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Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2008.03.11 06:45:00 - [211] Originally by: Hrin Originally by: smitor TLDR you're saying that you should buy systems. Victory in Eve should be decided by those with the most isk and SP. And you are saying that skills, dedication and good preparation shouldn't count at all. You say that only numbers count. Just throw enough noobs in *****y t1 ship at something and just make a huge enough blob and you win - no matter what. And exactly that attitude is stupid. Skills do matter. Preparation matters. Dedication matters. ISK matters.
Xiong Yoshi Timetravel Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.03.11 07:07:00 - [212] I vote giving them a CPU usage. ------------------------------------------------ There are only two types of ships: those which have blown up; and those which will.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Deadly Addiction Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.03.11 07:41:00 - [213] I say all things involving capitalships and POS's are made of 100% falium c/d?
Hrin Minmatar Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 07:53:00 - [214] Originally by: TWD Originally by: Hrin Originally by: smitor TLDR you're saying that you should buy systems. Victory in Eve should be decided by those with the most isk and SP. This is completely unsurprising coming from an elitist group that have seen superior tactics and logistics beat them across 5 regions. Being in delve is not some fluke; you had 5 regions to turn it around. Now you rely on broken game mechanics to shield you from your conclusion. You talk big words behind your cynojammers and titans. Bringing overwhelming numbers is a superior tactic, I agree. Maybe you need more numbers. Hiding behind broken cyno jammers is a good tactic. Maybe if you do it more you'll get a system back.
Martin VanBuren GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 08:01:00 - [215] Originally by: Hrin Originally by: TWD Originally by: Hrin Originally by: smitor TLDR you're saying that you should buy systems. Victory in Eve should be decided by those with the most isk and SP. This is completely unsurprising coming from an elitist group that have seen superior tactics and logistics beat them across 5 regions. Being in delve is not some fluke; you had 5 regions to turn it around. Now you rely on broken game mechanics to shield you from your conclusion. You talk big words behind your cynojammers and titans. Bringing overwhelming numbers is a superior tactic, I agree. Maybe you need more numbers. Hiding behind broken cyno jammers is a good tactic. Maybe if you do it more you'll get a system back. lol goonies cant even muster enough to take a system with a cyno jammer lol! Attacks system next door to one of their own stations without a cyno jammer Fails after two days Claims victory anyway
Commodore Gauss Caldari C0NTAINMENT	Posted - 2008.03.11 08:09:00 - [216] Originally by: Hrin Hiding behind broken cyno jammers is a good tactic. Maybe if you do it more you'll get a system back. Cyno Jammers aren't broken... they work perfectly fine. Unbalanced? Maybe, maybe not. The fact that that you and your brosefs have run into a wall has clearly initiated some kind of whine protocol within Goonswarm in order to combat any usefulness of legal game mechanic that hampers any of your efforts. The fact that you did attempt multiple systems means your leadership is actually thinking of a workaround, but since that's failed you resort to the much easier "Plan B" which involves going straight to the forums and saying "XXX is broken, and we're not afraid to annoy you by spamming the forums about it". A valid tactic when you're losing momentum.
Post Man Pat And His Black And White Cat	Posted - 2008.03.11 08:12:00 - [217] So, just because you have numbers you think you should be able to take a fortress system off an alliance which, by your own mouths say has been fighting with the same numbers, even though they put in 10x in terms of isk capital on the field more than you guys. No wai? Postman Pat
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.03.11 08:13:00 - [218] Originally by: Gnulpie Originally by: Hrin Originally by: smitor TLDR you're saying that you should buy systems. Victory in Eve should be decided by those with the most isk and SP. And you are saying that skills, dedication and good preparation shouldn't count at all. You say that only numbers count. Just throw enough noobs in *****y t1 ship at something and just make a huge enough blob and you win - no matter what. And exactly that attitude is stupid. Skills do matter. Preparation matters. Dedication matters. ISK matters. Two things. 1. The pure numbers thing still works. If someone brings 600 pilots to a system and camps it for 3 days with those numbers, its theirs. But is that the way it should be? 2. The whole concept of someone defending a system with a cyno-POS and defending MS/Titans while the attacker can't bring capitals requires superior numbers to pull off at least against any kind of semi-capable defender. So blaming an attacker for bringing large numbers is not valid, there is no other way to take such a system from a capable defender.
hmmmmmmmm Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.11 08:20:00 - [219] GOONS tears are so sweet war start goons:omg we cant defend self against bob,pls ccp nerf titan ,pls.pls.,waaaa,kmeee,PLLLLSSSSS CCP:OK goons:omg we cant take OOYZ,pls ccp nerf carriers and ms pls,pls pls,nerf fighters pls,pls,waaaaaa.kmeeewaaa,PLSSSSS CCP:hell ...no goons:omg we cant beat BOB,pls CCP NERF CYNO jem.,nerf titans,pls kmeeee,kmeee,waaaaaa,PLSSSSSSS or we quit our 6000 ac. CCP:hmmmmmmmm
Post Man Pat And His Black And White Cat	Posted - 2008.03.11 08:27:00 - [220] Maybe Goons cannot take down anymore cynojammers because 1) They've lost so many fleet fights they cannot field the required battleship numbers to take down one quickly. Maybe you now realise that you "thought" you had good logistics, but infact were forgetting one very important aspect in that lost ships = more logistics for everyone. On my BoB main i've fought in most major fleet battles and I still have my BS i had from the start of this siege whereas each battle i see goonfleets decimated. Logistics isn't that much of a problem for the average bob member because we actually don't loose that much in terms of ships so we dont need to replace them. Maybe you have extended your lines of supply too long and your FCing/flying is so crap you can't keep a good ratio of the ships you need on the front line to take down jammers? 2) Even when you did take down one of the fortress system's jammer, shortly after your main ally lost a titan and another their MS and now your allies are fragmented which could be the reason you can't take any cyno systems after your attempt on nol. Your allies are unwilling to put their assets on the line when you guys won't either, meanwhile bob is fielding everything they have? Postman Pat

TWD Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.11 08:36:00 - [221] Originally by: Martin VanBuren lol goonies cant even muster enough to take a system with a cyno jammer lol! Attacks system next door to one of their own stations without a cyno jammer Fails after two days Claims victory anyway BoB was attacking a system? How can that be? I thought we were on the verge of losing our space!
Darcuese Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.11 08:54:00 - [222] Edited by: Darcuese on 11/03/2008 08:54:33 CCP, I ask you to: -Remove or extra SP above 35m. ITs just not fair and im to lazzy to play this game for a year or 2 to be able to fit in to something big. -Give t1 stuff some extra bonuses (range, damage, etc,etc). I just cant hastle to train for t2. I have more important things to do in my RL -Give same skills to anyone in EVE so we all can fly whatever there is. Then i would show you how my tactic beat your SP. -Can you please find me a girlfriend for free?. You cant expect me to go out, buying a drink, have a talk or something, buying flowers now and then.....all that crappy anoying stuff....to get in bed with her? I have more important things in my RL then to spend it on seducing. - Can you please buy me a company with 100 employes with 5 year expiriance each? I would show you how all BIG BRANDS will go down under my superior strategy and creativity -While you at it, can you ask GOD himself to give me longer d_ _k. It just ainght fair sometimes. Cant we all just be the same? - And please, why do i need to wait 24 hour for another activation of jump clone. I wanna be bunny. I WANNA BE BUNNY, YOU HEAR? me, myself and I ------>
pershphanie Deadly Addiction Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.03.11 09:26:00 - [223] Edited by: pershphanie on 11/03/2008 09:29:13 Originally by: WowZilla Its not beyond reason that 4 titans with no support at all could defend a cyno jammer from a huge hostile BS fleet. 200 v 4 and the 4 win seem right? If the 4 have more expensive ships than the 200combined, maybe. why do people ***** when all their problems can't be solved by blobbing?
maralt Minmatar The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.03.11 09:42:00 - [224] The reason GOONS are once again screaming for a nerf is because most of the allies they had have gone home and are no longer fighting the war for them. As a single entity GOONS are totally impotent against BOB or any reasonably setup alliance as they rely on others to bring anything of real quality to the fight as in ships and actual ability. The titan+cynojammer issue is exactly the same as the previous ftr drone issue they cried about as instead of actually trying to out think a problem as soon as their blob is slowed or halted they go straight for the forums and scream for a nerf. Not so long ago GOON members were claiming that the cynojammer befitted them more than it did BOB and there was not a whisper on the forums from them about a nerf, but as soon as their allies bail and they hit a wall that needs skill and planning to over come instead of a BLOB spam they are on the forums screaming to CCP to wipe their asses again.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.03.11 10:13:00 - [225] Originally by: pershphanie Edited by: pershphanie on 11/03/2008 09:29:13 Originally by: WowZilla Its not beyond reason that 4 titans with no support at all could defend a cyno jammer from a huge hostile BS fleet. 200 v 4 and the 4 win seem right? If the 4 have more expensive ships than the 200combined, maybe. why do people ***** when all their problems can't be solved by blobbing? What if the 200 want and can bring more expensive ships, but can't because the cynojammer won't let em?
maralt Minmatar The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.03.11 10:21:00 - [226] Edited by: maralt on 11/03/2008 10:23:50 Does anybody actually believe that with all the coalitions members (pre bail) all their titans and cap ships and conventional ships and renewable resources that if they wanted too they could not take BOB's space away from them?. This argument is not about what is possible or not possible or even cyno jammers its about if ppl can be bothered to take the losses that will be required to achieve the goal. And the answer to that has been quite clearly stated by the coalition as no because most of them have buggered off home. And we are left with the GOONS and a few die hard BOB obsessives screaming for a nerf to replace their lost allies as they are afraid to try on their own because they think they will fail.
Laechyd Eldgorn Caldari Karjala Inc. Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.03.11 10:23:00 - [227] Cynojammers also affect other people than goons or bob. They're just annoyingly difficult to keep down because they don't use cpu and defender can use jump bridges. It's even more difficult if your alliance doesn't have 5000 members to cover all timezones so defender can easily rep jammer and stront pos with minimal support.
Post Man Pat And His Black And White Cat	Posted - 2008.03.11 10:25:00 - [228] Edited by: Post on 11/03/2008 10:25:41 Quote: What if the 200 want and can bring more expensive ships, but can't because the cynojammer won't let em? So all goons are flying faction/deep space fitted faction/t2 bs are they? All their inties are doing 20k/ms? Don't think so, there is still alot of room for improvement. The problem is that Goons proclaimed they did not need to win fleet battles to take space from BoB, but now since most of their allies are elsewhere they're just getting raped. Their alliance is loosing billions per day and obviously can't keep up with BoB not only raping their fleets but now they have to contend with all their pos dying. Now goons can't even keep their members that had BS, in BS and that is the problem in taking down the BoB jammers which they had no problem taking down before, they don't have the resources. Sure BoB lost alot more towers than goons in this war so far, but BoB has the resources to do that and BoBs reserves lie much deeper than anyone thinks. Postman Pat
maralt Minmatar The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.03.11 10:34:00 - [229] Edited by: maralt on 11/03/2008 10:35:52 Originally by: Laechyd Eldgorn Cynojammers also affect other people than goons or bob. They're just annoyingly difficult to keep down because they don't use cpu and defender can use jump bridges. It's even more difficult if your alliance doesn't have 5000 members to cover all timezones so defender can easily rep jammer and stront pos with minimal support. Just because you can jump into a system while the cyno is down does not mean you need to attack their and then or jump out after the attack is over. The organization needed to take out a system should be high and if you have just jumped in your capital fleet while the cyno is down then they can log out around a deep safe until the next operation is happening or they can even initially fit cloaks if they wanna stay logged in or wait out a aggro timer before logging. The repping of the cynojammer or the fact it only takes 30 mins to get another activated is not the problem the organization, logistics and planning of the attackers was what cost them the offensive in NOL and continues to do so.
Laechyd Eldgorn Caldari Karjala Inc. Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.03.11 10:39:00 - [230] Originally by: maralt Edited by: maralt on 11/03/2008 10:35:52 Originally by: Laechyd Eldgorn Cynojammers also affect other people than goons or bob. They're just annoyingly difficult to keep down because they don't use cpu and defender can use jump bridges. It's even more difficult if your alliance doesn't have 5000 members to cover all timezones so defender can easily rep jammer and stront pos with minimal support. Just because you can jump into a system while the cyno is down does not mean you need to attack their and then or jump out after the attack is over. The organization needed to take out a system should be high and if you have just jumped in your capital fleet while the cyno is down then they can log out around a deep safe until the next operation is happening or they can even initially fit cloaks if they wanna stay logged in or wait out a aggro timer before logging. The repping of the cynojammer or the fact it only takes 30 mins to get another activated is not the problem the organization, logistics and planning of the attackers was what cost them the offensive in NOL and continues to do so. Hello, dear mr. alt. There is other people than bob and goons playing the game. Are you saying alliance with 200 member should have no chance at all and they should just stay in empire grinding level 4 missions?

WeightedCompanionCube Aperture Science Enrichment Center	Posted - 2008.03.11 10:45:00 - [231] Edited by: WeightedCompanionCube on 11/03/2008 10:45:14 Originally by: maralt The repping of the cynojammer or the fact it only takes 30 mins to get another activated is not the problem the organization, logistics and planning of the attackers was what cost them the offensive in NOL and continues to do so. So when is BoB going to show them how it's done ? With their entire alliance full of experts in organization, logistics and planning concentrated into a few systems it surely must be a piece of cake to retake QY6 now that all the defenders are elsewhere. tick tock
maralt Minmatar The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.03.11 10:46:00 - [232] Originally by: Laechyd Eldgorn Originally by: maralt Originally by: Laechyd Eldgorn Cynojammers also affect other people than goons or bob. They're just annoyingly difficult to keep down because they don't use cpu and defender can use jump bridges. It's even more difficult if your alliance doesn't have 5000 members to cover all timezones so defender can easily rep jammer and stront pos with minimal support. Just because you can jump into a system while the cyno is down does not mean you need to attack their and then or jump out after the attack is over. The organization needed to take out a system should be high and if you have just jumped in your capital fleet while the cyno is down then they can log out around a deep safe until the next operation is happening or they can even initially fit cloaks if they wanna stay logged in or wait out a aggro timer before logging. The repping of the cynojammer or the fact it only takes 30 mins to get another activated is not the problem the organization, logistics and planning of the attackers was what cost them the offensive in NOL and continues to do so. Hello, dear mr. alt. There is other people than bob and goons playing the game. Are you saying alliance with 200 member should have no chance at all and they should just stay in empire grinding level 4 missions? A chance to do what?. With 200 active members in the correct ships and against a similar or acceptably sized force id say with good planning you should be able to win.
Attack Dog Caldari Terran Robotics	Posted - 2008.03.11 10:51:00 - [233] Heres a idea, how bought going for the 1/2 systems at the same time as said system that contect the jumpbridge network to said system you want to take. Then let BOB decide which system they'd rather keep. "Burning bridges" and all that ------sig starts here------ Don't be a noob, stop whinning 4 nerf's 2day
AIchemist Gallente O.W.N. Corp United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.11 10:51:00 - [234] The bob alts in this thread made it worth it to read for lulz.Your sitting in one system for the most part hiding your caps.You still can't post with just your main pilot, so make sure you post with your bob main and then follow it up with your alt\|alts to try and make someone believe you.
pershphanie Deadly Addiction Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.03.11 10:55:00 - [235] Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: pershphanie Edited by: pershphanie on 11/03/2008 09:29:13 Originally by: WowZilla Its not beyond reason that 4 titans with no support at all could defend a cyno jammer from a huge hostile BS fleet. 200 v 4 and the 4 win seem right? If the 4 have more expensive ships than the 200combined, maybe. why do people ***** when all their problems can't be solved by blobbing? What if the 200 want and can bring more expensive ships, but can't because the cynojammer won't let em? All i'm saying is that maybe it's a good thing that any bunch of idiots can't destroy an alliances entire infrastructure just because they have the ability to outblob them. So why do you think blobbing should automatically = win?
maralt Minmatar The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.03.11 10:58:00 - [236] Originally by: AIchemist The bob alts in this thread made it worth it to read for lulz.Your sitting in one system for the most part hiding your caps.You still can't post with just your main pilot, so make sure you post with your bob main and then follow it up with your alt\|alts to try and make someone believe you. Personally and honestly im against anything that removes the need for (in one form or another) skill and tactical superiority either on a individual level, small gang or a coalition level. I support nano and all the other styles of pvp apart from blob spamming and i have never been part of BOB.
WeightedCompanionCube Aperture Science Enrichment Center	Posted - 2008.03.11 10:59:00 - [237] Edited by: WeightedCompanionCube on 11/03/2008 11:01:46 Originally by: maralt Maybe they will go for QY6 and maybe they will take it or fail but im sure if they manage to kill the unkillable (again) you and other will find a reason to disregard it (again). What which is unkillable has BoB killed ? Are they perhaps the Titans that logged with agression before the nerf ? Edit: this has given me the perfect fix for cyno jammers: they must be manned at all times by a player who has to do some manual action to keep them online. That should cut down on the spamming of the things all over the galaxy until very single 0.0 system that can have one has one. More then 50% of conquerable 0.0 is already sov 3 so it should not take very long for the rest to follow.
maralt Minmatar The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.03.11 11:04:00 - [238] Edited by: maralt on 11/03/2008 11:05:03 Originally by: WeightedCompanionCube Originally by: maralt Maybe they will go for QY6 and maybe they will take it or fail but im sure if they manage to kill the unkillable (again) you and other will find a reason to disregard it (again). What which is unkillable has BoB killed ? Are they perhaps the Titans that logged with agression before the nerf ? Thats the puppies bud but just to ask how many other alliances in the game managed form a plan to aggro a titan pre nerf and pop it, if as by your attitude towards both of the kills, it was so easy to plan and execute?.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.03.11 11:06:00 - [239] Originally by: pershphanie Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: pershphanie Edited by: pershphanie on 11/03/2008 09:29:13 Originally by: WowZilla Its not beyond reason that 4 titans with no support at all could defend a cyno jammer from a huge hostile BS fleet. 200 v 4 and the 4 win seem right? If the 4 have more expensive ships than the 200combined, maybe. why do people ***** when all their problems can't be solved by blobbing? What if the 200 want and can bring more expensive ships, but can't because the cynojammer won't let em? All i'm saying is that maybe it's a good thing that any bunch of idiots can't destroy an alliances entire infrastructure just because they have the ability to outblob them. So why do you think blobbing should automatically = win? I think the situation is more complex than whether blobbing should be an automatic win or not. One of my main issues would be that the game promotes gameplay that it cannot handle. I.e. blobbing. If you have a shredder POS (say 20+ medium domi artillery with faction ammo) with a cynojammer and a defending fleet, the attacker must 'blob'. He has no other choices. And when he blobs, he becomes extremely vulnerable to titans, because the lag works in favour of titans whose DD will be hard to avoid when you take more than a minute to actually warp out after you click to warp. Of course there are still ways to win. But they all depend on huge numbers. If Goons could manage a surprise assault, with or without allies, and put 600 people in a system before the BoB fleet got there, they could probably take out the cynojammer and the jumpbridges and then maintain a 48 hour lockdown while all POS get blown up and Sov drops. But it would still be simply a numbers game. And it would not lead to any kind of 'good fights'. Which is my second main issue really, how much fun is this game to play at the territorial level once you're talking about the big conflicts? And how much fun will it be in a year. Personally, I am out of the territorial warfare thing. And I have no intention of going back the way the game works in its current state. But I do want to see the game thrive, and I don't see a future the way its going now. Cynojammers promote big blobs, cynojammers enable easier titan construction, more titans means more boring gameplay for everyone. Its a vicious cycle, and I see it not getting better in any way, shape or form. Regardless of whether BoB wins or loses Delve, or perhaps even starts to claw back territory now most of the Coalition seems otherwise engaged. All you will have is more and more huge ass fleetfights, dominated by lag and who gets to click the DD button at the most opportune moment. Any side who wins this will have won a pyrrhic victory, since I am sure their enemies will probably just abandon 0.0 territorial warfare, if not Eve alltogether. And without enemies, what point is there to even playing.
maralt Minmatar The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.03.11 11:12:00 - [240] Edited by: maralt on 11/03/2008 11:13:32 Originally by: Malachon Draco I think the situation is more complex than whether blobbing should be an automatic win or not. One of my main issues would be that the game promotes gameplay that it cannot handle. I.e. blobbing. If you have a shredder POS (say 20+ medium domi artillery with faction ammo) with a cynojammer and a defending fleet, the attacker must 'blob'. He has no other choices. And when he blobs, he becomes extremely vulnerable to titans, because the lag works in favour of titans whose DD will be hard to avoid when you take more than a minute to actually warp out after you click to warp. Of course there are still ways to win. But they all depend on huge numbers. If Goons could manage a surprise assault, with or without allies, and put 600 people in a system before the BoB fleet got there, they could probably take out the cynojammer and the jumpbridges and then maintain a 48 hour lockdown while all POS get blown up and Sov drops. But it would still be simply a numbers game. And it would not lead to any kind of 'good fights'. Which is my second main issue really, how much fun is this game to play at the territorial level once you're talking about the big conflicts? And how much fun will it be in a year. Personally, I am out of the territorial warfare thing. And I have no intention of going back the way the game works in its current state. But I do want to see the game thrive, and I don't see a future the way its going now. Cynojammers promote big blobs, cynojammers enable easier titan construction, more titans means more boring gameplay for everyone. Its a vicious cycle, and I see it not getting better in any way, shape or form. Regardless of whether BoB wins or loses Delve, or perhaps even starts to claw back territory now most of the Coalition seems otherwise engaged. All you will have is more and more huge ass fleetfights, dominated by lag and who gets to click the DD button at the most opportune moment. Any side who wins this will have won a pyrrhic victory, since I am sure their enemies will probably just abandon 0.0 territorial warfare, if not Eve alltogether. And without enemies, what point is there to even playing. I left 0.0 warfare for the same reason you did a long time ago and i do somewhat agree with some of your thoughts and although i agree that cynojammers promote big blobs i must say that big blobs hardly need any promotion in the first place, but at the moment cyno jammers do or i think will force big blobs to perhaps be used in a more tactical way instead of just being spammed into a system.



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