EVE Search - CynoJammer: What exactly is the issue?

Check My IP Information

All Channels

Corporation, Alliance and Organization Discussions

CynoJammer: What exactly is the issue?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 11 12 13 .. 13 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Pinpisa Jormao	Posted - 2008.03.10 19:08:00 - [181] Originally by: maralt last i checked it did not take 2 hours to jump while node was lagged, or did it?
Nlewis GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.10 19:08:00 - [182] Edited by: Nlewis on 10/03/2008 19:10:47 ships that require cynos should not be able to activate modules under a cynojammer maybe call it a capital jammer?
Shin Ra Shinra Shinra Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.10 19:27:00 - [183] Isn't the problem just that defenders can destroy it and put up another one so the gap is only 30 minutes or so. Why not make it longer?
Goca KAOS. Rule of Three	Posted - 2008.03.10 19:33:00 - [184] Originally by: Desiderata Fabian Edited by: Desiderata Fabian on 10/03/2008 18:38:03 Originally by: Desiderata Fabian Having invested alot of money in the defence, the attacker is than not allowed to invest that amount of money on the attack, because of the cynojammer. Your argument is one for an unbreakable defence, and in the light of the steady power creep and isk inflation in this game one that eventualy everyone will be able to employ. Originally by: Goca Originally by: Desiderata Fabian Also "I have spent more money than you ergo I should win" is not the kind of thing eve grabs me as being about. Neither is it, "if you can bring more numbers, (even with inferior ships) you should win" Yeah the system is cynojamed, a massive fleet of BS are the only thing you can get into it, that was what we are talking about. But you know that because you read the part of my post that you deleted, right? so I guess you'll need a massive fleet of bs then.. I think the problem lies in that you no longer have a massive fleet of bs to go into the system because so many allies got the shaft when they came down to help out. Methinks that is the problem, not the cynojammer.. food for thought
Sentinel Eeex Caldari DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.10 19:40:00 - [185] Originally by: Athena Attom Originally by: Sentinel Eeex Originally by: Athena Attom Ummm you took down NOL- jammer by pretending to go for the J-L one then burning to pr- why not try the same thing? Your tactical brilliance leads me to beleive that you are, in fact, Yaay himself Please thats a pretty low blow. I am mearly pointing out that you have used several tactics to take down the jammer before we can even react there is nothing new its just your pilots dont want to log in and do it. Not the game mechanics itself, its your failings. Fair enough, I apologize and retract my statement (noone can be as bad as Yaay ). What I was trying to say is that you were pointing the obvious.
Desiderata Fabian GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.10 20:13:00 - [186] Originally by: Goca Neither is it, "if you can bring more numbers, (even with inferior ships) you should win" Originally by: Goca so I guess you'll need a massive fleet of bs then.. I think the problem lies in that you no longer have a massive fleet of bs to go into the system because so many allies got the shaft when they came down to help out. Methinks that is the problem, not the cynojammer.. food for thought Yeah I can't even work out what your point is anymore, was it that we have numbers and think we should win or that we don't have numbers and deserve to lose?
Cyberspatial Simulacra Caldari PROGENITOR CORPORATION Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.03.10 20:15:00 - [187] I thought the obvious answer to a cynojammer was a cloaked Ibis with a cargo hold full of bombs and a large afterburner set to ramming speed. shrugs Oh well, back to the drawing board. ------------------------- Hur hur, me fly in space!
Spike Spiegle Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.10 20:24:00 - [188] I think it will be interesting to see what happens when BOB finnaly do loose their space. My money is on ccp suddenly desciding that a sov 3 system with a jammer and titans is too much and it coincedently being nerfed... Just my opinion Personaly I enjoy it, its much more interesting and challenging than pos/ cap spam, so many choices to be made. Its just another interesting tactical part of the game
Tholarim Amarr Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.10 20:41:00 - [189] Edited by: Tholarim on 10/03/2008 20:40:53 OMG WE CAN'T BEAT BOB. GAMEMECHANICS TO BEAT BOB PLZTHNX!
maralt Minmatar The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.03.10 20:45:00 - [190] Originally by: Spike Spiegle I think it will be interesting to see what happens when BOB finnaly do loose their space. My money is on ccp suddenly desciding that a sov 3 system with a jammer and titans is too much and it coincedently being nerfed... If they do lose their space it will be a perfect example for the nerf not being needed at all.

Local Her0 Minmatar La Mancha Corp	Posted - 2008.03.10 20:51:00 - [191] Edited by: Local Her0 on 10/03/2008 20:51:41 Originally by: Tholarim Edited by: Tholarim on 10/03/2008 20:40:53 OMG WE CAN'T BEAT BOB. GAMEMECHANICS TO BEAT BOB PLZTHNX! OMG CAP. CAPSLOCK KNOWS HOW TO TROLL OBVIOUSLY
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2008.03.10 20:57:00 - [192] Originally by: Hrin Goonswarm deals with and fights under conditions that no other entity in eve has (or will again). We're facing an enemy with 4 titans, cynojammers, and an extensive jumpbridge network. If you remove any one of those factors and things change drastically, but they are all there. Nobody in Eve has fought this kind of war. Why are you idiots surprised that under these circumstances we find unbalanced and unintended game mechanics? How many consecutive DDs does CCP intend? What kind of cynojammer killing fleet should you bring to fight off a hostile fleet, weather the deathstar, tank DDs, and deal with fighters under the omnipresent lag? Time to move to Jita? If you can't stand the heat, go out of the kitchen.
Fofalus III ELEMENTS	Posted - 2008.03.11 03:14:00 - [193] Originally by: Space Harrier Ultimately, the death of alliances should be down to a breaking of the will of it's leadership, and not due to some game mechanic. Quoting this for possible future humor.
Orb Lati Minmatar ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.11 03:14:00 - [194] Whines can be summed up as: "Oh Noes! ... our enemies have a cyno jammer up" "Oh Noes! ... our enemies have Lots of POS guns defending that Cyno Jammer" "Oh Noes! ... our enemies have Titians defending that POS and its Cyno Jammer" "Oh Noes! ... we cant work out how to take their heavily defended space" "I Knowes ... Lets go ***** about it on the forums" "We worship Strength because it is through strength that all other values are made possible"
Junkie Beverage GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 03:32:00 - [195] Originally by: Orb Lati Whines can be summed up as: "Oh Noes! ... our enemies have a cyno jammer up" "Oh Noes! ... our enemies have Lots of POS guns defending that Cyno Jammer" "Oh Noes! ... our enemies have Titians defending that POS and its Cyno Jammer" "Oh Noes! ... we cant work out how to take their heavily defended space" "I Knowes ... Lets go ***** about it on the forums" you are stupid you are anzac correlation
Chomapuraku Templar Republic R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.03.11 03:33:00 - [196] ok... to all those saying cynojammed, multiple-titan-guarded systems are perfectly balanced, how do you propose taking them down? lemme see if i can work out a tactical situation... 1. warp in huge BS fleet to take down cynojammer 2. get entire fleet OMGWTFBBQed by 4 DD blasts, because game mechanics don't allow any subcap to survive 4 of the same type of DDD, much less 4 different ones 3. profit no, that doesn't work... 1. warp in BS fleet in waves 2. each wave gets cut to pieces by the dozens of manned guns at the cynojammer tower 3. profit hmmm... not sure about that one either... 1. take all non-cyno-jammed systems 2. find yourself at one of the above situations, because it doesn't change the fact that all of their station systems (the big isk-makers and transport hubs) still have cyno jammers. 3. profit back here again. how about... 1. warp in cap flee- wait, the system is cyno-jammed. scratch that 2. 3. profit looks like we're at a standstill. the way the current system stands, if you have the isk/resources to acquire 4 titans, you can defend any cyno-jammed system with a number of pilots you can count on one hand. phrased another way, if you have the isk, you can rest on your laurels and not seriously worry about getting attacked. if your alliance makes good use of this one set of game mechanics and doesn't slip up, sov warfare becomes impossible. discuss (without ad hominem attacks. oh wait, this is CAOD....)
Philip Jones Gallente Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.11 03:48:00 - [197] Edited by: Philip Jones on 11/03/2008 03:51:33 The best probable solution would be link the Cynojammer to the POS it is anchored at. 1) Attacking force puts the Cynojammer into incapacitated. 2) Attacking force puts the POS into reinforced. 3) POS in reinforced, triggers Cynojammer into reinforced, where its state means it cannot be locked. 4) Only 1 Cynojammer in a system means Attacking force can use Capitals as much as the Defending force can; as the system is currently not cynojammable while that POS is in reinforced. 5) Attacking force destroys the POS / Defending force defends the POS. Problems: Defenders anchor another Cynojammer at a different POS, after the Reinforced POS with RF Cynojammer is destroyed. [Do reinforced POS allow Cynojammers to be anchored?] If they dont then this is not a problem, as the attacking force should be concentrating efforts to take the system and will be locking down the system. If they allow the defenders the time to setup a new POS with cynojammer, then they should be forced to repeat the effort.
Nlewis GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 04:01:00 - [198] Originally by: Orb Lati Whines can be summed up as: "Oh Noes! ... our enemies have a cyno jammer up" "Oh Noes! ... our enemies have Lots of POS guns defending that Cyno Jammer" "Oh Noes! ... our enemies have Titians defending that POS and its Cyno Jammer" "Oh Noes! ... we cant work out how to take their heavily defended space" "I Knowes ... Lets go ***** about it on the forums" soco posts are always so cute
Celot GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 04:06:00 - [199] hey guys let's add a new module that makes pos warfare take weeks longer than it would normally **** yeah
Shiv Katall Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 04:25:00 - [200] Originally by: Philip Jones Edited by: Philip Jones on 11/03/2008 03:51:33 The best probable solution would be link the Cynojammer to the POS it is anchored at. 1) Attacking force puts the Cynojammer into incapacitated. 2) Attacking force puts the POS into reinforced. 3) POS in reinforced, triggers Cynojammer into reinforced, where its state means it cannot be locked. 4) Only 1 Cynojammer in a system means Attacking force can use Capitals as much as the Defending force can; as the system is currently not cynojammable while that POS is in reinforced. 5) Attacking force destroys the POS / Defending force defends the POS. Problems: Defenders anchor another Cynojammer at a different POS, after the Reinforced POS with RF Cynojammer is destroyed. [Do reinforced POS allow Cynojammers to be anchored?] If they dont then this is not a problem, as the attacking force should be concentrating efforts to take the system and will be locking down the system. If they allow the defenders the time to setup a new POS with cynojammer, then they should be forced to repeat the effort. That is the way it should work. Its fair and balanced for all sides. I also agree with Dianabolic on another thread about titans and I believe other capitals unable to use jump bridges.

Xaldor New Age Solutions New Age Solutions Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.03.11 04:46:00 - [201] The way I see it, the current mechanics allow a very large alliance to hold up in a defensive position and not get wiped out. I do not necessarily see the problem with this, I have no love for BoB and I think they are getting payback for a lot of their past actions but I wouldn't like to see them wiped out, it would be bad for EVE. Will it make it neigh on impossible to wipe BoB from their defensive position? Probably, but they are dug into a small amount of territory. It would be impossible to utilise the jammer mechanic to hold a massive amount of territory so I don't see the problem with it. I think you should be able to take down a jammer pretty quickly with a fleet of cheap vexors with sentry drones you deploy in waves, you lose a crapload of them, big deal. Not so easy getting rid of large swarms of sentry drones.
Civrax GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 05:06:00 - [202] Unlike Cynosural Field Generator, which was a POS extension to a widely used ship module, the Cynosural Field Jammer introduced a brand new game mechanic: one which severely limited the ability to move capital fleets into hostile systems at will. There is no hard cap on the jammer, there is no balance for this jammer. It uses very little grid/cpu, has a large amount of hitpoints and it takes a very long time to take down. Now this isn't a BoB thing. The mentality isn't "oh God BoB's got jammers, lets try to get them nerfed", this is something that needs to be balanced. This is something numerous alliances have faced and most people have been saying this from it's first introduction. As it stands right now defenders, after having their jammer incapacitated, can simply nuke the jammer and then anchor another one and get it back online. Jammers should be a one-shot go type deal. Cynojammers, for the huge boost they give, should come at a huge cost. The ideas presented by the RAZOR fello are a good start and the process works quite well. Suggested Changes to CynoJammers: 1 - Increase their fitting requirements. Right now it's minimal cost to the POS to fit it. This should be a huge power/cpu draw on the tower, fundamentally changing the setup the tower has to have. 2 - A CynoJammer should, in the proximity of a starbase, have greatly increased structure. This forces the defenders to repair the unit, rather than just destroy it (which takes far less time, even with the anchoring/onlining times included) and replace. This might be a bit excessive, but the idea is to force defenders to work to re-jam their system. 3 - 1 CynoJammer Anchored per system (not sure if this is already the case, I believe it is). I like the reinforced idea presented by the RAZOR guy, it prevents the quick destruction and replacement of the jammer. While a lot of the suggestions and arguements in this thread will be political and name-calling, fundamentally CCP needs to change this module to balance it's pro's with some con's. P.S. - 3 titans hugging a cynojammer also has it's problems, but going into this WOULD turn the discussion into a "BoB" thing.
Darkrydar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.11 05:13:00 - [203] Originally by: Local Her0 Edited by: Local Her0 on 10/03/2008 21:16:22 Originally by: Tholarim Edited by: Tholarim on 10/03/2008 20:40:53 OMG WE CAN'T BEAT BOB. GAMEMECHANICS TO BEAT BOB PLZTHNX! OMG CAPT. CAPSLOCK KNOWS HOW TO TROLL OBVIOUSLY Can't you at least troll with a real character? Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
dastommy79 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.11 05:15:00 - [204] hot drop meh? I am broke and need isk to get my Thanatos combat ready against RA. All my peeps out there, please donate what you can to this character. boobs [IMG]http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/
smitor Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.11 05:15:00 - [205] Originally by: Sentinel Eeex Originally by: smitor if you look beyond the tags under every name and just focus on the actual situation you will have the core problem with jammers, pos, deathstars and supercaps right at hand. There is a balance issue when it comes to investing isk. A Defender who invested huge amounts of isk into a) getting a system sov up by placing and mainting pos b) dropping atleast 250-400 bln isk in 4 well fit titans (bpos included) c) dropping another 200-300 bln isk in 10 well fit motherships (bpos included) d) invested a few billion isk in pos fuel e) invested in a station 22 bln isk f) invested in a fleet of 50 dreads and 50 carriers billing total 200 bln isk ? is able to defend with about 200 active ppl a region from 600 ppl trying to disable the cyno jammer flying t2 fitted battleships/logistics. Attacker who... a) wants to attack sov system b) dropped at least >500 bln ISK in X well fit Titans (BPOs included) c) dropped another 400-500 bln into 20 well fit motherships (BPOs included) d) invested a few billion ISK in isotopes to get into defender's systems (and let's add fuel for POSes that attackers are running now) e) didn't invest anything in station, because they want to take it (investing in station gives you **all advantage in defending - POSes and ships do) f) invested in fleet of 100 dreads and 100 carriers billing total of gazillion ISK ...isn't able to actually attack a system, because defender can jumpbridge his whole capital fleet through jumpbridge modules that magically bring capitals (that require a cyno field to jump to) into a system with cynojammer (which prevents cyno fields from being generated). I can imagine a logistics nightmare ("Hey guys, where do we keep Liquid Ozone? Ah, thanks.") involved in jumping capital fleet from J-L to F-T via jumpbridge, for example. Must be horrible. Well or maybe gamemechanics acutally require the attacker to spend a few "hundred bil" in waves of battleships which must die before a jammer goes down, instead of a 1-try roll-in where you simply smack everything down. The whole points you try to make is that a "fortress" setup with cynojammer and titans actually benefits the defender who is usually already in a bad situation due to a) numbers stacked against him and b) not having the initiative. The last thing going for him, the ability to prepare his own turf is what you try to remove. As i stated in my other post ive not seen you come here and cry for gamechanges when you were happily stronting every pos defence into russian primetime to get the maximum out of their tz advantage. Ive not seen you threadnought about "lag" when you rushed Lv's babytitan, ive not seen you make 10 threads to the subject when you annoyed the rise defenders with afk cloakergangs literally locking them out of their own coresystems. Keeping that in mind it seems abit odd you ask for a gamemechanic change as soon as it does suit your opposition and puts you in a hard place. Especially since you are just on try 2-3? to break prolly the best defended and best prepared region in eve. Some other GS poster said this: Originally by:** Cursive Seems right to me... 20 billion in BS' VS 250 billion in Titans, I sure hope the Titans win. and thats where your issue is. You dont want to spend 4-5 times the 20 bln in failed attempts but instead give up after round two and blame the game for it. Seeing that there is at this point of time just 1 single entity which seems to have caused this problem, namely BoB, who are prolly by far the most active, the most organized and one of the richest alliances ingame. This whole argument seems to be as Thol put it "nerf bob so i can win because i dont like to spend x billions in failed attempts". For the first time since the first titan nerf we actually see the defender having an advantage over the sheer numbers of the coalition. Your selfproclaimed strategy "you can win all fights in k/d ratio but we still take stations from you"
smitor Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.11 05:16:00 - [206] Edited by: smitor on 11/03/2008 05:17:11 2nd part: is not working anymore. Seems you actually have to win fights to nail the coffin shut. Especially with your helpers leaving you to do it yourself. This time you actually must bleed and win to achieve your goal. Thats a concept GS will have issues with i guess.
Hrin Minmatar Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 06:25:00 - [207] Originally by: smitor Edited by: smitor on 11/03/2008 05:17:11 2nd part: is not working anymore. Seems you actually have to win fights to nail the coffin shut. Especially with your helpers leaving you to do it yourself. This time you actually must bleed and win to achieve your goal. Thats a concept GS will have issues with i guess. Damn are you dumb. wow. mind blown.
Hrin Minmatar Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 06:31:00 - [208] Originally by: smitor TLDR you're saying that you should buy systems. Victory in Eve should be decided by those with the most isk and SP. This is completely unsurprising coming from an elitist group that have seen superior tactics and logistics beat them across 5 regions. Being in delve is not some fluke; you had 5 regions to turn it around. Now you rely on broken game mechanics to shield you from your conclusion. You talk big words behind your cynojammers and titans.
TWD Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.11 06:42:00 - [209] Originally by: Hrin Originally by: smitor TLDR you're saying that you should buy systems. Victory in Eve should be decided by those with the most isk and SP. This is completely unsurprising coming from an elitist group that have seen superior tactics and logistics beat them across 5 regions. Being in delve is not some fluke; you had 5 regions to turn it around. Now you rely on broken game mechanics to shield you from your conclusion. You talk big words behind your cynojammers and titans. Bringing overwhelming numbers is a superior tactic, I agree. Maybe you need more numbers.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.11 06:45:00 - [210] TWD, your a robot who never sleeps.



Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 11 12 13 .. 13 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.