trouble.. it becomes a target and a nice one at that.. so for everyone thats whining about the rorqual that it doesnt do this or that... read the disc of the ship it works exactly as it's supposed to and saves me a ton of time... i can either haul all that dark glitter i mine back 1 industrial at a time or i can stick 1030 blocks of ice inside the rorqual and jump it back to home... Just my opionion Cherry I respectfully disagree... perhaps its just My luck, and the luck of those ive seen trying it lately, but the last 4 times Ive set up my alts Rorq ( lowsec three times, 0.0 once) its lasted about an hour. 20 to 40 minutes after set up and start mining exactly as you suggested someone shows up uninvited... they cloak, they wait, 15 to 30 minutes after that, a fleet warps in and starts beating on the small pos. These systems were scouted, empty, unused and unwanted. I thought at first i was just unlucky.. but since i gave up, ive seen it happen to a friends corp twice, they have also given up. an hour mining with 5 hulks and you about break even on the small pos and fuel etc. I'm not saying it cant be done, but to me it is no longer worth the effort of spending the hours of scouting and the price of a small pos and fuel. IF.. they took out the option on the map to show how many people were in a system, it might be easier to pull off ninja mining ops. Most of 0.0 is unused, there's a reason for that, the big alliances guard their areas jealously.. even though they dont WANT the system... they dont want YOU in it either. If your pulling it off, KUDOS I'm quite glad someone is getting away with it :) I have to agree with the others, to me, the rorqual was a waste of my time and ISK. No "bubble" produced by the rorqual, Uber drones / fighters, or anything else they could do to it would make it functional as intended. if it got beefed up to mothership status, there would just be a larger fleet coming to kill it. If the orca can pick up cans, compress and give bonus's.. I will at least use it, unlike its big brother the rorqual, that now sits in its hanger rusting. Next time i try to start it, the battery will probably be dead. Well where i set mine up is in alliance space so it's defended by the alliance... CCP never said this ship was made for ninja mining it's not a " pirate roid Vessel as in anything out in 0.0 you need security. That just comes with the area... so how can you say the ship was a poor design when it works exactly as it's intended. To that end, the Rorqual's primary strength lies in its ability to grind raw ores into particles of smaller size than possible before, while still maintaining their distinctive molecular structure. This means the vessel is able to carry vast amounts of ore in compressed form. Additionally, the Rorqual is able to fit a capital tractor beam unit, capable of pulling in cargo containers from far greater distances.
Cherry Moon Phantom Squad Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.10.20 11:54:00 - [531] according to the ship disc it does exactly as it's supposed to... you cant blame you inability to secure a system or mine in another alliance's space for the rorqual not working... thats just well plain stupid. IMO you need to just stay in hi-sec chewing on veld. making your 8 mil isk per hour or join a alliance that has and can secure it's low sec 0.0 space well... Thanks Cherry
Kalderion Mar	Posted - 2008.10.20 13:52:00 - [532] Originally by: Cherry Moon according to the ship disc it does exactly as it's supposed to... you cant blame you inability to secure a system or mine in another alliance's space for the rorqual not working... thats just well plain stupid. IMO you need to just stay in hi-sec chewing on veld. making your 8 mil isk per hour or join a alliance that has and can secure it's low sec 0.0 space well... Thanks Cherry Yes, your correct, according to the description, it does do exactly what its supposed to do. I was refering to Chronitis's statement about it helping to get more of the smaller corps to 0.0 in one of the threads before it (the Rorqual) was released. thats what I based my hopes and plans on. Actually it worked for a while, until people cought on to it. Originally by: Cherry Moon you cant blame you inability to secure a system or mine in another alliance's space for the rorqual not working... thats just well plain stupid. I agree thats not the Rorquals fault, its the fault of game design and intent, it was the intent by the devs that it also work in this manner. IT WAS their intent that it could be used for ninja mining ops, as well as alliance controlled space. but the game mechanics more or less ruin that option. then again, it was also their intent that it be used in a belt... Maybe in your alliance controlled space it could be used in a belt. Originally by: Cherry Moon IMO you need to just stay in hi-sec chewing on veld. making your 8 mil isk per hour or join a alliance that has and can secure it's low sec 0.0 space well... ? No thank you, I do quite well enough without a big alliance to ruin the game for me and make demands, tell me where i go and what I do, and how to do it... Tell me i need to mine so much per week, that I need to do missions at least three days a week, tell me that I HAVE to go out on the combat op every other day... Not Happening, been there, done that. Coming from someone thats been in over 20 different corps, I would think you of all people would understand that. Thanks Kal
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.10.20 16:03:00 - [533] Originally by: Kalderion Mar I agree thats not the Rorquals fault, its the fault of game design and intent, it was the intent by the devs that it also work in this manner. IT WAS their intent that it could be used for ninja mining ops, as well as alliance controlled space. but the game mechanics more or less ruin that option. then again, it was also their intent that it be used in a belt... Maybe in your alliance controlled space it could be used in a belt. What's the problem here? I take it, a ninja op would jump the rorqual in with the mining ships in its hangar. While the op is going on, the rorqual would cloak in safespots providing its mining bonuses to the fleet. And the rorqual would jump out if someone probes. It's silly to think that it'd be used in the same way that it'd be used in space you control. And if you need the mineral compression, anchor a small POS. I doubt CCP thought ninja miners would use a Rorqual sitting in a belt.
Bloody Rabbit Jita Miners	Posted - 2008.10.20 17:19:00 - [534] Originally by: Tasko Pal What's the problem here? I take it, a ninja op would jump the rorqual in with the mining ships in its hangar. While the op is going on, the rorqual would cloak in safespots providing its mining bonuses to the fleet. And the rorqual would jump out if someone probes. It's silly to think that it'd be used in the same way that it'd be used in space you control. And if you need the mineral compression, anchor a small POS. I doubt CCP thought ninja miners would use a Rorqual sitting in a belt. Can't cloak and get bonuses Originally by: Shadarle I notice a lot of people who are very bad at playing the market tend to want CCP to step in and remove the competition from the market so they don't continue coming in last place.[/qu
Kalderion Mar	Posted - 2008.10.20 20:08:00 - [535] Originally by: Tasko Pal What's the problem here? I take it, a ninja op would jump the rorqual in with the mining ships in its hangar. While the op is going on, the rorqual would cloak in safespots providing its mining bonuses to the fleet. And the rorqual would jump out if someone probes. It's silly to think that it'd be used in the same way that it'd be used in space you control. And if you need the mineral compression, anchor a small POS. I doubt CCP thought ninja miners would use a Rorqual sitting in a belt. Thats about exactly how it goes, though we always set up a small pos for safety. very careful about where we set it up, make sure to scout well etc etc.. unfortunately the map shows people in system after a certain amount of time, and can only assume thats why within an hour we have hostiles, and shortly after that we end up cynoing out and sacrificing the small pos. last 4 attempts went bad, have now seen three more attempts by friends go bad as well. I was just venting my frustrations with the Rorq and how It was no longer working how "I" preferred to use it, so no worries. Def glad to hear that some folks are still making it work well.
McFly C0LDFIRE RUDE Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.22 10:18:00 - [536] I've seen the rorq implemented in many ops, the key is..... You keep the thing in the pos where it sits compressing. Set up bubbles on gates and sucking bubbles at the belt from the gates. (Large T2 are best) Keep the Miners aligned to the POS. And have some PVPers camping the system. set scouts out side the system or up the pipe a little ways, and pay attention to what's going on. Local Spikes, safe the industrials, swap ships in the pos for PVP and go kill the would be rorq gankers.
Cherry Moon Phantom Squad Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.10.22 12:44:00 - [537] Originally by: McFly I've seen the rorq implemented in many ops, the key is..... You keep the thing in the pos where it sits compressing. Set up bubbles on gates and sucking bubbles at the belt from the gates. (Large T2 are best) Keep the Miners aligned to the POS. And have some PVPers camping the system. set scouts out side the system or up the pipe a little ways, and pay attention to what's going on. Local Spikes, safe the industrials, swap ships in the pos for PVP and go kill the would be rorq gankers. This man has a Clue... Nice on the bubbles did not think of the bubbles from the gates in the belts.. will have to try that
Bloody Rabbit Jita Miners	Posted - 2008.10.22 14:34:00 - [538] Originally by: Cherry Moon Nice on the bubbles did not think of the bubbles from the gates in the belts.. will have to try that You can use recons to scout a system and start laying down large T2 bubbles. I prefer to set a scout on the gate coming in with a bubble on it and a bubble on the other side with the miners. This will give everyone a chance to get to the pos before anyone can get in. And beware of the lone ship in local, I have had mining ops hot dropped by a capital fleet. Originally by: Shadarle I notice a lot of people who are very bad at playing the market tend to want CCP to step in and remove the competition from the market so they don't continue coming in last place.[/qu
Vigilant Gallente Vigilant's Vigilante's	Posted - 2008.10.22 16:48:00 - [539] Mining Bonus's Compression Someway to eliminate jet cans... For the love all that is holy CCP do this Seed the BPO in Empire...don't make it another death run out to Outer Ring Cost a bit less than freighter to build And finally doesn't require Capital Ships skill to fly. Freighters do not, why would somthing smaller w/o a jump drive need the skill.
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.10.22 17:37:00 - [540] Originally by: Vigilant Seed the BPO in Empire...don't make it another death run out to Outer Ring Cost a bit less than freighter to build And finally doesn't require Capital Ships skill to fly. Freighters do not, why would somthing smaller w/o a jump drive need the skill. Here's my take. I agree with the above except for seeding the BPO in empire. Death runs to Outer Ring are fun and keep up profit margins for greedy manufacturers (like me!).
Davik Rendar Open All Hours	Posted - 2008.10.23 01:25:00 - [541] For all those who want to get as much info as possible seeing as CCP is so vague on details. Here's a couple more images of the mysterious new ORE ship Orca Orca 2
Caldreis Caldari White Star Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.10.23 01:39:00 - [542] Do you know where those orca picture are from? I am curious.
Davik Rendar Open All Hours	Posted - 2008.10.23 02:29:00 - [543] I time travelled into the future and took the screenshots, then came back to post them Ok, maybe not... I exported the model from the Singularity data files and rendered it in a 3D application. So it's not an in-game screenshot, but it is the actual model.
McFly C0LDFIRE RUDE Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.23 03:08:00 - [544] Edited by: McFly on 23/10/2008 03:09:19 here's a generic question. When the rorq goes into deployed mode, does the model simply reconfigure, or is there a transition animation on the old model and then the engine loads a seperate deployed rorq model? If so anyone able to look into the sisi data for a deployed orca? I haven't seen it for some time, but I'm fairly sure that the rorq would kinda shift in space after the animation kinda like anchoring pos modules used to. Might be an indicator of a seperate model. I'm probably just crazy tho
Davik Rendar Open All Hours	Posted - 2008.10.23 05:33:00 - [545] Originally by: McFly Edited by: McFly on 23/10/2008 03:09:19 here's a generic question. When the rorq goes into deployed mode, does the model simply reconfigure, or is there a transition animation on the old model and then the engine loads a seperate deployed rorq model? If so anyone able to look into the sisi data for a deployed orca? I haven't seen it for some time, but I'm fairly sure that the rorq would kinda shift in space after the animation kinda like anchoring pos modules used to. Might be an indicator of a seperate model. I'm probably just crazy tho On the premium client there is only 1 rorq model that reconfiguires. On the classic client there is a base hull model, with the extra pod models that rotate seperately. There is no seperate deployed model on either client. Hope that answers your question
Rakaim 19th Star Logistics	Posted - 2008.10.24 01:53:00 - [546] That there spaceship looks like... gasp A SPACESHIP!?
Rupicolous Higher Ground	Posted - 2008.11.04 05:49:00 - [547] I want a 1/4 cargo capacity freighter that can interact with jet cans using extended range while utilizing gang mods at the same time. Just the hauler/command ship in one with a boost to range for tractors and scans. Everyone I know is tired of using an alt just to move ice back to a station every other 5 minutes.
Rupicolous Higher Ground	Posted - 2008.11.04 06:18:00 - [548] Leave the Capital skills out if it. It's not a Capital and Capitals don't fly in High sec. !!!
Plekto Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.04 15:52:00 - [549] Wow what a terrible skill list. And the price... What we need badly is a larger hauler in the 50 mil price range than is basically an Iteron X. No jump drive. Nothing fancy - just 50-100K base space. I'd even settle for no rig slots, either and 100K flat cargo space(can't fit expanders). Four years we've been asking for this and we get yet another ship that doesn't fill a real demand or role. I just don't get why they keep adding high-end ships and don't address the problems with the smaller ones or just fix bugs instead. The ship, combined with the new 30 day tokens is just giving the Chinabots and macro-miners free reign. I'm not unhappy since I don't mine, but seriously - this is going to have bad results for most of high sec.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2008.11.04 16:25:00 - [550] Originally by: Plekto The ship, combined with the new 30 day tokens is just giving the Chinabots and macro-miners free reign. I'm not unhappy since I don't mine, but seriously - this is going to have bad results for most of high sec. You have to be in the same corporation to access the hanger bays which eliminates the China bots. None of them ever leave a NPC corp for fear of war dec. So you can rest assured that the chances of a chinabot using a Orca is next to null.
Nabukanozor	Posted - 2008.11.04 23:13:00 - [551] Mhhh macroers not going to use the Orca, well dream on, sure by now they have a patch up and running on Sissi. Just look at an ice field, I am not mentioning the obvious bots who anyway tend to be more rare, but the numbers of hulks ice harvesting, warping back and forth to the nearest station to unload, repeat and rinse. They are all look alike normal players with bio, employment history and in corps. Simply mining ice while their pilot is nicely cuddled in his bed or at work.

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