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AIchemist Gallente O.W.N. Corp United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.11 11:17:00 - [241] Originally by: maralt Originally by: AIchemist The bob alts in this thread made it worth it to read for lulz.Your sitting in one system for the most part hiding your caps.You still can't post with just your main pilot, so make sure you post with your bob main and then follow it up with your alt\|alts to try and make someone believe you. Personally and honestly im against anything that removes the need for (in one form or another) skill and tactical superiority either on a individual level, small gang or a coalition level. I support nano and all the other styles of pvp apart from blob spamming and i have never been part of BOB. That pilot never part of bob? amirite? Yes I am. I'm not talking about broken things or things that work fine.To me it is funny to see both sides whine, and then whine about the other side whining.Bob is jsut doing the best at it, goons come out with thread questioning the current game mechanics.So we get 10+ Bob alternate pilot posts in coad whining\|trolling\|smacking about OMGWTFWITHCYNO!one11!!!!! We can talk about the advantages Bob has had since beta, but lets not bother.Whats funny is to see them all nice and respectable while they get steam rolled.Was nice and peopel started to like some bob.Then one ***** in the armor of your enemy and we get the same old Bob posting crap. Just good for a laugh that you haven't changed even if you been knocked down 20 or so pegs.There is long road to go, and if anyone thinks this is close to over.lulz.
Omega Man The Geddy Foundation	Posted - 2008.03.11 11:17:00 - [242] t1 crap fitted frigates dont bring them down is the issue. - - Happy user of CAOD troll cleaner http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=584345
maralt Minmatar The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.03.11 11:25:00 - [243] Edited by: maralt on 11/03/2008 11:27:58 Originally by: AIchemist Originally by: maralt Originally by: AIchemist The bob alts in this thread made it worth it to read for lulz.Your sitting in one system for the most part hiding your caps.You still can't post with just your main pilot, so make sure you post with your bob main and then follow it up with your alt\|alts to try and make someone believe you. Personally and honestly im against anything that removes the need for (in one form or another) skill and tactical superiority either on a individual level, small gang or a coalition level. I support nano and all the other styles of pvp apart from blob spamming and i have never been part of BOB. That pilot never part of bob? amirite? Yes I am. Myself as an individual and all my pilots/avatars have never been part of BOB in fact my alliance is near and around delve at the moment shooting them (OK and everybody else for that matter) but i am no BOB alt i just do not like nerfs or blobbing.
AIchemist Gallente O.W.N. Corp United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.11 11:38:00 - [244] Originally by: Omega Man t1 crap fitted frigates dont bring them down is the issue. Yeah, because it's not like there was 300-400 man gangs attacking Nol for awhile.Not even half that and your right they were all tech one frigates. Try getting even half a clue and not being yet again a alt pilot so slanted to Bob it IS funny.
jakamo Sounds Of Violence Ghosts Syndicate	Posted - 2008.03.11 11:39:00 - [245] reminds me of my kids crying "its not fair!"
AIchemist Gallente O.W.N. Corp United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.11 11:43:00 - [246] Originally by: jakamo reminds me of my kids crying "its not fair!" Yes, "It's not fair that goons post a relevent thread about the need of cyno jammer changes"crying, I agree.Alot like kids crying, except with alt pilot poasts on coad.
smitor Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.11 11:47:00 - [247] Originally by: Malachon Draco What if the 200 want and can bring more expensive ships, but can't because the cynojammer won't let em? They can do that, systems arent always cyno jammed and there is maybe more to it then just attacking 1 system at a time. 200 or 300 battleships with logistics can quickly kill a cyno jammer if you do it in an odd timezone. The russians have shown that more then once. However the key is that Goons who are advocating changes loudly want to get changed stuff so it doesnt force them to get out of their way. With the right tactics which go beyond "go to one system and press as many bs into the gate until it crashes" you are able to take systems of even a well entrenched enemy. To blame lag however as an argument to either nerf titans or cynojammers however is silly. The titans have the same lag as anyone else has, so does a defending fleet which might simply get toasted aswell. So please lets not construct scenarios which are completely made up and false showing the coalition as the poor victims of imbalanced gamedesign. As in my other post, zergtactics will only bring you that far and goons finally found a speedbump they cant just overwash with nothing in preparation apart from "be there in some ship lulz".
Local Her0 Minmatar La Mancha Corp	Posted - 2008.03.11 11:53:00 - [248] Edited by: Local Her0 on 11/03/2008 11:55:03 got a new sig right there _______________________________________________________________________________ Originally by: smitor 200 or 300 battleships with logistics can quickly kill a cyno jammer
Post Man Pat And His Black And White Cat	Posted - 2008.03.11 11:54:00 - [249] The goon presense in this thread actually isn't as much as it should be for a goon nerf threadnaught. Obviously they don't want the nerf that bad or most of them don't think it should be nerfed as it will probably just mean BoB will steamroll them even faster without alot of their allies now. Postman Pat
Drutt Warsong The Circle STYX.	Posted - 2008.03.11 11:58:00 - [250] Originally by: KIATolon Originally by: Death Mate Originally by: Gnulpie Originally by: KIATolon Xttz had a great idea. Cynojammers should disable all capital modules, so no triage, siege, DD, Portal, fighters, capital reps. That might fix things. Completely wrong way. The only thing to improve cyno jammers would be to move away from their binary state (100% jamming or 0% jamming). The sov system is a step towards that direction. You can gain step by step sov and if you have the patience and the power you can gain sov 4. It is not that you own all and everything completely or have no control at all - it is finer grained. On the other hand, I stil don't see what there is wrong. You can't capture a system with 4+ titans and a cyno jammer inside. So what? Who said that everyone should be able to do everything? If someone digs themselves into a system that deeply and defends it with everything they have and if they can keep up the defence, well, good game then. Why should anyone be able to capture that? In the end it is just a matter of willpower. Who will lose first interest and get tired? The attackers or the defenders? There are soooooooo many ways to make the life of the dug in defenders really miserable. Maybe they give up on their own if they get tired enough. But as long as goons are throwing away fleet after fleet and cheer up bob this way (and of course it is about goons and bob, nothing else) they hardly can expect bob to give up. I guess they have one of the best times ever slaughtering fleet after fleet (for whatever reason). So, brute force fails? And you can't invent other methods instead of running to the forums and whining? shrugs I guess you don't deserve to capture these systems then. I think this is a good post. Actually, you might just be right. Yeah I was thinking that. yes , I agree with this also.
Local Her0 Minmatar La Mancha Corp	Posted - 2008.03.11 11:59:00 - [251] Originally by: Post The goon presense in this thread actually isn't as much as it should be for a goon nerf threadnaught. Obviously they don't want the nerf that bad or most of them don't think it should be nerfed as it will probably just mean BoB will steamroll them even faster without alot of their allies now. Tbh BOB is steamrolling Goons since 5 months now straight, theres nothing left for Goons to do but threadnaught fo a game-nerf because thats realy all they can do at this point, but you figured that out your self yo boya _______________________________________________________________________________ Originally by: smitor 200 or 300 battleships with logistics can quickly kill a cyno jammer
AIchemist Gallente O.W.N. Corp United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.11 12:00:00 - [252] Originally by: smitor Originally by: Malachon Draco What if the 200 want and can bring more expensive ships, but can't because the cynojammer won't let em? They can do that, systems arent always cyno jammed and there is maybe more to it then just attacking 1 system at a time. 200 or 300 battleships with logistics can quickly kill a cyno jammer if you do it in an odd timezone. The russians have shown that more then once. However the key is that Goons who are advocating changes loudly want to get changed stuff so it doesnt force them to get out of their way. With the right tactics which go beyond "go to one system and press as many bs into the gate until it crashes" you are able to take systems of even a well entrenched enemy. To blame lag however as an argument to either nerf titans or cynojammers however is silly. The titans have the same lag as anyone else has, so does a defending fleet which might simply get toasted aswell. So please lets not construct scenarios which are completely made up and false showing the coalition as the poor victims of imbalanced gamedesign. As in my other post, zergtactics will only bring you that far and goons finally found a speedbump they cant just overwash with nothing in preparation apart from "be there in some ship lulz". Hence sov 3 in a-b?This thread was posted by a Bob alt about cyno jammers.Not what bob think can be done in YOUR current situation .That is how you know these threads are posted by bob alt pilots. This WAS a thread about cyno jammers with people chatting back and forth about their mechanics.Have been some nice posts and arguements for both sides of the fence. Then you look at Bob posts and it is all about them.All about their one cyno jammer that has held a system for them. Not much if any constructive posts.Just posts like " omg frigz can take cyno" "lulz bring more""well if you knew what we did""goons fail amirite" in thread not about them. Not sure at what point we started to expect different from Bob, but I guess we shouldn't ever be surprised.It's just like bob to think it is all about them.
Post Man Pat And His Black And White Cat	Posted - 2008.03.11 12:02:00 - [253] Originally by: Local Her0 Originally by: Post The goon presense in this thread actually isn't as much as it should be for a goon nerf threadnaught. Obviously they don't want the nerf that bad or most of them don't think it should be nerfed as it will probably just mean BoB will steamroll them even faster without alot of their allies now. Tbh BOB is steamrolling Goons since 5 months now straight, theres nothing left for Goons to do but threadnaught fo a game-nerf because thats realy all they can do at this point, but you figured that out your self yo boya Can you read or are you just naturally illiterate? Postman Pat
Yorda Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 12:04:00 - [254] Originally by: Local Her0 Originally by: Post The goon presense in this thread actually isn't as much as it should be for a goon nerf threadnaught. Obviously they don't want the nerf that bad or most of them don't think it should be nerfed as it will probably just mean BoB will steamroll them even faster without alot of their allies now. Tbh BOB is steamrolling Goons since 5 months now straight, theres nothing left for Goons to do but threadnaught fo a game-nerf because thats realy all they can do at this point, but you figured that out your self yo boya Agreed. Originally by: nlewis jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were
Local Her0 Minmatar La Mancha Corp	Posted - 2008.03.11 12:06:00 - [255] Originally by: Post Originally by: Local Her0 Originally by: Post The goon presense in this thread actually isn't as much as it should be for a goon nerf threadnaught. Obviously they don't want the nerf that bad or most of them don't think it should be nerfed as it will probably just mean BoB will steamroll them even faster without alot of their allies now. Tbh BOB is steamrolling Goons since 5 months now straight, theres nothing left for Goons to do but threadnaught fo a game-nerf because thats realy all they can do at this point, but you figured that out your self yo boya Can you read or are you just naturally illiterate? Well and there i thought we agree :( _______________________________________________________________________________ Originally by: smitor 200 or 300 battleships with logistics can quickly kill a cyno jammer
AIchemist Gallente O.W.N. Corp United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.11 12:06:00 - [256] Originally by: Local Her0 Originally by: Post The goon presense in this thread actually isn't as much as it should be for a goon nerf threadnaught. Obviously they don't want the nerf that bad or most of them don't think it should be nerfed as it will probably just mean BoB will steamroll them even faster without alot of their allies now. Tbh BOB is steamrolling Goons since 5 months now straight, theres nothing left for Goons to do but threadnaught fo a game-nerf because thats realy all they can do at this point, but you figured that out your self yo boya Steam rolling them right into 4-5 regions?Steam rolling 100's of towers they lost? Can I have just one hit of what your smoking?just one? Ok, maybe like a baby hit.
smitor Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.11 12:07:00 - [257] Originally by: AIchemist Originally by: Local Her0 Originally by: Post The goon presense in this thread actually isn't as much as it should be for a goon nerf threadnaught. Obviously they don't want the nerf that bad or most of them don't think it should be nerfed as it will probably just mean BoB will steamroll them even faster without alot of their allies now. Tbh BOB is steamrolling Goons since 5 months now straight, theres nothing left for Goons to do but threadnaught fo a game-nerf because thats realy all they can do at this point, but you figured that out your self yo boya Steam rolling them right into 4-5 regions?Steam rolling 100's of towers they lost? Can I have just one hit of what your smoking?just one? Ok, maybe like a baby hit. lol you got trolled by your own side there. I guess he forgot the /irony tags.
WeightedCompanionCube Aperture Science Enrichment Center	Posted - 2008.03.11 12:12:00 - [258] Originally by: maralt Thats the puppies bud but just to ask how many other alliances in the game managed form a plan to aggro a titan pre nerf and pop it, if as by your attitude towards both of the kills, it was so easy to plan and execute?. If all the F-T POSes run out of fuel and all the J-L POSes are offlined by a spy then the systems would fall but the game mechanics behind them would still be the same. And these mechanics are what are being discussed here, not some events from the time when BoB was doing anything more then not losing space.
Post Man Pat And His Black And White Cat	Posted - 2008.03.11 12:13:00 - [259] I agree with everything in this thread, including myself, or not, whatever. Postman Pat
AIchemist Gallente O.W.N. Corp United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.11 12:14:00 - [260] Originally by: smitor Originally by: AIchemist Originally by: Local Her0 Originally by: Post The goon presense in this thread actually isn't as much as it should be for a goon nerf threadnaught. Obviously they don't want the nerf that bad or most of them don't think it should be nerfed as it will probably just mean BoB will steamroll them even faster without alot of their allies now. Tbh BOB is steamrolling Goons since 5 months now straight, theres nothing left for Goons to do but threadnaught fo a game-nerf because thats realy all they can do at this point, but you figured that out your self yo boya Steam rolling them right into 4-5 regions?Steam rolling 100's of towers they lost? Can I have just one hit of what your smoking?just one? Ok, maybe like a baby hit. lol you got trolled by your own side there. I guess he forgot the /irony tags. I have no "side" in this war.I'm negative to my office work so I post.
smitor Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.11 12:30:00 - [261] Edited by: smitor on 11/03/2008 12:31:07 someone else suggested a subcapital ship. Thats something alongside the changes to jammers and jumpbridges i proposed i would love to see. Some "subcapital" ship like the freighter which requires skills between bs and dread, cant use a jumpdrive, can siege but has only 1 gun / launcher and costs prolly half of what a dread costs. They would be the first wave of an attack. Due to their higher hp immune to alpha strike DD's, still be touchable by pos guns (below dread active tank), not remoterepairable due to siegemode (so a pricetag is applied to take down a manned tower) and weak ecm resists so a fleet must actually support them in combination with the loved agility of a whale every capship in eve features. This would imo improve the situation by giving attackers the ability to field a medicore and more exspensive solution until they manage to take the jammer down while still giving the defender an upperhand if he is organized and able to repell the attackers combined forces.
Tobruk Black Omega Security	Posted - 2008.03.11 12:32:00 - [262] I don't think cyno jammers are broken i think that the system limit is the issue. The cyno jammer could be taken with BS vs Titan and 40 medium guns and carriers and support fleet IF the system had no limit. ---------------------------------------------- Sig removed. Elmo Pug removed my sig because he hates me
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.03.11 12:37:00 - [263] Originally by: smitor Edited by: smitor on 11/03/2008 12:31:07 someone else suggested a subcapital ship. Thats something alongside the changes to jammers and jumpbridges i proposed i would love to see. Some "subcapital" ship like the freighter which requires skills between bs and dread, cant use a jumpdrive, can siege but has only 1 gun / launcher and costs prolly half of what a dread costs. They would be the first wave of an attack. Due to their higher hp immune to alpha strike DD's, still be touchable by pos guns (below dread active tank), not remoterepairable due to siegemode (so a pricetag is applied to take down a manned tower) and weak ecm resists so a fleet must actually support them in combination with the loved agility of a whale every capship in eve features. This would imo improve the situation by giving attackers the ability to field a medicore and more exspensive solution until they manage to take the jammer down while still giving the defender an upperhand if he is organized and able to repell the attackers combined forces. That ship would have barely the DPS of 2 BS, not really a solution. Blobbing is more viable than a ship with all the limitations you suggest.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.03.11 12:38:00 - [264] Originally by: Tobruk I don't think cyno jammers are broken i think that the system limit is the issue. The cyno jammer could be taken with BS vs Titan and 40 medium guns and carriers and support fleet IF the system had no limit. Of course, but changing either titans or cynojammers is a lot more viable than upping the systemlimit. CCP can easily change titans and/or cynojammers, but so far all attempts at increasing the system limit to the extent that would be needed have failed miserably.
AIchemist Gallente O.W.N. Corp United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.11 12:40:00 - [265] Originally by: Tobruk I don't think cyno jammers are broken i think that the system limit is the issue. The cyno jammer could be taken with BS vs Titan and 40 medium guns and carriers and support fleet IF the system had no limit. Then I would have to question the shear lag.Sadly we used to complain about the lag we got when it was 500-600 people slugging it out.From my recent experience in game, it's takes about 200 pilots + a MS or carrier or two to lock\|lag nearly everone up. Try adding anything other super caps or seige and well, in my personal expereince not payable.I use a nice PC, so not that problem.I guess maybe I have settings wrong.Recent experinces in eve seems it can't handle even half of what it could in fleet battles a year or so ago.It seems to almost get worse. We can however, rest in peace knowing some lvl 4 mission runner is flying in a pimped out looking megathron.These new ship skins rule the sckool!
AIchemist Gallente O.W.N. Corp United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.11 12:52:00 - [266] Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: smitor Edited by: smitor on 11/03/2008 12:31:07 someone else suggested a subcapital ship. Thats something alongside the changes to jammers and jumpbridges i proposed i would love to see. Some "subcapital" ship like the freighter which requires skills between bs and dread, cant use a jumpdrive, can siege but has only 1 gun / launcher and costs prolly half of what a dread costs. They would be the first wave of an attack. Due to their higher hp immune to alpha strike DD's, still be touchable by pos guns (below dread active tank), not remoterepairable due to siegemode (so a pricetag is applied to take down a manned tower) and weak ecm resists so a fleet must actually support them in combination with the loved agility of a whale every capship in eve features. This would imo improve the situation by giving attackers the ability to field a medicore and more exspensive solution until they manage to take the jammer down while still giving the defender an upperhand if he is organized and able to repell the attackers combined forces. That ship would have barely the DPS of 2 BS, not really a solution. Blobbing is more viable than a ship with all the limitations you suggest. Indeed, the builds times, isk, skilling and thats just a small part of why this would be wrong to do. Then there is the small issues of these type of ships having half hit points , but seging and then having the dps of wet paper towel. What I do respect is the post from bob acknowledging the problem.There is one,this is only one post from bob with level headed thinking.There is problem and in some way needs to be fixed. Even with level headed posts with reasonable thoughts from bob on this subject.I think that implamenting a totally new ship class and all the stuff that comes with them is not realistic.Compared to tweeking ships\|mods that are already in game and coded. I don't know what needs to be done, but when both sides are serious about the problem they recognize it.I hate nerfs in eve.I rather be flying around in my dual MWD ruptures tbh.So what NEEDS to be done is where I lack content.
Arthur Miller GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 12:54:00 - [267] Goons need to stop crying about the one module they can't lag offline. To be honest without their allies they have no chance of ever destroying another cyno jammer again. Once they realized they couldn't throw hundreds of T1 frigates at a jammer and destroy it they immediately started petition spamming CCP.
Iasius The Fated Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.03.11 13:33:00 - [268] It always seems that lag is the nerfbat that pwns all. If lag was not an issue then perhaps the coaltion would use about 5 jump bridges to GLA sneak attack 2000 ships into BOB fortress systems. BOB as ever are utillising the current set game mechanics to their advantage in this situation. The coalition are willing to throw everything at BOB if there was a tangible chance of success but at the moment its not possible. . Full Spectrum Mercenary
maralt Minmatar The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.03.11 13:43:00 - [269] Originally by: Iasius It always seems that lag is the nerfbat that pwns all. If lag was not an issue then perhaps the coaltion would use about 5 jump bridges to GLA sneak attack 2000 ships into BOB fortress systems. BOB as ever are utillising the current set game mechanics to their advantage in this situation. The coalition are willing to throw everything at BOB if there was a tangible chance of success but at the moment its not possible. I think there is a good chance of success considering how many ppl are or were involved in the coalition but they do not wish to take the losses involved in such a operation just to take space they will never use. Those who are still obsessed about taking all of BOBS space how ever are now screaming for a nerf because its easier that taking the losses themselves.
Post Man Pat And His Black And White Cat	Posted - 2008.03.11 13:44:00 - [270] Originally by: Arthur Miller Goons need to stop crying about the one module they can't lag offline. To be honest without their allies they have no chance of ever destroying another cyno jammer again. Once they realized they couldn't throw hundreds of T1 frigates at a jammer and destroy it they immediately started petition spamming CCP. Exactly. Postman Pat

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